Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Your Employees Don't Experience Pay the Way You Do: Dallas College's Eric Rodriguez on Trust, Transparency, and Treating Employees Like Customers
Transcript
- Kelsey Willock (00:42) Welcome Eric Rodriguez, Deputy CHRO at Dallas College. We are excited to have you this beautiful February day. So before we get started, Eric, would you mind sharing a little bit about your career and background, where you're calling in from, and your current role today? Eric A Rodriguez (00:58) Sure. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. ⁓ I'm really looking forward to the conversation. ⁓ I've spent most of my career, ⁓ started off in sales and quickly moved into kind of an intersection between people ⁓ pay and really how most organizations are trying to build trust with their employees and their workforce. ⁓ I currently serve as Deputy CHRO in a senior HR leadership role in higher education, ⁓ overseeing all of HR operations, shared services, HRIS and the quality insurance and improvement out of Dallas, Texas. ⁓ A big part of my focus is really helping organizations really move from how we are developing programs and really more into how are we looking into ⁓ providing much more effective and operational excellence within our organization, trying to build a better employee experience. ⁓ A lot of how I think about ⁓ systems and really how we create processes is really more around how are we really supporting our employees day to day. ⁓ And so for me, if I look at ⁓ how I think about compensation or ⁓ other things related to our employee experience today. It actually just goes back a little bit to some early lessons about how I started looking at work and how it relates to compensation. Kelsey Willock (02:35) Well, I'm really excited to dig deeper and I have already many, many questions for you because I'm particularly excited to learn more about your career coming from academia because you're not only supporting a workforce, you're also supporting the next generation of the workforce. But before we dive into those questions, I want to get to know you personally a little bit better. So if you'll indulge me, I'd love for you to share with us your earliest memory of money. Eric A Rodriguez (03:03) That's a good question. ⁓ I think my earliest memory about money was ⁓ really more around sacrifice. ⁓ I remember I spent a lot of time with my grandparents and I would ask my grandmother, hey, you know, where are my parents? They're not around as much. And she was always trying to explain to me how hard they were working to ensure that we had everything that we needed. ⁓ so for me, every time I thought about, know, what you would do for money, was really just the sacrificing of time with family, ⁓ sacrificing of time as, you know, things that you would like to do, ⁓ not only as a child, but you know, parents wanting to do things with their kids. So as a kid, I think, you know, you don't really understand what money is from an economics perspective. It's more understanding the effort that goes into obtaining it. ⁓ one of the things that stuck with me was, that, and every paycheck or anything that I would earn represented, ⁓ not the value of the currency, but more the effort that people don't really see. and I think from that perspective, it's really shaped how I think about, ⁓ compensation or even benefits, ⁓ today. Kelsey Willock (04:26) I love that perspective and it's even bring up memories of me as a child just waiting for parents to get home. And so often we think about the dollar amount that we're receiving in a paycheck and we forget it's also the time that we give. So it's a really unique answer. I've asked this question to many folks and often it's, know, the lollipop at the bank or whatnot. So I appreciate you sharing that with us. Eric A Rodriguez (04:32) Mm-hmm. Kelsey Willock (04:53) Can you tell me this? Tell me about your first job and what you did with your first paycheck. Eric A Rodriguez (04:59) Yeah, my first, I wouldn't say it's a first paycheck. had, ⁓ think I've always been very curious and had a entrepreneurial approach to things. And I think I saw a lot of that in what my parents would do. ⁓ But my first experience before I got to the paycheck was really just going out and trying to organize ⁓ with my friends and including my brother, a car wash. And what we would do was, you know, go throughout the neighborhood and knock on doors and asking our neighbors, Hey, you know, would you be willing to allow us to, ⁓ wash your car for $5? And, we had probably about five that one day that we did it. so I was so excited to be organizing and planning a here I am. think I was around 11 or 12 years old. ⁓ I'm going to start my first business and, that experience really taught me about ownership. ⁓ some of being assertive and really taking initiative early on, more around taking control of some of the things that I wanted to do as a person. And that really showed me that, hey, there are certain things that you can do where you don't rely on a paycheck. You are in control of your destiny in a way. But then I went on and as I got a little bit older, my first real job, a structured job was at a grocery store. ⁓ Back then, think customers were still... ⁓ I don't think customers give tips today. If you go to the grocery store, I mean, I'm not... I don't see that as often. ⁓ But back then, customers would tip you when you help load groceries into their cars. ⁓ And those tips reinforce something to me that I found very powerful. It was really around ⁓ customer service and the fact that, you know, what you do, you do have an impact on others. And it's really related to how you are willing to service them. People respond to that effort a little bit differently. And the attitude that comes with it, where they're not looking so much at, there's a certain value that I think people appreciate. And in some cases, I remember at some point, I think I was earning at the time somewhere around $4 an hour or something like that. and to see that I was getting tips based on the level of service that I was providing anywhere between five to $20 just for taking out groceries and loading someone's car. That to me was really stuck with me quite a bit. Kelsey Willock (07:41) And do you recall what you spent on either of those first paychecks? Eric A Rodriguez (07:46) I, there were so many things that I was, I wanted to make sure I had, you know, the latest clothing. ⁓ I was trying to save up for my first car. ⁓ you know, just being able to go with my friends and say, Hey, you know, let's go have some ice cream or go out and eat something. And it was on me, ⁓ because I was probably the only one in the group that, that had, you know, was earning something. So, it felt very, ⁓ Kelsey Willock (07:48) Thank Eric A Rodriguez (08:14) I had a feeling and a sense of independence ⁓ at 15, 16 years old where, Hey, I can really do this. And it built a sense of confidence in me that ⁓ my mindset kind of shifted from, I don't really know what I'm doing. You know, I don't know how I'm going to show up to a structured job where someone's telling me how to do things very specifically versus me just going out and trying to wing it. ⁓ but it gave me a sense of that independence, a structure, and that there is a process around everything that you're doing. It's all about how you want to approach it. And obviously the mindset has so much to do with that. Kelsey Willock (08:57) I couldn't agree more. I deeply believe that your mindset is the single most important thing within your control that can predict your future outcomes. There are so many things we can't control, but how you show up and how you feel and how you show up really matters, even if it can seem like such a small thing. So you touched on it briefly, but I want to dig a little bit deeper. Eric A Rodriguez (09:06) Mm-hmm. Kelsey Willock (09:25) How do you think your money story, whether it's this experience of understanding money in terms of sacrifice or your first job working in a grocery store, how do you think that has influenced how you think about pay and benefits and showing up for your employees? Eric A Rodriguez (09:42) Yeah, I think ⁓ when I look at, least for me, money doesn't represent, again, I go back to money. People look at money from a, guess, based on your personal experience or your background, people have many different ways of looking at money. For me, you know, it represents stability. It represents a sense of security. ⁓ There's a dignity that goes along with that. ⁓ I think today because of social media, it's kind of thrown around that, you know, people are doing things where it seems like, you know, you have endless amounts of money. And, I think the approach to it is very different than what it used to be. ⁓ but when I think about pay and benefits, it's really more about building trust and a level of predictability that in many cases, many ⁓ folks are not privy to. if Sometimes I think, you for many organizations, compensation or a benefits plan, ⁓ you're trying to solve for so much that you overly complicate ⁓ the structure of what you're trying to solve for. And with that comes a sense of poor communication, a lack of transparency and a much more simplified approach to understand that you as an HR or compensation professional understand things very differently than the employee that just wants to remove all of this HR jargon ⁓ and really just wants you to spell it out straight for them so they can clearly understand and move on. ⁓ Because that creates a sense of anxiety for most employees. And I know that, you know, I engage with our employees quite a bit and try to ask as many questions as possible around some of the things that they're seeing. And in many cases, you it's hard to hear. But at the same time, I open, I'm glad to hear the honesty ⁓ because it's very important for us to stay close with our employees and really try to solve for their needs. Kelsey Willock (11:53) Yeah, and this over-complicating factor is benefits and pay gets more complex. Even if we spell it out overtly, large documents to consume information, it's not always the actual human behavior that people have. So keeping that human element, allowing people to really be transparent and say, I couldn't read the 60-page benefits fair. I'm confused about how do I think about retirement. ⁓ So I love your point on it's really about building trust so they can come to you if they don't understand something and they don't withhold. Not overly complicating helps establish trust because it means you understand that they need, you know, just to be told point blank how things are and what's really going on. Eric A Rodriguez (12:42) I mean, the way I see the employees, they don't experience compensation ⁓ the way that a compensation professional does looking at spreadsheets, right? Their experiences is really more about that effort we talked about and also the stability in their lives. And so that's where I think that, you know, we really need to focus on and bring into the work. Kelsey Willock (13:07) So looking ahead, where do you think compensation and benefits are breaking down most often today? It sounds like I'm hearing a little bit about transparency. What else are you seeing? Eric A Rodriguez (13:19) ⁓ Obviously, I think ⁓ there's a breakdown when you're looking at systems and the communications and they're not aligning. I think, like I said before, I think many of these plans, we try to solve for way too many things and we overcomplicate the overall intent. ⁓ To me, I always try to, when I think about many of the processes, not only from compensation perspective, but just overall operational is... you know, what are we trying to solve for and what is the most simplified approach to solving for that issue or that concern? ⁓ Communication, what you typically see happens very late in the process. And to me, that's one of the most important things that we should be doing is having communication early on in the process. Number one is understanding from a leadership perspective, what the organization is looking to solve for. ⁓ The other part of the communication is understanding for what the needs of our employees are so that we can bring that to the attention of leadership. Leadership may think they know, ⁓ but the employees are always signaling something very different. ⁓ And I think when you're looking at most of these plans, what typically you see is ⁓ most compensation professionals will have one experience at an organization and it was successful and they will try to take that same experience and apply it to the new organization. Right. And for me, it's always important for us to ⁓ keep in mind the fact that every organization is going to operate very differently. I always tell my teams, you we can look at what best practices looks like, but best practices looks like very differently for every organization. And it shouldn't be something that we're immediately trying to instill, but it is a goal because as we mature, as we grow, as we continue to learn, what the needs of our employees are, we're going to constantly be improving and ensuring that we are applying best practices based on those needs. Kelsey Willock (15:22) It's such an important reminder that you really do need to customize how you think about an employee population because it's not this one size fits all in any capacity. You mentioned a really interesting point on leadership and communications. I'm curious if you've seen success on kind of bridging that gap because I'm hearing the same. What leadership sees in terms of ⁓ how employee populations are feeling or what's really Eric A Rodriguez (15:32) screw. Kelsey Willock (15:52) going on, there can be a large gap between the two. So how have you bridged it? ⁓ I think it can be really interesting learning for our listeners. Eric A Rodriguez (16:01) Yeah, I think, you know, again, the more important, ⁓ at least for me, I'm constantly trying to understand what are the needs of our employees? What are some of their pain points? ⁓ And as we look at the different programs that we're trying to implement, ⁓ it's really more around making sure that we're retaining the talent that we have. How are we attracting the right talent? Make sure that we understand the demographics and or the target group that we're looking to to attract. And in many cases, as you look at, ⁓ you know, most of our employees today, what I keep seeing is that there's this shift, right? Where they're looking more to the why behind the work. And I think from a leadership perspective, we're seeing a shift in how we lead, understanding that the old ways of leading where there wasn't so much of a why, it was more of, you know, let me tell you what needs to get done. ⁓ we need to be mindful that leadership, just like anything else, ⁓ does require ongoing continuous learning and effort. ⁓ And for me, it's really important that we show up ⁓ very differently than what we used to as leaders, ⁓ because employees, I think, are moving away from this corporate ambition or... a form of saying, I've got this title. And so therefore it's creating this identity for myself that I'm now closely aligned to. And then something happens and they feel lost. They no longer can connect to that identity. And so right now what you're seeing is most people moving toward this world of, I want to be in an autonomic, you know, have that autonomy to be able to do and feel the way I would like to. ⁓ And if you look at a lot of the things that are going on with AI and how technology is moving, that really is an indication of where we're moving towards in the future. So what are we doing as leaders to really take a look at how we combine what most of our employees are really looking for and using the technology and AI to be able to create ⁓ that human collaboration with intention. Kelsey Willock (18:23) It reminds me of a conversation I recently had. I was interviewing a woman about ⁓ her satisfaction as an employee and was asking, what would make you happier and what was really interesting, what would make you happier and what has your employer done to make you happy? And what she had mentioned was so interesting. She was satisfied on pay and the employer had actually said, we're gonna sponsor you taking a class in AI. That was so valuable to her beyond what an increase in pay could have been because there is so much value into that learning. So it completely supports what you're saying because we need to think about why are people showing up? In some cases, it's because they want to develop themselves. They want to learn. Of course, they want to put food on the table and those things too. But it's more complex than just one thing. Eric A Rodriguez (19:19) Absolutely. Yeah, I if you go and ask the employee or anyone for that matter, hey, you know, how do you feel about how you're being paid today or your salary structure? There's always going to be the comment of, hey, I always want more, right? Anyone always always going to talk about that they want more. I think the intention is, you know, what are we as an organization or even as leaders trying to move away from that type of conversation and really getting to the core of what they actually want to accomplish as individuals. To your point, many of them want to be developed. ⁓ In many cases, most organizations miss that mark. They don't invest in personal development, right? Or if it is an investment in development, it's not the development that the employee is specifically looking for. And I think, you know, we just need to lend the ear to really understand what are our employees really looking for in order for us to be really effective ⁓ in retaining that level of talent. Kelsey Willock (20:15) How do you think you keep such a strong ear to the ground? it in surveying? Is it making sure that managers have open line of communication? Where have you specifically seen success within your organization? Eric A Rodriguez (20:31) I think surveys always give you an indication. ⁓ I think as leaders, it's really important for us to be able to not be afraid to ask very specific questions of our employees. In many cases, we may not always get the type of response that we're looking for, but you're starting to build a ⁓ culture of curiosity. You're really ⁓ providing employees with a sense of, you know, I keep getting asked questions from my leaders and I think they're being very genuine about trying to understand what we're looking for. And so for me, I think it's really more of kind of creating that culture, creating a sense of empowerment for employees where they understand that, you do have ⁓ the right and the ability to come to the table and ask us questions ⁓ or let us know what are some of the things that you are seeing because we do want to improve the employee experience. What does that look like for you? We have, can have an idea of what the employee experience should look like, but at the end of the day, again, it's called an employee experience for a reason, just like the customer experience. and I think all of that really stems from, you know, when I started my career, like I said, I, early on, I had that entrepreneurial approach. I started off in, in sales and really always focused. don't, I never thought I was a great salesman, but One of the things that I really focused on was really understanding the needs of my customers and then being able to go and find how do I fill that gap? And it's the same approach that we have as an HR professional. Our C-suite comes to us to better understand what's going on. We can do it through surveys, but for me, it's really important. How are you engaging your employees and are you asking the right questions with intention? Kelsey Willock (22:25) I just want to pull out that quote that you had said, how are we treating our employees like our customers? It's so important that you need to be satisfying them as an employer for them to show up and do their best work. So it's a great. kind of flip the nail on the head, we spend so much time thinking about how to get into our customer's shoes. But sometimes we need to back up and really say, let's make sure our employees feel equally as supported, if not more, to make sure they end customer, then therefore get supported. Eric A Rodriguez (22:48) Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Kelsey Willock (22:58) So I want to give you a little bit of a chance to talk a little bit about some of the things that you've brought to the organization or changes you've seen that you're particularly excited about that have moved from just attracting talent to really transforming the lives of your employees. Eric A Rodriguez (23:14) Yeah, I mean, one of the things that ⁓ we started to do is really looking at how do we transform HR. ⁓ And through this transformational journey, we've done a lot of work in trying to ⁓ establish a ⁓ way of working where we're really looking at implementing ⁓ problem solving, a mindset around problem solving, critical thinking and continuous improvement. ⁓ My whole goal has been how do we truly operate with excellence ⁓ by finding how we can be much more effective and more efficient in everything we do. That goes from the way that we conduct meetings, the way we schedule meetings, the way we actually speak within our own HR functions. ⁓ We talk about our three pillars of HR, which are our employee experience center, our COEs and our HRBPs. ⁓ How do we engage ⁓ and really ⁓ create a sense of collaboration, partnership and communication in order for us to really be effective and efficient with the services that we are offering our employees. ⁓ I think for me, because of my experiences and my background, I look at things from a business perspective and not just I'm in HR and we're all administrative and transactional. It's more around You know, we're not about just, you know, how to attract a certain talent or retain our employees, but how are we sustaining their lives? Again, we go back to the effort that they are putting in on a day-to-day basis. You don't see what sacrifices they're making. And so for me, when I look at what the future of HR is eventually going to look like between technology, AI, know, we, as the human component of human resources, It's how are we designing, ⁓ where both of these two things are actually combined in how we are working together and not separating the two. think there's a lot of fear around AI. It's going to take over my job. And for us, we're taking some, really strong stands and, and leading with how are we training our employees? How are we preparing them to. utilize AI, how are we encouraging them to use AI? And in many cases, some folks, ⁓ don't really understand what that means. And so we've ⁓ established trainings, in order for us to be able to promote that, encourage it, but also educate our employees around how you can. implement AI in your day to day, or it's not a danger to your role, but it's more of an enhancement and a level of creating efficiency around it. Kelsey Willock (26:13) Yeah, I imagine equipping them with that knowledge helps relieve a lot of the fear because when something is a black box, it can be so scary because we don't know what's inside. So it sounds like there's a major initiative on your end to open that black box up and say it's really there to support you. It's there to be something to help you improve rather than to replace you. I love that perspective. Eric A Rodriguez (26:18) Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Kelsey Willock (26:38) probably know the answer to this next question, given we're already heading down the topic of AI, but still want to know your perspective. What compensation and benefits trends do you think will shape the employee experience most over the next year or two? Eric A Rodriguez (26:54) Again, I think the kind of goes back to ⁓ my earlier comment around the why, right? I think there's still, you you hear a lot in the news around HR leading on AI. ⁓ You hear a lot about the return to work or return to office, some of the challenges around that. ⁓ And I think, you know, leaders are coming to terms with, you know, how do we best maneuver ⁓ and still be effective in this new way of working? ⁓ Many leaders are still challenged with, you know, seeing employees as an asset. They need to be present. I need to see them. I need to be able to engage with them in a face-to-face ⁓ and are not leveraging the technology that we have available today in the way we should. ⁓ That has created a lot of frustration. I think it's created a lot of anxiety for our employees. In many cases, some of our employees are asking to come to the office because their personalities are around. I need to be out of my home. I like to be around people, et cetera, et But I think as most organizations and leaders, we need to understand how are we becoming much more flexible ⁓ in a new environment that COVID, whether we wanted it to or not, kind of pushed us ⁓ to really transform how we work ⁓ and how we approach the way of working. in a, in a, in an environment where now employees are struggling with going back to pre COVID days. and so I think for when I look at, just leadership in general, it's more of how are you showing up with a much more flexible approach, still remaining empathetic, still understanding and keeping a core focus on what your employee needs are. How are you really coaching your employees through some of those difficult conversations? But how are you also understanding their needs in order for you to be able to support and still have them engaged in a level where you're still seeing high performance teams, you're still seeing high levels of productivity. ⁓ And I think that's one of the biggest challenges that we're seeing today. You know, I go on to YouTube or even social media and there's so much on this topic. And it's very difficult for you to say, ⁓ this is the way we're going. ⁓ But when you take a step back, you say, well, Obviously there's a lot that needs to be done and it has to be treated very differently. Kelsey Willock (29:24) Kind of goes back to what you originally had said of every organization has its own unique needs. So at some organizations, bringing back folks that were working from home into an office makes complete sense because they prefer to. In other populations, I imagine that feedback is very different. No, I want to be at home. So it starts with the listening and then building. You know, how do you create this environment that is flexible in alignment with their needs? Eric A Rodriguez (29:29) Mm-hmm. Kelsey Willock (29:54) So it has been phenomenal speaking with you, Eric. Thank you so much for joining us in this conversation today. As a quick recap on some of the great insights that you've shared, loved how you kind of kicked off by sharing pay and benefits is really all about building trust. not overcomplicating things, it's about creating true transparency and letting people know that HR is really there to meet them where their unique needs are. I also loved how you had shared that communications is really the most important thing because if not done right, it can cause so many trickle-down breakdowns. I also really heard you mention the importance of understanding the why behind the work our people do. And it requires a lot of listening and a lot of ongoing learning, but there is really so much value behind understanding that why. And then kind of lastly, I'd love how you'd mentioned the importance of showing up for our people and creating more flexible, empathetic, and understanding environments so they can really truly be high performing teams. So thank you again so much for being a part of this conversation. The last question I'll leave you with is where can our listeners connect with you beyond this conversation? Eric A Rodriguez (31:13) ⁓ you can always reach me on LinkedIn. I'm fully available. get requests all the time. ⁓ I'm more than happy to engage folks in conversation and just kind of share my thoughts. ⁓ cause I do the exact same thing. I reach out to folks and it's really more for me to learn from you, ⁓ as much as you know, you can learn from me. So, ⁓ thank you for the invitation. I really enjoyed our conversation today. Kelsey Willock (31:41) a good one Eric. Speak soon. Thank you so much. Eric A Rodriguez (31:43) Thank you, Kathy. Bye bye.