Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 420 - Lee Harvey Oswald Was Not Clairvoyant

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JFK ASSASSINATION - EP. 420 - Lee Harvey Oswald Was Not Clairvoyant · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: One more fire Late afternoon heat down in Dealey Plaza,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: a young man holds a long paper sack, set his
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: curtain rods for the window frame while the heavy Sedans
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: pull back. Up on the sixth floor of the book depository,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the truth gets tucked away. Cuban exiles down in the
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Keys waiting for their pay. Welcome to the Lone Gun
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Man podcast tonight. Where the official line ain't right.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Triple B and.
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: Joe reading line by line.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Through the black ink on the page. Looking past the
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: grassy knoll. Oswald walking down the Dallas street, handcuffed to
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: a detective sleeve. Jack Ruby steps from the crowded press
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: with a trick of a suit jacket sleeve. Redacted documents
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: stacked on the desk, thick black lines on every name.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: They call it an open and shut case while they
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: play the same old game. Is it a single shot
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: from behind? Or a rifle behind the fence?
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Take a ride with Triple.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: B and Joby.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: Nothing here makes any sense.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Lone Gun Man podcast.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, and welcome to the Lone Gunman podcast tonight. It's
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: your boy, the Triple B, and Joe B here with
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: you for another exciting edition of the Lone Gunman podcast.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: Welcome in, everybody. We see you're here. We appreciate the
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: hell out of you. But it is Friday night where
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: we don't F around, and we get right into it.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yes. Although I will give Tiny here credit. She was
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: gold medal twice in a row, two straight weeks ago.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So she got a special prize. Do you know what
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: that is, Rob?
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: A dick pic.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: No. Allegedly. Some Italy pics that I have not published yet.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Oh, well, I was close.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: You're close. I was close. Hey, man.
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Those Roman bathhouse pics.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: You know. Hey, man, I'm in a... Five-year relationship as
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: of yesterday. Happy anniversary to my girlfriend. And went out
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: for a nice dinner. How anyone could put up with
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: me for five years is mind-boggling.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how she does it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Are you going to make it.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: To five years?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: I don't have to deal with you every day.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: I know. I'm just joking. But we have a good
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: show for you tonight. And it kind of touches on,
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: before I hand it to you, Rob, to do the intro.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: An episode we did last November, a year ago to
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: the month. One of my favorite episodes. And that was
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: recently touched upon. if you saw the graphic, by Fred
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Litwin involving the possibility of a fracas and the VT
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: letter before August 9th, right? The VT letter was written
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: August 1st. So we're going to go over all that.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: We're going to get into all that good stuff. I
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: know you just made an appearance on Fred's show, what,
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: a month ago-ish? Yes. Yeah, and let me speak for
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Rob on this one. Rob does not guest if he
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: does not like you. And Fred Litwin, listen, he's a
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: good guy. Not in the David Ferry sense, but.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: And of course, he gave us that gold mine of
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: a clip 10 minutes in the last time we had
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: him on. But he does bring receipts with him. And
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: we're going to be going through his article and some
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of the documents he provided, which might even give us
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: more context on previous fractalses. Is that a good setup, Rob?
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Not really.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: Not really.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: But I'll try to do better.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah.
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: You can.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Here we go. Thanks a lot. All right.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: All right. You go, sir. So I saw a video
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: pop up on YouTube from Fred's channel on the Trail
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: of Delusion. The link is in the description of this
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: here video. Make sure you go give it a watch
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: when we're done here. Also, there's a link to Fred's
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: blog post about this where he posts the documents. And
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: this is not a video refutable by any sense. I
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: just think that it's a third option to think about
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: because there are things wrong with our theory we're going
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: to be presenting here tonight. Not much. But there may
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: be something you can pick apart in it. There are
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: some things we're going to pick apart in Fred's assertion,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: scenario of what happened regarding the VT Lee letter. And
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: we're going to pick apart Jim DiEugenio's assertion of what
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: he says allegedly happened with the VT Lee letter that
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: was written on August the 1st, postmarked on the 4th.
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: And as you know, the fracas didn't happen until the 9th. Okay,
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: hence the question, was Lee Harvey Oswald clairvoyant in knowing
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: that this incident was going to take place, and he
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: wrote about it before it happened? Okay, so let me
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: share my screen here, Yosef. Okay, do that.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: And of course, just in case, just to set the table,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: clairvoyant means a person who claims to have a supernatural
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: ability to perceive events in the future or beyond normal
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: sensory contact.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, Joe had no idea what clairvoyant meant.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: No, I just wanted to confirm. Yeah, you know, when
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: you get on a podcast live and you can't edit,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: you want to cross your teeth and dot your I's.
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: So when we talked about this the other day and
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: I said clairvoyant, you didn't say, what's clairvoyant?
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I didn't say that. No, because I had an idea
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: of what it meant, but I wanted to get the
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: exact definition for the concept.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Allegedly.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Allegedly.
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Anyway, here we go. This is from Fred's blog post.
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: All right. And here is, we're going to set up
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: the Dugenio explanation for this. Okay. So, On August 9th,
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: this comes straight out of his book, Destiny Betrayed. On
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: August 9th, Bernier and two cohorts angrily confronted Oswald while
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: he was acting pro-Castro. So right there, DiEugenio is already
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: setting it up that it's all an act, right? He
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: was acting like he was pro-Castro. This is when he
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: was passing out his fair play for Cuba literature on
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Canal Street. This created a minor fracas. and arrests were
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: made for disturbing the peace. The arresting officer, Lieutenant Francis Martello,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: described it as saying that Oswald seemed to have set
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: them up, so to speak, to create an incident, but
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: when the incident occurred, he seemed absolutely peaceful and gentle.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: The idea this incident was set up is fortified, Joe, fortified, strengthened.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: Fortified.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: In case you didn't know what that word meant.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: By the fact that Oswald.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: Thanks a lot.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: Describe the incident to the national office of the FPCC
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: on August the 4th. Now, DiEugenio gets that fact wrong.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: He wrote the letter on the 1st. He sent it
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: on the 4th. It was postmarked on the 4th. Five
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: days before it happened. In this letter, he described being
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: attacked by Cuban exiles in the street and then being
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: approached by the police. He then added the incident robbed me.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: of what support I had, leaving me all alone. Further
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: evidence it was staged, managed, is that when he was booked,
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: Oswald turned over the out-of-print Corliss Lamont pamphlet from 1961.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: In other words, the evidence more than suggests that Oswald
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: was acting out a scene he had written five days
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: in advance with props furnished to him by either Bannister
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: or Phillips. All right. Here we go.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Now....
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Let us digest that just for a second. I mean,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: this is the quintessential conspiracy theory of the street fracas. Right, Joe?
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: Where DiEugenio takes into no consideration... that Oswald is actually pro-Castro.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: That it has to be a staged event because he
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: wrote about it in advance. And that he had on
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: him literature that had to be furnished to him by
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: Bannister or David Attlee Phillips. Okay. Now, let's get back
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: here to the letter. This is the handwritten version. We're
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: going to go through the typed one real quick just
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: to set the stage for you guys.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, but before you continue, I'm going to interrupt. I
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: believe there were two fracases. What's the plural of fracas?
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: And I think I just tried to pronounce it. It
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: is a weird word. Fracases. I don't know if that's
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: the word.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: Fracases.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Fracases. Fracases.
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: There you go.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, Toops. How's it going? And yes.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: So here's the letter in question. Again, the date is
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: right up at the top. August the 1st. Dear Mr. Lee,
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: that's VT Lee of the Fair Play for Cuba committee
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: in New York. In regards to my efforts to start
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: a branch, FPCC, in New Orleans, I rented an office
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: as I planned and was promptly closed three days later
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: for some obscure reasons by the renters. They said something
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: about remodeling, etc. I'm sure you understand. After that, I
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: worked out of a post office box, and by using
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: street demonstrations, plural, and some circular work, have sustained a
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: great deal of interest, but no new members. Through the
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: efforts of some, plural, Cuban exile, gusanos, which is the
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: Spanish word for worms, plural, A street demonstration... Pluracy. Jesus Christ.
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: You're back in America, Joe. We are not in Italy anymore.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: Okay. Sorry.
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: You're Latinizing everything. A street demonstration was attacked and we
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: were officially cautioned by the police. This incident robbed me
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: of what support I had, leaving me alone. Note that
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: Oswald does not say here that he was arrested by
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: the police. Okay? So one would think that that's a big,
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: a mighty big detail to leave out if you were
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: going to stage an altercation. Right, Joe?
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: 100%. Yes.
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is downplaying the incident is what it
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: sounds like to me. Instead of trying to build up one,
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: you know. Like, he got arrested for the cause, Mr. Lee. So, hey,
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: you really need to back me. I'm out here getting
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: arrested for this shit. You know what I mean?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Getting kicked out of my office, working out of a P.O. box. Yep. 100%.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: And like you pointed out, I think the pleurisy... Oh,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: my God.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: Say pleurisy one more goddamn time.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: All right, I'll stop. I think it's really significant here
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: because he... alludes here, and again, we know Oswald didn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: always tell the truth, let's be honest about that, talked
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: about numerous demonstrations before August.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll get to some of them, I promise. Nevertheless,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: thousands of circulars were distributed in many, many pamphlets which
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: your office supplied. We also managed... To picket the fleet
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: when it came in. And I was surprised. At the
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: number of officers. Who were interested in our literature. Now.
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: This is important. Because. Of Fred's theory.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: So.
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Fred's theory has to do. With the June incident. Or
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: multiple June. Incidences.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Of.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Oswald handing out leaflets, allegedly to the sailors. They were
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: getting off the USS Wasp. And then again at something else.
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: And we'll get there. He pissed off some other Cuban exile.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I don't know who this guy was, but we'll get there. So, again,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: he's mentioning this. He's mentioning two separate occasions here. Right?
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: He's mentioning... the dock workers, right? Or he's mentioning leafleting
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: at the docks. But he's also mentioning a street fracas
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: by some worms, right? And they were officially cautioned by police.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: He doesn't say he got arrested. Okay? So to me,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: these are two separate things that Oswald is alluding to here.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: which is what tricked my antenna up. Right.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Incidents. Yes.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I continue to receive through my post office box inquiries
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: and questions with our shelter. Okay. Now I'm not even
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: going to read that quote from chokeholds. Um, so in 1963,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: Joe did, is this something that you have? Uh, You
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: want to go ahead with it?
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: You can go ahead with it. I could skip it
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: over if you'd like. My PowerPoint might mug yours, but
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: in terms of.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I doubt it.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: In terms of sizing, that's what she said. Size does matter.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, go ahead, sir. All right. So on June 29th,
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: this guy....
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: Rafael Aznares wrote the FBI, specifically Hoover, about some trouble
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: that he had on Canal Street. Again, not the docks.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: On Canal Street. And this is all he says. The writer,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: Rafael Aznares, Cuban refugee, former chief accountant of Lykes Brothers, uh,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: steamship company at Havana until the office was closed in 1960. Actually, uh,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: working for the same company in New Orleans attached here
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: to please find a pamphlet given to me by a
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: young American that was at canal street with a big advise.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: This is hand off Cuba, hand off of Cuba.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: You have, It's written in Cuban, if that makes any sense.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: Handoff of Cuba, blah, blah, blah. I argued with him
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: and called him a communist, but you, they deny belonging
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: to the party. Okay? So basically, he tells of something.
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: This guy is handing out a pamphlet wearing a placard
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: that says Handoff Cuba. I called him a communist and
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: he said, actually, I'm not a communist. Okay? Now, that's
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: all he says about Oswald in this entire letter that
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: we're not going to read the rest of. He goes
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: on this gigantic diatribe about American communist Fidel Castro. He
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: even mentions Abraham Lincoln in here about some, for some
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: fucking reason. Okay. And he, you know, he signs his
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: name down here, right? And the pamphlet he includes is
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the truth about Cuba is in Cuba. So this is,
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: I guess what Oswald or somebody, uh, I mean, this
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: is fair play for Cuba committee literature, was handing out.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Right. And this was attached to the June letter to Hoover, right? Yes.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: So he allegedly and probably did receive this in person
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and kept it and was so disturbed he wrote Hoover
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he was more upset about the incident, talking about
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: his kids and his country and all this other stuff.
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: He literally mentions the Oswald thing in one line of
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: the entire letter.
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: But after the assassination on November 23rd, he wrote Hoover again,
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: same guy in the month of June. I wrote you
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: in connection with the trouble I had in canal street
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: with a communist was making propaganda in favor of Castro
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: attached here to please find the photo of the same communist.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: This man was making an active work for the communist
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: party and, but his main activity was a favor of
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: Fidel Castro. And he enclosed a picture of Oswald from
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: the newspaper. okay so the day after the assassination he
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: sends this letter to hoover with a picture of oswald
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: from the paper and said this is the guy that
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: you know handed me a leaflet right okay that's the
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: handwritten version There's the newspaper clipping he sent of Oswald saying,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: this is the guy that gave me the pamphlet.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: This is the letter from Hoover back to him. I mean,
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: it's a form letter. Don't get it twisted. Dear Mr. Esneras,
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: your letter of November 23rd with enclosure has been received.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: It was indeed thoughtful of you to bring your observations
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: and information to the attention of this bureau. Sincerely yours,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: stamped J. Edgar Hoover, typed J. Edgar Hoover, director.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: Right, and just to clarify here, this, what's this guy's name?
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: I don't want to mispronounce his name.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: Rafael Esneres.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Yes, he then wrote Hoover again on November 23rd, which
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: would have been, of course, the day after the assassination,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: and then they wrote... I'm trying not to say that
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: word again. Back to him on the 27th saying, thank you.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: It's kind of like a standard, maybe like AI response
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: these days or one you'd receive from an office. It
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: was thoughtful of you to bring these observations to the
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: attention of the Bureau. Sincerely yours, Jagahova.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we call that a hashtag GFY response.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Right. Thanks a lot, bro. We didn't know this.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Good job, guys. All right, now, getting into this, this
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: is an interesting one, okay? But it has no bearing
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: at all about what we're talking about because if you
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: look in the top right corner here, this was actually
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: sent from Dallas, Texas. And it's not dated, which is
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: a problem. But it's likely....
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: It's not on the screen here. Oh.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: Sorry. Here you go. Top right-hand corner from Dallas, Texas.
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: It's not dated. It's another letter to VT Lee. It's
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: likely before he goes to New Orleans for the summer. Likely.
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: Not after he gets back from Mexico. But who knows?
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Because it's not dated. But So this letter has no
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: bearing at all whatsoever on this. I do not like
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: to ask for something for nothing, but I am unemployed.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Since I am unemployed, I stood yesterday for the first
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: time in my life with a placard around my neck
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: passing out Fair Play for Cuba pamphlets. I only had
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: 15 or so. In 40 minutes, they were all gone.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: I was cursed as well as praised by some. My
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: homemade placard said, Hands Off Cuba, Viva Fidel. I now
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: ask for 40 or 50 more of the fine basic
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: pamphlets dash 14. Sincerely, Lee Harvey Oswald. Again, this is
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: likely before he goes to New Orleans for the summer
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: because he said, for the first time ever in my life,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: I stood on the corner with a placard and handed
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: pamphlets out. So this is likely sometime in Dallas in
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: January or February 1963. Be my guest. Yeah.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And Rob, just to stop you really quickly, I want
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: to say hi to Doug because there has been a
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: lot of talk in the chat about my pronunciation of
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: this word that I cannot repeat. But Doug will know
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: over anyone that this is a reference to Uncle Junior
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: and the Sopranos when he talks about pleurisy as in
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: multiple of my captains have their mothers in this nursing home.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So that's what I was alluding to. I understand that's
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: not the right word. But I'm sure Doug got it.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Being as big Sopranos fan as he is.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: All right. Sorry. Had to get it out of the way.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: It was a big, big topic in the chat here.
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: Okay. So this Aznares dude, they tried to find him
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: for the ARRB. They couldn't find him.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Blah, blah, blah. Now, there was something else.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Where is it?
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Here it is. Okay. So if we go down here,
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: this is a letter or memorandum, memorandi, if you will,
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: from June 16th of 1963.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Peaches, comment of the night, by the way. Sorry, Rob.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: I keep interrupting.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Damn you, Ann! You can shove those regime change specialists
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: up your org chart. How about that?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Up your pleurisy asses. Sorry, I said it again.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: Again, note to date here.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: June 16th.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: This is before Aznares. The Aznares incident.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Uh....
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: From the Board of Commissioners of the Port of New Orleans,
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: an agency of the state of Louisiana. And again, this
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: is not the police, not anything legal, right? But I
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: guess the dock people at the Port of New Orleans
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: have their own security force, right? They probably would, right?
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: So this is what we're talking about here. Basically, a
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: rent-a-cop security guard, okay? Distribution of propaganda literature. This is
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: June 16th. Remember, while working a special assignment at Dunning
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Street Wharf, I was approached by a USS Navy officer
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: from the USS Wasp who stated that he saw a
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: white male adult subject handing out enclosed pamphlets to persons
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: waiting or visiting the Wasp. birthed at Domain Street Wharf.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: I immediately looked for this subject and found him distributing
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: those pamphlets and asked him if he had received permission
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: from the dock board to issue those papers. He said
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: he thought, as an American citizen, he did not need
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: anyone's permission to do anything. Mother effer. I ordered this
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: man off our property and told him he would have
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: to refrain from issuing anything on dock board property without
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: their express consent.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Okay. Okay.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Now, let's go back and read the August 1st letter
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: one more time.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, let's do that, because I think you found something interesting,
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: a little tidbit in there that you were telling me
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: about earlier.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: So again, what exactly does he say in this August
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: 1st letter? He doesn't say that he was kicked off
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: the dock by a rent-a-cop. He doesn't say He was
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: approached by one pissed-off Cuban exile, right, that didn't do
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: anything except call him a communist and leave. Okay? What
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: he says here is, through the efforts of some, plural, again, plural,
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Cuban exile gusanos, plural, a street demonstration, not at the dock,
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: a street demonstration was attacked, and we were officially... cautioned
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: by police. Now, he wasn't cautioned by the police. He
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: was arrested. Okay? This incident robbed me of what support
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: I had, leaving me all alone. Alright? Now, what if, Joe,
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: what if there is a third possibility to the answer
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: of this riddle Of the August the first letter. Something funny?
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: I'm just trying not to say that word. Because it's
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: been up in the chat. And like every comment. But yes.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: The possibility of a third practice. Is that what you're saying? Yep.
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: Go ahead.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: I hand it over to you. Wait.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: No. You didn't finish your thought.
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: I did. You weren't listening.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I was laughing at the comments. Um. Yeah, I mean, listen,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: you know, I think Jim DiEugenio's take on this is
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: silly in terms of it was planned out, Oswald planned
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: this out before, whatever. It's silly, and I think, don't
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: kill us here, guys, Fred and Rob and I might
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: land on the Fred side of this argument. which was
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: there was multiple fracases, although we might disagree on when
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: those fracases happened.
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not saying I agree that there was multiple fracases.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: I don't see the Rafael Aznaros incident as a fracas,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: and I don't see a rent a cop telling him
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: he can't hand the shit out anymore and get out
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: of there. A fracas. All right. These are incidences, right?
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: Fracas is a fight, right? Right.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: A scuffle.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: Something worthy of being arrested for, or at least taken
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: to jail, something like that. Right. Right. And possibly, when
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: Lee Oswald says here, this incident robbed me of what
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: support I had, leaving me alone, because when he says,
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: through the efforts of some Cuban exile gusanos, a street
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: demonstration was attacked, and we were officially cautioned by police,
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: indicating a pleurisy of people. Sorry.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, it does.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: But this incident robbed me of what support I had,
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: meaning maybe he had a buddy with him, right? Who was,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: who he had talked into joining the cause. But then
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: after a fracas, the guy was like, Hey man, screw you.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: You're on your own buddy.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: F this. I'm done.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: This ain't working. All right. So that's where we're at. Um, Joe,
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I'm going to hand it over to you, and we're
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: going to go through some of this stuff a little deeper.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, so.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: Because for our theory, and we'll tell you this, for
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: our theory to be legitimized, legitimate, we have to put
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Oswald in New Orleans... A little earlier than he has
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: been put there in the past. And again, for those
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: who watched last November's miraculous episode where I think we
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: made a good case that he was, we're going to
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: make it again this evening because it's important. Because it's
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: not part of the official record. But it's something that
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: you need to take into consideration when you're thinking about
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: how all this stuff lines up. So, go ahead, John.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I just want to say this about Fred,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and we disagree about a lot of things, a lot
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: of interpretations of the documents, but you can't say Fred
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: doesn't bring the receipts, right?
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: And look, I'm not saying that the DiEugenio explanation is
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: anything less than what a lot of conspiracy theorists think,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: because a lot of them think that everything about Oswald
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: is fake, was set up, you know, that he was
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: in on it, you know, all this stuff, because that's
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: the overarching conspiracy theory. If you think Oswald is totally innocent, right?
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: This had to be a setup. This had to be
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: a staged event, right? So I'm not saying D Eugenio
• 32:46
  Speaker 3: is far off of his base as well. It's just
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: his scenario is, doesn't really have any backing documentation it's
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: all supposition with no meat on the bone it's the
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: conspiracy theory it lit in its literal form on his
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: pages you know it's just his interpretation of the august
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: first letter and it's looking at it through the lens
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: of a diehard conspiracy theorist who thinks that Oswald was
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: a dupe and set up by the CIA or the
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: FBI or whoever else.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. The comments are just too good tonight.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: You can get out of here and go hang out
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: in the comments section if you want.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: No, I'm okay. But.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: No, it's... So, Rob, should I... since you showed a
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: lot of what, uh, Fred's documents on his site on
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: the trail, you just skip through them. Yeah. Uh, but
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: do you want me to start with a recap of
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: our Walker theory first? Cause I believe you shared a,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: not really.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: Let me just, the Walker theory doesn't really have anything
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: to do with this.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: No, we're talking about the timeline here. Um, And let
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: me just get my tabs in order here. And let
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: me mog your PowerPoint. Let's see. Okay, let me go
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: through some of the stuff. You can put this up, Rob.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: So this is what Rob read earlier, the letter in
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: June from Rafael Arnaz. Costia, Costano, whatever. Um, he already
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: read it. I'm not going to be redundant here. Um,
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: then you have, and, and Rob, this reminds me a
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: lot of like the, uh, the DRE sending their little
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: packet to Joe and Edie's on the night of the
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: 22nd in terms of you have another Cuban exile coming
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: out the day after that, of course. Um, writing Hoover again, right? He,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: of course, writes him in June, then he writes him
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: in November. Um, we already read most of this. Um,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: they get their standard response on the 27th, and this
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: is another document, it's actually part of the Warren Commission,
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: Commission document, Exhibit 1370, Patrolman Girod Ray.
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: We already went through this.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Okay. Um, And then, did you go through this too?
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: I did not.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Okay. And I should add that Esnarez's affair was included
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: in David Kaiser's 2008 book, The Road to Dallas. A
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: young American who gave Esnarez the pamphlet must surely have
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: been Lee Harvey Oswald, whose next sighting was also on
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Canal Street. Esnarez himself was apparently politically active and knowledgeable
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: and liked Laika's Bros, a steamship company, which you talked
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: about earlier, with Latin American interest in Castro had Hurt,
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: was the kind of business that supported Inca. The letter
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: seemed designed to interest Hoover in the communist menace posed
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: by the New Orleans FPCC. It raises at least two
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: difficult questions. First, despite the FBI's great interest in the FPCC,
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: the file on which it was placed shows no evidence
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: of any follow-up. So, maybe they didn't really take this
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: that serious. Because, again, it would kind of further their
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: case if they did take it seriously.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: I don't think they were more worried about what the
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: anti-Castro Cuban.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Second, since Aznares had seen Oswald on Canal Street and
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: had taken the trouble to write to Hoover about his leafleting,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: one might expect that the other anti-Castro activists in New
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Orleans would have heard about him or seen him as well.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: But Brignier, of the DRE, whose store was not far away,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: claimed later that he had not heard of Oswald before
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: late July. So again, another kind of contradiction. Even though
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: several years later, he mentioned having discussed Oswald with Aznarez
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: in a letter to Hoover of his own. And again,
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: this is a letter, we're fast-forwarding a little bit, to
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: a letter from Carlos Enterprises. Can you do that better
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: than I can? I think so.
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: Carlos Enterprises. Can you not hear me? Hello?
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Robert?
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Can you hear me? Can you hear me?
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can't hear you, but I was just going
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: for your great accent there.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Can you hear me now?
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So this is in 1967. This is Bernier writing to, again, J.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Edgar Hoover. And you might see a pattern here in
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: terms of Exiles writing to Hoover. Sirs, as you have
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to know, again, we're reading Cuban here, I am the
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: same person's... Rob, can you unmute yourself? Because I can't
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: hear you, but... You could do a much better accent
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: of this than I can. I am the same person
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: who was arrested in New Orleans on August 9th, 1963
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: with Lee Harvey Oswald and the same who debated him
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: on the radio debate. The reason of this letter is
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: to let you know of an amazing thing that is
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: going on in the city. The district attorney, Mr. Jim Gavison.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: Can you hear me, Joe?
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Is carrying on an investigation in regard to the connections
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: of Lee Harvey Oswald in the city Or if Oswald
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: was in contact with some anti-communist people in New Orleans
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: when I'm writing you this letter I am just returned
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: from a lie detector test, which was offered to me
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: by Mr. Garrison. Some of the general ideas of Mr.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: Garrison are... That's... Are this... Of course... Oswald was brought
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: to New Orleans by Mr. Riley from the Riley Coffee Company.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: And coordinating to Mr. Garrison, this man, Mr. Riley, is
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: an anti-communist conservative. Oswald was not a communist, but an anti-communist,
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: and that he carried on the assassination. Again, this is
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: bringing your writing, not mine. Horrible reading. They are trying
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: to tie facts and issues that are indisposable to be tied. Impossible,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. Showing context of Oswalt with Cuban refugees.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: Joe, can you hear me?
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Okay, well, we definitely know he definitely had some. This
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: is also from Mr. Litwin's article. Brigham closed with this,
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: his letter to Hoover, a five-page memo he wrote to
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: Garrison Reilly. and briefly mentioned Esnarez. Information supplied by Mr.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Rafael Esnarez in New Orleans, Louisiana. This man had referred
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: to me that he saw Lee Harvey Oswald working at
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: the bookstore that is in Canal Street near Royal Street.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Which is interesting. I'm not really exactly sure. But, uh, Brunier...
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: gives these recommendations to Garrison to question Aznorez. Fernando Fernandez,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Barry Noss, alias El Chinito, Donald Savery, Quaker, member of
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: the New Orleans Council for Peaceful Alternatives, Bruce Walzer, chairman
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: of the New Orleans Council for Oh, I think we
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: might have lost Rob.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm not going crazy. Y'all can hear me.
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: It's just Joe can't hear me.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: For the New Orleans Council for Peaceful Alternatives. Sorry about that, folks.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: I don't know what in the sand is going on.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: For Dr. Leonard.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Are you there in the comments section? Are you back?
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Rayson. Five, Dr. Forrest E. Violette. C, Mr. Rafael Asenadas. Right?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: We just went over his document. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Fouillard.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: And seven, Mr.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Roof.
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Who we have talked about.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: On the show before, and that was the lady, Ruth.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: Payne, kind of enlisted, if you will, to.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: Keep an eye on Rowena when she was in New Orleans.
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: Let's see if I can figure out how to do this.
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: Not very common name, not well-known name in the assassination research,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: but definitely interesting. especially if you get into the Ruth
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Payne angle. And Fred states, I have not seen any
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: evidence that Garrison talked to as Norris. You're muted still?
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Sorry, folks. We'll figure this out here in a second.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: I see you on my phone. I don't see you
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: on my laptop.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: Oh, man.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: This is live pod, ladies and gentlemen. Um.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Come on, man.
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: This thing's got a brain of its own. Yeah. There's
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: some bugs crawling around in here, that's for sure.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: I can see Rob cursing in the background on my phone. Okay.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: But I cannot hear him.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: Alright.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Wrong one.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: There's the right one. Alright.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: Um....
• 43:51
  Speaker 3: Lee Harvey Oswald was not clairvoyant. So, in order to
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: prove or at least put forth our theory that there
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: is a third option here to consider.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: We must go back back in.
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: Time to early April when Lee Harvey Oswald is fired
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: from Jagger's Child Stovall. Now, There is some consternation and
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: some differences put out there about his actual last day
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: of work. A lot of people put this out there.
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: This is from John Armstrong. He's saying Saturday, April 6th
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: was Lee Harvey Oswald's last day of work at Jagger's
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Child Stovall. The same day a flight plan was filed
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: from New Orleans to Garland with the Federal Aviation Committee. Now,
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: this is not correct either. That was filed on the 8th. Right.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: The flight plan listed the captain of the airplane as
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: David Ferry and three passengers as Diaz, Lambert, allegedly an
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: alias used by Shaw and Heidel, an alias used by
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: both Harvey and Lee. But this is basically we're trying
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: to put the dates back here. So in his book, Lee,
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: Robert Oswald says Lee was working full time. Monday through
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: Friday until April 6th, which is a Saturday. So during
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: the first couple weeks he had the rifle, his practice
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: was necessarily limited chiefly to weekends. On April 7th, the
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: day after he was fired, so he's saying that Oswald
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: was fired on a Saturday, allegedly. He went out to
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: General Walker's house with the intention of shooting him. Since
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: he was no longer working, he may have well spent
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: some time the 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th practicing
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: before he went out for the second time on the
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: 10th and actually fired through a window at Walker. But
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: he was still not absolutely familiar with the weapon.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: April 7th is my birthday, which is why he says
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: he remembers the date Lee took his newly purchased rifle
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: out to the home of General Edward Walker with the
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: intention of shooting him. Now, Again, I don't know how
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: Robert Oswald allegedly knows this because he wasn't in Lee's
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: life at all after they all met at Robert's house
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: for Thanksgiving in 1962. They really had no contact.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Right. And Rob, can you hear me?
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, don't even start.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: Okay, because Tiny says reboot myself and I did. But we...
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: I thought you were frozen, then I was frozen, and
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: who knows.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Apparently they could hear me, but you couldn't hear me.
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: I could not hear you. Again, live potting, I'm sorry.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Just wanted to make sure you could hear me. Continue, sir.
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: April 10th is the birthday of my son, Robert Edward
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Lee Oswald. On April 10th, Lee again went out to
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: General Walker's home, stood there in the darkness, and fired
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: through a glass window at the General. And this is
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: coming from Robert Oswald, and this is He's basically tying
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: these dates, you know, as a memory post for Oswald's actions,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: alleged actions. What's up, Seth?
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: What up?
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: So, on April 6th, Oswald is fired, allegedly, according to
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: the testimony of Marguerite, his mother, to the Warren Commission.
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: And how she knows, I don't know. Because, again, she
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: wasn't in his life in 1963. Jagger's child, Stovall, photo
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: department manager, indicates that April 6th was Oswald's last day.
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: That data, however, defies logic as Saturday work is overtime.
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: And by that point in time, Oswald's work was viewed
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: as lousy and Jagger's was not likely to pay him
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: overtime to do virtually nothing correct on his last day
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: of work. which I agree with. Either way, the end
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: of the job coincides with the alleged Walker prep, and
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: within less than three weeks, Oswald was in New Orleans.
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Dennis Osteen would testify. He mentioned the last day he
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: was at Jagger's Child Stovall. I asked him what he
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: was going to do, where he would go to work,
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: and he said he didn't know. He liked the type
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: of work at the company and said he would like
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: to stay with this type of work, and he would
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: look around, and if he didn't find anything else, he
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: could always go back To Russia and sort of laughed
• 48:41
  Speaker 3: about it.
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: So, April 6th, time unstated, presumably in the evening, on
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: the date of his termination, Lee Oswald was given an
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: invitation to visit Dennis Osteen and his family. Osteen, because
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: of his abilities with the Russian language, was the closest
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: thing to a friend Oswald had at Jagger's. Except for
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: one other guy we'll talk about here in a second.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: As far as this written invitation to Oswald, none whatsoever
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: was the response, which is typical Oswald. Now this was
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: Oswald's Jagger Child Stovall buddy, John Cesar Grossi, a.k.a. Jack
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Leslie Bowen.
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: Right. A skafooza in the highest regard.
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, as you can see here from his rap sheet,
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: he's a career criminal. And if you don't think this
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: is his name, it's actually... Where is it over here? Yeah,
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: here it is. Jack Leslie Bowen. One of his AKAs.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: Sorry.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Right here. Right here. Now, he had many aliases. Jack Caesar,
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: John Caesar. Many, many others. And he ended up on
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: the 10 most wanted list of the FBI in 1964.
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: So this guy was a skafooza of the highest order, right?
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. 100%.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: And likely, who showed Oswald how to forge documents, forge
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: ID cards, things like that.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: Because this guy was a pro. Right.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: Or maybe even create aliases as well, right?
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, possibly.
• 50:39
  Speaker 2: Possibly. Throwing it out there.
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: April 5th, again, allegedly, Oswald's last day at Jaguars Child Stovall,
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: a Friday.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: That's the Friday, right?
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: Time unstated, Lee Oswald puts the date, 5-4-63, on a
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: print photo from the backyard. That date is how the
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Russians write it. They write it the day, the month,
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: and the year. instead of the way we do it,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: which is the month, the day, the year. So April 5th,
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: the photo, along with the English-Russian phonograph records loaned to
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: Oswald by DeMoren Shield, was mailed to DeMoren Shield's address
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: shortly before he left the United States for Haiti. The
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: package was stored, according to DeMoren Shield, and discovered in 1967.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: This particular backyard photo had the notation in Russian that said,
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Ha ha ha, hunter of fascists. And from an examination
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: of the handwriting compared to other samples, it is likely
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: that Marina wrote the caption. Right?
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: I think so. Yes. Yeah. I think she was making
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: fun of Lee. She was trolling him in a sense. Yeah. Yeah.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: It is also to be recalled at occasional points through
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: this narrative that Marina was first taken to the Dallas
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: police station. She denied ever seeing Oswald's rifle. Despite the
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: fact that she had photographed it... This created a serious
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: catch-22 for the Warren Commission as they had Marina admitting
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: to important evidence against her husband with respect to a
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: gun that she never saw, allegedly. This is from Walt
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: Brown's Master Analytic Chronology.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, allegedly in big capital letters here.
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Now, here's why me and Joe... think that his
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: last day at Jagger's Charles Stovall was the fifth because
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: according to the horse's mouth, that is Lee Harvey Oswald himself, right?
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: On his application on the 12th, which would have been
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: that Friday, two days after the Walker shooting.
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: Four days after the alleged manifest, right?
• 53:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if you go straight down under the box on
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: the right, Under where it says his profession, photographer. The
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: last day I worked, 4-5-63. And it says I was
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: laid off by somebody, head of photography and art department,
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: due to lack of work.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: Graves, I think his name was.
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: And again, if there was a lack of work, he
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: wouldn't have been working overtime on Saturday.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: Especially if they were going to fire him.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: So we think based on all the available evidence to
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: make sense that Oswald's last day at Jagged Child Stovall
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: was on the 5th.
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: Right. We think it's possible.
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: And, and in our, uh, episode we did last year, again,
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: one of my favorites, we kind of did a thought
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: experiment where we said, you know, Marie, You come home
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: to your wife. You tell her you got fired. A
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: big fight ensues. I believe they're... What were they living in?
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: Neely Street then? Yeah.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right?
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: A big fight ensues. And maybe he goes to New Orleans.
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: And as we're going to recap here, we have some
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: INS documents from the church committee.
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: We'll get there.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that corroborate that. So, again, we're talking about differentiating documents,
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: but they're both document-based, right, in terms of Fred and Arthur.
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: Let's just stick with where we're at here, Dan. Okay, okay.
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: All right. Texas Employment Commission. Now, this thing under his
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: appointment receipt here, is based on Dallas T1, which is
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: likely Harry Holmes, who they were watching his mail, basically. Right, right.
• 55:16
  Speaker 3: And they're basically giving all the correspondence dates between Oswald
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: and the Texas Employment Commission different dates. And Joe's going
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: to get more into the Cunningham and the other exhibits
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: here in a little bit. So I'm going to skip
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: that for now. So was Oswald in New Orleans in
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: early April 1963? And was there another incident in New
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: Orleans in April of 1963? This is from Reasonable Doubt
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: by the book Reasonable Doubt by Henry Hurt. And it's
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: a story from Robert Easterling. He claims at the Havana
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: bar that he first encountered Oswald during the spring, which
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: would be April, or summer of 63. Now this is
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: him looking back 20 or 30 years, so spring or
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: summer of 63, whatever. While he's not sure of the date,
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Easterling insists that he witnessed an incident that involving Oswald
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: at the Havana bar that is unrecorded in standard accounts
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: of Oswald's New Orleans activities. Easterling claims he came upon
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: a sidewalk fracas on Decatur Street, near the doorway to
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: the Havana bar, of course owned by Ores Pena. Several
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: Cubans were kicking the shit and stomping a young man's
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: Easterling came to know as Oswald, out on the sidewalk.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: This constitutes, Joe, a fracas, or a fight, I would say.
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: As Easterling stood watching, Rivera, which is a code name
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: for somebody that he didn't want to name in the book,
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: that's hurt, rushed out of the bar with a broken
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: beer bottle and forced the men to stop beating Oswald.
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: About that time, Joe, some police officers came up, and
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: the scuffle ended. Easterling claims that Oswald got up and,
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: without any comment, walked away. Easterling did not learn what
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: the altercation was about. Now, let's slide over here to
• 57:45
  Speaker 3: the other side, where we're going to talk to a
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: Border Patrol inspector with the New Orleans Station in 1962
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: and 1963. This guy, this patrol inspector, transferred to Blaine,
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: Washington in April of 63.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: April 10th, 63 to be exact, the day of the
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: Walker shooting. So what he is talking about here had
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: to take place before the 10th because he wasn't in
• 58:15
  Speaker 3: New Orleans after the 10th.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Right. He was transferred, right?
• 58:20
  Speaker 3: So, one seemingly uneventful day, he received a not-so-unusual radio
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: call requesting verification of an alien. At the first precinct
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: of the New Orleans PD, they had an individual in
• 58:32
  Speaker 3: custody who claimed to be Cuban. Responding to the call,
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: Ron proceeded to the first precinct where he interrogated a prisoner,
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: in fact, not sure if booked or aware of charges,
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: named Lee Harvey Oswald, who was claiming to be Cuban.
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: Ron does not recall if he was speaking Spanish and
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: has no recollection of his own of Oswald speaking Russian.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Ron cannot give me a date, the names of any
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: persons at the jail, nor the specifics as to what
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: Oswald said. After five minutes of talking to him, Oswald
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: admitted that he was an American citizen. Right, right. So
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: you imagine a scenario where he's doing his due diligence, right?
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: Oswald's kind of lying like he usually does. And then
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: they figure out, you know, the jig is up type
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: of thing.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: He's an American citizen, so it wasn't specifically documented, is
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: what he's saying, right? Right.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: We'll get there. He does not recall discussing this event
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: with anyone, including co-workers. However, when Oswald's picture hit the press,
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: Ron immediately told his wife, this is the guy that
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: I interviewed in New Orleans. So again, we have Somebody
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: after the assassination seeing Oswald's picture and things start clicking
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: in their mind like, oh, this is the guy, right?
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Ron admitted frequent contact with Orest Pena. Pena's brother told
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: him that Orest was working for or going to work
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: for the FBI. He also recalls Customs David Smith, which
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: we'll get to here in a second. So this is
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: actually from Wendell Roach, another INS guy. And he relates
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: the Ron Smith story, okay, that we just read. And
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: this is to the church committee in 1975. Right. He
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: related that Ron Smith happened to receive a call from
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: the NOPD, which at that time had Oswald in custody.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: Oswald would only speak Russian. Now it's Russian, not Cuban,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 3: which makes a little more sense because Oswald didn't know Spanish.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: And the NOPD deducted that he was Russian because he
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: was probably speaking Russian to them, fucking with them. Smith
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: went to the NOPD and Roach believes that he identified
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: Oswald fairly quickly within five minutes as an American citizen.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: After that, Oswald spoke in English. Roach does not know
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: if Smith filed a report. He did state that he
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: talked to Smith about it two weeks ago, adding that
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: he had no objection to my telling Smith that he
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: had referred me to him. There is no indication in
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: FBI documents or the commission's record that Oswald was in
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: New Orleans on any occasion before between October of 59
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: and April 24, 63. However, an Immigration and Naturalization Service
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: inspector testified before the church committee that he is absolutely
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: certain that he interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald in a New
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: Orleans jail cell sometime shortly before his April 10, 63
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: transfer out of New Orleans. Although the inspector did state
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: that based upon his experience, it was most unusual for
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: an American to assert that he was an alien. He
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: noted that visits to jail cells to verify an individual's
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: citizenship status were frequent and routine. And reports were not filed, Joe,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: unless it was determined that the individual was illegally in
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: the United States. So right there, no report made, which
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: is why there's nothing in the official record about this.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Now, further corroboration. You want it, you got it. Floyd Hepting, okay,
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: a port agent, American Radio Association of Canal Street, telephonically
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: advised the New Orleans office on December 13th that on
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: that date, while riding in a Liberty Bell cab, he
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: talked to the driver regarding Lee Harvey Oswald.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: What type of cab?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: Liberty Bell.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: Fuck you, sir.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: I was trying to bait you.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: He said the cab driver told him that he was
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 3: in the vicinity of the Havana bar located near Canal
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: and Decatur approximately nine months ago. When you do the math,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: 12 minus nine is three, which is March, which could
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 3: be four, which is April. You know, the guys looking
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: back in time, approximately nine months ago, he witnessed Oswald,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 3: and several Cubans involved in an argument which appeared to
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: be leading to a fight. The fracas was broken up
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 3: by Al, an NOPD beat officer in the area. Okay,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: so when you start putting two plus two plus two
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: together here, folks, this guy, Floyd Hepting, has nothing at
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: all to do with anything. A cab driver has nothing
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: at all to do with anything, right? But he's relating
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: an incident that Robert Easterling relates. And it matches. And
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 3: it makes sense if Al, a New Orleans Police Department
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: beat officer in the area, happened upon this little fracas
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: and Oswald was getting his ass kicked and Oswald get up,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: they break it up, Oswald gets up to leave and
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: Al takes him on down to the station. Right? Because
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: maybe Oswald started talking Cuban to him or some crazy shit.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Or Russian, right? Yeah.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: Um, so that's interesting. And this is not just, I mean,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: it's from a, this is from an FBI document and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 3: it was also a DOJ document as well.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: Yes. And, and I think it's important to note, Rob,
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: that between Smith, um, what's that Scafusa's name?
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 3: Kepling?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: I butchered it. And Roach, you have three different examples
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: of corroboration of a possibly early April incident. When Fred,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: and like I said, bless his heart, he has the documents,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: talks about one Cuban exile, Friendly Whip Ringier, of course,
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: Talking about that. So which documents do you believe type
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: of thing, right? I guess it's up to the audience, but.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, technically his documents don't present any fracases.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 3: His documents don't support the version of events that Oswald
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: writes about in the August 1st letter. Ours do. That's
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: the difference. And I'm not shitting on Fred. It's just,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: you know, I understand it would take him... a lot
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: to get where we're at in the documents in this
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: line of thinking, because we're basically presenting a best guess
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: scenario based on these alternative scenarios, right?
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: And so speculation with April operating documents, April.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: 5th, Oswald gets fired from Jagger's child. Stovall goes home,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: gets in a big fight with Marina about it, right?
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: And she tells him, you know, just go home to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: New Orleans where you're from. Find a job. We'll move there.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: You know, we'll get out of Dallas. So Saturday, Oswald
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 3: hops on a bus or what have you. Or gets
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 3: a ride, one of the two, to New Orleans where
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 3: he shows up.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: And....
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: Maybe... hooks up with some old buddies, some old pals, right?
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: Which brings us here. To the old flight plan.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: The old flight plan.
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: Which is dated April 8th, 63. Which would be.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: Monday.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: Monday, right. Monday, April 8th.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: So.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: Three days after he was allegedly fired.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is a flight plan drafted by David
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: Ferry leaving from Hammond, Louisiana, going to Garland, a direct flight.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: And his passenger list says Heidel. Okay? It's a problem. Now,
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: there's only one way that David Ferry would know the
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: name or alias Heidel on April 8th of 1963. And
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: that is if Oswald told him, use my alias, it's Heidel.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: There is no other explanation. If you think that this
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: is a legitimate flight plan filed legitimately by David Ferry
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 3: or found in some pile of receipts from somewhere long ago.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's an official FAA document, right? So it's
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: not like made up. I even think Garrison kind of
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: glossed over it a little bit or didn't realize its
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: possible significance.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, obviously, I mean, obviously they knew about
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: the Heidel alias, right? But using it this early in
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 3: early April of 63 is a problem because he likely
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: just made them at Jagger's child Stovall, probably in February
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: or March, probably March.
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 3: And he wouldn't have been back to new Orleans before that.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: He may have talked to David on the phone if
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: that was his buddy or whatever and told him about it.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But if he went back to new Orleans,
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 3: hooked up with his old pal Dave to see if
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 3: there's any work around or whatever uh and then got
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: sucked up into some kind of a scheme to go
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 3: shoot a General Walker right for whatever reason uh And
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: they hop on a plane on April 8th, go to Dallas,
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 3: and kind of hang out somewhere until the night of
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 3: the Walker shooting. And then Lee goes home after that
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 3: because they're already back in Dallas. And then Ferry and
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 3: whoever the hell Lambert and Diaz are go back with Ferry.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 3: Or maybe they stay there too. I don't know. It's interesting.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 3: But then, this kind of goes through a little more
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: about the flight plan. From Larry Hancock's book, Someone Would
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 3: Have Talked. This is what the USS Wasp looked like.
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: It was a big fucking aircraft carrier. I just threw
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 3: that in there for shits and giggles. Why not? Huh?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: Why not? Yeah.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what it looked like.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's a big effing boat to be
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: down on the docks, you know what I mean?
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: But the original USS Wasp was lost at sea in
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: World War II, and they rebuilt another ship and renamed
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 3: it the USS Wasp in memory of the fallen ship.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: And that's the one that he was leafleting at the docks, allegedly. Allegedly.
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: And there's also something out there that I believe I
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: believe Ruth Payne visited Marina the Monday after he got
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: fired from Jagger's Child Stovall. And she also said Lee
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: was not there.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we covered that a year ago, yes.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Lee was not at the house, which also
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: makes him available to be out of town or on
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: the flight back to Dallas. He is not at home.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: He is somewhere else.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: We don't have anything official except for that Texas Employment
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 3: Commission receipt from the 12th, which is Friday, where we
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: have Oswald in person at that office.
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah. And, Rob, just because you just led me
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: on to this, it's a good segue. Let me just
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: recap some of the documents here that we have in
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: regards to Texas Employment Commission and the anomalies there. If
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: you want to put this up, you've already read it.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: Let me address a couple comments here real quick.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: Jolene asks, could he have known it from David Attlee Phillips?
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: And I'll just tell you this, Jolene. I'm not a
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: big fan of the David Attlee Phillips theory of him
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: being puppeteering Oswald through everything. Again, that's one of Jim
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: DiEugenio's pet theories that I don't quite buy into. Because
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: there's absolutely zero documentation about it.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: None, whatsoever. The only thing you have is something from
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: Antonio Vecchiana, who you can't trust, and Judith Barry Baker,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: who you can't trust.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Right. It's pretty much speculation, yes.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: So, you know, I don't know about that. And then... Brett,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 3: pretty sure Oswald was using the Hydel alias in Russia. No,
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: he was using the Alec name in Russia because Russian
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: people couldn't say Lee. So everybody called him Alec or
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: Alex in Russia, which is probably why he made that
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: part of his alias, Alec Hydel. Nobody really knows where
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: the hell Hydel comes from, but he definitely was not
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 3: using it in Russia.
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, Joe.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: Okay, why don't you put this up for a sec?
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: My pee-pee. And we just have some of the Texas
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: Employment Commission documents. You can see the building here on
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: the right. And let me see. There was something I
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: wanted to highlight here. Maybe it was on the previous
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 2: one or the next one. Oh, okay. On the right side,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: you could see the Linodex. which we did go over
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: last year, and this is of the Cunningham Exhibits 1
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: and 1A, and we did a close-up of that. This
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: is in the Warren Commission, and there seems to be
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: some anomalies here in terms of when did Oswald actually
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: visit the Texas Employment Commission. If it was that Monday,
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 2: the 8th, he almost certainly wasn't on that manifest unless
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 2: he rushed off the plane and got there, I guess.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: But on the right side, you see under the 4-8
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: a C, which is then X'd out, which Rob and
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: I have theorized meant call. But we know, based on
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: the next documents I'm going to show, that we do
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 2: know Oswald was in person at the Texas Appointment Commission
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: on the 12th. We just do not know if he
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: was there on the 8th, right?
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now what she says here, Joe, if you go
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 3: back to that slide for a second.
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 3: And we don't have this in color, okay? But what
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 3: she says is she marked calls in a green felt
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: tip marker or something like that. And in-person actual contacts
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 3: is something else. But now, this Lenindex is dates of contact.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: Whether it's he called... Or he came in. Right? This is,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: you know, points of contact, dates of contact.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 3: But as you can see, it's been tampered with. There's
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 3: two different versions, and both these versions are in the
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 3: Warren Commission report. And if you look real closely, folks,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 3: you can see that the one on the left has been,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: at least the date, if you look at the date
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 3: for 863 it looks like it has been gone over
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 3: a couple times to make it look darker or been
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 3: gone over with a green felt tip marker right you
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 3: can see that the 4 looks a little thicker and
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 3: a little different right because the 4 on the right
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 3: has the thing that comes down in an L across
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: the slash to make it a 4 you can actually
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 3: see it it comes out the other side very good
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: But on the left, it's hardly there anymore. It's almost
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: like it's been swallowed up by a marker. And the
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: 8 on the right, you know, barely looks like an 8.
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 3: But the one on the left is much darker and
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: gone over. And you kind of lose the 8 in
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: the thickness of the marker on top of it. Same
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: with the 3. I mean, look at the 3 on
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: the right. It's very clear. That's the problem. The 3
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 3: on the left is jacked up.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: So.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: And even the two in the... Oh, no. I'm saying, like,
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: I was reading the wrong line, but, you know, you
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: look under 1010 on the left, there's nothing on the
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: left screenshot of 1030, but it is added on the
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: right side, which, again, both Warren Commission exhibits. And the 10s...
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: Or even weird. So there's a lot of problems with this.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: Especially that, when you mentioned the marker, Rob, under the 10-3, right?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: Which would have been October 63, before he got the job, what,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: mid-October at the TSBD? I mean, that C is dark.
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: I'd at least expect some type of imprint on the left,
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: even if it's subtle or light. It just doesn't add up.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something going on here. We don't know exactly what,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: but where there's fuckery, there's fire. Okay?
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: That should be a new merch idea, by the way.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 3: Hey, that's a good one. I can see that on
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: a t-shirt. Right on the back. All right.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, then we get into, and we've gone over this,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: and you can go back to our episode a year ago.
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: We talked about what kind of repercussions are kept. This
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: is also Warren commission hearings of R L Adams who
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: worked Robert L Adams of the Texas employment commission. Well,
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: he talks about the Lindex strip and I don't want
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: to be, you know, go over this too much, but, um, uh,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: They obviously interview this guy. Inside the folded card, one
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: half of the upper half is for comments concerning availability
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: of public or private transportation, the minimum salary. The individual
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: is willing to accept any restrictions, qualifications the individual may
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: place on employment. The other half of the upper portion
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: indicates whether or not the individual has been counseled. It
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: may include pertinent information such as the individual has been
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: under psychiatric care, has a police record, anything which might
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 2: be necessary in discussing this individual intelligently with an employer.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: The bottom half lists the referrals or attempted referrals of
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 2: this individual for employment. So each time an attempt is
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: made to contact the individual, an entry will be made
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: indicating the date when the contact is attempted, the method,
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: that is, whether by telephone, by telephone message, or by mail,
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: which is very important. The date he was referred, if
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: he was referred, or if he was not referred, whether
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: he was refused the job, or whether he was found
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: not qualified, you know, they're going through the whole process here. So,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 2: they go into more of the Linodex stuff, but Let's
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: just go back for a second and recap. This is
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Oswald's own application, right? Unemployment application. Berkham exhibit, Berksham exhibit one.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: And you could see Oswald literally writes his last day
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 2: of employment April 6th, which would have been that Saturday.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: But we have other documents. The next one here, exhibit
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: number one continued, that his last day was actually the 5th,
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: and that his claim date was the 12th, which would
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: have been two days after the Walker shooting, not on
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 2: the 8th, not Monday, not Friday, but Monday, or not Friday,
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: not Monday, but Friday. You know what I mean? Yes. Yeah, sorry.
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: Then you have another claim date of the Berkham... Exhibit continued.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: Claim date on the 12th. Again, not the 8th. In person,
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: in Texas, at the TEC. And now we have another
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 2: continued exhibit which says he was separated from Jaggers on
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: April 5th, 1963, which would have been on Friday. I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: was laid off by John Graves, head of photography at
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: and not department, due to lack of work, which, of course,
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: wouldn't make sense if his last date was on the Saturday, right?
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 2: As we've alluded to. So there's... I feel like they're
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: trying to... And then we have another Berkham exhibit continued,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: where the first claim date is the 12th, not the 8th.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: So did Oswald just call to check in on the 8th,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: which is what we kind of assume?
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 3: Probably just say, hey, just to let you know, I
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 3: got fired. My last day was this past Friday, and
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: I'm going to come in sometime this week and update
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: all my paperwork and see if you got anything for me.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 2: Right. Right.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: And then he came in on Friday.
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. He was obviously too busy enough. To go
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: in earlier that week, allegedly.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 3: Allegedly, especially that Monday.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: Right. Then, of course, you didn't go over this, did you, Rob?
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: There was no indication, and this is the church committee stuff,
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: you did touch on it, but this is the actual document. However,
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: an immigration and natural relations service inspector testified before the
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 2: church committee. He is absolutely certain, again, absolutely certain, that
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: he interviewed Lee Harvey Oswald in New Orleans yesterday. in
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: a New Orleans jail cell sometime shortly before his April 10th,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: 1963 transfer out of New Orleans. And I believe we
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: found this on the Malcolm Blunt archives because the testimony
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: is allegedly still missing. Yeah. And he talks about whether
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: Oswald was claiming to be a Cuban alien and that he, quote,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: interviewed Oswald to verify or disapprove his status. Spector neither
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: recalls what Oswald said nor what language he conversed in. Again,
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: this is, what, over a decade later, right? So, he
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: does not recall anything unusual about Oswald's dress or demeanor
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: and believes he quickly ascertained that Oswald was not a
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: Cuban alien, at which time he would have left Oswald
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: in his jail cell. Swiker asked some questions.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: Because likely, Joe, if, alright, they just have Oswald in
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: a jail cell, right?
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: He's allegedly been speaking Russian to the NOPD so they
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: call the INS they can't book him they can't do
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: anything if he's speaking Russian and they can't understand him
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: right because they can't type anything up they can't do
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: any reports nothing so they call the INS guy and
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: he gets up after five minutes and says that guy's
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 3: a fucking American he's full of shit I'm leaving likely
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 3: the NOPD was just like alright dude get the hell
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: out of here You know, what are you doing? You know,
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: just get out. And no official report was ever made
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 3: of this incident or this fracas or anything else. Right.
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: And to your point, Schweiker asked, well, what if a
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: person is claiming to be a foreigner and he isn't?
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 2: How would you have run that down? The inspector, well,
• 1:25:20
  Speaker 2: I have never run into a case where a guy
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 2: claimed to be a foreigner and he was a United
• 1:25:26
  Speaker 2: States citizen where he didn't. break individually, I believe it says.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 2: Because when the INS comes knocking into play and you
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 2: advise them, and you advise them, if you are in
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 2: the United States illegally, you're subject to deportation and these
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: type of things. Swiker. So, in all probability, something like
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: that would have happened in Alice Waltz's incident. I am sure. Yeah. So, again,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: you gotta think of The dude probably gets called to
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 2: the police station multiple times a week, probably dozens of
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: times a month. And if there's nothing to see here, again,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 2: this is months and months and months before the assassination
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: or before Oswald's actual August 9th fracas, you're kind of
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: just going to be like, all right, well, I did
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 2: my thing. It's bullshit, and I'm going home. I'm not,
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: I'm cops. Don't do unnecessary paperwork. Let's put it that way.
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: That were some trivial, stupid shit. You know, he just
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 3: got his ass beat on the sidewalk. They probably just
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 3: get out of here, dude. Go home.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Uh, and again, Oswald was not known as
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 2: Oswald to that, uh, Not really. Uh, then you have,
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: we have a little clip here of Joan Melons.
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 3: Is Jones Melons.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:27:06
  Speaker 3: Uh, rest her soul.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: Yes. Uh, talking about Roach and, uh, Ron L. Smith
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: and the INS. She gets some dates wrong here, but we,
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 2: we already went over that. Um, but, but she was
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: somewhat onto this. Uh, Roach 2 observed Oswalt, quote, going
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: into the offices of Ferry's group and said Oswalt was
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: known to be one of the men in the group,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: which is interesting.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: Again, linking Oswalt to Ferry to be on the manifest.
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, a lot of people put Oswalt and Ferry together,
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: but here you have INS people, right?
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: You have two INS inspectors and you have the port agent.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So, that's three. I mean, that's pretty corroborative. I mean, yeah,
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: there you go. You know what I mean? Like, I
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 2: don't know. I said this on the last episode we
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 2: did on this. I kind of view the INS as, like,
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: maybe not completely aligned with maybe the CIA or the
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 2: FBI type of thing. Kind of their own, like, independent
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: independent uh agency why would three different people of two
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: different agencies right if you consider the port police a
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: different agency or whatever law enforcement, be making this up.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: Lying to a congressional committee under oath. Right.
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: Church committee. Right.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: Just saying. Why would they make this shit up?
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 2: Right. I can't think of a reason. I'm sure Fred will,
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: but I can't.
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: And, you know, Joe, where we live, we don't really
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 3: think about Border Patrol or INS very much but if
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 3: you live on a border state or you know on
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: the coastline you can take that down if you will
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: you know the Border Patrol and the INS are very
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: prevalent right especially like in Texas and up around the
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 3: northern border with Canada you know along the coast and
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 3: major ports of call like New York, Norfolk, you know,
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 3: big places like that, they're very prevalent, but, you know,
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 3: in the middle states or these other states, not so much,
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: you know, and especially back then in the 60s, you know,
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 3: they had a much bigger role, you know, a lot
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: of their duties have been kind of absorbed with various
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: other agencies nowadays, but Back then, they were kind of
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: a big deal, but they were separate from local police.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: They were separate from the FBI. They were their own entity.
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: Yes, 100%. And you don't envision much interagency communication going
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 2: on there. I mean, you can envision a scenario where
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: CIA is talking with INS and maybe some port police,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 2: but they're not like on each other's speed dials, right?
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: Well, like I said, in border states and states that
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: are right on the water, yes, they're going to be prevalent.
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, look what happened. The New Orleans picked this
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 3: guy up and he's talking Russian. They don't know what
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: to do with him. They call INS. Hey, can you
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: come talk to this guy and see what the fuck's
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: going on? You know?
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: Right, but that's NOPD calling INS. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 3: You just made the assertion that nobody talked to each other.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: No, I was talking CIA, really. I'm saying, like, when
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: we talk about interagency conflict, I could see a situation
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 2: where communication wasn't Like, without flaw.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure the CIA was talking to the Border Patrol.
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they weren't. I'm saying you could
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 2: envision a scenario where, like, communication wasn't, like, completely fluid. Hmm.
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 2: Uh... Paula says NOLA cops especially wouldn't give AF a shit. Um.
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I... Fuck.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 3: Joe acts like he's on some PG-13 movie.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 2: Hey, man.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 3: Hey, now.
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 2: Gotta.
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: We keeps a real round here.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 2: We gotta.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: We all gotta.
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 2: But let me just... So when we kind of weave
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: it back here and talk about the alleged theory that
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: Jim DiEugenio has come out with about the fracas incident
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: and what Fred has alluded to and that I believe
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: we land on Fred's side that there was at least
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 2: one other incident prior to August 9th because Obviously, Oswald
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: could not see the future. He was not clairvoyant. You
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: know what I mean?
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 3: Joe may land on Fred's side, but Rob does not
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 3: because I don't think that Fred's incidences are what Oswald
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: describes in his letter. Yes, there are incidences that happened
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 3: with Oswald leafleting, yes. But they don't constitute involvement from
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 3: the police or or a fight.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with that for sure. I'm just saying
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: that there was more than one incident other than August 9th.
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: And that is what Fred is trying to make the
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: case for, and I think that's what we made the
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: case for a year ago, regardless of whether it was.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: There was more handbill incidents, but as far as what
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 3: Oswald describes in his letter....
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: No. No.
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 3: Fred does not assert that. At least his instances do
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: not back up what Oswald actually said in his letter.
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: Ours does. Ours involves a real street fracas. Getting messed
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 3: with by the cops and let go. Possibly losing the
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 3: only guy, the only friend he had. They were probably
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: in the Havana bar running their mouth about something pissed
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: some Cubans off. and got their asses beat and kicked
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: out of there. And the other guy, whoever was with Oswald,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: was like, all right, I'm done. You know, whatever. You're
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: on your own now, pal. And that's when Oswald really
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 3: starts ramping up once he goes back to Dallas and
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: then moves to New Orleans at the end of April.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: That's when he really starts ramping up the Fair Play
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 3: for Cuba committee stuff, trying to get a chapter formed,
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: writing V.T. Lee and all of this stuff. Right? That's
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: when he starts to ramp it up. By himself. And so,
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 3: when he's talking, when he's writing in August's first letter
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 3: about prior things, it seems to me like our scenario
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: with an actual other fracas, you have to pay attention
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: to verbiage. Verbiage is a very important joke because we're
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: talking about plurals, plurisees, of different words, if you will,
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 3: make sense.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 3: The other ones that Fred talks about, Oswald is likely
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: by himself because the two people that say they ran
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: into him, he was by himself. So when Oswald uses
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: words like we and things of this nature, you have
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 3: to take that into consideration that that's not what he's
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 3: talking about. He didn't say some rent-a-cop kicked me off
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 3: the dock or some one Cuban called me a communist.
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 3: You know what I mean? He's talking about an altercation,
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 3: a fracas, a fight, or an almost fight. Heated words,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: pushing and shoving, getting shit slapped out of your hand,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: getting a fucking placard ripped off your neck. Maybe no fisticuffs.
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: Slap me, Carlos, slap me. Maybe no fisticuffs, but certainly
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 3: an altercation. A fracas. A disturbing of the peace, if
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 3: you will. And he doesn't mention in that letter that
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: he was arrested.
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 2: Which he would have.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 3: He would have if he was staging this thing. Right.
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 2: It would have increased his bona fides.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: Bona fides.
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: And he wasn't technically arrested. with the incident that happened before. Yeah,
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: he was taken to the NOPD. Yeah, he was thrown
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: in a jail cell. But he wasn't arrested on paper.
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 3: He was likely let go and told, get out of here, douche.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Right. Stop wasting our time.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. 100% agree. Yeah.
• 1:37:03
  Speaker 3: Again, I was of the camp, I believe for a
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 3: long time, the D'Eugenio scenario. That this was staged and
• 1:37:13
  Speaker 3: set up and obviously Oswald's working for the FBI or
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: whatever or the CIA and all of this stuff. But
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 3: it's just a scenario. And it's an easy conspiracy theory
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 3: to believe in because if you believe that Oswald is
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 3: totally innocent and that he's really working for the government,
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: then this makes sense. It makes sense that he staged it.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 3: But when you don't have any documentation whatsoever that backs
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: up that scenario, other than a great theory, it's a problem.
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: Right. Other than a very entertaining, fantastical theory. Yeah.
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: And what Fred did is he brought the documents. He
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: made his case in eight minutes. We brought our documents.
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 3: We made our case in an hour and 40 minutes.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 3: And he's much more concise than us.
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, I think our last episode a year ago
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: pushed 240. That's how long it was. But we went
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: into Walker and Ruby and other things.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot to this theory that we didn't
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: get into. So if you want to learn more about this,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 3: go back and watch the show we did last November
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: around the anniversary. And it's all there. And more.
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: Yep. And I'm just going to finish off with this, Rob. Actually,
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 2: let me... Because you talked about how the ARB... When
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: you talk about putting this Scafusa Cuban exile, Ardanez, right?
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Against two INS inspectors and a port cop versus some
• 1:39:06
  Speaker 2: guy they couldn't even locate. It's kind of a problem because...
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know whatever happened to this guy. Maybe we'll
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 2: look into that and cover it.
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, I don't doubt his story. I don't doubt
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 3: that he wrote the letters. We have the documents. I
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: don't doubt that he identified Oswald as being the guy
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 3: who he encountered on Canal Street handing out a leaflet,
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 3: and he called him a communist. No, that's not where
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 3: he said that he saw Oswald. He said he saw
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: Oswald on Canal Street.
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 3: Do we need to go through it all again, Joe,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 3: for you?
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: No, just put this up really quickly because you talked
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: about the Arb stuff and trying to locate.
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 3: Say Arb one more goddamn time.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: I won't. You're limiting my vocabulary here.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: Me and Doug are making a list of words that
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: we don't want to hear on JFK podcast anymore.
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: So is.
• 1:40:19
  Speaker 3: Regime change specialist, org chart, arb.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 2: And now pleurisy.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 3: Pleurisy is on the list now, yes.
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: Just put this up for one second, because we do
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 2: have the A redacted, redacted, redacted document here. And Rob,
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: I was thinking about this. To Mr.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 3: T.L.
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: Rankin. Now, was that a coincidence? Yes. Because, of course,
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 2: Rankin was one of the lawyers on the Warren Commission, right?
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 2: But it was, what was it, J.L.? Rankin? J.T.? Rankin? J.
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: Lee. J.
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 2: Lee. J.L. Right, I was right the first time. So
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: this is to Mr. T.L. Rankin, president of Lucas Lines.
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: Lex Lines. There you go, which was the steamship company, right?
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, ironically.
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably just a big coincidence.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: Oswald rode over on the SS Marion Lakes when he
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: made his trip to Europe to get to Russia.
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: That is weird, man. By way of introduction, the Redacted Redacted... What.
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 3: Is it, Joe?
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 2: No, I'm not going to say it. Bizarre. And they
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: talk about the A, Redacted Redacted B... Blah, blah, blah.
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: But my efforts to locate Mr. Costilla or his family
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: have to date been unsuccessful. I am hoping you and
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: your company may be able to assist the review board
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 2: in its attempts to locate him through use of longtime
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: company employees who may remember him and or through personal records.
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: And they did not find him. So this is The
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: last couple sentences of Mr. Litwin's article, it doesn't appear
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: that they found him. DiEugenio's thesis that the incident with
• 1:42:29
  Speaker 2: Brigny was a setup is false. And when, just to clarify, Rob,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: when I said I'm on like Team Litwin in this case,
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 2: I'm more referring to this thesis. Perhaps not particularly our thesis,
• 1:42:45
  Speaker 2: but the thesis in the article. Perhaps DiGino will issue
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: a correction on the third edition of Destiny Betrayed, but
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 2: I am not going to hold my breath, which is funny.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: And again, he's trolling a little bit, but you can
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 2: take it down now, Rob. Yeah, it's... I believe we're both... You, me,
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: and Fred are in the opinion that there was demonstrations, leafleting,
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: and incident or incidents Before August 9th, 1963.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I think we, me, you, and Fred are in
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: the camp that there is other explanations for the August
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 3: 1st letter. Right. And there were other letters after he
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: was arrested, Joe. Check this out.
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 3: So on the 12th, he wrote V.T. Lee again.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 3: Okay. And he says, continuing my efforts on behalf of
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 3: the FPCC in New Orleans, I find that I have
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 3: incurred the displeasure of the Cuban exile worms here. I
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 3: was attacked by three of them as the copy of
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: the enclosed summons indicates. I was fined $ 10 and the
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: three Cubans were not fined because of lack of evidence,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 3: as the judge said. I am very glad I am
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 3: stirring things up and shall continue to do so. The
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 3: incident was given considerable coverage in the press and local TV.
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: I'm sure it will all be to the good of
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 3: the Fair Play for Cuba committee. Sincerely, yours, Lee Oswald. Right.
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: And to your point, that specifically refers to the August
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: 9th fracas. Correct.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: Correct. So, again, if he was writing about that on
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 3: the 1st, why would he write about it again on
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 3: the 12th?
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: That's a good point.
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 3: He wouldn't. So, obviously, he's referring to a different incident. Period.
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 3: End of discussion. Game over. Go F yourself, Jim DiEugenio.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 3: But that's not all.
• 1:45:03
  Speaker 2: That is not all.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 3: Because on August 17th, This is the day after Oswald
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 3: appeared on TV. Since I last wrote you on August
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 3: 13th about my arrest and fine in New Orleans for
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 3: distributing literature for the FPCC, things have been moving pretty fast.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 3: On the 16th, I organized a demonstration of three people.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: This demonstration was given considerable coverage by WDSU TV Channel
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 3: 6 and also by our Channel 4. Due to that,
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 3: I was invited by Bill Stuckey to appear on his
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 3: TV show called Latin American Focus at 7.30 p.m. Saturdays
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: on WDSU Channel 6. After this 15-minute interview, which was
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 3: filmed on magnetic tape, at 4 p.m. for rebroadcast at 7.30,
• 1:45:54
  Speaker 3: I was flooded with callers and invitations to debate, as
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 3: well as people interested in joining the Fair Play for
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 3: Cuba New Orleans branch. That, then, is what happened.
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: Might be a little embellishment there on Oswald's part.
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that then is what happened up to this day
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 3: and hour. You can, I think, be happy with the
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 3: developing situation here in New Orleans. I would, however, like
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 3: to ask you to rush some more literature, particularly the
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 3: white sheet Truth About Cuba, regarding restrictions on travel as
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 3: I am quickly running out. Yours truly, Lee Oswald. So again,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 3: it wasn't like The August 1st letter was some anomaly.
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 3: He was writing VT Lee pretty frequently about different things.
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 3: So no, Oswald was not clairvoyant. He was obviously clearly
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 3: referring to a very different set of instances. And he
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 3: separately speaks of a fracas and separately speaks about leafleting
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 3: the USS Wasp, where he says that some of the
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 3: servicemen were very receptive to his pamphlets in a letter
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 3: to VT Lee on the 1st. So, again, we're not
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: saying Fred's wrong here, but we're just giving a third
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: option that is not very accepted in our community because
• 1:47:31
  Speaker 3: nobody else puts Oswald in new Orleans, right. Before the
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 3: Walker shooting, except us and the church committee and three
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 3: INS guys.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean.
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: And you know what, let's see one, two, three other eyewitnesses,
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 3: one to a fracas and, two to a frack is
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 3: actually a cab driver and robert easterly so it's a
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: lot of circumstantial evidence we realize that and we're not
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 3: saying this is not you know a gospel i'm sure
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 3: that it can be torn apart if you want to
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 3: I'm sure Fred will try after he sees this allegedly
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 3: and good on him you know good luck yeah.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: Well I invite him to try and I'm sure he
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 2: will but like I said we come with receipts as
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: does Fred So it kind of goes down to your
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 2: interpretation of it and the documents and who you believe.
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: Some Cuban exile or three federal workers and a couple
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: other random bystanders.
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 3: And what angle you're coming at this from. Again, when
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 3: I talk about Lone Nutters and their ideology or their thinking,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 3: we can look at a set of documents and think
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 3: two totally different things because our ideology is different. If
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 3: we're framing it from the perspective of Oswald Schott Kennedy,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 3: you can look and interpret documents one way. If you're
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 3: thinking that maybe he didn't do that, then you can
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 3: interpret the documents a whole different way. But we can
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 3: both have the documents to support our various arguments. It's
• 1:49:29
  Speaker 3: the interpretation of the documents that's what makes the difference
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 3: between conspiracy theorists and lone nutters.
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 2: Right. But that's also why discourse is important, right? And
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 2: we don't have loan nutters on every month or every
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 2: other month, you know, randomly. But the ones we do
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 2: have on, we feel are, you know, just not making
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: shit up. For the most part, allegedly. But.
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 3: No, they're using the documents as well, but they're framing
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 3: it from their argument.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 2: Like I just said, they're looking at.
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 3: The documents and interpreting them a different way. Of course,
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 3: it becomes totally muddied when you're talking about something like
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 3: the Tippett shooting. When you have all these different witness
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 3: testimonies and you're trying to figure out exactly what time
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 3: Tippett was killed versus could Oswald have made it there
• 1:50:30
  Speaker 3: on time? What if this happened? What if that happened?
• 1:50:33
  Speaker 3: Then you can argue, right? Then it gets muddy. Then
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 3: it gets messy. But when we're talking strictly documentation, I
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 3: think we made a good argument with supporting documents and
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 3: testimony that Oswald went back to New Orleans in early April,
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 3: got involved in a street fight, got taken down to
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 3: the police station, got talked to, and got cut loose.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:51:10
  Speaker 3: Which becomes important because we know, you know, there's a
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: lot of supplemental witness testimony who can put Oswald and
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 3: Ferry obviously knowing each other from being in the cap.
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: But beyond that, did they continue their relationship into Oswald's adulthood?
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: Did he come back to New Orleans and call up
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 3: the only guy he knew who was a pilot, who
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 3: knew how to use guns, who, you know, maybe was.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 2: Might have had some work for him. Might have had
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 2: some work for him. Right.
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 3: Who knows?
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 2: Listen, I don't think he had any contact with very
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: well in Russia or probably... Probably even before April 63, right?
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 3: Probably not since he went into the Marines in 1956.
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 3: He probably hadn't talked to him since then.
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree. And when you think of it
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 2: on a human level, and you're fired from your job,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 2: probably the most stable job you've had, definitely the most
• 1:52:28
  Speaker 2: stable job you've had since you got back from Russia
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 2: and obviously your wife's going to be pissed at that
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 2: expecting her second baby having a young infant you know
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 2: wanting washing machines dryer machines or whatever you could see
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: how a situation like that would make him reach out
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: to old people to to make a buck or for
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: whatever reason somewhere.
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 3: He knows you know Like, I don't know why when
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 3: they came back, they went to Texas. I mean, I
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 3: know he had spent some time there as a youth,
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 3: and his mother and brother were there, yes. But his
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 3: roots are in New Orleans. His extended family is in
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 3: New Orleans, right? So it makes sense, you know, like
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 3: you said, that Marina is pregnant. They just found out
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 3: she was pregnant in February. And he's starting to feel
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 3: the pressure. They're starting to write letters trying to figure
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 3: out what to do about going back to Russia. And
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 3: it's likely they had a heated ass argument. And either
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 3: he left or she told him to go back and
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 3: find something.
• 1:53:52
  Speaker 2: Or he panicked. And or panicked.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, insert theory here. But again, I get the conspiracy
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 3: theory side of things. It's one of those easy things
• 1:54:07
  Speaker 3: to believe in. You know, the DiEugenio scenario. I get it.
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 3: I believed it for a long time, but I don't
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 3: believe it now. I don't believe it now that I've
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 3: looked into things. I've seen the documents. There's a much
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 3: better explanation that makes sense to me than, you know,
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 3: the conspiracy that, oh, well, Oswald's undercover for the FBI
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 3: or CIA or whatever, you know, and this was all
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 3: staged and the letter proves it, blah, you know, blah, blah, blah. No. No,
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 3: that theory doesn't hold up for me anymore.
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: I agree. 100%, sir. So let us, if that's all
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 2: you have, sir, let us leave you with a little
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 2: tease and let me be very Careful with my words
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 2: here as Rob's eyebrows raise. We have an exciting month
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 2: coming up for you. Maybe a show already recorded with
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 2: a guest we have not come on that you will
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: definitely know of and some of your favorite recurring guests. Maybe,
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: definitely four, maybe five weeks in a row.
• 1:55:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, a lot of good guests coming up. Excellent guests,
• 1:55:24
  Speaker 3: as a matter of fact.
• 1:55:27
  Speaker 2: Some would say the best.
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 3: Some would say the best. Some would say that.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 2: Some would say that.
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah. We got a hell of a lineup coming through
• 1:55:35
  Speaker 3: November and into December for sure.
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We've been working hard behind the scenes. Yes. We
• 1:55:42
  Speaker 2: love you guys. We appreciate all your support. I wanted to.
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 2: Tiny said something. It was like, there's 50 people watching
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 2: and there's only like A dozen-ish, or we got 19
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 2: likes so far. So guys, help us defeat the ALGO.
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 2: Hit that like button, please. Hype it up when you
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 2: get the chance.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 3: It's free. All you got to do is hit the
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 3: like button.
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 2: Takes like two seconds.
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 3: And if you're not subscribed, if you're watching, if you're skafoozing, subscribe.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 3: Hop in the chat. It's a fun time.
• 1:56:15
  Speaker 2: We have fun over here.
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Make fun of us. Shit on us. Whatever you
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 3: want to do. It's all good in the chat.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: We don't take it personal.
• 1:56:25
  Speaker 3: Well, some things. I will block you from the channel.
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 3: Some skafoos have been blocked. But you have to be
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 3: extremely skafoos. Skafoos. I mean, I have thick skin, but
• 1:56:42
  Speaker 3: sometimes homie don't play that shit.
• 1:56:47
  Speaker 2: It's just not productive to like see the chat go
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 2: back and forth.
• 1:56:52
  Speaker 3: I see if people are on here for one reason
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 3: and one reason only.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: To troll.
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 3: To troll and they can get to stepping. But yeah,
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 3: any questions, any combos, any topics where, you know, it's
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 3: all wide open here. But yeah, thank you guys so
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 3: much for hanging out with us here on another exciting
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: Friday edition of the Lone Gummin' Podcast. Members got to
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: see it Wednesday and you get to see it now.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 3: The epic finale We have yet another cool cartoon that
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: I put together for our way out the door here. So, Joe,
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 3: if you want to grab the damn dog before we
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 3: play this video.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: I will try as I pretend to log off and
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 2: mute and say, peace, Rob, and she'll come.
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 3: Grabbing the damn dog. That's right, Josh. They know who
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 3: they are. Yes, and all members are welcome on Wednesday nights,
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 3: all levels.
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 2: Yep, for the whole month of November.
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 3: Yep, the whole month. Ruby! Hey, Ruby!
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 2: Hi, Ruby!
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 3: Hi! Alright, folks, we'll see you soon. Be on the
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 3: lookout for some random ramblings, some book reviews, and members
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 3: only next Wednesday. We love you. Peace out.
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you, everyone.
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: Look what you did! Get in!
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: Get in!
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 3: Come on!
• 1:59:08
  Speaker 2: Go, go!
• 1:59:39
  Speaker 3: Thank you.