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Sometimes…the truth hurts (OCD)(Episode 14) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Marc & Stacee: Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. Hi, y'all. I'm Stacey and along with my husband, Mark, we want to thank you for living uncertain with us. Of course, this is the podcast that talks all about OCD and ERP. And welcome to episode 14. First of all, I want to start off with congratulating your son on his graduation today. So congratulations. high school graduate today. Congratulations to him. We're very proud, very excited as he moves on to a new journey in the next chapter. Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, Marc & Stacee: If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form. Yes. So let's get into today's episode. I wanted to get that out of the way with the congratulations. Absolutely. So as you all know, we try to keep this podcast as authentic and as raw as possible as we have been through quite a journey, ⁓ starting with my diagnosis and going into the intensive treatment that I have undergone. And of course, as you all know, from previous episodes, we've taken a very unique approach to therapy, which is that ⁓ Opening: I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Mark has been a big part of that and has attended all the sessions and he has ⁓ really helped me at home design ERP and stay accountable, etc. And so a lot of what we've talked about in our podcast and in previous episodes is what the spouse's perspective is and that even extends to family and in our case, our two teenage children and what it means to have lived with someone with OCD and now as we keep the podcast kind of flowing in the direction that we like to talk about what's going on in our life now, where our life is post intensive treatment. And as I've kind of come more full circle with a new chapter of my own and what that has meant for Mark and for our kids. one of the things that I wanted to do in today's episode is talk. about something that was said in the previous episode that we had ⁓ and kind of dive into that because that one statement was pretty impactful for me and it stayed with me for a little while after our episode ended and after we edited and aired it. ⁓ And so- And not OCD stayed with you? No, not stayed with me as a looping thought of OCD, stayed with me as it being an impactful statement and thinking- I think it needs, it should be addressed again. And part of the reason is because there was an incident that happened last week that mirrored the statement that Mark had made on the previous podcast. And that too was pretty impactful. So I wanted to talk about that. ⁓ I wanted to name this episode and I believe we still will, which is sometimes dot dot dot, the truth hurts. And I think that it's an appropriate title for this podcast. And I also think that there's a little bit of a hot take here as well, because those of us who have OCD, we see everything, we examine everything from an OCD lens and things are very real to us, which when you look at it from a different lens, don't seem as real. And a lot of what we, a lot of the looping thoughts, a lot of the intrusive thoughts aren't necessarily coming from a rational place, right? They're coming from a very fear-based, very anxious place. And I realize and am still coming to realize how much of an effect that has had on Mark and our kids. So. What was the comment that I made? Yeah. So that's that I want to know that. You made a comment. that ⁓ there's been oftentimes in our marriage, not so much recently, thank goodness, but previously, where I have manufactured scenarios and then almost had gotten so, they had gotten so intrusive in my thoughts that I made them happen. I manufactured the scenario and then I made it come true. And, whew. That one was a tough one. And I think in that episode too, I kind of made it known that that was hard for me to hear that. And I thought that would be it. Like I acknowledged it in the podcast and that was it. And now as I'm reflecting, I've gone back through it a few days going, hmm, wow, that's so interesting. And I think he's right. And again, it kind of, it kind of goes back to that idea that I have OCD and I look at everything through an OCD lens. And before intensive treatment, I certainly was doing that. And I wasn't ever recognizing the toll it was taking on you, babe, or our kids, or our marriage, our family life, et cetera. I was really only looking at it through my own lens and knowing what I needed to survive another day. And I didn't do it intentionally to ignore your feelings. I didn't do it to harm our marriage or our family life. But I think when you look at it in the way that you said it, which is that I manufacture things and then see them through, and then it comes true, it took me a minute to think about it. And then something happened last week. And I remember coming to you and talking to you about it and saying, hey, I think that I want to bring this up on our next episode because it's very raw and it's very true to what we're trying to do in this podcast is to- and yeah, and also you recognize that you're starting to do it this week even. Maybe that's what, was it this, am I thinking about the incident that happened this week? Okay. We just wish our son congratulations on his big high school graduation, which is very exciting. And ⁓ we're very proud of him. And he's actually currently the student body president in his high school. And he's been very involved in student government. And so he had an end of the year student government banquet and he invited us to come. And it was later in the day, ⁓ in the evening. And I was at work because the time that the banquet was supposed to start. My work, when I end my day, was close to Right when the banquet starts. Exactly. So it would have been too hard for me to, we would not have had enough time for me to come home, pick you and Avery up if she wanted to come with, and then get back to his school. Which meant that, and then he had to go a little early to get things prepped and ready and whatnot. And so that meant that I had to drive myself, which as we've spoken about, on other episodes, driving was a big part of my OCD and my intrusive thoughts and it was something I did a pretty extensive amount of ERP with and happy to say that I am pretty confident behind the wheel now and that's not something I ever thought I would say. That day in particular, I was starting to feel not my best, starting to feel a little ill and so I took a breather and usually I would use that as an excuse to not do something that would make me uncomfortable. So as we've talked about before as well, like I get very anxious in different social situations because I'm always needing to end conversations that feel just right. And I have a way of doing mental compulsions even when I'm in public, if I'm interacting socially with other people. And so if I can avoid those things, then I would. And that's also very common, I think, in people with OCD. And so already I'm prepping myself, it's just student government banquet. It's fine if I don't go. What have you, what not. But I decided, no, I'm going to get up. I'm going to go. And then I get in the car and I get ready. And I realized that my phone is about to do an update. So I can't use it for Google maps, which I've become a little dependent on. And so all of a sudden I feel my anxiety rising again and the intrusive thought of what if I get lost? Even though you've been to his school. multiple times. Hundreds of times because we used to drop him off. Yes. ⁓ yes. His ninth grade year. But all of that kind of like goes out the window as my anxiety starts to higher. And I say, well, what if I'll get lost? What if I break down? What if I'm late? What if I'm... And it's the constant what if and it started to loop. And so again, I start to manufacture this as a reason not to go to his student government banquet. then all the while, which I did indulge in some mental compulsions even that afternoon, which was to say, he's fine, it's fine, it'll be fine. Of course I'm justified in this because I don't have my phone to get Google Maps and what if this happens and what if that happens? So of course those what ifs would justify my not going. And in the past you would have called me up or texted me and said, I'm not feeling well or. % or I don't have my Google Maps so oh my gosh, I can't go and good luck with it. Let them know I'm sorry. And I would have been like, okay. kind of been like, what the hell? You could absolutely could. But to take in rationalize with you during those times in the past, it wouldn't have worked. So I didn't call you. I didn't try to get your input or get your ⁓ check. I didn't check in to get his reassurance, which is, of course, as you all know, another one of those things that we've worked on. And I just started the car and I started driving. And hey, what do you know, y'all? I got there. And I was just fine and on time and didn't have any trouble because I was okay. So I had manufactured and justified all these reasons in my head why I shouldn't be there. And yet I ended up there. And I was very happy to be there. And as we go through the banquet, they're doing some speeches, they're doing some awards. It's a very It's a very emotional night because these kids have been in student government for their whole, you know, career in high school so far and they've gotten to know each other and done a lot for the school, etc. And so at one point towards the end of the night, I hear Miles, that's our son, I hear him. And I'm not sure it's a good thing he's not going to hear this or not, but I hear him say my name. hear, Mom, Mom, and I turn around. And I can see he's got some tears in his eyes and he's feeling emotional. And he comes up and he hugs me, big bear hug. And then we kind of let go and I can see he's still crying and he's looking at me in this, this way of like, yes, I'm 18 now, mom, and I'm about to graduate from high school, but darn, this is a tough night and I'm seeking you out because I need you. At least that's what I thought. And I can see that in his face. And so I hugged him again. And I said to him, I said, it's okay, it's okay, honey, you're okay, you can cry. And this is an emotional night and you've done a lot of good work in these four years and it's very exciting. But it's hard to say goodbye to it. It's hard to say goodbye to all these people that you've known for so long now. And I went home that night and I can feel myself getting a little emotional at this very moment because I thought to myself, I would have missed that. I would have missed that moment with my son. who needed me in that moment because he was feeling overwhelmed and emotional and I was his support in that moment. And I would have missed that. And then I can't help but start to think as we go down rabbit holes, as we all do as humans, those of us with OCD more so, to keep it in check, that how many moments in my life, in our children's childhood, in my own childhood and adolescence, how many moments have I missed out on? Now I have to stop that thought from coming because that can get intrusive and really challenging for me as someone who has OCD and I could have gone back to a very dark place. Thinking about all of the moments that OCD, intrusive thoughts, anxiety has stolen from me, has taken from me without my even knowing it. Without your permission. Without my permission and my justifying it the whole way with the use of the mental compulsions that I have become so dependent on. and to think about all the moments that I had missed or could have potentially missed because I let it win and I let it. I allowed it to let me manufacture justified reasons in my own head why things were going to have to go this direction or a certain direction. It's startling. Well, and you see it from your side what it stole from you. And this is one of those things that might hurt a little bit too. Brace yourself. Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready for it. But it also stole stuff away from our kids too. When they were younger. Y'all. Like going over to a friend's house and hanging out there or when we went to California, you know, and we're sailing and Miles, you know, was sailing out in the ocean and I'm in the bay. And I know we've talked about that, but that was almost a time that your OCD almost stole that away from him. Mm hmm. Yeah. Which then would have also stolen away that time for me. And which brings me to another thought that I've had recently, which is as someone as the spouse who has OCD, I knew when it was time to get help, I wasn't ready for it. I'm so grateful to Mark. He he really was the one who encouraged and essentially pushed right at first because the idea of doing treatment is very scary and very overwhelming. ⁓ I'm just I can't tell you how much I love this guy and how grateful I am for him every day. ⁓ Unfortunately, we got to an ultimatum. Yeah. And it wasn't our marriage. wasn't me leaving or it wasn't anything like that. For you, it became an ultimatum because you were self-harming yourself. Yes. It was either get the help on your own terms or we're going into the hospital side. And I'm grateful I did it on my own terms with some support. wouldn't have been able to do it without the support. I'm also. when you go into ERP, it's very scary. But then once it starts to work, you kind of want more, even though you know it's going to be uncomfortable and you know it's going to be scary. You want more and more because you're excited as to what your life looks like now. And that's how I got. And so when I'm in it and even out of it, the intensive part at least, I go, I knew what an impact it would have on me. You knew what kind of impact it would potentially have for me because I'm the one who has OCD and and recognize that I still talk about having OCD on the present tense because I think that's a very very important part to always be aware of But I knew what an impact it would have on my life What a positive impact it would have on my life at a certain point in the journey What I didn't give as much Recognition to and I should have Was the positive impact it was going to have on your life, babe? and on our children's life. wasn't thinking about it like that until now you've said some things on the podcast and outside of the podcast that have made me recognize. Wow. The easiest way for me to... put it out there for people. It's like winning the lottery. You won the hundred million dollar lottery all the way through your treatment because you've gone all the way through your treatment. At the end, you won that hundred thousand dollars that you now get to share with the people you love. So in that sense, I benefit, the kids benefit, know, family members benefit, even people that you interact with. benefit from your ERP. But when you started ERP, it's like doing a scratcher. You might win $10 off of a scratcher. For you, it's a little win. That was a little win. Great. $10. It kind of helped my life. I can go to the store and buy whatever I wanted to. You don't get to spread that wealth to family members and that type of thing. And then if you play it again, And you won, you know, a hundred dollars. Okay, great. We're going to go all out to dinner. Then the kids get to benefit in that. I get to benefit in that. You get to benefit in that. Every time you went through ERP, that win became more and more and more. Yes. Wow. I feel like you've been holding onto that analogy for a while. That came out incredibly smooth. That's well done. Well done, babe. But it's like we the lottery. Yes, I've never thought about it like that. And you've never said it to me using that analogy before. Because honestly, I've never thought about it until now. We're sitting here and I'm thinking of an analogy and that was like the best way for me to describe it. That's great. out there that are thinking about going through ERP. At first, you might not see the benefit of a $10 scratch ticket. But then as you continue to play and you continue to win more and more money and then people get to benefit off of your ERP and yourself. Eventually you're going to get to the end where everybody is a win win win scenario. I mean look at the relationship now that you have with the kids, the relationship that you and I have. Yes. Even the relationship you have with your dad or with my mom and you know it's Every relationship that I have is completely different in all the best of ways because I'm different in all the best of ways. I think our therapist is going to really love this episode. She's going to get some, some really great insight here that we've not necessarily shared in therapy yet. That's always fun. like that. You know, so, so to know that, that we are now sitting on that million dollar, hundred million dollar jackpot winning feels really good. It does feel good. And I think it's important for us as those who have OCD. to again, ⁓ take a look at how our, how do I wanna say this in the right way, how our actions, how our thoughts, how our needs are affecting those around us. Because when we're in that moment, it feels so real to us and it feels like that is the only thing that's important. And I didn't realize until much further into the process we got, that I wasn't giving enough credence to the huge impact all of this would have on you. And you say that and you know when you first started with the ERP and stuff I joined some different Facebook groups and listened to other OCD podcasts and stuff and when I read through some of the Facebook stuff that still comes up on my phone today, you know like the contamination OCD piece, you know, as the person that is living with somebody with OCD, I think we can become very frustrated with that. exactly what you just said there, you don't realize how you're impacting our life. negatively or positively, most of the time it's a negative impact. Sure. That OCD side. Which this is the hot take y'all, right? I mean, this is really a podcast designed to understand OCD better, to really explore ERP, to really thrive on building a community of support. But it's also a way for us to be real with what OCD can take from us and from our loved ones and what it means to give it back. So if you are the person that is sitting there with OCD, potentially listening to this. You know, take what Stacey has said, you know, how she didn't realize what her OCD is, how it's impacting and maybe be open if you haven't started ERP or if you haven't started a med management or you haven't, you know, if you're just sitting there and you're just now listening kind of like the first time, like, I know my OCD is taking over my life, but I don't know how much. And if you have OCD, it is taking over your life. There's no there's no if and or but about it. It is taking over your life. And until you start to take the action to take it back, you won't know what's on the other side of it. And trust in our journey and our story. What's on the other side is so incredibly worth it. And it's never too late. And you don't you might not feel that. Right. It takes time. You don't feel that. Absolutely. You know, and that's the piece of, you know, jump into it, know, jump in feet first and you and your partner, you and your significant other, whoever you're you could take up this journey on with. Do it. it isn't ever too late. Mark and I have been married for over 20 years. I've had OCD well before then, back to when I was a teenager, which means I've had it for more than three decades. I'm just now. on the other side of what OCD has demanded of my life. My kids are teenagers. Our son is graduating from high school. But I am still committed to wanting to make it better even now. I'm 48 years old almost. Mark's 48 years old. It's never too late to make these changes and to want to make your life better. Even if you're in your 50s, 60s, 70s. It's never too late. It's never too late to make the change. Jump into it and do it. mean, and you and I were just talking yesterday, you took Avery on a ride over to your dad's condo and, you know, to go swimming and stuff. afterwards she won a Chick-fil-A. Yeah. In the past, A, I would have had to have taken you guys both over to the condo. And you guys were like, hey, we're going to go over to the condo. She left some stuff over there and she wants to get it. Do you want to go with? And I'm like, no, because I ended up doing some work that I had to do for work because right now as a high school principal next week with graduation, everything, it's a very busy time for me. And I want to take some of that time and clear some stuff off my plate. But in the past, I wouldn't have been able to do that. I would have had to have driven you over. You guys came over, you guys hung out at the pool. And then afterwards, she wanted Chick-fil-A. And in the past, yes, you might have gotten yourself over to the condo. But then getting to Chick-fil-A. Going through a drive through was part of your ERP. I would have had to call you. I would have had to seek your reassurance. I'd have to check in to make sure A, is it okay that we go? B, do you think we're going to be okay? C, do you think I can make it? I can't even start to put it into words anymore how often I was checking in and getting reassurance as well. the toll that was taking on you, even the idea, just like what you said, we came over to the condo, you get to stay behind and get some work done. That was never even a choice. Like I took away your choices because of my fears, my intrusive thoughts, my need for control and to try to manage my compulsions. Because I didn't because I knew if I didn't check in or if I didn't get reassurance or if you didn't do that, then I would have to go through my mental compulsions in order to get to the other side. Or I would manufacture a reason not to do anything or go anywhere. ⁓ And to see you walking lighter. It's a big deal for me to see our kids walking lighter is a big deal for me. And I didn't even I didn't see that part coming. because I was still so caught in the, want to make a change. I want to be different because I need my life to be different. And it so beautifully is. But the idea that our whole entire family has benefited by winning the lottery. Thank you for that analogy, babe. That's a really good one. Cause it is. It's like when I married you, I won the lottery. Oh, look at you. A billion dollar lottery. Now you're just being so sweet. ⁓ man, I know, I love you too. And I feel the same way. And that's part of why this worked for us too, is that... We loved each other enough. He loved me enough. To put the demand, either you get help on your own terms or you get it my way because you're going to get help because we're not going to go down a dark path. And part of the reason why I had to get to that point too is because we had a company that was involved. Right. We had employees. There was so many layers of why it had to go down like it did when it did. Yes. And although we no longer have the company or the employees or anything else in that realm, ⁓ we walk taller, we walk stronger. And I'm so grateful that we have done what we've done. And we close that door and other doors have opened now because of it. And because you've gone through the ERP, you are clear minded. Yep. be able to focus on the other aspects of your life that you absolutely love to do, which is right. before you would like, I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna write a book before you even went through ERP and you would start. And then you would stop and then you would start and then you would stop. mean, you did that over a couple of years and you probably got, you know, maybe a thousand words into it before you started and stopped. Cause it wasn't just right. Yeah. And I would go back and rewrite it. Yeah. So you never got to that point to where you actually were starting to write a book. I'm surprised you got through college really. with your OCD. mean, having to write papers. This paper's not just for... I spent a lot of time writing and rewriting and editing. yeah, it was a lot of my life spent doing that. I'm surprised I got through college with your OCD. Yeah. Because you read a lot of my papers and would rewrite them or help edit them and stuff. it's like, oh my goodness, I'm surprised I got them done in the deadline. Now that I think about it, man, was rolling the dice there. If he only had known back then. I might have trusted somebody else. I tell everybody I'm married by spell checker. Yes. You know, Whoa, she came with some. Well. Surprised I made it through college. Let's just say that. Yes. But we did. And here we are. And like Mark said, doors have closed and we have closed them ourselves because we knew that there was a new chapter. and a new door to be opened. And that's what we're doing now with our life. And it's exciting. And it's fun to be at that point to look forward to what's next. And it's so funny, you know, when we were this morning, you were talking about our dogs. Cause we were sitting in Starbucks having, you know, a drink this morning. There's this dog that comes walking, you know, outside and stuff. But like you even said that you are more attached to the animals. than you ever have been. I know that's because you've gone through ERP. Yeah, I think that too. the contamination piece that the dogs would bring. Well, the yes, the cleanse, the cleanliness, the lack of order, a little bit of chaos. ⁓ I'm more embrace. I embrace that more than I used to struggle, but you embrace it a lot more because before it was. There was too many intrusive thoughts about it all that would come up, but yeah, I. I think it's important that we we take a look at. what we're doing as the person who has OCD to those around us. And those people who are the most supportive and are in our corner to make sure that they're taken care of too. And that's kind of the bottom line of what I was trying to get across in this particular episode is that sometimes the truth does hurt. And to hear you have said what you did last episode did make me think and reconsider some things. And then when I... actually saw it potentially play out and then get to the point where I thought, how many moments has OCD taken? That's the moment I went, wow, there's got, we have to be able to talk about that. And I know I've said some things throughout our past episodes too, that have been new to you and new information and stuff because just the topics that were talking about and whatnot. you know, if you didn't, if you would not have gone through ERP, I know I would not have shared that with you because I know it would have, you wouldn't have been ready to hear it. Yeah. And now that you've gone through that treatment, you are ready to hear it. I felt comfortable sharing it with you ⁓ because we have won the hundred million dollar lottery. Yes. You're more, you know, you're more willing to hear those things than you ever have been. Absolutely. And I'm also more aware of when something comes up in my life going, ⁓ this is OCD. This isn't rational. This isn't typical. This isn't something that most people think about or deal with. This is your OCD talking. And so if you know that now, what are we going to do about it? Whereas before the OCD was just. Yeah. making a list, taking names, etc. We were just. So if you're out there and you have a spouse that has OCD, know, I probably wouldn't walk up to them and say, your OCDs robbed me of my, you past 20 years. unless you're looking for a fight, unless you're looking for a fight, you know, your marriage or whatever. to help support the idea that it's never too late for someone to get help if they're ready and if they want it and to. to encourage and to keep encouraging. And as always, we'd love to hear from you. So, like, I mean, I know we always, you know, if you've gone through this journey with your significant other, if you want to come on, but even if you have a significant other that's dealing with OCD and hasn't started it, maybe you guys want to come on and share. We want to hear from you. We want to your stories. We want to hear your take. We want to hear your thoughts. This is how we build this community, which is really supporting not only just the person who has OCD, but their spouses, partners, families, friends, et cetera. Thank you. Once again, thank you for listening with us. And thank you for living uncertain with us every day. And congratulations, Miles. Appreciate you all out there. Thank you. All right. Bye.