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Episode #46: Joel Salatin on Changing Culture Mindset & Your Identity · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're the kind of neighbor a lot of people would love to have because you know there is additional security.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: So don't apologize for a thing.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Embrace it.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy where you are.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the journey.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the learning time.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you will come out on the other side of this with a much greater direction.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Beyond Labels.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Dr.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McKella.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here with my co-host, everyone's favorite farmer, Joel Salatin.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Joel.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Sena.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Joel, today we have an exciting episode for all of our listeners and viewers.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: We have two big announcements.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: The first announcement is that the anticipated release of the online summit is available for purchase now.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: The link to that summit is going to be in the description box of the podcast and the video.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: The second big announcement, I'm going to turn it over to you because this is very exciting.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's huge.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we want this to be something that people embrace enthusiastically and not, you know, not uh not fearfully.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we've been doing this now for a year.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and so Cena and I have been, you know, uh donating our time to these podcasts.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Behind the scenes, we have a um a wonderful young uh uh editor, uh video editor, uh Nolan, who has worked tirelessly behind the scenes with us.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, he has a young family, uh Cena has a young family.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm over the hill, I'm an empty nester, okay.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: But but but but the point is that for us to continue devoting uh the time and attention and to be able to have the expertise uh that we need to make these podcasts really uh sustainable and go forward, we need to monetize them somehow.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And neither Cena nor I is comfortable with advertising.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: We just we don't like it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like the whole notion of let's read a let's read our little ad spot now, those kinds of things.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're neither one of us is is comfortable with that.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: How but there are numerous podcasts that do a very nominal subscription fee in order to monetize so that the editors and the technicians behind the scenes and maybe even the podcasters can um can can get a little bit of remuneration for the time and attention we put on these podcasts.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so we are going to start that uh on about August 25th and here to tell some of the some of the things that that will entail is Cena.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, yes, so it's it's going to be hopefully affordable for everybody.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's only going to be$5 a month for the subscription service.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And for$5 a month, you're going to have access to all of our podcasts and the video versions.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're also going to have access to a lot of bonus content.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Joel and I will do live QA sessions once a quarter.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you can't attend the session live, you can always email our email your questions and we'll answer them on air.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're also going to have behind the scenes videos in both of our lives.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to have behind-the-scenes videos from um Joel on the farm, like some of the day-to-day things on the farm, and really get to know his farm life um setting and different obstacles and hurdles he overcomes.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then also behind the scenes in my life with particular cooking videos, for instance, um, how I live this lifestyle with homeschooling and having a business and cooking everything from scratch.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll be offering all those, um, all that bonus content.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: You'll also get a discount to our annual Polyface Wellness Summit.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: You'll get 10% off the summit.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we're also going to offer just additional bonus videos and content that are directed by the audience.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's what you're telling us that you're interested in.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So for instance, Joel, we just released um part one and part two of rewiring the nervous system.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And hands down, this was one of the most um highly rated, highly responded to um episodes that we've ever hosted.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was second behind trying to find community.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so people are asking, how can I actually get more information about rewiring the nervous system?
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like this really resonates with me.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: I need this.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: What can how can I rewire my nervous system?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing that I'm going to add for bonus content in the subscription service is I will walk you through a series of short videos of different exercises that you can do in a specific order to actually rewire the nervous system.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we're going to keep fresh and new content that's bonus material, in addition to the weekly podcasts.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Cena, that's fantastic.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that uh that that people who have been joining us now for a year um and and thank you all for your your continued loyalty, patronage, and interest in these topics.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: We Cena and I have no agenda except to bring you things that we run across that that help us, and in turn, we think can help you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's our only agenda.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're not here to get rich, we're not here to build an empire.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so we're being very transparent with what we, you know, what we're wanting to do with you.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: However, we are both, you know, kind of a libertarian persuasion.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: We do, we do uh uh believe in um in paying paying for what you get and paying it forward and investing in things that you want.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: We've certainly done that.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: We invest in food, uh, we invest in information, uh, we invest in um in memories and all those kinds of things.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I know we both invest in books.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so you know, we we believe in in the investment principle of investing in yourself.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would just encourage everyone to view this as an investment in yourself and and um and it'll it'll help us all and it'll help Cena and I and our and Noel and our technician behind the scenes uh to be able to uh feel really enthusiastic about um you know about presenting this every week and be able to make the to be able to keep the lights on.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that's that's an important thing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'll add just really quickly, we're also we also made this decision to try to continue to invest in our community, in this beyond labels community, because as you know, censorship is a real issue these days.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: You and I have both been censored, and people have actually tried to cancel you out.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so what we want to also do is not support these platforms that are censoring.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: We want to shift our um, you know, we feed the good, we starve the bad, right?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to feed um the platforms that are actually promoting free speech, and we want to create a kind of a more comfortable safe space for our tribe to be able to communicate with each other and to connect without this fear of censorship.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: And Joel, even though we're on these platforms right now, like YouTube and whatnot, there is a level of self-censorship, you know, where we've even moved, we've had to move some videos over to Rumble because we knew that it was going to get censored off YouTube.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to support that um that that those platforms and that mentality anymore.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: We want to build a community outside of those platforms, and having the subscription service allows us to kind of protect our own community and build it behind this paywall.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for coming on this journey uh with us thus far.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: And we look forward, we're very excited about uh about this next stage.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh for us, it's like you know, the podcast uh has been, you know, um uh being nursed, and now we're starting to wean it.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And pretty soon it's going to be a toddler, you know.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so so so here we are.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and certainly, you know, we we've learned a lot uh through our experience.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for your your continued uh encouragement, your feedback, your inspiration, and we look forward to walking this journey together.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's all we'll say about that.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: So here we are now for today's new podcast.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Cena?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yay, okay.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm really excited.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're highlighting Joel today with a listener's question.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Christine from Heritage Pines Farm emailed us with an amazing story and multiple questions.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Today we're going to answer one of them.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: But to give you some context, I wanted to quickly read read some highlights from her story.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fascinating story.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so she said she grew up in the suburbs of New York City, went to Georgetown, graduated with a business degree, worked in advertising in New York.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Coca-Cola was one of her accounts, she said.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Then she had a real come to Jesus moment when she found herself writing a presentation on how to get Hispanic moms to buy more Coca-Cola for their kids.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now, she is a first-generation um Taiwanese American immigrant who is now a first generation farmer, right?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: When she had that come to Jesus moment, she realized that she just couldn't do that kind of work anymore.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: So her and her husband moved to Hong Kong.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: They lived there for five years.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: She joined a tech startup and then became a stay-at-home mom.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: She burned out from urban life.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: She got sick over and over again and decided to move back to the States to the Midwest.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there they had some big epiphanies, and now they are running a small regenerative farmstead outside of Colorado Springs, and they are loving it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So one of her questions is this it's about identity.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: It says, um, is there or should there be a space in the industry for people like us?
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're not really homesteaders, but I wouldn't say we're quite at the level of farmers.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: We're not homesteaders because we're not really doing this just for our family.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: We don't homeschool.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Our goal is not self-sufficiency, although that is a side benefit.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: We do it primarily because we believe in environmental and land stewardship and how it ties in with physical health and our food system, but we're not quite at the level of full-fledged farmers either, like Polyphase.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: We just started our CSA this summer with only five families, because that is our farmstead production capacity.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't plan to grow super fast.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: We'd rather connect more deeply with a few families, especially since we're not able to produce a lot yet.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: My husband left his corporate job last year, and we're giving it a year to see if we can actually cover our expenses by stacking enterprises, everything from the farm shares to us doing little side jobs.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but where does that put us?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're not quite homesteaders, we're not quite farmers or ranchers.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is that good or bad?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Should it be encouraged or discouraged?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there space for this type of livelihood as we watch the next generation of young people figure out what they want to do with their lives?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, Joel, this question is perfect for you.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be quiet and let you take this one.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, thanks for the question and thanks for the feedback.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: We we we delight in um in listener and uh feedback.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So um, you know, what we're what we're describing here, uh Christine, what what we're describing is is that awkward uh awkward scale spot, you know, between kind of the the subsistence idea of the homestead self-sufficiency, if you will, versus a true salaried, um, a salaried enterprise where you're making your full-time living from you know from the farm.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it is an awkward place.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like being a toddler, you know, you can't quite stand up and you and and you don't feel comfortable crawling around anymore, you know, and so you're kind of in this awkward space.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, our culture right now doesn't embrace that space either, you know, from from a culture, and this is I think part of your question here is this this identity, uh, where do you where do you find yourself?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a little bit like uh like um like apprentices in our culture.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, in Europe they have they have massive and uh respected places for apprentices in our culture.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, you're either a student or you're an employee.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's not a there's not a place for this this kind of um this kind of in-between spot.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, to to start with, is is this good or bad?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fabulous.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I wish we had a million of you.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um be because then the fact that you're you're doing this for a year, um, you're gonna give it a go for a year and see how things go, realize that um, you know, this is you know, this is young, that this is new.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And um the the one, the greatest equity that anybody can ever have is experience.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you're getting experience now, and you'll know at the end of a year or two, you'll know, do we want to move this?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do we want to move this uh uh bigger or do we want to uh move it smaller?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and there are reasons for both.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: There are reasons for both.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so um the the thing to do is to just enjoy it at this point, just like you would, you know, a toddler.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh enjoy that that awkwardness, embrace it, don't apologize for it, and and realize that you are absolutely part of the you know, part of the solution.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right now America has 35 million acres of lawn and 36 million acres housing and supporting recreational horses.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's 71 and and much of that acreage is very small.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, somebody has a horse in their you know back lot, that sort of thing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and I haven't even gotten to golf courses yet, so or soccer fields or football fields or whatever.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not opposed to that.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm just I'm just saying there are a lot of of miniature acreages, miniature acreage spots around the country.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: And when you, I appreciated you using the word stacking, when you stack these enterprises, you're you're thinking like an entrepreneur.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say, good on you.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're not thinking of, well, we're gonna raise A2A2 milk.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you've got uh different animals, chances are you're gonna develop into some great, great gardening space.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you got animals, you've got um you've got manure, and nothing grows food like uh uh manure, especially if it's composted.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um believe me, I'm your biggest fan, and I would encourage you to just let this play out.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Don't make 10-year projections.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh don't even make five-year projections, just just um make a you know, make plans for like four, five, six months down the road and just enjoy the journey, let it play out.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: You are absolutely um an integral and big part of the food system and especially building, you know, neighborhoods and communities.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so you know, you're the kind of you're the kind of person that every urbanite right now, worried about their food supply, wants to live next door to.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's a grammatical sentence, next door to.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're not supposed to end the sentence with a prep, but you get what I'm saying.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're the kind of neighbor a lot of people would love to have because you know there is additional security.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: So don't apologize for a thing, embrace it, enjoy where you are, enjoy the journey, enjoy the learning time, and you will come out on the other side of this with a with a much greater direction.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: I I think too that it's uh I'll conclude with this.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's important for everybody to understand uh from the sound of your your um from the sound of your question and your story, it sounds like you probably were able to buy this little place home, uh, you know, debt free.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, and and I think it's astounding what you can live on if you're debt free.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you grow your own food and you um have your own uh heat with a you know a solarium, maybe some passive solar, maybe you hook a hoop house up next to your back door and you know with a squirrel cage fan with solar a solar panel on top, you you know, blow hot air into your house.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's there's tons of ways to very low tech uh uh become almost uh heat heat and cool independent and also food independent.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And if you then uh are are out of debt and you are growing your own food, having your own heat, uh, and you can live very, very cheaply, especially if you're healthy.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um so don't uh whatever, don't sell short the value of all of that as a leadership example.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are hundreds of thousands, millions of people in our culture who would give their eye teeth to have to have accomplished where you are.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I congratulate you and uh encourage you to just stay the course, learn what learn what you're gonna learn in a year, uh, cut those expenses down as far as you can.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let that be a let that be a um whatever, let that be a goal, you know.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: How cheaply can we live?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, when Teresa and I started, a lot of people don't realize, you know, we lived for years on, you know,$300 a month.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: We drove a$50 car, we lived in the attic of the farmhouse, and uh, and today we are enjoying that early frugality.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're still very, very frugal.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but but uh you'll never you'll never regret uh what this what this toddler time does for you.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for the question.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now she had another question here, Zina.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: She did.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, can I add in something to that one?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because I this question resonated with me as well, because um when you talk about like homesteaders, for instance, I've often wondered like where do I fit in?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't, you know, it's this whole question of identity.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we tend to in our culture try to identify with different groups and then fit in with them.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a tribal desire, right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when people would talk about, oh, like homesteaders of America, you know, our good friend Um Amy Fuel, I'm I love her to pieces.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to her, I'm like, well, I'm not really a homesteader, so I almost feel like I'm infiltrating some group I'm not supposed to be involved in, right?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and it really is kind of on the subconscious level too, where I'm thinking, um, do I have almost a right to call myself a homesteader or intermingle with them?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and part of that um I realized because, you know, when I found that fantastic homesteading group in Georgia, I was asking for permission.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a group of women that come together, homesteaders, and share what they're passionate about, teach each other.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, what am I going to be able to teach them?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually asked for permission.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Could I actually join your group?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you let someone like me into this group?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, well, of course.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you are already a homesteader in a sense.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I already have the mentality.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm already trying to garden, I'm trying to grow medicinals, like, you know, I'm not, I'm not that successful every time at gardening, but it's still like this whole mentality that you have.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And they embrace that and welcome it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's okay to be like, I'm not um, like if it's a scale of a zero to 10, like this continuum, right?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And you're you're at the 10, Joel, it's okay that I'm not a one.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like we did in our book, Beyond Labels.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's a continuum and praise yourself every time you take a step forward.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if it takes you a year to take one more step forward, that's okay.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a space for all of us because it is on a continuum.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we can try to encourage people to not think of them as these kind of inclusive or seclusive groups, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have to do X, Y, and Z, and then I'm called this, or I didn't do this, and I'm in this group, right?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's more of an inclusive thing to realize it really is just the continuum.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really comes down to more of a principle basis for me, right?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are your principles?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: What are you working toward?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know uh one thing that resonated with me about this identity question is um there is a piece out, I think it was June 19th in The Guardian, and they asked this question.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: They said bird flu is on the rise in the UK.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are chickens in the back garden to blame?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So now they're trying to blame chickens in the back garden.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: This you've talked about this, that uh people during the pandemic started to raise their own chickens, and now they're trying to blame backyard chickens for some, you know, bird flu.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and it started me thinking that, you know, even though I don't raise chickens, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I still would stand up and go fight for our right to raise chickens and fight against this clearly illogical conclusion that the Guardian and others are trying to get mainstream to grab onto so that they can further.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Control in our food supply and eliminate our ability to be self-sufficient.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, in that sense, I am a homesteader, right?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I am in favor of that mentality and we'll fight to the death for it.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And here we are, you know, I think I think it's good, Cena, to just point out here we are, you know, with the Beyond Labels podcast.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a question about a label.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where where do I label myself?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and I and I think we would both say, don't worry about the label.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Be very uh, you know, be very excited and enthusiastic about where you are on that continuum wherever it is.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to call yourself a small farmer, a susit a subsistence farmer, a a community food advocate, uh, a homesteader, a farmsteader, uh, you know, none of this matters.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: What matters is uh is our mentality, our attitude, and then our act our actions as a result of those intentional, uh, those intentional attitudes.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I and that's what I decided to do too.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and writing this book with you has helped me do that to kind of break free of these labels.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so now I have these set of a set of principles and I follow those.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you know what I do?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I try to do, Joel, and these are my best days that I have.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wake up in the morning and I um pray to God and I ask him, What do you want me to do today?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that sets my agenda.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of trying to fit into other people's labels or boxes that, or you know, agendas that other people might have, um, I just tap into intuition and talk to God about it and ask what he wants me to do.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that helps me actually break free from the labels and realize it is okay to be wherever I am, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I'm following my calling from God, which is what in Christine's email that she sent in, that's what I felt like when I was right reading it, is that she's really listening to her calling.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the most important part, right?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to the calling.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then who cares where you fall into these um man-made labels, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Listen to your calling, follow that, and you're gonna be rewarded, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh true to yourself, all that sort of thing.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I think we have time uh quickly for one other of her questions.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so this question, equally as amazing, uh, under cultural nuances.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: She says, and this is Christine again.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: She says, I know Joel meets farmers from all different cultural backgrounds.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to hear his observations on how our upbringing and culture contributes to or detracts from farming.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: For example, it's obvious there aren't many Asian Americans in farming.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't blame that on discrimination at all.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: In my understanding, it is cultural.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Very few, if any, Asian American parents would ever encourage their kids into farming.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: My own mom didn't understand why we chose this path, though she does support us.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Funnily, she thought we were both, quote unquote, becoming Amish when I told her that we were starting a farmstead.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: But really, the only point of context she had for people who actually wanted to farm versus the Asian mentality that only the extremely poor or uneducated are farmers were the Amish that we had visited in Lancaster.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: In her mind, no one else with education would ever choose to be a farmer.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I'd love to see more Asian Americans in farming because I think there's so much to contribute from any culture.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: How do we approach this?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Should this be important?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: What are the discussions we can be having?
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we alter mindsets and stereotypes?
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she got she knows you, Joel.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's got your number.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: I read this question and I was like, this is perfect for Joel.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, well, um uh I my my my first reaction is it ain't just Asian Americans.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's basically a first uh, if I could say it's a first world problem.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and and I'm not I'm not trying to demean second world, third world, I'm just trying to, you know, people understand what I'm saying.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: When we the the the sophisticated the rich the rich world, um uh it's a it's a real it's a real problem.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's a yeah, it's absolutely a cultural problem.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, so there but but but there are there are things, um uh for example, you know, I'm friends with with numerous um uh African American farmers.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: They struggle with the same thing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if if they go into farming, their family says, well, you want to go back to slavery, you know, so so there are these cultural nuances um uh throughout.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the white community, it's more um just uh it's it's considered um um uh intellectually marginal to be a farmer, you know, and and I think in the in the in the African-American community, it's it's uh it's going back to you know uh uh exploitation.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: And in the Asian community, it's um it's not embracing the uh the grasp of new whatever socioeconomic um uh climbing the socioeconomic ladder, you know.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you have that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: But listen, this is something new.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: When I saw this, the first thing I thought about was in the in the old testament in the Bible, in Jeremiah chapter 52, verse 16, uh it says, but uh this is after the the fall of Jerusalem, the Israelites have been captured and go to Babylon, and the captain of the guard left, listen to this, left certain of the poor of the land for vine dressers and for husbandmen.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: So so in the Babylonian captivity of Israel, it's the it's the poor of the land, the derelicts, the you know, the marginal that are left as the farmers.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so that this this goes back, Sina, a long, long time.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I would just uh I would simply respond to this um with the idea that that that caring for creation um I mean i if you go back to the beginning, you know, Adam and Eve, you know, they were they were caretakers of the garden, right?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: Garden of Eden.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, at the end in Revelation, you know, uh the end is going to be a garden.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um, so we we we we see this this uh the bookends, if you will.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so there is certainly nothing demeaning uh about that.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um uh most of most of Jesus' parables and stories revolved around agrarianism and farming and and and uh animals and things like livestock and things like that.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So um you know, I I think the important thing is to understand that we are not just growing stuff as farmers.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um we we are we are viscerally viscerally caressing and touching our ecological womb that God gave us.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, it's an incredible privilege and an honor to walk out every day and realize I'm participating in this magnificent uh uh drama, this magnificent theater of of provision, of provenance.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't get to just talk about it, I don't get to just read about it, I don't just get to watch YouTube about it.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I get to actually participate in it.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And on our farm, I can tell you we spend a great time with this persona of these young people who come as stewards and apprentices and on our team that we're not we're not in the chicken business.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we are, but but we're not just in the chicken business, we're not just in the cow business, we're not in the the tomato business, we're not in the apple business.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we we are stewards of something more mysterious and more magnificent than any of us could ever imagine.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so we take that as a very sacred, as a very sacred thing.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we need to pepper our language.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: I would encourage Christine and talking to her family and things, I would encourage you to pepper your language with that kind of sanctity, if you will, that that that sanctity of of provision and place and opportunity to caress our ecological womb.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And not everybody gets to do that, you know.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about all the people that pay big money to go to nature, nature retreats and hikes and and and and all that stuff, right?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we get to do this every day.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and people actually pay us to do this, and so uh so we just need to elevate that sacredness of what we do.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you're not gonna get rich.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have no desire to get rich.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but what I what I am rich, I am rich in this tremendous um um uh self-affirmation of being able to step as a participant into visceral caretaking.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's a that's a profound uh calling.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned yeah, I like that you use the word calling, Cena, but that that's a profound calling and a profound opportunity.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's both um it's both inspiring, it's it's high, it it it speaks of a lot of responsibility, but it also speaks of a tremendous privilege.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and so uh so I I embrace both of those.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that the language and your attitude toward it in that regard um can can help you realize that you've got a you've got a really neat um a neat place of of ministry and mission on your farm.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I would add, so her last question is how do we alter mindsets and stereotypes?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would add two things real quickly.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um Joel, Joel and I previously recorded a podcast, I think it was called Can Seed Save Our Republic, something like that, where we talked about the founding fathers and how um what their perception was of farmers.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we quoted from them about how they thought that farmers are really the last stronghold um for our fight for freedom here, not just food freedom, but freedom as you know a nation, um, and just how valuable the farmer is.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And once you lose the farmer, you lose the nation.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's one approach that I've used with people who people who not everybody loves the founding era and the founding fathers, right?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: But people who I know that do resonate with that area, I have used the quotes from the founders to try to teach them that you know, our view of farmers now is so skewed from what it was at the beginning, the founding of this nation.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to move back to that to really save this republic.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I use the founders' quotes.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing I do to help change mindsets and stereotypes is I start with my own family, particularly my children.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: So this would be something that I would encourage.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would invite um parents, grandparents to do this if it resonates with them, is I start changing that perception for my own children.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I teach my children to respect the farmers, to not to respect the land, you know, the animals, the whole ecosystem, but also to respect and to value their farmers.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: One way is just through teaching them about food, where it comes from, but also to take them to the farms.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've been, I take my kids to polyface, right?
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: We've we've roasted hot dogs with you in the fire pit and um to have that bond with the farmer.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and if you're not that close to the farmer, at least take them to a farm somewhere, right?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some kind of farm, so they can see the food growing from themselves.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they can see something other than the monocroach monocrops that are grown on the sides of the freeways, you know, the rows and rows of corn that are supposedly, you know, organic.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um so teach them in your own kitchen, teach them by showing them, taking a field trip to where, like an actual good farm, preferably regenerative farm.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then also something that takes such little time as maybe sending an email to thank a farmer or picking up the phone to call your local farmer, just any farmer in the area that stands with your principals, and just thank them, right?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Send a little note, send a little um voice message of thanking them for what they do.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because um, while I am not a farmer myself, I know from chatting with you, Joel, and from the statistics of the suicide rates among farmers, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: High.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and the and I I'm aware, acutely aware of our cultural disposition towards farmers and how it's more negative.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So anything we can do to start with our own children, right?
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: The the current generation, um, to change this overall mindset.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of this is going to begin with the children.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sure is.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: It sure is.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: So again, thanks for the questions.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: We're always appreciative of the feedback.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we thank you for joining us on this uh podcast and look to forward to seeing you next time.