Latest / Dam Parenting / From Fearful to Prepared: How Hypnobirthing and a Doula Changed Everything — Vivi and Liam's Birth Stories

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From Fearful to Prepared: How Hypnobirthing and a Doula Changed Everything — Vivi and Liam's Birth Stories · Dam Parenting

• 0:03
  Welcome back to the Down Parenting podcast.
• 0:04
  I'm your host, Eva. And while there's something
• 0:06
  about this time of year here in the Netherlands, when the sun
• 0:09
  finally remembers, it lives here too.
• 0:11
  The canals start to glitter. The tulips are all open, while
• 0:14
  someone somewhere is probably eating an ice cream they
• 0:16
  absolutely did not need but they completely deserved.
• 0:20
  Spring does something to you. It makes you feel like things
• 0:23
  are possible. And that feeling that things are
• 0:26
  possible, well, it's exactly what this episode is about.
• 0:29
  Today I'm done parenting. We have something genuinely
• 0:32
  special for the very first time. I have both parents here, a
• 0:36
  couple together sharing not one birth story, but 2.
• 0:39
  Two children, 2 births, 2 very different journeys.
• 0:42
  And yet 1 is so completely shaped by the other that you
• 0:45
  can't tell one without the other.
• 0:47
  And I'm not going to give too much away.
• 0:49
  I mean, that's the point of having them here.
• 0:51
  But what I will say is this, This episode is about knowledge
• 0:54
  and what happens when you allow yourself to be changed by it.
• 0:58
  It's about what a woman's body is capable of when someone truly
• 1:01
  believes in it. And it's about the role a
• 1:04
  partner can play in the story of a birth when they commit.
• 1:08
  You may already know 1/2 of today's couple.
• 1:11
  Liam was on the podcast back in June last year.
• 1:14
  One of my favorite ever conversations with Christo about
• 1:17
  the vulnerabilities of fatherhood.
• 1:19
  The episode, well, we got messages from that one.
• 1:22
  And so now he's back, but this time with his wife, Vivi, a
• 1:26
  Greek mom who is doing something, well, really lovely
• 1:29
  here in Amsterdam. She's building her own Greek
• 1:32
  community space, a little corner of warmth and culture for
• 1:35
  families who know what it is to carry home in your heart across
• 1:39
  a border. So two children, 2 births and a
• 1:42
  story about what changes when you stop being afraid to learn.
• 1:47
  Liam Vivi, welcome to DAM PARENTING.
• 1:50
  I'm so glad you're here. Hi, Eva.
• 1:52
  Hi, Eva. Thank you for having us.
• 1:54
  Well. Thank you guys for joining.
• 1:56
  And this is highly unusual as we have both parents here joining
• 1:59
  us. What was the decision here?
• 2:03
  Well, I don't want her to have all the limelight, really.
• 2:06
  No, but I think yeah, later, as we will explain, Liam played a
• 2:11
  very vital role in one of the birth stories, I would say not
• 2:16
  just yeah, being part of the birthing team, but he was, yeah.
• 2:20
  I was I. Was I was.
• 2:21
  A non I was a useful non birthing partner.
• 2:24
  Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah.
• 2:26
  So it would be nice to have his perspective as well.
• 2:28
  And I think in general, having a non birthing partner like you
• 2:31
  said, share their perspective, how they can support a birthing
• 2:37
  person and yeah. Yeah.
• 2:42
  So before we start, how about we get a bit of background about
• 2:44
  you guys? Where are you from?
• 2:45
  Yeah, I'm Vivi. I'm from Greece, have been
• 2:49
  living in the Netherlands since 2012, so quite some time now.
• 2:53
  And yeah, we met, Yeah, you can share something about yourself
• 2:56
  and then. Oh yeah, Yeah, cool.
• 2:58
  Yeah, I'm, I'm Liam. Hello.
• 2:59
  I'm vulnerable dad #2 from the podcast.
• 3:02
  I also joined I I came to the Netherlands in 2012.
• 3:06
  Totally separate. We just.
• 3:08
  Yeah. And then we met, I think end of
• 3:10
  2016 New Year's. Eve.
• 3:11
  New Year's. Eve, actually.
• 3:14
  So yeah, we've been together for nine years now, yeah.
• 3:17
  Nine years. And parents for 4 1/2 years.
• 3:21
  Yeah, yeah, I'm from England. Oh yeah, there's that.
• 3:26
  Yeah, sorry if there was any doubts.
• 3:27
  Apologies, I'm from there. Let's get into your birth story.
• 3:31
  How about you give us a little pregnancy background?
• 3:33
  Well, First off, how did you find out you were pregnant?
• 3:36
  How did the pregnancy go? Yeah, it was actually, I will
• 3:38
  share a bit of a funny story. So when I found out I was
• 3:41
  pregnant, we were of course, yeah, very happy and excited.
• 3:44
  And so the pregnancy test, we're like, OK, nice.
• 3:47
  But it was also there was a lot of uncertainty at the time
• 3:50
  because it was during COVID time.
• 3:51
  So that was one thing that created a lot of stress
• 3:54
  regarding, I don't know, hospital care or appointments,
• 3:58
  etcetera. Also my lack of knowledge of the
• 4:01
  Dutch system, because coming from Greece, I had this very
• 4:05
  medicalized view of pregnancy and birth.
• 4:08
  And also I didn't have anyone really close that has been
• 4:14
  recently pregnant or has given birth.
• 4:16
  So I felt quite alone and isolated, I would say.
• 4:19
  So yeah, in the beginning, I remember I saw the pregnancy
• 4:23
  test, so I don't know what the next step was.
• 4:26
  So I remember calling the house arts and saying, OK, look, we
• 4:31
  have a positive pregnancy test. I don't know what should we do
• 4:34
  now? And they were like very polite.
• 4:37
  They were like, OK, nice, good for you, congratulations.
• 4:40
  But why did you call that like, yeah, I had to explain that,
• 4:45
  look, I don't know how things work here.
• 4:47
  So they told me that you need to find a midwife and the care will
• 4:51
  be taken over by them. So then I also very innocently
• 4:56
  and very was very naive. I didn't know like, OK, can you
• 5:00
  recommend someone? Who do you have someone that you
• 5:02
  work with? I had no idea as you can tell
• 5:05
  how things work. And yeah, the response was very.
• 5:09
  Just like well done, you had successful sex.
• 5:12
  No, no, no. But they were also like, yeah,
• 5:14
  you need to Google and find one yourself.
• 5:18
  Like OK, this is. It feels like a paracetamol
• 5:21
  effect kind of things. It's just.
• 5:23
  Kind of doing, yeah, do your research, do yourself.
• 5:24
  So yeah, it was something that actually, yeah, as I said, I was
• 5:29
  already feeling, yeah, very alone and isolated due to COVID,
• 5:33
  being from another country and not knowing the system and also
• 5:36
  this response. But I managed actually to use
• 5:39
  this as my motivation to learn more, to empower myself because,
• 5:45
  yeah, hearing about home births and this whole different
• 5:49
  approach to childbirth, it was very strange for me.
• 5:53
  It was not familiar at all. I think so.
• 5:56
  I think both of us as well like. Yeah, also in the UK, Yeah, from
• 5:59
  the. UK we're both made from medical.
• 6:01
  Lives have the same approach. And my initial fingers.
• 6:03
  All right, cool. We saw out the hospitals.
• 6:06
  Stuff, Yeah. So, yeah, what I tried to do
• 6:09
  during my pregnancy, which, yeah, I was very lucky, very
• 6:13
  blessed to have a very smooth pregnancy, no complications.
• 6:17
  It was all going well. So what I wanted to do was to
• 6:21
  get as much knowledge and as much information as I could so
• 6:25
  that I can empower myself and, yeah, make the decisions that
• 6:29
  are right for us. And then I think we found our
• 6:32
  midwives. I did some birth preparation
• 6:38
  courses and reading a lot. And then we also did a
• 6:44
  hypnobirthing course with Tony, which people might know from
• 6:48
  previous episodes from Little Birth Code.
• 6:51
  She has helped us a lot with giving us all the tools to find
• 6:56
  out more about birth and pregnancy and then yeah,
• 7:01
  actually we felt we had a really good connection with her so.
• 7:05
  Oh, but OK, so let me talk about the connection.
• 7:07
  Yes, so Tony's English, I'm English straight away.
• 7:10
  Get on like a house on fire. Secondly, well, I had to get
• 7:13
  over the hypno birthing thing, the name hypno birthing because
• 7:16
  I'm like that sounds like wishy washy hippy stuff like I'm like
• 7:20
  what what we doing? And I still stand by this the
• 7:23
  branding of hypno birthing. It needs to change because as a
• 7:26
  non birthing male partner I'm a dumb dumb and I hear hypno
• 7:30
  birthing like this just. Doesn't sound right.
• 7:32
  Yeah, it's. Just what?
• 7:33
  Yeah, you do what you want to do, love.
• 7:34
  Well, I'll come along. I'll see what it is.
• 7:37
  It's just mindfulness. It's just mindfulness.
• 7:39
  It's a mindful pregnancy. It's setting up your
• 7:41
  surroundings extrinsically. You can have a good surrounding.
• 7:46
  Intrinsically you feel good that that's it.
• 7:48
  But hypnobirth and I'm like, there's going to be a doctor
• 7:50
  with a watch and shit now. OK, fine.
• 7:52
  If you really want to do this, love, we'll.
• 7:54
  We'll try it. Yeah, Yeah.
• 7:56
  And then the course we did a package of multiple people.
• 8:00
  So it's gonna be a group thing. I mean, everyone dropped out.
• 8:02
  So then it became. So that it was a cheat.
• 8:04
  It is out being a private. Private.
• 8:06
  Kind of like I was like. I.
• 8:08
  Am set. This has saved me lots of money
• 8:10
  so I'm very happy. Yeah.
• 8:12
  And then, yeah, we hadn't made a connection with Tony.
• 8:15
  She was amazing. So yeah, we decided to actually
• 8:20
  include her in our team. And so with all that, with the
• 8:25
  packages and with the Hypnobirthing, and now with
• 8:27
  Tony, what was your birthing plan?
• 8:30
  Yeah, so that's a good question because in the beginning also
• 8:33
  hearing about the birthing plan, like, I don't know what am I
• 8:37
  supposed to doing? And obviously, as I said in the
• 8:41
  beginning, coming from Grace home birth was no go.
• 8:44
  If you told me that, I would have laughed.
• 8:47
  But yeah. So we had a lot of support from
• 8:50
  Tony. She guided us through.
• 8:52
  Yeah, a lot like through all the options that we have regarding
• 8:57
  pain relief, regarding the where we can actually decide to give
• 9:02
  birth. And also of course, because
• 9:06
  birth is very unpredictable, you might want to do whatever you
• 9:09
  have in mind. But things obviously don't turn
• 9:12
  out the way you're thinking. And that's the good part about
• 9:15
  the Hypnobirthing course actually, that it gives you the
• 9:18
  tools and the knowledge and the power, I would say, to make
• 9:24
  informed decisions no matter where birth leads you.
• 9:28
  And that was very, very important for me.
• 9:31
  So because that's what the birthing plan is.
• 9:33
  Be aware about all the choices and the options that you have.
• 9:37
  So even if plan A, let's say, doesn't work, you have the
• 9:41
  option to do something else, Plan B or plan C and how you can
• 9:44
  approach those choices. So yeah, in the beginning, I
• 9:49
  think we put, I think the birthing center is our first
• 9:52
  option because it was something in between a home birth and the
• 9:55
  hospital birth. Because I'm also a person that
• 9:57
  doesn't really like this very hospital.
• 10:00
  Like how do you call this environment?
• 10:03
  Environment. Yes, exactly.
• 10:04
  So I thought the birthing center was a good compromise, let's
• 10:07
  say. And then of course, during the
• 10:10
  course of pregnancy and seeing how it evolves, you always have
• 10:14
  the option to change your mind. It's not like a rigid plan that
• 10:17
  you have to follow, obviously. Yeah, Even then, before the
• 10:21
  birth, I was very happy that we had our doula by our side to.
• 10:26
  She wasn't a doula staff with it was hitting her birth, of
• 10:29
  course, and then it was actually you could also have a doula.
• 10:33
  And I was like, I don't know what a doula is, but I.
• 10:35
  That was another. Thing yeah I'll look into that
• 10:37
  and then it was like all right cool.
• 10:40
  One thing I want to say about doulas is very marketed towards
• 10:44
  the birthing partner, but really they should also go towards a
• 10:47
  non birthing partner because they're amazing.
• 10:50
  They are absolutely bloody amazing.
• 10:52
  So yeah, all non birthing partners get yourself to do.
• 10:56
  Yeah. I do have to say, I really liked
• 10:59
  how you actually said that the birthing plan was about being
• 11:02
  aware of everything because a lot of people think the birthing
• 11:05
  plan is actually this is what I want.
• 11:07
  It's not about here's the knowledge and empowerment.
• 11:10
  So I'm really happy to hear that that's how you experienced.
• 11:12
  It exactly. Yeah, because it's a plan.
• 11:15
  It's a, they say it's a plan, but yeah, it's just plan for
• 11:18
  everything. Maybe we'll just try things.
• 11:20
  Things don't always go to. Plan.
• 11:21
  I think it's just that to make you think of, you know, things
• 11:26
  might not always work out the way we want or the, the way we
• 11:30
  wish. So think about that moment that
• 11:33
  if something goes wrong, let's say, or if something goes in a
• 11:37
  way that you haven't thought of before, like how would you
• 11:39
  react? How, what would you like to
• 11:42
  happen next? That helped a lot and it opened
• 11:45
  my mind a little bit more. So I think, and that's when I
• 11:48
  also started thinking about a home birth me as an option.
• 11:52
  And also as my pregnancy progressed and I was very happy,
• 11:57
  very healthy, no complications. I was at the end thinking, you
• 12:02
  know what, why not? So at the end, actually, we put
• 12:08
  home birth as our first option. Yeah.
• 12:11
  I remember when it was there was never any pressure or anything
• 12:14
  from my side because I was going with I'm the non birthing
• 12:18
  partner. I go with what's going on, I do
• 12:20
  all the courses of them and we'll see what we do.
• 12:23
  And yeah, the, the, the jump from birthing center to birthing
• 12:27
  at home. I was like, OK, well done, girl.
• 12:30
  I was like, because I didn't even think that was no.
• 12:34
  I knew it was an option, but I didn't know it was an option for
• 12:37
  someone like us, like someone from our background.
• 12:40
  Different. Both different countries but
• 12:42
  same hospitalised births and. Well, that's the thing, and
• 12:46
  that's why I mentioned earlier that I really believe that
• 12:49
  knowledge is power and it has empowered me throughout my
• 12:52
  journey that having the information.
• 12:55
  And of course, there's so much out there.
• 12:57
  There's a lot of information that, yeah, can sometimes make
• 13:00
  you even feel a bit overwhelmed, But focusing on what's important
• 13:03
  for you and what makes you feel safe and comfortable, that has
• 13:07
  helped me a lot. And it has helped me gain more
• 13:11
  and more confidence by the end of the pregnancy and feeling
• 13:14
  more trust in my body now that I knew also how childbirth
• 13:18
  actually works and what my body is capable of doing.
• 13:22
  So, yeah, knowledge is power being formed.
• 13:27
  All all your choices or your options.
• 13:30
  So when we look at labor, tell us how did it start?
• 13:33
  How did it feel? How did you know it began?
• 13:36
  Yes, that was also one of my worries actually, that as a
• 13:38
  first time mom, I wasn't sure like about the signs of Labor.
• 13:43
  Like how will I know if I'm in labor?
• 13:46
  Is this really it? And I guess it's one of the
• 13:49
  biggest fears of first time moms.
• 13:50
  But of course, when it happens, you do know.
• 13:52
  So I think it was a Thursday evening that my first
• 13:58
  contraction started. It was the beginning, very
• 14:00
  irregular, quite mild, manageable.
• 14:03
  It wasn't anything alarming, so I didn't inform the midwives
• 14:08
  just yet, but we were in contact with Tony the whole time and
• 14:13
  we're keeping her informed. And then the next day, so on
• 14:18
  Friday, I still kept having contractions, but still very
• 14:22
  irregular throughout the day and keeping in touch with Tony to
• 14:27
  give us, yeah, some support or advice.
• 14:31
  And we didn't ask her to come over just yet because it was
• 14:36
  still very beginning of labour. Yeah, she just advised, you
• 14:41
  know, a lot of movement. We also had some techniques that
• 14:45
  we learned during the course with Very Bozo to help with
• 14:48
  managing back pain or yeah. Yeah, that helps from from my
• 14:53
  side, just like being able to help there.
• 14:54
  Yes, like in practical ways, not just being there part of the bug
• 14:58
  you're doing great, but in actual, but in a practical way
• 15:04
  that had an immediate effect on me like it.
• 15:06
  It was some relief. So that was great.
• 15:10
  Also as well, when when you started labour straight away,
• 15:13
  that was my cue to no to make sure that the could.
• 15:17
  We had a birthing port as well. So we had to make sure that I'd
• 15:21
  already blown it up because we just got, we got it a few days
• 15:23
  before she went into labor. Oh yes, right, I forgot to
• 15:26
  mention that. So yeah, by the end when we were
• 15:29
  let's say said that OK, let's try and see if it works to have
• 15:33
  a home birth. We also rented A birthing pool
• 15:36
  because I like the. When did this happen?
• 15:39
  Like how far were you? Because that's one.
• 15:41
  Thing yeah, it was towards the end.
• 15:44
  Also, the last month we had to change houses, we had to move
• 15:49
  here, so there was a lot going on.
• 15:51
  That's a bit. So the background for this is
• 15:53
  yes. So I had just got a job.
• 15:57
  So before Vivian got pregnant, we kind of thought about, we
• 16:02
  were thinking about trying. We tried I think a year or two
• 16:04
  beforehand to actually have a kid when I had a job.
• 16:07
  And then we stopped trying because it didn't really work.
• 16:09
  And then when we stopped, no, I think it was a year before.
• 16:12
  And then when we stopped trying, that's when it happened.
• 16:15
  That's when we conceived. But I got accepted to my job,
• 16:19
  got the confirmation that I got the job in November, October,
• 16:23
  November time. And then I'm starting in
• 16:26
  January. So I got the confirmation of
• 16:29
  about a week later she's pregnant and I was just like,
• 16:33
  come on. But we were living in rented
• 16:36
  place, Lovely place, you noticed, but it was very small
• 16:39
  but very nice. But then we were like, we need
• 16:41
  to move. We need to.
• 16:42
  Yeah, we're in a bigger place, in a bigger place.
• 16:45
  I'd started my job on January. They gave me a permanent
• 16:49
  contract in the March Vivi then did the amazing thing going on
• 16:53
  funder finding a house and within all of that time we got a
• 16:58
  place. We moved in July 1st and this is
• 17:02
  July, July 20, twentieth. We're talking about 20th, 21st
• 17:06
  kind of thing. Yeah, so my due date was July
• 17:09
  25th. Yeah, so we just moved into a
• 17:11
  house. We didn't have much stuff
• 17:12
  around. It was.
• 17:13
  No, yeah. It was a crazy kind of time.
• 17:16
  So, yeah, I think around that time when we moved and we had an
• 17:20
  actual place that that's when we rented also the birthing pool
• 17:25
  and, and yeah, hoping that we might actually use it and see
• 17:29
  how that goes. Because yeah, that was also one
• 17:31
  thing that I learned from the course, that water is helping
• 17:35
  with pain relief and relaxing the body and helping with labor.
• 17:41
  Yeah, I also think we got the house because the last people
• 17:44
  liked us, because also they're a lovely couple that lived in that
• 17:47
  House of 38 years that had both their kids.
• 17:51
  Their kids have been born in this house in the bedroom.
• 17:54
  And they were like, OK, I think, I don't know if you told them we
• 17:57
  were going to have it at home, but yeah, there's, there's lots
• 18:00
  of kids that happened in that in our bedroom.
• 18:02
  Sorry. So you were on your due date
• 18:05
  then? More or less.
• 18:06
  Yeah, very close to my due date. So it was I think 3 days before
• 18:10
  when the contraction started. Yes, didn't mention that.
• 18:14
  So yeah, it happened on Thursday evening and I gave birth on
• 18:22
  early hours of Sunday. Yeah, so it was.
• 18:25
  The hours of Labor. Quite.
• 18:27
  That was too long seasons. Of 20. 4 So, So yeah, after, I
• 18:32
  think Friday, as I said, we, yeah, we were in contact with
• 18:37
  Tony and yeah, after that it was going all right.
• 18:43
  It was just, I was getting tired of after some point, of course.
• 18:46
  So it was at that point I was trying to balance movement to
• 18:51
  assist with labor progressing, but also resting because it was
• 18:55
  already a lot for me. Yeah.
• 18:57
  Then we said to Tony, stay home, it's fine.
• 19:00
  And then the next day we'll see how things are going.
• 19:02
  So then the next day I woke up and then the contraction started
• 19:07
  being a bit more frequent and closer to each other.
• 19:12
  So I think around every 10 minutes.
• 19:13
  So then we said to Tony, OK, I think it's a good time that you
• 19:16
  come to us now. And that was when I also
• 19:19
  informed the midwives things are starting to move.
• 19:24
  And yeah, Tony has actually, she has been with us from around
• 19:28
  midday when she came over and helped us a lot.
• 19:32
  Yeah, like I said, practically with massaging me, helping me
• 19:35
  relax. We went for a walk around the
• 19:38
  block just to. Yeah, more.
• 19:40
  Things. And also at the same time
• 19:43
  helping Liam help me because that was also very important,
• 19:48
  like supporting Liam so he can then support me.
• 19:51
  So I don't need to ask what do I need to do?
• 19:53
  What do I do? Because I've got I've got Tony.
• 19:56
  She's just whispering in my ear. She's whispering in my ear what
• 19:58
  I I could offer to do. So it's.
• 20:02
  Awkward. And then I think finally was the
• 20:04
  time to call the midwives like that.
• 20:06
  Look, now things are moving. It was in the evening around
• 20:11
  839. I don't know.
• 20:12
  So it was again, very, very long.
• 20:15
  I was very, very tired at that at that point already.
• 20:18
  And so they came over and we had a first check still.
• 20:23
  It was very early though. It was, I think I was like 2-3
• 20:26
  centimeters dilated. So I was like, OK, still a lot.
• 20:30
  We were also lucky so when we moved house, we moved from Host
• 20:34
  to the New West. So we had to find new midwives.
• 20:37
  Luckily we found them. We found some lovely place.
• 20:39
  We had lovely midwives in Host, yeah, and lovely midwives in New
• 20:43
  West. And we also got lucky where our
• 20:46
  midwife is called Eva. She was training.
• 20:49
  She was training to. Be yeah, because they asked me
• 20:51
  is it OK with you if we have a trainee with us?
• 20:53
  Because yeah, they need your consent.
• 20:55
  She was like about six months away from being.
• 20:57
  Foolish. Yeah.
• 20:58
  So. She had, she had, of course, we
• 21:00
  had two midwives. We had a team of midwives
• 21:02
  because she couldn't be. Yeah.
• 21:04
  And it was so good, Yeah. When they came over.
• 21:07
  So yeah, they said okay, we still have time, so see how it
• 21:11
  goes. Let us know.
• 21:12
  Obviously. So they left at that point and I
• 21:15
  think later it was just getting a lot very intense.
• 21:20
  So I think it was around 11:30, close to midnight that we called
• 21:24
  them again. I think you did or told me even.
• 21:27
  I don't remember because yeah, it was getting a lot from me.
• 21:31
  So they came over and The thing is, unfortunately still at that
• 21:36
  point, yeah, things were not progressing as fast as I was
• 21:39
  hoping for. So I was still, I think, around
• 21:41
  5 centimeters dilated. So they actually told me that,
• 21:45
  yeah, we can do nothing at this point and just wait, but you are
• 21:49
  already exhausted. And the other option that we
• 21:52
  have is we can, because also my water hadn't broken until that
• 21:56
  time. They told me we also have that
• 21:58
  option. We can induce labor by breaking
• 22:00
  the waters, but it's up to you and going again to what I was
• 22:04
  saying earlier. So being informed and knowing
• 22:06
  about all the options and all the possibilities during
• 22:12
  childbirth helps a lot. So when I made that decision to
• 22:16
  say, yes, please do that, it was coming from a very yeah,
• 22:21
  informed and yeah, knowledgeable place, if I can say it like
• 22:24
  that. I felt actually, yeah, very good
• 22:27
  with making that decision because it was, I didn't feel
• 22:29
  pushed or pressured or anything like that.
• 22:32
  It was just, look, these are the facts.
• 22:34
  It's up to you at this point. Yeah.
• 22:36
  And I think after that things started progressing and it got
• 22:40
  more and more intense and we were finally getting close to
• 22:45
  the end. And I think that's when also you
• 22:48
  fill the pool at that point. So the pools filled because they
• 22:52
  said don't do it too early because we were cold.
• 22:53
  Yeah, because of course the water will get cold and you
• 22:56
  never know how long yeah, it will take and.
• 22:59
  You were in there for a while. Yes, and even then after they
• 23:03
  did that it still took a while. I don't remember how long if
• 23:08
  someone asked me now how long was the pushing phase?
• 23:10
  I really don't remember, but it felt like a long time.
• 23:14
  Like if I think, yeah, but I think I know our son was born
• 23:19
  5:00 AM in the morning. So imagine all these hours.
• 23:22
  It wasn't pushing all these hours, but it was.
• 23:25
  Yeah, very intense contractions. And if I can also mention
• 23:29
  something that I forgot to say earlier.
• 23:30
  So when Tony came over at home and what she also did was to
• 23:34
  create a very welcome and very relaxing space in our bedroom
• 23:40
  because that's where we decided to have the birth.
• 23:43
  So we had the pool there in our bedroom.
• 23:45
  Fairy lights. Yes.
• 23:46
  So she wrote some lights. We dinked all the lights in the
• 23:52
  room. I think we also put some light
• 23:55
  music in the background. So having everything really
• 23:57
  relaxed and it felt, yeah, really good.
• 24:00
  For me it felt like a safe space, a really nice
• 24:03
  environment. But I think if we do, if we're
• 24:05
  talking about the timeline, so when you had, when we had the
• 24:08
  water broke, I think it was about 50 hours in of labour, 48
• 24:14
  hours, 50 hours. She speaks of it like I'm like,
• 24:17
  no, she was going. It.
• 24:19
  Was it she hadn't slept? She hadn't slept.
• 24:21
  And it got to a point there was empathy from the midwives, but
• 24:24
  they're also just saying, look, you are knackered.
• 24:27
  You haven't slept because you've been having contractions for
• 24:30
  very deep contractions for the last 24 hours.
• 24:32
  Before that you were having quite or not very nice
• 24:36
  contraction. You weren't, you hadn't, you
• 24:38
  hadn't really slept in the last 48 hours.
• 24:41
  How about we do this? And I think having the
• 24:44
  information beforehand and then then telling us there was great.
• 24:47
  It was wonderful, yes. And then, I mean, it was, yeah,
• 24:52
  we knew at some point that I was getting closer.
• 24:54
  I felt, of course, I think everyone that has given birth
• 24:58
  reaches that point of like, oh, my God, I cannot do this
• 25:02
  anymore. It's too much.
• 25:04
  And that's when you know that it's actually.
• 25:05
  Yeah, very, very close. So it was good to have Tony
• 25:08
  reassure me that, you know, yes, you can do it.
• 25:11
  You are doing it. Yeah.
• 25:12
  Liam was also there to help and. Sorry, as a non birthing
• 25:18
  partner, the pokey out blower back is weird.
• 25:21
  So that like when when you're getting closer, the the back
• 25:25
  just above like where the tramp stamp would be like on the back,
• 25:28
  it starts, it starts, it pokes out, it pokes and you have to
• 25:32
  massage it and it's crazy. It's, it's the, the female body
• 25:35
  is a wonderful thing, but it's yeah, yeah, jeez.
• 25:38
  Yeah, so we were arrived at the pushing stage finally, and I
• 25:43
  remember when it was, yeah, we're very close to meeting our
• 25:47
  baby. It was because I was in the
• 25:49
  water, right? I mean, in the pool.
• 25:52
  And I remember the part that I'm sorry if it's too graphic, that
• 25:55
  his head is already out. And I remember the midwives all
• 25:59
  being calm and everyone and I knew from the courses also that
• 26:02
  we did that. It's okay, you know, it's a very
• 26:06
  normal transition from home to the water for the baby.
• 26:10
  It's fine. But I think Liam was a bit in
• 26:12
  the panic. No, no.
• 26:13
  No, no, okay. I had forgotten.
• 26:15
  I had forgotten that. I was like looking at, I was
• 26:19
  like, Oh my God, my baby's heads out under the water and my brain
• 26:24
  couldn't get the information that they're fine because
• 26:27
  they're pre and for the percenter.
• 26:28
  But I just looked there was because the Cramzaw was there as
• 26:30
  well. So the Cramz, it'd been so much,
• 26:32
  so much labour. The Cramzaw was there already.
• 26:35
  She'd been there a couple hours. And I'm just watching all these
• 26:39
  professionals. I'm watching everyone.
• 26:41
  They keep very, very calm. Like on an airplane, if you get
• 26:44
  turbulence, you look at the professionals, are they calm?
• 26:46
  They're calm. Everyone's calm.
• 26:47
  So yeah. So, Liam, don't worry about it.
• 26:50
  That means things are. Yeah, fine.
• 26:53
  And then eventually our baby floated into the water.
• 26:57
  Yeah, the midwife called him and she gave it into my arms.
• 27:01
  And, yeah, it was an amazing feeling, obviously, meeting your
• 27:04
  baby for the first time. And yeah, we stayed a little bit
• 27:09
  in the water, did some skin to skin there.
• 27:12
  Of course, the midway was everything was fine.
• 27:15
  Also he was very calm and he didn't cry immediately.
• 27:18
  So that was also in the beginning was like, is he OK?
• 27:21
  But he was just very chilled, very relaxed.
• 27:25
  And then we moved into our bed. I think for me that was the
• 27:31
  greatest thing after birth, like going to my bed in my own
• 27:36
  bedroom, I felt so relaxed. So yeah, no worries at all at
• 27:41
  that point, even though the midwives needed to check me and
• 27:45
  it still the placenta needed to be born as well.
• 27:49
  It was amazing. Yeah, it felt, yeah, great being
• 27:52
  there in my own space. Yeah, it was.
• 27:55
  Lovely, yeah. It was like exhausting.
• 27:57
  It was very, very low, but I never regretted it.
• 28:01
  Like, yeah, choosing to do a home birth and being able to do
• 28:05
  so because of course you never know how it will turn out, but
• 28:08
  yeah. Yeah, we had a team, I say.
• 28:10
  We had two midwives, A doula, the.
• 28:13
  Cranzorf because yeah, that's what happens at home, births the
• 28:15
  Cranzorf. Me with my massage from behind
• 28:18
  stuff that that was that was my. And tell us.
• 28:24
  What was it like for the 1st 24 hours then at home?
• 28:26
  Mental. Yeah, well.
• 28:28
  Bloody mental. It was, I think you also have
• 28:31
  the adrenaline in the beginning because of course I was
• 28:33
  exhausted, but it was, yeah, you have so much adrenaline from
• 28:37
  birth and everything and you have this baby that you need to
• 28:42
  keep alive. But having this possibility of
• 28:45
  having the Cranzor here in the Netherlands is amazing.
• 28:48
  And especially for us that come from, yeah, not from the
• 28:53
  Netherlands that we are, yeah, international families.
• 28:56
  And we don't have the family support around.
• 29:00
  So that was great. Yeah.
• 29:02
  It gave us a lot of obviously tips and advice on how to care
• 29:05
  for the baby and doing checks on me.
• 29:09
  So it was very good to have this safety net.
• 29:12
  Let's say that's OK, Birth is good.
• 29:15
  We're dealing with postpartum now with breastfeeding and
• 29:18
  everything. And your body is still
• 29:21
  recovering, obviously. So having the crams were around
• 29:25
  is wonderful, wonderful. And we're very lucky.
• 29:28
  Like, the woman was also making great lunches for a very Yeah,
• 29:33
  but. Yeah, so I want to go back to
• 29:36
  something you said just before when you say, you know, when the
• 29:39
  birth is coming, I think you said when you're when a labour's
• 29:42
  starting and you're like this, this feels so much because we've
• 29:46
  had a second child and we we, we're going to squeeze this one
• 29:49
  in because. Well, she said those words.
• 29:52
  She said if this is the start of of Labor, I don't know if I can
• 29:57
  do this. And she was saying it out loud
• 30:00
  because it wasn't the start of Labor.
• 30:02
  It was, it was she'd already been in labor.
• 30:04
  She we've got two years on with our little baby.
• 30:08
  We were at home, we were on the day of a due date, so.
• 30:14
  Yeah, having the experience of the first one I will and having
• 30:17
  also a very good second pregnancy, I was like, yeah, why
• 30:21
  not? Of course I'm going to choose
• 30:23
  for home birth and if it works great.
• 30:26
  So my first born was born on his due date at home and for the
• 30:31
  second time we also since her Yeah support has been valuable.
• 30:38
  The first time we chose to have Tony support us again, but this
• 30:42
  time focusing more on sibling support if needed because the
• 30:46
  second time. To be honest, since I've been
• 30:48
  through YEAH childbirth and pregnancy before, this was my
• 30:52
  biggest worry. What will happen if our toddler
• 30:55
  is not in daycare and he's at home?
• 30:57
  Who will look after him and what?
• 31:01
  Yeah, so this was my biggest worry.
• 31:03
  So that's why, yeah, we said with Tony that if he's at home
• 31:08
  and you need to look after him and yeah, please focus more on
• 31:12
  him. And in the end, she didn't need
• 31:15
  to because, yeah, he was in daycare.
• 31:18
  No, we put him in. Daycare.
• 31:19
  He wasn't in daycare and we we actually proactively planned
• 31:22
  this. We went OK.
• 31:23
  Sunday night tonight. We emailed daycare and we said
• 31:28
  it's right for come in because yeah, we got Mondays, maybe
• 31:30
  contractions. It's gonna be gonna be a while.
• 31:32
  We know it's gonna be a while, so it's fine.
• 31:33
  But can you just take him and invest?
• 31:35
  Possible. Yeah.
• 31:36
  So likely he went in on a Monday and then actually I had a
• 31:41
  planned appointment on my. So it was my due date with a
• 31:44
  second. In fact, I think there were some
• 31:47
  bets going on if second one also on her due date.
• 31:52
  So we went to the midwife and we said, look, contractions have
• 31:57
  started so let's see where we're at.
• 32:00
  And she actually checked me at that point, I was 3 centimeters
• 32:03
  dilated. So in my mind, there's still a
• 32:05
  long way to go. Obviously I, I knew.
• 32:08
  I knew. I mean, I heard that second kids
• 32:11
  come. We walked to there as well.
• 32:12
  She walked, walked to the 10 minute walk.
• 32:14
  We walked there. So, yeah, obviously I've heard
• 32:16
  that second kids come usually earlier and doesn't take that
• 32:20
  long. But yeah, we didn't imagine if
• 32:23
  they would go that fast. So we walked back home, back
• 32:26
  home. And at that point, Liam was
• 32:29
  preparing the birth pool because we go to birth pool.
• 32:31
  Again, couldn't find the nozzle to to put the birth.
• 32:34
  Pool up and at some point I had my tense machine.
• 32:38
  I was getting ready and everything, but at some point it
• 32:41
  started getting so intense. Liam heard the shift in my voice
• 32:45
  and my yeah, it was like, OK, what is going on?
• 32:47
  If. It start I can't.
• 32:49
  And I told him, Oh, my God, if it's already like this, I I
• 32:53
  don't think I can do this. This is a lot.
• 32:57
  And at some point, yeah, it was so much.
• 32:59
  We obviously, yeah. Informed the midwives.
• 33:02
  And Tony was on her way as well. And at some point, I think I was
• 33:07
  on all fours, grabbing the bed, holding the bed.
• 33:11
  And I was like, oh, my God, this is a lot.
• 33:12
  Liam, can you can you actually check?
• 33:14
  Yeah, Liam, can you have a look? So I looked and I saw the head.
• 33:18
  I saw, I saw it was crowning. And I went from your guy, OK,
• 33:22
  darling. And I, I, I, when we're not
• 33:24
  breathing anymore, we're pushing.
• 33:26
  And she was like, oh, and I've never had such clarity or focus
• 33:31
  in my life. I had two things going through
• 33:33
  my head. Don't drop the baby, don't drop
• 33:35
  the baby, don't drop the baby, don't drop the baby.
• 33:38
  As well as that, it was all babies look a bit dead when
• 33:40
  they're born. All babies look a bit dead when
• 33:42
  they're born. All babies that I had those two
• 33:44
  things going over in my head and apparently I psychologically and
• 33:47
  physically primed myself to be able to catch my daughter.
• 33:52
  I I caught my daughter. I yeah, I caught my daughter.
• 33:56
  And it was a wonderful thing. It was a beautiful thing.
• 33:59
  Yeah, unbelievable. Like when Liam told me, I can
• 34:02
  see the head, I'm like, Oh my God.
• 34:05
  What do you mean? The midwife was on her way, Tony
• 34:09
  was on her way. So we were alone.
• 34:11
  I was at that point, Yeah. Liam was very yeah, supporting
• 34:15
  me amazingly because I was like, Oh my God.
• 34:19
  But it's yeah. It was so fast that I didn't
• 34:23
  even need to push or anything. My body was doing actually
• 34:27
  everything. She just.
• 34:29
  Came out. The midwife was on the phone at
• 34:31
  that point because, yeah, she couldn't find parking around and
• 34:35
  she was like, you were. On the phone and I could hear my
• 34:37
  baby crying. I could hear Vivi crying, but
• 34:40
  the biggest crying was I was just very, very, very happy that
• 34:44
  I didn't drop the baby. And I also, you remember the
• 34:48
  sunny Walkman headphones and stuff like that used like your
• 34:51
  cables would get tangled. I had that in real life because
• 34:55
  I caught the baby, didn't drop the baby, went to hand the baby
• 34:58
  up to Vivi. But then then it was Tang good.
• 35:03
  So I then have to do some basketball moves to then
• 35:06
  hopefully not drop my baby. And my God, it was yeah, but we
• 35:10
  did it. And then also I did the man
• 35:12
  thing where I cut the umbilical cord and I was like, I've
• 35:17
  delivered this, so it's fine. I cut the wrong side.
• 35:19
  So blood everywhere. I I failed at the easy thing
• 35:22
  that men get to the easy thing. So yeah, that was wonderful.
• 35:26
  So you just OK, well, hold on a second.
• 35:34
  The thing was it was great hearing your first birth and the
• 35:37
  way you just smoothly transitioned to your second
• 35:39
  birth. But I just think it's so
• 35:41
  amazing, Liam, the fact that you, you did it like no
• 35:45
  Cramzorg, no, Tony and Vivi, the fact that you so quickly went
• 35:54
  through it, I mean, that must have been terrifying for you as
• 35:58
  well, not knowing what was happening, especially since you
• 36:00
  had literally just been measured and anticipated a much longer
• 36:06
  labor, as it were. So.
• 36:08
  That's actually incredible to hear from both your sides
• 36:11
  because one both from medicalized countries, 20 how
• 36:15
  are we going to do this home birth the three now actually
• 36:18
  doing it just yourselves. Free burn.
• 36:23
  Apparently I heard of a name for it.
• 36:25
  I would I it's all it's it's it's, it's a lot.
• 36:29
  Yeah, No, it was, I have to say, like I said, I I wasn't
• 36:35
  expecting it would progress so, so fast obviously.
• 36:39
  And that's why I wanted to walk to the maid wife because we had
• 36:41
  the appointment and they told me, yeah, you didn't need to
• 36:44
  come all the way here. You we could have just come, we
• 36:48
  do it at home, but I'm like no, no, no.
• 36:50
  I remember from the first time walking and movement is good.
• 36:52
  It helps labor progress. So yeah, we came back home, we
• 36:57
  started preparing and then there was no time to prepare.
• 37:01
  It was just go time. So yeah, it was that's why I
• 37:06
  panicked for a moment because I was thinking that we still have
• 37:09
  a long way ahead. Having that first experience,
• 37:12
  obviously having this in mind, I was like, I'm not going to be
• 37:16
  able to make it If this is this intense right now, I'm not going
• 37:22
  to be able to make it until the end.
• 37:24
  I might need to go to the hospital.
• 37:25
  But I was thinking at the same time, is it too late to go to
• 37:28
  the hospital? What I need some pain relief or
• 37:30
  something like? So yeah, it was a lot at that
• 37:33
  point, but luckily, yeah, Liam helped me.
• 37:37
  I calm down, use my breathing because in that moment I've
• 37:41
  obviously forget everything. No, it's not bear thing.
• 37:44
  No breathing. And it happened all so fast that
• 37:50
  after that I didn't have time to think, to be honest, after he
• 37:53
  told me, OK, I see your head, I see it.
• 37:56
  Then it was just, yeah, it happened.
• 37:58
  Not breathing. And pushing, darling, we're.
• 38:00
  Pushing Yes and no. It was wonderful in the end
• 38:06
  because also she cried immediately.
• 38:07
  So that worry was gone. That OK, she she sounds healthy.
• 38:13
  And it was just a matter of minutes for also the midwife to
• 38:18
  come. And Tony also was just ringing
• 38:21
  the bell at the same time, actually, which was weird to
• 38:25
  hear. She was like, why aren't they
• 38:26
  answering the door? So yeah, it was, it was crazy.
• 38:31
  So both kids at home on their due dates, which, yeah, doesn't
• 38:37
  happen very often from what we've heard.
• 38:39
  One more question about that, though, is what happened with
• 38:41
  the placenta now with the second baby.
• 38:44
  Yeah. So by the time it was, yeah,
• 38:47
  time to for the placenta to come, the midwife was already
• 38:50
  there. So it wasn't too long actually.
• 38:52
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, she was already very close.
• 38:55
  Yeah, within 5 minutes. I think both Tony and the
• 38:58
  midwife was there, yeah. I mean, yeah, I mean Jace, yeah.
• 39:04
  Because it also there's road work stuff, so it's really hard
• 39:06
  to. Get Yeah, that's the thing.
• 39:07
  She was late because she couldn't park around.
• 39:09
  There was. Construction.
• 39:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, it was thinking about
• 39:14
  the first place that took it was like 60 hours.
• 39:17
  Yeah, like a marathon. Yeah.
• 39:19
  Yeah, and then you have the second one that is mental so, so
• 39:23
  fast. I mean that's what they always
• 39:26
  say. The second one comes quicker
• 39:27
  than the first one. Yeah, quicker seems.
• 39:29
  To hear. Quicker.
• 39:30
  But we thought quicker means 24 hours.
• 39:33
  Yeah, it's not, not what this was.
• 39:36
  This was ridiculous. And it was just, Oh my.
• 39:38
  I think what time? Was just made it.
• 39:41
  What time this was a? Around 1:00.
• 39:43
  Once he was born, yeah. I'm just thinking about your son
• 39:46
  being in daycare. I'm just wondering how many
• 39:48
  hours did you have left and. Oh, we had a few hours, Yeah.
• 39:53
  So we had a few hours with the baby.
• 39:56
  Oh yeah. And the clamsar came after, of
• 39:58
  course, the birth because yeah, no, if it's a home birth, they
• 40:02
  need to be there as well. So they are also informed.
• 40:05
  But yeah, you didn't have time, obviously so.
• 40:09
  She was there. She helped, yeah, with
• 40:12
  everything. And also there was no stitches
• 40:15
  needed or anything. It was, yeah, that was amazing
• 40:18
  the second time. So she, yeah, I was there to
• 40:23
  help with the baby. And also the second time,
• 40:25
  because you've been through it already, you don't need that
• 40:29
  much of how do I deal? How do I change the diaper?
• 40:32
  How do I feed the baby? It was a whole day's worth.
• 40:37
  So we dropped off to daycare and then we got back and then we
• 40:41
  went for the midwife appointment and then we got back and then
• 40:44
  the baby was here like about. And then we took him back home.
• 40:47
  Yeah. And obviously picked him up from
• 40:49
  daycare. He came back home with his baby
• 40:51
  sister. Yeah.
• 40:54
  It was amazing, was lovely. I do remember just the feeling
• 40:59
  after it all settled down. Vivi was in bed, the baby was in
• 41:02
  bed and stuff like that. I I remember just being in
• 41:07
  shock. Yeah, probably in shock of it
• 41:09
  all. But then just like, everyone's
• 41:12
  asleep, everyone's happy. I mean, I just walk into the
• 41:15
  bathroom, look in the mirror and just go.
• 41:18
  I I felt like I was talking to the universe just going what
• 41:21
  else you got? Like something some caveman shit
• 41:24
  came over me kind of stuff. I was just like, I guess, I
• 41:27
  guess that happened. Cool.
• 41:28
  I didn't drop the baby. Awesome, but catching the baby
• 41:32
  Jesus, like you have the golden hour.
• 41:34
  I don't know what I had a platinum minute or something
• 41:36
  like that. I'm just like that Sounds like a
• 41:38
  chat like. But no, it was it was.
• 41:42
  Aw, yeah, nothing, nothing like that in the world.
• 41:45
  Yeah, amazing. Isn't the female body amazing?
• 41:48
  Oh yeah, I've, I've, I've admired it for years.
• 41:51
  Yeah, well, but so looking back, so you've discussed 2 births
• 41:59
  there, can I ask how did it go in the 1st 24 hours then with
• 42:04
  the baby now in the house and with your son and with
• 42:07
  yourselves? And what help did you have?
• 42:08
  Because obviously we're immigrants here.
• 42:10
  So how does that work out for you guys?
• 42:13
  What support were you needing? What did you what did you enjoy
• 42:16
  having or what did you wish you had had?
• 42:20
  So both times we've made the conscious decisions, decision
• 42:24
  not to have parents around during the birth because we knew
• 42:28
  that, yeah, there's a Cranzor involved.
• 42:32
  And we, yeah, we chose to have home birth.
• 42:35
  So we said if there's so many people in the house and also
• 42:40
  all, yeah, we don't know when the kid will come.
• 42:43
  It might come early. It might come, yeah, a week or
• 42:46
  so after. So the only support that we had
• 42:50
  both times after birth, so postpartum was the kamsar at
• 42:54
  that point, which it was a very different experience than the
• 42:58
  first time. So the second time it was I
• 43:00
  think mostly focusing on me getting some rest, which happens
• 43:05
  also the first time. Yeah, But this time because you
• 43:08
  have, like you said, a very active toddler and it, it wasn't
• 43:12
  so much with showing me how to do things because we knew all
• 43:15
  those things. So it was mostly entertaining a
• 43:18
  little bit our son if he was there, if he wasn't in daycare
• 43:23
  and also looking after me so Liam can spend some time with
• 43:28
  the baby and I can have some time to myself to rest.
• 43:32
  So in this way it looked a bit different than the first.
• 43:35
  Time. Yeah, I can't speak more highly
• 43:39
  than the Crams or service. I mean, I know some people have
• 43:42
  trouble and it makes sense, like if some people don't work with
• 43:45
  other people, but we were just very, very lucky.
• 43:49
  Yeah, what we got. So looking back for anyone
• 43:52
  listening, is there any tips, tricks, hints or anything you
• 43:57
  would like to share? I think from my side what I
• 44:01
  shared also in the beginning that knowledge is power.
• 44:04
  Read as much as you can, find information, see what works best
• 44:09
  for you so that when the time comes and things go slightly
• 44:16
  different way, you know that that is also an option.
• 44:19
  And you can yeah, make informed decisions and find a very good
• 44:25
  birthing team, which is midwives do life, you can afford it and
• 44:29
  if you want to, because some people maybe don't want it and
• 44:32
  the comes work, of course. And also for the non birthing
• 44:36
  partners to be more involved and not just be a spectator because
• 44:41
  it used to be in the past that yeah, for example, my dad is
• 44:44
  very proud that he was there just to witness.
• 44:47
  But that is now the. Very.
• 44:49
  I work in a pub. Yes.
• 44:51
  So yeah, also for non birthing partners to be able to support.
• 44:56
  Maybe don't get so close. You don't need to.
• 44:59
  You don't need to do it, but just you don't have to be that
• 45:03
  you don't. Have to deliver.
• 45:04
  You don't have to deliver. You don't.
• 45:05
  I Yeah, from my side, hire Tony as you do that.
• 45:10
  Definitely. I would.
• 45:11
  I would definitely say that she she's amazing.
• 45:13
  Yeah. From a number from partner.
• 45:15
  It helps, yes. And it must have been an amazing
• 45:18
  bonding experience for both of you to have just been in that
• 45:20
  sacred bubble. Of course, Yeah, yeah.
• 45:24
  Yeah, yeah. I felt very not alone.
• 45:28
  I felt like there was no guardrails, like the the
• 45:31
  everything that I had known in life is gone.
• 45:35
  And I was alone apart from this one person who is my partner
• 45:40
  doing this. And so being so alone, but then
• 45:45
  being alone with this person who I love built up some sort of
• 45:49
  crazy. Like there's a bond there.
• 45:52
  Yeah. No, it was an amazing
• 45:53
  experience, very empowering. In the end, it was.
• 45:57
  Mental. Yeah, but very, very empowering.
• 45:59
  Very. But just to be in that moment
• 46:02
  where you're just together for those few minutes and then as
• 46:06
  you lift your daughter out and then having doorbells ringing
• 46:10
  and phones ringing and everything else and it's.
• 46:12
  Like, wow. I mean not just DS1 moment.
• 46:15
  Yeah, that. Was that was?
• 46:17
  Yeah. Guys, thank you so much for
• 46:20
  sharing. Greatly appreciate.
• 46:22
  I mean, Liam, you're back and forth with me a lot as it is.
• 46:25
  So I'm delighted to have Vivi, your wife, on with us as well to
• 46:29
  Share your story as as you shared.
• 46:31
  I mean, I was a bit skeptical going, Liam, get off the
• 46:35
  podcast. It's not about you.
• 46:36
  I want Vivi here. But you were saying no, no, no,
• 46:39
  hold on. This is a story for both of us
• 46:42
  to share. And I'm really glad you both
• 46:43
  came off and did this together. So guys.
• 46:46
  Thank you so much for sharing with the listeners because,
• 46:50
  Vivi, exactly like you said, it's about building up your
• 46:52
  knowledge and having that to empower you and to help you
• 46:55
  advocate for exactly what you want once you have all the
• 46:57
  knowledge. Exactly.
• 46:59
  Yeah. Thank you for having us.
• 47:01
  It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
• 47:04
  Liam Vivi, thank you, genuinely thank you for coming on
• 47:07
  together, for being open, for sharing both of these stories
• 47:10
  without holding back. Conversations like this one are
• 47:12
  exactly why this podcast exists, and I greatly appreciate the
• 47:16
  humor with it. What stays with me from today is
• 47:18
  something I think that applies so far beyond birth.
• 47:21
  When we take the time to really learn about the system, about
• 47:24
  the process, and about what our bodies are actually capable of,
• 47:28
  we give ourselves a chance at an experience we didn't know we
• 47:32
  were allowed to want. And that's not a small thing,
• 47:35
  Vivi. The way you were describing what
• 47:36
  your body did and how much of that was unlocked by
• 47:39
  preparation, by trust, and by having people around you who
• 47:42
  believed in it, I think that is going to land for a lot of
• 47:45
  people listening and Liam listening to you speak about
• 47:48
  your role in the room as a partner and a father.
• 47:51
  Well, the difference between the first birth and the second
• 47:53
  birth, I think that's also a great conversation piece.
• 47:56
  I think more men need to hear two children, both born on their
• 48:01
  due dates, completely different timelines, same family
• 48:03
  transformed by learning. It's an amazing story and I'm so
• 48:07
  grateful you shared it here. If today's episode sparked
• 48:10
  something in it for you, if you have a birth story of your own
• 48:13
  that you think this is community you should hear, I'd love to
• 48:16
  hear from you. I think everyone would.
• 48:18
  You can message us on Spotify, find us on Instagram, or drop us
• 48:22
  an e-mail at downparentingpodcast@gmail.com.
• 48:25
  Not all of our plans go the way we hoped, but when we take the
• 48:28
  time to understand the system, to trust the process, and to
• 48:32
  truly believe in what our bodies can do, we give ourselves the
• 48:36
  best possible chance of the experience we're hoping for.
• 48:39
  That knowledge is yours. Go get it.