Latest / This Week On ICE / Lorenzo Salgado Araujo is the latest person killed by ICE. Here's what we know.

Transcript

Lorenzo Salgado Araujo is the latest person killed by ICE. Here's what we know. · This Week On ICE

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[music]
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SPEAKER_00: at 6.55 unbeknownst to all of us my dad had been shot inside his van near
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SPEAKER_00: the intersection of wayside canal by ice agents
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SPEAKER_00: in unmarked cars around 7am i was notified by my mom that something bad had happened
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SPEAKER_00: to my dad we didn't know what all we knew is that it was ice related
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SPEAKER_00: at 7.05 five minutes after i left the house drove all the way up to his work site
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SPEAKER_00: an hour away to find any evidence of his van
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SPEAKER_00: by 8 am after not finding any evidence i saw a facebook post on
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SPEAKER_00: the southeast houston uh facebook page about ice activity on the intersection
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SPEAKER_00: of wayside canal by 8 35 am i arrived in the east end
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SPEAKER_00: to find canal street blocked off i saw my dad's van but no sign
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SPEAKER_00: of him i frantically called family friends loved ones to see
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SPEAKER_00: if they can find any information i saw a video posted on facebook
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SPEAKER_00: that he had been shot
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SPEAKER_00: i recognize him immediately not from his appearance but from his voice crying
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SPEAKER_00: for help as he lay on the street bleeding out
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SPEAKER_02: hello and welcome to this week on ice
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SPEAKER_02: for july 10th 2026 i'm kelly kimball and i'm matt kendrick
1:29
SPEAKER_02: the voice you just heard was ronaldo salgado on tuesday armed ice agent shot
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SPEAKER_02: and killed his father lorenzo salgado arraujo during a traffic stop in houston texas
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SPEAKER_02: as he was driving a work crew to a home building site the killing has fomented
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SPEAKER_02: an international incident with mexican president claudia scheinbaum vowing
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SPEAKER_02: to pursue legal measures beyond mere diplomatic complaints
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SPEAKER_02: locally the league of united latin american citizens is offering
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SPEAKER_02: a five thousand dollar reward for information and videos from witnesses to
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SPEAKER_02: the shooting and demanding an independent investigation along
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SPEAKER_02: with other civil rights groups salgado arajo is at least the eighth person killed
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SPEAKER_02: by federal agents during enforcement actions
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SPEAKER_02: since president trump took office last year matt is going to explain the incident
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SPEAKER_02: and its fallout
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SPEAKER_03: then leaked data from ice records shows that the agency arrested
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SPEAKER_03: at least 10 000 people between june 26th and 30th a rate
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SPEAKER_03: of roughly 2 000 people per day in cities across
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SPEAKER_03: the united states that's nearly double the previously highest
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SPEAKER_03: known rate of ice arrests in december of 2025.
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SPEAKER_03: dhs secretary mark wayne mullen claims he's taking a quieter approach
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SPEAKER_03: than his predecessor christy noem who was hounded out of office
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SPEAKER_03: after disastrous ice surges in la chicago and minneapolis but
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SPEAKER_03: the data speaks loudly kelly will bring us up to speed on the new dhs playbook after
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SPEAKER_02: the break we'll speak with reagan williams who is a researcher in
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SPEAKER_02: the crisis conflict and arms division of human rights watch
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SPEAKER_02: her team has published a 180 page report that investigates the rash
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SPEAKER_02: of human rights abuses at the hands of ice officers deployed to Minneapolis and St.
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SPEAKER_02: Paul during Operation Metro surge between December 2025 and March of this year.
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SPEAKER_02: She's going to tell us about the most damning findings
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SPEAKER_02: and how ordinary citizens are demanding oversight.
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SPEAKER_03: Stick with us.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: matt we heard absolutely heartbreaking audio at the top of the show
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SPEAKER_02: from ronaldo salgado after his father was shot
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SPEAKER_02: by ice agents this week what do we know about lorenzo
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SPEAKER_03: and his tragic death lorenzo salgado araujo was a mexican national who'd been living
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SPEAKER_03: in houston texas for over 35 years his children were u.s citizens his grandchild was
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SPEAKER_03: a u.s citizen and he had worked his entire adult life building houses in
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SPEAKER_03: the texas area
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SPEAKER_03: and according to his son's account the day started much as always he woke up
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SPEAKER_03: before dawn had a big breakfast prepared for him by his wife went out
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SPEAKER_03: the door picked up his crew and as they were driving to
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SPEAKER_03: the job site sometime around 6 50 a
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SPEAKER_03: the morning unmarked ice vehicles surrounded his work truck and in an altercation
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SPEAKER_03: that is highly controversial he was shot by these agents there is video
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SPEAKER_03: that has circulated on facebook that i do not recommend viewers go and consume
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SPEAKER_03: because it's very disturbing of him pleading for help
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SPEAKER_03: and unfortunately this video is how his eldest son ronaldo discovered
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SPEAKER_03: that his father had been shot he later died in a nearby hospital incidentally
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SPEAKER_03: the same hospital where ronaldo was born and this is another unbelievable tragedy
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SPEAKER_03: the eighth person killed by ice since 2025 our friends over at la taco have
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SPEAKER_03: a slightly different count they actually count 10 people who have been killed by ice
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SPEAKER_03: during enforcement actions that's in addition to the
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SPEAKER_03: the 50 or so people who have died in ice detention so after
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SPEAKER_03: the action has been carried out regardless this killing is
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SPEAKER_03: an absolute tragedy it's left a family completely devastated by the events and in
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SPEAKER_03: the interest of fairness i'll give ice's side of the story they say
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SPEAKER_03: that mr salgado rojo was attempting to ram one
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SPEAKER_03: of their vehicles they presented no evidence for this there's no vehicle
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SPEAKER_03: with any marks of damage that they've presented there's no video
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SPEAKER_03: or audio presented
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SPEAKER_03: section and was a hardworking person his entire life is now dead this is a guy
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SPEAKER_03: who put his sons and a grandchild through college by building houses and it's
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SPEAKER_03: an absolute tragedy my heart just breaks for the entire community in texas
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SPEAKER_03: and particularly the sagado family
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SPEAKER_02: this idea of ice's claims that lorenzo was weaponizing his vehicle
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SPEAKER_02: against ice officers is curious because i believe we saw that same defense after
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SPEAKER_02: the killing of renee nicole good in minnesota i find it very curious how common
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SPEAKER_02: that argument is turning back to lorenzo he was a mexican national
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SPEAKER_02: and mexican president claudia scheinbaum herself is calling for
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SPEAKER_02: a forceful legal response from her government can you break this down
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SPEAKER_03: for us i just first want to respond to what you said about renee good and this idea
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SPEAKER_03: that civilians who are killed
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SPEAKER_03: by ice are somehow weaponizing their vehicle there's no evidence for
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SPEAKER_03: that i do not know of a single incident in which a civilian has attempted to run
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SPEAKER_03: over an ice agent or ram an ice agent's car with their vehicle
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SPEAKER_03: but turning now to to mexican president claudia scheinbaum and her response to this
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SPEAKER_03: during her morning news conference she was asked
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SPEAKER_03: about this she has frequently complained about the abuse of mexican nationals in
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SPEAKER_03: the united states she said that the worst crime
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SPEAKER_03: that mr salgado araujo committed was not having papers
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SPEAKER_03: and she has vowed quote legal measures in response
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SPEAKER_03: to this now what those legal measures might be is a little less clear obviously
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SPEAKER_03: in international disputes it's sometimes difficult to find standing in
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SPEAKER_03: a court international law is notoriously difficult to enforce so
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SPEAKER_03: what her options might be is not exactly clear but i think a wrongful death lawsuit
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SPEAKER_03: of some variety presented by mexico in the state of texas or to
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SPEAKER_03: the federal government might be on the cards and it it's particularly striking
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SPEAKER_03: because trump has of course attempted to bully mexico from the beginning
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SPEAKER_03: of his term saying that oh maybe we need to start bombing cartels maybe we need
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SPEAKER_03: a military intervention in northern mexico and scheinbaum like a lot
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SPEAKER_03: of other leaders who have had to deal very closely with trump
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SPEAKER_03: has come upon this pattern where if she stands up
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SPEAKER_03: to him she represents her interest strongly he tends
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SPEAKER_03: to back down he doesn't like getting embarrassed he doesn't like seeing resistance
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SPEAKER_03: and so he tends to kind of let the issue go away it underscores
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SPEAKER_03: a long-standing sense among
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SPEAKER_03: Mexican government officials that they are bullied by their neighbor
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SPEAKER_03: the United States that Mexican nationals are not treated with respect in
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SPEAKER_03: the United States and here we have this guy who once again was just trying
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SPEAKER_03: to do his job was in the process of becoming a US citizen had never committed
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SPEAKER_03: a crime in decades of living in the United States and he's killed on his way to work
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SPEAKER_02: yes and it's true this isn't the only time that president scheinbaum has asked
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SPEAKER_02: for legal measures or further scrutiny when it comes to ice in april we talked
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SPEAKER_02: about how the government of mexico joined a lawsuit
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SPEAKER_02: against adelanto ice detention facility and i think your point
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SPEAKER_02: about international law being very prickly being very complicated i haven't seen any
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SPEAKER_02: updates in the context of mexico joining this lawsuit i've been following it
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SPEAKER_02: since april
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SPEAKER_02: thisweekonice
9:10
SPEAKER_02: let's turn back to lorenzo he was at least the eighth person to die
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SPEAKER_02: during ice enforcement operations so matt what do we know about the other deaths
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SPEAKER_02: and any accountability for these victims
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SPEAKER_03: as you alluded to in your statement about the lawsuit against aderanto
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SPEAKER_03: the legal system moves very slowly and so ice has been reticent to disclose officers
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SPEAKER_03: who are responsible for these deaths we do know the name of the man
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SPEAKER_03: who shot renee good jonathan ross but in many of these other cases we have no idea
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SPEAKER_03: who shot them or who killed them
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SPEAKER_03: and it's not clear that the death will result in accountability now most
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SPEAKER_03: of these deaths that have happened are under investigation but
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SPEAKER_03: that investigation is usually carried out by ice so i think it's reasonable to say
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SPEAKER_03: that
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SPEAKER_03: we can't expect it to be particularly objective which is why i really want
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SPEAKER_03: to highlight the work
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SPEAKER_03: being done here by the league of united latin american citizens they're offering a five
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SPEAKER_03: thousand dollar reward for information and videos
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SPEAKER_03: from witnesses they are calling alongside other
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SPEAKER_03: group as we mentioned for an independent investigation now according
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SPEAKER_03: to texas public media the city
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SPEAKER_03: of houston has ruled out carrying carrying out their own investigation while
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SPEAKER_03: a federal investigation is underway so it's once again we're just going to have
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SPEAKER_03: to wait and see i think we will
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SPEAKER_03: be talking about this shooting and about the shootings of
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SPEAKER_03: at least seven other people who we mentioned as
10:35
SPEAKER_03: the election gets closer, and probably in
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SPEAKER_03: the 2028 election. So many people have died
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SPEAKER_03: that I don't see how it could become
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SPEAKER_03: ignored in the coming political discourse
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SPEAKER_03: well kelly this tragic death is part of a larger story unfolding right now
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SPEAKER_03: as ice is pursuing yet another crackdown we had leaked data
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SPEAKER_03: from ice showing 10 000 arrests in just the last five days of june that's by far
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SPEAKER_03: the highest rate of arrests on record what do we know about this surge right so
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SPEAKER_02: the 10 000 arrests in five days really speaks to the shift in calculus
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SPEAKER_02: between former dhs secretary christine noem and
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SPEAKER_02: the current dhs secretary mark wayne mullin
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SPEAKER_02: during his confirmation hearing mark wayne mullen said himself quote my goal
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SPEAKER_02: in six months is that we're not in the lead story every single day and when we think
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SPEAKER_02: about these 10 000 arrests
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SPEAKER_02: what top ice officials are receiving directly from the white house is in order
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SPEAKER_02: to increase immigration enforcement across the country
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SPEAKER_02: so these arrests are not going to happen in massive city-wide surges that we saw
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SPEAKER_02: in minneapolis in los angeles in chicago rather these arrests are going
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SPEAKER_02: to happen everywhere all at once and instead of 1 000 arrests a day
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SPEAKER_02: the new directive is 2 000 arrests per day that data point of 10 000 arrests
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SPEAKER_02: in five days was initially presented by the new york times it was leaked to them
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SPEAKER_02: and right now we know 10,000 people were arrested but we don't know who
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SPEAKER_02: and we don't know where and I think that is exactly by design
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SPEAKER_02: under this new DHS calculus this is also why we've seen reports of DHS reselling at
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SPEAKER_02: a loss by the way all of this land that they purchased under Christine Noem's tenure
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SPEAKER_02: because they no longer want to detain people as much as
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SPEAKER_02: under Christine Noem's tenure and this is all alleged obviously this can all change
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SPEAKER_02: on a dime
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SPEAKER_02: what these 10,000 arrests are going to be geared toward is these are all people
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SPEAKER_02: that we really want to make the case to deport out of this country so basically
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SPEAKER_02: the new tactic right now what we're seeing at this time is very simple
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SPEAKER_02: and very subtle increase arrests everywhere all at once and swiftly deport instead
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SPEAKER_02: of loudly detain
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SPEAKER_03: that's a really crucial story so they're attempting to avoid headlines as was
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SPEAKER_03: the stated intention of Mark Wayne Mullen by simply getting people out of
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SPEAKER_03: the country rather than having a long process or a lot of deadly confrontations
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SPEAKER_03: with ice and yet obviously the death of
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SPEAKER_03: 10 000 arrests in five days this league data that's a leading story you found
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SPEAKER_03: that there are a lot of quiet shifts happening in ice that kind of lends itself
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SPEAKER_03: to mark wayne mullen's new methods what do you make of it mm-hmm
13:18
SPEAKER_02: i could see this happening in at least one big way that no one is talking about just
13:23
SPEAKER_02: yet so let's take this back to january 2026 cbp quietly updated its policy
13:28
SPEAKER_02: on electronic device searches at us ports of entry a us port of entry is basically
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SPEAKER_02: an airport or an actual border right so
13:37
SPEAKER_02: cbp has always had a right to conduct a quote unquote basic search of our phones
13:41
SPEAKER_02: and our laptops at an airport they could basically scroll on your phone or look
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SPEAKER_02: at your computer but they can't plug in any type of technological device to look
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SPEAKER_02: at your data like more intimately that would require an advanced search in january
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SPEAKER_02: they expanded their list of activities that can trigger
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SPEAKER_02: an advanced search they also broadened its definition of what counts as
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SPEAKER_02: an electronic device so not just a laptop not just a phone but
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SPEAKER_02: a sim card smart watches a camera these electronic device searches in 2025 increased
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SPEAKER_02: by 18 percent from the prior year and 32 percent from 2023
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SPEAKER_02: the reigning theme here is quieter tactics right for me this is
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SPEAKER_02: a ticking time bomb i could see this number exploding this year
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SPEAKER_02: because it basically relies
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SPEAKER_02: on people understanding their basic rights right it also relies on them on people
14:36
SPEAKER_02: that may be the subject to an advanced search to practice safe data and tech safety
14:42
SPEAKER_02: to have safe practices when it comes to their phones and laptops we sometimes take
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SPEAKER_03: data hygiene
14:48
SPEAKER_03: not as seriously as we could but kelly and i were both journalists who have had
14:52
SPEAKER_03: to deal with a lot
14:53
SPEAKER_03: of this certainly when i've traveled to china i take what often seem
14:57
SPEAKER_03: to be pretty drastic measures
14:59
SPEAKER_03: like i will not bring a phone or computer that i've used in the united states into china
15:03
SPEAKER_03: what we're finding is
15:17
SPEAKER_03: ice hand down
15:37
SPEAKER_03: for the love of God,
15:39
SPEAKER_03: do not use SMS text messages. Get on Signal, get on WhatsApp. Encrypted end -to -end
15:45
SPEAKER_03: encrypted messaging is your friend.
15:47
SPEAKER_03: Social media is not your friend so I just want to remind people
15:51
SPEAKER_03: to be safe and let's turn back to this specific story.
15:56
SPEAKER_03: Kelly how is ICE justifying its new tactics
16:00
SPEAKER_02: these new tactics are under the guise of
16:02
SPEAKER_02: a national security threat right whatever they deem
16:06
SPEAKER_02: a national security threat can constitute any number of these policies
16:10
SPEAKER_02: for being activated the trouble here is that the fbi revealed a very new definition
16:17
SPEAKER_02: of what constitutes a national security concern we've talked about this
16:20
SPEAKER_02: on our podcast before back in may and we're going to link that episode
16:25
SPEAKER_02: in our newsletter for those who sign up for our newsletter
16:28
SPEAKER_02: the fbi has defined a national security concern as anything
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SPEAKER_02: that is anti-capitalist anything that is anti-christian and anyone who behaves
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SPEAKER_02: in extremist ways on migration race gender and gender ideology extremism
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SPEAKER_02: That's an extremely broad definition of a national security concern.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: This matters in a lot of great ways, but also what they constitute as a national
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SPEAKER_02: security concern is any threats made to ICE officers and this is where I bring
16:56
SPEAKER_02: in a new report from Wired magazine that was published this week.
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SPEAKER_02: It really brings it into sharp relief so there's this office called the U.S.
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SPEAKER_02: Government's Office of Professional Responsibility.
17:06
SPEAKER_02: This office was initially designed to conduct internal investigations
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SPEAKER_02: into government malpractice.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: into corruption within the government but now they're using that office
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SPEAKER_02: and its resources and its budget to wield cases
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SPEAKER_02: against us citizens external threats is what they're calling it
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SPEAKER_02: or external cases right now that office has opened over 130 cases
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SPEAKER_02: against us citizens over what ice officials call quote incidences of doxxing
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SPEAKER_02: and threats against ice employees so you would think that this means there is
17:38
SPEAKER_02: a citizen who is imminently taking a gun shooting an ice officer
17:42
SPEAKER_02: thisweekonice
18:01
SPEAKER_02: that ice alleges was doxing an ice agent.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: But that Instagram post was actually one that credited
18:07
SPEAKER_02: a Minnesota Star Tribune article that correctly identified
18:12
SPEAKER_02: the ice agent Jonathan Ross who shot and killed Renee Good in Minnesota.
18:17
SPEAKER_02: So how could she actually be doxing
18:21
SPEAKER_02: you know jonathan ross if she was simply repeating or mirroring what the minnesota star
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SPEAKER_02: tribune had already confirmed to be the case is that jonathan Ross killed renee good
18:29
SPEAKER_02: the agents at this poll site basically told guinea to sign a warning notice and said hey
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SPEAKER_02: you threatened to assault an officer and you need to sign this to say that you acknowledge
18:40
SPEAKER_02: thisweekonice
18:41
SPEAKER_02: guña said she did not sign it because it would have been an admission of guilt
18:45
SPEAKER_02: when i think about dhs secretary mark wayne millen's promise that ice will become
18:49
SPEAKER_02: a quieter organization have quieter tactics i think about
18:54
SPEAKER_02: the quiet ways his department is building the legal and governmental infrastructure
18:59
SPEAKER_02: against u.s citizens criticizing ice i think he's laying his cars down very gently
19:04
SPEAKER_02: so that he can enact change in ways that we're going to see explode in a matter
19:09
SPEAKER_02: of weeks to months in my opinion
19:11
SPEAKER_03: absolutely well i just want
19:13
SPEAKER_03: to bring you guys one last story quickly it's small compared to the others
19:16
SPEAKER_03: but it much discussed much discussed so taylor swift had her wedding
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SPEAKER_03: to travis kelsey on july 3rd and she evidently invited
19:26
SPEAKER_03: a man named stephen j dimitriu he is a man who runs a company that contracts
19:32
SPEAKER_03: with ice
19:33
SPEAKER_03: to run camp east montana the largest detention facility in the country
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SPEAKER_03: in texas now i have to recuse myself from this story because i am
19:41
SPEAKER_03: a well known taylor swift hater but let's not allow my unfair biases
19:45
SPEAKER_03: to intrude here what's the story kelly what happened here
19:48
SPEAKER_02: your guess is as good as mine but here goes what i've read so far this man
19:52
SPEAKER_02: who they invited steven de dimitriau is a top ice contractor right he is
19:56
SPEAKER_02: the executive chair of a mentum
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SPEAKER_02: which operates camp east montana camp east montana is
20:02
SPEAKER_02: a notorious ice detention facility in the fort bliss military base
20:06
SPEAKER_02: in el paso texas it is the largest ice detention facility in the nation
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SPEAKER_02: and also it is as large as the largest federal prison in this country
20:16
SPEAKER_02: and it is a former japanese internment camp that operated during world war ii
20:23
SPEAKER_02: so there is speculation as to how this man made the 1000 member celebrity guest list
20:29
SPEAKER_02: and not blake lively somehow steven is the adoptive father
20:34
SPEAKER_02: of someone named reggie king who is travis kelsey's closest childhood friend
20:39
SPEAKER_02: so it remains to be seen if
20:43
SPEAKER_02: even taylor swift and travis kelsey will reveal an explanation as
20:46
SPEAKER_02: to how this man made the guest list i'm sure she had a team
20:49
SPEAKER_02: that was meticulously planning this wedding to a t and yet in inviting this man
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SPEAKER_02: who runs and operates one of those brutal ice detention facilities
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SPEAKER_02: in this country there is a nod to complicity
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SPEAKER_02: that is particularly violent particularly egregious
21:08
SPEAKER_02: and one that i do feel like is worthy of discussion amid everything else going
21:12
SPEAKER_03: on right now we're going to take a quick break and we will be back
21:16
SPEAKER_03: with reagan williams of human rights watch to discuss her report
21:19
SPEAKER_03: on operation metro surge stay with us
21:25
SPEAKER_02: hey guys kelly here we founded this week
21:28
SPEAKER_02: on ice in february of this year and in just
21:30
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21:35
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21:36
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21:44
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22:19
SPEAKER_02: welcome back to this week on ice i am here with reagan williams who is a researcher
22:24
SPEAKER_02: in the crisis conflict and arms division of human rights watch last month reagan
22:29
SPEAKER_02: and her team published a 180 page investigation titled a manufactured crisis
22:35
SPEAKER_02: which looks into the rash of human rights abuses at the hands
22:38
SPEAKER_02: of ice officers deployed to minneapolis and saint paul during operation metro surge
22:44
SPEAKER_02: between december 2025 and march of this year
22:47
SPEAKER_02: reagan's team interviewed over 130 residents lawyers healthcare workers
22:52
SPEAKER_02: and educators as part of this investigation and found
22:55
SPEAKER_02: that immigration officers detained about 4000 minnesotans over 75 percent of
23:01
SPEAKER_02: whom had no criminal convictions
23:04
SPEAKER_02: today we're sitting down to discuss key findings
23:07
SPEAKER_02: from this breakthrough report operation metro surge's lasting impact
23:11
SPEAKER_02: on minnesota's twin cities and a few of
23:14
SPEAKER_02: the ways human rights watch is recommending oversights and accountability for
23:18
SPEAKER_02: the federal agencies responsible for what happened there reagan welcome to
23:23
SPEAKER_02: the show thank you thanks for having me kelly
23:26
SPEAKER_02: absolutely let's go ahead and jump right in your report details how
23:31
SPEAKER_02: the federal government caused a human rights crisis in minnesota especially
23:35
SPEAKER_02: in minneapolis and saint paul so tell us about some of
23:38
SPEAKER_02: the most consequential human rights abuses you uncovered in your research
23:42
SPEAKER_02: and what it says about the shape that operation metro surge took yeah thank you for
23:48
SPEAKER_01: the question we documented a range of human rights abuses by federal agents
23:52
SPEAKER_01: during operation metro surge
23:54
SPEAKER_01: all of which were consequential in terms of the harm that they inflicted
23:58
SPEAKER_01: on residents listeners may be most familiar with the two killings committed
24:02
SPEAKER_01: by agents in minneapolis of renee good on january 7th by an ice officer and
24:07
SPEAKER_01: then alex preddy by cvp on january 24th we document both killings in detail in
24:13
SPEAKER_01: the report determining that they were unlawful under international human rights law
24:18
SPEAKER_01: but these horrific killings were really just the most visible tip of the iceberg
24:22
SPEAKER_01: of this broader abusive campaign
24:25
SPEAKER_01: in the days after the second killing as abuses continued and things continued
24:29
SPEAKER_01: to escalate we traveled to minneapolis st paul some of the surrounding areas
24:33
SPEAKER_01: where we interviewed immigrants lawyers healthcare providers officials other
24:37
SPEAKER_01: residents who had witnessed or experienced abuse or who had engaged in protest
24:42
SPEAKER_01: and interacted with agents that way
24:44
SPEAKER_01: and alongside those interviews we also analyzed dozens of videos
24:47
SPEAKER_01: and photographs we looked at government data legal filings news articles surveys etc
24:52
SPEAKER_01: and with this information we did a couple of things in the report so first we zoom
24:57
SPEAKER_01: in on and try to describe and analyze specific incidents in great detail incidents
25:02
SPEAKER_01: of excessive force not only the fatal shootings but another non-fatal shooting
25:06
SPEAKER_01: in mid-january dozens of incidents of agents threatening use
25:10
SPEAKER_01: of lethal force approaching residents with guns drawn
25:13
SPEAKER_01: without justification violent arrests the unnecessary smashing of windows throwing
25:18
SPEAKER_01: or people pushing people to the ground who weren't resisting arrest
25:21
SPEAKER_01: the use of less lethal munitions
25:23
SPEAKER_01: so tear gas pepper spray flashbang grenades sometimes at close range and
25:27
SPEAKER_01: without warning or disproportionate to the circumstances at hand in ways that were
25:31
SPEAKER_01: in compliant with international human rights standards on use of course by
25:35
SPEAKER_01: by law enforcement we also looked at detention conditions so at
25:39
SPEAKER_01: the whipple federal building which is just south of minneapolis and it's
25:42
SPEAKER_01: where many immigrants and citizens were detained during metro surge we made findings
25:47
SPEAKER_01: of inhuman integrating conditions of detention
25:49
SPEAKER_01: denial of access to counsel at whipple and then in addition to kind
25:53
SPEAKER_01: of detailing these incidents and specific findings we also use the report
25:57
SPEAKER_01: to zoom out a bit to the wider context of daily life for residents in minnesota
26:03
SPEAKER_01: and what the impacts
26:04
SPEAKER_01: of this violence these arrests abusive detention conditions etc meant
26:08
SPEAKER_01: for people's access to a range of goods and services that are essential
26:13
SPEAKER_01: for other human rights so the right to education to health food work
26:17
SPEAKER_01: and what we found was that people were so terrorized by Operation Metro Surge
26:21
SPEAKER_01: that they restricted their movements,
26:23
SPEAKER_01: particularly immigrants and people of color,
26:25
SPEAKER_01: in some cases, sheltering in their homes for weeks or months.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: We spoke to medical providers who reported notable patient volume drops
26:33
SPEAKER_01: in their clinics,
26:34
SPEAKER_01: relations,
26:35
SPEAKER_01: no shows, people even forewent urgent and emergency care during Metro Surge.
26:39
SPEAKER_01: We also spoke with educators about the impacts on children's attendance
26:42
SPEAKER_01: and participation at school.
26:44
SPEAKER_01: with thousands of children either missing or shifting to online virtual learning
26:48
SPEAKER_01: during metro surge and we also looked at the mental health impacts of
26:51
SPEAKER_01: the operation we spoke with experts who emphasize particular concerns
26:55
SPEAKER_01: for children noting their vulnerability to long-term harm from exposure to the type
27:00
SPEAKER_01: of violence and stress that metro surge inflicted so this is what we mean
27:04
SPEAKER_01: when we talk about the government having created a human rights crisis that such
27:08
SPEAKER_01: a full sweep of human rights were implicated by this operation
27:12
SPEAKER_01: and affected thousands of residents
27:16
SPEAKER_02: you really hone in on the human scale of this immigration surge
27:20
SPEAKER_02: and you put it very well this was a human rights crisis i would like to return to
27:25
SPEAKER_02: that after this one question first about any thoughts you have
27:29
SPEAKER_02: on trump's overall calculus when it comes to his immigration agenda and
27:34
SPEAKER_02: if we saw kind of the markers of his overall idea overall mission right
27:39
SPEAKER_02: in minneapolis what did your findings kind of suggest
27:44
SPEAKER_01: yeah it's a great question i think at the peak
27:47
SPEAKER_01: of operation metro surge it felt apparent that the scale and the visibility of
27:52
SPEAKER_01: the operation was the point administration officials have made clear their goals
27:56
SPEAKER_01: of deterring immigration and trying to coerce people to quote unquote self-deport
28:02
SPEAKER_01: and metro surge came on the heels of large-scale deployments
28:05
SPEAKER_01: in other cities including chicago and los angeles last year
28:09
SPEAKER_01: so initially this felt like we were just seeing the latest escalation
28:11
SPEAKER_01: of these tactics and really the kind of
28:15
SPEAKER_01: shamelessness with which the administration was deploying these agencies
28:18
SPEAKER_01: to commit abuse not only targeting immigrants for detention
28:22
SPEAKER_01: but we've also seen federal agents involved in abusive crackdowns on protests
28:25
SPEAKER_01: in these contexts as well but something really shifted with this deployment
28:30
SPEAKER_01: in minnesota i think the administration probably miscalculated how severe
28:35
SPEAKER_01: the backlash was going to be both from local residents but also the outrage
28:40
SPEAKER_01: that followed the documentation and broadcasting of
28:42
SPEAKER_01: the abuse it turns out people do not like having their white rights or the rights
28:46
SPEAKER_01: of their neighbors trampled on and so people organized they trained
28:50
SPEAKER_01: as legal observers they filmed the actions of the government they protested
28:54
SPEAKER_01: the actions of the government they called their local officials they called
28:57
SPEAKER_01: the representatives in DC they sued the government and they mobilized
29:01
SPEAKER_01: to fill gaps also where the government was falling short providing food
29:04
SPEAKER_01: rights to school rights to doctor's appointments to one another to people
29:08
SPEAKER_01: who are fearful of leaving their homes because of the actions of agents out in
29:10
SPEAKER_01: the streets and i think it's really that response and the work
29:14
SPEAKER_01: of human rights defenders that explains why we haven't seen another operation
29:18
SPEAKER_01: of this scale since that said we are
29:21
SPEAKER_01: of course still seeing abusive immigration enforcement and as time has gone on
29:26
SPEAKER_01: and perhaps the administration is counting on memory fading a little bit
29:30
SPEAKER_01: of metro surge we heard the white house borders are tom homan
29:34
SPEAKER_01: threatened to search agents to new york so we certainly haven't seen the end
29:39
SPEAKER_01: of this i don't think we haven't come out the other side of it so to speak and
29:44
SPEAKER_01: in terms of kind of the growing immigration enforcement apparatus ice
29:49
SPEAKER_01: and cbp are incredibly well resourced they received another additional tens
29:55
SPEAKER_01: of billions of dollars in funding just last month without any reforms or indications
29:59
SPEAKER_01: that they intend to act in a rights respecting way
30:02
SPEAKER_01: i want to be clear like the united states has long committed abuse
30:06
SPEAKER_01: against immigrants that in and of itself isn't new but the rapid expansion
30:11
SPEAKER_01: of immigration enforcement the record number of people who are languishing
30:15
SPEAKER_01: in detention the way the administration is deploying ice to communities
30:18
SPEAKER_01: the increasing use of surveillance technology by ice the near total impunity
30:23
SPEAKER_01: for agents when they do commit abuse and kind of the rhetorical support we hear from
30:28
SPEAKER_01: that even at the very highest levels of
30:31
SPEAKER_01: All of this is leading to human rights abuses on a new scale.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: And I think really at this moment requires rapid intervention by Congress to rein it in.
30:43
SPEAKER_02: You report details that while Operation Metro Surge has ended,
30:46
SPEAKER_02: that most of those responsible for its abuses have not been held accountable.
30:51
SPEAKER_02: So I'd like to turn to this concept of justice and accountability in the context
30:55
SPEAKER_02: of Minneapolis and St. Paul.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: What have these efforts looked like?
30:59
SPEAKER_02: what is justice and accountability looking like right now what will it look like in
31:03
SPEAKER_01: the future yeah it's a great question and i think it's where a lot
31:07
SPEAKER_01: of people are focused now and a range
31:10
SPEAKER_01: of efforts are underway they're essential not only to trying to repair some of
31:15
SPEAKER_01: the harm caused by operation metro surge but also to ensure that ongoing abuse ends
31:19
SPEAKER_01: and that these abuses are not repeated that we never see an operation of this scale
31:24
SPEAKER_01: or this nature again
31:25
SPEAKER_01: A couple of notable efforts that I'll highlight are, first,
31:29
SPEAKER_01: a statewide truth council was established by an executive order from
31:32
SPEAKER_01: the governor earlier this year in Minnesota.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: It's now underway, I think is a really historic effort in the U.S. context.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: It's drawing on international transitional justice practices and what we've seen
31:43
SPEAKER_01: in other countries coming out of conflict or crisis
31:45
SPEAKER_01: and who have established truth commissions often backed by the United Nations
31:49
SPEAKER_01: to establish a really clear historical record.
31:52
SPEAKER_01: so I think having something operate in that vein is
31:55
SPEAKER_01: a really exciting development it's an independent body it's comprised of a range
31:59
SPEAKER_01: of community members a superintendent a doctor a former judge
32:04
SPEAKER_01: and they'll hold hearings this summer and also collect individual testimony and
32:08
SPEAKER_01: then compile all of that into a report with findings later this year i think as with
32:15
SPEAKER_01: the purpose of our report documenting and protecting the truth
32:18
SPEAKER_01: of what happened is is fundamental and to my earlier comment about
32:22
SPEAKER_01: the administration perhaps
32:24
SPEAKER_01: banking on people's memory fading of how bad Operation Metro Surge.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: There are advocates who are working overtime to make sure that does not happen.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: And given that the council is operating over the course of this summer
32:35
SPEAKER_01: and this fall,
32:36
SPEAKER_01: I think it also has the ability to capture some of the medium
32:39
SPEAKER_01: and longer term impacts of the operation and the fallout that it has had,
32:42
SPEAKER_01: particularly on mental health and on children as well.
32:45
SPEAKER_01: Another ongoing effort that I'll note is that Hennepin County,
32:49
SPEAKER_01: which is the county that encompasses Minneapolis,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: the Hennepin County Attorney's Office
32:53
SPEAKER_01: announced investigations into several incidents that could lead to criminal charges
32:57
SPEAKER_01: of individual agents they've already charged an agent with assault for pulling a gun
33:02
SPEAKER_01: on motorists on the highway and they've charged the agent who was responsible for
33:06
SPEAKER_01: the second the non-fatal shooting that i mentioned earlier and then at
33:11
SPEAKER_01: the national level we are pushing congress to hold additional oversight hearings
33:15
SPEAKER_01: to subpoena officials for testimony if necessary and then to enact reforms based on
33:21
SPEAKER_01: that oversight
33:23
SPEAKER_02: and so in honing in on specific incidents in great detail
33:28
SPEAKER_02: as you had mentioned are you hoping that this report can really be the fuel
33:31
SPEAKER_02: for future litigation for for real just tangible justice to to occur for members
33:37
SPEAKER_01: in minneapolis yeah i think what justice
33:40
SPEAKER_01: and accountability looks like varies depending on who you ask
33:43
SPEAKER_01: but like i said there's a range of efforts
33:46
SPEAKER_01: that are underway there have been several lawsuits some are still ongoing
33:50
SPEAKER_01: There are other lawsuits challenging similar practices in other parts of the country.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a really important tool for accountability.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: We've seen in general litigation be an important for rights over the last couple of years.
34:02
SPEAKER_01: I think investigations and prosecutions are also a really important part of this,
34:07
SPEAKER_01: again, to deter future abuse.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: So not only holding those individuals who committed potential violations
34:13
SPEAKER_01: of state criminal law accountable, but also making it clear that
34:17
SPEAKER_01: they cannot continue to act with impunity and that there will be justice
34:20
SPEAKER_01: and accountability if it's not coming from the people that oversee them
34:24
SPEAKER_01: who should be exercising oversight
34:26
SPEAKER_01: and implementing and enforcing their own use of force policies.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: It will come from other actors including potentially local prosecutors or judges
34:34
SPEAKER_01: as well depending on how these lawsuits develop.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: and toward the end of this report you provide a list of recommendations i'm
34:43
SPEAKER_02: so curious as to how you came up with these recommendations and also if you want
34:47
SPEAKER_02: to talk about a few of them definitely yes
34:50
SPEAKER_01: the report includes some 50 recommendations tailored to different levels
34:54
SPEAKER_01: of government they're developed a few different ways obviously based on the findings
34:58
SPEAKER_01: and what led to the abuses in consultation with local advocates we often ask people
35:04
SPEAKER_01: when we're interviewing them that have experienced abuse like what
35:07
SPEAKER_01: justice would look like to them what do they want what would help alleviate the harm
35:10
SPEAKER_01: that they've suffered that also informs our recommendations and
35:14
SPEAKER_01: then ultimately they're of course rooted in international human rights law
35:16
SPEAKER_01: and standards and pushing the u.s government to fulfill its obligations
35:20
SPEAKER_01: under international human rights law at the local level and in
35:23
SPEAKER_01: the immediate term we're asking the state government to ensure
35:26
SPEAKER_01: the truth council is adequately resourced
35:28
SPEAKER_01: to carry out its work we are also recommending that
35:31
SPEAKER_01: the state government work closely with local advocates
35:34
SPEAKER_01: to and community leaders and others to develop plans
35:37
SPEAKER_01: and mechanisms around both accountability,
35:40
SPEAKER_01: but also compensation to help people recover from the harms of Metro Surge.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned,
35:44
SPEAKER_01: it really had an impact on people's access to work,
35:47
SPEAKER_01: healthcare, food,
35:48
SPEAKER_01: these things that have economic costs and impact people's ability
35:51
SPEAKER_01: to live their daily lives.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: And then at the national level,
35:56
SPEAKER_01: we're calling on DHS to halt abusive immigration enforcement practices to refrain
36:00
SPEAKER_01: from launching an effort like Operation Metro Surge anywhere else.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: and to commit to a major overhaul of agency policy and conduct,
36:08
SPEAKER_01: including ceasing enforcement activities at sensitive locations like schools
36:12
SPEAKER_01: and courthouses,
36:14
SPEAKER_01: generally identifying themselves when they are out conducting enforcement,
36:17
SPEAKER_01: which is really important for holding agents accountable,
36:20
SPEAKER_01: refraining from using excessive force,
36:22
SPEAKER_01: documenting and investigating incidents of use of force and publicizing
36:25
SPEAKER_01: that information to help with accountability when policies are violated.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: And then we have several asks directed at Congress
36:33
SPEAKER_01: as i mentioned they're a really critical actor here not only around oversight
36:37
SPEAKER_01: and accountability for dhs but also taking a look at kind of
36:41
SPEAKER_01: the broader legal framework that has either enabled or failed to rein in abuse
36:46
SPEAKER_01: by dhs for example reforming immigration law to end mandatory detention
36:51
SPEAKER_01: the administration's broad application of mandatory detention has swept thousands
36:55
SPEAKER_01: of additional people into
36:56
SPEAKER_01: the immigration detention system human rights watch actually released another report
37:00
SPEAKER_01: last month on the rising death rate in ice custody
37:03
SPEAKER_01: and all of this abuse is of course interrelated and needs to be wholeheartedly
37:07
SPEAKER_02: and holistically addressed reagan thank you so much for your time
37:11
SPEAKER_02: and we look forward to following your work thank you thanks so much kelly
37:16
SPEAKER_03: thank you so much to reagan williams of human rights watch thank you to all of you
37:20
SPEAKER_03: for listening you can reach us as always at thisweekonice.com
37:25
SPEAKER_03: with any questions concerns comments tips anything you want to say we're happy
37:30
SPEAKER_03: to hear you if you like this podcast please please go ahead and share it with
37:35
SPEAKER_03: a friend stay safe look out for your neighbors and we'll see you next time