Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Microstrategy & Bitcoin Changes Everything in 3 days Time! | EP 1137

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Microstrategy & Bitcoin Changes Everything in 3 days Time! | EP 1137 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Yo, MicroStrategy is about to be included in the $26 trillion
• 0:06
  NASDAQ 100 in just two days. This means that trillions of
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  dollars will be now will now be buying MicroStrategy by proxy
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  whenever they want to buy a piece of the QQQ.
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  This is because of something called passive investing.
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  Does this inclusion into the NASDAQ 100 and any potential
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  shorts in on MicroStrategy and blow up billions of dollars of
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  MicroStrategy a stock price? I don't know we'll see, but
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  we're going to get into what the NASDAQ 100 is what is about to
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  happen in the next two days. And I also think anything that's
• 0:45
  good for MSTRI think is good for Bitcoin.
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  I think it goes kind of goes both ways because of the amount
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  of Bitcoin that MSTR holds. Joining me today have doctor
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  Bitcoin in the house and of course, my legendary Co host,
• 0:59
  always optimistic optimist fields.
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  So let's get it just jump straight into the news.
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  So first, what is the NASDAQ 100?
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  The NASDAQ 100 is a stock market index made-up of equity
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  securities issued by 100 of the largest non financial companies
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  listed on the NASDAQ Stock Exchange.
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  It goes on to say here's the breaking news.
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  MicroStrategy expected to be added to the NASDAQ 100.
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  According to Bloomberg, the official announcement is likely
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  coming this Friday. Now what are some of the
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  reasons? What are some of the potential
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  benefits of being on the NASDAQ 100?
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  Number one, prestige and credibility.
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  Inclusion signals that a company that the company is among the
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  largest and most successful non financial companies listed on
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  the NASDAQ Stock Exchange #2 increase visibility.
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  Companies in the NASDAQ 100 gain attention from investors,
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  analysts, and media, enhancing their public profile #3 attracts
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  investments. Many index funds and ETFs track
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  the NASDAQ 101 hundred, resulting in automatic
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  investment from these funds, which can boost the company's
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  stock price and liquidity #4 Validation of growth.
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  Inclusion reflects strong financial performance, market
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  capitalization, and growth potential #5 investor
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  confidence. Being part of the NASDAQ 100 can
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  reinsure investors of the company's stability and
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  prominence in its industry. Number six, the NASDAQ 100 is
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  widely followed internationally, offering companies exposure to
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  global investors. I think the part that I really
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  want to focus on specifically is the automatic investment from
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  funds, right? So a lot of people that perhaps
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  aren't familiar with Bitcoin aren't comfortable getting
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  exposure to Bitcoin. They see this and they're like,
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  wait a second, you know, they're just buying the NASDAQ 100, the
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  QQQQ, and they're getting exposure to Bitcoin whether they
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  realize it or not. And then this kind of goes down
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  the something that we've talked about for many months now, this
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  idea of the game theory, the idea of incentives, right?
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  All of a sudden, if MicroStrategy is included in the
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  NASDAQ 100, all of a sudden Bitcoin starts to become a part
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  of of people's everyday portfolios, whether they like it
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  or not. So their incentives are going to
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  be aligned with number go up. They're going to be more against
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  any type of anti Bitcoin regulation because that
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  potentially could affect their bags.
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  This is what we're talking about when we talk about aligned
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  incentives and when we talk about the game theory.
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  And once you understand the game theory of Bitcoin and the
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  aligned incentives of Bitcoin, you inevitably come to the
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  realization that Bitcoin is going to win.
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  So anyways, an article by our boy Nick Hoffman from Bitcoin
• 4:11
  magazine today, Bloomberg ETF analyst Eric Balkunas and James
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  Seifart announced that MicroStrategy is expected to
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  enter into the NASDAQ 100 later this month on December 23rd.
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  Quote. MicroStrategy will likely enter
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  the NASDAQ 100 index on December 23rd, and we expect net buying
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  of at least 2.1 billion in shares by ETFs to flow equal to
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  about 20% of daily volume. Quote.
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  Joining the S&P 500 will be tougher because of a lack of
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  profit, though an accounting rule change surrounding Bitcoin
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  valuations could make MicroStrategy eligible in 2025.
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  Net buying of 2.1 billion would be an added boost to MSTR, which
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  has already outperformed most major stocks and also Bitcoin
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  this year, up 450% year to date at the time of writing.
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  MicroStrategy, powered by its relentless Bitcoin acquisition
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  strategy, has seen its stocks skyrocket to new all time high
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  this year for the first time since March 1022.
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  March 10th, 2000 MicroStrategy has already acquired 170,000
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  bitcoins since announcing its plan to raise 42 billion to
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  purchase more BTC in late October.
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  Balcuna stated that the official announcement of MSTR getting
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  added to QQQ is expected to come this Friday, December 13th.
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  Quote, again, this is our best estimate of what will go down.
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  But Kunis concluded, we don't work at NASDAQ, FYI.
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  So we're hearing different information.
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  Some people are saying that it's coming this Friday.
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  Some people are saying that it's coming December 23rd.
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  But regardless, I think this is a massive, massive, massive win
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  for MicroStrategy. And just to kind of give you
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  guys something that we covered earlier on this year, central
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  banks of Norway and Switzerland disclose massive MicroStrategy
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  holdings. So they all have indirect
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  exposure to Bitcoin. A lot of companies and actually
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  Saylor explained this when he went on legacy financial media.
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  The reason that a lot of companies and individuals and
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  institutions are buying MicroStrategy instead of spot
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  Bitcoin or the ETFs is because they legally cannot do so, but
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  they still want exposure to Bitcoin.
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  And the way that they do it is by buying MicroStrategy.
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  Now the fact that MicroStrategy is going to be added into the
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  NASDAQ 100, which is going to be massive because I, like I said
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  in the beginning of the show, it's going to allow this kind of
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  like passive investing by people that they just want, they just
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  want something safe and steady. They're not betting on
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  individual companies. They want something, sure.
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  They want something stable. And by MicroStrategy being added
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  into that index of those top 100 companies, a lot of people are
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  going to be getting indirect exposure to Bitcoin whether they
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  like it or not. So Bitcoin is continuing to kind
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  of creep in into the global financial system.
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  And when and if micro strategy is added into the S&P 500, that
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  trend is just going to continue. It's actually going to
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  accelerate, right? So this is the legitimization of
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  Bitcoin as an asset. This is the legitimization of
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  Bitcoin as a strategy for companies as an alternative to
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  cash. And I think the stocks
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  performance this year is an indication of how successful
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  that strategy has been. So anyways, I'm going to pass it
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  on to Doctor Bitcoin. Doctor Bitcoin has been in the
• 7:51
  scene for quite a while, but if you guys have been on Bitcoin
• 7:55
  Twitter, he goes by the name. I have to get his X account
• 7:59
  right or else I'm going to Butch.
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  He goes by the name of Doctor Bitcoin MD on X.
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  If you guys are part of the Bitcoin X community, you know
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  who this man is and he's in a suit.
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  I was just as surprised. I had to check his verification.
• 8:15
  I had to ask for his ID and Social Security number.
• 8:17
  So I did KYC him. I checked his identity.
• 8:20
  He is who he says he is, Doctor Bitcoin MD.
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  Welcome to the show my friend. Thanks for having me, it was a
• 8:28
  very thorough search. I'm very impressed with your
• 8:31
  KYCAML abilities man. Yeah, I wouldn't have let you
• 8:35
  come on the show without a thorough KYC.
• 8:39
  You know, that's just totally part of Bitcoin culture and what
• 8:42
  we're all about here at Simply Bitcoin.
• 8:44
  That's a bad dad joke, by the way.
• 8:46
  But anyways. Users don't know this but Nico
• 8:50
  tested me by forcing me to post 5 different shit posts about
• 8:55
  different topics and testing to see if it really fit the
• 8:58
  criteria for doctor Bitcoin MD posts a. 100% So man, what's
• 9:04
  your take on this? You know you're wearing a suit,
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  so I'm assuming you're going to give us a really good
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  perspective on a MicroStrategy added being added to the NASDAQ
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  100. Apparently this is a huge deal.
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  I had my father-in-law texting me about it telling me that I
• 9:20
  was like, Oh my God, this is this is huge.
• 9:23
  So what's your perspective on this?
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  The things that stand out to me while I was doing research about
• 9:27
  this this morning was this idea of people getting by just
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  passively investing. They're getting indirect
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  exposure to Bitcoin, right? And I, and I really believe
• 9:38
  that's a one way street, right? Like once you open that door,
• 9:42
  you don't go back just because of the return, just because of
• 9:46
  number go up technology. So what's your, what's your take
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  on MicroStrategy being added to the NASDAQ 100 later on this
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  month? I think it's just another check
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  on the progress for Bitcoin. We've crossed a Rubicon now
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  where Bitcoin has entered the center stage for all sorts of
• 10:14
  different bubbles that are now coalescing around this topic.
• 10:19
  So just last year at Bitcoin Nashville, we had the now
• 10:24
  president-elect give a speech on Bitcoin and RFK Junior also give
• 10:28
  a speech on Bitcoin. So it's definitely in the world
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  of politics. Now we're seeing it in the
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  corporate world cross a different threshold as well,
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  specifically with micro strategy.
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  I think what Taylor is doing now is going to be looked at in
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  history books. 102 hundred, 500 years from now, people will talk
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  about the the gall, the gumption to do what he's done,
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  considering the position he was in, and to execute with
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  fearlessness and courage and conviction.
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  What he's done is put Bitcoin into the hands of people that
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  would have never interacted with it in the first place, both in
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  terms of eyeballs but also their wallets.
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  People like my grandparents, my uncles and aunts who have always
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  pushed against holding Bitcoin itself.
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  They might have been interested when a Bitcoin ETF came about,
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  but now they don't even have to think about it in some sense
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  because they have tons of index funds.
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  And the same is true of institutions that hold a lot of
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  index funds. So we crossed the Rubicon here
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  where it's a one way door. There's no turning back here.
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  And this is something that we've all been thinking about for a
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  while. If you've been on Bitcoin
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  Twitter for a while, we've we've been talking about these days in
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  a theoretical sense, like 01 day, this might happen.
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  We might have a speculative attack on the dollar because XY
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  and Z might happen and it's playing out exactly like we
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  imagined. And even better in some sense,
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  because you have someone like Michael Saylor, who has a
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  reputation standing in that corporate world leading the
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  charge. And I think that has been a
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  lightning rod for a lot of the corporate and institutional
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  adoption. And you're only going to see
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  that continue because once MicroStrategy finds success
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  taking that route, which they clearly have, once they make it
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  into a top 500, top 100 companies and other companies
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  that are sitting on large cash reserves are looking over to see
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  what they're doing, you better bet there are going to be
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  copycats. And once there are copycats,
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  there's just a flood into Bitcoin and we just, the
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  flywheel is in effect. There's no stopping it.
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  A. 100 percent, 100% agree with with your perspective right
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  there. This is unstoppable.
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  The train is You better get on the train or you get left
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  behind. It's as simple as that.
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  Everyone gets Bitcoin at the price they deserve.
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  I think Microsoft's decision yesterday was an incorrect one.
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  I think they're going to regret it a couple years from now and
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  they're going to end up buying Bitcoin at a much higher price.
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  So yeah, I, I 100% agree. I think, you know, it, it this,
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  this trend is going to continue. I still see like I, I perceive,
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  you know, I could always be wrong, but I perceive that we
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  still have many, many months of bull market left and it's very,
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  it's going to be extremely exciting for Microsoft,
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  MicroStrategy shareholders, Bitcoin owners, Bitcoin people
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  that are have it, have Bitcoin in self custody.
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  So I think this party in 2025 is going to be awesome.
• 13:51
  And one of the things that I tweeted out this morning is the,
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  the returns in 2016 were 125%. The returns for 2024 so far have
• 14:02
  been 125%. The returns in 2017, which was
• 14:07
  the year after the halving, which was historically when
• 14:10
  Bitcoin tends to perform the best was it was it was 20X in
• 14:15
  2017. Now am I saying we're going to
• 14:18
  get a 20X in 2025? I I don't think so.
• 14:21
  And that would be insane and melt faces if it does.
• 14:24
  But you know, the larger the law of big number, the law of big
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  numbers comes into play. It's a lot harder to move as
• 14:30
  Bitcoin continues to grow and market cap.
• 14:33
  However, I am getting 2016 vibes.
• 14:36
  I am getting 2017 vibes. I'm not getting 2020-2021 vibes.
• 14:41
  And I think a lot of people still have PTSD from those from
• 14:47
  that bull market of 2021 because a lot of people were let down.
• 14:50
  A lot of people had higher expectations.
• 14:53
  What I see the general consensus within the Bitcoin community now
• 14:57
  is we have lower expectations. So with all the positive things
• 15:01
  going on, whether it's the institutional acceptance and
• 15:05
  adoption of Bitcoin, the regulatory environment, 40X
• 15:09
  lightning goes, whether it's the regulatory environment, you know
• 15:13
  you I played you guys a video of the president elect's son
• 15:16
  talking about the importance of Bitcoin.
• 15:18
  What makes Bitcoin different on yesterday's video, you have the
• 15:22
  president wishing Bitcoin happy birthday, congratulating
• 15:25
  bitcoiners on 100K. We're going to read you guys an
• 15:28
  article today where part of the president's goal is to get
• 15:33
  Bitcoin to 150 K earlier on in his administration.
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  Like that is nuts. That is gnarly like you couldn't
• 15:39
  you couldn't imagine that in a million years.
• 15:41
  So you have all these things falling together, the nation
• 15:44
  state adoption as well. You had Russia announced that
• 15:47
  they're looking into making Bitcoin a strategic reserve
• 15:50
  asset and we're heading into the year after the halving year,
• 15:54
  which tends to be the parabola year.
• 15:57
  So I think things are going to get crazy.
• 15:59
  I think things are going to get wild and Bitcoin tends to do the
• 16:02
  exact opposite of what everybody is expecting it to do.
• 16:07
  And of course, starting in 2025, me and Opti will start wearing
• 16:12
  suits moving forward as Bitcoin continues to become mainstream.
• 16:17
  And we we start to have to become, you know, financial
• 16:20
  analysts and stuff and we'll wear ties and suits and, you
• 16:24
  know, all that stuff. What do you think, Opti?
• 16:27
  Yeah, I'm OK with it. My mom would be really happy
• 16:32
  with me wearing a suit, probably.
• 16:34
  So yeah, I'm OK. With that, it would be super
• 16:36
  legit. It would be.
• 16:37
  Super. Yeah, well, people would take us
• 16:38
  more legit. I mean.
• 16:40
  Are we going down the Andrew Tate route?
• 16:42
  No, no, no, we're not gonna get fitted suits.
• 16:45
  We're gonna. Get suit.
• 16:46
  But those aren't just fitted suits.
• 16:48
  We're gonna get classic draping suits.
• 16:49
  Those are like extremely fitted. Suits, yeah, yeah.
• 16:53
  Anyways, anyways, that enough, enough of fashion talk here.
• 16:58
  My take on this, I think, I think the real signal here is,
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  and I've been saying this and I mean it, it does feel kind of
• 17:06
  harsh when I say it, but I think even Saylor would say it himself
• 17:10
  that MicroStrategy was kind of like a zombie company until he
• 17:15
  adopted Bitcoin. If you guys look at the stock,
• 17:17
  you know, he had, he was part of the, the Internet bubble, you
• 17:20
  know, the, the, the early 2000 stock bubble and then it crashed
• 17:25
  and went absolutely sideways and was pretty much dead in regards
• 17:29
  to stock price. And then he started did to, you
• 17:31
  know, research Bitcoin and Bitcoin has been freaking, you
• 17:36
  know, rocket fuel for its stock. And now he's been putting on a
• 17:39
  master class for everyone else to kind of follow suit.
• 17:42
  It's still interesting that no one is following Michael
• 17:45
  Saylor's micro strategy strategy yet, although we are hearing a
• 17:48
  lot of rumble. Well, actually, let me take that
• 17:50
  back. We have seen some people follow,
• 17:52
  but we haven't seen the top corporations in the world
• 17:55
  follow. And obviously these
• 17:57
  conversations are happening right now.
• 17:59
  And I think micro strategy, strategy being added to the QQQ,
• 18:02
  you know, top 100 NASDAQ companies, I think that is one
• 18:06
  of those like defining moments of like Bitcoin maturing and the
• 18:10
  Bitcoin huddle strategy being a successful strategy.
• 18:14
  And now everyone is going to have to take notice.
• 18:17
  Like literally micro strategy got to the QQQ just because of
• 18:21
  the flywheel of adding Bitcoin to their balance sheet.
• 18:24
  Now everyone has to take that seriously.
• 18:27
  And then the second point is kind of what Doc and and you
• 18:30
  were saying goes like now anyone that has exposure to an index
• 18:35
  fund has indirect exposure to Bitcoin.
• 18:37
  And I think more people are going.
• 18:39
  And then first of all, it would be very interesting if we could
• 18:42
  get fact checked on like how many people actually do have
• 18:45
  exposure to the QQQ. And then that's, you know, a, a
• 18:48
  stepping stone into more people adopting Bitcoin.
• 18:51
  Obviously this is kind of just like a, a transitory step, I
• 18:56
  guess, you know, a baby step into Bitcoin.
• 18:59
  Yeah, exactly. That's the part.
• 19:00
  That's the part of like where it got my attention the most,
• 19:04
  right, which is the Trojan horse aspect of it is fascinating to
• 19:09
  me, right? The kind of passive investing,
• 19:12
  the it's like you can imagine that there's people that have a
• 19:16
  negative outlook on Bitcoin, but you can bet that they have
• 19:22
  exposure to the QQQ or you can bet that they have exposure to
• 19:26
  the NASDAQ 100. Well, bro, you have exposure to
• 19:29
  Bitcoin now, you know, whether you realize it or not.
• 19:32
  So it's kind of like this Trojan horse and it's further
• 19:35
  legitimizing Bitcoin in the eyes of institutional investors.
• 19:40
  And it's further, you know, increasing the prestige and the
• 19:44
  credibility of MicroStrategy, which is like, let's be honest,
• 19:48
  guys like, like, which is essentially acting like a
• 19:50
  Bitcoin index fund because of the, the, the, the, the quantity
• 19:54
  of Bitcoin that they hold. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's a
• 19:57
  massive deal. And if they're able to get on
• 19:59
  the S&P 500 that that that's another massive deal as well.
• 20:03
  Because again, how many people have exposure to the S&P 500,
• 20:08
  right? Like how many people have
• 20:09
  exposure to just these index funds?
• 20:12
  You know, they want that safe return of six, 8% a year and now
• 20:16
  they have exposure to Bitcoin like that's that to me is
• 20:19
  absolutely crazy. Now, to be fair, is this real
• 20:23
  exposure to Bitcoin? No, this is this simply Bitcoin
• 20:26
  real exposure to Bitcoin is spot Bitcoin in self custody.
• 20:30
  However, like Opti was saying earlier it, it does function
• 20:34
  like kind of like a Trojan horse, right gets your foot in
• 20:36
  the door. It gets you asking questions if
• 20:39
  you're getting if you're starting to benefit from number
• 20:42
  go up technology, you know you're going to start to ask
• 20:44
  questions on what it is that you're holding.
• 20:47
  We all came here for the money, right.
• 20:49
  Anyone that tells you otherwise is, is like maybe that 1% of
• 20:53
  people are telling you the truth, but the vast majority of
• 20:56
  people that got into Bitcoin, they came here for the money.
• 20:58
  But we have a very famous saying in the industry.
• 21:00
  It's like we came for the money, we stayed for the revolution,
• 21:03
  right? So I do believe it's a step in
• 21:06
  the right direction for micro strategy for Bitcoin, for the
• 21:11
  industry as a whole and the further legitimization of
• 21:14
  Bitcoin as an asset in the eyes of these massive institutions
• 21:18
  and nation states alike, right? So it's very exciting stuff.
• 21:21
  Anyways, guys, before we start the show, I do want to give a
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  We have tons to talk about. Let's check it out.
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• 25:40
  At the time of recording, the Bitcoin price is 100 a hundred
• 25:44
  three 100,340 dollars 360 dollars block height a hundred
• 25:48
  874,283 sats per dollar under 1996 market cap 1.99 trillion
• 25:56
  Bitcoin versus gold market cap 10.56% percentage issued 94.26%
• 26:03
  decline from all time high -3.3% realized monetary inflation 1.1%
• 26:10
  and 1.16%. In the grand scheme of things.
• 26:13
  We are just getting started anyways.
• 26:16
  Rodger VIR went on Tucker Carlson tonight yesterday.
• 26:22
  We have the clip for you guys about a three minute clip of the
• 26:24
  entire interview. Now, Rodger VIR is a very
• 26:27
  unpopular figure here within the Bitcoin community.
• 26:30
  Obviously this is one of the people that pushed Bitcoin Cash
• 26:34
  hard and he attacked a lot of Bitcoiners for not getting
• 26:38
  behind Bitcoin Cash. Bitcoin Cash would have been a
• 26:41
  terrible idea to increase the block the the the block size.
• 26:46
  Because if you increase the block size, you you increase the
• 26:51
  barrier to entry for people running nodes.
• 26:54
  And if you increase the barrier to entry, making it more
• 26:56
  expensive, that means less nodes.
• 26:58
  Less nodes means less decentralization.
• 27:01
  Less decentralization is bad for Bitcoin.
• 27:04
  What makes Bitcoin different and unique compared to all the other
• 27:08
  cryptocurrencies is it's decentralization.
• 27:12
  So leave Bitcoin as is. Don't touch it.
• 27:15
  I'm a big fan of ossification. Maybe you'll hate me for that,
• 27:18
  but that's where I kind of stand on things.
• 27:20
  Don't fix what ain't broken, and obviously Bitcoin ain't broken.
• 27:24
  So anyways, yeah, Roger VER very unpopular figure for doing that
• 27:29
  for pushing Bitcoin cash, wrecking a lot of people in the
• 27:31
  process. We all know how that ended.
• 27:34
  Clearly Bitcoin, the OG Bitcoin, the original Bitcoin V Bitcoin
• 27:39
  was the winner of the fork wars. But if you live through the fork
• 27:42
  wars, it wasn't so certain at the time.
• 27:45
  Why the Bitcoin cash hash rate? They artificially because Jihan
• 27:49
  Wu Jihan Wu was the official, the original founder of Bit
• 27:52
  Maine, which was one of the and is still is one of the largest
• 27:57
  ASIC manufacturers in the world. And between him and Roger, they
• 28:00
  had a tremendous amount of Bitcoin.
• 28:02
  And what they were able to do is that they were able to
• 28:05
  artificially not only pump the price of Bitcoin cash as it
• 28:10
  relates to Bitcoin, but also, but also increase the hash rate
• 28:16
  artificially of of the Bitcoin cash network to the point that
• 28:21
  there was two times during the fork wars that the hash rate of
• 28:25
  Bitcoin cash overtook the hash rate of Bitcoin, meaning that
• 28:30
  there was a short period of time and this was all artificially.
• 28:33
  Now we know this in in hindsight, but there is a point
• 28:36
  in time where two or three times where the Bitcoin Cash hash rate
• 28:40
  was higher than bitcoins, meaning that the Bitcoin Cash
• 28:43
  was theoretically more computationally secured than
• 28:46
  Bitcoin. May you can make an argument
• 28:48
  that it theoretically had a higher value proposition at the
• 28:51
  time. Now we know that was all
• 28:54
  bullshit. They did that artificially.
• 28:56
  They pumped the price artificially, they pumped the
• 28:59
  hash rate artificially, and they burned a ton of Bitcoin in the
• 29:04
  process doing all of this right. And both Jihan and Roger, I'm
• 29:09
  sure have a lot of less Bitcoin today than they would have had
• 29:13
  if they just would have stuck to Bitcoin.
• 29:16
  Anyways, all that being said, I had to give a giant preface.
• 29:19
  There is some interesting things that were talked about during
• 29:23
  the interview that Roger had with Tucker Carlson.
• 29:28
  And one of those things that they were talking about, which
• 29:30
  is something that we covered on simply and I believe this is
• 29:33
  part of the Operation Choke .2 point O that we just lived
• 29:38
  through for the last 3 1/2 years that forced the hands of
• 29:41
  Bitcoiners to get behind the Republican Party and Trump.
• 29:46
  Because I don't think Bitcoiners would have gone in political if
• 29:48
  we weren't forced to. But Roger Ruhr was one of the
• 29:53
  people that were targeted. And essentially what happened
• 29:57
  was that he gave, he gave up his US citizenship it back in 2014.
• 30:04
  And he was just charged. It was like this year for
• 30:09
  essentially not paying taxes on some of the taxes that he owed
• 30:13
  from that era. Which like, if you think about
• 30:16
  it, like, essentially what they're trying to do is they're
• 30:18
  trying to make an example out of Roger.
• 30:20
  And because they see the writing on the wall and they're saying,
• 30:22
  like, listen, it doesn't matter whether you give up your US
• 30:24
  citizenship. It doesn't matter where you are
• 30:26
  in the world. We can find you and we will put
• 30:30
  you in a box if you don't pay your taxes, it doesn't matter
• 30:33
  whether you give up your citizenship or not.
• 30:36
  And this just kind of reminds me of the theory from the book The
• 30:39
  Sovereign Individual, right? And they make that theory in
• 30:41
  that book, they make the case that essentially what you're
• 30:44
  going to start to see is you're going to start to see a mass
• 30:47
  exodus of people leaving countries that don't have
• 30:52
  favorable tax jurisdiction or they don't have favorable
• 30:55
  business regulation because it's so easy to do so in the
• 30:59
  information age, right? You can literally just pick up
• 31:02
  your laptop and go. If you're taking self custody,
• 31:04
  you can bring your wealth with you and you can go to another
• 31:07
  country that treats you best. We saw a little like example of
• 31:11
  that during the pandemic where you had a mass exodus of people
• 31:15
  leaving New York and California, going to Texas and Florida.
• 31:19
  You see a lot of people in Europe leaving Europe.
• 31:22
  Going to Dubai with Dubai has zero capital gains tax.
• 31:26
  And you see a lot of these European countries react with
• 31:29
  trying to implement an exit tax, you know, and they're trying to
• 31:32
  stop people from leaving, right? So I believe that part of the
• 31:36
  motivation from the US government to go after Rodger is
• 31:39
  to make an example out of him and say, listen, it doesn't
• 31:42
  matter whether you gave up your citizenship 10 years ago.
• 31:46
  It doesn't matter even if you're not in the United States.
• 31:48
  It doesn't even matter if your businesses are not in the United
• 31:51
  States. We will make an we.
• 31:53
  We can get you if we want to. Right now, I'm not trying to
• 31:56
  justify anything that Rodger did.
• 31:58
  I'm not very familiar with the case, but I believe that it was
• 32:03
  politically motivated after everything we've seen, you know,
• 32:06
  over the last 3 1/2 years. Anyways, guys, so here's a clip
• 32:10
  from the interview. I'm not going to play the entire
• 32:12
  thing. But let's check it out.
• 32:14
  You are being extradited from Spain, an ally in Western
• 32:18
  Europe, a NATO country, to the United States by the US Justice
• 32:21
  Department to face life in prison 109 years for tax
• 32:26
  evasion. You're not AUS citizen.
• 32:29
  The period that you're being charged with evading American
• 32:32
  taxes, you are not AUS citizen. And so whenever I see a story
• 32:37
  that says the US government is extraditing somebody for tax
• 32:40
  evasion to put them in prison for 109 years, my first thought
• 32:44
  is maybe it's not really about the taxes.
• 32:47
  Maybe there's something more to this story.
• 32:49
  Could there be another reason the US government is angry at
• 32:53
  you and wants to put you in prison for the rest of your
• 32:55
  life? Yeah, to be honest, I think
• 32:57
  they're not really angry about taxes at all.
• 32:58
  I think they're just angry about my lack of obedience and, and
• 33:01
  lack of, you know, kissing their ring.
• 33:05
  I was the first person in the entire world to start investing
• 33:07
  in the Bitcoin ecosystem and investing in businesses that
• 33:09
  made it easy for people to use Bitcoin as money and as cash for
• 33:12
  people all over the world. And I was promoting it since
• 33:15
  2011 is hey, stop using the US dollar, stop using EUR, stop
• 33:18
  using yen, start using Bitcoin. We have an alternative in which
• 33:21
  each individual anywhere on the planet can be in charge of their
• 33:24
  own money completely without needing permission from any
• 33:26
  politician or any government anywhere in the world.
• 33:28
  And when you're a government that loves controlling people
• 33:30
  through the control of the money supply, that's very, very
• 33:33
  threatening to their control of the world.
• 33:34
  So of course they didn't like that at all.
• 33:36
  And I knew that this sort of thing was dangerous.
• 33:38
  And I thought the safest path for me would be to not be AUS
• 33:42
  citizen. So in 2014, I renounced my US
• 33:44
  citizenship and became a, you know, a citizen of the world
• 33:48
  effectively. But my new nationality is a
• 33:50
  Saint Kitts, which is a wonderful little island in the
• 33:52
  Caribbean. And I thought that that would be
• 33:54
  safe for me and I could promote Bitcoin from from there and
• 33:57
  obey, even though I may disagree with plenty of laws, I do my
• 34:00
  best to obey them because I know when you're and advocating for
• 34:04
  things that change the world, governments don't like that and
• 34:07
  they can come after you. So I I told all my tax attorneys
• 34:09
  and everybody else, we have to do everything perfect.
• 34:11
  So there's no room for the US government to give me a hard
• 34:13
  time about any of this. And more than a decade after I
• 34:16
  had already renounced my US citizenship and just a couple of
• 34:19
  weeks after I published a book on the hijacking of Bitcoin, how
• 34:22
  it no longer works is peer-to-peer cash for the world.
• 34:24
  And it's been morphed into to something that's just a digital
• 34:27
  asset that people are speculating on the price on,
• 34:29
  rather than something that can compete with the US dollar and
• 34:32
  the euro and the yen for use as currency around the world.
• 34:34
  Suddenly, right after my book it's published that exposes how
• 34:37
  people claiming to work for intelligence agencies hijack
• 34:40
  Bitcoin to do that. Suddenly I get arrested and
• 34:42
  tossed in jail in Spain and trying to be extradited to face
• 34:46
  more than 100 years in prison. I'm 45 today.
• 34:49
  I I think my odds of being alive with conventional technology in
• 34:53
  109 years from now aren't aren't looking too good So effectively
• 34:56
  to die in prison is what they want because they're so upset
• 34:58
  about the things I've been saying and the way all.
• 35:02
  Right. I'm going to leave it at that.
• 35:03
  And you know, there's a lot of things that I don't agree with
• 35:07
  Roger on as a Bitcoiner. But I will say this, I'm
• 35:12
  starting to see a pattern, OK? We had CZ arrested.
• 35:16
  We had Arthur Hayes arrested. We had Roger Burr arrested.
• 35:20
  You had privacy developers arrested.
• 35:24
  Simultaneously, you have banks like TD Bank that just got a
• 35:29
  record fine for the amount of money that they laundered.
• 35:33
  And there was no one arrested that their executive team was
• 35:35
  not arrested. We just lived through Operation
• 35:39
  Choke .2 point O and more things continue to come to light.
• 35:44
  You know, and, and me and Opti were concerned at various points
• 35:48
  just because we are a Bitcoin media business and we are a
• 35:51
  Bitcoin business based out of the United States.
• 35:53
  And, and I, you know, as much as I, I disagree with Roger on, on
• 35:58
  a variety of things, like his opinion on, you know, Bitcoin
• 36:02
  cash and, and scaling and all that stuff.
• 36:07
  I, I, I believe the arrest of Rodger Burr was politically
• 36:10
  motivated. I mean, if it, if it just
• 36:12
  happened by itself, I would say no.
• 36:16
  Like, you know, this is one thing, but the fact that it all
• 36:20
  happened around the time that CZ was arrested, around the time
• 36:25
  the Samurai guys were arrested, around the time the Tornado Cash
• 36:28
  guys were arrested, The fact that it was happening all around
• 36:32
  that same time tells me that it was sending a message more than
• 36:38
  more than anything else. Now, that being said, I don't
• 36:41
  know the specifics of the case. I don't have a law or tax
• 36:46
  background. I don't know what they're
• 36:48
  claiming or what he did. But here you have another
• 36:52
  example of essentially this guy potentially serving his entire
• 37:00
  life in prison. And then this is one of the guys
• 37:04
  that has was promoting Bitcoin in the very early days.
• 37:08
  And I do agree with Rodger in the sense that, yes, there are
• 37:12
  some things that Bitcoin is going to be very unpopular with
• 37:16
  governments for sure. I, I 100% agree with that.
• 37:21
  You know, the way that he explained it in the beginning,
• 37:23
  the reality is that governments get a tremendous amount of.
• 37:27
  We have doctor, Doctor Jack Cruz in the chat, by the way, You
• 37:30
  should definitely check out his keynote, which we posted on X
• 37:35
  from adopting Bitcoin. Doctor Cruz says these
• 37:38
  prosecutions remind me of exactly what happened with the
• 37:41
  Chicago 8 when Ramsey Hunt and Jordan Mitchell charged the
• 37:45
  change the DOJ rules in 1968 and 1969.
• 37:49
  Yeah. So I mean, again, I may disagree
• 37:53
  with Rodger, but as a Bitcoiner, I'm not a fan of Bitcoiners
• 37:58
  getting arrested, right? I'm just not a fan of it.
• 38:01
  And why is it that our industry continues to get targeted and
• 38:05
  the traditional financial industry gets fines?
• 38:10
  Why the double standard? That is the exact opposite of
• 38:12
  what justice is supposed. It's like the equal laws of
• 38:15
  justice. The justice the, the lady has a
• 38:17
  a blindfold and she's holding a scale.
• 38:20
  It's supposed to be fair. That's that scale is like going
• 38:24
  like the, the scale that has the feel on it.
• 38:27
  It's just like tipping to one side like it's bullshit.
• 38:31
  So anyways, that that's, that's my take on this is that I think
• 38:36
  that this is politically motivated.
• 38:39
  He he could have done. I don't know what the the
• 38:42
  details of the case are, like I said, but you know, look at all
• 38:47
  the things that they did with the various banks, right, with
• 38:51
  operation choke .2 point O how they specifically told banks to
• 38:56
  stop onboarding, quote UN quote crypto businesses.
• 38:59
  And this was all done opaquely. We were not supposed to hear
• 39:03
  about this, right? So like the attack from
• 39:09
  Elizabeth Warren, capitalizing on the tragedy that happened in
• 39:13
  Israel, and then basically using the legacy media to try to
• 39:17
  convince the American people that terrorists were using
• 39:21
  Bitcoin to launder money. And then it was discovered that
• 39:25
  the vast majority of money laundering is done doing the
• 39:28
  traditional financial system. But that didn't stop the FinCEN
• 39:31
  from introducing even more laws and regulations to kind of go
• 39:36
  after the industry. So maybe they're right about
• 39:41
  what Rodger did. I just after what I've lived
• 39:44
  through as a bitcoiner, as someone who owns a business in
• 39:47
  the industry over the last 3 1/2 years, forgive me if I don't
• 39:50
  believe you. I, I just, that's where I'm at
• 39:52
  right now personally. So anyways, Doctor, Bitcoin,
• 39:57
  you've been in, man, you've been in this industry just as long as
• 40:00
  we have, man, maybe if not longer.
• 40:02
  Roger has done some, you know, some very unpopular things
• 40:07
  within the Bitcoin community. But at the same time, you know,
• 40:11
  I'm looking at this and I can't help but to think this is, you
• 40:15
  know, this is criminally motivated.
• 40:17
  I mean, this is politically motivated.
• 40:20
  So there's a couple points to touch on here.
• 40:23
  I actually think it's a delicate topic that's worth expanding on
• 40:26
  here. First and foremost, I do think
• 40:29
  when you deal with nascent technologies and networks,
• 40:35
  whether it was the Internet of the 90s and prior or Bitcoin
• 40:39
  now, there's usually a lag when it comes to regulation.
• 40:45
  It takes regulatory bodies a while to figure out what exactly
• 40:49
  they're dealing with and how best to deal with it.
• 40:54
  And part of it is reasonable in their mind for things like
• 41:00
  investor protections and, you know, trying to make sure people
• 41:04
  are just not outright fraud, frauding and scamming people.
• 41:08
  So trying to steal man, their, their side of things, that's
• 41:13
  what they're attempting to do. Now, in reality, what happens is
• 41:19
  regulatory bodies end up putting a giant blanket over an entire
• 41:23
  industry, and they start taking a scattergun approach where you
• 41:29
  don't know when the next domino is gonna fall and who it's gonna
• 41:33
  be. And we're all just kind of
• 41:35
  waiting and we're surprised at who it is, and we don't really
• 41:38
  understand why they. Yeah, we did.
• 41:50
  We lose them. Yeah, we might have, might have,
• 41:53
  might have, might have dropped. Anyway, Doctor Bitcoin, you, you
• 42:04
  were in, you were in the, you were in the matrix for a little
• 42:06
  bit. All.
• 42:17
  Right, let's let's, let's keep. I'll hit him in the private
• 42:19
  chat. Yeah, let's keep rolling it.
• 42:20
  Let's keep rolling it. We'll we'll figure out.
• 42:22
  This is a live show after all. Guys.
• 42:24
  Opti, what's your take on on on Roger, man?
• 42:28
  I know he's a very, very divisive figure.
• 42:32
  And within the Bitcoin community, there's a lot of
• 42:34
  things that he did that were not popular with the community, and
• 42:39
  rightly so. But two things could be true at
• 42:43
  the same exact time. Now, again, I don't know the
• 42:49
  exact details of the case. However, I am not blind and I
• 42:53
  kind of do see a little bit of a double standard between how they
• 42:57
  treat people in the traditional finance.
• 42:59
  No banker went to jail for what happened in 2008, bro.
• 43:03
  OK. And that was one of the crimes
• 43:05
  of the century, in my opinion, in terms of the amount kind of
• 43:08
  damage that caused society and then our industry, you know,
• 43:14
  whether it's Ross Ulbricht or, you know, Rodger Ver or, you
• 43:19
  know, other people, it, it seems like it's kind of like, let's
• 43:23
  lock them in a box and lock away the key, bro.
• 43:25
  No matter what it is like, you know, we'll find something, you
• 43:27
  know, we'll find a crime, right? So I'm not, again, I don't know
• 43:31
  the details of the case. I'm not a lawyer.
• 43:33
  I don't have that background. I'm not trying to make excuses
• 43:35
  for him, but I'm not stupid. And I see a pattern here.
• 43:39
  So Opti, what's your take on all this?
• 43:41
  Yeah, well, you know, with the caveat that you just said I'm
• 43:45
  just a dude in a hoodie on YouTube.
• 43:47
  So I do not have the background to really unpack everything.
• 43:51
  But I think considering the context of when this prosecution
• 43:57
  came down, I think it's very obvious that it is political.
• 44:00
  We were covering it all of all last or all all of this year
• 44:03
  rather. And when it happened, we got to
• 44:07
  remember how heated things were getting in the US.
• 44:09
  That was when we were really talking about, well, Nico was
• 44:12
  really saying it all the time, like we might have to leave the
• 44:15
  US. And at that point it did very
• 44:17
  scary for a lot of his bitcoiners in the US.
• 44:19
  We all know now in hindsight that Operation Choke .2 Point O
• 44:22
  was a real thing that they have been trying to stop the adoption
• 44:26
  of Bitcoin and it's very obviously politically motivated.
• 44:30
  They've tried to make an example of Roger ver.
• 44:32
  I don't really like Roger ver. I came in after the block size
• 44:36
  wars like a month or so after, so I really can only look
• 44:40
  backwards. I don't, I don't really know,
• 44:42
  you know, the whole story or rather I didn't experience it in
• 44:45
  real time, but I think it's very clear now that be cash is trash.
• 44:49
  And with that being said, though, I still think that it is
• 44:53
  politically motivated. And look, I I don't want to be
• 44:56
  in Roger's shoes and it's very obvious that they are trying to
• 44:59
  make an example out of him. And so it is very interesting
• 45:02
  where we are right now, especially considering that we
• 45:05
  are seemingly going to get a more pro Bitcoin administration
• 45:09
  in the US. So hopefully we get some we get
• 45:13
  some tailwind on it. And like, not to be specific,
• 45:16
  right, Because I'm not like this isn't the point of simply, and
• 45:18
  now that the election is over, we're going to like completely
• 45:21
  just go away from politics. But like, didn't a specific
• 45:26
  person just get pardoned and like for tax stuff and stuff
• 45:32
  like that? Like, you know, like again, like
• 45:36
  it, it, it's what what bothers me is not the law or because if
• 45:41
  the law is the law, like the law is the law.
• 45:43
  What the, the, what bothers me is that like there's two systems
• 45:47
  of justice that, that, that and then that's not, that's not law,
• 45:52
  right? That's not a legal system.
• 45:54
  That's a hierarchy, right? That's like a that's like
• 45:58
  feudalism, dude. It's like rules for thee, but
• 46:02
  not for me. We're gonna get to make the
• 46:03
  rules, and then we're gonna arbitrarily choose on who we
• 46:07
  choose to enforce these rules that we make and who has to
• 46:11
  follow them. And we don't have to follow
• 46:13
  them, but you have to follow them.
• 46:15
  Like, you know, didn't like the one of the senators from like
• 46:19
  New Jersey get discovered with like wads of cash and gold bars
• 46:25
  in his trunk while simultaneously criticizing
• 46:28
  Naimbu Kele, right. Like, isn't Nancy Pelosi like
• 46:32
  one of the best stock stock traders of all time?
• 46:36
  Like again, like, I'm, I'm not trying to be political or like
• 46:39
  whatever, but it's clear that there's certain people within
• 46:43
  the country that rules don't apply to them like they apply to
• 46:50
  everybody else. And normally we wouldn't talk
• 46:53
  about this type of stuff. However, recently it's been
• 46:58
  affecting our industry. Recently our industry has been
• 47:03
  the one, thank you, Doctor Cruz, Senator Menendez, But recently
• 47:09
  our industry has been the one that has been under the bullseye
• 47:14
  like, and, and so we have to speak up.
• 47:16
  We have to say something. It's not, it's not OK.
• 47:20
  We're joined back by Doctor Bitcoin.
• 47:21
  Doctor, Bitcoin is back. Men, could you continue your
• 47:25
  thoughts? Because it was, it was great
• 47:27
  what you were saying. Yeah.
• 47:29
  First off, I think they're on to me here.
• 47:33
  The second I started talking about that topic, everything
• 47:36
  just shut down. That was bizarre.
• 47:39
  But anyways, I think the point I was trying to hit on is first
• 47:44
  and foremost, I think when it comes to Roger, there's a lot of
• 47:49
  negative sentiment towards him from the Bitcoin community and a
• 47:52
  lot of it is warranted. Earlier I said we were crossing
• 47:58
  the Rubicon. Part of crossing the Rubicon is
• 48:01
  having people that have never interacted with Bitcoin get the
• 48:05
  first taste of what it's like and hear stories, narratives,
• 48:09
  history. And if we are not strong in our
• 48:18
  positions as Bitcoiners and we don't protect the narratives,
• 48:23
  the stories that are being put out there, that's what happens.
• 48:27
  You get Rodger going on Tucker Carlson rather than someone that
• 48:30
  can actually tell the story of Bitcoin and be able to represent
• 48:37
  Bitcoin properly. Now, despite all that, despite
• 48:45
  our feelings for Rodger, I think there is something bigger at
• 48:49
  play here, which is the weaponization of the legal
• 48:54
  apparatus against individuals. Now when it comes to that
• 49:02
  approach, you see that often in 3rd world countries, in
• 49:06
  countries that are dictatorships, but you're seeing
• 49:09
  it a lot more in the US and a lot more in the light than it
• 49:14
  ever used to be, particularly with this last administration.
• 49:19
  You're seeing it angled towards the now president-elect.
• 49:23
  You're seeing it angled towards anyone involved in January 6th.
• 49:29
  You're seeing it angled towards people that are involved in the
• 49:33
  Bitcoin and crypto space, crypto space broadly.
• 49:36
  So when it comes to rules and regulations, if you want to
• 49:40
  steal man, the argument, you would say, OK, these regulatory
• 49:45
  bodies are trying their best to protect investors or protect the
• 49:50
  average person from getting defrauded or getting scammed.
• 49:55
  And there is some merit to that to some extent, right?
• 49:58
  If you look at some of the shit coin happenings over the last
• 50:03
  few weeks, last few years, look at the hawk to a coin right?
• 50:07
  I can't believe I'm saying those words, but should that have ever
• 50:13
  happened? Should that have ever gotten out
• 50:14
  of the bag? Now there's a libertarian side
• 50:17
  of me that thinks, yeah, absolutely.
• 50:19
  You know, if people voluntarily choose to invest in those types
• 50:23
  of things, then it's their loss, right?
• 50:25
  They kind of know what they're getting into.
• 50:27
  But this, this goes to the point of informed consent is like, do
• 50:32
  people really know what they're getting into here?
• 50:35
  I think sometimes they do, and they're gambling, so that's
• 50:38
  perfectly fine. And a lot of times they don't.
• 50:41
  So we all draw a line somewhere, like if someone defrauded your
• 50:45
  grandmother with a phone scam, we'd all be like that person
• 50:49
  should be charged and that that that should be illegal, right?
• 50:52
  So we all draw the line somewhere.
• 50:54
  But where is that line? The problem is for the crypto
• 50:57
  industry, and I'm using crypto specifically here, broader than
• 51:01
  Bitcoin. It's been a very blanket
• 51:03
  approach. So a lot of times when you have
• 51:06
  a new innovation, new technology, you have concentric
• 51:12
  circles of adoption, you have the inner circle, which is the
• 51:16
  the hardcore believers, the cypherpunks in our case, the
• 51:20
  types, the libertarian types, the gold bugs that were
• 51:23
  converted to Bitcoin. And these people adopt it
• 51:27
  because they need it or they feel like they are drawn to it
• 51:31
  in a, in a very ideological manner.
• 51:37
  And then that concentric circle expands to now you look 15 years
• 51:40
  later, we have corporations, we have institutions, we have
• 51:44
  individuals, we have nation States and so on and so forth.
• 51:48
  So for regulatory bodies like the SEC or FINRA or whoever,
• 51:52
  when they look at this, they're trying to deal with an animal
• 51:56
  that has already escaped its cage.
• 52:00
  And their approach is just a scattergun approach.
• 52:04
  Find targets where you can get them and try to take them down.
• 52:07
  So what do they do? They go after people that are
• 52:13
  loud. They go after people that make
• 52:15
  themselves heard. And sometimes, often times,
• 52:19
  these are people that deserve to, you know, answer some
• 52:23
  questions as to what what they've done and whether it was
• 52:26
  above board. But often times it's a
• 52:29
  weaponization of a political and legal apparatus.
• 52:32
  And I think that's part of what you're seeing here.
• 52:36
  And I want to be, I want to be cognizant of that.
• 52:38
  And I want to warn Bitcoiners not to be too black or white.
• 52:41
  I think a lot of Bitcoiners, myself included, your, your
• 52:45
  instinct is to either say it's Roger, he kind of deserves it
• 52:48
  or, you know, we should fight for Roger because he's getting
• 52:52
  this. And I, I think the answer is
• 52:54
  like right in between is like, he probably deserves some
• 52:59
  sympathy in terms of the what he's going through from a legal
• 53:02
  perspective, but he doesn't deserve sympathy in terms of the
• 53:06
  narratives that he spun and the damage he's caused to Bitcoin.
• 53:11
  So part of that is getting the narratives right With the block
• 53:14
  size wars. We have very little information
• 53:17
  on that that we can share with the public.
• 53:18
  We have a great book called The Block Size Wars, But other than
• 53:22
  that and a few podcasts and a few conversations, I think most
• 53:24
  people that come into the space, they see Roger Rehr and they see
• 53:28
  him talking about Bitcoin. They have no idea about the
• 53:32
  history. They don't know anything.
• 53:34
  So that guy goes on Tucker, that's credibility.
• 53:37
  Like it's a boomer generation or anyone older than 30.
• 53:41
  They're looking at Tucker Carlson, They're looking at some
• 53:44
  guy on there that's talking about Bitcoin.
• 53:45
  They're like, all right, cool. This guy seems like he knows
• 53:47
  what he's talking about. They're going to look him up and
• 53:49
  all of a sudden they own Bitcoin Cash and five years later
• 53:52
  they're like, wait, what happened?
• 53:53
  I thought I owned Bitcoin. Yep.
• 53:55
  And that's seriously damaging. So how do we, how do we address
• 54:00
  that? I think it's a very delicate
• 54:02
  situation, but you have to be able to approach it in a way
• 54:06
  that addresses the different avenues of the conversation in a
• 54:11
  reasonable way. I think, I think 22, both things
• 54:14
  could be true at the same time. And I think it's really
• 54:16
  important to like separate like the two.
• 54:21
  It's like, yes, as a Bitcoin community, we're not fans of
• 54:23
  Roger, but I'm also not a fan of the US government persecuting
• 54:28
  another Bitcoiner that has different to put it nicely.
• 54:33
  I don't even know how to put it nicely actually, But I'm not a
• 54:38
  fan of the US government persecuting us or persecuting
• 54:41
  our industry, right? Like, This is why I bring, This
• 54:44
  is why I put CZ in the mix. This is why I put Arthur Hayes
• 54:47
  in the mix, right? Like CZ, you know, built one of
• 54:50
  the biggest altcoin exchanges on the face of the planet.
• 54:55
  However, why is it that when banks do the exact same thing
• 55:00
  they accuse CZ of, they get fines?
• 55:04
  How come when you know exchanges do it like we get locked in a
• 55:08
  box you like? How come when you know, Ross did
• 55:11
  what he did, he got a triple life sentence?
• 55:13
  Like Roger is facing a a life sentence essentially like that
• 55:19
  is nuts. And then simultaneously, you
• 55:21
  know, I'm not going to repeat myself and beat a dead horse.
• 55:24
  But it's like simultaneously there's certain people in
• 55:28
  government and certain figures and certain politicians not to
• 55:31
  name any names that are that have done and do did do the
• 55:35
  exact same things, but they have absolutely no accountability
• 55:40
  whatsoever. So my issue my issue.
• 55:44
  Here. Sorry, Nico.
• 55:45
  It's also important to note here, they're not going after
• 55:49
  him for securities fraud. They're not going after him for
• 55:51
  embezzlement. They're not going after him for
• 55:53
  fraud. They're going after him for
• 55:55
  taxes. So it it seems like they're
• 56:00
  finding any way to pin something on him, and that seems like the
• 56:03
  most reasonable route for them. For sure.
• 56:06
  And it was 10 years ago. It was 10 years ago, right.
• 56:09
  And again, I'm not, I'm not saying that what Roger did, I
• 56:14
  don't know and I don't have a legal background to give you an
• 56:17
  assumption of the case. What I am picking attention on
• 56:22
  is there's a pattern here that is very noticeable.
• 56:27
  Opti was the first one that was like looking at me on the show
• 56:30
  and it's like Nico, like stop being a schmuck, bro.
• 56:32
  They're obviously targeting us. And I continue to give the
• 56:36
  benefit of the doubt until one day I essentially broke on air
• 56:41
  and I went all the all the other direction.
• 56:44
  And that day was the moment they locked the samurai wallet, guys,
• 56:49
  in the moment they arrested the samurai guys, I was like, no,
• 56:53
  no, no, no, no. And I remember, and I remember
• 56:56
  tweeting out, I said, guys, honestly, it's probably not a
• 57:01
  good idea that Biden wins another term.
• 57:04
  And the tweet went viral because everyone was thinking the same
• 57:08
  thing, right? And then, of course, that
• 57:10
  created a political opportunity for the opposing party to
• 57:15
  capitalize on it. And then that's why Trump made
• 57:18
  Bitcoin part of his campaign, right?
• 57:22
  And so it's, it's, it's kind of like like we didn't want to get
• 57:25
  political. We didn't want it.
• 57:27
  We didn't want any of this. We just wanted to be left alone
• 57:30
  to our own devices to build. You know, we have Bitcoin.
• 57:34
  But it was kind of like you poked us with a stick for so
• 57:37
  long and you kind of forced our hand.
• 57:40
  You forced us to be part of the donor class.
• 57:43
  You force, you forced us to become a political voice.
• 57:47
  You forced us to start inviting some of these politicians to our
• 57:51
  conferences. You forced us into that corner
• 57:54
  by the actions that you have taken.
• 57:57
  And then when we call you out on it, it's just total gaslighting.
• 58:01
  Like, you know, I, I, I'm just that that's my opinion on all
• 58:05
  this. Anyways, guys, we still got to
• 58:06
  get to the news and then we got to talk to Doctor Bitcoin.
• 58:09
  So let's get to it. Here we go.
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  discount all right everybody so let's talk about this crazy,
• 1:00:38
  crazy world we live in I'm going to continue I I have not deleted
• 1:00:43
  this this note for the last week of doing the show because I'm
• 1:00:49
  going to continue to iterate that just to kind of give you
• 1:00:52
  guys an idea right elections have consequences.
• 1:00:56
  We just talked for like 30 minutes about the Roger Vert
• 1:01:01
  case, about Operation Choke Point 2.0, about essentially
• 1:01:05
  what we had to deal with as an industry and as a community for
• 1:01:10
  the last 3 1/2 years due to this current administration.
• 1:01:13
  Now, because of this upcoming elect, because of this election,
• 1:01:18
  because Trump won, you have a pro SEC chair, you have a pro
• 1:01:23
  Bitcoin president. We paid you guys a video of the
• 1:01:26
  president's son talking about Bitcoin yesterday.
• 1:01:30
  You have the you have Howard Lepnick going into the
• 1:01:33
  administration. He's going on Poms podcast
• 1:01:36
  basically saying that he's planning to buy hundreds of
• 1:01:39
  millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin.
• 1:01:41
  Like it's like, it is gnarly. So This is why we'd say
• 1:01:45
  elections have consequences. And one of those consequences
• 1:01:51
  is, and this isn't going to be a legal one or a regulatory thing.
• 1:01:55
  This is going to be something that I just find absolutely
• 1:01:58
  hilarious because this is something that Trump would say.
• 1:02:01
  I mean, he did take credit for Bitcoin hitting 100K after all.
• 1:02:05
  So this shouldn't surprise anybody.
• 1:02:07
  But basically, quote, Trump is going to be very focused on the
• 1:02:12
  price of Bitcoin. It's another stock market for
• 1:02:15
  him, adding that Trump would love for Bitcoin to hit $150,000
• 1:02:20
  in his early presidency. I find that absolutely hilarious
• 1:02:23
  because it was actually like during the Bitcoin conference
• 1:02:27
  that he was like, if you vote for me, I'm going to make you
• 1:02:31
  very rich, and Bitcoin is going to hit $100,000.
• 1:02:35
  Like he said that, you know, And it was, it was like his Trump
• 1:02:39
  mannerisms and his Trump rhetoric.
• 1:02:41
  But he did say it after all, and I find it hilarious that as soon
• 1:02:45
  as we figured out that he won the election, you know, he like
• 1:02:50
  the price of Bitcoin started pumping now in terms of moving
• 1:02:54
  the Overton window and kind of favorable, like, you know,
• 1:02:58
  regulatory environment. Here's the former S, the CFTC
• 1:03:03
  chair, Chris Giancarlo, and he went on Fox News and he said
• 1:03:09
  some interesting things that we have talked a lot about on
• 1:03:12
  simply. Let's check it out.
• 1:03:13
  Recently climbing more than $100,000.
• 1:03:17
  Per. This is Investors anticipate
• 1:03:20
  Donald Trump will usher in a new era of crypto friendly policies
• 1:03:24
  and legislation during his first 100 days.
• 1:03:26
  What's that mean to you, Chris? John Carlo is the former
• 1:03:29
  chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission under
• 1:03:32
  Donald Trump. Good morning to you.
• 1:03:33
  Thanks for coming in here. There's a treasury document
• 1:03:36
  calls Bitcoin digital gold. We've heard that before.
• 1:03:40
  Okay, that, that's one element. Next one, Elon Musk praising El
• 1:03:45
  Salvador's Empresso crypto reserve.
• 1:03:49
  So that's an interesting relationship.
• 1:03:51
  Why is this happening now? What does the incoming
• 1:03:55
  administration see as favorable for Bitcoin?
• 1:04:00
  You know, there's there's a number of reasons why this
• 1:04:02
  happening. One is because the technology
• 1:04:03
  has come about. We finally reached the stage of
• 1:04:06
  the Internet where we can go beyond storing information on
• 1:04:10
  the Internet, actually storing things of value, things of value
• 1:04:14
  like wealth, things of value like ownership of a home.
• 1:04:18
  This is what they call the new wave of the Internet, an
• 1:04:20
  Internet of value and the technologies there.
• 1:04:23
  In fact, when you think about Bitcoin or Ethereum with these
• 1:04:26
  others, what they really are is protocols that allow us to store
• 1:04:31
  value on the Internet as opposed to the way we've been doing it
• 1:04:35
  in human society for only the last 400 years.
• 1:04:37
  Storing value in basically an IOU from a financial
• 1:04:41
  institution. And as we've learned in the last
• 1:04:44
  40 years, during which the Internet has never gone down,
• 1:04:47
  banks have failed, including three banks of America's top 20
• 1:04:52
  just in the last three years. So moving value storage on the
• 1:04:55
  Internet is an idea whose time has come.
• 1:04:58
  OK, you got that. Kind of I'm going to ask you
• 1:05:00
  this. So on call for number 4, this is
• 1:05:02
  the number of crypto millionaires that's been
• 1:05:04
  surging, OK? So I think one of the things
• 1:05:06
  that happens and you had a good question to him initially, which
• 1:05:08
  is what does it mean for you? Because when most people are
• 1:05:11
  thinking about their themselves like, well, I don't understand
• 1:05:14
  this stuff. So I don't know how to invest in
• 1:05:16
  it. One thing you said is crypto is
• 1:05:18
  the umbrella, right? Is that right?
• 1:05:21
  And Bitcoin is one type of crypto and there are lots of
• 1:05:25
  different types of crypto. So there, what's a good crypto
• 1:05:28
  and what's a bad crypto? How do you know?
• 1:05:30
  Right. So just just as there's multiple
• 1:05:32
  protocols for storing information, there's HTMLHTTP.
• 1:05:37
  They all do different things. Some are good for website
• 1:05:40
  establishment, some are good for e-mail.
• 1:05:42
  In a similar way, different cryptos allow you to store
• 1:05:46
  different values. Bitcoin, which is the most
• 1:05:48
  widely known and has had the most spectacular success, might
• 1:05:51
  be the equivalent, as you said, Bill, to digital gold in in the
• 1:05:55
  previous world, the analog world.
• 1:05:58
  What cash was to gold in the digital world, digital money may
• 1:06:03
  be to Bitcoin. Let me give you another example.
• 1:06:07
  We live in a time where one out of every $4.00 has been printed
• 1:06:12
  in the last five years. We are the actively debasing our
• 1:06:16
  currency and at the same time Bitcoin has in into its design
• 1:06:21
  program scarcity. You can never have more than a
• 1:06:24
  certain amount of Bitcoin and so the dollar is depreciating.
• 1:06:28
  Bitcoin is appreciating. Quick factoid, in 2018 the
• 1:06:33
  average American home would have cost you over $260,000 and over
• 1:06:37
  400 Bitcoin. Today, the average American home
• 1:06:40
  is now over $460,000. It would cost you less than 5
• 1:06:45
  Bitcoin. So I'm going to leave it that
• 1:06:48
  mean and just open the the conversation, like just open it
• 1:06:51
  up to the panel and just just discuss about this.
• 1:06:54
  What the F is going on? What like like Doc, could you
• 1:06:59
  have ever have imagined this Brother, back in the 20/16/2017
• 1:07:06
  era, we were in the trenches. We were saying the institutions
• 1:07:09
  were coming. Could you have ever imagined?
• 1:07:12
  I mean, that is the former head of the CFTC basically educating
• 1:07:18
  the Fox anchors, you know, number go up.
• 1:07:21
  This is better than owning real estate.
• 1:07:23
  You know, he didn't get everything right.
• 1:07:24
  You know, in terms of of of I don't think he did a a great job
• 1:07:28
  differentiating Bitcoin with crypto.
• 1:07:30
  He could have done better there. But you know, what world are we
• 1:07:34
  living in? I mean that sounds like simply
• 1:07:36
  Bitcoin when on Fox business, essentially.
• 1:07:39
  What's your take, Doc? I had Opti's like Nah.
• 1:07:44
  I think I'm muted, but so I don't think you're going to get
• 1:07:52
  anything more bullish on that topic than what you just got
• 1:07:57
  from a former CFTC chair. Like it's not perfect, you know,
• 1:08:00
  right, Like the big corner and you just cringes a little bit
• 1:08:03
  when he starts talking about Ethereum and other cryptos and
• 1:08:06
  he doesn't differentiate. I get that there.
• 1:08:08
  It's very instinctual. I get it, as he was talking, I'm
• 1:08:12
  sure you guys did as well, but as a whole, you're not going to
• 1:08:17
  get a better bull case scenario than that guy going on Fox News
• 1:08:25
  with his reputation, his standing, his connection to his
• 1:08:28
  network and basically just raving about Bitcoin.
• 1:08:34
  I mean, he was raving about Bitcoin and talking about how,
• 1:08:37
  you know, it's time has come. He was talking about protocol.
• 1:08:40
  He was talking about a lot of things that you would hear in
• 1:08:43
  Bitcoin or circles. Now, I think this is going to be
• 1:08:49
  a trend where it's very much like that.
• 1:08:53
  I don't know if you guys have ever seen that, That video, It's
• 1:08:56
  almost like a meme of like some guy just dancing out in a field
• 1:08:59
  alone. And then eventually like more
• 1:09:01
  and more people join and then it becomes kind of cool to do it
• 1:09:04
  and then eventually everyone joins.
• 1:09:06
  I think it's becoming cool to do it now, especially with the
• 1:09:12
  traditional financial folks. These people don't want to be
• 1:09:15
  left behind. They don't want to look like
• 1:09:20
  they are Luddites in the modern world.
• 1:09:23
  And one way to not look like a Luddite is to get on the Bitcoin
• 1:09:26
  train, understand what's happening, be an advocate for
• 1:09:29
  it, and say, hey, I was one of the early ones in my field,
• 1:09:32
  which is traditional finance, to advocate for it, to own it, to
• 1:09:36
  support it. I think that's what we're seeing
• 1:09:38
  now. These guys in the traditional
• 1:09:39
  finance world. They're starting to have these
• 1:09:42
  conversations. And let me tell you what guys, I
• 1:09:46
  it's, it's shocking, I know, but I speak to regulators all the
• 1:09:50
  time because we run a financial platform and is registered with
• 1:09:54
  SEC and FINRA. You guys would not believe the
• 1:09:57
  amount of people in those organizations that are
• 1:10:00
  Bitcoiners. You would not believe it.
• 1:10:03
  The people that are in those organizations are individuals
• 1:10:06
  just like you and me and they own Bitcoin.
• 1:10:09
  They talk about Bitcoin. They ultimately are waiting on
• 1:10:15
  the framework to meet the innovation, but very, very
• 1:10:21
  sympathetic to Bitcoin within the organization from very many
• 1:10:26
  individuals. Absolutely 100% man.
• 1:10:30
  And, and I'm, I'm excited to, to, to hear more about it.
• 1:10:36
  And you know, and I'm, I'm sure that a lot of what you just said
• 1:10:41
  motivated you into rolling out your business.
• 1:10:45
  You went stealth mode for a long time, my friend.
• 1:10:48
  You just poof. And you came back with a suit.
• 1:10:50
  What happened in between I wanna know.
• 1:10:53
  Yeah wait wait, Nico, before we get into all that cuz we're
• 1:10:56
  gonna give you doctor Bitcoin MD a whole 20 minutes to do that.
• 1:11:00
  I just wanna mention one thing guys.
• 1:11:02
  All I heard in the beginning was Donald Trump wants 150 K day
• 1:11:06
  one. Let's go.
• 1:11:08
  I fully endorsed this message. I am all with that.
• 1:11:11
  So January 20th, 150K Bitcoin confirmed.
• 1:11:15
  And then the the last part that Doctor Bitcoin MD was saying, it
• 1:11:19
  kind of goes into what we've been saying on the show for a
• 1:11:22
  while that I think everyone kind of understands Bitcoin and
• 1:11:26
  understands the incentives of Bitcoin.
• 1:11:28
  But these big mega corporations that do have, you know, a lot of
• 1:11:32
  stipulations and regulations surrounding them.
• 1:11:35
  They just can't fully, you know, put all their money into Bitcoin
• 1:11:39
  yet. But we're slowly seeing that
• 1:11:41
  change. And just to keep this short.
• 1:11:43
  So I do want to give Doctor MD a couple a good, good moment.
• 1:11:48
  The one thing that I was talking about was thinking the whole
• 1:11:50
  time, I mean, you know, Bitcoin MD kind of mentioned it is the
• 1:11:54
  cringe. And I just realized we're going
• 1:11:56
  to we're going to come up with a whole new round of shit coining.
• 1:12:00
  And now it's not just coming from shit coiners.
• 1:12:02
  It's going to come from, you know, these suits and these
• 1:12:05
  regulated institutions and people with PhDs and, you know,
• 1:12:10
  academic backgrounds and like men.
• 1:12:12
  I, I just, I don't know if I'm ready for all that Nico, but it
• 1:12:15
  seems like we're going to get a whole new round of shit coining
• 1:12:17
  and man, I'm not that excited for it, but hey, it is what it
• 1:12:22
  is. You know there's only Bitcoin
• 1:12:23
  be. A shit coin extravaganza.
• 1:12:25
  But I don't. I don't want.
• 1:12:27
  The thing is, I don't want Bitcoin.
• 1:12:29
  I don't. I don't think Bitcoin needs any
• 1:12:31
  special privileges. I don't want the government to
• 1:12:33
  pick who the winners and the losers are.
• 1:12:36
  Bitcoin is is a superior asset. Bitcoin's going to win on its
• 1:12:39
  own. Listen, look, no altcoin has
• 1:12:43
  made an all time high on Bitcoin terms.
• 1:12:46
  Like they could have made an all time high in dollar terms since
• 1:12:48
  2021. But if you check, if you compare
• 1:12:51
  that you should be, you should be judging your net worth in
• 1:12:55
  Bitcoin, not in dollars. You'll see that every altcoin,
• 1:12:59
  at best it's an oscillator, but it's an oscillator on the way
• 1:13:02
  down. So like, you know, ETH had an
• 1:13:05
  all time high versus Bitcoin. It hasn't broken, it's gone up
• 1:13:10
  and down. Like I said, it's oscillated,
• 1:13:12
  but it still hasn't broken that all time high that it's made a
• 1:13:17
  couple years ago. It's just kind of on the way
• 1:13:20
  down and everything in the world goes progressively down as it
• 1:13:25
  compares to Bitcoin, right? So yes, I think we're going to
• 1:13:28
  be heading straight head first into this shit coin
• 1:13:34
  extravaganza. But we're protected by this
• 1:13:36
  orange field, orange force field of Bitcoin, right?
• 1:13:39
  Anyways, guys, stay tuned. We're going to talk to Doctor
• 1:13:42
  Bitcoin. We're going to find out where he
• 1:13:44
  went. He was, you know, one of the
• 1:13:46
  most hardcore Bitcoin Maxis on X, formerly Twitter for the
• 1:13:52
  longest time. And he just disappeared.
• 1:13:55
  Said in case I'm going to focus on my health, I'm going to focus
• 1:13:58
  on some things disappeared, disappeared off the face of the
• 1:14:01
  planet. And then he messaged me like a
• 1:14:03
  couple months ago, said Nico, I'm back.
• 1:14:06
  You know, he's been working on a company and he shows up today in
• 1:14:08
  a suit. So we're going to find out
• 1:14:10
  what's he what he has been working on.
• 1:14:12
  So everybody stay tuned for the culture.
• 1:14:15
  We will be right back. I want to give a shout out to
• 1:14:18
  our sponsor. Hive Digital Technologies As the
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• 1:14:35
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  hivedigitaltech.com. All right everybody, we are back
• 1:15:09
  and I want to tell you about our sponsor, Big Block B 2025.
• 1:15:15
  It's going to be hosted in Dallas, TX, April 3rd, 4th, 5th,
• 1:15:19
  and 6th of of 2025. Bit Block Boom is one of the
• 1:15:25
  best Bitcoin conferences of the year.
• 1:15:27
  In fact, it's the Bitcoin conference where me and Opti met
• 1:15:30
  in real life for the first time. So it's a very special place in
• 1:15:35
  simply Bitcoin's history. The Bit Block Boom conference is
• 1:15:38
  the perfect conference for you to meet some of your favorite
• 1:15:40
  Bitcoiners and potentially to get a job in the industry.
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• 1:16:00
  We hope to see you guys there. The entire Simply Bitcoin crew
• 1:16:04
  and family will be there. So hope to see you guys in the
• 1:16:07
  flash. We will be doing the production
• 1:16:08
  for the conference. It's going to be a great time.
• 1:16:11
  See you guys at Bit Block Boom. Anyways, I want to pivot the
• 1:16:13
  conversation. What's up bro?
• 1:16:15
  How are you? How have you been?
• 1:16:17
  Where have you been? How's life?
• 1:16:19
  Good to see you're doing well. You're in a suit.
• 1:16:21
  Every time I see someone in a suit, I'm assuming they're doing
• 1:16:24
  well. So what's up dude?
• 1:16:27
  I'm doing really well. I just want to point out that
• 1:16:29
  it's a Sport coat and not a suit.
• 1:16:33
  Not quite there yet. Maybe one day, maybe one day,
• 1:16:37
  you know, I actually want to tell everyone here a story and
• 1:16:40
  Nico's a part of this story. You know, most of most of the
• 1:16:46
  people in chat, most of the people that are listening know
• 1:16:48
  me as Doctor Bitcoin. Yes, I, I was a doctor, I was an
• 1:16:51
  academic. I dealt with that life and that
• 1:16:54
  path for a very long time. You know, COVID happened,
• 1:16:58
  craziness happened. I wrote all, all about that in
• 1:17:01
  Bitcoin magazine. People can read about it there.
• 1:17:03
  I'm not going to rehash that. Eventually I decided I wanted to
• 1:17:06
  leave that and I did it with no plan whatsoever.
• 1:17:10
  The first thing I did was actually go to the Bitcoin
• 1:17:14
  conference in Miami. I believe it was 2021 if I'm not
• 1:17:19
  mistaken. And I was I was on AI was on a
• 1:17:24
  panel in 20/21. It was about Bitcoin maximalism
• 1:17:28
  and it was me, Nico, Alex Fetsky and Bitcoin Twitter OG that that
• 1:17:36
  I love Bitcoin lurk and Nick Hoffman was, was the one that
• 1:17:42
  was coordinating everything. And what people don't know about
• 1:17:49
  that is before everything started, we were all backstage.
• 1:17:54
  We were getting ready to go on and we ended up getting news
• 1:17:59
  that Ross Ross Ulbricht was essentially being punished,
• 1:18:07
  getting being put in solitary confinement.
• 1:18:10
  And we, we had a feeling it had something to do with all the
• 1:18:13
  conversations about him and freeing Ross at the conference.
• 1:18:18
  And so when we were backstage, everyone was just really, really
• 1:18:24
  upset really, you know, it was, it was very difficult.
• 1:18:28
  His mother was back there and it was just, it was tough.
• 1:18:30
  It was tough scenes, to be quite honest with you.
• 1:18:32
  And so we went on stage. It was a little awkward.
• 1:18:35
  We did our best and it was a good panel.
• 1:18:38
  We all enjoyed it. And, you know, now, three years
• 1:18:41
  later, it's just really funny to me how life comes full circle.
• 1:18:45
  You know, I end up launching a company called Time Stamp.
• 1:18:50
  I'm on a show with Nico. Nick Hoffman did an article on
• 1:18:54
  it for Bitcoin Magazine, and Ross Aldrick was set to get out.
• 1:18:58
  And so it's just wild. This world is wild, man.
• 1:19:02
  It's so freaking wild, dude, and I just want to add like that.
• 1:19:07
  So that was my first foray into Bitcoin conferences.
• 1:19:12
  I've never spoken at Bitcoin conference.
• 1:19:14
  And I remember seeing Alex Gladstein backstage and I was
• 1:19:18
  like, dude, I'm kind of nervous. I've never spoken now.
• 1:19:21
  Like you put me in front of 30,000 people, I'll just be
• 1:19:23
  like, yeah, what's up? But like back then, if you, if
• 1:19:25
  you hear that panel, like you can hear my voice quiver because
• 1:19:28
  I was nervous and and it was my first Bitcoin conference and
• 1:19:33
  they put us on the mainstage, right.
• 1:19:35
  And I remember I went up to Alex Gladstein.
• 1:19:39
  I said, hey, man, I'm kind of nervous or whatever.
• 1:19:42
  Like, you know, like this is pretty crazy.
• 1:19:44
  Like I've never done this before.
• 1:19:45
  And Alex Gladstein just looks at me and he's like, not that many
• 1:19:48
  people do. And he just walks away, does
• 1:19:51
  Mike skancha just and then he just walks away and I'm like,
• 1:19:53
  holy shit. And then I remember what you
• 1:19:56
  were saying. They were playing a recording of
• 1:19:59
  Ross over the thing right over, you know, to the mainstage.
• 1:20:02
  And we were following up on that.
• 1:20:05
  And that was the panel. And the name of the panel was
• 1:20:08
  like, why Bitcoin maximism is important?
• 1:20:11
  And one of the things that I said, which is if you're against
• 1:20:13
  Bitcoin maximalism, you're against Bitcoin.
• 1:20:16
  If you're against Bitcoin, you're against freedom went
• 1:20:18
  viral. Eric Voorhees was triggered.
• 1:20:20
  He was like shortly after, and it was actually quoted by the
• 1:20:23
  Financial Times, right? Which is nuts, right?
• 1:20:26
  And mind you, one of the things that Nick asked me during that
• 1:20:29
  panel was he asked me about Simply Bitcoin.
• 1:20:32
  Simply Bitcoin had 600 subscribers on YouTube 600.
• 1:20:40
  And I pitched the idea of Simply to the entire crowd, the Bitcoin
• 1:20:46
  2020 or Bitcoin 2021 crowd. And I said I have an idea about
• 1:20:49
  a YouTube channel. Let's use some of the tools and
• 1:20:53
  track tactics from a lot of the altcoin channels and let's
• 1:20:56
  supply it to Bitcoin. That was just an idea in my
• 1:20:59
  head, right? Fast forward four years later,
• 1:21:02
  right? It's like Holy Bejigas, what is
• 1:21:06
  going on here? And then of course, all the
• 1:21:08
  things that have happened along the way, the ups and downs, But
• 1:21:11
  I think that's normal when you're building a business and
• 1:21:15
  Doctor M doctor Bitcoin MD, it's the same thing.
• 1:21:19
  Brother, you, you were there and you weren't wearing a suit
• 1:21:22
  there, my friend. And you were just like the rest
• 1:21:25
  of us in AT shirt or something. And one of the things that I
• 1:21:30
  remember one of our last interactions was and it wasn't
• 1:21:33
  an interaction with me personally, but one of your last
• 1:21:35
  interactions with X was like, hey, I'm going to I'm gonna
• 1:21:40
  focus on my health. I'm gonna, I'm gonna go full
• 1:21:42
  time into Bitcoin and I'm gonna work on something and I'll be
• 1:21:47
  back. Usually when people say that
• 1:21:49
  they never come back, right, They never come back either.
• 1:21:53
  They're they've hit their goal stack.
• 1:21:55
  I was telling this to Opti, though, I don't care how much
• 1:21:57
  money I have. I'm going to be doing this
• 1:21:58
  forever because I love this. But but you know, either they
• 1:22:02
  hit a goal in their head and and they just they're like, I don't
• 1:22:05
  want to deal with social media anymore.
• 1:22:06
  I've been on social media too much F this and they kind of
• 1:22:09
  just disappear. They kind of fizzle out or, you
• 1:22:13
  know, they're just kind of sick and tired of it or it just
• 1:22:15
  didn't work out. You actually came back and you
• 1:22:19
  came back stronger than F, man. And this is like the perfect
• 1:22:22
  segue to your project, which is called Timestamp.
• 1:22:28
  And by the way, you can go to timestampfinancial.com if you
• 1:22:33
  wanna check it out. So I'm just gonna read this and
• 1:22:36
  I'm gonna pass it on to you, Doctor Bitcoin MD.
• 1:22:39
  So for audio listeners, in the beginning of Time stamp, on the
• 1:22:42
  home page, it says invest in founders pioneering the future.
• 1:22:47
  So I'm going to give you the floor, Doctor Bitcoin.
• 1:22:49
  What is time stamp? Why should our audience care?
• 1:22:53
  What are they looking into? Is this potentially investing in
• 1:22:56
  Bitcoin companies? What's your take?
• 1:23:00
  So I'll give you a little bit more back story as to why I
• 1:23:03
  started Time stamp and then tell you a little bit about what
• 1:23:05
  we're doing now. So directly after that
• 1:23:08
  conference, I was out of medicine, out of academia.
• 1:23:11
  I was taking a break from everything.
• 1:23:14
  I didn't have a plan. I didn't have an idea as to what
• 1:23:17
  I was going to do with my life. But I knew one thing is I wanted
• 1:23:20
  to work in Bitcoin, I just didn't know how.
• 1:23:23
  So I tried a few things. I tried to do like a few small
• 1:23:26
  jobs here, a few small roles here at some Bitcoin companies
• 1:23:29
  that were very gracious to me, but I never found the right fit.
• 1:23:32
  And it was for a couple of reasons.
• 1:23:34
  One, I have an odd skill set, you would say a medical doctor
• 1:23:38
  is not something most startups need.
• 1:23:40
  And two is I realized I needed to be my own boss very much.
• 1:23:48
  I I like the classic Bitcoiner type.
• 1:23:52
  Like I just, I, I couldn't, I couldn't work with people's
• 1:24:00
  visions that were not matching my own.
• 1:24:02
  I needed to go my own way and I was working with some fantastic
• 1:24:06
  people to be quite honest with you and they deserve their own.
• 1:24:08
  Dude, I I learned that the hard way too, brother.
• 1:24:11
  So I feel you. Yeah.
• 1:24:13
  So, so honestly, what, what I ended up doing is I dropped
• 1:24:18
  everything. I, I dropped everything in my
• 1:24:20
  life and I moved to Austin, TX for a bit.
• 1:24:23
  No plan, no job, no friends, just hanging out, going, going
• 1:24:29
  to see Bitcoiners, getting to know them.
• 1:24:33
  And man, it's inspiring because what I ended up doing is
• 1:24:38
  basically putting myself at the bottom of a different totem
• 1:24:41
  pole. You know, I'd spent my whole
• 1:24:43
  life working my way up medicine and academia to the point where
• 1:24:47
  I was comfortable and I was doing well from a professional
• 1:24:50
  standpoint. And so to go from that to
• 1:24:53
  starting at the very bottom in the Bitcoin world in terms of
• 1:24:56
  actually making it a career, that was very humbling.
• 1:24:59
  But I got some good advice early on, which was ask questions,
• 1:25:04
  talk to a lot of people and learn.
• 1:25:06
  Don't, you're not here to start anything just yet.
• 1:25:09
  You need to learn. And that was the best advice I
• 1:25:12
  could have gotten. I talked to a lot of builders in
• 1:25:14
  the space. I talked to a lot of investors
• 1:25:16
  in the space. And the biggest thing I found
• 1:25:21
  was that there was a, a disconnect between the community
• 1:25:26
  and Bitcoin. The ones you see on Twitter and
• 1:25:29
  Auster and a lot of the founders in the space, the capital
• 1:25:33
  markets around Bitcoin and open source companies were lacking.
• 1:25:38
  If if you've ever tried to raise money in the space, you realize
• 1:25:42
  that there's only a handful of people that you generally go to
• 1:25:45
  BCS and Angel investors. And once you're done with those,
• 1:25:49
  once those options are exhausted, you're kind of stuck,
• 1:25:51
  right? And so for me, I was running
• 1:25:54
  into so many founders that were building incredible things.
• 1:25:58
  And I wanted a way for them to be able to put themselves out
• 1:26:04
  there and be able to reach the community and have them be able
• 1:26:09
  to invest in these companies. Now, easier said than done,
• 1:26:14
  right? How do you get normie retail
• 1:26:19
  investors or specifically bitcoiners involved in Bitcoin
• 1:26:26
  companies and open source companies?
• 1:26:28
  Well, I did something that I thought I would never do is go
• 1:26:33
  directly to the regulatory bodies and work with them.
• 1:26:36
  It's like. Oh my God that's wearing the
• 1:26:38
  suit bro. It all makes sense.
• 1:26:41
  So dude, you, you asked me, you asked me 3-4 years ago.
• 1:26:44
  Like would you ever work with any of these regulatory bodies?
• 1:26:47
  I'd say absolutely not. That's insane.
• 1:26:50
  That's not me. But what I realized is in the
• 1:26:55
  Bitcoin space, there are people that build lifeboats and there
• 1:27:00
  are people that build bridges. There are plenty of people that
• 1:27:03
  are building lifeboats, whether it's no KYC exchanges or wallets
• 1:27:09
  or hardware wallets or what have you, right?
• 1:27:13
  And these people are building things that people are using,
• 1:27:17
  especially when they have no other options or they're
• 1:27:21
  desperate or whatnot. And I realized that there also
• 1:27:25
  needs to be people that build the bridges.
• 1:27:29
  And so our goal was to maximize access in this space is to allow
• 1:27:33
  as many people to be able to invest in these companies as
• 1:27:37
  possible and for founders to reach as many people as possible
• 1:27:40
  for investment. So we ended up over a year and a
• 1:27:45
  half, but working with these regulatory bodies and over the
• 1:27:49
  summer of this year, we actually got approved to become an
• 1:27:52
  investment platform for Bitcoin and open source companies that's
• 1:27:55
  open to all investors. So time Stamp financial Time
• 1:28:00
  Stamp is an investment platform for Bitcoin and open source
• 1:28:04
  companies that's open to everyone.
• 1:28:06
  Accredited, non accredited, US international.
• 1:28:10
  Everyone can now invest in these Bitcoin companies.
• 1:28:15
  That's awesome, man. And and it and we see so like
• 1:28:18
  I'm thinking about like something like because he's a
• 1:28:22
  friend of the show too, like something similar to like what
• 1:28:25
  Moz does with Lightning Ventures.
• 1:28:26
  Is that correct? It's it's a similar idea in that
• 1:28:29
  we want to get as many people involved.
• 1:28:32
  We want to build a community, we want to be able to offer options
• 1:28:36
  to people. I think what's exciting with
• 1:28:39
  what we're building right now is that the, the demand, the the
• 1:28:44
  excitement around it has been electric.
• 1:28:46
  We've actually already signed eight companies to the platform
• 1:28:49
  in less than a few weeks. These are companies that are all
• 1:28:53
  over the spectrum in terms of where they're coming from.
• 1:28:57
  But we have two deals that are live now on the platform, JP and
• 1:29:00
  Cascader that are both coming out of Pleb Lab.
• 1:29:03
  We have Open Agents, which is has come out of Wolf and they're
• 1:29:08
  backed by Hive Minds. So some VC backed more mature
• 1:29:11
  companies. We have people like Sovereign
• 1:29:14
  who's coming up in Q1, who is the former CTO of River that
• 1:29:18
  started that. And then we have also a couple
• 1:29:21
  that are not listed there, which I'd like to announce.
• 1:29:24
  One of them, Alex Betsy's companies, Atlantis will be
• 1:29:27
  raising on time stamp in Q 1/20/25 as well.
• 1:29:30
  So we have a lot of companies that are coming through our
• 1:29:33
  doors saying this is something we want.
• 1:29:35
  We want to be able to reach a community of people.
• 1:29:37
  We want to be able to reach Bitcoiners, and we want these
• 1:29:40
  people to be involved. We want them to be investors in
• 1:29:43
  our company because it gives them an access to these
• 1:29:46
  investment opportunities. But they're also builds a
• 1:29:50
  different type of skin in the game where these supporters that
• 1:29:53
  were once just liking and retweeting things on Twitter are
• 1:29:56
  saying, wow, that's cool that you're building that can now
• 1:29:58
  actually be invested in these companies.
• 1:30:01
  That's awesome, man. That's very, very cool.
• 1:30:02
  And you know, Svetsky's a personal friend and friend of
• 1:30:05
  the show and that's been hearing so much about SAT Atlantis.
• 1:30:09
  I think he, I think he first brought up and he did a
• 1:30:13
  presentation about it in my data at that Bitcoin conference over
• 1:30:16
  there. And shout out to Andre and Co.
• 1:30:20
  And you know, it was, it was very interesting.
• 1:30:23
  It's, it's very, I'm very glad to hear that that's going well
• 1:30:26
  that he's going to be raising money on your platform.
• 1:30:29
  And it's very exciting. Like from a couple perspectives,
• 1:30:32
  right from like you're doing good by Bitcoin entrepreneurs.
• 1:30:36
  Like for anyone doesn't understand capitalism or
• 1:30:39
  anything like the world works because entrepreneurs take risks
• 1:30:44
  and they build things that you would like and they take a lot
• 1:30:49
  of risks for that. Nothing is certain.
• 1:30:51
  You know, the majority of them lose and then sometimes some of
• 1:30:55
  their ideas turn out to be great products.
• 1:30:58
  So, you know, the microphone that I'm using right now was
• 1:31:02
  eventually that was an idea of dreamed up about an with an
• 1:31:05
  entrepreneur, the camera, the laptop, the cell phone, simply
• 1:31:10
  Bitcoin, You know, it's I these these things are just hopes and
• 1:31:15
  dreams that people come up with. And part of that process is, you
• 1:31:21
  know, being able to raise money. And by being able to raise
• 1:31:26
  money, you're able to kind of fund operations or grow
• 1:31:28
  operations. And that's just kind of the way
• 1:31:31
  that things go, right? You know, and just being an
• 1:31:34
  entrepreneur myself the last four years, just thinking I was
• 1:31:38
  just going to be, you know, a hobby.
• 1:31:40
  And then, you know, it morphed into a podcast and then now it's
• 1:31:45
  morphed into a media company. And me and Opti are just looking
• 1:31:48
  at each other like, what the fuck?
• 1:31:49
  What did we do, bro? How did we do this?
• 1:31:52
  I have, I have no idea. And just looking back like, you
• 1:31:57
  know, you're, you mentioned that the Bitcoin conference in the
• 1:32:00
  beginning, looking back, you're just like, I cannot believe how
• 1:32:02
  we got here. So, you know, you're essentially
• 1:32:06
  not only funding the hopes and dreams of entrepreneurs, but
• 1:32:10
  you're potentially funding some of the latest and greatest, you
• 1:32:15
  know, simply bitcoins or latest and graded strikes or latest and
• 1:32:19
  greatest, you know, Bitcoin wells, a public company.
• 1:32:23
  So that doesn't make sense. But you know, latest and
• 1:32:27
  greatest passports foundations, right, that are just in the
• 1:32:30
  beginning, the early phases and they're just trying to get on
• 1:32:33
  the ground and you're, you're not only funding their dreams,
• 1:32:36
  but you're also taking a bet on them, right?
• 1:32:39
  So, so this is, this is something I want to touch on
• 1:32:42
  here because I think this is, this goes to why I started this
• 1:32:45
  in the first place. I think the look, we're, we're
• 1:32:50
  all betting on Bitcoin in some sense, we're all saving in
• 1:32:53
  Bitcoin. However, I think there is a next
• 1:32:58
  step to saving in Bitcoin. It's investing in the Bitcoin
• 1:33:01
  standard is how how do you put your money to work.
• 1:33:04
  And there are very few things that are worth investing in that
• 1:33:08
  are going to either out compete Bitcoin or offer you some type
• 1:33:13
  of return, whether it's monetary or not that will make you feel
• 1:33:20
  like you made a good investment. So This is why I say, you know,
• 1:33:25
  you save in Bitcoin, you invest in Bitcoin companies, you invest
• 1:33:28
  in the Bitcoin standard. These are companies that are
• 1:33:30
  building the infrastructure to make the Bitcoin standard
• 1:33:33
  possible. You have education companies,
• 1:33:37
  entertainment companies, you have hardware wallets, you have,
• 1:33:41
  you know, new things like AI agent marketplaces that are
• 1:33:45
  payable in Bitcoin. These are things that are only
• 1:33:49
  possible if these founders get the funds to build their dreams.
• 1:33:54
  And so when I built time stamp, I wanted to be very particular
• 1:33:59
  with how we built the incentive structures because I believe one
• 1:34:02
  of the reasons why Bitcoin is what it is, is the incentive
• 1:34:06
  structures that underlie Bitcoin propelled to success.
• 1:34:11
  So when it comes to time stamp for founders, we wanted to make
• 1:34:14
  it extremely founder friendly. So we charge nothing upfront.
• 1:34:18
  So a founder, even if you're fresh and you and you don't have
• 1:34:22
  funds in the bank account to spend on legal fees and, and,
• 1:34:27
  and all the set up for that, we don't charge you anything
• 1:34:29
  upfront. We make our money on a success
• 1:34:31
  based Commission. And so your success is tied to
• 1:34:34
  our success. And we believe that pushes us to
• 1:34:38
  great heights together. And then for investors, time
• 1:34:41
  stamp is free to join. Everyone has access to these
• 1:34:45
  investments. You can view the investments and
• 1:34:49
  then when you're ready to invest, all you have to do is
• 1:34:51
  sign in and go through the investor flow.
• 1:34:54
  And when you do that, you can do so with relatively low minimums
• 1:34:58
  compared to other avenues. If anyone in the chat or anyone
• 1:35:02
  listening has ever tried to invest in companies before,
• 1:35:05
  they've often found that it's not accessible because, well,
• 1:35:09
  first and foremost, they don't have the funnel to the deal.
• 1:35:12
  So they don't get informed of a lot of these deals often times.
• 1:35:16
  And 2nd and most importantly is oftentimes these investment
• 1:35:20
  minimums are very high. So if you want to invest with a
• 1:35:23
  venture capital fund, you'll have to write a check that's
• 1:35:26
  oftentimes 6 figures, if not more to be a part of that.
• 1:35:30
  And once you do so, the decision is out of your hands.
• 1:35:32
  Those venture capital firms are capital allocators.
• 1:35:35
  They take your money and they invest on your behalf.
• 1:35:38
  The reason they make their money is they're good at it, right?
• 1:35:40
  Supposedly some are good, some are bad, but they take your
• 1:35:43
  money and they invest on your behalf and some are great at it.
• 1:35:46
  And I don't think that this is an either or situation.
• 1:35:50
  I think what's what's going to happen is you're going to see
• 1:35:53
  companies that are raising through their community and also
• 1:35:56
  raising through traditional VCs and getting the best of both
• 1:35:59
  worlds to propel them to success.
• 1:36:02
  I love that. I love that, man.
• 1:36:04
  This is, this is incredible. This is great.
• 1:36:06
  I love what you've built in stealth all these years and this
• 1:36:11
  is this is incredible, man. This is awesome.
• 1:36:14
  Giving the people access to potentially some of the latest
• 1:36:17
  and greatest Bitcoin companies. Guys, go to
• 1:36:20
  timestampfinancial.com. Doctor Bitcoin and I have a long
• 1:36:26
  history. This guy's, this guy's the real
• 1:36:28
  deal. He's a true Bitcoiner.
• 1:36:29
  So even though he's wearing a suit, you can't trust them.
• 1:36:32
  I do vouch. I do vouch for him.
• 1:36:35
  Sport coat but but yeah, guys, go check out time
• 1:36:38
  stampfinancial.com go give doctor Bitcoin MDA follow on X
• 1:36:44
  to to stay tuned with the latest and greatest that he's doing.
• 1:36:47
  I congratulate him on his business.
• 1:36:49
  That's really, really cool. Glad to hear that he's been
• 1:36:51
  building and this was simply Bitcoin live for December 11th
• 1:36:55
  2024. I'm your host Nico.
• 1:36:57
  It's my Co host Optimus Fields and our guests for today, Doctor
• 1:37:01
  Bitcoin MD. We'll see you guys tomorrow for
• 1:37:04
  a brand new episode. Today's episode was brought to
• 1:37:07
  you by bitcoinwell.com, a Bitcoin only platform on a
• 1:37:11
  mission to enable financial independence.