Latest / Success Story with Scott Clary / Michael Gonzalez - FitTea Founder | He Built America's #1 Detox Tea Into a 9-Figure Exit and Still Wasn't Happy

Transcript

Michael Gonzalez - FitTea Founder | He Built America's #1 Detox Tea Into a 9-Figure Exit and Still Wasn't Happy · Success Story with Scott Clary

• 0:00
  You made Fit Tea.
• 0:01
  You built it for yourself before you turned it into a business.
• 0:04
  So walk me through that.
• 0:05
  I was really obsessed with like Steve Jobs and branding and high end luxury branding.
• 0:10
  I was like, what if I like build like a weight loss product?
• 0:12
  But it was like high luxury, high value, but it also tastes amazing and smelled amazing.
• 0:18
  And that was what became my obsession.
• 0:19
  Today's guest is Michael Gonzalez, the entrepreneur behind Fit T, who built the brand from a personal solution into a business that generated over $100 million in product sales.
• 0:29
  In this conversation, he shares what he's learned about branding, entrepreneurship, and building businesses in the age of AI.
• 0:35
  Do you feel like you would have been happier if you played a little bit smaller?
• 0:39
  I think...
• 0:40
  If I could go back in time, I definitely would have said no way more.
• 0:43
  Not every opportunity is an opportunity.
• 0:45
  I think figuring out what your rich is, define that as a person, like what you want.
• 0:51
  What are the opportunities you see now?
• 0:53
  I still think people buy from people.
• 0:55
  So be 100% yourself.
• 0:57
  Don't be fake.
• 0:57
  Just be 100%.
• 0:58
  As much as I'm obsessed with AI, I still think humans are humans.
• 1:02
  And we need to like still gravitate toward the human experience.
• 1:09
  My fitness pal is a success story partner.
• 1:11
  Now, there's this thing that happens when you start paying attention to what you eat.
• 1:15
  And I think we can all agree that we want to care about our health and our wellness and our nutrition.
• 1:19
  But more often than not, we just kind of think we eat clean.
• 1:22
  We think we eat healthy, but we're not really, really paying attention to every single meal.
• 1:27
  and what makes up every single meal.
• 1:29
  But just by paying attention and starting to log and track what you eat, you start making better choices without really trying.
• 1:37
  And that surprised me because when I first started using the MyFitnessPal app, and I've been using it for a while now, it's a nutrition tracking app, and I started logging what I was eating, it started showing me my macros, which means how much protein, carbs, and fats I was getting.
• 1:50
  And then I started to understand why some days I felt good, high energy.
• 1:53
  Some days I felt like garbage because those three things, proteins, carbs, fats, that's what your food is made out of.
• 2:00
  And the balance between them affects everything.
• 2:03
  So my fitness pal app truly changed my life when it came to managing my food, which managed and helped everything else.
• 2:11
  Now, on the premium version of the app, it breaks down those numbers by meal.
• 2:15
  So I'm not just seeing one calorie number for the day.
• 2:18
  I can see what's happening at breakfast versus lunch versus dinner, where my protein actually lands, whether I'm eating enough earlier in the day or piling everything on at night.
• 2:27
  And all of a sudden,
• 2:28
  When I'm crashing at 3, 4 p.m., well, I can take a look and see, it's not so surprising anymore based on what I ate or what I didn't eat.
• 2:35
  So that's what I mean when I say that MyFitnessPal is a great app for awareness.
• 2:40
  It's not obsessive, it's not stressful, it's not time-consuming, it's actually the opposite.
• 2:45
  Guessing is stressful.
• 2:46
  When you have all the information, the food you eat, your nutrition...
• 2:50
  becomes way easier to keep up with.
• 2:53
  Also, a lot of people stress out that logging food is gonna be very time consuming.
• 2:57
  It's not.
• 2:58
  And if it was annoying, I'd stop.
• 2:59
  But what I love about the app is that they've made it super, super simple.
• 3:03
  They've removed all friction in food logging, right?
• 3:06
  They have the largest food database out there.
• 3:08
  So whatever I'm eating is already in it.
• 3:10
  I can voice log so I can just say what I'm eating.
• 3:13
  They have a barcode scanner that handles all the package stuff.
• 3:16
  They have a tool called MealScan, which lets me point my camera at my plate and it breaks down all the macros and then logs it for breakfast, lunch, dinner, whatever.
• 3:24
  And the app remembers my regular meals.
• 3:26
  And I'm really just in and out of the app in seconds.
• 3:29
  And on top of that, it connects with over 40 fitness apps and wearables.
• 3:32
  So my workouts, my nutrition, they're all in one place.
• 3:35
  See, food is the foundation of everything.
• 3:38
  your energy, your sleep, your weight, your recovery, your performance at work, at home.
• 3:43
  And I really believe that when you start to pay attention to what you eat, every single part of your life improves.
• 3:47
  And to be honest, for me, it's the most useful tool because when I see the information, when I see what I'm eating, and I feel the effects of having good nutrition and good food at the right time, the decisions on what to eat become obvious.
• 4:02
  Not because someone told me to eat better, it's because I have the data.
• 4:06
  And the data makes it super, super easy to stay on track.
• 4:08
  So please do yourself a favor.
• 4:10
  Go to podcast.myfitnesspal.com and use code Scott.
• 4:13
  That's S-C-O-T-T, all uppercase letters, for 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.
• 4:18
  That is podcast.myfitnesspal.com, code Scott, for 15% off MyFitnessPal Premium.
• 4:30
  I want people to understand what you've built.
• 4:34
  So you made Fit T, that's the company you're known for.
• 4:38
  You built it for yourself before you turned it into a business.
• 4:42
  So walk me through that, because I think that's a very interesting idea.
• 4:44
  You solve a problem that you have.
• 4:46
  Yeah, so at the time, and pretty much my whole life, I've struggled with my own weight.
• 4:51
  And, like, people were like, oh, why don't you try, like, weight loss teas at the time?
• 4:55
  And so I went to the store and I got, like, you know, these cheap, you know, detox teas that they had at the store.
• 5:01
  And I had been to Disney prior.
• 5:03
  And Disney did these, like, taste tests for, like, teas.
• 5:06
  But, like, really high-grade teas that taste amazing, that smelled amazing versus, like, these, you know, grocery store weight loss products, right?
• 5:14
  Yeah.
• 5:14
  And I was really obsessed with like Steve Jobs and branding and high-end luxury branding.
• 5:20
  And I was at school at UCF and I was studying these things.
• 5:24
  And I was like, what if I like...
• 5:26
  build like a weight loss product, but it was like high luxury, high value, but it also tastes amazing and smelled amazing.
• 5:33
  And that was what became my obsession of like making like the ultimate version of this like really low end product.
• 5:40
  So many entrepreneurs try and solve problems that are trendy or they feel like there's a gold rush opportunity and they have FOMO.
• 5:49
  And this is why you see people that were jumping into crypto projects 10 years ago, which is
• 5:55
  It seems like it was just yesterday, but how many horrible crypto projects were propped up overnight, or everybody jumping into AI right now, or CPG at some point.
• 6:04
  So I think that the idea of solving a problem for yourself is a great place to start, because you already know there's a gap in the market.
• 6:12
  But before Fitty, I think you are the definition of serial entrepreneur.
• 6:18
  You can't not be an entrepreneur.
• 6:21
  How many things didn't work?
• 6:23
  Uh, we had the funniest one was, uh, like, um, they were guinea pigs and we were gonna mate them and then sell them for like snake food.
• 6:32
  You're saying actually guinea pigs, not guinea pigs anecdotally as like a test idea.
• 6:37
  Like, like I literally, I didn't have a place and my mom had a condo.
• 6:40
  So like I had two or three or something like that.
• 6:43
  And my buddy's like...
• 6:44
  Yeah, we put them in my backyard and we could breed them and then we'll start selling them.
• 6:47
  And that was not a good idea.
• 6:49
  That was not a good business idea.
• 6:51
  I had like lukewarm success too, like in other businesses.
• 6:55
  Like my education in e-commerce really was because...
• 7:00
  at my school, they would leave all the lost and found books behind.
• 7:06
  And, you know, months would go by.
• 7:07
  And I finally just told, like, you know, the teachers, like, what happens to these books?
• 7:10
  They're like, oh, we throw them away.
• 7:11
  And I was like, well, can I have them?
• 7:13
  Can I sell them on Amazon, you know?
• 7:16
  And I think at the time, I didn't even know about Amazon.
• 7:18
  I was saying half.com because it was like eBay.
• 7:22
  And so, like, that process was, like, such a free education.
• 7:26
  Like, I didn't know back then.
• 7:27
  I was just trying to make a little bit of money, you know?
• 7:29
  And these books were so expensive, like $200,000, $300,000 for one book, you know.
• 7:34
  And then, you know, I would list them and then ship them and handle the customer service.
• 7:39
  It was such a free education of what e-commerce would be, right?
• 7:43
  And I got it totally anecdotal, you know, just by being like in the right space at the right time and having this like free inventory.
• 7:51
  Um, and then of course there's like all these like random businesses.
• 7:54
  Like my best friend was really in the comics and he was like, Oh, I don't only buy a bunch of bulk books and then flatten them.
• 8:00
  And then we'll send them to a grading company.
• 8:02
  And this is way before like this hype now, like CTC and all this, like, you know, grading stuff.
• 8:08
  And, uh,
• 8:09
  We would press them and make the margin in between and list them on eBay.
• 8:13
  So fortunately, I had him, too, to kind of, like, educate me on this idea of, like, you can do this immense value so something that would be, like, $100 can turn into $10,000.
• 8:22
  Because, like, my mindset was, like, only still, like, I only had to sell, like, $45, you know what I mean?
• 8:27
  Not $10,000.
• 8:28
  So...
• 8:29
  Um, fortunately for me, I had like a lot of like anecdotal good successes that led to like Fitzy.
• 8:35
  Everything that you did, it was, it was marginally successful, not home run though.
• 8:41
  I guess the question is somebody who is born entrepreneurial, like somebody who's, you know, finding free textbook inventory and then selling it online.
• 8:53
  Every time you have these entrepreneur stories, you always hear the early entrepreneurs selling the lemonade stand or arbitraging Pokemon cards or what Gary Vee does at garage sales.
• 9:07
  You always have these first signals that someone's going to be an entrepreneur.
• 9:15
  I'm curious if somebody didn't grow up like that.
• 9:18
  Do you think they have a chance of building something successful?
• 9:22
  Or do you think they have to go through this repeat failure period?
• 9:26
  I say failure because it's not a home run.
• 9:29
  It's not like $100 million in sales.
• 9:31
  It's not a huge...
• 9:32
  Do you think like that's the education or can somebody who is coming from a nine to five parents, nine to five, do you think they have a chance?
• 9:40
  Everyone has a chance as long as they determine what they want to do.
• 9:43
  They take actionable steps to that thing and then they measure what happened.
• 9:48
  Right.
• 9:49
  And then rinse and repeat because the measure part might not be fair.
• 9:52
  You know what I mean?
• 9:54
  It might not be the thing that you wanted.
• 9:55
  It might actually be a failure.
• 9:57
  But if you measure out like, oh, I learned how to do this or I got educated in this and it may be time, you know, a big chunk of time that you're doing that because, I mean, a lot of those things were years that I was doing in the beginning.
• 10:07
  And I didn't realize back then that it was like super important that I had done that.
• 10:13
  And it wasn't like huge money.
• 10:14
  But at least it gave me like a form of education of like what would be an online business.
• 10:19
  Right.
• 10:19
  Like just fortunately, like, you know, Basil's obviously Amazon becomes the biggest thing in the world.
• 10:24
  But if you go back then, it's very early, you know, still in its infancies.
• 10:28
  And in definitely infancies in terms of people selling on the platform.
• 10:31
  Like I remember it being like really, really early on.
• 10:35
  And as far as like, you know, anyone can, I think anyone can do anything as long as they have this spirit to endure that testing phase.
• 10:44
  Because you can have an idea.
• 10:45
  You can take action steps to do the idea.
• 10:48
  But it's really the fundamental of what I think an entrepreneur is, is that last little piece is the, you know, the wounds that you get from people.
• 10:56
  from it not being fair because capitalism isn't fair.
• 10:59
  It's not for everyone.
• 11:01
  It's almost like failure is the prerequisite.
• 11:03
  So the sooner you can lean into things that you test them, they don't work, you learn, like the sooner you have a chance of getting something to actually work.
• 11:10
  And really be like open-minded to what that data set is.
• 11:15
  Because sometimes it's not as clear cut, like a dollar per dollar.
• 11:19
  You know what I mean?
• 11:19
  It could be fundamental changes in how you think, fundamental changes of how you approach business in the future.
• 11:25
  Maybe that business leads to a sour relationship.
• 11:29
  Because a lot of times there's people buy from people.
• 11:32
  People sell to people.
• 11:33
  And people do business with people.
• 11:35
  And at the end of the day, that's also like a learning lesson that it's not so...
• 11:40
  It's not so easy to define.
• 11:41
  Yeah, so the relationship that you built from trying the thing didn't work out so well, but where does that relationship lead to in the future?
• 11:49
  And how you interact with people in the future.
• 11:51
  Maybe in the future, oh, I see that red flag.
• 11:53
  I'm not going to do that again with that type of person.
• 11:55
  Or, oh, this guy's a really good guy.
• 11:57
  I want to really work with him because that worked out well last time.
• 12:01
  Multiple marginal successes and some failures before Fit Tea.
• 12:06
  You said you built Fit Tea for yourself.
• 12:08
  How did you know when it was going to be more than just something that was another, I don't know, like a semi-successful project, but something that was actually going to work?
• 12:17
  What was the point where it started to take off?
• 12:21
  So for me, I was just really blessed.
• 12:23
  And it was literally day one.
• 12:25
  Because I had ran online businesses at this point, maybe like six years.
• 12:29
  So I was like building websites for people.
• 12:32
  I was doing SEO.
• 12:33
  I had an SEO company called PageWell that I sold to a design company.
• 12:37
  So the little bit of monies that I had saved from all this stuff was the investment into 50.
• 12:42
  It was like 10 grand.
• 12:43
  And plus working at a job.
• 12:45
  And 50 was just like a spark.
• 12:48
  I was just really fortunate because I basically saw the feature in Instagram.
• 12:53
  Like right the moment that the link became available on Instagram, I was like, this could be a place to drive traffic.
• 12:59
  Because I was always watching analytics.
• 13:01
  The moment I knew that my whole life had changed.
• 13:03
  Because I took like, I think it was like $600 that I paid people to talk about my product on Instagram.
• 13:08
  And nobody was doing this.
• 13:09
  So it was like $30 a post.
• 13:11
  It was nothing crazy.
• 13:13
  was watching the analytics and the sales that were coming in from PayPal.
• 13:17
  Because the website was a jerry-rigged website.
• 13:19
  There was no Shopify.
• 13:19
  Well, there was Shopify, but there wasn't a Shopify that I was using.
• 13:22
  Like I was using just a HTML website that I built with hyperlinks to PayPal.
• 13:26
  And the PayPal notifications started coming in.
• 13:28
  So I'll get one as the ads started going up on Instagram.
• 13:32
  But it was really watching analytics.
• 13:33
  Like it went from like the most I had ever seen was probably like 16 people live on the site.
• 13:39
  And it was like 16,000.
• 13:40
  And I was just like, I thought it was a glitch at first.
• 13:43
  How much money was this?
• 13:44
  I did the first day we did over, I think it was like $16,000 worth of sales on the first night.
• 13:50
  I didn't even have the product.
• 13:51
  And this was running ads on Instagram really early days.
• 13:53
  Yeah, it's just literally paying someone to talk about the product and tagging us.
• 13:57
  And then it had just, you know, we didn't even have Fit Tea.
• 14:00
  It was called Fat Loss Tea at the time.
• 14:02
  Like the domain, the handle.
• 14:06
  We didn't have it for the first like two years.
• 14:10
  But yeah, watching the traffic just fly in and see and obviously the sales started flying into.
• 14:14
  I was like, oh, my God, this is this is going to be humongous.
• 14:16
  I literally called my boss the next day.
• 14:18
  It's like click and and went right at it.
• 14:21
  Like I just put every dollar in time back into the business.
• 14:24
  It's so interesting how like when something is working, it really works.
• 14:33
  It's I think there's this narrative that entrepreneurship and building a business and just honestly life in general has to be harder than it is sometimes.
• 14:42
  I notice this a lot in my space in media.
• 14:45
  When media works, it works.
• 14:48
  And I see people going for years doing shit that doesn't work.
• 14:51
  I see it with entrepreneurs as well.
• 14:54
  I don't think they all have success as quick as you, but I still notice like, okay, if it's working, there are clear signs that this is like moving in the right direction.
• 15:02
  And a lot of people who are super ambitious and they're good entrepreneurs and they have all the right personality quirks of what an entrepreneur has to have,
• 15:12
  Sometimes they fall into the trap of doing the thing for an extended period of time, even when it's not working, but they keep like hammering away at it.
• 15:21
  And, you know, to quote Kevin O'Leary, there's a point where you have to take it behind the barn and shoot it.
• 15:27
  And I don't think a lot of people know when that point is.
• 15:29
  So there's sort of two opposite ends of the spectrum.
• 15:33
  There's people that are afraid to even start.
• 15:37
  And then there's people that start and they never quit.
• 15:40
  And that second group of people, there's way less advice for them.
• 15:43
  There's a lot of advice on how to start and how to get your ass off the couch and to go build something or to go take action.
• 15:49
  There's not a lot of advice on is it working marginally?
• 15:54
  Is it like kind of a lost cause?
• 15:56
  Should you be pivoting and iterating and maybe you're too married to your original idea and it's actually hurting you more than helping you?
• 16:04
  Fit T is an example of how something can really work when it really is like right time, right place, right marketing, right market, right product.
• 16:14
  What's your advice?
• 16:15
  Like how does somebody figure out if what they're working on is something they should keep doing or they should pivot it?
• 16:21
  I had it both ways, right?
• 16:22
  So Fit T...
• 16:23
  Crazy success right off the rip.
• 16:25
  Blessing.
• 16:26
  Growth out of control.
• 16:27
  Obviously, I had no infrastructure, so I'm growing as trying to build everything and trying to figure things out.
• 16:32
  Are you shipping shit out of your garage at this point?
• 16:34
  I started in my parents' condominium.
• 16:37
  Literally, we were just cutting it back in and selling it.
• 16:40
  Literally doing all the hand labeling, hand sealing.
• 16:43
  I was driving it to the post office.
• 16:46
  Everything was done very manual.
• 16:48
  I didn't even understand how to do really shipping at this time because...
• 16:53
  You know, it was stamps.com, but the labels were, like, actually printed.
• 16:56
  They weren't – it was a very big challenge.
• 17:00
  And as far as, like, the – when to pivot is really have a measurable – just, like, trading, like, actual, like, stop loss of, like, what is the failure rate of your business?
• 17:11
  And you have to be, like, kind of truthful, like, honest with yourself.
• 17:15
  Because I think as entrepreneurs, we get really, like –
• 17:18
  dreamy and like positive thinking and like we can push through and anything is possible so 50 had this huge growth in the beginning but as time got grew instagram changed algorithms came facebook came in competitors galore copiers laws lawsuits uh
• 17:36
  infrastructure issues growing too fast.
• 17:39
  Like I didn't understand like, you know, the path of like a really successful business doesn't necessarily need to be Coca-Cola, right?
• 17:47
  Like we could be a really great business in this lane.
• 17:51
  Um, and so like, I also experienced those like questions of like, maybe, maybe we should like stop here.
• 17:58
  Like this is crazy up here.
• 18:00
  Like we could be here.
• 18:02
  Um, I just always remember in terms of like looking back and it's kind of funny that I'm here on my 40th birthday to reflect on these ideas.
• 18:09
  Um,
• 18:10
  is that you got to be really honest with yourself.
• 18:14
  And I think it's really tough for a lot of entrepreneurs to have that vulnerability, especially when if something's not working, because we want to win.
• 18:23
  We have this winner mentality and it's such a bravado space, right?
• 18:26
  Like, oh, I can push through and I, you know, but in reality, you injure your leg and
• 18:33
  in life and maybe you know figuratorily in terms of business um maybe yes let it heal you know what i mean and take that lesson and move on to the next thing and just be crazily brutally honest with those facts you mentioned something interesting too um with scale comes uh you know more money more problems literally so when you were scaling 50 um
• 19:01
  This was your first time in your life ever, you know, playing at this level.
• 19:06
  So a lot of the shit that comes with scaling a company to the size it fits you was, it comes with a lot of headache and stress.
• 19:13
  I lost all my hair.
• 19:15
  It's true.
• 19:16
  Do you ever feel like...
• 19:23
  It's a silly question to ask, but I want people to understand why I'm asking.
• 19:26
  I was going to ask, do you feel like you would have been happier if you played a little bit smaller?
• 19:32
  And the reason why I'm asking that is because I think some entrepreneurs, they don't even know what they want to build.
• 19:39
  They just want to build something, and they don't know why they're building it.
• 19:41
  And then sometimes...
• 19:42
  they raise more money than they need to.
• 19:44
  They take it in, and that means they take it in a direction that they don't even want to take it in.
• 19:48
  They lose control of their company.
• 19:50
  Sometimes it means that it grows so big, but they don't even get a great payout at the end of it because people have such equity positions in the company, such significant equity positions.
• 19:58
  Do you wish that you were a little bit more strategic about how you built it and what it turned into?
• 20:04
  Or are you happy with the end result?
• 20:06
  I think if I could go back in time,
• 20:08
  I definitely would have said no way more.
• 20:11
  Not every opportunity is an opportunity.
• 20:13
  I think figuring out what your rich is, define that as a person, what you want.
• 20:20
  Because I think it's limiting for someone to me on the internet, you're listening to me, going, oh, limit your goals and where you want to be.
• 20:28
  There's billionaires out there, right?
• 20:29
  Yeah.
• 20:30
  But I also think figure out what's rich to you and then try to aim for that goal.
• 20:35
  And then I think hyper focus is under like under talked about in our space.
• 20:40
  Right.
• 20:41
  It's like do more, be greater, run harder, make more, multiple SKUs.
• 20:45
  You can do this.
• 20:47
  And I look back to 50 and why I was so successful in the beginnings was it literally had two SKUs.
• 20:53
  You know, there's only so many bullets that you can shoot at marketing, especially if you're using only like I was I was fortunate enough to like grow my business steadily with my own cash from the business.
• 21:04
  You didn't raise?
• 21:05
  I raised no money.
• 21:06
  I used from I turned 10K to the business that it became like it was all just hyper looped back into the business.
• 21:11
  I was just insanely focused in terms of always putting the money back into the business, never taking anything for myself at a big scale within the business.
• 21:19
  Yeah.
• 21:21
  But it's hard to stay so focused.
• 21:24
  So like for me in my past, I think I would have said no a lot more, a lot more.
• 21:30
  There would have been things we wouldn't have done.
• 21:32
  There was infrastructure things that was unnecessary, but it was more like I want to be the best.
• 21:37
  I want to be the biggest.
• 21:38
  I'm the baddest.
• 21:39
  And this bravado of my own self became into the business, but it was actually a weakness, right?
• 21:43
  Like it took away monies from the business.
• 21:46
  By being so aggressive about the different things that you were going after.
• 21:49
  And sometimes it's just ego.
• 21:51
  Right.
• 21:51
  Like the business is doing so successful and you start doing more and more and more and more and more.
• 21:56
  All of a sudden I'm less focused.
• 21:58
  I'm tired.
• 21:59
  I can't keep my focus on any of the projects.
• 22:01
  I'm saying yes to everything.
• 22:03
  And then you start having like cracks in your system.
• 22:06
  And you don't even realize it.
• 22:08
  And you think you're growing big, big, big, big, big, big, big.
• 22:11
  But in reality, you're putting things into the armor.
• 22:14
  But your ego is saying, oh, I'm getting bigger.
• 22:16
  I'm getting bigger.
• 22:16
  I'm putting more money in.
• 22:19
  Hyperfocused is an underconversation in the entrepreneur space.
• 22:23
  I think also building something that serves your life.
• 22:27
  Like you mentioned before, like, what are your riches?
• 22:29
  I don't think enough entrepreneurs have that conversation with themselves.
• 22:32
  Like when they start, they're just like, I want to be the next Elon Musk.
• 22:35
  I want to have a trillion dollar company.
• 22:37
  And they realize, hopefully they realize at some point, is that actually what's serving your life goals?
• 22:44
  Do you want to be bigger, never be home, always be stressed, always be going after, you know, the next, adding another zero to your top line revenue strategy?
• 22:54
  Some people, yes.
• 22:55
  Very few people actually need that level of business to be happy.
• 22:58
  They're truly, truly happy in life.
• 23:00
  I think that most people just want to make a little bit more money than their 9 to 5.
• 23:04
  And that would give them a great life.
• 23:07
  I'm curious why you sold it.
• 23:09
  So $100 million in revenue.
• 23:13
  You will still never tell me how much you sold it for, which is fine.
• 23:15
  But $100 million in revenue is a great business.
• 23:17
  You've worked that, like, you know...
• 23:19
  for people who don't know the whole journey, you worked with Kardashians, you had like huge A-list celebrities, influencers.
• 23:26
  You kind of invented influencer marketing to a degree, considering how early you were on Instagram.
• 23:32
  But why sell it?
• 23:34
  So at this point in my life, I had already did a lot of the goals that I wanted for the business, like me personally.
• 23:41
  Like my original thesis was, I want to start with a high-end tea product and eventually become like a beverage business.
• 23:47
  That was like always my obsession.
• 23:48
  Like I was like, oh,
• 23:49
  How can we become this beverage business?
• 23:51
  I had this obsession.
• 23:52
  And I wanted to do it with all my own money.
• 23:54
  I didn't want to raise money.
• 23:55
  I wanted to do it all myself.
• 23:56
  I wanted to build my own infrastructures.
• 23:58
  And we had like one of the largest tea manufacturing facilities in Orlando.
• 24:02
  We could do 180 bags a minute.
• 24:04
  And...
• 24:06
  I did all these really high-level achievements.
• 24:08
  I was already in almost every retail store.
• 24:11
  We were killing it and skew.
• 24:13
  But I was exhausted.
• 24:15
  Me as a person, my relationships were sacrificed.
• 24:18
  Whether that was my close personal buddies, those relationships were sacrificed.
• 24:22
  My personal life was sacrificed.
• 24:26
  My health was sacrificed.
• 24:27
  I went through an anxiety disorder for a year.
• 24:29
  That was right before you sold it, correct?
• 24:31
  Literally right before I sold the business.
• 24:34
  And I just, I was exhausted of traveling to retail giants, you know, facilities or storefronts.
• 24:40
  Because once you get into like a big box store and you're doing all these, like, you're constantly going to meet with them.
• 24:48
  And I was always on a plane back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.
• 24:51
  And so I just felt like I was at a point where I was like, I'm just, I think it's going to be a detriment to the business, right?
• 24:56
  Like, I think it's going to hurt the business if I continue, you know, holding on to this.
• 25:00
  And I could see it in the numbers too.
• 25:02
  Trends were changing.
• 25:03
  Times were changing.
• 25:05
  And I was like, do I want to fight this battle, right?
• 25:08
  Like...
• 25:09
  in terms of the business, was that my responsibility because I made it doesn't mean I have to stay in it.
• 25:14
  And I made all this value too.
• 25:15
  I'm like, what if I don't have the will to keep it at this value?
• 25:20
  And at this point, it's just you because you never raise money.
• 25:22
  So you are – I'm taking all the grenades in the foxhole by myself.
• 25:27
  So I made the hard decision because it was my baby to sell it.
• 25:32
  In hindsight now, it was the best decision I could have made.
• 25:36
  But, yeah, it definitely was definitely because of, like, too many fronts were getting hit.
• 25:42
  And I was just like, ooh, I don't think I can do this anymore.
• 25:45
  So you don't regret?
• 25:46
  No, I don't regret it, no.
• 25:48
  It definitely was time.
• 25:51
  The only thing I look back now is the person that I, like, gave it to.
• 25:57
  probably wasn't the best suitor for my baby.
• 25:59
  Bro, that happens so many times.
• 26:00
  Like I tell entrepreneurs now, if I could go back in time in terms of like the sale of my business, date the person, date figuratively, the person that's going to buy your business, like spend like an intimate amount of time, like way more than you would think, like to the point that you would like, oh, I'm uncomfortable spending this much time with these people because then you'll get to really know if you're going to sell it to them and you're going to do this transitional period or you're going to be on team, like I stay on team.
• 26:25
  Like definitely spend some time with these people because you have no clue once you close the doors and then you're in there for months and you're like, oh, my God, what was I thinking?
• 26:32
  You know what I mean?
• 26:33
  That that that happened.
• 26:35
  So it's like it just is what it is.
• 26:37
  50 was how long were you building 50 for?
• 26:40
  So 50 was an eight year business, a year business when you sell it.
• 26:45
  that first couple months after you sell it.
• 26:47
  So I'm curious who you were as a person with Outfit T, because that was your baby.
• 26:54
  After the exit, you weren't super happy, it sounds like, with the person who bought it.
• 26:59
  So, you know, you as an entrepreneur, as a person, did you have,
• 27:05
  And this was also when you were having anxiety issues because of the business.
• 27:10
  So it's like really parallel.
• 27:11
  Like my recovery was like literally I was almost recovered from my disorder right as it were exiting.
• 27:18
  So like I'm getting back to my old self.
• 27:20
  I'm feeling like a businessman again.
• 27:21
  So the post exit, you were in a good space.
• 27:24
  Oh, yeah.
• 27:24
  I was in a good space.
• 27:25
  Yeah.
• 27:26
  But prior to that, there was like a year there where I didn't leave my house.
• 27:29
  Like for a full calendar year, I did not leave the house that one time.
• 27:32
  Um, so I was like getting better.
• 27:35
  I was recovering.
• 27:36
  Um, I was in a good headspace in terms of like that, like my, like the disorder.
• 27:42
  So I was like totally, totally good again.
• 27:44
  Um, but it.
• 27:48
  The transition of like being a high level entrepreneur with this very super successful brand that's like worldwide renowned.
• 27:55
  And then it you're not the owner anymore and you're not the decision maker anymore.
• 28:01
  It gets really quiet really quickly.
• 28:04
  Like I don't think people realize how quickly, like literally day and night from like one week to the next.
• 28:11
  And then it's like radio silent.
• 28:13
  Yeah, I was still part of the team.
• 28:15
  Right.
• 28:15
  And I was still going to the office because the office still was there.
• 28:18
  But it was like it was massively different.
• 28:20
  Right.
• 28:21
  And but then also at the same time, the transitional period is an odd experience because it's kind of icky because the people like, again, why I say go date the people that are going to buy you is that now you give them this thing and they do it their way.
• 28:36
  You know what I mean?
• 28:37
  And then you go, oh, I don't know.
• 28:39
  You know, I don't.
• 28:41
  But you've sold it.
• 28:42
  You know what I mean?
• 28:42
  You don't have a choice anymore.
• 28:44
  And so it took a long time for me to start accepting that role and that position.
• 28:48
  But really, it's after the fact that I no longer was on the team.
• 28:52
  So once I leave Fit T, like for good, like we're done.
• 28:55
  I no longer are part of the core component of the team.
• 28:57
  Did you stay on for a couple of months?
• 28:59
  I stayed on for like five months or something like that.
• 29:02
  And then I was like, yeah.
• 29:04
  And yeah.
• 29:05
  Once I was off the team, it's really when it was a bizarre time for me because I have the successful exit.
• 29:11
  Now I'm done.
• 29:12
  And it's just like, what do I do now?
• 29:15
  Like, it's like, what's next?
• 29:17
  And who am I?
• 29:18
  And I was always defined by this business.
• 29:20
  And that's Michael from 50.
• 29:22
  And still to this day, people go, Michael from 50.
• 29:23
  And it's like...
• 29:25
  it's kind of bizarre because it's 50 so long ago now at this point.
• 29:28
  And, uh, it's a hard, like, I don't like even now, you know, reflecting cause it's my 40th birthday.
• 29:37
  It's such a hard thing.
• 29:38
  Like, no one really talks about that era for business.
• 29:41
  Because, you know, number one, not to toot my own horn, not a lot of people get there.
• 29:45
  And then the people that do get there, there's not a lot of conversations.
• 29:48
  Oh, it's a very lonely space.
• 29:49
  And so, oh, poor guy.
• 29:50
  He sold your company.
• 29:51
  Boo-hoo.
• 29:52
  You know?
• 29:52
  But there's, like, a psychological aspect.
• 29:55
  of, I almost feel like people should be ready for that too.
• 29:58
  You know what I mean?
• 29:59
  Like have like a define, like who I am and where I'm going and why I'm going to do this and what's next.
• 30:03
  Life at the Speed of Play is a success story partner.
• 30:06
  Now this is a book by Mark Pincus, the guy who founded Zynga.
• 30:09
  I've actually had him on the show.
• 30:10
  I met him in person and Reid Hoffman wrote the foreword calling him one of the best idea people in Silicon Valley.
• 30:16
  The book is Life at the Speed of Play, Launch Products People Love, about 170 pages.
• 30:22
  It's already a national bestseller.
• 30:23
  It's his framework.
• 30:24
  or figuring out whether an idea is actually worth going after before you put serious time and money into it.
• 30:30
  Not theory, the way he actually does it.
• 30:31
  And he's repeatedly built successful businesses.
• 30:34
  On top of that, you can read it in a weekend.
• 30:36
  It can change your entire life and give you the right direction if you're an entrepreneur.
• 30:39
  So right now, if you go to getmarksbook.com slash success, you get two copies for $32.
• 30:43
  That's $16 each.
• 30:46
  Mark is paying for the second copy himself because he wants you to give it to somebody, a friend who's been sitting on an idea, someone who needs to push, whoever.
• 30:52
  That's getmarksbook.com slash success.
• 30:55
  Mark with a K, buy one, second one's free.
• 30:58
  MyFitnessPal is a success story partner.
• 31:00
  Now, a quick story.
• 31:01
  A few weeks ago, I was in the middle of a very heavy recording week.
• 31:04
  So five episodes back to back.
• 31:06
  By Wednesday, I could feel it.
• 31:07
  I felt tired and I pulled up my food log in the MyFitnessPal app.
• 31:12
  and I could see why I felt tired.
• 31:15
  I was heavily under eating.
• 31:17
  I was not keeping up with my meals.
• 31:19
  My macros were all off.
• 31:20
  On weeks like that, staying on top of your fuel and your food and what you eat is the difference between being sharp on episode five and being flat.
• 31:28
  And that's the kind of thing you only catch when you're paying attention.
• 31:31
  And that's why I keep logging every single meal I eat in the MyFitnessPal app.
• 31:35
  It's not because I'm obsessing over numbers.
• 31:37
  It's not because I'm trying to diet.
• 31:39
  It's because I'm trying to have an awareness about what I eat in the day.
• 31:43
  And the app makes it so easy to maintain that awareness.
• 31:46
  I can point my camera at a plate with MealScan
• 31:49
  It'll tell me exactly what I'm eating, all my macronutrients, proteins, fats, carbs.
• 31:54
  There's an intermittent fasting tracker.
• 31:56
  If I want an intermittent fast, it keeps my eating window honest.
• 31:59
  And it all syncs with my watch and all of my fitness apps.
• 32:02
  And it just runs in the background.
• 32:04
  See, food is a foundation for energy, sleep, recovery, performance.
• 32:08
  It is the one input that you cannot skip.
• 32:11
  So do yourself a favor, track what you're eating.
• 32:13
  It'll make you feel better, perform better in everything that you do.
• 32:17
  Go to podcasts.myfitnesspal.com and use code Scott, all uppercase for 50% off MyFitnessPal Premium.
• 32:24
  That's podcasts.myfitnesspal.com, code Scott.
• 32:27
  HubSpot is a success story partner.
• 32:29
  Every entrepreneur, founder, CEOs listening right now needs to pay attention.
• 32:34
  I have a question for you.
• 32:35
  When a buyer asks AI for a solution or a product that your business sells, does your business come up?
• 32:43
  The answer is that most companies have no idea.
• 32:46
  They don't know if their name shows up in any of the AI tools, chat, perplexity, Claude.
• 32:54
  And by the time they find out, they have lost tons of traffic and tons of deals to someone who did show up.
• 33:00
  HubSpot AEO.
• 33:02
  It helps you show up in those moments with the right answers that your customers and your buyers are looking for when they go type in a question.
• 33:10
  It's before the first click, it's before they fill out some form on your website,
• 33:14
  that is the moment that HubSpot AEO is built for.
• 33:19
  So if you want your company to show up in AI searches when your customer is looking, check out HubSpot.com.
• 33:25
  They are the agentic customer platform for growing businesses.
• 33:29
  I believe there should be more conversations about it because I've had so many conversations with founders, a lot of exited founders.
• 33:36
  So this comes up quite a
• 33:41
  Entrepreneurs in general just don't do enough work on themselves because they're distracted by the business.
• 33:47
  So what happens is while they're building, there's stress, there's anxiety, there's depression sometimes.
• 33:54
  People feel like the founder feels like they're all alone, kind of like what happened in like your last year.
• 33:58
  This is not so uncommon, especially if it's their first big thing.
• 34:02
  And then after they lose their sense of identity.
• 34:05
  So after sort of going through everything,
• 34:08
  In all seriousness, the worst things, I mean, I say worse very loosely because I don't want to sound like exiting a company is not an incredibly great event in somebody's life.
• 34:19
  Yes, but this is a podcast that a lot of founders listen to.
• 34:22
  So it's important to talk about these subjects, even if there's a huge success.
• 34:27
  There's a whole bunch of shit that comes with that success.
• 34:29
  What is your advice for founders when they're going through a dark period when they're building their company, but also for the select few that do exit?
• 34:37
  Because all of it is like the advice is all about like self-work and making sure that you actually focus on yourself and not just the business.
• 34:45
  So I would say those two groups of people, the founder that's in it right now that is depressed, has anxiety, is probably going through something like what you went through.
• 34:55
  But then the second piece is, okay, so after they get through that and they sell, what's the playbook so that you don't lose yourself and your identity and you realize that, okay, the business was important, but I'm more than just the business.
• 35:07
  I want you to walk through those.
• 35:09
  There's two facets.
• 35:10
  So, like, I always recommend Dr. Clara Weeks, Hope and Help for Your Nerves.
• 35:14
  Yeah.
• 35:15
  It's a she was a research scientist.
• 35:17
  She was a doctor and she had patients that would come in.
• 35:19
  This was like in the 50s, 40s, 50s.
• 35:22
  And she realized that they had symptoms that she couldn't explain as a physician.
• 35:26
  And there wasn't a lot of like mental health conversations at those times.
• 35:30
  And she was fortunately for for for me in the future.
• 35:34
  She was a research scientist.
• 35:35
  So she started researching her parents patients and realizing that people that experience like high level anxiety, panic attacks, depression, they have this obsession over their symptoms.
• 35:45
  Number one, they cannot accept their symptoms and they have a hard time controlling their thought patterns in terms of the symptoms that they're experiencing from anxiety.
• 35:54
  anxiety is scary for most people.
• 35:56
  Like it's a very, especially at high levels, it can be like a traumatic moment of a person's life.
• 36:01
  It's a shock core.
• 36:03
  And it's just so random in nature.
• 36:05
  Like for me, it was like I had a panic attack one day and I was like, what the hell just happened to me?
• 36:09
  I'm going to the hospital.
• 36:10
  And then I had another one the next day and then the following week.
• 36:13
  And then I was nervous all the time all of a sudden.
• 36:15
  And then I became obsessed over my symptoms and my feelings.
• 36:18
  And towards those, all of a sudden, I couldn't accept how I was feeling.
• 36:23
  Because I was this high-flying businessman, no fear, jump off a plane, let's do it.
• 36:28
  And all of a sudden, I couldn't even leave my house.
• 36:31
  And it's so human.
• 36:33
  It's such a human experience.
• 36:34
  And you don't realize it when you're going through it.
• 36:37
  And fortunately for me, you know, I find the work of Dr. Claire Weeks after I went to doctor after doctor after doctor, psychologist.
• 36:43
  Nobody can make me better.
• 36:44
  Pill.
• 36:44
  Here's pills, pills, pills, pills, pills.
• 36:46
  And it's such a simple, simple logic.
• 36:49
  Loosen, allow and accept.
• 36:51
  And acceptance is a strength.
• 36:54
  It's more powerful than people realize because once you practice it, the beauty is we can practice it every day.
• 37:00
  So if you're going through anxiety, if you're going through panic attacks, practice loosening, allow it to happen and totally accept it as if it was your closest friend.
• 37:08
  So when you're feeling those feelings or you're feeling the nervousness, let your hands shake.
• 37:13
  Let them.
• 37:13
  They're still good hands.
• 37:14
  She talks about that in her book.
• 37:16
  And so I put that as a practice.
• 37:17
  I became totally obsessed with her reading and totally put it into practice.
• 37:22
  And slowly but surely, she was right.
• 37:23
  And her writing is very like journal aspect.
• 37:27
  So she would talk to almost like your friend.
• 37:30
  She would talk to you.
• 37:31
  And you really could relate because you were going through these like really high level moments.
• 37:36
  So that's what I tell entrepreneurs all the time about her work.
• 37:39
  And how the effect it had on me, I'm totally healed.
• 37:41
  It's been such a long period of time.
• 37:43
  And anytime I get those feelings now, I have my shield with me at all times of acceptance that I can literally pull out of my pocket.
• 37:50
  And the same feelings kind of dissipate and then I feel better.
• 37:55
  And then as far as like the ego trip of like success and like...
• 38:01
  really for me where it came down to was like what was I focusing on and really like defining who I wanted to be as a man and how I wanted to represent myself going into the future and what was my riches like my family my time with my friends my the little things that I really enjoy like was unapologetically that's what I like and that's what I'm gonna do so like the personal life the same way
• 38:26
  And just really finding your passions again, like in terms of like, okay, you have this wonderful business and maybe it doesn't necessarily need to be a business again.
• 38:36
  But you can work, you can like, I didn't want to start another big company, right?
• 38:39
  Like I was like, oh, I don't think, I think, I don't think I want to like do another big company, but I want to be a part of, I still want to be a part of like entrepreneurship and like consulting is like a perfect way of doing that.
• 38:49
  And so like I get to taste the taste, the energy of like early entrepreneurship, because I also think the beauty about me is luckily I get to taste like early infancies of business.
• 38:59
  And so I can give my bestow my wisdom.
• 39:01
  I can be onk in the in the conversation.
• 39:04
  But at the same time, I don't necessarily I'm never going to be able to be that again.
• 39:07
  You know what I mean?
• 39:08
  The spark of like early entrepreneur and the beginnings of a business.
• 39:12
  It's a once in a lifetime experience.
• 39:15
  But I can kind of taste it, you know, like, oh, let me get the drug, man.
• 39:18
  Let me try it.
• 39:20
  And I still can, like, be at least, like, in high-level business conversations without taking on this huge inherent risk of, like, building something, like, massive.
• 39:28
  That was, for you, it took you a couple years to get to that point, though.
• 39:32
  You took some time.
• 39:36
  But you were able to actually take time and chill and relax, not just jump into something right away.
• 39:41
  Yeah.
• 39:42
  Yeah, that's pretty much, like, if you get to know me, like, I'm, like, the smartest lazy guy you'll ever meet.
• 39:48
  Like, it's just, like, I like doing what I do.
• 39:52
  I try to figure out ways, like, build systems, and then, like, eh.
• 39:56
  Maybe you realize this, but I think you're actually very healed.
• 39:58
  And I think some of the work that you've done on yourself has allowed you to have a more relaxed post-exit than a lot of the people that I speak to.
• 40:07
  Who have a week and then anxiety creeps in because now their identity is ambiguous.
• 40:14
  And then they jump into the next business almost immediately.
• 40:17
  I mean, I had those moments, but then I was like, nah.
• 40:22
  since now or like like i put those like passions into other things because like it's like uh man starting a business like start like sometimes i would like oh i'd brainstorm like i can make a
• 40:35
  And I put it together and then I'll do like the preliminary like steps and I'm like putting this in a file, maybe in the future.
• 40:41
  Right.
• 40:42
  And I get that feelings of like I'm doing it because it's I mean, it's really hard to like stop doing like the the introspective like puzzle of a business.
• 40:51
  Right.
• 40:51
  So like you're constantly there's so many core pieces of like what a company is in a business.
• 40:56
  But then it's like it's OK just to like.
• 40:59
  relax and like enjoy life and play video games and smoke cigars and drive cars and not do mistakes time is sure you're gonna die someday i think that people sometimes i think entrepreneurship well most entrepreneurs are neurodivergent this is like a stat like people that build things obsessively like they don't they're not always that normal and i think that sometimes building
• 41:31
  it's like masking something.
• 41:33
  Like, why do you throw so much of yourself into your business?
• 41:36
  It's because you're running from something in your life that you're not happy with.
• 41:41
  I mean, even, you know, look at billionaires.
• 41:44
  I have no issue with billionaires.
• 41:46
  I'm not Bernie Sanders.
• 41:47
  I love billionaires.
• 41:48
  Great, but it's not normal.
• 41:51
  to keep playing the game to that point when you have more wealth than you can ever spend, really.
• 41:56
  I mean, and philanthropy doesn't have to start at a... Like, philanthropy can start way earlier.
• 42:01
  So, I don't know.
• 42:02
  I think that sometimes, like, these more real conversations about...
• 42:08
  entrepreneurship can be and what kind of life you're trying to build and maybe just build a business that supports that.
• 42:14
  I'm not saying play small.
• 42:16
  Right.
• 42:17
  I don't say that to you.
• 42:18
  But you also don't need to sell a company and then jump into something the next week.
• 42:25
  Like your wife missed you, man.
• 42:27
  Like go spend the time with your wife.
• 42:30
  Go spend some time with your mom.
• 42:31
  That's the last time you had dinner with her.
• 42:34
  I've thought about this a lot because even with this podcast, there's a lot of different ways that I can make money.
• 42:38
  Like I come from a business background.
• 42:39
  I've built companies and I think about, okay, so is this, you know, the best way to make money?
• 42:44
  Probably not.
• 42:45
  To be quite honest, yeah, you always hear about the $100 million Spotify Joe Rogan deals, but these are not the norm in the podcasting space, right?
• 42:53
  But this is fun.
• 42:55
  This is something that I personally enjoy.
• 42:56
  You know, my studio is in my backyard.
• 43:00
  optimize the business to be like part of my life and not the other way around i don't think a lot of people do that no systems are important like this is killer this is amazing so you've always been sort of ahead of of the trend right so you were first with ugc with instagram um you're leaning heavily into ai right now uh
• 43:19
  You're so ahead of the trend that when you were working with influencers, influencer marketing, you actually, well, Kylie, I guess, got in trouble for posting things.
• 43:28
  A lot of influencers, it was not just her in particular, but it was so early.
• 43:32
  The disclosure wasn't really integrated within Instagram.
• 43:35
  Facebook really didn't integrate it quite yet.
• 43:36
  Like, oh, this is a paid sponsored post.
• 43:38
  And there was no, like, the actual federal government didn't have, like, a very defined, like, hashtag ad.
• 43:43
  You know, how do you define, is it the beginning of the post?
• 43:46
  Is it behind the post?
• 43:47
  Like, I remember even me, like, I was just like, there'd be, like, times I'd be having this discussion with team.
• 43:52
  And, like, is it hashtag sponsored?
• 43:55
  I'm like, I don't know.
• 43:57
  Like, we didn't, like, we literally was, like, inventing it as it went.
• 43:59
  So, you gave her a product.
• 44:02
  And then she's, like, 16 years old.
• 44:03
  Yeah, she's young.
• 44:04
  And she's, like, it's not cool.
• 44:05
  Like, she's, like, a cool influencer.
• 44:07
  She's killing it.
• 44:08
  But it was, like, so much, it was, like, the top of the world.
• 44:10
  Yeah.
• 44:11
  And, you know, I didn't realize, like, how big of a noise that was going to be.
• 44:16
  How did you even get to work with the Kardashians?
• 44:20
  I just was fortunate enough to, like, be connected to, like, the Twitter space in the very beginning.
• 44:24
  Still, again, like, way ahead of everyone else.
• 44:26
  Oh, I was, like, really early of Twitter.
• 44:28
  Like, in the beginning, like, literally in the infancies of, like, the website.
• 44:31
  So I had grew, like, a few pages on that platform.
• 44:35
  Yeah.
• 44:35
  And I was like talking to people and they're like, oh, you know, we know Scott Disick.
• 44:39
  And so I was like, all right, cool.
• 44:40
  So then like Scott Disick was like trying to buy a car.
• 44:43
  And so we sponsored him.
• 44:45
  And then it became like a relationship.
• 44:46
  And it was like there's multiple people for this conversation, like different like characters that like either worked with like high level celebrity or like mid tier celebrity.
• 44:56
  And so like the messaging was going back and forth.
• 44:58
  But then it became that like the Scott Disick connection was like the real kicker.
• 45:02
  Um, and, uh, then it was everybody was getting paid too.
• 45:06
  So I was just stroking checks.
• 45:08
  And so everyone's like, Hey, we want one too, you know?
• 45:10
  So I was sponsoring everybody.
• 45:12
  Cause I was trying to catch them like Pokemon.
• 45:14
  Like how I like, you know, Kylie.
• 45:17
  This was a while ago, so they were probably not as expensive as they are now.
• 45:21
  No, I paid her barely anything, like $16,000 or something like that for the first post.
• 45:26
  Something like really.
• 45:27
  And it was like the biggest post we had in terms of cost at the time.
• 45:31
  I was like, oh my God, this is so much money.
• 45:33
  This is crazy.
• 45:35
  But I did it and it was like insane success, like a million dollars for that $16,000.
• 45:42
  And I was like, how many of these can I possibly buy?
• 45:46
  What would they let me do?
• 45:47
  You know what I mean?
• 45:48
  I look back now.
• 45:49
  I should have been more of a traditional businessman at that point.
• 45:52
  Go meet people and create a contract.
• 45:55
  But I was doing something that was never done before.
• 45:57
  I was texting people and going back and forth.
• 46:01
  And there was no contractual agreements necessary.
• 46:04
  There was a handshake agreement.
• 46:05
  Send you $16,000.
• 46:06
  All right.
• 46:07
  Cool.
• 46:07
  Send.
• 46:07
  You know?
• 46:08
  Yeah.
• 46:09
  I mean, there was times it didn't work out.
• 46:11
  People would steal money or whatever.
• 46:13
  But yeah, I probably should have been more traditional at that point.
• 46:18
  I'm going to get back to you being ahead of the curve in a second because I wanted to actually ask, where do you see opportunities for people now?
• 46:23
  But I'm just showing how ahead of the curve you were for everything else you've done.
• 46:28
  So you pay her $16K.
• 46:29
  She does a million dollars in sales.
• 46:31
  And then what, FTC gets...
• 46:34
  Yeah, so like the government basically goes, they want to use me as an example of like, you know, big business not doing disclosure of like an ad, you know.
• 46:44
  But at this time, it was like a broad sweep too.
• 46:46
  So it was not just me.
• 46:47
  There was like multiple companies that were getting these like warnings.
• 46:51
  And so we, you know, we totally complied with the government and did everything we were supposed to do.
• 46:55
  But it definitely was super challenging and super like education too, because like a lot of entrepreneurs too, like we have like all these ideas and wants and want to do all these opportunities, but some of them are illegal or like semi quasi illegal.
• 47:09
  And you probably as a good entrepreneur should recognize and say, no, I can't do this.
• 47:14
  Obviously, I didn't know that, you know, this, this disclosure thing was going to be such a significant and it wasn't like we weren't trying.
• 47:22
  Like we had in our contracts, like, you know, put hashtag ad, make sure it's like this.
• 47:27
  And but there was no like official way of doing it.
• 47:30
  No.
• 47:30
  So if somebody posts it, nobody's checking it later on and seeing.
• 47:34
  And yeah, now it's very now they're like now it's super, you know, easy to do.
• 47:40
  And the platform supported the platform.
• 47:41
  Has it integrated or back then we were just inventing stuff.
• 47:44
  Like I feel like we're like a couple of kids, you know, I mean, just like trying to figure it out.
• 47:48
  Like, you know, that's the thing, too.
• 47:50
  Right.
• 47:50
  Like.
• 47:50
  Yeah.
• 47:51
  Let's make the assumption that people who are listening to this are not purposefully doing illegal shit.
• 47:56
  Outside of that, entrepreneurs do move fast and break stuff a lot.
• 48:01
  Like if an entrepreneur, especially early days of Instagram and Twitter, if an entrepreneur had an opportunity to get, I don't even know what kind of the ROI, what's the ROI, you know, return on ad spend for 16 grand to a million dollars in sales.
• 48:15
  It's insane.
• 48:17
  But if you had that opportunity, fuck yeah, take my check, take my money, go post it, do it again, do it again, do it again, do it again.
• 48:23
  People just move fast.
• 48:25
  People, but this is like, listen, like you, you learn.
• 48:28
  Oh yeah, for sure.
• 48:30
  You, my, my attorney used to tell me something, which I, it always stuck with me.
• 48:33
  And she goes, you know, law doesn't keep up with tech the same speed.
• 48:38
  Right.
• 48:39
  So like we would have like these, like, you know, whatever it was like law, like a lawsuit or law, this, or whatever that necessarily needed like attorneys or, and like, you know, they didn't know what the hell we were talking about.
• 48:49
  You know what I mean?
• 48:49
  Like.
• 48:50
  It's a link, you know what I mean?
• 48:52
  It's a link or whatever.
• 48:53
  And I would get all frustrated, you know what I mean?
• 48:56
  Like, what do you mean they don't know what this is?
• 48:58
  But in reality, they literally, legitimately, the law is not fast enough to keep up with this emerging technology.
• 49:05
  And all of that.
• 49:05
  I mean, even just the way that you market and the way, yeah.
• 49:08
  Yeah.
• 49:08
  And then you don't realize geopolitical aspects.
• 49:12
  There's so much to go.
• 49:13
  When you get to these really high levels of marketing, I don't know.
• 49:18
  Sometimes some marketing is like, if I can go back in time and talk to myself, I'm like, maybe that maybe this one we could pass on.
• 49:24
  Because like it's going to have like other aspects of like law and people watching and like things you're not thinking about that's going to hurt you financially.
• 49:33
  You know what I mean?
• 49:34
  And the opportunity may have made you some money.
• 49:37
  Not to say that we wouldn't do like some really great posts with great celebrity.
• 49:41
  But there's certain ones that have been like, I don't know, man, like this.
• 49:44
  Let's just do Facebook ads.
• 49:46
  So.
• 49:47
  You were always ahead of the curve.
• 49:48
  What are the opportunities you see now?
• 49:50
  I know that you invest heavily in AI.
• 49:53
  But when you look at all the other ways that entrepreneurs can win, what are like the marketing hacks that like this, this Instagram of 2026?
• 50:01
  It's so crazy because there's like some video of me talking on stage like years ago.
• 50:06
  I still think people buy from people.
• 50:08
  So be 100% yourself.
• 50:10
  Yeah.
• 50:11
  Don't make any don't be fake.
• 50:13
  Just be 100 percent.
• 50:14
  And maybe I can say that's hermosy.
• 50:16
  Maybe that's, you know, just be an observant of the market.
• 50:18
  Just be like I still think as much as I'm obsessed with the eye, I still think humans are humans and we need to like still gravitate toward the human experience.
• 50:29
  So whether you're running a business, be totally transparent about your dings in your armor.
• 50:34
  And and or just be like 100 percent yourself and sell like I think I think it's more people driven than people realize like your podcast is such a driving force because of the aspects of people falling in love with you.
• 50:50
  Right.
• 50:50
  Like if it was me doing this all the time, they eventually will gravitate towards my flavor.
• 50:55
  And so I think that humans still need to be really, really focused on that part.
• 51:00
  Like, AI is amazing.
• 51:01
  Like, I'm obsessed with AI.
• 51:02
  So, like, the last three years, you know, fortunately, my business partner taught me a lot about, like, the core competencies of, like, AI and now, like, doing really high-level AI work.
• 51:11
  I think that's really important that businesses understand what's happening in the market.
• 51:15
  Yeah.
• 51:16
  In terms of the tools that they can have access to and really educate themselves on it.
• 51:22
  But don't let that replace the people doing business with people.
• 51:25
  People are always going to buy from people.
• 51:27
  At the end of the day, you know, humans are humans.
• 51:33
  As much as I love technology, I don't think no matter how advanced we get, no matter how far along the technology line, it's always going to come back to handshakes.
• 51:42
  It's always going to come back to people, you know, buying from people.
• 51:47
  Unless, you know, we get replaced by Androids.
• 51:50
  I don't I don't see how that changes.
• 51:53
  And as far as like opportunity, like the future, because I used to think about this even prior to AI, you know, prior to like and I was like very good at defining, OK, this is the sector I think like crypto.
• 52:04
  I was very like bullish on.
• 52:06
  I thought technology obviously was going to be big.
• 52:09
  um cpg is changing the landscape of what cpg could be um it doesn't necessarily need to be the biggest it just needs to be the most personable i think now um but cpg is such a infrastructure aspect part so it's like a synergy between like ai
• 52:25
  being a really good, like, human suitor of a brand or a business and some kind of, like, marriage between the two because I think people can catch the bullshit.
• 52:35
  You know what I mean?
• 52:36
  They can smell it.
• 52:37
  They almost can taste the fakeness of it.
• 52:39
  Do you feel like people are...
• 52:44
  relying too heavily on AI and not enough on... Oh, yeah, for sure.
• 52:48
  Like, it's almost like we've...
• 52:49
  The slop, Amada.
• 52:51
  Like, I think there's a high-level usage of AI.
• 52:54
  And then there's, like, lazy.
• 52:57
  Like, it's junk.
• 52:58
  Junk mail.
• 52:59
  It's junk aspect.
• 53:01
  But it comes down to the suitor of like any tool, right?
• 53:05
  You can say, you know, Michelangelo is great with painting, right?
• 53:09
  Because he was the suitor of this set tool.
• 53:11
  And it's the same thing with AI, in my opinion.
• 53:13
  I think people want a fast way to make money, right?
• 53:18
  And they get lazy.
• 53:19
  They get lazy with their...
• 53:21
  Education, they get lazy because they can spit something up quickly doesn't mean it's something of value.
• 53:26
  And I think there's a confusion of like, I am making something.
• 53:31
  And since I made something, there's value here.
• 53:33
  And unfortunately, with AI, that's an illusion.
• 53:37
  It's almost a moose boost.
• 53:38
  Like they think it's something great, you know.
• 53:41
  And fortunately, I like that analogy.
• 53:43
  It's not the real dinner.
• 53:44
  It's not.
• 53:45
  Yeah, it's just not.
• 53:47
  And some great things can emerge, you know, with these technologies.
• 53:52
  But people have to be like super focused.
• 53:55
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• 57:39
  It's almost like the barrier to entry for creating anything got super low.
• 57:43
  And then people just thought because they prompted something and it gave them an output, all of a sudden they're incredible.
• 57:50
  But not at all.
• 57:51
  Bullshit.
• 57:53
  And I think that, you know, even you saw with big companies that should be knowing how to use AI properly.
• 57:59
  they laid off a whole bunch of people.
• 58:01
  They started to incorporate AI and they realized that, well, first of all, they never trained the people that were left on AI.
• 58:09
  So it wasn't as efficient as the team they just laid off.
• 58:13
  It was actually taking more time and money and energy.
• 58:15
  The output was shittier and they had to rehire a whole bunch of people because they relied too heavily on AI.
• 58:20
  So whether or not it's like a,
• 58:21
  a creator at home putting out AI slot posts on LinkedIn or a company that's like, hey, let's just replace a human being with AI completely, even though we have no idea how to do that.
• 58:32
  There was like this over-reliance on it that created this really subpar output.
• 58:40
  But just, I don't know.
• 58:43
  I feel like that's why AI gets so much hate because it wasn't used properly.
• 58:47
  People got lazy.
• 58:48
  Who won't?
• 58:49
  It's just a tool, you know, and I think I think a lot of entrepreneurs get confused on what AI could be for them and what it could be used.
• 58:57
  Because, I mean, I've seen this so many times.
• 58:59
  They're like, oh, I need to automate this and this and this and this and I need to have an agent for this and this and this and this and this.
• 59:04
  And some of that's amazing.
• 59:06
  A hundred percent.
• 59:06
  You should be doing that.
• 59:07
  Right.
• 59:08
  But then there's other aspects.
• 59:09
  It's like, ooh, I don't know.
• 59:10
  Like, I don't think we're there yet in terms of the technology.
• 59:13
  And then two, it also takes away from, like, the critical thinking skills of the entrepreneur too, right?
• 59:20
  Like, they're just so innate in it that they can't even be, like,
• 59:23
  a person anymore and like think about like for themselves without going, Chach PD, what do you think?
• 59:28
  You know what I mean?
• 59:29
  Like tell me right now, make me a million dollars.
• 59:31
  You know what I mean?
• 59:32
  Like it, like it gets to that.
• 59:34
  There's studies where people outsource all their thinking to AI.
• 59:37
  And then I think there's, I don't know, Stanford Harbor.
• 59:40
  They're doing studies on show and they show that people's brains shrink and atrophy and there's less brain activity.
• 59:47
  If every single email is written by AI, every single search is written by AI.
• 59:52
  All you do is just done by, you're not thinking critically at all.
• 59:56
  So that's not good.
• 59:56
  I mean, that's like the opposite effect of somebody who's trying to be an entrepreneur.
• 1:00:00
  And then, you know, even, okay, so with this podcast, I use AI to prep, but like, I probably have, I don't even know, like 80 questions here.
• 1:00:10
  And I maybe asked like two of them because if I just was a robot and you gave a great answer and then I didn't have a normal conversation with you, like a human about that and that we went in that direction.
• 1:00:21
  And I was just like, okay, so next question, the content would suck.
• 1:00:24
  It would absolutely suck.
• 1:00:26
  So I feel like there's this over-reliance on it.
• 1:00:29
  It's too bad because it's a great tool.
• 1:00:30
  But then I'll ask you, if somebody wants to use it properly, what's your advice to them?
• 1:00:37
  I think it's, number one, first becoming super educated on the tool, what you can do with it, understand the process of what you can do with it and achieve with it,
• 1:00:47
  And then be very efficient on using your imagination to create whatever you're going to create.
• 1:00:53
  Be very good at becoming very targeted prompting and planning and building.
• 1:00:59
  And be very purposeful of where you're going to go with it.
• 1:01:01
  Because even with my own journey with using these tools, you do that same process that I just said.
• 1:01:08
  And, you know, like, oh, yeah.
• 1:01:10
  But you build something that's like you sit there and go.
• 1:01:12
  I didn't need to do this for two, three days of my life.
• 1:01:15
  Like this was the end result didn't really matter.
• 1:01:19
  And it's good to go through those exercises.
• 1:01:23
  But at the same time, it's like really understand the end result of where you want to go.
• 1:01:27
  And then treat this tool like if it was like a human that you were going to train.
• 1:01:31
  Because I think also there's a confusion that AI has all the answers, all the skills and everything ready to go.
• 1:01:37
  And it's going to work right when you do it.
• 1:01:39
  No, like you need to like really check on it, like almost as if you were training like an employee that had came into your business.
• 1:01:46
  And what would you do when you do that?
• 1:01:48
  Like someone comes in onto a company and go, hey, this is how we do our stuff.
• 1:01:51
  And you wouldn't ask them to do everything.
• 1:01:52
  You'd be like, this is a task.
• 1:01:53
  They may have an incredible skill.
• 1:01:55
  Right.
• 1:01:55
  And you just are augmenting that aspect with a very human, directional, imaginary, you know, imagination.
• 1:02:04
  critical thinking process where I still don't see how AI can do that quite yet.
• 1:02:11
  But also, you made a good point, though.
• 1:02:13
  When you hire a human, you're going to give them context.
• 1:02:16
  You're going to help them succeed at their job.
• 1:02:19
  What you're not going to do is
• 1:02:21
  Hey, I have 20 random business ideas.
• 1:02:24
  Can you please try and figure out all of these?
• 1:02:26
  Because that's not going to help them.
• 1:02:28
  That's also not going to help you because that's going to...
• 1:02:31
  I know people that just take on random new shit and new business ideas and actually get distracted because now they think AI can build everything.
• 1:02:38
  So they're coding an app on the weekend instead of spending the weekend focusing on five more things that can drive results for the thing they're already building.
• 1:02:45
  It's not an opportunity.
• 1:02:46
  It's literally a distraction most of the time.
• 1:02:48
  Obviously, there would be way more companies that are making a shit ton of money if that was the case.
• 1:02:55
  Like there's proof in the pudding, right?
• 1:02:56
  Like there's...
• 1:02:57
  actionable steps and then there's businesses that actually produce money and don't get me twisted i'm sure there's some that are being produced right now but it's real and far between like it's much less than than people wanna it's funny how um everything that that's bad in life comes down to people gravitating towards extremes um
• 1:03:16
  So either over-reliance on AI or ignoring it completely to extremes.
• 1:03:20
  Because I was like that at first.
• 1:03:21
  I was like, I don't need that shit.
• 1:03:23
  I'm good.
• 1:03:23
  Like I have, you know.
• 1:03:24
  And then like slowly but surely, I'm like, I'm going to be left in the dust if I don't really educate myself and like be open-minded to this emerging technology.
• 1:03:34
  And then I was like thinking about me in the early days of social, like people were saying about that the same way.
• 1:03:38
  And I'm like, fuck, I'm going to be the same way.
• 1:03:40
  I'm like, that's crazy.
• 1:03:41
  Yeah.
• 1:03:42
  Um, so anytime I try to keep my ear to the youth, like if they're saying something like, hey, this is a cool thing.
• 1:03:47
  Cause I remember when like musically became a thing and my cousin's like, oh, you've seen this musically thing.
• 1:03:52
  And I just sat there and I was like, what is this?
• 1:03:55
  What is, I think this is going to be huge.
• 1:03:57
  You know what I mean?
• 1:03:58
  And sure enough, TechDark becomes this massive platform.
• 1:04:02
  Um.
• 1:04:02
  And it's like I try so hard to keep my ear to the ground, like what people are talking about, what they're doing and be open minded to like, OK, is this an opportunity?
• 1:04:10
  Is it not?
• 1:04:11
  Because at first with AI, I was like, oh, I don't see it.
• 1:04:14
  I don't understand.
• 1:04:15
  But now I understand what the tool set can be and how powerful it is.
• 1:04:20
  And it's interesting to witness to how it's evolving, too.
• 1:04:25
  Where's the, where's the mark?
• 1:04:26
  So you were again, ahead of the curve with marketing as well.
• 1:04:32
  Getting a 10 trillion X ROAS on Instagram and an influencer marketing is wild.
• 1:04:39
  So where's that kind of opportunity now for like, if you're going to build another, say you're going to build another CPG brand.
• 1:04:44
  You're not getting Kylie for $16,000.
• 1:04:47
  You're not putting $16,000 on Instagram and making, or you're not putting a couple hundred bucks on Instagram and making $16,000 day one.
• 1:04:54
  So where would you put your money?
• 1:04:56
  So, like, I just had this conversation, like, a few days ago.
• 1:04:59
  Like, what would Fitty Michael do today, right?
• 1:05:01
  Like, I would focus totally on the streamers and the clipping world.
• 1:05:06
  Like, that clipping world.
• 1:05:08
  world slash streamers but the streamers are doing amazing but i would hire like really great writers to cultivate the live streams and give it like a narrative and obviously like a story like a story and some of the streamers are already kind of doing it you can see it happening right and they're doing like very shock value very analytical they're looking at their metrics and going okay this video worked we should do some more more more of that stuff but
• 1:05:34
  It would be a balance between those two things and still like old school stuff.
• 1:05:39
  Like, I still think there's a whole world of like outdoor advertising and like the traditional landscape of advertising.
• 1:05:47
  I don't think that's ever going to go away.
• 1:05:51
  But the live streaming stuff, I think, is going to become more and more loud, more and more loud.
• 1:05:56
  Like you're seeing celebrities slowly wanting to be streamers and streamers that want to be celebrities.
• 1:06:02
  And their influence is so much bigger than like a celebrity now.
• 1:06:07
  Like Drake doing those, you know, live broadcasts with people.
• 1:06:11
  It's like very telling.
• 1:06:12
  You know what I mean?
• 1:06:14
  And I think businesses can do the same.
• 1:06:16
  Like literally like this could have been this whole entire day, this morning.
• 1:06:20
  We've been talking about live streaming.
• 1:06:22
  We could have been like there could have been someone streaming the whole time, the whole interaction.
• 1:06:27
  Because, yeah, people want to see the curated and we're talking about the hard questions.
• 1:06:32
  Michael, what do you got to say?
• 1:06:34
  But they also want to see me just be like completely unfiltered, ridiculous, and, you know, they get to see you unfiltered.
• 1:06:44
  You'd be surprised how impactful I think like a business showing just what they do inside.
• 1:06:51
  And it will reveal like if they're totally transparent because I have this like new obsession of like transparency and just being yourself.
• 1:06:58
  And like my mom, I think it's like an education from my mom because my mom wears like these wacky outfits.
• 1:07:02
  And at first I was like, it's a fucking wacky.
• 1:07:05
  What the hell are you doing?
• 1:07:06
  She's like, I'm going to be undeniably me.
• 1:07:08
  You know what I mean?
• 1:07:09
  I love it.
• 1:07:09
  And I think that's the same.
• 1:07:10
  Like that's a lesson.
• 1:07:11
  There's a lesson there.
• 1:07:12
  You know, like sometimes you got to like listen to what God is telling you.
• 1:07:16
  And it's like I think entrepreneurs could do that in their businesses, too.
• 1:07:20
  And that's a core, like a marketing, because like then people see who you are.
• 1:07:24
  Are you a good man?
• 1:07:25
  Are you a good woman?
• 1:07:26
  And it's intimate and it's raw, it's unfiltered.
• 1:07:30
  I think that's so smart.
• 1:07:32
  So I just saw a live streamer this morning.
• 1:07:34
  He's a bodybuilder out of Australia.
• 1:07:35
  I can't remember his live stream.
• 1:07:36
  I literally just saw his, it was a clip on Instagram from his stream.
• 1:07:41
  And he was just walking around the grocery store talking about foods that he buys.
• 1:07:45
  And he's getting recognized in the grocery store.
• 1:07:47
  So obviously he's like, we're famous.
• 1:07:49
  And we were talking about doing a live stream.
• 1:07:52
  And I'm like, well, I'd love to do it.
• 1:07:54
  I don't even mind it.
• 1:07:55
  But I think some people, like some of the guests that I bring on.
• 1:07:58
  Unfortunately, I think what's going to happen...
• 1:08:01
  What is about to happen is that they're not going to be able to avoid it.
• 1:08:06
  It's almost as if Apple's going to put cameras into the headphones and the Neta has them in the glasses, it's going to continue.
• 1:08:15
  It's going to be in watches and in this, and it's going to be easier, accessible and faster and faster.
• 1:08:19
  In fact, I just went to an event that was a boxing live streamer event.
• 1:08:24
  and that was so telling for me just to be in the room because I was like watching all the people do it.
• 1:08:30
  Make it so normal.
• 1:08:31
  They're like walking around with a camera, like full production set, but there's like six people doing it at the same time, and they do not care.
• 1:08:39
  They do not care at all.
• 1:08:40
  And I'm like, what?
• 1:08:43
  Why do I have this restriction on myself?
• 1:08:45
  Because I have the same feelings as, you know, millennials.
• 1:08:48
  I think we're not quite jumping on the bandwagon of, like, total transparency.
• 1:08:53
  But most, you know, Gen X and everything after Gen Z, they're like –
• 1:09:00
  They're very used to the millennial pause.
• 1:09:02
  They talk about that.
• 1:09:04
  I pause before the camera starts because it's a habit where the younger generation doesn't do that.
• 1:09:11
  I think it's the entrepreneurs that embrace this trend, and I think it's still going to evolve too.
• 1:09:19
  I think there's going to be a spike, just like Instagram, where you can have super famous people.
• 1:09:23
  And then slowly but surely, there'll be a normality to it.
• 1:09:26
  So it's always like the people that lean into the hard, uncomfortable shit before everyone else always win.
• 1:09:31
  Oh, of course.
• 1:09:32
  I was listening to an interview with Jake Paul, and he was talking about why he was so successful on YouTube.
• 1:09:38
  Because obviously there's other vloggers, but then he was putting his entire life out there.
• 1:09:43
  It felt like there was no edits.
• 1:09:44
  He was like...
• 1:09:45
  It wasn't live streaming, but he felt like you were just seeing 100% of him.
• 1:09:49
  And then he included other ideas, like he was telling stories, bringing in recurring characters.
• 1:09:53
  And so now you have these live streamers that are probably going to pick up some ideas from the best vloggers and the best celebrities.
• 1:10:00
  And it's just more transparent, so the audience feels like they actually know the person.
• 1:10:05
  Yeah, I feel like every...
• 1:10:08
  It's easy to say I feel like more entrepreneurs should stream stuff going on in their business.
• 1:10:14
  But realistically, we're so far from that.
• 1:10:18
  There is such a huge opportunity for people that actually do it.
• 1:10:22
  Because we say it like, oh yeah, if an entrepreneur, somebody building a startup just live streamed around their office, it would be great content.
• 1:10:30
  Bro, I have a hard time getting people to even post on Instagram.
• 1:10:34
  So it's like where they should be and where they are is so far.
• 1:10:39
  So that – it's just opportunity.
• 1:10:41
  It's just opportunity.
• 1:10:42
  Why do you think I was running around design district filming stuff?
• 1:10:45
  Because I'm trying to like – I think there's – like I have this conversation with my team and some of my entrepreneur buddies.
• 1:10:51
  I think the hard part of all this stuff is like core systems need to be created because it doesn't – it does exist like cameras and stuff, but it's not –
• 1:11:00
  It's not super like streamlined and super easy.
• 1:11:03
  I think that's one because some people are not like techies.
• 1:11:05
  They're not going to be able to use a lot of this equipment and set up and, you know, I got to integrate it and do all this stuff.
• 1:11:10
  So I think whoever like builds the systems are super straightforward and super easy.
• 1:11:15
  But I also think like I even I'm having like a renaissance of what I believe the future of the Internet is going to be.
• 1:11:22
  And I was kind of like in the infancies of creating the thing and in terms of like what a business does with the tool.
• 1:11:28
  Right.
• 1:11:28
  Right.
• 1:11:30
  I think entrepreneurs are going to need to embrace it and get the fuck out of their head.
• 1:11:34
  And really, if you want to be a part of the future, you're going to have to be a part of it.
• 1:11:39
  And be brave enough to be open-minded to the idea that there is no longer privacy in the terms of marketing.
• 1:11:46
  Because I think the ones that are going to be okay with it...
• 1:11:50
  being totally open with their flaws and their pimples and their whatever they're the ones that are gonna win because again it's human buys from human i think ai is the one of the problems because it masks masks that right like you can use it to create like these like perfect personas um
• 1:12:09
  And people are going to become more and more aware of that.
• 1:12:12
  And I don't think you can, in terms of live streaming right now, you can't really AI that.
• 1:12:16
  At least not like totality.
• 1:12:20
  And I may be wrong, but I just see this future of marketing where it's this balance of real open truths and people buying from people still and then utilizing the networks that are available to them.
• 1:12:34
  So you built a company that has sold over $100 million, which is something that not a lot of entrepreneurs get to do and experience.
• 1:12:41
  So amazing.
• 1:12:42
  Congrats.
• 1:12:42
  That's incredible.
• 1:12:44
  But on that journey, I just want to talk about some of the lessons that you've learned.
• 1:12:48
  So building a company at that size, what is one thing that it taught you about yourself that nothing else could have?
• 1:12:57
  I'm not God.
• 1:13:00
  I'm not God because when you get to like bigger levels of success, you start to think that you're bigger than you are and your ego gets bigger and bigger.
• 1:13:11
  Like if you would have met me during like the peaks of it, I probably wouldn't like myself.
• 1:13:15
  Right.
• 1:13:15
  Like if I met myself, you know, from a time frame.
• 1:13:18
  Um, and you, you get this ego aspect where then you don't respect people just because of like, of your own success.
• 1:13:26
  Like it had nothing to do with the person.
• 1:13:27
  Like you, and then you don't really self-reflect.
• 1:13:30
  You start to become more and more obsessed with your own self.
• 1:13:33
  And, um, and then you think that nothing could possibly break you down.
• 1:13:37
  Nothing can beat you down, but life has a way of humbling you and can throw like one, two punches.
• 1:13:44
  I'm not God.
• 1:13:45
  Like I'm not God.
• 1:13:46
  And I think entrepreneurs, you know, even with social media, we get this like this huge bravado that we're bigger than the universe.
• 1:13:56
  I think that was the one thing I learned from my experience that I'm just immortal.
• 1:14:01
  I'm just a man, just like any other man.
• 1:14:03
  I wake up, I go to sleep, I wake up.
• 1:14:06
  I have love, I have loss, I have a limited time on this earth.
• 1:14:10
  And it just really showed me that this is all a gift.
• 1:14:14
  This is all temporary.
• 1:14:15
  It can be given.
• 1:14:16
  It can be taken from you.
• 1:14:18
  And to really enjoy the ride for what it is.
• 1:14:21
  You know what I mean?
• 1:14:22
  But also, like, really respect people.
• 1:14:24
  Like, I really appreciated your time and your intimacy and, like, who you are as a person.
• 1:14:30
  And the people that are working with you.
• 1:14:33
  And before, I wouldn't reflect on those things.
• 1:14:35
  Like, how special this is.
• 1:14:36
  Like, one day you're going to die.
• 1:14:37
  You know what I mean?
• 1:14:38
  I get to spend this little.
• 1:14:39
  Maybe I never see you again.
• 1:14:41
  And before, I wasn't as a toot to like, this little moment of time, I have to really respect this person because it's just...
• 1:14:48
  It's really, really special, you know.
• 1:14:52
  And tomorrow I could be gone.
• 1:14:53
  And this was our only interaction, you know.
• 1:14:56
  And your reflection of me would be like, man, that guy was pretty cool.
• 1:14:58
  And maybe not.
• 1:14:59
  It wouldn't be like this universal moment for you, right.
• 1:15:03
  But before I didn't think that way.
• 1:15:05
  I didn't even think of like death.
• 1:15:06
  I didn't think about like loss.
• 1:15:08
  I acted like success was going to come to me always.
• 1:15:10
  And I never thought I was going to have any war, you know, war-torn moments.
• 1:15:14
  Hits.
• 1:15:15
  But yeah, definitely became more humble in terms of who I was.
• 1:15:20
  What humbled you, though?
• 1:15:22
  A lot of different things.
• 1:15:23
  The business, relationships, loss, my death of my father.
• 1:15:28
  Things that you just don't realize are not fucking important.
• 1:15:33
  And you put all this energy in, like, I'm this guy.
• 1:15:36
  And those were not the things that were important whatsoever.
• 1:15:40
  And it really shows you, like...
• 1:15:43
  your attitude needs to be adjusted, you know, and maybe the universe and life just like goes, okay, listen, man, like you're not, you're not that guy.
• 1:15:51
  You're not, you're not going to ever be God.
• 1:15:53
  And, um, and ever since I changed that perspective, I became much more humble.
• 1:15:58
  I became more personable.
• 1:15:59
  I became much more pleasurable to be around because I was such a like, almost like static electricity.
• 1:16:04
  And so like anything would set me, you know, like it could be like, and it could have been just jokative.
• 1:16:08
  Right.
• 1:16:08
  But it wasn't respectful.
• 1:16:10
  You know what I mean?
• 1:16:12
  And that value of that time too, you know.
• 1:16:15
  Yeah, that was like one of the big things I learned from like the whole entire experience.
• 1:16:18
  From what I remember, you didn't come from money, correct?
• 1:16:20
  Yeah, we came from nothing.
• 1:16:21
  Came from nothing.
• 1:16:22
  You made more money than you probably ever thought you would, I'm assuming.
• 1:16:29
  When you sort of look at that journey, your definition of success has probably changed significantly.
• 1:16:35
  It's tough because when you start, everybody's going after money.
• 1:16:38
  Then they realize it sounds like, you know, you had success.
• 1:16:42
  loss in your, in your family, you had health, mental health scares and issues, and you've gotten over a lot of this stuff now, not the loss, but you've gotten over a lot of the, the mental health and the physical health things that came with building a huge business.
• 1:16:56
  But what does success and fulfillment and happiness mean to you now?
• 1:17:00
  So family, family first, being very present of my time and understanding of my mortality.
• 1:17:08
  Um, you know, the things that I enjoy, I enjoy the things I don't need.
• 1:17:12
  I don't need saying no more.
• 1:17:14
  Um, super important saying no, uh, just like the overall peace.
• 1:17:19
  Like if it doesn't bring me peace, like true, true peace, because happiness is ever winding, right?
• 1:17:24
  Like you can have happiness one day and you're sad the next day, but peace is like, you can really fight for it and really like make it a priority because some entrepreneurs go, Oh, I want to, you know, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow, grow.
• 1:17:36
  What does that lead to?
• 1:17:37
  Probably not so much peace, you know?
• 1:17:39
  And then 10 years go by, you made the money and you're fucking out of whack.
• 1:17:43
  You know what I mean?
• 1:17:44
  Is it really truly like when I went through my disorder?
• 1:17:46
  Was it really truly worth that?
• 1:17:48
  You know what I mean?
• 1:17:49
  Where I could have probably made $10 million less, but never went through a disorder.
• 1:17:53
  Although I don't regret that.
• 1:17:55
  I learned a very important lesson.
• 1:17:56
  Now I get to share it on your podcast to other people.
• 1:17:58
  potentially people because every day somebody's going to go through that.
• 1:18:02
  So that's a blessing and an honor that I went to those challenges and now I get to bestow that knowledge to other people.
• 1:18:06
  So yeah.
• 1:18:10
  One, I had a friend
• 1:18:14
  It's interesting what you can learn from rock bottom moments and not even rock bottom moments, just like tough moments in life.
• 1:18:21
  A sad story.
• 1:18:23
  I had a friend whose wife passed away from cancer and we were actually just speaking yesterday.
• 1:18:29
  A little bit recent, so it's fresh.
• 1:18:32
  But he was saying how...
• 1:18:35
  like this whole horrible experience has just made him realize that he just shouldn't waste time on things that aren't important.
• 1:18:46
  Like he doesn't, he was giving me an example if he went to this dinner party and after 15 minutes he just like got up and left and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not staying here, I'm not enjoying myself at all.
• 1:18:56
  And I feel like when you have hard moments, like points in your life, when you lose a father, when you lose a wife, when you sacrifice your own physical mental health for a goal and it really hurts you, you start to realize like,
• 1:19:13
  what should you spend your time and your energy on?
• 1:19:16
  And I, and, and it sounds like that's the realization that you came to as well through like giving so much of yourself to your company, some batches happening in your life.
• 1:19:25
  And you're like, you know what, if it's not worth my time, it doesn't like, you know, if I don't enjoy it, I'm not doing it.
• 1:19:31
  And I feel like not a lot of people have that clarity.
• 1:19:34
  A lot of people do business just because they need to do business with people they don't like, right?
• 1:19:39
  And sometimes that money is not worth it.
• 1:19:41
  It's not worth it in the end.
• 1:19:43
  And there's always going to be opportunities.
• 1:19:44
  There's always going to be businesses.
• 1:19:45
  There's a level of respect meter, too.
• 1:19:48
  People will tolerate shit.
• 1:19:50
  And obviously that comes with success and economic upside.
• 1:19:55
  Right?
• 1:19:57
  Right?
• 1:19:59
  And, but in reality, like you still don't have to, like in the end, your time is going to pass.
• 1:20:04
  This shall pass too.
• 1:20:06
  And you tell them to go fuck off.
• 1:20:07
  And some people don't, don't have that.
• 1:20:11
  Well, true, but at the same time, some do, even if they think they don't, you know, they can say no and not have to allow this person or thing or whatever it is that they're going to actually be like a thing they can't say no to.
• 1:20:23
  One of the best metaphors that you taught me yesterday, which I really liked.
• 1:20:28
  it's also about clarity and spending your energy only on things that matter is the, the, the, I guess metaphor analogy of like only having so many bullets.
• 1:20:37
  So just explain how you think about it and talk to the young entrepreneur who's trying to do everything and go to every coffee and lunch and dinner and try to build five different companies at once.
• 1:20:48
  Like what's your advice to that person?
• 1:20:49
  We, you know, we're human.
• 1:20:50
  We're morals.
• 1:20:51
  We only have so much energy, so much time on this earth, so much time within our day that,
• 1:20:56
  And so many opportunities become distractions.
• 1:20:59
  If you have 10 going at the same time, you're spinning the plate.
• 1:21:01
  I used to talk about that as a businessman.
• 1:21:03
  You know, you ever seen like the circus act, you're spinning the plate and all the plates are going and then they go running down the thing, they're spinning the plates and they keep one starts to wobble and they go back and spin that one.
• 1:21:13
  That's pretty much an entrepreneur experience and that's really normal.
• 1:21:17
  But then the problem becomes if you got another line of spinning plates, you know, like if you really think about it, okay, the first line was challenging.
• 1:21:24
  Oh, no, no, I need to add another line of spinning plates.
• 1:21:27
  And then all of a sudden you don't have enough hands to do the controlling of the plates.
• 1:21:34
  And I think about that in terms of like a gun, like you only have so many bullets that you can shoot off.
• 1:21:39
  And then it's, are you going to hit the target?
• 1:21:40
  Are you aiming at?
• 1:21:42
  Are you aiming at the right place?
• 1:21:43
  Because now you have six bullets in the chamber and you shot one this way and you shot one that way, but the target was over there, you know?
• 1:21:51
  So I think about, you know, and it might be an analogy, but I think about that in terms of entrepreneur spaces like,
• 1:21:57
  I see it all the time.
• 1:21:58
  It's so common.
• 1:21:59
  Like, not every opportunity is an opportunity.
• 1:22:02
  Most of the time, they should have said no to it and moved on to the thing that they should be hyper-focused on.
• 1:22:07
  And it's good to have levity and options, right?
• 1:22:09
  But you're only going to have – you've got to be super focused in your mind and your decision-making to go, okay, this is where I'm going to go.
• 1:22:17
  And this one, too.
• 1:22:18
  But that's it.
• 1:22:19
  I'm not going to go because I can only work on this for four hours maybe in the day at a high level.
• 1:22:24
  You know?
• 1:22:26
  So, yeah.
• 1:22:28
  I just want you to give that young entrepreneur who's starting out one last piece of advice, like the most important thing that you think will help them.
• 1:22:34
  What would that be?
• 1:22:35
  So, again, action steps.
• 1:22:38
  take massive action.
• 1:22:40
  I think I'd spend less time doing like this foo-foo stuff where you need to like get your brain right and all of this.
• 1:22:46
  You don't need another Hermosi video.
• 1:22:48
  You need to take massive action and measure the action.
• 1:22:52
  Did it work?
• 1:22:52
  Did it not work?
• 1:22:53
  And then do it again.
• 1:22:54
  And like, as long as you take massive actions towards a goal, I'm not promising you that everything will be a success, but I can promise you there will be a, some type of result and it can be measured and it can be time sensitive.
• 1:23:06
  Um,
• 1:23:08
  Just go for it.
• 1:23:10
  You don't need another self-help book from the library.
• 1:23:13
  You can do it now.
• 1:23:14
  Just do it.
• 1:23:15
  Do you feel like people use preparation as almost like a form of procrastination?
• 1:23:22
  Of course.
• 1:23:22
  I've experienced that in my life.
• 1:23:24
  I'm going to read another book.
• 1:23:27
  I'm going to write it down.
• 1:23:29
  And like, I did absolutely nothing like zero in terms of like the actual action steps that needs to be done.
• 1:23:35
  And it's funny.
• 1:23:35
  I feel like there's like, like once you start taking the steps of an action, like all of a sudden it becomes like easier, you know, like, yeah.
• 1:23:44
  Well, I mean like when you take action, like,
• 1:23:48
  It's, it's like compounded action over time.
• 1:23:52
  It's energy.
• 1:23:52
  It's a verb.
• 1:23:53
  Yeah, I get it.
• 1:23:55
  And it's like, and it shows you by through taking action, it shows you what's going to work and what's not.
• 1:24:00
  Like one of my favorite lines is you can never learn how to swim by reading a book about swimming.
• 1:24:05
  Like you got to get in the water.
• 1:24:06
  I'm going to steal that one.
• 1:24:07
  I'm going to start saying that.
• 1:24:09
  I like it.
• 1:24:11
  Where can people connect with you and find you?
• 1:24:13
  So my Instagram's best place, TCEO.
• 1:24:16
  If you message me, I answer every single DM.
• 1:24:19
  So no matter who you are, if you're big, small, in between, it doesn't matter.
• 1:24:23
  Send me a message and I'll reply back to you.
• 1:24:25
  That's my best place.
• 1:24:26
  Last question.
• 1:24:27
  If you could go back and tell 20-year-old Michael just one thing, the most important lesson, it can be business, it can be just life advice.
• 1:24:35
  Say no more.
• 1:24:35
  Be honest to yourself.
• 1:24:39
  Be a little bit more humble.
• 1:24:40
  It's okay to be confident.
• 1:24:42
  Feel a little bit more humble.
• 1:24:43
  And, you know, put family first always.