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Brain Health and Trauma with Heidi Crockett · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Trauma Theverist Podcast Plus listeners can listen to episodes early
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Speaker 1: going to Apple Podcasts, searching for the Trauma Theverist podcast
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Speaker 1: and signing up today. Welcome to the Trauma neverst Podcast,
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Speaker 1: a show about the incredible people dedicated to helping those
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Speaker 1: who experienced trauma. My name is got macpherson, and my
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Speaker 1: mission is to raise awareness of trauma and to inspire
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Speaker 1: each of us to help those around us.
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Speaker 2: You ready, I'm ready?
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Speaker 1: All right, Heidi? So five four, three, two and one,
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Speaker 1: our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to
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Speaker 1: have us my guests today. Heidi Crockett, Heidi, welcome.
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Speaker 2: Thanks Guy.
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Speaker 1: Heidi is a license psychotherapist, interpersonal neurobiology professor, and clinical
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Speaker 1: supervisor specializing in trauma and the relational nature of the brain.
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Speaker 1: She has certifications in Semantic experiencing for trauma treatment and
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Speaker 1: from the American Association of Educators, Counselors and Therapists for
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Speaker 1: Sexual health Expertise. All right, Heidi, before we go into
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Speaker 1: your share with the listeners, where you're from originally and
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Speaker 1: where you are currently.
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Speaker 3: So originally from Tulsa, Oklahoma, I was raised by my
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Speaker 3: grandparents there and I reside in Tampa, Florida.
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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right, so interesting background. You're like,
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Speaker 1: you're in it, you're teaching your professor. How did this
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Speaker 1: start for you? So?
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Speaker 3: I would say my beginnings was back pain in college.
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Speaker 3: That was my beginnings. So I got a degree in
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Speaker 3: liberal arts school. And I didn't know what I wanted
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Speaker 3: to be when I grew up, but I had a
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Speaker 3: back issue. And so what ended up happening was I
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Speaker 3: I went to massage therapy school. I think I think
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Speaker 3: school was too much thinking for me and I wanted
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Speaker 3: to get more in the body. So yeah, so that
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Speaker 3: was where I started. It started with becoming a massage therapist.
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Speaker 1: So what what was your back thing?
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Speaker 2: So it was congenital because I have a back thing.
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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you're in the camp, I would say, you're
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Speaker 2: in the camp.
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Speaker 3: I'm actually using a standing chair called lean right, which
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Speaker 3: is really awesome.
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Speaker 2: Side comment. Yeah, So.
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Speaker 1: What was your back thing?
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Speaker 3: So it was congenital? I didn't it was it was
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Speaker 3: a rare condition. I had a rare version of a
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Speaker 3: rare condition that didn't get diagnosed for seventeen years.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have a whole.
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Speaker 3: It's like this, it's like my little like buddy, you know,
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Speaker 3: other people have like a baby, Like.
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Speaker 2: My back is like my baby.
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Speaker 1: Is it like structural?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, what happens is where the lumbers buying meets the akram,
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Speaker 3: the transitional vertebrae is a little different.
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Speaker 1: Wow. Wow Okay, So this this back thing kind of
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Speaker 1: moved you into massage massage school.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I was kind of ironic when I
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Speaker 3: think back, I was like, I don't really know what
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Speaker 3: I was thinking at the time, but I was in
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Speaker 3: my early twenties and I had the problem for two
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Speaker 3: years and then I was able to kind of heal
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Speaker 3: it at the time and then I didn't know. I
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Speaker 3: didn't know back then, but it was progressive. So then
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Speaker 3: it reappeared well yeah, about ten years later. So it's
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Speaker 3: been something that's been with me and has caused me to,
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Speaker 3: you know, think about healing and health. So I would
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Speaker 3: say my beginnings as a therapist were more body oriented,
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Speaker 3: and then I became a psychotherapist. Yeah, and then I
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Speaker 3: got training and body oriented psychotherapy because of my background.
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Speaker 1: So talk about the transition or the evolution from or
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Speaker 1: into psychotherapy. What was that inspiration?
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Speaker 3: So What happened was I got a certification as a
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Speaker 3: health coach, and I started seeing doing health coaching with people.
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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, like I like this.
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Speaker 3: Uh, And then I decided to go back to get
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Speaker 3: my master's degree. Like in my thirties, Okay, why you know,
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Speaker 3: I think I was doing body work on people and
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Speaker 3: I was giving people like a satisfying experience in that hour,
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Speaker 3: but I wanted to do something like deeper and longer
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Speaker 3: lasting that I felt like the bo I mean. And
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Speaker 3: it's not to say massage therapists are amazing so and
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Speaker 3: the work they do is really incredible and can be
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Speaker 3: life changing. But yeah, when you work with the mind
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Speaker 3: and you get people to understand something right, then they
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Speaker 3: can have a different relationship with reality for the rest
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Speaker 3: of their life potentially.
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Speaker 1: So you go into psychotherapy, you become a therapist. How
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Speaker 1: do things evolve such that you because you kind of
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Speaker 1: specialize in what brain talk to us about How that
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Speaker 1: specialization and interest came about.
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Speaker 3: So I learned about interpersonal neurobiology in grad school, and
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Speaker 3: I was hooked the minute I heard about it because
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Speaker 3: it integrated the body and the mind, but in a
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Speaker 3: way that was backed by science. So I've been interested
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Speaker 3: in it since I learned about it, like in twenty ten,
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Speaker 3: and I started teaching about it. I've been teaching for
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Speaker 3: about ten years because I was so passionate about it.
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Speaker 2: So that was kind of the evolution.
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Speaker 1: Okay, it's funny, you're just like skipping over these amazing things.
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Speaker 1: So it's interesting to hear you say like school or
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Speaker 1: college was like too much thinking, and yet here you
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Speaker 1: are specializing in neurobiology. I mean, obviously you're a thinker,
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Speaker 1: but what about neurobiology at you? What what about it?
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Speaker 3: I felt like it had clear explanations for the body
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Speaker 3: and even like I have training and somatic experiencing and
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Speaker 3: they'll talk about being undercoupled or overcoupled or What I
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Speaker 3: liked about interpersonal neurobiology is everything had a definition in it,
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Speaker 3: like whether like the definition of the mind, the definition
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Speaker 3: of attachment. So I felt like it was tangible and
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Speaker 3: touchable like the body.
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Speaker 1: So define for our listeners interpersonal neurobiology.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: So it's a framework that was created by Dan Siegel,
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Speaker 3: and it looks at if you think of a triangle,
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Speaker 3: which is like the mind and the brain and relationships
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Speaker 3: like a triangle which is a steering wheel going down
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Speaker 3: a river. It looks at the intersection of those three
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Speaker 3: and how once you come to understand the neuroscience, those
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Speaker 3: things are super interrelated. So it's a framework where you're
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Speaker 3: exploring the mind and the brain and relationships. So just
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Speaker 3: to be clear, so it's not confusing, relationships are in
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Speaker 3: the outside world and the brain is in the inside world,
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Speaker 3: and the mind is the thing that links the two.
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Speaker 3: That's more abstract.
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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so you start studying this, what specifically, how
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Speaker 1: did you get your education in this specifically?
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say I've just been taking workshops studying
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Speaker 3: it the whole ever since reading every book. I have
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Speaker 3: the developing mind, I have the matter with things right
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Speaker 3: here to show you so. And because my back injury
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Speaker 3: and my inability, my world got small because of my
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Speaker 3: back pain. There's actually a period of time when I
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Speaker 3: couldn't work or do much, so it afforded me the
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Speaker 3: opportunity to do a lot of studying and reading. So
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Speaker 3: it's I would say it's more than mostly personal and
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Speaker 3: then workshops.
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Speaker 1: Mm hmm. What do you think A lot of us
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Speaker 1: and a lot of people in general, and more specifically,
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Speaker 1: a lot of therapists maybe don't really get about how
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Speaker 1: integral interpersonal mora biology is.
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Speaker 3: I think, I think what's really popular these days are
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Speaker 3: more like body based therapies like hakomi or sensory motor
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Speaker 3: somatic experiencing, and I think that they are actually teaching
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Speaker 3: in our personal nerrobi biology principles.
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Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 3: But but ipm B just so we don't is it's
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Speaker 3: it's just not as well known. So I would say
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Speaker 3: the main thing that it can that it can teach
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Speaker 3: therapists or lay people is like Dan Singgle created a
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Speaker 3: definition of the mind for example, like the mind is
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Speaker 3: a process that regulates energy and information flow. So there's
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Speaker 3: a way with the framework we can use the language
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Speaker 3: to with pinpoint accuracy, to like help our clients change
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Speaker 3: and grow, rather than sometimes you could say, like, oh,
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Speaker 3: you know, become aware of your mind or meditate, but
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Speaker 3: when you say that to your client as a therapist,
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Speaker 3: the client may not know what you mean by the words.
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Speaker 1: Right, all right, So let's dial in here. So give
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Speaker 1: me an example. I'm going to kind of put you
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Speaker 1: on the spot here of how you might work with
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Speaker 1: a client, how you might integrate these principles and elements.
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Speaker 3: So the main thing over time that I've developed is
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Speaker 3: something called kind voice, because I feel like the things.
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Speaker 2: That wire up the brain right are.
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Speaker 3: Coregulation, which is that's the relational nature of the brand
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Speaker 3: of the mind, and then uh being regulated inside and
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Speaker 3: you know, that's the internal nature of the mind. So
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Speaker 3: kind voice is like an external technique manifestation of that.
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Speaker 3: And what it is is, uh, we look at what's happening.
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Speaker 2: Do do do you know, like the music ball do
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Speaker 2: do Do Do do do do do do do do?
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Speaker 3: Like the client's talking, and I'll take notes as they're talking.
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Speaker 2: I'll be with them.
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Speaker 3: They'll be talking for like three minutes, and then i'll
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Speaker 3: have them pause, and then we'll do something called kind voice,
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Speaker 3: and I'll say my kind as long as they're okay
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Speaker 3: with the word kind. Sometimes we can call my balanced
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Speaker 3: voice or my wise voice. If they don't like the
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Speaker 3: word kind, that's a side comment. But I'll say, you know,
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Speaker 3: my kind voice says, it was really hard to get here.
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Speaker 3: I almost got in a car accident. So I'll repeat
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Speaker 3: back what I heard them say, and then and then
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Speaker 3: they'll repeat back what I said. You know, my kind
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Speaker 3: voice says it was really hard to get here, and
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Speaker 3: she's proud of me for being here, and she sees
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Speaker 3: that what I want to work on during this session
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Speaker 3: is what happened to me when I was five years old,
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Speaker 3: and we're about to start doing that in the next
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Speaker 3: two minutes. Okay, so we start with that. It's just
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Speaker 3: an example one way we might start. And so I'm
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Speaker 3: I'm with the client. I'm giving them whatever they want
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Speaker 3: to get out of the session, but I'm getting them
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Speaker 3: out of their left hemisphere, because sometimes when therapists talk,
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Speaker 3: I call it the left hemisphere mafia. Sometimes it's like
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Speaker 3: left hemisphere mafia to the left hemisphere in mafia. And
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Speaker 3: I'm getting them to go back, go into the right
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Speaker 3: hemisphere a bit more with the with the pausing and
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Speaker 3: the kind voice, and then we go back to whatever
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Speaker 3: it is they want to work on. So that's just
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Speaker 3: an example how I work, and I can I can
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Speaker 3: explain more how that relates to in our personal neurobiology
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Speaker 3: if you want.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, well what is the Okay, You're getting them
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Speaker 1: out of the left brain, yeah, why.
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Speaker 2: Because it's one step removed.
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Speaker 3: So if anyone's familiar with Ian McGilchrist work about the
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Speaker 3: two hemispheres. He has a book called The Master and
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Speaker 3: his Emissary, and the right hemisphere is the master and
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Speaker 3: the emissary is the left hemisphere. And the idea with
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Speaker 3: optimal brain health is you're in the right hemisphere, you
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Speaker 3: go over to the left, and optimally you go back
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Speaker 3: to the right for good brain health, like when you're
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Speaker 3: on a vacation, like when you're having the most incredible
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Speaker 3: moment of your life, like you're not writing a postcard.
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Speaker 3: So okay, so being in the left hemisphere is like
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Speaker 3: writing postcards. But let me correct this a bit. A
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Speaker 3: person's narrative, which is stories, which is what you're all about,
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Speaker 3: is super important, and autobiographical memory is more in the
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Speaker 3: right hemisphere, so it's not all just one thing or another.
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Speaker 3: But what can happen as the client is talking to
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Speaker 3: you is they get lost too much in the in
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Speaker 3: the left hemisphere function. So you're just trying to integrate
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Speaker 3: between the left and the right.
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Speaker 2: Wow.
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Speaker 1: Wow, okay, so you're doing this, and how do things evolve? Generally?
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Speaker 1: Speak for you? Yes, everyone's different and everything all that stuff. Yeah,
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Speaker 1: but how are you? How are you working? How are
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Speaker 1: things unfolding for you?
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Speaker 3: I think what the main thing that starts to happen
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Speaker 3: with clients is they learn how to dialogue internally in
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Speaker 3: a different way, which I call electric fuel.
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Speaker 2: Again, all the terms.
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Speaker 3: I use come from specific things that I can define,
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Speaker 3: but electric fuel is, uh, it's from compassion research. It's
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Speaker 3: called a helpful safety strategy in shame research. But electric
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Speaker 3: fuel is basically the wizard brain, which is your prefrontal
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Speaker 3: cortex calming you down.
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Speaker 2: Uh, you want.
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Speaker 3: So they what happens with a lot of people is
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Speaker 3: they are running on I call it diesel fuel, Okay,
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Speaker 3: And that's called a harmful safety strategy in the shame research.
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Speaker 3: And what they're doing is they're criticizing themselves. And this
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Speaker 3: is the thing that really changes things for my clients
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Speaker 3: a lot. And when I teach is when people realize
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Speaker 3: that they're criticizing themselves for a reason that brain region
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Speaker 3: is running. They're running on diesel fuel because it unconsciously
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Speaker 3: calms them down. So when I'm working with people and
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Speaker 3: I start, I basically start to train their system that
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Speaker 3: you're always like your left leg and the right leg,
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Speaker 3: you're always going between diesel and electric fuel. You're always
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Speaker 3: going between the left and the right hemisphere, but teaching
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Speaker 3: them like, hey, electric fuel is another way to calm
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Speaker 3: yourself down instead of diesel fuel. Is the general progression
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Speaker 3: of what happens as I'm working with clients.
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Speaker 1: Wow, So in a way, you're kind of cultivating their
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Speaker 1: aware and helping them cultivate their w awareness about what's
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Speaker 1: going on, which is in and of itself very powerful.
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Speaker 1: And how are you integrating this with somatic work or
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Speaker 1: are you I'm assuming you are.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I would say it's in a way, it's
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Speaker 3: all somatic work, you know. So if I'm in my
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Speaker 3: left hemisphere, that is somatic. So one of the things
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Speaker 3: I am passionate about is educating. I feel like sometimes
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Speaker 3: we put people in these boxes, but it's not. But
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Speaker 3: so what I would say is what I'm doing is
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Speaker 3: I'm helping people be more present, which is in their
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Speaker 3: prefrontal cortex and their wizard brain, and I'm helping them
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Speaker 3: be more in their right hemisphere where attachment longings come
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Speaker 3: out of that. And I would say that would be
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Speaker 3: what body based therapists would say. I think what I
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Speaker 3: just said about onboarding your wizard brain and being in
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Speaker 3: your right hemisphere, I would say that's the same thing
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Speaker 3: as as asking a person to be aware of their
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Speaker 3: body sensations. That's like the right hemisphere. I'm just using
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Speaker 3: like a neurobiology language instead of a body based language.
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Speaker 1: When someone to even do this type of work, I'm
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Speaker 1: assuming a certain nervous system regulation has to be present.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, right.
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Speaker 3: Yes, So I mean I have something called three levels
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Speaker 3: of kind voice. And there is something in self compassion
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Speaker 3: research called backdraft, which is like when you start introducing electric.
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Speaker 2: Fuel, that the part of your brain that's running.
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Speaker 3: On diesel fuel is like no, no, no, no no,
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Speaker 3: like we're not gonna, We're not gonna, We're not going
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Speaker 3: to run on electric fuel. So there are certain people
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Speaker 3: who they won't do. They can't manage what happens when
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Speaker 3: you start to introduce self compassion techniques.
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Speaker 1: Because why yeah.
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Speaker 3: Number one, I think it's literally threatening to the brain.
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Speaker 3: The brain is like familiar, it's running on a certain fuel.
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Speaker 3: And because the kindness is registering as a thread.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, because that in and of itself could be traumatic exactly.
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Speaker 3: And so and so what you're doing with the person
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Speaker 3: is I would kind voice it. My kind voice says, mmm,
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Speaker 3: Heidi's telling me that there's this thing called kind voice.
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Speaker 2: That would make my brain wire up better.
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Speaker 3: But it's not feeling safe right now, I'm not really
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Speaker 3: sure I want to do the technique. So we would
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Speaker 3: kind voice just whatever's happening in their awareness, and then
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Speaker 3: we would stop. So a lot of what I'm doing
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Speaker 3: is slowing down, yeah, and having them being aware and
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Speaker 3: then check in and just like, what's happening with the
17:52
Speaker 3: thinking system, what's happening with the thinking system.
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Speaker 1: Well, so that's really interesting. It reminded me of one
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Speaker 1: of the sense techniques where they talk about framing something.
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Speaker 1: You know, can we frame this right now? And you're
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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong here, But your utilization of
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Speaker 1: the kind voice slows things down. It's stopping things in
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Speaker 1: a sense, and it's giving the client and yourself in
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Speaker 1: a sense, the opportunity to kind of review what was
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Speaker 1: just said.
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Speaker 3: Right, And I feel like this is so hard for
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Speaker 3: therapists to do because you don't want to interrupt the client.
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Speaker 3: You want them to understand that wherever they want to go,
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Speaker 3: whatever they're sharing is very important. And so yeah, and
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Speaker 3: we talk about this in my brain health program, like
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Speaker 3: how much how many times to do kind voice in
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Speaker 3: a session?
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Speaker 2: Right?
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Speaker 3: And I think it depends on the client's motivation and
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Speaker 3: understanding of what's going on, and certain people I don't
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Speaker 3: do it at all during But what I do is
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Speaker 3: I just I do the equivalent of kind voice kind
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Speaker 3: of in repeating back what's happening to them. But I
19:03
Speaker 3: don't have them do the technique. So for whatever reason,
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Speaker 3: it doesn't work for them.
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Speaker 1: All right, I'm speaking with Heidi Crockett. We are going
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Speaker 1: to talk about your brain health program. Let's get into it. So,
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Speaker 1: first of all, who's it for?
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Speaker 3: So I would say there's three people, mostly therapists who
19:25
Speaker 3: want to learn more about the brain and self compassion
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Speaker 3: body based therapists in particular, who want to be able
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Speaker 3: to articulate what they do from neuroscience perspective.
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Speaker 2: That's my audience.
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Speaker 1: And also, let me just say interrupt, Yeah, that is
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Speaker 1: a real I think that's a really crucial component of
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Speaker 1: what you do, and I think it's really useful for
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Speaker 1: a lot of somatic therapists to have that. All right,
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Speaker 1: go ahead, Sorry didn't.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I was going to say, I'm giving a
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Speaker 3: free webinar on February fifth on the neuroscience behind why
19:58
Speaker 3: body based therapies are a effective.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and we'll have that linked up here at
20:03
Speaker 1: the show great at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com.
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Speaker 3: So okay, the other audience member that it's for is that, yeah,
20:13
Speaker 3: I'm tracking you.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead.
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Speaker 3: So the other audience member are curious people who just
20:19
Speaker 3: want to be in a group, who want to learn,
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Speaker 3: and they want to be in a kind group. So
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Speaker 3: I have some I have a retired therapist in my group.
20:28
Speaker 3: I have I'm trying to think of different examples, so
20:31
Speaker 3: it doesn't have to necessarily be therapists in the group.
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Speaker 3: It's just people who are curious and who want to learn.
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Speaker 3: Because the group meets twelve times for two hours and
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Speaker 3: we do like a lot of interactive exercises, so in
20:45
Speaker 3: a way, it's like a support group but also like
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Speaker 3: nerding out on all these neuroscience things.
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Speaker 1: Which you love. You could tell it. You love it.
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Speaker 1: You're so passionate about it. I love it. So okay,
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Speaker 1: what's this called?
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Speaker 3: So I call it a professional Certificate in Brain Health.
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Speaker 3: And there's two tracks. There's a Fall semester, which is
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Speaker 3: on the nine Skills of the Wizard Brain. It's on
21:12
Speaker 3: executive function. That's the Fall program. And then the Spring program.
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Speaker 3: It's I called Certificate in Neural Integration neural like neuron
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Speaker 3: and it's on the nine Levels of integration. So there's
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Speaker 3: a fall and a Spring program.
21:30
Speaker 1: Okay, and when does each of those begin specifically.
21:36
Speaker 3: So it's coming up. It's on February sixth. The Spring
21:41
Speaker 3: on the nine levels. The nine levels is the really
21:44
Speaker 3: interesting stuff. It's on attachment and memory and consciousness and
21:48
Speaker 3: the hemispheres.
21:50
Speaker 2: So I'm really excited about this.
21:53
Speaker 4: The well, yeah, so let's I'm curious about people who
21:59
Speaker 4: are listening to this, therapists of all kinds, coaches specifically,
22:03
Speaker 4: not coaches specifically, but coaches also.
22:08
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, this is the type of
22:11
Speaker 1: stuff that I think is really useful for a lot
22:15
Speaker 1: of people. Talk more about what therapists might get out
22:20
Speaker 1: of this.
22:22
Speaker 3: So I one of the things I'm passionate about is
22:25
Speaker 3: that there are ways that therapists are smart. They attune
22:28
Speaker 3: to their clients, they know how to do good work,
22:31
Speaker 3: and you know, there may be ways that if they
22:34
Speaker 3: have a little more neuroscience information they could be they
22:37
Speaker 3: could be more effective.
22:40
Speaker 1: Like give me, give me an example.
22:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's an example in somatic experiencing where I'm trained.
22:47
Speaker 3: Oftentimes they'll have the person pause and they'll have the
22:50
Speaker 3: person go into their body, and that can be fine,
22:55
Speaker 3: but it doesn't always produce the results that I think
22:59
Speaker 3: they're taught, which is like where it causes the person
23:02
Speaker 3: to become more self regulated and on boards their wizard brain.
23:06
Speaker 3: So like how, for example, I might in my program
23:09
Speaker 3: teach people how you could help a person pause and
23:13
Speaker 3: onboard their wizard brain who's in chronic pain. Because you're
23:17
Speaker 3: not going to ask them how to go in the body.
23:20
Speaker 3: You're going to tell them think of an image. You're
23:23
Speaker 3: going to get them in their right hemisphere and you know,
23:26
Speaker 3: tell me something. You're going to get them in the
23:29
Speaker 3: right hemisphere in a way different than having them feel their.
23:32
Speaker 1: Body, because they might not even want to they don't.
23:37
Speaker 2: Want to go in their body or.
23:38
Speaker 1: Be able to do that.
23:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I would say, in my opinion, the reason
23:42
Speaker 3: the body based trauma processing modalities are effective is because
23:46
Speaker 3: they're helping slow down too much of that talk talk
23:49
Speaker 3: talk talk, and they're getting the person. So the opposite
23:53
Speaker 3: of the left hemisphere mafia, in my opinion, is like
23:55
Speaker 3: the prefrontal cortex and the right hemisphere. So yeah, I
23:59
Speaker 3: just kind of explained some neuroscience. So if people can
24:02
Speaker 3: know why what they're doing is effective, and then also
24:06
Speaker 3: when what they're doing might not totally be working, like
24:10
Speaker 3: knowing the neuroscience might help them tweak what they're already doing.
24:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely and have and be able to I think,
24:20
Speaker 1: be more flexible and more creative and adapt in the moment, right,
24:24
Speaker 1: which is crucial. When you say wizard brain are you
24:28
Speaker 1: talking about is that the prefrontal cortex.
24:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, And I call it the wizard
24:34
Speaker 2: brain and the lizard brain.
24:36
Speaker 3: And the reason why is I feel like you don't
24:39
Speaker 3: need to know all the scientific language in order to
24:43
Speaker 3: get an understanding of these two different ways of thinking,
24:46
Speaker 3: same thing with the left and the right hemisphere.
24:49
Speaker 2: But if you have a.
24:50
Speaker 3: General understanding of it, then you can be more effective.
24:52
Speaker 3: So over time, I've just tried to tone down the
24:56
Speaker 3: technical language. But I am talking about like in the lossary,
25:00
Speaker 3: when you do my program, I give you like one
25:02
Speaker 3: hundred and eleven page workbook, and I define the terms.
25:06
Speaker 3: But I was like, I just like, let's.
25:08
Speaker 2: Just keep it simple. Let's just call it the lizard
25:10
Speaker 2: and the Wizard, What.
25:13
Speaker 1: Do you think is the state of education for therapists
25:21
Speaker 1: at this point?
25:25
Speaker 3: I think that I think that we have limitations with
25:29
Speaker 3: our left hemisphere dominant research models. So I don't know
25:34
Speaker 3: if it's necessarily anyone's fault. You know, we have research
25:39
Speaker 3: behind MDR, we have research behind CBD cognitive behavior therapy,
25:45
Speaker 3: but I think some of the more body based there's
25:48
Speaker 3: just not a lot of money behind it. So I
25:51
Speaker 3: think a lot of the and the differences between the
25:53
Speaker 3: hemispheres because of MRI imaging, that's not talked about often.
25:59
Speaker 3: So it's unfortunately it's not this what I'm talking about
26:03
Speaker 3: here during this podcast. It's not translated in the educational
26:07
Speaker 3: system for the most part, and I wish it were.
26:11
Speaker 2: I really do in terms of.
26:14
Speaker 1: Trauma and how that impacts the brain, where does that
26:19
Speaker 1: situate what you're doing? In other words, how are you
26:23
Speaker 1: working with someone, say, who has been traumatized.
26:27
Speaker 3: So I would call trauma the moments that we haven't
26:30
Speaker 3: been resonated with, and sometimes we might think of it
26:33
Speaker 3: as like a memory capsule, and uh, what you're doing
26:38
Speaker 3: right is you're trying to make the person resilient with
26:40
Speaker 3: that thing instead of it just being looping so much
26:42
Speaker 3: that their quality of life is like really awful. So
26:46
Speaker 3: again it's you're just looking at the thinking and you're
26:48
Speaker 3: trying to get the person right to have a better
26:51
Speaker 3: quality of life, so that thing doesn't just, you know,
26:54
Speaker 3: kind of just interfere with their ability to So when
26:58
Speaker 3: I'm working with people and their trauma, it has to
27:01
Speaker 3: do with the brains negativity bias, Like you've probably heard
27:05
Speaker 3: people talk about that. It's just people tend to remember
27:08
Speaker 3: the negative thing. Like if you had a really awesome
27:10
Speaker 3: experience for an hour, but something bad happened for the
27:13
Speaker 3: last two minutes, you're just going to remember the bad.
27:16
Speaker 1: Thing, Right, Is there a difficulty in cultivating an awareness
27:26
Speaker 1: between moving from the right and left hemispheres with Obviously
27:30
Speaker 1: there are different types of trauma, but let's say we're
27:34
Speaker 1: talking about interpersonal trauma.
27:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, So there's shock trauma, which is a car accident,
27:41
Speaker 3: and sometimes we can do a few sessions and I
27:44
Speaker 3: don't think that's stored as deeply. The problem with developmental
27:47
Speaker 3: or relational trauma, right is you have oney seven and
27:51
Speaker 3: ninety one instances of car accidents, So it's just going
27:57
Speaker 3: to take more tinkering with the thinking to get the
28:00
Speaker 3: person out of this kind of the repetitive nature of
28:05
Speaker 3: this thing that doesn't won't you can't get it to
28:07
Speaker 3: shut up, you know.
28:09
Speaker 1: Right right? Okay, all right, Heidi, we have your course
28:17
Speaker 1: coming up February sixth. How can people learn more about
28:21
Speaker 1: you and learn more about this program?
28:25
Speaker 3: So my website is called Center for Integration dot com
28:29
Speaker 3: and you can just reach out to me at Heidi
28:31
Speaker 3: at Center for Integration dot com or you can message
28:36
Speaker 3: me on the contact form okay.
28:39
Speaker 1: And we'll have all that linked up at the show
28:41
Speaker 1: notes page at the Trauma theaverispodcast dot com. Heidi, intense
28:45
Speaker 1: love talking to you. I mean, obviously you're so passionate
28:49
Speaker 1: about this work. Yeah, so how do you keep how
28:52
Speaker 1: do you how do you what? What keeps you passionate
28:55
Speaker 1: about this?
28:57
Speaker 3: I think it's the satisfaction that clients get and like changes.
29:01
Speaker 3: And then also if I teach one therapist and then
29:05
Speaker 3: their whole client, Look, you know, it's making a difference
29:08
Speaker 3: in people's lives. To me, that's where the passion is awesome.
29:12
Speaker 1: Look, love to have you back at a later date
29:16
Speaker 1: and excited to get this out there for you. Thank
29:19
Speaker 1: you so much for being here.
29:20
Speaker 2: Thanks you guys, it was great.
29:22
Speaker 1: Take care bye,