Latest / The Becket Cook Show / He Escaped Side B: Spencer Boliou's Testimony

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He Escaped Side B: Spencer Boliou's Testimony · The Becket Cook Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Life Audio.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: You are listening to The Beckett Cook Show with your host,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Beckett Cook. For more information about Beckett and his ministry,
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: visit his website at beckettcook.com. To help support the podcast,
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: visit patreon.com slash thebeckettcookshow. Please consider subscribing to the podcast
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: and leaving a five-star rating. Hey, guys.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. Today, I have a special guest,
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: Spencer Bolio. And I'm a little under the weather today.
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: The weather in LA has been crazy. It's been like
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: super hot. And then it suddenly shifted to super cold
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: in the middle of the night two nights ago and
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: last night. And I woke up with kind of a cold.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: But the show must go on. Spencer Bolio has an
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: amazing story. He got caught up in the inside B
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: theology for a while. And fortunately he escaped that cult.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: And we're going to get into all of that and
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: watch till the end, because I'm going to ask him
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: to do something special. He's an amazing singer songwriter. And
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: so watch till the end. Also, as of today, which
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: is Monday, October 12th, we have 193,124 subscribers and which
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: means we're only 6,876 subscribers away from 200,000 subscribers. So
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: please help us get over that hump and please subscribe.
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: But first, a word from our sponsor. Welcome, Spencer Beaulieu.
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: Hey, good to meet you.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: Good to meet you. I'm glad to have you on. Finally,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: we tried to get together last week. It was like
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: 100,000 degrees in my apartment and we literally couldn't do it.
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: So I couldn't do it. So I'm glad you're here.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: And I want to hear your full story and my
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: audience to hear your story. And as I mentioned in
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: the intro, we have a special surprise at the end
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: of this episode, so please watch to the end. So
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: start with your childhood. You were born and raised in Boise, Idaho,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: in a Christian.
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  Speaker 4: Family, right?
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  Speaker 5: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, Boise, Idaho.
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  Speaker 5: I think my story just doesn't look at all like
• 2:31
  Speaker 5: at first, like people would expect from someone dealing with
• 2:33
  Speaker 5: same sex attraction and growing through that, because my parents
• 2:38
  Speaker 5: are incredible.
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: We're incredible, are incredible.
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  Speaker 5: Um, they raised us triplet kids of a triplet, a
• 2:44
  Speaker 5: triplet brother and a triplet sister.
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  Speaker 4: So it was wild. That's amazing, by the way.
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  Speaker 6: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And so what, what were you, were you regular churchgoers
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: as kids? Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. The two, three times a week type of church goers.
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  Speaker 3: That's, that's great. So, and then, uh, what was, when,
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  Speaker 3: when you were a little kid, like, when did you
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: start to believe that? I mean, did you immediately, did
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: you just instantly believe that God was real or like,
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: when did you actually believe?
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  Speaker 5: Oh, that one's, that one was hard for me because
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: My whole life, and I'll get to it more later,
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: but I was such a skeptical kid. Everyone around me
• 3:33
  Speaker 5: was a believer, but I remember being four years old,
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  Speaker 5: going to a Bible study, and the kids part of it,
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  Speaker 5: they would tell us to sit down, crisscross applesauce, and
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: they would open the Bible, and they'd say, this story
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  Speaker 5: is not make-believe.
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  Speaker 4: It's not a fairy tale. It's the word of God.
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  Speaker 4: It's real.
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  Speaker 5: And I remember thinking at that age, I was four,
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: thinking like, you have to say all that?
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  Speaker 4: It sounds like you're trying to convince me of something.
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So I always wanted to believe, but I, I probably
• 4:04
  Speaker 5: said the sinner's prayer like over a hundred times throughout
• 4:07
  Speaker 5: my childhood because I just never knew, do I have
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  Speaker 5: real saving faith? Do I really believe, or do I
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  Speaker 5: just think I believe?
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  Speaker 4: I don't, I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Wow.
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  Speaker 7: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: And so, uh, I guess we'll get to when you
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  Speaker 3: actually realize you actually believed. So, and then what, There's
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: a major complication in this situation when you discovered that
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: you were attracted to the same sex, right? What was
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: that like? How old were you? Did you tell your parents?
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  Speaker 3: What was that like?
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, for me, it started as a very small kid
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  Speaker 5: feeling different. During my college years, I would look back
• 4:50
  Speaker 5: at those years and think, oh, that was because I
• 4:51
  Speaker 5: was gay. But now I look back And I see
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  Speaker 5: it through a whole different lens of like disconnect that
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  Speaker 5: was forming between me and my sense of being a
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  Speaker 5: boy or being a man.
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  Speaker 4: In a true way.
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  Speaker 5: Not that I thought I was a girl, but there
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  Speaker 5: were things that made me not feel adequate as a
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  Speaker 5: man or, or a kid or boy in that sense.
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  Speaker 5: So like, I remember my mom, for example, she took
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  Speaker 5: this pasta out of the fridge and realized that I
• 5:18
  Speaker 5: had some mold in the back corner of it and.
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  Speaker 4: Was smelling it, trying to see if it was okay.
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  Speaker 5: And before she could say anything, my dad just jumps
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  Speaker 5: in and like takes a bite out of it and just,
• 5:30
  Speaker 5: you know, throws it down. And she's like, oh, that's disgusting.
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  Speaker 4: Men will eat anything.
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  Speaker 5: And I remember watching that thinking I would never have
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  Speaker 5: eaten that, you know, it might've had mold on it.
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  Speaker 4: I would, there's no way I would do that.
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  Speaker 5: So am I really like moving in the direction of
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  Speaker 5: my dad towards being a man or am I like,
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  Speaker 5: so these are kind of dumb examples, but it was,
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  Speaker 5: a lot of little things like that over time just
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  Speaker 5: kind of made me feel different.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Well, when you, and so when you reflect back on,
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: on your childhood, I mean, this is like a hard
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  Speaker 3: thing to pinpoint obviously, but like, what do you think
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  Speaker 3: led to same sex attraction? Like what do you think
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  Speaker 3: it was?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah. For me, I think there's two things.
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  Speaker 5: Um, one would be a sense of gender, insecurity, just
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  Speaker 5: being insecure, gender inferiority, not feeling like I measure up or,
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  Speaker 5: you know, I'm enough as a boy. Um, that combined with,
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  Speaker 5: I was so competitive as a kid that I had
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  Speaker 5: to be the best at everything. So there was this
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  Speaker 5: envy that I had, um, towards any guy that like,
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  Speaker 5: I was actually decently athletic, but if someone was more
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  Speaker 5: athletic than me, I'd feel like I was nothing. And
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  Speaker 5: then I just wanted to be like that guy so bad.
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  Speaker 4: So I think it's that.
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  Speaker 5: Like consistent competitiveness going too far and envy. And then
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  Speaker 5: also feeling kind of, um, just fundamentally different from my
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  Speaker 5: triplet brother and my dad in like an emotional way.
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  Speaker 5: Like my personality was just more similar to my mom.
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  Speaker 5: And I would have longer, deeper talks on average with
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  Speaker 5: like my sister or my mom than I would with, with, uh, my,
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  Speaker 5: my dad and brother. So it felt like these factors
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  Speaker 5: were just slowly building over time into, and, Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Go ahead.
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  Speaker 3: And so you had just like a more of a
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  Speaker 3: sensitive temperament than your brother and sister, maybe your brother,
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  Speaker 3: you had more of a, and how did your dad
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  Speaker 3: respond to that sensitivity?
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: Great.
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  Speaker 4: In a lot of ways.
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  Speaker 5: It's funny because he's an incredible dad, but neither of
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  Speaker 5: us knew the ways that we were kind of disconnecting
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  Speaker 5: at like a deeper emotional conversational level, because I was
• 7:51
  Speaker 5: learning who I was as a person.
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  Speaker 4: He was learning who I was as a person. And
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  Speaker 4: neither of us knew who I was yet. And so
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  Speaker 4: I think we were.
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  Speaker 5: Just kind of late in that process a little bit.
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  Speaker 5: And we didn't even realize anything was starting to, any
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  Speaker 5: distance was starting to grow between us at like an
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  Speaker 5: emotional level. Like my dad probably wouldn't have said that
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  Speaker 5: there was any distance. And I wouldn't have said there
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  Speaker 5: was distance. I just knew I was closer to my mom,
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  Speaker 5: if that makes sense.
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  Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that was like my story too. I was
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  Speaker 3: close to my mom and my five brothers were close
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  Speaker 3: to my dad. It was like very similar. But how
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  Speaker 3: did this kind of discovery that you were same-sex attracted, whatever,
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  Speaker 3: how did that impact your faith or your idea about
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Christianity or whatever? How did that impact that? We'll be
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  Speaker 3: right back after this short break.
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  Speaker 8: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So when I was in junior high, that was the
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  Speaker 5: point when, you know, puberty happened and I realized that,
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  Speaker 5: you know, all of my sexual feelings would be towards
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  Speaker 5: guys and weren't at all towards women.
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  Speaker 4: It felt like, yeah, 100% directed towards guys. And I
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  Speaker 4: just assumed that would change.
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  Speaker 5: Cause I, no one really was telling me that I
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  Speaker 5: was gay. Like my experience, I didn't have any direct
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: trauma or direct bullying, but I did have these disconnects
• 9:22
  Speaker 5: that led to that sense of gender insecurity. And I
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  Speaker 5: had a lot of, of envy I was struggling through
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  Speaker 5: as well.
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  Speaker 4: Um, and so I just told myself like.
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  Speaker 5: This will probably change at some point, like I'll become
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  Speaker 5: a full grown adult and be okay. But taking a
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: quick detour, cause this is like the faith moment of
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: like the answer to the beginning of the question I posed.
• 9:44
  Speaker 5: Of the sinner's prayer over and over again and never
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  Speaker 5: feeling like I could believe God was real.
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  Speaker 3: When I was.
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  Speaker 5: About 17, I hit this point where I was kind
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: of hiding the whole sexuality thing and not talking about
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  Speaker 5: it with myself or anyone else. Um, but I was
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  Speaker 5: so tired of hiding the fact that I had all
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: these doubts about God's existence. Um, because I, I would
• 10:08
  Speaker 5: look into other worldviews and the Christian worldview would always
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: answer my questions to like 95% and any other worldview
• 10:16
  Speaker 5: would fall way short of 95%. It would be like 10, 15, Um,
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: but that 5% of questions I couldn't fully answer, like
• 10:24
  Speaker 5: a perfect answer to the problem of evil.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: I couldn't totally have it. Um, I could find some
• 10:29
  Speaker 4: decent ones.
• 10:30
  Speaker 5: Uh, I finally ended up yelling at God in a
• 10:35
  Speaker 5: Spencer way, which wasn't really yelling, but I was definitely mad.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: I was very mad on the inside.
• 10:39
  Speaker 5: I was like, God, if you are there and you are,
• 10:44
  Speaker 5: you exist the way you say you do in the Bible,
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: then you want me to believe you.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: And you want me to be able.
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: To trust you and have saving faith. And I feel
• 10:51
  Speaker 5: like I can't have saving faith and trust in you
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  Speaker 5: on my own.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to.
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: Need you to make me believe. And when I prayed that, bro,
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: like I.
• 11:03
  Speaker 5: Was hit with a wave of just total peace and
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: like a warm blanket, a feeling of almost like a
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: warm blanket and a hug being wrapped around me. And
• 11:12
  Speaker 5: I was like, did that just happen?
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: Am I really?
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: Am I really going to believe that this was coincidence
• 11:20
  Speaker 5: when I just asked God for help? And now I've
• 11:23
  Speaker 5: never had this radical of a shift in my emotions
• 11:26
  Speaker 5: or feelings in my life ever from just pure anger
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  Speaker 5: and fear to like perfect peace.
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  Speaker 4: Um, so I, were.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: You like in your bedroom or something? When, when, where
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  Speaker 3: were you when this happened?
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  Speaker 2: Yup.
• 11:40
  Speaker 4: My bedroom.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: And so what was it like after that moment? Like,
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: did you, were you just all in for Jesus? Like
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: what happened?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:49
  Speaker 5: I told God that I would, um, believe that he
• 11:52
  Speaker 5: was working in my life and other people's lives when
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: I saw activity that could be him at work. And
• 11:58
  Speaker 5: then I would have questions. Second, I would start by
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: believing and then have questions second. And when I started
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: doing that, he started like using me to like lead
• 12:06
  Speaker 5: Bible studies and influence other kids in my church youth group.
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: And I would see him changing other people's lives through me.
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: And it started building my faith to where I was like, wow,
• 12:16
  Speaker 5: God is like, not just real, but working in me
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: so much more than I would have expected past my
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: confirmation bias or anything like that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 4: So it was incredible.
• 12:26
  Speaker 5: And that, that kind of led me into my first
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: year of college, which was when the sexuality question really
• 12:33
  Speaker 5: hit me hard.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Well, before we get to that, did you tell your
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: parents that you had this experience with the Lord? Yeah,
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: I did.
• 12:44
  Speaker 5: A time before, and I was so embarrassed crying.
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: I'm like, guys, I'm this 16-year-old kid crying.
• 12:49
  Speaker 5: Like, I don't know if I'm saved or if I
• 12:51
  Speaker 5: really know God. And they were like, just pray again.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: And that was helpful. But after I had this experience, I.
• 13:00
  Speaker 7: Don't know.
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  Speaker 5: I actually don't know if I told anyone. I've told
• 13:03
  Speaker 5: them since then. But, but yeah, it was, it was
• 13:06
  Speaker 5: definitely crazy.
• 13:08
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: So, okay. So get back to, so you went off
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: to college. What, and what happened then?
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  Speaker 7: Yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So in college, um, I just never explored sexually at
• 13:20
  Speaker 5: all to that point into my life. Um, yeah, even
• 13:24
  Speaker 5: just personally in my head, like fantasy physically, any of
• 13:27
  Speaker 5: those ways. And so when I finally did, it hit
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: me like, Oh, I am what the world calls gay, apparently,
• 13:37
  Speaker 5: because I'm 18, 17, 18. Like if this was going
• 13:41
  Speaker 5: to change on its own, it would have happened by now.
• 13:44
  Speaker 5: So that hit me super surreal and weird feeling. But
• 13:47
  Speaker 5: then simultaneously I was like, I know I'm not leaving
• 13:52
  Speaker 5: Jesus because like he had just really awakened my faith
• 13:55
  Speaker 5: and started working in my life. So I was excited
• 13:58
  Speaker 5: to like tell the whole world that you don't have
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: to leave God. You don't have to leave Jesus. Um,
• 14:04
  Speaker 5: just because you have these feelings, you don't have to
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: act on them. Um, so I was like ready to speak,
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: ready to share, but, but I also did not know
• 14:14
  Speaker 5: what I was talking about at all. And I had
• 14:16
  Speaker 5: no idea how hard it would get afterwards.
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: Um, and so what, what happened? So tell us about
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: the difficulty. Like what, what did you go through in
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: terms of like dealing with this kind of new uh,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: reality or sort of semi reality of like, I am
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: gay quote unquote, but I'm also a Christian. So how,
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: how did you navigate that?
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: So I knew clearly what the Bible said about homosexuality that,
• 14:48
  Speaker 5: you know, it doesn't affirm same sex marriage or lust
• 14:51
  Speaker 5: or sexual behavior. So I knew I wasn't going to
• 14:53
  Speaker 5: do that, but through exploration and everything I stumbled into,
• 14:59
  Speaker 5: I don't know what we say on YouTube, like the corn, pornography.
• 15:02
  Speaker 6: I don't know wait do you edit those things yeah
• 15:06
  Speaker 6: okay yeah you can say that that's fine yeah um
• 15:10
  Speaker 6: and you know that really made things so much worse
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: because it just fed my fantasy and started sending me
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: down more and more of a rabbit hole of just
• 15:21
  Speaker 6: um i was never embracing um.
• 15:25
  Speaker 5: Sexuality towards men but like my behavior was through things
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: like porn and and all that and so uh.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: It got really hard.
• 15:35
  Speaker 5: I did tell my sister, um, first about dealing with
• 15:40
  Speaker 5: these things in college and then my brother and they
• 15:43
  Speaker 5: both reacted really well. Um, same with my parents. And
• 15:47
  Speaker 5: I think a lot of that was because they, um, well,
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: I didn't say, Hey guys, I'm gay. You got to
• 15:54
  Speaker 5: accept this. It was more like, this is something I'm
• 15:58
  Speaker 5: like wrestling through. And I'm just gotta be honest because, um,
• 16:02
  Speaker 5: it's like intimidating and, um, a very difficult part of
• 16:06
  Speaker 5: my life. So I need to tell you finally about it.
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: Um, yeah. So I told them, uh.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: And then you, and then you kind of started to,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: you stumbled upon some books of, of side B theology
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: and tell us about that and like how that affected you.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: Okay, so at first giving credit, at first it helped
• 16:34
  Speaker 5: me and then it ended up capping out the help
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: that the books could give. So originally the Side B
• 16:41
  Speaker 5: books helped me realize I wasn't alone with my sexuality
• 16:46
  Speaker 5: and this struggle.
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: For anyone that doesn't know, Side.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: B is basically the perspective that we reject gay marriage
• 16:54
  Speaker 5: and gay sex and lust and all of that. but
• 16:59
  Speaker 5: that it's also an area of your life that God
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: doesn't really change at least before heaven. So you can
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: essentially embrace a gay identity. Not that it's your primary identity,
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: like your first identity is still in Christ, but beneath that,
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: you can have a gay identity and say, Hey, I'm
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: a gay Christian and I'll probably always be this way. And,
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: you know, we don't really know anything about how this, how,
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: you know, what being gay is and how it may
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: or may not change. Plus, if you try to pursue change,
• 17:30
  Speaker 5: it's more likely to hurt you and cause disappointment than
• 17:33
  Speaker 5: to lead to freedom. So you should just not really
• 17:38
  Speaker 5: pursue change at all and only pursue Jesus, which I
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: just think it's kind of a false dichotomy that I'll
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: get to in terms of, you know, Jesus not really
• 17:49
  Speaker 5: touching that area of our sexuality. I think part of
• 17:52
  Speaker 5: pursuing Jesus involves believing in his.
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: Work in every area of our life.
• 17:59
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: And if I can add to that, so with, as
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: you were saying, with Side B theology, you know, you
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: call yourself, I mean, people in that camp call themselves
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: gay Christians, even queer Christians. I know many people who
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: call themselves queer Christians, which to me is mind blowing. Like,
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: I'm just like, what are you talking about? You're like
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: a new creation person. And there's several things I want
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: to mention. So number one, as you sort of alluded to,
• 18:33
  Speaker 3: what you're doing in essence by calling yourself a gay
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Christian is, and identifying as that, or a queer Christian,
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: is you're cutting off the Holy Spirit from sanctifying that
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: part of you because you're holding on to that old
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: identity that is sinful. And It's also like pairing the
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: sacred and profane together, like gay Christian. The two words
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: don't belong together. Also, that camp believes in the idea
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: of the concept of sexual minority. Some people in that
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: camp call themselves sexual minorities, which is not a biblical
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: concept at all. There's only sexual sin in the Bible.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: There's no such thing as sexual minority at It also
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: has a victim mentality. The whole Side B theology has
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: a victim. It's like, I'm a victim, but we're not victims.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: We're victors in Christ. So to kind of play this
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: victim is, again, it goes against biblical theology. It goes
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: against the Holy Spirit sanctifying you. There's also spiritual friendships
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: in that group, which encourages same-sex attracted Christians to make
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: lifelong friendship vows with a same-sex friend, even involving commitment ceremonies,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: which are basically gay weddings. And as Rosaria Butterfield says,
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: I love it. And if you guys haven't if you
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: want to see like a full explanation of this whole thing,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: I've done interviews with Rosario Butterfield and Christopher Yuan on this.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: But she says, we must never celebrate or sanctify our flesh,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: nor should we ever use ontological terminology to define who
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: we are that is rooted in our flesh. Our desire
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: to be missional in this world should never reshape our theology.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: So anyway, so I can understand how you kind of like,
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: you were drawn to that side B theology because it
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: kind of helped you relate to it. You were able
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: to relate, but then how did you get out of that? Like,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: when did you realize there was kind of some danger
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: to that?
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: I had to get punched in the face by a
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: very patient, very patient guy.
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: Oh, Jim.
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:03
  Speaker 7: His name is Jim.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:06
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: So what did he do?
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: So my pastor brought him in.
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: This was my senior year of college to give a
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: workshop to help Christians be more loving to people in
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: the LGBT community and, you know, foster missional relationships. Um,
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: and he, I wasn't able to go to the conference,
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: but we made sure to connect. We met up at
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: a Starbucks talked and I was explained to him how, Hey,
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: I'm a gay Christian. I'm a sexual minority. I love
• 21:35
  Speaker 5: to be in a sexual minority because It, uh, it
• 21:38
  Speaker 5: helped me feel special. You know, I'm like, you know,
• 21:41
  Speaker 5: this white kid from Boise at like a public university.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: I'm like, there's nothing special about me. Well, like now
• 21:48
  Speaker 5: I have a, I have like an in, you know,
• 21:50
  Speaker 5: it's a.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: You have like a superpower. You have some sort of superpower.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Cause you're like a sexual minority.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: So that was, that was me. I definitely got something
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: out of that.
• 22:00
  Speaker 5: And, uh, Jim looked at me very patiently and well,
• 22:05
  Speaker 5: I also told him I'm going to help the church.
• 22:08
  Speaker 5: I'm going to speak on this. I'm going to help
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: the church take care of singles better, which, amen, that's
• 22:12
  Speaker 5: a good thing. And I appreciate when Side B talks
• 22:13
  Speaker 5: about the church taking care of singles. I just don't
• 22:16
  Speaker 5: think that's being. Yeah, I think that's a good aspect.
• 22:19
  Speaker 5: But I told him I'm.
• 22:20
  Speaker 4: Going to I'm going to do this as a gay Christian.
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: And Jim just said, you know, Spencer, do you think
• 22:26
  Speaker 5: that might be writing the story a little too soon?
• 22:30
  Speaker 5: A book written a little too soon. And I was like, no, Jim, no,
• 22:35
  Speaker 5: it's not. You're old and don't know what you're talking about.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And so what else did he say to you?
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: So he just kept pressing the subject gently and we
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: stayed till Starbucks closed and went to his hotel lobby.
• 22:50
  Speaker 5: So it was like a five hour conversation. But by
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: the end of it and throughout, I knew, I knew
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: that something wasn't right about the way I was identifying.
• 23:00
  Speaker 5: Like it never fully sat right with me. to identify
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: that way. So finally, I think I admitted to him.
• 23:07
  Speaker 5: I was like, Hey Jim, I would appreciate meeting up,
• 23:10
  Speaker 5: you know, doing some online meetings and just hearing more
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: from you and being open handed with God about this
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: aspect of my identity and life and sexuality to say like, Lord,
• 23:21
  Speaker 5: would I actually want to not, um, always be so
• 23:26
  Speaker 5: passionately erotically drawn towards other guys, other brothers, like, um,
• 23:33
  Speaker 5: do I actually want to be free from this or
• 23:35
  Speaker 5: am I getting something out of the fact that I
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: have these desires still? Cause it's a little scary to
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: be like, I never, I never experienced opposite sex attraction before.
• 23:44
  Speaker 5: So I felt like if I let go of this,
• 23:47
  Speaker 5: then there would be nothing. I would have no sexuality
• 23:51
  Speaker 5: while still having, you know, a drive and everything. And
• 23:55
  Speaker 5: that just was super intimidating to, to let go like that.
• 23:59
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And so at what point did you realize that
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: you needed to let go of side B theology?
• 24:11
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: At that point I realized I needed to let go,
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: but it was a process of years of just, um,
• 24:17
  Speaker 5: meeting with Jim, meeting with a group of guys that
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: were also working through this, um, you know, led by Jim,
• 24:23
  Speaker 5: where I started to understand more and more the roots
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: of same sex attraction, that these feelings, I like, uh,
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: the way, um, yeah, Nicolosi senior and junior, I think
• 24:35
  Speaker 5: probably put it about it being a state versus a trait. Like,
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: like my same sex attraction is like a mode of
• 24:42
  Speaker 5: operating where when I'm in a state of feeling insecure
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: about myself compared to another man whose masculinity I feel
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: inadequate compared to, and I'm envying them, I'm feeling insecure
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: and a need for, for good attention, affection, affirmation, and
• 24:58
  Speaker 5: connection with that guy.
• 24:59
  Speaker 4: That's a good need.
• 25:01
  Speaker 5: Um, So there's the root needs behind same-sex attraction, but
• 25:05
  Speaker 5: there's also the root sins, which envy, I would say,
• 25:09
  Speaker 5: would be the most often largest one, both biblically and
• 25:12
  Speaker 5: psychologically speaking.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: It's like that envy is insane.
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: So the more that I understood what was happening, I
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: think the insight was the first step to growing out.
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Of it more and more.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: Because when I felt the attraction, I used to think, oh,
• 25:32
  Speaker 5: I'm feeling this intense pull towards another man. Am I gay?
• 25:37
  Speaker 5: Is this just something I have to white knuckle and
• 25:40
  Speaker 5: hang on until heaven? Will this always be so conflicting
• 25:45
  Speaker 5: in my soul when I'm trying to have normal, natural, authentic,
• 25:48
  Speaker 5: brotherly relationships with guys that I admire in some way,
• 25:53
  Speaker 5: physically or in their personality? Will that always be so complicated?
• 25:58
  Speaker 5: And that's how I used to feel when I would
• 26:02
  Speaker 5: feel the attraction. But the insight, particularly about envy, really
• 26:06
  Speaker 5: helped where I was able to understand.
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: Hey, let.
• 26:11
  Speaker 5: Me pause for a second and see, is there anything
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: about them right now that I am jealous of in
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: some way? And I need to just go before God
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: and say, Lord, you know what? I'm thankful for.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: How you made me.
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: You not only have made them a gift to the
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: world with these good traits that they have that I'm
• 26:29
  Speaker 5: jealous of, but you've made me a gift. through different
• 26:32
  Speaker 5: traits that I have. And as you built into me
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: and most importantly, through your Holy spirit, working through those
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: traits that I have. Um, so I don't need to
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: envy this from a guy. And once I get there
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: in the feeling of attraction, um, to that place of contentment,
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: it's like the attraction just, just, you know, lowers down
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: to the point where like I ended up forgetting about it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: Praise God. It's like that eroticized envy. And, um, That's
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: the same thing.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: When a.
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: Person is experiencing that kind of eroticized envy, it's like
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: what they're really desiring, I've talked about this before on
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: the show, what they're really desiring is intimacy. And as
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you said, affirmation. And who better to go to than
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: our heavenly father for that intimacy and affirmation, you know?
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: So it's like, if you kind of direct, if you
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: redirect everything towards, towards God and towards, you know, Jesus
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: and the Holy spirit, that, as you said, that kind
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: of like that feeling, that urge like dissipates, it's a,
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: it's a really interesting phenomenon. Was there ever, um, just
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: kind of backtracking a little bit. Was there ever a
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: time where, um, you were like, I'm just going to
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: scrap this whole Christianity thing. And I'm going to just
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: like be gay. I'm just going to pursue this life.
• 28:03
  Speaker 4: And I don't care.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: I don't care about God anymore. Like I'm just going
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: to pursue this.
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: I thought about it a lot.
• 28:10
  Speaker 5: Like those college years before I met Jim, I had
• 28:14
  Speaker 5: so many, so many nights where I would stay up.
• 28:17
  Speaker 5: It was always like midnight or two in the morning
• 28:19
  Speaker 5: or something. And I would think, Oh, did I just
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: download an app right now? Or should I move to
• 28:25
  Speaker 5: San Francisco and go crazy?
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: Or, Oh my gosh.
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: Praise God you did not do that.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah. No, for real.
• 28:34
  Speaker 5: Like I was just there for the first time last
• 28:36
  Speaker 5: week filming a music video and it was surreal to
• 28:40
  Speaker 5: be there and realize, wow, the last 10 years could
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: have gone so different if Jesus didn't prove himself to
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: me and show me that there's a way out of this.
• 28:49
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: If Jesus didn't intervene in your life. Um, and so, um,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Where are you now in terms of all of this?
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Do you want to eventually get married to a woman?
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: What are you thinking in terms of your future?
• 29:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that part is wild as well.
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: Okay, two years ago, so this was quite a ways
• 29:15
  Speaker 5: through the process with Jim, letting go of a gay identity,
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: understanding the roots, and growing through addressing those root needs
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: and root sins as well, through healthy relationships, like I
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: found more brotherhood. God not only helped me connect with
• 29:32
  Speaker 5: him to receive my affirmation, affection, and attention, but would
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: also put brothers in my life that I could connect
• 29:40
  Speaker 5: with that way as well and really learn to do
• 29:42
  Speaker 5: that in an embodied way with other men. So that
• 29:46
  Speaker 5: was resolving more and more in my life, where the
• 29:49
  Speaker 5: attractions were getting less intense on average and happening less
• 29:53
  Speaker 5: often on average as well.
• 29:56
  Speaker 4: And in about 2024, I remember.
• 29:59
  Speaker 5: This was interesting. So I was reading a book. It
• 30:01
  Speaker 5: was actually case stories of reparative therapy. I was reading
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: it on vacation in Hawaii with my bandmates here from
• 30:11
  Speaker 5: Upside Down Kingdoms, a group I'm part of. They were
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: both there with their wives. So it was very romantic.
• 30:19
  Speaker 5: Except for me, I was fifth wheeling with everyone out there.
• 30:23
  Speaker 5: Reading through this book, I knew I'd have a lot
• 30:24
  Speaker 5: of alone time and be very tempted to feel lonely
• 30:28
  Speaker 5: or discontent Um, so I was reading through the case
• 30:32
  Speaker 5: stories book and I wasn't just reading it when, when
• 30:36
  Speaker 5: a concept would arrive in the book and trigger a
• 30:39
  Speaker 5: thought like, Oh, I relate to that.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: That makes a lot of sense.
• 30:42
  Speaker 5: I would stop and I would talk to God about
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: it and I would pray through whatever, um, you know,
• 30:48
  Speaker 5: conflict in my soul would arise as I read kind
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: of these stories of guys working through SSA.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Um, so fast forward to.
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: The end of the day, is this a, is this
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: a Nick Pelosi book?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: Joseph Nicholas. Yeah.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Junior or senior?
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: Senior.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:06
  Speaker 8: It's old.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: It's from the early 90s. This one's from the early 90s. Okay.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: So go ahead.
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: It's fascinating.
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: So I was reading this book and I'm praying. I'm
• 31:15
  Speaker 5: talking to God about it. And then we arrive at this.
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: I head out with the guys and their wives to
• 31:22
  Speaker 5: this very romantic resort area. And we're all hanging out, fellowshipping.
• 31:27
  Speaker 5: And they both looked at me and said, hey, Spencer,
• 31:30
  Speaker 5: we really believe that you're going to be here with
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: a wife one day. We just think that's true. And
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: I say, ah, you know what? Maybe I wouldn't be surprised.
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: I think I might agree with you guys. I was
• 31:42
  Speaker 5: like open to the possibility.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
• 31:45
  Speaker 5: And then I went back to my hotel room. And
• 31:49
  Speaker 5: I remember it was the first time in my life
• 31:51
  Speaker 5: where I truly thought about from a pure place what
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: it would be like to have intimacy with the wife
• 31:58
  Speaker 5: in a self-giving way where I was like, not focused
• 32:01
  Speaker 5: on my own performance, not focused on me, um, but
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: only focused on her. And when I, when I went there,
• 32:11
  Speaker 5: like for the first time in my life, I started like,
• 32:13
  Speaker 5: I was having very serious heterosexual attraction that was occurring.
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I'm like, it was that even real? Did that even
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: just happen?
• 32:22
  Speaker 5: So I, uh, I went, uh, Like, yeah, I went
• 32:28
  Speaker 5: back to, to my room and was like thinking, I
• 32:32
  Speaker 5: thought about it again. Cause I wondered if it was
• 32:33
  Speaker 5: a fluke. And then I realized like, I need to
• 32:36
  Speaker 5: stop thinking about this.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: That's funny.
• 32:40
  Speaker 5: Cause it's going to turn, it's going to turn into
• 32:42
  Speaker 5: lust here. Like it wasn't, it wasn't lost at that
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: point because like lust is like a taking thing versus
• 32:46
  Speaker 5: a giving thing. I was thinking about, um, in a
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: way that I never had, like, like a 13 year
• 32:51
  Speaker 5: old boy would during puberty, um, hopefully if they're coming
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: from a pure place and they haven't had like experiences
• 32:56
  Speaker 5: that tainted their view of sexuality, but like if a
• 33:00
  Speaker 5: boy was genuinely innocently saying or thinking to himself, wow, like, um,
• 33:07
  Speaker 5: women are, are, are amazing. And I, I want to discover, um,
• 33:11
  Speaker 5: this mysterious other. And I want to be, I want
• 33:14
  Speaker 5: to give to her, like, I want to find a
• 33:17
  Speaker 5: wife like my parents and I want to, um, serve
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: her well in marriage.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: Um, yeah.
• 33:23
  Speaker 5: So when I thought about that, it was insane how
• 33:27
  Speaker 5: natural my body responded, just blew my mind. So then
• 33:30
  Speaker 5: I realized maybe I could try dating.
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 7: I did.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:37
  Speaker 4: I had a relationship that year and it was crazy.
• 33:41
  Speaker 5: Like I was able to, um, like really feel like
• 33:46
  Speaker 5: authentic and at times intense opposite sex attraction. Um, while
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: still working through aspects of same-sex attraction at the same time,
• 33:55
  Speaker 5: that doesn't disqualify. This is all a process. I really
• 34:01
  Speaker 5: believe that the heart of all of this, of same-sex attraction,
• 34:06
  Speaker 5: opposite-sex attraction, sexuality in general, it's all about how we
• 34:10
  Speaker 5: relate to other people and sexual attraction flows from relationship,
• 34:15
  Speaker 5: how we see ourselves and how we see them and
• 34:18
  Speaker 5: where we fit.
• 34:18
  Speaker 4: It makes sense that the more I was feeling like
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: a brother to other.
• 34:26
  Speaker 5: Men and not like they're so different from me and
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: I need them in a sexual way. It was opening
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: up the space in my mind and my heart to
• 34:37
  Speaker 5: appreciate femininity finally in a way where I felt it
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: contrasting with my own masculinity. And really actually feeling that
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: contrast in relationship started to do things in me that
• 34:51
  Speaker 5: I didn't think was... really possible. I'd heard that it
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: was possible. Like Jim had told me, but you know,
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: I was like, is that really true?
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Wow. So you, you, so, and then that, that relationship ended.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Is that what happened?
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: That one.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: You're like, okay, let's not talk about that.
• 35:13
  Speaker 5: No, it's part of the, it's part of the process,
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: you know, like I think for anyone out there that
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: is in a similar situation, like it's about getting out
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: there and genuinely, uh, doing everything in your ability to,
• 35:25
  Speaker 5: to love a woman. Well, that's if, um, if you're
• 35:29
  Speaker 5: at a point where God essentially clears you in good
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: conscience to date a woman, like you're not just.
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: Saying, let me date her to fix my same sex attraction.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: It's like, don't do that.
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: That's not what I was doing to like fix you.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: But it was genuinely very beautiful. Um, yeah.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: And so do you, is there, uh, at the moment,
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: is there anyone else like on the horizon or like,
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: are you just kind of what, what's going on right now?
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: I'm open.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: I'm open.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: So if you know anyone, you heard it here, ladies,
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: you heard it here.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: So that's amazing.
• 36:11
  Speaker 8: I'm, I.
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: Mean, I, I'm so just, I love God's mercy on
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: your life. The fact that you didn't pursue your, like
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: actually be, you know, being a gay man and like
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: living that life. Like that is such a mercy from God. And, um,
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: as I've said on the show many times, like if
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I could go back in time, I would like not,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: I would be like you, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: pursued that life. Um, I talk about it in my
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: new book that's coming out. Like I talk about how,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: you know, uh, I mean, there's so much I talk about,
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: about this, but like, I, if my parents had sat
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: me down and I mean, they didn't know, they didn't really,
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: my dad didn't know how to really talk about this issue.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: And my mother probably didn't really either, but let's say
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: that they did. Um, it would have been really cool.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: I wish I had been more open with them as
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: a young, like in college or after right after college,
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: I wish I'd been more open with them about this
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: issue and communicated more like, Hey, I, I'm dealing with this.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: And you know, I, uh, I'm not sure like if
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: I really want to do this and, you know, and I,
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I really wish my parents had sat me down and said, Hey,
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: you know, this is this life that you're about to
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: embark on is a life of destruction and it's only
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: going to lead to pain and sorrow and destruction and, um,
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: and ultimate, ultimate destruction, like real destruction, um, for eternity.
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: And so, if they had just sat me down and,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: and kind of worked through it with me, I don't know.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: I just look back. I just think about like, what
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: if that had happened? And I just didn't pursue that
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: life because I have to say as much as like,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: you know, I had quote unquote good times during that,
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: during that life. And I had these relationships. I also,
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: it was also very painful. It was also very, um,
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: like I have emotional scars from all of it. And it's,
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: and it was never as, as much as I thought
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: these relationships were love, it was never love. It was
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: a counterfeit love because it wasn't aligned with God, with
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: God's design. So it was never a righteous love. It
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: was never real. It was like a false love. And
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: so anyway, I, I, I'm just, so thankful to God
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: that he spared, he spared you of that life. Cause
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: it really is. It's like, so, and I know a
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: lot of people who may be watching this, uh, there,
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: they might be saying, you know, people who are living
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: that life might be saying, Oh no, I'm so happy.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: I'm happy. Like, I'm just like, give it time, just
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: give it time and you'll see.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Um, they don't seem happy in my comment sections.
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: Oh, you get a lot of hate comments.
• 39:19
  Speaker 4: The hate, hate comments.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 8: Um, yeah.
• 39:24
  Speaker 5: Um, but to your point though, about your, um, the
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: same with your, your family, like, yeah i do think
• 39:31
  Speaker 5: that's such a gift and i want to make sure
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: i honor my parents well i i don't remember what
• 39:34
  Speaker 5: i said before but they're both just incredible parents both
• 39:37
  Speaker 5: marriage and family counselors my dad's a psychologist and um
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: if i had known to open up about this earlier
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: then they would have but we all just kept missing
• 39:48
  Speaker 5: each other on this subject.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:53
  Speaker 8: Yeah.
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: Um, so anyway, this, this is a good note to parents.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Like I think it's, it's really, and, and again, I, I,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: I describe it in detail how to, in my new book,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: how to, uh, which is not coming out till next year, but, um,
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: how to kind of like navigate this with your kids
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: and how to sit down with them and take them
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: through all the pitfalls of that life. And, um, and,
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: and I, in my book, I, I illustrate what those
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: pitfalls are from my own life.
• 40:24
  Speaker 8: Anyway.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: So, and so let's move on to you are a
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: singer songwriter, right?
• 40:34
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: How did you get into that? And how long have you,
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: how long have you been doing that?
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: I've been doing it about six years now professionally. And
• 40:44
  Speaker 5: I got into it because when I was in college,
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: I was trying to be a, physician assistant, but I
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: was never that passionate about that. And so then I,
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: I was passionate about ministry, like helping in my youth
• 40:57
  Speaker 5: group at church and like leading campus ministry at Boise state. Um,
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: so I did an internship at my church for a
• 41:04
  Speaker 5: year after college got to.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: The end of that.
• 41:07
  Speaker 5: And then none of us, the pastors or me had
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: a sense that, um, God was calling me to full-time
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: ministry at that point. So I, I told God like, Hey, um,
• 41:18
  Speaker 5: Music seems irresponsible because that's what everyone tells you, but
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: it's the one thing that I care about that I
• 41:23
  Speaker 5: haven't tried to do professionally. So I'm just going to
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: go for it and stop me if you want me
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: to change directions. And then he just kept opening the doors,
• 41:32
  Speaker 5: introducing me to Curtis, who was already a full-time artist
• 41:35
  Speaker 5: at that point, and helped me know that I had
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: what it took.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: If I just learned the skills I.
• 41:40
  Speaker 5: Needed to learn, you had to take that next step.
• 41:45
  Speaker 5: So yeah, I've been doing that for about the six
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: or the last six years recording.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: And what genres of music, what genres do you do?
• 41:54
  Speaker 7: Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 5: So I'm like alternative Christian R and B, but also
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: some rap, some folk kind of swing around a little bit.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: And by the way, I mean, I've watched, I've, I've
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: watched some of your videos and your music videos and are,
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: and I've listened to a lot of your songs and
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: you're extremely talented. And so what, If you would, I
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: would love for you to sing us a song to
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: sing us out of the episode.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: I'm down. I'm down.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: All right, let's do it.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: Let me find my guitar here.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 42:29
  Speaker 5: Let's see if people can hear me okay here. This
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: song I wrote really about, I really wrote it about
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: how it feels to feel like you're giving up everything
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: to follow Jesus.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: Cause that's what Jesus calls us to do.
• 42:45
  Speaker 5: Um, but how, when we give everything up to him
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: and we're totally open-handed with where he's calling us, where
• 42:52
  Speaker 5: he's taking us, then like, he always makes it worth
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: it because he gave so much more up for us
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: than we ever could by literally dying for us.
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: Um, so yeah, this is just a song about that.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Nice.
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: No, the course is like, um, See.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Oh, what a joy it is to give my whole
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: life away for this.
• 43:19
  Speaker 7: If I had nothing else, nothing left I'd miss.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: No greater love than this. God, I'd love to die
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: giving life up for his friends. Oh, spirit, fill me up,
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: fill me up again. Take all that I'm holding.
• 43:41
  Speaker 7: Take me where you're going now Cause.
• 43:45
  Speaker 8: I need it All this pain I felt Drawn from
• 43:52
  Speaker 8: myself I need a deeper well Oh.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: Say oh what a joy it is Give my whole
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: life away.
• 44:10
  Speaker 7: I had nothing else. Nothing left I'd miss.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: No greater love than this.
• 44:18
  Speaker 7: I'd have loved to die, giving life for his friends.
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: Spirit, fill me up.
• 44:25
  Speaker 7: Fill me up again. Oh, fill me up again. Fill
• 44:35
  Speaker 7: me up. Amazing.
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Now, where can people, where can people find your music?
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: Find me on Spotify, Instagram, um, anywhere, all streaming platforms, YouTube.
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: And it's just under your name.
• 44:59
  Speaker 7: Uh, yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: Spencer Bolio under my name.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Spell your last name. B O L I O U.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: Yes. Yes. Bolio.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Bolio.
• 45:12
  Speaker 7: All right.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: Well, that was great. And yeah, guys, check out his music.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: It's amazing and very uplifting. And I like the hip
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: hop stuff, too. Thank you so much for coming on
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: the show, Spencer, and sharing your story. I appreciate it.
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: Hey, thank you so much for having me, man. Like,
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: huge blessing for me.
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: Wait, don't touch that dial. Please like and subscribe. And also,
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: please consider becoming a patron on Patreon. For as little
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: as $ 5 a month, you can really help us out
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: on the show. The link is below. And we so,
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: so appreciate it. Thank you.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Beckett
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: Cook Show. Your support makes this content possible. All episodes
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: of The Beckett Cook Show are also available on YouTube.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: For more information about Beckett and his ministry,