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Episode 4: The Apostles, Survival Stories and Solicited Advice · Looking Into

0:14
Do not have strong feelings about Mondays?
0:16
Like do you have strong opinions about Mondays in general?
0:18
Well here's the thing, my days off air quotes listeners big air
0:24
quotes. My days off are Sunday and
0:26
Monday, so Monday is more like my Sunday and Sunday is more
0:31
like my Saturday so I love Mondays.
0:34
All right, well, you and I are already in a fight then, because
0:39
I gosh, Monday was so dumb. It started with my daughter
0:45
forgot her lunch. And I have a pretty strict rule
0:49
in our house that like, if you aren't responsible for your
0:50
stuff, you suffer the natural consequences.
0:52
You forgot. Hello.
0:53
Figure it out. But I have some like cosmic
0:58
scales to balance out right now because I am not the most fun
1:01
mom to have around at this moment.
1:05
So I was like, I'm going to bring her her lunch.
1:07
I'll be late to work. I'll swing by the elementary
1:09
school. I'll bring her her lunch.
1:11
So I March in and I'm like, Corwin, your lunch.
1:15
And she was like, mom, I'm doing school lunch today.
1:17
So it was her lunch from Friday that she hadn't unpacked that
1:22
she had left in the hallway. So instead I was like, oh, so
1:27
I'm breaking my responsibility rules to try to do this nice
1:31
thing only to face the reality that we're basically sewer rats
1:34
who just hoard shit all the time.
1:36
Then I was like. Before. 730 had even hit and I
1:40
was like this is so dumb day. Oh my goodness.
1:44
I love that day. It was a dumb dumb day but but
1:49
you're it. Just continued.
1:50
Did it just continue from there? Oh, it on it like derailed.
1:55
It was such a situation, but it's a school.
2:00
It was the first day of a new term and it's May.
2:03
It's like there were a lot of factors that contributed to this
2:06
being a complete dumpster fire of a day.
2:08
So. Does school still stop in June?
2:12
Yeah. Or how does that work?
2:14
Well, we're on an interesting schedule in my building for lots
2:18
of reasons, but it's kind of like there's two big academic
2:23
terms. So there's like a 14 week
2:24
semester and then we do a four week like an elective term and
2:29
then another 14 week semester and then we end on like an
2:33
elective term. So if kids have not passed their
2:37
classes, they need a little bit more time to squeak to passing.
2:41
It's an opportunity for them to like do credit recovery or to do
2:44
some intervention support work. But it's, I don't want to talk
2:48
about work right now. I'm done.
2:48
I'm done talking about it. Yes, it works, it's functioning,
2:51
it makes sense, but fuck it all and we're done.
2:53
OK, well. Yeah, my eyes glazed over.
2:58
Riveting. Yeah, not because of your work,
3:02
which is very important as an educator, I have nothing but
3:07
love and respect. But as we know, as our listeners
3:10
understand and the lore of two of these podcast hosts, this one
3:15
in particular, one of us did not graduate high school and has no
3:19
regrets about that. So.
3:23
OK. So you don't need me to be
3:24
talking about the structure of like academic terms and elective
3:29
and enrichment opportunity. We're just, we don't need to do
3:31
that. Well, no, it's not that I love
3:34
to hear about it. I just know that my eyes begin
3:36
to glaze over because I'm like, I don't know anything about
3:39
that. I dropped out of school because
3:40
of this. So you don't love to hear about
3:43
it, but you love me so you'll humor me?
3:44
Oh my gosh, we should probably actually introduce that pod.
3:47
You are the best part of my Monday.
3:48
So yes, here we are together. Welcome to Looking into This is
3:55
our favorite podcast. Amen.
3:57
Yeah, it's the place where we talk about pop culture and the
4:01
place, the spaces where pop culture interacts with and
4:04
overlaps with the lived human experience.
4:06
We're very interested in the things that interest us so.
4:08
Yes. And, you know, because we're
4:10
interested and we like to be interested.
4:13
Yes. Oh, that's a good way to be as a
4:16
human, to be an interesting human who's also interested in
4:19
other people. Hello.
4:21
Yeah. Love it.
4:22
Love it. Oh, it's so good.
4:24
Look at us. Well, I'm Heidi, so in case you
4:26
didn't know, Caleb. Yeah, there we go.
4:29
We'll, we'll iron out that that flow there, no.
4:32
We won't. I was just going to say we like
4:34
it rough. And then I was like, that
4:35
doesn't work. But I said it.
4:37
I said it. I do.
4:38
I happen to like it rough. Oh, good golly, Caleb, what have
4:47
you been looking into this last? I'm sorry, I can't.
4:52
Well, it's a perfect segue. I've been looking into the
4:55
apostles of Christ. You told me ahead of time you
5:03
were going to tell me about that, and I totally forgot.
5:05
And that's just oh, God bless. OK, let's go.
5:09
OK. Are you ready for this, Heidi?
5:11
Because this is going to be kind of a I'm taking us on a little
5:14
bit of a journey. I'm not and I'm looking for a
5:16
hair tie so I can put my hair up because this feels like pushing
5:19
up your sleeves, like starting like one of those moments where
5:22
I want to be ready and I'm just I'll equipped.
5:25
Because I have even done a little bit of a little bit of
5:29
research. Oh my gosh.
5:32
Today I actually have looked into this lightly.
5:36
It's a light. It's a light looking into.
5:38
It OK what does this have to do with pop culture friend?
5:41
Well, I went and saw Jesus Christ Superstar last night at
5:47
the 5th Ave. Theatre in Seattle.
5:50
I've seen two shows at 5th Ave. over the last like 15 that I've
5:55
lived in Seattle. That's a good track record,
5:58
Caleb. Stellar.
6:02
And so the first one I saw was The Hunchback of Notre Dame.
6:06
It was fun and then. Also a very religious show.
6:13
Lots of religious undertones in that one.
6:15
There are I love also I love that movie.
6:17
The the animated 1. I don't know if there's a non
6:20
animated. I don't want to see that though.
6:22
OK, yeah, but the animated one, incredible.
6:27
But opening song is one of it's like 1 of Disney's best, like
6:31
best hits of all time. Obviously the whole soundtrack.
6:34
Yeah. Oh, baby.
6:35
The bells. The bells.
6:37
The bells bells, bells bells bells up I'm.
6:43
Not gonna say that is good. It's so good, Yes.
6:46
So I went on a date night with dearest Matthew and we went and
6:52
we got dumplings, which were delicious.
6:55
We do love to go and get dumplings.
6:57
And then we went to 5th Ave. Great or Jesus Christ Superstar,
7:01
which we had neither of us had seen before.
7:03
Matthew hates musicals by the way.
7:05
Just did Not a fan of a musical It's.
7:07
His only flaw? OK.
7:09
Well, he has a couple, but we won't talk about those.
7:14
But I love musicals and this particular musical by Andrew
7:20
Lloyd Webber or written or designed or something like that
7:24
by. Andrew.
7:25
Andrew Lloyd Bradbert, he did, he did things on there, but he
7:28
also did things on Evita, which is like my all time, one of my
7:33
all time favorite cinematic experiences.
7:36
I haven't seen it on the stage, but I don't care to see it on
7:38
the stage because I've seen Madonna do Evita.
7:42
So that's really what matters here.
7:44
OK, Brandon's coming in with the hair tie.
7:46
I'm ready to talk about apostles, just so we know.
7:48
So keep. Obsessed, obsessed.
7:50
Hi Brandon. Shout out to Brandon.
7:53
OK, I'm watching loading. Keep going.
7:55
Thank you for talking. Did you text him while I was
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talking? Of course I did.
7:59
That's I'm obsessed. I couldn't find my hair tie.
8:02
I was like hell, this is an emergency.
8:04
All right? Now.
8:07
Good. OK.
8:08
OK, All right. So I've stalled long enough.
8:09
Your hair is up. We're ready to go.
8:12
You didn't even know you were stalling.
8:13
I didn't know. OK, Jesus Christ Superstar.
8:18
So my friend is in it. He plays the role of Simon, and
8:23
that's what brought me to the show.
8:25
OK, yes, as I was. What have you seen?
8:29
Jesus Christ Superstar? No, you know what I I've seen
8:33
Godspell, which is another similar content, but you know,
8:37
maybe I just usually went straight to the source.
8:39
I grew up in church, so we don't.
8:41
You go to church. Yeah.
8:43
Yeah. And that's why this is so
8:44
perfect to talk to you about. OK?
8:47
As I was there in the moment experiencing the rock opera of
8:56
Jesus Christ Superstar, I couldn't help but wonder who are
9:03
these apostles? Like who are the human beings
9:07
that are hanging out with Jesus Christ as like as an archetype,
9:16
right, like as a, as a icon that Jesus is, there are these other
9:23
icons around him that are very important and like known in our
9:29
like pop culture? Is it pop culture?
9:32
If it's the Bible, it's a little pipe.
9:35
I'm just, I'm just holding on. I'm just letting you cook on
9:38
this. OK, cool.
9:39
So I'm just curious what happens after because I there it's kind
9:44
of set in a in a scene of like it's a little dystopian or just
9:49
the 80s. So it's like it's kind of in the
9:52
in the middle there, but it's set in a scene that makes me
9:57
think of them as maybe more people than just like words on a
10:00
page and in the Bible, right, Because, you know, context.
10:06
I also grew up in church. And so like, it's not that I'm
10:08
unaware of these characters that I haven't read and studied and
10:12
and heard all the stories and could quote the scriptures and
10:15
whatever, but I'm just like, I've never really thought of
10:18
them as people. I've just thought of them as
10:24
yeah, yeah. Characters in a story.
10:26
Yeah. So anyway, all of this to say,
10:30
I'm not good at being concise, and that's OK All of this to
10:34
say, I'm curious what happened to them afterward?
10:38
What's the deal? I know that a couple of them
10:41
might have written some books. And then also.
10:46
Well, I'll get to the next question that I have after we
10:50
talk a little bit about what's the what's the T after the
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crucifixion? Who who are these people?
10:56
OK, tell me the story, Heidi. Oh.
10:59
My gosh, tell me the story. Tell me what's happening.
11:03
All right? My church history is not that
11:05
strong. I'm curious, though.
11:07
You said that you had done some of your own research, so I'm
11:10
assuming there was more to like. You've looked into this beyond
11:14
just your wonderings while you were like, sitting in the
11:17
audience at this show. So tell me what you've learned.
11:21
So very specifically because here's here's the nut to the
11:25
story. Oh, my gosh.
11:31
OK. Oh, he is settling in.
11:32
I'm so glad I put my hair up. I don't know what this is.
11:35
What's about to happen. Listeners, just hang with us.
11:38
Who are the gay Apostles? Caleb, what did you find out?
11:46
OK, on immediate reaction, I need to know Heidi, who do you
11:50
think now statistically, statistically about 10% of the
11:55
population is gay like and and we can.
12:00
Break down same sex attraction. Yeah, yeah.
12:03
And that's really the better. It's somewhere on the LGBTQ
12:06
spectrum, somewhere in there non hetero, right?
12:09
So about 10% of the global population is somewhere on the
12:14
spectrum. That's not at like 100%
12:16
heterosexual. I personally believe that that
12:19
is a way too low number, but that's OK.
12:23
That's just my personal belief and I'm not a statistician,
12:30
right? So statistically, that's a one
12:34
in 10, right? So we got 12 here and then and
12:40
we got 12. So of those 12, there's probably
12:45
one or two that are maybe not only heterosexual.
12:50
So if we were to pick one or two of the 12, is there anyone
12:55
jumping out to you that you would think maybe?
13:01
Save. Space.
13:05
My, my first thought is that the way that we define sexuality is
13:11
a very, very modern concept and the way, so anytime we're
13:17
talking about sexuality in the Bible, there's so many
13:19
misconceptions. And so my immediate response,
13:21
I'm not going to humor you with this.
13:26
I don't I don't know that you could even apply labels like
13:30
what we use today, 2 characters from the ancient world.
13:35
So there's a lot of passage or not a lot.
13:38
There's a lot of discourse around passages in the Bible
13:41
that are commonly referred to as the quote clobber passages that
13:44
are used to clobber or just like strike out against anybody who's
13:49
not hetero. And the word homosexuality
13:52
didn't even exist in the Bible until 1946.
13:54
And it's by many theologians considered to be a
13:57
mistranslation that the word that was actually being
14:00
translated had much more to do with power dynamics and coercive
14:06
and non consensual sex between two people rather than like a
14:10
monogamous homosexual relationship was not something
14:13
that was even conceptualized back in the ancient world.
14:16
So I don't even know how to address that because I
14:19
immediately run into a wall of theological thought and
14:22
commentary and biblical translation.
14:25
And I get into the weeds on that one.
14:27
But it was John so. I love that.
14:34
I love. That and here's why.
14:36
Do you have an opinion or you're just asking?
14:38
Me. I do, I do, I have, I have an
14:40
opinion. Do you want me to tell you mine
14:42
and then we can talk about them? No, I want to tell you why John
14:45
is the one that jumps out to me first.
14:46
Got it. If so, yes, the disciples and
14:51
apostles, they definitely went on to do lots of things.
14:54
Most of them died, Most of them were crucified.
14:56
Well, they're all died but were persecuted and then killed for
15:01
their faith and their work to expand the the message of Christ
15:09
through the known world at that point in time.
15:10
Peter famously was crucified upside down because he said he
15:14
didn't deserve to be killed in the same way as his, as is Lord.
15:17
You're nodding your head. You know these stories when you
15:20
read the gospels. There's 4 canonical gospels,
15:22
Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and they're all written by
15:25
different authors and they're written for different audiences.
15:28
John's book takes a completely different perspective on the
15:32
person of Christ, whereas Matthew, Mark and Luke are much
15:35
more narratives of like events of his life though I didn't
15:38
don't know when this became a theological podcast but.
15:41
I'm loving this by the way. I'm obsessed.
15:44
Unpacking canonical scripture to explain why I think John might
15:48
be the one that. Yeah, please.
15:51
Thank you. John is frequently referred to
15:53
as like the disciple that Jesus loved, like he's painted in a
15:56
different light. He the way that he speaks, his
15:59
Gospel has a completely different voice.
16:00
It looks much more at like the spiritual aspect of Christ that
16:05
the IT centers on the love of Jesus.
16:08
And so I just feel like out of all the disciples, John seems to
16:16
be the one who was most in touch with his feelings and his
16:22
awareness and emotional awareness.
16:23
And my experience in this life is that people who identify as
16:26
outside of the mainstream norm tend to have a better sense of
16:29
who they are and to be more deeply aligned with, you know,
16:33
their internal movements. And so that would be my thought
16:36
as to why John jumps out to me as the one who might be.
16:42
I can't even give it. I can't give them a definition
16:45
because our modern terms of sexuality do not apply to the
16:47
ancient world. I agree with that.
16:49
I agree with that. And I think just to segue
16:51
quickly about the modern terms, I think that the modern terms
16:55
are, are so reductive of what the actual like we're experience
17:00
is to be like gay or straight or bi or, you know, whatever.
17:05
I think that they're valuable in today's society and culture
17:10
because we've, we've found a way to make them valuable and to
17:13
give our like as queer people, we've found a way to give
17:15
ourselves labels that help us hold on to an identity and
17:22
empower us. But they've very much been used
17:25
to harm us as a community, as a people.
17:28
And it is modern. I think it's, it's patriarchal
17:33
and it is modern in the sense of like in the last like few 100
17:36
years, because over thousands of years queer people have existed
17:40
for as long as there have been people, queer people have
17:42
existed and we have loved powerfully and, and just as you
17:48
know, beautifully as people who are like heterosexual, right?
17:54
Like we just we are. Trying to say anyway, we're
18:06
powerful beings full of love the same way that anybody else is
18:09
and we always have been. So the the modern labels, I
18:13
don't think matter. And I think what you're speaking
18:16
to with John, I think that that's really beautiful.
18:19
And I think you're right that like where people find ourselves
18:25
maybe differently in touch with our emotional side and we we are
18:30
capture the divine feminine as well as the divine masculine in
18:38
ways that not everyone, you know, not everyone else will do.
18:44
So you get to see different perspectives.
18:45
And I think that's really powerful and interesting.
18:48
And I also think John was the one, but there's a runner up.
18:56
And I think that there's something right.
19:00
Just I'm going to pause because I can't tell if we're losing
19:02
Internet. No, I'm here.
19:04
I'm just listening. I'm very focused.
19:07
You're here. OK, cool.
19:07
I just it was starting to get choppy so OK, great.
19:14
So the there's a runner up. And in the same way that I think
19:19
that John was very, very like mystical and he talked about
19:27
like the love of Jesus and, and all of the, the being, the light
19:33
in the heart of God and, and all of the ways that he described
19:37
who Jesus was as like a divine being, but also someone that he
19:43
loved so deeply. He also or he described that
19:49
where like you were saying, the other gospels were more like the
19:52
the Acts and the works of they. Focus more on the humanity where
19:56
he focuses more on the divinity. Yeah, yeah.
20:01
So the runner up for me is Thomas.
20:06
And because Thomas was a bit of a rebel and Thomas was known
20:12
where where John was known as like the beloved Thomas was the
20:17
the doubtful, the doubting Thomas and Thomas just felt like
20:24
he was on the outskirts on the outside of it all.
20:28
When Jesus was resurrected, he refused to believe of the second
20:36
hand. And he said that he had to
20:38
literally go, you know, go and feel and touch and see.
20:42
And that's seen as doubt. But I could also see, you know,
20:52
from like you need to get your hands on it, right?
20:57
Like and, and I don't know, I think, and I don't mean that in
21:03
like a sexual way, but I think. That like, please clarify.
21:05
He's like, you've got to touch that slice on your torso where
21:09
the Roman. But listen, was he fine or was
21:11
he fine? I mean, that's it.
21:15
I. Mean, actually, canonically,
21:16
there's nothing about his physical appearance that would
21:18
have drawn men men to him, is what it says.
21:20
So actually the Canon of Jesus is he's not a he's not hot.
21:28
That maybe that was written by like Matthew or something,
21:32
because I don't think John said that because it seems like he
21:38
drew people to him, right? So I don't know.
21:43
But yeah, I mean, his works and all of that.
21:46
I think, I think Jonathan Thomas is my runner up.
21:50
John was my my for sure. So that, and here's the thing, I
21:55
mean, ultimately, regardless of what the current evangelical
22:01
Christian Church, which tends to be the loudest voice in our
22:04
specific culture right now about who Jesus was and what he did,
22:08
when you look at the person of Christ, everything he did was
22:13
about removing social barriers and upsetting power structures
22:17
and reaching out to and bringing in the vulnerable and the
22:22
marginalized. And so with that logic and how
22:25
he walked on this earth by the people he chose to spend time
22:29
with, it is logical to assume that he would not surround
22:33
himself with people that represent the the normative
22:37
powers of the day. And so by that logic, it totally
22:41
makes sense that there would be quite a crew supporting
22:46
Halloween and loving this man that he would bring close into
22:50
his inner circle because he is somebody who, you know,
22:54
championed women. And I will fight anybody who
22:59
says otherwise. We can talk about and outsiders.
23:02
And yeah, so he came to reach and and champion and bring in
23:09
the marginalized and the vulnerable and in in.
23:14
So regardless of how any of the disciples or apostles identified
23:20
and who they were drawn to, I am confident in saying that they
23:26
would they would have been left and would have had a place at
23:30
his table and at the right side, at his right side, at his right
23:33
hand to walk alongside him and been welcomed in to the story of
23:37
love that the heel of doubt on this earth.
23:42
Yeah. So that's that on that.
23:44
I love that, I love that. And I, you know, as someone who
23:48
is currently forming A cult, A cult, I, I'm just, you know,
23:55
really taking some notes and, and diving in and just exploring
24:01
what I need to explore. And having just recently watched
24:05
Jesus Christ Superstar and found out that John and Thomas were
24:09
the gay apostles, I ready to rock in a whole new way.
24:16
Must have his notes say. Must have inner circle of
24:21
varying sexualities that are all musically talented and ready to
24:26
break out in song. And another, what will be on the
24:30
list of things that is important to know is where there is a
24:33
whore, there is a homosexual and he is looking out for her.
24:38
And so God bless Mary. I love her, I've always loved
24:42
her. And I know that she's kept some
24:45
gays around, so that's for sure, yes.
24:52
I love you so much. Wow.
24:54
OK, I. OK, so that's what I've been
24:57
looking into. You've been.
24:58
Looking into good golly. OK, well, I love that.
25:01
Thank you so much for sharing. I'm a pivot.
25:04
Thank you. For having me, yes.
25:06
Every week, babe. Every week.
25:08
OK, I read an actual book this week.
25:12
Oh yeah. OK, tell me about it, I need to
25:15
know. I mean I read like 5 or 6 books,
25:18
but I read like an actual physical book with pages.
25:23
You read 5 or 6 books? This.
25:24
Week, baby, it's the end of the school year.
25:27
I'm disassociating real hard. That is my coping strategy.
25:30
Yeah. I read like 2 yesterday.
25:31
I don't know what to tell you. Like, yes, but I read an actual
25:35
book. That's the highlight.
25:36
OK. Which I did try to turn the
25:38
pages by, like, swiping my finger across the way.
25:40
I do in a single news flash, it was not effective.
25:44
And I was like, oh, it's been a while since I've turned some
25:47
pages. But is that why they do that?
25:51
Because that is how you turn pages?
25:53
I have a book right here it. Didn't work for me.
25:58
Hold on. OK, note for the audio he is
26:01
turning his page by No, you have to see you need to manipulate
26:04
the pages more. OK, he's trying to prove that
26:07
you can swipe pages the same way that you swipe pages on a
26:09
Kindle. I'm just.
26:10
Saying it's not the same, but I'm just saying Kendall, I think
26:13
was inspired. I've just, I've just gotten that
26:16
revelation. What I'm trying to say is I've
26:18
read a book and it was called Dungeon Crawler Carl.
26:22
Have you heard of Dungeon? I've heard of dungeon Dungeon
26:25
crawler Carl. It's hard to say that title,
26:28
Yeah, Dungeon crawler Carl. So I'm just going to call it
26:31
Carl from now on, maybe. OK.
26:34
ECC. Yes, great.
26:37
OK. And I'm sorry, Hold up a second,
26:41
Brandon, you're cutting this audio because I'm going to go
26:43
cough. OK, OK, we're back.
26:48
I love that. Help him.
26:49
About that time cut. It out.
26:50
Yes, it's very important. OK, we're learning.
26:54
OK, so I read this book and what made it made me think about
26:58
Hunger Games. OK, so are you familiar with the
27:01
story? Have you just like heard of
27:03
Dungeon Crawler Carl or? I've only heard of it, I don't
27:05
know anything about it. Starts in Seattle, which is
27:08
great. Nice.
27:10
He's like outside his apartment trying to get his cat out of a
27:13
tree and all the buildings around him flatten.
27:17
And then all of a sudden it's like there's words in his head
27:20
and it's like he's in kind of a cosmic video game where they're
27:23
like, hey, guess what, Your planet is being mined for
27:26
minerals. And if you want to survive, you
27:28
can you need to go to this portal and go down the stairwell
27:32
and enter the dungeon. And he basically has to go into
27:36
a survival game where there's different layers to the dungeon.
27:40
And so you have like 5 days at the first level and then you
27:42
have to find a stairwell and you have to survive and then get
27:44
down to the next level. And it's very similar to a video
27:47
game where when you kill these monsters or bugs, you get to
27:50
like level up and you get loot boxes.
27:52
And so you get to enhance your skills.
27:54
And he goes underground with his cat named Princess Donut, who
27:58
very quickly begins to like shoot lasers out of her eyes.
28:01
And she's amazing and she can talk and it's fantastic.
28:04
It's very, very fun. It sounds great.
28:07
It's really fun. It's very violent.
28:10
And it's just like it's, it's a romp.
28:13
But here's the thing. He's legitimately fighting for
28:17
his life and fighting to survive, but he's also
28:21
participating in this event that's being broadcast
28:24
throughout the universe where there's like an entertainment
28:28
element to this. So very similar to Hunger Games,
28:30
where you have to actually physically survive the
28:33
challenges of the setting that you're presently, like, immersed
28:36
in. But then in order to survive,
28:38
you also have to be entertaining enough to keep people's interest
28:42
and get sponsors. It's going to increase the
28:44
likelihood of you surviving like what's in front of you right
28:47
now. OK, so that got me thinking
28:50
about all these different survivor narratives that we have
28:53
out there. And I wanted to run some of them
28:54
by you to see like what you think of them, because I think
28:58
that element is really, really interesting.
29:00
I think it's really fascinating to have this dichotomy of trying
29:03
to survive the real physical thing that's right in front of
29:06
you, but then also like you have to play for the cameras and you
29:09
have to make it interesting and just that push and pull because
29:13
they're both Survivor games. And we've been talking about
29:15
this extensively as we go through season 50 of the TV show
29:19
Survivor and the social game, as well as like the challenge game
29:22
and things like that. So I am just curious what you
29:26
think about some of these different formats because as
29:28
humans, we are fascinated with survival narratives.
29:31
We're fascinated with like the struggle and the strife and can
29:34
you make it through and will your courage get you there,
29:36
blah, blah, blah. OK, So what do you think about
29:40
the arena competition with the entertainment element of a
29:45
Hunger Games or a dungeon crawler, Carl, Do you like that
29:47
narrative? Do you not like that narrative?
29:50
Well, I like, I like that. I mean, it's the Colosseum,
29:54
right? Like that's that's where it is
29:56
born from and I find it very interesting.
29:59
It's brutal. I don't want to.
30:05
I think I'm too sensitive to watch that type of like to to
30:09
get on board with it. But yeah, I mean, I appreciate
30:16
it as entertainment thing. It does.
30:24
It shows, it shows different types of human brutality, right,
30:26
Because you have the like the actual predator, but then you
30:29
have the cruelty of the people in the capital or the people who
30:31
are alike finding entertainment and joy from other people's
30:35
suffering. Yeah.
30:36
OK. So my next question, if you were
30:38
a contestant in that survival format, how would you do?
30:42
Would you survive? I am one thing about me is I'm
30:48
always going to say yes, I would survive.
30:51
I don't know, you know, I, I, it depends how it comes like what
30:57
it comes down to, right? Like, does it come down to me
31:00
having to like kill the but in The Hunger Games, like does it
31:04
come down to me having to like kill the little girl and the
31:06
grandma 'cause I don't know if I could do it?
31:08
I don't know. I'm not sure.
31:10
But, and it also depends on what the day is, what kind of mood
31:13
I'm in, because sometimes I can, sometimes I am in that mood.
31:19
I think you could. I, I have faith in you.
31:21
I think you could balance the like immediate need of human
31:25
survival, but then also balance the social game and the
31:28
entertainment factor as well. Like, I actually think that
31:30
you're really well suited to that format.
31:33
Yeah. Do you think you would survive?
31:35
I don't know. I never because there's so many
31:38
parts of me that we just compartmentalize and shove deep,
31:41
deep down that I really don't know what she'd be like if she
31:43
was activated. Yeah, that's so fair.
31:46
I also don't know, I feel like the people that tend to survive
31:49
well in those stories and narratives are strategic at a
31:55
level that I don't, I'm not naturally gifted at, and they
31:58
have to do a lot of their like. Patience is a really important
32:02
factor. And if I'm unsure, I'm going to
32:05
jump. And so like, I think the
32:07
impulsivity behind, like, I'm not sure.
32:10
Normally I'm like, I'm just going to go for it and we're
32:12
going to see if it works out. And that's how you end up, you
32:15
know, like flipping a container over that is full of salsa that
32:18
you thought, you know, the press and seal was going to work on it
32:21
in the same way it did in the commercial.
32:22
And so then you flip it and it's all over yourself.
32:24
And you're like, well, I should have thought that through.
32:25
Like, but with my life on the line, like not a real story, not
32:31
talking room experience at all. OK, next.
32:34
What about like a zombie apocalypse?
32:35
Because I feel like that is the story that we have just
32:39
unintended, like beat to death, but the The Walking Dead, the
32:42
zombie land where there's like survival depends on your ability
32:46
to like fight. Well, before we move on to
32:50
zombie apocalypse, I'm sorry, but I do have to go back because
32:53
something came to my head of like, you know, in Survivor, we
32:57
talk in Survivor, the show, they talk about how you don't really
33:01
know what it's like. You don't, You don't have a
33:05
chance to put the relationships to the test that you're creating
33:09
on the beach until you get to tribal.
33:12
So everything that you're doing on the beach doesn't really
33:14
matter until you get to tribal and you vote.
33:17
And so the four times you get it's you've survived.
33:21
Every time you get to tribal and you get through one, you've
33:23
survived. So you don't really know how
33:24
much of A survivor you are until you've had to survive.
33:28
And I do think I have had to survive many times, so I do
33:36
think I would do what it takes to to do what needs to be done.
33:45
Yeah. Anyway, we can go on to zombies.
33:47
Yeah. Well, no.
33:48
Also, I would say that when you are somebody who has to survive
33:51
lots of different aspects, there tends to be a hyper vigilance
33:56
and an observational skill that you develop just out of
33:59
necessity that makes you uniquely equipped to be able to
34:02
navigate those situations. Yeah, we hone the skills.
34:04
We hone the skills. You you sharpen the tools you
34:08
use, right. And so it's like when we're,
34:11
we're out there, it's like, baby, I've done this before,
34:14
I've survived this before. When I'm out there dealing, I, I
34:17
mean, I could list a number of things that I know a mile away I
34:24
can see, I can see a tweaker from a mile away.
34:27
I'm like, Nope, I'm getting away from you, babe.
34:30
So if that is our foundation for like where we're building our
34:34
skill level, I'm dead immediately because I lead with
34:38
trust and vulnerability. And when kids are in my office
34:40
and I'm like, are you on something right now?
34:42
And they're like, no, I'm just really tired.
34:44
I'm like they said they were tired.
34:50
Whoever said that, whatever that was, they're on something.
34:55
You go back to them tomorrow and say I know.
34:58
Like to Heidi and I'm like, I don't know, they said they were
35:01
tired or I just take people at face value.
35:05
And so when people are like, I mean, there are certain kinds,
35:08
like now I can read teens and I can call them on their bullshit.
35:11
But like, for the most part, if people are like, this is who I
35:14
am, I'm like, OK, that is who you are.
35:17
I think there's something really beautiful about that.
35:21
Clearly we're not ready to move on to zombies yet, but we will.
35:24
But I think there's something really beautiful about taking
35:27
people at face value and there's something honorable about it.
35:30
And I do. And I think it that comes from a
35:37
reality of being an honest person.
35:39
And I find I've, I've just recently kind of dealt with this
35:43
where I just, when someone tells me something, I tend to want to
35:48
believe it. And I'm like, OK, you've said
35:50
that this is your truth. I'm going to want to, I'm going
35:53
to go ahead and believe that until you give me a reason not
35:55
to. Even though my now, as I am
36:02
nearing my 40th year on this earth, my gut does tell me the
36:08
bullshit meter is there. And and I and it's like, I know,
36:11
but sometimes I'm just like, well, what if they're telling
36:13
the truth? What if PETA just wants to give
36:16
her some bread? Like, nobody trusted that
36:19
They're like, that's not a thing.
36:20
And I'm like, he's just a good guy.
36:22
That's like my. Yeah.
36:23
So I yeah. Did he turn out to be a good
36:27
guy? Though yes, he was the best.
36:29
Will you chill? Peta's one of the greatest
36:31
fictional characters who's ever been written.
36:32
Fight me on this. OK And my favorite type of
36:38
goodness, like if they're a blacksmith in a fantasy book,
36:41
like they're, they're a PITA, you know, like goodness through
36:44
and through this hard work. Like it's Perrin from Wheel of
36:48
Time. Like that's, that's my fave.
36:50
OK, yeah. OK zombies.
36:54
I hate zombies. They're terrifying.
36:56
And I tell me, would you survive a zombie apocalypse?
36:59
Oh, no hesitation. No hesitation.
37:03
OK, because you don't mind killing like swinging a bat and
37:05
killing the. I'm going to be great at this.
37:08
Listen, Shy and I have plans and I will be ruling upon a throne
37:13
of bones. Yeah.
37:16
And Shy will be my like right hand mask Thai priestess with a
37:21
like bone shawl. Like for sure.
37:26
Honey, have you? I'm assuming you haven't watched
37:29
The Walking Dead. You're not, of course.
37:30
Not, but I do have a baseball bat that's wrapped in barbed
37:33
wire. That's right.
37:34
Yeah, I also have a baseball bat.
37:35
It's not wrapped in barbed wire, but I don't need it to be yet It
37:40
shy and I like watched The Walking Dead religiously, but
37:43
like hate watched it because we really were like, this is
37:46
terrible, but we watched it nonetheless.
37:49
And I think we just have this, this real love for zombie
37:55
culture and a knowledge that when the apocalypse comes, we'll
38:01
be doing just fine. Well, I've already told you my
38:04
plan is to head straight up the I5 corridor to you and then
38:09
you're just going to take care of me and it'll be OK.
38:15
We're back. Yes, we're back.
38:18
OK, it disconnected and came back.
38:19
So that's better than what happens usually.
38:23
So your plan is to head straight?
38:25
To you and you're going to take care of me and it's going to be
38:27
fine. And I'll be your liaison and
38:29
help take care of the people that like, need taken care of so
38:31
you can focus on like, more important things.
38:33
Well, and you're going to have to write the rules right.
38:35
And as a reader, I know that you can write well.
38:38
So yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I got you.
38:41
OK, I will be useful and you're. Trying to pack the family up and
38:45
bring a Mama, but we are not going to be in Seattle so we'll
38:48
we'll talk about this off camera.
38:50
For our location, here's the thing, Kids have really ruined
38:53
the apocalypse for me because my plan has always been to go in
38:56
the first wave. Like, oh.
38:58
Now you got to, you got to survive.
38:59
I'm. Out like I'm done.
39:01
I don't need. I've lived a good life.
39:03
I'm grateful for every day that I've had like Take Me Out.
39:06
I'm not all about, like, surviving on the canned food
39:09
that I can scavenge from somebody else's basement.
39:12
I'm not doing that. That sounds really stressful.
39:15
Yeah. OK.
39:16
But then my kids came around, and now I'm like, well, I gotta
39:18
survive so I can keep them alive.
39:20
Yeah. They ruined.
39:21
It's so OK. So fair, but you know what it's
39:25
we're gonna train them up. They're gonna be little
39:28
warriors. It'll.
39:29
Be great. And it's perfect.
39:30
It's a great reset for my cult. So we're going to be we're going
39:34
to be great. Honestly, I think the apocalypse
39:36
is the best case scenario. So can we get moving?
39:40
We are well on our way. We are heading to the handbasket
39:43
and we like had the express. So yes, stop manifesting that.
39:47
OK, my next survival scenario, we're going to keep moving with
39:51
this is the solo mission. This is like you're stranded,
39:54
this is castaway. This is you have to rely on your
39:58
own individual grit, resilience and determination.
40:02
I don't want any of this. I'm over it.
40:04
What? This is the only scenario where
40:06
I'm confident I would do well. I don't want it.
40:11
I'm, I'm like, I don't, I don't want to do it.
40:14
I I mean, I who's going to build the shelter for me?
40:25
What the, the soccer ball, that thing doesn't talk.
40:29
No, I saw Castaway. It's a no, thank you for me.
40:32
No, no. All right.
40:34
And I saw Life of Pi like Segway, I saw Life of Pi on a
40:39
plane crossing the Atlantic. Bad idea.
40:42
Bad idea, no? I don't know why I did that.
40:45
I did that. And then that Sandra Bullock
40:47
movie where she's in space. And yeah, I didn't enjoy that
40:51
viewing experience in a plane neither.
40:54
Choices. You're making so many choices.
40:56
I wasn't. Well, I was.
40:58
I was. AI was an alcoholic, poke
41:00
addicted young gay man and I wasn't making good choices.
41:04
Let me. Let me watch Sandra Bullock
41:06
drift into the expanse of space while I'm flying over an ocean,
41:10
yeah? I was crying a lot when I was
41:12
alone in those days. I'm happy to be alone.
41:16
I've been through the therapy. I'm very happy to be alone.
41:18
I just Vietnam on an. Island with just a volleyball
41:22
where you have to survive it. Just doesn't sound that
41:25
glamorous. Like, I like camping and I like
41:30
the idea of being on an island, but I don't want to do it alone.
41:34
Oh. My.
41:35
Gosh, like, what am I going to make music myself that just, it
41:38
doesn't sound good? It doesn't sound good.
41:40
OK, well this is the area, this is the one area where I feel
41:43
like I would out survive you then 'cause I'm actually next
41:46
one in a crisis. I believe that's true.
41:48
Yeah, I just shut it down. I feel like I would just like
41:50
dig in and I'd keep going. That's so commendable.
41:55
I'm obsessed. Well, I mean, that's kind of
41:57
what I do right now until like until my body shuts down because
42:00
she's like, you have not listened to all of my cues that
42:04
we are no longer in a sustainable point, so I'm gonna
42:06
just shut you down. So what would be your first
42:11
course of action in like you've you've survived the OK I guess
42:17
this isn't really a solo survival thing, but did you
42:20
watch yellow Jackets? No.
42:23
OK. No, I'm not eating anybody.
42:27
Yeah, I mean, the first season was good, by the way.
42:29
I think it was interesting. If I'm in a team survival
42:32
situation like I will probably sacrifice myself and be like
42:35
y'all like take take my protein you can have.
42:40
Like I would die for the team, but if it was me and I'm the
42:43
only one that had to survive, like I'd figure it out.
42:46
So does is the team survival a separate category than the other
42:51
ones that we've talked about? OK.
42:54
Were we coming to that did I did?
42:56
I think that entirely because I don't like those movies and they
42:58
stress me out, so I don't watch them because I know somebody's
43:01
going to die that I'm attached to and then somebody's going to
43:03
get eaten and I'm not signing up for that.
43:05
OK, So no. In the team scenario, I'm back
43:08
on board. Do you?
43:09
Like Caleb, I didn't. And the I think here's the
43:14
thing, I need to be a leader. That's I think that's what it
43:17
is. I need to have followers.
43:19
I was going. To say that's what it is, it's
43:21
not that you need to be a leader, it's that you need the
43:22
followers. I need the.
43:26
Followers and like, not Instagram followers.
43:28
I need real human disciples. Let's choose your own adventure.
43:38
As long as you're willing to serve and worship Caleb, we're
43:41
good to go. But you don't have to worship me
43:45
serve, you know it. It's just we're, we're all
43:48
serving a greater purpose together.
43:50
I'm just telling you how to do it.
43:54
But anyway, what would be your first course of action?
43:58
And as you've landed on the beach.
44:01
I can tell you right now in Castaway, I would have opened
44:05
those fucking boxes. Like, I know that was their
44:07
narrative thing that at the end, like whatever FedEx propaganda
44:12
ended up working its way into that script.
44:15
Like I understand the way that that made a full circle for his
44:19
character, but it pissed me off because if you're surviving on a
44:22
beach, you have to figure out what your resources are.
44:25
I don't care that those packages have been addressed to somebody
44:28
else in some other place. They're mine now because I'm on
44:31
the beach. And what if they have things in
44:33
them that I need, like a pocket knife or food?
44:36
I'm opening those boxes. That's what I'm going to do.
44:40
And then I'm going to try to find make myself.
44:42
I got to have shelter and then a way to collect water and then
44:46
probably something sharp. I need a sharp stick.
44:49
Yeah. Yeah.
44:51
Because you don't know what else is on the island.
44:53
Are you a? Are you down to like?
44:56
I'll butcher and cook if necessary.
45:01
See, I haven't thought it that far ahead.
45:03
Well, we don't have to kill Butcher and Cook.
45:05
We are omnivorous, right? But.
45:09
Yeah, I don't know, you know. That's OK.
45:11
Maybe. So maybe I would.
45:13
You know how you said earlier, it depends on the mood and
45:15
depends on the. So most days I feel like I could
45:19
figure it out. But then there are days where
45:21
I'm like, maybe I would say, you know what?
45:23
Today I'm going to curl up in the sand and I'm just going to
45:26
hope I never wake up again. And this is just going to be
45:28
where I tap out. And I say, look at this lovely
45:30
view again. I love the life that I've lived.
45:33
I'm so grateful. And also, I'm not doing this
45:36
anymore and I'm out. Yeah.
45:37
Well shit girl, I feel like that sometimes in Seattle.
45:42
Yeah, yeah. So.
45:43
That's fine. You know what?
45:45
OK, side tangent. So I'm finishing this job,
45:48
right? And I've had this listeners,
45:50
I've got like 4 weeks left in this job that I've been at for
45:52
10 years that I love and I have lots of feelings about it.
45:55
And if you don't know that, then you need to go back and listen
45:57
to the rest of our episodes that we've published because I talk
45:59
about it a lot. Anyway, I've had this like
46:03
fixation in my mind about like or this goal of finishing strong
46:08
because you can usually tell when people are getting ready to
46:10
wrap up their time. They get there's a whole name
46:12
for it, short timer syndrome, where you like, just start.
46:14
Foaming. And I was like, I'm going to
46:17
finish strong. I'm going to give everything
46:19
I've got until the end. You know what I had to give
46:21
today? I got out of fucking bed and I
46:23
was like, you know what that is like because I didn't do that
46:26
yesterday. And so I got out of bed and I
46:30
showed up to work today and I was like, this apparently is
46:32
what finishing strong looks like for me is Amen to function so.
46:38
Yeah, you could have just not come in.
46:40
What were they going to do, fire you?
46:43
You know, it would have made the day a lot harder on my Co worker
46:46
and so I if I'm not showing up for myself, I'll at least show
46:48
up for Jamie because that's my the other half of my heart.
46:50
So. Oh, and see, and I think that's
46:53
great. I think that's really great and
46:55
I think that is a strong thing. Sure, even if what I have to
47:00
give is fucking Mondays. I hate this I think.
47:04
That's fine because we give that in when we haven't put our
47:07
notice in too, right? Like that's I sometimes I I can
47:11
do that. Yeah.
47:13
On a Tuesday, not just a Monday, that's.
47:15
Because you don't have to work on Mondays, so.
47:18
I don't have to work. OK, last survival scenario, I
47:21
want to know Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
47:26
OK, is this a team survivor? Have you seen Charlie and the
47:30
Chocolate Factory? Yeah, yeah, in all of its
47:33
iterations, yeah, so. Competition you got to make it
47:36
through the factory would. You say a competition like a,
47:38
but it's like a game show, Caleb.
47:42
Would you survive Charlie in the Wow?
47:44
I can't say that Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or would you
47:47
like go into the chocolate river or turn into a blueberry or, you
47:51
know, fall to the fates of the many children?
47:53
Well. I don't know.
47:58
I mean, I think I would I have I did watch the movie, The
48:04
original and I think in a formative time in my life and I
48:09
feel like I felt very aligned with Charlie.
48:14
You know, the underdog story, the IT with nothing, you know,
48:22
getting making it through and the, you know, it had these what
48:28
are they called? Like moral?
48:30
I guess it's like moral conundrums.
48:31
They're not really moral conundrums, but like.
48:37
There's kind of tropes. I mean, it's not quite like the
48:39
seven deadly sins, but there's definitely there's grief.
48:42
What's the opposite of the seven deadly sins?
48:44
But like, what are the the positive virtues?
48:47
Yeah, virtues. I think that's what I'm trying
48:48
to say. It's like the there's the the
48:51
list of things that Charlie did that were virtuous.
48:54
And then, yeah, the the sinful things, you know anyway that the
48:58
other kids were doing, those bad kids.
49:02
I think you took me into a Chocolate Factory and you were
49:04
like, everything in this room you can eat.
49:06
And of course I'm going to shove my face in the river and be
49:09
like, well, you just told me. You just said it was fair game.
49:13
I think Augustus Gloop, I think Augustus Gloop was, was kind of
49:18
played out. I mean, everyone had a little
49:20
bit of candy, right? They all tried a little bit of
49:22
the candy. And I, that's probably what I
49:23
would do. I don't know if I'd stick my
49:25
head in the chocolate, and maybe that's what it was.
49:27
It's the gluttony of it all, the selfishness of Veruca Salt.
49:34
I don't know the what was that other the girl who turned
49:37
purple? What did she do wrong?
49:39
Violet Beauregard. She eats the gum before it's
49:42
ready. Blueberry.
49:44
She was impatient. Yeah.
49:47
Well, anyway, I think I would make it through.
49:49
Those kids had no manners and I have no.
49:52
Manners. Yeah, absolutely.
49:54
Yeah, I have manners. I would make it through the
49:56
Chocolate Factory. Well, excellent.
49:59
Yeah. OK.
50:00
Those are the only survival scenarios that I will really
50:02
want to talk about, OK. Because I don't want to talk
50:04
about the team survival scenario because I don't like everybody
50:07
dying after I'm attached to them.
50:09
It's awful. I don't like it.
50:11
So yeah, yeah, that's fair. OK, well, if.
50:15
We were in a team survival. I would make sure we all
50:18
survived. Well, unless.
50:21
Someone was causing problems, in which case I would kill them in
50:23
front of everybody to make sure that they knew that That's
50:25
absolute power. Yeah, yeah.
50:28
Well, logically, yeah. And if it came down to it, I
50:31
would like you know, we've already talked about this.
50:34
I would let you have my all my organs if you needed sustenance.
50:44
I'll be keeping my organs. We'll make it through.
50:50
We'll make it through. OK.
50:52
I want to pivot to our actual show Survivor, which is not
50:54
going to be the long, I don't know man.
50:56
I am not feeling super enthusiastic about what happened
50:58
this last week. So we're going to talk now about
51:01
Survivor 50. It was the penultimate episode.
51:05
They did 2 tribal councils in one.
51:07
We lost two people and we're down now to the final five.
51:11
Yeah, I'm giving us 10 minutes to talk about Survivor, and
51:15
we'll just push through it because I agree.
51:18
I'm cool with it, you know? And I think, well, why don't you
51:25
start us out? What do you think?
51:29
OK, I think the women continue to narrate this show so
51:33
beautifully siree it was open with the fallout of Ozzy being
51:39
voted off and whoever else got voted off Emily.
51:43
Ozzy and Emily. Ozzy and Emily and Ozzy, we
51:47
talked about extensively with such a fool.
51:50
And it was so gratifying to hear Siri be like, Oh my gosh, I had
51:55
no idea. I thought you had multiple brain
51:57
cells to rub together. I would not have connected.
51:58
Like, what were you doing? So that was super, I don't know,
52:03
validating to have Siri speak words that I was feeling as
52:05
well. It was satisfying.
52:10
I continue to think Joe and Jonathan are the worst.
52:16
What really pissed me off this time was Joe won a pretty
52:19
impressive immunity challenge by balancing this table with a
52:23
rope. Like, he was steadfast and he
52:25
was patient and he was steady and he won this challenge.
52:27
It was very, very impressive. And then he got to pick two
52:30
people to feast with him. And publicly he was like, well,
52:34
I'm picking Siri because I know she's having a hard time and I'm
52:36
picking Rizzo because he hasn't had a reward in a while.
52:41
And so he presented it as if it was this like benevolent, like
52:46
I'm, I'm this integris man who's doing this out of the.
52:50
Honor and integrity. Heart, honor and integrity.
52:53
And then as soon as they cut to a talking head, he's like, oh,
52:55
it was totally strategic. I'm so over his performative
52:59
honor and integrity. Like just stop holding that
53:02
line. It doesn't hold up for you.
53:04
Please be done it. Doesn't hold up for any man who
53:07
has ever said it ever in the history of survival or survivor
53:11
or survival. Actually, anyone who talks about
53:14
honor and integrity is a scumbag.
53:18
Period. I'm just going to stand.
53:19
I'm going to, I'm going to mark that hill.
53:21
I won't be dying on it, but I will mark it.
53:23
And that's where I'm standing. Yeah, well, so I was wildly
53:27
unimpressed with that. And then I was like, what is
53:29
happening? They went to tribal council.
53:30
There was 40 minutes left in the episode.
53:32
I had not anticipated that it was a double episode.
53:34
So Rick Devons got voted out. I was so impressed with the way
53:40
he carried himself even to the end.
53:41
He's so generous with his heart and with his self.
53:44
Like what a contrast to the other dudes that are on the show
53:47
still. Like he was like just look at
53:50
the stars like that were here and he was like tearing up about
53:53
how grateful he was for his experience.
53:54
My gosh, that made. It's really beautiful.
53:56
It made me emotional too, honestly.
53:58
Like watching it, I'm like, that is someone who's just living
54:01
life with integrity and I'm like with joy.
54:08
Yeah, exactly. Never once did he utter those
54:10
silly 2 words. But like he just played the game
54:13
to play the game and with joy in his heart and to and to make it
54:17
joyful for the people around him too.
54:20
Wasn't being an awful person. He wasn't being a snake.
54:23
He wasn't doing anything that feels negative to me as a
54:27
viewer. He had fun and he doubled the
54:30
fucking prize pot by putting himself out there on the line
54:34
just for the story, just for it to be good.
54:36
So more players like Rick Devons.
54:38
Rick Devons is a legend. I love that man.
54:42
He's so cool. What a cool guy.
54:43
He is the coolest. Yeah, I love what?
54:48
So he's so present and I just, I really do admire and respect the
54:53
way that he carried himself throughout the whole thing into
54:56
the end and that it was so ironic.
54:58
Or not maybe not ironic, but just interesting that his
55:02
conflict with Joe, that Joe held so strongly was based on him
55:07
being a bad guy. And I'm like, Joe, you're the
55:09
worst, so you're done. OK, Get the fuck.
55:12
Out of. Here, OK.
55:13
And then in the next challenge, they all conspired against
55:16
Tiffany. I know.
55:18
I know that your allies only last as long as they're needed,
55:21
but like, Joe's supposed to be locked in with Tiffany till the
55:23
end. So again, another example of
55:26
them all conspiring against her. They're like, we're going to
55:28
work together because she can't win immunity.
55:30
And that bad bitch locked in, she did that challenge.
55:35
Everybody's working together trying to solve the puzzle
55:37
because Joe and Jonathan get to the puzzle 1st and those Dum
55:39
Dums can't spell and they're like, I don't know what's the
55:42
word? And Tiff just did her own thing
55:45
and she won. And that victory was so fucking
55:47
sweet. I was like, that's my girl all
55:49
the way to the end. There is nothing quite like a
55:54
scene of or, or people conspiring to take out.
56:06
I don't know. There's just something, there's
56:08
nothing quite like, it's just this lone black woman.
56:12
Just it's just they're against all odds, against all people.
56:16
And it's the two, it's the two black women who are just like
56:19
they've, they've got each other's backs.
56:20
I don't know. It's a real, you know, the thing
56:24
that's really cool about Survivor that continues to
56:26
always be cool about survival Survivor is it is a mirror held
56:32
up to society. It does a great job of holding a
56:35
mirror up to our current societal place.
56:40
And I think there's these moments in fiber history that
56:45
are great snapshots. And I think that that for me
56:49
will go down as a snapshot and it it's a beautiful outcome to a
56:55
stomach turning moment because it really was bowel.
57:02
And I get that it's a game and I get that.
57:05
I get that Aubrey is playing a game and I actually really love
57:08
Aubrey. But there's something just like
57:12
gross about that whole moment. And I, I'm so glad that Tiff
57:16
locked in and won. And again, a great snapshot of
57:20
black women will do it. They will do it and good for
57:25
her. And I love her.
57:26
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't deserve her.
57:29
Yeah. I mean, obviously we're not
57:32
going to be able to talk much about Suri being voted off other
57:35
than what a She's been so continued to be so graceful in
57:41
all of her press after the fact. And just another woman who has
57:46
carried herself with such gratitude and presence and has
57:52
just the loveliest, loveliest. But it was really, really hard
57:55
to see Rick and Siree, who have been just sources of light and
58:00
joy as well as excellent gameplay throughout this entire
58:03
season. That was hard.
58:07
And so I'm looking at this final five and the final five are now
58:11
Rizzo, Tiff, Aubrey, Joe and Jonathan.
58:15
And it's I like my odds like I like when I have like three
58:22
people to root for. And right now I'm, I only want
58:24
Tiff. I'm like, if Tiff doesn't
58:26
fucking win this whole thing, like I'm going to be, we are
58:29
going to have words and we'll have words off air because you
58:31
brought me along on the side and I'm so deeply invested and man.
58:38
It is I I really understand the move Rizzo made.
58:46
It's unforgivable, it's unacceptable, and I get it.
58:51
And I know for Serene forgives him, right?
58:54
But like. We don't have to.
58:56
I don't have to and I never will, and I don't want to see
58:59
him win. It was not the right move.
59:01
It was a coward's move. I think to me, Rizzo, I'm sorry,
59:05
you just played in Season 49. You didn't need to be.
59:10
You didn't even need to be in the final tribal and to be up.
59:14
The best thing for his story truly would have been to go to
59:17
the final with siree because that was because you were so
59:21
confident in your game and lose to three because there's no one
59:26
better to lose to. And I get it.
59:29
That's coming from someone who's not on the fucking beat, hasn't
59:31
done back-to-back season. I get it.
59:34
I don't really have a whole lot of room to talk, but I just, I'm
59:38
like, I, I can't imagine earning on my closest ally like that.
59:45
That's just like, I mean, I can imagine it.
59:47
Of course I wouldn't do it. It's I would rather go to the
59:50
end. That's the way that I would play
59:51
the game. I would rather go to the end
59:53
with the strongest person and sit in the tribal council and
59:56
say that I'm stronger than them. And This is why.
59:58
And This is why you should vote for me and then not get the
1:00:00
votes. And I would be OK with that.
1:00:02
Yeah, and back to Tiffany being the best weeks ago or days ago,
1:00:09
I guess, on their timeline, she was like, Rizzo is confident
1:00:12
he's not gonna play the idol. This is when we take him out.
1:00:14
And they didn't listen to her. She knew.
1:00:15
She knew and she knew. Still.
1:00:18
I can't believe he's still holding on to that idol.
1:00:20
And he'll use it. He'll he's gonna just skate his
1:00:23
way into the top because of. It he'll be in the top four if
1:00:26
Tiffany doesn't win this next one, they will vote her out and
1:00:31
that's disgusting. I.
1:00:34
Cannot. If she doesn't win this next
1:00:38
there's I just don't. It's going to be the same thing.
1:00:40
They're going to get rid of her the same way they're getting rid
1:00:42
of siree and it's and this is where I talk about like the
1:00:45
snapshot of like culture. I don't think we're in a great
1:00:49
place culturally. I don't think it's good to end
1:00:52
in like an all white final three in this in the season.
1:00:58
And but anyway, I really hope that it's tiff.
1:01:01
I really hope that Aubrey is in the finale.
1:01:06
I would be happy to see Aubrey win.
1:01:07
She's been, she's played four times, she's been in the final
1:01:10
every single time. She's an incredible player.
1:01:15
Really. She's an incredible player and
1:01:17
we see it playing out now and she's always been in the same
1:01:21
kind of situation, like against all odds, has fought tooth and
1:01:25
nail to get herself to the finale.
1:01:27
She's actually got the best track record of any Survivor
1:01:29
player in that way. Every season she's been on,
1:01:32
she's made it to the final. No other Survivor player can
1:01:35
boast that. Wow, wow.
1:01:37
OK, Is there a world where Joe or Jonathan win?
1:01:44
Yeah, there's always a world where it happens.
1:01:47
I don't. Need you to lie to me and say
1:01:48
no. I don't see a world where Joe
1:01:50
wins. I don't see a world where Joe
1:01:52
wins though. Not what they edit, they edit.
1:01:55
In like fool I know, but Coach and Chrissy could vote for Joe
1:01:59
and I could see that happening. I could also see Coach and
1:02:02
Chrissy voting for Jonathan, Stephanie.
1:02:06
So that's now we're starting to count the, the, the jury, right?
1:02:09
Stephanie will vote with coaching Chrissy, I think, and
1:02:12
they those 3 will probably vote for Joe or Jonathan if they're
1:02:16
in the final. I could see it happening.
1:02:18
They could also vote for Aubrey or Rizzo.
1:02:21
Like I could, you know, potentially because I mean,
1:02:27
we'll see, but I'm trying to think.
1:02:33
I think Siree votes for Tiffany no matter what.
1:02:36
I think Siree probably votes for Aubrey as well.
1:02:42
Well, I guess we'll have to see. We might need to time our
1:02:45
viewing of the finale episode so that we can.
1:02:48
I'm not, I don't want to wait. I'm going to have to like live
1:02:51
text you as I go through it. So.
1:02:52
Yeah, well, maybe we'll just have to be on here watching it.
1:02:56
I don't know but. Yeah, OK, OK.
1:03:01
So that's my thoughts. Yeah, we're done.
1:03:03
Well, did we miss anything that you didn't get to talk about?
1:03:04
I don't. Think so?
1:03:05
No. All right.
1:03:06
I'm just I will. The other thing I'll say is it's
1:03:10
being said, and I agree. I mean, it was a big deal for
1:03:13
Aubrey to say she's the best player to have ever played.
1:03:16
She's better than Tony. She's better than Sandra.
1:03:20
Sandra. Sandra is queen Sandra.
1:03:22
She's played and won twice. Tony has played and won twice,
1:03:26
though he didn't deserve the second one.
1:03:28
So but Aubrey. Said that about Serree.
1:03:33
Yeah, Aubrey said that about Serree.
1:03:35
And it's also being said she's she is the best player to have
1:03:40
never won. And they are.
1:03:43
And she said it herself, she's like, I don't think I could ever
1:03:46
win Survivor at this point. Like unless I'm on Survivor with
1:03:49
24 people that are like the top elite echelon of players that
1:03:56
are not concerned about me winning, then I'm not going to
1:04:02
make it to the end. And I think that's true.
1:04:04
I just don't think that no one will sit next to her.
1:04:06
And that's cowardice. I'll sit next to Sri any day.
1:04:11
100%. Yeah, OK, now I'm done all.
1:04:15
Right. All right.
1:04:16
I love that. Thank you.
1:04:17
Good thoughts to close this on. OK, to end this episode, we are
1:04:21
gonna go to a segment that we have not done yet since we've
1:04:24
been publishing but is a favorite of ours called
1:04:26
Solicited Advice, which is we have received questions from
1:04:31
listeners and Oh my gosh, listeners, if you have questions
1:04:34
that you want us to speak to, I don't know how you're gonna send
1:04:38
them to us 'cause we don't have a presence on social media yet,
1:04:41
but just no. Do we have an e-mail?
1:04:44
No, we. Don't have an e-mail?
1:04:45
We do. Maybe we do.
1:04:47
We do. We do have an e-mail.
1:04:50
We do have an e-mail. We'll figure it out here.
1:04:52
I'm going to find out how to contact us and I'll put it in
1:04:56
the description for this episode.
1:04:57
I will actually put it in the description for this episode.
1:04:59
If you have a question that you want us to speak to in your own
1:05:03
segment of solicited advice, please send it our way and we'll
1:05:06
solve all the world's problems. Now, disclaimer, neither of us
1:05:10
have read this question before. Caleb's reading it right now.
1:05:13
You, you don't you dare. He's reading it right now, but
1:05:17
I'm going into this blind, no? I'm not, I'm not reading it.
1:05:19
I was just looking at the two of them.
1:05:21
I I OK. I'm not reading and I'm just
1:05:24
looking at it. OK, Caleb, hit us with a
1:05:26
question. Let's solve all the words, OK?
1:05:28
Question number one or question #2?
1:05:31
11 OK, let's go one. OK dear, looking into supposedly
1:05:39
I have a crazy question for you. I say supposedly because.
1:05:42
I need a pen so I can take notes and I want to track it as we're
1:05:45
going through wait. OK.
1:05:47
OK, a crazy question. OK, glasses Pen.
1:05:54
You want me to send it to you? No, I need to say it, see it
1:05:57
visually, but I'm just going to do the best I can.
1:05:59
So you just read it and I'm I'm a lock in.
1:06:01
OK, I'm OK, go. OK.
1:06:04
You're looking into supposedly I have a crazy question for you.
1:06:08
I say supposedly because one of your listeners is a friend of
1:06:11
mine and they asked me to send my question in to get your take
1:06:17
on it because they think what I'm doing is crazy.
1:06:19
But I don't think it's crazy at all, and I'll explain why at the
1:06:22
end. What a convoluted opening.
1:06:24
Let's go. This is my situation.
1:06:29
Basically, I have severe I have severe trust issues and CPTSD
1:06:35
resulting from a serious domestic violence incident which
1:06:38
I'm being treated for with meds and therapy.
1:06:41
Slow down, slow down, but define CPT, The thing the acronym for
1:06:47
listeners. OK dear listeners, CPTSD is
1:06:54
chronic post traumatic stress disorder.
1:06:58
Isn't it complex complex. Complex.
1:07:00
Yeah. I'm not a therapist.
1:07:03
Sorry, I am a woman diagnostic ability.
1:07:08
Basically when you PTSD happens when you have like a singular or
1:07:13
like a focus traumatic event. Complex PTSD happens when you're
1:07:16
exposed like repeatedly, like often trafficking survivors have
1:07:20
complex PTSD. So it's like it's a very, very
1:07:24
intense diagnosis to work through for the neurological
1:07:28
implications of what happens when you survive an ongoing
1:07:31
traumatic event. OK, Thank you.
1:07:32
Yeah, OK. CPSD resulting from a serious
1:07:38
domestic violence incident which I'm being treated for with meds
1:07:41
and therapy. Good for you listener.
1:07:44
Good for you. I can't clean my house and do a
1:07:48
lot of everyday tasks or do a lot of everyday tasks due to my
1:07:53
disability and the side effects of the medication I am on.
1:07:57
So I rely a lot on apps like Task Rabbit that send helpers to
1:08:01
your house that you can pay by the hour.
1:08:04
Great work around. I love this for you.
1:08:06
OK. The thing is, due to my trust
1:08:10
issues, I portray myself as blind in the app.
1:08:18
It makes me very. Resourceful.
1:08:20
Yes, it it makes me feel better to have them around the house if
1:08:26
they think I'm blind so they won't suspect I'm watching them,
1:08:30
paying attention to what they're doing, where they're looking,
1:08:33
whether they're pocketing things, snooping, whatever.
1:08:37
When people think I can see perfectly, I feel like they
1:08:40
become more performative and careful in a way that hides
1:08:43
their true selves. My friend, your listener says
1:08:47
this is manipulative and crazy, but honestly I see it
1:08:51
differently. I feel like I'm testing people
1:08:53
who work around vulnerable clients.
1:08:56
In my mind, I'm not creating danger.
1:08:58
I'm finally becoming a vulnerable person who can bite
1:09:00
back. What do you think?
1:09:03
Sincerely 1 not so blind mouse. Oh my God.
1:09:12
I. Love this listener.
1:09:14
OK, I have so many things to say.
1:09:16
One, being in treatment and therapy for surviving the trauma
1:09:22
that you've survived right right away.
1:09:24
I'm a fan. Let's go.
1:09:25
You're doing the work. Fantastic.
1:09:27
OK, I love the way that you have come to peace with the impacts
1:09:33
to your functioning by finding workarounds.
1:09:35
That's amazing. Like yes, use apps to come in.
1:09:41
I don't really have an issue with the fact that you're
1:09:43
pretending to be blind. Me neither.
1:09:45
I'm. Like if that's what allows you
1:09:47
to to function and get people in the door so that you can have
1:09:51
like some sort of stability and structure to your life.
1:09:54
Like, OK, I think if it becomes a problem for you and the label
1:09:58
that your friend is giving you of saying that this is unhinged
1:10:01
or this is crazy, which is not a word that I'm a fan of, then
1:10:04
that's something you could unpack with your therapist to
1:10:06
figure out. Like, OK, is this my next step
1:10:10
of or the next area of my life that I want to work on and being
1:10:12
able to build trust issues of maybe being able to show up for
1:10:16
a task rabbit person as my full self and see how they show up.
1:10:21
But like, honestly, you do you, Boo.
1:10:23
Like that's great. Amen.
1:10:25
I mean, are you following them around though?
1:10:27
And like watching them while also pretending to be blind
1:10:29
because the visual of it is kind of throwing me.
1:10:32
Yeah, I do have follow up questions.
1:10:35
Hey, are you wearing sunglasses? Yes, how?
1:10:38
Are the sunglasses designer? I think that's an important
1:10:41
question. OK.
1:10:43
If they're designer, what designer are they, Caleb?
1:10:46
You are so off track, right? Now it's important questions.
1:10:53
OK, I completely agree. This being pretending to be
1:10:59
blind is not a we all pretend to be a lot of things.
1:11:01
Some some men pretend to be straight and they're not and you
1:11:05
know, and we accept that and so that's fine.
1:11:10
I think that where it goes from because you're doing it in the
1:11:16
comfort of your own home while a stranger is in your home and you
1:11:20
do have reasonable. There's reasons why that would
1:11:27
be a a struggle for you. Right.
1:11:29
Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Heidi.
1:11:30
Understandable reasons why that would be a struggle.
1:11:32
Yeah. And so I think that it's you're
1:11:35
like Heidi said, you're working around some things that and
1:11:39
finding ways to make it more comfortable for you and also for
1:11:45
for you to, you know, get things done.
1:11:47
So I think that's great. Where it could become less great
1:11:52
is if you were taking this character, this role play
1:11:57
outside of your home and engaging with social services or
1:12:04
some other like things where you're being dishonest to
1:12:10
receive special treatment, if that makes sense.
1:12:13
Where you're wearing a disability or for the benefits.
1:12:17
Yes. And I think that would be
1:12:19
inappropriate and that would be disrespectful to people with the
1:12:24
real different ability. So that's something just to be
1:12:30
cognizant of and mindful of in your experience of this.
1:12:36
And you know, if you're do in your own house, role play how
1:12:40
you want to role play in your own house.
1:12:42
That sounds fierce. And the the other area where I
1:12:46
feel like you would, I would want to encourage mindfulness of
1:12:50
it transcending outside of a transactional relationship.
1:12:53
Yeah, because. At this point, the dynamic is
1:12:56
you're having one person come in to complete a service.
1:12:59
It doesn't really matter how you're showing up in that
1:13:01
relationship because the service is the focus.
1:13:04
But if you're taking this dynamic and relationships where
1:13:08
it's not a transaction, it's actually like a relational
1:13:11
investment, then I would encourage you to be showing up
1:13:13
as your full self. Yeah.
1:13:15
Why are you covering your face? I'm just imagining them doing
1:13:19
this with like big Chanel glasses on.
1:13:26
You know, it's actually a great meet cute for like, a romance
1:13:28
novel. It's so great for a romance
1:13:31
novel. Fell in love with the cleaner
1:13:33
and then you have like come clean about the fact that like,
1:13:35
you're not actually blind. Amelia Medelia falls in love.
1:13:42
I'm obsessed. Dear listener and writer, I'm
1:13:47
obsessed with you and I need to know more about you.
1:13:49
Yeah, and also your sunglasses collection.
1:13:52
Yeah, I gotta know, please. OK, I'm sorry, what if they're
1:13:55
not wearing sunglasses? You just try to like focus like
1:13:58
on a non. How do you pretend to be blind?
1:14:02
Like you'd have to wear sunglasses.
1:14:03
But you can't read anything in the house that's you got to role
1:14:07
play effectively. I think you got to wear
1:14:09
sunglasses. Yeah, sure, Although a blind
1:14:13
person. Would a blind person wear
1:14:14
sunglasses in their own home? No.
1:14:17
But maybe around people I don't know.
1:14:18
Actually, Full disclosure, I don't know enough blind people,
1:14:21
so I don't actually know. And now, now I'm starting to
1:14:24
feel uncomfortable. I don't know the.
1:14:25
OK, OK, we can solve the question.
1:14:28
You do you Boo and take care of yourself and way to figure out
1:14:31
how to function and survive. And I mean, if it is a problem
1:14:35
for you, then that's something for you to work through with
1:14:37
your therapist. But.
1:14:38
Yeah, and good for you. Having a friend that's gonna
1:14:41
tell you that you're manipulative and crazy.
1:14:43
That is fabulous, I think, but it's really important to have
1:14:47
friends that check us and that listener.
1:14:50
Good for you telling your friend that they're manipulative.
1:14:53
Maybe choose a different word other than crazy because Heidi
1:14:56
doesn't like that word. No, my face is doing lots of
1:14:58
loud things right now. We love you nonetheless.
1:15:02
Do we I? Mean Yes, we do.
1:15:04
And you? Listener, you're welcome to send
1:15:06
in your own questions next time. And you?
1:15:09
Wouldn't hear me. Describe your friends.
1:15:12
I think a level of sensitivity for somebody that's dealing with
1:15:15
a diagnosis of that intensity is to be encouraged.
1:15:19
So, yeah, OK. Well.
1:15:21
Can't wait to know more about you both.
1:15:23
He's really most interested in the sunglasses.
1:15:26
I really am OK. I really am OK.
1:15:28
I really am. Well, on that note, I feel like
1:15:30
that was another episode of looking into Caleb.
1:15:32
We looked into it. We looked into it and it was so
1:15:34
fun. It was fun.
1:15:36
I think we'll survive in whatever scenarios.
1:15:39
Unless it's a team scenario dynamic, you'll survive.
1:15:43
I'm trying to summarize our conversation.
1:15:44
No, please. Some of the disciples and
1:15:46
apostles were maybe gay, but that's not a label that we would
1:15:49
use. And Jesus Christ Superstar, is
1:15:52
it still playing at 5th Ave. Go see it and.
1:15:54
It's not. We saw closing night and you
1:15:56
know, we did see closing night. And I, I do shout out to Judas.
1:16:03
I feel like Judas was probably a little, a little bisexual, but
1:16:08
we could talk about that another time.
1:16:09
Yeah. OK on that.
1:16:10
Great. I'm so glad we brought it full
1:16:12
circle. I'm not uncomfortable at all.
1:16:14
Brandon, play us out. Play.
1:16:17
Us out, play us out.