Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / Elevator Inspections, Training & Safety: Lessons from a 30-Year Industry Veteran | Chris Strawn

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Elevator Inspections, Training & Safety: Lessons from a 30-Year Industry Veteran | Chris Strawn · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Don't depend on other people telling you what the rules are.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's always something lost in translation.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Have the information to know how to get the answers you need.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then it doesn't mean that you won't listen to somebody else.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: It just means that you listen with the knowledge of knowing at least what you're what you believe you already know or your perspective.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it may cause you to go back and do some more studying.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it does for me.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: So pay attention.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you really if you really want to advance in in our industry, it is just about keeping up with the knowledge.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: To inform and share less learners building upon the foundation of those who have gone before, to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Chris started in the industry of serving two tours in the U.S.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Navy.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: After 10 years in the field, Chris joined his brother and another partner, building a firm which included inspection, consulting, and education.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Chris likes to teach action about safety and helping people take responsibility for their own learning.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, welcome to the show.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 1:37
  unknown: Thank you.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to be able to talk to you.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's always a pleasure to talk.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this time we get to dig a little deeper into you, your career, your company, and I'm looking forward to it.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, good.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad to be here.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm excited about it.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good, good.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to start with my favorite question, which is tell me how you got started in elevators in the first place.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I uh I moved back to Florida and uh I was a single parent and had a back from where, if I may.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh from California.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I was in the uh two tours in the Navy.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, good for you.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I lived well, I'd moved back from Hawaii back to California, and um I was, you know, it was I was struggling because I was a single parent.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I moved back out to Florida, and um my brother tried to convince me to get into he was in the elevator business and tried to convince me to get into it, and I said no, and did some other things for a little while and until uh it became you know obvious that I needed I needed to do it.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like yeah.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I had I I did some hard jobs.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I substitute school taught for a little while.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a hard job.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I just say if you're a school teacher out there, uh you don't get paid enough.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially at the junior high or middle school level.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh they are rough.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: They are rough.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you think you're rough with your teenager at home, imagine having a whole class.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Multiply that by 30, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you did that for for I did that for I don't know, six six months or so.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then eventually um my uh my brother convinced me to get a job with the elevator company, and that's that's what I did.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I got a job with uh Maori Elevator Company.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: And right there in the panhandle, right?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Aren't they in uh uh Mariana?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we had there was a relationship already.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: My my dad and uh my stepmother had met uh Tim and Laura Mowry years prior, um down in somewhere on that um uh church couples thing.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: Now Tim and Laura are a little bit younger than my dad, but um the next thing you know, uh they're visiting, uh they're up in the panhandle.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Tim thinks he's going to, you know, it's a good idea, I guess, probably to move up there.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so he moved his business out of Davy.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he opened just opened up another part of it up in uh they still got the one down in Davy.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: And okay.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that's where I started.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Cool, cool.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you're was your father in the elevator industry as well, or or no, my dad was my my family had uh architectural meal workshop.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, they built cabinets and all these other things, uh, just about anything you can do with wood.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um that was from you know, from the 40s.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, kind of no one no one from the family had you know kind of taken over.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so uh around 90-ish, I guess, I wasn't here.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they they um they they sold.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And uh my dad subsequently um took a job doing uh as an instructor with um the prison system.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so he was teaching uh prisoners how how to make cabinets, how to make you know uh things that they could use, um, including uh building cabinets for the the offices, I guess, that they had.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: And um so yeah, he was never in the I think it I think he built the cabinets maybe for Tim's office in over in Bluntstown, where he originally was.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when you started, were you in the field?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: What was your first assignment?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, I was actually manufacturing, and um it, you know, it just didn't go very well.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I you know, I wasn't real.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: There were um, I mean, it's I'm okay with it, but there was there were some other things going on that uh just didn't appeal to me.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so um they asked me if I wanted to go into the field, and I said, Yeah.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so that was kind of you know, in the field, you it is what you make it.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you can decide, and that was a little bit uh a little bit like the military in that you you got different groups of people.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you got the people that are just there and waiting to be told, you know, and then the ones that you know have a little bit of initiative, and then the ones that have a lot of initiative, and uh, and I was always a go-getter.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so um it was an easy thing for me to get into and uh really uh kind of make my own way with it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then of course, you know, my brother was my brother's a smart guy and uh real sharp, uh, you know, especially on this stuff too.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so I had and uh and people around me, I had you know, smart people around me.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I had, you know, if I had to go to them, I had somebody to go to.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how how long did it take before things really started to click?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sounds like manufacturing didn't, but but once you got yeah, yeah, probably a year, year and a half at the most.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I was you know, kind of uh on my own.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't much longer after that.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of of a supervisor.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so uh we had I had a lot of large contracts.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh on service, is that what you mean?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, service, service.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and so uh as a matter of fact, uh those uh I don't know who has the contracts today, but uh I think it's all mostly uh TK has them today.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, and so uh that's that's where that's where everything started.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: And um, like I said, you know, it was uh uh as much as you apply yourself, uh as much as much work as you'll put on yourself or whatever, people will let you have it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: Don't get out of the way and okay, well, you want to do that, okay.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you wanted to work overtime, or if you wanted to work, you know, uh yeah.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I was a single parent up until uh 90.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: My wife's not watching 98.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I won't tell her.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I won't tell her.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, I'll just make it sure that I had my math right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right, good, good, good, good.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so 25 was 25 years in uh in April.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, since you since you started, how long was uh would did you still you know spend in the in the field doing maintenance?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um well about 10 years, yeah.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: About 10 years.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um then uh around the 2000 um uh time frame, we uh um things things were changing.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: The code was changing.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um some of the things in Florida was changing.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: We had uh we were set to adopt for the first time a standard building code, okay, which was going to change a lot of things.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: We had our first building code uh in 2001, and this was something that was would built was built up since uh Hurricane Andrew, which had happened 10 years prior.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: And um so that that changed a lot of things and really took off um with uh people getting you know certified, being qualified.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um you had to have a certificate of competency.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you had to pass the test in the state of Florida to get a to be able to work.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: Originally, when they had the certificate of competency in Florida, you only had to have it if you worked on state jobs, which is why I got, which is why I initially got mine, because everyone wasn't required to have it.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually, everyone, well now, of course, everyone is required to have some sort of certification and be registered in the jurisdiction where you work.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: So after 10 years, then then as as this uh code's coming through, the ch the changes are being adopted and everybody's getting certified.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: What what what changed for you?
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um 9-11.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 9-11 changed a lot of things for me, and I realized I needed to do something.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't I wasn't in the right place.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: I knew I wasn't in the right place because I was in a federal courthouse on uh that morning.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that shook you up a little bit, yeah, yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: I still go by the uh the place that I stopped.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: I hear you, yeah.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Life changing.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was a big day, yeah.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know what the possibilities are.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_02: The um one of the things that my wife would been calling me at the time and saying, uh, where are you?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I'm on the way home.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Get kids, you know, I know a place where we can go, um, because you don't know, uh, you don't know what's gonna happen.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I was the kind of work I did in the military gave me a a uh maybe an unfair insight into what the possibilities were.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm just looking at the sky, you know, and looking for paper trails and looking, and it's a crystal blue sky, I think.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm driving down uh 19 coming from Albany, Georgia, back to uh doing 100 miles an hour.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's nobody on the road, and uh I all I got is the radio and and I could see the sky, and they're talking about you know all the planes are down.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's such a huge thing, and um I'm I'm just locked in, and uh out of the blue, somewhere between Albany and you know, Thomasville, a crop duster.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Come slide across the road, he pulls up right over right over the road.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: I had a shotgun out of stopped and unloaded.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: He probably, you know, poor guy.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: He has no, he probably has no idea.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: He probably didn't know what was going on, yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: He's just flying, you know, he can't hear anything anyway.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he's he's been out there flying and spraying, and it's probably you know, within 30 or 45 minutes of it happening anyway.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, and so but it scared me.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I thought we were done, yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: By then, you know, just and uh and I guess uh that's probably uh what changed it for me, and then I um I went um uh Bill and Lee or Lee had started something, and Bill was going in there in with him and my brother and uh said come on.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And uh and they one of the things that that we uh I I like to think anyway that we we were so good together because um my uh well Lee Lee was such a code um person.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um and he'd been you know the guy at the jurisdictional level in Florida.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Bill, my brother, had been the plans examiner, and of course, in addition to code, had all this recent uh heavy, you know, elevator experience, um just a lot of knowledge.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was uh um I was a piano man, you know, I'm the details.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh it really worked good.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: The three of us could get together and and talk about and really bring the best out.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: I like to think anyway, uh, and that's one of the good things about being with them over time is that having the ability to, you know, uh a lot of times even people think, well, you know, it things well, it really doesn't matter.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, it does matter to me because something you may say may make me think about something in a different way, and uh and it benefits somebody.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, so so let's let's back up just a second.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So you you mentioned Lee by my first name, but but what's his last name?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just so Lee Rigby, I'm sorry.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, it's all good.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean it sounds like he and and Bill is your brother, Bill Strong.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Bill Strong, yeah.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean they sound like they huge mentors for you.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were, you know, absolutely bringing you along, absolutely pulling you in the first place.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's all you know.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: We uh, you know, we would occasionally still have that uh you know, those hallway discussions.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we we had we had pet names for it, but it's it's it's not appropriate really.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know what you're talking about.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure our listeners do yeah, those cuss and discuss uh moments that you can have, you know.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta have them.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they gotta have them.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: In the end, you know, I think that, or I or at least I like to think that that we, you know, a lot of times relied on each other, um, especially bouncing ideas off of each other, or um, or you saw something.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Just you know, uh, and I and a lot of people in the elevator industry can relate, it you think that you've seen it all if you haven't.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Never, no.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: And uh you can go to another town or city, or you go to your neighbors, and you're likely to see something you've never seen before.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh any good or bad, uh I'm not just it's not about I like seeing uh new or old elevator equipment and just just looking at um the difference in in where we were and where we are and uh things that we did, you know, especially with electricity, um, and and the the size of the equipment, uh, especially, you know, with the advent or uh of computer chips and and stuff like that, um uh really changed, really changed the industry.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you could put you know, in a shoebox something that it used to take, you know, an eight by ten room.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: So what was it you three created?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You said had started something.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh well, uh vertical assessment associates.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: We did inspections first, and we also as a as a result began doing consulting because it kind of went with people were always calling and and with complaints, and and of course, Lee and Bill having been with the state, um, it was unusual for them to uh handle complaints and stuff like that.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um we uh um and once we started doing inspections, I mean uh the state privatized the inspection process uh 1-1 of 01.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, okay.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we uh began uh doing inspections and eventually um you know we had you know there were 20 we had 28 field inspectors.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah, we were one, if not the largest, we were one of the largest in the country.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um we did a lot of uh a lot of things and uh so not just Florida, you were you were yeah, we were doing Mississippi and eventually, you know, Alabama.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: We we had branched out and we're doing uh once Las Vegas um privatized, we we started doing uh things there.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that's uh when you say things, I don't want to get into that, but you know that well I mean I mean inspectors.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean I mean inspect we started doing inspections there, and um the uh it if that's an interesting uh interesting place.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's some definitely some nuances and uh yeah, you could yeah, elevator inspectors out there couldn't even get into the houseway.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, not supposed to, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, do everything from outside the houseway.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure how that works, but okay.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's that's just so it works on paper.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's uh yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this oh go ahead.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um then uh with through the inspection process, of course, uh we had a lot of things uh, you know, that we learned along the way about handling people, of course.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and um I got tasked with a lot of those things.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Eventually it got down to where uh we were also Lee was doing uh expert witness, you know, legal cases, stuff like that.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um Bill was doing most of the consulting, or he was running the consulting side, and uh, and that left me with the inspectors.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I gotcha.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and uh it was it was it was interesting.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um trying to get, you know, we were hiring um guys, uh most of the guys we hired would retire from the union or something like that at 58, and we would hire, they'd get their QEI and we'd hire them into the inspection process.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, they have all the experience in the world, but you can't you can't duplicate.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and and usually safety practices uh which you know weren't as prominent as they are now, but at least they are were in a position to recognize them.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: But still, when they would go out in the field, they hadn't uh they weren't experienced in having to tell me what a 1981 elevator is doing compared to you know, or a 1985, you know, what what could be on the interior of the elevator versus um you know a 1968.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, yeah.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so um a lot of elevator inspectors would defer to the latest code or the code maybe under which that they got their certification under, and that wasn't always the right thing, trying to um have people um consistency, trying to have people consistently noting the same violations, making it mandatory that they had to document a violation in a certain way so that it wouldn't uh use uh or the elevator company wouldn't see that as some other work.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: We we had elevator companies we've written up the door restrictor before on and the elevator companies.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Company would sell them a new door restrictor.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And the mechanic could go out there to to put the new door restrictor on and get out there and say, Well, it's got a door restrictor.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what I just adjusted it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I don't need to replace it.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, too late, the customers already paid for it.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what do you do?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everybody's got you know egg on your face.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: The elevator company calls you and complains because you're private industry now and you're in the customer service business.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: They don't have to have you, they can have somebody else.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, you know, trying to make consistent for make consistency um or make the elevators inspectors consistent.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: So they see, you know, see the same things and write things the same way.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense, it's gotta make sense to them, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that they can see okay, this needed to be written up versus what was this guy doing?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: So how you had 28 people.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it sounds like that was uh certainly a challenge trying to get everybody on the same page, getting them to be consistent, get them to refer to the proper code year, you know, all of that.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: So how long did that uh did you do that before you decided to in about 20 maybe 14 or so, we sold all the inspections to ATIS.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so uh we made them the biggest, yeah.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, and so then uh we we had already created uh to another company, ESTS, and Lee was kind of running ESTS, Bill was running uh vertical assessment, and so um I did a little bit with both.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: I did mostly consulting.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we didn't do you know really uh any inspections that was part of the cell uh to not compete with them on the inspection level, of course.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right, and um so uh and then um Lee was looking to slow down a little bit and whatnot.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: And uh so I said, well, you know, I'll let fill in and take um more up to speed on this is uh something I like to do, you know.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: I uh um I um it's in my it's in my lane, if you will.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me this just for me and I guess I'm uh listeners, but what does ESTS primary uh primarily do?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, primarily um it's uh safety training.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean it is technical safety training, but we also do um other other types of training uh other than just the code to code people.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: We also provide training for um emergency personnel who may be removing you from a stuck elevator, or we provide training uh using the same requirements to authorize personnel who may assist emergency personnel in the removal of stuck passengers.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it uh it's it's really critical, I I believe you see it see it more and more.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I know elevator technicians are very familiar with you know the fire department showing up and uh and they don't know how to open the elevator door.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh maybe they have the power off, maybe they don't.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um maybe they take the pickaxe and knock a hole in the door big enough that you can stick your hand in there and unlock it.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've seen that.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm sure.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's uh in, you know, for authorized personnel, it's necessary for them to have some sort of a training to understand some of the safety precautions that are involved.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they don't show up with a big heavy jacket and gloves, and you know, they just show up in the work clothes and say, Here's somebody knocking on the other side of the door, hey, I'm stuck in the elevator.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, things that they can do, and understanding some of the safety precautions are necessary for working around elevator equipment.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we also do we still do uh expert witness uh for legal cases for accident cases and stuff like that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So primarily it's teaching though.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You were talking about how you know Lee was kind of moving this direction.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Are you are you pretty much running ESTS at this point?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's your I am running ESTS.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um Lee is still with me.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And uh he's um I which I'm which kind of my he's uh um my my security blanket.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Love it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um so uh even though you know I don't know that I need it, but I sure do, I love him, you know.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can I I uh he's like a brother.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, I wouldn't want him to be not be here, yeah.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: Same with my brother, even though my brother is doing primarily uh he does um consulting, and I, you know, do as much of that as I can, and he's he's been understanding about it, um, because um doing both things, and uh, you know, I don't know what's gonna happen in the future, but uh because we're all getting older.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: But right, um it's it's working, it's it's running me crazy.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you that.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I run all over the place.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: What what do you love most about the industry?
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've been at it for what'd you say, 25, 26 years, something like that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what have you come to love?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: 30.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is that what it was?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: 31 31.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I guess probably the people.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: I like the people.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: I like I like equipment.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: I like whenever you uh you get, I don't care if it's a boat motor or or a crane or an elevator, um, or a reduction gear on a ship.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: Uh when you see the when you see the parts move and understand, when you look at it, you go, that's crazy.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: How is that how is that even possible?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: How's that working like that?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: And uh just uh that's intriguing to me.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I uh I guess most of my most of my life I've been, you know, from the from the day that my stepdad showed up at the house and I had the lawnmower uh completely disassembled in the carport.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, uh son, what are you doing?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, I took the lawnmower apart.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, Yeah, I see that now, but why?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, just to see how it worked.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, Well, you better have that thing back together by Saturday because you got to cut the yard.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, did you?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, of course.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I I've taken apart a lot of things that I could not get back together.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So if my hat goes off to you, I'd I love it.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I cut a lot of yards as a kid.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, a lot of yards.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: But the the uh yeah, the industry is I guess probably it it's a little bit like the you know, a little like the military in that you gotta show up.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Gotta, you know, gotta it's not like um if you go to an office, um, I I feel like uh you can leave the office and leave the work there.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we don't leave.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: We don't leave our work.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, most of the time I I um I'm at work, you know, kind of all the time, and the military was a little bit like that.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you're always thinking about it, or I'm around somebody, we're talking about you know, different things, uh, nuances or different occurrences or different types of equipment or rule changes or you know, those kind of things, you easily gravitate towards people like that because of your you know, similar interest, I guess.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but we have those categories of people, like the the people that are just here, sure, and then the people that are uh I say, you know, the coasters, the people that are uh just here, and uh then the people that are uh really interested too, and they may be limited uh by you know by their knowledge or by their education sometimes.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then then we got you know people that are go-getters.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and uh but you know, we also have um I think that we uh seen that one of the things probably that I least I like the least is that you know sometimes we get the most experienced guys that have the most knowledge and they are kind of on their own path.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we used to call it short timers.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you know, yeah.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they get that, uh they get and and sometimes they get complacent.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the complacency is is one of the areas that you know can safety can uh really uh rear up on you environment.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sure you've seen plenty of those examples situations.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um so let me ask you this.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: What what are some of the biggest issues facing the industry overall as you see it?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um gotta have enough people, enough people to do the work.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um but first um we've got to uh make sure that we are attracting and maintaining and and keeping the people that we have.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and using them uh recognizing what their abilities are um and using them to the best of their ability.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I see many times, again, I I hate keep referencing the military, but um you you see many times that um people are disturbed or they're upset about a person away a particular person is, um, but you know, I try and encourage them to say, you know, you you you've you hired a person that is capable and you have failed them by not putting them in a position to be successful.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: If you put them in a position to be successful and they're not, then maybe they maybe it was the wrong choice.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they need to need to go do something else.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I think that many times um, and they're you know, management, you could change management like underwear, you know.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, it happens.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Now we have private equity groups and and whatnot, and um uh so some hopefully now, and I know that I've been working uh very, very excited, uh, been working with uh NAEC and their education and safety.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and and the they're a big push and a big effort to involve new people to try and um attract younger people to get into the industry.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we are the best blue-collar, you know, paying.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you might you might uh fly fly an airplane for somebody or or operate a crane once you get qualified, right?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, you know, you you uh I don't think you'll hire in at somewhere, even at a helper, um, you you won't be able to match those kind of wages anywhere.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I know the union right now is also looking to attract um new uh talent and or you know younger, younger community, and and uh so they're going through that process right now.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: I put something on LinkedIn, which was copied, you know, from someone else.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um that uh uh the dates around where people can go and uh I encourage anyone that if they're interested or think they might be interested in um you know the construction type of business or or something like this.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're if you're a nonchalanter or you're you know you're uh you're not a very big a quick pickup, you probably shouldn't participate in the uh elevator industry.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Although you may be you may be a numbers person and you be and it may be fine for the office.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we hired we hire a lot of people, um uh going back to what I said about the 70s thing, we hire a lot of people right out of college to be in sales teams and stuff like that, and we train them to hire to to sell a certain way, you know, product or whatever.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and they they do what they're supposed to do, they they really get out there and get after it because that's what they're on.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, they don't know anything about elevator equipment.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of the things that's changed over time.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: It used to be that your sales or account rep had some experience, and they would go into the field for a little while and get some experience um before they would go into the office.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: Those those um those types of situations hire them because you know that you could bring them in at the base, you know, you don't have to pay somebody that's been all this experience, you'd have to pay for it.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of um one of the things that probably um I don't know.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I know that we saw one of the companies, you know, cut back uh quite a few positions this year or trim them and refill them with somebody, you know, usually that means making less money.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh I I don't know how it's gonna work.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you know, we'll see.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Find out.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: What uh what would you say?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you had some advice to offer people who are who are new to the industry, what would you what would you tell them?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um go to work.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, uh as long as, you know, I'm super tickled.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh one of my nephews is in the in the elevator business now, and he's uh he he's he's not a big talker.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: So he's you know nose down and and and gets the work done.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um understanding having having uh some uh you know getting your priorities straight and understanding that this requires your full attention and that you know hard work is where you're gonna get somewhere, um, and uh you know practicing safety.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's um that's that's the biggest thing.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta stay alive to get that extra money.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's not true.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: What so what's one of the I guess as we uh kind of getting close on our time here, but what's what's one of the biggest lessons that you've learned throughout your career that you'd like to share with our listeners?
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um the biggest lesson is uh is I mean really is don't take anything for granted.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um don't take your safety for granted.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um don't take don't take your paycheck for granted.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know understand that uh you know maybe maybe not today, you know, but there will be a time um if you work long enough and you survive, there will be a time when the shoes on the other foot and um you won't be able to go take an hour lunch, or you won't be able to um, you know, goof off, or you know, so uh just uh have uh have the intestinal fortitude to to be a hard worker and and to keep your mind open uh and and learn.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that I think I try to encourage people all the time about is don't depend on other people telling you what the rules are.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right uh because there's always something lost in translation.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um have the information to know how to get the answers you need.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then um it doesn't mean that you won't listen to somebody else, it just means that you you listen with the knowledge of knowing at least what you're what you believe you already know or your perspective, and it may cause you to go back and do some more studying.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, it does for me.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so pay attention.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh if you really if you really want to advance in in our industry, it is um, you know, just about keeping up with the knowledge.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean what I hear you saying is take initiative, you know, you can't wait on somebody else to to shove the information into your head.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Go find it, go get it, go, you know, claim it, you know, make it yours, and then you can always add to it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, thank you for being with me today.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate your time.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's uh a pleasure for sure.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it very much.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's uh I I can talk about elevators all the time.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna talk for about 11 hours straight tomorrow.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate you being on here and uh wish you the best as you continue to build your business.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, sir.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate it.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.