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Plain Talk: Plastics in Beekeeping (306) · Honey Bee Obscura Podcast

0:01
Honey
0:01
Bee
0:01
Obscura
0:02
podcast listeners, it
0:05
's Jim.
0:07
Back to chat here for a few minutes.
0:10
I've had this on my mind off and on, and I feel like I need
0:15
maybe a disclaimer up front
0:18
I'm in a very relaxed, laid-back, sedate
0:22
place in life.
0:23
I don't look for controversy.
0:26
I don't look for challenge all that much.
0:28
I just want life to be pleasant and rewarding
0:32
and I want to enjoy my bees.
0:36
I'm skittish
0:38
today
0:38
a little bit
0:39
because I want to talk about plastic beekeeping.
0:43
I'd like to speak first
0:46
about my personal experiences in the pre-plastic
0:50
days, when plastic components and beekeeping was
0:55
rare.
0:57
And over a, I don't know, a 10 to 15 year period, plastic became a common aspect of beekeeping in our beekeeping
1:07
lives.
1:08
So
1:09
for the first half of our conversation today, I'd like to talk about that transition, about the changes that came along and try to discuss
1:20
some
1:20
of the realities
1:22
of non-plastic
1:24
beekeeping.
1:26
But it's been weighing on me more and more
1:29
Concerning me more and more, as I only know the very rudimentary details about microplastics.
1:37
and our food and then our environment
1:40
and our water
1:41
essentially everywhere.
1:43
And of course I immediately wondered about honey.
1:48
And once you open the box, you really can't put the lid
1:51
back on it in life.
1:54
And I open
1:55
the box
1:57
The last
1:57
half of this segment, I was going to just have a conversational
2:01
discussion
2:02
of
2:03
what
2:03
little bit
2:04
we know about
2:05
microplastics and honey
2:08
For the first time in three hundred and
2:11
what?
2:12
Six or seven episodes.
2:15
Oh
2:16
listeners, this may not be all that much of a plain talk discussion
2:19
because I really don't know what I'm talking about
2:22
or whose
2:22
toes.
2:23
I'm stepping on.
2:25
I'm Jim Tew
2:26
and I come to you here at Honey Bee Obscura once a week
2:30
where I normally
2:32
want
2:32
to talk about something to do
2:34
with plain talk beekeeping.
2:38
Welcome to Honey Bee Obscura, brought to you by Growing Planet Media, the producers
2:44
of the Beekeeping Today
2:46
podcast.
2:47
Join Jim Tew, your guide through the complexities, the beauty, the fun.
2:53
And the challenges of managing honey bees.
2:56
Jim hosts fun and interesting guests who take a deep dive into the intricate world of honey bees.
3:03
Whether you're a seasoned beekeeper
3:05
or just getting started, get ready for some plans.
3:08
Plain talk that'll delve into all things honey bees.
3:11
On one hand, it sounds like I'm about 160, 170 years old.
3:17
I always mention the weather.
3:19
The weather's fine right now.
3:21
And somehow I always work in my age because I just wrote an article for Bee Culture.
3:27
That the age of the beekeeper
3:29
reflects the potentialities of that beekeeper.
3:32
The younger and more healthy the beekeeper, the more
3:36
anxious and
3:38
able
3:40
is the beekeeper
3:41
to do
3:42
heavy task works and take stains
3:45
and heat.
3:46
And as you age, that becomes less and less.
3:48
So I always mention the weather, and I usually mention my age, because both of those things affect
3:54
what
3:54
I'm doing with bees
3:56
or
3:56
what I'm not doing with bees.
4:00
I go back long enough.
4:03
Back to around 1971 or two.
4:08
I mean I know there's up
4:09
there's people out there who
4:10
kept bees a lot longer than I.
4:12
I'm not looking for
4:13
a longevity
4:14
award
4:15
But
4:16
there was nothing in beekeeping then
4:18
but s
4:19
wood, some
4:21
sheet metal, a lot of glass, and
4:26
uh
4:27
then
4:27
maybe
4:28
cloth.
4:29
I used cloth canvas gloves.
4:31
I used screened w
4:33
metal screened
4:34
wired veils
4:36
that would rust when you perspired
4:38
on them.
4:40
I used
4:41
modified painter
4:43
outfit clothing that had been refitted
4:46
as a beekeeping garment.
4:48
There were no
4:49
dedicated beekeeping garments.
4:52
Indeed, many people just wore heavy clothes and
4:55
improvised some kind of screen over their head and went out and kept
5:00
bees.
5:01
Smoker quality has improved, but it hasn't changed much after the improvements that we use now.
5:08
But everywhere was wood
5:11
,
5:11
glass, and metal.
5:14
We immediately got into trouble, concerns, as we found out
5:20
that you shouldn't be using lead-based solder
5:24
and metal honey processing equipment.
5:27
So
5:27
some of that old equipment that was just built during the
5:31
Industrial Revolution
5:33
time, heavy
5:34
duty
5:35
steel, cast iron
5:37
No
5:38
nonsense stuff with clutches and gearing
5:41
and exposed belts and the motor sitting on the floor beside the extractor
5:46
driving that exposed belt
5:49
Oh
5:50
wow, listeners, we've come a long way.
5:52
I've got some photographs of that to show the old ways, the old days, and I have no interest in going back to it.
6:01
I don't know when or how.
6:03
I'm not trying to do
6:05
the end
6:06
all
6:06
in-depth discussion and review here.
6:09
I don't know when or how someone figured out that we were picking up too much lead.
6:13
in our honey when we use
6:15
lead-based solder
6:17
to assemble beekeeping equipment.
6:20
That came out.
6:22
And now we've got nice
6:23
spots
6:24
steel
6:24
welded
6:26
stainless steel equipment.
6:28
The
6:29
mechanism has been lightened, but nonetheless
6:32
durable
6:33
We have
6:34
good
6:34
processing equipment today.
6:38
Get ready for a spoiler alert.
6:40
Indeed, some of that extracting equipment is plastic.
6:44
More about that later on.
6:47
We use a lot of
6:49
plastic now
6:51
in the place of glass.
6:54
And I go back so long
6:56
So far ago that I was ecstatic when plastic, more and more, began to replace glass
7:04
as the honey bee container of choice.
7:09
All the plastic manufacturers did was copy the basic design
7:15
of
7:15
typical honey bottles, honey jars, and make them out of plastic
7:21
Why would I have been so embrace
7:23
of this technology?
7:26
Can you imagine what it's like?
7:29
When a one-pound
7:31
glass jar of honey
7:33
hits a cement floor, you think, well, this is a problem.
7:40
Because while you're trying to pick it up, there's glass shards contained in a thick, heavy
7:45
honey syrup
7:46
all over the place
7:49
And it was common to try to clean that up
7:52
and then go lay it outside
7:55
and let the bees rob it, restore it, reclaim it, and put it back in the hive.
8:00
As though somehow those poor insects would have the insight
8:06
not to eat
8:07
small glass particles, which would have been horrific
8:11
to their digestive system
8:14
It was a real
8:16
mess.
8:17
And I would say
8:18
just for the effects of drama, let there be a five-pound
8:23
jar of honey that drops.
8:26
How would you think that
8:28
bottled honey
8:30
in a cardboard box with cardboard separators, how often
8:36
Do you think that honey jars cracked or broke
8:39
when putting them on hand trucks, when getting away from you and dropping a case
8:44
to the ground?
8:46
Then you've got to immediately stop
8:49
Take out those jars that are not broken and those jars that are not covered in honey.
8:55
Separate the mess.
8:56
Just go throw everything away.
8:59
Never minding what the bees are going to be doing in the dumpster you put that contaminated honey in.
9:05
And then you've got these loose bottles that you've got to do something with if you didn't have another extra case there
9:12
All
9:12
of this is just normal
9:15
common
9:15
sense
9:16
insight.
9:18
Plastic
9:18
containers are much more forgiving
9:22
than glass containers.
9:24
Now, for all of you people who are as old as I am, you remember the controversy
9:31
that we faced.
9:33
There were the glass beekeepers and there were the plastic beekeepers.
9:37
And there were arguments at meetings, there were protestations
9:41
and
9:42
defensive parameters that this was getting away from classic beekeeping.
9:47
And we had the same argument as
9:49
beehives began to become plastic
9:52
in some instances.
9:54
There were early plastic beehives as far back as the early nineteen seventies
10:00
To some degree they were successful.
10:02
Some components were successful, bottom boards and tops, for instance.
10:07
But overall the hive bodies didn't work out.
10:11
At the time, when plastic hives and hive bodies were
10:15
becoming on the market, there was not really any plastic frames.
10:22
or plastic foundation.
10:24
And then
10:24
some of the companies were able to make plastic
10:27
reinforced foundation
10:30
that didn't require intensive wiring.
10:32
And here goes the controversy.
10:35
We've got to have more, you know, this
10:38
plastic in our
10:40
in our frames and
10:41
in our foundation to help us get away from wiring.
10:45
Well, to this day, right now.
10:47
Some of you listening
10:48
have no part of that stuff, and you go ahead and you wire frames just like we did in 1955, and it makes good
10:56
traditional
10:57
non-plasticized frames
11:01
Every step of the way, we fought the changes, and every step of the way there was controversy, and there was those beekeepers who stayed with the old way.
11:11
And there was those beekeepers who embraced the new way.
11:15
I need to talk about the cans for a minute.
11:18
The
11:18
the 60-pound storage cans.
11:21
They were about 30 inches high.
11:24
They were probably about a foot square, and they had a three-inch mouth on the top, and that was all.
11:32
And the B
11:33
Supply Company's manufactured honey
11:35
gates
11:36
that let
11:37
you lay that container on its side
11:40
and then let honey run from the open gate into the jar.
11:44
So you really didn't have to have a felt
11:46
of
11:47
a bottling
11:48
tank if you had the honey filtered when you put it in the can.
11:52
It was a difficult can to clean.
11:55
You only had a three
11:56
inch opening.
11:58
If you were really sophisticated, you probably had hot water
12:02
and that would help clean it out.
12:04
You couldn't scoop honey out.
12:06
once it granulated, you had to reheat the cans.
12:10
Those of you in really warm climates, like parts of Southern California and Arizona, there were wooden racks that sat outside, covered by a cage.
12:21
And
12:22
crystallized honey in 60-pound tins
12:25
would be turned upside down on those racks, and then as the sun
12:29
heated it,
12:31
it would run out and be collected in a fresh bucket somewhere
12:35
or for
12:36
fresh container that may or may not have been plastic.
12:40
Those 60-pound tins
12:43
had
12:43
small handles on top
12:46
that would just
12:47
really wreak havoc on your hands once you carried 60-pound
12:51
tins
12:52
all day
12:53
And as though I'm just trying to list everything wrong with them, they also were hard to stack.
13:00
Boom.
13:01
I don't remember when or
13:03
where
13:04
that someone said,
13:05
you know, this five-gallon plastic bucket with the lid
13:09
on top.
13:10
would
13:10
really be an improvement.
13:12
Better handle, bigger, big
13:14
massive opening.
13:16
The entire top would open.
13:18
So you could strain, you could do more, you had a lot more flexibility
13:23
with a five-gallon can.
13:24
So I don't know any beekeeper
13:26
today
13:27
who
13:27
doesn't have plastic five-gallon buckets all around them
13:31
because they are
13:33
so useful
13:35
for collecting cappings
13:37
for
13:38
mixing
13:39
cleaning solutions, water and soap.
13:42
They're easier to clean out
13:45
What?
13:46
Everything about them just seems to be
13:48
perfect
13:49
compared to those old cans.
13:52
And I've talked about this before, and I can
13:56
easily get off the subject.
13:59
Just talking to you, just you, and nobody else, honey can be kind of hard to eat
14:04
I mean, every time I eat honey at breakfast on some pancakes, invariably I get it on my fingers or on the table.
14:11
Try as I might, and I've tried every pouring device, every device I know of.
14:18
To
14:18
have a neat, clean, pouring device.
14:21
I haven't found the perfect thing.
14:24
The bottom line was that honey
14:27
was easier to manipulate and to handle
14:30
and generalized plastic equipment.
14:35
Over time, we have really gone that way
14:38
in every regard
14:40
Even now, we primarily use plastic queen cell cups.
14:46
In my earliest days, you made your cups out of molten
14:49
beeswax.
14:51
with
14:52
a d a probe or a dial
14:54
of dowel
14:55
D O
14:55
W
14:56
E
14:56
L
14:57
L L
14:57
D O W E L a dowel rod.
15:00
And you would make your queen
15:03
cell cups from that, and in general the bees accepted it better.
15:07
But you had to spend a lot of time making a cup at the time.
15:12
I won't go into the procedure.
15:14
And it was so much easier to open a box of plastic cell cups and just
15:20
skip
15:21
that whole cell dipping phase.
15:24
It eroded listeners.
15:26
I'm trying to tell you that
15:27
in my perspective, things changed incrementally
15:32
in every way, right
15:34
down now
15:35
frequently to
15:36
having plastic zippers on our beekeeping suits.
15:39
And
15:39
who wants those metal screens back instead of the vinyl
15:43
s uh
15:43
plastic that's in the veil
15:45
facing
15:46
now?
15:47
And those plasticized suits that are breathable, everything about them is more comfortable
15:55
Increasingly, we have nicely manufactured plastic beekeeping equipment, and I
16:00
to anyone making it, selling it, using it.
16:04
I offer no basis of complaint.
16:07
It's just where we are
16:09
now.
16:10
That is a conversational
16:12
overview.
16:14
of
16:14
the
16:15
fifteen
16:17
to twenty
16:18
years
16:18
I would guess
16:20
that plastic basically became a fundamental component in every aspect of our beekeeping lives.
16:28
It's a very useful
16:30
product.
16:32
It's
16:33
increased our
16:35
efficiency and productivity
16:38
probably immeasurably
16:41
It's here to stay.
16:43
So why are we having this discussion?
16:47
Because now
16:48
there is this
16:49
issue that
16:50
may not
16:51
be a big issue.
16:52
It may be an issue.
16:54
I can't tell that science
16:56
has a definitive answer right now.
16:59
And that's microplastics in our environment.
17:03
Should I go down this path
17:05
or not?
17:06
I don't know.
17:08
Let's take a break while I give myself a chance to decide.
17:13
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I don't know when I first heard about microplastics being an issue.
18:06
As
18:06
have
18:07
you.
18:08
I've seen all those plastic floating
18:11
garbage dumps on the ocean.
18:14
And I've seen the various ways that that ships and creators and inventors try to make
18:20
screens and catches that can bring in or
18:23
bring this plastic in and
18:25
get this tons of stuff out of the ocean.
18:28
It's everywhere.
18:30
And I'd never thought about it.
18:33
The
18:33
plastic and our landfills.
18:35
We think, well, it
18:36
'll take years, but it'll finally erode
18:39
and go away
18:41
Well
18:41
in reality, a little bit of
18:44
like
18:44
sewage, it doesn't really go away.
18:47
It just goes somewhere else in a different form.
18:51
But at the molecular level
18:53
and at the
18:54
at the really small micron level, it's
18:57
still there.
18:59
Listeners
19:00
and producers
19:01
and anyone else, this is just a conversation.
19:04
I read the same stuff that you people
19:07
read.
19:08
And I don't know where all this is going
19:12
Simply put, is microplastics and honey?
19:17
And the simple answer
19:18
at some level, yes, it is.
19:21
How could it not be?
19:23
There's been studies, interestingly, from different countries, uh
19:28
Brazil, Egypt.
19:31
Got some
19:32
I actually have some notes here because this was concerning to me.
19:36
Turkey
19:37
that has done work on this and has found that microplastics
19:42
are
19:43
in honey.
19:45
Well what the
19:45
how does that happen?
19:47
Well since microplastics are so small
19:50
they can be in air and dust.
19:52
That settles on the flowers and when bees forage
19:55
they pick up nectar in the field that already has microplastics in it.
20:02
The bees themselves, of course, ingest
20:05
that while they're foraging, and then they transfer some of these particles back into the nectar and the hive
20:13
that's later converted into honey
20:15
And then some of the other ways this early research has come up with is that, yes, plastic does turn up
20:22
and
20:24
and honey
20:24
that's been processed by beekeepers.
20:28
The plastic containers,
20:30
plastic equipment, airborne fibers.
20:34
All of this
20:35
kind of
20:36
offers the opportunity
20:38
for plastic
20:40
particles
20:42
to enter our honey crop
20:45
I want to say at this point, it's not just honey.
20:48
I mean, it's in my water.
20:50
It's I don't I don't know what it means.
20:52
But
20:52
it's time, science
20:54
is
20:55
is not clear on the severity of it
20:58
and if this should be something that we really
21:00
go to the mat
21:01
on, which ironically
21:03
that mat
21:03
would be made out of plastic
21:05
and
21:06
really make changes
21:07
or if our systems are able to handle it
21:10
or if there's ways to get plastic out of our food products, out of our animal feed products, and anywhere else
21:18
That we don't want it.
21:20
I rarely give numbers, but
21:23
in Turkey, in 2024, 75
21:26
%
21:27
of the 32 honey samples that were tested
21:30
Contain
21:31
plastics, about
21:32
314
21:33
particles per kilogram.
21:36
In Italy, all 29
21:37
samples.
21:39
Work
21:39
tested, contain
21:41
microplastics, averaging about 62 particles per kilogram.
21:46
In Egypt, it was just about the same.
21:49
I don't know why these countries have
21:52
had an interest in it, but it's helpful.
21:54
There's almost no information
21:56
for most countries in Africa about this kind of thing.
22:01
I
22:02
don't know how to conf
22:04
to keep going with this.
22:06
I don't know.
22:07
I'm concerned about honey.
22:09
I'm concerned about bees.
22:10
I'm concerned about beekeepers.
22:12
But I don't know if I should be concerned
22:15
or the level of concern I have if there is an issue here.
22:19
That's why I put down a qualifier when I began this, that
22:23
Maybe this was a dark rabbit hole that I shouldn't go down, but if it's an issue, do I just avoid it or do you and I talk about it?
22:32
But the main thing I don't want to do is to start
22:34
some kind of hysteria among our listening group about the quality of our honey, because it's not just our honey, it's the quality of our life
22:42
if
22:43
it is an issue.
22:45
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration says current scientific evidence does not demonstrate that the levels of microplastics
22:54
detected in foods
22:56
pose a human risk.
22:58
The scientists are still investigating how particle size, polymer type, exposure levels, and long-term consumption might affect the health of humans and livestock.
23:11
Honey appears to be one of the possible dietary exposure sources
23:17
rather than
23:18
anti-establishment
23:20
major sources.
23:21
So
23:22
can you choose
23:24
An article?
23:25
Can you choose a pathway that doesn't have microplastics?
23:30
There isn't enough evidence to say that one honey is consistently safer than another
23:36
organic, raw, local, glass
23:39
jar honey,
23:40
none of these
23:41
are guaranteed to be microplastic
23:43
fruit.
23:45
Isn't that an oddity?
23:46
So if all of a sudden we we decided that this plastic container thing is serious enough
23:51
and we go back, the honey is still going to have some microplastics in it.
23:56
Because of the environmental concerns that are out there and the environmental sources for microplastics.
24:02
You can choose reputable honey producers with good handling and processing practices.
24:08
You can store honey in clean and tightly sealed glass jars if that's convenient, and that will help some.
24:16
And
24:16
uh
24:17
just assume that it's going to be in nearly any honey you eat, no matter what its classification is, raw, organic, filtered, unfiltered.
24:27
It's in our honey, listeners, and I don't know what it means.
24:30
It's in our food, listeners, and I don't know what it means.
24:32
It's in some of our water.
24:33
It's in our air.
24:35
I don't know what it means
24:37
But
24:37
out of all of the spectrum
24:39
of uncertainty, as usual, honey has not been omitted.
24:45
And the reason for it is that honey is an excellent environmental indicator.
24:51
Since bees forage over such a wide area, it gives researchers
24:55
not really concerned about honey or bees.
24:58
but concerned about the spread
25:01
and the amount of these microplastics, frequently use
25:05
bees and honey.
25:06
As a bioindicator for what's going on.
25:10
I
25:11
am not
25:11
trying to be the end-all
25:13
answer.
25:14
I
25:14
am not trying to cause concern or issue.
25:18
I'm just trying to discuss.
25:21
With myself and with you, a topic that keeps turning up
25:26
in the literature, in my searches, and in the news, not just honey
25:32
But in general, but every time it turns up that
25:35
these particles have been found in, I don't know, pet food
25:39
or
25:39
wherever, my first thought is always, well, I hope that doesn't affect honey in the same way
25:46
This
25:46
at this point, with
25:49
science that we have, the
25:53
knowledge that we have,
25:55
With the fact that there has not been any indication that I know of of mass plastic toxicity
26:02
being reported in hospitals.
26:05
I hope that this is something that can be resolved.
26:09
Maybe filters can be improved.
26:11
I d
26:12
I don't know what can be done.
26:14
Maybe plastic
26:16
polymer configuration can be changed so that it
26:19
I don't know.
26:20
I don't
26:20
the cut the chemistry is too complex for me.
26:23
The issue is too complex for me.
26:25
I just know that it's there.
26:29
Listeners, I really hope
26:30
that I'm not going to be
26:34
disappointed, threatened, frightened.
26:37
That I took on a subject that weighs on me, but I don't know how much it weighs on me, and I don't know what to do with the concern, if
26:46
indeed
26:47
I should even have concerns.
26:50
I just brought the topic up.
26:52
Did I weasel
26:53
word everything enough?
26:55
Give me a chance, and next week I'll talk about something more routine, something more plain talk, and I'll stay away from the new stuff.
27:02
I'm not trying to be an innovator.
27:05
That brings you the latest, greatest
27:07
breaking news.
27:08
I want someone who's still working in the scientific industry
27:12
who's capable to do that, to be the one who brings us that news.
27:17
I'm just talking to you.
27:20
conversational format.
27:21
Until next week, I'm Jim
27:24
telling you
27:24
bye.