Latest / Nurtural Disasters / The Gaslighting of Kathy Bates
Transcript
- Ken: Welcome to Nurtural Disasters with Ken and Lisa. Hey Lisa! Lisa: Hello and welcome to Nurtural Disasters. This is a podcast for those of us with toxic or emotionally immature parents. might not have a bunch of credentials next to our names, but we do have PhDs from the Hard Knocks University. Basically, want this to be a validating space for adult children of parents who had no business having children. Hey Ken. Ken: you know how we don't wanna talk about celebrity news? Well, this one's not really like a celebrity news. I just find it interesting when really famous also have problems with their Lisa: Yeah, clip that's been viral online. It's funny, sent it to me and you said, have you seen this? And I'm like, because I had seen it. And was very surprised. It's Kathy ⁓ she's the Academy Award. Ken: Mm-hmm. Lisa: and She's giving her this long speech. I want to thank this person. This, I want to thank my mom. I want to thank this. cuts to like years later, maybe decades later. she's being interviewed and they ask her about the speech and she's like, I wish I had thanked my mother and my mother gave me a lot of grief for it and this. And the interview actually tells her you did. And she goes, Ken: Mm-hmm. Lisa: I did? And shows it to her. you can see that she has this emotional reaction because she realizes her mom guilted her. And it of opened this discussion about gaslighting. and I'm so glad ⁓ comments, people were spot on about, this is gaslighting? And this is exactly what narcissistic parents do. And the fact that people have this knowledge, shit, it's so powerful to me. gaslighting has affected me a lot. I was gaslighted to hell when I was growing up. And when you sent it to me, I was like, yes, ⁓ yes, I thank you that because I had dissected it, but me what you think and was your reaction? Ken: Yeah, so the background is, I've been watching Kathy Bates for years. She's been in a lot of movies and I really enjoy her as an actress and she's recently been on the show called Matlock, which is kind of like a new spin on the classic show. Lisa: Yes, I love that show! She's great! I love- yes! Ken: Yes. thing is, I remember one of the first movies I ever watched with Kathy Bates that I really loved her in is she played that socialite in Titanic. And I think like after that, after I became like an adult, like I will look up Kathy Bates movie. And the thing is, like, you go deep, it was like, what was Kathy Bates known for? And of course it was 1991, she had a movie called Misery. that she was nominated for Oscar for. I think it was with... Lisa: It's Stephen King. It's a Stephen King novel. Ken: Yeah, Steve, I think it was her and I think it was James Caan So anybody that have not watched that movie, it's pretty much a crazy fan of this writer. And he ends up there and she's obsessed with him, just obsessed with the story as well. And she pretty much keeps him captive there to write the story while she's keeping posts on him. So it's a very... Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: really kind of a psychological thriller and you could really see what when fandom kind goes too far. ⁓ Lisa: It's like Stan, like the Eminem music video, Stan? Yes! Ken: Yeah, it's that obsession of the fandom. That's why they call it a fanatic. So this is epitome of that. I felt like her performance in that just showing off like her range of having someone that's very deeply troubled, but also admiring someone, but also being very angry at them at the same time for not giving her what she wants. she was nominated for best actress in that movie in 91. The clip that I show you was during a of like a press junket for Matlock. did it on CBS Sunday mornings. It was a short little interview that she did and they were asking her about Matlock. then thing about the Oscars came up about that 91 Oscar ceremony where she gives that speech. Of course she ends up winning best actress. And so what Kathy Bates pretty says, quote, when I won the Oscars for misery, she said, I don't know what all the excitement is about. You didn't discover to cure for cancer. when she said that it was about her mom. So when she won the award, the mom was pretty much very dismissive of her winning the Oscars. Like, ⁓ you won the Oscars. Not like cure cancer. I don't know what the big deal is. By the way, as actress probably one of the hugest accomplishments you could have. There have been actresses and actors that have been great that have never held that trophy. That's how much of an honor it is to win an Oscar. That's confirmation that you, at least for one movie, you were absolutely magnificent. She continues on to the interview and she talks to the interviewer, oh, I forgot to thank her that night. So he's like, yes, you did. he plays back a clip maybe like a 10 to 15 second clip. And she goes, she thanks everybody. And she thanks her mom and then she thanks her dad. And then she said she thanks her dad, she has this weird look on her face and she's like, my God, I did thank her. She misremembered. So she pretty much, she cries. then ⁓ the interviewer like, how, why does that mean so much to you? And she's like, her life was supposed to be Like my mom is supposed to have my life. And when I watched it, was like, wow, that's... And it's hard. It's, a very hard clip to watch. if you read some of the comments, it really does seem that a lot of people do understand this kind of dynamic. It's, it's definitely more of a public kind of knowledge. People saw it for what it was. It was like, man, what did her mom say or do to her? to have someone that's the, the best actress at that time. to have the mothers pretty much discount everything she said, like everything she did in that movie, everything she said acceptance speech. And you just look at it, was like, man, her mom did a number on her. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Guess what's interesting? I just looked it up. this movie was directed Rob Reiner. considering what just happened recently with his... that is crazy Ken: Yeah, a lot of things just kind of like intermeshed together. ⁓ you know what that her mom said that I don't know what the big deal is. You didn't discover the Kierke cancer. It was ⁓ I couldn't find ⁓ concrete information, but did hear that her mom did pass away from cancer, ironically, right. ⁓ And I think think Kathy herself was fighting through ovarian cancer for quite a while. Lisa: No way. my god. Ken: But thing is, remember, this is a conversation we had like a couple ago. Remember it was like the thing about Abraham Lincoln? you could be president, right? What's the big deal? It's not like you're God. It's kind of like that. It's like, at what point do the goal posts stop moving for your parents? Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for narcissistic parents, nothing is ever good enough. I mean, yeah, exactly. You were saying. can't- President- Ken: because Yeah, and if you look into it, her mom passed away in 97? What I found that was very interesting, even Cathy has stated this, like her mom had her when she was 48. she was a late like oopsie baby. We talked about oopsie babies before, she was actually an oopsie baby. Lisa: ⁓ that's late for especially back then. Ken: And I also think, especially for woman that's late, but just thinking how old school is their mother? And know, ⁓ especially my situation, my dad had me when he was in his early ⁓ 40s. a parent, you're just not very engaged anymore at that point. Like, even if you had kids before, you don't treat the oopsie baby the same way anymore, because you're in your ⁓ 40s. not taking your kid out for like, Lisa: Yeah, ⁓ yeah. Ken: rides on a bike or something like that and throwing a football. I'm thinking that's probably what happened. just, ⁓ man, how you look at your daughter who has that much talent and that's the thing you say to her when she wins the Oscars. That's just, this is just batshit insane. Totally dismissive. Lisa: Mm-hmm. You know, we were talking about this earlier, narcissistic parents, they will compete with you. Their own children. I mean, to the average person, they can't even fathom, like, why would I compete with my own child? I want them to surpass me. I want them to do better than I did. see own children as competition. Like, they just, ⁓ unless you've it, you don't understand it. Ken: Yeah, the main problems comes when the kid actually does surpass the parent and that's when it goes really bad. Lisa: They're your- like the- what the kids say? They're your biggest op. If you have a narcissistic parent, yup. Ken: Yeah, yeah. And you know the sad part is? You see it and it's like, ⁓ you can see Kathy Bates as kind of like the archetype of that kid that had a narcissistic parent, right? You hold that trophy, it's like, I finally got it. My mom's gonna finally really glad about this and be proud of me. Nope, she didn't get that. She's like, like you're doctor curing cancer. Lisa: ⁓ absolutely. Ken: upset me more than anything you could think of because it just reminds me of my situation with my dad. And I'm pretty sure you had situations with your mom that's like that. what do I have to do in order for you to be proud of me and give me a kudos? Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: I'm not winning an Oscar. mean, ⁓ Lisa, probably not winning an Oscar even with your British accent, but it's, but it's hey. ⁓ Lisa: What are you saying? ⁓ my god, that hurts my feelings. What? Ken: We haven't brought back the British accent in quite a while. It's been a long time. Lisa: Well, I have to bring it back so can win my Oscar. I mean, I could be the Kathy Bates, you know? No, I don't think I'll ever be as good as her, but she's phenomenal. yeah. Ken: She didn't have a British accent in Titanic, did she? I don't think so, but you know. Lisa: No, no, no, but she did like have like kind of like a it was an accident, but she's like know like a high society woman where it's kind of pretty like uppity ⁓ Ken: You know what it is? Yeah, she had that transatlantic speaking style that was very popular with people. It's kind of like... people, especially actresses in the 40s and 50s, had that very... It doesn't sound like British English, but it's obviously not very American English either. It sounds very different. Lisa: Yeah, well it's like is this the first class version? Is this the first class? Ken: It's like, it's a thing, they call it the transatlantic thing. I could ask my fiance, she's really interested in that. So it's like, okay, it's very interesting when people have, that's how actors and sounded like, especially in golden age Hollywood. So I always find it interesting. Lisa: Okay. Yeah Yeah I know I know you're about cuz like even when you hear ⁓ Marilyn Monroe and you watch those movies from back in the 50s and 60s It's like did she really sound like that? It would everybody everybody spoke that way that for ⁓ Titanic Kathy Bate her character and Titanic was like She was very status-conscious very snobby ⁓ and remember like Kate Winslet being like, mother you're gonna get a nosebleed and everyone in the theater was like, I was, you know, was pretty young. It was 97, right? So was, oh yeah, I was a little girl, but I could hear the audible gasp. But it's just like, no, it's this thingy gonna be first class. there gonna be, is this supposed to be women and children? But this be first class. Like, was like, calm down. It's fucking sinking. But you know, Ken: Mm-hmm. Ay, ay, ay, ay, you know Kathy Bates wasn't the mother, right? Lisa: She was not the mom? What was she? Ken: No, no, no, she was the socialite that was very okay with just how other people were. Like she was the socialite. think she... You're thinking... Yeah. You're thinking the mother. I don't remember... Lisa: ⁓ my god i'm confusing her ⁓ my god i'm gonna cut this out ⁓ my god ⁓ my god i'm gonna cut this out i'm- i'm- i'm confusing- ⁓ my god i'm gonna cut this- so embarrassing and it's- and it's fucked up because i've seen this movie so many fucking times so for me to- i do miss- it's been- it's been like- literally it's been decades since i've seen it but i've seen it mo- ⁓ my god Ken: You misremembered, but you're- You misremember because you pulled a Kathy Bates. Like, Kathy Bates literally thanked her mother during that interview and did not realize it. Lisa: No, I'm not. Yeah. Ken: She plays Molly Brown, a kind-hearted, new-money socialite. And because she's new money, she doesn't look down on poor people. Lisa: Ugh. Okay. Ken: Social Life who befriends Jack and later other Lifeboat 6 survivors. Lisa: Whatever. I Kathy Bates is great. I did one acting class once like years ago. It was just fun. And I remember it my to go ⁓ and I was so nervous and you have to do this ⁓ and forth. there's no direction like... do it this way, do it that way, and I did it. And right before, like the day before, I got into a huge fight with my brother, and I said, why, and then it just kept going back. I felt like, not interrogated, but it kept to the point where I just literally just started bawling, and I was crying, I was tearing-eyed, and everyone in the class got really quiet. the instructor was like... ⁓ it was the end of my scene and he was saying, know, all of my clients, because he was a manager, it's all of my clients, the reason they're really good is because they're broken people. And I was like, okay, great, I'm a broken person. ⁓ And he me, he's you're dangerous and people like in the class were saying. my God, that was intense. Like everyone else up to them was like, you kind of playing along, but ⁓ for it was real. And I wonder actors who are, can reach that vulnerability because I felt super vulnerable at the time, but it just came out. Cause I had just been stuffing this feeling and it just came out and I just, at that time, I don't know why. ⁓ and actors who can just reach that level of vulnerability and for him to say it's because they're broken, you know? And I can see that with Kathy Bates, with her mom being a narcissist and being constantly pushed and never being good enough. I can see where she can just so easily tap into those emotions. ⁓ because it's right there and you always have to suppress it when you have a narcissistic parent because your are always subjugated. And acting probably her a chance to express it and let it out and it'd be super cathartic in my opinion. ⁓ And I that's what makes her such an amazing actress. Ken: Yeah, it's truly feeding upon that, that pain that you have when you're acting, you're taking, always say as an acting technique is to take whatever kind of past history you've had ⁓ try to put into the scene. In terms yeah, and I, yeah, yeah, even method acting. Yeah. So what I Lisa: Yeah. Method acting. Ken: always hear about is that stand-up comedians are usually the most broken people. ⁓ There are people that somehow find humor in anything and everything and lot of the times it's because they've lived hard lives or of like emotionally rough lives and just kind of had trauma and they somehow it's like perverse where Lisa: Yes, they are. Ken: the more you suffer in your life, it makes for a stand-up comedian. Even not even just a stand-up comedian or actor, even a musician. It's insane that how that is. It's just that pain that you feel turns into art. ⁓ And ⁓ I think really something that... Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: The more trials and tribulation you have, it just makes it for someone to make incredible art out Lisa: Yes, and you know when you were talking about comedians, there's a saying, not... Yes, are, ⁓ a of them are depressed, ⁓ but like, don't ask me if I'm depressed. actually my parents were the ones who were depressed so they that skill even yeah even lisa limpinelli i remember years ago when she was being interviewed and other comedians have basically confirmed it it's like their parents were depressed ⁓ so they like the court jester of the family as a way to alleviate the feeling Ken: yeah, it's also a coping mechanism too. I think that's why we joke around with each other so much, Lisa. It's like a coping mechanism. It's people that are sometimes just kind of like just pointlessly like humorous or funny is just... I really think it's it's like for people that have gone trauma and something like that and just had ⁓ hard moments in their life. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yep. Ken: Sometimes you just want a lighthearted moment. just feel like people that are comedians really want that for other people. It's a, they find joy that what they have to say ⁓ someone finds funny that it actually makes, cause the idea that making someone laugh, a huge thing. That's a huge accomplishment to be able to make someone laugh and be feel entertained. And I feel comedians is Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: They have a skill for that. And it's also their kind of coping mechanism. So when they go on stage after years of like honing their craft, just getting the perfect standup routine, dealing with hecklers, to put the perfect joke and then try testing it over and over and over again. they're going up there and it's like therapy for them. I think some comedians have said it as such, you just go up there. Lisa: Mm-hmm Ken: Try to say something funny, to tell a story that has a nice punchline. And that's really a thing, especially with stand-up comedians that are like smaller stand-up comedians, they go to small clubs and you know, they're just working on their stuff. It just like, beats having a therapist. They'll probably get a therapist once they make it, right? They'll have money. Therapy's not cheap. Yeah, therapy's not cheap, so. Lisa: They can afford it. Ken: But until then, let's try to some stand-up. You ⁓ always hear about stand-up comedians either doing a lot of antidepressants or some sort of other illicit drugs or they're alcoholics. It's a plight of people that are broken, unfortunately. Lisa: It's... yeah. Yup. Yeah, funny ⁓ talk about hecklers. I their hecklers were their family. Ken: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Lisa: probably had their family as hecklers their entire life, but they continued. ⁓ by the time they get to the stage ⁓ there are you know, ⁓ there's some you know, those amateur comedians ⁓ and you them on amateur night ⁓ and they those hecklers like fucking professionals and you're like, ⁓ they've been doing this shit forever. And it's like, their parents were probably their very first hecklers. And then, you know, then they make it big because they just, everything just rolls off their back because they're just so fucking used to it. ⁓ You know, I can with Chris, rock being like that a lot of a lot of comedians know i read george carlin's book ⁓ so when will jesus the pork chops and you know his family fucked up was up you even even fucked up with his own daughter he even says it in his book but he was he was so brilliant ⁓ the most brilliant mind And he's my favorite comedian. stuff that was from the 70s, 80s, 90s, completely relevant nowadays. I mean, you could just quote him right now and be like, oh, that totally, that's words of wisdom. But you know, he a lot of drug issues and it'll send back to his fucked up parents, his fucked up family. You can always circle right back, like you were saying, Ken. Ken: Yeah, it's just, it's unfortunate, that's you find the most laughter is coming, growing out of like very broken people that have been broken down for years. But the thing is, it really is you more kind of callous or you grow calluses, right? you do something. things that used to offend you before that your parents say to you, it just becomes less and less after a while. And you're looking at it and people that are heckling you, that's like, my point. What this person is saying is not than what my mom or dad said to me, ⁓ which is sad, it's like, I'm geared for this. By the way, I hate hecklers. I don't know why someone would want to go to a comedy show. to try to mess up the comedian and try to be a comedian themselves. I hate it. Lisa: I know! Me Too! ⁓ Ken: Mm-hmm. Lisa: I totally agree you. Ken: Yeah, so there, yeah, I remember there was one time where I was on sunset and one of my buddies had an open mic night it was, it's, ⁓ I think it's in Silver Lake. I think it's called Los Globos. But yeah, I don't remember the name of it. ⁓ Globos? ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ so like, ⁓ yeah, so they would have open mic night every now and then. Lisa: The wolves? The wolves? Gloves. The balloons. Ken: He went up there, he's a musician, so musicians do what they do. And then there was another guy that walks up stage and we're all in a group of people and I've never met his friends before, right? So I'm like, ⁓ hey, what's up? And this standup comedian goes up and it's obviously like he's just starting out, right? It's open mic night, he goes up there and this girl sitting across the table from me that friend knows. is heckling him the whole time. And I'm like, I'm like so embarrassed, right? And you know what? at that point I was like a fan of standup comedians. I was like, what a hard job and what a great service you do to people just to have them have a fun night, right? It's a hard thing to be a standup comedian. Like you said, you just go up there, you're gonna bomb, but you go up there anyway. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: And you're going at it, it's like, I don't care. I don't care. If I bomb, I bomb. I just like, I have to have thick skin. And the thing is, she's heckling him, and I'm like, ⁓ are you doing? And you know what? I didn't do it. But a small part of my brain was like, I'm going to reach over and ⁓ hand her face. ⁓ what I was thinking the whole time. Lisa: Mmm. Ken: The second thing I thought I was going to do is I'm going to go up on stage and I'm really good. I'm really sharp with my comebacks. So I was like, I probably would have insulted her, her mom, her sexual background. I hate People pay a two drink minimum and cover charge to watch a standup comedian tell jokes, not to have some drunk man or woman. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: slur their way into ⁓ a witty comeback. Lisa: You know what I think what it is Ken, knowing you, like bullies. I know, I know. ⁓ Ken: I really don't. I really don't. I feel so bad for people when they get picked on and you know what? because there's also a point where I'm like, I was bullied myself. wasn't constant. definitely kids that have been bullied way worse than I was. So whenever I see someone just being picked on and like, you could tell they might be asking for like help. but not asking for help. It's like, have to step in, I can't. So if I see someone that, I just, can't stand by. just, it hurts me. It hurts me to even look at it. Lisa: Mm-hmm. get yeah, you have a lot of empathy so for to you know fact that you would step in ⁓ and point out the it says a lot about your character ⁓ Ken: Well, you for saying that, but ⁓ sometimes it's like, ⁓ don't want to get again, someone did say that empathy is a weakness. It is not. to me, it's like a superpower. It's- it's what gives you humanity. Some people don't have empathy. I was like, how do you find satisfaction in your life? Buy another car? go on another trip, you'll never feel satisfied. I feel like... Lisa: Well, was what did Elon Musk say that? Or was it Trump? Ken: See, I don't know. That's why a lot of the thing is, it's a lot of the people that are super wealthy. What's your end goal and what makes you happy? It's not as easy as it's not easy as question as they could answer. It doesn't seem like a lot of things make them happy. They're just not satisfied. That's why they always said like, ⁓ yeah, sometimes maybe like a peasant somewhere living or someone that's really poor living in India that has, you know what? I'm having fun. I'm with my friends. I don't know how I'm going to get my next meal. But it's just expectations different. Certain things that that person might get will make that person happy and ⁓ them satisfied. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Ken: And it's really like the more stuff you have, makes it harder to be satisfied. Lisa: You know, I see what you're saying. think lack of empathy makes you really good in the realm is business realm, right? You can climb up the corporate ladder so fucking fast, ⁓ Ken: Yes, yes, like success and things like that. Not only that, just be a, also be an influencer and stuff like that because you have to really shut off that part of your Lisa: ⁓ about it though, our parents did not have empathy. So they not develop that part of that connection. ⁓ if not with your own children, you're not connecting with your family members, you're not connecting with friends, ⁓ if you don't empathy, you're not having that close connection. Everything is just material, like you were saying. Okay, but what is life about? Life is is it all about money? Okay, if that's what your end goal is ⁓ If you can't be close to your own children, let's say you don't want children, family members, friends, if you don't have empathy, you're not gonna have that connection with people. So all your relationships are tenuous. Okay, then you have no relationships with people, but you have relationships with what's stuff. That's life for me, a life without empathy. It seems so empty. Ken: It does. me, having empathy is you of feel the joy pain of someone else. It doesn't even have to be a human. It could be an animal. It could be your pet. And you just have that. And some people say, it's like, ⁓ what a terrible thing to be crying over a death of like a family pet or something like that. And I always think What a privilege to feelings and be human. What a privilege. What a privilege to have a connection to someone, another being, and just be like, you know what, if ⁓ bad happened to this person, cat, dog, rabbit, I'm gonna feel really terrible. And you what? When you ⁓ when someone you love passes away? It is ⁓ ⁓ something that you're like, man, I really am going to miss that person. That person has compartment ⁓ your life. just something sometimes you never get back and you just, it ⁓ hurts. ⁓ that is actually, that's like a good type of hurt, I think, to ⁓ know that you have empathy and kind of have fallen in love with something and then the thing you love disappears and ⁓ not due to fall of your own or that other person. It just happens just as how life is. What wanna ask is, I'm not sure if you have a tidbit about this, Lisa, is do that have parents that are seemingly lack this kind of like empathy or kind of maybe stunt it in a certain way, have kids that are like fully empathetic towards others. Lisa: That is such a good question. is a really, really, really good question. And I don't know if it comes down to like temperament because they were never taught empathy, right? We talked about this in another episode where it was like, empathy needs to be taught to you, And both of your parents don't have empathy, how do you build that? How? Because it was not modeled for you. at the same time, ⁓ I'm if there's an innateness to because when I another person hurting, when another person cries, I can't help but cry. When I see animals hurting, ⁓ my I can't take it. was like, ⁓ no. I feel what they feel. another thing is like, ⁓ if you ⁓ a person ⁓ and you ⁓ it's contagious. ⁓ But if is a cluster B personality disorder, know, narcissism, psychopathy, sociopathy, whatever, when they see someone else yawn, they will not yawn. ⁓ I don't know if it's in innateness, but... It's just such a hard thing to... How do you develop that when it was never a model to you? Is it innate? I don't know. And I wish I had an answer for you. Honestly, I really do because... It's something that we probably should look into and maybe in the next episode we can talk about it. Because it seems like it would be a good topic of interest. Ken: Well, it's pretty much like the theme of our title, Nurture vs. Nature? Lisa: Yeah, exactly. Ken: somehow come other people in our lives that have maybe sometimes even ⁓ like another or another family member that maybe gives us like a pathway. It's like, yeah, empathy, feeling, emotion. You don't necessarily to get that all from your parents. That's why like socialization of children is so important, right? You might find it from a friend. Heck, you might find it from a friend's parent and you just realize dynamic is like, I don't understand that. you me more of that? Because I remember my god sister, her mom was like so sweet and I just, me and my will always think, how come our parents can't be like that? Lisa: Mmm, yup. Ken: And just that, there are parents that are out there, they're just like, wow, you're just a pleasure to be around that the kids are just here just to hang out with you. There are parents that are like that. don't, my well, not from me, they're not getting that from me. I ⁓ can't stand out with my dad anymore. ⁓ It's just, but just that it's out there and sometimes I feel this. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: really intense envy that my I have friends that man your parents seem really nice to be around and they're like yeah they are I'm like how's that like Lisa: Okay. I I could totally relate I just I don't You Dr. Ramani she said if your parent narcissist you were robbed ⁓ She said it was like fucking knife ⁓ through my heart. I was like, my god. My god ⁓ Ken: Mm-hmm. Okay, is it just me or have you ever tried this when you're growing up? Like you go over to friend's house and you meet their parents and you're like, you get a little kind of feel, you kind of see them for a while. So you know them a little bit and you're like, can you please adopt me? No, no, really adopt me. Don't you got parents? I was like, ⁓ no, they're, they're fine. I think they kidnapped me from somewhere. They're not my real parents. Lisa: No. Yeah. Ken: ⁓ here's here's here's a funny thing and sad thing at this at the same time. So a lot of that grow up from the motherland of like Asian countries, right? There is always this running story of how your it's kind of like the storks, the stork bait and the baby. How the stork delivers ⁓ a kid your door, your parents doorstep, and that's how babies come from. What Asian people do is usually they say, we were walking somewhere and we found you in a dumpster. You were a dumpster baby. Or you were somewhere and we picked you up. We thought you were cute. So we raised you as our own. And I don't know where that started. Maybe I'll research it one day, but that's always like a, like a kind of like a go-to story for like Asian parents. And I kid you not, I knew it was bull crap. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Mmm. Ken: As soon as like I got older and older, probably like pre teenage, I knew it was bull crap. I look like and dad. I'm pretty sure I'm their kid. ⁓ But ⁓ sad is there was a little part of me that really wanted my real parents to come back and save me. Lisa: ⁓ my god. It's... Ken: I'm like, my real parents are out there. Eventually they're gonna find me. Eventually they'll know that they accidentally left me somewhere and then my real parents will come by and then I can finally leave this place. they never came. Lisa: That's a real thing. That's very real because I was talking to a friend years ago. She's a co-worker, I, you know, we're friends now and she had a very difficult childhood, very difficult father, and she told me she said, growing up, I thought I'm going through is a test because I'm really a princess and Ken: Yeah! Lisa: If I go through enough challenges, then I will go back and be saved and go back to this magical kingdom where I'm the princess of this great family. And when she said that, actually forgotten I used think the same thing growing up, ⁓ where it's like, being put through all these challenges and tests because... I'm not really, what if I'm really just like a princess I deserve to be from loving, rich family? so weird to think about, I now know that's actually very common for people who come from really, ⁓ really difficult parents childhoods and families, ⁓ that they think, ⁓ someone's gonna come save me. and whatever it is. Ken: That's so sad to think, isn't it? Like ⁓ you're kind of looking for that savior. you know, as know, it's not true, but you want to hold onto that for some reason for that savior or for that moment. I just remember that there came a point where I looked in the mirror. I think I was a teenager. I looked in the mirror and I'm like. Lisa: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ken: I look just like mom and dad. I'm pretty sure I'm not adopted. It's just like that, that whole hope just fell apart. Like reality just set in and be like, well, not getting saved. I'm pretty sure this is it. And plus, and plus now we're like, oh, like happy birthday, Lisa. I noticed your birthday. It's a 25 part 16 or something like that. Or, know, somewhere like that. Lisa: No, no, no. ⁓ my god. ⁓ no. Ken: But happy birthday. your real parents will never find you. ⁓ Lisa: I've accepted it. Yeah. Ken: Some part of you just accepted it, like, man, I guess these are my real parents. Yippee! Lisa: Yeah, we're great. Look at me. Ken: It's okay, just think about it as I took one for the team with the team being the entire earth. I had these parents so none of you could have these parents. You owe me one. Lisa: Sure. Ken: That is a funny thought though, it's like, man I wish my real parents would show up right now. Bursts the door. Hello? Can we have Fred back? I'm like, who's Fred? Our little baby, we left him in the dumpster somewhere. he's named Ken now. ⁓ Ken? He's our little Fred. So it's like something that was like, it's like Tarzan really. It's like, I think I watched Tarzan when I was young. I was like, okay, this has to be a thing, right? My family's gonna find me once I become like adult and they'll be like, you're our son. I'm like, that never came. I never became Tarzan. I never found my ⁓ savior parents. ⁓ Lisa: Hmm. Yeah. It's like Anastasia too. Ken: Yeah? Yeah? That's unfortunate. This is so sad. It's just like, ⁓ man, it seems like other people have gone through the same story too. It's it's a very... That's how you know it didn't go right growing up. Lisa: Yeah ⁓ No, it... Yeah, and... We grew up being super fucking gas-lit too, which is unfortunate. Ken: I know. But you know what the perfect prank will be on us? Like if anybody listens to us, like anybody that knows us, they would hire like a couple, probably boomer age and be like, we lost our son at this time. We know you're our son or daughter and just go along with it for a while and just be like, ha ha, it's a gag. Like I'll be so mad, but got me brother. Lisa: What? Ken: No, no, no, like they hire actors to be our like real parents. Giving us that little sliver of chance. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Maybe. Ken: Yeah, I probably won't believe it too. I look exactly like my parents. Lisa: It's funny because that my cousin's ⁓ wedding a couple ⁓ ago in Mexico City. ⁓ my cousin's mom, she goes, ⁓ you look like your mom. And I go, ⁓ you can see the evilness in my face? And she goes, no, not what saying. And I'm like, she gets quiet and I go, ⁓ you can see the evilness in my face. Like I was just pushing and pushing. Because I don't know what her relationship is with my mom, but. was just... I don't give a fuck ⁓ this point. I didn't give a fuck. I'd had a few drinks. It was open bar. ⁓ was open bar, I'm not gonna lie. ⁓ it was a very nice wedding. And venue Mexico City. ⁓ my god. for her to say that, I think it maybe triggered something in me for her to say that. Because people tell me that I do look like her and I... Ken: Ha ha ha. Lisa: I do hate it and I will say that and sometimes like in the mirror and I do see her and I do not like it and it took me I hate I was so embarrassing that it took me a while to like admit that like yes I do have like some features of her And I do hate it. But when someone points it out, I don't like it. So like my natural reaction was to say, ⁓ I'm an evil person because I don't know how much she knows because she lives in a completely different state that's like south of Mexico City. So it's like two, three hours south of Mexico City in a different state. when said that, I said that in And also, I didn't really like her. Okay, fuck, maybe I should not say that because in case she's listening, like, ⁓ she doesn't speak English, fuck it. And ⁓ her son does. He's bilingual. But... I don't know. And then I found out that he stopped talking to her for a little bit because when she divorced, she left her dad. She left her dad for like another guy. And I was like, when I found out, ⁓ yeah, he just didn't talk to her. And I was like, ⁓ okay, good, good for me. And like, okay, I didn't know that. so, and she of me a bad vibe because she's the type of person that looks at you and he goes, ⁓ smiles. And soon as they look away, the smile like turns into a frown. Like you've seen Melania ⁓ video of like she's Donald looks back at Melania and she has this big smile on her big fake smile and as soon as he turns his head forward her smile turns into like an angry frown like that's her fake ⁓ she kept doing that and it just gave me that vibe of like and and very status conscious too on top of that and Ken: fake, fake, fake, fake, fake, fake, fake, Lisa: It's like, what do do for a living? Like pressing you on like, what do you do for a living? How much money do you make? Like that type of thing, which is not very common in Mexico. In Mexico, they don't lead with like... what you do for a living, how much money you make. That's an American thing, actually. And I know Europeans make fun of Americans for being like super status conscious, you know? You're basically asking them what their social status is. for her to do that, it's not normal. Usually it's like, what kind of music do you listen to? What kind of food do you like? it's ⁓ it's different. you know, it's not as, even if you're like a doctor or lawyer, it's not as seen as like, above me, kind a thing. So for her to do that, I know she's a very status conscious person. And I think she's a bad person, but it was, I'm like, it's just me, it's in my head, gas lighting myself. And then every I saw of her, she makes the face where it's like, ⁓ She has a smile and then the next picture it's like the smile is gone. picture it's like, ⁓ and the next smile, next picture is like no smile. I was like, ⁓ it's not me. And then I asked an other uncle about like, hey, what about such and such? What's up her? It's ⁓ she's very insecure. And I was like, I knew it. I knew it. And then he was telling me about her and I was like, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. You know, I got this feeling and it was confirmed and yeah. But the fact that I have to constantly like confirm my feelings versus my own instincts ⁓ that again, like we were talking about gaslighting. I've gaslit basically my entire life by my parents especially my and her partner. Gaslighting the fuck out of me. That's how I know. I'm always second guessing myself. Constant. Constant. Always ⁓ my own intuition. And I wish was like other people's like, ⁓ I trusted my gut. And it's like, can't trust my gut because I was trained not to. And I'm trying so hard to like, ⁓ come into my body and not. And that's, I don't know if it's gonna be like a lifetime for me. It's fucked up. Ken: Well, it's kind of like that, you know, we go back to the what we talked about earlier with Kathy Bates. At what point does your mind just warp in and of reality where kind of that number that was done to her, like she doesn't even know what's real anymore. Because if you get gaslit like all the time. You're really starting to question your perception of reality after a while. Like if you didn't know that someone was gaslighting you, you really think that, maybe I was remembering it wrong or something like that. And I wish I knew more depth into that story her and her mom. It could have been just like the mom was like, whatever. You didn't ⁓ say anything me in your speech. And ⁓ maybe Cathy just like, ⁓ maybe I didn't mention her in a speech. Maybe that's why she's mad at me. But all along, it wasn't that at all. It was, got an Oscar. You finally beat me. I don't like that. Lisa: Mm-hmm. ⁓ feelings too. Her mom was... ⁓ Ken: Yeah, her only, the only control her mom has is to make, can never escape the of your parents' approval even at that age. Lisa: see how she self-gaslights? She won that Academy Award at 42. I looked it up. So at 42 years old, you're a full grown adult and you're still gaslighting yourself. And I'm very... Ken: Mm-hmm. Lisa: The fact that I look back on my life and how many times I didn't pursue a lot of opportunities because I self-gaslighted. I didn't think I was good enough. I didn't think this, the constant how much I missed out on because I self-gaslighted beating up over it, but the fact that she was 42 won an Oscar and she still doubted herself. It just... It's a testament to how indoctrination, how they inculcated the gals lighting in childhood, how, an impact it has on your adulthood. ⁓ it sets you up to fail. And it's fucked up. when I was thinking on my childhood, and how I was gaslit, not just being told that I was too sensitive for just having normal reactions to being criticized and invalidated and constantly being like name-called, but other things that happened to me ⁓ how impacted me as adulthood and it still impacts me, ⁓ how just constantly second-guess myself. Why can't I just... You know, it's something I'm working through and I just hope... You know, it's weird. It's like I just hope I'm able to overcome it sometime in my adulthood. I don't want to be... People say it's a lifelong process and I'm like, great, I have to deal with this shit for my entire life. It's like literally narcissistic parents, set you up to fail. really... Ken: the hope is, hopefully, ⁓ aspects of your life, we might second guess ourselves, but the gaslighting from our parents don't work anymore. So it's just like, one thing that we've kind of put to bed, right? We're kind of immune to it now from them. Of course, it kind of messed us up just how our brain operates now, but you know what? Little victories here and there, not too bad. We're living normal lives. We have friends. We have loves. We enjoy life to the on the most part. we have all that in spite of how we were raised. ⁓ I guess it was bad and now it's not so bad. We're going to try to make it better. And hopefully we have plenty of time to do Lisa: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I like that. ⁓ the same time, people who do come from loving and supportive households, they do not have the struggles that we've had to go through because ⁓ had parents to insulate them from that, ⁓ them. They encouraging, ⁓ and constant criticism. Ken: Yeah. just think about it as like a emotional handicap we have. we're kind of like people missing an arm a leg. Not physically, but like mentally, I think we are. We're emotionally kind of like mentally handicapped in a way. There's certain aspects that don't work normally because, you know, you've lived through this. There's some trauma there. Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: your brain got wired a certain way. To deconstruct all of that, takes a while. I don't want to say like it's kind of like a disability, but it's definitely a hindrance at least to have this kind of like live this kind of ⁓ gaslighting under this kind of like being raised by parents through this method. Lisa: Yeah. Yeah, it. And also I think it is a disservice if you don't recognize how sets you back. Because you know, it's the whole, if you go back and tell yourself, give yourself advice, a lot of things I would tell myself and, know, though I've distanced myself from my parents in one way another, whether it's completely cut off or limited contact, whatever, I don't know. They're stuck in there ⁓ inside of me. And self-sabotaging, ⁓ and wish I didn't. Ken: because you that inner critic, people always said it was like, ⁓ it's it's yourself that's the inner critic. I think it's actually your parents sometimes. Like the inner critic is pretty much mirroring what your parents to say to you. Sometimes you do notice that it's like, this person is very mean, my inner critic. Very similar to how my parents were mean to me. ⁓ Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: It puts doubts in your head and then like your low self-esteem and stuff like that. And you know, I remember there was a time where my mom, complimented me, right? When she was still of sound mind. And I, every time she complimented me when I was an adult, I would just look at her as like, you joking? And she's like, you're actually pretty good at whatever I was doing at the time. And I was like, I don't believe you because you, you don't say this to me much. So I think you're kidding. And she's like, how come you have such low self-esteem? I was like, Lisa: Mm-hmm. Ken: Wait, what do you think? If your parents don't compliment you, there's like overdoing it, I know that. But if your parents don't compliment, they do it once in a blue moon, even when you're doing pretty good stuff, when they compliment you, you're thinking what the heck is going on? Why are you complimenting me for? Lisa: Duh. Yeah, do you need money from me? But yeah. Ken: Exactly. By the way, if you don't... Yeah, that's not a normal behavior. So why should I it as normal behavior and just not ⁓ point to it? Lisa: Yeah, it's sus, as the kids say. No cap. Ken: do you have low self-esteem? Geez, I wonder why. It's almost like my parents never complimented me. ⁓ wait. Lisa: Gee Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean they're the ones who set up the the foundation in you. So... It's funny because you know, these Estrangement parents? Parents whose kids have been estranged from them? It's like, I don't know why my kid would do that. They're ungrateful bastards. They're this, they're that. Like all the things that they say about them. Who created that? You did. You fucking created that supposed quote unquote horrible person that you're criticizing. Ken: Yep, prunies gotta prune. Lisa: ⁓ my god, yeah, we should invite her on the show Ken: I'd love to have her on the show. Lisa: Yeah, we should totally invite her. Send her, are you gonna DM her? Be like, Ken: love your work. Really love your work. You wanna talk to us? We're a very small podcast at the moment, but we're gonna get bigger. Lisa: Yeah. Ken: We're not Fox News or anything, but we'll get there. Lisa: Yeah, Yeah. Ken: Seriously, yeah, Abraham Lincoln never got a compliment from his dad. Lisa: Mm. Ken: I swear that's probably what happened. He probably got... we could call it like Kathy Bates like, yeah, your mom never complimented you so now you doubt yourself. Lisa: weird, the only compliment she ever gave me was based on like my body. ⁓ was based on certain body parts ⁓ that were acceptable to her. it's, yeah, but she very critical of like her own weight and my weight and... Ken: Yeah, yeah, also that my mom kind of did like something similar, whereas only like certain body parts, she would say. But the thing is, it's even worse because she would like look at my nose. It's like, ⁓ you have my nose, not your dad's nose. It's a nice nose. So like stuff like that. So it's like complimenting herself while complimenting you. ⁓ you got my nose. Good for you. Lisa: Mm. good job. ⁓ Ken: You didn't end up with your dad's flat nose. I'm like, still out ⁓ ⁓ you are my real parents. ⁓ like, ⁓ they'll find me one day. My real mom and dad. Lisa: I'm sorry. Yeah, maybe my mom has a she has a severe body She's had like tons of plastic surgery and I ⁓ someone posted a like ever she literally okay, it's gonna be so fucked up and I know people are gonna be like really angry, but she's looked horrible, I don't know if send you I'll send it can you I'll even send you the picture ⁓ Ken: Yeah, send me the picture, I'll see how it is. You can get my... my reaction. Lisa: is terrible. And it's because I it to my uncle who hates her because like she falsely accused him of molesting his daughter. And I said, ⁓ my God, she needs to sue her plastic surgeon. You know, I was being super petty. he goes, ⁓ my God, he needs to sue that surgeon because that's horrible. Like she looks terrible. ⁓ I think it's because, know, with narcissists, power is part of their power is their looks, right? ⁓ But you get older, I mean, you're going to lose your quote unquote conventional because conventionally our society favors youth. It ⁓ Yeah. ⁓ if not conventionally attractive, Ken: Yes. Lisa: you will do anything and everything to hang on to that I mean, whether it's ⁓ of plastic whatever. could see her grasping at straws and it's, ⁓ let's just say, ever that? You know We've all seen it, like horrible plastic surgery. ⁓ Ken: Mm-hmm. Lisa: Like, I wonder if that's gonna be her in a few years. Like, it's like, heady, it's almost there, you know? God. Ken: Well I'm thinking since you and your uncle kinda don't like her, maybe you should thank the plastic surgeon. Good job doing one for the world. Solid for the crew. Lisa: Hahaha! He fucked up her face. Ken: He fucked up her face. Win... Win one for Gipper. Stuff like that. Lisa: Terrible terrible Ken: Should have a palate cleanser after all of the rough stuff we talked about this hour. Lisa: Bye yeah, I'll have another drink. Thank you for suggesting it. ⁓ Ken: Well, if you guys love this podcast, please subscribe. ⁓ Please put on notifications and we're on YouTube, and those great ones. Apple Podcasts, whatever. Bring those numbers up, hey? Lisa: Okay, well we'll see you next week, bye guys. ⁓ he laughed at me. ⁓ shit. The hefty bag went... Okay, well you know, it humanizes me and stuff. Okay, bye Ken. Bye. Ken: I heard bags in the background, okay. Bye Lisa. Bye.