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Transcript

Want to Thrive in Your Career After Kids? Here’s How One Woman Crushed It (And Even a Cancer Diagnosis Hasn’t Stopped Her) · Work It Like A Mum

• 0:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: My husband and I were kind of.
• 0:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: We were thinking how do we improve our life, how do we have, you know, better holidays?
• 0:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: How do we, you know, just that, more, I guess, more money, how do you get?
• 0:11
  Nicola Lee: more money coming in.
• 0:12
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, how do you get more money?
• 0:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: yeah, and how does it all not become so tight?
• 0:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because it was really tight, it was hard.
• 0:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, how are we going to pay the window cleaner?
• 0:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: All things like that were really, you know, it was intense and we both looked at our careers and we both looked at our organisational structures and I had the opportunity to move up and he didn't.
• 0:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Where he worked in a public sector, there wasn't an opportunity for him to move up.
• 0:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: And so he said to me OK, you're it, you'll need to move up.
• 0:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I was like, ok, because there just wasn't anywhere for him to go.
• 0:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: The person above him wasn't going to retire and whereas for me they were looking at putting structure in.
• 0:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you know, he said to me there's an opportunity for you, you should like you go for it and I'll be here pushing and we'll both reap the benefits of it.
• 1:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that's what we did and that all happened after we set those goals.
• 1:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: It happened really quickly, like within about two years.
• 1:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: Opportunity had just presented itself and we had grabbed it.
• 1:21
  Nicola Lee: Hey, I'm Elizabeth Willits and I'm obsessed with helping as many women as possible achieve their boldest dreams after kids and helping you to navigate this messy and magical season of life.
• 1:33
  Nicola Lee: I'm a working mum with over 17 years of recruitment experience and I'm the founder of the Investing in Women Job Board and Community.
• 1:42
  Nicola Lee: In this show, I'm honoured to be chatting with remarkable women redefining our working world across all areas of business.
• 1:49
  Nicola Lee: They'll share their secrets on how they've achieved extraordinary success after children, set boundaries and balance, the challenges they've faced and how they've overcome them to define their own versions of success.
• 2:02
  Nicola Lee: Shy away from the real talk?
• 2:05
  Nicola Lee: No way.
• 2:05
  Nicola Lee: Money struggles, growth, loss, boundaries and balance we cover it all.
• 2:09
  Nicola Lee: Think of this as coffee with your mates the mixed with an inspiring TED talk sprinkled with the career advice you wish you'd really had at school.
• 2:16
  Nicola Lee: So grab a cup of coffee or a glass of wine and make sure you're cozy and get ready to get inspired and chase your boldest dreams, or just survive Mondays.
• 2:28
  Nicola Lee: This is the Work it Like a Mum podcast.
• 2:31
  Nicola Lee: This episode is brought to you by Investing in Women.
• 2:37
  Nicola Lee: Investing in Women is a job board and recruitment agency helping you find your dream part-time or flexible job with the UK's most family-friendly and forward-thinking employers.
• 2:49
  Nicola Lee: Their site can help you find a professional and rewarding job that works for you.
• 2:54
  Nicola Lee: They're proud to partner with the UK's most family-friendly employers across a range of professional industries, ready to find your perfect job.
• 3:03
  Nicola Lee: Search their website at investinginwomencouk to find your next part-time or flexible job opportunity.
• 3:12
  Nicola Lee: Now back to the show.
• 3:14
  Nicola Lee: Hi Nicole, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 3:17
  Nicola Lee: I'm so excited to have a chat with you and learn more about your career.
• 3:21
  Nicola Lee: So can you just talk us through your early career and what were your career aspirations when you were at school?
• 3:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: So when I was at school, I definitely wanted to be involved in beauty and makeup and I sought that out.
• 3:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: After school I went to college and then when I left college, I started working in beauticians and I really didn't like it and the reality of working in an environment that you'd been studying towards.
• 3:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: I just didn't like it.
• 3:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't have a good experience.
• 3:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I found myself without a job, which I'd always had a job, I'd always had a part-time job and my mom and dad, always installed in, is about working and earning money.
• 4:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: And so I got a job in Slater Men's Wear, which was a men's wear store in Glasgow very famous at the time, and I got a job about two weeks at Christmas, covering really good money, and I really enjoyed it and they kept me on and I stayed five years and it was amazing.
• 4:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: I was what they called a shart and tie girl, which sounds a little bit sexist, but when somebody bought a suit, they then came to this big, huge table and I matched shart and ties and I had all these wonderful, beautiful, glamorous women around this table who were all sort of in their kind of late 20s, early 30s, all embarking on marriage and children, and I was this really young 18-year-old that just loved clubbing and they taught me so much, and two of the ladies in particular I still speak to, gail and Jackie and they just had such a great mentoring and coaching approach.
• 4:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: They would just give you advice and they would tell you.
• 4:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, if you'd, maybe if I didn't get a sale, then they would give you advice and they would be sort of like, oh, you didn't do that, that wasn't the right way to do it, you should have done it like this.
• 5:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was always like next time you get asked that question, why don't you offer this product?
• 5:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you're kind of like, oh, that's a really nice way to put it.
• 5:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I've stayed there five years and I loved it.
• 5:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: They were amazing.
• 5:18
  Nicola Lee: And why did you leave then?
• 5:19
  Nicola Lee: What prompted you on?
• 5:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: Again money, I think, just wanting to be more, to be better.
• 5:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: And a friend's got a job where there was better money and it was selling advertising space in a free magazine newspaper and yeah, it was just more money.
• 5:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I went and it's really funny because the first morning I was there I just knew that it wasn't the environment for me, it wasn't where I could grow and learn and develop.
• 5:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: And, yeah, I didn't enjoy it, I didn't stay long.
• 5:49
  Nicola Lee: So that was cold calling them, was it?
• 5:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, it was cold calling, which I didn't mind.
• 5:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can find a nice way to talk to people and people knew that you were going to be cold calling them because they had businesses so they would always talk to you.
• 6:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I didn't like the sort of structure of the feedback or I didn't like how the office was ran.
• 6:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was very, you know, sort of like you had to be in at a certain time and out at a certain time.
• 6:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: You had to be at your desk.
• 6:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: There was no flexibility and you know, even just going to the toilet and stuff like that were like really intense and I just didn't like this sort of almost like scaring environment to get performance.
• 6:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: I did not like that at all.
• 6:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: I just didn't enjoy it.
• 6:28
  Nicola Lee: It sounds like, like recruitment.
• 6:30
  Nicola Lee: You know, when I first jumped and I think, agencies I don't know if they're still like this, but definitely when I first started in a recruitment agency, it was very much like that.
• 6:37
  Nicola Lee: You had to be in when I was working.
• 6:39
  Nicola Lee: I was half eight to six, but if you were half eight to six and they use this as a derogatory term that you were a part-timer.
• 6:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, that's terrible, isn't that crazy?
• 6:47
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, and you were really expected to be in a about quarter, you know, quarter past eight till about quarter past eight, at least.
• 6:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I always remember watching people who got on really well with the management team and I couldn't understand how they were doing it.
• 7:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I know now that they were in earlier and they stayed later at night and they played the game.
• 7:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, they played the game, which I didn't know at that point what the game was.
• 7:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I was kind of like I was just doing my hours and doing what I was asked to do.
• 7:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: So, yeah, I just didn't enjoy it and, looking back, it just wasn't a nice environment at all and everybody around about male females, everybody was tense.
• 7:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was a very tense, stressful environment and people had mortgages.
• 7:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't have a mortgage.
• 7:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: I stayed with my parents and I just thought this is just not for me.
• 7:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: But my mom again was always very much you can't leave a job if you don't have a job.
• 7:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I had to go.
• 7:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: I remember I used to cry in the car park in the morning because I had to go in.
• 7:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: But, yeah, grit, I think determination, just okay, I have to go and find something else.
• 7:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: And my health suffered a little bit and I was off and I found a job in a timber merchant which was just unheard of.
• 7:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: We were right at the this was in the sort of mid 90s we were all glamourously clubbing and my friends were like you're going to what kind of timber merchant?
• 8:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: Are you the only woman in that timber merchant at that time?
• 8:06
  Nicola Lee: I wasn't.
• 8:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: I was reflecting on that last week after we got today sorted out and I was just reflecting on how many females.
• 8:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I think it was mainly because, if you think about it, we just sort of moved on to it systems a lot of the females in the branch and there was five females.
• 8:26
  Nicola Lee: And I mean I don't know how many with the total, but that sounds like a fairly good additional number.
• 8:31
  Elizabeth Willetts: It does.
• 8:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: But they all did admin, you know, because we used to hand write all the invoices out and then charge them to customers.
• 8:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: So they did a lot of admin work and then slowly they moved into sales.
• 8:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I had been in sales in sleep to menswear that was what my job was selling and the manager who interviewed me just said that he'd like to give me a chance.
• 8:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't know anything about Tim Bird at no end, about products, not necessarily, sure.
• 8:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: 28 years later I know that much more.
• 9:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, he just said I just want some personality or trade counter and I think you can bring that.
• 9:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: So sales has quite a bad rep, doesn't it?
• 9:09
  Nicola Lee: People think of the cold callers that call you unsolicited, but actually if you have a nice sales experience as a customer, you enjoy that.
• 9:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and a lot of the cold calling I did was, as I say, people that had businesses, so it was builders.
• 9:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you were saying to them you know, I've got an advert space, it's 250 pound, would you take it?
• 9:30
  Elizabeth Willetts: And if they said no, they would always say, why don't you for me next week?
• 9:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: Can I make take it?
• 9:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: Then you know, and so you did build a relationship.
• 9:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that's what a lot of life is about, isn't it?
• 9:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's about building relationships, you know, and that that was what was great.
• 9:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I started in Harcross, who were then bought over by Jusson.
• 9:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: And yeah, lo and behold, we're 28 years later and I'm still there.
• 9:53
  Nicola Lee: You've still got a sales though, aren't you?
• 9:54
  Nicola Lee: I mean, I know you've moved up now.
• 9:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I'm back in sales and I don't think you ever leave sales.
• 9:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: So even when I was working in HR and IT and all of those sort of departments that really you know help move the company forward, I think you're always in sales because it's always about personal personality and being personable with people, being approachable, listening, having empathy and all of those roles.
• 10:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think I enjoyed them because I could apply those skills to them and those are there, my skills that I have really.
• 10:27
  Elizabeth Willetts: So what?
• 10:27
  Nicola Lee: was it like when you first joined, doing 96 and you had it with the no product knowledge?
• 10:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was awful.
• 10:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had to ask the questions every day what is this?
• 10:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: And people have their own language for building materials.
• 10:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: So every day they would ask for something and it would be completely different to what they'd asked for the day before, but it was the same thing.
• 10:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: It just they had their own language.
• 10:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was crazy.
• 10:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had a really nice supervisor, johnny, and I had a gentleman, paul, who's still working the business today, next to me and they were really patient and they explained everything and I made like already reckoners and I had less add a daybook and at the back of the daybook I wrote everything down that I'd asked, so pricing and ways to find things on the computer system, just to be faster.
• 11:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I did go through a long time of not having a queue of customers.
• 11:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: So in that time the landscape of the builders merchant was very different because it was only really kind of like two or three main builders merchant.
• 11:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you were really busy.
• 11:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: There was always a queue of people.
• 11:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: Today's landscape it's much more diverse.
• 11:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: There's a lot of independence, there's a lot of the bigger brands of you know sort of moved into trade environments and so yeah, I was remember everybody else having a big queue and I didn't add this really sad queue of like one person who would give me a chance.
• 11:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: So yeah, it took about three to six months to kind of really get myself moving and then, once you do, you just think, okay, this is a nice industry, I'm learning.
• 11:57
  Nicola Lee: Do you think it was because you were a woman and the builders I mean this is probably me, my prejudice them.
• 12:02
  Nicola Lee: You know bias men and they wanted to deal with men.
• 12:05
  Nicola Lee: Or do you think they could tell you and you?
• 12:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, 100%.
• 12:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: You had to know what you were talking about and at the start you just don't know that.
• 13:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: You just you know you're slow and it's not as fast as like McDonald's.
• 13:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know where you can learn just a really small menu.
• 13:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: Most branches keep 3,500 products, you know, so you can be asked for anything at any time and typically you just you had to really kind of use your personality to sort of say look, I don't know it, but this person next to me does, and when he stops serving he'll tell me what it is.
• 13:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: And you know how are you today and what you're up to and just try to be personable.
• 13:30
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, a lot of people get frightened, don't they, of that going into a job and not knowing it's that imposter syndrome, isn't it?
• 13:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, and I don't think really imposter syndrome really leaves you even.
• 13:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, when I was running an area of 14 branches and I had reached probably pinnacle of my career as being what we call the role, an area director role, and and I'd really, I'd really achieved that and it was a huge achievement.
• 13:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: I was the first female, you know, area director in Scotland and that had ever been, and it was amazing achievement.
• 14:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I still felt you know somebody going to find me out.
• 14:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know I'm a, you know.
• 14:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I think sometimes imposter syndrome doesn't really leave you.
• 14:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's just about acknowledging that and accepting that sometimes you are going to have those days where you do feel like maybe you know, and I used to have meetings with you know regional directors who would say, oh, we've gone another week, have not been found out, you know, and you would kind of have a joke about it, but I do think that and it's very real for females, I think, in any working environment.
• 14:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, you do think you know, how did I get here?
• 14:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: Do I deserve to be here, and it's, and I would really like the younger generation to come through feeling like they deserve to be there.
• 14:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think it's really interesting.
• 14:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, women only really started working in the 1950s and if you think about how far we've come in those sort of 75 years, you know we've came so far, we've achieved so much, you know, and it's only been really a short period of time.
• 15:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's not even 100 years that, you know, women have been in the workplace.
• 15:03
  Nicola Lee: you know so, so you're managing now and we're probably jumping ahead.
• 15:07
  Nicola Lee: But how do you then, you know, are you quite conscious of that with your team and talking them through and coaching them through their imposter syndrome?
• 15:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I think it's about just acknowledging what you know and also making sure that what you don't know, you just say I don't know that and I'm going to find out.
• 15:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I think if you're up front and honest about it, then people respect that and nobody's ever going to say to you like a customer or a colleague's never going to be upset with you if you say, well, I don't know the answer to that, but if you give me five minutes, I know a person who will and then go away and find the answer and come back to them.
• 15:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's really important to say to do what you say you're going to do and almost have that as kind of like what's imprinted inside you that that's what you're known for and I think I've built a career of really networking and having contact.
• 16:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: So if I don't know the answer, I'll find somebody that does.
• 16:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: And sometimes people phone me just to say I don't know where else to go with this.
• 16:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I thought I would phone you and I'll say I don't know it, but give me five minutes and I'll phone round and I'll come back to you.
• 16:15
  Elizabeth Willetts: And as long as you go back to them, then that's a big part about you're not an imposter.
• 16:21
  Elizabeth Willetts: You're a credible person, so obviously your early career.
• 16:25
  Nicola Lee: you started in a branch and how did it sort of move up then to now?
• 16:30
  Nicola Lee: What's your job title now?
• 16:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yep, so now I'm a sales manager.
• 16:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've been sales manager running a team of sort of direct reports of eight who work across an area so they look after a group of customers each and they had very different job roles, so some of them were desk based, some of them are specialisms.
• 16:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, I think I get just that one for more.
• 16:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: I just wanted more.
• 16:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wanted a flat.
• 16:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wanted.
• 16:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: Then, when I had a flat, I wanted a house, and then, when I had a house, I wanted a house with two bathrooms and just that.
• 17:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: Really I didn't really think that I was ambitious really until my friends sort of started seeing it back to me and that was probably, as you know, kind of only really in the last sort of 15 years where they've talked about how ambitious I was and that's quite interesting.
• 17:19
  Nicola Lee: So that's how old your children are, isn't it?
• 17:21
  Nicola Lee: Are they 15?
• 17:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, my girls are 15.
• 17:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: They'll be 16 in April.
• 17:26
  Nicola Lee: Isn't that interesting there, because a lot of women get rid of it, often after they've had children, and it sounds like that ambition.
• 17:33
  Nicola Lee: Well, obviously it became more noticeable.
• 17:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, you know, yeah, no, that's a great yeah, that's a great point.
• 17:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had this amazing moment where I went back to work after having the girls and I sort of thought I went back to my job, which was a great job.
• 17:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: I was a sales coach at that point, so I was coaching people on, you know, their sales and listening to phone calls and then giving them feedback, and it was really good, I really enjoyed it.
• 17:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I just thought I could do more.
• 17:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I looked across that sort of males and females in the office and in the organization and I thought, you know, I think I could get a job or I could get a bonus.
• 18:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think I could get a job or I could earn more.
• 18:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think I could be part of the senior team really trying to shape the business and shape where we're going.
• 18:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that all I kept thinking, honestly, was I've had two babies and they were six weeks early and now I'm back to work in their nine months and they're, you know, they're thriving and they're, you know.
• 18:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I just remember thinking that was a huge achievement that I had done with my family, with my husband, with the help of lots of people around about me, and I had brought these two humans into the world with my husband, and so if we survived that, then why could I not do more?
• 18:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: And honestly, from that moment I took a couple of chances.
• 18:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: I took a job that I thought was completely different.
• 18:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, when you apply for a job and you get it and then you start doing it and you think, well, this is nothing like I thought it was going to be, and I had this real sinker swim moment and I just kept thinking, look, I've had these two babies and I've got through that and I'll just keep going.
• 19:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I did, and I've really not looked back in the last 15 years.
• 19:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's been really, really enjoyable and I work with a great group of people who have changed over the years through, you know, redundancy, retirement, things like that but ultimately I just seemed to be around good people who want you to do well and I want my team to do well.
• 19:27
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you know, my job as a manager is to help you fulfill the best that you can absolutely be, and when you get stuck, it's pointing in the right direction and giving you just that gentle bit of advice of maybe you know what I would do in that situation, but the job as a manager is to excel and to be the best that they can be.
• 19:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: That's, do you think?
• 19:48
  Nicola Lee: your children will go into styles.
• 19:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I think definitely.
• 19:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think one of them could definitely go into sales.
• 19:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: Jesus chat is me.
• 19:56
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, I've got one like that.
• 19:57
  Nicola Lee: One could, I think could go into sales, and the other one I think it would be the worst job ever.
• 20:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: Like what?
• 20:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: No, I'm not doing that, but it's really interesting watching them sort of pick subjects and I think you know I always wanted to be that sort of.
• 20:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know I wanted to be a makeup artistry and that never really worked out.
• 20:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: And now I'm in cut something completely different and I wanted to show them that they can.
• 20:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: At any age, you can do anything, you just have to enjoy what you do.
• 20:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know that's really important.
• 20:26
  Nicola Lee: So obviously twins.
• 20:27
  Nicola Lee: I mean, what was the early days like?
• 20:29
  Nicola Lee: Did you have a lot of support?
• 20:31
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, loads of support.
• 20:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: So initially, as soon as I found out I was pregnant with twins, my mom and my father-in-law both asked if I was going to go back to work, which I was going to go back to work because we wanted to sort of stay in the house we were in and we needed the two wages coming in to be able to afford it.
• 20:48
  Elizabeth Willetts: And they both said that they would go into sort of early retirement and help us.
• 20:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: So we were really lucky and I really enjoyed a look back really fondly at that time.
• 20:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: Work, you know, not being at work and being able to be at home.
• 21:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: And it was hard, you know.
• 21:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: Some days it was lonely.
• 21:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: I fed the girls for three months.
• 21:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: I found that really difficult, just that, you know, am I doing enough?
• 21:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: Am I eating enough?
• 21:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: Am I drinking enough water?
• 21:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: Should there be a routine, you know?
• 21:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: And now it's really funny when colleagues have children, you know.
• 21:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can sort of see what one of my colleagues has got a baby girl who's just started teething and I was like, oh, I know it's horrible, isn't it?
• 21:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: Like you just feel like you've got a really good routine and then they break a tooth and you're just like this is bananas, Like how am I going to cope?
• 21:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, the help definitely, you know, helped come back to work and being able to focus at work, and I couldn't have done that really without my mom and my father-in-law really stepping up, and my husband, stephen's always been a great support.
• 21:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: We've always sort of we've been together 30 years and we've always, you know, sort of like had a game plan of what we were going to do and then worked our way through it.
• 21:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: And he always said, you know, I'm not going to be very good with the little babies because they were tiny, tiny little babies, premature.
• 22:05
  Elizabeth Willetts: But he said, once they get to toddlers I'll really step up.
• 22:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I have to say he's got such a brilliant relationship with both of them and as teenagers he's probably you know, he's sometimes a person that they will go to first, which is, I think, a nice thing.
• 22:19
  Nicola Lee: Absolutely.
• 22:20
  Nicola Lee: It sounds like you're quite into it Because I know we were going to talk about it a bit like his manifestation, because you sort of said you've got this plan with your husband and I know we're going to talk about your degree as well.
• 22:30
  Nicola Lee: Is that something you've come across before?
• 22:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: And yeah, and I was kind of late to the, you know the manifestation and I can't even say the word properly.
• 22:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, I was, you know I.
• 22:40
  Nicola Lee: I think it's like did a course on it recently, which is quite I was watching Dragon's Den and they were people Ronnick, pitching about this manifestation.
• 22:47
  Nicola Lee: I think they've done it.
• 22:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: And it is really interesting and I think it's good for people to have something you know that they can go to and learn and really write goals.
• 22:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: But it comes down to you know really setting objectives.
• 23:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know if you think about any.
• 23:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know decent appraisal that you've had in your life or you know positive meeting.
• 23:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know all of those experiences will start and end with objectives.
• 23:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: And how are we going to get there and really setting smart objectives?
• 23:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know how are we going to do it?
• 23:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: What does good look like?
• 23:19
  Elizabeth Willetts: And probably about seven years ago my husband and I were kind of we were thinking how do we improve our life?
• 23:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: How do we have, you know, better holidays?
• 23:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: How do we you know just that, more, I guess, more money.
• 23:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: How do you get?
• 23:34
  Nicola Lee: more money coming in.
• 23:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: And how does it all not become so tight?
• 23:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: Because it was really tight, it was hard.
• 23:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, how are we going to pay the window cleaner?
• 23:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: All things like that were really, you know, it was intense and we both looked at our careers and we both looked at our organisational structures and I had the opportunity to move up and he didn't.
• 23:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: Where he worked in public sector, there wasn't an opportunity for him to move up.
• 24:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: And so he said to me okay, you're it, you'll need to, you'll need to move up.
• 24:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I was like, okay, because there just wasn't anywhere for him to go.
• 24:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: The person above him wasn't going to retire and whereas for me they were looking at putting structure in.
• 24:20
  Elizabeth Willetts: So you know, he said to me there's an opportunity for you, you should like you go for it and I'll be here pushing and we'll both reap the benefits of it.
• 24:30
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that's what we did and that all happened after we set those goals.
• 24:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: It happened really quickly, Like within about two years, opportunity had just presented itself and we had grabbed it.
• 24:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: And, you know, I'd started doing my post grad, I'd been promoted twice in that time and, yeah, it's very interesting when they talk about manifesting that ultimately it does just come down to what does good look like.
• 24:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: Where do we want to be, how are we going to get there, and who's best to leave a wreck?
• 25:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know who's best to push in that direction, and we, we tag teamed, I guess as well.
• 25:05
  Nicola Lee: It's not that you and your husband are brilliant team.
• 25:07
  Nicola Lee: I think that is definitely coming across that you're such a good team.
• 25:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, he is, he is very.
• 25:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: We do work well together and we have our moments, but it always works better when we communicate.
• 25:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think when we don't communicate well, then it all goes downhill fast.
• 25:22
  Nicola Lee: So talk to you can you do the post grad degree?
• 25:24
  Nicola Lee: What?
• 25:25
  Nicola Lee: How did that come about?
• 25:26
  Elizabeth Willetts: the company at that time funded post grads and so it was part of a development.
• 25:30
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wasn't my manager at the time, but he'd always been a really key person in my career Alan Davidson, who's now our regional managing director.
• 25:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: He had suggested that I do the post grad and I'd seen other people do it.
• 25:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: I really want it.
• 25:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't go to uni.
• 25:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: I really would like a degree and I think this is the way of me doing it and I could do the degree in remote management at the Birmingham City Business School.
• 25:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: And yeah, and I did that for a year and it was great.
• 25:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had to go to Birmingham for sort of like four days out of the project, so you went for two days at the start and two days at the end and then in between you did your work.
• 26:10
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, how did you juggle it all?
• 26:12
  Nicola Lee: Because you obviously had a full-time job, you'd just been promoted, you had the twins.
• 26:15
  Nicola Lee: How?
• 26:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: did you find time to do the post grad degree?
• 26:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I think the first thing I did was I befriended the lecturers and the PAs and the people that you would be sending your work to, and I really tried to sort of be personable with them and build relationships.
• 26:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: And what my thought process was was that if I submitted, you know, my dissertation on my work whatever it was the project then if I could get them to read it and give me pointers of how I could get a better score, a more improved score, then I could go away and work on that.
• 26:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: And so I did that.
• 26:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: That was my strategy.
• 26:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: And my strategy was really about as soon as I'd been to uni, we did the two days it was set out what the project or what the work was going to be around.
• 27:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: That weekend I got up at five in the morning and I worked before the twins got up and then on the Monday, met my paper and really and just asked for feedback.
• 27:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: And they would always come back with feedback and they would always say if you go and research this, right about it, if you change that paragraph, you'll get a better score, a better and more improved score.
• 27:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I always did that.
• 27:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: I always went away and studied.
• 27:25
  Elizabeth Willetts: I love TED Talks.
• 27:27
  Elizabeth Willetts: I thought they were really brilliant way of learning.
• 28:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: I love YouTube and just going away and learning, but they would point you in their direction and then from there I got really good grades.
• 28:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: And, yeah, I think, just being personable with people and saying I really want to do well here, putting yourself out there and if I don't do well, then tell me how I can be better, and that was kind of my mantra.
• 28:58
  Nicola Lee: You can certainly see why you've done sales, because it's all about relationships.
• 29:02
  Nicola Lee: You seem to thrive on building relationships with people.
• 29:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's all about relationships and having a relationship with the lecturers PA Debbie, to sort of just phone and talk about holidays that I had booked, or how would I do this lesson, or how would I do that lesson, and just how are you today and what's happening and just listening.
• 29:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: And yeah, it's all about relationships.
• 29:25
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, and then, obviously, a few years later, you had a bit of a, I know, before we got on a call, you had a bit of a well, not a bit of a hurt a massive, a massive hurdle.
• 29:33
  Nicola Lee: So do you want to talk to the listeners what happened in 2021?
• 29:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, thanks.
• 29:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I have found a lump in 2021 and because there was so much awareness around at that time, I was able to sort of have a good look at it myself in the mirror and I knew immediately that it was probably something not good.
• 29:51
  Elizabeth Willetts: I went to see my GP who was amazing and he referred me right away and, yeah, a two weeks later they told me I had breast cancer.
• 30:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was aggressive, stage two.
• 30:04
  Elizabeth Willetts: They didn't know at that time if it was.
• 30:06
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know what type of cancer it was.
• 30:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: It turned out it was hormonal cancer and I was lucky I could have it cut out and then they took away the lump and lymph nodes because it had started to spread and then from there I had radiotherapy.
• 30:24
  Elizabeth Willetts: I didn't need chemotherapy and I think sort of before that I'd had a bit of a sort of in the years before that, in like 2020, I'd had a bit of a sort of bump in my career where things weren't going quite well and I really mentally was struggling with quite a lot at home and I'd been to see a therapist again.
• 30:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: I was helped with the business they were amazing and I went to see a therapist.
• 30:49
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had only six short sessions with this wonderful therapist who really kind of just gave me cognitive behavioral therapy and I think without that I would have spiraled a lot quicker with the breast cancer diagnosis.
• 31:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: I mean, I did say you know, wt, what is going on.
• 31:08
  Nicola Lee: And you were.
• 31:09
  Nicola Lee: You know you used to be.
• 31:10
  Nicola Lee: I mean, you are young, you know what I mean.
• 31:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: So to get a diagnosis like that, I was, you know, 48 at the time, so I was young, it was really reflecting on it.
• 31:21
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's a bit like grief, you know, when you tell people you have cancer, you just it's just like telling them that somebody's passed away All of a sudden start to get their reaction to it and you kind of then are managing everybody else through it.
• 31:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, and a positive outlook is definitely, you know, it definitely helps you, it definitely helps you.
• 31:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think you know you can have really bad days and you can have, within 24 hours, really bad hours, and that's okay.
• 31:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: You can have really bad 15 minutes, but I think if you can recognize that your mind's dropped a little bit or you're just not quite there and talk yourself back into, you know, a positive mindset, I think that's a great lever to have and it's a great strength to have and I'm really responsible for myself and I have to have a positive outlook in order to get everybody else through it.
• 32:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think that's really important.
• 32:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: But again, it's okay to be like I'm really overwhelmed here and you know, and I think my husband Stephen, he was always very, because it was during COVID and you couldn't I went to all my appointments myself, I went to the operation myself couldn't have visitors.
• 32:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: I kept saying to him, like you know, I would come out of an appointment and I would say to him, oh, that wasn't great, and he'd go yeah, you're getting help, you're with the people that know what they're doing and they know much more about breast cancer than we do.
• 32:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: So let's just go with what they're saying.
• 32:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I really like that mindset that he had as well of just let's go through.
• 32:41
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, and we followed a lot of advice that people gave us.
• 32:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had friends that had sadly been through it and they told us what to do with the children and just being honest and setting them down and, you know, not hiding anything, and yeah, it was good, it was almost.
• 32:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: It was very bizarre.
• 32:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: Even when I had my radiotherapy I worked and I had a few meltdowns about coming back to work.
• 33:03
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had a really nasty burn after my last radiotherapy session, which is normal, and I had a bit of a panic attack about coming to work.
• 33:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: But my director, manager Douglas, you know he's just, he's got a brilliant outlook in life and I remember phoning him saying I was coming back to work the next week.
• 33:21
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I phoned him and said I don't think I can.
• 33:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had like this sort of almost mini panic attack and I was like I don't think I can, I'm really pain in a lot of pain.
• 33:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: And he was just like hey, it's fine, see how you feel Sunday.
• 33:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you don't feel like it, text me.
• 33:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: If you feel like it, I'll see you in a month.
• 33:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: And it was just, it's just that kind of relaxed.
• 33:38
  Elizabeth Willetts: So the pressure off, didn't it?
• 33:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: The fathomation, yeah, takes the pressure off Definitely.
• 33:43
  Elizabeth Willetts: Then you can make your own mind up.
• 33:44
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, and did you use to feel your breasts before you've discovered the lung?
• 33:47
  Nicola Lee: Is that something you always did?
• 33:49
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, I was probably aware.
• 33:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I definitely would say I was aware of my breasts, checking them.
• 33:54
  Elizabeth Willetts: I wasn't regular like all the time, like every month, but I know.
• 33:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I think at that point there had just been this huge push towards.
• 34:02
  Elizabeth Willetts: When you go into changing rooms, you know, you could see.
• 34:05
  Nicola Lee: Yeah, you see them all the time the priceless.
• 34:08
  Elizabeth Willetts: Kelly's program was a great.
• 34:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: She was doing a big awareness push at that time.
• 34:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: It just all the sort of stars aligned.
• 34:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: I guess at this the right time.
• 34:16
  Elizabeth Willetts: And and I knew from those images, seeing those images in dressing rooms, that you know when you lift your arm up above your head, if it depreciate, you know if it goes in the way, then it's not good, and that's what happened to me.
• 34:27
  Nicola Lee: So so what does it mean that it's hormonal?
• 34:30
  Nicola Lee: What was the outlook then for you after that?
• 34:33
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's almost like the and I'm no expert at it so I'll probably get it wrong.
• 34:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: But yeah, it can be like stress or, you know, just your hormones changing.
• 34:42
  Elizabeth Willetts: It could have been to do with birth control or all of these things.
• 34:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: They don't know what it was and they they try really hard to not get you to fixate on it was.
• 34:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know what it is, what caused it, because it can be so many things now, just in the atmosphere, you know, just in medication that we take and things like that.
• 34:58
  Elizabeth Willetts: So, yeah, they call it hormonal and then that meant that I could take a drug, which I do take, and that drug stops my cells from making cancer, which is really important because they know how to make it.
• 35:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: So they it was described to me as, once they work out how to make it in the cells, they don't know anything else to do, so they just make it and make it and make it, and it's just like our army in Veden and my job is to take the drugs so that it stops them making it really.
• 35:27
  Nicola Lee: And how long do you have to take those drugs?
• 35:29
  Nicola Lee: What is it?
• 35:29
  Nicola Lee: A fly for Five to ten years.
• 35:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, so I have a mammogram every year and and then I have a check up with the oncologist about the drugs.
• 35:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: The drugs are fine, they're OK.
• 35:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: I haven't had many side effects, if any at all.
• 35:44
  Elizabeth Willetts: So, yeah, I've been lucky.
• 35:45
  Nicola Lee: Because I know my friend had a hormonal breast cancer and then she had a hysterectomy and yeah, no, they seem they were able to stop it.
• 35:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: I had three lymph nodes that were all cancerous.
• 35:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: They took them away and then they ran more checks and they said it was fine and radiotherapy would just kind of nuke the cells round about and then that would be it.
• 36:05
  Nicola Lee: So has it changed your outlook on the accidents Having that diagnosis.
• 36:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yes, yes, that, and sadly I lost a friend to cancer who was 49, and that happened after I had breast cancer.
• 36:18
  Elizabeth Willetts: Jenny had cancer and was taken really quickly, within about eight weeks of finding out, and I remember my girls asking me you know what, how can you find yours and get treatment?
• 36:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: And Jenny can't.
• 36:34
  Nicola Lee: It's just life isn't it, it is life.
• 36:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think what that has done, those experiences.
• 36:39
  Elizabeth Willetts: You have to use the experience in life to learn from it, and that experience definitely is maybe learned from it.
• 36:45
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know everybody's just living a life.
• 36:46
  Elizabeth Willetts: You just have to live your best life that you can and do the things that you enjoy.
• 36:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: And there's going to be mundane things like organising the food shop and putting stuff in the slow cooker, making sure there's dinners for everybody, doing the swimming, drop off the pickup, but I definitely think going through breast cancer and definitely think watching you know a friend pass away, it definitely makes you have a brighter outlook on life.
• 37:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: There's no way it can, because you know life's very strange, isn't it?
• 37:17
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know we're here and then we're not.
• 37:19
  Nicola Lee: So when you strike me as a real go getter, like 100% like a go getter.
• 37:25
  Nicola Lee: So I think you know myself is that you don't have a time in the sort of embraced his life and embraces, I don't know, really just trying to.
• 37:33
  Nicola Lee: You know, I think the challenges in a way you sort of relish them because you seem to like not the best cancer necessarily, but I'm thinking about you know, in the graduate, postgraduate degree didn't seem to overly phase you and put your hands up for all the promotions and manifesting.
• 37:49
  Nicola Lee: You know, more money for a bigger house, better holidays, you go for things.
• 37:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I think it is something that I've always my aunts describe it as.
• 37:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've always worked, I've always wanted you know sort of more and I think you know just wanted nice things and a nice life, and by no means you know as well off as the next person.
• 38:10
  Elizabeth Willetts: But you know, I sort of grew up with a lot of you know what do the Jones have and what do they have in their garden, and in the 80s, you know, it was quite like that People had video recorders.
• 38:21
  Elizabeth Willetts: How can they afford a video recorder?
• 38:22
  Elizabeth Willetts: We can't.
• 38:23
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know there was a lot of sort of talk about money and talk about you know what we didn't have.
• 38:28
  Elizabeth Willetts: I think you know.
• 38:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I just I think I also probably wanted independence and watching my girls now they're so independent, I try and help them with things and they're like, no, no, it's fine, we've got it, we know what we're doing and you know and part of that's me as well so you have to let them go on with it, don't you?
• 38:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: So, yeah, no, I do appreciate that and I do think that I've really worked hard at having a career and forging a career in a building, you know, in a builders' merchant as well.
• 38:59
  Elizabeth Willetts: It's probably against all odds.
• 39:01
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I think again, if you just go back to the basics, which was just about how you treat people and building relationships and adding value every day, how can I add value?
• 39:12
  Elizabeth Willetts: How can we improve this?
• 39:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: How can we be better?
• 39:14
  Elizabeth Willetts: You know, I think those those kind of that mantra really has kind of kept me going.
• 39:20
  Nicola Lee: And so when you came back after your breast cancer, how did you sort of you know get your career going?
• 39:24
  Nicola Lee: I mean not that I know you'd worked all the way through, but I suppose find that momentum again.
• 39:29
  Elizabeth Willetts: Yeah, I think a lot of it was just going again back into data and looking at customers who had spent, who had spent a few new members of my team, and so you sort of throw yourself into inducting people and giving them the best start that they can have, and then that just all kind of naturally happened.
• 39:47
  Elizabeth Willetts: And we're a really busy organization.
• 39:50
  Elizabeth Willetts: We do tend to create quite a lot of work for ourselves, and so I think I've become a master at that.
• 39:57
  Elizabeth Willetts: Just really busy, really important.
• 40:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: I remember one day when I was twins we're about two and I came home from work and my mum said to me I understand that you have got a big job.
• 40:09
  Elizabeth Willetts: You've got a much bigger job than I had at your age with children.
• 40:13
  Elizabeth Willetts: But I just want you to know that when you're in the house you have to be present in front of your kids, because you know you just can't be on the phone, you just can't be trying to sort customer problems, or because your children, when they know that mummy is in the room, they just want their mum and that's it, and they want their dad when their dad's in the room.
• 40:32
  Elizabeth Willetts: And that was really good advice, because she said to me you know, as you come down the pathway, turn your phone off and that's it to the next morning, and then be present.
• 40:40
  Elizabeth Willetts: And I think that was really great advice to have, because otherwise you can be really important and busy somewhere else, can't you?
• 40:48
  Nicola Lee: But absolutely so.
• 40:50
  Nicola Lee: What's next for Nicola?
• 40:52
  Elizabeth Willetts: Oh, what's next for me?
• 40:53
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I think it is.
• 40:55
  Elizabeth Willetts: We want to do well.
• 40:56
  Elizabeth Willetts: So we've been brought over by an organization is very exciting.
• 41:00
  Elizabeth Willetts: A company from Denmark, stark, is bringing a lot of exciting change and we want to do well.
• 41:07
  Elizabeth Willetts: We want to become the market leader that I know that we can become.
• 41:11
  Elizabeth Willetts: So I'm going to continue to help us do that and at home I'm just going to try and keep my children in their sanity as they go through their netfives and keep communicating with Stephen, because that seems to work.
• 41:26
  Nicola Lee: It's been such a pleasure.
• 41:28
  Nicola Lee: I've absolutely loved our conversation.
• 41:30
  Nicola Lee: Thank you so much, Nicola, for joining me today.
• 41:34
  Elizabeth Willetts: Oh, thank you, it's been so kind.
• 41:35
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you so much.
• 41:36
  Elizabeth Willetts: I've really enjoyed it.
• 41:37
  Elizabeth Willetts: Thank you for asking me.
• 41:38
  Nicola Lee: It's been a pleasure Brilliant, thank you.
• 41:41
  Nicola Lee: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Work it Like A Mon podcast.
• 41:47
  Nicola Lee: If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review and subscribe, and don't forget to share the link with a friend.
• 41:54
  Nicola Lee: If you're unlinked in, please send me a connection request at Elizabeth Willett and let me know your thoughts on this week's episode.
• 42:01
  Nicola Lee: You can also follow my recruitment site, investing in Women on LinkedIn, facebook and Instagram.
• 42:06
  Nicola Lee: Until next time, keep on chasing your big dreams.