Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / How to stop sounding like everyone else. With Delia Monk

Transcript

How to stop sounding like everyone else. With Delia Monk · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

• 0:00
  But getting that email address is the second most powerful thing.
• 0:04
  Well, is the most powerful thing you can do if they're not ready to work with you.
• 0:08
  It's like the most powerful secondary call to action.
• 0:52
  I'm Becca Poutney, wedding business marketing expert, strategist, speaker and author.
• 0:58
  Over the last decade, I've combined my love of marketing with my knowledge of the wedding industry to help thousands of wedding pros and venues just like you learn new skills, strategize, get re energized and grow their businesses.
• 1:10
  Because after all, that's how you stay top of your game.
• 1:13
  Whether you're brand new into this industry or been here forever, I want to help.
• 1:17
  So grab a cup of tea or a cocktail, sit back and enjoy a brand new episode of my award winning podcast, Wedding Pros who Are Ready to Grow.
• 1:25
  Let's get going with today's episode.
• 1:31
  Today I'm chatting with Delia Monk, a copywriter who helps business leaders with their positioning and strategy.
• 1:37
  With a background in journalism and a short stint in travel, she took herself to Spain and went all in on writing.
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  Having been in business groups with Delia over the last few years, I've experienced her fabulousness for myself.
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  I cannot wait for you to get to know her today.
• 1:50
  Delia, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:52
  Thanks, Becca.
• 1:53
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:54
  It's an absolute pleasure.
• 1:56
  As I said, it's been lovely getting to know you myself and being in and out of different groups and things like that over the last few years.
• 2:02
  But now my lovely audience are going to get to find out more about you today and I can't wait for them to do that because I know you've got loads of good stuff for them to share.
• 2:10
  But before, before we go into the things you've got to share, I always like for my listeners to get to know my guests, mainly because I'm a bit nosy, but also I think it's helpful to know who we're
• 2:20
  learning from so that we understand your background, what you've done in the past.
• 2:23
  And everyone always has an interesting story to tell.
• 2:26
  So first of all, I mentioned it in the introduction.
• 2:28
  You've got a journalism background, so tell me more about that.
• 2:33
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:34
  So I used to work as a political correspondent on the Nottingham Post in the uk and I did that for like six years, which was amazing.
• 2:43
  I was like chasing politicians down the streets and interviewed Gordon Brown when he was Prime Minister and was the most hated person by Nottingham City Council, I think.
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  And that's where, I guess I really learned how to write for attention.
• 3:00
  Right.
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  When you're, when you're writing newspapers, it's like you have to write the headline that's going to make people pick up that newspaper and buy it.
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  And then the amount of space that you've actually got to write your story in is quite short.
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  So you know, I'd say there areas where I really learned like the powers of hooks and angles and storytelling and writing succinctly.
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  So yeah, I did that for a while and then I gave it all up to go traveling.
• 3:26
  Okay, so before you gave it all up, you're a political correspondence.
• 3:29
  Like what does that even mean?
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  Is there enough work?
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  Is it full time?
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  Are you day to day?
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  Are you just hoping that they do something scandalous for you to write about?
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  I mean there's, you're never short of a story in politics and you don't even have to hope they will do something scandalous.
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  It's just constant scandals.
• 3:47
  So yeah, I was full time working at the paper and this was back in the day before like newspapers.
• 3:56
  Well, newspapers were doing a lot better than there was a lot more money in newspapers.
• 4:01
  So it was a really thriving paper.
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  We had like teams of reporters and it really operated almost like a national, you know, we would have like three editions of the paper a day.
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  So that would mean that like the paper would change throughout the day as it was getting published.
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  So you could like knock yourself on the front page.
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  It was a very like hard and fast paced environment which I absolutely loved.
• 4:26
  And like we, you know, we were responsible for bringing in the stories.
• 4:30
  Right.
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  There's no like you've not.
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  Your news editor isn't.
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  I mean the newsletter editor will occasionally give you direction but normally it's like they rely on the reporters to bring the stories.
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  And so I had like my little black book of contacts and if I was short of a story, it's literally like, like old school.
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  Just be ring at people and be like, how you doing?
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  What's going on down there?
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  Got any girls?
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  Got any juice?
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  And then you got to turn that into something worthy of a paper.
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  And was this in the day when it was actually being printed rather than just pumping out stuff to go online on.
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  On.
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  Exactly.
• 5:06
  Yeah.
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  It was a really different environment.
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  And one of the reasons I left actually was because you know, when journalism changed so much over the years, like the Internet took over from printed newspaper advertisers started pulling out of printed newspapers.
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  Obviously it's no longer where the eyeballs are, where the money is.
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  And so the industry really, really changed.
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  But I was just at the end of the heyday, which was amazing.
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  So much fun.
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  I always talk about that when I worked in radio and tv.
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  I definitely was there at the end of the heyday as well.
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  It was probably similar kinds of time where there was still money for big parties and there was money for doing all of these exciting things.
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  And now, you know, it's all not like that anymore.
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  It's the world.
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  The world has shifted.
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  But it's a nice memory to look back on.
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  But I'm guessing, I mean, on paper it sounds like you're very successful, but there have been something underlying that made you decide to quit it and go traveling.
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  What was the thought process?
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  What was the plan?
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  So it was actually the decline of the newspaper industry that made me fall out of love with it.
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  Because like, like we just said then, the heyday you've got, there's money being thrown in the situation.
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  We used to go these incredible press trips.
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  It would be like four day press trip for free.
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  And all I had to do is write an article about it.
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  Like what the skiing and in the French Alps and all these like, like living the right life.
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  And then, you know, the industry shifted, the money disappeared.
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  We lost 50% of our reporters overnight.
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  I managed to keep my job, which I thought was amazing, but actually my entire job changed.
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  It was no longer about special investigations as a correspondent and getting to really get your teeth into something good and spend days investigating a story instead of.
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  Instead it became about like, right, we need to fill this newspaper now and we don't have enough reporters.
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  So it was like, you know, but by the end you're just, you just regurgitate, regurgitating stories that other people have discovered.
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  And I just fell out of love with it.
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  Like, all the things I loved about journalism that took me into it were no longer there anymore.
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  And so I remember I was 29 and I was like, what am I going to do next?
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  Because this was my dream job.
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  Like, I'd spent my whole life wanting to be a journalist.
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  My dad had been a journalist.
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  Like, you know, I grew up like him telling me stories about life on Fleet Street.
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  And it was always my dream to I guess follow his footsteps.
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  And suddenly at the age of 29, I was like, this isn't, this isn't what I, what it was, it isn't what I want anymore.
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  But I didn't know what I wanted to do.
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  So I did the most sensible thing I could think of, which was to just sell all my belongings and I traveled to China without taking A plane?
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  You traveled to China without taking a plane?
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  Okay, you can't just stop there.
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  Give us more information.
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  Did you walk?
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  Did you cycle?
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  Did you get a train?
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  How does one travel to China without a plane?
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  So we pretty much did all of the above.
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  There was boats going across the Caspian Sea, which is like a cargo boat that carries train carriages across the Caspian Sea.
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  That was fun.
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  We, we did all modes of transport.
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  It was like a challenge.
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  And we spent five months doing it.
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  So there was a lot of that country, a lot of that part of the world doesn't even have, like, trains and metros.
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  And so we'd literally be like, hitchhiking and sticking our thumb out and like jumping in some guy's battered old car for 200 miles, coming across Uzbekistan and camping in yurts.
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  But it was a really cool experience.
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  Like, and it was very much me and my reporter's notepad that came on the journey.
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  And I was writing about it and I was blogging and it was a real, like, you know, a delayed gap year, I suppose.
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  Okay, so you made it to China, you did your challenge and then what?
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  Did you stay there?
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  I mean, did you work?
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  What did you do?
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  So after that, as.
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  As I was approaching China, a friend from university got in touch and she was a partner of a travel company based in London.
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  And she was like, delia, our travel company really wants to expand into Southeast Asia.
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  Asia.
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  We're not currently operating holidays there.
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  I mean, you're so close.
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  You're in China, you haven't got a job, have you, at the moment?
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  So he was like, do you fancy coming on board, becoming a partner of the travel company and setting up Southeast Asia?
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  And the way it worked was like I would create it, create the destinations, do all the research, become a partner.
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  Which means that those became like my countries.
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  So, you know, everything I sold, I got to keep.
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  And it wasn't like coming on as a employee.
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  So it was really independent and really like, you know, again, similar to journalism, I've always been quite self motivated.
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  And so I was like, yeah, I'm down the road.
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  I'd be crazy not to.
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  I was like looking at the map, I was like, I mean, I'm just above Vietnam.
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  How about starting Vietnam?
• 10:10
  She was like, perfect.
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  Our customers are all begging to go to Vietnam.
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  What's coming out of this conversation so far, Delia, is that you strike me as a yes person.
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  A yes, let's see what happens kind of person.
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  Do you think that's an accurate description?
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  Because there's probably people Listening and thinking, wow, I would never have known where to start.
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  But you're definitely a.
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  All right, let's just give it a go kind of a person.
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  Is that right?
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  Yes, guilty.
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  100% guilty.
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  Like, I.
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  I think so often in life we're given these opportunities that just come along and when we say yes is when the magic happens, right?
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  That's when life changes and we do new things and we meet new people.
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  And yeah, I'm not an adrenaline junkie.
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  Like, you will not catch me doing a bungee.
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  Ju.
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  I get my adrenaline from saying yes to things like this.
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  I love it.
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  I think we all need to be a bit more deliorate in our lives because I think that, again, there's a lot of people listening who get these opportunities and they're no people or they're yes, but people, or they're
• 11:07
  maybe in the future people.
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  But actually you're right that sometimes just saying yes and being out of our comfort zone makes things happen and things can change.
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  It doesn't have to be yes forever, as you've proved, because as I said in the introduction, you're no longer working in travel.
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  So fill in the gap.
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  What happened next?
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  A long story short, I worked in travel for 10 years.
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  I grew the business from like, obviously zero.
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  My, when I say the business, my area, Southeast Asia.
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  I went on to create Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar.
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  And over 10 years ago, it from nothing to like half a million turnover annually.
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  And it was doing really well.
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  And I was really resting on my laurels and thinking, I've nailed this.
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  I had this dreamy life where I was just like going off and testing five star hotels all in the name of work for free, staying on the private islands where Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie stayed.
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  And really there I.
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  I don't want to say mastered because I feel like we are always improving.
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  I don't know if we ever master anything.
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  But that was where I really honed the skills of sales and market marketing, because I was running that for myself.
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  And, you know, if I, if I didn't push the sales, if I didn't push the marketing, I wouldn't make any money.
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  So.
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  And I just mentioned that because I feel that's relevant for what comes next.
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  So then it was 2020.
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  We all know what happened that year.
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  And Covid obviously meant it was like the worst possible time for travel.
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  You know, I would.
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  Many, many industries were hit by Covid, but travel was one of the worst.
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  Like, obviously all travel, all holidays stopped overnight and it was pretty traumatic, actually.
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  Because I'd just given birth to my daughter, and I was meant to be on maternity leave, and instead I had clients stranded in Southeast Asia.
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  I had clients ringing me like, demanding refunds, like, rightfully so.
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  But money was stuck in Asia.
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  It was a really, really stressful period.
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  And I managed to kind of get through all that.
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  And then I rem getting down to, like, last £20 in my bank account and being like, what the hell am I gonna do next?
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  Right?
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  Because I'd spent 10 years building this business up, and I live in Spain, right near Barcelona on the beach.
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  And I remember just standing at the beach and being like, what the hell am I gonna do now?
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  Like, I need money tomorrow to, like, put food on the table.
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  My husband had lost his job because of COVID too.
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  And I was like, okay, I'm going to write.
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  Without sounding too woo.
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  I feel like the ocean was like, right, Just right.
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  So I went home and I literally, in 24 hours, had a website freelance writer and shared it with all my friends and family on Facebook and was like, help a girl out.
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  Like, I've lost everything overnight.
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  But I know how to write.
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  You know, I used to be a journalist.
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  I can write anything.
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  I can write press releases, I can write this, I can write that.
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  And that was the beginning of becoming a conversion copywriter.
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  At the time, I didn't even know what conversion copywriter was.
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  That came a little bit later, like six months later.
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  But, yeah, that was kind of how that that change happened.
• 14:30
  You know what's interesting about that as well?
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  Going back to my previous point about you being a yes person, I think when people aren't a yes person, and I know there'll be a lot of them listening, they are so scared of what might happen that they
• 14:41
  don't say yes.
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  But actually, you said yes.
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  And then pretty much the worst thing that could happened, and yet you still found a way through it.
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  And I think that is a lesson in itself.
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  And, you know, I always say that to people, and then when they're not sure whether they should quit their job to go full time in their business.
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  And I always say, yeah, there's lots of things you can do.
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  There's checks and balances you can do.
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  You can save up money, but ultimately, at some point, you do have to take the leap of faith.
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  And if the worst happens, if you don't bring any money in, you can always go back and get another job.
• 15:11
  You can go and work at Tesco's.
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  You can go wash cars.
• 15:14
  You know, there's always a way, if you want to find a way.
• 15:18
  And so I'm sure it didn't feel like it at the.
• 15:20
  At that point when you were at your lowest, but now looking back, I'm guessing you can see how you were resilient in that and how it kind of took you to the next part of your chapter.
• 15:29
  My gosh.
• 15:30
  Yeah.
• 15:30
  And I'm so grateful for all these moments that have honestly left me, like, broke, penniless, and, you know, really wondering what comes next.
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  Because so often what comes next is the big thing that will push us forward.
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  You know, we.
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  It's a bit like, you know, like the tide.
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  The way the tide comes in and it goes out, and often before a big wave, it will pull you back, and it will.
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  You know, it'll be like, this is really, really hard.
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  I'm being pulled in.
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  I'm being pulled in.
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  I can't take any more.
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  And then it's like, whoosh, that massive wave comes, and that's when you can grow and evolve and step into what's coming next.
• 16:06
  So, yeah, we say that with the benefit of hindsight.
• 16:09
  At the time when I was, like, crying into the ocean, I didn't feel like that.
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  But you found a way.
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  You made it work.
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  You're not.
• 16:17
  You're not still on the street, penniless, not eating any food.
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  You managed to start building up the copywriting side of your business.
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  Now, you mentioned something just a minute ago about being a conversion copywriter, and that you didn't know what that meant.
• 16:29
  Well, I'm sure there's lots of people listening who also don't know what that meant.
• 16:33
  So just explain to us where.
• 16:35
  Where you got to in this copywriting, aside from just asking friends and family on Facebook and what that actually meant for you and your business.
• 16:43
  Yeah.
• 16:43
  So, like I said, started asking friends and family on Facebook, and then I was.
• 16:48
  And I was writing all sorts of odd jobs, and I was just barely making any money, and I was like, okay, if I want to make serious money in this, then I need to get serious about this.
• 17:00
  So I did a bit of research, and what I found out is basically, if you are writing to help people make more sales, so you are actually becoming like, the conversion engine in that business because you're using the
• 17:14
  power of words to help them sell more, to connect with their audience, and then you get paid more.
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:20
  Makes sense.
• 17:20
  Right?
• 17:21
  The closer.
• 17:22
  Here's a phrase, isn't there in life where it's like, the closer you are to the money, the more you'll get Paid kind of thing.
• 17:26
  So that was when I literally been writing articles for NGOs about Afghan pine nuts and literally being paid pennies to do it.
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  And I discovered that if I was writing to help businesses increase their sal, I could charge more.
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  So that is what conversion copywriting is.
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  It's where you're using words to actually help people make more sales.
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  So I went all in.
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  And this was like, end of 2020, I went all in and I went to like, what was Copy Hackers, which is the.
• 18:00
  Or was the best copywriting online school that there is.
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  I got one of the best copywriting coaches that there is.
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  She is amazing.
• 18:10
  Like, shout out to Amy Posner, she's so good.
• 18:13
  And I said to Amy, who I was working with at the time, like, I don't really have the choice of being mediocre at this because I've got a family to support and I've got a background in journalism, so
• 18:27
  I know I can write well.
• 18:29
  And I've spent the last 10 years working in sales and marketing, so writing for sales feels like I can do this.
• 18:36
  And Amy was like, Amy pushed me and she was like, okay, yeah, we're gonna like, I'll read all of your copy.
• 18:42
  And she would read it, she'd critique it, and she's like a fantastic direct response, like one of the old school copywriters, like, really well known.
• 18:52
  So I was able to, to jump quite far, quite fast because I had this amazing support around me.
• 19:00
  And so that was back in 2021, so five years ago, and then have really spent the last five years working with many, many different people across all sorts of different industries.
• 19:13
  So from wedding profess coaches and creatives and really helping them grow their business through the power of sales, through writing online websites, sales pages, emails and all that magic.
• 19:27
  So most people listening to this will be small business owners in the wedding industry, and many of them will have just written words on their own website.
• 19:35
  They.
• 19:36
  They may or may not even call it copy.
• 19:37
  They've just done a job, They've written something on their website.
• 19:40
  What do you think makes the difference between, as you described it, mediocre copy and copy that that's actually going to make a sale?
• 19:49
  Really good question, Becca.
• 19:50
  And I feel like my answer today is very different to what it would have been a couple of years ago because we have AI now, right?
• 19:57
  So a lot of people as well are not just maybe throwing it together with good intention, but they're using AI to put it together with good intention.
• 20:05
  And so I feel like what mediocre copy is right now is AI copy, which feels very soulless and very empty.
• 20:14
  And it can read well and be very poetic.
• 20:18
  And sometimes I will see people with AI copy and it will sound really good on the surface of it.
• 20:25
  It will sound like, oh, that sounds smart and clever and poised and prose and a bit kind of like I did an A level in English, but there's no depth to it.
• 20:36
  There's no soul in there.
• 20:39
  Often there'll be entire sentences that don't really mean anything and they just feel really, really empty.
• 20:45
  And so I would say that is the biggest challenge we're seeing with mediocre copy.
• 20:49
  Now happens when people read it is that they're not.
• 20:53
  They don't feel anything.
• 20:55
  Like they don't have that connection.
• 20:58
  And what we really want with good copy is deep connection.
• 21:02
  We want somebody to read it and be hooked on reading it.
• 21:06
  Almost like the best copy, you don't even know you're reading it, but you can't stop reading it.
• 21:11
  You know, like I always say, like, actually the best copy is written for like a low grade at school.
• 21:17
  Like, you know, like if you're writing for like year one, year two, that's actually the best type of copy because it's simple.
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  You can't stop reading.
• 21:25
  It doesn't feel like an effort.
• 21:27
  And, and it's.
• 21:28
  Each line is taking you to the next thing, it's moving you.
• 21:31
  And as well it's a journey.
• 21:33
  So it's like goes from deep connection and then from deep connection, it's like you're gauging the interest, you're meeting the reader where they are in their head.
• 21:40
  And then we're moving them to that call, to action, to jump on a call with you or whatever it is that you want your customer or client to do next.
• 21:49
  That's what it does.
• 21:50
  And it does it with deep connection.
• 21:52
  And it feels human.
• 21:54
  Like honestly, right now, mediocre copy feels AI and empty.
• 21:59
  Great copy feels deeply human.
• 22:02
  If I read copy right now that has a typo in it, I feel more connected to it than not because it's like, ah, this person's like a wobbly human like me and a bit wonky and we get things
• 22:13
  wrong, right?
• 22:14
  But isn't it so difficult?
• 22:16
  I think we're in this really difficult period at the moment when it comes to sales and marketing with this whole AI thing because it's actually really hard to define what's why the AI, I feel soulless, if that makes
• 22:27
  sense.
• 22:27
  So I can read a pitch email, right?
• 22:29
  Someone send me a pitch email to be on my podcast.
• 22:31
  And I will know it's AI generated, but it's really hard to explain how I know that it's AI generated.
• 22:37
  Do you know what I mean?
• 22:38
  And so, yeah, I think that's the trap because AI will write something like you said, that sounds good.
• 22:43
  And so then people think, yeah, this sounds really good, but actually to someone else, that lack of soul is starting to shine through.
• 22:52
  And I, I don't know how we, how we navigate that, how we, when we're not copywriters ourselves, how we make sure it sounds good but also has heart and soul and sounds like us.
• 23:03
  Yeah, I think a really good way to do it.
• 23:06
  So I've played a lot with AI and I should say that I'm not anti AI.
• 23:10
  I'm really not.
• 23:12
  I use it, I play with it.
• 23:14
  I've experimented a lot with it.
• 23:16
  I've even got AI products like.
• 23:18
  So I am not anti AI, but I do think how we use it changes the results we get.
• 23:24
  And I'm not just talking about like prompt, but what we have to do is we have to go in before we can go out to AI.
• 23:32
  So I always say, like, you have to, like, I talk a lot about like your spark, what is your spark?
• 23:37
  And, and we can talk more about that.
• 23:38
  But the idea is it's like you have to really dump your, your thoughts, your, your, like a conversation.
• 23:48
  Audio is a really good way to do it with AI, Right.
• 23:51
  But the idea is it's not giving you anything until you've given it everything.
• 23:57
  Right?
• 23:58
  So it's like you, you know, get it to ask you the questions instead of you being the one to prompt it, tell, tell AI your stories, your approach, why you got started in this business, the things that make
• 24:10
  you laugh.
• 24:10
  Like, once you get all of that out of you, AI can write some pretty good copy that won't feel empty because you've given it something.
• 24:19
  But the problem is when it has, hasn't got your, the, the let's call it like the soul deep goodness of your business, then it will just give you generic that it's giving to everyone else.
• 24:31
  And that's the problem because it's not just giving it to you, it's giving it to everyone else in the wedding industry as well.
• 24:37
  Everyone else doing the same thing as you.
• 24:40
  So it's never been easier to be forgettable because you can all be getting the same copy from Claude.
• 24:46
  Right?
• 24:47
  And, and what we want more than ever, like, especially like think about weddings.
• 24:52
  Weddings are literally the you Know, the ultimate moment of connection, right?
• 24:58
  A wedding is almost human connection defined, right.
• 25:02
  Two people getting married and bringing together everybody they love in one room.
• 25:07
  Like it's the opposite of AI, right?
• 25:11
  If we're having AI on one side and human connection on the other side.
• 25:14
  The weddings is the definition of human connection connection.
• 25:18
  So those are, you know, brides and grooms are also looking to work with service providers that have that feeling of connection, right.
• 25:26
  They want that photographer that's going to be working beautifully with humans and making, you know, asking people to do different things, get into different positions, making people laugh, good at working with children.
• 25:38
  Like they are looking for service providers that can, that, that are, are deeply human and are offering human connection for their big day.
• 25:48
  So the more your copy can be showing that, the better for getting picked for that gig.
• 25:56
  So really then we need to bring ourselves to the front of the business.
• 26:01
  We talk about that a lot in marketing, in the wedding industry, that the differentiating factor is us as the service provider.
• 26:07
  Now you describe it as finding your spark, as you said earlier.
• 26:11
  So how do we define that?
• 26:13
  How do you define someone's spark looking for?
• 26:16
  So I would say in your spark, there's normally, I think, eight things that goes into it.
• 26:24
  So if it's helpful.
• 26:25
  Yeah, please give us eight things.
• 26:27
  That would be amazing.
• 26:29
  Eight things.
• 26:29
  Okay, so one is your stories.
• 26:34
  You know, whether it'll be stories from previous weddings and like great moments that have happened, like sharing the stories of, of weddings that you've been to or Funny mom or anything like that.
• 26:49
  Because that is human connection and the brain remembers stories and you can so easily tell a story and then go into your sales pitch.
• 26:57
  And it is just one of the most powerful ways that we can be selling ourselves.
• 27:01
  And that's relevant for your social media copy as well as like your about page, you know, what's your brand origin story, your email copy.
• 27:10
  Okay, so that's number one.
• 27:12
  And number two is what is your, your vision?
• 27:16
  Like, what is it that you want to see different in the industry?
• 27:21
  You know, what is it that if, if you had your way, how would the wedding industry be a little bit different?
• 27:28
  Because often how you would see things or what, you know, is there a greater cause that you're working for?
• 27:35
  It kind of connects to number three, which is your why, like, knowing why you're doing this.
• 27:41
  You know, was there a, was there a big gap in the industry where you were like, oh my gosh, no one is doing it like this.
• 27:50
  I simply need to step in and do this or you know, why is it that you're doing it?
• 27:55
  What gives you your, you know, why are you getting out of bed to do this work?
• 27:58
  What is it that makes your job satisfying?
• 28:02
  And this is important because people do buy your vision and your why if they are also on board with it.
• 28:08
  Like, having a shared vision and a why is an amazing point of connection.
• 28:13
  And if they're looking at four other photographers or four other, you know, event spaces, but they, you know, they can see your vision and your why you're doing it, it can be that thing that takes them over the
• 28:28
  edge, you know.
• 28:31
  Okay, so next one is, we've done three right.
• 28:34
  Stories, vision, your way.
• 28:35
  Number four is you're knowing your and talking about your strengths and your weaknesses.
• 28:42
  And people sometimes get embarrassed about doing this or they don't feel that it's 100% relevant, but it's relevant because people want to know your strengths and your superpowers.
• 28:53
  Right.
• 28:54
  You know, if you have a particular.
• 28:56
  I'm just holding the example of a photographer, but if you have a particular style that you do really, really well.
• 29:03
  Well, let's not let anyone guess that or try to figure it out by looking at your portfolio owner.
• 29:10
  Say it.
• 29:11
  You know, if you're.
• 29:12
  You're perfect.
• 29:13
  If you, if your perfect photos are like candid shots at sunset, and this is what you do really, really well, you know, have a headline that says, if you're looking for candid photos at the golden hour, where everybody
• 29:25
  looks naturally wonderful, I'm the photographer for you.
• 29:28
  You know, be really pulling out and owning your superpowers.
• 29:33
  And I think somet we get a bit embarrassed about doing this or we feel like we should be a bit more modest.
• 29:39
  But.
• 29:39
  But don't be like, there's other areas where it can be modest.
• 29:44
  Sorry, go on, Becca.
• 29:45
  I was going to say, what about your weaknesses?
• 29:46
  Because in that you said strengths and weaknesses.
• 29:48
  So it makes a whole lot of sense to me to talk about strengths, but suddenly weaknesses feel scary.
• 29:52
  Yes, I get that.
• 29:53
  I get that.
• 29:54
  So weaknesses doesn't have to be weaknesses at your craft, right?
• 29:59
  I'm not saying that you go all in and you're like, okay, I do these photos really well, but these ones I'm really rubbish at.
• 30:04
  Like, I do not mean that at all.
• 30:07
  A better word really is more like vulnerabilities.
• 30:09
  So it's like sharing things that makes you that imperfectly perfect, wobbly, wonky human being.
• 30:18
  Because we love that.
• 30:20
  Right?
• 30:21
  So it might be that your, your quote unquote weakness is that you stay up editing your photos till 2am because you're so excited about it.
• 30:32
  And then, then the next day you sleep through the school alarm and take your kids late to school and you feel like a bad mom or something like that, right?
• 30:42
  So you're showing a side of you that's like, oh, bad mum slept through the school alarm.
• 30:47
  Anyone else taking their kids at 10am I was up all night editing photos.
• 30:52
  Like, that's just, I mean, it's just an example.
• 30:54
  Or for example, for me, I'm a bit deaf and I wear hearing aids and so that's a weakness, right?
• 31:02
  Like, but I'll talk about that on social media and I'll talk about that.
• 31:05
  I even have a bit on my homepage about, you know, if I ask you what or pardon more than three times and half an hour, just know it's because I'm partially deaf.
• 31:14
  Like, but we as human beings actually love seeing people's imperfections.
• 31:20
  It makes us relate to them more.
• 31:22
  And so it's finding what, what are those for you?
• 31:28
  Another way of looking at it could be like, it's is quirkiness.
• 31:32
  What is it that makes you a bit quirky, a bit weird?
• 31:35
  Like, only weird.
• 31:37
  Like, own the stuff that's not all squeaky and perfect, right?
• 31:42
  Like if you're, if you're a social media manager and your own camera roll is a disaster and you know, then you could talk about that and be like, why are all my clients camera roll so perfect?
• 31:55
  And look at mine.
• 31:56
  Oh my gosh.
• 31:56
  Like, so you're just making yourself human, right?
• 32:00
  Like, I just think in this AI era, we're all craving that.
• 32:04
  Like, yeah, I'm not perfect.
• 32:07
  You know, like, you open Instagram, everyone's in their perfect homes in the perfect things and it's so boring.
• 32:14
  Like, yeah, no one wants perfect anymore.
• 32:16
  We're definitely hopefully past that perfection era.
• 32:19
  But it makes a whole lot of sense as well because we do see people struggling and we think, oh, I can relate to that.
• 32:25
  Oh, that they're just like me.
• 32:26
  Oh, they're, you know, oh, I also have struggled with that.
• 32:30
  Or I'm also doom scrolling too often on my phone.
• 32:33
  And then you do kind of buy into them more, I suppose, and also you do believe them more.
• 32:38
  It does feel real, I suppose when we're talking about that whole AI thing, actually we don't want perfect people.
• 32:45
  And we also, I think it also balances out the, the bragging rights because if we're too much just like, I'm amazing at this, I'm amazing At this.
• 32:53
  I'm amazing at this.
• 32:54
  People don't like that either.
• 32:55
  We've all been at a networking event where someone just tells you how amazing they are and you just walk away thinking, what an idiot.
• 33:01
  I don't like them.
• 33:02
  But actually if someone tells me something they're amazing at and also balances it out with normality, I'm like really inspired by them or I really appreciate them.
• 33:11
  And it's a nuance, isn't it?
• 33:12
  But actually it kind of does need a bit of balance.
• 33:15
  You're so right.
• 33:16
  I actually haven't thought about it like that, but you're so right.
• 33:18
  It's like, I mean, I feel like we do this well as Brits, but it's like that self deprecating humor, right?
• 33:25
  You'd be a bit deprecating.
• 33:27
  And then you get to brag.
• 33:29
  I love that.
• 33:30
  Absolutely.
• 33:31
  Okay, you've done four, let's have the other four.
• 33:33
  Okay, so number five, experience and credibility.
• 33:36
  Like, talk about that.
• 33:39
  You know, I've talked in this podcast about journalism, how it's relevant to what I'm doing today.
• 33:43
  I've talked about how my job in travel and why it's relevant today.
• 33:48
  We need to be making those links and bringing it in because we can't expect somebody to just presume so.
• 33:55
  So, you know, if you've been doing, if you've been doing weddings for so many years, numbers are great.
• 34:02
  How many weddings have you done?
• 34:04
  How many seasons have you done?
• 34:07
  You know, percentages of happy brides and grooms that left.
• 34:11
  You know, if you've always got good feedback, have you got 100% satisfaction record?
• 34:16
  Like, you know, when you're looking at your credibility, really just go deep and think, okay, if I had to really sell myself to somebody on a pitch deck, what would be the numbers I put?
• 34:27
  Where, where are the testimonials?
• 34:29
  What's the experience, the life experience that I'm bringing that no one else can bring?
• 34:35
  That's number five.
• 34:37
  I was going to say, I think people listening will go, but what if I'm new?
• 34:40
  What if I don't have much experience?
• 34:41
  And I think that's a really important point, that life experience matters too.
• 34:45
  That's why I always like starting this podcast, finding out people's backgrounds, because I know from doing this podcast everyone I ever speak to has got such a rich experience, experience from their previous life, as I like to call
• 34:56
  it before, they're doing what they do now.
• 34:58
  And that again, is what makes them unique.
• 34:59
  They may only have been a photographer a couple of years.
• 35:02
  But if they've done X, Y and Z, that's given them all of this amazing experience.
• 35:06
  Like, I think sometimes people are almost ashamed to talk about old jobs, but actually there's a lot that we can make us different by talking about that.
• 35:14
  Absolutely.
• 35:16
  And then as well, it's like, when you're talking about experience, there's.
• 35:21
  What else can you be pulling from?
• 35:22
  You know, did you study design or art or something at university?
• 35:28
  And has that inspired your particular style of photography?
• 35:32
  Or there's, you know, just in terms of, like, how you.
• 35:37
  As a child, you know, was there a certain, you know, I know a designer, and I was talking to her like a web designer, and she was talking all about how as a child, she was obsessed with calligraphy
• 35:47
  and illustrations.
• 35:48
  And then she was showing me that that was actually, like, how she starts all her design just with pen and paper.
• 35:53
  And I was like, well, this is part of your spark.
• 35:55
  Many designers are just getting on their computers and that's how they start.
• 35:59
  But you're really bringing, like, that, that.
• 36:01
  That organic, handcrafted element into it.
• 36:05
  And that comes from your experience.
• 36:07
  Right.
• 36:07
  That comes from being a child and being like that.
• 36:10
  So go deep.
• 36:11
  Doesn't matter how long you've been doing this job.
• 36:14
  Love it.
• 36:14
  Okay, number six.
• 36:16
  Number six is your values.
• 36:18
  So what is it that you really, really stand for, and what is it that you don't stand for?
• 36:25
  And how can you be bringing your values into your messaging?
• 36:29
  So to give you an example, one of my values is growth and learning.
• 36:36
  Like, I have a bottomless budget for books, and I love learning new things.
• 36:41
  And so how do I bring that into my messaging?
• 36:46
  Well, one of my services is called Messenger Revolution, which is like finding people's messaging strategy.
• 36:51
  And what I say is, this is the work you need to do for the next five years of growth.
• 36:57
  Because I really believe that unless you figure out what your message is going to be for the next five years, you can't grow.
• 37:03
  So I'm very much about helping my clients grow because growth is so important to me.
• 37:09
  So that's just an example, because I think sometimes when you think of values, you think of how.
• 37:12
  How do I actually, like, apply this?
• 37:16
  But it's getting really curious with, what are your values as a person?
• 37:22
  And then how do those values carry into your business?
• 37:25
  And then when you become aware of them, you'll notice that so much of it happens subconsciously because you're just wired that way.
• 37:34
  But then it's taking it from it being subconscious and actually just saying it in your messaging.
• 37:40
  Because, again, why does this matter?
• 37:42
  It's a shared connection thing.
• 37:44
  So someone else who is also motivated by their growth will see that and feel perhaps more inclined to work with me than someone else.
• 37:53
  Right.
• 37:54
  So we're, you know, all of this is relevant for connection.
• 37:57
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:58
  And I think, again, it's okay to have your values and to shout about them because I think sometimes we fall into this assumption that other people have the same values as us, and it is not true.
• 38:08
  And so we don't talk about them because we think, well, everyone is living by honesty.
• 38:12
  Everyone's being transparent with this.
• 38:14
  And actually, very quickly in business, you realize, oh, turns out they're not.
• 38:18
  And so we can kind of nail our colors to the mask, as it were, and.
• 38:23
  And talk about things.
• 38:24
  And yes, you might not be for everyone, but we know in business we don't need to be for everyone.
• 38:28
  I think one of my values I talk about a lot, and I talk about it in my messaging for me personally is family first.
• 38:34
  You know, if someone says to me, I can't come to the call because my daughter's got sports day, I'll say, brilliant.
• 38:39
  That.
• 38:39
  That's how I live my life.
• 38:40
  Family first.
• 38:41
  Right?
• 38:42
  And so.
• 38:43
  But.
• 38:43
  And I think, well, that's what everyone is.
• 38:45
  And then I think, well, actually, no, it's not.
• 38:46
  Whatever.
• 38:46
  Not everyone would say that.
• 38:48
  Some people would say, well, how dare you?
• 38:49
  You should be on the call.
• 38:50
  You shouldn't be at your child's sports day.
• 38:52
  And so it's finding the things and then just not being afraid to live them.
• 38:57
  I suppose I love that example so much, Becca, because I would be.
• 39:02
  Am I right in thinking that probably a lot of people in your world have got family?
• 39:06
  Family is.
• 39:06
  Yeah, almost everyone.
• 39:08
  And probably as I've been.
• 39:09
  I've been doing this for a decade now, and so I've watched them have children and watched their children start to grow up as well.
• 39:14
  Because actually, a lot of people go into the.
• 39:16
  Into the wedding industry, kind of late 20s, early 30s.
• 39:19
  But actually, if you're in it 5, 10, 15 years, then you know that there is a thing where people do suddenly have children.
• 39:25
  But I guess, yeah, sometimes you have these things without even thinking about the fact that you have them.
• 39:30
  You know, sometimes I think, sometimes we think this is a written exercise.
• 39:33
  We need to go and write down our values.
• 39:34
  But actually, people will be living their values.
• 39:36
  They almost just need to pull them out of themselves.
• 39:38
  Oh, it's so true.
• 39:39
  That's what I say all the time.
• 39:40
  It's almost not a written exercise.
• 39:42
  It's like, what is it that you do want to spend your money on?
• 39:45
  What is it that you do want to spend your time on?
• 39:47
  It's looking where you spend your, your time and your money and where you're living that you find them.
• 39:52
  And like, your example with families is such a great one because, you know, you will be naturally attracting service providers that have got families and maybe another person in the wedding space will be attracting those people in their
• 40:06
  20s that don't have kids because they don't have.
• 40:08
  Have that value and they're not talking about it.
• 40:10
  And so it is such a powerful way to attract the right people and repel the wrong people.
• 40:17
  You know, not so much with that value, but other values.
• 40:20
  Other values will.
• 40:20
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 40:21
  Okay, so that's number six.
• 40:22
  Let's have number seven.
• 40:23
  Okay, number seven is your approach.
• 40:27
  So what is your, your approach to working?
• 40:31
  You know, are you very intuitive?
• 40:34
  Are you very spontaneous?
• 40:36
  Are you very strategic?
• 40:38
  Are you a planner?
• 40:39
  Like, making people know?
• 40:40
  Your approach, your process, your framework, your method, if you have one, might not be relevant for everybody listening, but it is a nice extra layer that sometimes people forget to include.
• 40:54
  And the last one, number eight, is your personality.
• 40:59
  So just really tapping into who are you when you walk into a room?
• 41:05
  Like, what's your energy?
• 41:06
  Like who you know, how do you carry yourself?
• 41:09
  How do you, how does a room shape shift when you leave it, when you exit it?
• 41:15
  Ask your friends and, and ask old clients, how would they describe you?
• 41:20
  And that energy and that personality should be in your messaging, right?
• 41:24
  And if you're using AI, tell it your personality.
• 41:28
  Because so often we feel like AI knows us really well because it hears our deepest, darkest thoughts at 2:00am and, you know, whatever else, it has his.
• 41:38
  But actually, AI has never met you.
• 41:41
  AI's never felt your energy.
• 41:43
  AI has never been in that room with you.
• 41:45
  And so you have to again, get that information and give it to it.
• 41:50
  Okay, so you've given us all eight, and they're amazing.
• 41:53
  But I feel like there's kind of two parts to this.
• 41:55
  So first of all, we've got to uncover our spark, which is exactly what you've just given us a framework to do.
• 42:00
  And so people can go through each of those eight things and try and work them out for themselves.
• 42:05
  But then I feel like there's a part two.
• 42:07
  So for myself, I could give you all of the answers to all of these questions, and I know them deeply in my soul, and I know my personality, and I know all of these different things.
• 42:15
  But sometimes where I struggle is how do you take all of these amazing things and get them all across in a succinct way without writing, you know, 27,000 paragraphs about all of the different things?
• 42:28
  And so how do we take.
• 42:30
  Have you got any thoughts about how we take this big amount of stuff and actually.
• 42:34
  Actually make it come through the screen without writing an entire book?
• 42:39
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 42:40
  So once you have all of this and you know it, the idea is that it doesn't all appear in one place.
• 42:47
  It will be peppered in everywhere.
• 42:50
  You know, so your personality is just infusing your tone of voice and it might be giving you anecdotes in social media posts that you're doing.
• 42:59
  Or, for example, my experience and credibility.
• 43:05
  If you look at the about page on my website, I've made the whole about page to be like a newspaper article written about me.
• 43:14
  Because what I'm doing is I'm playing with that experience of being a journalist, right?
• 43:18
  So strengths and weaknesses.
• 43:22
  Sometimes it will be, like I say, owning some of those vulnerabilities on social media media start and using those as a hook, you know, because people will be like, oh, I want to know more about how filthy her
• 43:33
  house is or something.
• 43:33
  And then, and then you're.
• 43:36
  And then you're using that as a hook and then you're shifting into a sales.
• 43:41
  Into more of a sales.
• 43:42
  Sales pitch using your framework.
• 43:45
  It would be like you could be talking about a problem that they have and you're saying, okay, this is your problem.
• 43:52
  Or maybe something they really want, like a desire, what they really, really want.
• 43:56
  And let's say, but they're somewhere else right now, right?
• 44:00
  They don't have that thing or they can't fix their problem.
• 44:03
  And so you label that problem or you label that desire.
• 44:07
  And then you say, but, hey, you're here right now.
• 44:09
  This is really tricky.
• 44:10
  How do you get there?
• 44:10
  Well, my framework is the thing that helps you, right?
• 44:13
  So then you're.
• 44:14
  Then you'll be introducing your.
• 44:16
  Your framework.
• 44:19
  Values can be coming through in the, in the positioning statements about your products.
• 44:25
  Like I said before, like, with my.
• 44:27
  One of my products is all about helping you grow.
• 44:30
  Or I work with a coach who has a very strong value again of like family first and not burnout.
• 44:39
  And so her tagline is helping you to get to six figures and beyond without burnout.
• 44:46
  So she's bringing in that value of, of avoiding the thing that is against her values.
• 44:52
  I feel like I could probably talk for three days about so many Other ways of like how you bring it in.
• 45:00
  But the idea is that once you have all of this and you've done this deep work, you can also literally upload all this to AI and make it part of your brand blueprint and then it will just give
• 45:13
  you better stuff.
• 45:15
  Right?
• 45:16
  So it's not that this all has to appear in one place, but it becomes like brand themes.
• 45:22
  It becomes like these threads that run through your business that make you unique and identifiable.
• 45:28
  Does that help?
• 45:29
  Yeah, it makes perfect sense.
• 45:30
  And I think the other mistake people make is when we talk about copy or writing, we're just thinking about website, but actually it covers way more than that.
• 45:37
  It includes things like writing emails, it includes your social media.
• 45:41
  And again, something that came to my mind, sticking with the family first thing.
• 45:44
  Sometimes, sometimes I make that come through in my out of office email.
• 45:47
  So if I'm out of office, sometimes I'll write something like I'm out of the office and I'm not checking my email because I started a business to spend time with my family and we're in Disney World.
• 45:56
  And that is.
• 45:57
  And that is still copy, right?
• 45:58
  That's still bringing our values through in the copy.
• 46:01
  We're not just thinking about.
• 46:02
  I didn't write that on my homepage of my website, but actually it kind of.
• 46:05
  It comes in everywhere.
• 46:06
  It comes in everywhere.
• 46:07
  And so to take that example, I would expect to see something on your about page about your family.
• 46:13
  Maybe your brand origin story is the fact that you've built this business to be able to have the life you want around your family.
• 46:21
  Maybe on your services pages or your sales pages, you would be connecting with people saying, if you want to build a business as a wedding pro that lets you pick your kids up from school and take, take August
• 46:35
  off, you know, then I'll be the coach or the guy to help you.
• 46:39
  So again, it's like this, this, this value that becomes a thread that appears in so many places in your messaging and it becomes part of your identity.
• 46:48
  I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it.
• 46:50
  Loads of good stuff in there.
• 46:51
  Now, there's one more thing I wanted to talk to you about, which I think wedding professionals are particularly bad at, and that is selling.
• 46:56
  Okay, so we know that copy and selling and it all kind of comes together.
• 47:00
  And there's a concept that I saw when I was looking at your website and you called it story selling.
• 47:07
  And I love that.
• 47:08
  And I thought this is, this sounds like a wedding pro's dream.
• 47:11
  Because wedding pros typically we're not particularly salespeople.
• 47:15
  We hate the idea of being like the cringy estate agent or the car salesman.
• 47:20
  And as soon as someone says sales, we kind of shut down.
• 47:23
  So talk to us about this concept of story selling and what makes the difference between a story that makes someone like you and a story that makes someone buy from you.
• 47:35
  Oh, such a good question, Becca.
• 47:39
  So I love story selling.
• 47:42
  And I said, so what is story selling?
• 47:44
  Story selling is when we use a story to sell.
• 47:49
  So instead of just saying, hey, buy from me because I'm amazing and these are all the reasons why you should buy from me, instead we hook them in with a story and then we shift into a sales pitch.
• 48:04
  So this works really well in email marketing.
• 48:07
  It works really well on social media as well.
• 48:10
  So it can be like a real or it could be in your stories, but it's really when we're.
• 48:16
  We're trying to sell.
• 48:18
  And so to give you an example, just thinking of a story I did not too long ago where I bought this cashmere cardigan when I went to Nepal with my friend last year.
• 48:32
  And so I did a story on Instagram that was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I've just spent $100 on a cashmere cardigan in NEP.
• 48:43
  I felt it felt really frivolous in a country where curries cost like a dollar and hotel cost $20, then the reality is I haven't taken it off.
• 48:53
  Like, spoiler alert, this thing has not been washed and I have been wearing it solidly now for four months.
• 49:01
  And.
• 49:02
  And I've just worked out my price per use and it's down to.
• 49:05
  I can't remember what it was.
• 49:06
  It's already down to like 10p a day.
• 49:08
  So at this point, I'm practically making money.
• 49:11
  And this is actually the same thing as your copy for your website.
• 49:15
  Many people will think, oh, my God, I don't want to spend money on a copywriter.
• 49:19
  Like, I can do it myself.
• 49:21
  But when you think about, over the long term, what the sales are that potentially having someone that's trained in conversion can do to bring in your return of investment, bring in your sales, and then you break that down
• 49:35
  per sales that you got versus the investment basically end up making money.
• 49:40
  So that's an example because it was like, how do you go from talking about having a cashmere cardigan to selling?
• 49:51
  So the idea is that you're doing that, like, here's something random, not particularly connected.
• 49:56
  Then the next part is, what is the connection?
• 49:59
  Right, the connection for the cardigan is that it's expensive, but it brings in ROI over the long term.
• 50:08
  You're paying for quality, which has a great roi.
• 50:12
  And so that was the connection to the service I was offering.
• 50:15
  So that's one experience.
• 50:16
  Example.
• 50:16
  Another example of story selling is.
• 50:20
  Might feel easier for people is just thinking about something funny or interesting that's happened.
• 50:27
  It could be that, you know, you got a hilarious email from a customer or a client.
• 50:34
  It could be that when something nearly went wrong at a wedding, but it didn't go wrong.
• 50:38
  Like, stories are anything where you want to pick up your phone and leave a voice note to someone because something funny just happened or something interesting just happened.
• 50:48
  Like that feeling of wanting to share something is normally where the story is.
• 50:54
  So it's like, follow that thread and keep a story journal.
• 50:58
  Like, just jot it all down.
• 51:02
  Then you just have a bank of stories, and then you can be using it to sell.
• 51:07
  So let's say something goes wrong at a wedding.
• 51:10
  You might think, oh, my God, how on earth would you ever use that to sell?
• 51:13
  And it could be like, this thing went wrong.
• 51:16
  Oh, my gosh, can you imagine if this happened at your wedding?
• 51:19
  Like, shock, horror.
• 51:21
  But then we were able to save the day this way or that way, or the show went on anyway and, you know, and they had an even better time because of it.
• 51:32
  And then they're smiling and nodding along and it's like, well, we can create this amazing experience for you.
• 51:37
  It can be that simple.
• 51:38
  Just sharing a story and then being like.
• 51:41
  So that someone's smiling, they're still reading, they're still watching.
• 51:45
  Because it's a hook.
• 51:46
  Stories of human connection that hook us in and then just simply going, hey, want this for your wedding too?
• 51:52
  I can deliver.
• 51:53
  So it's like another way of.
• 51:54
  Of.
• 51:55
  Of.
• 51:55
  Of selling.
• 51:56
  And that's the bit I think sometimes people miss.
• 51:58
  I think sometimes people tell the story but forget to link it back or forget to kind of land the story.
• 52:05
  And so that's when you're like, well, that's a really nice story.
• 52:08
  But they forget to do the bit that's like.
• 52:10
  And that's why you needed to hire me, because you hadn't hired me then this wouldn't have been fixed.
• 52:15
  Or imagine if they hadn't had a wedding coordinator then, or they hadn't had a cake maker who knew to put the cake in the fridge.
• 52:20
  It would have all been on the floor.
• 52:21
  You know, that's the.
• 52:22
  That's the line I think people are scared about putting in there.
• 52:25
  But actually, that's kind of the most important bit.
• 52:28
  The most important bit.
• 52:29
  And you know, just like a quick reframe on selling to just remember that you're helping people.
• 52:35
  People are planning their weddings and looking for you, you.
• 52:39
  So you're doing a disservice by not reminding them that they can hire you.
• 52:43
  You know, See, I always think just, just reframe it.
• 52:46
  You're not.
• 52:46
  You're not selling, you're just helping.
• 52:48
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 52:49
  And my friends recently got engaged and she's like, I just wish people would sell to me more because they're not giving her the answer.
• 52:56
  I always give a funny example in one of my stage talks, dealer about when about to try and reframe selling, about how, you know, it's a long morning and I've managed to my kids to school and I'm exhausted
• 53:06
  and I haven't had my first coffee of the day and I really need a coffee.
• 53:09
  And I drive up to Starbucks and I say, can you get me this caramel latte?
• 53:12
  And they say, do you really want that or do you want to come back tomorrow?
• 53:15
  Do you want to think about it?
• 53:16
  Are you sure you've got the, you know, and that's all the things we do.
• 53:19
  And I'm like, no, I really do want the coffee.
• 53:21
  Just sell it to me, please.
• 53:22
  Give it to me.
• 53:23
  Just, you're helping me.
• 53:24
  Just sell me the coffee.
• 53:25
  And you know, it makes people laugh, but it's true.
• 53:28
  Because sometimes we forget when someone comes to us, it's like we do everything but sell to them.
• 53:32
  We say, oh, have.
• 53:33
  Have 24 more hours to have a think about that.
• 53:35
  Or do you know.
• 53:36
  And actually sometimes we're helping them the most by just selling it and giving them solution there and then.
• 53:41
  I love being sold too, right?
• 53:43
  Like, there's.
• 53:44
  I think that we get confused between, like, bad salesman tactics that make us cringe and we start to identify that as selling.
• 53:53
  But that's not selling, that's just being a sleazy salesman.
• 53:58
  But, like, actually, like, think about conversations you have with a friend.
• 54:01
  Like I've with a friend and she's like, oh, my gosh, leave me a voice.
• 54:04
  Oh, my gosh, Celia, I have discovered the best mascara.
• 54:08
  It's going to double the length of your eyelashes.
• 54:11
  And yes, even at 42 kind of thing.
• 54:14
  I am buying that mascara that day and I'm excited about buying it, right?
• 54:18
  Like, genuinely excited, like, so it just holds the energy of like, of that when you're selling.
• 54:27
  And it will feel better.
• 54:28
  Yeah, 100% and also kind of going full circle, I think.
• 54:31
  I think at that point, for me personally, if I'm struggling with selling or thinking about selling, I bring the values piece back into it.
• 54:39
  So when I'm having conversations, sometimes I say, for me, one of my values is that I want you to only buy this if it's actually going to help you.
• 54:46
  So if I don't think it's going to help you, then I won't give it to you as a solution.
• 54:50
  I'll send you somewhere else.
• 54:51
  And so it almost kind of you bring that back.
• 54:54
  Because actually, what's the problem with that sleazy selling is that their values and morals don't necessarily align with us.
• 55:00
  And I think that's what we're afraid of.
• 55:02
  But actually, when we bring our values and drop it into our sales pitch and remind ourselves that we are not trying to do anything bad, then it kind of helps as well.
• 55:10
  And I guess it builds.
• 55:11
  It builds trust because people realize, okay, she's not trying to do a sleazy sales pitch on me.
• 55:15
  She will happily send me to a competitor or say, actually, no, you don't need that.
• 55:19
  Yes, 100%.
• 55:22
  100%.
• 55:23
  So it all works together.
• 55:24
  Okay, there's one more thing that I want to get out of you, Deanna, while I've got you, because you're so amazing at what you're doing and you're sharing such great stuff.
• 55:31
  I think one of the problems in the wedding industry, and it's probably a little bit been ambitious, amplified by AI, but it definitely has been a problem for as long as I've been in this industry over a decade,
• 55:40
  is that everyone falls into using the same language.
• 55:43
  So in weddings, it's all very dreamy and elegant and luxury and, you know, everyone is saying exactly the same things, you know, make the best memories, memories that last forever.
• 55:54
  And so it's all just a bit blur.
• 55:56
  Whether they've written it themselves or it's been written by AI, it's really easy for everyone to just sound the same.
• 56:03
  So how do we.
• 56:05
  How do we find language that actually belongs to us rather than just what we think the wedding industry should be saying?
• 56:11
  I am so glad you've asked me this question.
• 56:13
  That's such a good question.
• 56:15
  Okay, so one of the best things you can do is use the language of your customers and your clients.
• 56:23
  So everybody will be giving you feedback and talking to you about your service.
• 56:29
  And if you're not already actually getting feedback, feedback, that's one of the most important things to do.
• 56:35
  But you're not just asking, hey, how was.
• 56:37
  How was this?
• 56:37
  Or you're not asking for feedback.
• 56:39
  You're asking strategic questions to help you with your copywriting.
• 56:43
  So you want to hear how they're talking about you, and then they will give you your language.
• 56:51
  Like, the best copy doesn't come from your brain, it doesn't come from AI.
• 56:56
  Like, yes, everything I've talked about is like, everything in you is your soul, your spark that is so important.
• 57:01
  Important.
• 57:02
  But your actual copy, the word you're choosing to use.
• 57:05
  Listen to your customers because they will be describing you in a way you can't describe yourself.
• 57:10
  And they will be using words that will naturally resonate with other people shopping around because they want the same thing.
• 57:18
  And that's when you can get some really good copy.
• 57:21
  Because people speak off the cuff and they say what they're really thinking and they don't talk in jargon.
• 57:28
  And so that is literally the single most important thing to do.
• 57:32
  So how do we do that?
• 57:33
  Is that by reading reviews that people have written?
• 57:35
  Is it by interviewing our customers?
• 57:36
  Is it by looking at what they've said?
• 57:38
  Like, where do we find that information?
• 57:40
  Yeah, so reviews are amazing.
• 57:42
  And if you're a new business and you haven't yet got your own customers to be asking, then look at, I always say, look at competitors websites don't even read that copy.
• 57:54
  Read what their customers are saying.
• 57:55
  Read their testimonials.
• 57:58
  If you're doing products, can you go to, like, Amazon pages and look at other products and look at Amazon reviews?
• 58:07
  Can you go to Reddit threads and be looking on, you know, for people who are talking about organizing flowers for weddings?
• 58:16
  If you're a flower organizer, and what are they saying and what is it?
• 58:19
  What is the look that they want and what languages are they are using?
• 58:23
  So there's all the public forums.
• 58:25
  Then the next thing you can do is when you're actually working with customers and clients is to be asking.
• 58:32
  One of the most important times to ask them is the onboarding stage.
• 58:36
  So you know whether you have a contact form on your website.
• 58:40
  You might say, and the question will depend on your industry.
• 58:43
  Right, but you might say, or your niche, I should say.
• 58:47
  But you might say, what is it that you really want, want from this thing at your wedding?
• 58:52
  Or what is the experience you want to create?
• 58:54
  Or how do you want this to feel?
• 58:58
  You want to be trying, capturing their, like, basically their hopes and their dreams.
• 59:02
  How are they describing what they want?
• 59:05
  And try to capture it then beforehand, because that's what your the state of mind that your other potential customers are in, but in that before the wedding state.
• 59:15
  So we want to capture the language then.
• 59:18
  And then after the wedding is when you want to have a more detailed feedback process where you would maybe have like five or six questions you want to ask them.
• 59:27
  You want to say to them, question one, like, go back to before we start, before your wedding, before you hired me, what was going on in your mind?
• 59:35
  What were you worried about?
• 59:36
  What were your struggles or challenges?
• 59:38
  Because, you know, they might be thinking, oh, God, I've, you know, we think, oh, no one's got a problem.
• 59:44
  They're getting married.
• 59:45
  This is good.
• 59:46
  But actually, they might be really struggling with an idea or a concept and finding the right service provider for it.
• 59:51
  So we want to really try and understand what that problem or struggle is.
• 59:55
  And then we also want to be asking them, like, what was it like working with me?
• 59:59
  How would you describe me?
• 1:00:01
  You know, how would you describe me to a friend who might be getting married?
• 1:00:05
  And then we also want to be saying, like, what is the thing that surprised you most about this service on your wedding day?
• 1:00:11
  How did it make you feel after the wedding day?
• 1:00:14
  What impact did it have on your day?
• 1:00:17
  So asking questions like that are very specific.
• 1:00:20
  And then you're going to get more specific answers.
• 1:00:23
  And then when you're looking at these answers, look for anything that makes you smile, makes you giggle, makes you feel something.
• 1:00:31
  And that's where your magic copy is.
• 1:00:34
  I love it.
• 1:00:34
  Magic copy.
• 1:00:35
  But to do this, we have to be good listeners as well.
• 1:00:38
  You know, often I think we think about this stuff as are speaking, but actually the.
• 1:00:44
  The magic is in the listening, in hearing what they have to say, both verbally.
• 1:00:48
  Because even if you haven't gone through a formal feedback process, if they've said to you on your wedding day, this is how you made me feel.
• 1:00:54
  This is, you know, this is how they describe you.
• 1:00:57
  This is.
• 1:00:57
  Yeah.
• 1:00:57
  And suddenly note that down, go back to your little story journal and add that in there as well.
• 1:01:02
  Because, you know, I think sometimes, again, people feel like there needs to be all these formal processes.
• 1:01:07
  But actually, actually people are probably saying this kind of stuff to them all of the time.
• 1:01:11
  They're just not retaining it or remembering it or listening intently enough to hear how they're being described.
• 1:01:18
  And now, as you were talking, I thought of an example again in my own business where I remember reading some reviews about me being on stage.
• 1:01:26
  And I actually changed the intro when someone talks about me being on stage.
• 1:01:31
  The end of my bio now says, you know, whenever you hear from Becca, she'll always deliver in her down to earth, practical, no fluff style.
• 1:01:40
  And that was purely because I took that wording where people said, I love listening to you because there's no fluff.
• 1:01:46
  You're down to earth, you're normal, you're just like us.
• 1:01:48
  You know, it's a really practical approach.
• 1:01:50
  And I thought actually that is the language.
• 1:01:52
  It's not, oh, you're going to hear this amazing marketing strategy.
• 1:01:55
  People don't necessarily want to hear bluster.
• 1:01:58
  They just want to hear know you're down to earth.
• 1:02:00
  And so it is powerful, it works.
• 1:02:03
  But you have to listen and you have to be prepared to go in a direction that isn't necessarily your first thought if that's what other people are saying about you.
• 1:02:12
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:02:14
  And I agree, it is becoming a good listener and just.
• 1:02:17
  But that's how we find words that are, are different because, you know, otherwise it's, it's hard.
• 1:02:25
  Right?
• 1:02:25
  We are reading this.
• 1:02:26
  We also, I always say, like, sometimes you're too.
• 1:02:29
  What's the phra is when you're inside the bottle, you can't read the label.
• 1:02:33
  Like you're too close to your own business.
• 1:02:35
  So listening how other people talk about you, it's just so helpful.
• 1:02:40
  It just like, it's like, gives you full permission to just step away, let other people do the hard work for you and then just use their words.
• 1:02:48
  Okay, so you've heard it here from Delia.
• 1:02:50
  If you are feeling you're stuck in this rut, stop looking at your competitors websites to get ideas.
• 1:02:56
  Start looking, listening to your customers.
• 1:02:57
  Otherwise that's why we're all sounding the same, because you're going, oh, what does my competitor say?
• 1:03:01
  How do they describe themselves?
• 1:03:02
  And then that's why every photographer, every dj, every cake baker sounds identical.
• 1:03:07
  So if you want to stand out from the crowd, go listen to your customers instead and, and find your spark and you're going to be absolutely ahead of the game.
• 1:03:14
  Now, Didi, before I let you go, I want to talk to you briefly about your podcast because as you know, I'm a big podcast fan.
• 1:03:20
  I'm here on the podcast and I saw that you've recently started a new podcast all about unapologetic entrepreneurship.
• 1:03:28
  And just the title alone, I was like, yes, this sounds like a bit of me.
• 1:03:31
  So just tell me, what do you even mean by unapologetic entrepreneurship and what's the podcast all about?
• 1:03:36
  Oh, yeah, it's so exciting.
• 1:03:38
  So I'm, I'm Doing this podcast with my friend and often business partner, Joanna Galabau.
• 1:03:45
  And we think that unapologetic entrepreneurship is all about just running your own race and doing business how you want to do it.
• 1:03:54
  And so it's very much about that.
• 1:03:56
  It's like throwing the rulebook in the bin and doing it your way.
• 1:04:01
  And so we've just done a whole episode on, like, purpose and how to make your job feel purposeful no matter what you're doing.
• 1:04:09
  And we talk about identity and happiness and how you can feel good in your business and energy and all this stuff.
• 1:04:19
  Because I feel like this, you know, we talk so much about strategy and.
• 1:04:22
  And, you know, I talk a lot about messaging and elements of that come in.
• 1:04:26
  But we're talking more about the stuff that, like, really matters and the stuff that makes you feel like body good in your business.
• 1:04:34
  Because at the end of the day, if your business doesn't feel really, really good and it doesn't light you up, it will only get so far because it will only carry you so far.
• 1:04:43
  You only make so much money.
• 1:04:45
  So it's all about kind of.
• 1:04:47
  Yeah, making your business feel really good.
• 1:04:49
  And we're having so much fun recording it.
• 1:04:51
  Well, that's the main thing, isn't it?
• 1:04:53
  Having fun, recording.
• 1:04:54
  And I think, again, the message is really important.
• 1:04:56
  I think.
• 1:04:57
  So often we start a business to live the life we want, and then we find ourselves just basically building a really difficult day job that isn't the life that we want at all, because we feel like we've got
• 1:05:06
  to fit it into all these certain boxes.
• 1:05:08
  And actually we don't have to do anything.
• 1:05:10
  I say that a lot to my business owners.
• 1:05:12
  You don't actually have to do anything.
• 1:05:14
  You started your own business to make your own decisions.
• 1:05:16
  Like, if you don't want to work for three hours on a Monday afternoon, you don't have to work for three hours on a Monday afternoon.
• 1:05:22
  Don't worry about it.
• 1:05:23
  But you've got to, you know, find what works for you, make your own decisions and be unapologetic about it.
• 1:05:28
  Stop apologizing for the way you're living your life and your business.
• 1:05:31
  There's no one set rule.
• 1:05:32
  Yes.
• 1:05:33
  And don't feel guilty about it.
• 1:05:35
  Like, you know, Joanna and I talk about the time we take off and how we spend it, and we.
• 1:05:40
  We celebrate.
• 1:05:41
  Like, I don't work on Wednesdays afternoon because I do improv classes.
• 1:05:44
  And, you know, Joanna takes August off with her family, and we talk about that, and we're just trying to normalize the like, do it your way and like, yeah, stop looking at other people's websites and feeling like doing
• 1:05:55
  it their way, like, no, just be unapologetically you and.
• 1:05:59
  And enjoy it.
• 1:06:01
  Squeeze the juice of it all.
• 1:06:02
  Squeeze the juice of it all.
• 1:06:03
  Absolutely.
• 1:06:04
  And realize you can still be successful whilst doing that.
• 1:06:07
  It's not that the most successful people are only the people who are hustling and working every hour of every day.
• 1:06:12
  And, you know, I mean, that's a whole deeper question we can't go into now.
• 1:06:14
  But actually success means something different for everyone.
• 1:06:16
  Success for everyone isn't necessarily being a multi bazillionaire for some people.
• 1:06:21
  It's just having food on the table and being able to take Wednesday afternoons off.
• 1:06:24
  Exactly.
• 1:06:25
  Couldn't agree more.
• 1:06:26
  Love it.
• 1:06:27
  Now, I always have my podcast with the same question, Delia, so I'm going to ask you that now.
• 1:06:31
  And it's this.
• 1:06:32
  What's one thing you personally wish you'd known sooner in your own business?
• 1:06:36
  Oh, it's such a good question.
• 1:06:39
  What do I wish I had known sooner in my own own business?
• 1:06:42
  I wish I had known sooner that email marketing is so powerful.
• 1:06:49
  Like, I wish I'd started my email marketing list earlier because it's the one thing that you own, it's the one thing that will carry you everywhere you go.
• 1:07:01
  And I think it just took me a while to get that.
• 1:07:04
  And I also feel like so many people who maybe aren't ready to work with you today, they're not ready to hire you and me immediately.
• 1:07:13
  They might follow you on Instagram and then Instagram might stop showing you to them.
• 1:07:17
  But getting their email address is the second most powerful thing.
• 1:07:21
  Well, it's the most powerful thing you can do if they're not ready to work with you.
• 1:07:25
  It's like the most powerful secondary call to action.
• 1:07:28
  So I would say, yeah, get that email started sooner rather than later.
• 1:07:32
  It's a good one.
• 1:07:32
  And why do you think you held back for so long?
• 1:07:34
  What's the fear behind it?
• 1:07:35
  I think I didn't.
• 1:07:38
  I think I didn't understand the importance of it at the very beginning, if I'm honest, which is so silly because I had a really powerful email list at the travel company.
• 1:07:50
  But I also think when you're starting a business, there's so many things to do.
• 1:07:54
  Like, I think I was overwhelmed by all the things to do.
• 1:07:56
  You know, you're often finessing your craft, you're learning new things, you're trying to find clients, you're, you know, marketing can feel Very, very overwhelming.
• 1:08:07
  So I'm not sure that it was necessarily a fear, but more of an overwhelm thing and just not prioritizing it,.
• 1:08:14
  I would say makes perfect sense.
• 1:08:16
  Delia, it's been such a pleasure if people want to find out more about you, your services, all of the wonderful things you offer, where are the best places for them to go and find.
• 1:08:24
  You so you can learn more about storytelling if you want.
• 1:08:28
  Because I do an email newsletter where I do story selling and so you can come along and get that and see it in action.
• 1:08:36
  And that's@deliamonk.com newsletter and then you can also come and follow me on Instagram because even though I just said that thing about the algorithm, I do love it.
• 1:08:46
  I do love Instagram and that's where I hang out.
• 1:08:49
  So I am Delia Monk on Instagram.
• 1:08:53
  Fantastic.
• 1:08:54
  And I'll make sure I put all of the links to everything and your new podcast as well in the show notes so people can find you.
• 1:08:59
  Delia, it's been so lovely to catch up with you.
• 1:09:02
  Hopefully we'll be able to see each other in the person somewhere sometime very soon.
• 1:09:07
  But until then, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:09:09
  Thank you, Becca.
• 1:09:10
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:09:11
  Such a great conversation with Delia.
• 1:09:13
  I really enjoyed hearing her journey, how she got to where she is now, the highs and the lows, but also how all of that has shaped what she does now and how she's now helping you to find your
• 1:09:23
  spark, to learn how to sell better and to just be unapologetically yourself.
• 1:09:27
  I hope you've taken a lot from today's episode.
• 1:09:29
  Go and check her out, check out her podcast and I'll see you all next time.