Latest / Pod Therapy / #423: Therapy vs ICE, Anxiety Heart Rate, Father's End of Life

Transcript

#423: Therapy vs ICE, Anxiety Heart Rate, Father's End of Life · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that I'm not looking and this will be a
• 0:01
  Speaker 1: nice look back in a couple of years when he
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: hates you. Yeah, of course you'll be like, oh, don't
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: you remember that one time I.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Did for you was so nice?
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: You think that there's nothing here to have a relationship.
• 0:17
  Speaker 3: Yes, right over there the whole time for.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Vegas. That this is pop therapy, real people, real problems,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and real therapists. You can submit your questions anonymously at
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: pod therapy dot net or email us at pop therapy
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: guys at gmail dot com. And now broadcasting from that
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: big studio. That's Jim.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: That's what the pod therapy.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I don't believe that that was well, that was Nick
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: not here today. Yeah, unfortunately Jacob had to be predisposed,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: which is why Nick's here and Nick is similar. No, Nick,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you were just telling us all your thoughts on the
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: nineteen nineties La riot.
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: I have so many I have so many thoughts. I
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: have so many thoughts.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, just really just my thoughts on the riot. So
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Rodney King as a person, first, not again, not again.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: I feel like it was already a little much, and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: I'm disappointed in you as a person. I'm startled to
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: be Frank, I'm just just so so Nick is not
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: with us today. We are unregulated on supervised. And this
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: is our second episode recording in a day because we
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: had to double up.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: Because it's super Bowl weekend.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think as folks are listening to this, I
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: want to say that the super Bowl is a weekend.
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: Well, now the super Bowl has happened.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: It happened.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so congratulations, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think you're right
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: so looking yeah, I don't. I don't do we covered
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: in the Patreon. I do not know how it works.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: It was not a pre calcul I don't know have
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: a predictable the future like an oracle. Whitney over here,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: got it? What a nerd? I had no idea that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: So who do you who won the super Bowl? All right,
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you right now. I think it's Seahawks
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: by a landslide.
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  Speaker 4: I think I'm winning in our little bracket thing, right,
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  Speaker 4: let me go check.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: In the pot therapy bracket, I had the Texas or
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: I think I had like the Niners.
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  Speaker 4: Either way, I'm winning.
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  Speaker 2: I don't know if.
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  Speaker 1: Anybody predicted that, So I I think I might be
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: with you. I think the Seahawks pretty I feel like
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  Speaker 1: they might have had a good day a couple of
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: days ago. Yeah, the last postseason games, they've been lightened
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: fools up. Yeah, where the idea that Sam Darnold could
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: conceivably be the Super Bowl MVP? Good for him after
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: looking like a bust being taken at number three by
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: the Jets. It just shows what a terrible organization the
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: New York Jets are. What an indictment like, that's bad
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: guys and Jets.
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  Speaker 3: If you're listening, and I know you.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: Are, you listen to pot therapy, you're not better than this. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: do better, Jets, do better for that quarterback to get
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  Speaker 1: handed from team team to team and just end up
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: on the Seahawks and they'll take them to the super Bowls.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: It looks good. Month in Minnesota. He looked great and
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: looked at Minnesota let him go. They didn't want to
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  Speaker 1: keep him.
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  Speaker 3: So I don't know.
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  Speaker 4: So you're really good and all I did I pick
• 3:13
  Speaker 4: Tholos in thirty seconds because you're like, y'all have to
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  Speaker 4: pick it now or al time?
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  Speaker 1: Still?
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  Speaker 3: Are you still alive in our bracket?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah?
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  Speaker 5: Look at me? The fuck I chose I'm the number
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  Speaker 5: one person in the bracket.
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  Speaker 2: It's because of my team.
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  Speaker 1: Seems called better than Jim, yes, bitch and living up
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  Speaker 1: to its head, and I.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: Am Jay's winning bracket was there, so was like, well,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: I got to be better than Jim.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Whitney alone has predicted the Seahawks at all, So
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  Speaker 1: I think it's a solid bet. I like that for you, Whitney.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good move. And as people are
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: listening to this, they can judge us harshly, knowing that
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: this is airing on the twelfth, I think if you
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: are a regular the eleventh, if you nasty, but yeah,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: so definitely check us out Patreon dot com slash therapy.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: You can hear about Jim accomplishing a very magnificant forty
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: by forty items and proud of myself. So as of
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: as of this release, it should have been accomplished. So
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: barring any terrible things, uh, I'm yeah, yeah exactly, So
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: we'll see if I make it. But Patreon dot com
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: slash therapy can hear all about my fun adventure. We've
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: got some heavy questions in today's show without Nick here
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: to supervise us, we've got a fun one for you.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So we're launching it off with a question that we
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: teased last week because we knew we were recording a
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: double ta.
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  Speaker 3: We knew it was going to be here therapy.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I think, why, I don't understand you're the one making
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: it weird therapy in the age of Maga and ice.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Here we go, heypod therapy. Folks, Anna the my athlete here.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm just so proud of Anna for being,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: you know, just being out as a biathlete, just being proud,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: being a proud you a person. I'm so proud of
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: you and of the biathlete here. He has said he
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: needed some questions, and I do have some that I've
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: been wanting to hear your perspectives on. For context, I
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: spent the first eighteen years of my life growing up
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: just outside of Minneapolis. From that statement alone, you could
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: probably see where this is heading, unless, of course, you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: have been cast away on a desert island and no
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: social media organis access the past few weeks.
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  Speaker 3: What has been happening in my home.
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  Speaker 1: State is absolutely atrocious. I'm watching my friends and family
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  Speaker 1: risk their health and their lives resisting a hostile occupation
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  Speaker 1: that is threatening the safety, security, and justice of everyone
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: in the name of terrorizing people who are not white
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: or who are actively resisting the harm and terror Ice
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  Speaker 1: is causing. I have direct contact with people in Minneapolis,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and I want to tell you things that are happening
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  Speaker 1: there because a lot of it isn't being fully covered
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: by the media. People are a rationing insulin medication because
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: they're too afraid to fill prescriptions. Neighbors are taking shifts
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: monitoring Ice and alerting their communities. Volunteers are buying groceries
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: for undocumented residents. Those volunteers are advised to write residence
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: addresses on pieces of paper instead of their phones, so
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: they can swallow it in case they are confronted by Ice.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: The woman who witnessed the murder of alex Pretty is
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  Speaker 1: too afraid to go home because witnesses to ICE's atrocities
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  Speaker 1: have been detained and whisked away to unknown locations, subjected
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: to unknown tortures. Kids are either staying home or relying
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: on volunteer escorts to be able to attend school. Preschool
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: aged children are being sent to detention centers. Imagine being
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: a teacher trying to explain to a class of kindergarteners
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: what happened to their missing friend. No words I can
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  Speaker 1: say fully encapsulate the extent to which this occupation has
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  Speaker 1: devastated the Minnesota community, But I hope those examples paint
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: somewhat a picture. I've watched the videos of the murders
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: of both Renee Good and Alex Pretti. It is objectively
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  Speaker 1: true that they were peaceful protesters and no law enforcement
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: agent was in any real danger. None of Renee or
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Alex's actions warranted the death penalty. The lies and propaganda
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: coming from the federal government in response to their killings,
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  Speaker 1: and the federal government's obstruction of independent, state led investigations
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  Speaker 1: into the murders is horrifying. The Orwell quote from the
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  Speaker 1: book nineteen eighty four rings true. Quote the Party told
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears.
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  Speaker 1: It was their final, most essential command end quote. We
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: all read the books, we all went to history class.
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  Speaker 1: We watched as our laws and institutions have been dismantled
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  Speaker 1: one by one to the point of an untrained police
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  Speaker 1: state terrorizing its citizens. Remember how these violations of our
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: civil rights are funded through cuts to our health care
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: and social services. So with all that context comes my questions,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: how does one reconcile living in society that has enabled
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: these atrocities to get to this point. This did not
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: happen overnight. Recall Donald Trump almost ten years ago saying, quote,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters end quote.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: In a sense, this prophecy has arrived. We've watched over
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the past decade as our rights slowly eroded and the
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: separation of powers of the federal government dissolved, consolidated in
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: the White House. Now Trump is suggesting there shouldn't even
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: be a next election at this point. I suggest we
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: take that threat very seriously, and yet many people in
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: our lives continue to support Donald Trump and his administration.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Even this podcast encouraged listeners to stick with their MAGA therapists, saying,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: quote it's just politics end quote. While many of us
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: mourned the last election, we were instructed that quote. There
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: may be a cognitive distortion and we're reaching catastrophic conclusions
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that don't necessarily fit evidence. End quote. With that in mind,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: I ask each of you, has your stance changed. I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: sincerely hope it has. While I recognize your desire to
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: reduce panic and maintain a more politically neutral stance with
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the podcast. I hope that you now see that this
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: is far beyond a difference in politics. These differences lie
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: in morals and how people fundamentally believe other humans should
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: be treated, and the question of whether all people deserve
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: civil rights. As therapists helping individuals of all spectrums of
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: identity process trauma, I hope you feel confident taking a
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: f firm stance against the systems that are actively inducing
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: that trauma. The people of Minnesota are hurting. I am hurting.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: We grieve the lives lost at the hands of Ice,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: many of whom are unknown. How does one process these
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: moral injuries? I hope this question is one you can
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: take some time to explore on the podcast. Thank you,
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: Signed Anna French, Team USA by athlete proudly from the
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: great state of Minnesota. Thanks for writing an Anna. Today's
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: episode is brought to you by avoiding the fucking problem,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: hoping for.
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: The best and come on, come on, Anna, that was
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: funny to come on. You know that was funny.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Was honestly a move. You know it was funny, Anna,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: come on, So okay, setting the stage. It was a
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: good letter that was really what excellent letter, really well written,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: and I were siate the extra lines there. Anna and
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I read it entirely, even though it's a little bit longer,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: because I appreciate you setting a stage to say, look,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: I don't want you guys to minimize this. I also
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: want to speak as somebody who considers himself a local
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: who has access to information that may not be public.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: This needs to be seen as a whoror. And in
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: the last episode I teased and is true that Whitney
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and I a year ago when Donald Trump got elected,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: we went on MPR and a local MPR and discussed
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: what we are doing as therapists to try to help
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: humans adapt because there was a lot of anxiety, There
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: was a lot of fear, A lot of disenfranchised populations
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: were very, very frightened. And it was tough because at
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: that point Whitney and I were looking at it and saying, okay,
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: we've been through a Trump administration. It was rough. There
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: was a pandemic. At the end, a lot of things
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: got crazy. Here we are we're going again. And I think,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: as you mentioned, Anna and gave us some credit for
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: our responsibility is generally to try to bring calm to
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: really difficult situations. We are not sociologists, we are not
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: political prophesires. We don't know what's going to happen. We're
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: not here to tell people how to think, or how
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: to work as a team to overthrow a government, or
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: what to do for their own safety or their own protection.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: We're here to deal with people's inner worlds. And a
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: year ago we were talking to a very frightened population
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and saying, Okay, our job is to help you at
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: least hold the right tools to right size the danger.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I hope that never came off. And I'm speaking for
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: myself and when y I'll let you speak for you.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: But like for me, I hope that never came off
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: as being dismissive of the danger. I don't think that's
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: ever been my stance. I want your house to have
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: smoke alarms. I want smoke alarms because they're necessary to
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: know when your house is on fire. I don't want
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: your smoke alarms to go off when you're making toast,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: when you're baking bread or cookies. I don't want us
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: to have hypersensitive smoke alarms that misperceive the reality of danger,
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: because that's not helpful to you. That doesn't protect you
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: from a house fire. With Trump, there was a lot
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: of smoke in the beginning where we didn't know if
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: the fire was really going to show up. Twelve months later,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: thirteen months later, as you're describing.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Showing up.
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: There have been some fires. And I don't want us
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: to be held to what we said a year ago,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: trying to bring calm and like useful therapeutic techniques to
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: come off as dismissive. And we know Anna, she's been
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: on the show, she's been a front of the show
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: for years. We know that she gives us the benefit
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: of the doubt of mine. This is a great question,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: it's a really honest question. So anybody out there, I
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: don't want you to misperceive Anna as being antagonistic, not
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: at all. Anne has been a long term front of
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the show's conversation. It's a it's a fair and honest
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: conversation from a human who is saying, I am frightened
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and I look to y'all, and y'all have once tried
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: to comfort me and call me down. Sure, And I
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: think she's saying the tools you gave me may not work.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: At this point. You're telling me to wave a towel
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: in front of the smoke alarm to clear it out.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: But the kitchen's on fire yet, And I think she's asking, do.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Y'all see that at this point? Like where are we at?
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: The question itself is a tad unfair go on, because
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: is you are assuming a level of knowledge before events happened.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: Okay, sure, yeah, we didn't know, that's it.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can say that we were dismissive or that
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: we were not as reactionary because you look back on
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: it now and you say, well, I said all these
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: things were going to happen, and that's what it feels like.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: It feels like you say, well, I sounded the alarm
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: bells when this guy got elected, right, and not everyone
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: listened to those alarm bells, And now look at us. Sure, yeah,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I see your point.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: That's not exactly genuine.
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is, hey, let's be careful.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Hindsight's twenty twenty of course, And like when you're when
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: in January of twenty twenty five, when people are making
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: extraordinary claims and saying we're going to see unprecedented violation
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: the constitution, precedented moves against the public, the The default
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: response probably is responsibly to say hold on, but also
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: likely January of twenty five, because where did you say.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: You said that we were making the effort to calm folks,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: to calm folks down. Yeah, you know, I only to
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: speak for everybody else. I wasn't okay. Uh, My effort
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: was not to calm things down. My effort was to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: look at things rationally, the same way it always is, sure,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and so we look at it. We we we take
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: it in.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: No one said that.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: No one on this show said that the new Trump
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: administration was going to be pleasant. I did I remember
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: celebrating it, you know, I think I was. I'm wide
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: I had forgotten about that, and I'm and we never
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: talked about the fact that I.
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: Don't know Whitney's new hair colors. Yeah, I don't know.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: I think he just doesn't see color, which, honestly, I
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: just don't take your head. You're the progressive man looking
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: at us. That's what it is. Fairly aware we are here, I.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: Think is what he's from.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Annoyed, Just why are still doing this show?
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: So Whenney, this is a good point. I appreciate what
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Jacob's offering. There is just to say, hey, let's contextualize
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: it for the generals may not be able to remember
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: all this. But but okay, but and his impression is
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: there was a time when y'all were telling us don't overreact. Okay,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: it's been a year later, what's your take on it now?
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I would still say, don't overreact to things. Okay, you
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: still shouldn't you should you shouldn't want to overreact things.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Let's react to the things that are that are happening. Sure,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: and let's and they're they're shitty, that's fair. And Anna
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: is saying, here's how shitty it is. What do you
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: therapists think we should be doing to react to this?
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so I would say I feel like what Jacob's saying.
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: Allthough I agree with it, I think what a lot
• 16:49
  Speaker 4: of people will push back on.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: I see this a lot.
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: Maybe I'm online too much, but I see this a
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: lot on social media where if like a Maga Parson
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: comes back and says, hey, I didn't know this was
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: gonna like the ice Flet's say someone does step back.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: A lot of times in commons, people like you knew
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: he said he was going to do this, and you
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: still voted, Yeah, we tried to warn you you.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: Didn't have to.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Though. It's tough holding people's feet to the fire on that.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So because he's also said a lot of other ship.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he said we were going to be at Mars.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: He says he's gonna take Greenland's right, And there's like
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: this like trope about like Trump always chickens out because
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: he's always threatening to do all sorts of shit. He
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: doesn't actually do.
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: The taco thing.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yoh yeah, yeah, No, Mike, my honest viewpoint on
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Trump is always until he actually starts to do something right,
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I can only be so worried about that thing. I
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: can only be so worried about the nonsense that he's.
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: Saying all the time.
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: Sure, he's an idiot. He says shit, that's what he
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: that's what he does. I just I can't let myself
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: be worried about that all the time. Yeah, well, when
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: things happened, that's different. Well, and going back in history,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: by the way, you know, one of the things that
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I've strong I've struggled with, I think is his original
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: campaign when he beat Hillary. A lot of it was
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: him saying just huge things like I am going to
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: put Hillary Clinton in jail on day one, Yes, and
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: like things that at the time, I thought, this is
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: designed to capture a news cycle, and like so much
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: of what he says never comes to pass, right, and
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: so it's really hard. And then like Pope paid for
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that wall, right, or like if you remember the midterms
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: of his first election, he said we are being invaded
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: by a caravan of immigrants coming up from the middle
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: and like he deployed the military to the wall, or
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: more recently, let's let's flip it around and say something
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: that he said that was a little nicer at least
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: for some people, which was, Hey, we're going to send
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: out checks. We're gonna we're going to send out these
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: checks because you know, we're saving these we got the tariff,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: we got the tariffs coming in, so we're going to
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: send out checks to everybody. Right. What everybody had already
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: forgotten at that point is a few months prior to that,
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: he had said we're going to send out six thousand
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: dollars checks to everybody from the doze savings. Right, he
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: had already said the same thing, Yeah, but now it's
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: for tariff.
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: But now it's for tariff's it's just a different check.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: And you go like, all right, I guess if a
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: check shows up in the mail and it clears, I
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: guess I'll pay attention to him saying that he's gonna
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: sit out checks so whenever until that check shows up, though, right,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: I just can't pay attention to your point, Whitney. I
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: think what you started this part of it was you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: saying it's tough sometimes because people will say, oh, now
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: you change your mind because of what you see in Minnesota,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: but you should have seen this twelve months ago or
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: two or one term ago. But I think what Jacob
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: and I are defending on there is like, well, yeah,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: but that's come on, like that's he's he's machine guns
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: a thousand statements and then ten of them turn out
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to have been real, and people go, we'll see and
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: it's like yeah, like yes, five percent of what he
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: says never comes to pass. Yeah, but and plus we
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: already agreed like, yes, he's an asshole, Yes he's an idiot.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I for one support the president, but I see where
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: you're going. I consider myself a patriot. So yeah, mister Trump,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: if you're listening, and the day you come down with
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: ice to Las Vegas, Jim Job and your friend. Okay,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: we get along.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: This same thing with the with the AI s.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Yes, I constantly want the aid. I welcome their dominion.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be fine.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: No, I just kind of wanted to to put that
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: out there because I think that is a perspective that
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: some people take on.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So I'm not saying necessarily.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: That I agree with all of that, but I do
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: think that that is a hard to grapple with. When
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: people see things happening, they're like, well, he did say this,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: and it's following through, so they don't give a lot
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: of space for like, well, we didn't know he was
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: going it was going to happen.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: And by the way, wouldn't you say those things. You
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: have the advantage of being correct.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I know, he say so much.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I warned you that this was going to happen, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: now this is happening, and it's just true.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: It's kind of hard to argue with that statement.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I know when Anna says like, hey, I sounded those
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: alarm bells and hey pod therapy, y'all, y'all didn't exactly
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: brush it off, but you kind of brushed it off
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: and it turns out I was right. Now, what like,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: that's that's not invalid.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: So, like, thinking back to Trump getting re elected and
• 21:08
  Speaker 4: clients I was working with at the time, the stance
• 21:11
  Speaker 4: I took was definitely trying to mitigate stress in a
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: way that was living in the present kind of what
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: Jim was saying, where it's like, hey, and honestly you too, Jacob,
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: where it's like, let me think rationally about this, like
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: what is actually happening now he's saying these things. I
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: would imagine he's saying those things for the purpose of
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: fucking with people, Like that is Trump's angle.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he does or he doesn't, but he knows that.
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: Emotion gains control, right all right, I am assuming that
• 21:42
  Speaker 4: about him. This is my perspective or my take on it.
• 21:45
  Speaker 4: So people, yeah, it seems like that to me. So
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: this is just my opinion. But I feel like it's
• 21:52
  Speaker 4: giving him that control when at the time when it's like,
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: all right, I'm gonna say, yeah, the shotgun of uh,
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: you know, uh, a million different things being thrown out there,
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: and I'm really going to work you up and we'll
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: see what sticks or we'll see what I actually end
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: up doing.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Like it's just his thought flow.
• 22:08
  Speaker 4: It's it's not personal or like not specific and he's
• 22:11
  Speaker 4: just trying to rile up people to gain control. So
• 22:16
  Speaker 4: that was my perspective at the time, and uh so
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: we would definitely try and mitigate that. But also I
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: very much, especially working with clients in Oregon who tend
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: to be really progressive and want to forget your licensed
• 22:27
  Speaker 4: organ So I have probably almost half my clients.
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: She togon for years.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah, half you just about It's like a surprising amount. Yeah, well, yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: I think there's not a shortage of therapists.
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: I think they just.
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah anyway, So, uh yeah, I work with a lot
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: of people in organ and they want to get involved.
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: A lot of them are in the Portland area, and
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: so I feel like it was really good conversations there
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: where we work together to try and identify how to
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: get involved. They would have family members who are trans
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: That was big thing at the time, like trans gender identities,
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: things like that, that we're being targeted, especially in the beginning,
• 23:08
  Speaker 4: and so we talked about what are community based organizations
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: you can connect with and what can you do that
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: you feel comfortable with to not compromise your livelihood because
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: they might be lower income and like you know, living
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: pretty close to paycheck to paycheck, you know, trying to
• 23:24
  Speaker 4: get by since I do take insurance gym and you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 4: I'm not out of pocket, so for better or worse.
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: But yeah, these clients would be like, I'm I wish
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: I could do more, but this is what I what
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: I can do, and I would really focus on that
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: with them because I do want movement, I do want
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: things to be done, and with the new very scary
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: things coming out of Minnesota right now, like I think
• 23:50
  Speaker 4: it's important to get involved and it definitely does spark
• 23:54
  Speaker 4: an internal stress, rage, desire, whatever you want to call it,
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: with myself, because it's feeling more real, more quickly than ever.
• 24:04
  Speaker 4: And maybe that's from a place of privilege. I'm I'm
• 24:06
  Speaker 4: aware of that and I will accept that that it
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: was scary before. For others, it feels really real. It's
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: covering all grounds now, that's like no one's safe, you know, and.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Very much smacks of like that old quote you know
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: from Nazi Germany, which is like, oh, at first they
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: came from the Gypsies, but like I wasn't a gypsy,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: and like one by one they can for the Jews.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: I wasn't a Jew, guilty of it, and then I
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: think there are Americans right now that are like, oh,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: I just watched a white mom get shot in her
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: minivan in the face. And I watched a white male
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: nurse get you know, pumped in the chest and caring
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: legally yeah, and then that also woke up the NRA
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden. The NRA was like, uh, what,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: like because he's legally carrying a gun that misses us
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: off and a lot of like gun you know. Well,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: several people, including Trump said that, like, oh, and he
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: shouldn't have been holding the game.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: I just watched the police chief if.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: They guy, the Patel guytel yeah, like he said something
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: about like then at these protests, you're gonna get and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the n was.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Like, yeah, good, okay.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: But this goes back to your point that like the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: populations that may have felt quite insulated from all this
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: and not targeted or suddenly watching people that look just
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: like them, and I believe just like them getting you know,
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: shot by the federal government.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: It's it's just well, I truly watch it, and I
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: just get so sad it is.
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: But I think what sparked for like a specific moment
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: for me was a lady filming on her phone or
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: videoing on her phone. A door dash driver who was
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: delivering her her order and Ice was following her.
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: So when she pulled up, she ran into the woman's house.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And so the.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: Woman is closing her door immediately and the one the
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: door dasher is like in her basement like she just
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: ran inside, and the lady's like, uh, what's going on.
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: So she's figuring out what's happening, and Ice is like outside,
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: like let us in.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: We have a warrant.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: She's holding up the girl the like dasher's I d like,
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: this is her ID, she's legal. And she called the
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: police to say like, hey, do I have to let
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: them in? Like what's the deal here? Like can I
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: just leave this door shit? And the police told her
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: you need to let them in if they have the
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: warrant all this, and part of me said there and
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: this woman had like children in her home, so like
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: I do not. It was so sad to watch. I'm
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: not judging anything. You have to figure those things out.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: And that was on the fly. She just placed the
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: door dashorder like not knowing what was gonna happen next.
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: But I thought was like I don't give two fucks.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: I was like, I don't have kids in my house.
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: I was like, Peter, and I will be fine. Is whatever, Like,
• 26:33
  Speaker 4: you are not coming in my house without warrant. You're
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: gonna have to bust the door down. I don't give
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: a fuck. Take me to jail because I don't have that.
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: Like I wouldn't expect that of you, Jim. You have
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: different circumstances. But I was just like, I think in
• 26:44
  Speaker 4: that moment, I was like, yeah, that's that's where I
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: stand personally, because it's outrageous.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: This is out fucking.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: Rachel amazing that we as Americans are being put in up.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: What the fuck like?
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: So I think that you know.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: This.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: And one thing, I hope we don't talk a lot
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: of politics to the show. Obviously, it's just not the design.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: There's so many other shows that do that, and that's fine.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: We reference it because people write in about it.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: We're aware of it.
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: We're aware, and like I think we nod to it.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: As a therapist, Like sometimes I wonder what would it
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: have been like to be a therapist in Nazi Germany?
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: And I think you would be trying your best, like
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: every other healthcare provider, to take care of the human
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: in front of you based on what you're seeing, and
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: if they were like, should I abandon my home country
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: and run across the ocean to a whole nother life.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Do you think things are going to get crazy insane
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: here and fascist? And do you think that the chancellor
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: is going to depose the the you know, the leader,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: the king of our country and like take over everything.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Do you think this Nazi party that only has one
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: third of the entire parliament is going to seize power
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: through like this incredible false flag operation, like take us
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: into a world war. No therapists should be able to
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: know any of them. We're just going to be meeting
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: with you and hearing you talk about extraordinary reactions to
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: potentially extraordinary circumstances. And I think we're always going to
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: be biased toward moderation, and we probably should be. But
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: like that's not to deprive you of your agency or
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: say that you can't make decisions that make sense for
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: your family or whatever you've got to do. Ultimately, you've
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: got to do that. Our only job is to try
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: to give you the clearest possible mind to make that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: decision when you do well. And also, but we're talking
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: on this show, we're talking through a very specific lens,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and that lens is how do you have a happier
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: and healthier and more productive life than you may be
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: having now?
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: Or that sounds very pitchy.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: But I mean it to be, like, you know, if
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you if you want to work on things, these are
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: some tools to work on things. That's all I'm saying
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: with that's the That is the lens that we're going
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: to talk about things through on this show. I mean, yeah,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: if you want to go down the I mean I've
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: met Donald Trump.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I've met Donald Trump personally.
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: If you want to go true like political things, I
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: guess I can go through political things.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: But that's just not what we're doing here. Well, it
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: just doesn't.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know that we're a great source of value
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: for that. And every person that writes into our show
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and all the challenges that they face are often externally motivated.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: People are having a bad marriage, they are being let
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: go from their job, they are experiencing financial distress, they
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: are experiencing a chronic illness, and like we try to
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: be very careful never to minimize that reality, the objective
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: reality of a dangerous external circumstance. We try to just
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: have people thinking as clearly as we can help them think,
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: so they can manage their trigger as best as they can.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And in reality, yes, the Trump administration is an unusual administration.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: They're very honest about that. They openly you hold that
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: out as something of honor. A lot of other people
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: find that to be very distressing. What's going on in
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Minnesota is very very frightening for Minnesotans and for so
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: many people. I'd hope that we never come off as
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: being dismissive of that, any more than we come off
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: as being dismissive when a writer says that they're sure
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: that their spouse is bad for them, or they lost
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: their job or something scary like. We always want to
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: respect the external thing that's bothering the person. But all
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: we can offer is therapists, I think, is just to
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: stand beside them and say, look, it's not our job
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: to like tell you what the best course of action
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: is for you financially, are the best course for you legally,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: or what's safe for you or your family or what?
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: How did you're facing a real horror in your community.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: We can acknowledge that with you and hold space for
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you in that and there's something therapeutically happening in that conversation.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: It's just hard to broadcast that over a podcast and
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: have a lot of value.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Here is go ahead.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say.
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Anna's final question was really how does one process these
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: moral injuries?
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: And sorry, Jacob is.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Right where I was going to, You're great, you go no,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: go ahead? Please?
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: Well, I was just gonna ask, like, how do you
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: process that?
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Like, I mean, for.
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: Nick, does it through dreams? Sorry, has weird ass dreams?
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: But that just shows how how much it really sits
• 30:57
  Speaker 4: with you. And you don't even realize that you're looking
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: on social media watching these atrocities happen and then like
• 31:02
  Speaker 4: turn your phone off and go to bed right. Honestly,
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: it reminds me of of a family member that I
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: had who worked as a drone pilot at you know,
• 31:13
  Speaker 4: Create here in Vegas and basically your job is to
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: murder people from Las Vegas and then go home at night.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: I mean fuck.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: And so I feel like we're all being thrown in
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: this world where we are watching these atrocities happen, whether
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: it's Ukraine, whether it's Israel, whether it's the US now
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: and then expect it to just turn our phone off
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: and go to bed at night, and it's it's going
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: to have effects.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So how do you process the moral injuries?
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: This sounds very basic therapy, bitch, but I would say,
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: like really, maybe some journaling, but some way to kind
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: of outwardly process and get out of our heads, because
• 31:53
  Speaker 4: our heads will spiral, our heads will create stories and
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: and and expand and sometimes just bring it back to
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: I say reality, even if the reality is scary and stressful,
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: just putting it on paper or talking through it with
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: a friend if you have one, like just both validating
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: like this is fucked up, this is scary. And again,
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: what if I were in that situation? I would say,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: not that situation, but any scary situation. What is your plan?
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: Just like I said, if they come to my do like, no,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: you're not coming in, that's my plan?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know, it's just.
• 32:26
  Speaker 4: Come up with your plan. Do you want to go
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: to protests? It's scary now to go to protests after
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: what happened to Alex, But yeah, what feels right for me?
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: What can I live with in that sense?
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Jake, I want to give you a chance to respond.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I have one final thought that i's wrap up with
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: but if you have any thoughts, Oh, I.
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: Was I was just gonna say.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's if you want to talk about what
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: we've said on this show before, that is one thing.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: If you want to talk about kind of personal thoughts,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that's a whole different animal. Yeah. And I'll tell you
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: something that has been very difficult for me with everything
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: going on in Minnesote, everything going on with with all
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: of this as it's as it's been happening, not only
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: this year, but the four years prior to Biden's administration,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: and that is that it's all being done in my name.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, I have a really hard time with that.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: But my government is doing these things in the name
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: of its citizens. We are doing these things.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's how the world sees it too, if you're
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: an American.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: And that is correct.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, the correct way to see this is the elected
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: officials that we elected are doing these things or us
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: I have a in my name, Yeah, yes, I have
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: a really representing you. I have a really hard time
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: squaring that circle. Yeah. That's and you know, there's a
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: long tradition of the American government and all governments doing
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: things that the majority of that government's people do not
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: want them to do. You know, in the last show,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I think we were joking about the Trump or the w.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Bush administration and how that was a whole vibe and
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it felt weird that we were preemptively attacking these third
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: world nations, both of whom did not actually attack us
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: on nine to eleven, and killing their tribes and their
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: children and bombing their cities and and you know, taking
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: over control. And that felt very strange when most of
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: us didn't want that to happen. We were scared it
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: was being done in our name. We felt exploited. So
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: there is I think a commonality there. I guess the
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: last thought I want to say, and and and I
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: hope you know we're we're qualifying a very hard letter
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: from you, and I really don't want us to accidentally
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: sound like we're being defensive of.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: This is this is a perfectly good conversation.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: The spirit of I know, all three of us, and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: except for Nick, who absolutely hates you, but the three
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: of us as a person. But because of your gender, yeah,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and and your bi athlete identity. You know that the
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: fact that you are both an athlete and by offends him.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: She is and the fact that you identify yourself as
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: such a bi athlete being out just so often.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Hates Yeah, he hates it.
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: But no, I guess, like my last thought on this,
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: you know, is just there's a very famous.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: Skiing and shooting right that she like.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Boys and girls. You know, you're ignorant. You're ignorant, and
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's insane, it's insulting to the entire biathlete community.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: They have suffered.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: So there is a very famous psychotherapist, and I think
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: his words now are more prescient than ever before. But
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Victor frank just the cigar there. It is Freud. So
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: Victor Frankel, his his theory, which is referred to his
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: logo therapy or existentialist psychotherapy, was born before the Holocaust,
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: where he a German citizen and a Jew, was just
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: a psychiatrist writing and thinking about psychotherapy. And then his
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: family was taken in the Holocaust. His children and his
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: wife and himself were all put into internment camps and
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: all of them but himself were killed, and he lost
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: everything he had ever owned, all of his wealth, the
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: family members that he loved, his marriage, his wife. He
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: lost all of his research and his manuscripts, every possession
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: he had ever owned, and as he survived, I believe
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: in Auschwitz the one thing that kept him alive was
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: finding his own individual perception of meaning, and that became
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the concept of the book, the very famous book Man
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Search for Meaning, which ultimately recounts his time in Auschwitz
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: and the big takeaway he had as he experienced literally
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: ground zero of human atrocity in the modern era. The
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: face of the Nazis in Auschwitz itself a horror that
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: is still much beyond what we are facing today, but
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: things that certainly can inspire us and instruct us today.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: He said, the one thing that he came to understand
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: that he had control over was his personal attitude about that.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: And here's a quote from Victor Frankel that I want
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: to wrap up with. He said, everything can be taken
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: from a man, but one thing, the last of human freedoms,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: to choose one's own way. I think as therapist, that's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the one thing we try to give people is the
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: freedom to express their own attitude, the freedom to find
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: their own way. We try really hard not to be prescriptive.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: We try really hard to allow them to encounter that truth,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: not to steer it. And so I know that we
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: can be disappointing having a platform as podcasters, being therapists,
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: we're supposed to restore calm and incredible moments of anxiety.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: I have to be very careful about how we teach
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: people to right size the things that frighten them. But
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: I think that at our best, we're trying to follow
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: in Victor's footsteps to give people the last of human
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: freedoms to choose their attitude, even in the face of
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: great atrocity. And here was Victor Frankel, having lost everything,
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: being abused, having his life threatened every moment of the day,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: waiting to have that last breath taken from him. He
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: chose happiness somehow, He chose joy somehow, and he became
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: this guy who said, and that became my one sense
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: of personal freedom was to choose my own meaning in reality.
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: And so as people are facing real atrocities and real
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: frightening things in this world today, the one comfort I
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: would give them is that Victor's telling you the truth.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: The one true, essential freedom that no leader can ever
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: steal from you is that choice of attitude. That choice
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: of one's own way, even in the path of suffering,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: to choose how you face it. There's a nobility to that.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: It can sound minimalist, it can sound dismissive, but I
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: think Victor's right. That is the last true core nucleus
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: that you have that nobody can actually steal from you.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: And that's a small little triumph in a sea of defeat.
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: But I hope it's the last atom that you can
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: hold on to because there's truth to that, and it's indivisible.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back,
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: we are talking about anxiety spiking a heart rate.
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: You are listening to a very serious episode of.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: A quiet We're gonna take nobody, Judi Sneider, liv Carolyn Alberton,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: Hemmy Scoops, Sarah Smith, Mike Jarry Cunningham, Pretty Religious, Hinder Scoop, O'Dare,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: and Amy Ardvar.
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: If you'd like to sponsor.
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: And support what we do, go to dot slash Therapy.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: Trivia question for you.
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: Jacob's in Charm.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: I have one trivia question for you because it's something
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: that I came across last week and I was told
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: on the desk on this show that I had to
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: come up with a trivia. We're doing this deer hunter sting. Yeah,
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: this is called Russian roulette. Oh shit, all right about
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: give or take? This happened about twelve times in US
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: music history where one song has been gone to number
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: one with two different artists doing the same song. What
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: was the song that popped into my head the other day? Uh?
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: Oh, I know it was.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: It was Creden Clearwater Revival and I can team Turner
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Proud Mary. Okay, so I heard that A or the
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: CCR version of Proud Mary made me think of the
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: Itantina version of Proud Mary, and I started thinking, boy,
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: those are both very successful. Like both of those music
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: groups made very successful songs. I kind of thought they
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: had both got a number one. Actually neither of them
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: got number one with those charts. They were both top five.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: I think they were like two and four. We started
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: thinking about that the original. How many times have multiple
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: artists recorded the same song and both gotten number one hits?
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, and it's happened about twelve times. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna make it. Is the trivia that we
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: have to come up with at least one of these twelve.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: You're gonna come up with an artist that's pulled it off.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to tell you that that artist is
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: someone that you see ads for regularly in Las Vegas, Nevada.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: And this is an example. This is an example.
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: This is one original, and they could have gotten one
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: of one of the two number one hits with.
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: The same song. And the hint is this is a.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: The Nevada, this is a Las Vegas for hers fuck
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: and that their cover or their original is part of
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: this duo. And it doesn't even have to be cover
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: an original. It could both be like both parties could
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: be recording a song that somebody else wrote, Oh boy,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: oh boy. In fact, I believe that is what happened here.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I believe that neither party wrote the song that became the.
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: Number one currently advertisers currently advertised.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know how to give you Whitney. I think
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: we gotta work as a team, Okay. I think it's
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: us for Jacob on this one. I'm really not against you.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I think we can work together when you think about
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: legacy Las Vegas performance that I feel like we need
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: in this case because they can be the music. Yeah,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: they could be the goddamn Jabin Talkies. Yeah, it's not
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: gonna be blue fucking man, It's it's gonna be like
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: Donnie Ozma.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: I thought Donn Marie there currently.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Well Donnie is Marie's not. But Donnie one hundred percent
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: is still good.
• 41:50
  Speaker 4: See him by the un LV all the time, Harsne
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: those I like Donnie.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: If you want to go see Donny is currently performing
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: the Harris Casino Lost still there. But what's gonna kill
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: us here is that we have some big residential artists
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: who come into town for this a little bit. So
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: we've had Mariah Carey.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: She just came in this time here.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking Adele was here with Share.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: We've had some bad artists.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Mariyah was just here, Elton John like a month and
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: a half, Fucking Elton John.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Elt John was here for years.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: But I look, I don't think knowing Jacob, I don't
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: think he's going to reference like deep history.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: It's gonna be.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be contemporary artists that are currently performing in
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Las Vegas or recently.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I'm not asking you an unfair question. I'm asking you
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: a question that you've.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: You've heard of that boards.
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's gonna.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Be Spice Girls.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Just Spice girls here. I think it's gonna be Sapphire
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Strip Club. Okay, going off of things that I have
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: seen you know a lot about. Yeah, Cinnamon has been
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: crushing it lately and she has been dancing her ass.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: We're all Cinnamon.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: If you're listen, and I know you are, I know
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: that you listen to listen. Yeah, yeah, I pay you
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: to listen. You better fuck it. You said you were
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: going to. She likes me for me, so you know
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: it's not I mean, Tipper. But that's aside from the
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: fact that we're we're basically it's getting kind of serious. Yeah. Look,
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: I think I think I'm gonna save her, she's gonna
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: save me. I think it's gonna be Donnie. I think
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: solid move. I don't regret he's still performing. I mean,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: obviously we've had some big residencies, but like you gotta
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: go Wayne Newtoner, you gotta go Donnie Oz. Oh wow,
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: So you're not even thinking about Oh, I guess I
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: can't say that. Well, if you if you're about you
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: don't even thinking about over at the Old West Gate, Oh,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: Barry Man Alo Erry.
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: People are still performing I'm out of the loop.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: I want to It's actually a goal of mine this
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: year to go see Berry manscribe to Barry Manilow's newsletter.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: All right, I'll forward it to you.
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: I feel like we've done this enough.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go. Donnie Osmond, You're free to do what
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: you got.
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: That's the only one I like.
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: Donnie. You guys got it.
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: It's Donny Osma.
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Fucking yes, yes, we are awesome, all of us. Donary Man.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I was also genuinely surprised that you didn't think about
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: Barry Man.
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't forget about Yeah.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was also sleep on Barry Man, sleep on
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: Barry mad Low.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: It's very fucking man. So what's the song.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: The song is called go Away Little Girl, first hit
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: number one in nineteen sixty three with a guy named
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Steve Lawrence, and the Donnie Osmond did it in seventy one.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: He was like, thirteen, I think.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Wow, oh my gosh, okay.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: So at first, whenever you were first giving us the category,
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't know you're gonna ask us about a performer locally.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: My thought was going to be with little help from
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: my friends the Beatles. The Beatles was is it Jim Croachy. Yeah, definitely,
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: it's not Jim Crochy. That's the second that did that.
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: I know what's talking about. That's not one, okay.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: I thought that would be one that could be number
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: one twice by two different artists and be a really
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: strong showing. There are a few that you've heard of,
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: because I looked through the whole list, like, there are
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: a few classic songs on there that you've heard of,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: but not now times it's just an obscure one that's
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: an artist like hit it with it. That's Donnie Osmond
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: thirteen years old. God dude, he's been performing forever. Oh
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: how old do you Whitney? Look this up? Jacob? How
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: old do you think Donny Osmon?
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: On my phone?
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna say if I can guess without going out,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: do you know it?
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: Jacob? No, you want to take a blind one with me?
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: The early sixties? Early okay, m boy, I think he
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: looks really good.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: In the mid sixties, I think he looks really really good.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: Give me sixty six.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Without going going over Yeah, yeah, yeah, price is right
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: rules in that case.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: Uh, sixty six and a.
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: Half sixty eight?
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: Wow, after you took it? Yeah, shameless bass. Oh he
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: looked amazing.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Whoever is doing Donny Osmond's work like you deserve your own.
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: I have a Donny Osmond T shirt that I'll wear
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: around town unapologetically.
• 46:09
  Speaker 5: Good, good, well, good baby Donnie.
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Baby Donnie. Yeah, there's a reason that Donnie and Marie
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: were child stars.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: They were adorable. If I may, my favorite Donnie Osmond
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: song from Mulan that moving on now the man's song?
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: What's it called? Don't dark Side of the Moon mysterious?
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: I'll make a man out of you? My favorite Donnie Osmond's.
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: Isn't that rocky horror picture show?
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: Also? Maybe that? Either Wayill seven days I can make
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: you amaz. This spike in your audio has been brought
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: to you by Jacob the audio Guy. My ears are
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: ringing and I don't even have a headset.
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: It definitely did.
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: We've got another great question here, anxiety spiked heart. Here
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: is the question I had to scare a few years
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: back when I was one hundred degrees at fahrenheit. Oh
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: thank you. It was one hundred degrees fahrenheit and a
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: very very humid outside. I had a low grade fever.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna start over again. I had a two degree fever. Yeah,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: let me try again. Here is the question I had
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: to scare a few years back, when it was one
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: hundred degrees fahrenheit and very humid outside, I had gone
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: for a walk without having had much water. My heart
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: rate spiked to one hundred and eighty. I ducked into
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: a local business and sat in the ac until I
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: cooled down, had my GP check me out, and did
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: a bunch of tests over the next year to confirm
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: my heart health was good. Turned out to be anxiety
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: around my general health. Ever since then, I cannot work
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: out anymore despite knowing my physical health is good, and
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I start getting anxiety whenever my heart rate is over
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty beats per minute. I had a
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: second incident where I started to work out again, but
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: my anxietiety brain misunderstood the workout screen on the watch
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: and saw the calories climbing, thinking it was heart rate,
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: and I had a panic attack. I had to get
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: rid of the smart watch because I would constantly check
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: my heart rate whenever it felt high. To this day,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I struggled to start any activities that raise my heart
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: rate without getting anxiety, and I get anxious just thinking
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: about going to the gym or doing martial arts again,
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: How do I start addressing this?
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: I saw a therapist a few.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: Years ago, and that helped a lot in many other areas,
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: giving me tools like mindfulness and breath work, but this
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: one area has been extra challenging to address. Thanks anonymous.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Anxiety is so.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Unique in the era of the fitbits and the smart watches.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Oh dude, that's so rough.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: This like exact thing happened to me one time while
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: I was working out a pho years Okay, I have
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: no idea what my heart rate spiked to or anything. Okay,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: but like my heart rate suddenly spiked. Yeah, and it
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: was just racing and you're like whoa, and it was
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: scary as fun. Yeah, and like yeah, the same thing,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: same thing is anonymous, Like it went through uh, you know,
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: went to the doctor, they did like echo echo cardiograms,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: they did, they did the stuff to trying to figure
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: out why this suddenly. Yeah, so it just got away
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: from you all of a sudden that you weren't even
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: exerting yourself enough to make it work. Like I was
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: working out, Like sure, I was doing a cardio type workout. Sure,
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: but it jumped way higher than it should and when
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: you stopped, it's still going yes, And so you're.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Sitting there going what you're freaking out?
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Were you measuring it also or is it just feltics?
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: It was just very fast, it was racing.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Gosh, I see this a lot. Like there's a lot
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: of people with anxiety that develop like a health anxiety,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: and they're scared of a heart attack, sudden death, and
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: like it's such a difficult thing to break because anxiety
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: itself is attached to your sympathetic nervous system, which just
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: when you are cued up and anxious, you start respirating.
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: You start breathing a lot higher. Like your body develops
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: cortisol in the blood to thicken the blood because it
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: is you're in danger, which means your heart has to
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: pump harder to move it through. The blood coagulates in
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: your biggest muscle groups like your thighs and your your
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: pecks and your your biceps, so your fingers and toes
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: start to get tingling.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of blood in there, Yeah, a lot
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: of I like bloody titties.
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, really thick and just bloody.
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: That's that's what's why they call me the count.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: Dial Oh god, oh my.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: God, I count them for you one. So yeah, so
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: all this is going on physically, and so then you're
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: like tingling and you're struggling, and you feel his physical presence.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: And if the thing you are afraid of fundamentally is
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: a health crisis, unfortunately you are artificially creating your own
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: health crisis, and this feedback loop turns into a perfect circle.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: I've seen this happen so many times of things just patients, yeah,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: people that have health anxiety. It's really really rough.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: It is. I just had a client I was working
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: with recently who was telling me they had to get
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: rid of their watch because it was like, yes, I
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: support it.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: I always tell people unless your cardiologists particularly gave you
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: a watch and said this needs to go straight to
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: nine one one, you have no business looking at that
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: because the feedback loop is incredible. Like you see your
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: BPM and you're like.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Oh no, what's going on?
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then just gets worse and worse and worse,
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: and you're getting yourself all spiraled.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Out, I know.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: And the difficult thing with anxiety is that sometimes even
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: when we're checking, like we go to the doctor and
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: they say everything's okay. That doesn't really help like you
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: imagine it would, right, and maybe for the average person
• 51:38
  Speaker 4: that would help, Like maybe Jacob had interested. Yeah, and
• 51:41
  Speaker 4: he's like that was weird and very scary. Let me
• 51:43
  Speaker 4: go the doctor. They said everything's fine, and maybe that
• 51:45
  Speaker 4: was enough.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: He was like, all right, oh it was, and I'm
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: still freaked out about it.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, No, I don't like stays with you.
• 51:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah, you don't work out.
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: I'm very much empathetic with anonymous, Like, no, I'm not
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: to the degree that, yeah, I'm not struggling with it
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: the way that amous is, but it definitely stays in
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: my mind. Does it cause you to be a voidant
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: of doing exerting things? Or when you feel the escalation
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: in your heart rate when you are working out, is
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: there a part of it?
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: Like shit, let's just keep a lid on this pod.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: It's not even quite to that, but I notice it.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I take note of it. You are aware, that's it. Yeah,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: it has made me. It has made me more way.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: It really freaked me out for a few weeks in
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: doctor's visits and all that kind of stuff, and I
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: wanted to really see if there was something the matter. Sure,
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: and when the doctor said there is not you know that,
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: I guess that did alleviate that part of that concern. Yeah,
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: her rate and anxiety is such a difficult bond break because.
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: Like exercise places your body in an anxious state. Like
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: you said, point is your sweating and your heart.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: You're simulating survival against the environment. Okay, here's a weird
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: tie in for you, anonymous. In acting in theater school,
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: there are all these different acting methods.
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: Okay for people who don't know, I went to theater school.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there are these different acting methods like method man,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: but like method for instance, red Man, method man, red
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Man snoop.
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: Well he's a dog, yeah, not even a man. It's
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: in his name.
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: I'm silly. Well, I didn't obviously go to school for this.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: So but there are there are there are a few
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: ways that acting coaches and people who kind of do
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: this for a.
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: Living think about this, okay, And most of.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: It, most of the kind of acting theory and what
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: you hear about is like method acting. That's that's that's
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: one of these acting methods that we that we hear
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: about is people doing method acting. That's one where you
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: really kind of Uh, you submerge yourself into that character.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: You try to stay exactly okay, You're trying to become
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: that character as much as you can so that you
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: can really get the idea of that character across. There
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: are many, many very famous actors that we've all heard
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: of that that use method acting techniques. Betty Page, Betty
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Page for instance, Betty White, all the bettys. Debbie. Uh,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: her name is Debbie, it's not Dallas, Yeah exactly, Yeah, okay.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: But there there are other acting methods that go the
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: other direction, and that is it hypothesizes that by doing
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: the motions that you would do when you are angry,
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: it lends credence to your emotional state.
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: It it puts.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: You in that by by adopting an angry posture. Okay,
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: you can start to kind of make yourself feel angry.
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: You can simulate it to the point where you can
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: start it. That's it, okay, And that's kind of the
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: acting method. It's not a fake thing. Yes, I mean.
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: Your body, your body reacting.
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: Oftentimes we think of reactions going from our brain kind
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: of out to our body. Right, it's perfectly reasonable to
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: think about it going the other way. Well, you give
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: this advice all the time of fake it till you
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: make it, so you make it, which you've never used
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: as a pejorative, You've always said, but there is some truth.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: If you're simulating a reality that you want to become
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: your reality, keep simulating it. You'll be surprised how you
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: and your own body and your own reality start to
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: become the thing you're pretending. Yes, because yeah, the brain
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: follows the body a lot of time. It's just a pattern, right,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: You're just setting that. You're setting that pattern in your brain. Yes,
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: And so I mean if you if you put your
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: set and it's what you just said, you know, you're
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: you're doing these this physical exertion. It is stressing your body,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: it is. It is stressing to you, it is, and
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: that stress is going to your brain. It's it's a
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: stressing you know, your brain is part of your body.
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: That's it's catching it's catching that stress. And it's tough
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: because I think that a lot of times. And this
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: kind of goes back to what you were saying Whitney, like,
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: there is no difference between the brain and the body.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: It's one system, right, And so I think this is
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: where a lot of us get lost is because we'll
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: notice our body responding a certain way, and then we
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: feel like we're monitoring our body and we're responding to it.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: But there's an invisible feedback loop where your body's actually
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: happening live and as you feel frightened and startled, your
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: body is feeding that back to you and it's giving
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: you the danger signal, and then you perceive that and
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: go the light is blinking and it's like it's a
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: met I mean, I reference this last time. But it's
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: like if a smoke detector could emit its own smoke
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: when it's detecting smoke. It's like if the action of
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: like tracing smoke was like a diesel powered thing, and
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: it's like okay, but by monitoring itself, it is activating itself, right,
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: And that's what happens with the anxious brain with like
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: like health anxiety is you start mentally scanning your body
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: and like, the more you do that, the more you
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: notice signals from your body. Because your body and your
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: brain are not two different things. So you're telling the
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: brain body you're not looking at the brain body, and
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: the brain body comes back always with a ping. The
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: echo location always finds its own sub the call is
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: always coming from inside the house exactly, and then you
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: activate and you're like, oh no, there's a thing happening.
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: What is happening? And then we just circle like it
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: just feedback loops out of control.
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's kind of what are your thoughts on. It's
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: sort of playing into the whole fake it till you
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: make it vibe of you know, CBT, where if you
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: go into exercising from the perspective of, oh shit, I'm
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: really scared of this thing happening, and shift it to
• 57:10
  Speaker 4: while I'm really strong and I'm gonna get through this
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: light workout, I would start light, maybe just test those
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: waters a little bit, but practice like very low impact workout,
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: maybe like swimming or something that does raise your heart rate,
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: but if you're not swimming super hard, like it's probably
• 57:28
  Speaker 4: not gonna be over one twenty some maybe not because
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: you might drown if you have a heart attack. All right,
• 57:33
  Speaker 4: maybe not swimming, let's take that off the table. Running
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: light walking, Just start with some walking, but something to
• 57:40
  Speaker 4: where you're you're still raising your heart rate, maybe not
• 57:43
  Speaker 4: to that one in twenty range, but practice what that
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: mental narrative is as you go walking Instead of just
• 57:49
  Speaker 4: the fear while you're walking, like I'm worried my heart
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: rate's gonna hit this.
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: I need to be from like.
• 57:53
  Speaker 4: A fear based perspective, but instead a little bit more
• 57:56
  Speaker 4: of that take control perspective, where yeah, this is I'm
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: a person who can go on a walk and I
• 58:03
  Speaker 4: my body can manage this.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: I have a strong body.
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: I like that.
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: So no, this, you're You're exactly in the right direction.
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: So like, I work with a lot of people with anxiety.
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously I live with it as well. I've
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: never had this kind of anxiety, thank goodness. I have
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: every other kind, but like this one is one where
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of people deal with it, and
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: the typical response they try to do is exactly what
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: the writer said. They try to calm themselves down. And
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: I actually think counterintuitively, I think you'll have more successful
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: in the other way with it. And what I mean
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: by that writer is reminding yourself, I come from a
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: species that is built for this shit. My body and
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: my brain jack into a high run a lion. Yeah,
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: my shit is dumping cortisol. Yep, I'm gasping for air.
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to, like, you know, take adrenaline is coming
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: through my body. I am trying to like survive because
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I am the fucking descendant of cavemen and I can
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: fucking fight to the death. And like, my brain and
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: body is responding as if there is a bear. But
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: like the thing that you have to remind yourself in
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: there is I'm built for this. Homo sapiens are built
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: for this. We can survive this, and like that's one
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: of our superpowers, is the ability to go through abnormal,
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: scary big things and like get through it. And so
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: your brain and body are responding as if there is
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: a danger. There isn't one. And I don't want you
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: to necessarily amp yourself up, but I want you to
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: reassure yourself. My brain and body perceive danger, and so
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: I'm going into electric mode. I'm going into warrior mode.
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going into battle mode. That is super uncomfortable, like
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: an alarm in my house, like a fire alarm. It
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: is designed to be unignorable. It is designed to get
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: every part of me activated so that I perceive and
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: sense danger and try.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: To avoid it.
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: There is no danger, So there's a false alarm here.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: That's fine, But I don't need to fear the alarm itself.
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: These fire alarms, they are built to make that sound.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: This house, it is built to detect smoke. It is
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: built to give these alarms. I am sensing and I
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: am going off on a big alarm that is okay.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Like this engine is built to run at these RPMs.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: That scares me. It's uncomfortable. I'm feeling a rattle in
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: the machine when that happens. But I think you get
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: so much out of reassuring yourself instead of necessarily just
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: trying to calm yourself down. Reassuring yourself. My species is
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: built to do this. I am a badass, and I
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: think by reminding yourself of that, it just reassures you
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: that you're not in danger. You're elevated, you're escalated. You're
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: running in high RPMs right now, but your engine's built
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: for the shit. It's not going to explode. It can
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: handle it. And I think just reassuring yourself of that
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: almost allows your body and brain to calm down at
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: its own natural angle without just sitting there like taking
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: deep breaths and trying to like put cold water in
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: your neck and like just trying to calm yourself down,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: like I've found that some people actually benefit from just
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: reminding themselves you will not die from this. You are
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: built for this shit. A fucking bear could crash into
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: your house right now. You are built to scramble to
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: safety and avoid that ship and run your ass off
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: and then collapse in an exasperation later. But like, you
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: will not die while the bear is attacking you, like
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: you're not. You're not going to die during the anxiety attack.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: You're built for this ship. The fact that you're feeling
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: the alarms go off, as like uncomfortable as that is,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: it's actually evidence that you are built to do it.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that's actually reassuring sometimes, because the bigger
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: fear is like I'm going to have a heart attack.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 1: This is not the way you die. They said a
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: bear will fuck you up. Take Jim's good speech. There
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: good point as license to go fuck with a bear.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: Don't fight bear.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: The bear will not.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: You won't die.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: Jim is right.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: You won't die because the bear is scaring you, and
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: that is because bears will start eating their prey good
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: while it is still alive.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: You will not die of natural causes. You will die
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: of bear inflicted injuries. You will die from a bear.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: It is cavemen did not die from the shock of
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: the bear. They died from the teeth. And it was
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: the bear itself was the you. That's your fucking fault.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: But yeah, just remembering that you are descended from an
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: ancestry of a species that are designed to be very
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: skittish animals. We we did you know, we did not
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: come from descendants who had long teeth and long fucking claws,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: and we're dangerous ship. We are small squirrel monkey things
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: that got really tall and bipedal and walked on the
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: prairie and we are skittish as fuck because we see
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: ship coming and we haul asks. So if you I
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: don't know if it's fair to say that we're all
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: by people. Okay, some of us are by athletes, Yeah,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: a proud few who I support. I don't know. We're
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: used to it.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: No, I just don't think. I don't know if it's
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: fair to say that we're all by people. Okay, not
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: not all of them. We didn't people.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: One day, we will, I want to believe.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the right way to go.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: I think.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: That is.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: Much.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: We just go the way of the Bonanbos, right.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: I think it's the right way.
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: The path of the human future is a way.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm open to it. You know what, we're having
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 3: a small argument right now. Let's just fuck it out.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: Let's just let's just big go out.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: And then we're just like, you know.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: What, all right, let's let's have.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: You know what, blockbuster guy, You're right, I did not
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: rewind you know what?
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 2: Pay the price?
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, librarian, I'm gonna pay the fee.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: You know, that would solve a lot of Karen's out there.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: Sometimes I think the Karen just needs to be banged out.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: And then she's like, you know what, five.
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: Stars, Yeah, you know what your yard is?
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Okay, you were.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: Out of ranch at the salad bar. I'm still pretty
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: piste about it. But you hit me where I live
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: and I like it.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: But you gave me that blue cheese.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take quick break, and when we come back,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: we're talking about dealing with a father's end of life.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: We have just three and we're going you're listening to
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: pot Therapy.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judy Schneider, Carolyn
• 1:03:58
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• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: Here your name during our actor that's the trivia. Which
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: movie is the only one to win the Big five
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: Academy Awards?
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: This is Best Picture?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: No?
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: This is Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: and Best Screenplay The oh Nice's shooting from the Nip
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Mary Poppins Original final answer do.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 4: We have no.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: All? Right? Uh? Wait? Is that all the awards?
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: I don't know. That's just what I felt.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, you gotta be talking best movies all time. Okay,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, I will give you a him
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: thank you.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 4: Uh.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Definitely adjacent to therapy.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: Oh. It is a movie that we have talked about
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: on this show before, and it is a movie that
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: we have all or at least Nick and I have
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: been surprised and a little upset that Jim has not seen. Yes,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: gim it's Iron Eagle right, it won all the missing
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: really undersold Silence of the Lambs, Oh, Silence of the Lambs.
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 5: So this weekend I was on you haven't seen Silence
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 5: of the lamp clips of it.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: You see get out. This is a break and deal breaker.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: So like this weekend, I was on a boy scout
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: trip and we were talking about the top one hundred
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: movies of all time, and suns Lamb was really high
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: on the list, like number one all time according to IMDb.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: Though of what highest rated movie of all time according
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: to imbe user ratings. So this is not cinematographers make decision,
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: not the academy. What do you think the number one
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: movie of all time.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: Was a people voted on this just the.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: People's champion of IMDb.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: It's like Scarface or something that that also was on there.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: It was in the top one hundred.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: Casino is it? Casino?
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: Is it? Is it?
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: One of those like in the top one hundred it
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: was Shindler's Limb.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's good.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 4: Good.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: Actually I'm wrong.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: It was not Schindler's. Shindler's was in the top ten.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: It was the Shawshank Shawshank Redemption noted as the best movie.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: Have you seen that?
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: I have seen that?
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: Ok, Okay, I can't see.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Silence of the Lamb because it's scary what everyday object
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: I see? He's not scared by someone's life being taken.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: That's a happy story. Tim Robbins makes it spoiler spoiler
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: through h river of shit River. What everyday object was
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: originally invented to keep car radiators from freezing before becoming
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: a popular household product. Oh my god, it to keep
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: them from freezing car radios for freezing, and the later
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: became a popular household product. So like, my my brain
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: is like anti freeze, but that's not a popular household
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: product unless it's in meth or something. Well, if they
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: had anti freeze and then they like also made that
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: any freeze into something else that became a household product,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: it would be that type of thing. I'll bet you
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: it's going to be something like jello.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: You don't have to whisper, okay, In fact, would rather
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: you're not.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: I think he can see us.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 2: He's not looking at us.
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: I think doesn't know that you're Yeah, so a popular
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: household product that originated by protecting radiators.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: From freezing vinegar.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Okay, No, it is anti freeze. Annie freeze is the
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: right first answer, the second answer, but then yeah, that
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: is the household product. Yeah, meth, it's meth.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: I knew it.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: METHI, oh, I knew it. Very popular household tupperware plastic used,
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: and tupperware was first developed as a byproduct of materials
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: created to insulate and protect car radiators. I will be
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: damned you didn't know that, Whitney, You dumb ask what
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: us tupperware called. It was a derivative, a derivative of it. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: all right, Well we're doing good. I'm clearly winning because
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: I feel like the anti freeze puts me in.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 3: Nick is winning.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 2: I think he is. Somehow, you got extra points.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: Anybody not listening today's episode is really yeah, I feel
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: like somebody not here? Is everybody not here? Last question
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: for the night, dealing with father's end of life. Hello friends,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: As I am writing this, my father, who is pushing
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: eighty years old, has been hospitalized for some kind of
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: wound in his leg that he didn't tell anyone about
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: for weeks and needed to get debrided debridgment, bridement, de bridement,
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: and irrigation. Good luck on saying that first one, Jim,
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all right, very well predicted Jesus, you are
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: a civil hut. He has been moved to a different
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: hospital after blood clots seem to have moved from his
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 1: leg to his brain, and there is potential for stroke
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: and other more serious complications. My uncle is praying for him,
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: and I think my mother is preparing for the worst.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: I'm hoping this is not the end for him, but
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: it could be since he doesn't have the best history
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: of taking care of himself. They are trying to make
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: sure there is an advance directive on file and telling
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: the whole family what is going on so they can
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: come visit while he's in the hospital and care for him.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: After adding this emotional turmoil on top of a recent
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: breakup has been sending me into a couple of existential
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: crisises episodes about death and mortality. I guess the dam
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: holding back my reservoire of tough feelings has finally broken.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Thank you, do not worry. I am bridging this up.
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: I'm bringing thank you bringing this up with my therapist now,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: so I'm sure I'm in a better state of mind
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: when you all finally read this or not. Who knows
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 1: what the next couple of weeks hold for my family.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 3: This was sent it in twenty nineteen.
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: Oh No, my very easy.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: To answer questions are these, How do we come to
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: terms with our parents aging and eventual passing. I want
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: to be angry with him for not taking care of himself,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: and at the same time, I'm just sad that he
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem to recognize the damage his apathy is doing
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: to people around him who care about him so much.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Anger doesn't seem to be something that I have space
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: to hold for him. I feel more empathy for what
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: he's gone through and see the deep hurt of another
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: human who has been through stuff. He is just that,
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 1: a human, a human being with flaws, and while he
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: was not the dad I always wanted, he is still
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: my dad. There is just a lot of sadness about
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: what I could be losing here soon. Anyway, Thanks for
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: the laughs you share with us each week and for
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: your thoughts on this. Signed anonymous, oh parent of life.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: This made me think of my my stepmom.
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: When her mom passed, I think it was two years
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: ago now they're coming up on three. She was in
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: her mid eighties, so not too far off of writer's dad,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: and I think there is one something about parents hiding
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 4: their illnesses, like not wanting to go to the doctor,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 4: like it was so bizarre because she was having these
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 4: like arm you know, pains are swelling, but it was
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 4: just like trying to blow it off. And then by
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: the time she went to the doctor was like, oh,
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 4: you have cancer and this is like a big fucking deal.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: So and even then she like didn't want to talk
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 2: about it. It was just hard and so.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 4: But one of the things that stuck with me I
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: had never thought about. I don't have a lot of
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 4: friends whose parents have passed, and I think it hits
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 4: everyone different. But she said, it feels like and maybe
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: this one both your parents pass. Actually let me rephrase,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: but it feels like you're an orphan. And I was like,
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: that's interesting. You're in your sixties, you know, or early sixties, but.
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 3: You are I think my definition you are that.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 4: I just I had never thought about, especially an older adult,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 4: where like, you know, your parents are going to pass
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 4: in their eighties. Maybe like statistically speaking, gym statistics show
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: he doesn't.
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: Know, he doesn't he has no idea. I was told
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: there be no math.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: You might as well be speaking.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 4: He's staring off into the distance. But I thought that
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: was such an interesting thought, and it's kind of sat
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 4: with me, and it made me really think about like, oh,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 4: when my parents pass, Yeah, there's there's no one to
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 4: go to, to look to, to like reach out to,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 4: to chat with. Like the people that have been there
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 4: your whole life are gone.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I mean it is. I mean,
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: by by nature your parents have always been there. That
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: is something I read once that that really stuck. But yes,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: is it said the longest relationship of your life is
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: your parents until it's your siblings. And that's because you're
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: going to lose your parents and you're probably the long
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: streationship of your life after they pass will be your
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: siblings most likely. Like that is a fascinating reality, and like,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting because I have this theory that like,
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: when you're an elder person and you start going through
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: so many healthcare issues and like, you know, people tried
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: to you, like why aren't you better with your self
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: care and all this stuff. I think there's a sense
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: of fatigue, and I think there's a sense of like
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: I'm tired of running to the hospital. I'm tired of
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: going to see doctors. I'm tired of having another problem
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: presented to me. And I don't have a lot I'm
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: fighting for, Like whenever you're young and you have a
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: lot ahead of you, and especially I think if you
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: have dependents or people in your life, they're like, I'm
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: living for my spouse, or I'm living for these kids,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: or like those family members have to take care of them,
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: or even grandchildren that you're like, they still might need me.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: I've got them.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: Like there's so many motivating factors that keep you on
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: top of self care because you love others. But I
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: think a lot of people hit this place in life,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: especially in your eighties, when it's like I don't know
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: that anybody is depending on me.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: I'm just passing the.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: Time, like the next big adventure is death. And so
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: geriatric depression is a really serious thing, and it's.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: Like I've got a sore on my leg. I've got
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 3: to I've got a spot on my leg. That's that's bad.
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: But I don't want to bother anybody, I know.
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: I hear that a lot from older adults. They don't
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: want to bother.
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: I don't want to bother with it. I don't want
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: to mess with it. Like it's always difficult, it's always expensive,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times I think elder people also,
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 1: to their defense, they often get discounted by healthcare providers.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: It's sort of like, man, what are you gonna do?
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: You're fucking old, and it's like, oh, just do this thing,
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: you know. It's like okay, you know, just it sometimes
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: feels dismissive to them.
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 4: Well yeah, but something you said, Jim, like they're they're thinking, oh,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: what am I living for? I think that's the part
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 4: that feels hurtful, as from the writer from anonymous, like well,
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: I'm here, I want you to be here, like live
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 4: for me. But that's that's their perspective, whatever that is,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 4: you know, it's not saying that that is.
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: It is a really hard thing to answer, like and
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: I've I've kind of gone through this a little bit
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be a little cagy and how much
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: I share, but appreciating that elder generations of your family
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: have sort of earned the right to go ahead and
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 1: decide what they want to do with their lives and
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: their time and they don't owe you anything. And sometimes
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 1: it can be resentful because it's like, well, what the fuck, Like,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: you know, I think I matter, you know, why don't
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: you want to be with me? But there's a sense
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: of like, you know what when I get to your age,
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: I might just be fucking tired, and I might think, Dude,
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of years raising your ass and
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 1: taking care of you. I don't want to hang out
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: with you, and it's because I don't like it, because
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: I want to watch Real of Fortune, you know, or whatever,
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: or I don't want to go to the doctor. And
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: like there's a sense of autonomy there that doesn't always
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: have to be a reference on our relationship or like
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: whether I am mattering to you. It could just be
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: that you're just tired and old and stubborn, and so
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I struggle with that, Like I
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: appreciate that sentiment that the writer's talking about, and I
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: definitely would feel that way too, Like why aren't you
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: taking care of yourself? From me? I love you, but
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: I can appreciate you the other person. They're sort of like,
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been taking care of your whole life.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: Every decision I've ever made is somewhat about you. I'm tired.
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I don't want to fuss with this. Yeah, I don't care,
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: and my life coach piece of advice is all you
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: can do is yourself. All you can handle is yourself.
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, you're you're asking about your dad's apathy and
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: everything else, and that is frustrating to you. I mean,
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: I see that in your letter. All you can do
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: is work on yourself. You can work on your own attitude,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: you can work on your own disposition. And it's also,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: by the way, I think the only thing that you
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: can really do that might actually make a change in
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: your dad's attitude. That's fair. Yeah, spending time with him,
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: loving him. Yeah, you know, passing the time with him,
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: you might get a little bit of that chain that
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: you're hoping for. You might not. Yeah, you know, it's
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: not a guarantee. But you can't control how he's going
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: to behave. You can't control how he's acting. You can't
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: control that he seems to be apathetic and is not
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: taking care of himself the way that you would like
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 1: him to.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: Ye, you can control yourself. That's it.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: And you know, I think like also reflecting on the
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: fact of grief before, and we've had questions in the
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: past about like pre grieving, like anticipating an inevitable reality
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: and sort of like, oh my god, I'm kind of
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: grieving the powerlessness I'm feeling right now, Like it's basically
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: already happening. Oh yeah, I'm kind of watching this slow
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: motion just developing. Oh.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 3: I have a small pile of those in my life. Yeah,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 3: I'm like, here's just this pile of things that I
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 3: know are going to be terrible.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: I know these things are going to be awful. Yeah,
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: not that I can do about them.
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: But there is a sense of pre grieving about it.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: And writer, I think that there's a lot of meaning
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: to that, like, and look, it doesn't make it easier
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: to know that that's an inevitability, but your parent has
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: gotten into their eighties. If it isn't this issue, it
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: will eventually be another issue, you know, And I get
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: that none of us want to face that reality is
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: such an existential burden. I remember one psychologist talking about
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: how your parent represents the last line of defense between
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: you and death, and like, at a very young age,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: there your protector. They symbolically are your safety net. In
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: your twenties, like you're always thinking of like, Okay, if shit,
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: it's the fan, We've got family and can fall back on.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 3: My mom and dad.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: But like when your parents actually die, they are the
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: actual representative of the last line of defense between you
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: and death. Anytime you worry about your own line, yes,
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: anytime you worry about your own health. Anytime you wonder like,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: am I okay, what's going on with me? You always
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: remind yourself mom and dad are still around. Everything's okay.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: But whenever your parents are age, it feels like there
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: is no barrier between you and death, like you're next
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: up on the line. And so there's this existential reality
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: I think that shakes people up whenever a parent's facing death.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: It is also like the only piece of knowledge that
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: we really have as human beings is that we're going
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: to die, right, The only thing that we really know
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: for sure is that we're going to die. But then
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: the other thing that we don't know at all is
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: when it's gonna happen and how it's gonna happen.
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: It's the torture.
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: It's it's the your older brother told you, Hey, today
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 1: before dinner, I'm gonna punch you in the face, right right,
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 1: at some point today, you're getting punched in the face.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: Please punch me in the face. Don't make me anticipate it.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: But we're all and we forget that because we've all
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 1: lived our entire lives like this, we all know that
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: we're going to die. And I mean, and just even
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: as I say those words, it's hard for me to
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: follow it up by saying like unless there's some kind
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: of miraculous technological advance, like there are ways that I
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: might not die, You guys are gonna die. I'll tell
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: you that I will probably die.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: I pay extra to Google, Okay, I pay for Gemini.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: So like when they developed a curely and be like,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: all right, Jim gets it. Come on, but that is
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 1: the only thing that we don't know, and I mean
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: and having that, having that unknown of this terrible thing
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: is going to happen, right, And we have well in
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: no concept of this is the universal fight of all
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: of humanity. Like you said, it's the one inevitable enemy.
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: It's the one enemy we all share. And so whenever
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: you see a member of our species giving up to
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: that enemy, maybe they're facing terminal illsorts or with suicidality
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 1: or this sort of yeah, like apathy about their life
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: because they've aged out of it. When you see them
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: starting to not fight that fight anymore, when they stop
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: swimming against the river, right and you see them drifting away,
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: there's this horror inside of you're, like, what are you doing?
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: That's the one mandate that we do is we fucking swim.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: And then there's this other realization, like you're saying, Jacob,
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 1: of like I too will one day succumb to the
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: river and be taken away, and like that's a very
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: terrified and watching somebody else go through it, it's awakening. Yeah.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 4: The last thing I just wanted to say was, I mean,
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 4: one of the last lines you said was there's just
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 4: a lot of sadness about what I could be losing
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 4: here soon, And I just want to validate that because
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 4: I think sitting an emotion can be hard in situations
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 4: like this, and it might be really easy to want
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 4: to push that aside or not not just acknowledge it.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 4: And so I'm I'm glad you're at least trying to
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 4: find the words to put to some of these emotions,
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 4: because that's going to help you process.
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, right, I mean, there's no way to
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: comfort you for this. You're just about to face a
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 1: huge mountain of grief. And even if your dad, you know,
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 1: pulls through this one and you know moves on, the
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 1: day is of course coming, and so it will always
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: feel like surrender. It will always feel like more could
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: have been done. It will always feel like we should
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: have fought for another ten years, another twenty years.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 3: Never ever give up.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: But I've had family members that were facing really difficult,
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: you know, medical conditions that they just say, I did
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: not to fight because it would have been too expensive
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: in the American healthcare system, and they don't want to
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: bankrupt their family, And they were like, you know what,
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: I don't want to suffer anymore. The treatment's hurt. I
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 1: just want to let go. And it's so hard for
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 1: me to accept that, but I guess there's a part
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: of me that says, you know what, you have the
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: right to decide that, Like, you've lived a long life,
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 1: you have that right to let go and drift with
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 1: the river and peace be with you. And it hurts
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: me to let you go. It feels like you're rejecting me.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: But I have to right size that and remind myself
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: you're not rejecting me. You've loved me my whole life
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: in your own way, and like this is a decision
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: that you get to make selfishly for you, and I
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: need to respect that, you know, And I hope that
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: my people will when they respect that decision I make
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: for me and not shame or guilt me that day,
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 1: Like let me have this, you know, like the day
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: that I decide that I'm done, let me have that.
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: I really, this is my prediction on a random note,
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 4: little tangent is you know how like the birth rate
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 4: is lowering in the US, and everyone's like, well, who's
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 4: going to do the jobs and take care of the
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 4: old people as we get older and there's too many
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 4: old people. I'm like, maybe they'll finally bring a like
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: dignity and dying where you can like choose when to
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 4: end your life, because that makes more sense, like than
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 4: trying to pay and like have workers that are overstrained
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 4: and like you know, treating elderly horribly, Like just let
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 4: me go when I'm ready to go, Like, maybe let
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 4: me make that choice. Maybe we won't because it is
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 4: kind of against human nature to choose to die, but
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 4: also against theocracy.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it offends the concept. Yeah, but I'll tell you
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: who loves it is insurance companies. They would love us
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: to be able to choose euthanasia. In fact, they would
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: like us to do that when we go in for
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: a checkup but man, yeah, can I get the vaccine
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: for this year's flu? Okay, you can, But I just
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: also want you to know at the same exact pharmacy
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: we can use. Think it's really whatever's going on that day.
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: Here's yeah, like.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 4: We've seen too much with older adults. And if you
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 4: don't have kids, I'm like, why am I here? All
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 4: my friends have died, why my spouse is probably dead
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 4: statistically speaking.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 3: And there's a lot of isolation.
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 1: Jim, geriatric mental health care honestly is going to be
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: the next big frontier you know of.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: So dark.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 1: But writer, you know, we're we're just with you on this.
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess we're just you know, bearing witness
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: to what you're going through, trying to encourage you through it,
• 1:24:21
  Speaker 1: trying to you know, give you some context and some perspective.
• 1:24:24
  Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, I just hope
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: that you'll you'll find a way to somehow honor your
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: father while getting what's left out of the relationship, you know,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: reflecting positively. And I'll give you one piece of personal advice,
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: you know, and this is a philosophy that I live by,
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: is giving people their flowers while they can smell them.
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: You know, so often we lay flowers at the grave
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: of the person we love, and by that I mean
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: at their funeral, we talk about how they were wonderful,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: what a good dad, and all the best memories we
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: have of them, and how much we admired them and
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: we loved about them, and it would have changed their
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: life to hear what we really think about them, how
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: much we liked them. But then we only say that
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: when they can't actually hear us at their funeral. And
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: so so in my experience, when I've had family members
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: who are passing, one of the things that I've been
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 1: very proud of myself on is I seize the opportunity
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: to have a weird and awkward conversation where I sit
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: them down and I say, you just need to buckle up.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: I know you don't like compliments. I know this is
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: gonna be weird, but I'm gonna ugly cry and I'm
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: gonna tell you how much you mean to me, and
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: that's just important to me, and I hope you'll let
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: me do it. And I just have some thoughts written out,
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: and I'll tell them memories and things that I admire
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 1: about them and things I like about them and just
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: how thankful I am for them and how grateful I
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: am for them, and I just give that to them
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: while they can understand it and perceive it and receive it.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 1: And for me, Writer, That's been one of the happiest
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: things I've ever done in my life, because when I
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 1: have had to say goodbye to people, I have this
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: deep sense of peace that I told them how much
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: I loved them while they understood it and while they
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: could receive it. And I'm glad I could give them
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: that gift. So I can think of no better, greater
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: thing that I could ever receive than people telling me like,
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 1: hey man, I privately really liked you, like I've really
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 1: admired you. I think you were great, your good dad, whatever.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: That's the trophy of all of life, and so often
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 1: we deny each other that. So I just hope that
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: that's something you'll think about, Writer, and maybe that might
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: be the one last thing you can give your father.
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: As we wrap up the show here, we want to
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: remind you can go to patreon dot com slash Therapy.
• 1:26:12
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• 1:26:15
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• 1:26:18
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• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: and rants. We are recording this on February first. We
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: had to do a double because, as I've shared in
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 1: the patreot'll be out of town. But yeah, so we
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: just want to think, all there's a fantastic Owl coming
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: up next week, a superb Owl, a superb Yeah. Actually,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: as they're hearing this, it's already super Bowl. Yeah, that's right,
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  Speaker 1: will be out of town, but as you're hearing this
• 1:26:42
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• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: thank you. If you've signed up a patreon dot com
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: slash Therapy, we will be thanking you in the next episode,
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: but obviously here in the past we don't know. But
• 1:26:51
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• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: They give till it hurts. Are they're a partner picket.
• 1:27:00
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• 1:28:00
  Speaker 1: that's all the time you did for this week, Sesson,
• 1:28:02
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• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: Thanks to those of you who contributed to our show today.
• 1:28:07
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• 1:28:11
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• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: Should the episode of the world. That is some socials
• 1:28:14
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• 1:28:15
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• 1:28:32
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• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: Jim Topics, and we'll see you for your appointments next week.
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: You know what, We give them a lot of ship
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: and it's jobbed pretty hard.
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is, I can.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 1: On top of that script, Nick, I'm so glad you
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: were able to make it. At the end of the show,
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 1: but problem they comebye, oh ye goodbye, everybody by
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: There is a sound eagle goodbye