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Jennifer Fairgate Pt. Two · The Path Went Chilly

• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of our series about the death of Jennifer Fairgate. Robin,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: do you want to catch everyone up on what we
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: talked about in our previous episode.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Well, this particular case takes place in Oslo, Norway, in
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five at the Oslo Plaza, which is pretty
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: much the fanciest hotel in the city, and Jennifer Fairgate
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: is not the victim's actual name, that's just the name
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: she used when she decided to check in there. She
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: appeared to be in her twenties, but surprisingly she did
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: not provide any valid form of identification or a credit card,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: and the information she provided was false. She said she
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: was from some small village in Belgium, but no tangible
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: connection could be found between her and the location, and
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: she stayed there for a few days and the staff
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: tried to contact her to get her to come down
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: and pay the bill, but they eventually decided to send
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: a security guard up there, and when he knocked on
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: the door, he heard a gun shot, and when they
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: managed to make it inside the room, they discovered that
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Jennifer was the victim of a self inflicted gunshot wound. Surprisingly,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: she did not have a lot of possessions in there,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: like additional clothing. According to keycard records, she had left
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: the hotel a couple times while staying there, but no
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: one knows her whereaboats. There was one point where it
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: seemed like she was gone for at least twelve hours
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: and spent the night elsewhere, And eventually they started looking
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: into the possibility that she could have been a spy
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: or someone involved in espionage and criminal activity, and there's
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: even speculation that her suicide may have actually been a
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: murderer and that she was killed by a skilled assassin
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: who somehow managed to make it out of the room
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: before security burst inside. So they have exhumed her body
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: for DNA testing, but have yet to match it with anybody.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: And even though this case has gotten national exposure international
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: exposure after being featured on Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix, we
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: still don't know the true identity of Jennifer Fairgate or
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: why she checked into the hotel and what was the
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: reason for her suicide. So, like we mentioned, there have
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: been all sorts of wild theories about Jennifer Fairgate's identity,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: but for all we know, she may have just been
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: a lonely person who decided she wanted to spend her
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: last few days in a luxurious, five star hotel before
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: she killed herself. There are many other documented cases of
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: people who travel to the locations they have no ties
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: to check into a hotel under a false name and
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: then end their own life. Of course, my first exposure
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: to this situation was the Gail Delano case from Unsolved Mysteries,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: as she staged her disappearance from her home state of Maine,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: traveled to Alabama, checked into a local hotel under a
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: fake name, and then overdosed on pills, causing her to
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: remain an unidentified Jane Doe for over two years. As
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: another example, there was the man who checked into a
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: motel in Washington State under the false name Lyle Stevick.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: He proceeded to hang himself in the room's closet, and
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: it would be nearly seventeen years before he was identified
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: by genetic genealogy. Both the trail went cold and the
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: path went chile. Ub also covered the story of a
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: man who checked into a hotel in Ireland under the
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: fake name Peter Bergman, and shortly after checking out a
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: few days later, he was found dead on a local beach.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Much like with Jennifer Fairgate, Peter carried no identification and
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: it became apparent that he was not from the area
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: and may have been Austrian or German. The key difference
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: between these two cases is that there is a lot
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: of CCTV footage of Peter's movements in the days prior
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: to his death, as he was captured exiting the hotel
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: on multiple occasions while carrying bags which were not in
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: his possession whenever he returned. So this has led to
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: speculation that Peter spent the last days of his life
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: gradually disposing of personal items which might have held close
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: to his which might have held clues to his identity.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Even though it seems like Jennifer left the Oslo Plaza
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: for an extended period of time during her stay there,
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: we don't have the luxury of tracking her movements since
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: the police just wrote off her death as a suicide
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: and never bothered to check the hotel security cameras.
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: When you look at her case and you look at
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: the items that were left in her hotel room, am
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: I right in remembering that she actually did not have
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: very many clothing items? They were kind of some obscure
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: clothing items, and what she did have, including her shoes,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: had the labels removed from them, the designer labels.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Except the blazer.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much like she had the labels removed from
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: the shoes and most of her clothing except the blazer.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: And she didn't have a change of clothes there, like
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: she was found wearing a long black leather jacket and
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: a bra and black silk pajamas, shorts and stockings, but
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: no actual painants or skirts or anything like that. So
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: you have to wonder did she have any other clothing
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: when she checked in here or did she just gradually
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: dispose of it over the few days of her state.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: We definitely have to send a lot of thanks towards
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: investigative journalist Lars Christian Wegner, because if he had not
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: taken an interest in uncovering Jennifer Fairgate's true identity, her
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: story might have faded into complete obscurity and she would
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: be nothing more than a Jane Doe languishing in a
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: pauper's grave. In twenty seventeen, Wegner published an extensive article
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: about this case in the Norwegian newspaper Verden's Gong, and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: he likely played a huge role in getting the story
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: featured on Unsolved Mysteries. Since Robert Stack is no longer
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: around and the Netflix reboot does not have an official host,
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Wegner pretty much had to function as the episode's narrator
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: in order to share the details of the case with
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: English language audiences. If you look up Wegner's original article
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: from Verden's Gong, you'll find a video for a thirty
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: minute documentary titled Mystery at the Oslo Plaza, which fills
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: in some of the gaps in the story and clarifies
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: key details that Unsolved Mysteries left out. Of course, after
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: the Unsolved Mysteries episode aired, the big question many viewers
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: seemed to have was how in the world was Jennifer
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: Fairgate able to check into the Oslo Plaza without a
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: credit card and proper identification. I know this was nineteen
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: ninety five, but even back then this hotel had very
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: strict rules about security, and it's difficult enough to check
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: into a cheap, fleabag motel without an idea or credit card,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: let alone the most luxurious, expensive hotel in Oslo. Even
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: if they were willing to make an exception for her,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: you'd think the staff would have required her to provide
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: an advance payment in cash, but she managed to stay
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: there for three nights without paying anything. I think this
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: has helped elevate the conspiracy theories that Jennifer Fairgate was
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: a spy involved in espionage with connections at the hotel
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: who were willing to give her a room without following
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: proper procedure.
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: It's definitely a possibility, But aren't there a million other
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: possibilities too, Like let's say she was a sex worker
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: and she happened to be with the manager of the
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: hotel and he let her stay there. Or if she was,
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: you know, running drugs and someone at the hotel was
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: buying drugs from her and they let her stay there,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: or I mean, or I don't know that she conned
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: her way in somehow that her rich, fancy husband was
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: coming to stay with her in a few minutes and
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: she just doesn't have a card and she's a damsel
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: in distress and she needed help and they helped her,
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: and then it got lost.
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: In the shuffle.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, yes, could she be a spy, sure, But
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: I really think if you sat back and think of it,
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: there's a million ways that humans could bypass the rules
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: and say, hey, just this one time, let's do this,
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: or you know, let's allow her to do this.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: But don't you guys think that the clerk who checked
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: Jennifer in would hold all of those answers, because if
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: it was indeed a manager who pressured them to check
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: Jennifer in without the proper you know, credit card or
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: advanced PA, then that clerk would be able to relay
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: that to the police officers, or if it was any
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: other situation, say they knew her and they let it
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: slide for one reason or the other. Do we know
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: any of those details, Robin? Uh?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm actually about to share them right now, because
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: they didn't address the clerk on the Unsolved Mystery segment.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: But this Mystery at the Oslo Plaza documentary does feature
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: an interview with the actual clerk, and he does share
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: some of the details, So I'm going to tell you
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: about them right now. So, like I said, the Mystery
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: at the Oslo Plaza documentary does address the issue by
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: featuring an interview with Sasha Renee and Nonsen. The actual
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: receptionist who check Jennifer in that night a Nonsense shares
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: all the details about what happened and says that he
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: never detected anything unusual about Jennifer, though he doesn't really
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: address why exactly he allowed her to rent the room
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: without proper ID and a credit card. However, it has
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: been mentioned that when Jennifer checked in, it was a
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: busier night than usual at the hotel, as three flights
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: from major airlines all Land did at Oslo Airport, and
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: there was a police officer strike taking place at the
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: airport's passport control office. Long story short, it sounds like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: everything was going wrong and a ton of people were
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: flocking to the Oslo Plaza for accommodations, so the hotel
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: seemed to have the mindset that they wanted all of
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: their guests to be checked into their rooms as quickly
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: as possible without hassel. While details are vague, this might
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: explain why Jennifer was allowed to get a room without
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: ID or a credit card, as a Nonsen may have
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: assumed that she would provide payment and sort out the
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: situation in a later time when things were less busy.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Even though he never admits this, part of me wonders
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: if Jennifer might have given a Nonsen a generous cash tip.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: To let her check in under these circumstances. However, we
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: know that Jennifer originally made a reservation on May the
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: twenty second, and then called them again on the thirty
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: first to confirm that she would be arriving that night.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: But if the hotel had not been busy, how could
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Jennifer be certain they would allow her to check in?
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: She we actually have ID and a credit card in
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: her possession, which she disposed of at a later time.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Did she just get lucky that she didn't have to
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: present these items when she registered? I know a nonsen
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: makes it sound like there was nothing unusual about the transaction,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: but I still have to wonder if there's more to
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: this story.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: There are definitely people who would not share details once
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: a crime happened right in fear of getting caught up
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: in it. But if I knew that there was a
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: young lady who killed herself or completed suicide in her room,
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: and that she was dead, I feel like the cash
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: tip I got as a front desk clerk, or allowing
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: them to break the rules a little bit, would not
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: have stopped me from saying like this is what I know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Like I don't know who she is, but if I
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: can help, here's information. I guess some people just wouldn't.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, this documentary was made in twenty seventeen, and
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: of course Jennifer checked in in nineteen ninety five, so
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not entirely sure that A. Nonsen was still working
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: at the hotel after all that time when the documentary
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: was filled. I'm thinking that if he did something that
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: he wasn't supposed to, like accepted a cash bribe or
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: something that at so much time had passed, that he
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: wouldn't be reluctant to admit it.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: But you never know, you might be embarrassed and be
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: worried about the way that people would judge you, because
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: it's a completely different lens. If you're looking through and
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: you're going, okay, well, this guy was given a tip
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and that's why it was allowed to slide otherwise. There's
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: all these different theories that you can come up with,
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: but we do know that she was partial to giving
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: large tips, because wasn't it like sixty kroner or something
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that she left to the person who delivered that meal?
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the last meal she ordered, and because
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: they didn't find any additional money after her death, It's
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: been suspected that this was all the money that she
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: had left and just decided to give it all as
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: a generous tip, which could be foreshadowing that she was
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: planning suicide in the near future.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: So we know that when Jennifer called the hotel earlier
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: that day, she mentioned that a mail companion named Lewis
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Fairgate would be sharing the room with her, and there
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: seems to be discrepancy about whether a man was actually
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: present when Jennifer checked in. The Nonsense said that he
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: did not recall seeing a man, but The Mystery at
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the Oslo Plaza documentary also contains an interview with Evie
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: tudem Yeertzen, who was a reception desk supervisor that night,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: and she remembers seeing a dark haired man with Jennifer.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: She specifically recalls this man handing her some money for
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a currency exchange, but it should be noted that this
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: exchange may not have taken place at the time of
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: check in. Remember, key guard records showed that Jennifer entered
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: her room at ten forty four pm and twelve twenty
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: one am, so it's possible that she went down to
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the lobby at a later time with this man in
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: order to make the curancy exchange, which is why a
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Nonsen did not recall seeing him. Regardless if this man
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: actually existed and spent the night with Jennifer, I think
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: it's safe to say that his real name was not
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: actually Lewis Fairgate, since investigators found no record of anyone
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: matching that name. One scenario I've seen push forward, which
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: sounds fairly plausible is that Jennifer was a sex worker
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: and Lewis Faregate may have been one of her clients. Obviously,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: if they were checking into an expensive hotel like the
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: Oslo Plaza, this would imply that Jennifer was a high
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: end sex worker who charged a lot of money, and
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: a fairly compelling theory is that if she regularly serviced
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: her clients there, she may have had an arrangement with
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: certain staff members to check in under false names without
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: identification in order to protect everyone's privacy. This could also
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: explain why they returned to the lobby to make a
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: currency exchange, as perhaps Lewis didn't have the correct currency
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to pay her. I actually find this scenario more believable
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: than the idea of Jennifer being a spy, and it
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: could explain why certain staff members from the hotel have
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: always been reluctant to talk about it. Of course, the
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: biggest issue with a sex worker theory is that it
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't account for why Jennifer would remain at the Oslo
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Plaza for three more days before she wound up dead.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this is one of the theories that I think
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: would be much more reasonable than being a spy. I think,
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: like you said, if she is a sex worker, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: she's a high end escort, and she normally I regularly
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: will come here, there doesn't need to be any knowledge
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: of what the truth is. Right, I'm gonna pay you
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: under the table. You're gonna benefit, My clients are going
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: to benefit. I get this beautiful, fancy room. Who knows
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: what her actual lifestyle was like, if she had a
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: nice place to go home to. So I could easily
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: see this being the scenario. And when you look at
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: the kind of secrecy she would be operating with, not
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: everyone at the hotel would know who she was, but
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: there could be certain people, like you said, they go, oh, okay, quote,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Jennifer is here, give her that room, we're not booked,
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: and let her stay until we have people that need
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: it for an official rental of the room.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: If that's the case, do you guys think that she
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: intended to go there and to meet a client and
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: then thought about it for a while It took a
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: few days to think about if she wanted to complete
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: suicide there, Like if this plan was already there, maybe
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: see this one last client, have that money in her
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: pocket in case she decided against it. What do you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: guys think.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: That would make sense? Because maybe she just didn't like
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: her lifestyle, like she hated being a sex worker, so
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: she decided I'm going to end it all. But maybe
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to spend the last few days of my
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: life in this luxury hotel because I was able to
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: get in without paying, and I just want to have
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: some fun for a while and have some time to myself.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And then once it gets to the point where they
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: figure out that I'm not paying them and that I'm
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: going to get kicked out, that's when I'll end things.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Also, though, you could think about what circumstances could have
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: happened in that hotel room that could take her from
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: quote being there to service a client to wanting to
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: complete suicide. What if that client had abused her in
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: some way. What if she had been filmed against her consent,
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: What if they had alluded they were going to contact
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: someone close to her. You know, there's all kinds of
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: things that could make you go from like, oh, this
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: is just another night with my clients, to oh my gosh,
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: like my life is ruined.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: This can't get out, this can't happen.
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: So I think this angle is a very sharp, intelligent
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: one to go down when you look at easily people
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: could look the other way if this was a scenario,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: and easily something could have gone wrong because it's all
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: in secrecy. That's the problem with sex work, right. People
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: are able to easily abuse those people because no one's
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: paying attention, or it's all done behind closed doors. And
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: so there's many things that could have happened that Jennifer said,
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: I can't overcome what just happened to me.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: And that could explain why Jennifer had a gun. Say
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: she was an independent sex worker, and maybe she'd had
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: difficult relations with clients in the past where she felt threatened,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: so she decided to bring that handgun, and like you said,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: maybe something happened and she decided to use that gun
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on herself.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: And think about her like fancy clothes, Like what if
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: they weren't quote fancy and she removed the labels because
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: they're cheap brands. And then she has a couple really
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: nice items because she's meeting really wealthy men or women
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: who were her clients.
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: You know, that could explain a lot too.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: But being at the Plaza hotel, that sounds like a
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: pretty expensive place to be conducting your business. And Robin,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: do we know if there was any evidence of or
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: substance use disorder or and alcohol use disorder.
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: Uh, They've never really specified that, And I've always thought
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: that because I do know that they checked her system
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: and for traces of alcohol and drugs, and they didn't
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: really find anything on the toxicology screening, so I don't
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: think she was using either of them when she checked in.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: But then again, they just kind of wrote her off
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: as a suicide, so I don't know how thoroughly they
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: checked in if there's something they could have missed.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: I wonder what percentage of people have alcohol or drugs
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: in their system when they choose to complete suicide, especially
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: with a firearm. I'd be interested to hear those statistics.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: I'd be curious, like if she took some drugs like
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: three days beforehand and then never used it while she
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: was at the plaza, would it still be in her
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: system after her death after all that time.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: It depends on the drug, but I think it would be.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I went to rehab many years ago and
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: they make you continually pee, so just to make sure
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: that you don't have anything in your system. So I
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: would think that they would be able to take urine
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: from her bladder and to check her blood and there
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: would probably just be low levels. I know, things like
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: cocaine clear out pretty quickly. If it's a opiate, it
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: takes longer. I think if it's weed it takes longer.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: But I think they would still be able to find
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: some trace.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And I know Ashley brought up the possibility of her
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: being abused while she was there, but they didn't find
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: any sign of abuse either, or any signs that she
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: had been physically assaulted. Another possibility is that Jennifer and
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Lewis were lovers who may have been conducting a secret affair,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: which necessitated the use of false names to check into
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: the hotel. It's been established that Jennifer was most likely
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: not from Norway and possibly from Germany, so perhaps Oslo
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: was one of those places where she and Lewis would
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: meet up for a rendezvous. But for whatever reason, something
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: happened during the stay at the Oslo Plaza which made
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Jennifer believe the relationship wasn't going to work out, so
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: she decided to take her own life. Theoretically, if Lewis
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: was a married man with a separate life who had
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: been carrying on this secret romance with Jennifer, that would
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: explain why he's never come forward even after her story
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: garnered international publicity. It's very interesting how the contact information
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Jennifer filled out on a registration form was from Belgium,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: and she specifically mentioned an obscure remote village called Verlin.
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: Since no one from verlinn recognized Jennifer's composite sketch and
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: there's nothing to tire to the village, it seems unlikely
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: that Jennifer ever lived there, but some of the information
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: she filled out on the forum suggests that she did
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: have some sort of knowledge of the area. So if
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Lewis Faregate actually existed, what if he was the one
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: who hailed from Belgium and not Jennifer after all? Even
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: though Jennifer's sketch was circulated through Verlin. It does not
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: sound like a composite was ever created for Lewis, so
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: if he lived in the area, none of the residents
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: would put two and two together. Of course, this theory
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: is all just speculation on my part, but I am
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: intrigued by the detail of Jennifer attempting to make outgoing
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: phone calls from a room to two numbers in Belgium
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: that did not actually exist, even though the area codes
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: belonged to a municipality just outside of Verlaine. If Lewis
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: hailed from this municipality, then perhaps Jennifer was trying to
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: call him, but she did not actually know his correct
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: number and couldn't get a.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: Hold of him.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: This would explain why she dialed two non existent numbers
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: that only had a one digit difference between them, as
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: if she had an idea of what the number was
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: but didn't actually know it for certain. There's been so
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: much theorizing that this mysterious Lewis was somehow tied to
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: espionage or criminal activity and may have been Jennifer's handler
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: or perhaps even her killer. But what if they were
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: just a couple trying to keep a secret of fame
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: under wraps.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: That could also explain her decision to take her own life.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: He could have come there to give her money and
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: say like, look, we can't keep doing this anymore, like
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: good luck to you, but we just can't do this anymore,
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: or hey, my wife found out, or your husband's gonna
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: find out. You know, my wife's gonna call him whatever,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: and that could have led her to complete suicide too.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Only thing there is if anyone else knew about the situation,
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: I feel like her identity wouldn't have been as easy
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: to keep a secret.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Like after her death.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I feel like they would have been able to say,
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: oh my god, that's my wife, you know, or oh
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: my gosh, I was looking for my girlfriend, or you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: my husband's lover isn't around anymore. I feel like there
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: would have been a little bit easier way to identify them.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: But it's definitely a possibility.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: But if he was from Belgium, maybe his wife never
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: heard about it, and when he heard about it, he's like, oh, shoot,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: I better not say anything here because I'll just keep
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: my mouth shut and I don't want to be tied
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: anywhere near this.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking you would depend on how
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: many people knew about the affair, because if neither of
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: them was from Oslo and they just met up there
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: for this secret romance, and Lewis was the only other
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: person who knew about it, I could definitely see him
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: staying quiet.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Do you think him any of the affair could be
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: a reason she'd complete suicide?
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I do, yeah, Like if he was a married man
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: and had a family and says I don't want to
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: do this anymore. Like maybe she was hoping that he
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: would leave his wife or his family for her, and
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: when he said no, that was the breaking point.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: For Looking at the timeline, we know that Jennifer used
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: her key card to enter her room at eight thirty
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: four am on the morning of June first, meaning that
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: she may have woken up and stepped out to have
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: breakfast or something before she returned. She did not use
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the key card again until eight fifty am on the
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: morning of June second. But the weird part is the
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: two maids who cleaned the room on the afternoon of
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: the first confirmed that it was empty and Jennifer was gone.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: And this is definitely one of the most baffling elements
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: of this entire story because the maids went in there
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: at twelve forty four pm and Jennifer was not seen
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: again until she showed up at the front desk on
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the morning of the second in order to extend or
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: stay at the hotel by two nights. So this means
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer was gone from the hotel for nearly twenty
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: four hours and no one knows where she spent the night. Furthermore,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: the hotel security footage was never checked. We have no
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: idea if Jennifer was alone or if she might have
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: been with Lewis Faregate when she left on the morning
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: of the first. When Jennifer returned and extended her stay,
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: it sounds like she was alone. So could something have
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: happened with her and Lewis during those twenty four hours
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: that played a role in her decision to take her
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: own life, or if you believe the foul place took place,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: something compelled Lewis or someone else to show up at
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the hotel at a later time to kill her.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: That's the part that throws me off completely, is that
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: you have this system in place that can read key
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: cards and can show you exactly when someone comes and
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: goes from the room, and the key card reads differently
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: when it's the cleaning service it comes and goes, or
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: management service that comes and goes, or the guest comes
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: and goes. And it looks like she never leaves the
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: room over that course of time. Yet the cleaning ladies say, no,
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: we were in that room at this time. I'm assuming
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: their key cards show that they were in and out
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: of the room and she wasn't there. If they're truly
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: cleaning this high end hotel, they should be cleaning everywhere.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: They should be looking in the closet, they should be
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: looking in the bathroom, they should be doing all of that.
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: So it's not like she's hiding in the room. How
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: the heck could she not be in that location but
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: also not have the doors read that she left.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I think the doors didn't read when she left. It's
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: only the key card showed when she entered her room.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: But obviously we don't know when she left. But since
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: we have a twenty four hour gap between when she
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: went in and the maid said she was not there
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: at twelve forty four pm, that seems to indicate that
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: she went somewhere and spent the night at another location
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: before she returned, but we just have no idea where
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: this could be. So the last entry and the key
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: card took place at eleven three am on the morning
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of the second, which means that Jennifer may have spent
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: as much as nineteen consecutive hours inside the room alone
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: without leaving before she died. However, just because the key
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: card wasn't used does not necessarily mean that someone else
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: didn't enter the room, as an outside party could have
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: shown up there by knocking on the door and Jennifer
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: let them inside. But the only confirmed sighting of Jennifer
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: during this nineteen hour window was the employee who delivered
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: food to a room at eight twenty three pm and
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: confirmed she was alone. There's also some confusion about other
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: items being seen inside the room which were not present
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: when Jennifer's body was found. We have they account from
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: the housekeeper who said she saw a pair of colorful
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: high heeled shoes in the closet when she cleaned the
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: empty room on the first, But since we know Jennifer
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: entered the room on at least two separate occasions on
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: the morning of the second, I suppose she could have
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: gone out and disposed of the shoes somewhere, But it's
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: also possible that the maid was simply mistaken, as she
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: led cleaned several rooms that week, and I'm not sure
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: how she could have such a vivid and accurate memory
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: of a pair of shoes she saw in some guest closet. However,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: the account from the employee who delivered the food is
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: a bit more unusual, since she reported that Jennifer was
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: wearing a suit which made her resemble a flight attendant,
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: and she also had a rolling suitcase. Neither of these
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: items were found, and since there was no record of
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: the key card being used after that point, how could
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: Jennifer have disposed of them? Did this mean that someone
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: else entered the room and remove the items, or could
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: the employee simply be mistaken. It's also worth noting that
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: two key cards were found in the room following Jennifer's death,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: which implied that she checked in with an additional guest.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: Investigators never specified if there was any additional activity on
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: the second key card, but I'm guessing not, because otherwise
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: it likely would have been reported. When Jennifer received her food.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: She also gave the employee a tip of fifty kroner,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: which is considered to be a lot higher than your
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: average room service time. Since no other money was found
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: following your death, it's possible that Jennifer just wanted to
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: give away all the money she had left in her
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: possession because she knew she would no longer need it.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: When you look at the two key cards that have
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: been given to her when she checked in, I don't
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: know that that necessarily signifies she had somebody else with her.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: My very first job out of college was working for
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: a like a hall at Hampton in And when I
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: was working there, sometimes we would just automatically code two keys,
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: pop them in the envelope, and hand them over to
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: the guest. And sometimes I was just being lazy, like
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: it was just you know, automatic, everybody knew code two keys,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: give it to them, walk away. I also have people
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: that will say do you want one or two keys,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: even if it's just me checking into a hotel, So
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: meaning like, hey, maybe I have someonecoming leader that I
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: want to give it to, or I don't know, sometimes
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: I want to leave one on the dresser and one
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: in my jean pocket or whatever. But I don't know
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: that it definitely says, hey, there was somebody else I
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: think it could have also just been tall policy to
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: put two in the key card holder and hand it
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: over to the customer.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's most likely because it is standard
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: practice these days for hotels to give two key cards
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: to one guest. And like I said, there was any
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: activity on that second key card, I think police probably
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: would have told us about it.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: So one detail which really throws me off is the
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: presence of undigested food in Jennifer's stomach, which implies that
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: she ate something a short time before she died. The
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: meal she received was only half eaten and still in
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the room when her body was found, even though it
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: was delivered nearly twenty four hours beforehand. So could this
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: mean that Jennifer was actually killed on the evening of
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: June second, shortly after she ate, or did she save
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: the food for a while and consume some cold brought
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: worst and potato salad sometime on the evening of June third. Well,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: if it's the first scenario, then this would definitely indicate
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer was murdered, since someone else had to fire
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: the gunshot after espin Nas knocked on the door, but
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: while waiting twenty four hours to eat cold food is
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: a bit odd. The second scenario makes a lot more sense. Remember,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: since Jennifer never provided any payment, the front desk sent
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: a total of three messages to the TV screen asking
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: her to come downstairs and see the cashier. The last
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: message was sent only fourteen minutes before Noss went upstairs
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: and was a lot more urgent in tone. But since
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: someone responded to the message by pressing okay, this means
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer or an unknown party was definitely in the
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: room at the time. However, when you see how these
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: events unfolded, suicide seems a lot more plausible than homicide.
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: A gunshot was heard immediately after Nos knocked on the door,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: and while we technically don't know if this was a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: shot which killed Jennifer or the so called test shot
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: that was fired into the pillow, it makes no sense
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: for an outside party to do this, as there's no
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: way anyone could have known who was in the hallway.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: If this was a murderer, then the killer got extremely
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: lucky that Nos was a young, part time employee who
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: was not about to put his life at risk and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: took fifteen minutes to head downstairs and ring the rest
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: of the security staff. To the room, giving the killer
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: ample time to escape. For all the shooter knew, there
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: could have been an entire security team outside who would
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: have been able to use a special security key card
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: to open the door and burst inside. I think that
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a killer would have been more inclined to stay silent
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and hope that the person at the door just went away,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: rather than firing off a gun. Would If you believe
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Jennifer's death was a suicide, then it makes perfect sense
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that she would elect to shoot herself under those circumstances.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: If her plan was to spend the last few days
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: of her life in a fancy hotel before taking her
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: own life, she probably knew that her days were numbered
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: when the message demanding that she see the cashier appeared
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: on the TV screen, So when she heard the knock
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: of the door, she knew her time was up and
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: decided to end her own life.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: I think you're spot on there when you think about
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: this idea that it's a killer sitting in the room
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: and he hears a knock and he goes, this is
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: it any fine that's drawing attention to the room, And
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: like you said, it requires an immediate response. And so
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: how am I going to get out of this room
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: after I just shot someone, and there's someone standing outside
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: the door and.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Clearly would have heard it.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: The only bizarre thing to me when you're looking at
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: her suicide is it's right in the gunshot wound is
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: right in the middle of her forehead, which seems like
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: the most uncomfortable, bizarre location to shoot yourself. But when you,
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: I mean, when you think about it, it's just nothing
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: else makes sense. They said that there would have been
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: no way for someone to escape that room other than
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: the door to the room, And so if he's sitting
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: there waiting for fifteen minutes, the killer just I don't
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: see them shooting as soon as the knock happens at
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: the door, And I don't see them just waiting around
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: and perfectly timing their escape when this kid is just
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: walking downstairs. How would they know when he left the hallway?
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because the conspiracy theories that are pushed forward is that, well,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: maybe her killer was a spy or a highly trained assassin,
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and their skill that's sensing when people are outside, and
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: they could have gone out the door and locked it
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: behind them without anyone knowing they were in the room.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: But this is the stuff that you find in movies,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and it just seems pretty far fetched that this could
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: have been the mode of behind Jennifer's murder.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: Did you need at this plaza in nineteen ninety five
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a key card on the elevator to access certain floors?
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I don't have that information. It's never really specified that
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: in any of the sources, but I know that from
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: my experience at hotels, I don't remember hotels having those
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: kind of key cards and elevators during the nineteen nineties.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Of course, if you watch the Unsolved Mysteries episode, it
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: contains interviews with a number of experts who questioned the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: suicide ruling and believe it would have been possible for
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: someone else to shoot Jennifer and escape the room while
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: locking the door behind them. I will admit that there
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: are some unusual details, such as the lack of blood
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: spatter and gunshot residue on Jennifer's hands. But here's a
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: quote from Lars Christian Wegner's Verdon's Gong article by Bjorn David,
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: a forensic technician who investigated the scene. Quote, we took
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: samples from the skin near the weapon to look for
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: gunshower residue, but it's not a given that you find it.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: With the way the victim held the weapon. In this case,
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: most of the residue would have been on the other side,
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: where the hand would be with a normal grip. Sometimes
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: we find residue, sometimes we don't. You can't see the
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: particles with the naked eye. The test kit we used
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: is a tiny vial with an adhesive on the end,
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: which you pushed down on the victim's hand. Maybe we've
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: picked the wrong spot, but nothing was found in the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: electron microscope examination end quote. Even though Jennifer's fingerprints were
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: not found on the gun, there was also no guarantee
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that you'll always be able to get prints off a firearm,
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: as the surfaces and the grip can make it difficult.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: And while a lot has been made of the positioning
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: of the gun in Jennifer's hand, UNSAW Mysteries neglected to
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: mention that the trigger was depressed, as a click was
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: heard when the weapon was released. So unless Jennifer was
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: murdered by the most skill assassin ever, I have a
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: hard time imagining this scene could have been staged. Well,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure there are people who work in government intelligence
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: that possess the necessary skills to stage a suicide scene
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: and escape a room while double locking the door behind them.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: That sort of thing sounds time consuming, and I have
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: to harken back to the fact that there's no way
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: an outside party could have predicted it would take fifteen
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: minutes for the security chief to show up at the
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: room after Espinos knocked on the door. Some doubt or
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: unusual that when Jennifer was shot, she was dressed up
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: as if she was ready to go out and appeared
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: to have recently showered. After all, she was found wearing
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: a pair of black high heeled pumps, which many women
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: are not inclined to wear when they're lounging around indoors. However,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I would put much stock into this,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: since suicidal individuals sometimes want to look their best when
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: they end their lives.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely that's the case. But when you also look
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: at this, it's kind of like an oxy moron. You're
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: going to dress really nice, but you're going to then
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: complete suicide in the most one of the most heinous
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: ways you could by doing a self inflicted gunshot wound
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: to your head. A lot of times, that's why you
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: see women not choose that method, because, like you said,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: they want to be presentable, they want to be clean,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: they want to be able to be buried with an
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: open casket, those kinds of things, and so that's why
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: medicine or you know, other types of options are chosen.
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: So it is kind of bizarre if you weren't in
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: your healthy mental state at the time, I could see
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: the idea of I'm gonna look nice and then complete
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: suicide with this, you know, with this gun. But from
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: a logical standpoint, it's kind of this juxtaposition of I'm
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: gonna be really nice and presentable, but then also make
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: it where visually I'm not presentable to whoever finds me.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And I find the black silky pajama shorts a strange
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: choice if that was the case, because you would want
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to look presentable, you would want to look nice, but
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: would you want to look sexy. I wouldn't think that
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: most women who were in that position would choose to
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: wear something that could be described as like what like undergarments,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: almost what you would wear at night to go to
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: bed with your partner, not something there's something vulnerable about that.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: That's a really good point.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: We have a couple of other odd details such as
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: the presence of a newspaper bag from room twenty eight sixteen,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: But even though all records of who actually stayed in
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: the room that night are no longer available, I'm not
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: sure if it's all that significant, as Jennifer could have
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: just stolen it while walking down the hallway. We also
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: have the Belgian businessman known only as mister F, who
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: stayed in room twenty eight oh four across the hall
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: and made this weird remark about being asked about Jennifer's
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: death when he checked out on Saturday morning, even though
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: she was not actually found dead until Sunday evening. But
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: mister F was not interviewed until two decades after the fact,
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: so for all we know, he might just be misremembering
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: things and it has no relevance to the case. Of course,
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: if the police had not been so quick to write
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: off Jennifer's death as a suicide and actually questioned witnesses
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: like Missus back in nineteen ninety five, we might have
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: a better idea of what happened here, but it is
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: what it is. All this debate about escaping from locked
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: rooms and stage suicides might be irrelevant if Jennifer was
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: not even involved in espionage to begin with, and just
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: a regular civilian. The most compelling evidence to support the
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: spy theory is the fact that she was carrying a
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: Browning semi automatic nine millimeter pistol which appeared to be
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: compiled of bits and pieces of other guns, and the
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: serial numbers were burnt off. Jennifer was also carrying an
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: attashchet case containing twenty five additional bullets, which obviously would
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: not be necessary if she was planning a suicide. It
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: sounds like burning a gun serial numbers off with acid
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: is not a particularly easy thing to do, so even
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: if Jennifer was no spy, this might suggest that she
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: at least had a background in something like organized crime.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing, how can we even be certain
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: that Jennifer burned the numbers off herself. The weapon definitely
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: looks like some thing that would have been purchased on
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the black market before. All we know, the serial numbers
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: could have already been burned off by someone else before
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: Jennifer even obtained it. I'm not trying to say that
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: Jennifer was just an average run of the mill citizen
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: who'd never been involved in anything illegal in her life.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: But I don't necessarily believe that the presence of this
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: gun is concrete evidence that she was involved in government intelligence.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: Since only one gunshot was reported in the hotel on
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the night of Jennifer's death, we still can't be certain
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: if the shot espen Nas heard was fired from the
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: first or the second bullet fired from the weapon. But
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: if Jennifer fired a test shot, then this indicates to
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: me that she might not have had all that much
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: experience with firearms. After all, if a self inflicted gunshot
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: wound to the head doesn't actually kill you, you could
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: instead wind up with serious brain damage or become a vegetable,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: which would probably be a fate worse than death for
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a suicidal person.
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, I can't image and how horrific that would be.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: You know, when you're at the end of the of
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: your rope and use it like all I want to
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: do is leave, and then it is in a successful attempt.
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: But here's the thing.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: She didn't have to be involved in anything to go
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: up to somebody who she loosely knows and say, listen,
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: I am in fear for my life. I need you
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: to help me get my hands on a weapon. And
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: the person says, oh, yeah, for sure, I can get
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: you a weapon that no one will know anything about.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: And they hand her this weapon and she goes to
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: the hotel and complete suicide. It could be so simple
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: as just saying, hey, I need a weapon to protect myself,
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: but I don't want to go buy one. Okay, well
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: I'll buy it from you. And they hand it to
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: her already prepared the way that it looks suspicious, and
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: she uses that to complete suicide.
• 39:45
  Speaker 4: And that's all there is to it.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: If there's one complaint I have about the Unsolved Mysteries episode,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: it's that they spent too much time focusing on the
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: issue of whether Jennifer's death was murder or suicide. But
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: all I said and don I still believe that suicide
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: is the most logical election explanation, and the big mystery
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: to solve is figuring out her true identity. Until I
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: hear otherwise, I'm certainly not going to rule out the
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: possibility that Jennifer Fairgate was a spy or a government agent.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But if cases like the Somerton Man, Joseph Newton, Chandler
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: the Third, and Lori Erica Rouff have taught me anything,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: is that the truth is sometimes a lot less sensational.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: In any case where an unidentified deceit and is found
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: with the labels from all their items of clothing missing,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: it's pretty much a given that amateur sluse will gravitate
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: towards the theory that the victim was a spy who
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: removed all these labels in order to conceal their identity. However,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: whenever I come across online discussions about these types of cases,
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: I'll always hee commenters mentioned that they personally like to
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: remove the labels and tags from their own clothing, not
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: because they're involved in espionage, but because they simply find
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: them uncomfortable. So I'm not sure I'd read too much
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: into this detail, as people who have led ordinary, mundane
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: lives might have their own reasons for wanting to remain unidentified.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I do think that many parallels can be made between
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Fairgage and Peter Bergman, as both victims may have
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: wanted to spend the last few days of their lives
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: traveling to locations they had no ties to, and used
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: this time to gradually dispose of all personal items which
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: held any clue to their true identities. Jennifer may have
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: done this during the nearly twenty four hour windows she
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: was gone from her hotel room, which is why certain
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: possessions were never found. But a key difference between these
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: two cases is that Peter was believed to be in
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: his early fifties or early sixties, and an autopsy revealed
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: that he was suffering from prostate cancer and bone tumors,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: so he likely only had a few more weeks left
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: to live. Anyway, Jennifer was considerably younger than him, and
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: as far as I know, her autopsy did not detect
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: any serious medical issues. So we really have no idea
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: why she would have chosen suicide.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: There's just so many things that could contributed, Like we
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: talked about, did something happen in that hotel room with
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: somebody else? Did she go to that hotel room with
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: this plan? Did she do you have a mental breakdown
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: while she was in the room. There's just a million
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: things that could have happened.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: Did she get bad news? We just don't know.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: It does seem like she, at least in her head,
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: thought that she was supposed to be meeting somebody or
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: was trying to contact people but had wrong phone numbers,
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: didn't necessarily have the information that she was, you know,
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: presenting that she needed. And so I think it's just
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: a really interesting case that because we don't know who
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: she was, you can't also figure out then what happened.
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: But what's sad if this is a young woman, she's young,
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: she's in her twenties, who is going to this hotel
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: to complete suicide. She's so lonely and think she has
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: nobody in the world that needs her and loves her
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: and it's worth taking.
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: Your own life.
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: And then the irony that no one.
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: Knows who she is. I mean, it's just.
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: Really really sad when you think about it, that you
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: know she had somebody in this world that needed her
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: and wondered where she was. If she's from another city
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: or another country or something like that, there's somebody out
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: there going, I'm missing my daughter, I'm missing my sister.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: My girlfriend ran away. I and do have no idea
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: whatever happened to her, And she's countries away in a
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: hotel completing suicide.
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: So the irony of that.
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: It sticks really deep to me, like she's so alone,
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: she's so lonely, and then someone else is alive that
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: lonely as well because their loved one is dead and
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: they don't know where.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: She is well.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: Early on the episode, I made reference to the suicide
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: of the man who checked into a motel in Washington
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: under the name Lyle Stevick, who was finally identified in
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. But this was a case where they were
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: able to find his genetic relatives, but they kept so
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: many details about his true identity private because his family
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: didn't want to reveal much about who he was or
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: why he was at that motel. But rumors have circulated
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: that he was completely estranged from them, so that's why
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: they never officially reported missing it. So, for all we know,
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: it could be the same thing with Jennifer Fairgate, where
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: she might have family in another country or another part
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: of Norway, but because they're estrange from her that haven't
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: had any contact with her for decades, they may never
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: have officially reported or missing and might still be unaware
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: that she died in a hotel.
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: That's true with sex workers, that's not uncommon, right, or
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: runaways or people they consider quote throwaways, That's not uncommon
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: for a family to say, listen, we tried. We tried
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: to get her help, we tried to get her home,
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: we tried to get her healthy, and we just have
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: to almost put boundaries up to where we can't have
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: a relationship with her, or going for years not hearing
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: from hers not odd. So you're very right that's a
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: possibility as well too. They just simply have no They
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: lost track of her, and because of her lifestyle or
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: because of decision she was making, or even her mental health,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: they just simply lost contact with her.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: So are there any missing persons out there who might
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: be a promising candidate to be Jennifer? Well, if you
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: do a Google image search on Jennifer Fairgate, you're going
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: to come across a photograph of a woman named Kimilla Steina,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: who is believed to have been twenty three years old
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: when she went missing in Denmark during the nineteen eighties.
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: This appears to be one of those cases where you
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: can't pin down a specific date when the victim disappeared,
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: as Kimilla's brother last saw her alive sometime in nineteen
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: eighty six, but her family pretty much lost touch with
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: her after that, and she was not officially reported missing
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: until nineteen eighty seven. There's no direct evidence that Camilla
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: was the victim of foul play, and she was known
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: for being something of a drifter, who once stated that
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: she wished she could forsake technology and live off the land.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: In other words, Kimilla seemed like the type of person
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: who would be inclined to break off all contact with
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: her loved ones and eventually end her life in a
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: hotel in a country that she had no connection to.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: The most intriguing parallel is that Camilla spent a great
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: deal of money on dental work before she went missing,
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: and Jennifer gone extensive dental work as well. Now, Camilla's
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: name has always been brought up as a possible match
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: in online discussions about this case, but after the Unsolved
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Mysteries episode came out, the British tabloid The Sun decided
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: to publish an article about it out of sheer laziness.
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: It seems like they did a quick Google image search,
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: found a picture of Kmilla Steina and attached it to
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: their article. Some other clickbait websites soon followed suit. So
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: this has created some confusion and given off the mistaken
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: impression that the photo of Camilla is actually the real
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: photo of Jennifer Fairgate. In actuality, the only legitimate pictures
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you'll find of Jennifer online are a post mortem photo
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: and a composite sketch of what she looked like. Admittedly,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Camilla does have a pretty striking resemblance to Jennifer, so
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I'd like to think that investigators have already looked into
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this ankle, and if they haven't made a DNA comparison
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: yet with surviving members of Kimilla's family, here's hoping that
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: they do it in the future. In many cases involving
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: unidentified decedents, it's assumed that they had no friends or
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: family who cared about their fate, which is why no
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: one came forward to claim them. However, we've seen a
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: lot of cases these past few years where John and
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: Jane does have been identified and it turned out that
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: they did have family members out there whom they had
• 47:16
  Speaker 1: lost touch with for several years well, for various reasons
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: such as jurisdictional issues, the decedents loved ones had no
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: luck finally, an official missing persons report, so they didn't
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: really have any options for finding them. Even if Jennifer
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Fairgate is not Kimila Steina, then it might be a
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: similar story involving another young woman who simply lost touch
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: with her family, and she's never been reported missing. If
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: Jennifer hailed from another country outside of Norway, such as Germany,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: then you can see why no one has put two
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: and two together yet.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I could absolutely see why there would be a disconnect.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: But Robin, you were telling us that over in Europe
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: they're not doing the genetic genealogy and the DNA testing
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: at the level we're doing here in the US.
• 47:58
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: Yes, I'm not even sure if they've done it at all,
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: because genetic genealogy has only been around since twenty eighteen
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: in criminal investigations in North America, but I've yet to
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: hear anything about when and if Europe is planning to
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: implement it, so I really don't think they have used
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: it in this particular case. Perhaps all the speculation about
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: espionage and government intelligence is nothing more than smoke and mirrors,
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: and Jennifer was just a woman who wanted to live
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: off the grid and enterr life on her own terms.
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: They're definitely a bunch of unanswered questions, and perhaps the
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: answer hinges on the identity of the man known only
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: as Lewis Fairgate. If he actually exists. It's possible that
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: even if he had no involvement in Jennifer's death, he
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: may have still spent some time with her at the
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: Oslo Plaza and could hold some answers about her true identity.
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: If this case had taken place in the United States,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: it's possible that Jennifer would have already been identified by
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: now via genetic genealogy, but laws are different in Norway,
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: so at the moment, all the authorities can really do
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: is uncover a promise candidate to be a match had
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: then obtained a DNA sample from the relatives in order
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: to make a comparison. The good thing about this story
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: being profiled and unsolved mysteries is that it's no longer
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: a niche case which only gets discussed among online slus
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: since it's now gotten exposure on Netflix. Jennifer Fairgate's composite
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: sketches everywhere, and people all over the world now know
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: her face. Before genetic genealogy, this was pretty much how
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: many cases involving John and Jane does got solved. Someone
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: would come across the decedent's photo or a composite sketch
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: online and notice a resemblance to someone they used to know,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: and DNA testing eventually proved their instincts correct. So this
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: might be how Jennifer Fairgate ultimately gets identified. And if
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: you happen to have any information on her identity or
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: the circumstances of her death, please contact the appropriate authorities.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Jules Ashley, any final thoughts on this case.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: I think, like I said earlier, the biggest thing that
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: sticks out to me here is, like you said said,
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: the most simple explanation is probably the reality that you
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: had this young girl who was struggling with her mental health.
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: She might have been facing a challenge that you know,
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: as a young girl, felt like it couldn't be overcome.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: And we know when't you know, the older you get,
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: you go like I can survive anything, right if I
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: keep going. But when you're young, sometimes things have such
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: a finality to them, or like they seem world ending.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: And so it's very possible that this young girl checks
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: into this hotel with a plan to take her own
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: life because she just.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: Can't do it anymore.
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: And the sad part, like I said, is that to
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: have that mentality and to say people would either be
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: better off without me here or no one would miss me,
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: and then to not have your identity known or have
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: anyone being able to claim your body or to put
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: you to rest, or to mourn you.
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: It's just all so sad. It's a young.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: Girl, and I don't care what she was involved in.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Let's say she's the head kingpin of drug ring, or
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: she's you know, a major sex worker, or she's a spy,
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: or just a young girl who has had too much
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: on our shoulders. It's a young girl who's deceased and
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: there's no way of knowing who she is. My prayer
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: for so many families is that some of these European
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: countries that are not really chasing this DNA technology start
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: to realize how significant it is. Because it's not just
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: her case, it's hundreds of thousands of cases where question
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: marks could become answers for a family. And so that's
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: it kind of speaks to a bigger issue here of
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: the importance of needing the ability to do that kind
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: of genetic testing and a DNA matching.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I agree with everything you said, Ash. I think if
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: these countries could operate in the way that the US
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: is right now, I think it would solve a lot
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: a lot of open cases that they have with John
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: and Jane does and maybe we would find out if
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: Jennifer Fairgate is indeed Kamilla Steina. I mean, it's a
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: very interesting parallel that they look so much alike and
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: that a lot of people think that they could be
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: the same person. But there's so many unanswered questions with
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: this case, and like if it was indeed Camilla Steina,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't seem to me personally in line that
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: she would go to the Plaza Hotel and she would
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: have all of these kind of fancy clothes somebody living
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: off the grid doesn't really align with me. With somebody
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: wanting to go to like the most luxurious hotel and
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: to have items in her wardrobe like that blazer that
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: I'd looked up what it would have costed that and
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: it was between three and eight hundred dollars. It just
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't seem off the grid to me. And I mean,
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: between nineteen eighty six and nineteen ninety five, things could
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: have changed in her life. It could have been the
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: exact same person, and her life just took a turn
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: and her taste changed and her objective changed, and that's
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: what brought her to the Plaza Hotel. But I am
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: more inclined with what Robin had originally theorized in his
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: original Trail One Cold episode to think that she's more likely,
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: in my opinion, to be a sex worker than she
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: is to be a spy. I think that the gun
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: is likely something that she had for her protection, and
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that she burned off those serial numbers herself.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: She may have got it from some source in the underworld,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: because if she was indeed a sex worker, she might
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: have had access to the types of people who would
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: have allowed her to procure a gun, such as that
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: they would have been untraceable. Why she needed that Attashey
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: case with twenty five bullets, I'm not sure, but I
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: just really hope that my ash said in the coming
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: years and at least in the next decade, that Europe
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: catches up with the genetic genealogy and being able to
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: apply it to these unsolved cases.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely do hope that happens, because on the
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: Trail when Cold, I often do year end Q and
• 53:55
  Speaker 2: A episodes, and one question I get virtually every the
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: year is which case have you covered up podcast that
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: you think will eventually be solved? And virtually every time
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: I pick a case involving an unidentified John or Jane Doe,
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: and more often than not they do wind up getting identified,
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: because that's just the way things are working now in
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: North America with genetic genealogy, where all these people who
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: have been unidentified for decades are finally getting their names back.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: And I would like to say the same thing about
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Jennifer Fairgate, but like we just said that, they have
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: not implemented genetic genealogy in Europe. And that's why Peter Bergman,
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: another John Doe whom we checked into a hotel and
• 54:33
  Speaker 2: died under strange circumstances and we talked about on the
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Path went Chile, he also has not been identified either,
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: even though he died fifteen years ago. So yeah, I
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: do hope that happens. And I remember when this was
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: featured on Unsolved Mysteries over four years ago, and I
• 54:50
  Speaker 2: was really excited to see it because this was a
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: case I had read about on Reddit but had not
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: gotten a lot of international exposure. So I was great
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: to see it on a platform like now neflicks because
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: it increased the chances of her being identified. Maybe the
• 55:04
  Speaker 2: right person would watch it. And yeah, I do think
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: that the segment focused too much on the foul play
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: versus suicide theory. I really do think the simplest explanation
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: is the correct one, that she died by suicide and
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: there was no grand conspiracy or no assassins and no
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: espionage involved, and that when we do find out the
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: truth of our identity, I have a feeling it'll be
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: a lot more simple, and maybe we'll find out she
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: was a sex worker, or maybe we'll find out she
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: was a lonely person who decided to check into a
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: fancy hotel and end her life for reasons that only
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: she will understand. But I do remember we made reference
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: to the Delano case and unsolved mysteries, and that's one
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: that got solved in the pre DNA years just because
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: the medical examiner who examined her body just happened to
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: watch the TV show about Gail Delano's disappearance and recognized
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: her as the Jane Doe and that's how she wound
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: up being identified. So maybe something like that will happen
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: with Jennifer Fairgates case. Someone will just see her composite sketches. Aha,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: I knew this woman and I haven't seen her since
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. That could be her and we will
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: finally get conclusive answers to this very tragic mystery.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: which I talk about cases which are not featured on
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: and if you join our highest tier tier three, the
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsawved Mysteries,
• 56:49
  Speaker 2: where you can download an audio file and then boot
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: first episode that I did a commentary track over was
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: the episode featuring this case. So if you want to
• 57:11
  Speaker 2: download a commentary track in which I make more smart
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: ass remarks about jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: Tier three.
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: So I want to let you know a little bit
• 57:20
  Speaker 5: about the jeweles and n ashy patreons. So there's early ad
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our
• 57:26
  Speaker 5: Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so
• 57:29
  Speaker 5: they're not very mini, but they're just too short to
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: So we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: them in the show notes.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: So I want to thank you all for listening, and
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: any chance you have to share us on social media
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: with a friend or d rate and review is greatly appreciated.
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing.
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy