Latest / The Scene Projects / Ian Palmer on Leadership, Coaching Coaches, and Building Championship Culture

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Ian Palmer on Leadership, Coaching Coaches, and Building Championship Culture · The Scene Projects

• 0:22
  Welcome in to Real Biz.
• 0:24
  I am your host, Bubba Starts, and with me today is leadership adviser, Ian Palmer.
• 0:29
  Ian, welcome to the show.
• 0:30
  Hey, Bubba.
• 0:31
  Good to see you.
• 0:32
  Thanks for having me on.
• 0:33
  Yeah.
• 0:34
  Absolute pleasure.
• 0:35
  Wanna thank you for your service off the top.
• 0:38
  I know we're gonna cover that, in your backstory a little bit and everything that
• 0:42
  you're doing now in the sports world.
• 0:44
  So it's a little hard to figure out where were we gonna put you, whether we were gonna do it
• 0:48
  on the sports network or here on RealBiz, but I think this platform provides a really great,
• 0:53
  you know, space for us to have a conversation really about your business, and we can always
• 0:58
  have you back on to talk sports and maybe about, you know, your your local UK wildcats
• 1:03
  anytime.
• 1:04
  Okay.
• 1:04
  Sounds great.
• 1:06
  Well, always like to start off with a little bit of that backstory, kinda get that
• 1:10
  established, and then we'll pick the conversation up from there.
• 1:13
  Yes.
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  So I I grew up, born and raised north of Youngstown, Ohio, so I'm a North Northeast Ohio
• 1:19
  guy.
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  From there, I went on an ROTC scholar army ROTC scholarship to University of Notre Dame where I
• 1:27
  did my four years there, met my wife, went immediately on to active duty into the army a
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  week after graduation, actually.
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  And from there, really, you know, as they say, travel the world in the army for twenty six
• 1:40
  years.
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  Along the way, my wife and I had seven children, and we just had our first grandbaby
• 1:47
  back in May.
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  So big family.
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  Both my wife and I came from big family, so that's what we were used to, and we are truly
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  blessed.
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  I retired from the army at the end of two thousand twenty three, so just going on three
• 2:00
  years ago.
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  And, from there, moved to, just outside of Lexington, Kentucky and worked for a leadership
• 2:08
  consulting company for two years.
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  And almost exactly a year ago, branched out and started my own business, Ian Palmer Leadership,
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  where I focus on developing the leadership of coaches and leaders within the athletics
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  community.
• 2:25
  Yeah.
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  And like I said, thank you for your service.
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  Twenty six years serving your country and raising seven children.
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  We didn't cover that in the discovery call.
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  I was I was wondering as I said it.
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  Yeah.
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  And your wife, I have three, and I can't imagine doubling and then some, running and
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  chasing around all of that.
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  But, obviously, a a very joyful household, with you all there.
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  Ian, were were you an athlete growing up?
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  You know, what was the inclination into sports?
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  And I know the the, you know, the the first company that you worked for after your military
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  service was heavily focused on that coaching, but has there always been a natural inclination
• 3:00
  for you into athletics?
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  Absolutely.
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  I I played every sport I could, and you and I have talked about this, but the the year
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  revolved around what season you know, what sports season's going on.
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  So football, baseball, basketball.
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  I played a lot of soccer, really anything.
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  And that was such a foundational thing for me in terms of my own development into army
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  leadership.
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  So when I started my army service, I approached it very much like an athletics team because so
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  many of the leaders as I was growing up were coaches, and they were such a great positive
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  influence on me.
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  That was what I took with me into the army.
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  So when I retired, I wanted to get back into the athletics community.
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  And I'll tell people, or when I had the conversation while I was still on active duty,
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  people would ask, what would you be doing if you weren't in the army or if you were to get
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  out?
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  Was always I would be a coach.
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  Specifically, I wanted to be a high school football coach.
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  I love Friday night lights.
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  And every fall, I would fire it back up.
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  So I I have always viewed leadership through the lens of athletics and coaching.
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  So it was a big influence on me throughout my career and then, obviously, since I've retired
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  from the army.
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  Yeah.
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  And then making the coach from, or the jump rather from, maybe coaching a team to coaching
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  coaches, What was that a very natural fit for you?
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  And, obviously, with twenty six years in the military, you found yourself in that,
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  especially with your ROTC background and moving in, you know, probably coming in in in in a
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  position of leadership from jump street.
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  So you've always been looked up to by others and by teams, but now you're really working
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  with the leaders themselves and coaching them.
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  Was that a natural fit for you kinda moving now into the private sector?
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  Well, I have always viewed the first priority of any leader is to create more leaders.
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  So I tried to do that while I was on active duty, so I was always heavily invested in
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  leadership development of the people around me, subordinates.
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  And when I decided to retire, part of me did wanna go into athletics coaching, but it it had
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  been so long since I was it would just have been, from a tactical perspective, such a big
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  jump for me.
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  So I looked for the way that I could do it using my experience, using almost thirty years
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  of leadership study and practice that it was a very natural fit for me to go into athletics
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  and try to apply that leadership experience into the athletics world for coaches.
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  And what is true in coaching as it is as it is in a lot of other professions, you get promoted
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  into positions of responsibility for different skills than you need when you get into that
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  position of responsibility.
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  So what I'm finding in, in a lot of different professions in the corporate world that you get
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  put in charge of people without necessarily being trained on how to do that, and it's a
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  different skill set than the things that get valued early in your career.
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  So if you're good at x's and o's, you're good at tactics, you'll you'll get promoted in
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  positions where you're put in charge of other people, but that's not the same skill set that
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  you need when you get there.
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  Yeah.
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  It's a constant learning process.
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  Right?
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  No matter whether you've been promoted to that position or not.
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  And I know that a lot of the work that you're doing is working with, you know, assistant
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  coaches or people that are farther down to help them build those skills, to be a head coach
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  before they get there.
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  Does that stem from your experience in the military and seeing exactly what you just spoke
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  about?
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  Absolutely.
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  And there were different positions I held in the army where you can be very it it's a lot
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  easier to judge a decision that someone else is making.
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  It's a lot easier to critique or think about how you would do it differently when you're on
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  the outside looking in.
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  And what I tell coaches a lot is that the the view of the seat is different than the feeling
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  within the seat.
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  So when you're the one put in charge of driving the culture of developing others, of making the
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  difficult decisions, it feels a lot different when you're doing it and when you're watching
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  somebody else do it.
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  So that jump from being an assistant to being a head coach for me in the army from being maybe
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  an executive officer or second in command to being the commander, that's a big jump.
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  So the more preparation you can do while you're waiting to take that position will close that
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  gap a lot.
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  It's still gonna be different, but the more preparation that you do, the more consideration
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  about what's your co coaching philosophy going to be, how do you create a vision, how do you
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  keep how do you hold people accountable.
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  There are just so many things that you can develop while you're in those positions and
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  still be focused on being the best assistant coach that you could be, doing those things in
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  parallel in preparation for becoming a head coach are pretty valuable exercises to go
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  through.
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  Yeah.
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  And exactly what you just touched on is why, you know, especially in a a league like the
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  NFL, so many people that are really good offensive or defensive coordinators who then
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  get their first head coaching job really stumble in that first because just because you
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  know how to work with your players in a room and with a smaller group of people doesn't
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  necessarily prepare you for working with everyone in the building and having the charge
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  of not just the players on the field, but all of the coaches and their staffs underneath of
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  them as well.
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  Right.
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  When you when you're in charge of an entire program, that's different.
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  I mean, you're when you're a coordinator, you can be very squarely focused on the defense or
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  the offense or the special teams.
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  And and, again, very focused on the x's and o's.
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  You don't have a lot of program level or franchise level responsibilities.
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  Well, as the head coach, you then are focused a lot more on the up and out, as we like to say,
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  in the army, and you have to incorporate that while also still doing the x's and o's
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  correctly.
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  And I think the point your point about that transition from coordinator to head coach, I
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  think it it spans across all sports.
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  But what you see is first time head coaches in particular, one of the mistakes that are made
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  pretty frequently is trying to be the coach that you worked under before you became the
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  head coach rather than finding your own leadership voice, as I call it, and doing
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  things the way that are gonna work for you and your leadership style.
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  And that's one of the things that comes up a lot when I work with coaches is how do you find
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  your own voice?
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  How do you create your own culture?
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  How do you create your own vision that's gonna work for you and your leadership style?
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  Because we're we're all gonna lead differently because we're created differently.
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  I'd like to dig into that a little bit, Ian, and how you kind of assess an individual.
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  And I know that you do a lot of, you know, kind of workshops and working with larger groups.
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  Do you have a system that you're able to kinda run all these people through so that you can
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  identify, you know, what personality traits and and what that profile for their coaching looks
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  like?
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  I do.
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  And first, I'll say that any team or program that I work with, the work that we do together
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  gets tailored specifically to the needs of that program or that coach.
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  So as as you and I did, I'll have a discovery or a series of discovery conversations just to
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  get an appreciation for where they are as coaches or where the program is, what are the
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  obstacles they're running into, what are the things that are working well, and then take
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  that and advance it based off of our conversations together.
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  How do we get you to next?
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  How do we get you to just a little bit better tomorrow and and the day after and the day
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  after that?
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  So that's always the first priority for me is is just to get to know you and your program and
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  then tailor the work that we do together specifically to meet the needs that you have.
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  But I do have a a specific system, and and I call it creating championship culture.
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  That's the that's the overall program.
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  So it's a an accumulation of different perspectives on aspects of culture and
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  leadership that that I've gathered over years and years, and how do you apply those things to
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  an athletics program.
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  And what we're what we're seeking by using that program is we want you to achieve competitive
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  greatness.
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  And I I took that from John Wooden's pyramid of success where the top block in that pyramid is
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  competitive greatness.
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  And why I love that so much is because nowhere on John Wooden who did a lot of winning,
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  nowhere do you see the word win in his pyramid of success.
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  It's about focusing on developing people, being good people, having good systems and processes,
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  being the best version of yourself, and the output is competitive greatness, which means if
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  you've given your all, if you've done everything you can do, paid attention to all
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  the details, given your best effort, you're gonna be the best situated to win, and the wins
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  are gonna follow.
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  So it's really process oriented.
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  It's really focused on internal things that you can control because you can't control whether
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  you win or lose.
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  So the competitive greatness, formula is based off of those same things.
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  How do you live well?
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  How do you lead well?
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  How do you treat your people well?
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  How do you create positive culture?
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  And you set the conditions that will most likely produce wins.
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  Yeah.
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  Winning is a result and not necessarily the goal starting out.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  So if you can make it not about the result, then and that's how I again, back pointing back
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  to my army career, my leaders my personal leadership philosophy was all about that.
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  I I didn't I I knew that the results would come if you do the things every day that are gonna
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  produce a winning culture, a positive culture, a healthy command climate.
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  The wins are gonna come.
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  But if you focus on winning, then there's a lot of different avenues to get there, and not all
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  of those are great.
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  Now you've been out on your own, for the last year.
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  You you've worked with a lot of different coaches and different levels of coaches.
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  Do you feel like you've really found a niche where your impact is felt the most, whether it
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  be maybe, you know, high school coaches, college coaches, maybe some professional
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  programs.
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  Is there a certain area where you feel like your impact is felt the most?
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  Yeah.
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  You mentioned it earlier.
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  I think the impact in the first year has been greatest with assistant coaches.
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  And the reason I say that is be is for for all the reasons I described that assistant coaches
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  haven't always put in the work to determine how they would lead or how they are leading.
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  I mean, because assistant coaches are leaders as well.
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  So we're not we're not just focused on assistant coaches to create head coaches.
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  We're we're focused on assistant coaches to help create better leaders who may someday
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  become a head coach.
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  So we we talk about followership, but the the curiosity and the hunger and the and the growth
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  mindset and the assistant coaches seems to be just a little bit greater than than with the
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  head coaches from observations in the first year.
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  But it's, it's about reflection and defining your leadership voice in a way that's gonna
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  make you a better assistant coach and probably someday a head coach.
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  And I'm curious as to how you're meeting some of these people.
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  Right?
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  I I you could spend a ton of time cold calling and connecting with people on LinkedIn similar
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  to how I do it, is a huge lift to get out and do.
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  But are there other avenues that you've been finding or or maybe a little bit more
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  successful for you to get out and in front of a a larger group of coaches?
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  It it's for me, it's all about relationships.
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  So in a similar way that you and I met, we met through, you know, Tim Nyman, and he made the
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  recommendation that that we connect.
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  And that's the way most of these things have happened, and that's the way I prefer.
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  I'm not a cold call guy.
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  And to be honest, the the cold calls aren't really effective in in in what I do because
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  it's those it's gotta be based on a trusted relationship.
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  So if you were to say to a coach that you know, hey.
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  I've worked with Ian.
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  It's been really valuable.
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  I think you'll benefit from this relationship.
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  That's much more powerful than me sending you a cold LinkedIn message that we all get so many
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  of that don't really have the same, I guess, genuine quality to it or authenticity as you
• 16:04
  might get from relationship to relationship.
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  So that's really been my approach is take a strong trusted relationship that I've already
• 16:11
  made, and, that will lead to another coach or two or three, and that opens up opportunities.
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  And that's exactly what's been happening.
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  Well and here, reflecting a little bit on the year that was, do you feel like, you're seeing
• 16:27
  not only short term success, but long term success engaging this out?
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  I know how passionate you are about creating more leaders.
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  Do you see in a short in a rather small sample size yet with only, you know, eleven, twelve
• 16:41
  months under your belt that this is something that you can continue doing till you don't want
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  to do it anymore.
• 16:48
  Oh, for sure.
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  And and I do it again because I have a passion for leadership.
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  I have a passion for athletics.
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  I want coaches to give to their other coaches and players the same thing that I got through
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  good coach leadership, you know, when I when I was growing up and and when I was an athlete.
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  So that the giving back of my experience and the things that I've learned over the years is
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  why I do this.
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  And I I don't think there's a time when that won't be true.
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  Now, you know, somewhere down the road, Missy and I might decide to buy an RV just so we can
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  drive all over the country and visit grandkids, but I don't think that that'll eliminate the
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  same passion that I have for for giving to others.
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  So, the gifts I've been given, I wanna pass on to other people.
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  So I I could continue to do this for the foreseeable future for sure.
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  And I think what you just test touched on there is something that anyone in any field, can take
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  away.
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  It is that you have gifts.
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  We all have certain gifts.
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  How do you share them?
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  How do you teach others and build a legacy of that education building up whether it's new
• 18:00
  leaders or or whatever knowledge you may have?
• 18:02
  We all have something to share, and I think that's why I'm as passionate as I am about
• 18:07
  podcasting is building a platform for people to have an opportunity like this, Ian, has become
• 18:13
  a passion of mine, and I can't see, ever really doing anything different.
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  I think it may take different forms as we evolve and maybe we'll do more in person and
• 18:23
  maybe one day have a studio to do these and have these conversations in.
• 18:28
  Mhmm.
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  But I don't ever see myself getting away from that.
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  And and along the same veins now, teaching people how to do the things that that I've
• 18:37
  learned how to do that now I can turn around and teach them.
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  So I think there's a lot of power in what you just said there.
• 18:44
  Yeah.
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  And I think it, what has been one of the more valuable things for me in this in this year
• 18:49
  that I've been running, you know, my own company is it's forced me to memorialize a lot
• 18:57
  of the stories and lessons that I learned.
• 19:00
  So through the work, I have captured some things that I I might not have shared with
• 19:05
  other people before.
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  And it I write a blog every couple weeks.
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  I do a newsletter, videos, and stuff like that to to share to share those things and give a
• 19:16
  sampling of of the work that I'm doing with coaches.
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  But more important to that is capturing things that I I wouldn't have otherwise.
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  So it's forced me to write things down, to organize my thoughts, to kinda take a look at
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  how I view leadership, both from what I was taught coming up through the army and through
• 19:35
  ROTC and all that, and then how that was applied in my experience.
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  So how did the theory meet the practice, or how did the science meet the art, and what would
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  what was the result?
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  So I've had to reflect on a lot of those things, capture them, record them, and then I'm
• 19:50
  offering those that to other people.
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  And that's where a lot of the the models and things that I've developed in in this year have
• 19:56
  come from.
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  Is just starting with stories and starting with memories and okay.
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  How did we get there?
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  And how does that apply to leadership theory?
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  And what was the result of that thing?
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  And how did this story impact my life in the way I led in the future?
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  And and all those those different things.
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  It's just been a really good journey to sit down and and capture those things and record
• 20:21
  them so I can give them to other people.
• 20:24
  Yeah.
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  I think there's a tremendous power in that, and and that may be the number one reason, that I I
• 20:31
  fell in love with podcasting early on is because I was able to share my story, and it
• 20:35
  was kind of forcing me into, you know, that reflection and and why why am I like I am and
• 20:42
  and how does that impact the life that I'm living now and how can that impact the lives
• 20:48
  around me.
• 20:49
  So I think there's, some really good tidbits there for people listening, that are, you know,
• 20:54
  just thinking about their own life and maybe don't understand what it is that they have to
• 20:58
  offer yet.
• 20:59
  But to start to tell these stories and whether you're doing it in a blog or you're, you know,
• 21:04
  coming on a podcast or you start a podcast of your own or social media content, however
• 21:08
  you're doing it, I think we all learn more about ourselves maybe in that process than we
• 21:14
  ever thought was possible.
• 21:16
  And I'm glad you brought that up because you asked about the process that I that I I take
• 21:20
  coaches through when I work with them.
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  If I'm doing a one on one relationship, that that's exactly where we start.
• 21:27
  We start with reflection on how did you get here?
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  What happened in your life, good and bad, that shaped you in a way that kind of helps you
• 21:36
  create the person that you are today?
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  And then how do you overlay that on how you lead?
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  How can you take that and communicate your values?
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  And so we we run through all of that, but it all starts with our stories because I'm such a
• 21:49
  believer.
• 21:50
  It was one of my favorite things to do in the army was to to go around and meet new meet
• 21:55
  different soldiers, these young kids that are coming up, and they come from everywhere.
• 21:59
  I mean, they and they don't all all come from the Continental United States, and they come
• 22:04
  from Puerto Rico and Guam and all these different places.
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  And they come to or they came to the army to better their lives and their families' lives
• 22:13
  through hard work, and they're taking advantage.
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  And would I just love to hear where you came from stories.
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  And it was just such a because it creates so much of our foundation for how we see the
• 22:23
  world, for better or worse in a lot of cases, but it it all is.
• 22:27
  Right?
• 22:27
  So whatever it is, it is, and that's gonna shape how you see the world and how you lead.
• 22:32
  Yeah.
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  The the perception is what makes it good or bad or or better or worse.
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  Right?
• 22:37
  It's all data that we're we're intaking, and that's why, you know, the thousand interviews
• 22:42
  that I've done in the last few years have been extremely impactful on my life.
• 22:47
  And not only sharing my story with others, but hearing so many stories.
• 22:51
  And everyone comes from a different point.
• 22:53
  Even if you're sitting in the same chair or at a same level, we've both taken very different
• 22:59
  paths to get there.
• 23:00
  And I think that, that's something that's a little bit lacking, in this world and in this
• 23:06
  digital age as, you know, most people are spending so much time just kinda scrolling
• 23:10
  through and maybe seeing the highlights of that.
• 23:13
  I think that's why podcasting, was so attractive to me, especially early on and
• 23:18
  remains so because of that, the deeper relationships, the deeper conversations that
• 23:23
  we're able to have.
• 23:24
  And I think that's why the the podcast is now having the success that it is.
• 23:29
  Right?
• 23:29
  We've gone from, 1,600 downloads a month ago to over 7,800 this thirty days.
• 23:36
  So there's obviously some momentum, and people are attracted to the conversations that I'm
• 23:41
  having, and I'm very blessed to be able to do so as I know you feel about the work that
• 23:46
  you're doing with these coaches.
• 23:47
  Ian, how are people able to kinda start this process with you?
• 23:51
  Say I'm a assistant coach at a a local, you know, division three college, but I wanna
• 23:57
  improve my leadership qualities.
• 23:59
  How can people reach out to you and begin that process?
• 24:03
  Well, on the scroll, you you'll that you'll see the website, and that's where I encourage
• 24:07
  everybody to start.
• 24:07
  It's it's very simply ianpalmerleadership.com.
• 24:11
  On my website, there's a link to schedule a call that you know, I I don't charge anybody
• 24:18
  for for a call.
• 24:19
  So I love to hear, again, their stories, kinda where they're at, what they're struggling with.
• 24:22
  So it all starts with a conversation.
• 24:24
  And if you're not ready for a call, there are links to all the my different social media
• 24:29
  platforms.
• 24:30
  But I do encourage people, if you're if you're not ready or just want a sampling of what I do
• 24:36
  with coaches and what my experience is and you wanna hear stories, that's what I put out every
• 24:42
  week in the newsletter.
• 24:43
  And that's ian palmer leadership dot com slash newsletter is the sign up.
• 24:48
  So there's multiple methods, but they all start with the website at ianpalmerleadership.com.
• 24:52
  And from there, I'm I'm easily, contacted.
• 24:56
  I answer every platform.
• 24:57
  So if you reach out to me on Instagram, you know, I'll I'll answer.
• 25:01
  But, I do encourage people to start at the website.
• 25:04
  Fantastic, Ian.
• 25:05
  Well, I've had a blast, getting to know you over the course of our last few conversations.
• 25:09
  I look forward to, continuing to deepen those relationships with you over the course of the
• 25:15
  rest of our lives as well and, to watch as you grow, you know, your business and as you have
• 25:21
  more and more leaders and really that community of leaders that you're building.
• 25:26
  I'm really excited to see what comes from that as we extrapolate it over the next twelve to
• 25:31
  thirty six to, you know, ten years, hopefully.
• 25:35
  And, hopefully, there there's a lot of impact that's going to be had from this, and I know
• 25:39
  that for certain.
• 25:40
  Ian, thank you so much for joining me today on RealBiz, and thank you for being part of the
• 25:45
  scene.
• 25:46
  Thanks, Bubba.
• 25:47
  I appreciate it, and I've, I've enjoyed getting to know you as well.