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A Fitting and Glorious End | Benito Mussolini · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_03: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to season one, episode 10 of Beheaded.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: And we are gonna be talking about Italian dictatorship today.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about Benito Armicare Andrea Mussolini today.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know who that is.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh good lord.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it's starting.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_03: I got all the names today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: In case you didn't catch that, it's Mussolini.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth is literally shimmying over here.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Shimmy in my chest.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, you're limited to the to the number of times you're using a really bad Italian accent.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: We did practice our sound check with some Italian names to get us warmed up, though.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Are we sharing this to the public?
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: What are we doing?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, our soundcheck is interesting afterwards.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we'll do a repeat of it.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know what to say in soundcheck.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: We just say nonsensical things or shout weird things to each other.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: And today Sometimes we just like make animal noises too.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: We just stare at each other, and my neighbors who probably hear us think, oh my god, these people are crazy.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_03: Every two weeks, these girls.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: They're meowing.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And then I said today to Megan, I was like, uh, let's do Italian names today to get us in the mood.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: And she goes, What'd you say?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Sauce.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, we started with like parmesan.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Parmagan.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then we just started saying a bunch of Italian food names.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, sauce.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Sauce.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: Maria Maria.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: What's it called?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Marinero.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Marineroce.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: So we did a thorough quality soundtrack check.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: I love Italian dictatorship, so this is gonna be fun.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: This is gonna be great.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: I love dictators in general, so this is gonna be a lot of fun.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but we are jumping ahead because we don't want to keep you hanging with who we're gonna talk about today, but we always start with a little bit of banter.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: So um Peruge.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Per huge, but a couple, you have at least one follow-up from the last episode, right?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: So um listening to the last episode Socrates.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Socrates.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: Socrates.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: Socrates.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to our philosophy.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I know.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: That got a little uh not deep, because I don't want to say I got deep.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was um philosophical.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to say I'm really proud of myself for not cutting out half of your lessons.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was no, it was really educational, and I'm sure some people got a good idea.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: It was a light, a light dabble because obviously philosophy is very complex.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: There's many layers, so it's hard to just like summarize it and like, oh, this means this.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: We, you know, we did our best.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to thank me because I'm in charge of editing.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: I can take out anything.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: You want to say Elizabeth is whoa, was that a silent sneeze?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Just silently sneezed really well.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Did you hear?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: She sneezed and we had no idea.
• 2:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: Elizabeth is sick.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a little sick.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: We've we've both been a little under the weather.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone in the office is, I'm sure everyone out there is, because coronavirus is everywhere.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, where is in Arizona?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Our office is in Tempe.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's in Tempe, which is like the third uh whatever finding in the US of coronavirus.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: So everyone's actually been terrified in Tempe.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's paranoid.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: People walk around with masks.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was traveling a bit, and so people were like, Are you gonna wear a mask on the plane?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so it should have been like a couple weeks of just awfulness.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like I was sick for probably a solid week, and then I had a lingering cold.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Then I got like violently ill for like 24 hours.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not only all of this, but you ran a marathon in the middle of that, and you have another marathon in two weeks.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, let me okay.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: Let me take a breath.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we're like really on level 10 right now, and we've I've interrupted myself about three times.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we will get to Socrates.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: But first, I feel like this is cool to say.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um for those who probably don't know this because we've never talked about it before.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth is a hardcore marathoner.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not even but I'm not even exaggerating.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't say hardcore, like I'm not a Boston qualified person.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's not like I'm a pro athlete by any.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you do a ton of marathons.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I do marathons casually.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Casually, every two weeks.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: For fun.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I do a few a year, and not, you know, but this is my marathon season, and getting sick during marathon season is the closest thing to death you could probably ever do.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you have such a cool goal because your goal is to do a marathon in every single state in the country.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 50 before I'm 50.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you're at what, 11?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this was 11.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to New Orleans.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, me and my boyfriend went to New Orleans last weekend and did number 11, and I have number 12, Little Rock, coming up in two weeks.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then us.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then Megan and I are both going to the sports.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'm making her do a half marathon.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, there's no way.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: I can't even run three miles.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: I said I could do this.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm dreading it.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: I made her a training schedule, but started today.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, tomorrow.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: It starts in two days.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Do not get on my ass about this.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna text her every morning.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I have my own coach and I'm really dreading it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be great.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: She already made an Excel sheet of my running schedule.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: But a half a half marathon is 13.1 miles.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I've ran the max of four so far.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's all you need.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: You literally you start with three and you build from there.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like it's fine.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be totally fine.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really only going because I want to go to Nashville and drink.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, no, that's the best part about like traveling for marathons because you are so guilt-free.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like, usually on vacation, you're like, oh, I feel so like slumpy and I'm eating a lot, I'm drinking a lot, and whatever.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: But when you go, you just are like, I'm gonna run a marathon, so I gotta just eat a chance.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: You just want to eat barbecue.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: And then afterwards you're like, well, I ran a marathon, so I gotta eat everything.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just ultimate excuse, like get it out of jail free card of like, I need to eat 6,000 calories today.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: You just have to.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just I guess I have to eat four lunches of barbecue.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I keep charge.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the best.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I don't know.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: You're sick, we're in the middle of mirror on that, but we're marathon season.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's marathon season.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: We might have coronavirus.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: We might have married.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: No, we don't have it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: We don't.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know that.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: So we're working, we're working as best we can.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And we we wanted to tee that up by saying we don't have anything today that's like Mussolini themed.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have Italian food, we don't have like Italian wine.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I made tomato soup for myself before that counts.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of Italian.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: Marinero tomato soup.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but but we do have ginger ale and rum because we feel like we still needed a drink and we also wanted to be healthy.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: The way you just even saying that out loud makes it sound disgusting.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: No ginger ale and rum.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: What's in Megan's pantry?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's more or less.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think ginger ale goes with anything, very honestly.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: The ginger ale is to settle the it's good on your throat, settles the stomach.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: And the rum is to make you podcast well.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: So well, last time I my my biggest critic is my husband, Jake.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: And last time I said, Well, what did you think of Socrates?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: He goes, You sound a drunk through all of it.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I actually wasn't drunk at all.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I was, so I'm just kidding.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, we no, Megan was not.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: I can vouch for her.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we don't get sloppy drunk on those podcasts, just in case you're wondering.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is just our personality.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is just who we are.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we, you know, we have a drink every podcast.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes into the second drink.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes we we have to record multiple times.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: No, I just kidding.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: We've never re-recorded anything.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes when Megan's so drunk she deletes the whole podcast, we gotta go again.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, but uh anyway, so here we are today talking about Mussolane.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't think there was any other follow- Oh, wait, no, hello, Socrates follow up.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: Socrates, I think.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went on a tangent off of a tangent off of a tangent, but we had a follow-up.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: So in our last episode about Socrates, um, we were talking about his final last words, and it was Credo, we owe a cock to Asclepius, don't forget to pay it.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_03: Or something along those lines, because again, it's ancient Greek and that's a loose um translation.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: But so we were saying, we were like, Oh, who's this guy?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is he a neighbor?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's a funny thing to say before you die.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_03: So we were looking into kind of the theories surrounding what this would mean.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: And again, we don't want to throw a bunch of philosophy at you like we did last last episode, but there are essentially two or three main theories.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_03: One is that this was um, in fact, like his last attempt to be someone of integrity, to be like, you know what, I want to prove before I die.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: This is like I am someone who will always pay my debts.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's boring.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: It is like that's like the boring.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: I that's why I did it first.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I said it first.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's like, okay, sure, maybe in your last moments you just think, I want no debts unpaid.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: I want everyone to know that I was fairly.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's the last thing I would be thinking about.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: But he's also pompous, so maybe that's basically like modern day, like, oh, my my last credit card statement, make sure you pay that.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, I've got other things to think about, right?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe it was more like, oh, and my check to the charity, don't forget to cash it.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like that kind of thing.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Fake.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway, that was that's just one theory.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's very pretty straightforward.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, another theory, and we talked about this in last episode too, that Asclepius was the god of like healing and of medicine.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: So he's saying we owe something to him.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: So almost like he has given me a quick and easy death, thus, I owe him something.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I owe this god something for this easy exit he's giving me.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that could be looked at as two ways.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, one, I just owe him something.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Two, they were saying maybe this means that they were gonna sacrifice a cock for the god.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_03: So saying, Oh, like, you know, make sure to go kill a cock in honor of this god.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we owe him a cock, don't forget to do that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, a little bit more reasonable.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, but also.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: But then he also not believe in the case.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was just gonna say.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was one of his charges, was in piety.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: So don't blame it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: Those are the biggest ones.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: There's no there's no that's it.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it was like it was like one, two, and two B.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because it was either uh I think it's code.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's like a conspiracy theory, and it's code for something.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't find anything deeper.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: So if you guys know that conspiracy.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, wait, there is one more that just came on Wikipedia published by Megan Moore.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's going viral.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, so if you have any uh you know other interpretations of this, please let us know.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: But this is what we found.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: So cool.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: Back to you with Laney.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I have no, I have one more update I forgot.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, Arizona Renaissance Festival.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yes, as you've we've told you, we are in Arizona, and we have one of the biggest Renaissance fairs here.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's so much fun.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: I love Renaissance fairs.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I started going, I think, oh, the year was 2013.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: I remember I rented a dress, which I rookie.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: Rookie move, but I would still encourage you to if if you're if you don't want to commit to buying anything.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the rentals are honestly kind of expensive, but how much is the rental usually?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was like$50.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: You might as well buy something off Amazon, but the quality is more like renaissance.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I bought something on Amazon and it was probably$30 and it's not very renaissance y, but it passes.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um it gets dirty, so yeah, no, it gets dirty, but I love Renaissance fairs.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've only been to a few, but every year I try to hit the Arizona one.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: My first one I I've always been to was the one in Irwindale, California.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: The Pleasure Fair.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: Pleasure fair.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it always sounds creepy.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: The Pleasure Fair.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: I love Pleasure Fairs.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's the original Renaissance Fair in the U.S.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's is that the largest one?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: Do we know for sure?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: We we were talking to a vendor at the Ren Fair in A Z last year, and they said that I think that one was the largest.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Arizona might be second.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_03: Texas has a big one.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: I know that.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know Wisconsin actually has a big one.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um I I really want to go to more, honestly.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've been to the San Luis Los Obispo, the Central Coast Fair, I think they call it.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Don't you subscribe to Renfair magazine?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_03: What you don't?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, not yet.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: Getting there.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't, you should, because they have some good content.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, if you don't, I really need another coach.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: I love those.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: I re- they normally Barnes and Noble will sell them, but you can also subscribe.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not promoting Barnes and Noble right now.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um headed 10 at checkout at Barnes and Noble.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: No, don't tell some that too.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try it and then get complains and it'll be a thing.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Don't not yet.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, no, I love reading the the Renfare magazine from like start to cover from what do you call it, cover to cover, because there's really fun articles about just like random like tutor history and renaissance history and things on like warfare and armor, but then also like features on the Joe stuff.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: But there's all like fun little articles in there, and they normally highlight a state's Renaissance fair in most issues.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty cool.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the back, there's a list of every like Renaissance fair and the dates, so you can kind of make your schedule, anyways.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you can plan your tour.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, like I do.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty cool.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, Elizabeth and I will be there.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're gonna go on the on what March 14th.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: March 14th is our date, and we're thinking of going with a few other girlfriends.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_03: We'll have a little band of our executionato troupe.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so good at forcing people to go to the rent fair.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think we became friends?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's literally how we became friends.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I forced you to come.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um I'm really good at the rent fairing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't done anything.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: I hadn't been since I was a kid because I grew up in Colorado, and our Ren Fair was probably like an hour, hour and a half away from where I grew up, and it was more like the woods kind of like the mountains.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember it was really cool, but it was more like tense and kind of temporary stuff thrown up.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: The one in Arizona is really cool because that's all like structures that have been.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a really cool location.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love watching the jousters.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Sir Maximilian will always be my number one jouster.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: He's handsome.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: He is handsome.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Also, Sir Edron, I'm always see, gosh, my nerdness is coming out when I have my I have favorite jousters.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: We'll put a lot on our stories on Renfare days.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: I will.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll do a little story of the case.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: I will never show my face, so good luck knowing who I am.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's the thing.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna be able to find us.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why I'm telling you come find us at this date.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna know what we'll do.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: We'll post like a picture of like us walking away from the back.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, oh wait, that's them.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's what they're wearing.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't know if we'll show our faces because very private people.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: We are.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we don't let's talk about Italian dictatorship now, talking about privacy and yeah, whatever.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um Mussolini.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Mussolini.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Mussolini.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: So Benito Mussolini.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we'll get into all the details as we do, mostly focusing on his death and execution.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but we just wanted to start off by um saying a little bit.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: She's raising her hand, so I'm letting her go.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: Mussolini was an Italian politician.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yes, there we go.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: Socrates is a philosopher.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, she nails her research.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Really good.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know I wanted to start off by saying our the interpretations from our significant others.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that was cute.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, so we asked both, you know, Megan's husband, my boyfriend.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which by the way, my boyfriend's name is Robbie, just so we know.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: I know, I really say my boyfriend, and it just takes too many words, so I'm gonna start calling.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of snuck in Jake's name one day and I like revealed his identity.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: But now it's already But now I just say Jake.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So people know it's Jake.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so Jake and Robbie, so you know their names.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we asked Jake when he was leaving this evening, we're like, hey Jake, like, what do you do about Mussolini?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes, Well, pretty sure it was a dirt bag.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, okay, great.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_03: Walks out the door.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was a dirt bag.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's good.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's very astute.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's funny because before I left uh to podcast, I asked um Robbie, I was like, hey, I was like, you know Mussolini, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: He goes, Yeah, he's Italian.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: And Robbie is Italian, and that's what's so funny.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Very Italian.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: We've referenced this before, but he's from New York, like family from Brooklyn, before that, from Sicily and Naples, very Italian.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: So he's like, yeah, he's Italian.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Two very different.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's a dirtback.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's Italian.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, oh my boy Mussolini.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um Mussolini was born in 1883.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: 1883.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And this actually makes him the most modern person we've talked about on this podcast.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: More modern than the Roman odds.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I mean, obviously, you know, hello, he dies.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_03: But um, at the end of his life, it was 1945.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: So very much the most modern one.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um kind of like we don't have so much about his early, early childhood besides well, yeah, a little bit about a little bit, yeah.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: A little bit about like Catholicism and upbringing.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So his his mom was a teacher, actually a Catholic school teacher, and his dad was a blacksmith, and he was also a very strong socialist.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so he was really raised with like strong socialist beliefs, um, which is funny because fascism, as we learn, is more of an anti-socialist type of movement.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: But in his young days, there wasn't such a thing as fascism, really.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: He founded kind of Italian fascism.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so back in the day, uh, he was more socialist in his leanings, and he was a very good student at school in terms of grades, but not in terms of behavior.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: He was an asshole.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: Shocking.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: They're not.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's weird that the asshole kids become dictators.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um but uh uh shuffling papers around.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so he was uh very much a bully in school.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: He got into fights, he was known to like stab people with pens and pencils and things.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, he was very yeah, he was just cute.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: He was just an asshole.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: Little little Mussolini, just stabbing kids on the playground.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_03: So he he moved into a career in teaching after he graduated because he was so smart.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um he was actually an elementary school master in 1901.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So could you talk about the worst teacher you could ever get?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like oh, I got Mussolini for my fifth grade class.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, who's teaching your Italian history, honey?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mussolini.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's the worst.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's basically a dictator in the classroom.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: So all the early warning signs were there.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but again, he was very smart, he was uh very again philosophical and had a lot of a lot of strong socialist beliefs.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: So people did listen to him, like he was someone to reckon with, but you know, not the most well-liked.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um so 1901 becomes uh a teacher essentially, or at least a headmaster, schoolmaster, whatever you want to call it, of a small school in Italy.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_03: Then in 1903, he uh actually left Italy to go to Switzerland because he didn't want to go to the military.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there he was really active in the Italian socialist movement.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um he started spreading the propaganda and just really promoting these ideas.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it wasn't until 1905 where he came back to uh Italy and was essentially forced at that point to go into the the military.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: So he was only he only served in the military for two years at that point, but still very much much a socialist, even throughout his time um with the military.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_03: He was kind of writing essays on socialism, he even published a novel on socialism.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: He was part of the Italian Socialist Party or the PSI at the time.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um in 1917, while he was in the army, he was actually wounded.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then he really started denouncing socialism though, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: He was his whole thing was I mean, again, this is um actually, I'm sorry, this is like between 1912 and 1917.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so this is so this is World War One at this point.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: And his whole philosophy was Italy needed to get more involved in the warfare of World War One, and which was very like anti-socialist to because they're very neutral and like not pro-war.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So that's when he really started out speaking and starting to realize maybe I'm not a socialist.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And he actually got kicked out of the socialist party, uh, out of the PSI.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: They gave him the boot.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so he really took a stand for kind of more like authoritarian tactics and being powerful and entering into war into conquering other lands.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: He started to like shift his philosophy from again the socialist socialistic beliefs to more of a like totalitarian like mindset.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's funny too because he um uh uh himself like one thing that you've noticed about Mussolini like as he grows up is he doesn't really side with many things that don't seem to be in his benefit.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like his own.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: So he kind of creates everything just out of his own selfish purposes, which I guess as humans we all kind of do.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: He's definitely a leader though and not a follower.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like he wants to be known for his beliefs, but he always kind of wish is wishy-washy back and forth between what he believes because it's all about just what's popular then, what's gonna get him the most like you know, followers and listeners and whatever.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's kind of like an influencer.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how many followers can I get?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Without saying that, I oh god, yeah.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, he he truly is though.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, he's just for his own selfish purposes, like, okay, well, I'm a socialist and these are my social beliefs.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I'm more militant and these are my beliefs.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I'm just an asshole and I just want to be a big thing.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to be a dictator, really.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: So 1922, he becomes the youngest Italian prime minister up to that time.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I think there's been younger prime ministers since, but at that time in 1922, he was what, like 39, I think.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, I haven't done the math.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just did the math off the top of my head.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, look at you.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Not written down.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: Not written down.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and he did this by the march on Rome.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: So there was another prime minister in Rome, and he and his followers actually stormed Rome.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_03: They stormed the Prime Minister and they literally just like took power.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: So they began to send uh set up a new government, basically being like, all right, end of the end of that your era, we are starting something new here.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so come 1922, 23, they start just like slowly passing laws and slowly doing things again to please lots of parties, to please the nationalists, the liberals, um, and make people trust him.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's slowly just becoming this like takeaway of power from all the other kind of sure.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: He was leaning towards a a totalitarian totalitarian.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: Totalitarianism.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Totalitari.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: I can't say that word.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Totalitarian state.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: A totalitarian state.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Sause.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is also in his can we call it a reign?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like a reign of power.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and just quick side note too.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: He was like a huge um admirer of Imperial Russia.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Huge admirer of Nikki?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_03: Of Nikki.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, not so much the downfall, but you know, I wouldn't say he loved him as a leader, but he loved the idea of Imperial Russia.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: And he also loved, no duh, Julius Caesar.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: So he wanted to be the next Caesar.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_03: Same.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: So again, who isn't?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_03: My influencer in life.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: So he um, you know, really wanted to become the next Caesar, the next, uh, not Nikki Romanoff, but successful Romanov.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: He wanted to have this um like God-given right to rule.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: He wanted to expand his lands, he wanted to be a conqueror and very much a dictator.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: So he did all these things, put these things in place, made people think he was a certain way or believed in certain things just to get the favor of everyone.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: So by the mid-20s, he's like, all right, pretty much a dictatorship now.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he created the like fascism, basically.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And he created the like Italian fascism.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Italian fascism.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Fascism.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And going just a little bit deeper, because we're gonna keep mentioning that, how he's a fascist and the fascist of Italy, and what that really idealized was um the biggest part was probably nationality, which sounds great in theory, but not in the way that they were doing it, because it it's kind of like communism, but not because fascism is they're a nationalist country where they believe that Italy needs to rise above, Italy needs to broaden their borders, like pro-Italy, everything is like bleeding your nationality, um, which is very race-driven, versus communism, which is very economic driven.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: So in communism, they want their focus more on everybody having equal um uh economic levels.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Versus to like level the playing field economically.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: Versus like a racial and I wouldn't even say racial, I would say more national because um he did obviously, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, um, at a certain point he starts to align with Hitler.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and Hitler obviously is very about like his Aryan race being superior to others.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't so much about like, oh, the Italian race is better.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: He was more saying that Italian citizens are better than everyone.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: So even if you were like an Italian citizen.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: The nationality of being just an Italian in general.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so like it didn't matter where you were from Italy, if you were a Jewish person in Italy, if you were a Catholic, non-Catholic, like it didn't matter about anything else, like racial, religious, whatever.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: If you were Italian, you were you were better than everybody.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um fascism is also Robbie believes that as well.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure he does.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure he does.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um they are very these words.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Militarist militant.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Militant Militant is a good word to use.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Militaristic, is that a word?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think so, yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_03: Militant is a better word.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I thought I made it up for half a second.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: But they were very military driven, I can say it that way.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they also there was another part of fascism, and I'm losing my train of thought.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: No, so it's it's part nationalism and it's part authoritarian.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think there's really there's a lot of the things I felt like there were more layers to it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, there are more layers, but a lot of it's kind of disputed.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like there's debates as to what makes fascist fascism, but the two fundamentals are you are nationalist and you are authoritari authoritative.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: And there's only one political party.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's your other point.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I went.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: I did my homework.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that that's yeah, so they're stripping away all their political political parties, setting up your society very much for dictatorship.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're like, oh, one political party, one ruler.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Dictatorship.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: Dictatorship.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Mussolini.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: He was an Italian politician.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: And in the late 20s, too, he also starts like a movement towards Italy's youth.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: So he starts like taking control of some of the schools, and he already obviously has connections with the school because he was a schoolmaster at one point.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: So he starts to like implement doctrine into the young Italians.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that's why Italians are so prideful of being Italian.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like Robbie should have been our guest speaker, I feel like.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, we just need to.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, we had Elena for the Romanovs.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: He could have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: So uh Mussolini, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm pretty sure he's Italian, but uh, yeah, he's a good Italian.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: I actually talked to him about this because I told him, I was like, maybe, you know, if you want to just stop by and lend your voice for a few things, you got a pretty good, you know, New York Italian accent.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_03: And he goes, Yeah, but like I'd rather be in your mob executions when you got those.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_03: Those aren't like formal executions, but those that's actually just murder at that point.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was like, Yeah, sure, maybe, maybe season two, we have mob executions.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: We'll look into it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: We'll table that idea.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: All right, all right, table it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: I know we have a lot of ideas we've thrown out, but we we'll get to them.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, speaking of tabled ideas, not to throw us you know too far into it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_03: We go on tangents.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: We've promised you guys some things that we're very aware of, and like they're coming.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: We've talked about our our doctor segment, and we're pressuring him again.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um We are gonna have doctors on here.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna I want more guest speakers too.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're totally interesting.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we have been in touch with some, so again, we will see what makes sense.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, because it really is just about like again art content matched with timing of people.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, all the hard stuff.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get there.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get there.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, okay, so power, dictatorship, fascism.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: The year is 1940.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: Mussolini, prime minister, he enters Italy into World War II.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: And he aligns Italy with Nazi Germany.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: So he's part of Italy.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is going back to like hardcore high school history, but the Axis powers, Germany, Italy, Japan.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um so, yeah, so that's right.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: So he becomes very aligned with Hitler.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he's an admirer of Hitler, and again, not so much of the um philosophy or the anti-Semitism or any of that.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, as we mentioned before, it's not really that he has these like crazy beliefs that he wants to instill, he just wants power, and he will do that through whatever means.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of what he thinks and says is very contradictory of things he's thought and said in the past.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: So he's always studied Hit Hitler and admired him mostly for his use of propaganda, for the way he spoke to crowds.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at watching Mussolini's speeches, his hand is a helicopter about to fly off.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny if you watch like videos of Hitler and videos of Mussolini, because Hitler's obviously like he's always projecting his hand high up and he's doing he's doing kind of the high like Heil Hitler type of thing with his hands.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Very big with his emotions.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: And then if you watch Mussolini, he's like fli like using his hand like it's a little windmill, and he's just like it's literally spinning off like it's Italian gestures on crack.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: On crack.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: So he he's very into the theatrics of speaking and using the right metaphors and using all these things to kind of seduce people.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so again, he he really is admiring Hitler for those things, and they don't even align that much on their beliefs, other than they both just want power and they want power.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it all comes down to.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the part that sucks is Italy actually wasn't doing that great during World War II.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's been a lot of people.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: And they were gonna fail.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's ironic because he was so militant and so pro, you know, authority and military and all that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yet his actual military was super outdated.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like they didn't invest in them very much, so they're failing at war.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like they can't secure their borders, they try to invade other places like the Romans did and just can't.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Just can't.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so the Allied invasion of Sicily happens in 1943, yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: Also called Operation Husky.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the Allies of World War II, this was basically the United Nations.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So this was everybody who was standing up against the Axis powers.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: The Axis powers.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they arrest Mussolini in 1943.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, not for long.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: German paratroopers come in and swipe him out.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he was held at like a ski lodge.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds kind of nice.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they like they held him.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think it was, I don't know if it was Australian.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know where they held him, but it was at a ski lodge.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah, sure enough, like they think they helicoptered in like paratroopers that swept.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: I can just visualize this.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's like a Bond movie on Her Majesty's secret stories.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Seriously, so he he's already arrested once, they almost have him.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: They s he slips through their their grips.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so he's rescued from prison by the German special forces.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um and at this point, Hitler makes him the lead, the leader of a German puppet state in Italy.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like uh basically, they've set they created a land in part of northern Italy that is under German rule.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, they're calling it part of Germany, but it's not Germany, and he's the leader of it, and Hitler assigned him.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_02: The whole thing gets kind of weird.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: So he's just carrying out Hitler's orders, essentially.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: So he's not making any more decisions by himself.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: He's literally just a puppet to Hitler.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: And he even says um uh to, I forget who it was, but he he's an interview in 1945, um, and he says, Seven years ago I was an interesting person.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now I am little more than a corpse.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like my diary.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like my 13.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: I was gonna say 13-year-old Mega is speaking right now.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: What is the 13 years ago?
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: So he he's even said that he would prefer to go to a concentration camp over his puppet status.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Good lord.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because probably visited all the concentration camps.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Poor me right now.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so he's being a little tween girl.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Tween girl because he can't rule his click and can't, you know, be the most popular girl in school anymore.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Hitler's cooler than I am.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um and he even said, and this is actually kind of a beautiful thing he wrote, which speaks to how smart he was, but again, how kind of dramatic he was as well.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um but he he said again in this interview, he said, I am finished, my star has fallen, I have no fight left in me.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: I work and I try, yet know it is all but a farce.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: I await the end of this tragedy, and strangely detached from everything, I do not feel anymore an actor.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: I feel I am the last of spectators.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: So very Again, where's my tiny violin right now?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: As millions of people are dying in concentration camps.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is a little sad.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: He's not as powerful.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um we're gonna fast forward a little bit and get to the juicy part.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: The juicy part.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we're leading up now right before his his execution.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: The date is April 27th, 1945.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: The Allies, again, these are everyone against the Axis powers, but this actually also included like the non-fascists of Italy.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_02: They were the partisans.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they were Italians, but they didn't agree with Mussolini.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: And the um the Allies put out a public notice, any of the fascist leaders will be caught and will be sentenced to death.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: And at this point, the Ally troops are kind of advancing into northern Italy as well.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like the fall is kind of eminent, you know.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Allies didn't just one day like put out a tweet like, hey, by the way, we're gonna get you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, obviously, that's what the war is.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like, everyone wants to get each other, but the allies are coming in strong.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And they have now taken over Rome.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: They've taken over uh Milan.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, he was in Milan.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: He yeah, Milan comes into play in a little bit.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, they are moving up north up to where Mussolini's at.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and Mussolini then decides he needs to get out of town.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: Out of there.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_02: Get out of dodge.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: Get out.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: So he is with his mistress.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: Of course you would take your mistress.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: His sweetheart, as some of the newsreels called her.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: His sweetheart, Clara Petacci.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Clor Cloretta Pata.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's how you say it, right?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: Petacci?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Petacci.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Cloretta Petachi.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's talk a little bit about Cloretta.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: I like something about me intrigued.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I was so intrigued by it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Can I just say it though?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_03: She's ugly.
• 34:31
  unknown: No!
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she is.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: Look at this picture.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: She looks like my grandmother.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: She's beautiful.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very 1940s.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, she looks much older than she is.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: She's only 33 at this point.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Moussolini's 61, so he's very much an old man.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: She's young, hot toddy.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: And well, not hot, because again, I think this picture's fairly ugly.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: She's like a poor man's Lucy.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Not even Lucy.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Lucy's gorgeous.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: This girl, hmm.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Lucy who?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: Lucy Oball.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: No, she doesn't look like Lucy O'Ball.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Meh, just bad.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to say Lucy O'Ball.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why Lucy.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_02: Lucy Ball.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: Anyways, I'll put a picture of her on Instagram so everybody has a vision of it.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can say hot or not.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: I think hot.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: You're judgmental.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, hot if she's like 50 in this picture.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: She looks so much older than she is.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: She's Italian.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: She's not my hey, just teasing.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_03: She's uh she's not my style.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'll just say that.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um she's uh yeah, she's 33, he's 61, and I it's kind of cute.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like he steals away with his mistress to run off in the night.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: So cute.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: About his wife.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's right after Valentine's Day.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'm kind of a romantic right now.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um He also, quick note, had many mistresses.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like he'd been married several times.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Mistress Pinterest.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: Close.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um no, so he like had a wife, had a mistress, then married that mistress, then while he was married to the mistress, had another mistress, had like several flings.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: He was all over the place.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: But it was funny because really quick rewind back to like how he gained kind of favor with different political parties.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: He tried to gain um favor by the church the church by saying, like, I'm anti-abortion, I'm anti-um birth control, I'm anti-adultery.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: He was like the biggest adulterer ever.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just kind of funny that he's like, again, now on to mistress number 25.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: 33.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: 33.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, fun fact, they rode off in a 1939 Alpha Romero sports car.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: Which is cool.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: That is a cool car.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he he gifted that to Claretta.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: So they run off in the night.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they're in Milan, they're running off to the Swiss border.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they're actually with a bunch of other fascist leaders as well, and they get so close.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: And they are in, it's called um, it's up near Lake Como, but it's in Dongo, if I'm saying that correctly.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we're talking very, very North Italy.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: So as they're trying to get in, they're in their getaway car basically, and they get stopped by the partisans.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because so Mussolini, at this point, they're all kind of like in a truck together, from what it sounds like.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And Mussolini is trying to disguise himself.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's wearing a Nazi helmet and a big coat.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, he's sitting in the back of the truck.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And at first, the partisans only notice another of the fascist leaders that's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, these are fascists, even though they're trying to disguise themselves as Germans, these are the Italians we're looking for.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: These are not the drones you're looking for.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: These that are not the ones.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it wasn't until a little bit later that you realized, whoa, whoa, whoa, I think we've got Mussolini in here as well.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he was pretty recognizable, which is funny because he promoted so much propaganda of himself and his freaking picture was everyone.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: Brookie move.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Rookie move.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's that's like a sweet key.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Ever show them who you are.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: So because he was an asshole narcissist who had his photo everywhere, people were like, wait a minute, your jawline.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've seen this guy before.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_03: I've seen him before.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or Jerry.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's always Jerry.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always referencing Jerry.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: You've seen this guy.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: He had like a shaved head.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like they could tell it was him.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: So jokes on you, Mussolini.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um Lazzaro.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Urbano Lazzaro.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Urbano Lazzaro.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was one of the Italian partisans in the group that caught Mussolini, and here's his description.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: He said his face was like wax and his stare glassy, but somehow blind.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: I read utter exhaustion, but not fear.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_02: Mussolini seemed completely lacking in will.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Spiritually dead.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like he gave up.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's like, ah, and that's what he's doing.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: The jig is up, boys.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he references that before.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's cute that he had one last little attempt with his sweetheart to flee, but he's essentially essentially dead inside.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Dead inside, spiritually dead.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so this is where things get super, super, I want to say controversial, more or less like just foggy.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's different accounts of what's happened.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: So much so, and part of the root cause is there's multiple people giving their accounts, and you know, it's like again, we've talked about this, like the telephone game of things just getting muddled and what actually happened.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, even so much so as like who actually executed them, who gave the execution order, which we'll get to, but was there like an actual sentence or something that said?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: What did Mussolini say?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_02: Some things start lining up, and some things they see a pattern, but they'll be this guy wrote this one thing down, but not this guy.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: So moving forward, a lot of this, if you're if if you're very educated on this subject, but you are like, well, that doesn't sound right.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's literally because there's so much um controversy in what's actually true.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: And what we're gonna stick with is what's called Odis Odysseo's version, Walter Odyssio.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: He um there were several people who they they thought was the one who executed them, but they call his version the official version, and it seems like he has the most facts.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: He's got his shit together, the McKinney.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so we're gonna go with Odysseo's version here.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but overall, they arrested over 50 fascist leaders and their families on this night on April 27th, 1945.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: They held they hold them all in some barracks.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is kind of sweet.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Claretta, his his mistress, sweetheart girlfriend, she's kind of missing and she's worried about Mussolini, so she asks to be reunited with him about 2:30 a.m.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're all just kind of figuring out what to do with these people right now.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's a lot of fighting going on in Dongo where they're being held, and they're really afraid that Mussolini's gonna have another like slippery escape here.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Paratroopers are gonna storm in.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: More more German paratroopers are gonna come.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: So he actually they actually end up moving Cloretta and Mussolini to a peasant's farm.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was called the De Maria's farmhouse.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And De Maria.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, De Maria.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, just some farmhouse that they found.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So they kind of hold them there overnight and into the next day.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So at this point, was there a trial?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's so funny, is what everything we read, there's no trial.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: This isn't read one thing about the trial.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Just like the Romanov execution where it's like the dead of the night, they move them a few places, and then, you know, call it call it the end of an era.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but we were watching this press coverage, like a newsreel from 1945, where it cover it's like the American version of what happened, and they basically show this snippet that looks like there's a trial.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like just like his American comrades or sorry, his like fascist comrades alongside him.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: He had a quick trial and then was executed.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was obsessed with this newsreel.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm we're gonna I want to figure out a way to post it because it's like your stereotypical World War II American newsreel with the like super trippy guy and another news, Mussolini has been executed.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: And there's like cheering in the background and like horns and trumpets.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just so outrageous.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_03: And they feel like the actual words say like his comrades.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like showing high like highlights, like footage from a different uh trial that had gone down for like a making it look like he that was his trial.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but they quickly cut to like, oh, he was executed.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: So it was like it's a very like, did you actually say that he had a trial?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: So they definitely showed a trial.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, and they said um a firing squad.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: But let's get into what we assume actually happened.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: So the morning of April 28th, 1945, Walter Odyssio, again, we're kind of going off of his version, right?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: He left for Dongo early in the morning along with Aldo Lambretti, where they met up with Bellini Dostelle.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just now I'm using my hand.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like really big too.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm doing the whole like Mussolini gestures over.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: The more you move your hand, the more it comes out pronunciations.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they drive to the farmhouse they're being held at.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: They pick up both Mussolini and his girlfriend Cloretta.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: They drive them to this fancy Italian villa that's not too far away.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, they say, get out, get out, stand by the wall.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: So they're at the wall outside of this house.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: 4 10 p.m., shot by a machine gun.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: And Trigger Man is unknown.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: We they think it's it was Walter Odysseo who did it.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: But here again, things get muddled.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Odyssio said it was him.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: He borrowed a gun from a guy named Moretti because his got jammed up.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_02: Other people were like, no, Odissio, it was his gun.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: People said no, it wasn't him.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: There was a few different From people they thought may have been the actual shooter, the executioner.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's also different versions of what how Mussolini behaved.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: So for example, Aldo Lampretti, who we know was there, he made him sound kind of like courageous, and he he said his final words were aim for my heart.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: While um Odyssio said he didn't have any last words, kind of makes him look like a pussy.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: Just a little bit of fear.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Another person said he said, No, no, no, and then they shot him.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_02: Again, kind of makes him look like a pussy.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then some say that there was a death sentence that was read, some say there was not.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: They just said, get out, stand there, and then they shot him in the back, some said they shot them in the front.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, it's just I just want to know what happened.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so too many accounts, you know, at least like like in the Roman offs, there was different accounts too, but it was generally like understood who killed him, what the order was that everyone was killed.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: This was very, like, just messy.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know for sure.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: But what we do know is that the bodies were treated in a really weird way.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: God, okay, this is where you you know you come here for the gore.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you come here for the gore.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: We're getting to the gore now.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I know shootings may seem like a very easy, clean, and thing done.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, afterwards it was messy.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: You wanna go with this?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, yeah.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: So, um, so the executed fascists, along with the girlfriend, were just essentially loaded into a van.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: There was about 16 bodies, too.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: So they ended up killing some of the other uh people that they arrested.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so in the middle of the night, they go to Milan and they go to this like um Piazza Loretta, which is just like a big central square.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's like downtown.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all go for the fun downtown.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_03: So this is like 3 a.m.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: and they just dump the corpses on the ground.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, like people lose their minds.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_03: And this is, I mean, it's so symbolic too, because again, it's like this is a public square for anti-fascist forces.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so this is just again, just like garbage in the middle of the night.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like, here you go.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so the townspeople start beating them, throwing stuff at them, throwing just being horrible to these deceased bodies.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, spitting on them.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_02: They eventually, after their bodies are they're already dead, their corpses are being beaten up.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: They then hang them upside down because we're like, we can't see, we can't see.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Hang them up, hang them up.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: They hang them like meat.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: On display.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: On display, in a like it's like a gas station, basically.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not sure if this was before or after they were hung up, but one woman literally emptied her entire pistol, like point blank, like at Mussolini.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_03: In his face, like a point blank up to his face and shot him in the face.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And she said each shot for one of my assassinated sons.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: So, like a shot per son that we've got.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Five sons.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: She shot him five times point blank.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, mind you, he's already dead.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: But still, just the group, like the grotesque of like demolishing these bodies.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are some pretty disturbing photos online that you are more than welcome to go and look at.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: I can't post those on Instagram.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if I want to post them, but the bodies are hanging upside down on like cattle hooks, basically, yeah, by their ankles, and people are just going hand-hand.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: And again, this isn't like medieval times.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: This is this is 1945.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: This is our grandparents.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: My grandparents were like this era.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this isn't.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: In Italy, we all love going to Italy.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone's on the Wolfy Coast in the summer, and this is uh not that long.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: There were a few American uh witnesses, not that I'm saying the Americans have the best story, and they were I'm not saying they were the most sympathetic, but they were absolutely shocked by how savage people became.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they actually um basically got their bodies at one point, but um the bodies were thrown in at first, they were thrown into an unmarked grave um in 1946, about a year later, they were the bodies were dug up by some of their fascist supporters.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is kind of funny.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: They did it in Easter Sunday.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: They stole the bodies.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: Bring up the bodies old fascists that came up.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they took up his body, they washed it in like a nearby fountain to make sure it looked presentable.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, as presentable as he can be, he got shot in the face at least five times.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they took it away, and then it was unknown for a long time, like where it was.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I think for a few months they had no idea.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Four months, yeah, authorities finally found the bodies that were stolen.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Italian authorities hid the bodies for 11 years, and it wasn't until 1957 they released the bodies to the family so that they could be buried in the Mussolini crypt to his widow and actually be properly buried.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: We did read too that they um at one point separated his brain from his body so that they could study it.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_02: The Americans did, yeah.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: So when they first recovered his body.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, they thought he had syphilis, which is why he went so nuts.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Uh of course.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's always the sex diseases, it's always the sex done.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's always the S T pol kitchen.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, these guys get these weird uh dictator complexes.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much conspiracy theories about who was all involved with this.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: Some say it may have been the British Special Forces, some say, you know, like Winston Churchill was behind it.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot, there's a lot of stuff online.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: You can go into the deep dark web of conspiracy theories on Mussolini.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: But these are the facts, quote unquote facts that we know pulled from the Virgins.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_03: Funny to me too is like once they finally got the last of his body and everything, they um did a Catholic burial back in his hometown in Italy.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: And what's funny about that is like, yes, his mom was a Sunday school teacher, but uh in typical Mussolini fashion, he was so ironic and very contradictory.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: But he was kind of a self-proclaimed atheist.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like he thought people that believed in Christ and you know, people that follow the Catholic religion were fools.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, he gets a Catholic.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and he like always kind of paralleled himself to Jesus Christ.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like he's like, Oh, that guy was just crazy, and like you know, he wasn't a real prophet.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a real prophet though.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, but he yeah, he had some crazy things going on in his in his brain.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: But um again, this just kind of shows that he again he was pro-Catholic in the limelight, so he could get the Catholic support, but he was anti-Catholic and pretty much an atheist, like behind closed doors.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and same thing with like his socialist to fascism uh kind of change and his anti-Semitism uh when it came to his relationship with Hitler, but then he actually cared for the Jews that were in Italy, so it's just it's all over the place.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting because he's just about power.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's like whatever he can say at the time to get power, he'll be whoever you want him to be.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: And to this day, you know, there are still neo-fascist supporters in Italy, and they on his the death of the anniversary of his death, they'll go to his grave and they'll celebrate his life and his.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want people to come after us, so let's not talk more.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: I'm scared.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Please bring it on.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's hard government.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't show my face.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: They know too much.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um that was a fun one to learn about.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna be honest.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_02: When I know you recommended you wanted to do Mussolini.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, it was you, by the way.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: No, it wasn't.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: It was.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Was it real?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I never brought up Mussolini.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, it was me.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_03: But at first keeps blaming me for anything that's non-tudor.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I didn't want to do it! Elizabeth wanted Egyptian, Elizabeth wanted Socrates.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_02: We just have very different interests.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: I have like a really big list of like actually I use those playing cards from Executed Today.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I sometimes will like randomly pull one and be like, okay, this looks interesting.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even know Mussolini was an execution story until you brought it up.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know Socrates was an execution story until you brought it up.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: So look at us learning.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: We learn off each other.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: We hope you guys have learned something too.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, um, obviously with our format, we only have so like long in our show to talk about everything.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: So much more.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we just hope that again, you guys take something from it that if you want to continue learning on your own, you do.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: But again, contribute back to us if you do have things to say.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: Google image search.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're gonna find some gross stuff on there.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: My point is that tell us if you are deeply passionate about something and you have corrections or things, because we want to continue to learn and we'll highlight it if you do tell us, like, well, actually, I'm a Mussolini expert, and this is what happens.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: I wanna know.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: We would love to know because we're educate us.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: We're all about learning here.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we came up with a new segment.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: We did, yeah.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: So obviously, like our segments are not set in stone, nor are they meant to be just like recycling.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like whatever makes sense for the episode.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but we were talking about this one, and we were like, this would be a funny time to talk about what you would do if you had to escape like a situation like some of this.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like an arrest like this.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like an arrest, or yeah, if you're in prison or whatever.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so this is called uh the new segment, new segment alert.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this is called Exit Strategy, and we're specifically talking about when Mussolini was held at like the ski lodge before the paratroopers like stormed in and abducted him.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um so we were talking about like funny ways that we would try and get out of the situation.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: Me, because I am a huge fan of Vaughn films, love Vaughn films, particularly like the old ones, uh, you know.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I feel like again, on Her Majesty's Secret Service is like one that always sticks out in my brain.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I would do like a Harry Potter style exit where, like, say I'm held at this cabin on the slopes, I would be like, okay, there's 20 Mussolini look-alikes.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_03: And they all go different directions on skis down the mountain, in like, you know, and you have to follow.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, they're skiing down the mountain.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like they all and they all look like big beards, they all have like distinct jaws.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: I like that idea that it's a Harry Potter thing, because then for those who are not Harry Potter followers who are not potter heads, um, in the very last book, they are trying to get like Harry to escape so that he has like seven look-alikes and they all kind of divert into different directions.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and then all the death eaters followed.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Death Eaters not sure which one's the real Harry.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what I was thinking.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, your idea is better than mine.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_03: Out of 19 Mussolini, I would get out.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm embarrassed.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so we never like really discussed this before we talked.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_03: So okay, this is I think I need to start talking to Megan before she tells me because my ideas suck.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, they don't they don't suck.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just I'm always surprised to hear your take.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: So go ahead.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: I would play dead.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Really?
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: The Hufflepuff way.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would go limp and I would just stare at them and then just like pretend like I pass out and just like fall over and then just refuse to move.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's not an exit strategy.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: It is, because they're eventually gonna give up, and then I'm gonna just run away really fast.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: They're just gonna leave you and be like, well, I guess she's dead already.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: They might shoot me in the head.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_02: They might just be like, and whatever we go.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't know if that's the best.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying it's a good strategy.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying it's what I would do.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_03: Strategy isn't a Hufflepuff strong suit.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Just gotta say that.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just remembered something.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_02: Unfazed.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: Also not caring about insults that are thrown your way as a Hufflepuff.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: As a Hufflepuff, I am kind and uh patient by nature, so those comments don't faze me.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, hey, if you're with a bear in the wilderness, playing dead's a great idea.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: Play dead, always play dead.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_03: But not maybe in this strategy.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to figure out how to get that newsreel onto like how to post it because wait, we forgot to mention at the very end of the newsreel, they actually show like the site of where he was executed.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's like blood all over the walls.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Gruesome.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: Gruesome.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, of course it's black and white, but still, and you know, the chipper narrator, he's like he goes, it was a fitting and glorious end.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then the trumpets go, and it's like, sorry, I was just thinking of that again.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: I really was fascinated by that American newsreel.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just wild that it like wasn't that long ago where it's still within Well, like you said, our grandparents are.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is maybe 15 years before my mom was born.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is kind of crazy.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's crazy to think what they're like, we're gonna look back on when we're old ladies, we're gonna look at like the 1990s and be like, oh my god.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I think of?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think of like styles right now that are gonna soon enough be outdated.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like Yeah, I hate style now.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like just say that really quick.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 56:48
  unknown: Yeah, dude.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: What is it?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: But even but even like home styles like Subway style and like things in the house that are eventually gonna be outdated.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: I yeah, evolution.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think As you're looking around my 1970s townhouse with this face of like, yeah, things do kind of like I think they're cute.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_03: I literally have a window of like the like no, it's 80s.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the 1980s, like uh clear square blocks.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like glass block, I think you call it.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: There's a window where it's the privacy glass, but it's in big, thick, it's what you would wear in your bathroom if you were super trendy in 1985.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, that's all in my dining room.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful, it's cute.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure just wait till that comes back.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I'm waiting for.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna come full circle and people be like, wow, you're on it.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_03: And like, yeah, didn't touch it.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, I think it's gonna come back, but I can't wait for fashion to evolve a little bit because whatever's happening now with fashion, the like like overalls.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: I have overalls.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, not you.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_03: You hated my overalls when I got them.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thinking of one specific person at work, but like everything looks like mom 80s fashion, and that's cool again.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of my look.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's not your look at all.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: You're very tasteful.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just saying, I just want that to pass.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's turning into another ending of a rant of social.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I don't rant, I tell the truth.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: I do want to be a dictator and just say what you can and can't wear.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's what I want.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_03: And now Elizabeth is a dictator.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: You heard it here first here first between me and Robbie.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Elizabeth, but before before we we we keep going down the rabbit hole, any last words?
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're carefully on this.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and we're done.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_02: But not today.