Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / What’s Really Wrong With the All Blacks? Springboks’ Red Card Problem & More!

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What’s Really Wrong With the All Blacks? Springboks’ Red Card Problem & More! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  Whatever this is, it's not working and we have to change.
• 0:03
  I just imagine like the four of us carrying an old black coffin.
• 0:07
  Wall draft beer is bugging off our game.
• 0:09
  Are Ireland really there or are it really a tired?
• 0:12
  Have they really dropped off where we saw them?
• 0:14
  I don't think the the drop goals should be three points.
• 0:16
  I won't be swimming in the cold sea.
• 0:18
  I'll be in the Irish pubs waiting for Trimby.
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  Thought drop goals were just for world cops.
• 0:23
  I think it's time for the coaches to stand up and say listen we need to look at this.
• 0:27
  You've injured someone or whatever.
• 0:29
  You know you're out for six weeks and we're going to doc you pay.
• 0:32
  We as the Southern MSG must be worried.
• 0:35
  Okay so I'll put my little fox sped out in for in case.
• 0:39
  Luckily we won't lose. I'll be fine.
• 0:41
  Well he tackles like a Spanish footballer.
• 0:50
  Right welcome to rugby rivals for another week and um you okay there JK?
• 0:55
  Not actually okay how do you think I am mate?
• 0:58
  How do you think I am like seriously it's it's your team as well you idiot.
• 1:04
  I know but I'm passionate for this how do you think I feel?
• 1:07
  How do you think I feel going to going to Twickenham and losing and listening to swing low
• 1:14
  at full voice of 80,000 people for well I didn't think for the first 20 minutes but for the last
• 1:24
  I'm got it Ricardo do we fear as you should be yeah you haven't done any of the rest of
• 1:29
  us any favors JK now they're a cock a hoop and now we all have it's not just you
• 1:33
  has to suffer we're suffering as a result for the first time all three of us
• 1:38
  behind you really and you let us down come on yeah like we did we did we did
• 1:44
  mate we did we let ourselves like there's just some things within the team that
• 1:49
  um we just not used to seeing as all black fans right like
• 1:53
  honestly there's some amazing rugby been played and then we have this
• 1:58
  this other side of our personality like how often do you see an all black team miss touch
• 2:05
  um with the ability to go 15 points clear not be really clinical you know we must
• 2:10
  touch twice at critical times didn't take a kick at goal um you know it's just really it's
• 2:17
  just really difficult for us to to understand what's going on as well so you know we're we're
• 2:22
  pretty gutted and you know for me it's like hard to come up with the answers right and there's
• 2:30
  absolutely no excuses I thought England were really really good clinical you know heaps of
• 2:36
  energy and we were just we were good enough so okay do you think we all talk about our DNA and I
• 2:42
  know New Zealand got a certain DNA I just felt on Saturday they played too much rugby between
• 2:48
  the two ten yards they were not getting momentum and they just kept on playing playing until
• 2:54
  they made a mistake and that gave territory immediately to England well I call it I call it
• 2:59
  dead man zone right and for the first color for the first sort of 10 to 12 minutes were in dead man
• 3:04
  zone and I was sitting for this I was sitting next to this guy and I said we need to change up our
• 3:09
  kicking game we need to put a push on and for then then for about 10 to 12 minutes we did and we
• 3:14
  had that beautiful spell where scored you know they they did a they did a they did a really good
• 3:20
  back move and the center popped out and and you know we were looking we were looking really good
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  and then it was like that we switched you know with with Bodhi missing that that kick to the corner
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  you know you sort of going you know we can go to you know we can go to 15 points clear here
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  and then there were them then we just you know that DNA that DNA balance is a good way to put
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  up Victor we just we just don't need to be finding that mix between you know the the flare our DNA
• 3:48
  where we can score a try from anywhere back to that that disciplined you know strangle you type
• 3:55
  of game we haven't found that mix at all and it's you know it's it's frustrating it's frustrating
• 4:01
  because you know I think if you want to be in all black now and go down in the legacy it's like
• 4:07
  it's like South Africa you know you've got to win something like the Grand Slam so for them not
• 4:13
  to run the Grand Slam as a team you know they don't go down in the history books so it's it's
• 4:20
  frustrating if you're if you're a Kiwi now we're all sad we're all sad for you we're all sad for
• 4:26
  you if you have black shirts today I do have all black shirts as well you see
• 4:33
  I don't give up I don't give up the faith guys like like for me I'm an all black fan you know I
• 4:41
  love the jersey I love the team and you know for us I feel for the players we've all been players
• 4:48
  right like you know sometimes when you when you're trying to soul search to understand what's next
• 4:54
  you know and and you've just got to cop it right at the moment we're just not good enough
• 4:59
  and if you don't if you don't admit that to yourselves first you know one one of the things that
• 5:04
  I've always been taught as an all black the first person you need to to look at as yourself in the
• 5:09
  mirror so sometimes these are turning points you know something has to change and and what is it
• 5:16
  I don't know there needs to be some soul searching within the team within the coaching staff
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  they need to look in the mirror probably starting with Razzie you know he needs to look in the
• 5:24
  mirror and say okay what's what's going wrong and we need to get back on the horse and make
• 5:29
  sure we finished the tool well but that over the summer there needs to be some reviews about
• 5:34
  why we are inconsistent and that's the concern right the inconsistency in our performance over
• 5:40
  this year is probably not acceptable do you think there's something is it something very kind of
• 5:49
  deeply fundamentally wrong with the all black or there were there could there be a couple of quick
• 5:53
  fixes as you say first 20 minutes against Sikal and was brilliant first 20 minutes in Twickenham
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  was brilliant there was brilliant last 20 minutes in Chicago so there is there are moments we go
• 6:04
  with that the all blacks of of old but there's so much inconsistency even just when you look at
• 6:09
  England and how they performed the weekend they've took two they've took years to get here
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  and because it felt like there was something fundamentally flawed with what they're doing and
• 6:20
  their philosophy it feels like New Zealand could probably fix out a bit quicker is that is that the
• 6:25
  case or is there something there it's a great question from me and I thought about this yesterday
• 6:31
  right and at this level the difference is very small percentages okay but sometimes you can use
• 6:40
  that as it was a couple of misses for touch it was this is that but that's where you're lying to
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  yourself if there is another issue other players connected enough is it a game plan they want to buy
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  into you know where are those changes so I don't think if I was going to think deeper is super rugby
• 7:00
  now preparing our players for test match rugby if I was going to look deeper so I think there's
• 7:05
  two conversations there's our high performance format delivering the players in the condition
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  that we need to play test match rugby first question second question but that net will actually
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  other way around that needs to be the second question the first question is you know what the coaching
• 7:21
  staff will have to ask themselves was are these players do these players want to play this game plan
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  what's our selection model like what's our trainings like so you've got to go through the whole
• 7:32
  stuff because it's small differences and you know there's going to be a real real honest sit down
• 7:37
  session especially with the leaders and it's okay I just feel and I think it almost
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  answer your questions as well I think rugby goes through cycles and at this moment there's
• 7:50
  two areas of the game that's really important first actually three but the two standing out first
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  you need to have a dominant scrum second thing is the aerial contest and then you need game breakers
• 8:02
  to score turnovers and broken field but those first two I think is so important in the game and
• 8:09
  if you look at all the teams that's consistently good and not that you fall I mean I think you lost
• 8:14
  one more game in South Africa this year so it's not that big a margin but I think if you're going
• 8:20
  to have a look at the big games you don't have a scrum you stand now all your own but it's not
• 8:25
  dominant you don't get scrum penalties from there and the aerial battle all the games that you lose
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  you lose the aerial contest so I think that's a big area that at the moment where the cycle we
• 8:36
  will drag P.R. and our games are one that's just one area where you fall short at the moment and
• 8:42
  I think that's something do you want to keep playing the way you want or do you need to work at
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  that and pick players that can give you that dominance yeah I don't disagree and I think
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  I think the biggest thing for me Victor is I totally agree with that I think our aerial game needs
• 9:00
  a bit of work on I mean I'm not going to comment on the scrum but I think you're right a dominant
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  scrum I think it's the inconsistency over the 80 minutes that is the psychological challenge that's
• 9:13
  where I will be asking the question right so there's an emotional side and there's a technical
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  side so you're totally right you know what it's like with set piece you've got to win your line out
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  you know you've got to win your scrum and I think the the aerial and I think discipline now though
• 9:28
  the discipline is a little bit you know it's a little bit up and there because especially with
• 9:32
  South Africa when you get red card he's still winning your football back but Jacob we talk about
• 9:36
  the emotional emotional they must be there because they start very well every game so that
• 9:41
  means they up for the game that yeah totally attitudes there so some attitude problem because they start
• 9:47
  really well they just can't go for 80 minutes and that's where I talk about that dead area where
• 9:53
  most teams they play one two phases if they don't they don't waste energy they just go to the kicking
• 9:58
  game put a ball up just outside the 22 it's one kick is 20 meters sprint so you don't waste energy
• 10:04
  we New Zealand is playing that dead area and I think late in the game it's probably catching up
• 10:09
  with it because you only have so much energy in a game yeah and look I think we're not talking about
• 10:16
  honesty and looking in the mirror this isn't whatever we're doing is not working so you just need
• 10:22
  to admit that we need to win this week but then you need to sit down and go whatever this is it's
• 10:28
  not working and we have to change right now where it's like answer your question trivia it's not
• 10:35
  it's not the end of the world these are small margins but those small margins are going to cost you
• 10:39
  big time and so if you are an all black fan and an all black player and an all black part of the
• 10:47
  team then you know it is something's not working and we need to find out what it is and that needs
• 10:53
  to be internal and then we need to go right what do we need to do over this break to move forward
• 11:01
  you know it's not who serious this is because usually every other podcast we just take the
• 11:08
  piss out of each other and now it feels like we're all showing solidarity which makes it
• 11:13
  worse I would say I just imagine like the four of us carrying an all black scoffing here that's
• 11:18
  what it feels like we should be enjoying this actually to me because it doesn't happen often but like
• 11:24
  it's not often that the old legs are down I think you know I think you guys yeah 2009 the all
• 11:30
  blacks within the same same situation great players they just couldn't put it together off season they
• 11:37
  went down I went I know there's a story about they went into the change room much wrong within the
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  team culture and they came out and for six years they were the best team in the world so like you say
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  it's small margins in this game and I've been there as an all black as well we've been there
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  Ricardo was actually there you know and I think before the World Cup you know in South Africa
• 12:00
  Ricardo there was a lot going on and there were few changes that had to be made and you know
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  I think they they made some change so this happens like but guys I just care so much like
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  I just really care about this team and as I know you both do for your team so it's good to take
• 12:19
  the purse but you know I regard you guys as friends of mine and I'm just really really upset
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  and I'm asking questions for the team you know it's a question for me if they pick a world 15
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  tomorrow at the moment how many all blacks do you think would be in that world 15 Roy guard
• 12:36
  why did they take Roy got off was injured I think both him and Barrett got a bit of a knock
• 12:41
  you know both injured yeah because he was brilliant in that first half giving territories kicking
• 12:46
  game everything was spot on yeah yeah I agree yeah but I think I think for I think for me
• 12:54
  there's what you're right Victor you know in times you know like there's moments in time
• 13:00
  Trimby you played in that amazing game and in Chicago where all of a sudden you had the football
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  team you might not have the belief and then WAMO you know look where you've come now so it's just
• 13:11
  an honesty call and we need to sit down and go whatever other says we have 5% off and that's
• 13:17
  unacceptable at this level because we'll get beaten so there's a lot going on as you
• 13:23
  know there's a lot of change going on within the rugby union so it's a moment of change
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  if you were going to name a world 15 tomorrow I want to ask all three of you what all blacks would
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  be in that world 15 so JK you've got Roy guard Roy guard is going to get dropped as soon as the
• 13:38
  point gets back from injury as well um for me I think there's probably yeah there's three guys that
• 13:46
  probably get close the two just named Roy guard will Jordan and then Sevilla must always be close
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  to selection as well I think Caleb I think Caleb Caleb Clark's pretty pretty up there as well
• 14:03
  but there's a problem no tight five in that mix well Cody Taylor has been Cody Taylor has been you
• 14:12
  you know he's not there he's playing well but I don't think he's at the same level as Malcolm Marks
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  and Sheenan what about England I mean you know we've talked about the all blacks but England
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  they're on a team on the rise well to you know Victor talked about DNA and what you saw on the weekend
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  and this is that and and Trimby mentioned it you know after 20 minutes 25 minutes I'm sitting
• 14:35
  sitting and the stand pretty relaxed I think you know we're gonna we're gonna
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  really gnarly guys but I just think they know their DNA you know they just know their DNA
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  when they're in that dead man zone Victor you know they're gonna put a kick up you know they can
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  chase it you know their scrums really competent their lineouts really competent they just and
• 14:53
  they work really hard off the ball you know they are run they are working really really hard you
• 14:59
  know they deserve their win on the weekend you can't say anything against that they hung in there
• 15:03
  that worked hard their bench came on really excited so you know they bought work you know
• 15:10
  last year this is how quickly it works right Trimby last I think last November they're saying
• 15:14
  both works not good enough let's get rid of them you know and and you know so yeah I just think
• 15:20
  they know their DNA and they know how to they know how how to play a game that suits them well I
• 15:24
  think if you look at both week he was part of a very successful Saracent team for a long time
• 15:32
  and I think when he took over he wanted to go away from that a little bit and then you could
• 15:37
  just see he's going back completely back to that Saracent style what work for them kicking game long
• 15:43
  kicking game hard chase trap those guys trying to force the turnover and I mean the aerial game
• 15:49
  is pretty good and they've got a two front rows that's very competitive as well so the scrum is
• 15:54
  good so I just think both week went back to exactly what work for them at Saracents and
• 16:02
  probably even the culture because I know Saracents had a great culture when they were so successful
• 16:06
  so I think he just went back to that everyone bought in and like Jacob is saying they know how
• 16:13
  they want to win it's not I mean every team's got a way that they want to win games and at this stage
• 16:18
  England knows exactly how they want to play and how they want to win games it's about the
• 16:22
  balance as well the as you say in that dead man zone between the 10 so much will be do we play
• 16:28
  how many phases do we go when it starts to slow down and there's a sense you know you can see
• 16:33
  George for kind of putting his finger in there so we're going to feels like noise the time and he
• 16:36
  just has a sense for it and I'm sure there's a science as well but then there's a feel and they
• 16:41
  seem to have that feel Alex Mitchell and him just seem to get that balance the fourth week didn't
• 16:46
  always get that balance a year ago we're having this conversation around just limited game
• 16:51
  limited amount of rugby just not just kicking the ball too early kicking the ball too often
• 16:56
  and I don't know if it's maybe they didn't get that balance correct or whenever they did go to the
• 17:01
  air they weren't good enough in the air to make it to make it work so it looked like the game plan
• 17:05
  was flawed but they just seem to have that balance now where they kick at the right time play at the
• 17:09
  right time and you know when you've got a pack going forward pack dominant a set piece winning
• 17:15
  collisions and you've got some like George for it just reads the game so well just dropping into
• 17:20
  the pocket even the three points from drop goals I thought drop goals were just for world comps
• 17:24
  but every now and again you just go okay that's a lovely addition to your game I imagine that
• 17:30
  that the feeling from your pack in front of you they just go two three four phases and then
• 17:34
  just go to easy three points keep that momentum going and then obviously the all blacks just feel
• 17:40
  like they're in the receiving end the whole time England have really got that balance set a minute
• 17:46
  just talking about that then and I said I probably wouldn't say it today but
• 17:51
  stuff that I'm going to say it anyway but there's two rules that need to change pretty quick you know
• 17:55
  just two well well let's start with two but like this this this um this team in attack and then
• 18:05
  this goal line dropout that is bullshit so teams aren't getting a reward from positivity and I've
• 18:10
  been saying this and I didn't want to say it today but I don't think that the drop goal should be
• 18:14
  three points I still think it should go back to one because then it comes a game winner but I
• 18:19
  totally agree with you trivia that was great great great tactical and um decision for them to make
• 18:25
  a drop kick because we made two mistakes they went down and and crawled back to one point so I
• 18:31
  think tactically on the weekend unbelievable the future I want to see that change to just one point
• 18:38
  jk I agree with you 100 percent on the trial line because I think teams are positive they get over
• 18:44
  the trial line and then the pressure get released so I would like to go back to that five meters
• 18:48
  crumb but I still think the drop goal is a skill and sometimes it fades away and then it comes back
• 18:56
  like the weekend and I mean for four to have that feeling that's what they need at their moment
• 19:01
  and to have that skill to put it over I think it deserves the three point and even in South Africa
• 19:06
  I mean 100 pull out we didn't get anything when for a drop goal yes it was stopped of course
• 19:12
  like everything was in that game and we got the penalty in the kick the penalty but it's just
• 19:17
  for players and that's I think with four at 10 for England as well he's a guy that looks to play
• 19:24
  now I think with a conservative mindset of the team he's probably very good at 10 for them
• 19:29
  because he's always looking for opportunities um but I think that feeling that at 10 and at 15
• 19:36
  must have to read the game and yes of course a structure but this is what's needed now to give
• 19:41
  him a momentum or to get him a momentum back so I thought four was really good oh yeah no I don't
• 19:48
  agree I don't disagree with you Victor like well I'll ask Trumbi what he thinks about the three points
• 19:53
  and I see Riccata you've got a why have you got a kicking team behind you well just you know
• 19:57
  just you never know when someone might need a kicker was that a so I was just going to ask you
• 20:02
  about what you think about the drop kick so not take anything away from England great tactical play
• 20:08
  three points go for it and that completely turn the game on us he'd say I agree with you
• 20:13
  so if if drug goals were worth one point set of three he got two drug goals so you would have
• 20:18
  lost by four points less is that what without I just think it's uh I just think it's I just think
• 20:25
  it's a really a drop a one point drop goal really makes that a game winning moment or a really big
• 20:32
  moment in the game a three-pointer you know I just think it's too much for the school that it's
• 20:39
  that it is yeah every now again it kind of it's demonstrated unusually as I said it's demonstrated
• 20:44
  at the World Cup just how good a game plan that is if you've got someone like George Ford but yeah
• 20:50
  we had a lot of it the weekend sound printer gas did it as well yeah if I suppose if it was that
• 20:56
  impactful you would probably see it more or whenever you have these patches of drop goals in games
• 21:01
  you see it last for longer or be more established if it does then we'll then we'll start
• 21:10
  lobbying world will be for points difference I mean I chose the subject Ricardo because I'm
• 21:16
  just about crying here but did anyone watch the the Argentinian soccer team against the
• 21:22
  Scottish rugby team because they got down to 11 they got down to 11 can you believe the
• 21:28
  referendum ending those two boys off for a for a handbag throw and that already guys off the field
• 21:35
  you just warned both of them and leave them on so he sends like I'm going what is going on here
• 21:42
  like to be fair I didn't watch the whole game I watched the extended highlights because I got
• 21:46
  home last night and watched all the footy but I'm going what is going on with our game like
• 21:54
  but I wasn't going to ask Victor about the red card this week no I'm just I promise you I
• 22:00
  think wall track be is bugging off our game I mean I was so frustrated in that game against Italy
• 22:07
  I mean that first 40 minutes every time they just stop each they go to the TMO they change things
• 22:13
  then they you could see there it was a local producers while every move he tries and go back and
• 22:20
  show something of a high hit it's just crazy we rack be as going at the moment I think we just
• 22:26
  need to throw away all cards go back to penalties and if you think even with a tap down if you think
• 22:31
  give them a penalty try and go back play 15 on 15 I mean let's say let's skip easier penalty trials
• 22:39
  but all these cards and all the changes and go back and have a look I mean we killing the game
• 22:46
  at this stage and yeah that red card of South Africa I could probably show five six incidents in
• 22:52
  the other games exactly the same and no red card so everything is inconsistent at the moment
• 22:59
  when our game gets down to 11 players on the field right against 15 or 14 at one stage when
• 23:07
  you look at that and I'm not talking about the South African game I'm talking about the Argentinian
• 23:15
  game right that is there is absolutely no way in international rugby that we should be getting
• 23:21
  down to 11 men right so Brent Robinson who came in and said he was going to be a chairman and
• 23:27
  make change we're not we're not even getting no one's coming out on a Monday and talking about
• 23:32
  this we're the only people talking about it where are where are the leaders where is the leadership
• 23:38
  in world rugby addressing this problem because it's just continuing to frustrate me right and
• 23:44
  yet did you did you I mean I was trying to listen to the the the Argentinian captain just going to
• 23:51
  the ref like mate do you want to play soccer like okay isn't it isn't it time for the coaches to
• 23:59
  stand up I mean it's we abundance when we on the side and we fans actually but I think it's time
• 24:06
  for the coaches to stand up and say listen we need to look at this uh we've got a lovely game
• 24:13
  everyone loves it I mean if you look at all these games the people um that's at the games they want
• 24:20
  to watch the spectacle at the moment the race is just taking it over. Victor I disagree with you
• 24:28
  rugby people love the out game we love it out game but if you go to Chicago we wouldn't know
• 24:33
  what the hell was going on for 50 minutes and there's no disrespect to to both teams like it was
• 24:39
  just a frustrating game of 55 for the 50 minutes right so like we're trying to get new people to
• 24:46
  come to our game they go away bewildered and this is so in world rugby say we want to grey out a
• 24:51
  game it needs to be um a little bit of soul searching to say well we're going to love it our game
• 24:56
  right we're going to love it regardless but new people coming in the game they go what is this
• 25:03
  what is this shit it's I think it's a it's kind of a snobbery within rugby where we say oh well
• 25:09
  the the laws are complex if there's a lock on on there's long conversations and the refs coming
• 25:15
  out with all these little buzzwords and having you know kind of meetings with touch judges and TMOs and
• 25:21
  it's all just it's all just it's bored it's generally boring now every now and again like at the end
• 25:26
  of the wheels game there was a bit of drama and I was kind of I thought it was the first time I thought
• 25:32
  oh actually I'm interested to see what the ref has to say here or out of crucial moment in the game
• 25:37
  but generally it's just boring it distracts from the the product as you say Victor our product is
• 25:45
  when when it's fast-paced physical clashes you know all that good stuff we love that and that's
• 25:51
  the thing that's going to grow our game not listening to refs um mitigate and kind of find ways
• 25:58
  to to not make it their fault or not make decisions or just make the game about them we want the
• 26:04
  game to be about the product not the referees well I'll tell you what's happening in the big
• 26:10
  in the big games and and this is happening more and more so the referee and this is nothing against
• 26:16
  the referees they are doing what their leadership is telling them but it's about them you know
• 26:21
  they've got the meeting the cameras on them they're looking at the big screen like the TMOs coming
• 26:25
  into it's about them the game is more about them than actually the game at the moment and that
• 26:30
  really frustrates me so that's leadership don't blame the ref might that's leadership because
• 26:36
  it's like um you know someone asked me yesterday about you know should we sack the coach
• 26:43
  at the end the buck stops at the coach if your team's not playing well and it's losing you get
• 26:49
  questioned and all the coaches get that but right now what's happening is I don't think the referee
• 26:56
  leadership is taking responsibility for what's happening our game should never get down to
• 27:01
  11 me right and we should meeting and our game shouldn't like like we've got two choices like
• 27:08
  trombie you said right our game when it's played amazingly with a great referee who actually
• 27:14
  disappears you don't notice him it's a fantastic game but this starts like game that we've got
• 27:22
  is so we've got to go two choices where I think why they go like American football but then we've
• 27:26
  got to we've got to change our stadium so that they can deliver a beer in a hot dog while these
• 27:31
  bloody refs are talking for five minutes and we go for three hours that's our choice right now so
• 27:36
  we need to go okay let's play four quarters let's deliver hot dogs and beers and and stuff to us
• 27:42
  while we're sitting around rather than looking at our phones all we've got to get speed our gamer right
• 27:49
  well I think Gracie and Eddie Jones came out this weekend and Eddie said that I mean yes player safety
• 27:56
  we want to look after our players but I always say fewer boxer your UFC fighter you're going to
• 28:03
  get punched in the face we pick to play rugby we're going to have contact there's going to be
• 28:09
  hit contact we still love the game that's why we play the game I mean give the penalty and let's
• 28:15
  go on yeah I think we went completely too far with player safety at the moment yes if there's
• 28:23
  intent to hurt someone I'm not for that that must be a car or whatever but if it's a rugby incident
• 28:30
  we need to move on and all I mean even the intercepts giving yellows and all these things I think
• 28:36
  we're killing our game yeah no and and look I don't think and so we're in garage should be yellow
• 28:42
  but I actually don't I haven't seen a lot of mellus in our game for a long long time there's no
• 28:48
  there used to be mellus when we played right so Jake if you go back to your days remember kick off
• 28:53
  and then it was 10 on 10 punching each other we don't want that in the game right but I mean
• 28:58
  there's nothing of that anymore you don't see it it's a clean game if you go back or people
• 29:04
  rocking each other jumping on each other 16 studs remember those days when someone was on the
• 29:09
  wrong side I remember the changing room you know sometimes buck shelf is back and some of the
• 29:20
  forwards backs would be like they would have bleeding from the rucking you know yeah so no we don't
• 29:26
  want to go back to that but what's happening at the moment is I think if we don't change
• 29:33
  um thus you're going to get frustrated so get back to the point we're we're only using
• 29:39
  technology to have three refs meet in the middle and watch the big screen let's use technology
• 29:45
  okay so where are the coaches and the players responsible the players and the coaches are responsible
• 29:50
  for training during the week how you tackle right and I've said it again it needs to go on the
• 29:56
  angle of the tackle right so if you're up right but let's deal with it on Monday put them on
• 30:01
  card let's deal with it on Monday and make the sanctions severe for the players yeah I agree
• 30:08
  this is this is you are on report and Monday night discipline is going to deal with it but if you
• 30:13
  if we found that you're technically wrong you've injured someone or whatever then you know you're
• 30:19
  out for six weeks and we're going to occupy I don't make it make it whatever it needs to be made
• 30:25
  to make it a put but don't do not um do not make this the long serving fan suffer all right and
• 30:33
  we now talk about the I think we talk about this too much and I think we've done enough I mean look
• 30:39
  it we've got some good news this week because trimby you're getting the chance to welcome
• 30:43
  South Africa to to your homeland you know I mean that must be so exciting for you
• 30:49
  yeah we're so excited we're we are we are definitely more excited now than we were last week
• 30:57
  because we saw Ireland not quite returned to where they were at their peak 18 months ago 24 months
• 31:04
  ago but certainly take a step back there the big asterisk trying that is our Ireland really there
• 31:11
  or or is really a tired have they really dropped off where we saw them in the summer on the
• 31:15
  Lancer and at the start of the rugby championship so that's the big asterisk but it was very
• 31:21
  encouraging to see Ireland play a bit more rugby get back into that that sheep that just
• 31:26
  pulls defenders out and put and goes through lovely skillset from from a few guys just they played
• 31:31
  with a bit of tempo we're talking about that balance like James gives him park tap and go on
• 31:36
  is just a mechanism to get tempo into Ireland's game and when they've got tempo they go well
• 31:42
  they also made a few changes Paddy McCarthy stepped up at scrum time again stepping up and
• 31:48
  us being optimistic optimistic at scrum time is one thing but when you play in the spring box
• 31:53
  you need to be way more than just a little bit optimistic or hopeful so it's going to be a huge
• 31:59
  challenge but and this certainly doesn't mean that Ireland are walking into a kaka hoop but they've
• 32:04
  got a little bit more to rely on but this I think it's going to be a huge task for them but I think
• 32:10
  what you would have been disappointed with Trumbi in in Chicago was you know not seeing what we're
• 32:18
  now regarding is your DNA you know those quick taps those you know getting some tempo into the game
• 32:23
  I thought Jamison Gibson Park was outstanding you know we've got some pretty special halfbacks
• 32:28
  around at the moment but I agree I think if you you know if you if you you've got to try and
• 32:34
  with South Africa obviously you've got to your scrum is going to have to be great you know your
• 32:38
  lineup has to be confident you're high ball that but you're actually going to try and impose
• 32:42
  the way you want to play on South Africa if you go out there I believe and try and stop any part
• 32:47
  of the game you'll get crushed so you've got to have the courage to to play that game you know
• 32:53
  for 80 minutes yeah it's going to be a tough game I mean South Africa hasn't beaten or
• 32:59
  rusty that's the only city where he hasn't won is Dublin so it's going to be a big challenge
• 33:05
  I thought Ireland were outstanding this weekend I thought they really
• 33:10
  went back to what we got used to over the last few years Trumbi do you think
• 33:14
  Fabregas is shown he's the number one ten now Fabregas the Fabregas Spanish footballer
• 33:21
  I will he tackles like a Spanish footballer I wanted to ask if he's a number ten are you a bit
• 33:27
  worried about these two things at the moment but Victor I was going to ask you exactly this
• 33:31
  same thing so Sam Prandtagas I mean his performance of the weekend with ball and hand his
• 33:36
  distribution the fears play the sheep getting his team row in the park and I think he does that
• 33:42
  bit like it's it's Johnny sexton asked in terms of his decision making and his execution his
• 33:48
  kicking game at the line as well it's very very good he is absolutely excellent in that area
• 33:53
  and it's just such a shame he can't compliment that with a little bit of being a bit more robust
• 33:58
  and defense he really I thought it was really per the the trifor ikitai and then the mistackle
• 34:05
  on the big winger Australian winger outside really per really per such a shame because
• 34:13
  if he can add something meaningful in that area of his game then he's looking like the complete
• 34:18
  package but it's such a glaring omission from what he does and it's only because he's so
• 34:23
  absolutely brilliant in other areas but I mean that's the area that spring box are going to
• 34:28
  expose this weekend that's exactly the question I'm just going to ask you Victor will they show
• 34:33
  montage of his mistackles and say this is the channel that we're going to get soft shoulder
• 34:38
  yeah I think they'll definitely try and target him but I believe Ireland will probably from first
• 34:47
  phase put him out at fullback on the wing so then we'll probably have to go for the cross kicks
• 34:52
  or whatever but I mean if you're out of scrum can be strong and he was defending at this normal
• 34:57
  position I think that will be a big target they mean they're going straight at him maybe even
• 35:04
  under-estraising from the blindside flank or whatever but yeah I think that will be a big target
• 35:10
  by I believe if Ireland want to be South Africa they need him at 10 they need their attacking game
• 35:17
  that the whole world is so scared of once they get that ball go to the line have all the options
• 35:23
  they're probably needing I don't think they will come out and just beat South Africa with a kicking
• 35:28
  game they need to have their attacking game as well this is why I'd be a little bit so when you play
• 35:34
  South Africa what do you do do you go toe to toe are trying to match their physicality and then
• 35:39
  you know play with peace and try and put guys through halls with skill set I don't think you do
• 35:44
  I think if you play anything like the way South Africa want to play you'll always be second best
• 35:49
  but one of Ireland on in terms of selection they've gone bulky backroof so killing to the
• 35:53
  Doris has gone to seven they went McCluskey and and Hensho on the center they've got Paddy McCarthy
• 36:00
  in there at Lucid it kind of feels like they've gone okay let's go big because we need and I think
• 36:04
  the selection for Australia was addressed rehearsal for South Africa wasn't about Australia but for
• 36:10
  me I don't think that's how you that's how you win against South Africa you do something completely
• 36:14
  different because you can't be the best of that but if you go physical then you go well we're always
• 36:20
  going to be chasing our teal a little bit hopefully then you're going to add to that compliment that
• 36:25
  with well killing Doris is not just physicality he is skill set someone like Stuart McCluskey in the center
• 36:30
  he is skill set because he's going to bring that off load so hopefully that's the case but he
• 36:35
  I was very encouraged in just the Ireland just so glimpses of what we've seen from them in the past
• 36:40
  but it'll be an 80 minute performance they'll need to do that constantly freedom minutes up that
• 36:45
  tempo and then once it gets to 60 55 minutes and they bring on the ball and it's gone then you have
• 36:51
  to up that tempo even more to tie our fresh legs so it's it's going to be a huge challenge for Ireland
• 36:56
  but at least they've shown something I actually thought Andrew Porter was really good off the bench
• 37:03
  he had a big impact coming on that second half big impact in the game as well I was thinking about
• 37:08
  you Victor because I know you said this before whenever Razzie meet those changes then what's he
• 37:13
  thinking I you mentioned this on one of our shows before well the guys who've just got taken out
• 37:19
  they're going to respond so that's exactly the time whenever you're going to get a response
• 37:23
  report you're going to get a response from Gary ring roos when Hugo Keenan came me else born
• 37:28
  come back because my cousin knows plan 15 and Tommy O'Brien's and the wing you go that
• 37:32
  physicality and athleticism there you're going to get reaction from those guys as well it's just a
• 37:36
  bit managing people and their emotions and hide that what what their incentive is and I remember
• 37:42
  you saying that's how you Razzie razoos would organize this and it feels like finals doing something
• 37:47
  similar well if you want to win you got to lead and I think Ressie is leading right so other teams
• 37:52
  are going okay what are what are we taking out of the world champions game what do we need to
• 37:56
  implement in the hours and and I think you know the reserves the reserves is you know the impact is
• 38:02
  unbelievable you know when you talk about impact you know trimby the game that we beat you guys
• 38:08
  and Chicago was about our bench coming on and lighting it up you know so you've got to get those
• 38:13
  things right it's a 23 man game now right and often what what people don't see it's actually the
• 38:19
  off the ball where the energy comes from you know you I always say look at a rugby team and
• 38:25
  and you'll see a happy rugby team if everyone's charging round without the ball you know there's
• 38:30
  all that energy and I think Eddie Jones mentioned that the other day you know he's talking about
• 38:35
  talking about the energy off the ball and I think that's if you want to beat the South African
• 38:40
  team we used to say this about the all blacks all the time you know you've got to play for 80 minutes
• 38:46
  you've got to play for 80 minutes you know I think with with with Prindergast you know
• 38:51
  he shouldn't try and be sexton right because sexton was a great defender you know
• 38:56
  to get up and bash people right like fun Russell how good is fun Russell you know and everyone
• 39:02
  sees fun's Russell's attack but shitty can tackle but all he needs to do is tackle doesn't
• 39:09
  that doesn't need to be pretty he could be brave he needs to be brave that's a great word you
• 39:13
  just got to get up and you just got to get in the way be a jutter bar if you have to be right
• 39:18
  to help you lose forwards get there and help him but you the balance you're going to have to make
• 39:23
  when when you know as a player he's going to have to say right I need to be brave there but it's
• 39:28
  also a mindset great great great standoffs great first five have this mindset because defense is
• 39:35
  a mindset and he might just need to flick his mindset he might already be brave but when you
• 39:39
  thinking about you know attacking all the time it's a split second and then you've got to turn
• 39:45
  you know put that tackle head on but if he doesn't you're lose I think who needs to be brave
• 39:51
  on on the weekend is is Dublin because aren't you going there Victor I'm going I'll be there
• 39:58
  on Thursday night I won't be swimming in the cold sea I'll be in the Irish pubs waiting for
• 40:04
  to come join me for 72 hours just constant rugby analysis for 72 hours that's it you know they
• 40:14
  just call them pubs in Ireland they don't call them Irish pubs is it okay these different ones
• 40:21
  I've already we I went through the 10 best pubs in Dublin so I've got a few I need to go visit
• 40:28
  you've always been big on prep that's that's an important part of your game isn't it
• 40:32
  and I'm taking my brandy with I'm taking two bottles I think I can take two bottles so try
• 40:36
  me maybe I'll have a little taste for you I was like I put it like shit stick it forward nicely for
• 40:45
  you I've been a little bit of advice stick to the Guinness mate yeah I wouldn't go I wouldn't go
• 40:49
  that I wouldn't go the brandy way now let me need to be some sort of bet between the two of you they
• 40:55
  I was hoping I was hoping that I was going to get to that but they're both obviously a bit scared
• 40:59
  I'll get the I'll get in the water I mean I'm keen but Victor is the rule that I before he
• 41:04
  became a question there I'll drink something I'm not getting cold order this no chance what
• 41:13
  the water in Dublin will be colder than the water in Lake Michigan I was going to say where would
• 41:17
  you go where would you go for a dip in in Dublin I had done leery the 40 foot it'll it'll be
• 41:23
  it'll not just be us it was just us in Michigan and Lake Michigan JK will be 50 other people
• 41:28
  than there it's Sunday morning really yeah yeah okay so I'll put my little fox speeder in for
• 41:36
  in case but luckily we want to use I'll be fine well finally the mask slaps the double world
• 41:44
  champions yeah you'd be way too humble for this last day half an hour and you didn't actually talk
• 41:51
  we haven't actually talked about the South African guy it's nothing but we talked about the race
• 41:56
  bugged it up completely he just took away the game but again I mean they they stuck to it
• 42:03
  rusty made four changes within 20 minutes C.I. was off Jason Dixon was off so no it's not
• 42:12
  something to talk about let's talk about islands how they're coming up I think I was so not
• 42:18
  I think so I forgot my struggle to play with 50 man because they're they they don't know I haven't
• 42:23
  done it in weeks well do we do we say do we say that if well Aussie haven't helped us I guess but
• 42:33
  you know Ricardo you asked us whether the Northern hemisphere or the Southern hemisphere is going to win
• 42:38
  so I guess it comes down to this weekend does it yeah I think the Northern hemisphere has done
• 42:43
  really well and we as the Southern hemisphere must be worried well you know all this will be much
• 42:50
  more dominant but why don't you come back to super rugby then Victor who's you guys going to
• 42:55
  afford us sounds like it I don't know there was cash in Europe isn't there yes the hero the euro
• 43:04
  yeah okay once they start talking about money it's always a good time to end the show
• 43:08
  um can't wait to see what happens on the weekend with uh who ends up getting wet in um
• 43:16
  Dublin I I've got this feeling it's going to be you trimby whether you win or lose I think you're
• 43:21
  going in the water yeah so we'll catch a next week on rugby rock I just I just want to say trimby
• 43:26
  there's a lot of South Africans coming over I thought because the visas so hard to get to
• 43:32
  takes like three months together visa to get to Ireland but the people are so excited and
• 43:38
  like coming over thousands and thousands of people so it's going to be such a lack of hype yeah
• 43:44
  look forward to it fired up good luck