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Ley Lines: Ancient Energy Paths or Modern Myth? · Aliens? Yes! But Maybe No | UFOs, UAPs & Alien Mysteries

0:03
Josh: Aliens Aliens, yes.
0:09
Travis: But maybe no Uh-oh, another show.
0:23
Josh: Oh yeah.
0:23
Travis: Well, we are doing another one, so welcome to it.
0:28
Josh: Even though everyone's telling us not to, even though everyone's telling us and they should yeah, Keep that up.
0:34
Travis: Yep, it's good for our mental health.
0:36
Travis: So this is the show Aliens, yes, but Maybe no.
0:39
Travis: With Josh and Travis, I'm Travis.
0:42
Josh: And I'm Josh.
0:43
Travis: This is an otherworldly podcast as ambiguous as our title.
0:47
Josh: So last week we kind of.
0:50
Travis: No idea.
0:50
Josh: Beard, slightly away from what we normally talk about and went to cryptid.
0:56
Travis: Oh, that's right, we talked about a.
0:58
Travis: Thing.
0:59
Josh: Yeah, it kind of had some alignment with aliens Sure If you squint.
1:03
Josh: If you squint?
1:04
Josh: Yeah, it kind of did.
1:05
Josh: You were very harsh with me.
1:09
Travis: Just towards the end.
1:10
Travis: Oh my God.
1:11
Travis: Okay, I'm going to be harsh with you now, forever.
1:14
Josh: Yeah.
1:14
Travis: I know you really want to believe, and that's fine.
1:16
Travis: That was what I was trying to communicate.
1:18
Travis: I know that in your heart of hearts, this is something that you really believe in and that's totally fine.
1:24
Josh: The proof is out there.
1:25
Josh: It's not definitive proof.
1:27
Josh: Are you taking from the X-Files?
1:30
Josh: Yeah, a lot of alien theorists say yes.
1:35
Travis: Sure, but those are people that have a dog in that fight.
1:38
Travis: Right, that's right.
1:39
Travis: If you become an alien theorist, you're like, okay, I now have to dedicate everything that I do to this.
1:43
Travis: Yeah, when I watch ancient, okay, I now have to dedicate everything that I do to this.
1:45
Josh: Yeah, when I watch ancient aliens I chuckle a lot because they just come up with the craziest things and then they'll say ancient alien theorists believe yes, They've never said no.
1:58
Travis: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's totally fine.
2:00
Josh: But yeah, I mean I've mentioned before just there's a lot out there.
2:07
Josh: There's a lot of information Some of it is probably not true, but just the majority of it as well as the government involvement, the congressional involvement, the scientific involvement, the witnesses, the whistleblowers.
2:16
Josh: It just seems as though there's something there and it's kind of like a controlled disclosure as the government and the world kind of prepare on what to do and how to handle this, as well as trying to make it so it's not a shock to society.
2:32
Josh: That's what it seems like and there's just enough proof.
2:35
Josh: And if what is happening does mean aliens, then some of these stories are probably true.
2:42
Josh: Not necessarily everything.
2:44
Josh: I mean you watch ancient aliens or go on YouTube and there's some wild stuff out there and maybe that was part of some of the disinformation stuff too.
2:52
Travis: What Sorry I spaced out.
2:54
Josh: Yeah, I know what were you talking about.
2:57
Josh: Well, maybe I should leave that out of the podcast because I can't keep you hooked.
3:03
Travis: I'm fine, I'll be fine.
3:04
Travis: I just spaced out for a little bit there.
3:06
Travis: I don't even remember what you were talking about.
3:08
Travis: We had introduced our topic from last week, which is the Flatwoods Monster, yes, and then we jumped right into the controversy of how that episode ended, which was me accusing you of being delusional, being too sincere about this, maybe a little too precious.
3:23
Travis: I am precious, yeah, you are.
3:25
Travis: You're a precious sweet little boy, baby, yeah, but Flatwoods Monster I think is a very intriguing idea.
3:31
Travis: I love the idea of cryptids and the cult around cryptids I think is very interesting.
3:37
Travis: I mean, who wouldn't want to believe in some mythical monster?
3:40
Travis: It's.
3:41
Travis: The whole reason I got into fantasy was because, if you start to read about unicorns, you want to believe that those kind of things exist, like orcs and goblins and yeah, one of the bigger ones is mermaids.
3:53
Travis: There's a lot of people of sound mind that believe that mermaids are real sure but what I'm saying is like I grew up reading fantasy and so I have a natural inclination to want to believe in this kind of stuff like fantastical creatures.
4:07
Travis: Yeah, because it backs up my idea that magic still exists in the world.
4:12
Travis: And you know, I think that that's kind of a nice, a nice thing to think about.
4:15
Josh: Yeah, it is.
4:17
Travis: So who's going to be reading from the dossier this week?
4:20
Josh: I can.
4:20
Travis: I do have some scene setting that I'd like to do.
4:23
Josh: Yeah, so today, if you listened to last episode, you'll know that we are talking about ley lines.
4:28
Josh: Yeah, la, la, la ley lines.
4:30
Travis: La, la, la, la, la ley lines.
4:33
Josh: Yeah, I knew a little bit about it.
4:35
Josh: I didn't know much.
4:36
Josh: We watched some videos, our researcher gave us a lot of notes.
4:40
Josh: We don't know everything.
4:42
Josh: We're still learning.
4:43
Travis: Well, we don't know, we don't know shit Every time we do these quizzes.
4:46
Travis: It's funny I'm like never heard of it.
4:49
Travis: Flatwoods Monster never heard of it.
4:51
Travis: Ley lines are like such a big part of like fantasy fiction.
4:57
Josh: Yeah.
4:57
Travis: That I was just like.
4:59
Travis: When it was introduced last week, I was like never heard of it, Sounds wackadoo.
5:05
Josh: Yeah, it's shown up in TV and movies so much I was looking through where it's showing up in media and I was blown away how many things it is in, yeah, and comics and video games and fantasy.
5:16
Travis: I mean, it's all real so with a little scene setting.
5:20
Travis: Okay, I'm gonna set a set a tone.
5:22
Travis: So it's 1921.
5:25
Josh: Are you going to play some smooth jazz?
5:26
Travis: right now.
5:27
Travis: Imagine the year 1921.
5:29
Travis: Steam machines and dragons are ruling the airs.
5:33
Travis: Down here on the ground, elves and dwarves are fighting a war that's on the horizon.
5:39
Travis: And then we have this one wizard, Alfred Walken, standing alone on a hilltop in rural England.
5:46
Travis: He's looking at a map, tracing lines, connecting dots, and then something clicks.
5:53
Josh: I don't know where you're going with this, but go on.
5:55
Josh: That's it, oh, okay.
5:58
Travis: So Alfred is.
5:59
Travis: Alfred is the guy that coined the term ley lines.
6:02
Travis: I just feel like the origin story of ley lines sounds like it's coming from a fantasy, like he's on a hilltop and is connecting lines from one church to another.
6:14
Josh: Yeah, it's like an origin story that changes everything.
6:17
Josh: Sure, yeah, I can see that.
6:19
Josh: Yeah, yeah, it is basically true, except most of it.
6:24
Travis: What the dragons or the steam-powered flying machines?
6:28
Josh: Yeah, those probably didn't happen, the elves.
6:32
Travis: I think that, oh, josh, okay, tell me, elves don't exist.
6:35
Josh: That's for our other show.
6:37
Travis: Tell me, dragons don't exist.
6:38
Josh: That's yet again another show that we do Dragons.
6:42
Josh: Yes, but maybe no.
6:43
Travis: I don't feel like you're yes-anding me well enough.
6:46
Josh: Well, I'm working on it.
6:48
Travis: So churches, ancient mounds, stone circles, old wells they don't appear randomly scattered throughout the countryside.
6:54
Travis: They seem to align right.
6:55
Travis: That was his idea.
6:57
Josh: Yeah, yeah, and a little rabbit trail I did when I found something online that he coined the term ley line, because they align Ley line align.
7:11
Josh: The lines went through a lot of towns that had ley in it, so he just ended up coining ley lines, and this was in England.
7:20
Travis: Yeah.
7:20
Josh: And so that's where the name came from.
7:23
Travis: Name one town.
7:24
Josh: Leyland.
7:25
Travis: Leyland.
7:26
Josh: Landley, landley I don't know.
7:29
Josh: I'm going off of what I read.
7:31
Travis: That's wild, that's a wild connection.
7:34
Josh: Yeah, what I read did not have the names.
7:36
Travis: Well, the magic's gone for me now.
7:38
Josh: Oh, okay.
7:39
Travis: If that's, the connection he made was that these lines went through towns that had to lay somewhere in it.
7:44
Travis: It's gone.
7:45
Travis: That's not what he made.
7:47
Travis: There's no more magic.
7:48
Travis: No more magic in the world.
7:49
Travis: He simultaneously created and destroyed magic with one move.
7:53
Josh: No, no, he just he named it after that.
7:55
Travis: That's ridiculous.
7:57
Josh: That's just UK.
7:58
Josh: We'll talk about a little bit further.
7:59
Josh: There's other cool names.
8:01
Travis: I know I'm saying that's ridiculous.
8:02
Travis: That is a ridiculous way to come about this name.
8:05
Travis: I'm not casting aspersions on your research, I'm saying this guy, alfred, his reasoning behind coming up with his name is dumb.
8:12
Josh: Maybe he's not a creative person, which could benefit him in this being real.
8:18
Josh: If he couldn't come up with a name, how could he come up with this?
8:22
Josh: Uh, no, so yeah, a ley line in its simplest form is a straight line drawn between landmarks, often ancient or culturally significant, that some believe carry symbolic, energetic or historical importance, and these may include temples, stone circles, pyramids and, in more modern interpretations, sites like cathedrals or power plants, and Watkins initially imagined them as ancient trade routes, practical pathways that guided people through forests and across hills.
8:50
Josh: But as the idea gained traction later, writers and spiritual thinkers began to reinterpret ley lines in a more symbolic or metaphysical light.
8:59
Josh: Some proposed that these alignments reflected subtle forces flowing through the earth perceptible only under certain conditions or perhaps even understood by non-human intelligence.
9:10
Josh: Similar concepts appear in different cultures, Like Native American traditions speak of spirit lines that's a cool name.
9:18
Josh: In Australia, aboriginal song lines that's even cooler.
9:22
Josh: They use song lines to trace sacred journeys across the land.
9:25
Josh: In Chinese geomancy, dragon veins.
9:29
Travis: There we go.
9:30
Travis: Now we're getting there yeah.
9:32
Josh: They describe energy flows that influence the harmony of structures.
9:35
Josh: In some parts of Europe, stories describe fairy paths and ghost roads, straight, unseen tracks used by spirits.
9:42
Josh: They're probably just game trails.
9:43
Josh: Well, they're unseen, so this is probably just game trails.
9:45
Josh: Well, they're unseen, so this is separate than game trails.
9:47
Josh: How do you prove that they're there?
9:49
Travis: it's the whole point of this episode then it's just somebody drawing a line on a map like the shortest distance between two points right yeah, it could just be that but like nobody walks down these paths, it's just him saying here's a cathedral here, there, there's a cathedral there.
10:03
Travis: This line between the two cathedrals is now a ley line.
10:08
Josh: I don't think that these fairy paths or ghost roads are necessarily correlated to ley lines.
10:13
Josh: We're just talking about energy paths right now, kind of what it's evolved and what it looks like around the world.
10:19
Josh: Okay, go on.
10:20
Josh: So while these ideas are culturally distinct in their areas, they reflect a common instinct to find meaning in the shape of the land and to connect places that feel important.
10:31
Travis: So, whether viewed as ancient wayfinding systems, spiritual currents or artifacts of pattern recognition, ley lines remain a topic of fascination, and they blend landscape legend and universal human drive to create order out of complexity sure this sounds just like a bunch of woo stuff, like I have no better understanding of what a ley line is after hearing you describe what a ley line is than I did when we first started this podcast, so like there's energy tied to it basically it's kind of like an invisible grid system that covers the world.
11:06
Travis: So like latitude and longitude lines.
11:08
Josh: Basically, but it is in a geometrical formation and along these lines are very large and significant developments or landmarks or mountains or things that have ancient spiritual meaning or things we don't even know what they are.
11:27
Josh: Also along these lines there are energies.
11:31
Josh: Some say that are the reason that these things were built.
11:35
Josh: So basically they're saying that ancient civilizations and ancient people, and sometimes not so ancient, we built things on purpose in specific locations because they were on these energy lines that are around the world.
11:50
Travis: But these energy lines, like the very first description was a ley line, in its simplest form is a straight line drawn between landmarks.
11:58
Josh: Yeah, I don't think Alfred Watkins, the guy who coined the term and wrote the book.
12:03
Josh: What's the book called?
12:04
Josh: The Long Straight Line or whatever, I don't know.
12:09
Travis: The Long Straight Line from Findlay to Landly and all the Lees in between.
12:13
Josh: I don't think that he was as far in his thinking as some of the modern day thinkers that ley lines were.
12:18
Josh: I don't think he was thinking energy or anything like that.
12:22
Josh: I think he just found a connection and that was that this was kind of like the origin.
12:28
Travis: And then later, like in the 60s, Like I understand like the cultural side of it, like finding it in fantasy books, because that is an idea that magic can be drawn from certain areas, Like it's going to be stronger along this ley line than than is anywhere else.
12:46
Travis: You can draw power from that and there's something like as far as a narrative goes.
12:49
Josh: That's cool, like very cool yeah, and ley lines also show up in the supernatural world as well.
12:56
Josh: So these same ley lines I believe they're the same ley lines.
12:59
Josh: They are also high ghost areas as well.
13:04
Travis: What do you mean?
13:05
Josh: Along these ley lines.
13:06
Josh: A lot of hauntings or spiritual encounters happen in these lines, as well as Interesting Historical ancient spots.
13:15
Travis: Okay, interesting.
13:16
Travis: So ghosts there's more occurrences of spectral phenomena along these ley lines than there is anywhere else.
13:22
Travis: Ghouls Well, ghouls are like the undead.
13:25
Travis: What, like a zombie, is a ghoul?
13:27
Josh: Yeah, my whole life.
13:29
Travis: Not like a ghost.
13:30
Travis: A ghost is something different.
13:32
Josh: Well, if ghouls do happen, it'll probably be on a ley line.
13:35
Travis: Okay, well, you heard it here first.
13:37
Josh: So I don't know.
13:45
Travis: I mean, we've talked before that we're not big believers in ghosts or the supernatural, but I do get scared watching a ghost movie.
13:49
Travis: I get scared.
13:49
Travis: I will say that I do.
13:50
Josh: They're very scary, yeah, I actually just don't watch them.
13:52
Josh: They just pop out.
13:53
Josh: Yeah, what's up with that?
13:54
Josh: Casper Friendly?
13:56
Josh: Doubt it, doubt it.
13:58
Travis: Get out of here, not likely.
14:00
Josh: There's a lot of compelling things to ley lines.
14:03
Josh: I don't know the supernatural aspect of it, but I do know that there's probably compelling evidence for that as well.
14:10
Josh: Same with UFOs, we're mainly talking structures and things like that, but around ley lines there's a lot of UFO activity.
14:19
Travis: Holy shit, I just made the connection.
14:20
Travis: A-lee-ens, a-ley-ens lines yeah yeah, that works.
14:24
Travis: Aliens, aliens lines yeah yeah, that works Maybe.
14:28
Josh: Is there something there?
14:28
Josh: Yeah, if you overlap a map of all the alien sightings with the ley lines, you'll see a bigger congestion around the ley lines than not around them, basically Mm-hmm.
14:40
Josh: So maybe there's something and if there is energy, maybe there's something there that we can't feel or recognize.
14:47
Josh: They've said that there's electromagnetic.
14:49
Travis: Where does our guy Lou Elizondo fall on ley lines?
14:52
Travis: Do you know?
14:52
Travis: I don't, I don't know.
14:54
Travis: So you ever brought it up.
14:56
Josh: Not that I know of, but he's not the only one, and that might not be exactly his.
15:03
Josh: I think he has a biological background.
15:05
Josh: Lou Elizondo is one of the whistleblowers.
15:08
Josh: You don't need to tell our listeners.
15:10
Travis: Well.
15:10
Josh: I mean, if this is our first thing, I just don't want an inside name.
15:13
Josh: He ran AATIP in the Pentagon and left because they weren't taking him seriously and he had a lot of stuff all over the place.
15:23
Travis: Well, I'm not finding anything with Lou Elizondo and a take on Leyline, so he probably just believes in it.
15:29
Travis: Lou, if you're a listener, let us know.
15:31
Travis: Write in to our fan mail.
15:34
Josh: Yeah.
15:35
Travis: And let us know where you fall on the Leyline.
15:38
Josh: Yeah, we won't tell anyone.
15:39
Travis: We'll probably talk about it on our next episode.
15:41
Josh: I doubt he's going to write in.
15:43
Travis: Well, it'll be Bluey Alejandro, yeah, sure.
15:49
Josh: Yeah, we could do that, Bluey.
15:54
Travis: We play that.
15:54
Travis: So every time we leave the house we have two dogs.
15:56
Travis: When I leave the house I put Bluey on for them.
15:59
Travis: They seem to love it.
16:00
Josh: Do you really I?
16:01
Travis: do really.
16:02
Josh: Wow.
16:03
Travis: They love it.
16:03
Travis: It's actually this is way off topic but it is designed with colors that are within the dog's visual spectrum, so they use, like blues and yellows, things the dogs can see.
16:16
Josh: Interesting.
16:16
Travis: Because it's a show about dogs for kids.
16:18
Travis: It's a great show.
16:20
Josh: Oh, I've seen it.
16:21
Josh: It is great, I've cried watching that show.
16:23
Josh: I haven't done that.
16:23
Josh: Oh, I've seen it.
16:23
Josh: It is great, I've cried watching that show.
16:25
Travis: I haven't done that.
16:25
Travis: Oh man, Beautiful show.
16:26
Josh: I mean going off of things that dogs can see and animals can see, things that we can't.
16:31
Josh: What if there is something that we can't see?
16:33
Josh: Maybe there is some things that we can't feel or see, and even with science that we can't even test, or we don't know how to, yet we don't know what to test.
16:41
Josh: We don't know how to yet, yeah, we don't know what to test.
16:44
Josh: We don't even know what to truly hypothesize about, like we can say, yeah, it's here, but what is it?
16:49
Josh: It seems as though with Watkins, he had this idea and then it's evolved into energy and then in the newer, in the 90s, and today it's healing and it's kind of a new agey thing.
17:02
Josh: So we'd really have to nail down what a ley line is or kind of come up with a real definition to be able to test something like that Plus change our mindset, our scientific mindset.
17:14
Josh: You know the paradigm and archaeological mindset that maybe there is something there, maybe to eventually test it.
17:21
Josh: You know, like 30 years ago we weren't researching and talking about aliens and UAPs because the paradigm was we don't talk about that, that's crazy.
17:30
Josh: And now we are doing tests and running things and it's a little more acceptable in the field.
17:35
Josh: So maybe someday we can get to that point, especially with advances in technology.
17:39
Josh: That'd be cool.
17:41
Josh: So the compelling cases for ley lines.
17:45
Josh: Those who support the idea of ley lines often point out the global alignments of sacred sites.
17:49
Josh: So some people believe that many of the world's well-known ancient landmarks were intentionally placed along straight alignments, like Stonehenge in the UK, the Great Pyramid of Giza in Egypt, machu Picchu in Peru, chichen Itza in Mexico, easter Island in the Pacific and Glastonbury Tor in UK.
18:10
Josh: Those are just some examples.
18:12
Josh: There's hundreds and thousands along these ley lines.
18:16
Travis: Hundreds and thousands, that's a big number.
18:19
Josh: These locations are thought by some to sit on energy hotspots where the ley lines intersect.
18:24
Josh: So some of these bigger ones and, it is possible, some of these old ancient ruins that we have, it doesn't make sense why they were built there, you know, like up on top of mountains.
18:36
Josh: It's like they purposely drag rocks hundreds of miles.
18:40
Travis: Well, if you're building on a mountain, you already have the rocks.
18:43
Josh: Well, they can do sampling, and the rocks aren't from that area.
18:46
Travis: Well, I don't know that that's true.
18:48
Travis: I haven't read the research on that yet, but the reason you move to a certain place is either to get away from a threat or resources.
18:57
Josh: Yeah, so there's things outside of towns.
18:59
Travis: And so they were able to like Chichen Itza and Machu Picchu, up at the top of these mountains.
19:04
Travis: They have resources up there, they can get out for goats, they found ways to bring water up, and sometimes it's just like and I'm not speaking about these civilizations like one of the seven wonders of the world is the Greek gardens or whatever, where it's just like a flex.
19:19
Josh: Yeah, and some of it could be for sure, but I don't think all of them are.
19:23
Josh: Some of them could be for sure, but I don't think all of them are Some of them.
19:24
Josh: It just doesn't make sense carrying and moving a ton pound boulder.
19:29
Travis: Well, it does Millions of times.
19:30
Travis: If you're creating something like humans want to create and have a lasting legacy and how else are you going to get that lasting legacy other than by building something incredible, you know.
19:41
Josh: In some places.
19:41
Josh: Yeah, absolutely.
19:43
Travis: I mean, that's what the pyramids are.
19:44
Travis: They were a testament to the pharaoh.
19:46
Travis: Right.
19:46
Travis: Pharaoh, from the moment he's born or becomes pharaoh, starts designing and building these pyramids as a legacy to him.
19:55
Travis: Potentially Okay, there are other theories.
19:59
Travis: I'm speaking basically on what we know about the pyramids, not wild speculation Like that is.
20:07
Travis: What we know about the pyramids is that they were built as a giant tomb as a legacy to this pharaoh.
20:13
Josh: Yeah, and there might be.
20:14
Josh: I mean, there's a lot of really compelling evidence and just strange things about just the pyramids alone and maybe that was part of the design, maybe it had more than one function.
20:23
Josh: It's possible.
20:25
Josh: But back to ley lines, where these energy spots intersect they call them energy vortexes.
20:30
Josh: It's where multiple ley lines are believed to cross.
20:34
Josh: Proponents described an amplification of energy.
20:38
Josh: These spots are associated with personal transformation, spiritual clarity or heightened awareness, and that's kind of like where I think the new agey-ness kind of gets involved.
20:48
Travis: It does, I mean if there is like an energy center or whatever, or it flows along these lines, kind of like if you think about tributaries, and we have those with water, but we also have those with rock and granite, marble and stuff like that goes through the earth.
21:03
Josh: So if you, yeah, frequencies, I mean that's's real you can think of things like that.
21:07
Travis: I mean, the earth is a.
21:08
Travis: It's a complicated planet, right?
21:11
Travis: Yeah, and there's a lot we don't know about it.
21:13
Travis: And you know, magnetic fields and the way that reacts to our human body could be interpreted a bunch of different ways, so sure yeah, and that kind of leads me to the ancient builders of these things.
21:26
Josh: If they were like you know the term grounding where you like you take off your shoes and you actually touch the ground and you can get some benefits from that.
21:34
Josh: If they were just born perpetually grounded and they were kind of more in tune with the world, if they were able to observe some of these things that maybe we're just disconnected from because we're so distracted Because we wear shoes and clothes yeah, it is possible.
21:50
Josh: Or maybe they had it as some survival thing in their DNA and it's just kind of evolved away where we just don't have that anymore because we don't need it.
22:01
Josh: Some interpretations suggest that ancient civilizations had knowledge of this land's energy and that's why they built all these locations, kind of creating a global energy network.
22:11
Josh: And then Tony Wedd in the 60s he kind of made it about aliens, saying you know, maybe it's an alien guidance system.
22:19
Josh: He proposed the theory that ley lines might have functioned as navigational tools for alien spacecrafts.
22:24
Josh: He observed what he considered correlations between ley line intersections and reported UFO sightings.
22:30
Josh: This idea later evolved into more expansive theories, suggesting Earth was mapped by extraterrestrial intelligence, using it as an energy grid, which would be interesting.
22:39
Josh: If you kind of like a wireless charger, like a craft, come down and just charge with the energy that they've created, sure.
22:47
Travis: So these ley lines were put here.
22:49
Josh: That is one theory.
22:51
Josh: That was Tony Wedd in 1960.
22:53
Josh: He came up with that idea and it's kind of evolved a little bit more where it's like an energy grid system.
23:00
Josh: Yeah, and then John Mitchell's influence in 1969, from the book the View Over Atlantis, mitchell connected ley lines to sacred geometry, ancient wisdom, traditions and planetary energy systems.
23:13
Josh: Drawing on the Chinese concept of dragon veins, he suggested that ancient people or potentially otherworldly beings built in alignment with natural energy currents flowing through the earth, built in alignment with natural energy currents flowing through the earth.
23:25
Josh: So there's a lot going on.
23:26
Josh: There's also the spiritual earth energy.
23:28
Josh: So some contemporary perspectives describe ley lines as spiritual or psychological paths, routes that map not just geography but internal growth or transformation.
23:38
Josh: Fun like a spirit journey or a quest.
23:42
Josh: They would basically just go on a spiritual journey and just be guided.
23:45
Travis: Yeah, like a walkabout, yeah, or a vision quest, they would basically just go on a spiritual journey and just be guided, yeah, like a walkabout, yeah, or a vision quest, but that usually involves a lot of drugs.
23:51
Josh: That's true, which I mean?
23:52
Josh: There's a lot of drugs that we haven't researched.
23:54
Josh: Some of it might.
23:55
Josh: I mean, I've heard some insane things about mushrooms.
23:58
Travis: Oh, we've researched the shit out of mushrooms.
24:07
Josh: Yeah, recently, no, like recently, like since this century, like the 20s, but we're still trying to figure it out.
24:09
Travis: You know, there hasn't been a lot of research on consciousness.
24:11
Travis: There's reasons why.
24:11
Travis: I mean they've used mushrooms and lsd on dolphins.
24:13
Travis: So I mean there's like broad research out there.
24:16
Travis: It's just people throw it out because of certain steps that were taken, especially in the 60s.
24:22
Travis: Certain steps that were taken to unlock this consciousness, using it on people as a way of mind control or using it on dolphins to try to unlock a connection with dolphins so we can understand their language.
24:36
Josh: Well, and it wasn't widely available to research because it was illegal, only certain when you're talking about research, that doesn't matter.
24:42
Travis: Within the government's research, it doesn't matter whether it's fucking illegal or not.
24:45
Travis: The reason weed is illegal is because it was a threat to the tree industry.
24:50
Travis: It had nothing to do with its benefits.
24:52
Josh: Yeah, but there was a lot of places that because it was illegal, they weren't allowed to have it, to research it, and the same with mushrooms.
24:59
Travis: Only certain classes of drugs are not like cocaine, heroin.
25:02
Travis: Those ones are not being looked into, but there's a ton of research into ketamine right now.
25:07
Travis: Psilocybin has been a part of a lot of research.
25:11
Travis: Lsd is still being researched out there.
25:13
Travis: But those like the big nasty ones, as they say, like Well, weed is in that same category, but it shouldn't be.
25:20
Josh: It shouldn't be no, no, well, and I know, with mushrooms, be no, no, well, and I know, with mushrooms people, from what I've heard I haven't done them people see a common thing of connection.
25:33
Josh: Everything's connected.
25:33
Josh: Sure, I wanted to mention with the ley lines.
25:34
Josh: Jordan was telling me that a lot of the wayfinders, when they were traveling on the open waters, Like Moana.
25:40
Josh: Yeah, like Moana, they always on every boat had someone that was connected to true North and they said it's kind of like an energy they just always could figure out.
25:51
Josh: Obviously they use the standard looking at the stars and stuff like that, but they always knew where North was and they could feel it in their soul, that kind of where I was talking about.
26:00
Josh: Like maybe we just kind of gotten disconnected a little bit, like if there was people that were disciplined in the old and ancient days to where they were purposely trying to ground themselves in an already grounded society that they could maybe tap in or know the world a little bit more than we could possibly know now.
26:20
Travis: I love that.
26:20
Travis: I think that's great.
26:21
Travis: That's a very romantic way to look at it, I think.
26:24
Josh: Yeah, and if they were able to maybe use ley lines that term didn't exist back then, but these energy.
26:32
Travis: No, because they didn't have English towns yet.
26:34
Josh: That's right.
26:34
Josh: If they were able to use these energy lines or channels and they were able to have someone on their ships that could maybe feel something or interpret it, and that's how they were able to travel and find things that would be interesting, Like how did they find Hawaii?
26:50
Josh: How did they find Easter Island in the middle of absolutely nowhere?
26:52
Josh: It doesn't make sense and this could potentially be an answer to that if there is a line that goes through Easter Island.
26:59
Travis: But I mean, how do animals get on these islands too?
27:02
Josh: Yeah, I mean magnets, man.
27:04
Josh: How do birds migrate?
27:06
Josh: They do the same migratory path.
27:08
Travis: How do birds suddenly appear every time you're near?
27:11
Josh: Josh, I mean, we already know that birds aren't real.
27:14
Josh: Yeah, no, they're not.
27:15
Travis: I love that subreddit so much.
27:16
Travis: It's so much fun yeah.
27:18
Josh: The cool thing about ley lines is there are no skeptic.
27:21
Travis: Everyone believes everyone believes and that just.
27:24
Travis: Are we into that portion of our show?
27:25
Travis: Are we getting into the skeptics' arguments against?
27:27
Josh: No, I don't Is there.
27:29
Josh: I don't think there is.
27:30
Travis: No, there can't be Closed book.
27:31
Travis: Okay, done for the show.
27:33
Travis: Now we do the quiz.
27:34
Josh: Yep, yeah.
27:35
Josh: It's very rare in this realm of knowledge and ideas that everyone agrees.
27:40
Josh: But hey, we'll take it Makes the show much easier.
27:43
Travis: What not having to?
27:45
Josh: No skeptics.
27:45
Josh: No, I don't have to defend anything.
27:47
Travis: Okay, so one of the interesting ones is this guy, Matt Parker.
27:52
Travis: He's a mathematician, to kind of use this logic that they connect and this is what I was talking about at the top of the show.
27:58
Travis: To illustrate the role of coincidence, he used the same ley line logic to draw mystical alignments between Woolworths, which are retail stores.
28:07
Travis: The result of that was a near perfect line highlighting how patterns can emerge even in unrelated data sets.
28:13
Josh: Yeah.
28:13
Travis: So was JG Woolworth, attuned and grounded.
28:16
Travis: Who knows, did he have someone take their shoes off and stand in the dirt and say, yep, this is the place.
28:21
Travis: Like what's his name, brigham Young, when he landed in Salt Lake?
28:24
Josh: Yeah, I think there's a little bit more planning and stuff like that with newer stuff.
28:31
Josh: I mean, we have streets that are already aligned, so if you have a Starbucks two miles away, I just think that's coincidence.
28:38
Travis: I mean it may be, because if we're going to make that connection, then why aren't all streets along ley lines or no streets along ley lines?
28:44
Travis: It's an easy answer to say like, well, we have streets that are on ley lines.
28:48
Travis: Well, yeah, of course, because there's fucking millions of streets, of course they're going to land on a ley line.
28:54
Josh: I'm not saying that streets are ley lines or anything.
28:56
Travis: I'm saying that we basically build in grids at this point in civilization, oh no no, we have towns and no, I mean sure, a square block, but like any road you travel just in our city, in our state, is wackadoo and doesn't make any sense.
29:15
Travis: That's why it's such an anomaly to go to somewhere in like Utah, where everything is on a grid and people say like, well, it's all on a grid, well, yeah, but that's not normal.
29:24
Travis: That's not like a normal way to design streets.
29:27
Travis: I mean, it should make, it makes sense.
29:29
Travis: It's an easy way to navigate through a city.
29:31
Travis: When you're like 200 West, 500 South or whatever, that is a great way to navigate.
29:37
Travis: But even Nampa is not that way.
29:39
Josh: Well, it's two grids, but there's a grid this way like just a normal square, and then they angle it, and there's another grid that is sideways to it but pushed up, and it is super confusing when you're around those parts.
29:53
Josh: Yeah, yeah, super confusing.
29:55
Josh: But what I'm saying is there's planning and zoning and different things like that in our society today, but back in the ancient times, you know, there's different cultures that weren't communicating on where they were building.
30:07
Josh: It wasn't planned out that these are all coincidentally lining up.
30:13
Travis: I think it's coincidence.
30:14
Travis: I mean, we have had roads going from all parts of Rome to China.
30:19
Travis: Do all those roads fall on ley lines?
30:21
Travis: No, they absolutely do not.
30:23
Josh: No, and I think, I definitely think, a lot of them are coincidences.
30:26
Josh: I do believe that there are some places that have different energies uh, electromagnetic, true energies this is so.
30:33
Travis: It's so funny to think that, like the spiritual connection people have to this, and then they're just like, well, how do we commemorate this?
30:40
Travis: I don't know, put down some fucking pavement.
30:42
Travis: Yeah, we're gonna walk across it and not have it be like a center of whatever, like grounding yourself or recharging your own.
30:50
Josh: You can't ground through asphalt you can't.
30:53
Travis: It's a barrier.
30:54
Travis: It's an energy barrier.
30:55
Travis: You know what you can ground through though what Beef?
30:57
Josh: I'll have to try that We'll just smear beef on the ground.
31:02
Travis: Ground beef.
31:05
Josh: Yeah, yeah.
31:06
Josh: So if these, I believe there are energy hotspots around the world.
31:11
Josh: I don't know if they're connected, if it is a coincidence, if you find other things in between places that have these energies, I just don't know.
31:20
Josh: It is possible.
31:21
Josh: But, like I said before, maybe it is and we just don't have the knowledge or the resources or the science to figure that.
31:29
Josh: Maybe someday we will, but there would take a lot of things to be able to make that happen, including a mental shift in everyone to be able to actually just even get funding for making devices to be able to measure.
31:43
Travis: Sure, we saw a couple of weeks ago men who stare at goats, like the funding that suddenly appeared and then disappeared for all that research.
31:50
Josh: Yeah.
31:50
Travis: Trying to kill a goat with your mind, yeah.
31:53
Josh: Yeah, like when you see faces in things.
31:56
Josh: What was that word?
31:58
Travis: Oh, pareidolia.
32:00
Josh: Yeah, where you basically find a pattern that's familiar.
32:03
Travis: Yeah.
32:03
Josh: And I think in tons of different aspects of life we try to find patterns.
32:08
Travis: You know we were talking about it earlier, just facing stuff up in your fridge, yeah, like how aesthetically pleasing that is and how it makes your brain some people, not all people- yeah.
32:17
Travis: And maybe this is just like a testament to the OCD OGs out there right Trying to make sense of Everything, Of everything, anything, anything in their environment.
32:28
Josh: Our behavior.
32:29
Josh: We try to make patterns in our behavior.
32:32
Travis: You have people that do not have OCD designing streets here in Nampa and then people that do, designing streets in all of Utah.
32:40
Travis: Right, yeah, maybe.
32:41
Josh: Or the people that made New York.
32:42
Josh: Wild Black it is so easy.
32:45
Travis: Yeah, I mean.
32:47
Josh: New York streets One, two, three, four, so easy.
32:49
Travis: There's a great Seinfeld where Kramer is at the corner of First and First and he's like where am I?
32:56
Travis: Am I at the nexus of the universe.
32:59
Travis: And you have that like right down the road.
33:00
Travis: We're 7th and 7th.
33:02
Josh: Yeah.
33:02
Travis: Intersect.
33:03
Travis: It's like 7th Street and 7th Avenue, and every time I drive through that intersection I say that to myself, I to that intersection, I say that to myself what's happening.
33:09
Travis: I'm at the nexus of the universe.
33:10
Travis: That's funny.
33:11
Josh: So I mean, I thought there was no skeptical anything.
33:17
Travis: Oh, you were.
33:17
Josh: So that's, it.
33:18
Travis: No, that's the one skeptic.
33:20
Travis: No, there's more.
33:20
Travis: You want me to pull from this?
33:23
Travis: Oh, this is.
33:23
Travis: You're queuing me up to read from a dossier because I am the natural skeptic on the show.
33:28
Travis: Okay, so sites that do align often come from vastly different historical periods, right?
33:34
Travis: So you get like the Byzantine and the great Roman empire all the way up to the Victorian era, right?
33:40
Travis: For example, a prehistoric mound might align with a medieval church and a Victorian monument, raising questions about whether the alignment was deliberate or coincidental.
33:47
Travis: How can you?
33:48
Travis: I mean, unless the person that's building is reacting to something from the past.
33:52
Travis: But more often than not, that may not.
33:54
Travis: Even when they're building a cathedral or some monument or whatever next to a historical mound that might be tied to Druidism, you know, you might not even know that that exists.
34:04
Travis: So what draws that building to be there?
34:07
Travis: Who knows?
34:07
Travis: Coincidence?
34:08
Travis: Very likely, I would probably say so.
34:12
Josh: I don't think they had zoning.
34:13
Josh: I don't think they put a ton of thought.
34:16
Josh: Some things they did.
34:17
Josh: They put a ridiculous amount of thought in.
34:19
Travis: I think you can look at a lot of these things as like, the same way like murderers look at their victims.
34:26
Travis: So what do they need?
34:26
Travis: They need an opportunity, right and motive.
34:30
Josh: Okay.
34:31
Travis: So when you're building these, that's opportunity.
34:33
Travis: That would include like resources and a need, like a population that's there and what's the other one?
34:40
Travis: Motive Motive, a reason to build something like a Woolworths, like a cathedral, like a triumphal arch, arctic triumph, you know, or whatever.
34:51
Josh: Yeah, like Triumphal Arch, arc de Triomphe you know, or whatever.
34:52
Josh: Yeah, I think that especially in the newer, like Victorian or Renaissance, I think they definitely had like city planning and zoning, just so that there was a flow.
35:00
Josh: Some cities didn't and you can tell, I mean, rome did yeah 100% and I think it was about flow and I don't think, especially when the city was already somewhat made, I don't think that they would purposely go and build something because of an ancient energy source.
35:16
Travis: I mean, is like that whole movement, the Feng Shui movement?
35:20
Travis: Is that also a ley line tie-in, where people walk into a room and say, like your energy's off, you need to have your couches facing this in order to have proper energy flow.
35:29
Travis: Are they tapping?
35:30
Josh: into the same thing.
35:31
Josh: I think that's more of the flow of the room, like that's kind of what they're talking about, like alignment of things, if you have a weird flow.
35:39
Travis: Yeah, but it's not like you're asking Andrew Lloyd Wright, is that his name?
35:42
Travis: Architectural guy.
35:45
Josh: I think I know what you're talking about Andrew Wright, something Okay.
35:49
Travis: It's not like they're asking him to come into a room.
35:51
Travis: It's usually like somebody separate that comes in and that's their specialty is energy flow and they're usually like a herbalist or like a spiritualist or they have some connection to that.
36:07
Travis: Right yeah, and they're all usually like late thirties, early forties white ladies talking to you about feng shui Of course, the people that know the most about it.
36:14
Josh: I've looked at different top-down looks of what a feng shui room would look like and then what one would not Like things that would Same room, same room, and just how you kind of align things.
36:24
Josh: And it is about max energy like absorption and flow.
36:28
Josh: Like, let's say you have a room and the walkway is right in between a couch and a chair, you're going to ruin that energy between if someone's sitting here and here and it would feel awkward for the people talking as well as awkward energy for the person walking through and they're going to disrupt energy.
36:47
Josh: So they're going to make it so that there is no energy disrupted in that flow and you can do that.
36:53
Josh: There's basically a spiritual science to it and it's probably a lot of math as well.
36:59
Josh: You know you can figure out the best way a room should be laid out basically with the least disruption of energy.
37:06
Josh: Okay, yeah, I went on a little rabbit trail with that one time.
37:09
Josh: It was very fascinating Math.
37:10
Josh: Yeah, I went on a little rabbit trail with that one time.
37:11
Travis: It was very fascinating.
37:12
Josh: Math, yeah, math.
37:12
Josh: You either get it or you don't.
37:14
Travis: Okay, so despite claims of magnetic or spiritual energy flowing along ley lines, Josh, thank you for queuing that up.
37:21
Travis: Yeah, Scientific instruments have not detected any consistent anomalies, meaning all the tools on the Earth they're not able to detect these ley lines.
37:31
Josh: It's not that they're not able to detect these ley lines, it's not that they're not able to detect them.
37:35
Travis: It's not consistent.
37:35
Travis: That's the exact same thing.
37:37
Josh: That is not being Well consistent means that they have been able to do it, and then maybe the next time they weren't able to.
37:41
Travis: That's coincidence.
37:42
Travis: That is 100% coincidence.
37:44
Travis: That's a theory that's not tested Like if ley lines existed, there would be definitive ways to test whether or not a ley line is there.
37:51
Travis: To say that you can't use scientific equipment to find a ley line or the findings are inconsistent that is not proof.
38:05
Josh: Well, what if the energy, as a metaphor, kind of breathes in and out, so sometimes you can and sometimes you can't, because energy can fluctuate?
38:09
Josh: And, like I said, what if we just don't have the right tools?
38:12
Josh: What if we're just using electrometers or whatever?
38:16
Travis: Sure, I mean you could say what if?
38:17
Travis: And then give yourself like a straw man argument for everything on this planet.
38:21
Josh: That's not what we're talking about?
38:22
Travis: We're talking about what it stands right now.
38:24
Travis: There is no scientific instrument on planet Earth, existing or otherwise, that can detect the existence of ley lines.
38:31
Travis: Right, right, so now it's just like a personal feeling.
38:34
Josh: Yeah.
38:34
Travis: So personal experiences of these sites may be shaped more by belief, environment or suggestion than by any measurable force.
38:40
Josh: Which I agree with Absolutely.
38:42
Josh: I think a lot of people go in kind of like they would in a church, like someone to go get healed by the pastor.
38:49
Josh: They would go to a site and they go in 100% believing.
38:54
Josh: You know they're flying because they believe.
38:57
Travis: Yeah, just go to the road, stand on the road like you do and get healed.
39:02
Josh: Yeah, if you believe that spot will do it, then do it.
39:06
Travis: Sure, yeah, if you believe that spot's going to do it, stand on the road, hopefully lightly trafficked road.
39:11
Travis: Yeah, is that what Frogger's about?
39:13
Travis: Is someone trying to draw energy from a ley line and they just made it into a video game?
39:17
Josh: Yeah.
39:18
Travis: Like why else is a frog on a road?
39:20
Josh: Well, we're not saying that roads are ley lines but yes, we are Not all of them.
39:24
Travis: Yes, we're saying that, okay.
39:25
Josh: There's invisible People pass connecting things.
39:27
Josh: That's what it's saying.
39:28
Josh: I don't know if people can feel the energy.
39:30
Josh: It seems like the vortexes are where the healing or the spiritual attributes are gained.
39:37
Travis: I wasn't saying that all roads are ley lines.
39:40
Travis: I was just pointing out that ley lines are, they do are on roads, yeah, right.
39:43
Travis: Or anywhere, yeah, they are anywhere, it's one line between one thing and another thing Totally arbitrary.
39:49
Josh: Yeah.
39:49
Travis: With no way to test it.
39:50
Josh: And they might not just be one thing.
39:52
Josh: There could be three or four things in between it that still make a straight line.
39:56
Travis: That aren't existing yet.
39:57
Josh: No, they exist.
39:58
Josh: I mean, there's ancient stone structures that are all in a line, in the same line, before a vortex, and they will, coincidentally, all align, and then when you get to a vortex, that is where kind of like a bigger I think that those are more astrologically aligned where they're using coordinates in the sky than whatever this is.
40:19
Josh: Yeah, I mean, we know for a fact that that is a thing for sure.
40:23
Josh: Some of the earliest known people were doing it and they would align with stars, with sunrises, they would align with eclipses.
40:32
Josh: That's what I was talking about earlier, where I didn't think that they thought very much about where they put it.
40:37
Josh: Sometimes it didn't matter, and then sometimes they overthought it and they made it absolutely mind-boggling, where it's like how did you make something that can align with?
40:48
Travis: everything, yeah.
40:49
Josh: Well, I think this is interesting, especially with the evolution kind of how the ley lines of just being a connection of sites to energy lines, to UFO hotspots, to healing areas and areas of spiritual learning and understanding, I mean I don't know exactly what it is there has been an evolution.
41:11
Josh: There's definitely a culture around it that love it and believe it.
41:15
Josh: For me I would say, as of right now, we have no proof, and I completely agree with that.
41:22
Josh: There is not proof.
41:23
Josh: I don't think that necessarily makes it so it doesn't exist.
41:27
Josh: Like I said, I believe in areas with higher energy.
41:29
Josh: So it doesn't exist.
41:29
Josh: Like I said, I believe in areas with higher energy.
41:31
Josh: It wouldn't blow me away if they were connected somehow.
41:36
Travis: Okay.
41:36
Travis: So I would say aliens.
41:41
Travis: Yes, so I don't.
41:47
Travis: Personally, I don't like us taking on a stance unless I know for a fact that it exists.
41:49
Travis: To say that ley lines exist, but we don't have the proof tells me that ley lines don't exist.
41:53
Travis: Now, if there is proof out there, then I will accept that as true.
41:58
Travis: But as it stands right now there's no proof, so no truth for me.
42:02
Josh: I totally get that you do believe in aliens, but there's no proof.
42:05
Travis: No, I believe you have a belief.
42:07
Travis: I do have a belief in aliens.
42:08
Travis: Yes, yes, you believe they are real, but there is no proof.
42:13
Travis: I believe that there is proof, though, because of how big our universe is, as it's ever expanding.
42:18
Travis: It is so big that, if we were to even try to think about how big it is, it would make our brain fall out of our face.
42:26
Travis: Yeah, right, and back in and, and then so to me that is enough proof that something else exists out there, because it's so big and so vast and there are so many opportunities out there for life to exist.
42:40
Josh: I just that is enough proof for me about with the amount of not proof, but the amount of things in the alien world right now on earth.
42:53
Josh: There's so many examples in situations that like that's enough proof for me that we have at least been in contact or they are here, including just that, it's uncomprehensible that they wouldn't exist because of how big, like what you said, how, how big everything is.
43:10
Josh: So if there is, and then all of the talk and instances and encounters, and I mean it just seems like enough is there for it to be real.
43:22
Josh: But there isn't definitive proof on anything, so it is all belief for sure.
43:27
Travis: Yep, it has to be.
43:28
Travis: But I'm also like a dumb idiot living in this world, you know, making my own way, creating my own belief system.
43:35
Travis: So that's just where my beliefs fall.
43:37
Josh: Yeah.
43:37
Travis: I am by no means an expert on anything.
43:39
Travis: Yeah, and that's it.
43:41
Travis: That's all I was going to say.
43:42
Josh: I didn't have any further to go.
43:44
Travis: I'm not an expert on anything.
43:45
Josh: Yeah, so are ley lines real.
43:47
Josh: That depends on what we define as real.
43:51
Travis: I say no, I don't believe they exist.
43:53
Travis: I like the idea of them in like fantasy and as a way to like draw power, but I don't I mean just based on what we talked about here on the show today.
44:02
Travis: No, there's nothing, nothing that we talked about that tells me that they exist or that there's any proof or even like point to them.
44:11
Josh: Yeah Well, if we're asking whether ley lines exist as scientifically measurable forces intentionally aligning things across time and culture, the answer right now is no.
44:24
Travis: Yep, that's it.
44:25
Travis: Yeah, it's a no for me dog right now, just based on the information that we have.
44:29
Josh: But what does real mean?
44:31
Josh: Oh God, because if we're asking whether the Leylands are real in the sense that they offer people meaning and connection, Okay, sure, I mean, yeah, then they're real.
44:41
Travis: If somebody wants to believe in something hard enough, then yes, then the Tooth Fairy is real and magic does exist in the world.
44:46
Travis: That's the whole reason for Santa Claus existing is wanting to have some elements of magic in the world.
44:49
Travis: That's like the whole reason for Santa Claus existing is wanting to have some elements of magic in this world.
44:53
Travis: And if that's what grown up adults want to believe, that's fine.
44:56
Travis: There's no harm in it.
44:57
Travis: It's not hurting anybody to believe in a ley line.
45:00
Travis: I'm just saying for me, personally, I don't believe in it.
45:02
Travis: I don't think the people that believe in ley lines have like some sort of mental deficiency or they can't really process certain physical things in their life.
45:12
Travis: I'm not saying that at all.
45:13
Travis: I'm just I just, for me, do not believe that they exist, given the details that we've talked about in this show.
45:20
Josh: Yeah, I'm not against it, I'm not for it.
45:23
Josh: Like you said, it doesn't matter.
45:24
Josh: It kind of reminds me of, like the great flood that's mentioned in all history.
45:28
Josh: We know there was a flood, but we didn't know that until the last hundred years, with science and data and being able to figure that out Because it appeared in tons of different cultures.
45:39
Josh: Just like this throughout history and generations, it's inspired a ton of people to explore, reflect and reimagine their entire relationship with the world.
45:48
Josh: Sure, so I don't know, it could be spiritual metaphors, it could be psychological projections, ancient wayfinder tools, moana, or simply just compelling evidence, but the truth, if there is one, is definitely open to interpretation.
46:03
Travis: When you put it in that context sure sure, and it's not hurting anybody.
46:06
Travis: There's nothing gained or lost with ley lines, other than like the spiritual benefit one might receive from walking along a ley line or visiting a ley line.
46:18
Travis: You know great.
46:19
Travis: More power to you.
46:20
Josh: Yeah, and as with a lot of mysteries, I think the most interesting part isn't if ley lines are real.
46:26
Josh: It's why we keep looking at them, which is a whole different field of science, but it is definitely extremely intriguing.
46:34
Josh: Well, I invite all of you to keep listening.
46:39
Travis: Are we wrapping up the show already?
46:40
Travis: Yeah, we still have a quiz.
46:42
Josh: Yeah, we'll get there.
46:42
Josh: So thank you guys for listening.
46:45
Josh: Definitely let us know what you think and you can also leave comments on sites like Spotify and you can send us fan mail through our link in the show notes and definitely rate us, because that'll kind of bump us up.
46:57
Josh: Let us know that you're enjoying us or not enjoying us.
47:01
Josh: Don't leave a review.
47:02
Josh: If it's mean, that's just mean.
47:03
Travis: Yeah, don't, I mean don't.
47:05
Josh: Like that hurts us more than it should and you don't have a reason to hurt us.
47:09
Travis: If you want to say something that's hurtful, send it to Josh's address, his home address, yeah.
47:16
Josh: In a package made out of newspaper clippings.
47:18
Josh: I wouldn't recommend doing that.
47:19
Josh: No, that That'll put you on a list.
47:22
Travis: But if you just want to vent and you want to send Josh some hateful email or regular mail, sorry, go ahead and do that, yeah, but just don't give us a negative review.
47:31
Josh: Yeah.
47:32
Travis: That's just hurtful.
47:32
Josh: Yeah, we're trying to build something.
47:34
Josh: Yeah, but we'd love to hear from you guys.
47:35
Josh: We, as of the time of this recording, have not received anything.
47:41
Josh: And we would love to, even if it's a high.
47:43
Josh: I'd love something.
47:44
Josh: I beg you.
47:46
Josh: No, I'm kidding, I don't beg Please, God Please.
47:53
Josh: And that leaves us to our end of show quiz.
47:55
Josh: So our quiz topic, which is the topic of the next episode, is close encounters.
48:03
Travis: Of a specific kind.
48:04
Josh: Is close encounters just like getting close to aliens?
48:08
Travis: Not too close, but close enough, close enough.
48:11
Josh: To being considered an encounter.
48:13
Travis: I guess, yeah, I don't know shit about this.
48:15
Josh: I don't either, I think.
48:17
Josh: I mean, unless there's something else, okay.
48:18
Josh: First question how many official types of close encounters are there?
48:22
Josh: Okay, Is it A3, b4, c5, or D6?
48:28
Josh: Oh, D6, huh.
48:30
Josh: I would imagine the closest encounter would be penetration.
48:35
Travis: How much closer do you need to get?
48:37
Josh: I mean, you're inside, they're inside.
48:39
Travis: I don't think you go inside an alien.
48:41
Travis: I think they go inside you.
48:42
Travis: It's like Yakov Smirnoff's joke On my ship alien goes inside you.
48:47
Josh: I'm not going to kink, shame.
48:51
Travis: I'm just saying that would be the encounter Caused Randy Quaid to crash his helicopter into a spaceship on Independence Day.
48:56
Josh: I would do the same if I was that upset Gone inside.
49:00
Josh: Okay, yeah, I'm going to say you said there's a fourth, so fifth, I'm going to say sixth.
49:05
Travis: I'm all in.
49:06
Josh: on sixth yeah, I'm going to say sixth, I don't know.
49:12
Josh: I'm glad there's not like 20.
49:13
Josh: That just makes me feel a little more comfortable spectrum.
49:14
Travis: Yeah, I think 20 would be great.
49:15
Travis: Six is just like oh shit, they're gonna get.
49:17
Travis: It goes from like one really benign encounter and then just to six and you're just like fucking.
49:23
Travis: It goes from like that to 100, really quick yeah, I want sub categories like I want like a hi, how are you?
49:31
Travis: I want to get to know the alien.
49:32
Travis: I wanted to maybe buy me a drink yeah, okay.
49:35
Josh: Next question who originally developed the close encounters classification system?
49:40
Josh: Okay, is it a carl sagan, b, j alan hynek, c jacques valet or d dr stephen greer?
49:49
Josh: These are all pretty prominent.
49:52
Travis: Are they Names?
49:53
Travis: Yeah, you know C, I do know C.
49:55
Travis: You know C very well.
49:57
Josh: I've seen Jacques Vallée in four or five different documentaries.
50:01
Josh: I think he actually was a consultant and had a big part of Project Blue Book.
50:05
Josh: Okay, so you know what's your answer.
50:07
Travis: I'm actually going to say Jacques Vallée.
50:09
Travis: Okay, I'm pretty sure it's not Carl Sagan, but I don't want to rule that out.
50:13
Travis: But I'm going to say Stephen Greer.
50:17
Travis: For some reason, there's something about the way his name lays there on that line I'm going to pick it.
50:21
Josh: Okay.
50:21
Josh: So next question what defines a close encounter of the first kind?
50:26
Josh: Is it A seeing a UFO on the ground, first kind so a seeing a ufo on the ground, b seeing a ufo in the sky, c being abducted by aliens or d witnessing crop circles appear?
50:38
Josh: I, I mean, I would imagine.
50:39
Josh: Unless it's reversed, I would imagine the first kind is like the lowest now you're talking about low in relation to the ground.
50:48
Josh: No, I'm saying that would be the most distant, that would be B.
50:51
Josh: Unless, number one is like winning, and it's the closest you can get.
50:57
Josh: But I imagine we wouldn't start at that.
51:01
Travis: What, seeing it on the ground.
51:02
Josh: No start at one being the closest, because we're going up, so I would say it's not going to be the closest, probably one of the more distant encounters.
51:12
Josh: So I would say, seeing a UFO in the sky, mm-hmm, that's what I think.
51:17
Travis: Same.
51:17
Travis: That's what I'm going to say.
51:18
Travis: Okay, I don't know what you were talking about with, like, when you say closest a lot, you're talking about proximity, like how close the thing is to you personally, because you could walk around the woods and say there was a clearing and see a ship there.
51:34
Josh: Well, I view it like if you and I had an encounter.
51:36
Josh: Yeah, when does it become an encounter?
51:39
Josh: It's probably when we see each other.
51:41
Josh: Huh, it could be any distance, even if we're really far away, it's still an encounter.
51:47
Travis: I always looked at it as like you get a visual of it.
51:50
Travis: So I'm probably wrong, but I would just say a visual.
51:55
Josh: It could be in the on the ground or in the sky yeah I had already locked in in the sky so I'm wondering if number two is communicate, then what the fuck is number three and four and five and six?
52:06
Josh: If there is that many, I don't's spooky, like you said, if it escalates that quickly, I don't know what else.
52:13
Josh: Yeah, that's weird.
52:15
Josh: Okay, next question A close encounter of the second kind includes what additional factor A a physical trace or environmental effect, b telepathic communication, c multiple witnesses or D sighting lasting longer than 30 minutes?
52:34
Josh: Okay, so that's a little more comforting.
52:36
Josh: That's hard.
52:39
Josh: I'm going to go kind of like what I was talking about.
52:41
Josh: I don't like the telepathic.
52:43
Josh: I thought it was just going to be communication.
52:45
Josh: It's a form of communication, it is.
52:47
Josh: I'm going to do that telepathic communication.
52:49
Josh: I don't like the telepathic part, like because I would just but maybe that's how aliens communicate Mm-hmm.
52:56
Travis: Um, I'm going to say a sighting lasting longer than 30 minutes.
52:58
Josh: Okay, that would be spooky too, actually.
53:00
Josh: Mm-hmm, all right.
53:02
Josh: Next question which of the following best describes a close encounter of the third kind?
53:07
Josh: Is of the third kind?
53:08
Josh: Is it A contact with military officials, b evidence of radiation, c sightings of being associated with the UFO, or D UFOs appearing on radar?
53:19
Josh: Oh man, maybe I was a little too rushed in my communication theory.
53:23
Travis: Too bad, can't go back.
53:24
Travis: You already locked it in.
53:25
Travis: You'd have to re-edit this whole segment.
53:28
Travis: Uh-oh, Josh is going to get to probe a lot faster than I'm going to get to probe.
53:33
Travis: I think you're right.
53:35
Josh: Well, this one's kind of throwing a wrench in my hole, Okay.
53:38
Josh: So I'm going to say I mean I could go with it.
53:42
Josh: Contact with military officials, that's what you're going to say.
53:44
Josh: I'm going to say that that's the closest to what I had in my mind.
53:48
Travis: To the narrative you've created, correct.
53:49
Josh: Yes.
53:50
Travis: I'm saying sightings of beings associated with the UFO.
53:52
Josh: Oh dang, I misread that in my mind.
53:55
Josh: I think I correctly read it out loud, but I didn't realize that there was beings.
53:59
Josh: I'm going to do sightings with beings.
54:01
Josh: I think that's the right answer Josh.
54:03
Josh: Yeah, okay.
54:04
Josh: Next question what characterizes a close encounter of the fourth kind?
54:09
Josh: Okay, so we know.
54:10
Josh: There's four At least, at least A a loss of time with no memory.
54:16
Josh: B radar detection of a UFO.
54:19
Josh: C the appearance of crop circles.
54:22
Josh: Or D alien abduction.
54:24
Josh: I mean, if I'm going to go on this probe trend, this quick probe trend, I'm going to go alien abduction.
54:31
Travis: I've already walked go.
54:32
Travis: Alien abduction.
54:32
Josh: I've already locked in alien abduction Really All right.
54:34
Josh: So we're kind of on the probe train together.
54:35
Travis: I actually went through the whole quiz and just locked in my answers.
54:38
Travis: What, yeah?
54:40
Josh: Okay, it's not a cheat?
54:41
Travis: No, I know, it's not a cheat.
54:42
Josh: I just thought we'd do this together.
54:43
Josh: I thought we were on the probe train.
54:45
Josh: Hop on another train and go.
54:48
Travis: I was.
54:48
Travis: You were, you were spending a lot of time talking about your reasoning and I was just like yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, okay.
54:54
Josh: All right.
54:55
Josh: Last question Close encounters of the fifth kind refers to what specific kind of interaction?
55:02
Josh: Okay, hostile alien actions A B Alien human, b alien-human hybridization.
55:10
Travis: That means boinking.
55:11
Travis: And then that thing coming to term and growing and growing and now you have a minotaur.
55:17
Josh: Yeah, that's how minotaurs came about.
55:19
Josh: That's creepy.
55:20
Travis: Yeah, the hybridization.
55:22
Josh: Yeah, I wasn't expecting that.
55:24
Josh: I was really looking for the probe, just like the Spanish Inquisition.
55:28
Travis: You can never expect it.
55:29
Josh: Okay, so we have A hostile alien actions, b alien-human hybridization yeah.
55:34
Josh: C human-initiated contact with extraterrestrials.
55:37
Josh: That sounds nice.
55:38
Travis: That does sound nice.
55:39
Travis: That sounds like we hold the cards.
55:41
Josh: And D the appearance of ancient alien artifacts.
55:44
Josh: Okay, I'm just going to skip over the hybridization.
55:50
Travis: Don't even like to think about it, no, I'm just going to skip over the hybridization.
55:51
Josh: Don't even like to think about it, no, I'm going to say hostile alien actions, because that could be a probe.
55:55
Travis: Okay, Got it.
55:56
Travis: Abduction probe.
55:57
Travis: That was my answer too.
55:58
Josh: Really Wow, yep, okay.
56:00
Josh: So there's five kinds that I know of.
56:02
Josh: There's a lot of like, unless there's more and we're going to learn.
56:05
Travis: There's a lot of movie tie tie-in trivia with this.
56:08
Josh: Oh good, yeah, That'll be good.
56:10
Josh: Have you seen those movies, mm-hmm.
56:11
Josh: Okay, so I'm going to submit my quiz and see the accuracy.
56:16
Travis: Oh, oh, oh terrible again, as always.
56:21
Josh: How many official types of Close Encounters are there?
56:23
Josh: I said six, I said six, you said six.
56:26
Josh: The answer is five.
56:27
Travis: Oh man, that's scary.
56:32
Josh: So there is five.
56:33
Josh: Oh man, that's scary.
56:33
Josh: So there is five.
56:34
Josh: Okay, who originally developed the close encounters classification system?
56:36
Josh: I said jacques valet.
56:37
Josh: You said stephen greer.
56:38
Travis: The right answer is jl and hynek, which I just.
56:42
Travis: I didn't even pay attention to that because I saw carl sagan and then josh picked the french guy, damn it okay, next one.
56:51
Josh: What defines a close encounter of the first kind?
56:53
Josh: I said seeing a UFO in the sky.
56:55
Josh: You did as well, right?
56:57
Travis: So we both got that one right.
56:58
Josh: Okay, next one A close encounter of the second kind includes what additional factor I said, telepathic communication.
57:05
Travis: Yeah, I said a sighting lasting longer than 30 minutes.
57:09
Josh: And the correct one was a physical trace or environmental effect.
57:12
Josh: Okay, which could be small or huge Depending.
57:17
Josh: I mean yeah, I mean environmental, I mean they could.
57:19
Travis: How do you know that that was an encounter and not just, like I don't know, someone walking around the woods with trash cans on their feet?
57:29
Josh: All right, Next one what best describes the third kind Close encounter?
57:33
Josh: I said sighting of beings associated with UFO.
57:36
Josh: I changed it.
57:37
Josh: You said the same.
57:38
Josh: That is correct.
57:39
Josh: You changed it.
57:40
Josh: I changed it because I was like oh, seeing the being, not just the craft that checks out.
57:46
Travis: I just wanted to be on record saying I got it right from the start.
57:50
Josh: Yeah, you did All right.
57:52
Josh: Next one what characterizes a close encounter of the fourth kind?
57:55
Josh: Alien abduction?
57:56
Josh: We both got that right.
57:58
Josh: We're looking All right, halfsies Okay.
58:01
Josh: Close encounter of the fifth kind.
58:02
Josh: First, to what specific kind of interaction I said hostile alien actions.
58:08
Travis: I said hostile alien, you said hostile Yep.
58:10
Josh: Okay, it was actually human-initiated contact with extraterrestrials.
58:13
Josh: The nice one, the nice, yeah, that's the one I well, it's kind of like the movie shit, I just forgot it where they go to the ship and she's trying to communicate with them, like, and the whole thing is about trying to learn their language.
58:27
Josh: Arrival, arrival.
58:28
Travis: Yeah.
58:29
Josh: Yeah, it's kind of like that.
58:30
Travis: I mean they appear but then we go to them.
58:32
Travis: Yeah, we send a linguist and yeah, yeah.
58:35
Travis: Amy Adams.
58:36
Josh: That was a great movie, very good, good book, all right.
58:42
Josh: Well, I have a lot to learn.
58:43
Josh: I'm really curious on where this is going to go and what information is out there of each of these.
58:45
Travis: I'm terrified.
58:46
Travis: This is uh.
58:47
Travis: This is my nightmare.
58:49
Josh: Yeah, like, and so if a fifth exists, does that mean that we have had human?
58:54
Josh: I don't know.
58:55
Josh: I'm really excited.
58:57
Travis: Well, they have to categorize it, I guess, and so they're like let's round it out at five and we'll just come up with criteria for each five.
59:03
Travis: Five's a nice easy number.
59:05
Josh: So eventually the hybridization would be a number at some point.
59:08
Travis: Yeah, I mean, if you follow, if we keep going, if you follow, like what humanity has done since the dawn of civilization, is we fuck everything?
59:17
Travis: Can I kill it or can I fuck it?
59:19
Josh: Yeah Doesn't matter, yep Doesn't matter.
59:21
Josh: Yeah, well, sweet, I'm excited, that's gonna be a good one.
59:24
Travis: Yeah.
59:24
Josh: Thanks for listening again.
59:26
Josh: Like we said, get a hold of us, let us know your answers.
59:29
Josh: If you did worse than us, we'd love to feel better about ourselves.
59:32
Travis: Yeah, yeah, I mean chances are, though you're probably going to lie about the answers and say you got 100%.
59:38
Travis: Probably.
59:39
Josh: Well, thanks for listening and we'll catch you on this next episode about Close Encounters.
59:44
Travis: All right, catch you on the flip-a-dee-flop.
59:46
Josh: All right, bye, bye.