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13. Out of the Broom Closet with Maria Molteni · Spooky Butt

• speaker-0: hello, and welcome to a very special edition of Spooky Butt. We are giving Birthday Butt up here in Spooky Butt Studio. I'm Claire, your very fearful host, and today joining me is Maria Multaney. Maria Moltaney is a queer interdisciplinary artist, designer, educator, and mystic working on Massachusetts Wampanoag land for the last 25 years. They descend from Tennessee square dancers, stunt motorcyclists. Quilters, farmers, opera singers, and machinists of varied European backgrounds. Molteni is the first working artist in their family. Their practice has grown from formal studies in painting and printmaking, art education and publication, dance and athletics, to incorporate research, ritual, and play-based collaboration with the living and dead. Molteni is known for monumental hand painted groundworks, particularly cosmic courts. which helped lay the foundations for the National Basketball Court painting movement. Multaney refers to them as altars to the sky and horizontal slash anti-monuments. In the studio, they experiment with many materials, from inflatables to video to welding. They choose media that intersects conceptual rigor, formal poignancy, and spiritual depth. Their intuitive practice spans somatic spellcraft, embodied prayer, astrology, tarot, dream work, and color magic. Maria is also a fellow Libra on the cusp of Scorpio. Maria Multaney, welcome to Spookybutt. speaker-1: Thank you so much. I'm glad you called out the the birthday butt context because you your birthday was yesterday. And speaker-0: Yes. speaker-1: by the time we I think publish this, I we will have just had my birthday. So I love it. I love the Libra, the Libra balance we got going or imbalance. speaker-0: And but yeah, we'll see we'll see how it how it shakes out with this episode. speaker-1: So desire the desire for balance. speaker-0: So to kick things off, I do want to mention for a bit of context how we met. So we met earlier this year in an online class via Morbid Anatomy, and the class was a cultural history of Joan of Arc. and that was taught by friend of the podcast, Jason Lehman. He's not really a friend of the podcast at this point, he's basically the patron saint of this podcast. is literally everywhere. Well speaker-1: His president. speaker-0: he's he's the best. and so What kind of struck me about you at first was that you were so fucking funny in the chat. Like the f like you were providing commentary. And this is before I knew like anything about your artwork or anything like that. But it like Jason would say some like kind of quirky fact and you were just like, you know, adding like peppering in comments and whatnot, and I was on mute, just like dying. I'm like, I'm so glad my camera's off. I'm so glad my mic is off. This is the funniest fucking thing I've seen in a morbid anatomy class. So I just I just want to thank you for that. Call that out at the top of the show. speaker-1: No. That's so funny because I'm always like, my god, I need to chill the fuck out in the chat. But like, you know, it's just, I don't know. I feel like I just put my reactions in. It's good to know that someone actually appreciates it. I don't remember what I said at all, but speaker-0: I can't remember everything exactly, but it was just like hilarious commentary and it was like it was stuff that you know everybody was thinking internally but people weren't putting in the zoom chat, but that speaker-1: Probably some kind of misandrist like speaker-0: Yeah. Or just like general yeah, goofiness. Cause yeah, Joan of Arc was not treated too too great as we well know. but then from there I checked out your work and I was like, holy shit. because like as we were kind of ex discussing earlier, we're both from like the middle of the country originally. So I'm from St. Louis, you're from Nashville. And so in like something that I that kept coming up when I was looking, you know, through your work is that I was like I didn't know you could do this. I didn't know that this was, you know, allowed because I'm from, you know, a place where everything is kind of the same. There's not that much variety really of anything. so you know, painting basketball courts, recontextualizing the shakers, like all of this cool stuff that we'll get into. I was just like, my God, how like you can do this? This is so incredible. So I'm so excited you're here today. that means speaker-1: So much to me. I think that's actually been a huge goal of my life. I mean, I wouldn't say Nashville is like totally homogenous just because it has that, it has that like music city. Some people call it the the LA or like Nash Vegas of the South. And there's definitely like a lot of glitzy, you know, aesthetic. But it is there is a lot of in the South pressure to conform, you know. So I think it's been a huge goal of my whole career to be like. Have a dream, you know, and think, can you do this? And then try to make it happen. So thank you for seeing that. speaker-0: That's so cool. That's I mean, that's awesome because it's like, yeah, like I I get what you're saying about Nashville because it's, you know, yeah, it's a party city, but everybody kind of parties like in the same way and there's a lot of like kind of conformity and you know, all the bachelorette parties and like, you know, mainstream country and that sort of thing. speaker-1: Yeah. Lots of like blonde blonde ladies and big bows and things. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Lots of heteronormative kind of aesthetics, yeah. speaker-0: Right. Yeah. Nashville, man, I have not been to Nashville in years, but I don't know. Maybe I'll maybe I'll make it down there sooner or later. So growing up in Tennessee, so you grew up about like thirty or so minutes from a large Shaker community. So this is something that I actually learned pretty recently. I thought the Shakers were only in New England. I didn't know that their influence and their presence spread so far south. Growing up, was that just like a really big part of the regional identity was having the shakers around? speaker-1: So actually, this is what's so interesting about it is that even though so it took me, so no, the answer is no, not at all. I mean, now when I reflect back, I'm like, huh, my grandparents had this kind of chair, had this or that thing. I mean, they weren't like they were poor rural farmers, they weren't like collectors of things, but there were objects in their house I kind of recognize as almost like a little similar to Shaker stuff now. But it took me moving to the Northeast to even discover the Shakers at all. And it's honestly one of the reasons I've stayed in the Boston area, the Massachusetts area, so long as I've gotten so obsessed with things like the Shakers and the Spiritualists and various you know, of the that kind of visionary history in the region. And then I but in studying the Shakers, of course, I did learn that they, that they went as far south as Kentucky. And years ago I actually went to visit a pleasant Pleasant Hill Shaker Village, which is closer to like Louisville. it's not in Louisville though, but anyway, I'm like blanking right now. But it wasn't until really, I don't know, maybe four years ago or so that I realized that South Union was so close to where my grandparents and great-grandparents you know farmed and lived in the in a small unincorporated town called Oak Grove, actually. It's where they're buried and everything. And it was wild because I'd been studying the Shakers for at least 15, almost, you know, over 15 years at that point. I thought, my God, my grand my, you know, ancestors who were competitive square dancers and quilters and had a lot of kind of cultural overlap with the shakers lived so close, they they totally could have gone to one of their open services on Sunday, which is how I basically discovered them in 2007, because they still do have. Open services. I mean, there's only three Shakers currently living today. Yeah, speaker-0: Wow. speaker-1: but South Union, you know, I'm actually blanking on when it would have closed, but South Union, I think, would have been operating with at least a modest size community in the time of my great grandparents. So anyway, that was kind of a, you know, head explosion emoji moment that they were so close. speaker-0: That's so crazy when you like that I've kind of had s some s like similar stuff happen where it's like you get, you know, kind of hyper focused on something and then there's someone in your direct bloodline who like liter like that was part of their lived experience. It's so crazy. speaker-1: Yeah, totally. And it's funny because I have had people say in kind of more spiritual communities where we're doing ancestor work and such, I've had people ask, So d you know, are you from a shaker lineage in your family? And I'm like, well, no, because they were celibate. So I couldn't really be from a shaker lineage unless somebody Yeah, unless someone joined and then apostasized or left is how they say apostasized. But so it's like, so in some ways this feels like the closest to kind of being in a shaker lineage is just being in that vicinity. Cause every cause I mean, it's definitely true today. And I think throughout history it's been true to some extent that they're there are these kind of like friends of the Shakers, if you will, that live nearby and kind of go to their services and don't join but are, you know, very enthusiastic andor involved to some extent. Like they bring, you know, they help or they bring things to the Shakers or they trade with them or so anyway. Yeah. speaker-0: my God, that's incredible. Cause like just my only like frame of reference for Shakers was like the Shaker kind of design. So like the Shaker peg rail and whatever. And I was just kind of like left it at that. So like what exactly do you think drew you to like want to make art through the lens of the shakers? And when did that start happening? speaker-1: That's such a great question. And it's funny because I just yesterday morning I gave a a lecture kind of about this, both both like the history of the Shakers, and you know, particularly th in the their mm more like sort of radical story, I suppose, and like the overlaps of my work. And so, I actually for about the first ten years, I was kind of shy about my interest in shakers, you could say. I think I was just wanted to respect like They're sort of like privacy and agency, and I wasn't exactly sure what my intentions were. I was, you know, it's it's easy to get obsessed quickly. Like a lot of people will say, like, you know, so when did you get bit by the shaker bug? Like if you know, people in people in community, we kind of tend to call ourselves shaker freaks, but they're like, so when did you become obsessed? You know? It's easy to become obsessed immediately. But I just like went to their services, yeah, for about 10 years. And I would read Shaker books and collect Shaker books. And the first book I read was Sister Francis, the late Sister Frances's memoir. She unfortunately passed away in 2016. and now I have this very robust like library, but I was incorporating some of their like songs and things I was learning about them into like some kind of community programming and such when I was in my like 20s. maybe early 30s, but it wasn't really until around twenty seventeen I kind of got simultaneo simultaneously invited by a couple of different Shaker, you could say museums. You know, the only the only current active Shaker village is Sabbath Day Lake in Maine. That's where brother Arnold and Sister June and their new a new brand new Shaker April now live. All of the other, yeah They have a new one as of a few months ago. the all the other Shaker villages are like historic shaker sites that are now either like a museum or a school or a bed and breakfast. So they find some some organizational structure to to keep going. And a lot of the that land was kind of repurchased, like kind of bought back for this reason. Anyway, this is all more like boring information about them. But but yeah, so I was invited by Fruitlands Museum and Hancock Shaker Village almost simultaneously in 2017 to do projects there. And it was a little bit of an internal crisis I had, like, my gosh, am I gonna step out of the broom closet, as I tend to call it? I love that. And be kind of open about it. and yeah, and so and by this point, I'd also been studying the spiritualists and was a member of a spiritualist church called Lake Pleasant in Massachusetts. And you know, was really kind of kind of stepping out of a lot of broom closets, you could say. I think, you know, mysticism and the miraculous and faith and saints, you know, we talked about our Catholic upbringing a little bit before the show, has always been really present for me and and, you know, Marian apparitions and things when I was young. But I I feel like in my maybe like early 30s or so, or maybe late 20s. I really kind of started to embrace the the kind of witch, you know, I don't know, ty like position or title or identity identity. and so yeah, I don't know, I could just I could go on and on, but I decided to just let myself start making work more openly about the shakers. Knowing that I have so much deep respect for them, but knowing that a lot of the work that I'm into is kind of more socially taboo and it's not about design and architecture, which is a little bit more, which is amazing, but is a little more safe. and tends to kind of be the area that like all the dudes are into. So at speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: least or at least has like represented, you know, like usually these woodworkers and you know, are kind of like Coming in and making their Shaker-inspired objects. So yeah, so I really kind of went ahead first. And now I do, I give lectures and make a lot of artwork about the overlap of spiritualism and the shakers. And particularly an era of Shaker history, a period of Shaker history from like 1837 to 57 that is kind of academically called the era of manifestations, but the Shaker's called mother's work. and it was this like very heightened period of of visitations from from particularly the the spirit of Anne Lee, their their matriarch, and sort of founder, who had long since been deceased, and then angels and spirits. And it was a period where Shakers were like falling into trance and having long experiences, you know, in the city of Paradise in the afterlife and started to make the gift drawings and it was just like a very unprecedented moment for them. So I make a lot of artwork in response to that. And I guess I can, you know, honestly say that I I try to think of what I do humbly and caringly and carefully, sort of continuing like mother's work to an extent, like trying to really tap in to also Anne Lee's kind of spirit and energy, and like carry on some of that some of that work. So speaker-0: wow. That's I didn't know an like anything about that because like as you kinda mentioned, the shakers were it sounds like notoriously private. speaker-1: Yeah. Well it's it's interesting because yes, like when so without it's again, I was like talking about this all morning yesterday, so it's easy to just fall back into lecture mode, but when they came to the United States, well they were they were really persecuted in Manchester, England. And then when they came to, you know, the so called it wasn't even it wasn't even called the United States just yet 'cause they got here seventy seven seventeen seventy four. they had a really hard time in both places, partially because they were just had all these radical views and lifestyles, particularly that that God was was, you know, sort of he and like male and female, and that they had a woman leader and that they were celibate and had non-traditional community sort of style and value and shared property and all these things. So they were viewed as a threat. Ann Lee was kind of seen as a witch. Originally she was publicly proselytizing and trying to find new converts, but they basically were brutally beaten everywhere they went. And Anne Lee died within about 10 years of yeah, of being here. although she got an incredible amount of work done. and so that's I would say the reason that the Shakers are are more like kind of cloistered and they live separately from the world and these communes. And so it's They're kind of both private and also, you know, but also have had such an incredible influence on this entire country and really the world. given that they're so separate, separatist more or less. and these open Sunday services were like the way that they were able to sort of continue to sort of get converts instead of going out and trying to convert people. People were welcome to come attend their. attend their service, you know, one day a week. And then if they felt so inspired or interested, they could try to join. So yeah, they're totally like kind of simultaneously private and also like a pretty huge American spectacle and influence. speaker-0: I feel like with that it kind of cause you mentioned like manifestations and I'm kind of thinking in along the lines of law of attraction, that kind of like fits in nicely because one of the tenets of law of attraction is, you know, I don't chase, I attract. So that speaker-1: Totally. speaker-0: that also kind of makes sense with the Shakers. It's like, okay, you're welcome to come here, but it has to be like on your own volition. We're not gonna like run out and try to arm twist or anything like that. So that is so cool. speaker-1: Yeah. And it's one of the things that I think originally like I I mean when I when I talk about what originally drew me to the Shakers, you know, it's definitely the the sort of radical gender dynamic and with you know having a having a woman leader, their ex their quote, ecstatic or freeform dancing, which has been a source of interest, you know, since I was a dancer. and I I really liked actually the idea that you couldn't you wouldn't that you weren't born into it. I mean, the celibacy is a whole issue that we could get into. I mean, you know, the short of it is you know, 18th century marriage you know, was not often consensual and sex within it was not often consensual. So it's really not that crazy that they, you know, that a a woman leader would be like, let's actually do. all this other cool stuff instead of having sex with these men that were being forced to marry. Wow. You know, it's it's like people think of the celibacy as being so restrictive and sure, sure. But I think it also opened up so much, particularly for women. but anyway, I liked I as someone who grew up very Catholic, I liked that you had to choose to join. No one was making you. and I th yeah, I think that was interesting. And I love I love the framework of the law of attraction you mentioned. That's really yeah. speaker-0: that's so cool. So there's one particular one of your sh shaker pieces of art, and it was the All Around the Room exhibit, which was in Hancock Shaker Village last year in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. so it was an immersive installation that endeavored to bring the vision of a 19th century Shaker sister to life, whose name was Anne Maria Goff. so I loved seeing pictures of this. I loved how you utilized the Shaker peg rails in the space. And it just kind of felt like being in a storybook. 'cause when I typically think of like Protestant religions, I think of like dark colors, total uniformity, make everybody exactly the same. But you just kind of brought in this total like whimsy and playfulness, and you just it feels like you made the space alive. so Why do you think it's important that you made that space kind of feel that alive and made it, you know, an interactive experience for guests? speaker-1: Yeah, that's a great question and observation. well, first of all, I think that when I walk into a shaker village, and not everyone, but I think others who kind of have that, you know, get bit by the shaker bug, if you will. I've it's almost like I see it that way, or like I see it in my heart that way, or I feel it that way. Like it feels so vibrant to me. And so in some ways, I feel like I was just showing it how I see it. But of course, I was using you know, specific, really specific kind of researched imagery and shapes from the gift drawings from the period I was speaking about, mother's work or the era of manifestations. Like so I was definitely using like their kind of imagery and language and symbolism in, you know, in my work. But also, so I mean, you know, there are a lot of ways in which the Shakers do seem kind of like Puritan adjacent because there are there are restrictions and they they did have various you know kind of rules against decorate you know, decorative unnecessary, you know, decoration. They also didn't really have artwork. There was a written into their millennial laws was like there will be no paintings or drawings set behind glass hanging on the wall, you know. Wow. Yeah, really specific. and they didn't really have like a a huge visual, well, I mean, visual culture in that like drawing kind of way, except for their maps. so it was everything was like utilitarian, but it was also in the service of simplicity. However, I think there's often a misunderstanding. Well, first of all, a lot of people kind of conflate them with the Amish, and they're actually quite different because the the Shakers were kind of like inventors and industrial designers and really embraced. And changed technology themselves that affected the whole world. But also I they used all kinds of colors, particularly in their buildings. They, you know, would use these beautiful yellows and reds and blues, and they all kind of had different meanings. And one of the reasons that there was even paint and pigment around to start making the gift drawings was because they had the paint from, you know. furniture and buildings they were painting. And so I I think I'm always trying to kind of complicate the the like oversimplified perception of the shakers. you know, especially because I mean it's not only their era of manifestations where they became ex you know where it just kind of exploded in these vibrant images, but You know, I've always talked about them being very embodied and expressive. I mean, sure, it's like on the one end they're not having sex. On the other end, they're they're dancing you know, fervently for hours and hours and hours. in groups, men and women in the same room. They they would sit opposite one another and enter opposite doors in every building. But it was like the separation, the sort of symmetry of that design. that's so yeah, that social design and that arc architectural design was really, in my opinion, and I think also in theirs, supposed to underline the equality of it. So they always believed like men and women were separate but equal. So they were they would enter through separate doors, but they were facing each other, gazing at each other and then dancing together in these symmetrical patterns for hours and hours and hours. And just think about what that does for you. You know? but yeah, so I mean, I kind of left the context of the installation, but basically I was trying to kind of imagine what a shaker visionist, which is kind of like their word for medium during that period I was talking about. Yeah, a shaker who was like in who had fallen into trance or received some kind of message. Like they call them gifts because it's like gifts from heaven. whether it's more visual or whether it's more of a message, but the the receptor or the receiver would be called a visionist or a medium. And like sometimes the language really overlaps with spiritualism in that way. and then the person recording the vision, which sometimes was the person who was receiving it, but sometimes it was a different shaker that would be like transcribing it once the person kind of came to, would have been called an instrument. So instead of an artist. who would be drawing the the the image of the experience. They were called an instrument, like an instrument of the divine or an instrument instrument of God or yeah. speaker-0: Wow. that's so cool. And it kind of makes sense too that like a female led religion would have like be so open to what are essentially mediums. that's so cool. speaker-1: Yeah, and and and one thing I will say about that that I I find super interesting, I wrote an essay and we about called Holding a Mirror to Heaven that's in Boston Art Review, and we had to kind of cut this part. But you know, the era of manifestations and you know, the spiritualist sort of American spiritualist phenomenon and also the Salem Witch trials, even though they were like, you know, a different different time, all happened when Neptune was in Pisces. What? Yeah. And the b but the big difference is that in this in this case of the Salem Witch trials, the women were not believed. In the case of the spiritualists, they sort of were until they were started to be like probed, you know, having their bodies probed by all these scientists and men. And then they were kind of you know, disbelieved. And today people call like a lot of spiritualist mediums phonies and all of this. It's very misogynistic. The Shaker women. were basically supported by the community and believed and encouraged to and it wasn't only women that were having these visions, but it was a lot of women. And similar to the witch trials, it wasn't only women. But but anyways, I mean eventually the eventually the era of manifestations kind of got shut down because the Shakers were sort of worried that they were going to be like witch hunted again. okay. But but still it didn't lead towards any It didn't lead to any violence or smearing, you know what I mean, of of their community members. So I think that is a really important lesson. speaker-0: wow. That's yeah, that's incredible. And I had no idea because I again I just thought the shakers were just like, okay, tucked away and just reading Bible verses. So that's so cool that it was, you know, that into mysticism and mediumship. Man, how awesome. So I do want to move on to another piece of work of yours, and that is your basketball courts, aka cosmic courts, altars to the sky. So in 2010, you founded the international queer feminist collective Newcraft Artists in Action. The NCAA works creatively in public space to champion participation over spectatorship. And the liberation of recreation over status quo, commercial sports, culture. Under your creative direction, you pioneered the national community-centered basketball court painting movement. So, what I kind of noticed in looking through, you know, NCAA and then looking at the cosmic courts on your website is that it kind of feels like an invitation to just come as you are and exist and play in that exact moment. So be 100% authentic. Like maybe you have like A knee brace on, or you're not feeling so great, or you're not wearing like the best outfit, but it's, you know, show up and be present in that time and space. and I do get that the static court painting is an altar to the sky, but I'm also assuming that the players are also aspects of the altar as well. Kind of like, you know, a holy book or like incense and whatnot. It kind of took, it took me a little while and I was like, wait, holy shit, this is an interactive altar. That's so cool. So Like how like where did this come from? This is just again me being like, You can do that, you can paint pesticle courts, like, my god. Like and it can be an offering up to the sky, up to the divine. So like how like how did this come about? This is fascinating. speaker-1: Gosh, thank you. I really appreciate how you read my work. Like I feel like you really pull out things where I'm like, yes, yeah, that you got you get it, you get it. You know, but also you pull out things I haven't quite thought about or articulated. So I'm just really grateful for your, you know, your attention on it. yeah. So I mean, there's a few things I could say there. I mean, one is like I love to talk about the element of air in the game of basketball. You know, the element of air is so important. Air Jordan, like get air. It's so vertical. We think of like players as flying. And I grew up as this like super Libra, playing basketball. I played for 10 years. That's why I I make this work, you know, is like it's a huge part of my like personal and kind of personal history and family culture and all of this. but yeah, so I mean the the like It's not like I I've been thinking about air and basketball for a very long time and made various artwork about it. Also, I love the airball because it's like this idea of failure, you know, the like an airball. But you know, eventually I started realizing after painting a couple of courts, I was like, Yeah, these are altars to the sky. Like this is this is basketball is very much this like you know, happens like it's very much on the ground, but in relation to the sky and has this kind of as above, so below, I guess, sort of thing going on. and yeah, I I think I realized pretty early that I mean, altar altars are a huge part of my personal practice and very much now my art practice as well. I was thinking about simultaneously the courts as being these like horizontal monuments. Part of that I think ties into the activated altar, where the you know, it's like we think about the public monument as this like static stone singular man, usually an atrocious man, or j or just a single person who did some great things and did some bad things too. And then when we're when we learn about the bad things they did, we want to sort of like. You know, we're like, why are they standing on this pedestal? And you're like, well, why do we put a person one single person on a pedestal anyway? Like, what is this stone monument thing? And so I kind of like to think of the court as a platform where bodies, you know, enter and they're the characters that are, you know, making the history in real time. And you know, it's it's it's relational. And like you said, we invite everyone. I mean, a huge part of all of the NCAA projects are trying to welcome all kinds of bodies, you know, especially people who have felt like they had to be on the sidelines, queer people, disabled people, you know, trans people, but just like everyone in space together. And I think, yeah, like this kind of relational dynamic of working stuff out in this space. Also, I love that basketball courts have always been a mixed use space. Like the early gymnasiums were spaces where there were like dance you know dances dance hall and and playing and that's very much how like hip hop evolved kind of in tandem with basketball as well but also obviously in public outdoor space. So in NCAA we talk a lot about like the liberation of recreation because so much like beautiful inventive stuff comes through just play without necessarily pressure and always competition. and then let's see, yeah, the liberation of recreation and participation over spectatorship. So as far as the altar goes, I mean, I'm not the only one, the only artist who immediately sees the sort of spiritual connections between sport and art and sport and spirituality, you know, because it's like everyone kind of knows, I mean, it's almost like the In some ways, the spectator sport culture has almost replaced you know, American spirituality, or at least it it really rival it really rivals it. Yeah. but I but it's like I'm less interested in the giant stadium and much more interested in public space. And I mean, really all of this work came out of my personal basketball practice where like After I graduated from undergrad, I was like working by myself in my multi basement studio in Austin, Massachusetts, all the time and feeling kind of lonely and it was dark. And I thought, you know, I just want to like get outside more. And I went down the street to play, to play basketball, to shoot free throws by myself. I love shooting free throws. And, you know, I realized the heart the hoop didn't have a net. So I started making the nets. But at that time, I was also doing performance art. Like before I started doing any of the kind of public space stuff, I was doing performance art about praying the rosary and shooting free throws. Because that's like my entire childhood. speaker-0: my god, wow. speaker-1: Yeah, my dad would be like, go outside and shoot a hundred free throws and count how many you made. And then the nuns would be like, you know, go pray three rosaries, you know, go, you know, go pray you know, Fifty Hail Marys and you know. to forgive your sins or, you know, to absolve your sins. and so I was I was often praying the rosary while while running cross country. I was often playing the rosary while I was shooting free throws. And so I really think of this like I love the free throw as this meditative, you know, embodied. Practice of prayer. And, you know, we'll get into it in a little bit when we talk about my show. But a lot of my artwork, really since my twenties, has actually been about the rosary and this sort of embodied object-based, bead-based sort of prayer. rather than necessarily like a sitting still. I mean, I really have a lot of appreciation for meditation and kind of silent prayer. But I think that I have an easier time kind of being in meditative or even trance or a state of prayer when I'm in motion or I'm handle or I'm handling things. So yeah, so I just feel like the I feel like you know, people bring their spirit to these these spaces. And a lot of times play is a lot is about a lot more than just. play. I mean it is just play. And at the same time I also I sometimes say like games are magic. So speaker-0: wow. Yeah. I never thought about that because like I wasn't the most athletic and I I mean I was really good on like swim team and stuff like that, but it did feel like, you know, play wasn't really at like, I don't know, being on a grade school basketball team or whatever, it's like play wasn't at the center of it. It was just like these weird adult egos in the room who were projecting onto their kids. And it's just like let the kids fail, let them try new things. And it it's it got weird like that. I mean, again, not really much of an athlete, but it's just like that's something that I think back to a lot is like the coaches and the adults in the room who couldn't take a step back and be like, Hey, I'm actually watching an eight year old's basketball game. It's not that serious. So my God. speaker-1: Exactly. Exactly. And I was like, I was like a really I often talk about being an empath. And I was like simultaneously an empath. And also like I have an Aries moon. So I was also this kind of like compet I did have like this competitive active side that really enjoyed it. and I liked that I had an opportunity, you know, to kind of express like different kind of gender energies, you know, in in an athletic space. But it was so intense. I w it was so intense and there was so much trauma and or and andor drama, you know. And my dad, yeah, he took it so seriously. He would get like thrown out of my softball games for yelling, you know. And you were like, Yeah, this person is like ten years old. It's gonna be fine. speaker-0: But I it's one of those things like it's weird that I've kind of forgot about that experience because I think it was just so it was constant. It was prevalent. It's like you the two things were fused together. You couldn't like just have a fun day playing. It was, you know, all these like older people who killed the vibe, basically. Got speaker-1: Yes, yes. speaker-0: wild. So there are two of these cosmic courts that I want to highlight. the first one is courting the sky. And that is in New Bedford, Massachusetts. so this court is in the town where the book Moby Dick partially takes place. it has a lot of nautical imagery, including flags, a compass, whale tails. and so for you, it was, you know, important that you wove in the nautical and the whaling history of New Bedford, Massachusetts, into this piece to honor that. And then I did see on your website that. One of the layers in this piece is the experience of looking under your nose for answers, even when you think they're out there. And I wanted to call this out because this has resonated with me massively in my life. Like this is a nonstop theme for me. Just something being just so obvious and so in front of my face and me being like, I have to, I have to dig through every hole, I have to climb every mountain, and just like not being able to just stop, take a beat and like just see what's in front of me, you know. As far as my eye can see and that sort of thing. So I thought that was so cool. And so, like, why why do you think that came through for you in this piece? Like, why how like I don't even know how to ask this question. It's like, how did this, how were you able to kind of work that in? And like, how was that inspiration for you? speaker-1: Yeah, well, it's so another thing I sometimes talk about in my work is like I feel like a lot of my work, especially over time, really it feels like a divine assignment. Like, you know, on the one hand, I was just making these basketball courts and it was about my childhood and about, you know, like yeah, liberating children and a lot of political themes too, like justice and liberation of all kinds. But then over time, both with the basketball courts and a few other groundworks I've done. that are also, you know, kind of altars to the sky, and one of them I call an anti-monument. But it's like from the point of being invited to do the project through to the, you know, after completing it, just all of the crazy synchronicities lining up. It's like it really felt like a divine assignment. Like some, you know, it was, it was bigger than just the piece. And with that one, like, my gosh. I mean, there are so many crazy stories I could tell you. Like, I was on a I was on an ocean rowing team for eight years. And the boats that we would row, this was in the Boston Harbor, but we kind of had like a sister rowing club in New Bedford, and they would row whaling boats, and we would row a very similar kind of wide life-saving style gig. and our Our teams evolved out of volunteer teams of shipwreck lifesavers in the Boston Harbor that used to row out and save people from shipwreck and probably loot the boats. wow. Yeah. And it's like I joined this rowing team. And then I was having these dreams of these like orphan boys on the Boston Harbor island who were like appearing to me. And then we rowed to that island and realized that their cemetery was on the island because they died in a shipwreck. And like it just I know, I mean it's like I could tell it's funny, I forgot. I sometimes I forget. I I mean, even these dreams and these experiences are right under my nose, and I forget about them. But I so many experiences. I also learned through astrocartographic readings with like astrocartographers that like my Pluto line runs right through the Boston Harbor. And so every time we would row in these boats, we would just be hitting my Pluto line, and here I am like. On this shipwreck lifesaving team having visions of, you know, orphan boys who died in shipwreck and like all this stuff, you know. And then I'm invited to paint this court in New Bedford. And this man who owns a an o an an old nineteenth century octagon house that was built by a whaling ship captain, let's stay in his house. my god. Wow. So our so our crew. You know, like our painting crew is like staying in this wailing captain's house that's totally haunted and really beautiful. I know. I know. At the same time, I'm kind of studying octagon houses and the history of spiritualism and like, you know, just like all the it's all the stuff around, even just the piece itself, you know, that you don't know unless you get the story. And so all of that was unfolding. And yeah, I just started thinking, I mean, one thing. One thing that's interesting, all of my courts have been in Massachusetts. And I think a lot of people are like, why do you stay in Massachusetts? You're from Nashville. And like, why am I living right on my Pluto line? You know, all this kind of intense, dark, or and or like bleak andor you know, just colonial oppressive history. I mean, it's all over United States, of course, but it's it's like this was kind of the first place where all this stuff was in with was introduced. And I really think that I kind of stay in this bleak place and I'm trying to address these kind of violent histories and sort of transmute them and bring I don't really actually like to use the light and dark metaphors because but anyways, like I don't necessarily think dark is bad and bringing light is good, but But it's like a kind of a metaphor, you know, just sort of trying to break open or liberate these spaces. And so, you know, I'll go to a city like like I did a basketball court in Salem too, and and one in New Bedford. And so I know in advance, okay, this is a this is a whaling city, or this is this is where the Salem witch trials happen. Everyone's really into witches. That's kind of the mascot of the city. The there's whales are kind of the mascot of New Bedford. But I'm like, you know, what? I like to ask the children and people who use the courts, like, how do we feel about these? What do we think a witch is? How can we kind of rewrite this? And so for the New Bedford court, you know, I taught kids the nautical flag alphabet. And so we learned how to write secret messages and nautical flags because there's one for every letter in the alphabet. And I gave them, yeah, I gave them this prompt by putting a chalkboard on the fence. I was just like, What do you think the whales that Which are which are almost as big as a basketball court and deep in the ocean might want to communicate to creatures of the sky, whether it's like aliens or birds or planes, you know, because that's especially as drone photography and technology is like developed, you know, you can see things more from above than you used to be able to. And so, yeah, so we we learned how to write secret messages into the court. And so, And it's basically, yeah, they're kind of trying to communicate on behalf of the whales to the birds. and so just trying to think of how to playfully break that up and think from the whale's perspective or the perspective of creatures rather than, you know, just killing and extracting from nature. So speaker-0: that's so cool. Yeah, just like giving the whales a voice. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: man, I love that. And you did bring up your you brought up the court in Salem, which is what I wanted to talk about next. That one is called Storming the Court, aka Tormenta and La Cancha in Salem, Massachusetts. so I took this description from your website, the theme based on a basketball term. recreates the classic image of a Salem witch in the context of a roiling tempest or nor'easter, complete with lightning bolts and a new to full basketball moon phase, which mark the free throw line and rebound markers. A mystical third eye s cites three pointers as players are invited to purpose surrounding stars and eyeballs for their own new games. This basketball court, I wrote this down, is gnarly as hell. This thing is so fucking cool. Thank you. speaker-1: So much. speaker-0: It's so cool 'cause it's it's Still playful. It's like fine for kids, but you can tell, like, there's like the spooky witchiness with like the witch's hand and like her nails and all of that. it's just it's just so cool. And it's I think just such a cool way to kind of tie in the city's history. And so like we know that the people who were accused in the Salem witch trials weren't actually witches. however, this feels this court kind of feels to me like a reclamation of the witch label. Like it's, you know, taking that power back. So what was it like having to balance this so to be respectful of the victims of this political attack while still representing Salem's witchy identity? speaker-1: Yeah, that's just all of your observations are so great. And I love, I agree. Like taking the power back is huge. and I mean, you know, I show up in Salem to paint this basketball court, and of course, I'm like, I like witches. I'm in I'm into this, but I always want to ask the kids, like, what are y'all into? And you know, and so well, I I might just Say, like on the point of being respectful of the trauma of that, of that history, a friend of mine, Melissa Neerman, who I've done some collaborations with, we actually led a pilgrimage kind of about Shaker and spiritualists across Massachusetts and New York a few years ago. But Melissa leads kind of kind of like feminist liberatory witch tours in Salem because so much of them are like exploitative of that of that history. and so I feel like, yeah, I feel like I'm part of broader communities that in general are trying to kind of honor that history and tell more a more honest story and a more layered, complex story. But as far as like this particular context, I was working in what's like a a a neighborhood in Salem called the Point or El Punto, which is known to be a pretty Puerto Rican neighborhood. So that was my first sort of interest or concern was like. Well, first I was like, what do you want to make a you know, what do you want in the basketball court? And they were like, witches. And I was like, okay, cool. You don't you you didn't twisted my arm. I'm down. And I was like, but let's talk about what a witch is to y'all. You know, what are what is a witch? Is it a is it a you know, an old white lady on a brim brimstick like they have actually on their calves? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, in Salem. like, or you know, what is it to you? And so I asked them to draw witches and tell me what witches were. And you know, cause I really wanted them to feel well, just just like question those norms and feel like it was their space. And so, you know, we ended up, yeah, kind of coming up with this cool idea of almost more like a almost like a genderless force, you know, that's that's not even really like a figure of a human necessarily at all, except for the the hand with the nails. you know, talking about the a tempest because they're in Salem and it's sort of like a a nor'easter or like a ocean, an oceanside storm, which is why I would called it storming the court or Tormenta on the cancha. And yeah, I I had actually always wanted to do the basketball moon phase. So I incorporated that And actually Nike ended up yoinking my part of my design for a court that they didn't Dubai after that. But anyway, I did it first. But yeah, so it just I just like to kind of revisit these old archetypes and think how can we update this and yeah, liberate it, take back the power, but also represent the people who are here now. and have them feel at home in this space and empowered in this space. So speaker-0: That's so cool. man, that's that's awesome. So okay, quick question about the Nike Dubai thing. So did they they like ripped off your design or? speaker-1: Yeah, but they've kind of ripped me off. I I've gotten ripped off by a lot of corporations. It's been, it's been, I mean, there are other podcasts where I talk about this specifically, but I've I've had a lot of like, yeah, just frustration and honestly heartache and, you know, lack of support when it comes to a lot of like, yeah, corporations kind of Taking my work or taking interest in my work and but not sharing my values. So yeah, it's if anybody wants to catch up on that topic, you're welcome. You're welcome to listen to my friend Abigail, Abigail Smithson's podcast, Dear Adam Silver, because I actually dropped a big a big public sort of bomb, or not not but just like I I dropped some kind of info about that whole history and exposed some some something that happened to me. So we can leave it at that in this podcast. speaker-0: Okay. Yeah. I'm that's such a bummer that that happened, but it's great that you still like f like you're just so hardworking and so prolific. So you just keep forging ahead. So that's cool that you haven't let these guys get you down and ruin this for you. speaker-1: Thank you. speaker-0: Yeah, you're welcome. Mm, mm, mm, mm, boom. Next up, I do want to talk about your upcoming Arctic Circle residency. so you have been accepted into this residency, and it's where art intersects science, architecture, education, and activism. so you will depart in spring of 2027 on an expedition vessel full of creative researchers. So this is my first time ever like ever even learning that something like this exists. So What exactly does this residency entail? Like if you can kind of share what's gonna happen? speaker-1: Well, I do not know what is going to happen. I mean, it's, you know, but I will say I've been I've been actually following this residency for about 10 years and have really have almost applied for it many times, particularly actually when a very good friend of mine, my friend Siri, who is no no longer an artist, that's their their they're like, I'm no longer an artist. But but we used to do a lot of collaboration in our 20s and and such together. We were like performance artists. And Siri has been working on the South Pole for many years, like had had been going there annually to work on the base that actually houses the actual pole that's in the ground, the South Pole. speaker-0: I didn't know there was one. speaker-1: There's a pole. And it actually moved every year because of like the the pole, the cent the the south pole most like the point of it actually shifts. But anyways, they were working on the base that houses the giant telescope that measures the cosmic like microwave background, which is all that captures like all the light left over from the Big Bang. speaker-0: Cool. speaker-1: I know. So for years I was like, let's apply for the Arctic Circle residency. And like, I'll go up to the like, you know, quote, North Pole or the Arctic Circle while you're in the South Pole. And we'll do some kind of cool, like, bipolar collaboration. But they were always like, no, I'm not an artist anymore, Maria. So I kind of didn't apply for years. and I finally just did it. And I don't even know what why I decided to just do it. And I have a lot of like, know if it's like imposter syndrome or you know it's just like such a huge honor and such a huge like to to be accepted, but also to go to the Arctic, especially especially at this moment when it the Arctic is just being devastated by by climate change and global warming. And it's like, who am I to you know, I'm not a scientist that's been studying this all these years. Like I, you know, I it means a lot to me to try to do this. experience justice. And I think part of that though is remaining super open to what it tells me, like what the divine assignment, you know, becomes. I don't have like a super hard agenda. I do know that we're supposed to be on this boat for a couple of weeks in the Arctic with all of these, you know, amazing people. And I My understanding is that there will be sort of workshops and kind of classes and some organized activities. but we also can bring like a duffel bag. So it's not like I'm gonna be making paintings on, you know, on the boat or something. you know, I wouldn't do that anyway. I probably wouldn't just make make paintings of the Arctic. But I think I'm my plan is to go just with the most, you know, kind of focused. devotion and open and the most open heart that I possibly can to just really try to receive. I mean, sure, I'll probably bring a camera. I'll probably bring some recording equipment to capture some of what is there. But I think that actually what I can sort of offer is is almost like a psychically receptive, open, you know. mind and heart to listen and think and listen and try to understand what I can what I can offer. speaker-0: Mm. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean and you know, but also in the background, I've done a lot of research and some artwork about Sedna, the planet Sedna, as well as the Inuit goddess of the Arctic underworld. I have a dean that's all about it. If I start talking about it now, I probably won't stop for another 15 minutes. But But the planet Sedna is this re really, really interesting. I mean, pl you know, planet planetary body. She's but she's a sedenoid, a planetary body, a transnettonian object, depending on which label you want to give her. But she has this like very, very long twelve thousand year orbit. And she's just now coming back a lot closer to Earth than she's been in thousands of years. speaker-0: Wow. speaker-1: And she was named after the after Sedna, the That she was the first sort of planetary body to be named outside of a Greco-Roman pantheon. And there's a lot of really interesting kind of synchronicity synchronicities around her naming, even. And but she yeah, named after the In Inuit goddess of the Arctic underworld, Sedna, who just has this really beautiful story that even though it's not my culture and I have a lot of respect for that, so I'm careful about like telling the story myself, but there's a few versions of the myth that I feel really identified with in some ways. and like Sedna is sort of known to you know, preside over the the oceans and and be sort of at the bottom of the Arctic in this really dark space. But sh her wrath really comes out when when humans are not respecting the planet and respecting creatures of the sea and earth. And she'll sometimes like withhold fish or sea creatures from humans until they, you know, change their ways or kind of petition to her. sometimes a shaman will like go down to the bottom of the ocean and like comb her hair for her and sort of ask for her like intercession or forgiveness to kind of release the fish and the sea creatures again. So so I I'm I'm not sure that's definitely what's on my mind the most. But I again, it's not exactly my story to tell. So I'm not quite sure. I just want to go into this experience without too much of an agenda on the front end, but really just openness about what I should what I should find and what I should do with my experience. So speaker-0: wow. Yeah. I I only recently learned about Sedna, I think maybe like two years ago, through True Detective. It was I think True Detective season three. It was the season with Jody Foster and it took place up in so it was yeah, they they wove some of that lore into it and like just they used the setting like basically the setting was its own character. So that was that was actually really interesting. But yeah. speaker-1: My god, I love Jody Foster, by the way. Yeah, I speaker-0: She's a crate, yeah. speaker-1: mean Contact is like my favorite movie. speaker-0: okay. very cool. wow, okay. So with the residency, like will you be doing like art installations in the Arctic or is it just it's like a way for artists to experience the Arctic and then go back home and then create art from the experience? speaker-1: I think it's all kinds of things, but I like I said, because we just have a duffel bag, I'm not really sure. I mean, I I I'm excited about the challenge of thinking about if there is something I want to kind of quote make there. You know, how can I make without materials really? speaker-0: okay. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean, or at least not I don't know. I'm trying to I'm I'm really trying to think about it. I mean, But also, of course, without disrupting the that place, you know, too much as well. Like does does the Arctic want me to bring something I've made to stick there? Or, you know, I mean, I I sometimes do these playful, it's not like a super developed project, but I sometimes when it snows, like in the winter, I'll do these like snow spells where I'll kind of draw. you know, sigils and messages into the snow. So I might kind of go down that route a bit and think about how I could I mean I yeah, how I could interact with what is there in a way that is not harmful or like imposing my own footprint or hand, if you will. but is like, you know, maybe more symbiotic or ephemeral. so yeah, I'm I'm still brainstorming, but also like Again, I mean, even with the basketball courts, I try not to go in. I understand that people want a design in advance of like commissioning something that costs money. But I I really find that when artists are trusted to kind of trusted in their process, and when I trust myself to really follow my intuitive threads and not come with too much of an agenda up front, usually the the most perfect magic or the most perfect solutions reveal themselves in the context. And so even with the courts, I don't really design them in advance at all. I go hang out with kids and we draw and I, I mean, usually like I come with prompts and I have, I have like motifs that I work with and stencils and things that are that I sometimes recycle. But for the most part, it's really important for my relational and kind of like even like social practice, which I call social magic, my process of kind of social magic, to not nail things down too far in advance. speaker-0: Mm. Okay. Yeah. And I like the idea of like non per like a non permanent art. Like piece of art. So like drawings in the snow and whatnot. And it's like cool. It's like, okay, this space in time and then this is going to like become, you know, blend in with the rest of the setting. So that's that's awesome. I love that. Next up, I do want to talk about one of your offerings, which is your siren calls. so you have reframed the siren. so from your website it says you recognize their queerness and healing power as protective alarm systems, whose calls help to reorient our bodies to the land and sea. And then you go on to say book a reading with Concho Mansurg and Sea Witch Strega Maria to gain wisdom from seashells, tarot, oracle card divination, and guided ocean meditation. Uncover themes and behaviors you've kept submerged and prepare to work with gifts and challenges that the tides toss your way. Learn to embrace a seashell familiar to buoy your intuitive growth. So I wanted to mention this because I think this is such a cool mirror to astrology. Because again, you play with that like polarity, like basketball court looking up at the sky, and then whales looking up at the sky and whatnot, and being on the north versus the south pole. So I think this is so cool to like. Again, maybe the thing that's under our noses, you know, is the ocean. We don't necessarily have to look to the sky for all of the answers. I just think I think that is so cool how that, you know, informs your art and then it also informs like your intuition and mysticism. So when was it that you realized that you could start sharing this gift with other people? speaker-1: my gosh, that's such a beautiful question. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that with the siren calls, especially, you can see there's a lot of like fun, you know, kind of like punny writing and speaker-0: So funny. speaker-1: and and like, you know, just like yeah, with like lots of puns and playful, yeah, just like well, it's funny, bells and whistles. I I was gonna say because I literally use bells and whistles in the in the readings. speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: but it's it's I think I actually like I really felt a calling to to do this work. And again, it's very much tied in with this like ocean rowing and all of the dreams and all of the kind of water the way water was really calling to me in a lot of my dreams and just like being in Boston in general. And I was also doing this one of my basketball court courts called the Seabird, which I kind of think of like the sir, you know, the sirens, the original myth of the sirens. They were sort of birds actually as well. They're kind of bird-like figures. I think of Sedna as being like in that family of siren myths. and yeah, so I was kind of just like thinking about like kind of Our Lady of Good Voyage type of of Marion. you know, like nautical Marian stories too, and honoring like the ocean, ocean mother protector, all of these things. and so I actually all of these like sort of nautical decks, like kind of tarot and oracle decks, started kind of finding me. And I actually found this one deck of 200 shell cards made by a shelled scientist whose name is Shelly. Who was from Massachusetts and I and like l lives in Massachusetts. And but I found this deck for like $2 in a thrift store in Texas, you know? Wow. I know, I know. And so, and then I had this really beautiful like tarot deck of kind of like a mermaid tarot and then another mermaid oracle. And they all kind of found me at the same time and they all have really different languages, but I just started really leaning into this, this sort of whatever these synchronicities, this calling. And I started to offer the siren reading, siren readings. And I think one of the reasons they're so decked out with all these fun kind of themes was that I I felt an imposter syndrome about being a reader for others. I'd been studying Notaro for I'm not sure how long at this point, maybe 10 well, I don't know, I don't remember, years at this point, reading for myself, reading for my friends. I had some friends be like, You're pretty good at this, you know, kind of encouraging me. But I I have this tendency to not want to teach something or offer something until I feel like I'm just an expert or I've whatever, you know, done enough of the I've I've been a devotee long enough, et cetera. So I I kind of was offering it as a performance. I thought, well, maybe I'm not maybe I'm not as advanced as some other tarot readers. So I want this to at least be entertaining. speaker-0: okay. speaker-1: It's kind of how I was thinking about it. So I would sort of dress up and yeah, do these bells and whistles. I have this kind of strange whistle that I I I'm a very good whistler. speaker-0: that's so funny. speaker-1: And I use my whistle actually to connect with my like spirits sometimes, particularly my grandfather, who's an opera singer. And and so Yeah, I I just kind of designed this this experience for people. And it was supposed to be an actual offering, but a lot of curators were booking readings with me. Like I think people were kind of booking booking readings as a per like thinking it was performance art. And I wasn't exactly sure what it what it was. But over time, you know, I was like, whoa, people are really getting what they what they need from this. Like the readings are wild. The the the way the shells are coming out, the sh they're telling. They're giving people what they need. They're telling the story. They're resonating with people. Just strange things. Again, curators are booking with me. And it's like a almost like a professional, like, you know, it's like a professional relationship, but then people are crying and not in a bad way, you know, like it's it's just really resonating for people. And so I was like, okay, yeah, you know, whether I don't know if it's like, I don't even need to credit myself for this. It that's not even the point. Whether I'm a good reader or not, it's like this space is is you know, I'm getting the yes. I'm getting the yes from spirit. This is working, this is this is offering something for people. And it's really one of the most rewarding things I've I've done. I love giving the readings. I mean, people don't actually book them a whole lot anymore. I think just because, you know, I'm like, I'm not like promoting them all the time. And I go through phases of having like more time to do them and less time to do them if I have a big deadline or something. But I was also mostly using the money to pay for like my own out of pocket medical bills because I have a lot of chronic health problems that like need they need I need practitioners that aren't covered by insurance and stuff. So it was also this kind of beautiful symbiotic thing, like your healing, my healing. Yeah, yeah. So Yeah, so it's just been it's been really cool. I kind of miss them. I kind of miss giving them. I'm you know, but people book them when they're ready to. And so I'm glad you mentioned them. Anybody's welcome to book a siren call with me. and I think the people who it works for, you know, they book them. It's like they know they know when it's for them, when they need it. So speaker-0: Wow, that's so cool. Yeah, because like I it's funny because back to you know the patron saint of this podcast, Jason Lehman. the first class I took with him was on femme fatale archetypes. So we talked about the siren. So I'm like, ooh, this I think Jason would love this too. So I'll pass that information along. But yeah, it's cool because it's like a lot of those archetypes were through the heterosexual like male gays. And like this is what this is. And it's like, okay, how do we add more dimension to this? And how can we, you know, humanize? this entity. So I think that's I've never heard of like a siren call. That is fascinating. speaker-1: Thank you. speaker-0: Again, it's a cool way to have that reclamation and that liberation. That's so cool. I love it. I love it so much. Thank you so speaker-1: much. Yeah, well, because I mean I'm I was on the ocean rowing team of shipwreck lifesavers. And it's like the sirens are known to kind of cause shipwreck. And you know, the so it's like this interesting kind of what is it, like loop or some feedback loop or something, you know, or but yeah. speaker-0: Very cool. We want to get into your current exhibition, which is called Cosmic Queer. and this is at the Women's Studio Workshop in King Kingston, excuse me, New York. and this is on view through January 8th of 2027. so I'll read the description you provided from the exhibition's booklet. So Cosmic Queer brings together recent work by Maria Moltaney from 2022 to the present, exploring their relationship with the cosmos, queer identity. Divination, and the divine, with an emphasis on their Catholic upbringing, syncretic studies, and magic practices. Artwork included pulls from Molteni's Counting to Infinity, Steloscopa, Beautiful Seven, and Heart of Stone, as well as their publishing project, Infinite God Tech, which presents research and writing that bolster the work. Molteny identifies as being in uncloseted solidarity with the miraculous. remaining open to the infinite ways that divine inspiration may reach out to them. In their artwork, they recontextualize the concept of antiphony to describe a process of call and response between the terrestrial and celestial, the self and spirit, often using variations of rosary prayer. As a queer person who has had to forge their own path within spiritual, religious and mystical contexts and cultural climates that often reject queerness, This process has been wildly playful, inquisitive, and creative. This exhibition uniquely charts this process of discovery and reclamation. Each installation is informed by both traditional and experiential research, gathered from storytelling, community building, and pilgrimage-focused travel. The artworks are inspired by mythology, but also tied to firsthand stories of numinous experiences and synchronicities that reveal small, and sometimes quite large, miracles. These experiences shape the artist's work and layered cosmology. Many Catholic and Catholic syncretic traditions incorporate the practice of leaving an ex voto or similar votive offering at blessed sites as testimony of miracles performed by a saint, deity, or other magical figure who is anchored there. They often request healing of injury or illness and depict the body parts in need of repair. Though different in form and material from typical manufactured charms, Molteni positions their artworks as ex-votos, which chart their petitions to the universe as well as proof of moments when the divine clearly responded. And it goes on to say this detailed gallery guide walks guests through the checklist of objects included in Cosmic Queer and lays out context, research, and stories that form their inclusion. Molteni suggests you keep their concepts of Antiphony and ex-voto in mind as you take in the work and read through each description. So This opened on October second. how did it go? How was opening night? This sounds incredible. speaker-1: Really well. It was actually really cool because opening night I feel like was I mean, I never expect for my openings to feel whatever. Sometimes they're anticlimactic, you know. It's you never know. You never know who's gonna show up. But I feel like opening night was very much marked by the Venus retrograde. speaker-0: okay. speaker-1: Yeah, like I was like, yeah, I forget I have all these friends that live in Kingston now, you know, from different walks of life. And some people, some people I knew lived there and just hadn't seen in a while. And then some people I didn't quite realize. And so I had like my best friend from high school that I hadn't even really seen face to face in almost 20 years showed up. And then another friend I hadn't really seen in 10 years. And it was kind of like this really almost surprisingly positive beginning of the Venus retrograde. Cause sometimes Venus retrogrades just bring your exes back in the picture. Yeah. so yeah, it was great. I felt like people really showed up and you know, and also people who have been more in like my shaker freak community came and got to see kind of a slightly different body of work. And one of my former collaborators or members of the NCAA came, you know, so Yeah, it was really it was really great. I felt celebrated during Libra season. Nice. Which I don't I don't always feel. and I felt like people got the work. And yeah, even the curator is a dear old friend and colleague of mine, Faith Levine. And it was like a really great chance for us to work together. So yeah. speaker-0: wow, I'm so glad it went well. speaker-1: Pinks. speaker-0: So I do want to talk about the rosary aspect of this from your Heart of Stone project. So rosary prayer is a long-running theme in your work. And then I found a quote from your website about Heart of Stone that explains when counting beads and beats, bodies reunite with the rhythms of heaven and earth. Through this lens, they exercise what they call celestial antiphony, a call and response relationship with the divine. so this was also stated at like in the description in the booklet. But I just think this is such an amazing take because again, like I spent so long in Catholic school and whatnot that prayer to me was always kind of like punishment. It was, you know, penance after you get or after you go to, you know, confession and whatever. So there was never really like a positive association with it or we'd have to do like rosaries like during the month of October. Actually, shit, I think that is. Isn't this speaker-1: I you know, I think of the month of May, like the May crowning and stuff, but I I'd be so I I want to look into that. Maybe maybe October does have like a particular significance. That'd be so cool. speaker-0: I just realized that in real time because I remember like having to go to mass and we'd have to pray the rosary like as a school. cool. but it was just like, you know, teachers patrolling up and down the pews, yelling at us, whatever. And it's like I, you know, I have ADHD, so like I can't handle shit like this. But right. But it was just so cool because like You know, you're taking something that has this like kind of negative feeling, or what I, you know, I'm projecting negativity onto it, but like you're able to make it playful and you're able to like stay present and then wait for the response from the divine. because I never thought I I never in my wildest imagination ever thought of like the call and response of it. And it's like that's so obvious too. Like of course it is. Like you're reaching out, you're requesting something, asking for guidance, et cetera, et cetera. And so you're hoping that someone follows up with you. so that is incredible. And I know you've had you've had some paranormal experiences around this, correct? During this heart of stone exhibition. speaker-1: Yeah, definitely. A lot of like really cool ancestor work where like they're coming through pretty loudly, you could say. And and also like Marian kind of experiences, which I've always had. I mean, maybe the reason I feel like I mean, anybody's negative associations with Catholicism are totally valid. I mean, both based on like the colonization and destruction throughout Catholicism t entire history, but also just like everyone's personal, you know, experience growing up in any kind of faith is is bound, you know, is is it's possible to have had like religious trauma. So I respect any of that. And there's some of that that I have and some of that that I don't. And I feel lucky for the things that I don't. But partially because I think I just felt this really innate connection to Mary from a very young age and you know, really like felt her present. And so Yeah, like re tr truly did. And in some ways I feel like my adult practice of working with the rosary in all sorts of ways, which includes a lot of like reclaiming it and recontextualizing it and even sometimes writing new prayers to it when whenever I felt like I can't quite get those traditional words out of my mouth, you know, has been a a way of trying to get back to that place of re receptivity that I was in as a child, actually. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: I've had a lot of the rosary has probably been present in my life longer than almost anything that I anything I can think of, other than maybe like this quilt that I've slept with for my whole life that my great grandmother made. But even the rosary goes older than that, you know, for me. And but I've had a lot of phases in and out of it and almost like crises with it. Like I don't I feel like I I don't know how to feel connected to this at this moment. I don't know how to pray this anymore. Interesting. speaker-0: Interesting. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, and it's been heartbreaking. But then I've also, you know, done a lot of like really intentional pilgrimage to like, for example, I mean, like the s seven Madonnas of Campania in Italy, like to all these kind of Marian miracle sites, you know, just to kind of be like, show me what this really is, like to help me understand what this what this really is. you know, stripped of all of its, yeah, like all these other things that the Catholic Church tried to like put on to it or that, you know. figures from my childhood tried to force onto it like this is only about yeah, punishment or something. yeah, I actually find the rosary to be very much about soothing now. And one thing I'll say is that, and I I got I did get this from the book Way of the Rose, this idea, but like they talk a little bit about how meditation might and I don't know if this is like a fact, but it makes sense, like how meditation might have come out of a more like masculine tradition of hunting because one would sit quietly in the forest for hours just waiting silently for, you know, an animal to appear. And how rosary prayer might have come out of more like matriarchal traditions of daily labor, like where you're kind of multitasking and counting beans and sewing or doing something repetitively. repetitively with your hands. And so, you know, whether it's because we grew up, you know, socialized as women or we have ADHD or whatever it is, you know, but like I find that that that's what I call like the embodied prayer or embodied mysticism, where you're like touching something, you're holding something, you're doing something repetitive that could even be done while you're doing something else. really works for me. And I I really appreciate both. I mean, like Saint Teresa, like you know, had Talked about like mental prayer and had almost like this meditative approach to prayer within a Catholic tradition. but I really appreciate the rosary and I've just been thinking of it as really actually connected to the earth. I think it's bringing me back down a little bit. Like I was doing all of these like altars to the sky and thinking about the stars, and I'm always thinking about them. And then when I was with this the sirens, I'm like, well, what are the mysteries at the bottom of the sea that are very much here that were. ignoring as we try to go out into space to find answers. I think the rosary is really taking me like inside the volcano, inside the cave, like down into the dirt. And and I've been also making these rosaries out of roses. I've been melt I've been chopping up and cooking down rose petals until they become deep, deep black mud. And I've been actually making the roses from rose petals and and doing these rosary commissions for people where they're giving me like family heirlooms and things to put on the end for those people who maybe don't feel comfortable with the crucifix at this point, you know? And so that speaker-0: Okay. speaker-1: yeah. So that they can reclaim it. Yeah. speaker-0: So it has been fantastic having you on. Do you have any last words? speaker-1: I think I'll just repeat that phrase from the statement that's you know, I am in uncloseted solidarity with the miraculous. And there's so many stories that I could tell about when I feel like my call, you know, to the universe or my call to the divine was answered. And so there's so many spooky butt stories. we could, you know, fit into many more hours of this. I've really enjoyed our conversation. speaker-0: Yeah, this has been fantastic. so Maria Moltaney, where can people find your work? speaker-1: Yeah, you can go to Maria Maltini.com. All my stuff is like very thoroughly cataloged there. I'm at Strega Strega underscore Maria on Instagram as well as Maria Maltini underscore studio and infinite goddess, like god, et cetera. also on Instagram. And I do have a Patreon and a substack where I write a lot about Shaker stuff and also these like Marian pilgrimages. but it's all on my website. So speaker-0: Perfect. And I'll have everything linked in the description. this has been awesome. This has been a f fucking fantastic birthday episode. Yay. Will you help me by saying a spooky goodbye? speaker-1: Yes, and also happy birthday to us. speaker-0: Happy birthday to us. And on that note, ooh, goodbye. speaker-1: Goodbye. speaker-0: Thank you for listening to this episode of Spooky Butt. Music by Drew Mantia. Artwork by Lauren Seely. Listen to Spookybutt on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube. Please be sure to like, rate, and subscribe. Follow SpookyButt on Instagram at Spookybutt Podcast. Need to make contact? Send us an email at spookybutpodcast at gmail.com. We'll see you on the other side. Goodbye.