Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / A Slob Comes Clean | a conversation with author Dana White

Transcript

A Slob Comes Clean | a conversation with author Dana White · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are new here, we are so glad you joined us.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ashley Pittman and I, Amy Wicks, are your hosts of the Simply Wholehearted Podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: We believe we are all on a journey to live out the mission to love the Lord with all of our heart, mind, and spirit.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Our mission is to inspire and equip you to live unplugged, purposeful, and intentional in every season of life.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: We hope to encourage you by sharing our stories of friends, new and old alike, who are living out their calling and purpose with passion.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks to our friends from Inner the Worship Circle, Ben Pasley and Carla Adolph, who have been so kind to share their song, Heavenly Things, from their album down here and up above.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Be sure and follow them for their latest releases and profound thoughts at Inertheworship Circle.com and all things social.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now, during this first month of the year, the six fantastic women from last season's Unseen Journey group are back together.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are inviting you to join us for the last week of our three weeks into a new year.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: And this week we are talking about dreaming for the year ahead.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have some practical tools and tons of inspiration about fasting, finding your word, and planning for the year ahead.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: We hope to have you follow along with us on the Simply Wholehearted Facebook page.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask your questions and share your stories.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: We love to hear them.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is known by a few names.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: You might know her as Nani from A Slob Comes Clean, but her real name is Dana White.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: And she gives you the completely honest and never-ending story about her personal deslobification process.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I think that is actually a word.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: She makes all of us who struggle with our housekeeping know we are not alone and gives us a place to gain hope that you too can change.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great to learn from someone who understands the unique workings of what Nani calls a slob brain.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm already currently more than halfway done with reading her first book, How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind, and it's both practical and funny.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I've already implemented several ideas which have been game changers to tackle the mess.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And right now it happens to be only$1.99 for an ebook on Amazon.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you should download it today after you've pre-ordered her second book, Decluttering at the Speed of Life, which happens to be releasing next month.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Dana is giving away a five-day clutter shakedown if you pre-order the book, her newest book, before February 27th.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And because she is so generous, if you follow us on Instagram or Facebook, you'll be able to enter to win an advanced copy of Decluttering at the Speed of Life.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now here's our conversation with Dana White.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would pop in and so you could see my face.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Hey.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And here's Ashley.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Ashley.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Good to meet you.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: She is my friend who decided to jump on my crazy train with this podcast.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we're having fun.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's great.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So Ashley has also um heard of you before.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I ran across your blog once because I mean the name grabbed me because I am a slob as well by nature.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, finally, somebody who's admitting to being a slob and just owning it, but not owning it, but you know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's so good.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Y'all look way cuter than I do.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I did go to the gym though, and I'm super proud of myself.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is better than either of us did.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: The only reason I'm cute is because I spent the entire day yesterday in the clothes I slept in.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was like, you know what?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: Today's a new day.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I need to do something different.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: She had a sick kid yesterday.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we played hooky, so that's why.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So no, it's fine.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, wait, I'm applauding your your workout.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: I had good intentions, but um, yeah, but you know, podcast took over, and that's all right.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's good.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: We're I'm just excited to get to talk to you.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: We got to meet in person just at the beginning, like a month ago now.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy that it's been a month at Declare.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: At Declare, yeah, yeah.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: They did this um, I don't know, what do they call it, a breakout session or something, or mastermind.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it really wasn't quite, I think, probably what anyone went into thinking it was gonna be, but there was a large group of people who were interested in podcasting.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you um and maybe like three or four other women, including myself, um, were actual podcasters.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we we were kind of, I don't know, I was coming to learn more, but instead we ended up teaching.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I kind of felt that way too.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, oh okay, yeah.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was good though to connect with people.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think it was it more ended up being um, I I think networking because from that, um, you know, a lot of those women we've connected further on, and like, oh well, I really love to share about your book.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I'm really excited to share, okay, because I mean home organization, all of that, we are in to the new year, and that is kind of like everyone's antsy, they've maybe put away their decorations or not, or dresses, and they are like ready for new fresh starts, and so it's like the top of our list.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: We want to dive in.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you are really one of like the top experts out there on this because you're speaking from experience.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't always like this, isn't natural.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: So because I don't know who all of my friends have met you before, I'd love it if you'd kind of start from the beginning and tell us your story and kind of go from there.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I'm Dana White, and I have a blog called a slobcomesclean.com.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's so clever.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so clever.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty self-explanatory.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a slob help me.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: This is what pops up.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I I started this blog as a practice blog uh in 2009.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, you went back a little while.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was never going to be my real blog.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a I used a fake name and everything.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was just kidding.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's curious.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people know me as Noni, um, which is what I called myself when I started.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why this is coming to mind.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: For anonymous.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just made it clever.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's great.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I started it is I really wanted to have a blog.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always wanted to be a writer.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was as soon as I knew what blogs were, I was like, oh my word, this is it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: I forgot to have this.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but I didn't start it for a year and a half after I found blogs because my house was such a total disaster.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew myself, I knew that it would be one more thing I would throw myself into and let my house just completely go.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, avoid the house.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then um I also, you know, I wanted to write about motherhood and all that, which I thought I was the only one.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, you know right.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: 2009.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, us and everybody.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, but I I really I know that your house is direct whether right or wrong is directly related to people's view of you as a mother.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And sure, I could not like I couldn't handle the thought of writing things that were good and true, and then having someone find out what my house looked like and throw all that away.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, there's you know, I've come a long way in all of that anyway, but that was my fear, and I just was like, I have to get my house under control first before I can do this thing.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: And um so it was right before my second child went to kindergarten.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was only gonna have one kid at home, and I was like, all right, well, this is it, this is the time I should start a blog.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: But God had not cured me of my messiness issue like I had asked him to do so many times.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I had literally prayed and begged God, please make me organized.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like please yes.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this thing that I absolutely could not stand about myself.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's I had begged God, please change me.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And he had not.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really honestly pretty angry.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I just said, you know, why?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was sitting in church, this was the day before my kid went to kindergarten, and I was like, why God have you not answered my prayer?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's this thing is keeping me from doing something that I knew God had placed as a desire in my heart.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I could not understand why he had not done this.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's when I heard God say, which I don't say that lightly, but yeah, he just spoke to me and said, right about that.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh that's so cool.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I dang it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, that's actually a really good idea, God.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: But but at the same time, I just assumed we were talking about something temporary.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like in my mind, okay, this is gonna be what I'll write about for three or four months, keep myself focused, learn about blogging, and then then I'll start my real blog.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just writing, yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I had no intention of anyone finding out that this was me.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: I did not even tell in the beginning for about a month, I didn't even tell my husband what I was doing.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so because I knew, I mean, I had tried everything and it had all failed.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started this.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just, you know, because I had made up this fake name, there was, you know, and I was writing to all these non-existent people on the internet, you know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: You were pretty real.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, there was nothing to lose.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: I had because the the name a slob comes clean, you know, which I'm thankful for, it is catchy.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but that is a horrible word.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I did not want to use that word.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: No one wants to identify themselves with that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, and and but that was the name that came to me.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't here, I wanted to be a writer, but I couldn't think of any other word to use until I'd already set up the blog and I felt like it was too late, you know.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I paid for that domain, darn it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: I know so it just once I had called myself that and the fact that I was writing anonymously, you know, I just stopped making excuses and I just started just going for it and just saying, okay, let me just be real about why it is that I'm doing the things I'm doing or not doing the things I'm not doing, and what am I doing that's not working?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And um anyway, so I I did start to gain readers.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that I didn't want readers, I just didn't want any readers that I knew personally.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think it's hard for most people too, because you I mean it's one thing to write to the faceless, nameless person, another to to have like some of your best friends who maybe didn't know this about you to go, what?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wait a minute.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hence your your fear earlier about writing about mom stuff with a really sloppy house.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so now you're maybe not so anonymous.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I was showing pictures, you know.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I was showing the actual before pictures.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's awesome.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't even tell anybody I knew for it, it was probably about two years before I started if it came up.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so funny.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because once my daughter went to kindergarten, um, at that point I was like, okay, you know, I'd had two years under my belt.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: God was showing me this is your real blog.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is actually what I had for you all along.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, my daughter went to kindergarten.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, at this point, I'm gonna turn it into a business.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Before that, I'd really held back because I didn't want to be, you know, distracted from my time with her.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's because it's hard to juggle a lot of that, right?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's and I'm not good.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm good at juggling in that I'm willing to let everything else fall except for the things I want to juggle right then.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh huh.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably most of it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's part of the thing about yeah, that leads to the slobbery.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, exactly.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's part of my problem, is I am able to super focus.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: But so I just was like, I'm not gonna let this take my focus away from her.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: But once she went to school and I started treating it like a job, you know, also when all your kids are in school, people start asking questions like, what are you doing?
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are you doing with your time?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to volunteer for this and this and this?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, no.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so at that point, God had really dealt with me and he had said, okay, this is the ministry I actually had for you all along.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're actually gonna do this, I need you to be honest about it, not just online, but I need you to be honest in real life.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was this, it was awful.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds awful.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a hard one for sure.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was a slow process.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, I would just, and even still, I mean, here we are.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: There are people in my life who don't really know what I do.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: They are like, oh, I I mean, now that I have books out, it's different, you know.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but especially before that, they'd be like, What?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or some people will find out, oh, I knew you had a blog, I just didn't know it was like a real, real thing.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't bring it up unless I have to.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I just I got up to I got to that point where I was like, okay, if somebody asks me specifically, what do you do?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna complain.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would never lie, but I would I was I am really good at avoiding.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know him and how.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of work your way around that conversation.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I still wait until they've asked, like, so what do you write about?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Until you ask me specifically, we'll just be generic.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know because the minute I tell somebody that, then they know my deep dark secret.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like they know the one thing that I managed to not tell anybody about for over 30 years, you know.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's um so it's really been a lesson from God and in in so many ways has helped me spiritually, you know, just to have that.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it does all tie together.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's kind of where I what I wanted to ask you is, you know, you said over 30 years, uh, was this your whole life?
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is this all you knew?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: What played into you know how you handled it in your own home?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so I was born messy.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's I we we all have a few of those.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Or at least one.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, this this was a lifelong struggle.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was the kid who I opened my locker and everything fell out.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, that's just that's just who I am.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, my mother now, she went probably about five or six years ago, she went to something, um, some kind of training on ADHD, and she was like, Yeah, pretty much every story they told was your stories from when you were growing up.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: Gotcha.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I've I mean, I've never been diagnosed except by lots and lots of readers.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, isn't that how most of our diagnosis happened?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because it it didn't affect me in school.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of it is I that that's part of what was my problem was I thought it was because that wasn't my focus.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought, well, it doesn't matter, you know, right now.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I care about.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm off doing kids stuff, I'm off doing teenager stuff, I'm off doing college stuff.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And someday when it actually matters to me, then I'll get this thing figured out.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I knew it was a struggle, but I had every confidence that at some point in my life I would figure it out.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I got married, I assumed that I would naturally magically you'll be clear a clean person.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I did.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because it was gonna matter to me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and like now I'll have a real exactly.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be the one in charge of the home.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's gonna matter.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that did not help at all.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I had kids, and I I mean, I I even I can remember having a conversation about, well, of course I'll get all this figured out once I'm a stay-at-home mom, you know, because what else will I have to do, right?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I know we were so naive, weren't we?
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: We had no idea.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, now I know that even people who have been organized their whole life, once they have kids, often struggle, a huge struggle.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, for sure.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just thought it was gonna be a magical cure, and it wasn't.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason was because I everything else in life, if I put my mind to it, I can figure it out.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: But this was that thing where I was like, okay, I am putting my mind to this, yes, and it is not working.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't understand, you know, what why it is that I can't seem to do what seems to come so easily to other people.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's through the blog, you know, that I've figured it out.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and part of what I've figured out is this will always be a struggle.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not something that there's a switch in my brain somewhere, I just have to find it.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: And once I switch that, then I'll be cured.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's uh this is a part of my personality, part of the part of me that I like, you know, that's one of the things is realizing that there is a direct relationship uh between creativity and these types of struggles.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like that and that only happened through the blog and people saying, Oh my goodness, I struggle with this too.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I was the only one.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mean, I get emails all the time from people saying, I thought it was just me.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that was me when I started.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: But when it when people started to say that they uh related to what I was saying, the common thread I saw in them was that they were creative, creative artistic types.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like I was a theater arts teacher.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of theater arts teachers who relate to what it is that I say.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's because we see the world differently and they're very project-minded.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, give me a play to put on with 250 people, and that is going to be organized like nobody's business.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well run, like a well-level machine.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: It has a planning phase and it has an implementation phase, and then it gets to be over.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the part I love.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's huge, yeah.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but housework is not that way, and so I treated my house that way.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: I kept, you know, cleaning it from top to bottom and then going, wow, I'm done.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I wasn't done, you know, and then it would just go back to being a total disaster.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just didn't understand that treating my house like a project was the biggest part of my problem.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so but once I accepted that that project brain that I have that I love and that makes me me is related to this same struggle, then that helped me accept that, okay, I don't have to feel like a failure because traditional organizing advice doesn't work for me.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to find something that does work for me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you said there, um, one of my sisters has followed you for a long time and learned so much.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but her big thing, and she even shared this the other day, and I I just had mentioned in a Voxer conversation with her, I'm like, I'm talking to Dana White, and she was like, Oh, I totally know who she is, and she was so excited.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um but she said, I think um you were the one who first taught her that idea of it being chores and different from a project because chores never finish, it's just something that you do.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that has and she is definitely an artist creative.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, like for her to look at it that way really framed uh her, you know, new like new thinking.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: And she was able to tackle and look at some of the the stuff around her house in such a different light.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was that was a big like turn on the light switch moment for her for sure.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're telling my story.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I could be, I am that person, uh been messy since I was born.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: My parents, like they would say clean your room, and I would just like, oh my gosh, shove everything under the bed.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they joke about where can I have this?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would eat cereal and then they would pull these bowls out and there would be mold in them, and it's just like, ew.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: But that's how I lived, and I didn't know what and I I have struggled or I married someone who was like a high order neat freak type.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh that has been our biggest, probably what we butted heads over.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I've said, I promise I'm trying.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'll try to, I was just telling somebody this the other day, like my kitchen counter, it just gathers clutter, and so I go in and I'll just stare at it and think, I don't know what to do with it.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll spend an hour shifting piles from one side of the counter to the other, like back and forth and back and forth.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like all this random stuff, and my brain doesn't sort random.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know, it's it's this crazy thing, but I'm also highly creative and I can super focus on a project, and it's I don't know how to explain it.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard to explain to people whose brains don't function this way.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: But um anyway, I'm excited to learn from you because I haven't quite mastered whatever the skills are they're gonna help me overcome.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't quite got those yet.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and two things you just said.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: One is it is like you're speaking a different language with somebody who doesn't think this way, you know, and I I feel like that's where that was a huge thing for me to come to the because in the beginning I was like, nobody take advice from me because people were as they would watch my what I was going through, they're like, okay, what should I do here and here?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, are you crazy?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: Who in the world would want cleaning and organizing advice from me of all people?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I resisted it for so long until I finally just accepted, okay, we those of us who struggle like this are speaking a different language than the people who generally talk about these things because they love it.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and so I am the person who, you know, I have had to figure it out on my own.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then I can tell people like that's my gift is not that I'm amazingly clean and organized.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: My gift is that I have taken the time to figure these things out.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Out and I ha and I'm able to explain it to people who don't understand the language of the organized people.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so important.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: That, you know, and so that's where I've gone, okay, yes, I will own this decluttering expert title that still makes me laugh every time I hear something.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm just like, okay, well, all right, then that's what I do.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: But um, and the other thing you said too is your husband thing.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for me has been, I mean, my own little personal thing for all of this is my husband, uh, we'd been married, no, I'm sorry.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing the blog about four or five years.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was full on into, you know, like owning this thing that I was doing.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and we we do this thing every anniversary.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think we might have missed this year, but anyway, um, we do this thing where we have this journal and like we um you know list things we've learned about each other that year.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And this was my idea, not his.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'll just tell you.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sweet.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's a great idea though.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And like the first year we did it, it we filled up pages and pages and pages, and now we're like funny.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what have you what have I learned about you?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just tell me?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: So about four years into the blog, he said, you know, I've realized, I guess, through your blog, that um you really do try.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's you know, that's a gift.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: That that you really are trying, and that that your goal is to do better, and that it's he he goes, Don't take this the wrong way, but but it's it's kind of like there's something actually wrong with you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes!
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: I would receive that.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: I would say, thank you.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: You finally figured it out.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: There's something broken or something in here.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, thank you.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because that was what I like that was the whole goal for me, you know.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, was not the whole goal, but I mean, like, that was the biggest gift I could get from this process was him actually understanding that there is just something different in the way my brain works.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do these things to annoy him.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't do these things to announce.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: You're not bent on ruining his world.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a lack of effort, right?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I have to say, he is the most understanding.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I could not have done what I do if he was not so laid back and easygoing about it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he just but the whole time, you know, when I wouldn't let him tell anybody what I was doing because I was so ashamed, he was just like, just kills me not to tell anybody.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so proud of what you're doing.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you crazy?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's so I love it.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's been a real um a journey for that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And another thing along those lines, like my favorite, favorite emails I get are from husbands who say, I understand my wife now.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is the main thing, is I get it now.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like I understand her and what she's seeing that I used to just think, how do you not see this?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's huge.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, and I think I like what you said that you're using a different language for people who need a different language because I've read, I don't know how many organizing books.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've read the Messi Motivator, I've read all the books for Messies, I've done all the things, and I've bought, I can't tell you how many containers.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I just need more containers, I think.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: I must that's all it is.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: I need more organizational thinking.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's not helping me to have now I have just empty stacks of containers.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, what do I do?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway, I love the way you put it in your containers, huh?
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the way you put it.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: It is a different language, I think.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I gosh, I just appreciate so much of what you're saying.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really really good.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: What was happening?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, what was happening with you at the two-year mark?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as far as your process, I mean, were you for two years kind of going figuring yourself out, or were you making such progress at that point that you were like, okay, now I have something?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm I've learned some things that I can now teach.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's good.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so for the first six months, I guess.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I started in August, and well, I guess it's lesson.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do math, I taught theater, just you know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's all right.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're not we're not counting, it's all right.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: But like August through December, um, I just like I didn't know what to do.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had tried every method out there and I didn't know what to do.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: The thing I knew was that all of my friends whose homes were under control never had dirty dishes in their sink.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like their their kitchens were always under control.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I honestly did not know how they did it.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was like, I don't know.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just started doing the dishes, and this is like day one.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I don't know what to do, but I'm just gonna do my dishes and hopefully figure out along the way how it is that people keep them doing.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do this on a regular basis.
• 26:45
  unknown: Right.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the thing.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started doing the dishes, and then after about a week of every single day, for one thing, I saw that doing the dishes was not what I'd always thought was doing the dishes.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I always thought doing the dishes was like a five-hour task, you know, because I always waited until every dish was dirty in the whole house.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you have no more and you needed paper plates.
• 27:07
  unknown: Right, exactly.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so, um, but when I did them every single day, even though that made no sense to me, because I was like, why waste my time on just a few little dishes?
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then I changed my, I was like, oh, so if I do them every day, it's hard.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: It takes me like 10 or 15 minutes and not five hours, you know.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I call it dishes math.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, one day's worth of dishes takes 10 or 15 minutes, two days takes an hour, it doesn't just go up, you know, that amount because now you have to shift things and move things and all that.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't fit in your dishwasher.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Stuff is glued down to the plate, right?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you wait three days, then it's back to the five hours, you know.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's that um that's that thing.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I started doing that.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then like after the first week, I didn't have all this figured out, but I was like, okay, I don't feel like I'm swimming through jello when I do my dishes anymore.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's not this weird thing.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm gonna add something.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what to add.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I just would add a new, I call them non-negotiables every week.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it it just kind of turned out that after a week of doing something, I was like, oh, it doesn't feel weird anymore to do this.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I was doing it without thinking about it, because that I always thought if I was gonna make this a habit, like everybody talks about habits, then I'll just be a robot and like do it and go, oh my word, how are my dishes clean?
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even remember doing that, you know.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's so funny.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I wish but I thought that's what people were talking about when they talked about habits, just like grabbing candy is a habit, you know, and I don't realize I did it.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um I wish dishes were like that.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I can't believe I just ate 10 pieces of candy.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, look at the dishes.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be great.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought it was gonna work the same.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: But so I just I added non-negotiables, and the thing that shocked me was just adding non-negotiables, like just adding little piddly daily tasks.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: My house was under control in a way that it had never been before.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, oh, so it's the daily stuff that makes a bigger difference.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the beginning of, you know, it's taken all this time for me to put these things into words, sure, but that is the me realizing daily stuff has more of an impact than big cleaning sessions, you know.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I started at the end of, you know, in December, I was like, you know, it's the new year, and I don't think I need to just keep adding non-negotiables.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, eventually I've boiled them down to four non-negotiables, you know, that make a huge, huge impact in um bigger impact in my home than I ever thought.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then I started working on, you know, figuring out ways to work in the big cleaning jobs, like the bathrooms and the, you know, all the stuff that I used to think was the basis for everything is actually not.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's the daily stuff that's the basis, you know.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I added those things, not that I wasn't doing them before, but I was doing them randomly.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I figured out, you know, I assigned a day of the week to those things, and that helped me with my time passage awareness disorder, which is what I call it.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um I like that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: That you definitely need to train records.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds all official.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I the way I describe it is like, you know, how when somebody says, um, oh, it's you know, one year ago today, such and some big huge thing happened, like, you know, City Hall burned down or whatever, and you're like, that was that was a whole year ago.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like it was yesterday.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the same thing.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if I was gonna clean my toilets, it was such a big deal that I would go forever thinking, oh, I just did that.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like it just happened.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, yeah, I had to find some way.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden I would like go, wait a minute.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was before such and such.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my goodness, you know.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that was how I, you know, it worked that kind of stuff in.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then decluttering made such a huge impact.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: So it was about the two-year mark.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: For one thing, I s I had gone to a blogging conference after the first year.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: That I um that I had been blogging, um, thinking that I was gonna be learning stuff for when I started my real blog, you know.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, the real one.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and there talking to other bloggers who were like, um, this is your real blog.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like they they were saying that long before I got a line.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they couldn't.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: They were just like, this is it, this is you, you're fine, just accept it.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, no, no, because it's not what I want.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I went back um to the same conference another year later.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd been blogging two years, and at that point was, you know, God was also working in me, saying, This is your real thing.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and I went to a session where they talked about, you know, you don't have a blog, you have a message.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, what's my message?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just clear to me immediately that my message was hope, not not a perfect house, not how to have a perfect house, but I can tell you how to have hope for your home.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a blogging friend who was sick one day, and we'd like been in a group together, and um, so we knew about each other's blogs, but she'd never like really, really known it.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, she was sick one day and like started reading through my whole blog, and she just turned into a cheerleader saying, You have got to write a guide.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to write a guide.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, that's crazy.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's not the plan.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I wrote my first ebook, um, probably about two and a half years in.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because I it it came to me one day.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, I can't write a guide to having a perfect house, but I can write a guide to going from being completely overwhelmed to okay, I think I can do this.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which honestly, steps.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so that is, you know, and I that one was called 28 Days to Hope for Your Home.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's included at as an appendix in my um my first traditionally published published book.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: So it still exists, it's just there.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's in How to Manage Your Home Without Losing Your Mind?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's awesome.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's great.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, so it's like two for the price of one because I want that 28-day thing.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think I need the whole thing.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have that book.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's on my I'm gonna get that one ASAP.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Seriously.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is I can't even tell you.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, carry on.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you wrote your first book.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like we interrupted.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: We did.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna edit this, by the way.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think I did it, but we're gonna edit this part.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: So she was talking about her book.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: She wrote her book.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: That she that her friend was uh championing her.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: You went to a conference and then your sick blogger friend.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so yeah, my sick blogger friend.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I that writing that ebook, you know, I wrote it.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, every single thing I've done in this business, which is kind of strange because I really don't write about spiritual things, but every single step of the way has been, okay, God, is this what you want me to do?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he just keeps saying, yep, that's it.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I knew that writing this 28 days to hope for your home was the next step that he had for me.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I didn't know how people people, I thought this is people are either gonna love it or hate it, which they did, either love it or hate it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, gosh.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But um, but it was like it was it was a shifting point for me of realizing, oh, I do have something valuable to teach other people.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it really is helpful for me to to teach them how to go from overwhelmed to um, you know, to to feeling like, okay, I can do this.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's that's really just grown from there, which has um grown, you know, my overall online community, which then has turned into traditionally published books and and all that.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think so often that's what the Lord is inviting us to is that because he's central.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I believe that that's what he wants, he's central to all we do.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so when he helps us find a measure of victory in an area of our lives, I think that we're we should feel compelled to share it in some level.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that may not mean a book and it may not mean a blog, yeah, but it can be one-on-one coffees and or even helping our own kids or some of our, you know, our neighbors.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: That if we, you know, for you, you found a measure of victory through baby steps, and then the Lord gave you the gift and the ability to articulate it and you know, print it out in a 28-day step, which you know, that alone, that's I mean, that's really huge to be able to just think in 28 days that I can find some freedom in this area of my life.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's huge.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I I you know, as far as God uh calling this, I mean, I here, you know, my big, my big issue in the beginning, my big frustration, honestly, with God not removing this thing from me was that I thought, you're keeping me from using these gifts that I want to give you.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, over time, God has just said, um, I gave you those gifts.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's why they're called gifts.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I hate to give it and what what he wanted me to give him was the one thing that I couldn't even imagine why he would want it.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you even want this?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you use this?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that doesn't make any sense.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's it's been, I believe, so much more freeing to write about what I've written about.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's been um, you know, I I always wanted to be a missionary, and I was a missionary before I got married.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and God dealt with me a couple of years in just through my own per personal Bible study, not anything to do with this, on um, you're still a missionary, like wherever you are, you're a missionary.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like in your little podunk, Texas town, you are a missionary.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: It may not be dramatic when people ask, ooh, where do you live?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get to say, you know, Thailand like I used to.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now I say where I live, and people are like, oh, okay.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um but he was just like, you're a missionary.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and I I the blog I have is so much more fulfilling to me with that desire in my heart, because you know, I have readers who are not Christian.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like if I would have, if I had started the blog I wanted to start, my readers would all be Christian, which is great.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's fine.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, I love the fact that I have these relationships with people who are, you know, I mean, you know how it is.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you have a blog, people feel like you're their best friend.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I love these people.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I have this day-by-day ongoing relationship with people who may not have a Christian friend in their lives anywhere.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, if that's yeah, if if that's what God has for me to break down for, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, you know, this idea of what Christians are like and they get to see inside of my heart and know me, you know.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: So like I have an ebook that's free um called Giving God the Worst of Me.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I specifically wrote it because I wanted to share the spiritual side of things, but that's not, you know, my cleaning blog is not the place for that.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I wanted to to have that, you know, and I put it out there and I was kind of nervous.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, within hours, I had several emails um from, you know, people saying, you know, I am an atheist, but I read it because wow, you know, we have this relationship and thank you for writing this.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it meant a lot to me.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's amazing.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that, you know, it it's it's been a really um it's been it's been so satisfying for me to just give up and just say, okay, God, you do what you have planned, and let me just follow that, you know, and that's my continual prayer is what do you have next for me?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: Are you sure this is what you want to keep need to keep talking about?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um right, yeah, totally.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: But he took it, he took your yes, he took your willingness, and he took your surrender and vulnerability, and he's turned it into this amazing ministry, really.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even though you wouldn't call it a ministry or you know, explicitly Christian, that's what he's done through you, which is so beautiful.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's so, like I said, there's so much freedom and honesty.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And even even people who don't struggle with this, I have a lot of people who read because they say, you know what, I have my own struggles.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this isn't my struggle, but everybody has a struggle.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And just, you know, modeling that just that depth of relationship that's possible when you're just honest about things and you stop trying to pretend and and you know, and and honestly, God has given me this thorn in my side.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just I relate so much to Paul with that because um, you know, he he just wants me to remember it is him, not me.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's him, not me.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's never, ever me, any of this.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And even though that's my prayer, he also reminds me of that, you know, and I I would love to talk about the things I'm good at.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um Right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time, um, you know, that's that's my pride, you know.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I would much rather tell you all the things I can do well.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, God's just put in this automatic thing where part of what I do for a living is talking about my thing I don't like about myself, my thing that I don't feel any pride over.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a that's amazing.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and something you're still working on.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so always, yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: So people um who are listening, they're inspired, they're encouraged because they realize, okay, I'm not the only one.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um they'll obviously want to, you know, go on your website and check out your blog and all this stuff.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: And you have a podcast and they'll want to get your book for sure.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um but what could they do as they wait for the book and and all of that, that they could maybe start today on that project that feels so daunting or the chore that feels so daunting.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: How you know, what are just some practicals that they could implement after they listen?
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm gonna talk about decluttering specifically.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'll just say my next book that comes right, right, and my next book that comes out into February is about specifically decluttering.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't know that.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so that's exciting.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's gonna be on that Amazon.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's my that's my biggest challenge, I think.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and it's January right now, right?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: So next month already, can you believe it?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: So um, but right now, you know, pre-orders, you can get a little course that will take you through some basic decluttering stuff just to go ahead and get started now.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: But um, my main thing to tell people to get started is to give yourself permission to just declutter.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you look at that space that's just covered in random stuff, and you think, oh, this happens again and again.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to figure this out.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that right now.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just say, I'm just gonna declutter because I used to think I need to get organized, which meant going out to the store and buying all the containers, like you said.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then by the by the time I came home, I was like, Well, I'm tired now.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I need to go eat something.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm tired.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: So all that stuff just sat by the door and it was more clutter, you know.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: So just tell yourself I'm not gonna solve any problems today.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just going to declutter.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that mindset shift really makes a huge difference and gives me permission to just go ahead and get started.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing to do first, just go ahead and get started.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, but how do you get started?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, start, okay, so you look at the overall mess.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: The goal is to reduce the visual mess, which therefore reduces that feeling of being overwhelmed.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you do that by doing the easy stuff first.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Stuff that doesn't require any kind of decision making or anything.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the easiest of the easy stuff is the trash.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: So grab a black trash bag.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: It needs to be black so the people in your house don't see what you're putting in.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: That is smart.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Then they don't grab it and rescue it.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: This is very important.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Even though it's total trash.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so grab the black trash bag and just start throwing away the trash.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Just identify what trash you can see easily, either on the top of the pile or you can just see it visually right away and start throwing that away.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then um do the easy stuff, which is if something has an established home somewhere else, go ahead and take it there.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: So things that don't require me to go, oh, should I keep this or not?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh yeah, well, of course, this is this needs to go in this room.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: These are our fingernail clippers, um, and uh, we already know where they go.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever, you know, you just go ahead and take it there.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because that's easy.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't require any, you know, mental decisions or whatever.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now, real quick here, because this is where I think I get stuck, do you collect those things?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: All at once, or do you literally do them one at a time?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: One at a time.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where you're getting your workout in too.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: So here's here is like where I completely depart from traditional organizing advice.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I ideally it makes sense on paper that I would put those things into little piles, like this stuff's going to go to the garage, this stuff's going to go to the kids' room, this stuff's going to go here.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my life doesn't work out like it goes on paper.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's just it's just not how it is.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have three kids, I'm abnormally distractable anyway.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: So many less.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: The one guarantee in my life is I'm going to get distracted in the middle of a project.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, what I used to do was make the little piles, and then I would get distracted.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I came back, maybe an hour or maybe a week later, um, those piles were all morphed into one big pile outside the space where I'd been working anyway.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And all my work had been undone, plus it looked even worse than it did before, which is most people's number one decluttering frustration.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then the kids go through it, yeah, or the husband and then forget it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I started saying, okay, and here's my first decluttering question.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: I only have two, but the first one is um if I was looking for this item, where would I look for it first?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not just um, where should I look for it, but actually like my first answer.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you ask me where are the fingernail clippers, what's the first thing I'm gonna say?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and take it there right now, because the thing that happens is even though it seems like that would take longer, um, which I guess if everything went perfectly, it would, um, it seems like it would take longer, except that it when I get distracted, I've made progress.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, period.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I like that.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, for sure.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: So there's fewer things in that space than there were before.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of freedom in that.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then keep boxes, you know, a lot of times I will see, oh, you know, have a keep box, have a whatever.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, no.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have keep I have keep boxes that we moved to this house.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: I have those too.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: I have them too, and they're full of random stuff, and now I don't want to look at it.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're in my closet.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the only the only supplies that I have are my black trash bag, a donatable donate box, which means when I put something in there, I've made a final decision because the whole box itself is gonna leave my house with the stuff in it.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not gonna have to go back through it again.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And um and my feet.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like those are the only things I need.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do think fancy.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just a working enable body.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think that's huge.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that right there, like we can go after this and go do that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we can practice totally.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and like, you know, my next book is called Um Decluttering at the Speed of Life.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's great.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's the goal.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's the thing is you can you can work for five minutes, or you can work for five hours, or you can work for five days.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you have, if you do this, you're only gonna make progress.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to get yourself into a situation where then life happens and oh my goodness, we're worse off than we were before.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like whatever time that you have, you can make actual legitimate decluttering progress, which decluttering progress is just stuff leaving your home, period.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's all it means.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's success.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh this is so great.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I'm excited, Dana.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think people, I mean, one for sure they're gonna want to come find you and your new, your your last book and then your uh newest book that's coming out next month.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm excited about the course too, to think that you know, they could pre-order the book, so maybe it won't be in their hands till February, but they can get going with this course that you've put together.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then these action points, and you have a ton of great stuff on your website too that people could really clean from.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's awesome.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'll all of our friends can find you at, and we've talked about it, a slob comes clean, totally original and the same that it's been for what, nine years now?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, nine years.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that is awesome.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is so great.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love what you're doing.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for you know being willing to share with us and um being faithful to really what the Lord has called you to, even when you didn't want to.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a beautiful example for us all to learn from because he might be inviting us into something that's really, really wonderful, but that first step might be a little bit painful and difficult to even acknowledge.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it it can you can look at it and go, that makes no sense.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, exactly.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: But but how many times in the Bible did that happen?
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a long time over.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and the people that God does stuff with are the ones who are like, are you sure, God?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: But okay.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, story in my life.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Dana, and congratulations on the second book.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll be looking forward to, I'm sure, seeing tons more from you in the future.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having me.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've enjoyed this thoroughly.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have a great rest of the day.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you too.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to tackle your closets now or maybe just go out there and clean your kitchen sink?
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Dana's methods are really simplistic, but they're actionable, which is why you can finally find success on getting through all your junk.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: I so loved hearing her story firsthand, and I know she can identify with all of us who are struggling with the housekeeping chores, and she really has fantastic, easy methods.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you can find all the ways to connect with Dana in our show notes and how to buy any of her books.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, while you're there, would you be so kind as to take a quick minute and leave a five-star review for this podcast and then share your favorite episode with your friends?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: We love it when you guys tell others about the Simply Home Hearted podcast.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, we always love to hear from you on the Simply Home Hearted Podcast and we welcome interview recommendations or books, ideas, anything that you would like to hear about from us.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: Just comment on our Instagram or Facebook page with your ideas.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: We always respond.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: And hey, if you haven't yet heard about the Enneagram, well the next two weeks will be your chance to hear everything you need to get started on your Enneagram journey.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: Beth McCord, who is also known as your Enneagram coach, gave us almost two hours of fascinating information, which is why we're doing the two-part episode.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I have found this process to finding my Enneagram number so empowering and a lot of fun.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: I promise it's not just another personality test that's gonna put you in a box and just tell you what it is that you do.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: It actually helps you understand why you do what you do.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Helps you better understand who you are, how to better connect with others, and grow closer to God.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: So until then, we hope you'll be joining us as we discover more ways to live a simply wholehearted life.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Unplugged, purposeful, and intentional.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time,