Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 372. Starting + Sustaining a Planned Giving Program - Tony Martignetti

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372. Starting + Sustaining a Planned Giving Program - Tony Martignetti · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:01
  Jonathan McCoy: You need more than just technology to make a lasting change in this world.
• 0:03
  Jonathan McCoy: And that's why Neon One offers a nonprofit platform that's designed to grow with you providing software and resources that help nonprofit professionals make their connections that matter.
• 0:14
  Jonathan McCoy: connections with their peers, connections with their supporters, and connections with their mission. Learn how Neon One makes it easy to design amazing generosity experiences by visiting neonone.com/weareforgood.
• 0:31
  Jonathan McCoy: Hey, I'm Jon.
• 0:32
  Becky Endicott: And I'm Becky.
• 0:33
  Jonathan McCoy: And this is the We Are For Good podcast.
• 0:36
  Becky Endicott: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:45
  Jonathan McCoy: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:53
  Becky Endicott: So welcome to the good community, we're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 1:04
  Jonathan McCoy: So let's get started. Oh, Becky, we've got a legend in the house.
• 1:09
  Becky Endicott: Like literally a legend I'm bowing down right now to the king of nonprofit podcasting.
• 1:16
  Jonathan McCoy: Seriously, we have the podcasting legend. We have the plan, giving legend and just all around good human in the house. We have Tony Martignetti on the podcast today. And you probably know him from his show, because he's been podcasting before podcasting was cool for over 12 years, more than 600 episodes, just a legendary person about lifting conversation and making that democratize and accessible to people everywhere and to nonprofits and seeing the small nonprofits across the country.
• 1:39
  Jonathan McCoy: And so he also has this incredible heartbeat for planned giving. And he has been pouring into the space encouraging us all to look at this, to feel comfortable about this. Because at the end of the day, it does come down to conversations. And so I love that we're going to be led into the ultimate conversation with someone that's so good at talking, as Tony is himself. But for 22 years, Tony has worked side by side with nonprofits of all sizes to create plan giving programs that help them meet their fundraising goals. And so he actually created this plan giving accelerator and there's more than 1000 nonprofit that their vision is to create 1000 plan giving programs across the US through this accelerator program. And for us, you know, it comes up on the podcast because definitely a part of our tool belt. But I'll be the first to admit we don't talk about it enough because this is something that every nonprofit could approach. And so I'm really delighted to have this conversation, hopefully to destigmatize some of the aspects of it. But also just to get to hear a little bit about your experience. So Tony, we're delighted to have you in our house. Thanks for coming on the podcast today.
• 2:38
  Tony Martignetti: It's my pleasure, John. Thank you. Thank you, Becky. You're such an effusive welcome. Thank you so much. very gracious, thank you.
• 2:45
  Jonathan McCoy: Well, the enthusiasm is real. I mean, I remember running across your podcast when we first ever dreamed of doing this. And I mean, you truly have been setting the bar so high for so long. So thank you for coming in. Today, I'm going to give you space to just introduce yourself to our audience. Tell us a little bit about your story.
• 2:59
  Jonathan McCoy: Maybe even growing up of what led you into this incredibly hard wired work. Serving the social impact sector.
• 3:06
  Tony Martignetti: It really started with hating practicing law. I'm so glad I'm a lawyer, I'm so glad to have a law degree that I went to law school, I still encourage people to go to law school, I loved all that.
• 3:21
  Tony Martignetti: The practice of law did not appeal to me, very unpleasant way to make a lot of money is what I thought so it was just too well. I was gonna say too short, probably two very long years practicing law. And then I reengineered myself into plans giving fundraising you know, first as a frontline fundraiser at I was at one college, then I moved to a university, both in the New York City area. And then in 2003 I started consulting so this actually is my 25th year and planned giving my silver anniversary I started 1997
• 4:01
  Becky Endicott: coming your way first
• 4:03
  Tony Martignetti: college decent thank you yes, I started at that college 25 years ago and and then I was a frontline fundraiser at those two places for six years. And then I started consulting and in Oh, three,
• 4:17
  Becky Endicott: I mean, what interesting story as always, it just tells me Tony like you're one of us. You've been in the trenches, you've been on the front lines. And I mean, the biggest most looming question that I have is how did you get this passion for planned giving because there's not a lot of people in the development space who have a passion for it because there are parts of it that are very complicated and and I think that scares people off but as somebody who was a frontline gift officer him was one of those people and was very intimidated because I didn't have the law degree. I didn't have a seat, my CPA, but I found that once you were talking about legacy giving, it was the most no natural thing in the world to talk to somebody about how do you just leave a legacy? So I'm just curious about that right out of the gate how you came into this?
• 5:08
  Tony Martignetti: Well, I love the company of older Americans.
• 5:13
  Becky Endicott: Me too.
• 5:14
  Tony Martignetti: I'm starting actually, I'm just getting to get a little. My synesthesia is kicking in, I'm getting a little, little weepy just thinking about some of the folks, you know, I have regular conversations with a woman who just turned 99 I got to celebrate her birthday with her, you know, the, but she's at the extreme, that's the oldest donor to a, to a client, you know, that I've ever worked with. But I love the company of folks, you know, like, 70. And over, you know, they, they have rich stories, they have a different way of, of looking at the US, their own lives, the world, you know, obviously not digital natives. They love handwritten notes. And they write back handwritten notes. You know, picking up the phone is perfectly natural to them. And they just have a rich history, you know, you think about, I mean, this woman who's 99 World War, she was a youngster in World War One, and she remembers World War Two. And, you know, everything since then she was a she fleed the Nazis she was, she was a she's a German Jew. Fleet.
• 6:22
  Tony Martignetti: She remembers, you know, being 20 or so roughly, when, when her family left. I might have the age wrong. But when her friends and family left Germany, so just, you know, these kinds of stories about the world wars, the Great Depression, something else that folks of that era, you know, talk about? And remember, you know, that was, that was monumental. You know, that's like, you know, think about how many nine elevens they've been through, you think about World Wars and the Great Depression.
• 6:53
  Tony Martignetti: You know, we think about the Great Recession, think about the Great Depression. So, I just I love their company. I love the company of older Americans. I used to love the company of my grandparents when all four of them were alive. So, yeah, yeah, I just I love talking to these folks. You know what I'm curious about them. And having a healthy curiosity of people. I think that helps in, in any type of fundraising, any type of fundraising. And, yeah, Becky, I just want to, I want to reassure you, and folks, you know, if you're, if you're intimidated by Planned Giving, if you think you need a law degree or a CPA degree, or whatever certificate, you know, you're mistaken. You don't, you don't want to launch plan giving anybody anybody can do it. And I'm sure we'll we'll get into some of that. But, you know, please, you don't need a board. You don't need a lawyer on your board on your staff.
• 7:52
  Tony Martignetti: Yeah. I'm a lawyer. And I'm first one that probably really wanted me to tell you, you don't need one. Too many lawyers, lawyers. Don't hire a lawyer.
• 7:59
  Tony Martignetti: You don't. You don't. You don't?
• 8:04
  Tony Martignetti: Well, it's simple when it's when it's done, right, the launching, launching plan to giving
• 8:09
  Jonathan McCoy: I could say that at the beginning. But I'm like, it is about value aligned conversations. And it's about going deep into people's understanding their lives and their perspectives. And so we kind of set the tone for the opportunity here. So we have a lot of nonprofit leaders listening, but people that kind of surround this space to what kind of opportunity is available for playing gifts to the space right now.
• 8:38
  Tony Martignetti: Oh, enormous.
• 8:38
  Tony Martignetti: You know, even during the pandemic, there was a I think it was a Martin Lundy survey, that 72% or 75% of nonprofits had seen increased interest in planned giving in the depths of the pandemic we're talking about now, not in the early days, but like a year in 18 months into the pandemic, because everybody was, you know, facing their own mortality. Right, exactly. Think think back to March, April, May 2020. I mean, we weren't sure, if we, none of us as an individual was sure we would survive this thing. You know, before we learned that it was, it's worse for those who are sort of lung compromised, right, or have other disease processes or for the elderly. But in the early months, we were all questioning whether we'd live another year. So people of all ages were questioning their mortality early on and and that led to an increased interest in planned giving, which I which I think has continued. Now, I haven't seen a survey. Since you know, I'm not going to say the pandemic is over. But since that Marcin Lundy survey, which was late, I think that was late 2012 I'm pretty sure that was November 2020. This this increased interest, but I think you know, sort of was an awakening for lots of people.
• 9:53
  Tony Martignetti: And if you want to if you want to stat, the average charitable bequest, In the US, is $35,000.
• 10:03
  Tony Martignetti: And that's on the conservative side. I've seen higher estimates than that. But that's what I'm very comfortable citing $35,000.
• 10:10
  Tony Martignetti: So you know, that's a that's a major gift for lots and lots of organizations. And you know what, and it's a major gift for most donors. So they, you know, people believe that they can't make this ultimate gift is$35,000, or even $10,000 gift while they're living. So planned giving Simple Gifts in wills, perfect opportunity for for nonprofits. And for donors.
• 10:38
  Becky Endicott: I'm so glad we're having this conversation right now, like 2023. Because if you do not have this as a part of your fundraising strategy, and as a core pillar, because John is reminding me just of our second core value, which is play the long game. This is the ultimate playing the long game play in nonprofit. And guess what these are your believers we talk so much about, we're not out looking for donors, we're looking for believers, these are the people that will do anything and show up for us in ways that are beyond money, because they're so passionate and so entrenched in our mission. And so I want you to talk a little bit about the myths. Because I think there's a lot of fear.
• 11:19
  Becky Endicott: We've talked about the stigma around it. I think there's some fear about what are all these words, you've got so many acronyms. I remember the Krutz and the chair, Kratz the whole thing. And I mean, break down some of those myths and make people feel a little bit better about it here in the modern age.
• 11:39
  Tony Martignetti: Yes, absolutely. Thank you. Well, one of the best, we've already talked about, that you need a lawyer on your board or on your staff or as a consultant. Okay, we've dashed that one. Another myth that you have to offer all these different acronym type gifts that you that you just mentioned, Becky, and I can go one further the NEM, crud, the net income, net income, make provision, charitable media unit trust. That's BS. You don't need that. You don't. I mean, you could. But what let's? Yeah, before we get to,
• 12:11
  Becky Endicott: Let's let's keep it simple. Let's get this.
• 12:13
  Tony Martignetti: Let's keep it simple. Yeah, talking about launching with the simplest of all planned gifts. And, importantly, the most common of all planned gifts, the simple gift by will, charitable bequest, okay, those are interchangeable, gifted, will charitable bequest, they mean the same thing. That's where you launch your Planned Giving Program. Why? Well, as I said, they're the most popular planned gift. So even if your program 20 years from now, is still only offering charitable bequest options as gift. And when I say only I don't mean that pejoratively at all that you've just chosen over 20 years to stick to plan giving, just in gifts by will, you will have captured at least 75 to maybe as much as 90% of the gifts that you would have gotten anyway, if you had expanded into the crafts and the crops and the NIMH crops and the CGAS and the and the puffs and the Daffs. And Alright, so you're capturing the vast majority of gifts anyway.
• 13:14
  Tony Martignetti: Anyway, yeah, I hate the accurate. Yeah,
• 13:15
  Becky Endicott: It makes it sound like you're trying to get something up, you know, you're trying to cough something.
• 13:23
  Jonathan McCoy: When it's like, you know, it can be so simple when you break down because because we had, what does that mean for someone? This is new, like, what does it tangibly look like for someone to add you to their will?
• 13:33
  Tony Martignetti: Well, you're asking them to take a big step, no question. Because let's say you're talking to a female donor, you're asking her to include your nonprofit, alongside her husband, children, grandchildren, maybe even dear friends, sometimes our dear friends work their way into our will we want to include them in our will. So but husband, children, grandchildren, right?
• 13:55
  Tony Martignetti: That's a that's quite an that's quite a position to ask someone to elevate you to put you along.
• 14:04
  Tony Martignetti: There's a gift alongside all those folks in their will. Well, but when you're talking and I Becky, I think you mentioned this. When you're talking to the right, folks, this becomes a natural extension of the giving that they're already doing.
• 14:19
  Tony Martignetti: Because talking to the right folks means talking to your loyal, committed donors. This is not a new debt. This is not an acquisition donor acquisition strategy. That's, I can promise you that one thing playing giving is not is going to bring you new donors. You're talking to your loyal committed donors.
• 14:38
  Tony Martignetti: And I like to start these conversations for folks who are about 55 to 60. And over and when you're talking to these folks, and they've been committed to you for a while they've they've been using the folks who over 10 years have given you like 12 or 15 gifts, right? Or over 20 years they've given you 18 or 20 or 25 gifts.
• 14:54
  Tony Martignetti: I'm talking long term donors When you're talking to those folks, the conversation is, is quite normal. It's a natural extension of the giving, they've already done and been doing.
• 15:06
  Tony Martignetti: I've been doing it for 25 years, I've never got slapped in the face when the conversation is done, right? It's an honor.
• 15:14
  Tony Martignetti: You're honoring the person's giving off or after all these years over all these years. And you're respecting it, and you're asking them to take another step. include you in their will.
• 15:26
  Tony Martignetti: And when the conversation is done, right. You asked about myths, Becky, I'm gonna defeat another myth. This is the death conversation. No. This is a conversation about life, the life, the sustainability, the long term survival of your nonprofit. That's what the conversation is about. It's not a death conversation.
• 15:50
  Jonathan McCoy: Okay, we have the mind blowing emoji going up.
• 15:53
  Tony Martignetti: You're talking about, you're talking to somebody who loves your mission.
• 15:54
  Tony Martignetti: And they want to see it survive.
• 15:59
  Tony Martignetti: You're giving them away to help that come to fruition?
• 16:02
  Jonathan McCoy: And I don't want to miss this. I mean, I think the way they explain explanation you just gave is beautiful.
• 16:07
  Jonathan McCoy: Because not once did you say, Okay, pull out your major donors who have given the most to your organization, you talked about loyalty, you know, and you talked about that kind of repeatability, it's part of their lifestyle. That's what we're pulling out of our database, which is not the typical, I think perception of this. So I think that also disarms, with these conversations look like.
• 16:27
  Becky Endicott: And Tony just gave you a great starting point, everybody, if you go go back, the last five minutes, take those notes, because you literally just gave the metrics by which you could do a pull out of your database from people who have given, you know, somewhere from 15 to 2020 years, you know, in longevity, people who have made you know, more than 12 to 15 gifts to your organization.
• 16:46
  Becky Endicott: And you even gave us the script to say which is so helpful. And I just don't
• 16:54
  Tony Martignetti: I'm gonna kill the I'm gonna kill the membership. And my next plan giving accelerator class. You guys are killing, killing me here.
• 17:02
  Becky Endicott: All right, I just think you know, what you're saying has such resonance with me, because I shared my fear at the beginning. But let me tell you the back end of what happened when I did get into play and giving, if you are someone who stresses and has such impostor syndrome, as we all do about going out and asking for a major gift, this is the lowest anxiety call you will ever make. I absolutely love my planned giving calls. Because they knew us. They knew us.
• 17:33
  Becky Endicott: Well. They were not surprised we were coming. We I could I had so much to talk about in the sequence of the gifts over the years, we had so many stories to share. And so when you think about that, how are we going to do this very complicated. Lee, even if you do a complicated something that's like at the 99 yard line. Everything else is about how are we just having a conversation about your dreams, and the things that you want to go on and on. And to me, those were the easiest conversations.
• 18:07
  Becky Endicott: And if I'm being entirely honest, and selfish, I love them because they filled my heart.
• 18:11
  Becky Endicott: Like the joy that I got from seeing someone who was thinking about the end of their life and the culmination of what they could do. That's a heady moment, what a gift that we get to stand in that space. And be the conduit and the bridge to allow somebody to do that. I love playing giving. I'm here for it.
• 18:31
  Tony Martignetti: Alright, Jon, you and I are going to now interview Becky, the guest who's so eloquently and beautifully.
• 18:42
  Tony Martignetti: Don't apologize. That was magnificent. It's,
• 18:45
  Becky Endicott: I just believe in it. Yeah, I think it's great.
• 18:48
  Jonathan McCoy: Well, the other person interviewing you has never solicited anybody for a plane. And yes, you know, I remember hearing the annual giving land, but I just think I would love for you to kind of walk us through the person that wants to start a Planned Giving Program at their organization, like what are some of the ways you can start with goal setting?
• 19:03
  Jonathan McCoy: What does that even look like for something like this? And then kind of go into some of the steps?
• 19:07
  Tony Martignetti: Yeah, you know, for your first year or two, you know, the goals or I think the goals should be how many gifts, gift commitments, you know, of course, you're talking about commitments. You know, it's it's an unknown at your nonprofit, when you're when you're launching, right, so let's start with having a goal of talking to your board about Planned Giving. And then the essential so you probably do that in a board meeting. But then the essential follow up on an individual basis. There's a goal that you're going to you're going to meet with the board talking about planning to giving, solicit them and mass and then there's going to be a follow up call to each individual board member. There's a goal there's a very respectable goal for year one on it. Number of conversations you're going to open there's there's a there's a great All, you're going to identify top prospects, you know, we've talked about the most loyal folks, you know, you want your top prospects, and then you have your tier two prospects. Maybe tier two is a little less loyal, but they're still quite loyal, just not as loyal as top prospects, and top prospects you might have. Those might be folks that you already have a good relationship with somebody in the organization already knows them, and is comfortable opening a conversation with them. So that might be how you delineate your top prospects to your to your to prospects, from YouTube prospects. Yeah, so there's, there's some goals, you know, number of conversations, you open number of prospects, you identify. You tier two, you typically you talk to plan giving about those folks in in mass versus your top prospects, you want to have individual one on one meetings with those folks. So and mastering or maybe say, you know, for tier two, maybe you get out one mailing in the first year, or two mailings, or you know, could be this could be digital or print however, you you decide to do it, one or two, one or two, direct mail pieces out email or direct mail pieces out in year one, and talk to your board. And you're going to follow up with each of your board members. There's there's very respectable goals for plan for plan giving for years one and two.
• 21:52
  Becky Endicott: Love all of these tactics, I hope everybody's taking notes, because those were really great starter points. But I want to know about like, what are the must haves, if somebody's going to start with a core group of items, what would be in their toolbox? Tony,
• 22:05
  Tony Martignetti: I looked for a couple things, your organization really needs to be at least five years old. Because think about what we're doing, we're asking someone to include you in their will, they need to be confident that your organization is going to survive them. And while you're, if you're fewer than five years old, I know there's a lot of zeal and passion and love for the work. But donors are not going to be so certain you know, in those first four or five years that your organization will live beyond them. So I look for at least five years longevity, and I look for more than the founder, or just one or two full time employees the same same reason, you know, if it's just the founder and one other person, that's That's not.
• 22:55
  Tony Martignetti: That's not a real strong signal of sustainability. To me. So I think you want to, you want to recognize that your donors are going to have some concerns, right? So that's about your, your own sustainability. So I looked for the five years, and more than just the founder and one or two full time employees, it's awesome. The other thing you absolutely have to have is individual donors. You know, if you're 100% funded from foundations, or corporate support, or other grants, maybe government grants or fees, fees, fees from services, you know, then you don't have individual donors, there is nobody to put you in their will. So you have to have these loyal committed donors that I talked about earlier. So smart. That's really it. You know, you know, that's, you know, so if we released this podcast on a Thursday, I would say, Take Friday for yourself.
• 23:54
  Tony Martignetti: Think about it over the weekend, and start identifying your prospects on Monday. By Wednesday, you should make make those first phone calls. Oh, give yourself a week
• 24:02
  Jonathan McCoy: The one week planned giving plan. This is awesome.
• 24:05
  Tony Martignetti: Yeah, please.
• 24:05
  Tony Martignetti: You're just opening a conversation.
• 24:07
  Jonathan McCoy: So Tony, how about those that already have a program in place, but it's just feeling a little stale? And I would say this is probably at least my experience when we're at different organizations, it's easy to kind of fall in that category. How do you bring new energy and get people excited about this as part of their development plan?
• 24:23
  Tony Martignetti: Anybody who works with me never suffers that, Jon, because I'm the evangelist for planned giving.
• 24:29
  Tony Martignetti: With no no religious overtones.
• 24:29
  Tony Martignetti: I'm the evangelist for plan to giving. So I'm always advocating, I'm always thinking about who can we invite? How can we get more, get more exposure for the idea of including us in your will? Okay, but not I'm not fighting, you're fighting your question or anything. So all right, if your program is your program is kind of stale. I would recommend, probably not surprising, you know, just go back to the basic gifts by will, let's put a focus on it. Maybe you've got too many gift options. Maybe the maybe the folks who are talking to your donors, your frontline fundraisers aren't comfortable raising all the different gift options. So they don't do it because they can't distinguish between a charitable remainder annuity trust and a charitable remainder unit trust and their eyes glaze over when you try to train them. Just put it aside.
• 25:17
  Tony Martignetti: Focus on the very simple the gifts by will, because both your frontline fundraisers and your potential donors have three things in common. They all know what a wheel is. They all know how a wheel works. And they all know that they need one. So I would suggest, if your program is kind of moribund, as big why or where I get that word from.
• 25:47
  Becky Endicott: That's a great word. Googling that right now.
• 25:51
  Tony Martignetti: if it's more abundant, don't cut that out, Julie. I want moribund to survive the edits. Yeah, if your program is moribund, lackluster, I would suggest going back to the basics, make sure you also that in terms of gift gift discussions, keep it simple. And then, you know, who are your prospects? Who, who are you talking to you, you know, if you don't have an active prospect pipeline, then that, of course, is going to lead to a stale, moribund program, you got to keep that pipeline fresh. So let's go back to basics again, identify those folks who were the most loyal, consistent donors and go from there. So in terms of gifts, and prospects, that's how I would try to revive a sad program.
• 26:43
  Becky Endicott: A sad program, because we want it to be a happy program. That's what we're here for. Yeah. And I love that we're having this conversation at the top of the year, because everybody, we're all literally on the same playing field, everybody is starting back over, we're we're dusting off those strategic plans. We're looking at our metrics. And I want to throw you this question, Tony, because I'm so curious what you're gonna say, I want you to give us a couple of do this not that, that you would like people to focus on? What are some of the things we need to sunset doing? And what are the things we need to start doing? And I'm very curious to know if there's anything that you're seeing that's trending or more modern, as we're in this digital age, or if just that age old rhythm is still constant in the thing that's gonna get us through?
• 27:33
  Tony Martignetti: Yeah, you know, I don't see a lot of advances in planned giving, that some folks might say, Well, that makes it dull. I say that makes it comfortable. You know, you don't, we're not when you're focused on gift by gifts by will, you're not subject to the next. The next revision in the estate tax, or the next tax code change. It's just simple gifts by will, right. Alright, so what to throw out and what to keep in Alright, though, of course, we got to throw out all these insidious, hateful myths, that you need a lawyer, they need a whole bunch of different gifts, that this is only for your major donors. Oh, I got another one.
• 28:09
  Tony Martignetti: We could throw out that this is going to hurt your other fundraising? Oh, yes. Yes, exactly. Yes.
• 28:19
  Becky Endicott: I've seen this play out. And people get territorial about it. And in there's no reasons. Absolutely.
• 28:26
  Tony Martignetti: Yes, you're right. Your fundraisers get territorial board members get nervous, oh, you're gonna kill our fundraising. It's 180 degrees from that's complete opposite. First. In my own 25 years, I've seen it hundreds and hundreds of times. Probably 1000s. Folks who include you in there will increase their giving otherwise, their annual giving their major giving. Why? Because they feel so close, so much closer to your organization.
• 28:53
  Tony Martignetti: They've put you Alongside this, this donor has put you alongside her husband in her will. She feels really close to you. And it reflects itself in their giving. Okay, you might say Wow.
• 29:05
  Tony Martignetti: 20 more nearly 25 years of anecdotes. what's that worth? 25 a quarter century of anecdotes?
• 29:14
  Tony Martignetti: No, good. All right. Go to Texas Tech University. Professor Russell James. He studies planned giving, he's a professor there at Texas Tech. He's quantitatively studied this. And it's something like two thirds to three quarters of the people who include you in there will not just a general plan gift. He specifically his research was specific to gifts by will two thirds to three quarters of the people who include you in their will, will increase their other giving. So Wow. So you can dismiss my 25 years of Tony anecdotes, write those off and go to Professor Russell James at Texas Tech.
• 29:54
  Becky Endicott: Okay, I've talked to Dr. James before but he's amazing. I do we we're LinkedIn buddies. And he is such a generous human being. I'm actually gonna drop this in the show notes. He sent me an entire list of books you can read podcast, his research findings.
• 30:11
  Becky Endicott: If this is something that you're really curious about. He's really open source this so that anybody can consume it. And I think that's the beauty of what podcasting does and learning does. We want to democratize what we know because we all that all a rising tide lifts all boats and so and I also want to say don't miss what Tony just said there, if someone makes a plan gift, do not make the colossal error I've seen in one of my organizations that will remain nameless, which is you take them off your solicitation strategy, because they think, Oh, they're already giving, we shouldn't ask them for anything else. That is old thinking. And you're actually taking away their ability to enrich this gift. And to create keep creating impact. So thank you so much for for even talking about that Tony and lifting that up.
• 31:04
  Tony Martignetti: I have a story this week, it was yesterday, I just learned it. Someone who is he's 84. He has the organization in his will. Before I started working, working with him, his life to date giving was about$1,300. This week, he sent a check a check to the organization for $12,000.
• 31:27
  Tony Martignetti: Because he got a mail, he got a piece in the mail. And it was asking for, I don't know what piece it was, it was not a planned giving piece. But to your point, Becky, we keep him we keep our plan giving donors on a direct mail channel. And he got a piece and he was so moved.
• 31:44
  Tony Martignetti: But he's already got us in His will, that he made another ultimate gift for himself a gift of $12,000 in cash, where before he was a planned giving donor and hadn't included us in as well, as they said his lifetime giving was 1300. And I expect he will do other things like that.
• 32:05
  Tony Martignetti: So we absolutely keep people on the direct mail channel, when and other channels when they have made a gift in their will.
• 32:13
  Tony Martignetti: The only reason you wouldn't is if they say, you know, I don't want to get any other pieces from you. But I could probably count on one hand the number of times that's happened times that's happened in 25 years.
• 32:23
  Jonathan McCoy: Like quit telling us stories of people making a difference. Yeah.
• 32:26
  Tony Martignetti: People just don't think like that. They love the organization. They want to hear from you, for God's sake.
• 32:31
  Becky Endicott: Yeah, that's it.
• 32:31
  Becky Endicott: That's it. And that's an engagement point, every time every time you drop something in the mailbox, they're thinking of you every time you send them an email, they're thinking of you.
• 32:38
  Becky Endicott: And I just I just think this is gold. Tony, thank you.
• 32:43
  Tony Martignetti: My pleasure.
• 32:44
  Jonathan McCoy: I wonder if we could talk about sustaining programs for a minute, because we know our industry has a high turnover rate and the fundraising field unfortunately, what does that look like to bridge these kind of really deep relationships? And how do you really advise, you know, kind of building sustainability into the way that you create your program?
• 33:00
  Tony Martignetti: Well, you know, you want the relationship to be with the organization, not with a person. Right? I mean, so the more people in the organization, that your plan giving donors, I think, and all donors, but we'll focus on what I know a little about. You want your plan, giving donors to meet lots of people in the organization. So that if there is some turnover, there's still continuity, because they know a lot of people, right? Sometimes I've introduced donors to other donors at an event. I hadn't planned it that way. But, but some folks have something in common, maybe it's a sports team, or maybe they live in the same neighborhood, or they have lived in the same state or something like that. So there's opportunities to introduce donors to donors, as well as a number of people in the organization. But you know, just overall, John, you know, you want that connection with the, with the, with the mission. And when you've got that, and of course, you're talking to long term committed donors. So you've you've got to, when you're talking to those folks, you've got a big step up in having mission type conversations, program type conversations. You know, folks will excuse turnover, you know, they understand that they don't love it. But your your committed loyal donors understand that people move on. So they'll, they're not going to take you out of their will or, you know, think poorly of you. I mean, unless your turnover is rampant.
• 34:25
  Tony Martignetti: You know, if they're meeting somebody new every six months, you've got some systemic problems. But short of that, you know, people understand that relationships change. I mean, I come in as a consultant to a lot of nonprofits. And so I have to start or I have to start relationships a new, it's doable, it's very doable.
• 34:46
  Becky Endicott: Tony is making us a believer in how to build a culture around playing giving, how many of you out there have a culture of intentionality around making plan giving a focus other than those of you who have a plan giving department I think this is just something that should be baked into what we do.
• 35:05
  Becky Endicott: And I'll tell you on the back end, it's going to feel so good to you to find these stories to make these legacy gifts come to bear. And so I have all these stories that are kind of weaving through my mind right now of different donors that I've talked to in the past and I have got to think that you have got hundreds Tony, and so we really value story around here and I'm wondering if there's a story or a moment of philanthropy, that is profound. only changed you and stayed with you that you might share with us today.
• 35:37
  Tony Martignetti: It was a small Historical Society, small, meaning they had one full time employee. And we did our very first mailing around plant giving to about 250 people. And they got back six responses that said, either the organization is already in my will, or I will include it. But the organization in my well, I'll add them. So six, six new gift commitments in the very first mailing from an organization that had just just the executive director, and your budget of about $250,000. To get that number of commitments early in the first mailing. It just, it sustained me for years, years. And it's it's proof that small organizations can have great success with Planned Giving. So that that one has always stayed with me, that little historical society. Now I do want to say what you think this guy is contradicting himself earlier, he said, No more than just the founder, and one or two, or no fewer than just the founder, one or two employees. You know, they invite this guy, Martin Eddie on the show, and then all he does is contradict himself. Why am I wasting my time listening to this? Okay. First of all, she was not the founder. And the organization was like 35, or 40 years old, it was a long standing Historical Society. So with that kind of longevity, you know, I would relax the one employee constraint, because your organization,
• 37:13
  Becky Endicott: We're gonna put an asterisk on that we're gonna go back and just put a big asterisk on that and other stuff in certain situations. Yeah.
• 37:20
  Tony Martignetti: So yeah, the lawyer, footnote dropped the footnote want. You know. So there are exceptions for an agency that's been around that long, but you know, such an uplifting story. It's just drives home that small nonprofits, small midsize shops can really have success with Planned Giving.
• 37:38
  Becky Endicott: You're such a romantic,
• 37:40
  Jonathan McCoy: And direct mail is not dead, like you got to know who you're talking to, and what's going to connect with people too. So, you know, we round out all these conversations asking for your one good thing. And Tony, you've had a lot of experiences, what's a mantra or a secret to your success, or just a habit that you love that you would live with our community today? As a one good thing,
• 37:57
  Tony Martignetti: I would say that every day is a new opportunity. You know, yesterday doesn't define you yesterday doesn't define your organization. We're in January, so whatever you and your organization did in 2022, it was successful. Congratulations. If it was less than you wanted.
• 38:20
  Tony Martignetti: That's okay to 2023 is a brand new year. The past doesn't define you each day each week, month year. You have an opportunity to grow to succeed, to improve. Don't Don't let the past hold you back.
• 38:37
  Becky Endicott: He really is the Oracle. Like I know, I feel like I can do anything now. Okay, I'm gonna go run a marathon. Tony, you're so great. I just feel like it's been such a gift to just have an hour of your time and sit in your aura and soak up all this knowledge from you. I know people are gonna want to connect with you. So tell us where are you hanging out to talk about nonprofit radio because we definitely want them if you're a podcast listener here you can definitely get a lot out of Tony Show Tell us where you hang out on socials and where people can connect
• 39:07
  Jonathan McCoy: And the accelerator we want to hear about your planned giving accelerator.
• 39:09
  Becky Endicott: Oh yeah, drop that too.
• 39:11
  Tony Martignetti: The most sensible way would probably be to download my PDF called unleash the game changing power of Planned Giving at your nonprofit you can get that well I have a I have a QR code but for right now I really want to put a QR code in the notes or not but
• 39:31
  Becky Endicott: Heck yeah we do send that QR code overall socialize that sucker.
• 39:35
  Tony Martignetti: Okay, there you got that in the notes and if you're strictly an audio listener tony.ma/guide Gu ID e twenty.ma/guide. brings you right to the page get to download Tony my daddy nonprofit radio that's my podcast. Thank you for mentioning it several times. It's everything I think small and mid sized shops struggle with we are in our 12th year 620 episodes are so roughly every single week brand new episode we've got 13,000 listeners a week in small and mid size shops. The just Google if you just Google you know nonprofit radio. You'll you'll find it up it's wherever find podcasts are heard. Right so it's on it's on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Stitcher and you know a bunch of other smaller platforms. Wherever wherever you listen, it's probably there. You accelerator plans giving accelerator. It's the online community where I teach folks in what I'd say this has turned out to be such a glorious, beautiful peer to peer learning. Forget forget, forget to remember host, you know, the hosted thing Tony Martin Edie, like the peer to peer learning, because I haven't tried everything. And lots of lots of what comes up with in the classes is beyond plant giving. So you know, we absolutely bring it in, you have a difficult board member, let's talk about it. So, like the peer to peer learning has been incredible. But and then so as a footnote, 21 Edie will teach you how to launch planned giving at your nonprofit, we'll meet once a week, for three months, the next class starts in March, early March, you'll be done by Memorial Day. And you know, of course, they give you resources and templates and checklists and, and we I conduct everything as a meeting, not a webinar. So you just blow your question right out, you know, interrupt me, I'm from New York City, you can't offend me. You know, you don't put your questions in a chat in in, in plain giving accelerator, you just, you just start talking. And then I'll and then we'll get to it. So I keep a fun, you know, informal but still valuable vibe, inside the accelerator. And that's all that PlannedGivingaccelerator.com.
• 42:03
  Becky Endicott: And we'll link all that up in the shownotes. So you can get to it. We're gonna have a wealth of resources for you today. So I feel that I have the tiger music, I've got my rocky gloves on. We are ready to take on playing, giving and 2023 I hope you feel hyped and ready for it. Please go check out Tony's podcast check out his resources he is he is truly the leader on this in our sector.
• 42:25
  Becky Endicott: And we just value your voice and your kindness so much. So thanks for coming into our house today and just inspiring us and I know right? It's just like we had legend hour here and it was just what we thought it would be.
• 42:40
  Tony Martignetti: And when you say our house Becky? It's very sweet. Thank you. Thank thank you for inviting me in. Let's open. Let's open a bottle of wine together.
• 42:48
  Becky Endicott: Cabernet. Let's do it here for.
• 42:50
  Tony Martignetti: Love Cabernet.
• 42:51
  Jonathan McCoy: Thank you. Thank you.
• 42:51
  Tony Martignetti: Thank you.
• 42:51
  Tony Martignetti: Becky, thank you. Thank you very much, Jonn. Thank you. Thanks very much for hosting.
• 42:56
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• 42:58
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• 43:18
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• 43:29
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