Latest / B 4EVA Kool "Race A Motorcycle" Podcast / Rexy sits down with Davin from AAR to explore his journey through cars, karting & SIM racing

Transcript

Rexy sits down with Davin from AAR to explore his journey through cars, karting & SIM racing · B 4EVA Kool "Race A Motorcycle" Podcast

1:45
Listen to the Be Forever Cool podcast.
1:46
My name is Rex 45 and I'm fortunate tonight to have Davin
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from Apex Advisor on the show. Welcome to the show man.
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How you doing tonight? Doing alright, how are you?
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And I can't complain, but I could.
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But you know, just. Just.
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Staying busy trying to, you know, stay creative and, you
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know, just keep chasing that creativity.
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Some days you get it, some days you miss it, but you know,
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chasing that. So welcome to the show, man, And
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let's let's just jump into it, man.
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You know, normally, you know, we're talking about two wheels
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on the show, but I've been checking your stuff out online
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and you know, I'm a car guy at heart as well.
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You know, at at at a very, I think middle school, I wanted to
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race cars. So that was that was that was my
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my first love and it still is. I mean, I still love cars.
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I love motorcycles, but cars is is it's like second nature for
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me, which is pretty good. So let let's talk about, you
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know, how you got into cars and you know, and you know, you
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know, just talk about how you got into cars.
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Did you start just, you know, making them go fast?
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I started doing stuff or how? How do you get into it?
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I think everybody was interested in in the cars as a kid.
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And so I think everyone has that story of like they played with
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cars as a kid. They were the one who identified
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cars as they went by, yadda yadda, right?
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But when I was 1617, I was able to get my own first car.
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I had saved some money and my parents would save some money
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until we ate on a car together. It was a Hyundai Tiburon,
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Tiburon coupe and I hit a lot of stuff.
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What this is terrible, right? Just like curbs and and other
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things. And I would go to like car meets
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with my friends because I was excited I had a car.
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So I would go to these Hyundai meets and whatever.
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And I was frustrated that I was like, man, I really suck at
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this. Like this is really terrible.
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I wish I could do it better. And so as a birthday gift, they,
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one of the members of the club got me a free entry to an auto
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cross, which I didn't know existed.
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And for like those who aren't familiar.
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So auto cross is a club style event where you're basically
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going through obstacle course of cones, the timed event, solo car
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drive by yourself and you basically weave through cones
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for car control and you get time penalties if you hit cones.
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And I was allowed to get that too.
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I got lost. I had no idea where I was going.
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Like, you know, I was the guy who put a cone on my car and
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said, hey, I'm new. I don't know what I'm doing, but
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I don't want to get better at it.
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But I didn't care. I was having fun.
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So I started going to events like every weekend.
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So I was like, I know that I might be terrible, but everyone
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here must have started out terrible at some point.
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So I'm just going to keep going and eventually figure it out.
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Like if I could just do like 1/4 of the course good this one
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time, that'd be good. And then I'll just be bad for
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the rest of it. And then later I'd be good at
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half of it and then I'd be good at the whole thing, right?
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And the course changes all the time.
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So you start to kind of notice patterns of how the courses were
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constructed and how people would go through them.
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I've never been scared to ask questions.
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So when people are good at something, I will follow them
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around and just be like, tell me, tell me how you did that,
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right? And I would sit in people's cars
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and Co drive with them and be like, would you take me on one
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run and let me see how you're driving so I could just see how
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it's supposed to be done. And I would start asking
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questions like, how did you know to do that?
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Like how did you get the car to do that?
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Like when I got in the car, it wouldn't do that.
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How do you know? Yada, yada, yada, right.
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And eventually I started learning from people who were
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teaching me. So the way I've always improved
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my skill is I teach people what I what I know.
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And then when they ask me a question that I don't know, it's
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a new topic for me to go find out so I can find out the answer
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for that. Right, Right.
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Right. And so I, yeah, I started as an
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autograph coach. So.
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Yeah. Nice.
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I was going to say yeah, I I mean, I think not similar
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background in the sense of but I got my license at 16 as well, 16
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1/2. I had a Honda Accord and you
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know, two months later I ran into a pole racing on, on on the
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streets and, you know, fixed it, started racing again.
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I mean, I, I like, I'll sell people if, if you look like you
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wanted to race, I was racing you.
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If you, you're an old lady and you were trying to get it.
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You know what I mean? That that kind of thing.
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And I switched to a, a Volkswagen, Volkswagen GTI 16
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valve. And you know, as long as those
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cars, I didn't at the time I didn't know how I didn't, I
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didn't know anything about Volkswagen really, other than
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one of them beat me when I was in my Honda.
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So I wanted one. Right.
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So I want that now, yeah. And.
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And that car, you know, brought connected me with so many
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people, one person who is a long life Rambo as a mechanic and he
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got me into autocross as well. And and so, you know, doing that
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and, and having fun doing that for you getting, you know, being
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1618, give or take the age and getting into it.
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Was that something that you knew about that was happening?
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Was it normal? Where did you grow up?
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And was that something normal? You were just fortunate that
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somebody knew about it and connected you.
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No, I was just fortunate. So I used to live in Seattle, up
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in Washington state, and I don't come from a car background like
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a car family at all. My parents see cars as
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appliances, right? And so I always joke that to
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them, cars are like cell phones for me, right?
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Like you can tell me a bunch of features about a cell phone and
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I'm like, does it make a phone call?
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It's going to connect to the Internet.
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I could give them, right? Well, my parents are the same
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way about cars. So I just was naturally curious.
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And so I would go to these clubs and just ask a bunch of
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questions. I was like, you know, how are
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you guys getting better at this car thing?
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Like at least how are you keeping your cars not being
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damaged and hitting stuff? Like there's got to be some
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place we can go. And you know, I didn't mind
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looking stupid because I didn't, it wasn't very good.
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So of course I'm going to look stupid.
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Like that's fine. You know, if you go enough
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times, you're not the worst after a while.
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So you just keep going and eventually you're better than
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somebody, right? And so I would go and I would
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just be like, OK, my goal is to not be last, right?
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So I would just go to not be last.
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And I would drive around and I would, I'm a big nerd.
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So I would take a notebook and I'd write down something that I
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learned or something that confused me and I'd pretty much
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just work on that until the next auto cross and eventually.
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For you, was it like, I mean, were you modifying your cars as
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well along the way? Yeah, I was.
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Yeah, I mean. To like like.
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No to the to the range of family all throughout.
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I modified my car regardless if they wanted me to or not, right?
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It was a thing that I really enjoyed doing.
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And I my car would leave stock and then come back with an
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exhaust. And then my car would leave
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stock and then come back lowered and my car would leave stock and
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come back with wheels. I worked as a dishwasher at a
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restaurant near my house so I could make money to work on my
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car. And, you know, my parents and I
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always had this joke that like, well, you can do what you want
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with your own money. So I went and earned my own
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money and put it into my car because it was my money.
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So there you go, right? And in my mind, I thought of
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racing as more of like insurance to keep my car safe because the
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way I thought about it was like, everyone's got a car, but no one
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talks about driving and no one knows how to drive.
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And these things go fast and they can be really dangerous.
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And so wouldn't you want me to go get training on how to keep
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my car safe and keep me safe and be safe?
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And like extreme situations like if I'm sliding on ice or
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whatever, like how do I know the conditions are bad if no one
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teaches me how to look at conditions?
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Things like, you know. And you touch a good point on,
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on safety and how about, and you know, like I'm from Jamaica
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originally and they're the, the driving test is crazy.
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A lot of other countries, the driving testing is very, it's
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crazy. There's a lot of information, a
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lot they expect you to learn how to do, and so you can be a
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better driver. And I, you know, I grew up in
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Boston, so I can only speak for my experience there.
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But like getting your license is just making it around the block.
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Right. America is LAX, dude, very LAX.
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It's like, can you read the signs?
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Can you stop at lights? Can you read like can you get
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through intersections and can you make it around the block?
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Like they barely took you anywhere, right?
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So we had in our, in Washington, you had this minimum requirement
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to get your license from your learner's permit at 16 where you
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need to have like 50 hours of driving with somebody, right?
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So my my ground, my grandmother, I used to have her car as my
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first car and it was a tip around too.
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Ironically, we like 10 days for some reason.
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And so I drove my grandmother to like running errands and like
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back and forth to school to pick up my hours for my license.
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And then I got like the minimum requirement was 50 and I got
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like 300 because like, I really wanted to be prepared.
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And when I went, when I went in there and I gave them this
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notebook of all the hours I logged, like the lady like
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rolled her eyes and just like put the notebook on the side of
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the counter. And I was like, whatever, you
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really didn't need all that. And then just kind of moved me
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on And I'm like, what do you mean?
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I thought I was supposed to be prepared for this thing.
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It's not that big deal. And then when I did my license
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test, it was like, oh, can you drive around the block?
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Can you parallel park? And they had me parked behind a
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bunch of cars that I could have parked between.
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It was taking. They didn't even test me.
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They were just like, can you not hit things for 10 minutes?
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Yeah. And I was like, OK, no.
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I I was pretty bad. I had driving at the school but
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I had a car before I had my license.
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I used to drive my car to the school.
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Oh, yeah, yeah, That's for sure. Well, my, my grandmother, when I
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had my permit, that's how I would just, you know, I would
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drive to school and then we would switch and she would drive
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home, Right. And so that's how I learned
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something. You know, she would do basic
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things when I was little, as you know, she would have me back the
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car out of the garage and, like, drive to the end of the block,
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Right. Right.
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And then, you know, she would walk down, like, maybe down to
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blocks, and I'd have to go get her.
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And then she'd have me drop down, like, around the street.
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And I'd go like, just little bits a little bit at a time.
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And then eventually she'd be like, OK, now you're going to
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drive to school. So I would drive to school.
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And it was much better than how my parents would do it, where
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they would just yell at me all the time.
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So I was not very receptive to that.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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I was fortunate that my dad didn't teach me well.
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My friends taught me how to drive so I was even worse
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because we're just hooligans and but we both love speed and and
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for me after my first accident I realized like I don't really
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know how to drive that good. Yeah, that was me, too.
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After my first big accident, I was like, I messed that up.
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Like, I don't even know what I did.
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The joke I always tell is when I was in high school, I was
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driving home from school dance with a friend.
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Yeah. And of course we were driving
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too fast. And I was driving around this
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off ramp and I lifted around the off ramp.
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And so there is a, a car technique called lift off
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oversteer where you lift off the gas and the rear goes light and
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the car goes around. And so we're going too fast and
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the car whips around and I have no idea what's happening.
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I just figured I would just do the opposite of whatever I did
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to cause the problem. So I just jump back on the gas
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again. And like ironically in a front
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wheel drive car, that's what you're supposed to do.
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But I had no idea that's what would fix it.
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I just was like, well, what I did was bad.
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Just, it will either fix it or make it worse.
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OK, back on gas, right? And so I, you know, save the car
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and we drive away and my friend's like, Oh my God, like,
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how'd you do that? And I'm like, I don't know.
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And that question bugged the crap out of me, like the rest of
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the night, right? Because I was like, I don't know
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how. I don't know what happened and I
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don't know how to prevent that from happening again.
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Like, I was just minding my own business and all of a sudden my
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car started sliding. Like, what if it happens again?
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Like, right, right, right. So then I started looking up
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books and asking questions and kind of digging into that stuff
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because I wanted to just make sure that like my car wasn't
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broken. No, right some.
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People just think they're just a natural driver and just like,
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yeah. I couldn't do it again.
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If you asked me, I have no idea what I did.
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Like. Oh my God, right.
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And that's how I started getting into learning more about driving
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and more about coaching and other things like that.
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The other thing that kind of got to me was that people would
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constantly give me what I call rhetoric and I don't like
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rhetoric. So they would be like, they
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either have it or you don't, You just need to know.
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And I was like, I don't understand how you can tell me
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about like sports like basketball or golf or other
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things that you've done and you can give me really good detail
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about that. But I asked you about how to
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drive a car and you just give me some bullshit like response,
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right? Like to me that wasn't helpful.
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That just told me that you didn't know, not that it's not
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possible to do. And so I was like, I need to
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fine, who knows, right? Is it also possible that, you
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know, some of these folks could just can't explain how they do
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it? Because for me, a lot of the
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stuff I learned was just intuitive, not intuitive.
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It was just my curiosity and like baby steps, but I couldn't
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explain how I did it. But I just, it was like I can
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just feel what the car is feeling.
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Yeah, that's a lot of what it was like.
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As I started coaching more people and kind of got deeper
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into coaching and worked with a lot of folks, you started to
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realize like they weren't doing out of malice.
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It was just a lack of knowledge of being able to communicate
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what was happening, right? They would help you if they
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could, but they couldn't. And that's, that's OK.
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Like that was fine, but that wasn't a good answer, right?
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Right. And so I was like, OK, there's,
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there's got to be a pattern to this thing.
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It's just a vehicle. Like there's some controls and
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you make the controls do a thing and the vehicle responds to the
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controls. I just need to figure out what
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happens when I use the controls in a certain way to make the
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vehicle do a thing. OK, OK, right.
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And so I started with autocross and then would start to like
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every time I would spin the car, every time I would make a
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mistake, I would just ask somebody what I did.
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And I'd have other, you know, coaches ride with me and be
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like, why did that happen? Like, why did I spin out there?
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And they would start to teach me about, you know, weight transfer
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and all the basics that you like to learn.
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And then as I started learning, I would teach my friends who
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were like in the novice category to get them up to speed of what
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I knew. And so, as you know, over the
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years, as I coach, what I always tell people is, you know, my, my
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goal is to make you faster than me by teaching you everything
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that I know. And you know, I'm not threatened
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by you being quicker than me because if you end up being
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quicker than me and then I know there's more I need to learn in
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that area. And I focus my attention there,
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like steel, sharp and steel, right?
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So I was always motivated to be like, everyone, come, let me
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teach you what I know. Let me let me help you, let me
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help you. And that also then would
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reinforce concepts for me because you talk to a lot of
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people about the same things and they would ask a lot of
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questions. And sometimes you get the same
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question repeatedly. And you're like, OK, either A,
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I'm not explaining that very well or BI don't understand it.
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Right, Right. Let me start to figure out how
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to make it clearer, make it right.
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So let's back up a little bit. So do you drive standard?
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Yeah. Yeah, all my cars are amazing.
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I mean, it was one of those ones where like I started actually on
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an automatic car and one day I was like, that's stupid.
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I have read so much about how manual works.
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I just know. So one day I just bought a Miata
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and had to drive it home. I had a friend of mine, I had a
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friend of mine just come get me and we just drove and got the
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car and I said, well, I got to get it home and figured it out
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on the way home, right? And then I have a drift stick
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and I just went from there because I was like, I know what
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all the controls do. I have, you know, stacks of
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magazines since I was a kid about how cars work.
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So I know what everything does. I just need to sit there and
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figure it out for a while. So I just bought a cheat me out
16:07
and drove it until I got home. So, yeah.
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So how so you know, how long were you doing auto cross before
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you switch to karting? I'm not switch to add karting.
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And, and then also before you started teaching, let's talk
16:20
about like, I mean, I know a little bit about auto across.
16:23
I, I did it, you know, like I said, 1819 and, and this is back
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in the early 90s. So it's a lot, I'm pretty sure
16:30
it's a lot different now. But also just just talk about is
16:35
it, is it is it competition? Is it more like doing a track
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day? Were you just out there
16:39
practicing or is it more like a, or is it like club racing?
16:43
You're also racing. So yeah, yeah, you know, before
16:46
you got into the teaching. Let's just hear a little bit
16:48
more about your your on track experience.
16:51
No, for sure. So I guess we'll break this into
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3 categories. There's the auto cross time,
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there's the rental karting time, and then there's a competition
16:59
karting time. And they were all dramatically
17:01
different experiences. So when I was auto crossing,
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other people were competing, but I didn't have any money except I
17:08
ran largely in time only because I would show up with like all
17:11
season tires and on a with a very vague car that didn't fit
17:15
into a class and not by the way I wanted to because I just want
17:18
to do what I want. So you couldn't put me in like I
17:21
think I was in D street prepared, which made no sense,
17:24
right? So I'm going up against like WR
17:25
XS and other things like there's just no way, right?
17:27
Even packs, there's just no way. So I ran time only and just went
17:32
and got reps. So I would enter both classes.
17:34
Normally they have a morning split and afternoon split.
17:36
And then the thing with auto cross is it's a single run
17:38
thing. So you get depending on how many
17:40
people enter will depend on how many runs you get.
17:43
Got you. So sometimes you get 3,
17:44
sometimes you get 4, sometimes you get a lot if there's nobody
17:46
there, right. And so I would try to, yeah, go
17:48
ahead. Yeah.
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I was gonna say and, and correct me if I'm wrong, it's a time
17:54
thing. So you're on the track by
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yourself for that time, so. Yeah, you're on the track by
17:58
yourself for that time. Exactly time, essentially.
18:01
Exactly right. And so I would I would go to
18:03
popular events so I could see a bunch of different cars driving
18:06
and I would go to not popular events so I could get seat time
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because when there weren't that many entrances I could do a lot
18:10
of runs right. So I did that for a while, but I
18:13
found that I really wasn't motivated to be really
18:16
competitive at that thing because it's not that I had a
18:19
problem with auto cross. I have a lot of really good
18:20
friends who are auto crossers and they have really great cars.
18:22
It was just, I didn't feel the same competitive need as they
18:26
did in a single time trial thing.
18:28
I liked racing people, I liked competing with other people.
18:32
And so I, I did that for a number of years.
18:34
I did, I, you know, it's the only seat time I could get for a
18:37
long time. And so I did like I acted as an
18:39
instructor there and kind of helped out there.
18:41
But I had a buddy of mine that I auto crossed with that invited
18:45
me to an indoor go Kart shack. And it's just a fun walk in kind
18:49
of thing. But he was like, you should
18:51
come. And I was like, this is stupid.
18:52
He's like, you've never done it. So how can you say that's stupid
18:54
at such a point, right. So I went there and he kicked my
18:58
butt. And I was so mad about it that I
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went four races a day for a month.
19:04
So I did 120 races that month to practice so I could kick his
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butt because I was so tired of losing to people that I was
19:11
like, no, no, no, we're not doing this.
19:13
Like I went every day after work.
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I went on the weekends, like pretty much if they were open, I
19:17
was there, Right? Yeah.
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And so I moved the switch from auto cross to karting for to
19:22
inter karting at first because I could give a lot of seat time,
19:24
like 110 minute session at a walk in race was like half the
19:28
year of auto cross as far as sitting in the car, right?
19:31
And so I did a lot of driving just like, you know, walk
19:34
insurance with friends and family, just kind of driving
19:36
with, you know, public lobby stuff for the lack of better,
19:38
right, right, which was actually great because you saw some crazy
19:41
stuff, right, right. And you learned.
19:44
This is in Seattle. Seattle or electric carts well.
19:49
They were gas carts, but same thing.
19:50
Yeah, but same, same thing, right.
19:52
So, you know, they had a 6 horsepower class and a nine
19:54
horsepower class. So you did a couple of races in
19:56
the 6 horsepower and you could qualify for the nines.
19:58
I was quick enough in the sixes to do that.
20:00
So I would run in the 9 horsepower carts and you know,
20:03
you just kind of got used to dealing with traffic and a bunch
20:05
of. 4 drivers making bad decisions and like, you know,
20:08
being able to anticipate that they were going to spin or not
20:10
make the apexes, they'll just hit you and things like that,
20:13
right? But it helped build up a a
20:15
really good solid comfort and traffic for when I moved to
20:19
competition go karts because I ran some indoor tournaments
20:22
there. I won a tournament there.
20:24
It was really great. I ran some indoor clinics there.
20:27
And what I tend to do is a habit I find a motor sport I really
20:32
enjoy. I race it for a while and then I
20:34
start teaching people. So I did it without a cross.
20:37
I did it with indoor karting. I ran a indoor karting clinic
20:40
for a number of years. Like walk insurance could come
20:41
in and I would host a class and I'd teach them how to drive
20:44
around and then they would drive and I would drive with them.
20:46
Right. And then, yeah.
20:48
And what made you want to teach? Is that just part of your DNA?
20:52
Well, it's my way of improving my skill set more quickly
20:56
because we're going through lots of reps, right?
20:59
Because I'm constantly dealing with students, I'm constantly
21:01
helping them learn things. I'm constantly reading the
21:03
material, right? It was an easier way for me to
21:05
reinforce what I needed to do as a driver because I had to teach
21:08
somebody else. And so, you know, by by offering
21:12
myself as a teacher, it not only let me give a little bit back,
21:16
which was something I'm always motivated to do, but it more
21:18
selfishly helped me get as many reps as I could with as many
21:22
different people to really reinforce how things worked.
21:25
OK. And so I would run these horses.
21:27
And if people were driving better after talking to me,
21:29
clearly I'm on to something, right?
21:32
And so, yeah. I mean, what's the what's the
21:36
did with with the auto cross? Did you it was it just like you
21:40
know, I'm not this is as much as far as I can go and I wanted no,
21:43
I need a new challenge as as you said, or did you just I mean.
21:49
You have to be rude about it. I was bored, you know, like I I
21:53
didn't have the money to compete at the top of the class.
21:56
So what was the point of going if I was just going to have
21:58
under prepared equipment? That's not fair, right?
22:01
And I found, at least with indoor karting, the lead playing
22:05
field's a little more fair. Like, sure, they were walking
22:08
carts. I couldn't maintain my own
22:10
equipment, but at least everybody was dealing with the
22:12
same pile of crap. So at least that was kind of
22:14
Fair, right? And then after a number of
22:17
years, I started meeting outdoor Carters who would come to the
22:19
indoor go car tracks for fun. And so, you know, I just, I've
22:23
never afraid to ask a question. I'd be like, where do you go
22:24
race? And they would tell me and I was
22:26
like, I'm gonna meet you there. And I would drive to the go Kart
22:28
track and like, I wasn't even racing that weekend.
22:29
I just sat and asked questions. Where did you buy that?
22:32
How much was it? Who did you get it from?
22:34
Right? Where do you store it?
22:35
Let me see your trailer. Like, you know, things like
22:37
that, right, right, right. And then I bought my own outdoor
22:39
cart and I bought a budget outdoor cart.
22:41
You know, I got a used 1 and I raced with some people until I
22:43
was able to afford a new one. And so the cycle continues.
22:46
Got you. And and out of the three, which
22:48
one it was I guess what's the difference between the indoor
22:53
and outdoor as as far as power suspension?
22:57
Oh, OK. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:58
So like, what are those still carts?
23:00
Yeah, both are still carts. But outdoor carts don't have all
23:03
look like the impact side pods. OK that indoor carts do.
23:06
So they're much lighter and the power, the range of classes is
23:09
much, much broader, right? Like an indoor go Kart.
23:12
You might think of something like A5 horsepower cart or maybe
23:15
like a really fast go Kart is A9 horsepower cart. 9 horsepower is
23:19
the minimum that you'll normally see with race carts and they'll
23:22
go all the way as high as 45. So I raced TAB Senior, which was
23:27
a 2 stroke single speed cart that was about 3132 horsepower.
23:31
So I could do around 70 miles an hour in the go Kart and on the
23:34
road course you could do about 80 or 90.
23:36
OK, so it was a dramatically different.
23:39
Right, right. Right.
23:40
But racing is racing. The line is the line like the
23:42
concepts is the concepts, right? And so part of the reason that I
23:46
taught when I was in the lower categories of things was that
23:48
when I got an opportunity to drive something faster, I had
23:51
something to stand on. You know, I had somewhere to
23:54
start it. It may not have been exactly the
23:56
same thing, but like, I've driven in a cart before.
23:59
I know what the line should be. I know kind of where to brake.
24:01
I know how to trail. I know how to do those things.
24:04
And so then I could get comfortable very quickly.
24:05
And then after a number of laps and my body would just move
24:07
automatically and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I know, I know where
24:09
I'm going. Right, right.
24:10
Go down that. Way nice now are are are there a
24:12
lot of indoor and outdoor tracks in Washington?
24:16
You know, we were spoiled for choice up there, surprisingly,
24:18
right? So there were a lot of outdoor
24:19
tracks in Washington at the time.
24:21
So I, you know, I was able to run the regional circuit for a
24:23
number of years. I raced up there for about 10
24:24
years. And so I raced with a bunch of
24:26
different teams and kind of moved around from place to
24:27
place. It took me a while to find a
24:29
team that I wanted to hang my hat on because I always wanted
24:32
to work with a group that would support me and trying to be
24:34
successful and would just like use me for resource.
24:37
And so it took a little while to find the right team that was
24:39
like, look, I wanna win. I'm trying to win.
24:41
Are you helping me win? Right.
24:44
And what's that's like? What's that?
24:45
What is that like to have a team?
24:46
I mean, I have an idea what it's like in in in motorcycle racing.
24:50
And like I've done, I started doing some indoor racing and so
24:53
now it's like like 4 to 5 riders and that's a whole different
24:56
dynamic and stuff like that. Yeah, it depends on the team.
25:00
It depends on the group so. Like there's like a mechanic
25:03
suspension guy. Is it just somebody extra hand?
25:07
What does that look like? Is it?
25:08
Yeah, so on the on the smaller teams, it's almost like a kind
25:11
of like a, a small club, right. Everyone's just kind of all
25:14
hands on deck pitching in on their own stuff.
25:15
And you kind of help each other as you need it as you start to
25:18
work your way up in budget and bigger teams, some teams have
25:21
specialized people to help, right.
25:23
So sometimes I had a mechanic, sometimes I had a spotter,
25:25
right? Sometimes I had people working
25:27
with me, right. And then if you go up into the
25:29
national level, there are dedicated people who that's
25:31
their job to work on the go Kart and you just drive, right.
25:34
I, I enjoyed running kind of at the regional level where like I
25:36
had a mechanic who was a friend of mine, you know, we would, I
25:39
would pay him because it made it worth his time.
25:41
And then we would go get ice cream after things like that,
25:44
you know, my wife and my boss. But I, I raced with one of the
25:48
top part distributors in the area.
25:49
So like I had good chassis on hand.
25:51
I had a tire changer ready. I had access to tires, but
25:55
things like that. So it made it easy to get
25:56
equipment so that when it was, you know, time to be ready for
25:59
the heat races, my heart was well prepared and then I could
26:02
go compete. Which is one of the reasons I
26:03
got into karting for so long is that like, I could have
26:07
competitive equipment with the same people who are leading and
26:11
winning. And so it motivated me to want
26:12
to drive more because I could actually win the race rather
26:15
than always having used old crap.
26:17
Right, right. So and you know, let's talk
26:20
about the competitive side, because auto cross, you weren't
26:24
looking to be competitive, but somewhere along the line like
26:30
that edge that it's just kind of you want you want to see how you
26:34
stack up against the the other folks.
26:36
And I mean, I'm very competitive.
26:38
My daughter is very competitive and my kids are very
26:40
competitive. So I like racing people because
26:44
the winner is clear, the first one across wins the end, right?
26:49
We didn't have to have any time modifier.
26:53
We weren't trying to make a bunch of assorted cars that
26:55
didn't really go together work together.
26:57
There wasn't like, okay, sure, there was a little bit of
26:59
politics and carting of what was the best engine to have for
27:02
certain classes and stuff, but you could kind of figure your
27:04
way through that, right? At the end of the day, we were
27:07
racing and if I got to the end before everybody else, I was the
27:09
winner. It's really straightforward,
27:11
right? And I enjoy wheel to wheel
27:12
racing the most. So, you know, karting and also
27:15
competitive SIM racing really scratches it just for me because
27:18
I can battle other people. I enjoy competing against other
27:20
people, right? And so that's really where that
27:23
motivation for me to compete really then kicked in.
27:25
Yeah, I mean, let's, let's, let's if you don't mind and we
27:28
if this is not scripted folks, but let's give me a little like,
27:32
you know, intro, intro to to karting as far as teaching, like
27:38
I'm a newbie. Like what are the things?
27:39
How would you start, you know, teaching and what would you say?
27:43
I guess act like very good and then and teach me a couple of
27:45
things. No. 100% so the first thing
27:48
that's different about owning your own cart is that you have
27:51
to know that you want to deal with all the ball like go
27:53
karting. So traditionally what I would do
27:55
is I would recommend that folks bought into like a popular class
27:59
and typically like a low power class, like an LO2O6 where
28:02
there's a lot of insurance, there's a lot of people, it's
28:04
easy to sell the cart if you decide that you don't want to do
28:06
it. So the pressure for your stuff
28:07
is lower. You're not buying a specialized
28:09
thing that if you then try to sell, it's difficult to sell to
28:12
somebody else because you have like a really powerful, but rare
28:15
thing, right? The the second thing that I
28:18
always end up doing is we start to talk about the fundamentals
28:20
of like how a race track is shaped, right?
28:22
It's basically the same at the end of the day.
28:24
We're just going through a range of degrees of curves right at
28:28
the at the end of the day. And so there's always so many
28:31
degrees of turn and we want to use as much width of the track
28:34
as we can almost at all times. So regardless of the type of
28:37
corner, whether it's decreasing or increasing, uphill, downhill,
28:41
camber, posit camber, any of that, we're trying to use as
28:43
much track as possible because vehicles like track.
28:46
The more momentum I can carry, the more track width I can use,
28:50
the faster I will go. So I need to get you used to
28:54
looking as far, like as far ahead as possible and steering
28:58
as little as possible and using as much track width as possible.
29:00
So I would start with some cones in key places to get you used to
29:04
where to look and where to put the go Kart.
29:06
And I'd stand at certain places or have some reference for you
29:09
at certain places to go. Your car needs to be over here.
29:11
If there's space between you and here, you're not in the right
29:14
spot. I don't care how fast you're
29:16
going, I need you to have a baseline reference of where to
29:19
be 1st and then where to look next.
29:23
And now that you're comfortable with that, we can start applying
29:25
speed in particular places so that you're comfortable with the
29:27
car. It feels like going faster, OK,
29:30
because when you're driving, you're basically just looking
29:32
for a reference of am I safe or not?
29:35
And when you don't have that reference, you tense up and
29:37
freak out, right, right. And so then you slow down
29:40
because you're scared. You don't know if it's going to
29:42
hurt you or not. So you'll drive under the limit
29:45
and you're on the drive and you'll never really go fast
29:47
because your brain is like, well, I've never gone over the
29:50
limit before. I've never slid before.
29:52
I've never, you know, carried any speed.
29:53
And before, I don't know if that's a terminal thing.
29:55
I could hurt myself. I don't want to hurt myself.
29:59
Right. Right.
29:59
Yeah, That makes sense. Right.
30:00
So we're gonna we're gonna get you comfortable driving around
30:03
at a low speed, knowing that you won't die and knowing where to
30:05
go. OK, that's cool, right?
30:07
Then we're gonna start having you apply speed, let's say on
30:10
only on exits where all you're doing is accelerating in a
30:12
straight line. Still not gonna hurt yourself
30:14
driving into the turn Can't hurt yourself not going fast enough.
30:16
And we're gonna have you accelerate outgoing straight so
30:18
you know how fast the thing will go at full speed with the foot
30:20
down. No, that speed won't kill you,
30:22
right? And then I'm going to have you
30:23
breaking into corners where you're just slowing down, coming
30:26
to a slow speed. You came from work 10 to a stop
30:30
and didn't die. Isn't that great, right.
30:34
And then we sort of apply kind of layers on to it so that your
30:37
brain builds up the confidence that, oh, this isn't going to
30:39
kill me, right? Right.
30:41
And then as you start getting more and more comfortable, I can
30:43
start increasing the level of difficulty of the technique and
30:45
explaining more and more to you, and you'll build up confidence
30:49
over time. Right.
30:51
And go ahead. No.
30:52
No, I was going to say like, once you're at a certain level,
30:54
you can start like, let's say, following me around and have
30:57
something to mimic knowing that you won't die.
30:59
I'm going to drive at the speed that you can handle, not the
31:01
speed that I can handle. So you can trust me that if you
31:04
can still see me, you're OK, right?
31:07
And then you build up that confidence and they do labs.
31:09
And as they do labs, they start to experiment.
31:10
They get faster. And then, you know, to get a
31:14
little technical, what it what does the the the intermediate
31:19
trying to be advanced student gets to see what what what are
31:23
we looking at at Yeah. So when we start to get to
31:26
intermediate into advance, we start talking about like part
31:28
dynamics and how the part's moving around.
31:30
So parts don't have differentials and so they have
31:33
to, because they're a solid rear axle in the back, they have to
31:36
Jack the inside tire to make it turn.
31:39
So you load up the outside tire, you lift the inside tire and it
31:42
pivots itself around the turn. And so, you know, we, if we, if
31:47
we're only staying with intermediate, I'm getting them
31:49
to focus on lifting that inside tire and feeling when to apply
31:53
the power to lower that inside tire so that you get the most
31:57
rotation and are able to leave quickly.
32:00
A lot of folks, what they do is they get on the throttle too
32:02
quickly and so they start to go into the turn and they start to
32:05
Jack and then they get excited and they get on the gas and then
32:08
they drop the axle and then they understeer off the road.
32:12
Correct. And what is the momentum to get
32:13
the rear tire or what is the movement to get the rear tire
32:17
off the ground or rear inside tire off the ground?
32:20
Yeah, yeah. So carts, cart because carts
32:22
don't have suspension. Your body is a suspension
32:25
member. So the way that you, the way
32:27
that you stay fixed in the go Kart and the way that you shift
32:29
your body weight is what helps to unload parts of the cart to
32:32
make it move around. Wheel.
32:35
Exactly. So it's almost like I'm riding a
32:37
motorcycle in a way. It's like getting comfortable
32:39
with moving around, getting comfortable with moving the bike
32:41
with your body and what is the bike doing underneath you with
32:43
your body is very similar in the go Kart.
32:46
So we get them comfortable with moving their body around and
32:48
noticing the jacking effect as the car is being jacked and how
32:51
it's helping the car turn. And then you teach them to apply
32:54
throttle actually inappropriately first so you can
32:57
see how bad it is. You put you put a mark on the
32:59
track and you say, I want you to get the full throttle here
33:01
knowing that it'll feel terrible and you'll be like this is how
33:04
bad it'll be if you do it here. Now I want you to go into the
33:07
same corner and don't get on the power till you're here.
33:10
You see how much better that feels?
33:12
And they're like, oh, because they have a reference, because
33:14
they know how to experiment with one input at a time.
33:18
And as you start to give them that pattern of what to notice,
33:21
right, then they can go off on their own and start trying it on
33:23
their own, right? But you know at the time, too
33:27
many things are happening when you're driving that you don't.
33:29
You don't really think about it because you can't see it, right?
33:33
Right. And your brain is if your brain
33:35
is working, you're going slow. Right.
33:37
Your brain's working. You're going slow.
33:38
Well, no, for sure, right. But but trying to figure out how
33:40
to properly program the brain so that we can get it back to its
33:44
automatic cycle is what's important.
33:46
Because I can program you with crappy inputs and then you're
33:49
just automatically doing things badly, right?
33:51
Right. Yeah.
33:53
And and so IA couple of years ago I took AI forget is it, I
33:56
think it was California super bike.
33:58
One of those classes. I did a A2 day class and and one
34:02
of the things they were talking about was your eyes.
34:04
And you know, they they showed a Moto GP rider who doesn't blink,
34:08
right? Because every time you shift
34:10
your eye, your brain shuts off. Yeah, so.
34:14
In in car race and are you just looking at your your breaking
34:18
marker, your apex and your exit? Well, you're looking 3.
34:21
You're exactly right. So what happens basically
34:23
whenever you're adjusting your vision, your brain is
34:25
recalculating. It's one of the reasons why you
34:27
don't look at every step when you're going down to fly the
34:29
stairs. You just look at the bottom of
34:30
the stairs, right? Because your brain will go, OK,
34:32
this is how far I am perspective wise.
34:34
I won't fall Step, step, step, step, step, step, step.
34:37
Where if you looked at every step, every step, every step of
34:39
the way for a microsecond, your brain would go, am I OK?
34:43
Am I OK? Am I OK?
34:44
And if you're in a moving vehicle, every one of those
34:46
little blinks, the vehicle has moved, right?
34:48
And so you're always too late. Where if you're looking through
34:51
the turn, all you have to do is get to this point.
34:54
All I have to do is steer and get here.
34:56
And once I'm at that point, I need to be looking somewhere
34:58
else because I'm in the spot. I can't do anything being here,
35:01
right? Right.
35:02
And so teaching them that the your hands follow your eyes and
35:07
the vehicle follows your hands. So effectively, the vehicle
35:10
follows your eyes, right? It's really important, right?
35:14
In Auto Cross, what we used to do is we used to take crate
35:15
paper and we used to tape it across the bottom of the
35:18
windshield so that you couldn't look down.
35:20
Because what would tend to happen is that people would look
35:22
down because they were too afraid, right?
35:25
So we blocked the bottom of the windshield so they couldn't even
35:27
use it. And it was like you.
35:29
It's a remarkable how the brain will adapt when it can't use
35:32
that information. And I would do the same thing
35:34
with folks in go karting. I would take the bottom of their
35:35
helmet. I would take like folding paper
35:37
and put it underneath the bottom of their visor, just underneath
35:39
their eye line so they couldn't look down.
35:42
Yep. Right.
35:43
And motorcycle racing, they they tape over the speedometer
35:45
because if you see how fast you're going.
35:47
Yeah, yeah. Well, so I, I have a tracking
35:49
Civic and it's the same thing. So I actually have a big like
35:52
carbon piece that I put over the speedometer so I can just see
35:55
the tack. Yeah.
35:56
Because I don't need to know that I'm doing 130 into this
35:59
turn because my brain will think about that for long enough and
36:01
be like, oh God, if I mess it up at 130, that'll really hurt.
36:05
Yeah. Where if it's just like the top
36:07
at 4th at 8000, that's just the RPM needs to be I'm just not
36:12
dead so great. No doubt no doubt wow that's
36:18
pretty cool your knowledge of of racing and so let's talk about
36:22
SIM. You know, this is something that
36:24
I, I would like to get into. I mean, I, I think I, you know,
36:28
back in the day I must, I had Gran Turismo back in the day.
36:30
So that's the closest thing I had.
36:31
And, and now I have APS 5A Gran Turismo that I've just been
36:35
playing for the last few months. I'm still like getting my
36:38
license and getting my brain real acclimated to being in four
36:44
wheels. Even though it's a video game,
36:47
it's still a, a different mindset than racing on the
36:51
motors, a video game on a motorcycle.
36:52
I, I also race online with, with motorcycles and stuff like that
36:57
as well. So how did you get into that and
37:01
was it something you decided to do to help you on the street?
37:04
So it's just, again, you know, as you say that you have
37:07
different phases and this is maybe a new challenge for you.
37:11
Yeah, so it was kind of a happy accident.
37:14
So what actually ended up happening is that one of my go
37:17
karting teammates was playing F1.
37:21
God, I think it was F12017 in the league, and he made a
37:25
teammate because he didn't have any friends.
37:27
And so he asked me if I would race with him.
37:29
I said, yeah, sure, why not? Like, you know, just something
37:31
to do for something to do, right?
37:33
And so I started competing in these leagues and I would get my
37:35
doors blown off. And I was mad about it because I
37:37
would ask people like, well, how are you able to get the card to
37:39
do XYZ? And they wouldn't tell me.
37:42
They were just, you know, you just need to know how to do it.
37:44
And I hate that answer, right? And I don't ask people, but I
37:47
kind of feel that way because I and I play, I play right five
37:50
one of the games they play in Moto GP.
37:52
But it's like, you know, it is, you know, I'm, you know, I'm
37:56
still like 3 seconds behind, 2 seconds behind the fastest guys
38:00
that that I play with at times. And I was a lot slower.
38:03
So I feel good about, you know, getting quicker, but it's just
38:06
kind of like, like, what are they doing to just get that
38:10
extra thing? Because it's like, you know, I
38:12
feel like I'm doing everything right and they still just kind
38:15
of stretching. No, I get you.
38:16
So I hated that answer. I really, really did.
38:19
And so I started coaching in SIM because I wanted to find the
38:23
answer. So I would work with friends who
38:24
are slower than me and I try to get them up to my speed to
38:26
figure out, you know, I took what I learned in go karting, I
38:28
took what I learned in auto cross and started to apply that
38:30
in SIM racing. And I just kind of started
38:32
there. Then COVID happened and
38:34
everything shut down. And so we couldn't go racing for
38:36
a while. And so another friend of mine
38:38
had a SIM league that he had on a set of Corsa competition ACC.
38:42
Again, same, same deal. He invited me to come race with
38:45
him, and when I got there, they had a rookie league that was
38:50
basically just like the Wild West.
38:52
So they had a bunch of new people like yourself that would
38:54
show up, but there was no one there to really take care of
38:56
them. So the races were just crash
38:57
fests and people would get frustrated and they would leave.
39:00
Yeah. Yeah.
39:01
And I was like, look, man, you have this great opportunity to
39:03
keep this league going by teaching these rookies how to
39:06
race properly. Yeah, why don't you let me do
39:08
it? Because I know how to do it.
39:10
Let me do it. I'll stay out of the other
39:12
leagues over here, the other classes you have.
39:13
You guys can drive however you want to, and I'll help these
39:16
rookies figure out like what the racing line is and how to drive
39:18
and how to do the whatever. So that way, at least when they
39:20
make it up to your classes, they're more aware of what to
39:22
expect and they'll drive better over there and it won't be so
39:25
terrible and they won't leave. Right, right, yeah, I, I, you
39:28
know, some of the things like and I'll use ride.
39:30
I know I'm saying ride and PS and grand tourism.
39:33
I know they're not Sims. I'm no, don't, don't beat me up
39:36
about out there, but I noticed the difference when I race with
39:42
people online that I know race. Yeah, it's so much different.
39:47
It's so much different than than I think people who are just
39:50
learning or haven't raced a physical motorcycle in in in in
39:55
my case. But you, you, you know, because
39:58
we leave room, We see people, we give them room, you know, we, we
40:02
know not to knock, knock. Somebody out to the track, Yeah.
40:05
What's the etiquette? So where I.
40:06
What I found is like when I start, especially when I started
40:09
coaching more regularly, as most people don't understand the
40:11
etiquette because they're not able to put themselves in the
40:13
shoes of the other driver, right?
40:15
They're always selfishly putting themselves in their own shoes,
40:18
like from their own point of view.
40:19
So if we're two cars and we're racing and I'm coming up on you,
40:22
the novice will think, well, he should see me, he should care
40:25
about me and what I'm doing. This guy does not care about you
40:29
at all. All he cares about is driving
40:30
his car as well as he can and making the next upcoming turn.
40:34
So you have to put yourself in a place where he can see you so
40:37
that he can negotiate around you because he wants to make it to
40:39
the end of the race too. Like no one enters a race going,
40:42
I hope I crash and die, right? So they need to be able to see
40:45
you and then be able to navigate around you.
40:48
And that sort of whole etiquette and also mindset around the
40:51
perspective of the other racers, you're never taught, right?
40:54
This is not a common conversation piece that happens
40:56
regularly amongst, you know, people in leagues or online or
41:00
you know, most, most people who post about racing online, they
41:03
mostly post about like lap times that they're trying to flex,
41:06
hardware they're trying to review or a game they're trying
41:09
to review. But very few people are talking
41:11
about the racing, right? You might get people who talk
41:13
about the driving. This is understeer.
41:15
This is oversteer. Here's the line.
41:18
But eventually everyone can drive, right?
41:20
I'm talking about racing. How do you compete with other
41:23
people and negotiate with other people to get to the finish line
41:26
quicker than them, right? It's a totally different thing.
41:29
And so a lot of leads didn't. They weren't equipped to have
41:32
those conversations. Everybody would just drive in
41:34
like selfish jerks and kill each other because nobody really knew
41:37
what to expect, like how to accommodate around the other
41:40
cars, how to make it so that we could all get to the end like.
41:43
Right, And you know, for me, a good example of negotiating
41:47
right is like, you know, if, if you know when I've gone to being
41:51
in Jamaica and and seeing people drive and I'll let you'll see
41:54
videos online saying, you know, they drive crazy in Jamaica, but
41:58
it's like music because everybody is negotiating and.
42:01
Right, exactly all. Expected, you know, I, I drove
42:04
in Rome when I went to Italy and around everywhere and is the
42:09
same thing. It's just like everybody's on
42:11
it, but everybody's seen everybody and it's.
42:14
We all. We all in time, we're all the.
42:18
Time the racing is just car to car communication, right?
42:20
Communicating with you with the positioning of my car, where I
42:23
put my car, when I put my car somewhere where I turn, when I
42:26
turn. And so based on how you position
42:28
yourself around me also tells me a lot about yourself, right?
42:31
If you're a respectful person, you'll pull up next to me and be
42:34
like, hey, man, I'm next to you. We can make it through together.
42:37
And I'm not going to try to run you off the road or squeeze you
42:39
off the road because I don't want to die too.
42:41
Where if you're selfish, you'll try to surprise me.
42:45
Where like I'm already turning and I can't change the direction
42:47
of my car. And you're just like, surprised
42:48
I can't avoid now, even if I knew you were coming.
42:52
So we die, right? You either got to take the the
42:55
title line and eat whatever you get and which is what you're
42:58
supposed to do, right? Yeah, you mess up, right?
43:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and then also too, it's
43:03
also about like that communication of how do you
43:05
communicate to the guy behind that you can't go here, right.
43:08
So one of the things that I especially when I start to get
43:10
to students that are trying to get more competitive is how to
43:13
be selfish correctly, right? Because again, I do need to
43:17
protect my space on the racetrack, but I don't need to
43:20
be driving people off the road. So I need to keep position my
43:23
car, right? I can't be a bully, right?
43:25
But but I can, I can be firm, but just not be a bully, right?
43:29
So if we're both going down into return, I can position my car to
43:32
say, hey, man, you can't go here.
43:34
I can't weave to block you out, right?
43:36
So I have to be smart enough on when I tell you that it's
43:39
happening, that you have enough time to see it happening, but
43:41
not so much that you can come up with a strategy to counter,
43:45
right? Right.
43:45
And we just don't have these conversations regularly amongst
43:50
racing enthusiasts in general like this, right?
43:52
You get, yeah, you get a lot of rhetoric.
43:55
You just got to send it. You just got to lick the stand.
43:57
You just got to like, that doesn't explain the why for
43:59
anything, right? And so I'm over here pulling my
44:02
hair out because I get so many people who come to me that are
44:05
like, well, you got to go for the gap.
44:06
You got to throw it in. You got to do this.
44:08
And I'm like, you don't even know what that means.
44:11
They they heard Aaron Senna say yeah.
44:13
They heard Senna say it and they heard, they heard Jordy say it
44:15
on YouTube once. And then they just paired it
44:17
back to me. You know, like I was explaining
44:19
to somebody about smooth is fast and what does smooth is fast
44:22
mean, right. And I was like, do you know what
44:25
smooth is fast means? And they're like, well, you
44:27
know, be smooth with your inputs.
44:29
I'm like, but how, how are you smooth with your inputs?
44:33
And they were like, well, you know, you got to slow down to
44:35
make the turn. I'm like, are we trying to go
44:36
slow? Is the purpose to try to go
44:38
slow? The purpose isn't trying to go
44:39
slow. I'm trying to get you on the
44:41
limit of the tire. How do I, I got to go in fast to
44:44
be on the limit of the tire. So that's not it, right?
44:46
And like the, the end of the answer is really it's, it's
44:49
accurate weight transfer at a high speed on the limb of the
44:51
tire. But the amount of words that
44:53
it'll take to effectively explain it is longer than most
44:56
people's attention spans. Right.
44:58
Right, sure. And so that's where a lot of my
45:01
like Tik Toks and things came from were tips and tricks that
45:04
were less than two minutes. Right see out of just been like
45:06
it's feeling, man. It's just feeling.
45:08
Yeah, that would make me mad. I would just.
45:09
I would just be like, no, it's not that.
45:11
It's just not that that guy just can't explain it, but it's it's
45:14
not that. Like there are engineers whose
45:15
job it is to make this thing do the thing.
45:19
Racing's by dancing man, you just feel the music but.
45:22
You're right. Like you're right.
45:23
And so like there's a, there's a happy medium, honestly, between
45:26
the rhetoric and the science that I try to breach, right?
45:30
Because, you know, when we're talking like this, I want you to
45:33
think about it. But when you're racing, I don't
45:35
want you to think right, right. I need it to be automatic.
45:38
I need it to be flying. So I tell a lot of people that
45:40
practice is the time for overthinking.
45:41
Practice is the time to try new things and ask what's happening
45:44
and experiment and mess it up. And whatever the race is the
45:47
time to execute on the things we already know.
45:49
So just do what you know how to do, do the best you can with
45:53
what you know how to do. Whatever you screw up, write it
45:55
down on the notebook and we'll deal with it in the next
45:57
practice. But don't fix it in the race
45:58
because. Can't practice on the race.
46:00
Can't practice on the race. The race is race time, right?
46:03
And so, you know, as you start to kind of get that flow of
46:07
finding how to get them to think about it the right way, you end
46:09
up with more intelligent drivers.
46:10
And that's all I've really ever wanted, right?
46:13
If there's more people I race with, I knew how it's supposed
46:15
to work so they don't just kill me when I just want to race.
46:19
It's a beautiful thing when everybody knows what they're
46:20
doing and what's going on. You see some amazing racing, you
46:24
know so. Like, I would rather finish 7th
46:28
in a great race. Yeah.
46:30
Win a race where everyone else died.
46:32
Yeah. You know, like, I like battles.
46:34
I come for good battles. So I want a good race with
46:36
people. And like, I want to know, be
46:38
able to race with people who also understand how to
46:40
respectfully do it too. So they're not just trying to
46:42
kill me. Right, 'cause that's stressful.
46:43
That's not fun. That's pretty impressive.
46:46
So let's talk about like what a SIM league is like and what how
46:51
do you define a SIM system? What is it just the steering
46:55
wheel and pedals? Is it the whole, you know,
46:59
suspension for lack of a better word, or actuators?
47:03
Well, the nice thing about SIM racing is a little bit, if it's
47:05
down to your budget of choose your own adventure, right?
47:08
So like when I my first SIM was a PlayStation 2 with a logistics
47:12
G29 mounted to a desk on a monitor.
47:14
OK, right. So it wasn't that sophisticated.
47:17
I got a real and my PS I got a SIM.
47:19
I got a SIM, so you're good, right?
47:21
And then as you get more into the hobby and you know that you
47:24
want to do it, you'll want to refine the equipment, right?
47:27
Because you want to get more fidelity, you want to get more
47:29
detail, you want to get loads of pedals so it's easier to do
47:32
certain things like you know, but you upgrade as you go rather
47:35
than spending like $60,000 all in and then realize you didn't
47:37
need half of it. I was going to say, when do we
47:39
knock down the wall? Right, Exactly, exactly,
47:41
exactly. Right.
47:42
So like some of the clients that I work with, Rafex Advisory,
47:44
they started from that side, right where they, you know,
47:46
they're great SIM constructors who I believe overbuilt Sims
47:50
where they give them way too much them more than they'd ever
47:53
need. You know, 25 Newt meter direct
47:55
drive wheels, you know, of motion actuators, triples, like,
47:59
you know, they have money, so they have the budget to do it.
48:01
So why not, right? It's not required.
48:04
Yeah, let me ask this is it. We were, I was talking about
48:09
feeling and and and you can feel it like dancing and stuff like
48:11
that. And we got Sims moving so people
48:13
can actually feel the car right in theory versus just kind of
48:18
knowing what to do and and stuff like that.
48:24
Does it help that the car is is moving that the the spin is
48:27
moving or or is it just more just a little more like jumping
48:31
on a roller coaster it? Depends on who you talk to.
48:33
So I so Max Verstappen. I don't know if you've heard him
48:39
Motion. SIM a little bit, a little bit.
48:41
And he's done a little bit of it, right, because a lot of the
48:43
he's like a lot of the noise you get from motion SIM is just more
48:46
novelty to make you feel like you're moving around, but it's
48:48
not really helping performance, right?
48:50
And I'm like, because, you know, the, the really sophisticated
48:53
motion actuators like Formula One simulators have like the,
48:56
the, you know, air grade levels, right?
49:01
But it's also got. Multiple.
49:02
Processors doing things right. Your computer isn't as
49:06
sophisticated as a Formula One SIM.
49:09
So is it enhanced experience? Yeah.
49:11
Yeah, it totally does. Is it required to go fast?
49:14
Absolutely not, Right. So choose your adventure.
49:17
Like, you know, some of my friends have haptic iPads where
49:21
it vibrates a little bit as the car is moving around.
49:23
So it gives them a little bit of motion feel because there's just
49:25
a vibration, like, under their butt and under their back.
49:28
And if that's the trigger that you need to help you, then
49:30
great, right? But I've never been in a race
49:32
with somebody that's like, I won because of my haptics.
49:34
Right, right. And I'll say I do like so.
49:36
And again, I, I'm, I'm using the a controller, but I do like the
49:40
vibration because, you know, in, in the ride game, it's like,
49:43
it's nice to know in the front, I'm going to lose the front,
49:45
right? So I can vibration.
49:47
I'm like, I, it's like, so I, I, I that, I mean, I guess over
49:51
time you would just also just feel it, you know, as like,
49:53
well, you gotta, I mean, I started.
49:54
On green chase before in a PlayStation controller.
49:57
I'm totally with you dude. I used to analog stick for gas
49:59
and break into steer because it was easier than pushing buttons.
50:01
Like I totally feel you there. I liked having the the force
50:04
feedback as the tire was sliding around like so I didn't know as
50:07
much as I knew now about why it was doing it, but I would be
50:10
like, well, when it would vibrate this much, this was bad
50:12
and when it vibrated that much, this was good.
50:14
So I'm just gonna let it vibrate a little bit.
50:15
So the lot bit, right? So, you know, it sounds like
50:21
you've been in the racing scene for well over 10 years.
50:25
Safe to say yeah. 20/20/20 Yeah I just turned 39 just last week.
50:30
Oh, OK, right. Nice.
50:32
Well, not nice to getting old because no one likes to get old.
50:34
But you know, you know what it is.
50:37
Yeah. And there you go.
50:38
All that matters. So how has I mean, I know
50:43
there's auto cross, there's indoor cart, outdoor cart SIM.
50:47
Like, you know, do you ever sit? Do you sit back?
50:50
I'm pretty sure you do because it sounds like you think a lot.
50:53
How do you, when you look back the past 20 years, like what do
50:56
you think about like make the changes or you know, how far the
51:01
sport has progressed? Do you feel it's progressed in
51:04
the in the right direction? Like sure.
51:06
Yeah, well, I'll say that as far as accessibility to get people
51:10
into racing, especially with SIM racing now, it's more accessible
51:14
than it's ever been, which I think is great, right?
51:16
I was always frustrated because I've never come from a large
51:18
amount of money, and it was always a little frustrating when
51:21
I would go to the track and I couldn't compete because I just
51:24
didn't have any of it, right. And that was very frustrating.
51:27
And even when I got into go karting, it wasn't cheap.
51:31
And so trying to get some of my friends to even want to come
51:33
raising with me was hard because it's like, oh, well, you're
51:35
going to need to spend 5 to $10,000 to even really be
51:38
interested. And like, that's not really a
51:39
fair barrier for them to want to jump over just to hang out with
51:42
me, you know. And so with the SIM, it was
51:45
like, well, you got a desk, you got a screen, you got APCI mean
51:51
like, you know, I've got a, I've got an ultra wide sitting here
51:53
behind me with two monitors and, you know, direct drive and all
51:56
this other stuff. You don't need all that stuff.
51:57
Do you want to come hang out with me?
52:00
Great. And if they find that they're
52:02
really invested in wanting to be a better driver, they're going
52:04
to upgrade their hardware on their own.
52:05
I don't have to tell them how to do it.
52:07
They're going to do it on their own.
52:08
And if they're really motivated to drive and be a good driver
52:10
like I am, they're going to buy the track day card.
52:13
They're going to get the stuff right.
52:15
Their motivation will keep them going, but at least it's a lot
52:18
more accessible than it was, let's say, 20 years ago.
52:23
Yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll for sure.
52:25
I mean like, I mean like I said out of Cross Young, it got away
52:28
from it, you know, I thought I'd just go off and get rich and
52:31
build my own race team. Right.
52:33
Yeah, you see, I'm still working on that by the.
52:35
Way Yeah, exactly. You know, so, you know, life
52:38
happened and, and and so forth and you know, I, I, I always
52:43
wanted to ride but just didn't get into it.
52:45
So I didn't get into motorcycle riding until my 40s.
52:49
And my first year, my first bike I got, I, I did over 11,000
52:53
miles because I wanted to get good at it.
52:55
And I was fortunate from, I guess from really from the car
53:00
days, because the guy I knew Jesse, that's I knew them from
53:04
cars for making Volkswagens go faster, you know what I mean?
53:08
And but he also wrote, I didn't know that.
53:09
I just knew he had fast, fast Volkswagens and, and could build
53:13
them and, and he, and I saw him one day, he's just like, come to
53:16
the racetrack. I was like, oh, you can do that.
53:18
So. Right.
53:18
Yeah, that's exactly what was for me.
53:20
Like, oh, I didn't even know that was a thing.
53:21
Yeah, exactly. That's the ability part of it.
53:23
And, and, and, and you're, I mean, you're fortunate in, in,
53:26
in Washington to have a lot of tracks.
53:28
And in New England or in Massachusetts, they had a lot of
53:31
tracks. Don't get me wrong.
53:32
They had a lot of, you know, but somewhere along the line, I
53:35
think in the 80s, you know, fast things were dangerous.
53:38
Yeah. People stopped going to tracks
53:41
and we're seeing that in the racing community now in the US
53:44
trying to build it back up because, you know, it used to be
53:47
a such a huge level back in the day.
53:50
And now, you know, a lot of a lot of folks have have, you
53:53
know, but through I think lack of education, you know, think
53:57
it's too dangerous. Right, well, and that's really
53:59
what it is through a lot of education.
54:00
I think it's too dangerous because they don't know what
54:02
they're looking for or how to do it.
54:04
And you know, as a, I've always found a personal motivation to
54:07
try to educate as many people as I can about how it works to just
54:10
increase the level of conversation amongst drivers.
54:12
That's all I've really ever wanted to do, right, Is that,
54:15
you know, I wanted to go to the track and be able to talk to my
54:17
friends about how their car was working and how they were doing
54:19
and how they were driving and like, you know, my friends could
54:21
talk to me about it. And that sucked, right?
54:23
Right. And my friends wanted to be
54:24
better drivers. And the only thing I could be
54:26
told was you either had to have it or you didn't, and that
54:28
sucked. Or you had to spend $5000 to go
54:30
to Skip Barber 2 day school, which made no sense to me.
54:33
That you were going to master everything that you need to know
54:35
in two days, which made no sense to me.
54:37
Right, your daily driver. Right, exactly.
54:40
And so I was like, well, I mean, if we had a more refined
54:43
curriculum around, like driving and racing and had a better
54:46
dialogue amongst us or amongst our peers, we would all be
54:49
better drivers because everyone is smarter.
54:52
And if everyone's more informed, then the driving and racing is
54:54
better and it's easier to introduce new people.
54:56
And yeah, yeah. Right.
54:57
So it's a win. But that lack of education is
55:00
what's hurting people. I mean, you would be surprised
55:03
in the leagues that I run how few people even know the types
55:05
of cars they're even racing on a regular basis.
55:08
They'll ask me all the time, oh, I don't know, what's the
55:10
difference between the GT2 or GT3 or GT4?
55:12
What engines in this? Is it front engine?
55:15
Is it mid engine? And I mean, like, I came from
55:16
the forum and magazine. Just pick up a magazine and
55:18
start reading. What is wrong with you?
55:20
Look it up Right? You're a People Car magazine for
55:23
me, man. Right But people don't do that
55:24
anymore. And so, you know, trying to
55:26
motivate them to educate themselves so that they become
55:28
better drivers is a big challenge, right?
55:31
But it's something that is important to me because I don't
55:34
think the sport can survive if you don't have intelligent
55:36
racers. If everyone's stupid, right,
55:40
we're all going to suffer. So I.
55:42
I, I definitely realized that a few years back and you know, it,
55:47
it, you know, there's a lot of energy for what you're doing to
55:53
put a curriculum together, to go out there and, and talk to
55:56
people and stuff like that. And you know, you know, these
55:59
club races. I, I talk about a motorcycle
56:01
side to put on track days or people who decide to put on a
56:05
racing club to go racing and stuff like that.
56:07
They don't have to do these things, no.
56:08
We don't have to. You know, but they love the
56:10
sport so much the the, the, the corner marshals, the flag people
56:14
that show up because they're not getting paid for any of that
56:16
stuff, right? People love the sport and they
56:19
want to contribute and and with people like that, the sport
56:22
would already been as far as the motorcycle race in the US would
56:25
have been dead. And yeah, or it would just be a
56:27
handful of wealthy people who are just having fun doing it,
56:29
and the rest of us wouldn't be able to do it.
56:31
And so, yeah. So it's important for what
56:34
you're doing and it's kind of why I, I didn't get into the
56:37
motorcycle podcast to be doing what I'm doing like this, but
56:40
it's, it's to contribute. I, I, I, I, I love racing cars
56:44
or motorcycle and, and it's the, the contribute to kind of just
56:48
grow the sport because it's a beautiful sport.
56:51
The racing community is beautiful.
56:53
I, I can, I can only really speak about on the motorcycle
56:55
side, but I'm sure it's the same way on the car side.
56:58
Like people will race against you and, and be your friend the
57:01
next after racing or give you parts to go race against them
57:05
and stuff like that. And and the communities is a
57:08
really beautiful community and something I want to save so or
57:11
try to help, you know, grow it and, and build out.
57:14
So now what you're doing is, is is special and and incredible.
57:18
Well, look, man, I've always been of the mindset that mental
57:21
performance was always free, so if I understood how to make
57:24
things work, I didn't have to pay as much because I could make
57:27
the most of what I had. Yep, right.
57:29
And so I started reading and writing and coaching and other
57:32
things because it was just developing in the understanding
57:34
in my brain. And then when I did get an
57:35
opportunity to get better tires or I got a faster car or
57:38
whatever, I knew where to start because I've been studying the
57:41
craft from the beginning. And a lot of people don't do
57:44
that. They just want to buy a 500
57:46
horsepower car or 1000 horsepower car nowadays and show
57:49
up with the track and be a Formula D star.
57:50
And I'm like the steps to get from here to here is this big
57:54
and you haven't done any of them.
57:55
Like what? Right.
57:57
And and, you know, I don't look, I have nothing against
58:01
professional organizations. I like, I support all all these
58:04
professional organizations like the Bondurons, Skip Barbers and
58:06
all the other things. I think they're great.
58:08
I highly recommend people go to go to them.
58:10
But there's a lot of free material that you could educate
58:14
yourself before even going there that would make your experience
58:17
that much better. If you read a book like, you
58:21
know what I'm saying? Like it's just damn it, right?
58:24
It's audio book. Yeah, even an audio book, man.
58:27
Like, you know, I, I, you know, I've written articles for a
58:30
bunch of publications. I have a big library in my house
58:33
that is all about racing cars. Like I share, I share videos all
58:36
the time of, you know, just free stuff for people of go read
58:39
this, go read that, go read this.
58:41
Like you have to want to do it though, right?
58:43
Right. And I tell people all the time,
58:45
like, if you want to be a better driver, it's because you want
58:48
to, I can't make you do it. All the work I do is to make me
58:52
a better driver. I can't help you.
58:54
You have to want to do it. And so I can give you access to
58:58
resources. Yeah, and it's interesting
59:01
because it a lot of folks cannot connect that dot those dots,
59:06
right. It's just kind of like, you
59:09
know, you're whatever car you're in now is 4 thousand 5000 lbs
59:14
vehicle going 80 miles an hour. It doesn't look good on the
59:19
other side if you don't know what you're doing.
59:21
Right. Yeah, Yeah, In between you and
59:24
me, I think we get aspirational occupation and enthusiast
59:30
learning confused. So a lot of people come to me
59:33
all the time and they're like, well, Adam, you're not going to
59:34
be a professional racing driver. Like, why do you need to learn
59:36
all this stuff? I'm like, first of all, rude,
59:38
but second of all, like, I just want to learn how this works.
59:42
There's no harm in getting better at something as a hobby
59:45
that I want to learn the most I can as an amateur.
59:48
I mean, if we're going to be really blunt about it, the only
59:50
difference between the pro and me is that that Pro is bringing
59:52
money, and I'm not bringing money.
59:54
We don't get paid in racing. And what are you talking about?
59:57
Those people brought enough money that they get the word pro
1:00:00
attached to their name. Nothing wrong with that, but
1:00:03
that doesn't mean that I can't educate myself in the interim.
1:00:07
I I do say there's a little something wrong with that, but,
1:00:10
well, I. Mean, OK, no, look, there's a
1:00:11
lot wrong with it. There's a lot wrong with it.
1:00:13
Yes, there's another note box completely over here where I
1:00:15
will talk about the expensive things that I will rant for
1:00:17
hours about. But this discussion today, you
1:00:20
know, like I'm not over here being like you're rich.
1:00:22
It's not fair. I mean, it's not fair, but it's
1:00:24
not fair, right? I can still educate myself about
1:00:27
driving, right? Yeah, I just want to drive my
1:00:29
Miata, the best Miata driver I can be, right?
1:00:32
Right. I want to be the best way as
1:00:33
soon driver I can. Yeah, motorcycle racing and car
1:00:36
racing, like I can't just buy my way onto the NBA court or
1:00:40
football field or anything. But if you have enough money,
1:00:43
you'll end up in Moto GP, you can end up in Formula One you
1:00:47
want. To race exactly right.
1:00:49
And and you know, look, there's there's a bigger micro
1:00:51
conversation about where the money comes from and how we
1:00:54
afford to do it. But the other thing is like, do
1:00:56
we need to all be racing Formula One?
1:00:57
I don't think so. I've had some really great
1:01:00
battles and not that so you know what I'm saying?
1:01:03
Like, I I know this exists. That's great.
1:01:06
But I don't need to go be the one to go do that.
1:01:08
I could do a bunch of other stuff too.
1:01:10
And so, you know, trying to educate people, even just
1:01:12
different forms of racing that are available and accessible to
1:01:15
you. Right, Right.
1:01:17
Like, and then who knows what opportunities get brought up
1:01:19
from that? Like we don't know.
1:01:20
Life is weird that way. Yeah, Right.
1:01:23
Yeah. So that's.
1:01:24
What? That's what I always tell
1:01:25
people. Yeah, and you and you brought a
1:01:27
a good point about everyone need to be in Formula One because in
1:01:30
on a motorcycle side, you know, people want one thousands and
1:01:34
and big bikes. Yeah.
1:01:35
And I have a couple of KTMS and I started out I guess my biggest
1:01:38
race bike was a 600 and I went down to a 42 horsepower bike.
1:01:42
So I can learn fundamentals. I can master my body position.
1:01:46
Yeah. And you're not telling me I'm
1:01:47
not having fun on that bike when I'm all done?
1:01:49
Hey, no, for sure, man, for sure.
1:01:51
Look, I used to say the same thing about go karting.
1:01:52
So I always race tag because I'm the sort of person that takes
1:01:55
one class that I really want. And I drive up a lot, you know,
1:01:58
I want a special. I know that about myself.
1:02:00
So I find what makes me happy. I drive it into the ground,
1:02:02
right? But a lot of folks would go in
1:02:04
and buy like a shifter cart first thing, ICC, first thing,
1:02:07
42 horsepower, 50 horsepower, way faster than anything they've
1:02:11
ever driven. They do not have the skills to
1:02:12
keep up with this machine, right?
1:02:14
OK. And scaring the crap out of them
1:02:16
all the time, right? Right.
1:02:17
And they go out once, scare themselves, never drive it again
1:02:21
because they're intimidated, right?
1:02:23
They're not only intended because they're scared of the
1:02:24
machine, they're too more. Yeah, and explain that a little
1:02:27
bit more about the, the, the more powerful cars on a karting
1:02:30
track, right. Because you know, you know, I, I
1:02:32
over the past weekend I was doing an enduro race and we were
1:02:35
talking about, you know, mini bikes on, on, on karting tracks
1:02:40
and like a 250 on a karting track is like 1000.
1:02:44
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for
1:02:47
sure. So I guess the way that I would
1:02:48
put this to make it easy for you is take whatever horsepower you
1:02:51
get from a go Kart and add a 0 go and it's the car equivalent,
1:02:54
OK? So like a 9 horsepower go Kart,
1:02:56
It's like a 90 horsepower car, OK.
1:02:58
A 30 horsepower go Kart, it's like a 300.
1:03:01
Horsepower Car. Right.
1:03:02
You know, so now a 45 horsepower go Kart, it's like a 450
1:03:06
horsepower car, right, Right, right.
1:03:08
On a small track. So if you showed up on your
1:03:11
first day and say I want to race and the first thing I put you in
1:03:13
is a 450 horsepower car, which falls is that?
1:03:18
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lifted or you're not going
1:03:20
racing again? Exactly, Exactly.
1:03:22
Or you're just really, really slow, right?
1:03:24
Because I mean, I had that like I, I would race 4 strokes and no
1:03:27
joke, I was faster than the shifter guys who were really
1:03:29
scared and really slow. And I was hustling the crap out
1:03:32
of my go cart. Like around the corner.
1:03:34
I'd just go around them and they would kill me on the
1:03:35
straightaway and then get to the turn and be so scared they'd
1:03:37
stop way early. And I'm just like, especially in
1:03:40
the rain. Just do do do do do do, right?
1:03:43
I like racing in the rain. Have fun, right?
1:03:46
So it was only since you built up a bit of experience, right?
1:03:49
My first tag race I just got thrown on the deep end in
1:03:52
because I had been racing 4 strokes for like 6 years and
1:03:54
then sorry what? What?
1:03:55
What's tag when you say tag? Race it's a it's a 2 stroke
1:03:58
class that is electrically start powered.
1:04:00
So tag actually stands for its touch and go.
1:04:03
So some go karts have external starters, the motor in the side
1:04:07
and you start them. Other of them have a button that
1:04:09
you just push the button and it starts.
1:04:11
Nice. I'm lazy, I want to push a
1:04:13
button. Yep, yeah, it was just great.
1:04:15
You turn it on and you start and you go.
1:04:17
It is. Great.
1:04:17
Everything to worry about, man. Right.
1:04:20
And they were, they were most tags, most tags are typically 2
1:04:22
strokes and most tags are typically 28 to 30 horsepower.
1:04:25
So on car terms, 280 to 300 horsepower, right?
1:04:29
Yeah, we. Prefer 44 stroke or two stroke.
1:04:31
02 stroke, 2 stroke every day, all day all the way right.
1:04:35
I just I they they Rev really high, they sound great, they
1:04:38
make a lot of power. They are fun.
1:04:41
So what I found is I like to drive cards that need me, right?
1:04:45
Versus things that are so slow they don't need me, right?
1:04:48
Right. You know, I enjoyed racing more
1:04:50
Formula. I enjoyed racing 4 strokes.
1:04:52
Like I had a great time. It's not OK, but they were kind
1:04:56
of boring, you know? Like I never wanted to just do a
1:04:59
lap on my own. I just if.
1:05:01
They were able to race. I'd race them and if there's no
1:05:03
one there, I'd go home, right? Where when I was in my tag,
1:05:06
anytime I could be on the track, I was on the track, OK, right.
1:05:09
So I was like, let's go. I want to drive it now.
1:05:12
I would say for me, it's hard going to a racetrack just to
1:05:15
watch. Oh.
1:05:16
I hate it is literally my least favorite thing.
1:05:18
It is bar none, my least favorite activity.
1:05:20
Like for a couple of reasons. One, because I have this
1:05:22
background of grassroots knowledge where I know a lot.
1:05:25
And so it's very frustrating when you're just watching
1:05:27
because you want to do it because you can do what they can
1:05:30
do and you're not doing it. So I I hate it, right, But also
1:05:33
I like doing it so much that like at least give me something
1:05:36
to do. At least give me like, let me
1:05:38
spot for someone, coach for someone, how, you know, do
1:05:41
something. But just having me sit there.
1:05:43
I watch a lot of racing, my dude.
1:05:45
I don't need to watch more like, you know, So, yeah, I always
1:05:50
have a hard time. Yeah.
1:05:51
No, there's something I'd rather go watch something new and
1:05:53
novel, right. If I'm just gonna do nothing.
1:05:56
Like, you know, actually, when my I first got married, I took
1:05:59
my wife to the IndyCar races just this for fun.
1:06:01
It was important. We went.
1:06:03
She'd never been to a professional motor race, so we
1:06:05
went to one and she had fun. But the one thing she said when
1:06:08
she came back was she's like, I have more fun watching you race
1:06:11
than watching other people race. Yeah, Yeah.
1:06:13
And I was like, I mean, like, married the right person, but
1:06:17
like, not not right. For sure.
1:06:19
Right. And so.
1:06:21
And she's closer to the action. You know you're in the action.
1:06:25
Not even closer. You're in the action.
1:06:27
Well, and also we felt like our successes were something we'd
1:06:29
done together. So, you know, my, my wife never
1:06:31
really likes to drive, but she likes to win.
1:06:33
She's very competitive. And so she, she's a great pit
1:06:36
boss. She'd make sure I had water,
1:06:37
she'd make sure I had, you know, fresh tires.
1:06:39
She'd go through the checklist for me to make sure the car was
1:06:41
safe. So we were kind of working
1:06:42
together. And when I was driving, she'd be
1:06:45
going through the pits just paying attention to what other
1:06:47
people are doing and like, giving me information.
1:06:49
You know, this guy, his head's all messed up.
1:06:51
He's just not really in it today.
1:06:53
This guy, they're, they're fighting in the pits.
1:06:54
They're arguing over there a lot.
1:06:56
So I'm sure if you're aggressive with him on the racetrack, he'll
1:06:58
fold over, right? Things like that.
1:07:00
You pass that guy and he's mad about it.
1:07:01
Keep doing what you're doing. OK, Good to know.
1:07:04
And so I would take all that data and it would help me on the
1:07:06
race track because I'd be like, oh, there's that guy that hates
1:07:08
it when I pass him. I'm going to chase him for a
1:07:10
while because he hates it when I'm behind him.
1:07:12
So I'm going to stay. Here it was fine.
1:07:15
We could do it together. It was something we could do
1:07:16
together. So my wife was one of those
1:07:19
people that she said that I could only keep first places
1:07:23
after a while. OK.
1:07:24
So I was always the big motivator is, you know, I would
1:07:26
come home with seconds and thirds and she's like, I don't
1:07:28
want to fill my garage full of crap.
1:07:29
So you're only allowed to keep first place trophies or
1:07:32
championships. And I was like, OK, so the the
1:07:35
running joke was I had to win because I wanted to take this
1:07:37
one home, All right. And so now, you know, like my
1:07:40
trophy cabinet over here has only like a fraction of the
1:07:43
trophies I've won. Because right, right, right.
1:07:45
Nice, awesome man. That's, that's awesome.
1:07:47
So now you're down in Texas now, and you're racing down in Texas.
1:07:52
Yeah, I'm largely doing Sims coaching down here, you know,
1:07:55
for a little while I took a break from on track running
1:07:59
because we need to afford to get a house.
1:08:01
So, you know, I we need to save to get a house.
1:08:03
So we got a house. I've got a Civic that I've been
1:08:05
working on as a track day car on and off.
1:08:07
You know, my eventual goal is to get back to the real racetrack
1:08:09
too and start doing that work again.
1:08:13
But that didn't mean that I could stop racing.
1:08:16
So I started my own league at 1st and then I started a
1:08:18
coaching service called Advisory and I started coaching people in
1:08:21
SIM because, you know, back to our earlier point, it's a very
1:08:25
broad and accessible environment in the same raising community.
1:08:28
A bunch of people all over the place that all have computers
1:08:31
that all get on these services that don't know what they're
1:08:32
doing. And you know, I tried to create
1:08:35
a service that you can have free information for me that shows up
1:08:39
when I feel like talking about it.
1:08:41
You can have self help information that you can buy for
1:08:44
a nominal amount if you want and teach yourself.
1:08:47
Or you can work with me one-on-one and I can coach you
1:08:50
directly, right? And you kind of pay at the level
1:08:53
that you were willing to consume.
1:08:56
OK. But you know, I'm, I'm a big
1:08:57
proponent of like you spend money on stupid stuff all the
1:09:00
time, coffee, random things, like it's great.
1:09:03
Like I'm not not ashamed of anything.
1:09:04
But like, you know, most of my courses are like 5 bucks, right,
1:09:07
Right, right. A cup of coffee is $5.
1:09:09
Would you rather spend $5 on something that permanently
1:09:11
improves your driving ability, or something that's temporary?
1:09:14
Right, exactly. That's good.
1:09:17
That's a good price for sure. I'll let you make that choice.
1:09:20
I'm not forcing you. I'm not.
1:09:21
Look, I'm no one's making you do this, but I want it to be
1:09:24
accessible. I want it to be approachable,
1:09:26
right? And you know, I don't want to
1:09:29
price people out to be like, oh, you want to be good at playing
1:09:31
this game. You have to pay 100 bucks an
1:09:33
hour. Right.
1:09:33
I mean as as as we were talking about the the largest schools.
1:09:36
I mean it is a huge amount of money to to have a 2 day course
1:09:41
at A at a lot of places between hotel, AFA, rent a car,
1:09:48
insurance. Insurance.
1:09:50
You know if in and that's when you're not even bringing your
1:09:52
bike, right? Exactly.
1:09:54
Exactly. And as far as when it comes to
1:09:56
two wheels, so it's, it's like I said earlier, 15-2 minutes ago
1:10:00
or less, no, it's cool what you're doing and putting your
1:10:04
time out there and, and giving people something that's that's
1:10:06
reachable rather than, you know, saying, you know, man, I mean,
1:10:12
and I was like racing, you know, since 2013 and I took the class
1:10:16
in 2022. So like always looking at that
1:10:20
price, I'm like, I'm that's a whole season of racing right
1:10:23
there. If I, if I do two classes,
1:10:25
right, that kind of thing. So, you know, to have to like to
1:10:29
have stuff online and be able to learn online.
1:10:32
Like, you know, I have been able to, or, you know, buy programs
1:10:36
that are like, you know, 50 bucks and you have access to
1:10:38
this wealth of information and, you know, it has been helpful
1:10:42
and it helped my ride and help me get to a point to where it's
1:10:45
like, OK, now let me go to one of these schools and, and see,
1:10:48
cuz I, I'm not a novice. I know what's going on.
1:10:51
I fix a couple of things and you know, and and you know you.
1:10:55
Know you're gonna pass it right and you just kind of be quiet
1:10:57
and go through the activities and get the thing.
1:10:59
You know, I learned that, you know, I was scared of the apex
1:11:03
cuz I was always like, you know, a foot away.
1:11:08
What are you scared of? Were you scared?
1:11:09
Leave. Your body over the apex, you
1:11:11
know, you know for sure. 100% yeah.
1:11:14
So nobody of mine used to race bikes.
1:11:17
And I would never go to the track to just watch him because
1:11:19
I like letting cross this lunary things.
1:11:21
And that's one of the things he told me.
1:11:23
He's like, you know, getting used to the lean and actually
1:11:24
using the sideways of the tire for grip was a challenge for him
1:11:27
at first. He's like, what do you mean?
1:11:28
I gotta lean over to use more of the tire, right?
1:11:31
And I was like, that's why I don't ride motorcycles.
1:11:33
But good to know. Yeah, and and the same thing.
1:11:37
I'm still working on the the edge of the tire and that and
1:11:41
I'm planning to do more. Not doing more cuz I haven't
1:11:43
done any but do mini GP on bikes.
1:11:46
Yeah to get to get comfortable on the edge of the tire before
1:11:50
jumping on something. They have a lot more power.
1:11:52
Look man, the journey's never over when you're working on
1:11:54
skills development, right? You think Lewis Hamilton's not
1:11:56
working on his driving when he's driving?
1:11:58
You think Chapman's not working on his driving when he's
1:12:00
driving? They're all working on the
1:12:01
driving, it's just that they've been doing it for 25 years and
1:12:04
they do it at such a high level that most of us can't even
1:12:06
understand. So we see an F1 car driving
1:12:08
around and they just think it's like all perfect all the time
1:12:10
and it's not. We just don't know what we're
1:12:12
looking at. It's fine, but like, just to be
1:12:15
fair about it. Exactly, no, it's you know, as
1:12:20
as to talk about accessibility of the sport.
1:12:22
It's you know, and and Lewis Hamilton is a great story
1:12:25
because there his family sacrificed a lot and this sport.
1:12:29
I hit that formula to get there. I can only imagine and you know,
1:12:33
it's it's a sacrifice that that happened for for him and to be
1:12:37
able to get there. But the kid was, you know, he,
1:12:40
he had, he had a remote RC cart in his hand probably like at 3-4
1:12:43
years old, so. Yeah.
1:12:46
Yeah, you know, and that's, that's all helping.
1:12:49
Right. But what I tell people all the
1:12:50
time is like, you know, there's a whole bunch of racing between
1:12:53
RC and Formula One that you could do, right?
1:12:56
That I don't want to discourage you that you're not a multi
1:12:58
millionaire, but you can't drive an F1 car.
1:13:01
Look, here's a Miata, enjoy yourself, you know, even me
1:13:04
Odyssey be expensive now, surprisingly, but still like
1:13:06
here's here's or here's a SIM like, you know it.
1:13:09
It says something I think about the sport of SIM racing now that
1:13:12
people are using SIM racing as driver development channels to
1:13:15
get people into real cars. You see a lot of programs all
1:13:18
over the place now that are sprouting out.
1:13:19
Yeah, that are. Happened and he's he has one
1:13:22
right and he's promoting and he's on, you know, camera
1:13:26
promoting the SIM world and stuff like that.
1:13:28
So it is, it's, you know, I, you know, we've seen I, you know,
1:13:33
the herd of the guy, the, the kid there that, you know, got
1:13:36
the seat from the, the Gran Turismo game.
1:13:40
And, and, and I figured his name now, but you know, he's still
1:13:43
racing and, and, and, and, and just having that knowledge,
1:13:49
right. Because, you know, again, like,
1:13:50
I, I mean, I was, you know, I'm probably 10 years older than
1:13:53
you, give or take. So, you know, I was, you know, I
1:13:55
was playing Dataris in the 80s and stuff like that to kind of
1:13:58
see where the gaming world is today.
1:14:01
It's like you'd never fathom like, oh, I can play this game
1:14:04
and one day actually end up in the car.
1:14:06
Yeah. But I'll leave you with this
1:14:08
though. So there's a lot of other
1:14:10
disciplines where simulators are more readily accepted, right?
1:14:14
Commercial air travel, submarines, astronauts,
1:14:18
construction, you know, it's just, it's just more widely
1:14:21
accepted that people use simulators to train themselves
1:14:24
on the discipline. With car racing, because you and
1:14:27
I could buy a car, we invalidate it because that's just how the
1:14:31
human condition works. Because.
1:14:33
I clearly can't be that important.
1:14:34
So then then you're semi stupid now.
1:14:37
And I'm like, no, it's still a tool that can be used like and
1:14:41
it doesn't line up 1:00 to 1:00 because nothing replaces
1:14:44
practical experience. You know, like when people come
1:14:47
to me all the time. Well, it's not a replacement for
1:14:49
real seat time. Of course not dummy.
1:14:51
That's not what it's for. It's an augment for seat time to
1:14:55
get you out of those crappy bad habits of like driving on a cold
1:14:59
tire like an idiot or not knowing where the line is or not
1:15:02
knowing how to stop right. That we can put you in a real
1:15:05
car and you skip all those steps real fast because you've already
1:15:08
gotten through it. Yeah, I mean, you know, listen,
1:15:10
if you take a cooking class and if you memorize the recipes
1:15:14
ahead of time, cooking is a lot easier.
1:15:17
Way easier, way easier, man, right?
1:15:19
And that's what I tell a lot of folks is like, look, we don't
1:15:22
have to live in this binary world of just because you have a
1:15:25
SIM doesn't mean you can't do the other things.
1:15:28
And the real, if we're being real about it, if you wanna be
1:15:30
the best driver you can be, you wanna be doing all of it.
1:15:33
Or you want to be in a formula car, you want to be in a, you
1:15:35
know, you want to be driving as much.
1:15:36
You want to be doing rally. You want to be on snow, you want
1:15:38
to be on ice. You want to be, you know, you
1:15:39
want to do as many things as you can to get as much muscle memory
1:15:42
as you can in your body so that nothing phases you.
1:15:45
Now, is that physically possible for a lot of folks?
1:15:48
No. So you know what?
1:15:49
Get yourself a SIM to start. Right?
1:15:53
Yeah, no, I, I completely agree, man.
1:15:55
I I I definitely agree. But I think we're a little bit
1:15:58
over time, you know, I tell folks how they can find you and
1:16:04
your, your program. I mean, 'cause I can keep
1:16:06
talking cars and dude, I look, I will talk to them.
1:16:10
Yeah, exactly. So it's easy to find me at Apex.
1:16:12
'S Davin is all my handles. So you'll find me on TikTok, on
1:16:15
Threads, and a few other folks. My blog is apex-advisory.org, so
1:16:21
you'll get my coaching services on there and I have also have a
1:16:24
blog up with a bunch of articles on there.
1:16:26
And yeah, those are the two places you can find me.
1:16:28
If you type in Devon Sturdivant, you'll find me pretty easily.
1:16:30
I'm the only Devon that talks about racing.
1:16:31
So yeah, for sure I will say one thing.
1:16:36
Exercising, how much is that play into?
1:16:39
I mean, not the SIM, obviously, no, even the SIM.
1:16:41
No, even in the SIM man, there's a lot of cardiovascular.
1:16:44
Activity that you're doing while you're in the SIM, you know, a
1:16:46
lot of feet loading, a lot of arm loading for two or three
1:16:49
hours at a time. Sometimes if you're doing races
1:16:51
back-to-back or even the enduro races, we're spending a lot of
1:16:53
time in the car, right? That physicality is really
1:16:56
important and it helps. Just what it does is it in the
1:16:59
sin, At the very minimum, it reduces the amount of bandwidth
1:17:01
that your body needs to do things right.
1:17:04
So, you know, if I'm raising you and you're in shape and I'm not
1:17:07
in shape, it's not the fact that you'll drive better than me, but
1:17:10
you'll drive better than me for a little longer.
1:17:12
You'll make smarter decisions for a little longer.
1:17:14
You'll start messing up a lot later, right?
1:17:18
And so still I like, I go for walks, I go to the gym, you
1:17:20
know, I do, I do my things, I need to do more of it, right?
1:17:24
But, and when I was go karting, it was huge because it was such
1:17:26
a, you know, the Kart is such a physical thing, right, That I
1:17:30
could beat a lot of people just on physicality.
1:17:31
I didn't even need to drive that hard.
1:17:33
I just needed to drive until they got winded, right?
1:17:36
So you do 80% of what you could do until they kind of got tired,
1:17:39
they'd back off a little bit and you'd pick up and leave.
1:17:40
I didn't need to be the fastest guy.
1:17:42
I just needed to be not out of breath.
1:17:46
That's it. It's it's, you know, work
1:17:48
smarter, right? Nice, man.
1:17:52
Well, I appreciate you coming on.
1:17:54
I appreciate what you're doing for the racing community on four
1:17:57
wheels. It's nice to see what you you're
1:18:00
doing out there. And I appreciate it.
1:18:01
And I'm pretty sure we'll be talking more and hopefully, you
1:18:04
know, we'll, we'll spend another hour and 18 minutes to give her
1:18:07
shake. Yeah, talking, talking, talking
1:18:09
cars, man, because we, we haven't even dived.
1:18:11
Into like suspension. Stuff or nothing.
1:18:14
You know all the all the other fun stuff anytime you want to
1:18:17
man. I appreciate you inviting me.
1:18:18
If you have a slot you need to fill just hit me up all.
1:18:20
Right, no doubt. I appreciate man Davin from Apex
1:18:23
Advisor. Appreciate man.
1:18:25
Thank you. Peace.