Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Greg Wukasch: Leading with Humanity | Make Water Work 025

Transcript

Greg Wukasch: Leading with Humanity | Make Water Work 025 · Make Water Work Podcast

• 0:00
  what if they go on Facebook and start
• 0:02
  screaming about us and griping about us?
• 0:04
  And my answer to that is, well, they're
• 0:06
  already doing it. And so, are you going
• 0:07
  to have a seat at the at the table in
• 0:09
  that conversation or not? Are you going
• 0:10
  to be able to come in to that
• 0:12
  conversation and say, "Yeah, I
• 0:13
  understand your frustrations, but here's
• 0:15
  our perspective on things." Right? You
• 0:16
  know, my dad told me when I first got
• 0:18
  into this industry serving the
• 0:19
  community, he said, "Son, you're going
• 0:20
  to be damned if you do and damned if you
• 0:22
  don't. This is the work that we've sort
• 0:24
  of signed up to do." um and not be
• 0:26
  afraid of our shadow and especially not
• 0:29
  be afraid of the community.
• 0:31
  >> Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast
• 0:33
  where we dive into the people, ideas,
• 0:36
  and innovation shaping the future of
• 0:38
  water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
• 0:41
  and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
• 0:43
  the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
• 0:46
  insights from hundreds of incredible
• 0:48
  conversations we've had over the past 9
• 0:51
  years with inspiring and energizing
• 0:53
  leaders in the water industry. Each
• 0:56
  week, we share those stories and
• 0:58
  conversations with entrepreneurs,
• 1:00
  community champions, and innovators who
• 1:02
  are making water work for everyone.
• 1:05
  Whether you're a water professional, a
• 1:07
  curious innovator, or simply passionate
• 1:09
  about our most precious resource, this
• 1:12
  podcast is for you. Let's get started.
• 1:17
  Well, hello everyone and welcome to this
• 1:19
  week's Make Waterwork podcast where we
• 1:21
  are celebrating the professionals that
• 1:22
  are innovating and serving our industry.
• 1:25
  Isaac, who do we have on the podcast
• 1:27
  today?
• 1:28
  >> I'm very excited about today's guest.
• 1:31
  Um, Greg Wukash is um an incredible
• 1:36
  leader in the water industry. I feel
• 1:38
  like anyone who I've talked to who is um
• 1:41
  a young professional in water who um
• 1:44
  talks about who inspires them kind of
• 1:47
  draws a line um draws a line to Greg.
• 1:49
  And so um Greg, welcome to the Make
• 1:54
  Waterwork podcast. um we've had so much
• 1:57
  time to um meet each other in a few
• 2:00
  contexts over the past couple years, but
• 2:02
  um yeah, I'm really excited to dive into
• 2:04
  your story.
• 2:05
  >> Hey, well, good morning. Thank you all
• 2:07
  so much for having me here. I I am
• 2:09
  completely honored uh to be a guest on
• 2:12
  on uh on your on your podcast. For sure.
• 2:14
  Thank you.
• 2:15
  >> The honor is all ours.
• 2:17
  >> Yeah.
• 2:18
  And we, one of the things that we love
• 2:21
  about doing this podcast and having um
• 2:24
  having this opportunity to um have
• 2:26
  conversations like this is really to
• 2:28
  dive into the story. And so we've never
• 2:30
  met anyone who doesn't have a story
• 2:32
  about how water found them. And so
• 2:34
  that's where we start. So Greg, how did
• 2:36
  water find you?
• 2:37
  >> Yeah, it it's such a great question. And
• 2:40
  I I like to say that I think I was wooed
• 2:42
  into water uh probably in elementary
• 2:46
  school age. I grew up on the Texas
• 2:48
  coast, one mile from the bay and so it
• 2:53
  was my kind of play place after school.
• 2:56
  My friends and I would would go down um
• 2:58
  to the to the banks of the bay and um
• 3:01
  you know kind of mess around down there.
• 3:03
  I'm sure we did a lot of things back
• 3:05
  then that you know my parents I think
• 3:07
  even today when I mention it they're
• 3:08
  like I can't believe you got away with
• 3:09
  that. But um you know down down in a big
• 3:12
  body of water as an elementary school
• 3:14
  kid, me and my friends doing stuff, they
• 3:15
  just they kind of always freak out about
• 3:18
  that. But um I I would say that that
• 3:20
  really, you know, set the tone for kind
• 3:22
  of me and water. And not only did I live
• 3:24
  a mile from the bay, I also just lived a
• 3:27
  couple blocks from a from a little creek
• 3:28
  in our neighborhood called Lind Bayou.
• 3:31
  And that creek really shaped me at an
• 3:34
  early age. Um, again, if we weren't at
• 3:36
  the bay, we were down at that creek, you
• 3:38
  know, catching all kinds of critters and
• 3:40
  and just um kind of understanding what
• 3:42
  that waterway was all about. Um, when uh
• 3:46
  when it would flood, I would beg my
• 3:48
  parents to drive me down to the creek
• 3:51
  and we would sit in our car on the other
• 3:52
  side of the barricade and watch the
• 3:54
  water flowing um down that creek. And
• 3:57
  that's one of the reasons I think today
• 3:59
  that I have this kind of
• 4:01
  >> fascination with flooding um and and uh
• 4:04
  and creeks and rivers and wersheds and
• 4:06
  how that all you know works.
• 4:08
  >> Um and and and I'll tell you just real
• 4:10
  quickly one Saturday we decided we
• 4:12
  wanted to see that entire creek. We
• 4:14
  wanted to see where it actually the
• 4:15
  headwaters were all the way till it
• 4:17
  emptied into the bay. And the creek
• 4:19
  itself was really only about a mile and
• 4:21
  a half long cuz I live down on the
• 4:22
  coast. And one Saturday we did, we
• 4:25
  walked upstream uh we found where it
• 4:27
  kind of bubbled out of the ground and
• 4:29
  then we walked uh and had our bicycles
• 4:31
  and followed it all the way down until
• 4:33
  it went right into the bay. So that was
• 4:35
  that was our creek. That was our stream.
• 4:37
  Uh so between that and and the bay, I
• 4:41
  think water wooed me at a very early
• 4:44
  age. I don't think I was going to be
• 4:45
  able to necessarily get away from it
• 4:47
  later on in life.
• 4:48
  >> That's awesome. And from that from that
• 4:52
  vantage point of just being, you know,
• 4:53
  literally surrounded by water and and um
• 4:57
  uh where it was deeply embedded, um walk
• 5:00
  us through how that led into your
• 5:02
  professional career um at San Antonio.
• 5:07
  >> Yeah. Well, you know, I I I I think
• 5:09
  think probably most of your guests would
• 5:11
  would admit and say that water, you
• 5:13
  know, found them at some point, but, you
• 5:16
  know, I don't think I ever then said,
• 5:17
  "Oh, I'm going to go into the water
• 5:18
  industry someday." I mean, that was not,
• 5:20
  >> you know, that was not the dream.
• 5:22
  >> Uh, my dream actually was to be in the
• 5:24
  theme park business and theme park
• 5:26
  industry. Um, and that was another love
• 5:28
  of mine at an early age. And so, I
• 5:30
  actually began to pursue that. And, um,
• 5:33
  I did go to school to actually get a
• 5:35
  degree that would help me in that
• 5:36
  industry. And um I did actually get into
• 5:39
  the industry. I was working what brought
• 5:41
  me to San Antonio was I was working for
• 5:43
  the Six Flags company and they had
• 5:45
  purchased uh Fiesta Texas and so I was I
• 5:47
  was working here for them and really
• 5:50
  planned on making that my entire career.
• 5:52
  Um but there was something that was kind
• 5:54
  of like bubbling up inside of me
• 5:57
  that was and there's a great metaphor,
• 5:59
  right? Um bubbling up inside of me that
• 6:02
  um I wanted to really do something that
• 6:05
  served the community. Yeah,
• 6:06
  >> that really served the community and I
• 6:09
  really wanted to do it in the
• 6:10
  environmental space.
• 6:11
  >> And I had come across some information
• 6:13
  about the Edwards aquifer and I began to
• 6:15
  really dive into that and learn more
• 6:17
  about that and understand more about
• 6:18
  that and and so yeah, I I really wanted
• 6:21
  to uh to get involved in in that and um
• 6:25
  so um the theme park industry is very
• 6:29
  volatile. I got I got laid off. Um, and
• 6:32
  within that period of time, I had a
• 6:34
  friend of mine that said, "Hey, we're
• 6:35
  looking for somebody at the San Antonio
• 6:36
  Water System who can go out and speak to
• 6:39
  community, especially kids, about water
• 6:41
  and the environment."
• 6:43
  >> I remember when he told me that one
• 6:45
  night, we were having drinks. He told me
• 6:46
  that and I I I knew in that moment, I'm
• 6:48
  like, "That is my job." Like, that has
• 6:51
  to be my job. I have to get that job.
• 6:53
  >> Yeah. I love it. And um sure enough, he
• 6:56
  uh was able to, you know, connect me to
• 6:57
  the to the department that was hiring
• 6:59
  and I went in for an interview. And I
• 7:01
  say that I was probably hired the
• 7:03
  quickest of anybody at the San Antonio
• 7:05
  Water System ever. Um I feel like uh in
• 7:07
  utility world, you you get an interview
• 7:09
  and you hear for a number of months.
• 7:12
  They called me back that afternoon and
• 7:14
  offered me the position. So um I was I
• 7:17
  was in saw a San Antonio water system
• 7:20
  within two weeks um after that. Well,
• 7:23
  I'm just that's so fascinating. What um
• 7:26
  why do you think that that was, Greg?
• 7:28
  What what kind of skills do you think
• 7:30
  you brought from your background that
• 7:32
  they immediately said, "We're not going
• 7:33
  to let this guy go?"
• 7:35
  >> Yeah. I was actually told by the hiring
• 7:37
  manager at the time that um and I I
• 7:40
  remember in the interview they asked me
• 7:41
  some questions specifically about storm
• 7:42
  water, which is where I was going to be
• 7:44
  spending most of my time uh talking
• 7:46
  about storm water issues. And I really
• 7:48
  didn't know very much about storm water.
• 7:50
  And I was honest about that. But what
• 7:52
  she told me later was is I had this this
• 7:55
  passion and and this way about me that
• 7:58
  um a communication way about me that I
• 8:00
  could communicate with people. And she
• 8:02
  she told me she said, "You know, I we
• 8:04
  can teach you all the stuff about water
• 8:06
  while you're here. You'll learn the
• 8:07
  stuff about water, but one of the things
• 8:09
  that's going to be really hard to teach
• 8:11
  is this passion and this style of
• 8:13
  communication that you have and and a
• 8:15
  way that you connect with people." And I
• 8:17
  really, you know, I that I really
• 8:19
  appreciated them giving me the
• 8:20
  opportunity. I think sometimes we uh we
• 8:22
  look at people and look at their skill
• 8:24
  level, their their I'm sorry, their
• 8:26
  knowledge level of how much they know
• 8:27
  about water and then those are the
• 8:29
  people we we we sometimes tend to hire
• 8:31
  versus looking past that saying, you
• 8:32
  know, I can I can teach that later. What
• 8:35
  what you have some intangibles here that
• 8:36
  I'm not going to necessarily be able to
• 8:38
  teach.
• 8:39
  >> That lesson stuck with me for many many
• 8:41
  years. And in fact, I when I hire people
• 8:42
  today, that's one of the things I look
• 8:45
  at is I look at how well they're going
• 8:46
  to connect with people, connect with the
• 8:48
  community. And so I think maybe that
• 8:51
  allowed me to showcase that in the in
• 8:52
  the interview and and I think maybe she
• 8:54
  saw that in me and again one of one of
• 8:58
  um multitude of leaders in my life that
• 9:01
  have taught me incredible lessons that
• 9:02
  still carry on um to this day.
• 9:04
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 9:06
  >> That's awesome. That is that is I think
• 9:08
  that's um that resonates because you
• 9:10
  know one at 120 we've hired you know
• 9:12
  hundreds of folks and majority of them
• 9:15
  not from water and and um and you know
• 9:17
  initially it can be very intimidating
• 9:19
  Greg and and they'll even say I feel
• 9:20
  like I go into my first meeting I have
• 9:22
  imposttor syndrome and and I say listen
• 9:24
  no you know you have curiosity you know
• 9:26
  you you want to serve the customer but
• 9:28
  I'm I'm curious around your tenure
• 9:30
  career what are some tools that you give
• 9:33
  folks maybe entering water for the first
• 9:35
  time to get them more comfortable having
• 9:38
  those first conversations or to give
• 9:40
  them permission to have curiosity to ask
• 9:42
  questions and learn. Any practical
• 9:44
  advice you would give for, you know,
• 9:47
  folks new entering the water? Yeah, I I
• 9:51
  one of the things I I I I kind of
• 9:54
  advise, you know, younger people and and
• 9:56
  and anymore when I hire my own staff
• 9:58
  members and I've been able to um through
• 9:59
  the last number of years really put
• 10:01
  together a a really great team and be
• 10:03
  able to hire those those folks in is is
• 10:06
  to be curious and to learn as much as
• 10:08
  you possibly can and practically don't
• 10:10
  pass up opportunities when they come
• 10:12
  your way. Um, I know that early on in my
• 10:15
  industry, in my time coming into the
• 10:17
  industry, like I said, I didn't really
• 10:19
  know much about water.
• 10:20
  >> But when somebody would say to me things
• 10:22
  like, "Hey, we're going to" and and let
• 10:24
  me let me preface this by saying that I
• 10:26
  I call the sort of the old old the old
• 10:29
  days when I first started at SAS. I've
• 10:31
  been there almost 30 years. Um, you
• 10:33
  know, kind of the wild west days. There
• 10:35
  was a there was a lot of things that we
• 10:36
  probably did back then that absolutely
• 10:38
  couldn't get away with now. But um you
• 10:41
  know I I would I remember in the first
• 10:42
  year or two somebody came to me and
• 10:44
  said, "Hey, we just discovered a new a
• 10:46
  new sinkhole that we think is is going
• 10:48
  to go down to the Edwards aquifer. Would
• 10:49
  you would you like to go with us and go
• 10:50
  into the sinkhole?" Heck
• 10:52
  >> yeah.
• 10:52
  >> And and I I didn't really have any any
• 10:54
  training or anything. And so, you know,
• 10:55
  we but we went out and there it was. And
• 10:58
  a couple of us and and and the folks I
• 11:00
  was with, they were hydro geologist. And
• 11:02
  so uh but I but I followed them into
• 11:04
  this, you know, into this uh sinkhole
• 11:06
  and we we discovered that it opened up
• 11:07
  into a really great cave. And we
• 11:09
  continued downward uh doing that until
• 11:11
  we found out that there wasn't a lot of
• 11:13
  oxygen. And so, of course, we had to
• 11:14
  back out of that.
• 11:16
  >> But I tell you that because that was an
• 11:17
  opportunity that was given to me to to
• 11:20
  understand the the geology of San
• 11:23
  Antonio by going into a cave. I also got
• 11:25
  to go see a well being drilled for the
• 11:27
  first time. Somebody said, "Hey, you
• 11:28
  want to go out? We're drilling a brand
• 11:29
  new well. You want to go see it?" And I
• 11:31
  was like, "Yes." And so the the advice
• 11:33
  that I give today is when those
• 11:34
  opportunities come your way um and and
• 11:37
  you think to yourself, well actually I I
• 11:39
  don't drill wells for a living, right?
• 11:41
  Or I don't I'm not a geologist or hydro
• 11:43
  geologist for a living. And so you know
• 11:45
  that that that's not really for me. I
• 11:48
  say go to every experience that you have
• 11:50
  an opportunity to go because you're
• 11:52
  going to learn something about water and
• 11:53
  the work we do and our community. Don't
• 11:56
  say no to those opportunities. And uh
• 11:59
  that really shaped me early that I think
• 12:01
  I was willing to say, "Yeah, I want to
• 12:04
  go see what a storm drain looks like.
• 12:05
  Yeah, I want to go see a well being
• 12:06
  drilled. Yeah, I want to go see a
• 12:08
  sinkhole." Um I said yes to a lot of
• 12:10
  things. That was my those were my
• 12:13
  education. That was my education, right?
• 12:16
  That's how I learned about water.
• 12:17
  >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's fascinating. And I
• 12:20
  I almost can like with with you talking
• 12:22
  about your your origin story, I can draw
• 12:25
  some of those parallels between your
• 12:27
  passion for experience design in theme
• 12:31
  park and then thinking about, hey, how
• 12:34
  do we build an experience for the folks
• 12:38
  working at San Antonio to communicate
• 12:39
  better or build a bridge or um then the
• 12:42
  other work that you do in um building
• 12:46
  building the experience so the
• 12:47
  conditions are right to nurture new
• 12:49
  leaders and nurture nurture other folks.
• 12:51
  And so, um,
• 12:53
  >> yeah, that it's one of those things
• 12:54
  where all of a sudden you the it clicks
• 12:56
  and I'm like, you you really never
• 12:58
  stopped having a passion for theme park
• 13:01
  design.
• 13:02
  >> You're just bringing all of that.
• 13:04
  >> You're right. And and first of all, I
• 13:05
  just want to say thank you for for
• 13:06
  seeing that because very few people do
• 13:09
  see that. I've written about it a lot in
• 13:11
  my journals um about uh the fact of that
• 13:14
  connection that I I I have been from uh
• 13:18
  many many years an experienced designer
• 13:20
  and I really want people to experience
• 13:22
  things not just learn um you know not
• 13:25
  just hear but to actually u physically
• 13:28
  experience it. I think I think that is
• 13:30
  the best learning style that you
• 13:31
  possibly can have.
• 13:32
  >> Yeah, totally agree. And one of my first
• 13:35
  introductions to you was through um
• 13:37
  Rogue Water Labs way back in the day. Um
• 13:40
  Arian Shipley um and Stephanie um when
• 13:45
  they had their podcast and I met them in
• 13:48
  like I don't know my first 30 days
• 13:50
  working at 120 back in 2018. They had
• 13:52
  just done their first episode and they
• 13:54
  were like well there's this guy Greg and
• 13:56
  then then Catalyst took off. Now Chelsea
• 13:59
  who's been on the podcast is um running
• 14:01
  that and you're a big part of that. Um
• 14:03
  and that's another experience design
• 14:05
  where um let's talk a little bit about
• 14:08
  catalyst and the community around
• 14:10
  catalyst and kind of how you see um that
• 14:13
  has evolved um and what gets you excited
• 14:16
  about the future. What is Catalyst
• 14:18
  again?
• 14:18
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about Catalyst.
• 14:20
  >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah. Cat
• 14:22
  Catalyst is uh I really like to think
• 14:24
  about Catalyst as a movement. I think
• 14:27
  we've been trying to put sort of
• 14:28
  language around it for a number of
• 14:29
  years, but I but I really look at it as
• 14:31
  as sort of a movement and it's the idea
• 14:34
  that that it's a it's a gathering of of
• 14:36
  like-minded people who are looking for
• 14:39
  something a little bit different um to
• 14:41
  kind of come together and and and be
• 14:43
  inspired and be encouraged and encourage
• 14:45
  one another um and and walk away with
• 14:48
  with an understanding of of the work the
• 14:50
  important work that we do and then what
• 14:52
  we can do to catalyze change within our
• 14:54
  own communities. um you know we we we
• 14:58
  are purposeful and and we're very
• 15:00
  serious about the fact that we're
• 15:01
  purposeful about not using the word
• 15:03
  conference around that or speakers or
• 15:06
  sessions or things of that nature. Um,
• 15:08
  we and it and it's not just, you know,
• 15:10
  it's not just us trying to be, I don't
• 15:13
  know, different or rogue, right? It's
• 15:15
  it's really this idea that we believe uh
• 15:18
  words matter and um experiences matter
• 15:21
  and the way that you purposefully
• 15:23
  design. One of the things that we we
• 15:26
  really try to do is is give a little
• 15:28
  insight about how we purposely design
• 15:31
  catalyst so that you can glean some of
• 15:34
  that information to then purposely
• 15:36
  design your own experience in your
• 15:38
  community.
• 15:39
  >> U the idea that that you that everybody
• 15:41
  can can do this. Um it's just
• 15:43
  understanding the tools of it.
• 15:45
  >> Um what I want to say about catalyst is
• 15:48
  is this and I think it's it's
• 15:49
  fascinating. Um,
• 15:52
  I was looking at 20 years into my career
• 15:56
  and I was looking for a place where
• 15:59
  educators and communicators could come
• 16:00
  together
• 16:01
  >> and encourage one another and be
• 16:03
  together and those kind of 20 years into
• 16:04
  my career. I was I was I was needing
• 16:07
  desperately a place like that. And I
• 16:09
  looked around and didn't find anything
• 16:11
  uh except for sessions and and already
• 16:14
  existing conferences and things like
• 16:15
  that, but nothing that was just
• 16:17
  specifically for communicators,
• 16:19
  educators, the work that that I had been
• 16:20
  doing for 20 years. And this is kind of
• 16:23
  my story with a lot of things. I just
• 16:25
  said, "Well, I guess we're going to need
• 16:26
  to start something." Yeah.
• 16:27
  >> And so my co-orker and I saw as we just
• 16:29
  decided to start Catalyst. And
• 16:31
  originally it was to invite Texas people
• 16:33
  to San Antonio um and to have these
• 16:36
  conversations and uh that that from that
• 16:39
  very early on I I got with Rogue Water
• 16:41
  and and got with Stephanie and Arianne
• 16:43
  and and uh they they tell the story that
• 16:45
  I I didn't didn't even come out of my
• 16:47
  mouth to say, "Hey, would y'all be
• 16:48
  willing to and they said yes before I
• 16:50
  think I even got finished with the
• 16:52
  conversation." But um but yeah, it was
• 16:56
  really that it was a it was a need for
• 16:58
  me to find community. And so we created
• 17:01
  community and um and then it just it
• 17:05
  just u took off. It it blossomed from
• 17:07
  there.
• 17:08
  >> And when I when I knew that it was going
• 17:10
  to work was the very last day we were
• 17:14
  all together. It was the last 15 20
• 17:16
  minutes and we asked that you know that
• 17:18
  standard question at the end. We said um
• 17:20
  is there any final questions that
• 17:22
  anybody here would like to to ask? and a
• 17:25
  a more seasoned leader than myself even
• 17:27
  at the time who had been in the industry
• 17:29
  for many many years and I wasn't quite
• 17:31
  sure how she was taking Catalyst over
• 17:33
  the you know uh couple of days cuz it's
• 17:35
  it's much different. She was the first
• 17:38
  to raise her hand and and we called on
• 17:40
  her and she said when are we doing this
• 17:41
  again next year and I knew in that
• 17:44
  moment I was like okay it's not just me
• 17:46
  who really needed this there's so many
• 17:49
  of us in this industry that desperately
• 17:51
  had needed a place to feel like
• 17:54
  um we belong or feel like we could find
• 17:57
  our connection
• 17:58
  >> and um and it's just gone from there.
• 18:00
  It's just taken off uh from there.
• 18:02
  >> Yeah.
• 18:02
  >> And it's so important because
• 18:05
  um we always know that the pressures
• 18:10
  that water utility professionals face
• 18:12
  and water utilities as a whole face are
• 18:14
  only increasing. and and forgetting to
• 18:18
  engage the community is if you don't do
• 18:22
  that early enough, you're going to
• 18:24
  you're going to lose the
• 18:27
  um you're going to lose the the social
• 18:30
  um contract to to be able to
• 18:32
  >> engage. And so, um, it's it's been
• 18:35
  exciting to see how many, um, utilities
• 18:39
  are taking those lessons, how many
• 18:40
  professionals are taking those lessons,
• 18:42
  and, um, lowering the barrier to be
• 18:46
  scared to to engage. Um, don't be afraid
• 18:50
  to say, "Hey, this is our resource as a
• 18:52
  community. How how are we going to
• 18:55
  steward this resource?"
• 18:57
  >> Absolutely. Yeah, that's absolutely
• 18:59
  right. And and I you know again I I
• 19:01
  point to different leaders throughout my
• 19:03
  my life who have been instrumental in
• 19:06
  either teaching me things um sometimes
• 19:09
  telling me no uh or look to a different
• 19:11
  direction. Um but but our leadership at
• 19:15
  at the San Antonio Water System right
• 19:16
  now is the such my my my senior vice
• 19:19
  president Kabina Ramos my exe my uh CEO
• 19:22
  Mr. Robert Point Poente, they they
• 19:24
  support this community work so much.
• 19:27
  They believe so much in this community
• 19:29
  work. They really genuinely believe that
• 19:31
  we have to engage with people in the in
• 19:33
  the community. And so they give me what
• 19:35
  I call our license to operate. Yeah.
• 19:37
  >> Um they are the ones that give me that
• 19:38
  license to operate. Right. And then we
• 19:40
  go out in the community to make those
• 19:42
  connections
• 19:43
  >> and then the community gives us our
• 19:45
  license to operate. Yeah.
• 19:46
  >> It's only the community who gives us
• 19:48
  that license. It's not us taking it. And
• 19:51
  I think every utility or or every water
• 19:53
  organization needs to understand that
• 19:55
  that it's your community that gives you
• 19:57
  your license. And if they are if they
• 19:59
  don't trust you, Yeah.
• 20:01
  >> Uh which is what I'm my job is about is
• 20:03
  about trust building. If they don't
• 20:05
  trust you, you won't get that license.
• 20:07
  So yes, they're showing up at city
• 20:09
  council or your or your meetings
• 20:11
  >> griping about things that you do. You
• 20:14
  haven't
• 20:15
  >> built that license with them yet.
• 20:17
  >> Yeah. Yeah. But I think Greg, you bring
• 20:18
  up such an important point that is a
• 20:21
  theme for I think communities that are
• 20:23
  investing in trust building, investing
• 20:25
  in um strategic communications and
• 20:27
  outreach. It's it starts at the top and
• 20:29
  leadership making that a seat at the
• 20:32
  table. And I I guess you know my
• 20:34
  question is why do you think um that's
• 20:37
  not the norm? You why do you think that
• 20:40
  that maybe there are communities that
• 20:42
  are averse to making that a seat at the
• 20:44
  table just like we'd have, you know,
• 20:45
  engineering, right? or or water quality
• 20:48
  like why do you have any thoughts on
• 20:50
  that?
• 20:51
  >> Yeah, I do. Um well there I have a lot
• 20:53
  of thoughts on all
• 20:55
  >> yeah I could go on and on.
• 20:57
  >> I think you bring up that you bring up a
• 20:59
  word that I think is important there and
• 21:01
  you said I think you said adverse and I
• 21:02
  think we are riskadverse for the most
• 21:04
  part as this industry. You know that's a
• 21:06
  political
• 21:07
  >> that's the politically correct way of
• 21:09
  saying I think we're a I I think we're a
• 21:11
  too safe of an industry.
• 21:14
  We're scared sometimes of our own
• 21:15
  shadow. And you know, I get it. Um we we
• 21:18
  are responsible for um a product and and
• 21:21
  and and taking care of our community
• 21:24
  >> such that if we don't do it correctly
• 21:26
  and safely, we could we could cause
• 21:28
  great harm in the community, we could we
• 21:30
  could literally kill somebody. So I
• 21:32
  understand where that's coming from.
• 21:34
  >> Yeah. But I think that we get we we
• 21:38
  allow that to then dictate uh and drive
• 21:42
  uh decisions that sometimes are based on
• 21:43
  fear.
• 21:44
  >> And I'm coming around to your question
• 21:47
  which is
• 21:48
  >> part of that fear is and I and I've
• 21:50
  heard this not really within my
• 21:52
  organization because like I said I our
• 21:53
  organization really uh embraces the idea
• 21:56
  of being in the community but I've but I
• 21:58
  have through the years heard this from
• 21:59
  other utilities and other leaders.
• 22:01
  They're afraid of the community. They're
• 22:03
  afraid of that the community is going to
• 22:04
  gripe at them and scream at them and
• 22:06
  yell at them and they're afraid of what
• 22:08
  the community is going to say about
• 22:09
  them. That's one of the reasons why I
• 22:10
  think so many utilities won't fully
• 22:12
  engage in social media.
• 22:14
  >> I've heard it. I've heard it. They're
• 22:15
  they're like, "Well, but what if they go
• 22:17
  on Facebook and start screaming about us
• 22:19
  and griping about us?"
• 22:20
  >> Yeah.
• 22:20
  >> And my answer to that is, well, they're
• 22:22
  already doing it. Like, they're already
• 22:24
  doing it. They're doing it whether you
• 22:26
  whether you like it or not, they're
• 22:27
  already doing it. And so, are you going
• 22:29
  to have a seat at the at the table in
• 22:30
  that conversation or not? are you going
• 22:32
  to be able to come into that
• 22:33
  conversation and say, "Yeah, I
• 22:35
  understand your frustrations, but here's
• 22:37
  here's our point. Like here's our
• 22:38
  perspective on things." Right? And so I
• 22:41
  think I think we have to um be be get
• 22:44
  rid of that and be willing to engage the
• 22:46
  community because the community wants it
• 22:48
  and by the way they are going to
• 22:50
  complain. um you aren't doing everything
• 22:53
  all the time correctly and they have um
• 22:56
  some buy in a to this and so it's my you
• 22:59
  know my dad told me when I first got
• 23:00
  into this industry serving the community
• 23:02
  he said son you're going to be damned if
• 23:04
  you do and damned if you don't
• 23:06
  >> and so you just have to embrace that and
• 23:08
  recognize fact this is this is the work
• 23:11
  that we've sort of signed up to do
• 23:13
  >> um and not be afraid of our shadow and
• 23:16
  especially not be afraid of the
• 23:18
  community.
• 23:18
  >> That's right.
• 23:19
  >> Um uh listen to them.
• 23:20
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And being able to lean
• 23:22
  in with curiosity and empathy. And I
• 23:25
  think that's what I see a lot of in in
• 23:29
  um at the catalyst experiences is a lot
• 23:32
  of that um encouragement to be curious
• 23:36
  and empathetic, have a point of view, be
• 23:40
  >> um share what's going on. But but um
• 23:42
  >> yeah.
• 23:43
  >> Yeah. And I think creating a uh
• 23:46
  workforce and quite frankly more of a
• 23:49
  workforce of professionals that know how
• 23:51
  to do that job and do that job well
• 23:53
  right because I think it is a but it's a
• 23:56
  different skill set just like you know
• 23:58
  engineering just like working in a lab
• 23:59
  like every everyone has their place and
• 24:01
  I think the more talent then can be
• 24:03
  trained to do this in our communities
• 24:05
  the better off we'll be as a collective
• 24:07
  you know industry and so I just you know
• 24:09
  Greg how we're going off script but I'm
• 24:12
  curious just in your career like how
• 24:14
  many how many um professionals do you
• 24:17
  think you've touched and kind of
• 24:18
  mentored and kind of sent out? I mean is
• 24:20
  it a multiple of three, five, 10 and and
• 24:23
  what's your aspirational goal for
• 24:24
  catalyst? How you know what kind of how
• 24:27
  big do you want that community to grow?
• 24:29
  >> Yeah, I you know I I don't know. I I
• 24:33
  believe I have this personal definition
• 24:35
  of leadership that is um um knowing your
• 24:40
  why to influence other people.
• 24:43
  And I I I really believe that leadership
• 24:46
  is is about influence. Now, when we get
• 24:49
  into influence, we talk about all kinds
• 24:50
  of different things, right? I think a
• 24:52
  conversation with somebody in a hallway
• 24:54
  can can be influential. I think, you
• 24:56
  know, you can post things and do things
• 24:57
  on social media. You can have a platform
• 24:59
  like a podcast. So, I think I think
• 25:01
  influence and leadership, you know, they
• 25:03
  they're tied together. Um,
• 25:07
  I I think what I've endeavored to do,
• 25:10
  and we can talk more about this later,
• 25:12
  about um why I believe it's important
• 25:14
  that seasoned leaders do this. In fact,
• 25:16
  I I think it's absolutely um essential
• 25:20
  that seasoned leaders pour into the next
• 25:22
  generation
• 25:23
  >> and not hoard things for themselves. Um,
• 25:27
  my responsibility, as I, as I often say,
• 25:29
  is when I when I finally retire from
• 25:32
  this current work that I'm doing in in
• 25:33
  water utility work, I want to make sure
• 25:35
  that I've poured myself completely out.
• 25:38
  >> Oh, wow.
• 25:39
  >> And so, I don't I it's a great question.
• 25:43
  Thank you for asking it. But I don't
• 25:44
  know that I I I think about it in terms
• 25:47
  of how many or you know I I just I go
• 25:50
  about just kind of doing what I'm doing
• 25:53
  with the understanding that my purpose
• 25:55
  my why is to lead is to influence is to
• 25:59
  serve. That is my purpose. And so I I
• 26:02
  just try to do that in kind of every way
• 26:04
  that I possibly can. And and sometimes
• 26:05
  that's a that's a breakfast or coffee
• 26:08
  with somebody. Um, sometimes it's it's
• 26:10
  speaking at a at a conference and and
• 26:12
  you know, sometimes it's a hallway
• 26:14
  conversation. So, um, yeah, that's
• 26:18
  that's kind of I guess my answer to
• 26:19
  that.
• 26:20
  >> Yeah, I love that.
• 26:21
  >> And I'm thinking about, you know, it
• 26:23
  kind of kind of brings to mind the the
• 26:26
  age gap or the gap in the next
• 26:28
  generation. So we hear all the time the
• 26:32
  silver tsunami that you know 50% what
• 26:36
  who know who knows what stat we're using
• 26:38
  and which and how long it's been around
• 26:40
  and if it's still accurate but 50% of
• 26:42
  the water utility workforce can retire
• 26:44
  within the next 5 years. Um what's it
• 26:47
  going to take to attract the next
• 26:48
  generation? Um, I would love your
• 26:51
  perspective on that just in terms of
• 26:53
  like, you know, the next generation
• 26:54
  thinks differently and I'm I'm finally
• 26:57
  getting to the age where I where I I'm
• 26:59
  noticing that difference.
• 27:00
  >> Yeah.
• 27:01
  >> Which is weird.
• 27:02
  >> Increasing the font size on my phone
• 27:05
  >> as I as I say that. But um
• 27:08
  >> yeah, I'm I would love your perspective
• 27:10
  on like how we both invite them in and
• 27:15
  learn from
• 27:16
  >> Yeah. the um the skill sets that that
• 27:20
  the next generation has.
• 27:21
  >> Absolutely.
• 27:22
  >> I have and this is probably not going to
• 27:25
  come as a complete shock. If you know
• 27:26
  me, you know that I tend to have a
• 27:28
  little bit different perspectives on on
• 27:30
  things, but I'm not worried about the
• 27:32
  silver tsunami. I haven't been. Um and
• 27:35
  the reason I haven't been worried about
• 27:36
  it is because I believe that the
• 27:37
  industry will change as it has to
• 27:40
  accordingly. I think that today, you
• 27:42
  know, we have a lot of people doing a
• 27:44
  lot of different jobs and that's the way
• 27:45
  things are and that's fantastic. But I
• 27:47
  do think that in the future you're going
• 27:49
  to see u you know jobs that um you know
• 27:53
  we we may need a person today to do it
• 27:56
  may not have to have a person doing that
• 27:57
  in the future. I think I think we've
• 27:59
  we've already seen that with you know um
• 28:01
  automated meters and some other
• 28:03
  processes that are coming about. And I'm
• 28:05
  not for getting rid of jobs. That's not
• 28:07
  what I'm saying. I'm just saying it
• 28:08
  doesn't it doesn't worry me as much
• 28:10
  because I believe the industry will
• 28:11
  adapt accordingly.
• 28:13
  >> And the good news is I think younger
• 28:15
  people uh the the younger generations
• 28:17
  that are coming up, they're already well
• 28:18
  suited for that. They're they're ready
• 28:20
  for that. Um they understand that. I
• 28:22
  don't think they're worried about it at
• 28:24
  all. I think it's it's a lot of us who
• 28:26
  are the seasoned gray-haireds that talk
• 28:29
  about this a lot more and and are a
• 28:31
  little more worried about it. Um, but it
• 28:33
  doesn't it doesn't worry me because I I
• 28:34
  I believe in the innovation and the
• 28:36
  curiosity and everything that's part of
• 28:38
  our industry. I have three kids, three
• 28:40
  grown kids of my own. My youngest is is
• 28:42
  22, my oldest is 29. I have a son in the
• 28:45
  middle, he's about to turn 26. And um,
• 28:48
  you know, I I watch them and see how
• 28:52
  um great they are with technology and
• 28:54
  processes and thinking through uh
• 28:57
  certain things in ways that I didn't for
• 28:59
  sure at that age.
• 29:01
  So, um I think that the younger folks
• 29:04
  are going to adapt. Now, I I will say
• 29:06
  this. I do think it's incumbent, again,
• 29:08
  I meant this while ago. I think it's
• 29:10
  incumbent upon the upand cominging and
• 29:13
  and I don't know that they're up and
• 29:14
  coming. I think a lot of them are
• 29:15
  already here. I think we don't give them
• 29:17
  enough credit. Uh like someday they're,
• 29:19
  you know, someday they're going to
• 29:20
  become leaders. And I'm like, yeah, when
• 29:22
  when is someday? Like, how do we define
• 29:24
  that? I think a lot of them are leaders
• 29:26
  right now.
• 29:26
  >> Exactly. And again, I think it's it's I
• 29:28
  think it's incumbent upon us that have
• 29:30
  been in the industry for a long time to
• 29:32
  come alongside them to impart any wisdom
• 29:35
  that we do have and uh pour that into
• 29:38
  them and and and and release that to
• 29:40
  them. Um now whether they take that or
• 29:42
  not or whether it's going to be still
• 29:44
  relevant or not, I I don't know. But but
• 29:46
  I do think that we have in incredible
• 29:49
  experiences and things u that we should
• 29:51
  share. And that's why I like to share it
• 29:53
  mostly in stories, right? I can sit with
• 29:56
  somebody who's younger than me and just
• 29:58
  try to give them some knowledge.
• 30:00
  >> Yeah.
• 30:00
  >> But I think it's better to I think it's
• 30:02
  better to say something, you know, like
• 30:04
  like there was this time when I was in a
• 30:06
  community meeting and this was
• 30:07
  happening, right? Give them a real life
• 30:09
  example so that they understand that
• 30:11
  like this is the way it really works.
• 30:13
  This is the way it really looks.
• 30:15
  >> Yeah. I I actually I love that take on
• 30:19
  the silver tsunami because I think it is
• 30:21
  so spoton to in terms of maybe some of
• 30:25
  the jobs aren't going to transfer
• 30:27
  because there are better tools to do
• 30:28
  those jobs, right? And and I think this
• 30:31
  next generation is just going to be more
• 30:32
  native to those tools and just expect to
• 30:35
  pull them off the shelf and use them and
• 30:37
  apply them in ways maybe we wouldn't
• 30:39
  think, you know, to use them. So I guess
• 30:41
  you know question for you Greg speaking
• 30:43
  of new tools. Um how do you see AI
• 30:48
  changing your field and your industry
• 30:50
  and how you think about um you know
• 30:53
  operating and and kind of doing your
• 30:55
  role at the utility?
• 30:56
  >> Yeah, I I I've started embracing it. Um
• 31:01
  you know I I've I wasn't opposed to it
• 31:04
  ever. I just wasn't really all that
• 31:07
  aware of it. And I've started, you know,
• 31:10
  um
• 31:11
  >> I I've started looking at it and using
• 31:13
  the tool a lot more. I think it's a tool
• 31:15
  like anything else.
• 31:16
  >> Yeah.
• 31:16
  >> Um for the work that I do, which is
• 31:18
  which is mainly creative work. Um you
• 31:21
  know, I'm I'm the external affairs
• 31:23
  manager, so my responsibility is is to
• 31:25
  do, you know, some writing and and some
• 31:27
  creative work. And I also have an
• 31:28
  education team, so we're in the process
• 31:30
  of, you know, putting together different
• 31:32
  education programs and experiences and
• 31:33
  things of that nature. And I think we've
• 31:36
  embraced it. Um, I I like the tools that
• 31:40
  I'm using to help me
• 31:44
  conceptualize ideas that I've had in my
• 31:47
  head for a long time.
• 31:49
  >> Uh, I still believe that you have to
• 31:51
  have that grain of of innovation and
• 31:54
  that grain of creativity that starts
• 31:56
  that process. People are so worried
• 31:57
  about like, well, we're just going to,
• 31:59
  you know, we're just going to give it
• 32:00
  all over to AI and and, you know, and
• 32:02
  they're it's going to become the
• 32:03
  creative tool and we're not going to
• 32:05
  have to think anymore. And I'm like,
• 32:06
  well, I'm not finding that to be true at
• 32:07
  all. I still have to have a an idea.
• 32:10
  >> I still have to have an innovative
• 32:11
  thought and then I use the tool to begin
• 32:14
  a process.
• 32:16
  And whereas,
• 32:18
  you know, let me just say it this way,
• 32:20
  like whereas I might sit for a long long
• 32:23
  long time thinking about how I need to
• 32:26
  go about writing something up. Right.
• 32:28
  >> Yeah.
• 32:29
  >> Now, I can use it to generate something
• 32:34
  for me. Yeah,
• 32:35
  >> that I don't necessarily use all of the
• 32:37
  wording,
• 32:38
  >> right?
• 32:39
  >> But it's given me a really good
• 32:40
  framework of, wow, okay, I like the way
• 32:42
  that that is formatted and and the
• 32:44
  thoughts are are there.
• 32:46
  >> And again, because it's kind of a
• 32:48
  learning the you know, learning tools,
• 32:49
  it's it's kind of learning how I think
• 32:51
  and talk and
• 32:52
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 32:53
  >> Anyway, and so it's it's spitting back
• 32:55
  out to me. It sounds like me, right?
• 32:57
  It's not giving me something that's not
• 32:59
  necessarily not me. So, I'm not afraid
• 33:01
  of it. Um, I'm I'm I've embraced it. I'm
• 33:04
  utilizing it. It's not my end all be
• 33:07
  all. I'm still a real big believer in um
• 33:10
  um you know, I like pencil and paper. Um
• 33:13
  I'm a I'm a an illustrator, a drawer. Um
• 33:16
  and I still believe in that. But I but I
• 33:18
  but I have actually taken some of my
• 33:20
  illustrations and then put it into an AI
• 33:23
  tool and allowed it to generate my um
• 33:26
  you know, my design back to me in a more
• 33:29
  finished way.
• 33:30
  >> Yeah.
• 33:30
  >> Um
• 33:31
  >> yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. It's
• 33:34
  like once you get past the pride of
• 33:36
  ownership thing because I think as a
• 33:38
  creative there is a um I'm a creative
• 33:40
  myself. It's there is a pride of
• 33:42
  ownership. I've taken this blank sheet
• 33:44
  of paper and I've created something and
• 33:46
  so that taking that leap to say I'm
• 33:48
  going to let something prompt me to make
• 33:49
  what I could create better. Once you
• 33:51
  kind of get over that ego hump then I'm
• 33:53
  like bring on the tool you know it's
• 33:55
  kind of like okay it's just it's become
• 33:57
  my new spell check or my new thesaurus.
• 33:59
  It's just right. It's the tool that's
• 34:01
  just enabling me to in in my opinion now
• 34:03
  I think I produce more work that's of
• 34:06
  the same caliber that it would take me
• 34:09
  >> you know
• 34:10
  >> twice as long to do. And I would like to
• 34:12
  think at least in its current state that
• 34:15
  it has not yet um mitigated the need for
• 34:20
  for discernment or or mitigated the need
• 34:23
  for being like, "Oh, I know that
• 34:25
  sometimes a really good idea has to come
• 34:29
  from
• 34:30
  >> you. You have to allow yourself to be
• 34:32
  surprised by what enters your head." And
• 34:34
  then um um and then again, it kind of
• 34:38
  comes down to design experience. It's
• 34:39
  like let's build things to standards and
• 34:41
  then let's let's create some space for
• 34:44
  some unexpected magic um to happen.
• 34:48
  >> The one thing it doesn't do is it
• 34:49
  doesn't bring in humanity, does it? I
• 34:51
  mean, it can give you right. It can give
• 34:54
  you the the tools and the design and the
• 34:56
  framework and all of that that you need,
• 34:57
  but it's it's never going to be able to
• 35:00
  bring in that human element which you
• 35:02
  still need, which is still the surprise
• 35:04
  that you're talking about uh that that
• 35:06
  comes about and that's going to be
• 35:07
  reliant upon us. but and the creatives
• 35:09
  to be able to see that and and still
• 35:11
  implement that, have that available
• 35:14
  still by using. But I love the idea that
• 35:16
  you said a spell check. It's it's like
• 35:17
  my like that is a great way to think
• 35:20
  about it and I think to to help maybe
• 35:22
  even disarm people a little bit uh who
• 35:24
  get nervous about it where I'm like,
• 35:26
  "Yeah, but you use spellch check, don't
• 35:27
  you?" Well, yeah. Well, yeah.
• 35:29
  >> And and actually, I couldn't imagine
• 35:30
  doing my life without it anymore. You
• 35:32
  know, again, at first I'm like, "No,
• 35:33
  probably I'm going to I'm going to edit
• 35:34
  my own papers or edit other people's
• 35:35
  papers." Like, why the heck am I doing
• 35:37
  this? enable enable all the tools.
• 35:39
  >> Yeah. Yeah. There Yeah. There's so much
• 35:41
  AI that happens behind the scenes that
• 35:44
  has been going on for decades. Um it's
• 35:47
  just a new interface that we're getting
• 35:50
  um to work with in a lot of um in a lot
• 35:53
  of context. And I also think, you know,
• 35:55
  kind of tying it back that there's
• 35:57
  >> it's still um the other thing that
• 36:01
  doesn't get replaced is the need for
• 36:04
  human connection. And so I think there
• 36:05
  was this whole like moment in time,
• 36:08
  especially during co was like, whoa, is
• 36:10
  everything going to go so virtual and we
• 36:12
  can be so much more efficient? But it's
• 36:14
  like there's there is still um like
• 36:18
  catalyst experiences or or going to
• 36:20
  conferences. We still crave this the
• 36:24
  stuff that happens
• 36:26
  >> in person um that catalyzes and um
• 36:30
  >> and I can't think of a more experiential
• 36:33
  place to be than a water utility, right?
• 36:35
  where we where we started off this
• 36:36
  conversation. You have to know your
• 36:37
  environment. You have to know the
• 36:39
  creeks. You have to know where the
• 36:40
  creeks feed into. You need to know where
• 36:42
  your water comes from. And I just think
• 36:43
  that that's such a cool product to
• 36:46
  market and layer on with all of the
• 36:48
  tools we have access to today because it
• 36:50
  Yeah. You can really um talk about an
• 36:52
  experiential uh marketing campaign, you
• 36:55
  know what I mean? Or brand or industry
• 36:57
  to be a part of.
• 36:58
  >> Yeah. Well, we have a beautiful story to
• 37:00
  tell and and it and it's a it's a real
• 37:03
  story to tell because we we as humans
• 37:05
  are are dealing with this, you know,
• 37:07
  water every single day in our lives and
• 37:09
  and so it is kind of you mentioned um
• 37:12
  Isaac, you mentioned kind of the the
• 37:13
  behind the scenes, what's been going on
• 37:14
  with AI behind the scenes. And I liken I
• 37:17
  liken it to, you know, the story that
• 37:18
  we're telling is to allow the community
• 37:20
  to see the behindthe-scenes work, right?
• 37:22
  That's really what we're doing. I don't
• 37:24
  need to tell you the story about water.
• 37:25
  You already know that story. you you
• 37:27
  have it every day of your life. What you
• 37:29
  don't know is the behind the scenes
• 37:31
  story. What you don't know is the story
• 37:33
  of all of the people who are dedicated
• 37:35
  to the work that we do, the dirty work
• 37:37
  that we do behind the scenes in order to
• 37:39
  make sure that that water um arrives to
• 37:41
  you safe and clean and your waste water
• 37:42
  gets treated every day. And that's the
• 37:44
  part that gets me excited about how do
• 37:46
  we create experiences for that
• 37:48
  behindthescenes story where people say,
• 37:50
  "Ah, okay, I get it now." And and I had
• 37:53
  no idea. Um, I think y'all know we have
• 37:56
  a we actually have an experience that we
• 37:57
  created here at Saws called the the rain
• 37:59
  to drain experience and we've been doing
• 38:02
  it for a number of years and um and we
• 38:04
  take people on an all day trip. Um, and
• 38:07
  when when I say experience, I I always
• 38:09
  tell them like it is an experience.
• 38:11
  You're going to get to smell the
• 38:12
  wastewater plant when we get there. In
• 38:14
  fact, you're going to smell it miles
• 38:15
  before we get there. Um, and you know,
• 38:18
  we used to we used to open up a tap on a
• 38:20
  on a a one of our ground tanks and
• 38:23
  actually have them drink the water
• 38:25
  straight out of the ground tank.
• 38:26
  >> So, we wanted them to fully experience
• 38:28
  what this story is that's working behind
• 38:30
  the scenes.
• 38:31
  >> That's awesome cuz it's one of the one
• 38:33
  of the coolest ironies I feel like of
• 38:36
  the water industry is that when you're
• 38:38
  talking about any other technology um
• 38:41
  like phones or anything else, the
• 38:44
  designers are always like, "How do we
• 38:45
  make this?" So it feels invisible and
• 38:48
  water is naturally invisible. So in the
• 38:49
  water industry, we're always trying to
• 38:50
  do the opposite. So be like, how do we
• 38:52
  actually
• 38:53
  >> make the experience noticeable? It's
• 38:56
  actually the opposite problem. And so we
• 38:58
  need we need to have do that through
• 39:00
  experiences and stories and reminding
• 39:02
  people like this technology is so great
• 39:05
  >> that we it's so important that we make
• 39:07
  sure you know how it how it works.
• 39:10
  >> We don't want it to disappear and just
• 39:12
  fade into the uh the fabric of your
• 39:14
  life. I love that.
• 39:16
  >> Um, yeah. Well, I I would love to just,
• 39:19
  you know, just ask this this last
• 39:21
  question, too. Just, you know, what do
• 39:22
  you um what do you see for um for the
• 39:26
  future of of water and water
• 39:28
  professionals? We've kind of been
• 39:29
  touching on it, but just kind of a last
• 39:31
  word on um on what are you hoping hoping
• 39:34
  to see in in the coming future?
• 39:37
  Yeah, I think as as I mentioned earlier
• 39:39
  that you know my personal definition of
• 39:41
  leadership is really understanding your
• 39:43
  why or or using your why to influence
• 39:45
  other people. I think that the essence
• 39:47
  of leadership within water is is not
• 39:50
  going to change. I don't think it has
• 39:51
  changed. I think that that that the
• 39:54
  essence of leadership is is is been
• 39:56
  there. I think it will always be there.
• 39:57
  I think the way we go about doing it um
• 40:00
  is is going to look a little bit
• 40:01
  different. Um I you know one of one of
• 40:05
  the things that um and if it's okay I
• 40:09
  just want to say this real real fast. I
• 40:10
  think I' I've mentioned the word
• 40:12
  humanity before and I think one of the
• 40:13
  things that I I really genuinely hope
• 40:15
  that we see more of within this this
• 40:18
  waters space and in leadership is is
• 40:20
  more of the human element. And and what
• 40:22
  what do I mean by that? Well, um I I was
• 40:25
  speaking on a panel just uh about a year
• 40:28
  or two ago and uh we were going through
• 40:31
  a pretty difficult time. We had changed
• 40:33
  some stuff on our rates and we had a lot
• 40:35
  of u you know customers that were having
• 40:37
  some issues with it and I'm the external
• 40:38
  affairs manager so I get all of those
• 40:40
  phone calls. I get all those emails. Um
• 40:43
  and uh I was on this panel at this at
• 40:45
  this uh you know conference and they
• 40:47
  were asking me about that and I was
• 40:49
  saying that I was I was saying that you
• 40:51
  know it's a real difficult time right
• 40:53
  now that um you know we've got a lot of
• 40:54
  these phone calls coming in and and it
• 40:56
  wasn't people complaining what people
• 40:58
  were it was I was seeing some of the
• 41:00
  worst of humanity which I'm still seeing
• 41:02
  some of that a little bit in terms of
• 41:04
  I'd never seen before people um calling
• 41:07
  me names uh calling my team member names
• 41:10
  because of their ethnicity. Let me just
• 41:13
  say that. And I was relaying that on
• 41:15
  that panel how difficult it was. And I
• 41:18
  had a a a real seasoned leader who was
• 41:20
  sitting next to me. And when it came his
• 41:22
  turn, he kind of looked at me and he
• 41:23
  said, "The first thing I want to say to
• 41:24
  you, Greg, is um you need to toughen up
• 41:27
  a little bit." And I bring that up
• 41:29
  because I think that that is the essence
• 41:31
  of kind of in some respects of where we
• 41:34
  are as as a as an industry.
• 41:36
  >> We don't value the humanity of the work
• 41:40
  that we do. We we almost in some
• 41:42
  respects treat each other like we're
• 41:44
  robots. We move on from one project to
• 41:46
  the next. We very rarely celebrate what
• 41:49
  we've just done. We're just moving on to
• 41:50
  the next thing. And what I really want
• 41:54
  to see as I am uh transitioning for the
• 41:56
  next couple of years, I I'm actually
• 41:58
  moving toward retirement in in 2028 uh
• 42:01
  at SAW. I'll still be working and doing
• 42:03
  some things, but but at Saw um you know,
• 42:06
  I'm really really wanting to beat the
• 42:08
  drum a little more about the humanity of
• 42:10
  the work we do, the people that we work
• 42:11
  alongside
• 42:13
  >> and the people that we serve. And it's
• 42:15
  it's it's complex. It's there's there's
• 42:18
  feelings and emotions and there's
• 42:20
  >> issues going on in people's lives and we
• 42:22
  need to do a better job of recognizing
• 42:24
  that and embracing that. Now, work is
• 42:26
  work. We got to be professional. Of
• 42:27
  course, we have to. But we can't just
• 42:30
  keep treating each other sometimes like
• 42:32
  we're robots like atom automatons and
• 42:34
  just you know just like take all of the
• 42:37
  the humanity and the emotion all out of
• 42:39
  the work that we do. I think that's
• 42:41
  actually detrimental to the work that we
• 42:43
  do. I think the fact that we are able to
• 42:45
  serve our communities comes from a place
• 42:47
  of the fact that we love our
• 42:49
  communities. We we are part of the
• 42:51
  communities. I get to serve in my role
• 42:53
  every day. I get to serve almost 30,000
• 42:55
  lowincome families every single day. and
• 42:57
  that that those stories that I hear from
• 43:01
  them and what they're actually
• 43:02
  experiencing drives me to do the work uh
• 43:05
  that I do. And so I'm I'm really
• 43:07
  passionate about making sure that we
• 43:09
  bring in the future um working toward
• 43:12
  future leaders, working toward more of a
• 43:15
  human approach to the work that we do.
• 43:17
  Again, I have great um belief in the
• 43:21
  younger generations because
• 43:23
  >> it's kind of who they are. like they
• 43:27
  they talk openly and honestly about
• 43:28
  things a lot more than my generation
• 43:30
  does. And I appreciate that. I think
• 43:33
  that's what it's going to take in order
• 43:34
  to continue to make real connections to
• 43:36
  our communities. And so, um, I I I just
• 43:40
  wanted to bring that up as what I see as
• 43:42
  the future because I see it as as
• 43:44
  something that is super important. I am
• 43:47
  desperately wanting to see more females
• 43:50
  in leadership roles uh within this
• 43:52
  industry. I desperately want to see
• 43:55
  people of color in leadership roles in
• 43:57
  this industry. I want to see our
• 44:00
  industry and our leadership um begin to
• 44:02
  look more like our communities uh sound
• 44:05
  like our communities and feel like our
• 44:07
  communities. Uh and that's my hope that
• 44:10
  I have and I believe uh I believe it's
• 44:12
  going to, you know, I'm I'm a glass half
• 44:13
  full guy anyway, but I believe this that
• 44:16
  the direction that we're headed.
• 44:18
  >> Yeah.
• 44:19
  >> That gave me chills.
• 44:20
  >> That gave me chills. And I think um heck
• 44:23
  yes, Greg, let us know how we can be
• 44:25
  part of that because um of all of the
• 44:28
  things that we can't control going on
• 44:30
  right now, I think, you know, I think we
• 44:31
  can all find some unity around water of
• 44:35
  all things, right? So, how can we make
• 44:36
  this one less divisive thing in uh in a
• 44:40
  world that is just a little chaotic
• 44:42
  right now and and so on and so forth.
• 44:43
  So,
• 44:44
  >> agreed. I think water is I love that
• 44:47
  because I I do genuinely believe that
• 44:49
  water can be the great unifier.
• 44:50
  >> I do, too. I I Yes, I agree.
• 44:52
  >> Yeah.
• 44:53
  >> I don't think there's anything
• 44:54
  controversial about it. Right. Right.
• 44:56
  >> And so I think it can be the great
• 44:58
  unifier if if we just will allow it to
• 45:00
  be.
• 45:01
  >> Yeah.
• 45:02
  >> Yeah. If we allow ourselves to say, why
• 45:04
  do we value this?
• 45:06
  >> Yeah.
• 45:06
  >> How do we want to organize ourselves
• 45:08
  around it?
• 45:09
  >> And who do we need around the table to
• 45:10
  give a representation of every every
• 45:13
  crevice that water serves? I think that
• 45:15
  that's very very important to us too,
• 45:17
  Greg. It's it needs to be representative
• 45:18
  of the communities we serve. for sure.
• 45:21
  >> Amazing.
• 45:22
  >> Yeah.
• 45:22
  >> What a wonder great way to end.
• 45:24
  >> Greg, thank you. Thank you so much for
• 45:27
  um for this conversation, for the work
• 45:30
  that you are continuing to do and and
• 45:32
  have done to have an impact um in this
• 45:35
  uh in this industry and and in um in our
• 45:38
  communities. And thank you all so much
• 45:41
  too for tuning in um and supporting this
• 45:45
  podcast. This has been a great
• 45:47
  conversation. We would love if you would
• 45:49
  like, share, comment, send us a note.
• 45:52
  Who else do you want to hear from? We we
• 45:54
  are getting so many great suggestions
• 45:57
  and um and so many uh folks that I just
• 46:00
  can't wait to um to keep having more of
• 46:03
  these conversations. And so, thank you
• 46:05
  all so much for doing that and for um
• 46:07
  making a lot of work. Thanks for
• 46:09
  listening to the Make Water Work
• 46:11
  podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode,
• 46:14
  please take a moment to like, share, and
• 46:16
  subscribe so you never miss a
• 46:18
  conversation. We'd love to hear your
• 46:20
  thoughts and questions. Connect with us
• 46:22
  on LinkedIn or send us a message.
• 46:25
  Together, we can make water work for
• 46:27
  everyone.