Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Will Bitcoin Make Microsoft the Next Microstrategy? | EP 1131

Transcript

Will Bitcoin Make Microsoft the Next Microstrategy? | EP 1131 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Yo. Only hours after Sailor
• 0:02
  bombarded the Microsoft board with 52 slides in 3 minutes to
• 0:07
  convince them to buy Bitcoin, the Giga Chad went on the
• 0:11
  national news and gave another master class.
• 0:15
  Will Microsoft be able to resist the Bitcoin playbook?
• 0:19
  I don't know we'll see let's check out the clip and then
• 0:21
  we'll talk about it. Let's check it out Tell.
• 0:24
  Me what you think or told Microsoft that they should do
• 0:27
  and and what are the chances that happen?
• 0:30
  Microsoft is buying its own stock back.
• 0:32
  It's buying bonds. It's dividing out cash flows.
• 0:36
  If they simply swept their existing cash into Bitcoin, it
• 0:40
  probably adds a trillion of the market cap and $150.00 to the
• 0:44
  share price. If they converted the dividend
• 0:47
  into Bitcoin as another $150.00 to the share price, Another
• 0:51
  trillion to the market cap. If they replace the buybacks
• 0:55
  with Bitcoin, instead of surrendering the capital, they
• 0:58
  invest the capital adds another trillion dollars and $150.00 to
• 1:02
  the share price. If they just take a little bit
• 1:05
  of leverage, they basically take 10% leverage on a, on a huge
• 1:09
  stack of Bitcoin, they add another trillion.
• 1:12
  So what I'm saying is instead of surrendering the capital and and
• 1:16
  then leveraging up the company, right now Microsoft trades at 20
• 1:20
  times forward expectations. So what you're, what you're or,
• 1:25
  or I'll say it, 95% of the enterprise value of Microsoft is
• 1:30
  based on expectations is the best way to say it, right?
• 1:33
  And that means it has it's very asset poor.
• 1:36
  It's expectation rich. Why don't you actually buy
• 1:39
  assets and instead of being 95% on expectations be 50% on
• 1:44
  expectations de risk the company grow the enterprise value and
• 1:51
  and feed the digital economy of the future.
• 1:54
  What was the response? The shareholder meeting is
• 1:57
  December 10th. We'll find out.
• 2:00
  What do you expect? Glazed eyes.
• 2:03
  I don't have any illusions that mega corporations are going to
• 2:07
  immediately embrace Bitcoin. But what I do think is it's
• 2:10
  going to become part of the conversation and there are about
• 2:13
  120 companies that are public that are starting to hold
• 2:17
  Bitcoin right now. There are a lot of Bitcoin
• 2:19
  standard companies like Mara, like similar, like Metaplanet,
• 2:25
  like you know, Rumble is getting into the business and as they
• 2:30
  start to buy Bitcoin and issue fixed income securities and
• 2:34
  equity securities, you're going to see demand increase.
• 2:39
  So what inning are we in, you think?
• 2:41
  Sorry. What inning?
• 2:42
  It feels like we're in like the second inning of of, of all, or
• 2:45
  even, maybe not even. Yeah, I, I think we get into the
• 2:48
  third inning when we cross $100,000.
• 2:51
  That's the third right now. We're still early.
• 2:54
  I think that there's. A softball game, it could might
• 2:57
  be a twilight doubleheader even might might be or, you know,
• 3:01
  maybe 13 or 14 innings. Michael, thank you.
• 3:04
  I'm going to go home and think some more.
• 3:07
  I, I think on this after you come in and then my head starts
• 3:10
  hurting and then then I give up. But thank you, Joe.
• 3:14
  You're welcome. I'd like to tie SO.
• 3:17
  Why is everyone's head spinning? Why is Michael Saylor just
• 3:23
  blowing Wall Street out of the water?
• 3:25
  Why is everyone so confused? Why is everyone looking at this
• 3:29
  and saying, what is this guy doing?
• 3:32
  Well, take a look at the market cap of MicroStrategy.
• 3:37
  You want to talk about a 20 year vindication?
• 3:41
  Here it is so back in the infamous.com boom and bust.
• 3:48
  His market cap micro strategies market cap peaked at $10.87
• 3:53
  billion. It literally went sideways from
• 3:57
  2001 to 2020. Only gained about $900 million
• 4:03
  in market cap in those 20 years and the 20.
• 4:08
  The 20 year vindication started when he started the Bitcoin
• 4:13
  strategy. Microstrategy's market cap was
• 4:16
  roughly at one point two 1.3 billion.
• 4:21
  Fast forward four years later, I'm kind of like, excuse my
• 4:27
  language, fuck, maybe I should have put 25% of my net worth in
• 4:30
  micro strategy because he literally 80 exed it.
• 4:33
  Or like 60 exed the market cap of micro strategy.
• 4:38
  That is absolutely insane. That is the 20 year vindication,
• 4:43
  I think is a testament of never giving up.
• 4:47
  And here's some of the slides from yesterday's video, which
• 4:50
  you guys loved yesterday's shows all time high.
• 4:53
  We appreciate all the supporters think the show ended up with
• 4:56
  like 20,000 views, 40,000 views and listens across all
• 5:00
  platforms. And it's not even the end of the
• 5:02
  week. So that's pretty effing crazy.
• 5:04
  We appreciate you guys like the Smash the Like button if you
• 5:07
  guys are enjoying today's show, but here's some screenshots from
• 5:11
  yesterday's yesterday's presentation.
• 5:16
  Michael Saylor only had three minutes to make a presentation
• 5:20
  for the Microsoft board to convince them to buy Bitcoin.
• 5:25
  So here are some of the slides that really popped out to me.
• 5:28
  First one, what if you could buy $100 billion, $100 billion
• 5:33
  company growing at 60% per year at 1X revenue?
• 5:38
  What if this company was more profitable than your own?
• 5:42
  And then he kind of like lays it out.
• 5:44
  We've gone through what the the different strategies are based
• 5:49
  on Michael Saylor's open source calculator, which we've used on
• 5:54
  a simply Bitcoin before. You guys absolutely loved that
• 5:57
  episode as well. The episode is called How much
• 5:59
  Bitcoin do you need to retire? The one that had 16,000 views or
• 6:03
  so. But anyways, these are kind of
• 6:05
  different models based on what your exposure is to Bitcoin and
• 6:10
  then based on what model Microsoft decides to use.
• 6:16
  Michael Saylor is making the case that that the board could
• 6:20
  add 1 trillion to $4.9 trillion worth of shareholder value just
• 6:27
  by buying Bitcoin, just by having exposure to Bitcoin.
• 6:31
  So not even changing the business model, not even
• 6:34
  changing their operations, not even increasing revenue, just by
• 6:38
  diverting the cash or cash equivalents, a percentage of
• 6:43
  those and putting into Bitcoin. This is how much shareholder
• 6:48
  value Microsoft can unlock. This is the case that Sailor is
• 6:54
  making. Also, another way of looking at
• 6:57
  it, this is in terms of share price increases.
• 7:01
  So goes from $155, that's what they kind of minimum Bitcoin
• 7:06
  exposure to a, you know, balls deep kind of Bitcoin exposure.
• 7:11
  What Sailor coins, the triple maxi $584 worth of share value
• 7:17
  increase. And again, Microsoft doesn't
• 7:20
  have to change anything. They don't have to come up with
• 7:23
  a different revenue model or come up with a different
• 7:26
  business strategy. No, none of that.
• 7:29
  All they have to do is divert some of their cash, treasure
• 7:33
  some of their cash reserves or cash equivalent and put it into
• 7:38
  Bitcoin. By the way, this is something,
• 7:41
  this phenomenon is not just happening with MicroStrategy.
• 7:46
  This phenomenon is happening, I would say, on a worldwide level.
• 7:50
  Marathon announced recently that they're following the
• 7:54
  MicroStrategy playbook and today we have a dear friend of the
• 7:59
  show, CEO and founder of Bitcoin, well, Adam O'Brien
• 8:02
  himself. And they just announced that
• 8:05
  they are the first Canada's first publicly traded Bitcoin
• 8:10
  exchange to adopt A Bitcoin strategy, adding 7.5 Bitcoin and
• 8:15
  planning $2,000,000 in bonds to stack more.
• 8:20
  So we also have Brandon from Green Lit Candle Investments,
• 8:25
  awesome podcast, incredible content creator, love Bitcoin
• 8:28
  content creators coming on the show.
• 8:30
  Adam, I'm going to pass it on to you.
• 8:32
  What is happening here? I mean, you could just tell by
• 8:35
  squawk's face. He he even said at the end he's
• 8:37
  like, I'm confused. But thank you Sailor.
• 8:39
  Thank you for confusing me. So what is happening?
• 8:43
  Did did Sailor find the infinite money glitch?
• 8:47
  Are you guys are you guys implementing the infinite money
• 8:50
  glitch? What is going on?
• 8:52
  What is taking wall stream by storm?
• 8:55
  Adam, the floor is yours. Yeah, man, I mean it seems like
• 8:59
  there is a window. Look, the way that I see this
• 9:02
  and for those, for those that are might be watching, I've
• 9:06
  been, yeah, I've been calling the MSTR strategy.
• 9:12
  I, I think there's a window of opportunity where this is very,
• 9:16
  very good and it has potential to be good for a very, very long
• 9:20
  time. The underlying business is
• 9:22
  important. I think the way that we're doing
• 9:25
  it is effectively giving a convertible debt on, on our
• 9:30
  business, which is going to be convertible into shares.
• 9:35
  We're paying interest in shares. This is from my perspective, an
• 9:39
  equity product that gives the the convertible debt holder a
• 9:43
  little bit of security because at the end of the day, it's
• 9:46
  still, it's still a debt owned by the company and we're going
• 9:50
  to take that cash and we're going to buy Bitcoin.
• 9:54
  And so it does create a little bit of positive arbitrage in
• 9:58
  that the way that we're structuring it anyways.
• 10:00
  And it's a little bit different than the MSTR stuff because
• 10:03
  we're way smaller and in Canadian micro cap land isn't
• 10:06
  the same as you know, micro strategy on the NASDAQ it as a
• 10:10
  as a now $100 billion company. But the way that we've got it
• 10:14
  structured is we borrow money once it converts, then that debt
• 10:19
  goes away and then there's a warrant for the the debt holder
• 10:23
  as well, which means they get to buy shares at a later date.
• 10:26
  So it's very attractive to the early stage investor.
• 10:30
  And from our perspective, we kind of get money in two
• 10:32
  different intervals, once kind of right away as the share price
• 10:36
  increases and then once as the share price goes up about 40%.
• 10:40
  And so if this works and it should, in a perfect world, we
• 10:46
  will have, we will take the cash, we will buy Bitcoin, we
• 10:49
  will do good business initiatives.
• 10:51
  Those two things should you know, yield positive results.
• 10:55
  Positive results means share price goes up.
• 10:57
  Share price goes up means the debt goes away.
• 10:59
  The debt goes away means the share price goes up.
• 11:02
  As the share price goes up, more cash comes in from the warrant.
• 11:06
  We buy Bitcoin, do good business things and repeat.
• 11:10
  And so I think it's less of a infinite money glitch and more
• 11:15
  of a steward of shareholder capital coupled with, you know,
• 11:19
  Fiat markets at work. We have the ability to issue
• 11:22
  equity in our company, which people already find valuable.
• 11:25
  We have the ability to then take money in, buy Bitcoin and also
• 11:29
  invest in our Bitcoin business. So we're heavily stocked up on
• 11:34
  on Bitcoin exposure. And I think doubling, tripling,
• 11:36
  quadrupling down on Bitcoin exposure is a positive thing for
• 11:40
  for our business certainly. Absolutely, man dude, I will
• 11:45
  first of all, Adam, what I got to say is, you know, to how long
• 11:54
  could people keep this up before it breaks?
• 11:56
  I. Think there's a?
• 11:58
  There's a. Second point of being 1st and
• 12:01
  This is why like, so I've been on this, this, this MSTR journey
• 12:05
  for probably two months now poking holes, you know, finding
• 12:10
  the problems that I didn't like, you know, a big one's going to
• 12:13
  be the custody thing. You know, I think that like
• 12:17
  Sailor is, is like the way that the debt converts was, was was
• 12:22
  my miss at first. If it converts on the way up,
• 12:26
  then all those liabilities go away and, and that kind of fixes
• 12:29
  the problem. But there will come a time when
• 12:33
  you will no longer get the insane premium on just simply
• 12:37
  owning Bitcoin. And that happens ironically,
• 12:40
  like if I'm going to if if I'm going to watch Microsoft adopt A
• 12:45
  Bitcoin strategy and then Apple's going to do it and then
• 12:48
  Amazon's going to do it and then Tesla's going to do it
• 12:50
  eventually. You know, right now there's no
• 12:54
  real competition for that, for that, that level of exposure
• 12:57
  where an operating business can borrow an issue equity to stack
• 13:01
  cheap stats. And so as competition comes into
• 13:05
  space, or you know, what if half of the S&P 500 was doing this,
• 13:09
  that premium comes down significantly.
• 13:12
  Just, you know, like the free market economics.
• 13:14
  And so probably we have a window of time, which is thanks to
• 13:19
  bureaucracy, thanks to these, you know, incredibly lengthy and
• 13:23
  bureaucratic shareholder meetings and, and the, and the
• 13:26
  decision making process of these trillion dollar companies.
• 13:29
  That's our window of time. Because at the end of the day,
• 13:33
  to Sailor's point, like, why do you have cash?
• 13:36
  Why on earth are you holding an asset guaranteed to go down in
• 13:40
  value? And we've seen businesses try to
• 13:42
  prop this up with real estate or with, you know, other
• 13:44
  investments like look at Coinbase with their venture arm.
• 13:47
  Like you've seen this, you've seen people try to do this, you
• 13:50
  just kind of have a guaranteed return in Bitcoin and people are
• 13:54
  going to figure that over the next three to five years.
• 13:56
  And I think that's the window. It's interesting you say that
• 13:59
  because it was, I remember it was Mauricio from Lend.
• 14:03
  He he made the same case, right? He's like, it's literally
• 14:06
  because people don't, there is no equivalent product to what
• 14:12
  MicroStrategy offers. And that will eventually be
• 14:17
  filled up by someone else. But because of the bureaucracy,
• 14:21
  like you said, sometimes people can't get exposure to Bitcoin or
• 14:26
  sometimes people can't get exposure to leverage Bitcoin.
• 14:29
  So they're using MicroStrategy as that vehicle, which is
• 14:32
  fascinating. And kind of, you know, I don't
• 14:34
  know if Saylor did this on purpose, but you know, in
• 14:37
  hindsight, it looks like a 4D chess move.
• 14:40
  And it's also really a really exciting from a Bitcoin well,
• 14:45
  shareholders perspective because it seems like you guys are
• 14:48
  following that strategy as well. Do you want to add to that?
• 14:51
  Yeah, man. So like if you look at our at
• 14:54
  our stock price, so we're like we're a micro cap in Canada
• 14:58
  worth less than 100 million bucks penny stock and ours like
• 15:03
  we're called Bitcoin. Well our ticker is BTCW dot V
• 15:08
  and we track the price of Bitcoin.
• 15:10
  Like if you if you overlay Bitcoin onto Bitcoin, well it
• 15:14
  looks the same. The difference is we are kind of
• 15:16
  a hyper volatile version of Bitcoin.
• 15:18
  So historically Bitcoin go up, Bitcoin well go up more and then
• 15:23
  also Bitcoin go down, Bitcoin well go down more.
• 15:27
  My job as the CEO is to make sure that we can, you know, make
• 15:31
  Bitcoin well go up more and then limit Bitcoin go or Bitcoin well
• 15:35
  go down more. And so in my mind, the best way
• 15:38
  to do that is to cash up with the vehicles and with the with
• 15:42
  the Fiat instruments that are available to us on the public
• 15:45
  markets. I was talking to my bankers
• 15:47
  yesterday and like we've had really good response.
• 15:49
  We opened this up yesterday. We've had a great response so
• 15:52
  far. The Canadian markets are excited
• 15:55
  for something like this and we're doing it in a way that I
• 15:58
  think is very, again, very friendly to the investors on
• 16:01
  this, on this first go around. And if it's successful, then
• 16:05
  yeah, we're going to look at the playbook and you know, take from
• 16:08
  the sailor playbook what we like probably adopt more, a lot more
• 16:11
  self custody than you know, we're not going to pile more
• 16:14
  coins into the honeypot that is Coinbase.
• 16:17
  We're going to, we're going to do like we're a Bitcoin first
• 16:20
  company. And if we can give people like
• 16:24
  my goal is that our shareholders are our users and our users are
• 16:29
  our shareholders. And you know, I put out this
• 16:32
  kind of vision cast a few months ago of the Bitcoin super company
• 16:36
  creating an environment where we can help usher forward the
• 16:40
  Bitcoin standard, kind of be the Fiat, the conduit between
• 16:43
  Bitcoin and self custody and the legacy Fiat system.
• 16:46
  And this is another tool in our, in our tool belt.
• 16:49
  So it's, it's been crazy. I've spent, I think I tweeted
• 16:52
  last night the words, I've spent an unholy amount of time with
• 16:55
  investment bankers over the last few weeks putting this together
• 16:59
  and organizing this and kind of going through how all the
• 17:02
  different debts going to be structured.
• 17:03
  But the real game changer here is that is a specific term in
• 17:08
  there called a pick a payment in kind, which means we do not have
• 17:13
  to pay, we, we pay the interest in equity, not in cash,
• 17:17
  typically debt. And we've taken on punitive debt
• 17:19
  in the past out of a, out of a place of, of, you know, some,
• 17:23
  some desperation during, you know, the, the big dips.
• 17:26
  And, and what I've learnt is the, the debt is holding us back
• 17:31
  from growth. The debt is holding us back from
• 17:33
  stacking. And so I was always very anti,
• 17:37
  very anti debt. That would be punitive to our
• 17:40
  operations and to helping us advance our mission.
• 17:43
  But payment in kind means we're getting investors that are
• 17:46
  taking debt have some security, but we pay them an equity.
• 17:50
  So these are investors that are interested in the company's
• 17:53
  success, not just, you know, clipping a coupon in cash for a
• 17:58
  free warrant. And that's a, that's a key
• 18:00
  distinction that I think is beneficial to the company, but
• 18:03
  also from the shareholders looking at other shareholders,
• 18:06
  it creates this awesome, everyone's got aligned
• 18:08
  incentives here where typically in a debt, in a debt
• 18:11
  environment, you've got maybe some misaligned incentives.
• 18:14
  I think we're lucky that we have the ability to have aligned
• 18:17
  incentives across our shareholders, our debt holders,
• 18:20
  and you know, us as the company, which is cool.
• 18:23
  Beautiful, beautiful. I'm a big fan of aligned
• 18:25
  incentives. What it is what makes Bitcoin
• 18:29
  tick anyways guys shout out to the 1600 of you guys watching
• 18:33
  live between YouTube rumble and X.
• 18:35
  If you guys are enjoying the show so far, make sure to smash
• 18:38
  that like button you're you're listening to simply Bitcoin
• 18:42
  live. Also, we have Brandon.
• 18:43
  Brandon is one of my favorite Bitcoin only content creators.
• 18:47
  His incredible YouTube channel does great interviews.
• 18:51
  Brandon, how you doing today? Welcome to Simply Bitcoin.
• 18:56
  Brandon, you are muted my friend.
• 18:59
  That is a rookie. What is going on?
• 19:01
  I thought you were a content. Creator come on, man, come on, I
• 19:04
  that's that's on me hand up. I messed up on that one, but I'm
• 19:07
  hyped to be here boys. I mean how could you not be with
• 19:11
  this news going on Michael Saylor orange peeling Microsoft,
• 19:15
  I mean it's absolutely unreal. So shout out to Adam too for
• 19:18
  doing the same strategy. But I don't know, I was
• 19:20
  backstage just sitting here getting a little fidgety boys.
• 19:23
  So I did a little math here to, to, to bring to the show.
• 19:27
  So it's, it's pocket math. So don't hate me for it, but I
• 19:30
  was looking at micro Microsoft's market cap $3.197 trillion
• 19:37
  comparatively to micro strategy, it's at 76.79 billion.
• 19:43
  I, I think my pocket math has that as 41 times bigger than
• 19:47
  micro strategy. And you know, if Microsoft was a
• 19:51
  country, it would be bigger than France as if you're looking at a
• 19:55
  nominal GDP. So I mean, this is absolutely
• 19:58
  huge. I mean, he said that, you know,
• 19:59
  we're in the third inning here or the 1st inning.
• 20:02
  Excuse me, just kind of, you know, waiting for Bitcoin to
• 20:05
  cross that 100 Ki mean once this vote comes out, man, I, I mean,
• 20:10
  it might be tough to scoop up some of these cheap sats.
• 20:12
  So I'm excited for the future and yeah, excited to be here.
• 20:16
  And thank you guys so much for for having me.
• 20:18
  Well, dude, thank you so much for coming on the show guys stay
• 20:22
  tuned because we have a whole lot of content.
• 20:25
  We Opti hasn't even spoken yet. We're 20 minutes in.
• 20:28
  This is. I'm here just to look, pretty
• 20:30
  guys. I'm here just to look.
• 20:31
  Listen bro, you didn't have to look like a hunter because Adam
• 20:34
  was joining the show today. I'm, I'm just kind of cold guys
• 20:38
  don't mind me I'm I'm, I'm cold in my apartment.
• 20:40
  I think it's getting winter here and I need to turn on the
• 20:42
  heater. So This is why I'm.
• 20:44
  Dude, I drove here in the snowman.
• 20:46
  It's been I've been in a parka for two.
• 20:49
  You gotta you gotta you gotta change your perspective bro.
• 20:52
  Hey, I am not, I am not up north in the winter, you know.
• 20:55
  So winter is just coming for me, Adam.
• 20:58
  OK, just hit me like last week. All right, guys, we have a ton
• 21:03
  of content for you guys. We have James Lavish responding
• 21:07
  to Michael Saylor's infinite money glitch.
• 21:10
  And of course, it seems like the European Union is going down the
• 21:15
  totalitarian path. We have talks of digital IDs.
• 21:19
  We have talks of central bank digital currencies, and
• 21:22
  yesterday in the French parliament they were talking
• 21:25
  about taxing unrealized capital gains.
• 21:28
  Well, it looks like France is going to have fun staying poor,
• 21:31
  so stay tuned guys as we have a load of content and during the
• 21:34
  culture segment, we're going to talk to Adam O'Brien.
• 21:36
  We're going to talk to Brandon so much to get to stay tuned
• 21:40
  before we jump into today's show, I give a shout out to
• 21:43
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  You want to maintain the relationship with your
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  grandchildren. Eventually you're going to want
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  to pass on your Bitcoin. And imagine having that
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  conversation many, many now 50-60 years from now.
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  And your grandchildren look at you, make eye contact and
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  they're like, grandpapa, are you going to pass me the grand, my,
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  my generational wealth? And you look at them and you're
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  At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is $95,690.00
• 25:39
  block height 870,100 SAT's per dollar 1045 market cap 1.89
• 25:47
  trillion Bitcoin priced in gold 36.2 ounces Bitcoin verse gold
• 25:54
  market cap 10.29% Percentage issued 94.24% Decline from all
• 25:59
  time high -4.1% realized monetary inflation 1.18%
• 26:06
  Continuing to take Fiat currencies to absolute school.
• 26:11
  Anyways, I love this idea of breaking the Bitcoin echo
• 26:15
  chamber and for some reason people still believe that the
• 26:19
  legacy media, mainstream media is is is the mainstream media.
• 26:23
  But if you look at the raw numbers, looks like independent
• 26:26
  media is taking its place. However, there's something up
• 26:30
  about the prestige. There's something about, you
• 26:33
  know, the chyrons and the, and the anchors and you know,
• 26:37
  they're professionally spoken and the graphics and all that,
• 26:40
  that makes it super legit and to to some people.
• 26:44
  And you know, we all have to remember that us Bitcoin
• 26:47
  content, we make Bitcoin, we make content for other
• 26:52
  bitcoiners. It's so our goal is really to
• 26:55
  break that echo chamber. And the way you do that is by
• 26:59
  going on the legacy media and talking about Bitcoin.
• 27:04
  So here's a friend of the show, James Lavish, who recently went
• 27:07
  on Charles Payne, which is a show of he's an anchor on Fox
• 27:11
  Business. I have the clip for you guys.
• 27:13
  I'll play it. It's about 5 minutes long.
• 27:15
  I don't know if we'll get through the entire thing and
• 27:17
  then we'll talk about it with the.
• 27:20
  Over Elon Musk. Because nobody right now is
• 27:23
  rattling the cages of traditional Wall Street more
• 27:25
  than Michael Saylor. And of course, it's the same
• 27:27
  crowd of naysayers who lost billions of dollars shorting
• 27:30
  Tesla. And while they're at it again
• 27:33
  with their friends in a financial media taunting
• 27:36
  Bitcoin, Michael Saylor. And of course, all the suckers
• 27:39
  who are drinking the Kool-aid. Nobody would call my next guest
• 27:42
  a sucker, but I think he's ranking the kool-aid too.
• 27:45
  Want to bring a Bitcoin opportunity to fund Co managing
• 27:47
  partner James Lavish? You know, James, explain the
• 27:52
  value proposition for those at the back of the room who haven't
• 27:54
  been paying attention. Yeah, well, it's good to be
• 27:58
  here, Charles. Thank you for having me.
• 27:59
  Drinking the kool-aid is a good way to put it.
• 28:01
  But look, Michael has come up with a brilliant strategy at
• 28:05
  Micro Strategy, and people are calling it a money glitch for a
• 28:08
  reason. Why?
• 28:09
  Because Michael has found a way to issue stock and make it
• 28:12
  immediately accretive for his shareholders.
• 28:15
  This is something that Wall Street is not used to.
• 28:17
  Normally you issue shares, you do a secondary and it's usually
• 28:20
  dilutive unless you can do something very quickly to make
• 28:23
  to to create some value for your shareholders.
• 28:26
  Well, what he does is he's borrowing money and buying
• 28:29
  Bitcoin with it. So just for instance, if he
• 28:32
  issues $100 million of stock and he buys $100 million of Bitcoin,
• 28:36
  the stock goes up 200 to $300 million in market value and it's
• 28:40
  immediately accretive, not dilutive.
• 28:43
  And that's because people understand what he's doing.
• 28:45
  The people who are buying a stock understand what he's doing
• 28:48
  and that he's and he's creating this, this value for them, this
• 28:52
  underlying value for him. The other thing he's doing is
• 28:55
  he's issuing convertible debt and he can do that.
• 28:58
  Charles at near 0 yield or the last one he did was $3 billion
• 29:03
  for 0% yield. And why can he do that?
• 29:06
  He can do it because the MSTR stock is underlying.
• 29:09
  His stock is volatile and it's volatile because of the
• 29:12
  underlying holding Bitcoin, but it's also volatile to the
• 29:16
  upside, which creates, which creates optionality for his, his
• 29:21
  buyers. And so he's able to issue this,
• 29:24
  this, these converts at almost 0 yield because there's
• 29:28
  optionality for those hedge funds to buy that convert debt
• 29:32
  and trade around it. And then ultimately they'll look
• 29:35
  to, they'll look to convert it into the underlying stock and
• 29:39
  they'll get value from that as well.
• 29:41
  So, James, we're going to put up a chart showing micro strategy
• 29:44
  and Bitcoin itself. MSTR significantly outperformed
• 29:49
  the the the the the the value proposition that you just
• 29:52
  described. Is it?
• 29:53
  Is that the only thing? Is there some other sort of
• 29:55
  arbitrage situation going on? You know, I, I, I would think
• 30:00
  that there are hedge funds that are trying to arbitrage this and
• 30:02
  that would be buying Bitcoin or buying Bitcoin futures and then
• 30:06
  shorting micro strategy, which I would say is a pretty dangerous
• 30:09
  strategy. I wouldn't be doing that myself,
• 30:12
  but the reason is what I just said is that it's trading at a
• 30:15
  multiple because he's creating Bitcoin, underlying Bitcoin by
• 30:18
  borrowing money against it. And as you go into the future,
• 30:21
  these these shares would be worth more because of that
• 30:24
  underlying Bitcoin. Now how long this goes on for
• 30:28
  it's, it's hard to say, but it can go on for a very long time.
• 30:32
  If if you he's right now trading, if you take all the
• 30:35
  shares, dilute all of them out and and assume that every single
• 30:38
  share is converted from all those converts, he's trading at
• 30:42
  about a 2.7 multiple of shares, the share price to the
• 30:48
  underlying Bitcoin. Leave it at their.
• 30:50
  I mean leave it at that spot. I mean, that sounded very, very
• 30:54
  similar to what Adam was saying in the beginning, Adam.
• 31:00
  Like my, my question to you is like, why should people buy
• 31:04
  Bitcoin if they could just buy Bitcoin, well, stock or
• 31:09
  MicroStrategy? Why should people buy Bitcoin if
• 31:12
  you don't? MicroStrategy is outperforming.
• 31:15
  I think that's the question on a lot of people's minds.
• 31:17
  We got a lot of comments regarding that on yesterday's
• 31:21
  episode. What are your thoughts, Adam?
• 31:24
  Yeah, man. I mean, Bitcoin, well, and micro
• 31:27
  strategies are not Bitcoin. I think sailors said this
• 31:30
  himself. And I would certainly fall in
• 31:33
  this camp, too. In 50 years, you know, I'll be
• 31:36
  like an old senile man. And who knows, you know, where
• 31:41
  the company is going to be. It'll be worth trillions of
• 31:43
  dollars at that point. But I'm not too sure it'll be,
• 31:46
  you know, in 50 years I'll be like 80.
• 31:49
  You probably don't want me running this ship, but Bitcoin
• 31:52
  will just be TikTok. Nice block baby.
• 31:54
  And so I think you buy Bitcoin for freedom, you buy Bitcoin for
• 31:57
  security, you buy Bitcoin because it's guaranteed
• 32:00
  bitcoins, guaranteed generational wealth.
• 32:02
  I don't care what you have to say otherwise you're wrong.
• 32:06
  It's guaranteed generational wealth and Bitcoin, well, micro
• 32:10
  strategies, you know, Mara, these other groups that are
• 32:15
  adopting generational wealth, they got a good shot at, you
• 32:19
  know, progressing into generations, but you're still
• 32:23
  reliant. There's still, there's still
• 32:24
  single points of failure. I am a single point of failure
• 32:27
  at Bitcoin. Well, 'cause if I make a wrong
• 32:28
  decision, the company's going to suffer because of it.
• 32:32
  Sailor is a single point of failure.
• 32:34
  Coinbase in the micro strategies charade is a single point of
• 32:37
  failure. Those exist in these games.
• 32:40
  And so I think it's just a risk that you need to be comfortable
• 32:44
  with before you jump in. They're attractive risks.
• 32:47
  They're seemingly hedged in this day and age, but the risks
• 32:51
  nonetheless. And I think that you got to go
• 32:53
  into with the eyes open, Bitcoin is not Bitcoin well or is not
• 32:58
  micro strategies or is not Mara or Microsoft or any of these
• 33:02
  other companies. And I think that's the key
• 33:05
  difference is just, you know, one is guaranteed generational
• 33:10
  wealth, programmable protocol driven money.
• 33:13
  The other is a company ran run by a handful of individuals that
• 33:19
  are free to make the decisions that they think is best.
• 33:22
  That's a good answer, but still an adx Adam, an adx bro, an adx
• 33:27
  I'm. I'm I'm shooting for an ADX.
• 33:30
  I'm going to make the MSTRI think.
• 33:32
  Actually I. You're you you, but the Bitcoin
• 33:35
  well stock has outperformed well.
• 33:37
  We might be neck and neck now, but we were up 700% on the year
• 33:41
  where they were up 560%. But again, like it's all, it's
• 33:47
  all a risk calc. You mean you also you couldn't
• 33:49
  buy $10 million worth of Bitcoin?
• 33:51
  Well, stock because it'll pump it to like 10 bucks or something
• 33:54
  dumb. And so like, yeah, there's just
• 33:57
  all kinds of other considerations you need to make
• 33:59
  when you think about, yeah, I don't even look at Bitcoin as an
• 34:02
  investment. I look at Bitcoin as savings.
• 34:04
  I think I've said that even on the show before.
• 34:05
  Bitcoin is a freedom tool. Bitcoin is a tool for your
• 34:07
  grandkids. Bitcoin is savings.
• 34:09
  That's where your excess capital goes.
• 34:12
  You know, you should take your gains from a Bitcoin, well, from
• 34:15
  an MSTR and put it into Bitcoin. You should save it in Bitcoin.
• 34:19
  But yeah, if you got some, if you got some money to go to the
• 34:22
  Fiat, you know, the Fiat world, probably a Bitcoin company
• 34:28
  running a Bitcoin standard is like a pretty good move in my
• 34:32
  opinion. But I'm also in the biased
• 34:34
  chair, so let's rock'n'roll. And yeah, I'd love to make the
• 34:38
  MSTR gains look like flat, so we'll see.
• 34:42
  Love it, love it guys. You're listening to simply
• 34:44
  Bitcoin live. We just broke 500 live viewers
• 34:48
  on YouTube and between all platforms.
• 34:50
  We just broke 2000 live viewers. Help us break 200 likes within
• 34:56
  the 1st 45 minutes of the show. I'm going to pass it on to
• 35:00
  Brandon. Brandon, same question to you,
• 35:02
  my friend. Why should people buy Bitcoin
• 35:05
  instead of MicroStrategy or Bitcoin?
• 35:08
  Well. Yeah, I mean, I, I really like
• 35:11
  to Adam's answer there where Bitcoin to me is, is more
• 35:14
  savings technology opposed to, you know, buying a stock.
• 35:19
  There is, you know, the single point of failure.
• 35:21
  There's all these different kinds of regulations that a
• 35:24
  company can, you know, face Michael Saylor could, I don't
• 35:28
  know, get in some hot water or something like that.
• 35:31
  You know, I mean, they could be coming at him.
• 35:33
  We even saw it last year. I think the state of Washington
• 35:36
  tried to come at Michael Saylor for some tax evasion or
• 35:39
  something along those lines. So I think like, you know, just
• 35:43
  having that single point of failure is, you know, a big take
• 35:47
  away from all this. But I also think that you should
• 35:50
  support Bitcoin companies as well that are trying to live on
• 35:54
  a quote UN quote Bitcoin standard, trying to help bring
• 35:57
  along, you know, traditional finance.
• 35:59
  And so, yeah, I mean, I think it, there's room for a micro
• 36:03
  strategy Bitcoin well in your portfolio.
• 36:06
  But I think, you know, if you're saving, there's nothing better
• 36:10
  in on planet Earth that's ever been created than owning Bitcoin
• 36:14
  and being able to hold that privately yourself, hold your
• 36:17
  own keys and and kind of move it forward that way.
• 36:20
  You know, there also is ways to diversify like we've kind of
• 36:24
  gone over and I think, you know, it's definitely a benefit to
• 36:27
  hold Bitcoin over, you know, a company's stock.
• 36:30
  But there's always some room for for a little diversification to
• 36:33
  say the very least. Love that.
• 36:35
  So what I get from both Adam and Brandon is fuck Bitcoin and go
• 36:40
  all in on MicroStrategy and Bitcoin.
• 36:43
  Well, Opti, do you agree? Well, I mean, in hindsight,
• 36:47
  looking at MicroStrategy games, it's kind of hard to, you know,
• 36:52
  fight it. Like we were joking earlier,
• 36:55
  like, man, we're idiot. We should have just bought
• 36:56
  MicroStrategy and got all in like and, and honest, like I,
• 37:01
  you know, in Full disclosure, I, I don't actually condone that,
• 37:04
  but I have seen a lot of people kind of do that on Twitter.
• 37:06
  They're just like, I'm selling all my Bitcoin and going micro
• 37:08
  strategy. And when I saw the initial
• 37:11
  grumblings of this, I'm like, man, that's a dumb move.
• 37:13
  Like I would never do that. But you know, when you look at
• 37:16
  the Fiat games, you're like, man, maybe we're the dumb ones
• 37:18
  here, But no, I, I think what, what Adam is saying is really
• 37:23
  like hitting the nail on the head because I don't, I don't
• 37:26
  really like to trade. I don't want to trade.
• 37:28
  Even though looking again, you know, hindsight's 2020 and
• 37:31
  looking back at the micro MicroStrategy stock price,
• 37:34
  you're like, man, we should have all probably bought some
• 37:36
  MicroStrategy, but now it is feeling toppy.
• 37:39
  And I'm like, I don't know how, how much higher can this go?
• 37:41
  I don't want to buy the MicroStrategy top and sell some
• 37:44
  Bitcoin for that. And I, I'm kind of like, you
• 37:47
  know, jokingly, the 65 IQ type of person here.
• 37:51
  I just like to save money under my mattress.
• 37:53
  And to me, that is Bitcoin. And you know, as, as Adam was
• 37:56
  saying, like the guaranteed generational wealth here is
• 37:59
  Bitcoin. And so the game for me is just
• 38:01
  stack as much Bitcoin as possible.
• 38:03
  But hey, if you do have money in the Fiat system, like I think
• 38:06
  it'd be dumb not to at least get some MicroStrategy or Bitcoin.
• 38:10
  Well, exposure or merit exposure because like, what else are you
• 38:13
  going to do? You're going to leave that money
• 38:14
  in treasuries or, you know, you're going to go into NVIDIA,
• 38:17
  which I think is an even bigger bubble than any of these other
• 38:20
  stocks out there. Like I'm not convinced in the
• 38:22
  whole AI craze that we're seeing.
• 38:24
  To me that is feelinglikethe.com bubble.
• 38:27
  But hey, NVIDIA is also doing pretty well and MicroStrategy is
• 38:31
  outperforming all that. And so it you know, looking at
• 38:34
  the paper gains, you're like, man, I should have bought some.
• 38:37
  I definitely should have bought some.
• 38:40
  But now I'm like, no, I'm I'm cool, you know, stay humble
• 38:42
  stacks ads saving Bitcoin as much as possible because the the
• 38:46
  game here is like what you know, Adam and I have stole from our
• 38:49
  boy Nick can't mine is you don't stack stats for your first name.
• 38:53
  You stack it for your last name. And holding Bitcoin long term,
• 38:56
  we all know is the play. But it is very interesting that
• 39:00
  we are in this little window of time right now where there is a
• 39:04
  premium for, you know, Bitcoin well, or MicroStrategy,
• 39:07
  whoever's doing, you know, the quote UN quote infinite money
• 39:09
  glitch. Like there is a short time frame
• 39:12
  and this could be years, like this could be a decade to play
• 39:15
  out. But there is this period of time
• 39:16
  right now where there is a lot of games to to capitalize on.
• 39:20
  And hey, you know, if you are someone with money in the Fiat
• 39:24
  system, I think it's a no brainer.
• 39:26
  But I do want to pivot this a little bit, Nico, because I, I
• 39:29
  really want to emphasize, we always talk about the Overton
• 39:32
  window here. And I love seeing James Lavish
• 39:35
  be on, you know, Charles Payne on Fox News basically, you know,
• 39:39
  we, we've all heard these conversations in Bitcoin
• 39:42
  podcast. I'm sure we all love James
• 39:43
  Lavish. But for him to go on Fox News
• 39:46
  and, and essentially talk about all the things we talk about is
• 39:50
  really a testament to the idea of Bitcoin signal going
• 39:53
  mainstream. And like how big of a firestorm
• 39:57
  the micro strategy is speaking right now on Wall Street, Like
• 40:00
  everyone has to be taking or paying attention to what
• 40:03
  MicroStrategy is doing right now.
• 40:05
  And I think this is all good for Bitcoin because as Adam was
• 40:08
  saying again, like even Sailor is saying, like, no, the winning
• 40:12
  move is just buying Bitcoin. Yes, my stock is doing well, but
• 40:15
  that is the signal here. And more people are catching on
• 40:18
  to this. And we'll see who else follows
• 40:20
  suits by the end of this year and the beginning of next year
• 40:23
  that hey guys, all you have to do is just buy Bitcoin and your
• 40:27
  life gets better, you know? Your purchasing power increases
• 40:30
  and that's the signal here that's going wildfire and
• 40:32
  everyone's trying to wrap their heads around it.
• 40:35
  You know, of course, Wall Street and traders, they love to
• 40:37
  overcomplicate things. And you know, Sailor putting on
• 40:40
  a master class out there, he's like, no, guys, just buy
• 40:42
  Bitcoin. Like that's all you have to do
• 40:44
  is buy Bitcoin. But yeah, hey, if you want to
• 40:46
  buy my stock, like pump my bags too, but like all you have to do
• 40:49
  is buy Bitcoin. So it is a testament to
• 40:52
  something we've been saying on the show all year.
• 40:54
  Bitcoin is crossing that Rubicon into mainstream consciousness.
• 40:58
  And now everyone has to take Bitcoin seriously and you just
• 41:00
  love to see it. I think 2025 is going to be an
• 41:02
  incredible year for price action and let's just hope that we can
• 41:05
  ensure the freedom go up aspects of Bitcoin while we do it. 100%
• 41:10
  guys, we blew past our target. Help us now break 250 likes
• 41:16
  within the first hour of the show.
• 41:18
  We just reached 550 live viewers on YouTube and 2200 live viewers
• 41:24
  across all platforms. If you guys are enjoying the
• 41:26
  show, smash the like button, consider sharing the video
• 41:30
  really, really helps with the algo.
• 41:32
  Stay tuned. We have a ton of content left
• 41:34
  for you guys. We're going to be talking about
• 41:36
  digital IDs, the digital Euro, and of of course, the unrealized
• 41:41
  gains proposed in France. I feel like this unrealized
• 41:45
  gains thing is is going to continue to accelerate as
• 41:49
  predicted by the book The Sovereign individual.
• 41:52
  You guys know that I love that book highly recommend it Got so
• 41:56
  many things right got a couple things wrong, but I got a lot of
• 41:59
  things right. So we're going to talk about all
• 42:01
  that during the news segment and stay tuned for the culture too,
• 42:04
  because we're going to talk to Brandon and Adam O'Brien about
• 42:07
  what they're working on. All right, everybody, let's
• 42:09
  let's get to the news. We'll be right back.
• 42:12
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  Come with Opti. That I didn't say that YouTube
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  and that was a joke anyways, so let's get to today's news.
• 44:38
  Dude, I don't know what the F is going on in Europe out there for
• 44:41
  a month. And I felt it.
• 44:43
  I felt the collectivism in the air.
• 44:46
  They're just going down this path of tyranny.
• 44:49
  They're going down this path of it just never ended well.
• 44:53
  And here's I guess a a member of the parliament talking about the
• 45:00
  upcoming digital ID and the upcoming digital euro, which
• 45:05
  they renamed. It's no longer a central bank
• 45:08
  digital currency. They did a bait and switch after
• 45:10
  all the crap that we gave them on Twitter.
• 45:12
  Now it's called a digital euro. Let's check it out.
• 45:16
  I just left the room where we had the negotiations about the
• 45:21
  digital identity and I have bad news.
• 45:24
  The member States and the European Parliament came to an
• 45:27
  agreement that means that probably not far from now the
• 45:32
  digital identity will be affect in the European Union right
• 45:38
  after this agreement, Commissioner Britton said.
• 45:41
  Now we have the digital identity wallet, we have to put something
• 45:45
  in it. And what he meant was the
• 45:48
  digital Bureau, also known as the central bank digital
• 45:52
  currency. And this is a very bad
• 45:55
  development. They always promise us not to
• 45:58
  make disconnection. And even a lot of experts,
• 46:03
  privacy experts and security experts want also last week.
• 46:07
  This is a very bad idea for our privacy and our freedom.
• 46:16
  I just. Let go.
• 46:18
  It's a horrific idea. It's a terrible idea.
• 46:21
  It gives unelected bureaucrats a tremendous amount of power over
• 46:25
  your life. And there's something called
• 46:28
  soft power. So what does that mean?
• 46:30
  That means that, for example, if you know how the credit score
• 46:35
  system works in China, if you talk badly about the government,
• 46:39
  if you post certain type of media on social media, it lowers
• 46:45
  your credit score. When your or your social credit
• 46:48
  score, when your social credit score goes down, you no longer
• 46:52
  have access to the best schools, You no longer have access to
• 46:56
  loans. So the reason it's called soft
• 46:59
  power is that it's not directly coercing you to do certain
• 47:03
  things. However, you're incentivized to,
• 47:08
  you know, follow whatever the government wants you to do
• 47:11
  because if not, you are penalized in some way.
• 47:15
  And this is the danger of digital IDs and central bank
• 47:19
  digital currencies. And I mean, they're telling you
• 47:22
  they're, they're being very open about this in terms of the 15
• 47:26
  minute cities, in terms of the things that they want society to
• 47:30
  go along with. Problem is that, listen, without
• 47:35
  a coercive mean, without a coercive mechanism to get people
• 47:39
  to go along with these plans, I don't think people would
• 47:43
  willingly do it. But if you have these types of
• 47:46
  controls in place, as China has already proved, you can coerce
• 47:52
  people into doing things even if it's not direct coercion.
• 47:56
  That's why it's called soft power, which is really really
• 47:58
  interesting. Also what's happening in France
• 48:02
  is interesting as well. I don't have the English
• 48:05
  translated version of this. Adam does speak French though,
• 48:08
  but I'm not going to ask him to translate this.
• 48:11
  I know. Put me on what happened here.
• 48:21
  All right, let's do it $1.00 actual patrimon key contribute
• 48:32
  like croissants economic 1 the passive constructive non
• 48:44
  effective activity economic liquidity plasma financier
• 48:49
  corporal looks the YouTube this active numeric tip bitcoin's.
• 49:04
  Yeah, she basically just said sign up for bitcoinwell.com with
• 49:08
  promo codes simply and you're gonna get opportunities to win a
• 49:12
  million sats in the Bitcoin wishing well.
• 49:13
  That was super strange. It was basically an ad read for
• 49:16
  Bitcoin. Well.
• 49:16
  That's so crazy, man. So other than other than about
• 49:22
  promoting Bitcoin, well, Adam, what did she say?
• 49:26
  Yeah, I got no idea to be honest.
• 49:30
  All right, so so apparently, OK, so here's the community note and
• 49:36
  and all that stuff that was funny.
• 49:38
  So it says the French Senate debate proposes replacing the
• 49:42
  real estate wealth tax with an UN quote, unproductive wealth
• 49:47
  tax targeting dormant assets, unused real estate, luxury goods
• 49:52
  and crypto. This preliminary vote with only
• 49:55
  supporting senators present in the chamber is not in final
• 49:59
  legislation. Now the, the, the interesting
• 50:01
  thing about all this, ladies and gentlemen, is you know where
• 50:06
  else they proposed an unrealized tax in the United States.
• 50:11
  And the reason that I believe this is happening again, I, I
• 50:15
  really, really believe in the, in the, in the, the thesis laid
• 50:19
  out by the sovereign individual, they really laid out here, it
• 50:22
  says Reese and Mog and David, the authors basically predicted
• 50:26
  that the with the rise of this new cyberspace and consequently
• 50:30
  cyber money, it will become harder for a nation state to
• 50:34
  collect taxes from its citizens. When they say taxes, it's not
• 50:38
  just income tax, it's also inflation tax.
• 50:41
  Just keep that in mind. They compare the state to a
• 50:44
  farmer keeping cows in a field to be milked.
• 50:47
  But that quote, soon the cows will have wings.
• 50:51
  They predict that for the government to collect taxes from
• 50:54
  its citizens in this type of society, it would have to
• 50:57
  violate human rights. Even traditionally civil
• 51:01
  countries will have to resort and turn nasty.
• 51:04
  I mean that kind of explains Operation Choke .2 point O of
• 51:09
  the last 3 1/2 years. That explain explains the arrest
• 51:13
  of CZ, of Arthur Hayes, of Rodger Ver.
• 51:18
  I know he's very unpopular in the Bitcoin community of Julian
• 51:21
  Assange, of Ross Ulbricht, right?
• 51:25
  And all the while bankers like TD Bank got a record fine for
• 51:31
  record money laundering and all they got was a fine.
• 51:36
  So why is it that our industry is targeted and that industry is
• 51:40
  not targeted? Well, our industry gives you
• 51:42
  wings that that's essentially what it is.
• 51:44
  And what I mean by that is if you take self custody of your
• 51:47
  Bitcoin, to kind of tie it in with what we were talking about
• 51:51
  earlier, kind of jokingly, you can't take your MicroStrategy or
• 51:56
  your Bitcoin well stock with you, but you can take your
• 51:59
  Bitcoin, well, your Bitcoin with you if you take self custody of
• 52:04
  it. That's why Bitcoin in self
• 52:06
  custody is one of the most empowering things you can do as
• 52:09
  an individual. And as governments continue to
• 52:13
  spend recklessly because that's what they've been doing.
• 52:17
  And that is an indirect tax on their citizens more and more.
• 52:22
  And those more and more of those citizens are going to want to
• 52:25
  get up and leave. And you're seeing that with the
• 52:28
  proposed exit tax in the Netherlands.
• 52:32
  You're seeing this with, you know, this BS happening in
• 52:35
  France. Politicians, instead of looking
• 52:38
  at themselves in the mirror and saying, hey, you know, we don't
• 52:41
  have a tax collecting problem, we have a spending problem.
• 52:46
  They would rather double down on the tyranny, double down on the
• 52:50
  control rather than spend less because if they stop, if they
• 52:56
  spend less than all of a sudden and you don't get $100 million
• 53:00
  worth Elizabeth Warren's anymore because that is not even
• 53:04
  feasibly possible on a government salary.
• 53:07
  So very interesting times. Very bullish on the United
• 53:11
  States because of the recent election.
• 53:12
  It's not perfect, Orange man is not perfect, but definitely an
• 53:15
  improvement. Also very bullish about the
• 53:19
  upcoming election in Canada. The polls look very favorable
• 53:23
  and I still can't pronounce his last name, but you got Pierre
• 53:25
  Pauliva or whatever going in and seems like he's the favorite to
• 53:29
  win and he's very pro Bitcoin, all that stuff.
• 53:32
  Also bullish on the province. Where at where Adam and my
• 53:37
  brother from another mother BTC sessions is from Alberta.
• 53:41
  It's just like freedom cut. It's like the Texas of Canada,
• 53:44
  bro It's nuts. It's gnarly other than the white
• 53:48
  walkers that come out in winter. But Adam what are your thoughts
• 53:52
  on this? What is happening?
• 53:55
  Paul Lier called polyver. Thank you polyver.
• 53:58
  I I I tried. Anyways Adam what are your
• 54:02
  thoughts on this? What the F is happening in
• 54:05
  Europe? Like had they did they not learn
• 54:08
  from the last 100 year? I feel like Europe, out of all
• 54:11
  places, have just experienced some of the worst things in
• 54:16
  history and they're just like, you know what, let's try it
• 54:19
  again. Why not?
• 54:20
  Bro I don't I don't know who wants this.
• 54:23
  I don't know who is out there banging the drum pro CBDC and
• 54:27
  I'm obviously in like this Bitcoin echo chamber, but I
• 54:30
  don't understand which pocket of citizens this helps and and what
• 54:36
  the mental gymnastics are to get them there.
• 54:39
  Frankly, you know, to your last comment, you just said didn't
• 54:42
  they learn from the last 100 years?
• 54:44
  Yeah, they did and they're running the same playbook.
• 54:46
  They want to enrich themselves at the mercy of their citizens.
• 54:50
  They hate you. They do not want you to thrive.
• 54:54
  And this is how they're going to do it.
• 54:56
  This is how you maintain power. This is how you maintain wealth.
• 54:59
  This is how you transfer and continue to siphon wealth from
• 55:02
  the middle and lower class is you tax them to the Kingdom come
• 55:06
  and then tell them it's their fault that they're overspending
• 55:08
  and then and then, you know, gaslight them and give them, you
• 55:11
  know, battered wife syndrome into staying.
• 55:15
  And this is what the European Union is doing.
• 55:17
  We saw this like you talked about soft power.
• 55:19
  We saw this here in Canada, especially throughout Kovid
• 55:22
  where it was like, you know, oh, don't worry, getting the vaccine
• 55:26
  isn't, it's not illegal to not be vaccinated, but you can't go
• 55:29
  to restaurants, you can't go to gyms, you can't go to school,
• 55:31
  you can't go to hockey rinks. Like, you know, there was a
• 55:34
  bunch of these. Don't worry, it is not illegal,
• 55:38
  but you just cannot participate in society if you don't do it.
• 55:41
  In lots of cases it was you're going to lose your job.
• 55:43
  It's like, no, no, no, no, no, this is totally your choice.
• 55:46
  You just lose your job. What's the what's the big deal?
• 55:48
  It's like this, this soft power was was tried, tested and proved
• 55:53
  to be true and valid. They're going to run this
• 55:56
  playbook. This is why Bitcoin self custody
• 55:58
  is so important. This is why, you know, here in
• 56:00
  Canada, we have the highest per capita Bitcoin or rate coming
• 56:04
  out of Canada simply because of how you know bad the
• 56:08
  government's been for the last decade.
• 56:10
  I suspect that the EU is going to start producing some
• 56:13
  incredible Bitcoiners. I'm bullish on the probably like
• 56:16
  25 to 30 year trend line for the EU will be pro freedom but it's
• 56:21
  going to be a whack a pain before that man. 100% man and
• 56:26
  and again, sometimes that's what that's what needs to happen in
• 56:30
  order for people to wake up. You know, what's really
• 56:32
  interesting too is you look at the Eastern European countries,
• 56:36
  the countries that's right, communism, like they're some of
• 56:39
  the most base countries on the face of the planet, you know?
• 56:44
  So like, yeah, I mean, sometimes people just like sometimes just
• 56:49
  people have to kind of learn the hard way for for them to wake
• 56:52
  up. Brandon, I know you've been
• 56:53
  covering this as a Bitcoin content creator, this ever
• 56:57
  encroaching tyranny that's happening, happening to us.
• 57:00
  What? What's your take on this?
• 57:02
  What's your opinion? Yeah, man, I mean I it sounds.
• 57:04
  Like that? Remember, we're on YouTube.
• 57:07
  Yeah, all right, I'll make it. I'll make it snappy.
• 57:10
  But you know it, it seems like the French have just been
• 57:13
  eating, you know, some rotten croissants or somebody is shit
• 57:17
  in their you know, what is it their caviar, everything like
• 57:21
  that. I mean, it seems like the rulers
• 57:22
  are just essentially, you know, trying to to keep the power as
• 57:26
  Adam lined out. And I mean, you know, obviously
• 57:28
  we had, you know, everything that happened during COVID in
• 57:31
  Canada with the banks accounts freezing and everything like
• 57:34
  that. But you know, you, you mentioned
• 57:36
  already, you know we're, we're in a right?
• 57:39
  Path. Somewhat with, you know, with
• 57:43
  Donald Trump coming in. But at the same time, you know,
• 57:46
  we're also very close to teetering on the edge here
• 57:50
  where, you know, every time you go to a store, you're swiping
• 57:52
  your credit card or something like that.
• 57:54
  MasterCard, Visa, American Express, all these companies
• 57:57
  already know where you're spending all of your money and
• 58:00
  everything like that. And, you know, the access to
• 58:02
  your bank account is not necessarily your money.
• 58:04
  So I think more and more people, you know, have seen what has
• 58:08
  happened in the past four years and it's just accelerated the
• 58:11
  growth of a lot of people moving towards Bitcoin.
• 58:13
  So I think that that's going to continue here.
• 58:16
  Sometimes you just need to, I guess revert in in the wrong
• 58:20
  direction in order to wake some people up.
• 58:23
  And I think a lot of people, you know, sacrifice freedom for
• 58:28
  more, you know, just ease of use of things, right.
• 58:32
  So I think it's going to revert the other way.
• 58:35
  I think the French and, you know, other European countries
• 58:39
  are trying to revert, but people are going to start to to vote
• 58:42
  with their feet, whether that's, you know, move somewhere else,
• 58:44
  work in a digital economy and just continue moving that
• 58:49
  direction. So I think, you know, we saw
• 58:51
  Italy try to propose this our higher taxed on on Bitcoin and
• 58:55
  crypto to a lesser extent, and they immediately reverse that.
• 58:59
  I wouldn't be surprised if we see something like that here
• 59:02
  with the with the French as well as as many people just, you
• 59:05
  know, simply just move away or, you know, are trying to trying
• 59:09
  to get around it. So I think that's going to
• 59:11
  continue. And I think the policy makers
• 59:14
  are going to have to wake up when when people start fleeing
• 59:17
  and trying to find the most free places to live and and work and
• 59:21
  store their capital. A. 100% And that's the thesis,
• 59:24
  right? That's the thesis from the
• 59:25
  sovereign individual, right? And that overtime time, as more
• 59:29
  and more people kind of are nimble and they like go through
• 59:32
  jurisdiction and they go to the jurisdiction that treats them
• 59:35
  best, over time, that becomes a forcing function on government
• 59:40
  to see citizens rather than tax cattle.
• 59:43
  They they would, they would see them as customers instead.
• 59:46
  Instead, That's the thesis. You kind of see it on the state
• 59:49
  level here in the United States, right?
• 59:51
  Where, you know, New York and California were very hostile
• 59:55
  during the pandemic years to businesses and individual
• 59:58
  freedoms. And you saw a giant exodus of
• 1:00:01
  people coming to Texas and Florida.
• 1:00:05
  So anyways, guys, we're going to move on to the culture segment
• 1:00:09
  to talk to Brandon and Adam. Let's check it out.
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  It's going to be a great time and we hope to see you guys
• 1:02:05
  there. Anyways, I do want to give a
• 1:02:07
  very special shout out to our guest today, Adam O'Brien.
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  Thank you so much for joining us, guys.
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  Go check out bitcoinwell.com today and go check out their
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  Adam, thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:02:29
  Thanks guys. Mad love.
• 1:02:30
  Always good to be here. And remember everyone just got
• 1:02:33
  to stay sovereign, stack stats, stay sovereign.
• 1:02:35
  I'll catch you guys later. Thanks, Adam.
• 1:02:37
  Appreciate it. All right everybody, we are
• 1:02:39
  going to pivot the conversation to our special guest today,
• 1:02:42
  fellow Bitcoin content Crit. Do you want to do switching
• 1:02:45
  Opti? Thank you fellow content creator
• 1:02:49
  and guys, go definitely subscribe to his channel Green
• 1:02:53
  Candle Green. How do you How do you say it?
• 1:02:57
  It's you know, somebody on Twitter's got green candle, so I
• 1:03:00
  had to go put an IT at the end. But it's just green candle on
• 1:03:04
  YouTube just and yeah, search green candle investments.
• 1:03:07
  You'll be able to find me anywhere.
• 1:03:09
  Awesome. So talk to us a little bit about
• 1:03:11
  your channel. What's it about?
• 1:03:13
  What is the general feeling about it?
• 1:03:15
  What type of interviews do you do?
• 1:03:17
  What do you highlight? Obviously you're a Bitcoiner, so
• 1:03:21
  it's Bitcoin focused. What's your take, Brandon?
• 1:03:24
  Yeah, I'm trying to build the, I like to describe it as the
• 1:03:27
  barstool of finance and Bitcoin. So I have a lot of podcasts,
• 1:03:31
  some great guests. I interviewed Maya Parabo not
• 1:03:34
  too long ago at Adopting Bitcoin, where I saw Nico and
• 1:03:38
  Opti, but she was getting a tattoo of the Bitcoin supply
• 1:03:41
  formula. So I like to do some wild things
• 1:03:44
  there, filming a lot of, you know, vlogs behind the scenes of
• 1:03:47
  these conferences and other things like that as well.
• 1:03:51
  So yeah, man, just like to have fun with it.
• 1:03:53
  I cover macro topics from real estate to traditional finance
• 1:03:59
  all through Bitcoin. So trying to bring a little bit
• 1:04:02
  of flair to it and have some fun with it just like you guys do
• 1:04:05
  here. So yeah, thank you guys so much
• 1:04:08
  for having me. And it's, it's been a blast to,
• 1:04:10
  to come on here and, and RIP it with you guys for a little bit.
• 1:04:13
  Absolutely. So what has, you know, what have
• 1:04:17
  you learned making content over these last couple of years?
• 1:04:20
  Bitcoin has accelerated, its popularity has accelerated.
• 1:04:24
  You know, I've seen you at a lot of these conferences.
• 1:04:28
  What's your opinion? We're still so early as, as
• 1:04:32
  Michael Saylor said it, man. I mean, I think, you know, you
• 1:04:35
  go to these conferences, I've seen them grow over the years,
• 1:04:38
  but you just, you know, you still talk to your normie
• 1:04:40
  friends. I mean, I was telling my friends
• 1:04:43
  earlier this year that I thought Bitcoin would hit 100K by the
• 1:04:46
  end of the year. And I have receipts of them
• 1:04:49
  chirping me when it was like 50-60 K, saying, oh, yeah,
• 1:04:52
  Bitcoins gonna hit 100K. And then now they're starting to
• 1:04:55
  come around a little bit. But I'm still only getting, you
• 1:04:57
  know, a couple text messages here or there, you know,
• 1:05:01
  depending on the day now that bitcoins kind of floating off,
• 1:05:04
  everybody thinks it's, you know, dead, whatever they miss the
• 1:05:07
  boat. So I still think we're we're
• 1:05:09
  very early when it comes to Bitcoin and I think we're
• 1:05:13
  turning an edge here a little bit.
• 1:05:15
  But I think with, you know, nation state adoption, we've
• 1:05:18
  got, you know, more companies. We just highlighted Bitcoin.
• 1:05:21
  Well, we got Microsoft, we got micro strategy, all these big
• 1:05:24
  players coming into the game. I think it's just a matter of
• 1:05:27
  time. So congratulations to everybody
• 1:05:30
  here listening. We've beat the US, We beat, you
• 1:05:33
  know, a lot of these giant companies to finding Bitcoin.
• 1:05:36
  And, you know, I think it's just a matter of time until everybody
• 1:05:40
  finds that the orange beacon of light and flees to Bitcoin.
• 1:05:44
  I love that. I love that man.
• 1:05:46
  Also breaking news, Donald Trump reportedly picks pro crypto Paul
• 1:05:52
  Atkins for SEC chair to replace Gary Gensler.
• 1:05:57
  What that means? It's going to be an absolute
• 1:06:01
  altcoin Bitcoin extravaganza trying to be nice and inclusive
• 1:06:07
  next year. And you're going to see all
• 1:06:09
  types of things being bought and sold.
• 1:06:14
  And yeah, anyways, but you should stick to Bitcoin instead
• 1:06:19
  of trying to, you know, buy all that alternative stuff anyways.
• 1:06:24
  Opti, what's your take on this, man?
• 1:06:26
  I know that you're a fan of Brandon.
• 1:06:28
  You've watched this content. What's up?
• 1:06:30
  Yeah, well, I actually kind of just want to ask Brandon, cuz
• 1:06:33
  you are interviewing a lot of Bitcoiners and you were just
• 1:06:36
  kind of talking about normies and you know, let's give some
• 1:06:39
  alpha to the viewers here. Obviously most of the viewers
• 1:06:42
  are Bitcoiners, but kind of in a broad sense, like what do you
• 1:06:46
  think is the big idea playing out right now?
• 1:06:48
  I know you cover macro markets, like what do you see the
• 1:06:51
  normies? Obviously it's about Bitcoin,
• 1:06:54
  but like what do you think is the one take away for everyone
• 1:06:57
  that they could go out there and spread and and tell like their
• 1:07:00
  friends and family like this is what's happening and this is,
• 1:07:03
  you know, the basic mechanics of what's going on.
• 1:07:05
  So from your experience with interviewing everyone, you know,
• 1:07:08
  your macro experience, background, obviously your
• 1:07:11
  Bitcoin experience, like what do you think is the big idea
• 1:07:14
  playing out right now in the world?
• 1:07:16
  Yeah. So I think it's just the the
• 1:07:18
  initial start here where we had the ETFs being launched at the
• 1:07:22
  beginning of the year. We have, you know, nation states
• 1:07:24
  now starting to FOMO into Bitcoin.
• 1:07:27
  And I think, you know, everybody is getting more and more of
• 1:07:30
  those touch points as to, you know, what Bitcoin is.
• 1:07:34
  And then they're getting a little bit more curious and
• 1:07:36
  starting to dive into what Bitcoin is a little bit as well.
• 1:07:39
  Obviously number go up. You know, we all love to to buy
• 1:07:42
  the cheap sats, but let's face it, that's a big orange pillar
• 1:07:46
  for many people. It brings a lot of attention to
• 1:07:49
  it. But you know, with all these
• 1:07:51
  products and services coming along, I interview a lot of
• 1:07:54
  people that are hedge fund kind of traditional, you know,
• 1:07:57
  investors maybe real estate or anything.
• 1:08:00
  They understand the hard assets, but they were very skeptical on
• 1:08:04
  Bitcoin at first. I actually received my first
• 1:08:07
  text messages from traditional finance Bros now that are all
• 1:08:11
  into Bitcoin. So I think, you know, they're
• 1:08:13
  understanding that this is bringing a lot of alpha and it's
• 1:08:17
  just the first step, right? Whether they're buying in the
• 1:08:19
  ETF or they're buying, you know, micro strategy or a Bitcoin well
• 1:08:23
  stock or something like that to get some exposure.
• 1:08:26
  They're now starting to do research into what Bitcoin is in
• 1:08:29
  the freedom technology of Bitcoin.
• 1:08:32
  So I think like Michael Saylor said, we're still very early.
• 1:08:36
  But I think the overall thesis of Bitcoin, you know, first
• 1:08:39
  starting off as a inflation hedge or something to kind of
• 1:08:44
  keep your wealth, earn, you know, properly restore your time
• 1:08:47
  is playing out now. And I think like as we go along,
• 1:08:51
  this is going to get more and more to, you know, getting to a
• 1:08:53
  hyperbychronized world. And I think, you know, we're
• 1:08:56
  we're still very early. And this is something that is
• 1:09:00
  that is going to make us all look very smart here at the end.
• 1:09:02
  But yeah, I mean, I like this this comment here that
• 1:09:05
  Thanksgiving dinner was a little bit more pleasant for us this
• 1:09:08
  this time around opposed to last year.
• 1:09:10
  So I think that's going to keep continuing.
• 1:09:12
  And I think 2025 is going to be a very, very big year for us as
• 1:09:17
  bitcoiners. Beautiful, Beautiful.
• 1:09:19
  Yeah, I completely agree. It's incredibly exciting.
• 1:09:22
  I think it's going to be an explosive year.
• 1:09:24
  I think people still have a little bit of PTSD from the last
• 1:09:29
  cycle of 2021, which I believe was a cut short a little bit.
• 1:09:33
  It looks like maybe I'm speaking too soon, but 2025 surely sure
• 1:09:39
  does remind me of that 20/16/2017 type of vibe.
• 1:09:44
  We don't know. We don't know the future.
• 1:09:45
  I'm speculating, but we shall see.
• 1:09:48
  Opti, any thoughts? Yeah, I mean, I again, I'm, I
• 1:09:51
  want to pick Brandon's Brandon's mind here because we do cover a
• 1:09:55
  lot of macro stuff here and one of the biggest trends and we
• 1:09:57
  actually got that tweet yesterday from Trump about BRICS
• 1:10:00
  nations, you know, leaving the dollar.
• 1:10:02
  So what's your thoughts on the idea of countries trying to move
• 1:10:05
  away from, you know, US bonds and and that trend going on
• 1:10:09
  right now? And obviously the mistake of
• 1:10:11
  them not going to Bitcoin, but we saw a trend all of this year
• 1:10:14
  of, of countries moving away from the dollar, at least
• 1:10:17
  posturing that they're moving away from the dollar now I they
• 1:10:20
  might be getting threatened and so that might change.
• 1:10:23
  So what's your thoughts on all that stuff working out right
• 1:10:26
  now? Yeah, so the global economy has
• 1:10:29
  all been kind of intertwined. And the US has always been kind
• 1:10:32
  of I, I in a sense, like Donald Trump has realized that we've
• 1:10:35
  been getting screwed here in the US with a lot of our foreign
• 1:10:38
  adversaries and then been slowly inching away from the dollar.
• 1:10:41
  I mean, we've seen massive amounts inflation.
• 1:10:43
  Everybody listening here knows that inflation is not under
• 1:10:47
  wraps in the USI mean, one of my favorite websites is
• 1:10:50
  govflation.com, where you can see how they used to calculate
• 1:10:53
  the CPI, compared it to how they're presenting it right now.
• 1:10:57
  And I believe in August it was over 10% still when, you know,
• 1:11:01
  the CPI being reported was 2.5. So everybody globally is
• 1:11:04
  realizing like, hey, there's massive amounts of money
• 1:11:07
  printing that happened over these past couple years.
• 1:11:09
  Yeah, that's a great website. So if you Scroll down there a
• 1:11:12
  little bit, you can see the graph of CPI and just see how
• 1:11:16
  they've been manipulating it. So you can see towards the end
• 1:11:19
  that it's still very high over that 10% and we peaked nearly at
• 1:11:24
  20%. So I think countries around the
• 1:11:27
  globe are are realizing this and a lot of them are not benefiting
• 1:11:31
  from the devaluing of the dollar.
• 1:11:34
  And so that's why the BRICS nations have started to move
• 1:11:37
  away. Donald Trump's trying to bring
• 1:11:39
  the strength back to the dollar, which I do appreciate.
• 1:11:42
  But on the flip side of it, he's also going to want to lower
• 1:11:45
  interest rates, which is another form of QE.
• 1:11:48
  He's, you know, when he was president in 2016 to 2020, we
• 1:11:51
  had interest rates at near 0. That's why we saw a lot of, you
• 1:11:54
  know, these crypto tokens that, you know, Nikko was alluding to
• 1:11:58
  earlier pop up left and right. You know, we saw a lot of
• 1:12:01
  countries, you know, our companies pop up from zero to
• 1:12:05
  multi billion dollar evaluations.
• 1:12:07
  So I think there needs to be a little bit cost of capital and
• 1:12:11
  hopefully, you know, whoever is leading the Fed will not, you
• 1:12:15
  know, get us down to that 0% interest rate.
• 1:12:17
  But I think, you know, overall countries have kind of felt this
• 1:12:21
  for the past four years. The the inflation is not under
• 1:12:24
  wraps. And I think Trump is trying to
• 1:12:26
  bring the strength back into the dollar.
• 1:12:28
  Now. We'll see how these next four
• 1:12:30
  years go. Hopefully, you know, it's not
• 1:12:33
  crypto bonanza here from 24 to to 2028, but I think that it's
• 1:12:41
  all signs that are looking to a positive for the US and for the
• 1:12:47
  dollar, which in turn would I think help Bitcoin along the
• 1:12:51
  way. Kind of give it some time to
• 1:12:54
  develop a lot of you know, more technology and everything like
• 1:12:58
  that to get us closer to a hyper bitcoinized world without
• 1:13:01
  crashing and burning the dollar right away, right,
• 1:13:04
  Accelerationist that I know some are some are here probably
• 1:13:08
  listening, but the accelerationist want us to go
• 1:13:10
  the other way. I think that would just be bad
• 1:13:11
  for everybody. So hopefully it'll prolong that.
• 1:13:15
  Yeah, OK. And and hey, we're, we're about
• 1:13:17
  to get into 2025, so I don't want you to speculate too much,
• 1:13:22
  but you know, you've been in Bitcoin for a couple years,
• 1:13:24
  you're making Bitcoin content, you're talking to some of the
• 1:13:27
  smartest Bitcoiners every single day and just looking at the
• 1:13:30
  landscape for Bitcoin because, you know, Nico and I, we have
• 1:13:33
  these conversations all the time on the show as well.
• 1:13:35
  But from another content creators vantage point, is this
• 1:13:38
  time different? Because I think that is the real
• 1:13:41
  question that we're all asking ourselves.
• 1:13:42
  Is this time different? Are we entering maybe a new
• 1:13:46
  cycle or new era in Bitcoin? So what's your thoughts on that,
• 1:13:49
  Brandon? I think without a doubt, you
• 1:13:52
  know, Nico said he felt like 2021 got cut kind of short.
• 1:13:56
  And I and I agree with that on the last cycle because you know,
• 1:14:00
  last cycle we had FTX, we had Celsius, we had block fly, a lot
• 1:14:04
  of these bad players issuing out paper Bitcoin.
• 1:14:07
  Now, I'm not condoning the ETFs to go and buy them.
• 1:14:10
  They're a little bit more regulated than, you know, the
• 1:14:13
  free and open market that was, you know, FTX and and Block Fi
• 1:14:18
  and everything like that. So, you know, they'll hopefully
• 1:14:21
  not be issuing as much paper Bitcoin, which I think kind of
• 1:14:24
  suppressed the price last time. So I think with the tops going
• 1:14:27
  to blow off, we have a lot of FOMO money sitting on the
• 1:14:30
  sidelines here from traditional finance, billions of dollars
• 1:14:33
  literally being flowed into these ETF products weekly.
• 1:14:36
  And now we have the nation state FOMO kind of coming along.
• 1:14:39
  I mean, you guys have highlighted here on the show,
• 1:14:42
  you know, we talked about Canada, we got the US potential
• 1:14:45
  state level at the US too, talking about strategic reserves
• 1:14:49
  for individual states. Not only that, but also
• 1:14:51
  federally, we've got a lot of countries flipping the script on
• 1:14:54
  it. We got Brazil the other day
• 1:14:56
  announcing it. We got a presidential candidate
• 1:14:58
  of Poland. We've got China reversing it,
• 1:15:02
  you know, reversing their stance on Bitcoin and crypto.
• 1:15:04
  So I think it's nation state FOMO, it's traditional financial
• 1:15:09
  money and and retail on top of all that where previous cycles
• 1:15:13
  was just really retail. So now we're seeing so much more
• 1:15:16
  money being flowed into Bitcoin and I think the top's going to
• 1:15:20
  blow off. I mean, I'm extremely bullish
• 1:15:22
  going into next year. And I don't know sitting here
• 1:15:25
  how you could possibly not be, to be honest with you.
• 1:15:28
  Well, wait, wait, could we get a price prediction here?
• 1:15:31
  I know, I know. We try not to do those even
• 1:15:34
  though we do them. So Brandon, you know, let's
• 1:15:37
  let's end the show with with a just a spicy price prediction.
• 1:15:41
  Where do you think we're going this cycle?
• 1:15:43
  What are you seeing and like what are the metrics that you're
• 1:15:45
  watching? Yeah, 100%.
• 1:15:47
  So I mean, I think at a minimum, I think the floor for next year
• 1:15:51
  is at 250 K at the very least. Now with that, I think we can
• 1:15:57
  also see it skyrocketing up to 850, maybe even touching close
• 1:16:02
  to a million a coin with the nation state FOMO.
• 1:16:05
  So I think it'll be absolutely crazy.
• 1:16:08
  I mean, last cycle we had, you know, money printing that raised
• 1:16:12
  it up a bunch. But on this cycle we'll have
• 1:16:15
  interest rates lowering and the possibility of money printing
• 1:16:19
  that will have to be more than last time.
• 1:16:21
  I mean, imagine all of that QE being dumped into Bitcoin, I
• 1:16:24
  mean 2:50 at a minimum. And then maybe we're pushing on
• 1:16:28
  Amelia Coin and you know, we'll be all dancing on our our
• 1:16:31
  private jets and yachts and everything like that next year,
• 1:16:34
  man. 11 Last question from from me, and then Niko can chime in.
• 1:16:39
  So yeah, someone take the soundboard away from Niko.
• 1:16:42
  Geez, we have the meme that's been going around.
• 1:16:47
  Excuse me. And I know a lot of other
• 1:16:48
  sports. All right, got to mute you got
• 1:16:51
  to mute you. OK, so we have the meme right
• 1:16:54
  now going around in the Bitcoin space a lot of like diminishing
• 1:16:57
  returns and we've talked about that constantly.
• 1:17:00
  And also a lot of Bitcoiners do have PTSD from 2021 cycle, but
• 1:17:05
  add that with, do you think maybe with all of the influx
• 1:17:11
  capital that we're seeing, it might not necessarily be
• 1:17:14
  diminishing returns, but I think it might dampen the volatility
• 1:17:18
  on the downside. So one, are you believing in the
• 1:17:22
  diminishing returns thesis and do you still think that we might
• 1:17:27
  be seeing, you know, 7080% drawdowns in this next cycle?
• 1:17:30
  Like what, what's your thinking on the volatility of the Bitcoin
• 1:17:34
  price? Because I've, you know, Full
• 1:17:35
  disclosure, I'm kind of been like Niko's been diminishing
• 1:17:38
  returns all year and I'm like, no, you're a bear now.
• 1:17:41
  I'm kind of flipping it. And I, I think what we might be
• 1:17:44
  seeing is the volatility is going to get dampen on, on the
• 1:17:47
  downside. And I think that would be super
• 1:17:50
  bullish for the Bitcoin price. Yeah.
• 1:17:53
  So I think it's all about like user behavior at this point.
• 1:17:56
  So I mean, I think that when nation states start to come in,
• 1:18:00
  that will help with the diminishing returns.
• 1:18:02
  But on the flip side of it, the traditional finance arm, I don't
• 1:18:05
  necessarily think those guys are going to be the diamond hand
• 1:18:08
  Bros, you know, really holding on to Bitcoin.
• 1:18:10
  So I think that, you know, nation state stacking is very
• 1:18:14
  bullish for what you guys are saying.
• 1:18:16
  But on the flip side of it, the traditional finance is not.
• 1:18:19
  So I mean, I think that with the more money, any printing that
• 1:18:22
  we're getting, the interest rates lowering, we'll still have
• 1:18:25
  the volatility here. And I don't think this is going
• 1:18:27
  to be the last super cycle unfortunately, because we're
• 1:18:30
  still in a very Fiat based world, right?
• 1:18:32
  I mean, we lined out Trump, you know, trying to strengthen the
• 1:18:35
  dollar and I think he's going to prolong us from getting to maybe
• 1:18:39
  a hyper bitcoinized world, which I think is in in turn a benefit,
• 1:18:43
  right? Everything's not crashing and
• 1:18:44
  burning and, you know, Bitcoin taking off and you know, then we
• 1:18:48
  can't even buy eggs or anything like that.
• 1:18:50
  So I think, you know, we're still gonna have those, those
• 1:18:54
  waves and we're still gonna have to ride the ups and downs,
• 1:18:57
  unfortunately. And but but I mean, it'll also
• 1:19:00
  be more of a stacking opportunity.
• 1:19:02
  And I think it'll bring in more Bitcoin bulls that will, you
• 1:19:06
  know, develop the the huddle mentality and start to, you
• 1:19:09
  know, stack more and more coins. I mean, and there's gonna be
• 1:19:12
  more Michael Saylors that come along as well on this cycle too.
• 1:19:15
  So you know, I think with every Bitcoin bear, there's probably 2
• 1:19:19
  bulls that come in at the very least, right?
• 1:19:22
  I mean, we've seen option products start to come in as
• 1:19:25
  well. I don't know if you guys have
• 1:19:27
  talked about that on the show, but I mean, I think there's like
• 1:19:29
  4 buys for every sale on the on the options or four puts for
• 1:19:33
  every call. So you know, I think that, you
• 1:19:37
  know, more and more people are coming in and there's going to
• 1:19:39
  be more bulls, but there's still the bears, the skeptics out
• 1:19:42
  there. I don't know if we're going to
• 1:19:43
  fully convince them all just yet because I mean, even now we see
• 1:19:47
  the run up from 60 to 95 to 99 ish K and we're floating, you
• 1:19:52
  know, the 99 to 95 ish K right now and we still haven't cracked
• 1:19:56
  that 100 and. We got people who are.
• 1:19:57
  Refusing to buy in right now because they think they've.
• 1:20:00
  Missed the boat. So I think it's just, you know,
• 1:20:03
  it'll bring in more, more bulls. But we still got some some bears
• 1:20:08
  that are going to learn the lesson here soon enough.
• 1:20:10
  But maybe not all of them come in this cycle. 100% And I also
• 1:20:14
  do want to give like I like. So for example, Senor Gringo,
• 1:20:18
  Papi says, I say 100 to 150 K to be realistic.
• 1:20:23
  And then SAT wise janks, it says honestly, I'm with PAPI 140 to
• 1:20:28
  170 K, especially if we don't close the CME gap AT77K.
• 1:20:33
  If not, that's our next bottom target.
• 1:20:35
  OK, here's the thing. That is what I'm hearing from
• 1:20:39
  everybody, right? The the thing with Bitcoin is
• 1:20:43
  that it does the exact opposite of what everyone thinks.
• 1:20:47
  So we're either going to the low side, which means we peaked
• 1:20:51
  already and we're just in it for a very long drawn out bear
• 1:20:55
  market. I don't believe that's the case
• 1:20:58
  or we are going to go a lot higher because the general
• 1:21:02
  consensus on Bitcoin Twitter is what you guys are saying
• 1:21:06
  150K200K. That's what I'm seeing from
• 1:21:10
  everybody. If history is a teacher every
• 1:21:15
  single time Bitcoin does the exact opposite of what the
• 1:21:19
  general consensus is in terms of price.
• 1:21:23
  So the reason you guys are saying those price targets is
• 1:21:27
  because of 20/21/2021 everyone and their mother thought 100K
• 1:21:33
  guaranteed. We peaked at 69 K.
• 1:21:36
  It was a huge let down. However it was the exact
• 1:21:39
  opposite of what everyone anticipated.
• 1:21:42
  What I'm seeing this time around is that same consensus, but to
• 1:21:47
  the to the downside. So again, what happens is if
• 1:21:52
  most people believe that bitcoins peaking AT150K200K,
• 1:21:57
  they're going to sell. And what's going to happen is
• 1:22:00
  Bitcoin goes to 500 K and you're going to be like, oh, and you're
• 1:22:05
  going to buy back in at 300 because you're going to think
• 1:22:08
  it's going to go get run forever and then it's going to crash and
• 1:22:12
  you're going to get wrecked. This is what happens every
• 1:22:15
  single time. Samson Mao posted a clip of our
• 1:22:20
  interview when he came on the show and he essentially coins
• 1:22:25
  the term Bitcoin takes the path of maximum pain.
• 1:22:32
  Maximum pain, right? So if you're anticipating a
• 1:22:37
  price target, if you are, you know, saying it for the Bitcoin
• 1:22:42
  does the exact effing opposite. Always, always the opposite,
• 1:22:47
  which is why it's 99% of the time better idea.
• 1:22:51
  Stay humble stack stats stay solvent planned for the long
• 1:22:55
  term. Should have bought
• 1:22:56
  MicroStrategy. Oops next time.
• 1:22:59
  But anyways guys, this was simply Bitcoin live for December
• 1:23:03
  3rd, 2024. I'm your host Nico is my
• 1:23:07
  legendary Co host Optimus Fields and our special guest today
• 1:23:11
  Brandon from green candle. Go check out his YouTube channel
• 1:23:16
  and his Twitter for some amazing Bitcoin content.
• 1:23:20
  We'll see you guys on the next one.
• 1:23:23
  Is brought to you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only
• 1:23:26
  platform on a mission to enable financial independence.