Latest / WCHS Network Podcasts / Ask the Lawyer: Google's Putnam County Data Center, the Governor's Nuclear Stumble & WV's Death Penalty Debate

Transcript

Ask the Lawyer: Google's Putnam County Data Center, the Governor's Nuclear Stumble & WV's Death Penalty Debate · WCHS Network Podcasts

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  Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed on this program do not
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  Speaker 1: necessarily reflect the views and opinions of 580 WCHS, its employees,
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  Speaker 1: or WVRC Media. In our courts, all men are created equal.
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  Speaker 2: We're mass communicating.
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  Speaker 3: Breaking rocks in a hot sun.
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  Speaker 4: I thought the law had no one.
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  Speaker 5: You can put the power of Payton on your side
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  Speaker 5: this morning. Thanks so much for tuning in to Ask
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  Speaker 5: the Lawyer with the Payton Law Firm. And Harvey is
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  Speaker 5: back in studio this morning. Harvey Payton from the Payton
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  Speaker 5: Law Firm is joining us this morning, taking your phone
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  Speaker 5: calls at 304-345-5858. Harvey, good morning. How are you doing
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  Speaker 5: this morning?
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  Speaker 6: I'm quite well, Coop. Things are going well at the
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  Speaker 6: Payton Law Firm. And I've got to turn my mic.
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  Speaker 6: There we go.
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  Speaker 5: Sorry about that.
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  Speaker 6: Okay, there we go. I've got to turn my earphones up.
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  Speaker 6: Drove in from Putnam County this morning, and I'm here
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  Speaker 6: again on the news that the Putnam County Commission is
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  Speaker 6: one of the lead stories with regard to a resolution
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  Speaker 6: adopted at the county commission meeting this week, which lays
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  Speaker 6: out ground rules for the future, hopefully, for folks other
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  Speaker 6: than Google. Most people know Google is in place and
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  Speaker 6: has acquired about 1,700 acres of land just north of Buffalo,
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  Speaker 6: West Virginia, on the Kanawha River at the confluence of
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  Speaker 6: the Kanawha and 18 Mile Creek, for the building of
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  Speaker 6: apparently a mega data center, which touched off not a firestorm.
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  Speaker 6: I think the folks in Putnam County handled this really well.
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  Speaker 6: It wasn't like the smoking ordinance, which when the Board
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  Speaker 6: of Health adopted that, there was almost a riot in
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  Speaker 6: the hallways. I think people were civil. The county commission
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  Speaker 6: did the best they could under the constraints that they
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  Speaker 6: are faced with and came up now with a resolution
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  Speaker 6: saying that, you know, Putnam County has countywide zoning and
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  Speaker 6: planning and that any future development of a data center
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  Speaker 6: will be expected to comply with those planning and zoning rules. Now,
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  Speaker 6: does that have the force of law? I don't know.
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  Speaker 6: We all know that the legislature and its eminent wisdom is,
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  Speaker 6: two years ago passed a law that pretty much flew
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  Speaker 6: under the radar, saying that with regard to these certified
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  Speaker 6: data centers, much of the information with regard to development,
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  Speaker 6: the enticement, initiatives, incentives for development are not subject to
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  Speaker 6: the Freedom of Information Act. The Open Governmental Proceedings Act
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  Speaker 6: does not apply to the convening of things like... county
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  Speaker 6: development authorities and planning commissions to discuss this, all meant
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  Speaker 6: to allow these projects to percolate along out of the
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  Speaker 6: public eye until they sort of burst on you like
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  Speaker 6: full-blown from your ear, which is what happened in Putnam County.
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  Speaker 6: I mean, I sort of had an inkling that this
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  Speaker 6: was going to happen because a client of mine has
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  Speaker 6: some property next to this, and I could see the
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  Speaker 6: people who were involved, and they needed to get a
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  Speaker 6: little variance on a boundary line. And, um, because I've
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  Speaker 6: had some experience with another client on the other side
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  Speaker 6: of the river, uh, who was approached about significant payment
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  Speaker 6: for a piece of property. This looks like a data center. Well,
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  Speaker 6: a couple of days later, boom, here it comes. It's Google.
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  Speaker 6: It's a data center, uh, about which I'll have to say,
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  Speaker 6: I have mixed reviews. I've not been a part of
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  Speaker 6: any of the, of the, you know, Putnam data center movement. Um, Overall,
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  Speaker 6: it may well be a good thing. If the legislature
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  Speaker 6: had kept their nose out of it and perhaps just
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  Speaker 6: put some limits on what obstructions could put in place
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  Speaker 6: and what information had to be made available to avoid this,
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  Speaker 6: people would have known. They wouldn't have been surprised. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: you live in a small rural community in northern Putnam County,
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  Speaker 6: and it's been quiet, well, for 30 years since Toyota
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  Speaker 6: moved in. That was the first big addition to the
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  Speaker 6: city or the town. And then the next day, you know, well, hey,
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  Speaker 6: there's this data center. We don't know anything about it.
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  Speaker 6: We don't know who's building it. You know, what do
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  Speaker 6: you expect? You're going to get some controversy. My sort
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  Speaker 6: of probably backward attitude is some of my family own
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  Speaker 6: land where this data center is going to be. They
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  Speaker 6: were bought out by the power company back in the
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  Speaker 6: late 60s, the Lanier's and the Gearhart's, right in the
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  Speaker 6: heart of where this piece of property, where the data
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  Speaker 6: center is going to go. And so they sold out
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  Speaker 6: and moved to Point Pleasant. Uh, but the power company
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  Speaker 6: intended American electric power and Ohio power and Appalachian power
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  Speaker 6: intended to build two more John Amos size power stations,
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  Speaker 6: coal fired power stations, one across from Toyota in the
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  Speaker 6: bottom land there, or perhaps where the Toyota plant is
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  Speaker 6: now on the South end of Buffalo and the other
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  Speaker 6: on the North end, uh, on the old Lanier Smith,
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  Speaker 6: your heart properties. And, uh, So Buffalo would be today
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  Speaker 6: what Cheshire, Ohio is. Cheshire, Ohio is a town that
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  Speaker 6: the power company has largely bought out. It's got the
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  Speaker 6: Gavin power plant on one side and the Cuyahoga Creek
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  Speaker 6: on the other. I mean, they are stones throw apart,
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  Speaker 6: and that's what the plan was. Maybe we're just about 50,
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  Speaker 6: 60 years late in that coming. We'll have to see
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  Speaker 6: what happens.
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  Speaker 1: In it.
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  Speaker 6: It's just what you expect, I think, when the government
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  Speaker 6: tries to act in secret. Why do you do that?
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  Speaker 6: Why do you do that? We found out again this week,
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  Speaker 6: Hoppe has a commentary this morning, which I thought was excellent,
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  Speaker 6: about the governor's absolute bungle of this nuclear campus, which involves, perhaps,
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  Speaker 6: it involves for sure a commitment, not necessarily an actuality,
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  Speaker 6: but a commitment that if needed as a part of
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  Speaker 6: this campus development, which could be a big deal economically.
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  Speaker 6: Tens of thousands of jobs, high tech, something like Tennessee's
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  Speaker 6: enjoyed for decades, associated with the nuclear industry. Maybe some
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  Speaker 6: disposal of current spent nuclear waste or nuclear waste that's
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  Speaker 6: been in storage in other facilities because nobody knew about it.
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  Speaker 6: When an application was made, there was no explanation of
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  Speaker 6: why this was needed, what it was, just a tub-thumping
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  Speaker 6: announcement by the governor like three weeks ago that this
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  Speaker 6: is coming. And then, of course, the reporters like Brad
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  Speaker 6: McElhaney and Mike Toney and Steve Adams, who are, quote, reporters,
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  Speaker 6: they read the documents and said, well, wait a minute.
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  Speaker 6: What about this nuclear waste disposal? Well, then the governor's
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  Speaker 6: office said, well, that's That's just a bureaucratic letter. Well,
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  Speaker 6: it's a memorandum of understanding that he signed and still
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  Speaker 6: insisted and continues to insist, well, we're just going to withdraw.
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  Speaker 6: We're going to quit and go home. Well, if you
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  Speaker 6: were for it, be for it. F-O-R. Be for the
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  Speaker 6: project and have the gumption to say, well, and I just,
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  Speaker 6: yesterday or the day before, I was in the car
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  Speaker 6: and I was listening to, I think it was Talk Line.
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  Speaker 6: Is that the one that comes on at 10 o'clock?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, well, Senator Capito was on there. And she
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  Speaker 6: was asked about this. And, I mean, Senator Capito is
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  Speaker 6: a Republican. I'm pretty much a lifelong Democrat. I don't
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  Speaker 6: agree with a lot of things that she says and does,
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  Speaker 6: but I do agree with a lot of things that
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  Speaker 6: she says and does. Like this bipartisan regulatory bill they enacted.
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  Speaker 6: Now it's going to get the administrative state under some control,
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  Speaker 6: which it needs to be. But I thought she gave
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  Speaker 6: an excellent explanation of how this whole concept had developed.
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  Speaker 6: around a problem that's been kicked down this road for
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  Speaker 6: about 50 years. You know, there's a nuclear waste was
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  Speaker 6: supposed to be stored in Nevada under a mountain, but
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  Speaker 6: that's never happened. And, you know, research and development in
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  Speaker 6: nuclear energy has been stalled in the United States essentially
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  Speaker 6: since Three Mile Island. And she gave about a five,
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  Speaker 6: three minute to five minutes, seemed longer on the radio.
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  Speaker 6: And I thought, well, you know, Why isn't her son governor?
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  Speaker 6: He could have explained it the way she does. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: they're Moors. I mean, one thing the Moors have is
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  Speaker 6: the gift of gab. They have the ability to explain.
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  Speaker 6: Arch Moore could talk anything to death. He could make
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  Speaker 6: you like anything with his line. I think his daughter's
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  Speaker 6: got a lot of that. And I suspect that somehow
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  Speaker 6: he was on the ballot and he was rejected. And,
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  Speaker 6: you know, so was Steve Williams, who brought a city,
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  Speaker 6: the second or third largest city out of the doldrums
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  Speaker 6: by explaining things to people. Elections have consequences, and now
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  Speaker 6: we're out of contention because of bungling and not bungling
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  Speaker 6: by the people.
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  Speaker 5: The thing that really seems to be strange with me,
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  Speaker 5: and I didn't mean to cut you off here, but
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  Speaker 5: the thing that bothers me about this type of thing,
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  Speaker 5: just as a constituent, For example, with this nuclear thing,
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  Speaker 5: I'm smart and I'm not an expert in any field,
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  Speaker 5: but I'm fairly well read and I keep up with things.
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  Speaker 5: I know that there's been massive movements in nuclear storage
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  Speaker 5: technology and generation technology in the last several decades.
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  Speaker 6: What was true for.
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  Speaker 5: My parents is not true today as far as safety
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  Speaker 5: and things like that goes. But the thing is, most
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  Speaker 5: people don't really know what the current status of safety
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  Speaker 5: of nuclear is, storage and things like that. An education
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  Speaker 5: piece for the public before announcing something like this would
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  Speaker 5: have gone, would have been a good. Now, of course,
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  Speaker 5: those things get politicized and you're not going to be
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  Speaker 5: able to help some of that. But at least making
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  Speaker 5: the information available, because I think if most sober people
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  Speaker 5: look at the information, they can at least decide on
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  Speaker 5: their own, oh, okay, well, I didn't know that universal
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  Speaker 5: canister systems have come so long. I didn't know that
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  Speaker 5: deep drill isolation storage has been successful. These are things
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  Speaker 5: that we should learn about, right, before these decisions are
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  Speaker 5: just announced.
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  Speaker 6: Well, absolutely. And, you know, it's not the responsibility of
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  Speaker 6: the citizen voter to to just conjure up in their
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  Speaker 6: mind what might be in the future as a prospect
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  Speaker 6: and then go educate themselves about what might happen. How
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  Speaker 6: could you? We're not too dumb to know what we'll
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  Speaker 6: say yes to, but it's the responsibility of the person
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  Speaker 6: who wants to impose what may be a burden on
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  Speaker 6: our lifestyle or finances to explain here's why it's a
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  Speaker 6: good thing so we can make a decision. There was
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  Speaker 6: a link at the bottom of Hoppy's commentary to another
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  Speaker 6: commentary about one of the a person who's not the
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  Speaker 6: dean of broadcasters or commentators, about what will West Virginians
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  Speaker 6: say yes to, which I don't think it meant to
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  Speaker 6: imply that West Virginians are too dumb or too unconcerned
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  Speaker 6: to learn about projects. It pointed out that information is
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  Speaker 6: what's the key, but it did conclude with, well, so
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  Speaker 6: what will West Virginians say yes to if they want
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  Speaker 6: to say yes to nuclear power, transmission lines, or data centers? Well,
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  Speaker 6: That's not too hard to make a list. Clean water
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  Speaker 6: in the seven Coalfield counties and roads that don't blow
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  Speaker 6: the tires out on your car and enough funding for
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  Speaker 6: small schools to stay in communities without disrupting, like Boone
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  Speaker 6: County now is having their entire culture disrupted by the
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  Speaker 6: closure of schools and, you know, decent health care. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: those are all things that might be a condition precedent
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  Speaker 6: to moving on to other things, or if they move
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  Speaker 6: along together, So we didn't feel like we were simply
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  Speaker 6: bearing the burden and not reaping the benefit. It might
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  Speaker 6: be helpful, I think. But it's the job of the
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  Speaker 6: people who propose these developments and of government to make
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  Speaker 6: it plain and to tell the people the truth. The truth.
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  Speaker 6: Not make up things or conceal things and then just
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  Speaker 6: quit when you get caught with your hand in the
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  Speaker 6: cookie jar, which is just what happened this week. Yeah.
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  Speaker 6: Having said that, that's sort of an aside. I mean,
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  Speaker 6: in my heart, I'm glad to see development come to
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  Speaker 6: Putnam County. I think that Google, because of the uproar
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  Speaker 6: that's taken place and because of the national sort of
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  Speaker 6: upheaval against data centers, which may be the subject of
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  Speaker 6: some misinformation, they will do what the county commission asks
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  Speaker 6: them to do. They will put up sound barriers. They'll
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  Speaker 6: have some reconfiguration to avoid light pollution. You know, Toyota
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  Speaker 6: motor manufacturing has put a dike, a visual dike barrier
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  Speaker 6: around their facility. They are well lit at night, but
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  Speaker 6: they have, uh, planting and screening that keeps it from
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  Speaker 6: disrupting the town. I don't think there's any reason to
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  Speaker 6: feel that on the other end of town, a major
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  Speaker 6: manufacturer who wants to work with us and have a good,
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  Speaker 6: be a good neighbor won't do that. Uh, you know, it's, uh,
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  Speaker 6: as opposed to a coal-fired power plant and become in Cheshire, Ohio,
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  Speaker 6: it's a heck of a lot better. It's taken a
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  Speaker 6: lot longer, but it's much better. Now, I wanted to
• 13:45
  Speaker 6: shift gears. One thing we do at the Payton Law
• 13:49
  Speaker 6: Firm is a lot of litigation. We've done a lot
• 13:51
  Speaker 6: of litigation. Not every case ends up in court. And
• 13:57
  Speaker 6: don't be afraid if you have a claim for an
• 13:59
  Speaker 6: injury or a loss. that you're absolutely going to be
• 14:02
  Speaker 6: in court because it's a frightening thing for lay people.
• 14:06
  Speaker 6: But the value of a case ultimately is determined by
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  Speaker 6: what the other side fears or knows you can do
• 14:13
  Speaker 6: to them in a courtroom. And one of the real
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  Speaker 6: valuable things in American jurisprudence is the right to cross-examine
• 14:23
  Speaker 6: a witness. either in a civil case or the absolute
• 14:28
  Speaker 6: constitutional right to confront and cross-examine your accusers in a
• 14:31
  Speaker 6: criminal case. Uh, I'll thought my own time. I'm really
• 14:36
  Speaker 6: good at it. I mean, I spent the first two
• 14:38
  Speaker 6: years out of law school as a federal law clerk
• 14:41
  Speaker 6: watching really good lawyers, dry cases, watching people like, uh,
• 14:45
  Speaker 6: Jay West and Herb Underwood and, uh, uh, Jerry Jones.
• 14:50
  Speaker 6: And I mean, really, really good lawyers track cases and
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  Speaker 6: cross examine witnesses and you get a feel for the rhythm.
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  Speaker 6: And then I went, I got out, left the government.
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: I did work for a couple of years for a
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: small insurance carrier that had a lot of trials. And,
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: you know, you sit down here and you go to
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: trial with people like, uh, John Slack and Teak Schaefer
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: and Ed Eardley. And I mean, the best of the best, you,
• 15:13
  Speaker 6: you get the hang of it. And, uh, So I
• 15:16
  Speaker 6: always did have the hang of it. I still do,
• 15:18
  Speaker 6: but I don't do that much trial work. But one
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  Speaker 6: of the important things is it takes preparation. Like I've
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: never tried a civil case or even a criminal case
• 15:30
  Speaker 6: that I didn't visit the scene of the occurrence. That's
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: so important. Look around. What color are the houses? Look
• 15:38
  Speaker 6: on the tax records and see who lives there. Then
• 15:40
  Speaker 6: you get a witness on the stand saying, And they
• 15:43
  Speaker 6: start talking about a particular factor occurrence and say, well,
• 15:46
  Speaker 6: how far was it after you passed the yellow house? Well,
• 15:50
  Speaker 6: he knows there's a yellow house there, but he doesn't
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: know how I know it. And he doesn't know then
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: how much more I know, but he knows. And so
• 15:59
  Speaker 6: it kind of throws a scare into him. One thing
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  Speaker 6: you never do is just conjure up a theory that
• 16:08
  Speaker 6: you don't adequately test and lay it out in front
• 16:11
  Speaker 6: of a witness because, Having done that at least once
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: in my career, when you end up standing in front
• 16:16
  Speaker 6: of a jury of six or 12 people and it
• 16:18
  Speaker 6: feels like your pants are unzipped and your arms are paralyzed,
• 16:22
  Speaker 6: it's no fun. Which brings to mind, do not look
• 16:28
  Speaker 6: at a text message that refers to a row and
• 16:30
  Speaker 6: seat number in a basketball arena and then go look
• 16:34
  Speaker 6: at the NBA schedule for that particular day and find
• 16:37
  Speaker 6: out there was a game played in Atlanta. You confront
• 16:40
  Speaker 6: a really seasoned, experienced, and honorable lawyer with a gotcha
• 16:44
  Speaker 6: moment while you're holding up a sign. And find out
• 16:50
  Speaker 6: that the guy who was in the— I mean, obviously I'm
• 16:52
  Speaker 6: talking about the Jack Smith. Eric, what's his name?
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  Speaker 5: The two media spheres that have bubbled out from that,
• 16:57
  Speaker 5: the people that ignore the follow-up that occurred after the
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  Speaker 5: supposed gotcha moment, and then the people that continue down
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: the road of what all the information actually meant. It's
• 17:08
  Speaker 5: amazing the people that select to stop the video at
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: a certain point and not at the pantsing moment.
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  Speaker 6: Well, yeah, of course, the man was Jack Smith. Jack
• 17:17
  Speaker 6: Smith's obviously a very, very aggressive federal prosecutor. I'll be honest.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: Those are the kind of prosecutors I didn't care much
• 17:24
  Speaker 6: for in the federal system. I mean, they're just hard-ass,
• 17:28
  Speaker 6: you know, my way or the highway sort of people. Well,
• 17:31
  Speaker 6: but that's what you pay them to do. And obviously
• 17:34
  Speaker 6: the man was perplexed when this guy from Missouri starts
• 17:37
  Speaker 6: asking about being in Atlanta, because the fact is he
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: was at a, he was in college park, Maryland that day.
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  Speaker 6: And in the company of the United States marshal service,
• 17:47
  Speaker 6: he had security. I mean, it's, it's an absolute iron clad,
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  Speaker 6: just a flat out bungle by John Kennedy. He was holding,
• 17:58
  Speaker 6: you know, the Mr. Homily man that can blow up
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  Speaker 6: an onion sack. He, He's holding the poster. And so, obviously, Mr.
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: Smith's first response is to look at the guy like
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: he's from Mars. And that's where the tape stops for
• 18:11
  Speaker 6: those who want to say, ah, he's gone. But if
• 18:14
  Speaker 6: you watch the whole thing, I don't take any pleasure
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  Speaker 6: in it. I mean, it's just one of those things.
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  Speaker 6: The hearing wasn't held to find out anything. The hearing
• 18:22
  Speaker 6: was held because the majority party in the Senate wants
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: to wool this guy around and play gotcha moments. If
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: you want to find out about his investigation, ask the
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: judge down in Florida, who is a Trump appointee and
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: who has protected him at every turn, to authorize the
• 18:41
  Speaker 6: release of the report. And then you can have a
• 18:44
  Speaker 6: hearing and the public can see what you're talking about.
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  Speaker 6: But I thought of that from the standpoint of cross-examining.
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  Speaker 6: He was Attorney General of Missouri. Think about that. He
• 18:57
  Speaker 6: just violated the absolute most basic principle of cross-examining, or
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  Speaker 6: catching a witness in a lie, not knowing there was
• 19:06
  Speaker 6: a lie even told. I mean, when you start doing that,
• 19:09
  Speaker 6: you better be sure. It's like killing the king. If
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: you're going to try and kill the king, you know,
• 19:14
  Speaker 6: don't take a ball bat. Take an M16. I mean,
• 19:18
  Speaker 6: it's just, I just thought it was a horrible bungle.
• 19:22
  Speaker 6: It's terrible.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't be surprised if AI wasn't involved with this somewhere,
• 19:25
  Speaker 5: like some investigator or somebody for the staffer or something
• 19:29
  Speaker 5: like that dumped in a bunch of information. This seemed
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: like one of those things that– why were you absurdly
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: confident in something that it took three seconds to read
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: the accompanying information and be like, oh, that doesn't match?
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: It would take zero time to see that it didn't match.
• 19:44
  Speaker 6: Well, the only defect I found in your question was
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: you said what staffer– let's revise that to what.
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: Ex-staffer. Yeah, right.
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: I would suspect that the next sound you hear was
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: the wind whistling on the door, shutting on somebody's hand
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: in on the way out the door. But, you know...
• 20:03
  Speaker 6: It is a little segue into what we do and
• 20:05
  Speaker 6: do really well at the Payton Law Firm, which is
• 20:07
  Speaker 6: represent people, not corporations or banks, but people like you
• 20:14
  Speaker 6: and I, people who exist at sea level, not up
• 20:16
  Speaker 6: in ivory towers, and who live in West Virginia and
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: work in West Virginia or Ohio, because we practice over
• 20:24
  Speaker 6: there as well, in disputes with insurance companies, banks, banks,
• 20:32
  Speaker 6: financial institutions, product manufacturers, railroads, employers. And when we take
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: those claims, we always work, I mean, we really work
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: on finding out all the facts. And, you know, if
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: you're getting ready to try and settle a case, then
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: you've got to get that case ready to present to
• 20:52
  Speaker 6: the other side and say, here's what you risk we're
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: going to do to you if we get this case
• 20:57
  Speaker 6: in court. Now, it works both ways. I mean, you
• 20:59
  Speaker 6: can't be myopic and just look at what's good about
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: your case because if you do that, you're going to
• 21:04
  Speaker 6: make mistakes. Sometimes you have to look at your client
• 21:07
  Speaker 6: and say, look, this is the best we're going to do.
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: Our best chance to get this kind of money out
• 21:11
  Speaker 6: of this case is to take what they're offering here
• 21:14
  Speaker 6: and go. So it works both ways, but you only
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: know when it works if you've prepared and you've studied
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: the facts. I mean, I think visiting the scene, which
• 21:25
  Speaker 6: is another reason to get lawyers who are local is
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: so important check the tax records see who lives around
• 21:32
  Speaker 6: there take photographs i mean in criminal cases in particular
• 21:36
  Speaker 6: and then you know i don't want to give away
• 21:39
  Speaker 6: all my you know it's sort of a you got
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: to cut down the courtroom and get it into your
• 21:47
  Speaker 6: form so if you can be the first one to
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: get a diagram so it gets you a little diagram
• 21:53
  Speaker 6: of the scene or i We used to work with
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: a wonderful guy who was with highways. He was an
• 21:59
  Speaker 6: engineer with structures. And Jim said, let's go down and
• 22:01
  Speaker 6: take a look at this stretch of road, see what
• 22:03
  Speaker 6: the sight line is, and let's do a map here
• 22:06
  Speaker 6: and put these houses in. Well, first thing you want
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: to do as soon as you can is get that
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: in there and get it up on the board so
• 22:13
  Speaker 6: everybody's using your exhibit. Don't let the other side get
• 22:17
  Speaker 6: their drawing in first. Make them come to you. It's
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: sort of like a A politician, if you're a good
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: politician or, I'm not a good politician, but if you're
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: a person who understands how to get things done, to
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: develop some standing, you go stand in the corner. And
• 22:38
  Speaker 6: somebody says, well, Joe Schmoe would like to meet you.
• 22:41
  Speaker 6: I say, well, that's fine. I'll be right here. Don't
• 22:44
  Speaker 6: leave the corner and go see Joe Schmoe. that's just
• 22:48
  Speaker 6: not the way it happens. And that's the same way
• 22:49
  Speaker 6: it is in a courtroom. Well, our exhibits are right here,
• 22:52
  Speaker 6: so you come on to these. If you have an
• 22:55
  Speaker 6: injury or a claim or suffered any sort of a loss,
• 23:01
  Speaker 6: I just don't think you could do any better to me,
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: particularly if you're in the Putnam, Mason, Lincoln, Cabell County area,
• 23:08
  Speaker 6: Kanawha County, or Southeast Ohio than coming to see us
• 23:12
  Speaker 6: at the Payton Law Firm. Now, you may not hire us,
• 23:15
  Speaker 6: You might look online and find somebody online that looks
• 23:18
  Speaker 6: better or has bigger billboards. I don't know. Size matters,
• 23:22
  Speaker 6: I guess, in some things. Not in the practice of law.
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: I just don't go with that. Like, it doesn't matter
• 23:31
  Speaker 6: with schools. They complain about these small schools they're closing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: How many students does Harvard have as opposed to WVU?
• 23:38
  Speaker 6: Which one's the better school? It's just a matter of emphasis. But,
• 23:42
  Speaker 6: you know, you can call our office. 304-755-5556. One of
• 23:49
  Speaker 6: our staff, probably Melody Matthews, longtime Melody Whittington was her
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: maiden name down at Buffalo, or it'd be Amber Wentz
• 23:56
  Speaker 6: from Nitro or Shannon Parkins from Polka or Jennifer from
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: Polka or Marianne from St. Albans or me or Tom
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: will answer the phone. And generally we'll call you in.
• 24:08
  Speaker 6: We'll talk a little bit about what your issue is,
• 24:10
  Speaker 6: or you can send us an email at And we
• 24:13
  Speaker 6: can email back and forth by going through paytonlawfirm.com. And then,
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: you know, if it sounds like the equities are on
• 24:18
  Speaker 6: your side or you've got legitimate beef, well, come on
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: in the office, bring whatever papers you've got, and let's
• 24:25
  Speaker 6: talk about it. You know, that's all before we can
• 24:29
  Speaker 6: decide and you can decide who you want to hire
• 24:32
  Speaker 6: as a lawyer. You've got to know a little bit
• 24:34
  Speaker 6: about who you're dealing with, and we have to know
• 24:36
  Speaker 6: a little bit about you. And a lot of times
• 24:38
  Speaker 6: folks will come in, and when you talk to them, say, look,
• 24:40
  Speaker 6: you know, where you want to be, is right over here.
• 24:45
  Speaker 6: And you can get really close to that without me.
• 24:49
  Speaker 6: But where you want to be, that gap between where
• 24:53
  Speaker 6: you can get where you want to be is, that's
• 24:56
  Speaker 6: a costly gap to close. So I'm telling you, I
• 24:59
  Speaker 6: think you're better off, my advice is you settle this
• 25:02
  Speaker 6: case on your own. I mean, we do it all
• 25:04
  Speaker 6: the time. I mean, I think that's, certainly I think
• 25:09
  Speaker 6: it's not ethical for a lawyer to to have a
• 25:12
  Speaker 6: client come in who already has an offer and settle
• 25:16
  Speaker 6: the case for what's offered and take a fee. Now,
• 25:18
  Speaker 6: if you significantly increase the amount, I mean, you're not
• 25:22
  Speaker 6: going to maybe exclude that original offer from how you
• 25:25
  Speaker 6: calculate your fee because the risk is always zero. Now,
• 25:30
  Speaker 6: speaking of zero, We'll take a break. We can do that.
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: We can get our break out of the way.
• 25:34
  Speaker 6: We'll talk about the death penalty when we come back.
• 25:35
  Speaker 6: Let's do that.
• 25:36
  Speaker 5: If you'd like to talk to Harvey from the Payton
• 25:39
  Speaker 5: Law Firm, you can give us a call this morning, 304-345-5858, 345-5858.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: You can text 304-935-5008. Online, paytonlawfirm.com, P-E-Y-T-O-N, paytonlawfirm.com.
• 25:42
  Speaker 5: We'll get you. rest of the contact information before we
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: head on out of here today. But for now, let's
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: go ahead and take a break and we'll be back
• 25:54
  Speaker 5: right after this. You're listening to Ask the Lawyer with
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: the Payton Law Firm. Harvey Payton is here. I'm Dale Cooper.
• 25:58
  Speaker 6: This is 580 WCHS, The Voice of Charles.
• 26:00
  Speaker 7: Retirement isn't a finish line. It's a new beginning. But
• 26:03
  Speaker 7: are you really ready? I'm John Burdett with 4th Avenue Financial.
• 26:06
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  Speaker 7: Whether retirement is five years away or right around the corner,
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  Speaker 7: Securities offered through J.B. Cole Financial Incorporated. Member Finn Recipic.
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• 26:32
  Speaker 8: According to Feeding America, over 7 million seniors nationwide were
• 26:36
  Speaker 8: food insecure in 2022. West Virginia is no different. Hi,
• 26:40
  Speaker 8: I'm Jason, President and CEO of Union Mission Ministries. For
• 26:44
  Speaker 8: 113 years, Union Mission has focused on helping people in need.
• 26:48
  Speaker 8: Right now, our senior citizens need our help. That is
• 26:52
  Speaker 8: why Union Mission is partnering with local senior living facilities
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  Speaker 8: to get food delivered directly to those in need. Will
• 26:57
  Speaker 8: you help us reach more seniors? Visit unionmission.com to learn more.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: The seasons are changing and the temperatures are dropping, making
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: now the perfect time to ensure your home is ready
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: for the colder months ahead. Whether it's upgrading your heating system,
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: repairing your roof, adding a generator, or tackling something you've
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: been putting off, a home improvement loan from Members Choice
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• 27:30
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• 27:32
  Speaker 6: This is J.B.
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: Akers, your delegate in the 55th District in Kanawha County.
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: We know how polarizing politics has become. More than ever,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: we need common sense leaders in government who focus on
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: what really matters to you and your family. I built
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: a record on being that kind of person. Whether it's
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: initiatives to protect children or legislation to help local small
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: businesses thrive, I work on what you care about. It's
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: what I care about, too.
• 27:53
  Speaker 6: I'm J.B.
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: Akers, and I will be honored to again have your
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: vote in November and work together to make our local
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: government a positive example of something to be proud of.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: Paid for by J.B. Akers for West Virginia.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Having issues with your home like wet basements, water in
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: your crawl space, bowing or leaning walls, or foundation cracks?
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: You need Foster Construction, your foundation repair experts. Locally owned
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  Speaker 3: and operated, Foster Construction offers free inspections and estimates and
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  Speaker 3: base foundation repair and retaining walls. Call 304-776-6263 and get
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  Speaker 3: started today online at fosterconstructionwv.com. Foster Construction, they'll fix it
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: right the first time.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Now let's check in on traffic from the 580 WCHS studio.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: Good morning.
• 28:45
  Speaker 9: Here's your traffic update. A vehicle crash on West Virginia
• 28:49
  Speaker 9: 25 at 1001 Dunbar Avenue. A disabled vehicle on I-77
• 28:53
  Speaker 9: South at mile marker 99 at Greenbrier Street. In Putnam County,
• 28:57
  Speaker 9: a vehicle crash on West Virginia 25, area 4304 First
• 29:02
  Speaker 9: Avenue and Nitro. And congestion and delays on I-64 East
• 29:06
  Speaker 9: at mile marker 50 at Institute. I'm Chappell in the
• 29:10
  Speaker 9: WCHS Network Traffic Studio.
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: It's 10 minutes now to the top of the hour.
• 29:25
  Speaker 5: You're listening to Ask the Law. You're on 580 WCHS,
• 29:27
  Speaker 5: The Voice of Charleston.
• 29:28
  Speaker 6: I'm Dale Cooper. Thanks for tuning in.
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: On this Thursday morning, Harvey Payton is joining us now
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: in studio. You can still weigh in this morning if
• 29:33
  Speaker 5: you have any comments or questions for the Payton Law Firm.
• 29:36
  Speaker 6: Harvey is here, 304-345-5858, 304-345-5858.
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: 304-345-5858, 304-345-5858 online, paytonlawfirm.com, P-E-Y-T-O-N, paytonlawfirm.com. And you can also
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: text us this morning at 304-935-5008.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: Well, absent any call-ins or texts, I wanted to digress
• 29:53
  Speaker 6: this morning to talk again on TalkLine. The day before
• 29:58
  Speaker 6: yesterday or yesterday, I heard a a state senator from
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: Fayette County, a person whom I don't know, but discussing
• 30:06
  Speaker 6: his intention to introduce in this coming session of the
• 30:10
  Speaker 6: legislature an amendment to our criminal code which would authorize
• 30:17
  Speaker 6: the death penalty, which has now been abolished in West
• 30:21
  Speaker 6: Virginia for almost 70 years, but in the case of
• 30:28
  Speaker 6: a non-fatal assault on a child less than 12 years
• 30:34
  Speaker 6: old by an adult over 18 years old that resulted
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: in injury or damage to the anatomy or sexual organs
• 30:43
  Speaker 6: of the child. And it was quite a discussion. I mean,
• 30:46
  Speaker 6: there was talk about it, and the gentleman went to
• 30:49
  Speaker 6: great lengths to talk about all the safeguards that had
• 30:53
  Speaker 6: been built into it, you know, a second stage for
• 30:57
  Speaker 6: punishment as opposed to being decided at the same time
• 31:01
  Speaker 6: as guilt or innocence and the necessity of an 8-12
• 31:05
  Speaker 6: agreement or an 8-4 agreement by the jurors for the
• 31:08
  Speaker 6: death penalty and an immediate appeal and any number of
• 31:14
  Speaker 6: other so-called safeguards, including an immediate appeal to the Supreme
• 31:23
  Speaker 6: Court of West Virginia, which I became curious, you know,
• 31:31
  Speaker 6: Back in 2008, this issue was presented to the United
• 31:36
  Speaker 6: States Supreme Court in the case of Kennedy v. Louisiana.
• 31:39
  Speaker 6: I'm sure the gentleman knows of that case, or he should,
• 31:43
  Speaker 6: in which our United States Supreme Court said that the
• 31:47
  Speaker 6: imposition of the death penalty for the non-fatal sexual assault
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: of a child resulting in injury that was not intended
• 31:59
  Speaker 6: to cause death violated the Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: and unusual punishment. Now, that's the law. So enacting the
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: statute that the senator from Fayette County, I believe, intends
• 32:19
  Speaker 6: to introduce would simply be a nullity because enforcement would
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: be impossible under the law of the land as it
• 32:29
  Speaker 6: exists today. Now, in truth, this statute is a uniform statute,
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: not an idea that sprang from the heart and mind
• 32:45
  Speaker 6: of this senator. It appears to mirror exactly the statute
• 32:51
  Speaker 6: that was adopted in Mississippi six months ago, which is
• 32:55
  Speaker 6: quite similar to the statutes adopted in Tennessee and Florida
• 33:00
  Speaker 6: and Alabama and a number you know, six essentially southern Oklahoma, Idaho,
• 33:07
  Speaker 6: conservative states, now all of whom already have the death penalty,
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: so they're not confronted with the issue of cost, but
• 33:17
  Speaker 6: it's not an individual crusade for the sanctity of children,
• 33:27
  Speaker 6: although everybody agrees these are egregious and horrendous crimes. but
• 33:32
  Speaker 6: it's a movement by a particular group of believers in
• 33:37
  Speaker 6: the United States that by enacting these statutes, although they're ineffective,
• 33:45
  Speaker 6: that they are going to result in litigation. One of
• 33:47
  Speaker 6: these states is going to convict somebody and sentence them
• 33:51
  Speaker 6: to death under a statute that's constitutionally invalid, and that's
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: going to go to the United States Supreme Court And
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: they believe that the Supreme Court will, applying the evolving
• 34:04
  Speaker 6: standards of decency test, will reverse Kennedy v. Louisiana. So
• 34:11
  Speaker 6: it's actually putting West Virginia in a Petri dish to
• 34:15
  Speaker 6: experiment for an unknown cost. I mean, I presume if
• 34:19
  Speaker 6: you pass the act, you're going to have to, we
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: would have to then undertake what the Division of Corrections
• 34:25
  Speaker 6: says we would need to undertake and spend $ 1 a
• 34:28
  Speaker 6: minimum of $ 20 million to build a facility somewhere, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 6: then to train a staff and maintain a staff prepared to,
• 34:39
  Speaker 6: which may never be used because you're doing it for
• 34:43
  Speaker 6: a statute that's unenforceable unless the Supreme Court reverses it.
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think that'll all come out in the legislature,
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: and I would have my doubts that If this goes
• 34:54
  Speaker 6: through House Judiciary with J.B. Akers as the chairman, I'm
• 34:57
  Speaker 6: sure J.B. acknowledges, as I do, that these are heinous
• 35:01
  Speaker 6: and horrible crimes and perhaps as bad as you can be.
• 35:06
  Speaker 6: But we don't have the death penalty in West Virginia.
• 35:10
  Speaker 6: Our homicide rate hasn't gone up any. And I just
• 35:14
  Speaker 6: don't think we ought to be putting us in a
• 35:17
  Speaker 6: petri dish with other states just to sort of drive
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: a movement around not originating here, which would end up
• 35:26
  Speaker 6: costing us money and time and litigation.
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: This strategy is basically what happened with abortion, too, right?
• 35:33
  Speaker 6: Sure.
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: The states went and seeded model legislation that were really
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: null on the books until the Supreme Court ruled a
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: certain way, and then suddenly those seeded legislations became relevant again.
• 35:44
  Speaker 6: Well, it worked, and it worked. Sure, yeah, absolutely. Roe v.
• 35:48
  Speaker 6: Wade was set aside, keeping in mind that the result
• 35:53
  Speaker 6: of that was in favor of life, not in favor
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: of death. Right.
• 36:01
  Speaker 5: Different set of standard, I guess.
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: It has sort of a different outcome. I mean, and
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: it's hard for me to comprehend, but clearly, I mean,
• 36:11
  Speaker 6: Kennedy versus Louisiana was a difficult case. It was a
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: man who said that his daughter was assaulted by neighbors
• 36:21
  Speaker 6: or other kids, uh, whom he saw right away. His
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: daughter agreed with that. She was eight years old. Daddy
• 36:28
  Speaker 6: didn't do it. Two years later, she said that he
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: did do it. She was horribly injured by the assault. Uh,
• 36:37
  Speaker 6: there was other circumstantial evidence that pointed towards this man
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: and he was tried. And, you know, one of those
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: cases where the, the outcome was so bad, the jury just,
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: they sent him to death. Uh, I think with some
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: question about proof beyond a reasonable doubt, certainly some question
• 36:59
  Speaker 6: whether that would be filed. But that case went to
• 37:01
  Speaker 6: the United States Supreme Court. It was decided 5-4. So
• 37:06
  Speaker 6: that case, obviously a 5-4 decision. The court was completely
• 37:10
  Speaker 6: different then, except three members of the Kennedy Louisiana Court
• 37:19
  Speaker 6: Justice Roberts, Justice Alito, and Justice Thomas are now on
• 37:23
  Speaker 6: this nine-member court, along with Amy Coney Barrett, Brett Kavanaugh,
• 37:29
  Speaker 6: and Neil Gorsuch, who weren't there before. And neither was
• 37:37
  Speaker 6: Jackson Sotomayor. Jackson, Sotomayor, and what's that? Well, I missed.
• 37:44
  Speaker 6: But Robertson, Roberts, Alito, and Thomas, the Senate, they were
• 37:49
  Speaker 6: part of the four. So I guess the bet, the
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: gamble is, oh, we have a call? One minute. Oh,
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: we have one minute. I'm sorry. Okay, so. Anyway, that's
• 38:00
  Speaker 6: something to think about and look at if this actually
• 38:03
  Speaker 6: is going to be used to get some traction. I
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: think the problem is we haven't had it handled. Of course,
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: crime should be committed. It's a battle that's using the answers.
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: I think we've decided that.