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From a 100-Year-Old Farmhouse to Electric Tractors: Our Rural Energy Story · Rural-E

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Rule E Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: And my name is Robert Wallace, and uh I'm a certified energy manager and been working in the rural energy space for a number of years now.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: And uh my co-host with me here is Michael Clues.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is our first uh podcast episode, and so we're looking forward to uh trying to get some information out there and share a story about some of the work that we're working on.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: And really, our focus is in the rural area uh areas.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're calling in today uh and recording this from my home here in Dufer, Oregon, which is uh uh in central Oregon in Wasco County.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And um the old house uh where we live here is actually over a hundred-year-old uh farmhouse.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've got some acreage here and some irrigation and some ponds and and uh and such.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so Michael had asked to uh join the show, and so we're gonna kind of talk about how we got here and then also talk a little bit about some of the future um shows and topics that we're looking forward to recording and such.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so basically, we're looking to share our stories, share our stories about our experiences and everything of working out in the rural areas and some of the challenges.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we work a lot in the agriculture sector, work a lot with the rural small businesses and such.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think maybe I'll kind of kick off, Michael, and then uh kind of tell how how I arrived at where we're at, and then um would love to hear from you and and uh have you tell us about how you and I first connected and maybe even talk about uh one of our first road trips.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so I was I uh kind of born and raised in the local area uh here in Wasco County, and um had had a few different jobs.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had spent a number of years working in manufacturing and ended up being uh uh production manager for a couple of the local facilities here in the Columbia River Gorge.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so that really uh got me into looking at energy efficiency and uh efficiency in general with labor in that.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: We were we were really practicing what they call lean manufacturing.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're trying to make the most of what we had with the materials and the be as efficient as possible with labor.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and what I didn't realize was it was a a really a course in energy efficiency uh that we've used for years later because a lot of it's really based around you know people's behaviors and the equipment, how they interact with everything.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um things were things were going good there.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, um my brother and I had a small construction business.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: We were working in that space also, um, but I was more uh part-time on the construction and more full-time in with the manufacturing aspects and stuff.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and then then the economic downturn of about 2008 hit.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, I had actually became a uh certified home inspector and then also uh was doing some commercial industrial property inspections.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, 2008, nine, 10, basically the housing market crashed at that point in time.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I was kind of looking around to what I could do to supplement my income at that time, and I seen an ad in the newspaper back when we read newspapers about a job posting for an organization, a nonprofit organization here in Central Oregon that was looking for a farm energy uh field person.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, geez, I I could do that.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've got my experience manufacturing, really grew up um working out on the farm quite a bit when I was younger uh with my uh grandparents, um, everything from changing uh irrigation pipe to picking rocks to feeding cows and all those things in between and stuff.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I ended up uh putting an application in and I was a little iffy, you know, gosh, should I do this?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Is the housing market gonna come back?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and all the stats said it wasn't gonna get as bad as what it did.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so this was supposed to be a one-year uh one-year project or one year uh job.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, oh heck, I can do that for a year, and then I'll get my business going again, and um we'll be off and running.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I went down, uh, I applied for the job.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Their office at the time was down in Redmond, Oregon at the farm service center there.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the the nonprofit was called White East Resource Conservation and Development.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'd I'd went and kind of studied up irrigation efficiency.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd try to have some good information about that, and um, and uh, you know, try to just be knowledgeable about the content uh because I got called in for an interview for the job, and I remember going into the boardroom and there were five people in there, and it was a little intimidating.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: One of them was an irrigation engineer, and then uh a uh what they called an ear and energy efficiency representative from Bonneville Power Administration, the ex executive director of Y East at the time, and then uh another gentleman that um uh worked for NRCS, which is a uh a USDA.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh there was a fifth person, and and they were the um energy efficiency representative from one of the local co-ops.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so they went through, you know, went around the table asking all these questions, and I had studied pretty good, and uh I think I did quite well because before I got home, which is about a two-hour drive, they had called and said, Yep, you got the job.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We want you to start working with it.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, well, I need like a little more information.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: When when does this job start?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was basically some grant funding from Bonneville Power Administration over to this Yast group, nonprofit, and the program was called Save Water, Save Energy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And our role was to be working with uh rural electric cooperatives in the region and to do agriculture energy efficiency.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I got started uh a one-year assignment, and that's been um over 16 years ago now.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's really developed and really along the way, our our core has really been agriculture energy efficiency and rural small businesses, and uh that ties into some of the work with uh uh USDA rural development with their energy programs, um, and then all the electric co-ops and investor-owned utilities and stuff.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: We've been in that space.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then um kind of since you know, more recent, I would say the past five, six, seven years, um, we've kind of we've been looking into other areas into uh electrification of equipment, on-road and off-road equipment and vehicles and resiliency resiliency and all those different things and stuff.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's been a it's been a good run.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: And along the way, we've seen some really cool things, and uh, but we necessarily necessarily haven't been out there sharing our information or or uh getting the information out about some of the stuff we're seeing and everything.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a lot of ways, I feel like we're a a connector of the urban centers and the rural space around the energy technology.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it is hard to describe to folks what we do.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Michael, you've probably had that same experience and stuff.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so maybe how did how did you and I first meet up or get together and and maybe if you could talk about that a little bit?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And thanks again for having me.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I actually came out to uh rural Oregon a little bit differently.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in the upper Midwest and southeastern Wisconsin in what most folks would consider a pretty suburban area.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I went to school for natural resource management and was in a pretty unique program where I got a blend of standard natural resources with fish and wildlife classes and soil science courses, got to dig a soil pit and learn about all the different layers.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: But then I also was taking courses on environmental policy and so it was a nice bridge to be able to understand the practical side of the environmental and natural resources space as well as how we make these things happen on a policy level and a local planning level.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, I so I actually took a single energy course during that.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: My whole original project was I want to do this to be a little bit more well-rounded and was then gonna go into open plan space to tell them of the course and realize I love this energy space and couldn't get enough of it.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a professor that told me about this one program out in Oregon, and she had had a previous student several years ago, at least a decade and a half, and we'd done this program in Oregon called RAIR, and it was like, Well, what is this RAIR program?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's resource assistance for ruralists, and the whole premise of the RAIR AmeriCorps program was to prepare graduate level uh fellows in two different commun rural communities in Oregon with local governments, nonprofits, and local communities organizations to help provide capacity that these rural communities were permissions and bring in uh folks from outside of the region, from urban area, kind of build that rural urban bridge a little bit to to to develop the uh the capacities communities.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I ended up uh working with Robert and uh originally came out to our work to the Rare Mirror Program.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And for me it was a fantastic experience because I didn't really experience living in a rural community before and seeing some of the opportunities and innovation happening was absolutely exciting.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: I remember um I first day well after sorry, I guess I'll step back a little bit.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: We had an orientation at University of Oregon, which hosted the program uh for for all these folks who were coming in.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's about 30 of us paired up at the different organizations across the state, and got to hear some of the state partners, which was really exciting to me and seeing not only uh paired with energy organizations, but there was also people doing stuff with uh natural resource plan, with environmental education, with uh city planning, food systems.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: It really covered a wide variety of topics uh in rural spaces and was adding a lot of capacity.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: But my first day, I remember it, um we actually uh Robert called me up and he's like, Yeah, so you want to go to Montana on day one?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, okay, this is the first day we're um Um and we actually went out to uh took a drive out to Montana and were showing off an electric tractor at uh an electrify uh the big sky event, and there was several um electric pieces of equipment from uh well the electric tractor that we had to garbage trucks and some of the uh early um medium and heavy duty electric equipment at the time.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this was back in uh fall of 28 or so.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: We've progressed quite a ways in the electric vehicle space since then.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd never seen an electric tractor, I'd never driven a normal uh tractor at that point, and it was really cool to be able to see that equipment in action, to be able to talk about it, and I had to learn pretty quick on the drive over.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Robert kind of handed me a manual and was like, all right, study up and be ready to talk about this when we get to Montana.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: So uh that was a pretty cool experience.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: And uh since then, that really just I guess for me set the stage of my my time in in rural Oregon and working with Robert and just seeing how every rural communities is completely unique, but so many of them are at the forefront of emerging technologies and innovation.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's part of the goal of this podcast is to be able to tell all that story.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh showcase all the innovation that's happening in rural spaces and to get new ideas out there.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I had to get special permission from the program basically to take Michael out of state, especially this day.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I remember drive over there and and then I've you know talked with Michael and actually his parents, and they're like, well, it was either gonna be because we drove all the way from Dalles.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: I picked Michael Dalles that were off there, and we drove all the way to Missoula, Montana, and uh we had to be there that afternoon.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember we pulled up and we had a a pickup about the trailer and this electric tractor, and we really couldn't find a place to park.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they had an event going on in the football stadium up in the VIP boxes there, and there was a security person there, and we pulled up and said, Hey, you know, is there a spot around here where we could park?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: She said we had Oregon plates, and she loved your ducks.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And and she said, You just back up right here, and I'm like, like, right here, yes, and it was the entry walk by that electric tractor and everything, but that's where and she she guarded that for us essentially.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so that's kind of how we kicked the day off.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I stayed over that first night and had to be down on campus that next early in the morning.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything had to be set up by like 7 a.m.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: or something, and so we got to watch all those buses and garbage trucks and other uh types of equipment pull in there, and even for me, it was one of the first time I'd see an electric garbage truck.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was one of those electric Peterbelt uh city uh garbage trucks that were there, and and so to be able to see those things and everything, and so we did our our presentations, Michael helped with that.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: No one else there knew that it was his essential second J second day on the job, and um and then I remembered everything a little afterwards, and I said, well, hey, we'll find a spot in a hotel in Spokane or something like that and then get heading home.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And Michael and I got in the truck and heading home, and uh next thing I'm gonna be.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was probably a six-hour drive from Azul after we started at seven in the morning.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was by 10 o'clock at night by that time Tri-Cities and we're this close, let's head home and and we drove home.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I joked with Michael and I'm like, well, now you know it's like working for a small nonprofit in the rural areas, you know, the hours we put in.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think he had probably over 30 hours in two days, and a couple long days there.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: But really from there, uh things you know have you know developed more.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, when you when you first came with us and stuff, uh, we were basically hosting you through the Marath World program.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And at that time, um, we'd had some funding through USDA role development for the REAP grant program.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was really your assignment.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the majority of it, I think probably 70% of your time is gonna be working on USDA REAP.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe talk about that.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then we had built in, because I really wanted you involved with all of the different things we were working on at the time, including this eFarms program with the off-road equipment, including uh some of these other irrigation efficiency projects we're working on and stuff.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you want to just real quickly touch on the REAP program and kind of your initial work with us when we first got together, because I think that kind of sets the tone on the type of work that we've been doing and participants out there that we work with.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh I started doing uh USDA REAP uh grant writing and technical assistance.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that program was Rural Energy for America program, and it was under USDA uh rural development.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And what it really was was a program that was providing funding for rural small business owners and agricultural producers, everything from your wheat growers to your nurseries to your rural hardware store down the road.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal that was essentially to fund energy efficiency improvements for renewable energy projects.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And these are all small-scale projects.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So something you'd have store roof or irrigation efficiency upgrades.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Michael, so when you first came to us through the Rare Americor program, you were your main assignment essentially uh was to work under USDA rural development program uh called REAP.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then we had also included in that uh your ability to help us with our other projects, such as the eFarms project, or we had an innovation grant going, I think, at the time, around irrigation efficiency, uh variable frequency drives, some of those things.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: But it was just to kind of you were to support that uh grant project that we had.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh why don't you talk about that a little bit?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of what, you know, as you first came in and and uh maybe the you know the types of businesses and and that we work with and maybe some of the technology too.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: So the original premise of the USDA Reap Grants, that's rural energy for America program, was to provide funding for on-farm or for rural small businesses to um essentially have energy efficiency upgrades and improvements or renewable energy projects on site.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time it provided uh 25% uh total project cost of federal cost share for that, which was quite substantial for a lot of these small projects.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And we saw everything from putting solar on the hardware store to uh Leapalisa upgrades on a pivot where you're essentially you're you're putting the drops down a little bit further, uh closer to the crops to be more efficient with your water use, which also is then saving energy at the pump.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of these projects, what was cool about them was they're not only benefiting the producer's bottom line, but in a lot of cases you're saving water on them too, which kind of goes into a lot of the other work that we were doing on the irrigation efficiency side.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: But these grants were not simple grants to put together.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a lot of time and gathering information that the producer or small business owner would have to put together.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: So our responsibility was how can we simplify that process?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we worked with folks from start to finish on putting together their application, working with their developer, their contractor, to understand not only their project goals, but the actual steps necessary to make this project a reality.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So oftentimes it wasn't just putting together the grant application, but it was really trying to understand what are your goals on your farm for your business and what type of funding might we best be able to help line up for you for that project.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it was a USDA Reap grant, sometimes it was utility funding.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: So it was really trying to put together that whole holistic funding package for folks.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And these things were, I'd say, anywhere from 50 to 100, 250 page grant applications.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: So our capacity that we were able to help provide with that technical assistance for producers, small businesses made a substantial difference because then they were able to focus on um on their business, right?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's an additional thing that they're not having to to take time out of their regular operation where a lot of these businesses are stretched pretty thin on their time and their capacity.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's something that we could help with.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a a couple of things there.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: You you'd mentioned a couple of different technologies.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're gonna actually dig into that when you say LIPA LISA.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the average person is like, I have no idea what you're talking about.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's an improved sprinkler package for an irrigation pivot.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I think on our future shows, we're actually gonna dig into some of these projects and stuff.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the the interesting thing, you know, Michael, you'd mentioned the federal grant with USDA Rural Development, these reap grants and how complex they are.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And we've had we've you know had the opportunity to work with a number of these federal grants, and they are very complex.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, when you work in it every day, it's one thing.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: But yet if you're a a farmer or own the local hardware store or a winery or you know, some of these different folks that we've worked with, they're just trying to focus on the day-to-day.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's almost overwhelming.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that was a lot of what you know you you had brought to the table at the time is that support to help help get those projects across the the finish line with a variety of different technologies and stuff.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And what what type of project of you know, with Reap, would you say would be like one of the number one types of project you'd help someone with?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say the most we saw were small-scale solar projects.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of that was rooftop solar, where folks wanted to put a smaller ray on top of their business.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we did see a couple of small ground mount operations at a couple of farms as well with some land.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe um ground mount solar.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, yeah, ground mount solar rays.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, uh, where it's raised a little bit off the ground um on some land that wasn't very productive for that producer.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, well, we could be throwing some sunlight as well on farm.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that would help power their operations.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because a lot of times what we're seeing is in some in some regions, uh the power costs were kind of high.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So if folks were able to offset some of their on-farm energy usage with a solar array, that was their goal.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then other times we saw energy, a lot of energy efficiency projects, primarily in the irrigation space.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of those might have been where we had uh a pump upgrade to make that irrigation pump more efficient.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, if you're saving any energy at the pump, you're saving money on your power bill and you're saving a lot of water further downstream in their process.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: So these projects, I guess, weren't all just about energy savings or energy uh generation, but it was cost savings.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was saving labor uh time.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: So someone doesn't have to go out and uh make those changes manually in some cases.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of it was just really functionally making the operation a lot more efficient, not just on the energy side.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we'll we'll dig into the details talking about energy and energy efficiency and some of these projects and stuff, but it gets pretty complex pretty fast.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the programs available are cost-hare programs or grant programs to incentivize that operation, whether it be the hardware store or the farm to be more efficient or to have on-site generation.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: But uh it really depends on who their electric utility is, what County or region or watershed they're in, just all these complexities, what type of business?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are they an agriculture business?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are they a rural small business?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And those types of things.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, you know, those are definite things that we'll dig into.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: The interesting thing to me is as we're working, you know, really through some of the utility programs for energy efficiency, and then these reap grant programs.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then oftentimes, if it's a farm, they're also, they may have other funding sources to help them with the projects.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the unique things when you work in the irrigation efficiency, it has an energy and water benefit oftentimes, and oftentimes labor and better yields and quality and those types of things.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, again, those are some things we're going to talk about.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: A big uh a big play that we work from is what they call the energy water nexus.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll um actually bring some of our staff in and talk about how that works and what kind of examples they're seeing out there.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I want to talk a little bit about too, because you really started in this energy efficiency in the renewable with the REAP grant program.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then kind of while you were here, we brought, we got really got working on this eFarms program where the same producers we're already working with were interested in actually working with us and testing out some of this uh electric battery electric off-road equipment, such as the tractors and the excavator, mini excavator and the side-by-sides and those things.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, I think that's one of the things that um there's only so many farmers out there, and a lot of them, you know, we've developed a trust with them over the years, and uh we bring them opportunities and stuff too.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna we'll touch on that also.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I think one of the big advantages we have, and we'll dive into at a future episode also is when we talk about fund stacking.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's all these programs out there, but how do I, as a farmer, know what programs I qualify for?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And there's some traditionally there's some tools online you can go look at, and but when you pull up your location and stuff, it gives you 273 different programs, and you read through the list, and maybe not all of them, or maybe very few of them, uh fit what you're trying to do and stuff.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I spent the time to look through all those too, right?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And research them and those types of things.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of something the space that we live in, and and uh so sometimes there's grants out there.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um oftentimes what we see, especially in the agriculture sector, is there's funding for water efficiency.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like right now, this the entire Pacific Northwest is in a pretty severe drought, and so water is pretty scarce.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's funding for um water programs, but uh to improve irrigation systems.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: But that same farm may be working with a USDA oftentimes like NRCS or the Watershed Council or some sort of a water group to help them put a better or more efficient irrigation system in.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: But um they don't realize they also can qualify for energy efficiency funds.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of these funds are coming through the utilities, um, coming through rural development.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Even NRCS has water programs, but they've also have energy programs.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're out there kind of working with folks trying to help look at what their project is and then try to help them make some decisions on uh potential funding to bring together.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we call it fund stacking.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I know you and I have talked a lot about that, and we'll definitely dive into that.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: Any thoughts or comments on the fund stacking aspect?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we'll be out in the field and a lot of folks, there's so many different funding programs out there, and everyone has its own particular requirements, or you have to be in a certain location, like you were talking about.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll get people who are like, well, wait, this program, I don't qualify for this.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll go back and look, and it's like, well, actually, yeah, you might not qualify for that program, but this one right here, retool your project a little bit, or maybe look at a different project that you have on farm, and that could be a great funding source for it.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes too, uh, there's a project where, oh, maybe this this isn't the it's like a federal funding source.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the the farmers are like, that's way too complicated.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to mess with that.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: But then we'll try to help point in the right direction and maybe some utility dollars, which are a little bit more accessible uh for their for their type of project.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of that is honestly, I think we kind of act as a rural connector.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to connect the producer, the small business owner with whatever those funding sources are gonna be best fit for their project.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that might be a combination thereof.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Other times it might be a new funding source that just came out.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: We try to stay on top of those uh to make sure we're able to best match those funding sources.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I it's hard to describe what we do sometimes.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And even some of my closer friends and family, they're like, what exactly do you do?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I guess to summarize it, you know, the best I could say is we provide technical assistance.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: So kind of more of the engineering uh background, whether it's a farm audit or assessment or walkthrough or for a business, and then looking to see maybe some maybe new technology they could bring in or upgrading a pump, or you know, the list goes on, and uh uh really doing it from the scope of what the farmer or business person wants to do and really looking at the economics of it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so we'll we'll be digging into all this uh over the next few episodes and everything.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think maybe let's talk about some of the items that um future shows that we'll be bringing on.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so Michael's, you'll probably see him on a regular basis.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: He'll be uh kind of a co-host for me.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And oftentimes our goal is to interview people from the field and talk to them about their projects and stuff.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think a few areas we wanna, uh initial shows we want to talk about is the fund stacking and talking about how that works and how we leverage uh some of the different programs that are out there.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: We also network with a a group um of kind of nonprofit and organizations from throughout the state.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: We it's an unofficial group that we call the um Oregon Rural Energy Network.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and so we get together and meet quarterly and talk about some of the different programs that are out there and try to support each other.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we've got folks all the way from uh Wallawa County, Lake County, uh here, us here in Central Oregon, uh down on the I-5 corridor, some of the state organizations, some of the utilities are involved in that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really the energy lens and trying to figure out how we can help uh some of these folks in these rural areas uh become more efficient, uh, maybe putting solar panels on the roof, uh, those types of things.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also bringing in some of the innovative technology around the energy resiliency, the electric equipment, electric vehicles, and that.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And that's that that last piece, the the technology piece and the innovations really been in the last five years or so.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll we'll talk about that too.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think talking, you know, on the irrigation side, talking about uh, you know, what do you see out there?
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: What is a what does a farm walkthrough or an energy audit consist of?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: What what happens next?
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we got some good stories about some projects we've worked on there.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think we're really looking at a systems approach, you know, we're looking at um um what their opportunities are, what their challenges are, and and can we help them with that?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's interesting because all energy costs have gone up, you know, whether it's you know, right now diesel and and just gasoline and but also electrical energy, you know, and there's so much demand on the grid right now, and I know um we've both been involved in different committees or groups that are looking at you know what the what the energy um sector looks like or what the forecasts look like as we as we look with the big data center loads and electrification and some of those things.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think with us, we're we try to remain pretty neutral politically and technology-wise, and we're looking at really the economics and what would be the best solution for that, for that operation and stuff.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, before we get away too much, Michael, I want to go back and I think uh, you know, with some of these programs too, I guess just on your your experience, what was your what was your favorite project that you could think of that you worked on, you know, kind of up until now, uh, as you and I are working together.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you had something that would be a good example to share with folks.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, there's so many good options.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I really enjoyed, I'd say, honestly, e-farms uh and that that work just because we got to see so many different types of new electric.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um I want to say electric farm equipment is not just farm equipment, uh mini excavators and really electric uh equipment that's going to have a good use case in rural communities, whether that be the parks and recs department, the local school, uh, or your landowners on working lands.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just being able to see the the evolution of this technology over the past couple of years from hopping on that tractor for the first time out in Montana to now seeing, yeah, uh mini excavators are fully electric, which is really exciting.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: And just proving how what the use cases are, what works, what doesn't work, and making sure that's going to be the right use case for those rural communities.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want, we don't want, we're not out here trying to sell a technology.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to see what works and what doesn't work.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think one of the, you know, thinking about kind of some things I'm excited about is the technologies evolve and kind of some of our recent conversations and stuff.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: And a couple areas I'm thinking of is the medium and heavy duty fleets.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I know we were down at the ACT Expo in Vegas looking at uh everybody from Peterbelt to Freightliner to Volvo and and uh Rivian and all these different manufacturers, these medium and heavy duty fleets.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh that'll be something we're gonna talk about uh upcoming also and kind of where some of the technology is at.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um maybe maybe we'll be making some field trips.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I know we do a lot of ride and drives for the eFarms program.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll we'll bring those folks in and talk to that team and kind of what they're working on and really that program so far.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you and I, when your first day we went all the way to Montana, that was kind of a special deal, but that program's really uh been going in Oregon and Washington now for about five years, and so we'll dig into that.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, energy resiliency, I think this is a big thing, especially like uh for me personally in this old farmhouse we started talking about is everything here is electric.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so if the power goes out, uh we I don't have any water, I don't have any power, my internet's out, I don't have cell phone reception here at the house, and so I'm pretty dependent upon electricity.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so, are there ways to be more resilient living in these rural areas, both on the fire side and on the energy side?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um last week you and I were down at Oregon State University's research farm uh working and talking with Dr.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: Chad Higgins.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: What were we looking at there?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that was super exciting.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Dr.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Higgins has an agrovoltaics installation at the research facility there.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So agro voltaics is kind of new, but the premises remains the same.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what it is is dual-use solar.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So you have solar and you're planting crops either in between the rows or directly underneath the solar rays and the PV modules and panels that are there.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it allows the producer to not only produce their crops like they're they've been doing for centuries, but also now producing sunlight and thinking of sunlight as another commodity on the farm and really kind of shaking up the revenue stream for a farm.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we um take more variable years as we're seeing throughout Oregon, especially with the drought conditions?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: How can we supplement uh that with another income stream?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: But also, I think the most important part is it provides additional shading for those crops.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the biggest thing in my mind is not only are we producing that surplus energy on farm and kind of getting a little bit of that energy independence or energy resilience, but we're shading those crops more, which is reducing a lot of that supplement or irrigation needs.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I after after that visit that we had at with uh uh Dr.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: Higgins there at the research farm, we actually went to another producer that grows a lot of small vegetables for farmers markets, restaurants, blueberries, flowers, fresh cut flowers, lettuce, lettuce.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: He had agrivoltaic system and had he was actually overgenerating for what his consumption was.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so he was working on, and he had just received two new medium duty electric trucks for delivering his product and stuff.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh we're working with him on doing some data collection and basically comparing these new uh he had one of the new Izuzu uh fully electric box trucks, uh medium duty, and then he had one of the um new Chevy bright drop vans, and those were what he had switched over from an old old uh Ford Econo line gas van.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were we're gonna work with him on data collection and kind of look at the efficiency and and cost comparisons between those vehicles.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Also, you know, it kind of helped work with him on sourcing the vehicles, where you could find them at, uh, how to charge them, those types of things.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think all these are gonna be things that we'll be talking about in future episodes, and we'll be bringing other folks in, and maybe even uh some of these folks we just mentioned on here, get them on and hear from them on how it's working and and kind of some of those innovations and stuff.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I think with this first episode, uh, you know, I think let's call it there.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: And and uh the again the name of the name of the show is Rule E, and it's rule energy and uh innovation and efficiency and and looking to see what kind of opportunities are out there.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Michael, thanks for thanks for joining me on this first episode and look forward to having you help interview some of these folks uh as we go forward.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know a lot of the different uh people that um that we've been working with for years and uh try to help tell their story.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Any closing thoughts you have or anything you're really excited about?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you can't wait for future episodes.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Just excited to be a part of it and really help tell the story of all of these rural energy projects and showcase innovation that's happening.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot going on in rural.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: That there is and uh not everybody sees it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we were very fortunate to be involved with several of these things and even beyond what we're doing, just the technology on farm with agriculture and stuff.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh some of the some of the older old timers, I guess I'll say, and I'm slowly or maybe quickly becoming an old timer, but they're talking about how fast technology is growing in agriculture.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I I see that myself, and I think it's because energy prices are going up, labor labor can be very hard to get labor and it's expensive.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, all the new uh policies and stuff around labor uh make it challenging to pick the crops and all that.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so we're gonna we're gonna be diving into these issues.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so join us next time and uh thank you for tuning in to Rule E.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: So appreciate it.