Latest / The Brewery Underground Podcast | Craft Beer Interviews, Reviews and Beer Travel / Esoteric Brewing: Anique Thomas & John Reece on Cincinnati Craft Beer | Episode 82

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Esoteric Brewing: Anique Thomas & John Reece on Cincinnati Craft Beer | Episode 82 · The Brewery Underground Podcast | Craft Beer Interviews, Reviews and Beer Travel

• 0:25
  Well, you know, the Brewery Underground podcast, we
• 0:28
  sometimes got Turon. We tried to live up to our name
• 0:31
  because we go to breweries and we love talking to the folks
• 0:35
  that work at breweries that, you know, I don't know, they brew
• 0:39
  beer and they hang out and they work there.
• 0:41
  And today is no exception. We have a great brewery on from
• 0:45
  Cincinnati, Esoteric Brewing, my friend, and you guys, you guys,
• 0:51
  us guys, all of us, we were all there at Esoteric in Cincinnati
• 0:56
  in mid-May. Yeah, thanks for having us on,
• 0:59
  guys. We really, Yeah, we enjoyed good
• 1:04
  two hours worth of drinking and conversation.
• 1:08
  We were, we were so worried. We were so worried when you were
• 1:10
  holding up something that you guys something important.
• 1:14
  Hey, you know what? When we have people in and, you
• 1:16
  know, the conversation's good, the beers just keep flowing.
• 1:19
  And that's, that's, yeah. Why do what we do?
• 1:21
  It is. Well, it's a pleasure because we
• 1:23
  have John Reese, who's the assistant brand manager for
• 1:26
  Esoteric and and Nick Thomas, who is the head Brewer.
• 1:30
  And yeah, we're, we're very, very glad that you guys are here
• 1:33
  with us. Yeah, and I love guests that
• 1:35
  we've already met once. It's a little easier sometimes
• 1:38
  because you. Yeah, you've met, you know, and
• 1:40
  it's just like, hey, you know, we kind of already know each
• 1:42
  other. We drink beer together, so like
• 1:44
  that. We we broke bread.
• 1:46
  Yes, yes, we did. And again, we slowed down your
• 1:48
  productivity that day. But hey, we're here now.
• 1:52
  Scott, my day was already done. Yeah.
• 1:55
  I will say, I will say you didn't seem to be in a hurry.
• 1:58
  Well, well, not at all, I mean. And we got your, we got your
• 2:02
  titles right and your names right on the on the podcast too.
• 2:05
  Is that right? Yeah.
• 2:06
  All right. Well, it's always, it's always
• 2:08
  helpful make sure that we're starting off correct.
• 2:11
  So, yeah, Yeah. Awesome.
• 2:12
  John, I see. John, I see in your, in your
• 2:15
  video there you've got your nickname.
• 2:16
  Is that juice? Yeah, yeah, I guess I never told
• 2:20
  you that my, my nickname is Juice.
• 2:24
  I've been in the beer and food and wine industry for a long
• 2:28
  time, and it's a nickname I acquired right out of high
• 2:31
  school. And, you know, it just kind of
• 2:32
  stuck with me. And I figured it was very
• 2:35
  appropriate for for this industry, so I just kept it
• 2:38
  around. So yeah, everybody just calls me
• 2:40
  Juice. That's great.
• 2:42
  That's great. Well, we'll call you Juice from
• 2:44
  now. On.
• 2:46
  Well, you mentioned just recently, you just, you just
• 2:48
  mentioned a couple of minutes ago when we came to visit, you
• 2:51
  gave us plenty of juice, the beer juice when we were, when we
• 2:55
  were hanging out, man, there was a couple hours of just a lot of
• 2:58
  fun. I'll tell you what, when you
• 2:59
  brought out, I think it was at them when at that Belgian quad
• 3:02
  towards the end there and I was like all right, time for some
• 3:05
  food. I kind of let with the light and
• 3:08
  ended with the, you know, every 10% Nirvana, which, you know,
• 3:13
  Heinz says 2020, of course. But you know, we all went and
• 3:16
  got about some food afterwards. So that's what.
• 3:18
  Matters, Absolutely, definitely. It was a great beard, Steve told
• 3:21
  me later. He goes, Yep, that's when it was
• 3:22
  about to turn for me. After that, that that 10%, he
• 3:25
  goes like AI could feel things starting to change a little bit.
• 3:28
  Let's go eat. Well, I mean, yeah, you guys had
• 3:30
  Ipas before that, and I was there just drinking light lagers
• 3:33
  and I was like, Oh yeah, you know, it sounds great.
• 3:35
  Belgian Quad. Oh yeah.
• 3:38
  Well, you know that that week we were on the brewery hunt anyway,
• 3:41
  and we had actually come from Little Miami Brewing before we,
• 3:45
  you know, arrived at your place. And so we were doing it up large
• 3:49
  there and then we got the esoteric and did it even larger.
• 3:53
  So it was, it was fantastic. Yeah.
• 3:55
  How was the rest of your guys's trip?
• 3:57
  It was great. Yeah, it was great.
• 3:58
  That was actually that day. That was the last end of our
• 4:02
  trip for Cincinnati. Then we ended up in Cleveland
• 4:05
  for a couple days and went to Great Lakes and Masthead couple
• 4:08
  other places and in Columbus. So, yeah, the whole, the whole
• 4:11
  trip, the whole week was just a lot of fun.
• 4:13
  You know, being from Cincinnati, I I just love coming up there
• 4:17
  and hitting all the breweries. I mean, I probably have been to
• 4:19
  and Scott's the same way I've probably been to about, you
• 4:21
  know, maybe half at this point. I mean, when you look at how
• 4:24
  many there are, how many there are probably been there were
• 4:26
  like 45, yeah. That's, I mean, you're, you're
• 4:29
  right on half. That's it's kind of crazy.
• 4:32
  Like more and more like are popping up.
• 4:34
  I mean some are, some are unfortunately closing well then
• 4:37
  you have some that are are starting to open up a good sign.
• 4:41
  Yeah, you got some open up and then you got some expanding too,
• 4:44
  right? You got a bracket who's added
• 4:46
  just another location after high wire went down and things like
• 4:49
  that. We've got a couple scenarios
• 4:50
  like that around here, like somebody would go out, but then
• 4:52
  we've got others expanding and adding second and third
• 4:54
  locations, which is great. You know, it's a balancing out.
• 4:57
  Yeah, yeah. Especially I mean, it seems like
• 5:00
  there are a lot of the, the bigger, the bigger players up
• 5:02
  here that are starting to open up second locations.
• 5:04
  I mean, yeah, like you mentioned, Scott, you have
• 5:07
  Braxton taking over the high wire spot and then Mad tree just
• 5:10
  opened up a massive complex up there and Blue Ash.
• 5:13
  So I mean, good on them. Like if they have the capacity
• 5:16
  to do that. I I love that and you know it,
• 5:19
  it only brings more competition, you know, tied, right.
• 5:22
  But rise with all the tides or whatever.
• 5:25
  Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I would get that one
• 5:28
  wrong too. But you know what, that's a good
• 5:30
  point. But don't you think in in a lot
• 5:32
  of ways that does help your business and help you guys?
• 5:35
  Because you know, we're brewery guys when we come up, it's not
• 5:38
  just, you know, stopping at one brewery.
• 5:40
  We want to hit them all. And then, you know, once we once
• 5:43
  we hit, hit a lot of different ones, we want to keep coming
• 5:46
  back. And you know, that's our
• 5:48
  experience. I can say with esoteric and I
• 5:50
  can speak for myself that I go back about, you know, four years
• 5:54
  ago when I started getting your beer and can, you know, stopping
• 5:57
  in like party source, you know, on my way back to Nashville and
• 6:01
  I was like, man, what a what a what a great bunch of beer.
• 6:04
  Thank you, Anik yes, it's all I'm growing it up there.
• 6:08
  I'll. Just make things look pretty.
• 6:10
  You know, part of our trip and we had a Mexican lager at your
• 6:12
  place and it was the Paraiso. I say that correctly.
• 6:15
  Is that, and that whole trip, whether it was Cincinnati or all
• 6:18
  the way up through Cleveland, it seemed like we were on a Mexican
• 6:21
  lager tour. Everywhere we went had one and
• 6:24
  they were all wonderful. I'm sure it's, you know, the,
• 6:26
  the time of year kind of dictates because it's hot and
• 6:29
  you know, it's a light, it's a light beer.
• 6:30
  But man, everyone in in yours especially was so good.
• 6:34
  Everybody's killing it on the Mexican loggers.
• 6:36
  And we weren't even trying. We just, we everywhere we'd go,
• 6:38
  there just be 1. Yeah, yeah.
• 6:40
  I mean, originally we, we brewed that for Dewey's pizza to kind
• 6:45
  of fill in that like slot going into really the Cinco de Mayo
• 6:49
  sort of seasonality to and we wanted to brew something that
• 6:53
  was a little bit lighter, of course, but has that nice little
• 6:56
  like sweet maze. I mean, you can speak more to
• 6:59
  the brewing process than I can, but we we're really trying to
• 7:03
  like go for something kind of like a Pacifico or Tecate that's
• 7:06
  like you can grab and just, you know, throw down four or five of
• 7:09
  them and, and still really enjoy them and still really have like
• 7:13
  that same palate where you can go eat something and not feel
• 7:17
  like you had had like a Belgian quad or.
• 7:21
  It makes it like people too, that, you know, if they're not
• 7:25
  necessarily a huge into crap beer, but they want to try
• 7:28
  something new, you can give a Pariso or something similar and
• 7:32
  be like, oh, this is like a Pacifico.
• 7:33
  And people are like, oh, OK, I know that that's safe.
• 7:36
  Yeah, it's, it's to your point, it's like such a great like
• 7:39
  gateway beer to kind of like bring people who don't
• 7:44
  necessarily drink craft beer into the fold because it's
• 7:47
  something that just reminds them of something that they've had
• 7:49
  before. Yeah.
• 7:51
  And we've all seen groups of people come in.
• 7:52
  You guys probably especially see groups of people come in,
• 7:54
  friends, right? And there's always maybe one
• 7:56
  person that, hey, we're going to go somewhere else after this
• 7:59
  because this person doesn't drink beer.
• 8:00
  But if you have something for them, they're going to stick
• 8:02
  around long. Yeah, I mean that's that's the
• 8:04
  main goal you kind of as a brewery, right?
• 8:07
  Especially like kind of seeing the evolution of, of breweries,
• 8:11
  like you want to be able to provide people, you know, each
• 8:14
  and every option that you can to keep people happy for a little
• 8:17
  bit longer. So like providing them with
• 8:20
  those lighter beers that are more, you know, in tune to what
• 8:23
  they're used to. It is a very big thing for us.
• 8:25
  Yeah, I went back to see what was the very first beer I ever
• 8:30
  checked in. You know, we use the untapped
• 8:32
  app and I went back and I'm looking at it now and this was
• 8:35
  back in that. It was actually on New Year's
• 8:39
  Eve. It was in 2022.
• 8:41
  The first esoteric beer I had was Illuminati, your house
• 8:44
  lager, perfect, you know, which are like quite a bit.
• 8:47
  And you know, you guys I guess have like a, a good group of
• 8:52
  core beers basically that started from the beginning when,
• 8:56
  if I'm not mistaken, you guys open around 2020, is that right?
• 8:59
  Yeah, September of 2020, obviously.
• 9:02
  Time ever in human history. Yes, Yeah, we all remember what
• 9:07
  we were doing in 2020, which was basically outside of drinking
• 9:11
  and hanging out. So yeah, we opened up in 2020.
• 9:14
  And, you know, especially in a city like Cincinnati where
• 9:18
  brewing brewing is so prevalent, We we had, we knew we had to
• 9:22
  come out with some pretty strong core beers, right?
• 9:24
  Because we're in a city with truth, with psychopathy, with
• 9:27
  doom pedal with you betcha with legendary lager.
• 9:31
  Now, since you like we knew to sustain success, that's one
• 9:36
  thing that we really needed to hit hard.
• 9:38
  So our core beers are definitely like essential to, to who we are
• 9:42
  because we know that's what people are going to grab for,
• 9:44
  especially in a city like Cincinnati where people are very
• 9:47
  like habitual, right? They, they grab, they know what
• 9:50
  they like and they grab what they like.
• 9:51
  So we try to fit that into our our our core group.
• 9:55
  Anik is the Brewer. Has that been?
• 9:57
  What kind of a learning process has that been from you for?
• 10:01
  Did you start there as the head Brewer in the beginning or is
• 10:03
  that something that you acquired as you went along?
• 10:05
  No, when I started at Esoteric I was actually just one of their
• 10:09
  bartenders. Okay, gotten into the industry
• 10:13
  via March 1st and start bartending there during Kovid
• 10:18
  survived that. And then I knew someone who used
• 10:21
  to work with Brian when he was at mad tree and they were like
• 10:24
  you should go apply to be a bartender esoteric.
• 10:27
  You're really vibe with everyone.
• 10:28
  So I applied, I bartended and I noticed that Brian had like, you
• 10:32
  know, all the brewing equipment, all the brews at the lab and I
• 10:35
  was like, hey, I have a science background.
• 10:37
  Let me help you. I can just teach me and they
• 10:40
  came out with a position and I remember they're like they open
• 10:43
  it to everyone on our team. You know, it's fair.
• 10:45
  And I told everyone I went to each and everyone of you said
• 10:48
  I'm taking this. So I applied to basically just
• 10:51
  be a seller person to learn from basically at the bottom to
• 10:55
  learned how to clean kegs. And he eventually just worked in
• 10:58
  more like here, let's clean kegs, let's learn how to cake
• 11:01
  beer, let's learn how to clean a tank.
• 11:03
  And so then I've worked my way up to being seller Christians of
• 11:07
  being head Brewer. And I've been a head Brewer for
• 11:09
  a year now, technically. Yeah.
• 11:15
  Yeah, couple years and then officially like took on the head
• 11:18
  Brewer title and took on all the other responsibilities that came
• 11:21
  with it. Well, to build on that, it was
• 11:23
  funny, like when Anik came and she started in the cellar, every
• 11:27
  day at lunch, she would come up and she would always have, like,
• 11:31
  a brewing book in front of her. And I'm just like, this is
• 11:33
  commitment. Like I Yeah, like tubing away on
• 11:37
  a computer, like trying to like finger paint, as some people
• 11:40
  like to say. And she's heading the book,
• 11:43
  right. And I think it's turned out
• 11:45
  pretty well for us, so I'm not gonna.
• 11:49
  And you mentioned Brian, that's Brian Jackson, who is your
• 11:52
  owner. And he also, he's got roots
• 11:55
  going back to, you know, Madtree, right?
• 11:58
  He was at, he was at Madtree a number of years ago before he
• 12:01
  came to and, you know, started esoteric.
• 12:04
  Yeah, Brian was one of the Brewers at Madtree one point O
• 12:08
  so he's been doing this for quite a few years.
• 12:11
  He started. Unfortunately, he's not going to
• 12:12
  be here with us tonight just because he's a.
• 12:16
  Sure, yeah. But yeah, he started at 1.0, but
• 12:20
  he actually really started as a home Brewer and kind of figured
• 12:24
  out the science behind that. His background is actually in
• 12:26
  psychology, which is he went to UC for psychology.
• 12:29
  And then he ended up falling in love with beer.
• 12:31
  He started home brewing. And kind of the moment that he
• 12:34
  realized, like, you know, this is something that he would love
• 12:37
  to do is he he won. What's the home Brewer
• 12:40
  competition? Beer and sweat put on by one of
• 12:43
  the local homebrew organizations here in the city.
• 12:45
  And once you've won that, it was kind of like straight to the
• 12:48
  moon. So he's like, I'm gonna start a
• 12:51
  brewery and gonna start at Madry and then figure out my business
• 12:55
  plan from there. And you eventually got funding.
• 12:58
  Here we are. Here we are.
• 13:00
  Yeah, and it was such a pleasure meeting him too, for a few
• 13:03
  minutes when we came up there and we got the chance to talk to
• 13:06
  him for a little bit. We knew that day he was pretty
• 13:09
  busy. You guys had a lot of events
• 13:11
  going on. But I think the important thing
• 13:13
  too that we wanted to really talk about is the fact that you
• 13:16
  know when he when he started Esoteric that you guys are the
• 13:19
  1st and I believe the only minority owned brewery in
• 13:21
  Cincinnati. Is that right?
• 13:23
  Yes, there was actually one other one.
• 13:27
  They were Cincinnati brewing. Cincinnati Brewing Company that
• 13:32
  started it was based on a lockland and they were also
• 13:36
  minority owned. But within the city limits.
• 13:39
  We are the only black on brewery and we still are the only like
• 13:43
  black gun brewery in the cities. It's definitely like a badge of
• 13:47
  honor that we wear for sure. Because in an industry that
• 13:50
  where a lot of people look like me, you know, it's good to have
• 13:53
  like diversity. It's good to have different
• 13:55
  types of thought because it only pushes the craft even further
• 13:59
  than what it is now. And you know, when you start
• 14:01
  involving different people from different backgrounds, just the
• 14:04
  creativeness just kind of blooms and it becomes so much more
• 14:07
  beautiful. So it is a badge of honor that
• 14:10
  we wear and we we love it, but we just, we don't want to be
• 14:13
  known just as that. We want to be known as a brewery
• 14:15
  that makes Stamp good beer, which definitely does.
• 14:20
  Hey Andy, as a head Brewer, what are some of the duties you have
• 14:23
  during the day? Because I'm sure everything is
• 14:25
  glamorous, right? I've been, it's all unicorns
• 14:28
  and, and fairy dust, right? It's it's what everybody dreams
• 14:31
  to be, right? Right.
• 14:33
  It's always those jokes that you see that like they're like, oh,
• 14:35
  you have the fun job. I'm like, yeah, my job's fun.
• 14:38
  It's a lot of hard work, but I don't know the kind of typical
• 14:43
  day. It just really depends.
• 14:45
  Like I I'm so with my head Brewer titles, I'm given the the
• 14:50
  job of, of the whole production schedule.
• 14:52
  And so basically last December, I had to prep the whole, this
• 14:56
  year's whole schedule as much as I could with what we were coming
• 15:00
  out seasonally, our core beers. And then anything else that I'll
• 15:05
  just try to have something come out almost every other week at
• 15:07
  least what like 2 releases? A month that we do two or three
• 15:10
  releases a month. And so doing that and so with
• 15:14
  that schedule, what's nice is that it basically kind of tells
• 15:16
  you like this needs to be dropped to this temperature,
• 15:20
  this needs to be biofined, this needs to be kegged.
• 15:22
  And so I basically just go off with that.
• 15:24
  And then really it's just me down there most of the time.
• 15:28
  Brian's doing his stuff off site, doing deliveries.
• 15:32
  You're sometimes here or you're at home taking your stuff.
• 15:35
  Like I'm, I've got my own workspace, which I I really
• 15:39
  like. I'm but yeah, it's just kind of
• 15:42
  like what needs to be done on any.
• 15:44
  Given. Day, yeah, I typically I'm
• 15:46
  brewing Tuesday, Thursday or Friday and then in between is
• 15:51
  packaging and sellering days. Yeah.
• 15:53
  I mean, it's I The one thing I've noticed for you is it's
• 15:57
  you're always doing something. I, I try to be busy, some sort
• 16:02
  of cleaning, always something like today.
• 16:04
  Like for example, like this week with the holidays, our brewing
• 16:06
  schedule got kind of wonky, so we couldn't get our grain in.
• 16:10
  And so I brewed yesterday and today and tomorrow to get
• 16:14
  prepped for the holidays. I've been bringing up cakes up
• 16:16
  the ramp. I've been tidying up.
• 16:18
  That's all I did all day. But it needs to be done and it's
• 16:21
  a good time to do it. I'm a glorified janitor.
• 16:26
  We've heard that we, yeah, we, we've actually heard that from
• 16:29
  other Brewers. How much, how much of the day
• 16:32
  takes up just cleaning and, and things like that.
• 16:34
  And, you know, it's, it's, it's kind of the same stories that
• 16:37
  you're talking about. It's always interesting to hear
• 16:39
  from others though. Yeah.
• 16:40
  Yeah. I don't, I don't mind it.
• 16:42
  I you know I popping podcasts and clean away.
• 16:45
  Yeah, yeah, it's it's kind of have you caught?
• 16:48
  I'm sorry, have you caught all 77 of our episodes?
• 16:52
  She's not awesome, you guys. Today I I was yes.
• 16:56
  Work. I could, but yeah, this is kind
• 17:00
  of funny. Like one of the first weeks that
• 17:02
  we were open, actually. Brian invited me down to brew.
• 17:05
  Oh, that's neat. And I came in at like 5:30 AM up
• 17:09
  from grain and watched things boil.
• 17:13
  He was like, all right, we're gonna do this and we're gonna
• 17:15
  wait. I'm like.
• 17:16
  Yeah, you do this, OK. Wait, cool.
• 17:18
  Anyway, cool. And then all of a sudden it's
• 17:20
  like, all right, we gotta grain out.
• 17:21
  I'm like, oh, OK, cool, cool. And he's like, all right, you
• 17:24
  need to clean this. And I'm like, oh, OK, cool.
• 17:26
  And by the end of it, I'm dripping sweat.
• 17:28
  It was so sweaty it. Was like, I think we were
• 17:30
  getting ready in August to open up.
• 17:32
  Yeah. And I just remember dripping
• 17:34
  sweat. And I'm like, no, appreciate
• 17:36
  you. And I appreciate you inviting me
• 17:38
  into this space, but I don't think this is for me.
• 17:40
  Dog AC like this this. This is a lot.
• 17:48
  So like, yeah, I commend you for sticking in there and just doing
• 17:52
  what you do. I have.
• 17:53
  I'm my own personal fan. I'm just like holding it.
• 17:56
  Yeah, it's like I'm taking inventory or something in the
• 17:59
  cooler and we just. In there because.
• 18:01
  We had some time in here. Anik, could you have imagined
• 18:04
  yourself like 10-15 years ago doing what you're doing now?
• 18:09
  Was it always a goal? No, I, I never thought I would
• 18:12
  have ended up in the industry like I back when I started
• 18:16
  drinking beer, I was just a groupie, you know, I just.
• 18:18
  Go to. Craft craze and like it.
• 18:21
  Hang out and try different styles of beer.
• 18:25
  Get the you know. You don't love Ipas?
• 18:28
  No, I don't love Ipas. No, still don't.
• 18:30
  And I, I don't know. I just kind of honestly fell
• 18:33
  into it and I needed something mentally stimulating.
• 18:38
  That's why I think when I did bartending was really good for
• 18:41
  me that that point, like I needed the interaction.
• 18:44
  I needed to gain my confidence because I was like what early,
• 18:49
  like I was in my mid 20s, yes. And that was just a really good
• 18:52
  time for me. But then once I got done with
• 18:54
  bartending, I'm like, OK, I'm done with people.
• 18:56
  I'm done. I missed that lab site.
• 18:59
  I missed that science that here's an SOP.
• 19:02
  It's very kind of by the book. I missed that kind of structure.
• 19:06
  So to have, I don't know, I just never, yeah, I guess I never
• 19:10
  really thought I would have me back then being a groupie.
• 19:13
  I'm like, oh man. Now she, she's in the industry
• 19:16
  as an Asian woman. Now she's had Brewer and I look
• 19:19
  at all the groupies they used to hang out with.
• 19:20
  I'm like. Look at me now.
• 19:24
  That's awesome though. When the recipes or the new
• 19:26
  beers that you guys come up with, how is that?
• 19:29
  How is how does that happen? Is there a committee?
• 19:32
  You just say, hey, we're going to make this today?
• 19:33
  I've come up with this recipe. Yeah.
• 19:35
  Well, a lot of it really when I was making the production
• 19:38
  schedule is like, what is what can you, what's the marketing
• 19:42
  team want? What does the sales team want?
• 19:43
  So it's a bunch of us sitting down and figuring out what's
• 19:48
  coming out when we want it to come out.
• 19:51
  And then once they tell me that they want some sort of new IPA
• 19:55
  at this time or a new. Christmas beer.
• 19:58
  Yeah, Christmas beer. Then.
• 20:00
  And then that's where I get to be creative.
• 20:01
  Is that OK? You want a Christmas beer?
• 20:03
  OK, What can I make? What do I want to make?
• 20:06
  And then that's where I can experiment.
• 20:08
  Yeah. So.
• 20:09
  I think we loosely set up that schedule and then we
• 20:13
  purposefully left spaces there to like let you spread.
• 20:17
  Yeah, to fill it. And yeah, there's like, because
• 20:21
  even still like especially in the industry right now, like I
• 20:24
  want to make all the fun stuff, but the fun stuff is not going
• 20:26
  to sell. You have the way it's.
• 20:28
  Right. Yeah.
• 20:28
  So I think, I mean that's, that's really the biggest
• 20:31
  balance right now. It's it's coming out with new
• 20:33
  innovative things while also recognizing what's actually
• 20:38
  happening in the market and making sure that we're
• 20:40
  fulfilling customer needs. Yeah, and I think that's a
• 20:42
  really good point. You know, you guys, like I said
• 20:45
  earlier, you guys have been open for five years.
• 20:48
  And are you just amazed at all the changes that have happened
• 20:52
  in the craft beer market in just five years?
• 20:54
  It's, you know, honestly, I was, I was talking to her sales got
• 20:58
  this morning and I was like, man, these last five years have
• 21:01
  felt like 100 years. Yeah.
• 21:03
  I mean, just, yeah, just seeing the amount of changes.
• 21:05
  I mean, like even 5-6 years ago, barrel aged huge, right?
• 21:11
  Like everybody like that wasn't the pinnacle.
• 21:13
  That was the Creme de la Creme. How is your barrel aging
• 21:16
  program? Fast forward to now, it's like,
• 21:19
  well, you know, barrel aging's fine.
• 21:21
  Like it's still a big part of like what the industry is.
• 21:25
  But now it's like, well, what is your pilsner taste like?
• 21:28
  What is your logger taste like? You know what, what can you send
• 21:31
  out to the masses that everybody enjoys?
• 21:33
  Because yeah, I think everybody's palates have just
• 21:36
  gotten tired, which is fine. But I, I think we're seeing this
• 21:42
  like push back to basics, right? And I think people are really
• 21:45
  enjoying the simple, very modest styles because it kind of
• 21:51
  reminds them of simple times. It's also a way to tell a good
• 21:55
  brewery if you can make a good pills or a good logger.
• 21:59
  Yeah. I always say, like, you can hide
• 22:02
  stuff in barrel aging or you're like really heavy stouts.
• 22:05
  You can hide stuff in there that's not yeah.
• 22:08
  Yeah. But loggering, loggering, it'll
• 22:11
  find, you'll find it that there's something in there.
• 22:13
  You'll find it because you cannot cover that up.
• 22:15
  So if someone can go if you can. I was kind of not always, but
• 22:17
  can gauge a brewery by if you got a good pills or good logger.
• 22:20
  I'm going to assume the rest should be pretty good, you know?
• 22:22
  Yeah. I mean, when you guys were here,
• 22:24
  I think we touched on it a little bit.
• 22:26
  I used to work in a pizza place. Whenever we shout out Dewey's,
• 22:29
  by the way, whenever, whenever we go to, whenever I go to a
• 22:34
  pizza shop, I generally just choose a pepperoni pizza
• 22:37
  because. And that tells me the quality of
• 22:39
  ingredients that you have. And it tells me whether or not,
• 22:42
  like, if you can do the basics, you can probably do the more
• 22:46
  experimental things pretty well. Yeah.
• 22:50
  Yeah, you should be able to because you're adding more
• 22:52
  ingredients in both of those cases, whether it's beer or
• 22:54
  pizza. Yeah, yeah.
• 22:56
  Because you can, as you were saying, like as you would start
• 22:59
  to get a little bit more complexity.
• 23:01
  You can hide things like you can if there's an off flavor you can
• 23:06
  adjust. I mean with a logger or pilsner,
• 23:09
  you put it down. It is what it is.
• 23:12
  That's right. Especially with something that's
• 23:14
  hoppy, right? And I pay, so just dump some
• 23:16
  more hops in it. Exactly.
• 23:18
  Yeah, you. Can yeah, you can hide it with
• 23:19
  an IPA too. Yeah.
• 23:21
  Do you do some seasonal beers and is that some of the fun
• 23:23
  stuff you're talking about like you could do or do you kind of,
• 23:25
  is that part of your plan anyways, working on some
• 23:28
  seasonal stuff in your schedule? I think it's, yeah, it's that's
• 23:31
  like our fun time, but it's also like we know seasonal wise, like
• 23:35
  we're for sure hopefully always going to be in Deweys like
• 23:37
  they're, they're a staple customer of us.
• 23:40
  And so we know that what, 4 times, 2-3 times, twice a year,
• 23:45
  twice a year, yeah, we switch over so that we'll have like for
• 23:49
  them for their summer. I made, I designed a, a blue
• 23:54
  moon to say like a citrus. Yes.
• 23:57
  And I was like, I think that's blue moonish.
• 23:59
  So again, people are familiar, so they're not afraid.
• 24:02
  And so that was fun because we hadn't done anything like that.
• 24:04
  And then Brian had a recipe for it, but we got to tweak it.
• 24:07
  So that's always fun to see, to see his creative side where he
• 24:11
  had something that he wanted to do and then I can help him tweak
• 24:14
  it. Yeah.
• 24:15
  But even to that, like the last few years, Steve Orskop, I don't
• 24:19
  know if you guys have been to higher gravity up here.
• 24:21
  It's one of the local bottle shops.
• 24:23
  Have not. Fantastic place, you should
• 24:26
  check them out next time you come up.
• 24:27
  But they do a beer advent boxed every year and they pick 5
• 24:32
  breweries from that are local to do specialized beers.
• 24:35
  So we've we've done a special beer for their beer advent box
• 24:39
  the last two years. Three years.
• 24:41
  Two or three years. And last year we actually did a
• 24:46
  like a holiday spiced brown ale called Feffernus, which is based
• 24:51
  off of the German cookie your grandma would give you when you
• 24:55
  were younger. Yeah, a lot of fun to.
• 24:58
  I was throwing a bunch of just whole spices, brown spices into
• 25:03
  like our brown ale and I was like.
• 25:05
  Try it, try it. It was quite the week.
• 25:08
  It was it was quite the ad hurrying up the and we had the
• 25:11
  brew it in October. I just I actually missed the
• 25:13
  brew because I was I was yeah, it was my anniversary.
• 25:16
  So I missed the brew brew. But yeah, is it scary adding
• 25:21
  spices like that? Because, and maybe that's the
• 25:23
  point of trying it as you go along, because you don't want to
• 25:27
  have too much, right? A little bit probably goes a
• 25:28
  long way in some cases on that spice part.
• 25:31
  For sure, yeah. It's just, yeah.
• 25:33
  Like, So what I did is that I found a Feffer news recipe, like
• 25:38
  a cookie recipe that had all the ingredients that I could
• 25:41
  actually buy that we could put in beer.
• 25:43
  And then I literally did the monster math, which is just
• 25:46
  proportions because that's the only math I want to fuss with.
• 25:48
  And basically it's like, OK, if I had a sample of this much
• 25:52
  beer, I just, like, reduced everything and kind of just
• 25:56
  whipped it up in a glass and prayed that it would.
• 25:59
  And so we we took out there's like Anus and the really, really
• 26:02
  strong ones. We were Cardamom.
• 26:04
  Yeah, we adjusted some. I think one of them we just took
• 26:07
  out because you don't want to be too overpowering.
• 26:10
  But we've also gotten criticized in the past that our flavors
• 26:14
  haven't been strong enough. So I wanted to make sure that
• 26:16
  I'm like, well, you're going to tell me at least you can smell
• 26:19
  it and you can taste it. Right.
• 26:21
  We're gonna call to smell it. And so that's.
• 26:23
  So it was just a careful balance of like, OK, I want people to
• 26:26
  actually tell like, this is a cookie.
• 26:27
  Yeah. A crispy.
• 26:28
  Yeah, so fun fact everyone, we do listen and we do look at.
• 26:31
  Yes, hey, here you go. With two questions pop up, but
• 26:37
  we're going to come back to that untapped thing because we like
• 26:39
  to bring that thing up and. Yeah.
• 26:41
  Well, before I want to ask, when you're making those things, can
• 26:44
  you do small batch stuff too? And maybe it's not in that,
• 26:47
  maybe that's not a good example, but can you do small batch stuff
• 26:50
  in the brewery where maybe just it's just tap room specific or
• 26:53
  again that playful side? We can like, so we got 210
• 26:58
  barrel tanks that we can do the smallest amount or five barrel
• 27:01
  batches that we can experiment with.
• 27:03
  But even still as a 5 barrel batch of still 10 full kegs.
• 27:06
  So we still have to be kind of careful price wise and time
• 27:11
  wise, just that can we afford to be really, really weird?
• 27:15
  And we still have 10 kegs. So I think at some point,
• 27:18
  hopefully soon in the future that when we have that freedom,
• 27:21
  whether it's financially or whatnot that we can like, OK, we
• 27:25
  can do something really funky. And if we have to pour, we just
• 27:27
  pour down the drain. Or call it something else in the
• 27:32
  tap room. I've come across that at places
• 27:33
  before too. Hey, yesterday it was this.
• 27:35
  It's not selling. We'll just call it something
• 27:37
  else now. Exactly.
• 27:38
  Yeah. And that's the thing too.
• 27:39
  Like our, our brewery's name is esoteric, right?
• 27:42
  And we want to be able to like really lean into that.
• 27:45
  And I mean, like Anita said, we, we recently just got to 5 barrel
• 27:51
  unit tanks and hopefully that will allow us to be a little bit
• 27:54
  more experimental and a little bit more like on the cutting
• 27:56
  edge. I think for us at least, what
• 27:58
  helps is like you have some bigger events throughout the
• 28:01
  year where we can push those one offs where it's OK.
• 28:03
  Like guys, it's our anniversary. We tried something crazy like
• 28:07
  here it is. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:09
  It's definitely helped for sure. We don't have to sit on.
• 28:12
  We can sit on 10 KGS versus like 20 KS.
• 28:14
  Yeah, it's definitely helped having those smaller tanks for
• 28:16
  sure. It's definitely, it's a balance.
• 28:19
  Hey, we'll get back to the show in a minute.
• 28:20
  But you know what, Scott? There is something we want to
• 28:23
  talk about today and that is our proud sponsor, Nashville Brew
• 28:27
  Pass. You and I have actually used
• 28:29
  this a couple of times. We have, but what is Nashville
• 28:32
  Brew Pass? You know what it is?
• 28:34
  What is it? Venture Journal guide, like a
• 28:36
  travel guide that comes in the form of a booklet.
• 28:39
  And I've got one right here. I think you have one too.
• 28:42
  I've got mine right. Now you've got yours too.
• 28:44
  Isn't that beautiful? Yes.
• 28:46
  We've both got 1 and it shows you where all the best craft
• 28:50
  beer spots are in Nashville. There's even AQR code in the
• 28:54
  booklet right here at the front shows you a map of all the
• 28:58
  breweries that are listed in this brew pass.
• 29:00
  That's very helpful. So what you do, you take this
• 29:03
  with you when you go to a brewery and you bring your pass
• 29:05
  in and you get it stamped and make sure you bring it in.
• 29:08
  I forget a couple of times. That's right, you got to take it
• 29:11
  with you. You got to take it with you.
• 29:14
  Don't forget your booklet exactly and what it does.
• 29:17
  It lets you track your brewery visits.
• 29:18
  It's got sections in here. You can put notes, ratings of
• 29:21
  the place, your favorite brews, and actually each page you can
• 29:25
  see right here has a menu of what that place has at their
• 29:30
  location. Yeah, you know, aside from that,
• 29:33
  they've also got some perks at several places.
• 29:35
  Well, they do have perks, you are correct Sir.
• 29:38
  For example, you can get half off your first pint at the
• 29:41
  picnic tap and also tenfold we have been the tenfold we have
• 29:45
  gotten our stamp there. So that was pretty awesome.
• 29:49
  Also buy one Get one free at Homegrown and one of our
• 29:53
  favorite breweries, Black Abbey at Monday Night Brewing.
• 29:56
  You can buy one and get a token for a free pint.
• 30:00
  How about get? Out of here, get out.
• 30:02
  Yeah, yeah. And you know what?
• 30:04
  It's not just breweries. At Natural Barrel Company, you
• 30:08
  get a fourth pour free on a three pour whiskey flight.
• 30:13
  Hey, if you're not in the craft beer, or maybe you are, maybe
• 30:16
  you also want to get yourself a whiskey flight.
• 30:18
  All you have to do is show your natural brew pass and get it
• 30:22
  stamped. And they're adding more perks
• 30:25
  regularly there. Well, what other places do they
• 30:27
  have in the book? Man there are many other places.
• 30:30
  Blackstone brewing, Marble fox, honey tree meadery, there's
• 30:35
  Fayette, La Forest where I got mine just recently, Tennessee
• 30:39
  Brew Works, and also a lot of other favorites.
• 30:42
  In addition, Nashville Brew Pass also has Corsair and Nelson's
• 30:46
  Greenbrier, which are distilleries, and I've also
• 30:48
  heard they may have some other events coming up soon.
• 30:51
  I was just at Corsair and Nelson Greenbrier too recently, but
• 30:55
  you're right, they do have some more events coming.
• 30:57
  We went to one. We've talked about it before on
• 30:59
  our podcast. We went to one at Tenfold.
• 31:01
  We got a free flight just by registering with Nashville Brew
• 31:04
  Pass was awesome. We did.
• 31:06
  They had another one on July 2nd at Bar Jackalope.
• 31:09
  We missed it because we were recording that night.
• 31:11
  I don't know who records a podcast when they're giving away
• 31:14
  free beer. But it.
• 31:16
  Has that? I don't know, but it happened.
• 31:18
  But they've also got another one coming in August at Black Abbey
• 31:21
  Brewing Company. More details on that one to
• 31:23
  come. If you have a brew, pass as
• 31:25
  you're automatically invited to all their free beer events
• 31:28
  without even having to sign up. Just bring your passport.
• 31:31
  That's pretty cool. It's like you're AVIP, you just.
• 31:34
  Walk in correct? OK, well you sold me.
• 31:37
  How do I get one? Go to their website
• 31:39
  itsnashvillebrewpass.com. You can also go to their
• 31:42
  Instagram page. Look under the shop button.
• 31:45
  They're only $30 each with free shipping for a limited time,
• 31:49
  Sir. Follow them on Instagram and on
• 31:52
  Facebook at Nashville Brew Pass for all of their latest news and
• 31:55
  events. Hey man, let's do something fun.
• 31:59
  Let's do something fun, but what is that that we're going to do?
• 32:02
  Let's give away 2 Nashville Brew passes for free.
• 32:06
  Really. For free now?
• 32:07
  Are we allowed to do something like that?
• 32:10
  I don't know, man, but we're going to do it anyway.
• 32:12
  Well, you know what they say, let's do it then.
• 32:14
  Forgiveness and not permission. You got it exactly.
• 32:17
  Let's give these away to two separate listeners.
• 32:20
  We're not going to post this on social media.
• 32:22
  So you have to listen to this podcast to win the National Brew
• 32:25
  Passes. Well that is fantastic,
• 32:27
  something to reward our listeners with.
• 32:29
  Yep. So the first two people that
• 32:32
  send us a direct message through Instagram, not a comment, not
• 32:35
  Facebook. After hearing this podcast with
• 32:38
  the phrase I love Nashville beer, we'll each get sent a free
• 32:42
  passport. Fantastic.
• 32:43
  Well, thank you, Nashville Brewpass.
• 32:46
  Remember to go online at nashvillebrewpass.com.
• 32:50
  Now back to the show. Now, back to the show.
• 32:52
  Well, Scott mentioned the seasonal beers and we know that
• 32:55
  there is a season that's coming up soon.
• 32:57
  It's called the season of Oktoberfest.
• 32:59
  Yeah. Is that we?
• 33:01
  Dropped a variety 12 pack which included four German style
• 33:05
  beers. So we had an Oktoberfest.
• 33:07
  We had a pills, we had a Kolsch and we had a Dunkle.
• 33:11
  And then it actually Oktoberfest season coincides pretty nicely
• 33:15
  with our five year anniversary. So we'll be looking to do was it
• 33:21
  4, three different types of German style beers, three or
• 33:24
  four more styles. So we're going to be dabbling in
• 33:27
  some, you know, Berliner Vice, maybe, you know, something
• 33:31
  Bakish, I don't know. Maybe something, I don't know,
• 33:34
  Marzen, I don't know, maybe So, yeah, we, I mean, especially
• 33:38
  being in Cincinnati with such a like a huge German contingent,
• 33:42
  like it is something that we really push for because, you
• 33:45
  know, we're really proud of our heritage is here in Cincinnati.
• 33:48
  So we couldn't not try. So, well, and I was going to say
• 33:52
  that, you know, I've been to the Oktoberfest Cincinnati downtown
• 33:55
  a few years ago. I was there and I hadn't been
• 33:57
  for a while, but I definitely need to get back.
• 34:00
  So yeah, expand on that a little bit, because I would imagine
• 34:03
  that almost every brewery has to have some something Oktoberfest
• 34:08
  related in a city like Cincinnati, just knowing what
• 34:11
  the demand is. Yeah, not just during
• 34:14
  Oktoberfest season, but being from Cincinnati, you know, Bach
• 34:17
  Fest is a huge season. Again, it's kind of like rooting
• 34:19
  yourself in the roots that you have or the heritage that are
• 34:23
  that are in the city. So German beers are definitely,
• 34:26
  you know, pinnacle here. And you have a lot of places, a
• 34:30
  lot of breweries around the city that do damn good in style.
• 34:33
  Beers like West Side comes to mind.
• 34:34
  Third Eye does some great stuff. Frank does some great stuff.
• 34:37
  You know, we want to be able to be on that level.
• 34:42
  We want to be mentioned with those guys when German beers
• 34:45
  come up in conversation in this communities.
• 34:50
  Yeah, it's sorry, sorry. You're fine.
• 34:54
  All good. Sorry, I was running the music
• 34:57
  in our event space and I needed to show off.
• 34:59
  Take your time. Take your time.
• 35:01
  Why? But yeah, yeah, German styles in
• 35:05
  this city are just so vastly important because we know that's
• 35:08
  what people are looking for, especially really from, I'd say
• 35:11
  mid-july through October. Probably.
• 35:14
  I mean, you'll have Fox years in February, March, and then those
• 35:18
  will go and then you'll have your summer and then basically,
• 35:21
  yeah, it's. Oktoberfest.
• 35:22
  Basically, it's Oktoberfest. And that's the craziest part,
• 35:24
  right? You know, for the first few
• 35:26
  years we would tell ourselves we're not going to be those
• 35:29
  guys. We're not going to be those guys
• 35:31
  that drop in the middle of July. And then what was it 2 years
• 35:35
  ago? We were sitting there and like,
• 35:37
  damn, we might have to be those guys being early to bums.
• 35:40
  Not bad. So yeah, it it's, it's, it's
• 35:44
  definitely we started with our fest beer and now we're going to
• 35:48
  dabble with the Marzen this year.
• 35:50
  So we're. Excited.
• 35:50
  We obviously live in a different time than when Marzens were
• 35:54
  created originally and they used to what they'd had to do them in
• 35:56
  March and they'd store them in the Cellars or whatever all
• 35:59
  summer and that. When do you guys have to start
• 36:01
  putting or start brewing things for the Oktoberfest season?
• 36:06
  I've already brewed every like everything's already brewed in
• 36:08
  tanks. Yeah, OK.
• 36:10
  Yeah, yeah. Way ahead of the game.
• 36:14
  Fest is done. That's in the tank in the next
• 36:18
  the next batch of Oktoberfest and Dunkle's already planned for
• 36:21
  next week. Yeah, really.
• 36:23
  Hurry, you're not. Kidding.
• 36:24
  When you said July? Yeah.
• 36:26
  Yeah. No, it's, I don't know if we'll
• 36:27
  necessarily release it, but we have it.
• 36:29
  Yeah, it's all be all be ready. Because in order to get the
• 36:33
  mixed toll pack stumbled on time when we want to drop it, we have
• 36:37
  to have everything done by Surrender brands.
• 36:40
  Like everything has to be done so he can take it to our
• 36:42
  packaging guy, get everything boxed up and look pretty.
• 36:45
  And like, that's the biggest thing when you're dealing the 12
• 36:48
  packs of the, the first time we did last year, we deal with
• 36:51
  that. It's you have to make sure
• 36:53
  everything's done right around the same time because you know,
• 36:56
  as you guys know, beer has a shelf life and you want to make
• 37:00
  sure when you put those those beers into the 12 pack, they
• 37:04
  have longevity, right? And create longevity through
• 37:07
  completing them all at the same time.
• 37:10
  Just makes it a little. Bit yeah, we've laughed.
• 37:11
  We've laughed about Oktoberfest season on past episodes, you
• 37:15
  know, like last year, because we're going, OK, when when are
• 37:19
  we going to see the first Oktoberfest beer sitting out on
• 37:21
  the shelves? And it's like, you know, right
• 37:24
  there at the end of August, you know, you go into stores and you
• 37:28
  might see maybe some Sierra Nevada or of course Sam Adams
• 37:33
  that are popping up and you go, it seems like those those bigger
• 37:37
  breweries are really putting in the more pressure and demands
• 37:40
  for all the other breweries. I believe by the way, they
• 37:43
  started this trend. Yeah.
• 37:44
  And we, you know, you kind of you want to make sure that
• 37:48
  you're you're falling in that realm, right?
• 37:50
  You want to make sure the consumer like can get their
• 37:53
  hands on them at the appropriate time because if you're a little
• 37:57
  too early, people kind of give you the side eye.
• 37:59
  And if you're too a little too late, you know, you're kind of
• 38:03
  scrambling to even get a portion of what you should.
• 38:08
  There's definitely a sweet golden era or area that I think
• 38:15
  changes every year. It does.
• 38:17
  It feels, Yeah. Consumers laugh.
• 38:21
  I was like, well, it's your kind of your guys's fault.
• 38:26
  It totally is. If nobody bought it in July and
• 38:28
  they waited till September, it wouldn't come out till
• 38:30
  September. Right.
• 38:32
  It's, it's funny, I saw one of our local beer guys, Zach Holly,
• 38:37
  posted a picture last night of him drinking a pumpkin ale and
• 38:39
  I'm like, dude, who's? The pumpkin ale out.
• 38:41
  Yeah. And we know Zach.
• 38:44
  Yeah, we know, Zach. That's all that too.
• 38:47
  Yeah. What's?
• 38:48
  It. Where is you?
• 38:50
  Guys, urban or a for the pumpkin beer?
• 38:52
  What man you know? Yeah, it's crazy.
• 38:56
  So you guys can't dictate how long, pumpkin?
• 38:58
  Nails. You guys, you're not doing
• 39:00
  pumpkin nails. No pumpkin nails for.
• 39:02
  Us. That's not one of the fun things
• 39:04
  you wanted to, no. No.
• 39:06
  Jane They're challenging, that's for sure.
• 39:09
  The duration of Oktoberfest for your beer that that really just
• 39:12
  dictates on like you, you brew it X amount, right?
• 39:14
  And then when it's gone, it's gone kind of thing.
• 39:17
  Yeah, you're not making any more.
• 39:18
  And that's we've got so much. We got a finite amount and
• 39:21
  that's it, yeah. I I that's as a small business,
• 39:24
  as a small brewery, like we don't necessarily have the
• 39:27
  luxury of, you know, brewing a bachelor and it not selling and
• 39:30
  us have to dump it. Yeah, because.
• 39:32
  That's goodness. About a couple, Yeah, if we
• 39:35
  brewed it a little too late seasonally, and it's amazing
• 39:38
  like that Bureau of sell, sell, sell.
• 39:40
  And then right when the season changes, it stops selling.
• 39:42
  It's it's almost 100% cut off. It is the weirdest thing you
• 39:46
  will ever see. Yeah, it's it's very fascinating
• 39:48
  to watch. So yeah, once we once the sit
• 39:51
  like Oktoberfest, once those are gone, they're gone.
• 39:53
  I still. Wanted to touch?
• 39:55
  Go ahead. So Rick, we just the last just
• 39:57
  to touch on the pumpkin thing real quick.
• 39:58
  I still there's a place I go to still has schlaflees.
• 40:01
  Pumpkin on the show from last year, and I love Schlafly, but I
• 40:04
  think it's to your point. Maybe they made too much or
• 40:06
  somebody bought too much. The season ended and it sits
• 40:09
  there now and nobody wants when the season comes around, you
• 40:12
  can't get enough of it. Yeah, yeah.
• 40:14
  And then, yeah, once you start seeing like those Great Lakes
• 40:17
  Christmas animals, you're like, yeah.
• 40:21
  Yeah, yeah. We know what a big deal that is
• 40:28
  for them up there too. Yeah.
• 40:31
  Hey, want to talk about some beer that's a big deal for you
• 40:35
  guys? Well, all of it is, of course,
• 40:36
  but I know you guys have won, you know, beer in the, you know,
• 40:41
  like the US Beer Open Championship.
• 40:43
  You know, I talked about Illuminati earlier and you guys
• 40:46
  won an award for that silver medal back in 2024.
• 40:50
  But you've also won over the years for, like, your Oracle.
• 40:53
  I mean, can you talk about some of those victories and what
• 40:56
  that's really meant for your brewery?
• 40:58
  What does it mean to you personally?
• 41:00
  I don't, it's, I'm gonna, I want to be honest with those awards.
• 41:05
  I wasn't here at the time that we won those.
• 41:07
  I had a brief and I call it, I joke.
• 41:10
  It was my sabbatical that I left Esoteric for a period of time.
• 41:14
  And I think I'm very happy we won those.
• 41:16
  Obviously the recognition, me personally, I feel like I didn't
• 41:20
  win them because I wasn't here. The one that I will say that I'm
• 41:24
  proud of is the Bach Fest one. I won gold for our very first
• 41:28
  Bach that we've ever made and we placed first place.
• 41:31
  Yeah, We placed first place in Bach Fest this year.
• 41:33
  We didn't win best in show. No, I went to BC's Bottle Lodge
• 41:37
  or BC's Brewing. Now, Sorry, Excuse me.
• 41:39
  Great friends. Yeah.
• 41:41
  But yeah, in terms of, like winning awards, we really, we
• 41:45
  love the recognition. We'd love the fact that people
• 41:48
  are picking up our cans and drinking our beer.
• 41:50
  But that's one of our big core values is humble craftsmanship.
• 41:54
  Mm hmm. And the awards are great, but
• 41:57
  that's not why we do it. We do it because, you know, we
• 42:00
  want people to sit down with a six pack of our beer and on any
• 42:04
  given night on like the way we think about it is we want people
• 42:08
  to sit down and have a great family dinner and remember that
• 42:11
  they were drinking Illuminati that night.
• 42:13
  The accolades are are just kind of a recognition of like, hey,
• 42:16
  like the craftsmanship is there and it's really good, but it's
• 42:19
  not something that we, I don't want to say we don't strive for
• 42:22
  it because we definitely do because we love the competition.
• 42:26
  Yeah, but it's not, it's not like a grindhouse, like it's not
• 42:30
  like like we have to, we have to place like we there's no
• 42:34
  pressure. Like there's obviously pressure
• 42:35
  because we want to win, but there's no, there's no
• 42:38
  consequences. I guess it's like it's like if
• 42:40
  we win it, we we know, we know we do.
• 42:42
  Well, this helps us prove to, I don't know the non believers.
• 42:47
  It's a validation. Yes, it's a validation thing,
• 42:49
  but. It still says a lot about who
• 42:51
  you guys are, you know, regardless.
• 42:53
  And as you said, you know, you want you want people to be
• 42:56
  sitting in their homes and, you know, drinking your beer and
• 42:59
  remembering the beer. And I'll tell you the other
• 43:01
  thing that we probably remember. I love all of the the names of
• 43:05
  the beer. And it's so different.
• 43:06
  I mean, who comes up with all of those?
• 43:09
  It's kind of a team effort right now.
• 43:11
  Originally we had a, a massive spreadsheet of, of names.
• 43:14
  Yeah, Why my flowers? Some are like, I know Brian
• 43:19
  really draws a lot of like how he lives his life through like
• 43:24
  Buddhism and Hinduism. And we we kind of wanted the
• 43:27
  beers to represent something a little bit more like higher
• 43:31
  level. Our name is esoteric and we want
• 43:34
  to cut up to that building. But yeah, right now it's it's
• 43:37
  kind of like a group effort. We have a lean team that kind of
• 43:40
  sits out there, sits there. When something's coming out, we
• 43:42
  just kind of start throwing out names that kind of follow those
• 43:45
  sort of guidelines. And then we we we end up falling
• 43:48
  on one. And it's served us pretty well
• 43:51
  since inception. It's an exciting thing.
• 43:53
  But yeah, it's it's, it's a whole team effort.
• 43:56
  I'm just probably we can never have like dumb names.
• 43:58
  Yeah, we just kind of painted ourselves into a corner
• 44:02
  sometimes. I do wish we could.
• 44:04
  Do like like have a really obscure?
• 44:06
  Yeah, really dumb. Stupid.
• 44:08
  Kind of like that's. Why I named them myself?
• 44:11
  Yeah. But I would call them because
• 44:13
  you can't market it at that. There's some brand guidelines
• 44:16
  that I I, I will say I do try to keep the the team kind of like a
• 44:20
  little bit more on track. Yeah, because there are names
• 44:23
  that have been thrown out I'm. Like I don't know if we.
• 44:25
  Can just say that was. Yeah.
• 44:28
  It touches on too many. Other things, well, that's
• 44:31
  already taken. Yeah, no, that's it.
• 44:34
  To your point, like that's the hardest thing.
• 44:37
  Like whenever we come up with a name, you have to do that
• 44:39
  research. You have to go on to untapped,
• 44:41
  You have to go on to the government websites and figure
• 44:45
  out what names you can use. For example, we were eclipse,
• 44:50
  right? It was a clip or no, no Harmony.
• 44:51
  So Harmony was supposed to be a completely different name and
• 44:55
  we're already building out the can label for it.
• 44:58
  And the week I was finishing up, I look online or no, our sales
• 45:03
  manager texts us and he's like, so guys, reingeist.
• 45:06
  They have a new beer called Bloom.
• 45:08
  And I was like, jeez, really like.
• 45:13
  I was. I was really bummed about that
• 45:15
  one. So yeah, when it comes to
• 45:16
  naming, it is a little bit more complex because you do have to
• 45:19
  make sure that no one else has used it.
• 45:21
  Yeah, sure. That's fair, especially when
• 45:23
  you're a business, right? You don't be sued for anything
• 45:26
  or any of that kind. Of stuff.
• 45:27
  Change it later. Actually, like to your point,
• 45:30
  like when you build a brand and you realize that someone already
• 45:39
  has the rights to that name, you have to go and change everything
• 45:42
  and you have to pre train the consumer to to to see a whole
• 45:46
  new brand, even though it's something that you've had for an
• 45:50
  extended period of time. Yeah, that's a hard sell because
• 45:53
  some people just don't, don't see it or don't catch it or
• 45:55
  really don't, you know, don't realize it's the same thing and
• 45:57
  they just go on to something else.
• 45:59
  Yeah, 100%. We, we talked early at the
• 46:01
  beginning of this podcast about the last five years in brewing
• 46:04
  and how things have changed. One of the things that have
• 46:07
  changed really recently, maybe you guys have seen it before.
• 46:09
  This is non alcoholic stuff and that's a big trend right now.
• 46:13
  Is that something you guys have thought about or have done in
• 46:16
  brewing any of that or just to have some in the tap room for
• 46:19
  for people? Yeah.
• 46:20
  So we, we don't have any plans to do any NA stuff ourself.
• 46:25
  There's some cost that comes with that, the buying of a
• 46:29
  centrifugers and making sure that like we actually know how
• 46:32
  to do it. Yeah, it's just too.
• 46:34
  It's. It's very costly, but we do
• 46:36
  carry. We we did carry athletic for a
• 46:41
  little bit, but now we're carrying.
• 46:43
  I think it's best best day ever or best brew ever or best beer
• 46:47
  ever. I'm not sure I haven't.
• 46:49
  I saw we got it, but I haven't. Yeah, it's a newer, newer NA
• 46:52
  beer. This is no knock on Athletic,
• 46:56
  but this, this company does it a lot better.
• 47:01
  So no shade, sorry, Athletic, but yeah, it's just, it's, it's
• 47:07
  one of those things that in the tap room we have to have because
• 47:10
  more and more people are asking for those options, right?
• 47:13
  We want to be able to, when someone comes into our tap room,
• 47:16
  feel like first and foremost welcomed.
• 47:18
  That's one of our our big things.
• 47:20
  But you know, if you don't like beer or you don't drink beer,
• 47:24
  providing people with options that that they would be OK with
• 47:28
  and having an NA option is definitely.
• 47:32
  Yeah, there there seems to be alcohol at a trend, but I mean
• 47:35
  there's a lot of people just not drinking alcohol at all, whether
• 47:37
  it's beer till you hear a lot of mocktails.
• 47:40
  I guess out there there's something for the non alcoholic.
• 47:42
  They just don't want to drink alcohol.
• 47:44
  Yeah, I mean, you're going to have something for them also.
• 47:48
  I can't remember who it was. It was one of the government
• 47:50
  organizations put out a kind of like a breakdown in spend for
• 47:55
  generations in terms of like how much they're buying in liquor
• 47:58
  and alcohol. And like, of course, Gen.
• 48:01
  Xers, millennials, right around $26 billion last year bought
• 48:05
  alcohol. And then you get to the younger
• 48:07
  generation, like Gen. Z, and it was right around 4
• 48:10
  billion. And, you know, for a long time
• 48:12
  you would have those younger generations just kind of taking
• 48:16
  the reigns of the older generation and drinking beer,
• 48:20
  wine, liquor, so on and so forth.
• 48:21
  But Gen. Z is really kind of backed off
• 48:24
  of that. You know, it's, I don't want to
• 48:26
  say it's a tough thing to figure it out, but it is.
• 48:29
  And that's just the nature of the beast.
• 48:30
  And we're all trying to figure it out.
• 48:32
  It's also ironic because there are better things to drink in
• 48:36
  this world right now than there have ever been.
• 48:38
  Whether it's beer and I'm a bourbon guy, like, you know,
• 48:41
  like all these, there's so many options with so many things you
• 48:45
  can find to drink, and people are drinking less alcohol than
• 48:47
  ever. I just find it ironic.
• 48:49
  And it's like the cost, too. It's expensive to go out.
• 48:52
  And they, especially younger kids, I don't blame them.
• 48:55
  You go get a cocktail downtown. The prices are absorber.
• 48:58
  And, you know, it's yeah, so I don't blame them.
• 49:01
  Drinking's dumb sometimes. Anyway, what's my advice?
• 49:06
  I know a lot of Gen. Z ers like beeping or, you know,
• 49:09
  all the weed route, which is fine, have your advice, but I, I
• 49:13
  don't know. So just trying to ideally if
• 49:15
  somehow we could do, you know, 100 calorie seltzer, as much as
• 49:20
  I don't want to make it, we could do that.
• 49:22
  You know, we're trying to tweak, that's our fruit series that
• 49:25
  we're doing right now. We're trying to slowly tweak it.
• 49:27
  So it's like a seltzer. So when someone wants like a
• 49:29
  high noon, we can like hear that it's like 3%.
• 49:32
  It's really fruity. So that's what we're trying to,
• 49:35
  that's what we're working towards because I know a lot of
• 49:37
  people like that. Calorie conscious, yeah.
• 49:42
  To be honest guys, if people want to be more healthy, more
• 49:45
  powder to them. For sure we're.
• 49:46
  We're only on this earth for a very finite amount of time.
• 49:49
  We choose to drink beer, yes, because we really enjoy it.
• 49:53
  We do really love it. But you know, if, if, if beer
• 49:56
  isn't your thing, if you want to do an NA or if you want to do
• 50:00
  the THC drink, Yeah, go. For it, yeah, the THC drinks too
• 50:04
  yeah. I think we're slowly trying to
• 50:05
  work on at least getting being able to have them on site cuz I
• 50:10
  know a lot of breweries nowadays you can a lot of them are either
• 50:13
  making their own. I see a lot, there's probably
• 50:15
  like 3-4 breweries that have them yeah that actually have
• 50:18
  their own. And then a lot of other
• 50:21
  breweries have the option that if you want this brand, you can
• 50:25
  have it. I liked it for us to have it
• 50:27
  because that's even people like that option.
• 50:29
  Too well, and you see so much even expanding on that, the
• 50:32
  brewery experience where you know, I mean, you guys are doing
• 50:36
  it, A lot of other breweries are starting to do it up there, even
• 50:38
  around here in Nashville is serving more food options like
• 50:41
  even brunch. I mean, how much has that taken
• 50:44
  off for you guys as a brewery? It's been great having, having
• 50:48
  the addition of food really helps.
• 50:50
  Just, you know, it gives people that another option, right?
• 50:53
  And you know, when you guys were here, right?
• 50:55
  I, we were having a bunch of beers and by the end it's like
• 50:58
  we need food. So yeah, it keeps in there.
• 51:02
  It keeps you, keeps you for one more beer.
• 51:05
  But it, it's so vastly important because, you know, we want the
• 51:08
  brewery to be a one stop shop. We want the brewery to be like
• 51:11
  that place that people can come and and grab brunch or
• 51:14
  eventually grab dinner. It it, it just, it makes selling
• 51:19
  the beer a little bit easier, but it also gives the consumer
• 51:21
  kind of like that second outlet. Let's go back to your beers for
• 51:24
  a minute if we can. Yeah.
• 51:27
  How important is it to you guys to maintain like a balance of
• 51:30
  styles on your draft or on your taps?
• 51:34
  And is that, is that something? Is that something that's always
• 51:36
  conscious to you guys? Again, something for everyone.
• 51:38
  I try really hard to push like I always believe in having like
• 51:44
  one of every style, but like if, if I could, I would have like
• 51:48
  something dark, something like extra strong.
• 51:51
  Again, with the with the way things are like financially and
• 51:54
  whatnot, it's just like it's not always viable to have to sit on.
• 51:59
  There may be someone who wants a dark beer, but unfortunately,
• 52:01
  like we just, if it's going to sit, that's like inventory, just
• 52:04
  like that's money just sitting there.
• 52:06
  And so we try to make the board to have enough that it covers
• 52:12
  like if you want something fruity, light, multi, I think we
• 52:16
  cover most of it. I wish we lean had a little bit
• 52:18
  more spread, just a little bit more with the dark beers, but
• 52:21
  with it being again and then it's again, it's all seasonal.
• 52:24
  So come in a couple months, we'll have something that dark
• 52:28
  again. But I'd like to try to have a
• 52:29
  style for because in my mind that if someone is curious,
• 52:33
  there is something, there's a style that you will like.
• 52:38
  Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's.
• 52:39
  What? It's great.
• 52:41
  It's great. And I assume, do you guys do
• 52:43
  flights? I assume you do.
• 52:44
  Oh, yeah. OK, so Steve and I talk about
• 52:46
  this sometime when someone comes back to a table with a flight
• 52:49
  and, and it's got like a nice color variation, right?
• 52:52
  She's really good about this. It's I always love to see that.
• 52:55
  I'm terrible at it, but because I never think about it until
• 52:57
  like they show up. But that's always a nice thing.
• 53:00
  Hey, you got a stout or whatever and you got maybe a Dunkle and
• 53:03
  you got an IPA and maybe a log or something on it.
• 53:05
  But a nice color variation is always cool to see.
• 53:07
  Yeah. I mean, I think one of the big
• 53:09
  things that we did, so we had a, a Belgian like sort of Belgian
• 53:13
  beer day up here back in early March called Quintessence, where
• 53:16
  we basically brewed what, 7 different Belgian style beer.
• 53:20
  Yeah. Yeah, wow.
• 53:21
  We had eight on tap and we brewed 7.
• 53:24
  Yeah, so double, triple quad, the fruit of ale, a Belgian pale
• 53:31
  ale. The H rest of those.
• 53:33
  A yeah, Belgian like Festivus Ale.
• 53:37
  And then? Something else, One more thing,
• 53:40
  sorry, but to your point, Scott, what one of the things that I
• 53:44
  did from a marketing perspective is I built out what I called a
• 53:48
  Quintessence flight and $15.00. You get 5 of the Quintessence
• 53:54
  beers and it's curated for You don't have to think about it.
• 53:59
  Easy. Easy for the bartenders, as easy
• 54:01
  as. Easy as it could, as easy as
• 54:03
  flights could, yeah. For flights, yeah.
• 54:07
  To build out like those kind of like pre made flights just
• 54:10
  allows people to come in and not have to think about it.
• 54:14
  So we did that quintessence flight and it went so well that
• 54:17
  we're like, you know what, let's just do a spring flight of our
• 54:19
  spring seasonals. Let's do a core flight of our
• 54:22
  core beers. And then, you know, do a price
• 54:25
  variation where it's like the core beers is like $12.00.
• 54:27
  The seasonal flight is $15. Just to kind of give people that
• 54:31
  option who, you know, when you walk into a tap room and you see
• 54:34
  15 beers on tap, you're just like, oh, oh, shit, yeah.
• 54:38
  Where do I people? Don't know what half of those
• 54:40
  things are. Yeah.
• 54:41
  Exactly. And yeah, we did these curated
• 54:45
  flights and they went off great, you know, to kind of, sorry,
• 54:49
  bring it back in and talk about when you look at the board as a
• 54:51
  whole, like I think we try to provide a really good seasonal
• 54:55
  option right now with like our Citrus Wheat Ale or our Harmony,
• 55:00
  which is a mixed Berry Belgian fruit ale along with your cores.
• 55:04
  And then a dark and we're leaning a little heavier on the
• 55:07
  light section, but like the Maximum Locker, we just released
• 55:10
  today our Japanese Rice lager, which is the Walnut Hills lager.
• 55:15
  Yeah. And then the Hellas.
• 55:16
  But we want to make sure we're hitting the lights, the darks
• 55:20
  and then. Yeah, try our best that we can,
• 55:22
  that we can't. We are allowed to.
• 55:25
  Yeah, I mean, we have 16 taps, so try to fit it.
• 55:29
  You can't. You just try to figure it out
• 55:31
  the best you can, right In every aspect.
• 55:35
  Yeah. And that's the thing about being
• 55:37
  a small brewery, like we don't have these massive budgets where
• 55:40
  we can go out and do market research.
• 55:41
  It's it's kind of like the lead team understanding the data that
• 55:45
  we do have and then looking at each other and say, OK, this is
• 55:49
  what we know sells, this is what we know works.
• 55:51
  How do we build the schedule appropriately to fit those
• 55:54
  needs? If Steve and I had a tap room or
• 55:57
  some kind of bar up there that sold here on draft, we would be
• 56:00
  the ones like, hey, I'd be like, hey, esoteric.
• 56:02
  There's something. You can't send it here either,
• 56:07
  or we'll get rid of it. We could be your outlet for
• 56:09
  that. So you could.
• 56:10
  Definitely try it, that's for sure.
• 56:11
  Yeah. Just small.
• 56:14
  We'll swing by right when you guys start that, yeah.
• 56:16
  Come on, you guys are first in line.
• 56:18
  Take it for tap number you want. I'll be there.
• 56:20
  I'll bring the keg. I'll lift it up for you guys.
• 56:24
  It'll surprise us the way they hear something that's been back
• 56:27
  there for. A year.
• 56:27
  Yes. Here we go.
• 56:29
  More content for the podcast. We love it.
• 56:31
  You know, you go ahead. I have an aged hazy IPA that's
• 56:35
  been in the back of the court for three years.
• 56:37
  Put that on the board. Aged.
• 56:38
  It's an aged. Hazy.
• 56:39
  Yeah, it's. Way back in the day.
• 56:42
  People flocked to those. You mentioned the untapped app
• 56:46
  earlier and I actually had some pretty cool news at your brewery
• 56:50
  when I was up there. So I've been on we, we like to
• 56:53
  do fun things on the podcast and I've been on this, it's called
• 56:57
  the West Coast Summer IPA Tour. Ipas have always been a little
• 57:01
  mixed bag for me. Most of them I've liked the West
• 57:04
  Coast. I haven't really done as many.
• 57:06
  And then this past year or so I was like, all right, it's time.
• 57:09
  It's time to turn the corner a little bit and you just, you
• 57:12
  just got to dig in and you got to have more, right And so.
• 57:15
  Right now, by the way. Yeah.
• 57:18
  And So what I did was, you know, I, I was up there and we had
• 57:23
  been to Brink Brewing the day before we came to your All's
• 57:25
  Place. And I grew up in that area.
• 57:28
  So I've been to Brink many times too.
• 57:29
  And I had, I had one of their West Coast Ipas that turned out
• 57:34
  to be the highest I've ever rated on untapped, which is a,
• 57:38
  which was a 4.25 that I the highest I've rated a West Coast
• 57:42
  IPA. Come to your place the next day
• 57:45
  and I ended up getting the Bellevue Hill IPA and the Lotus
• 57:49
  and I rated the Bellevue Hill IPA a 4.25 on untapped, so
• 57:55
  that's my highest. Back.
• 57:57
  Yeah. So that's my, that's my highest
• 57:59
  rating so far of a West Coast high PA.
• 58:02
  And hopefully those those rating that that's the kind of rating
• 58:06
  that you want to see on untapped from somebody, at least I hope
• 58:08
  so. But the higher the, yeah.
• 58:09
  Yeah, definitely. Nick, you made a you made a West
• 58:12
  Coast IPA that Steve loved. Thank you.
• 58:15
  And Nick? That's on you.
• 58:17
  Yeah, that's on you. That's on you.
• 58:18
  I wish I'd liked this much as you do.
• 58:22
  That's OK. That's OK.
• 58:24
  It's all subjective, right? I make one, I don't drink them.
• 58:27
  Yeah. That's all right.
• 58:29
  Yeah, surprise. Have a good question.
• 58:30
  It's surprising that I don't drink our Ipas.
• 58:32
  I don't like our Ipas. Because our our generally like
• 58:35
  our highest rated. I know it's so funny.
• 58:38
  It's very because. Who are your Guinea pigs, then?
• 58:40
  Like, if you're tasting it like, I don't like it, but it's a good
• 58:43
  beer. Yeah, it's not a bad.
• 58:46
  It's not a bad. Really likes it, then it's good.
• 58:49
  Brian, Brian has. I can't get give Brown enough
• 58:51
  credit. Like his palate is out of this.
• 58:54
  World Well then too, it's one of those things that I want to
• 58:56
  learn is that slowly in my head brewing roles is that I want to
• 59:00
  still learn how to carve up a beer on my own properly.
• 59:03
  And he can do it without a machine.
• 59:06
  Like he just does it by mouthfeel and that is crazy to
• 59:08
  me. And so he has me like he'll try
• 59:10
  it at this point when we're carving up and he's like, what
• 59:12
  do you think? Yeah, then he'll tell me like
• 59:15
  who I'll have to describe to him what, you know, doesn't need
• 59:18
  more carve as A2 carve. But he can just like tell,
• 59:20
  especially our Corviers. He just knows.
• 59:22
  Like that's, that's crazy. Yeah, we have two, two
• 59:26
  scientists basically down in the brewhouse, which, you know, so
• 59:30
  I'm very much like a creative person and creative people are
• 59:32
  very messy and very like, oh, let's try this, let's try that.
• 59:36
  Bride and Aneek are just like no, it needs to be this way.
• 59:40
  Why? Like because and so I'm like,
• 59:43
  cool, let's do it that way. But yeah, I mean, you guys kill
• 59:48
  a. Dog, but I think with the
• 59:49
  precision and like, you know, I think because we have our Ipas
• 59:53
  just sit down so like we know what we're doing and we take
• 59:58
  it's just, I don't know, it's just like the process of it's
• 1:00:00
  like it's a very clean process. It's very no nonsense and it
• 1:00:03
  just comes out with very clean beer.
• 1:00:06
  That we have only made one mistake with one IPA.
• 1:00:09
  And. It's turned into like one of our
• 1:00:11
  highest rated beers on an entire year.
• 1:00:14
  What is that one? OK, that's.
• 1:00:16
  All right. So we actually we released it I
• 1:00:19
  think like the week after you guys were here.
• 1:00:21
  Which was kind of sad. Oh, it was in the tanks.
• 1:00:23
  Yeah, it was in the tank when you guys were here.
• 1:00:25
  So our original New England style like Hazy Odyssey was
• 1:00:32
  getting brewed last year and. I literally just brewed it.
• 1:00:37
  Yeah, literally put it in the tank and then he messed it up.
• 1:00:40
  Yeah. And then congruently we were
• 1:00:42
  brewing our double dry hop, double IPA Karma, which is our,
• 1:00:45
  which is big Imperial eight and a half 9%.
• 1:00:49
  Yeah. And he could just brewed Odyssey
• 1:00:51
  and somehow Brian switched the tanks in his mind and he dumped
• 1:00:57
  all of the Karma hops in the Odyssey.
• 1:01:00
  I'm so great. Wow.
• 1:01:02
  And we're all sitting there and we're like, well, do we dump?
• 1:01:05
  It Yeah, he's like, this is a completely new beer now.
• 1:01:08
  Yeah. And then we were sitting there
• 1:01:09
  and we were just like, it's hops in an IPA.
• 1:01:12
  It makes sense. Why would we dump this beer?
• 1:01:14
  So we let it run. Packaged it and.
• 1:01:15
  We packaged it and we called it Iliad, kind of like a playoff
• 1:01:20
  odyssey, and it just came out as this big like fruity, like
• 1:01:24
  citrus, stone fruit, hazy IPA that.
• 1:01:27
  It is so sting. Kind of blew us away, really.
• 1:01:32
  That's great. I smell it.
• 1:01:33
  It stinks so bad, so I don't. But it's become our most popular
• 1:01:37
  thing that we're going to. We did it on purpose this year.
• 1:01:41
  That's funny. Yeah.
• 1:01:43
  Yeah, I was looking. I've had Odyssey.
• 1:01:45
  I had Odyssey about two years ago in Cannes.
• 1:01:47
  Yeah, and. Pretty good, so.
• 1:01:49
  Kind of goes back to like the untapped thing where it's like
• 1:01:52
  when we put Iliad out, it's as the marketing guy, you kind of
• 1:01:56
  look at that as kind of like a frame of reference to, to see
• 1:01:59
  what people like and what they don't like.
• 1:02:01
  And as the check insurance started to roll in with Iliad,
• 1:02:05
  oh God, guys, this is going pretty well.
• 1:02:09
  So yeah, I mean we look at untapped.
• 1:02:11
  All the time. You do.
• 1:02:12
  I don't. I don't want my feelings hurt.
• 1:02:15
  So, so, so fast, so fast up. Then what is what's like?
• 1:02:19
  Obviously you said the higher the better, but is there a line
• 1:02:22
  of demarcation where if it's a certain rating, where is that
• 1:02:25
  line where you're starting to going?
• 1:02:27
  All right, we're getting this is this isn't something that I'm
• 1:02:30
  liking to see. Average rating was like if it's,
• 1:02:34
  it's kind of depend upon style, right?
• 1:02:36
  Like you won't get a lot of like really high.
• 1:02:39
  I'm marking. So I'm like a standard Mexican
• 1:02:41
  logger, even though ours just does pretty well.
• 1:02:44
  But I'd like to say like that, that 37 average, if it's below
• 1:02:49
  that, I kind of mark that as like, OK, hey, we either need to
• 1:02:53
  change something or B, just kill it, right?
• 1:02:56
  Like we, we've had some misses. I'm not going to lie.
• 1:02:59
  Like we did a a grapefruit rattle.
• 1:03:01
  Oh, the Rattler. Yeah, that was that, yeah.
• 1:03:04
  Beautiful canvas side, yeah. The canvas.
• 1:03:07
  But it just came out and it was like way too much rhyme and it
• 1:03:11
  was just so bitter. So that was a no go.
• 1:03:15
  And on on untapped. People, that's why.
• 1:03:18
  People recognize that, and you're like, all right, yeah, we
• 1:03:20
  won't do that again. Yeah.
• 1:03:21
  So we didn't. We might maybe fix it at some
• 1:03:23
  point. Yeah, But like 3-7 is kind of
• 1:03:26
  like the the standard that I'd like to keep.
• 1:03:28
  I, I, I would like it to be higher and hold ourselves to
• 1:03:31
  that higher standard. But 37 on untapped, if you're
• 1:03:35
  checking in if it has a 1000 plus check insurance and you're
• 1:03:38
  hitting 37, you're you're doing pretty.
• 1:03:40
  Well, well, you can tell Brian from me that I'm reading your
• 1:03:43
  your West Coast high PAS in the forest.
• 1:03:47
  You better be because they could see it.
• 1:03:49
  That's right. They could see it.
• 1:03:50
  Oh. I Steve, I know when you check
• 1:03:52
  stuff. In I'm I'm.
• 1:03:55
  Watching. Steve Nash, Sully, I think it's
• 1:03:57
  this is, this is, yeah, the. Hold up, it's out there.
• 1:04:01
  Here's another aspect and I've thought about this, but until
• 1:04:03
  you just said that I kind of hadn't put two and two together
• 1:04:06
  untapped. If you don't, if you're not like
• 1:04:07
  a supporter, right where you pay for the thing, 599 a month, you
• 1:04:11
  rate in 2/5, right? You rate every quarter point,
• 1:04:14
  right? 3.253 and a half, 3.75.
• 1:04:17
  I'm actually a supporter so I can rate in tents, which is
• 1:04:20
  probably minority. So that 3/5 to 3/7 is huge. 375
• 1:04:24
  to 4 is even a bigger gap if if you know what I mean.
• 1:04:28
  Like for me to rate a four, it's really upper echelon.
• 1:04:31
  So it'd be really easy someone to go down from A375 to A-35,
• 1:04:34
  then go up to a four. And why I say that is that
• 1:04:37
  overall average, right? A three, 8 is better than a
• 1:04:40
  three five. It's going to significantly bump
• 1:04:42
  your numbers. Yeah, yeah, 100 percent, 100%.
• 1:04:46
  And it's a lot of the a lot of the people, a lot of consumers
• 1:04:51
  that that do have that ability. The one thing I like about a lot
• 1:04:56
  of you know those people are they give detailed descriptions
• 1:05:02
  and notes of what they did and did not like.
• 1:05:04
  You know, there are a lot of people out there who will check
• 1:05:07
  in a beer and give it a low rating and then just say it's
• 1:05:11
  not a style I prefer. Yeah.
• 1:05:13
  You know, This is why, like what?
• 1:05:16
  I can imagine it being this true to style.
• 1:05:18
  And I'm like, well, you don't like the style, Just don't rate
• 1:05:21
  the beer. Yeah.
• 1:05:23
  Because, you know, at the end of the day, right, Like, this is a
• 1:05:26
  Nique and Brian's work going out and there are humans behind the
• 1:05:29
  numbers. Yep, and that's fine.
• 1:05:32
  I totally agree. Yeah, you guys take that to
• 1:05:35
  heart, but not just to heart, but take into consideration.
• 1:05:37
  All right. Yeah, it might be how you brew
• 1:05:39
  the next one. Exactly.
• 1:05:41
  Or don't brew it at all like F these guys.
• 1:05:45
  Well, end of the day, if you get those poor ratings and if you
• 1:05:48
  see it like where it's like, oh, this isn't my style, but I'm
• 1:05:51
  rating this Bureau anyway, it's just like, how would you like it
• 1:05:53
  if I came to your work and just started rating your work?
• 1:05:56
  So. Yeah.
• 1:05:57
  I would talk about that. So I'm going to give you a 325,
• 1:06:01
  yes. Your spelling sucks.
• 1:06:04
  Well, and I'll tell and I'll tell you I've got to the point
• 1:06:07
  that if I have a beer and I don't like it, I usually don't
• 1:06:12
  go below 3.50. I just say you know what, I'm
• 1:06:16
  not even going to check it in. You know, I may check it in.
• 1:06:18
  I'm not going to rate it because I may not like it if it's
• 1:06:21
  subjective, I'll tell you one. I got to ask you guys.
• 1:06:24
  I don't, I don't Maybe maybe you would brew beer like this and
• 1:06:27
  maybe you have one of the worst I've had and it was, it was
• 1:06:30
  given to me through a beer trade and I took 3 sips and I'm like,
• 1:06:33
  I can't ever do this one again. It was a spicy pickle beer.
• 1:06:37
  Would a spicy pickle beer ever end up on the esoteric menu?
• 1:06:41
  The. Pickle Urban has the pickle beer
• 1:06:44
  down to its yeah. Yeah, Urban artifact has kind of
• 1:06:47
  like cemented that since it added and they.
• 1:06:49
  Make a good pickle. I don't like pickle beer, but
• 1:06:51
  their pickle beer is famous. I wouldn't.
• 1:06:53
  Even no I've had that one. This one was from a different
• 1:06:55
  brewery and it was a spicy pickle beer and I took 3 sips
• 1:06:59
  and I'm like no never again. Any for me?
• 1:07:02
  I'll let Urban do. Yeah, we'll leave that to the
• 1:07:05
  experts. Yeah, you know about experts.
• 1:07:07
  No, I don't know, sounds weird. I don't.
• 1:07:10
  So maybe it'd be fun to do a variant like a dill pickle, like
• 1:07:14
  a dill variant of a beer. Like that's where more fun is
• 1:07:18
  that when the time allows, because it does take a lot of
• 1:07:22
  thinking with math and tasting, is that I can make a variance
• 1:07:27
  just take a keg of one of our pre made beers and make a
• 1:07:31
  flavor. So recently I did for Element
• 1:07:33
  Adri up here is that they wanted something for their granal thing
• 1:07:36
  like flower theme greenery, and so I made a sage and lemon
• 1:07:43
  Pariso. Yeah, yes, I think it's Pariso.
• 1:07:46
  Fantastic. And it was just like a lot of, I
• 1:07:49
  boiled a lot of sage. I didn't realize it would turn
• 1:07:51
  that color. And it's getting like it doesn't
• 1:07:55
  taste like hurt. Yeah, that's the topless part.
• 1:07:58
  Yeah, I'm sure it doesn't taste like dirt.
• 1:08:00
  So maybe you could do a dill variant of something.
• 1:08:02
  There you go, I'm. Gonna write.
• 1:08:04
  That down, I'll put that in the back of my head somewhere.
• 1:08:06
  I'm gonna leave that. No curious.
• 1:08:10
  I can't. Do that I'm not one of my my
• 1:08:14
  favorite style because I've there are many styles of dill
• 1:08:17
  pickle beers. The coach, the coaches have
• 1:08:19
  always been my favorite because it's more of a lighter like the
• 1:08:22
  one Steve's talking about like straight pickle juice with some
• 1:08:25
  pepper or something. And it's but the coaches that
• 1:08:28
  that are called themselves a pickle beer are tend to be
• 1:08:30
  lighter and it's just a hint of it.
• 1:08:31
  And I'm not even sure they're Pickles sometimes, but those
• 1:08:33
  those are the ones I kind of prefer, but there's just less of
• 1:08:37
  that pickle, I guess. But.
• 1:08:38
  I think we make a pretty good kolsh.
• 1:08:40
  I like our kolsh. I like our kolsh.
• 1:08:42
  Yeah, tastes like Skip. Does taste like a biscuit.
• 1:08:44
  I don't drink it that often, but it's all right.
• 1:08:48
  Yeah. Before we go on, we're an hour
• 1:08:50
  13. Have you guys got a few more
• 1:08:52
  minutes? Yeah, yeah, that's fine.
• 1:08:54
  Yeah. 10 minutes. We call it 10 minutes.
• 1:08:56
  Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, perfect.
• 1:08:57
  I'm a little sleepy. OK, we don't keep you from
• 1:08:59
  anything. Just like we'll go all night.
• 1:09:01
  No, we could, we could wrap it up in about 10 minutes if that's
• 1:09:03
  cool. And yeah, you're good.
• 1:09:04
  OK, cool. We don't keep you from it and we
• 1:09:06
  know it's later there so. The sun's still cool.
• 1:09:08
  Oh, I didn't. Realize there's time.
• 1:09:10
  Out. You're an hour behind, yeah.
• 1:09:12
  Yeah. 6:30 there. Yeah, we have the benefit of
• 1:09:14
  being 630. We're running the others.
• 1:09:18
  Hey, I've got a question. It's not when I wrote down
• 1:09:20
  earlier, but it's when I just thought of and I've always
• 1:09:23
  wondered about this. You guys know how to check ABV
• 1:09:25
  right? When you when you make your
• 1:09:26
  beer, you probably know how to do Ibus too, but why is that not
• 1:09:30
  a huge stat when you looking at beers in a lot of places like
• 1:09:35
  the Ibus don't show up in a lot of places.
• 1:09:37
  Do you always check those or as just whatever?
• 1:09:39
  I think it's this thing. I feel like we had this big
• 1:09:42
  conversation at one point about it.
• 1:09:45
  I think it's a thing that it's not, but because it's not a
• 1:09:48
  necessity, like you have to know what the ABV is like legally and
• 1:09:52
  what not. And I think because we don't
• 1:09:54
  necessarily legally need to know what the IB us are, it's just
• 1:09:57
  one less thing that we have to worry about.
• 1:09:59
  And it's just one less thing that, well, no, we just haven't.
• 1:10:02
  It just hasn't really been a priority.
• 1:10:04
  And I feel like because a lot of the other breweries like as a
• 1:10:07
  whole hasn't hasn't done it that everyone else is kind of like,
• 1:10:11
  well. I.
• 1:10:12
  Think from like a consumer perspective.
• 1:10:16
  I don't think people necessarily understand IBU.
• 1:10:19
  And then it's like, then you'll have to, then it will become
• 1:10:22
  like a teaching thing, which could be a good thing.
• 1:10:24
  I always love teaching people about beer.
• 1:10:26
  That's not a problem. But I think it's me that people
• 1:10:28
  just aren't. There's the beer nerds who are
• 1:10:32
  curious that want to know for sure.
• 1:10:34
  Then there's some people who are just like, I don't know what
• 1:10:37
  that means. So I think maybe just the lack
• 1:10:40
  of I was a care, I don't know it's.
• 1:10:43
  Just it's a lack of like knowledge and like a lack of
• 1:10:45
  like wanting to know. Yeah, I think they're just that.
• 1:10:48
  I think me they're just aren't as.
• 1:10:49
  Curious. Yeah.
• 1:10:50
  People aren't as curious about IBU.
• 1:10:52
  Like I think when people say or when people see IB, sorry BD,
• 1:10:57
  they're like how fast can this get me drunk?
• 1:11:01
  They see that, and they're like, OK, like, cool, I can have three
• 1:11:04
  of these or two of these or one of these, where like, if they
• 1:11:07
  see a number like IBU, like 55 or 85, they're like, what the
• 1:11:13
  hell does that mean? Yeah.
• 1:11:15
  And then the normal person just doesn't want to hear the
• 1:11:18
  scientific explanation. Or it could be one of those
• 1:11:20
  things too. That's another like if you put
• 1:11:22
  the IB US, it could be different depending on the fears too.
• 1:11:26
  So someone doesn't want bitter, but, you know, you could have a
• 1:11:29
  bitter IPA. Yeah.
• 1:11:31
  So I think it's like just that next level again, which is a
• 1:11:33
  good teaching opportunity for someone, but they might not have
• 1:11:36
  the patience. Yeah.
• 1:11:37
  Or the. Time you know somebody sees
• 1:11:40
  something in a high number, right with a with a 65 or 75 or
• 1:11:43
  something like Oh my God, no way I can't possibly touch that one
• 1:11:47
  you. Know exactly?
• 1:11:48
  Yeah. What is it more work?
• 1:11:50
  I mean, it's got to be another process or another thing you
• 1:11:53
  have to do. But in brewing, what's that
• 1:11:54
  process like to test an IBU to test IB US?
• 1:11:57
  I honestly don't know. I really don't that's.
• 1:11:59
  What Brian does. I he must I I do not know.
• 1:12:02
  I have not been taught that I'm sure I'll put.
• 1:12:05
  Like. It out, but it's one of the
• 1:12:07
  things that we just. I don't know.
• 1:12:10
  Yeah. And I know when we brew beer, we
• 1:12:12
  kind of look at the style and we understand like it'll fall in a
• 1:12:15
  certain range. Yeah, the recipe I'm pretty sure
• 1:12:18
  has it again see me not even paying attention that like the
• 1:12:21
  recipe when she put everything in the salts and the malts and
• 1:12:24
  what not the hops I go spit out a number but I do not personally
• 1:12:29
  know how to like calculate off top my.
• 1:12:31
  Head Our millennial minds need everything to be automated.
• 1:12:34
  I know, yeah. But that's, yeah, it's honestly
• 1:12:40
  one of the things I should probably like, add to my list of
• 1:12:43
  like I should know how to do well.
• 1:12:45
  I just curious to feel like, I feel like I we saw used to see
• 1:12:48
  it maybe five years ago or more like it was prevalent on
• 1:12:50
  everything that's sort of cans or bottles.
• 1:12:52
  But like when you went to a tap room and I haven't seen it.
• 1:12:54
  And what reminded me is I checked in a beer the other day
• 1:12:56
  and on tap and I actually saw Ibus, which you never see on
• 1:12:59
  there and it was 100, which I kind of think the IBU thing is
• 1:13:03
  the wild, Wild West. Like I think you could throw cuz
• 1:13:05
  I would think 100 would be the highest, but no, you've seen 120
• 1:13:07
  and went I'm like OK, maybe it's not really it's.
• 1:13:11
  The scale like what? How do we understand this guys?
• 1:13:13
  Like it makes. It doesn't make any sense.
• 1:13:16
  I agree. I agree, but I and I like it.
• 1:13:18
  But if you if you slapped one other as 150, I'm getting that
• 1:13:21
  one first. So just to let you know.
• 1:13:23
  I. Don't care about the rest of it.
• 1:13:26
  Then we finally figure out do all the yeah.
• 1:13:29
  We'll do SB and we'll make it extra.
• 1:13:31
  We'll do an EESB. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:33
  Extra, extra special. Building, yeah.
• 1:13:34
  And then we'll figure out. How to do and we'll.
• 1:13:37
  Sell the gimmick behind. It.
• 1:13:38
  Yeah, and we'll send it to you. Yeah.
• 1:13:40
  There you go. I'll review it.
• 1:13:42
  I'll review it live. I'll do it.
• 1:13:45
  Hey, got a couple couple quick words, a couple quick words.
• 1:13:47
  Steve might have something too. But how does how do you guys
• 1:13:49
  want Esoteric to be perceived in the industry as a brewery?
• 1:13:53
  You want. You want me to take this?
• 1:13:55
  You want me to go for? It I think we both can answer.
• 1:13:57
  Right. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:00
  I think from, you know, as somebody who's been here the
• 1:14:03
  entire time, we want this to be a place that everybody can come
• 1:14:07
  to and feel welcomed. Our tagline is crafting
• 1:14:09
  community, and we really want to embrace that and really want
• 1:14:13
  people to, when they step into our tap room, feel like they're
• 1:14:17
  in a space where community is the main focus.
• 1:14:21
  With that being said, we've done so many different things with
• 1:14:24
  different organizations within Walnut Hills, which is where
• 1:14:27
  we're located, including working with Artworks, which is one of
• 1:14:31
  the bigger nonprofit art companies here in the city.
• 1:14:34
  They do these fantastic murals across the city and we actually
• 1:14:37
  have one on our building and on the back, but we have artists
• 1:14:40
  that come in and we put their can or their art on our cans and
• 1:14:44
  we sell them in the tap room. They choose a local nonprofit
• 1:14:48
  and proceeds from those cans go to both the artisan and
• 1:14:51
  nonprofit. We've worked with, like I said,
• 1:14:53
  we've worked with Dewey's. We've done give backs.
• 1:14:56
  We want to be in that place that people can come to like the
• 1:14:59
  local water and coal and say like, I feel I feel good here
• 1:15:03
  and I feel like I'm a part of something that's bigger than who
• 1:15:06
  I am so. I think for me, like obviously
• 1:15:09
  Ditto all that. That's like super important.
• 1:15:11
  I really do love that we have that and that's one thing that
• 1:15:15
  drew me to esoteric originally. I want people to think of us as
• 1:15:20
  having good traditional styles or just clean, like being
• 1:15:24
  selfish because I'm not good. So I want.
• 1:15:28
  You get the brewing answer, you get the.
• 1:15:29
  Market. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:15:30
  I want people to have a safe space that then come here and
• 1:15:33
  have good drinks. I want my product to just for
• 1:15:38
  people to enjoy it. Like I think that's one thing
• 1:15:40
  too, that when I got into this industry that I needed that,
• 1:15:44
  that I made this. This is I made.
• 1:15:46
  I made this with love. Yeah, kind of, yeah.
• 1:15:48
  Really. But.
• 1:15:49
  Maybe I'll put that on every campaign.
• 1:15:51
  But like, I want people to be able to say I love nothing else
• 1:15:54
  than just sitting around drinking a beer with friends.
• 1:15:58
  And that's what I want. I want people to come here with
• 1:16:00
  their friends or meet new people and be able to have like, this
• 1:16:03
  is a great beer. How was your day?
• 1:16:05
  That's what I want. And I think if you ever sat back
• 1:16:07
  like you've come off of the shift, right, and you're like,
• 1:16:09
  you go to the bar and get a beer or something, or just sit and
• 1:16:11
  look at the people in the bar or just sit around drinking your
• 1:16:14
  stuff. Just they're, but they're
• 1:16:17
  drinking your stuff and you're like they're enjoying it.
• 1:16:19
  That's got to be, it's got to be satisfactory.
• 1:16:21
  Right. It is, it is very funny.
• 1:16:23
  Like I guess I don't really think of it a whole whole lot
• 1:16:25
  like that. Like obviously I'll go up after
• 1:16:27
  shifts and I'll sit there and like look around.
• 1:16:29
  But then it was just like yesterday we had a guy come in
• 1:16:32
  and the bartenders have been very, they're very sweet.
• 1:16:34
  They they, I love and I hate it. They'll be like, there's a
• 1:16:36
  Brewer. She's right there.
• 1:16:39
  Like this guy came over. He's like, this is just really
• 1:16:41
  good. And like, it's just kind of
• 1:16:42
  crazy. I'm like, Oh yeah, I did make
• 1:16:44
  that it. Goes back to that sense of
• 1:16:46
  community, like we do this to make people feel happy.
• 1:16:51
  We do this to, you know, at the end of the day, make sure people
• 1:16:55
  can go home with a product that tastes good and they can share
• 1:16:58
  with people. I've got one more and Steve,
• 1:17:00
  you, you can wrap up if you want to.
• 1:17:01
  Please let me do one more and then we'll, I'll, I'll wrap up
• 1:17:03
  and shut my mouth. We got more.
• 1:17:07
  So when you come back on next time, we'll, we'll get to the
• 1:17:09
  rest of. But what's something each of you
• 1:17:11
  would change within the craft beer world, whether it's at the
• 1:17:15
  brewery or just in general, or Wow?
• 1:17:17
  I've never. I don't know change.
• 1:17:20
  That's a tough question. I.
• 1:17:21
  Don't know. I don't know if it necessarily
• 1:17:23
  be changed, but I think it just bring maybe more awareness to
• 1:17:29
  the I see the people behind the scenes, but just a especially
• 1:17:34
  like being a woman, being minority myself, that there are
• 1:17:40
  us out there and that just I guess more recognition maybe on
• 1:17:46
  that part and sure change. Otherwise, I don't know, I think
• 1:17:52
  maybe even more camaraderie. I mean, we all do care about
• 1:17:55
  each other. Yeah.
• 1:17:57
  Especially in this time, yeah. We, especially in the city.
• 1:18:00
  And the city, yeah, especially because we're so we're such a
• 1:18:03
  big city with so many breweries that like, you know, we all have
• 1:18:06
  our pettiness and our what we, our thoughts and opinions on
• 1:18:09
  different breweries. But like, it does suck when a
• 1:18:10
  brewery shuts down. Yeah.
• 1:18:12
  And so yeah, the resources from each other and like help out
• 1:18:16
  like, hey, do you need yeast or do you need hops?
• 1:18:18
  Like I think maybe maybe like even changed a rivalry now
• 1:18:22
  because of the hard times, like maybe five years ago, we can all
• 1:18:25
  like be like, whatever. But now I think you really need
• 1:18:28
  to change that. So it's a community.
• 1:18:30
  What do you need to? Yeah.
• 1:18:32
  And when we talk about that a lot, you know, since we started
• 1:18:35
  the podcast is we've we've made friends from what, you know,
• 1:18:38
  what we call the beer community. I mean, there were some guys in
• 1:18:40
  Louisville who we became friends with through the your community.
• 1:18:44
  They came down last year in Nashville and you know, we hung
• 1:18:47
  out and then they came back up. They came up to Cincinnati for a
• 1:18:50
  couple days and we were hanging out and join us on brewery tours
• 1:18:53
  and stuff like that. So I agree, I see where you're
• 1:18:55
  going there with that. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:18:58
  Nice. John, John, back to your
• 1:18:59
  original, maybe early on what you said and I had to look up a
• 1:19:02
  rising tide, lift all boats. There we go.
• 1:19:04
  There we go. Yeah, Rising tide lifts all
• 1:19:06
  bets. Yeah, You know, at the end of
• 1:19:08
  the day, like we have 80 plus breweries in this city and our
• 1:19:13
  doors are open to them if they need anything.
• 1:19:16
  And we just hope that's reciprocated because, you know,
• 1:19:18
  life's not easy. Life is tough.
• 1:19:20
  And you know, you know the day. We're just here to make a liquid
• 1:19:23
  that helps make it a little bit easier.
• 1:19:26
  Something we we all enjoy, we certainly do.
• 1:19:29
  Yep, definitely. Well, Steve, take us home,
• 1:19:32
  buddy. Well, hey, I got a couple of
• 1:19:33
  quick questions and then we'll wrap it up.
• 1:19:36
  And one of the first questions is any, any talk about you guys
• 1:19:40
  expanding any other locations or anything like that in the future
• 1:19:45
  that you can talk about that you've heard about, not rumors
• 1:19:48
  and gossip, but you know. I'd never say never, but we
• 1:19:51
  don't have any plans currently right now.
• 1:19:54
  Just kind of the environment, just kind of the environment
• 1:19:56
  right now in terms of where the is, we're just kind of trying to
• 1:20:00
  perfect our craft. Yeah.
• 1:20:02
  And we're trying to focus on on our community that we're
• 1:20:05
  currently in and make sure that we're servicing them the best
• 1:20:08
  that we can. Said, though, never say never,
• 1:20:11
  you know, yeah, like we, we pop off and, you know, we're the
• 1:20:15
  size of Badgery or Rhine Geist and we're able to, to go build
• 1:20:20
  another spot, but for right now we're just, we're just homebody.
• 1:20:23
  Yeah, we're. Just hanging out, I think it
• 1:20:25
  needs. There's still a lot of love that
• 1:20:27
  needs to be done here. Yeah, the food, well, it's a
• 1:20:30
  it's a great location, no doubt. And we'll wrap it up with just
• 1:20:33
  asking this. So for people, you know,
• 1:20:36
  listening to this podcast, wherever they're listening to it
• 1:20:39
  and we've talked about you guys have some of your beer and can.
• 1:20:43
  I know you can get it, pick it up there.
• 1:20:45
  But what's your reach as far as like where where they can also
• 1:20:48
  pick up, you know, your your cans?
• 1:20:50
  Is it just in the Cincinnati area right now?
• 1:20:52
  So yeah, currently right now we're just in the Cincinnati
• 1:20:54
  area and a little bit in Northern Kentucky.
• 1:20:57
  Just kind of like reading the room and understanding where the
• 1:21:00
  market is going. We kind of pulled back a little
• 1:21:03
  bit, but yeah, you can get it a bunch of different places here
• 1:21:06
  in the city and occasionally we do some stuff up to date into
• 1:21:10
  Barrel House. Thanks.
• 1:21:11
  Barrel House, great people up there as well.
• 1:21:13
  Yeah, but mostly just here in the city.
• 1:21:15
  Yeah, we're very local and then that's kind of how we like it
• 1:21:19
  right now. Well, cool.
• 1:21:20
  We'll just we'll give a shout out to you guys and tell anybody
• 1:21:23
  that's listening to this podcast get the esoteric, get the
• 1:21:26
  esoteric brewing. The place is awesome.
• 1:21:29
  The space is awesome, the people are great, the beer, it is
• 1:21:33
  tremendous, so we appreciate it. You can buy it online.
• 1:21:36
  I'm sure this in the local area also.
• 1:21:37
  We'll hold off on starting a Bring Esoteric to Tennessee page
• 1:21:41
  for a while, if you. Find a spot, just let me know.
• 1:21:48
  I mean we could work it. We can work it out.
• 1:21:51
  You can make the beer. We can drink it.
• 1:21:54
  Yeah. Yeah, man.
• 1:21:56
  Good. You guys ever come down again?
• 1:21:57
  You look us up, man. Look us up and bring some beer,
• 1:22:00
  will you? Yeah.
• 1:22:01
  Yeah, for sure. Maybe a Bengals get there.
• 1:22:03
  You go. There you go.
• 1:22:04
  They're down here frequently. All right.
• 1:22:06
  Well, that's John and that's Anique from Esoteric Proving
• 1:22:09
  guys. We appreciate it on the Maria
• 1:22:11
  Underground podcast. Thanks so much for being on with
• 1:22:13
  us. Was a fun time.
• 1:22:15
  Enjoyed meeting you in person. This was this was exceptional as
• 1:22:17
  well. Can't wait to talk to you again.
• 1:22:19
  Thanks. For thanks for having us on
• 1:22:21
  guys. We really appreciate.
• 1:22:22
  It thanks guys. Congratulated.
• 1:22:24
  Cheers. Cheers.