Latest / The conspiracy / Britain_s Most Infamous Serial Killer _ Dr. Death
Transcript
- 0:00Speaker 1: His patients loved him. They said he was the best
- 0:03Speaker 1: doctor they've ever had. He sat with them, he listened,
- 0:06Speaker 1: He made house calls without being asked, never seemed to rush,
- 0:11Speaker 1: and in the small town of Hyde, England, he was
- 0:14Speaker 1: more than a family physician. He was a fixture, a
- 0:18Speaker 1: trusted presence in living rooms and bedside hospital beds for
- 0:21Speaker 1: more than two decades. But at the time no one
- 0:24Speaker 1: knew he was one of the most prolific serial killers
- 0:28Speaker 1: in history. This is the story of Harold Shipman. Crime, conspiracy, gats,
- 0:34Speaker 1: serial killers and murder, all things that I love to consume,
- 0:37Speaker 1: and I know you do too, you sick, twisted, beautiful,
- 0:40Speaker 1: intellectually minded. Today we are talking about a highly requested
- 0:45Speaker 1: serial killer. So without further ado, let's unbuckle our seatbelts,
- 0:48Speaker 1: go by, fied fro the highways, lamb of the rights,
- 0:50Speaker 1: and busted this windshield into doctor death. Together. Raise your
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- 2:11Speaker 1: and let's get back to it. Harold Frederick Shipman nicknamed Fred,
- 2:16Speaker 1: was born the second of three children on January fourteenth,
- 2:19Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, in Bestwood, Nottingham, an estate sitting on
- 2:24Speaker 1: the northern edge of the city with row after row
- 2:28Speaker 1: of council houses built for working families after the war,
- 2:31Speaker 1: with small gardens and thin walls, and his father, Harold Senior,
- 2:36Speaker 1: drove lorries or in other words, he was driving trucks basically,
- 2:41Speaker 1: and his mother, Vera, stayed home, tending to the house
- 2:44Speaker 1: and children, and she ran the household the way. She
- 2:47Speaker 1: ran everything tightly, and she would decide what the children wore,
- 2:51Speaker 1: how they behaved, and who they spent time with, because
- 2:54Speaker 1: in her mind, the Shipmans were not like other families
- 2:57Speaker 1: on the estate. They were better, but their money said otherwise,
- 3:02Speaker 1: but she didn't care what money said. Her children's clothes
- 3:06Speaker 1: were neat and the manners were sharp, and they didn't
- 3:09Speaker 1: play in the street with the other kids because Vera
- 3:11Speaker 1: didn't allow it, and Harold's father never seemed to push back.
- 3:15Speaker 1: He simply went to work and came home. So whatever
- 3:18Speaker 1: Vera decided about the house and the children, that was
- 3:21Speaker 1: what happened. Now. Harold was a quiet boy. He did
- 3:26Speaker 1: well enough in school, but not remarkably so, and he
- 3:29Speaker 1: kind of kept to himself, and the other children on
- 3:31Speaker 1: the estate did not know him, because Vera had made
- 3:34Speaker 1: sure of it, as we know, and he passed the
- 3:37Speaker 1: eleven plus exam and earned a placement at High Pavement
- 3:40Speaker 1: Grammar School, which was a rather selective school, and Vera
- 3:43Speaker 1: was very proud and at high pavement. Harold worked hard
- 3:48Speaker 1: and he was diligent, which made up for his apparent
- 3:50Speaker 1: lack of brilliance. But still he finished outside the top
- 3:53Speaker 1: of his class. But on the rugby pitch something else
- 3:57Speaker 1: came out. He was physical, sure of himself, confident in
- 4:01Speaker 1: a way that never showed up anywhere else. And the
- 4:04Speaker 1: people who knew him during these years all said the
- 4:07Speaker 1: same thing. Harold kept his distance, but he wasn't mean
- 4:11Speaker 1: about it. He wasn't shy. He simply didn't let anyone in.
- 4:15Speaker 1: He just had walls built up. But when he did talk,
- 4:18Speaker 1: there was something behind it that made people feel like
- 4:21Speaker 1: he was looking past them, you know, like a psychopath.
- 4:25Speaker 1: But as Harold grew into his teenage years, Vera would
- 4:28Speaker 1: get sick and the diagnosis was terminal lung cancer. Yet
- 4:32Speaker 1: she didn't go to the hospital. She stayed home and
- 4:35Speaker 1: the illness took its time, months of it, a slow,
- 4:39Speaker 1: visible decline inside the walls of that house in Bestwood,
- 4:43Speaker 1: and the family doctor began making regular visits, and each
- 4:46Speaker 1: time he came carrying a bag and a syringe to
- 4:49Speaker 1: administer morphine. Because in nineteen sixties Britain, this was how
- 4:52Speaker 1: a dying person was cared for, basically just taking the
- 4:56Speaker 1: edge off essentially, as you're just dying over months and months,
- 5:00Speaker 1: maybe even years at a time, just terre what a
- 5:03Speaker 1: terrible time. The general practitioner came to the house. They
- 5:06Speaker 1: pushed a needle into the patient's arm, and for a
- 5:09Speaker 1: while the suffering was lifted. And Harold was in the
- 5:12Speaker 1: room when the doctor arrived, not just once, but again
- 5:16Speaker 1: and again, and he watched the doctor come through the
- 5:18Speaker 1: front door, and he saw what happened when the morphine
- 5:22Speaker 1: entered his mother's body. The tension in her face just
- 5:25Speaker 1: loosened and the pain let go. And of all her children,
- 5:29Speaker 1: Vera had given Harold the most, the most attention, the
- 5:33Speaker 1: most expectation, and the most of herself. He was the
- 5:37Speaker 1: one she chose to build something out of. And when
- 5:40Speaker 1: the school day ended, Harold went straight to her side
- 5:43Speaker 1: and he took care of her, sitting with her and
- 5:46Speaker 1: staying close. But on June twenty first, nineteen sixty three,
- 5:50Speaker 1: Vera Shipman breathed her last breath at the age of
- 5:53Speaker 1: forty three, and Harold was just seventeen years old. And
- 5:57Speaker 1: he didn't cry where anyone could see, and he didn't
- 6:00Speaker 1: talk about her, so whatever moved through him in the
- 6:03Speaker 1: weeks and months that followed, he kept it sealed, locked
- 6:06Speaker 1: up as tightly as she raised him. But the house
- 6:09Speaker 1: had changed. The person who once held everything together was
- 6:13Speaker 1: now gone, and Harold Senior seemingly made no attempt to
- 6:17Speaker 1: fill the clear void that Vera had left, because he
- 6:20Speaker 1: never really shaped the family she did. But time would
- 6:23Speaker 1: pass and Harold Senior would remarry, and now it was
- 6:27Speaker 1: just a house with people in it, essentially, and Harold
- 6:30Speaker 1: and his father had almost nothing to say to each
- 6:33Speaker 1: other without the woman who had connected them, so they
- 6:36Speaker 1: were left not with a relationship, but essentially silence. And
- 6:40Speaker 1: something at this point would shift in Harold. Something would shift.
- 6:44Speaker 1: When his mother was gone, he just got harder and
- 6:48Speaker 1: more focused, and the ambition Vera had put into him sharpened,
- 6:53Speaker 1: and he decided to become a doctor. So he applied
- 6:56Speaker 1: to medical school, but he would be rejected. His A
- 7:00Speaker 1: level results weren't quite good enough, so he took the
- 7:03Speaker 1: exams again. But of course, getting into medical school from
- 7:06Speaker 1: a Council of State in the nineteen sixties was no
- 7:09Speaker 1: easy task. Nearly every medical student in Britain came from
- 7:13Speaker 1: money and Harold had no money, basically, no connections, no
- 7:17Speaker 1: family legacy in the field, but still he had that
- 7:20Speaker 1: persistence and diligence from his childhood and that was basically
- 7:24Speaker 1: all he had. And his social life during these years
- 7:27Speaker 1: was almost nonexistent, a few acquaintances but no real friends.
- 7:31Speaker 1: He just kind of kept his own company, and finally,
- 7:35Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five, Harold was accepted into the School
- 7:38Speaker 1: of Medicine at the University of Leeds and he packed
- 7:41Speaker 1: his things and went, leaving Bestwood behind him. So it
- 7:45Speaker 1: had been just over two short years since his mother's
- 7:48Speaker 1: passing as Harold arrived at the University of Leeds and
- 7:51Speaker 1: he was now nineteen years old, carrying a Council of
- 7:54Speaker 1: State accent into a profession that did not hand out
- 7:57Speaker 1: many seats to people like him, and Leeds had one
- 8:00Speaker 1: of the bigger medical schools outside London, and the program
- 8:03Speaker 1: was five years long to earn a Bachelor of Medicine,
- 8:06Speaker 1: Bachelor of Surgery or an MBChB decree. So it was
- 8:10Speaker 1: rigorous and structured and designed to weed out anyone who
- 8:14Speaker 1: could not keep up with the pace. But Harold kept
- 8:17Speaker 1: up with the pace. He studied and attended lectures, and
- 8:21Speaker 1: the other students saw what everyone else saw on him.
- 8:23Speaker 1: He kept to himself, choosing not to go out of
- 8:26Speaker 1: his way to make friends. Yet he now carried an
- 8:29Speaker 1: air of arrogance, not necessarily hostile, just kind of removed,
- 8:34Speaker 1: almost like his mother still whispered in his ear, getting
- 8:39Speaker 1: the ed geen vibe. If you know what I mean,
- 8:41Speaker 1: little Mommy's boy. This is never good in a psychopath,
- 8:45Speaker 1: as we had learned. But when he did talk, there
- 8:47Speaker 1: was something in his tone that made people feel like
- 8:50Speaker 1: he was looking down on them. Just a classic misogynistic,
- 8:54Speaker 1: narcissistic psychopath, you know what I'm saying. So naturally few
- 8:58Speaker 1: tried to get close, but this was some he didn't
- 9:00Speaker 1: seem to mind. But it was during this time at
- 9:03Speaker 1: Leeds that Harold would meet a young woman named Primrose
- 9:06Speaker 1: May Aux Toby. And at the time she was seventeen
- 9:09Speaker 1: years old and she had grown up in Weatherby, in
- 9:12Speaker 1: a quiet market town in West Yorkshire, and her parents
- 9:15Speaker 1: were George and Edna Aux Toby, and Primrose was the
- 9:18Speaker 1: youngest daughter in the family and she had grown up
- 9:20Speaker 1: largely on her own because her mother had run a
- 9:22Speaker 1: strict household that discouraged socializing sound familiar, and when Primrose
- 9:28Speaker 1: finished school at sixteen, she went to work at a
- 9:31Speaker 1: shop in town and she would not go to college.
- 9:34Speaker 1: So the two met at a bus stop where Harold
- 9:36Speaker 1: was staying nearby Weatherby at the time, and things between
- 9:39Speaker 1: them seemed to just move quickly, and Primrose would become
- 9:42Speaker 1: pregnant at seventeen, and on November fifth, nineteen sixty six,
- 9:46Speaker 1: they married at a registry office and it was just
- 9:49Speaker 1: a quiet affair, and Harold's father actually disapproved, and their
- 9:53Speaker 1: first child, Sarah, was born in nineteen sixty seven, while
- 9:57Speaker 1: Harold was in the second year of his medical school
- 9:59Speaker 1: and Primro was now eighteen years old, married to a
- 10:03Speaker 1: medical student and raising a child. She had no degree,
- 10:06Speaker 1: no career, and virtually no life outside the one that
- 10:10Speaker 1: she had just walked into. And with her family now
- 10:12Speaker 1: her everything, she developed the habit of backing Harold completely.
- 10:17Speaker 1: But at university nobody saw Harold the husband or Harold
- 10:20Speaker 1: the father. Whatever happened at home just stayed at home,
- 10:24Speaker 1: and the other students just saw someone who seemed older
- 10:27Speaker 1: than he was. He just appeared more serious somehow, as
- 10:31Speaker 1: if weighed down by responsibilities. They didn't share and as
- 10:35Speaker 1: a student, Harold continued to be what he had always been,
- 10:38Speaker 1: hard working, diligent and competent. And Harold finished his degree
- 10:42Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy at the age of twenty four, holding
- 10:45Speaker 1: an MBChB from Leeds. So the working class kid from
- 10:50Speaker 1: Bestwood was now a doctor, the very thing his mother
- 10:53Speaker 1: had wanted most Now His first posting out of medical
- 10:56Speaker 1: school was Pontefract General Infirmary, where he did his preregistration
- 11:01Speaker 1: house officer year, and this was pretty unglamorous work, long shift,
- 11:06Speaker 1: slow pay and the constant hum of a busy hospital,
- 11:10Speaker 1: and the General Medical Council formally registered him on August fifth,
- 11:14Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one, meaning he was officially licensed to practice
- 11:17Speaker 1: medicine in Britain, and the colleagues who worked alongside him
- 11:21Speaker 1: in these early years noted his competence. He knew the medicine,
- 11:25Speaker 1: but he was short with people and he would talk
- 11:27Speaker 1: to colleagues like they were beneath him. On multiple occasions,
- 11:30Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Ah, you're classic doctor, but that's
- 11:32Speaker 1: not true. I've met lots of doctors who are very,
- 11:35Speaker 1: very nice, but you know, just like that classic, like
- 11:38Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy Senior doctor. I'm just like hoity toity, I'm
- 11:42Speaker 1: better than all of you, OLIVI are stupid, you know.
- 11:44Speaker 1: I don't even want to bother with any of you.
- 11:46Speaker 1: But the thing is, he's a new doctor here, so
- 11:49Speaker 1: that's just it just seems crazy. We love our first
- 11:51Speaker 1: responders on this channel a right massive respect. And at
- 11:55Speaker 1: home his family was growing. Eventually there would be four children, Sarah, Christopher,
- 12:00Speaker 1: David and Sam, and Primos stayed home with them and
- 12:03Speaker 1: the family lived modestly, and come nineteen seventy four, Harold
- 12:07Speaker 1: signed on at the Abraham Omarrod Medical practice in todd Morton,
- 12:12Speaker 1: which sat in a valley where the Pennine Mountains towered
- 12:15Speaker 1: on both sides, straddling the line between West Yorkshire and Lancashire,
- 12:19Speaker 1: and it had been a mill town for as long
- 12:21Speaker 1: as anyone could remember. About three thousand people were on
- 12:25Speaker 1: the practice's books and it was a group practice, and
- 12:28Speaker 1: Harold was one of the multiple general practitioners working there,
- 12:32Speaker 1: and his patients were mill workers, pensioners and young families,
- 12:36Speaker 1: working people who had lived in these hills their whole lives.
- 12:39Speaker 1: And he settled in quickly and patients took to him
- 12:42Speaker 1: almost immediately, because he was thorough during appointments and he
- 12:46Speaker 1: paid attention, and he made house calls willingly without being pressed.
- 12:50Speaker 1: And in a place like tad Morton that mattered because
- 12:53Speaker 1: people dependent on their local doctor in a way that
- 12:56Speaker 1: was hard to overstate, because the nearest hospital was a
- 12:59Speaker 1: ways away, so trust wasn't given casually, but once earned,
- 13:03Speaker 1: it ran deep, and Harold earned it, and somewhere in
- 13:07Speaker 1: those early months in todd Morten, Harold began helping himself
- 13:11Speaker 1: to pethidine. Now, pethidine was a synthetic opioid, and in
- 13:15Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies it was one of the most commonly
- 13:18Speaker 1: used painkillers in British medicine. General practitioners kept it on
- 13:22Speaker 1: hand as a matter of routine, with virtually no system
- 13:25Speaker 1: in place to watch how much of it a doctor
- 13:28Speaker 1: was using, and the drug would produce a warm rush
- 13:31Speaker 1: of euphoria, dulling the user's pain and quieting the mind,
- 13:35Speaker 1: and when injected, the effect was immediate and consuming. So
- 13:39Speaker 1: Harold quickly developed the habit of using and he had
- 13:42Speaker 1: a simple system to acquire his fix. He put other
- 13:46Speaker 1: people's names on the prescriptions. Patients who never asked for
- 13:50Speaker 1: pethidine and never received a single dose. And meanwhile, he
- 13:54Speaker 1: also inflated the practice's supply order to make sure there
- 13:57Speaker 1: was always more than anyone could account for. And the
- 14:00Speaker 1: paperwork looked routine, just totally normal. No one was checking
- 14:05Speaker 1: closely enough to see that it was not, because on paper,
- 14:08Speaker 1: no visible changes were seen in his work, and he
- 14:12Speaker 1: would still show up on time, and he would still
- 14:14Speaker 1: see patients, and he still went home to Primrose and
- 14:17Speaker 1: the children at the end of the day. But underneath,
- 14:20Speaker 1: something was wrong, and Harold was spotted looking unwell on
- 14:24Speaker 1: more than one occasion, and once he went down completely
- 14:27Speaker 1: unable to function. But these moments came and went, and
- 14:31Speaker 1: no one connected them to anything larger until someone finally
- 14:35Speaker 1: looked at the books about a year and a half
- 14:37Speaker 1: into Harold's time at the practice, around the end of
- 14:40Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, and the controlled drug records showed far
- 14:44Speaker 1: more pathodye moving through Harold's prescriptions than his patients could
- 14:48Speaker 1: possibly require, prescriptions going out under the names of people
- 14:52Speaker 1: who had no business being on pethidine. And this observation
- 14:56Speaker 1: made its way to the other doctors, and the partners
- 14:59Speaker 1: began looking closer, and the truth was undeniable. So the
- 15:03Speaker 1: other doctors sat Harold down to lay out what they
- 15:05Speaker 1: had found, and the gap between what ordered and what
- 15:08Speaker 1: was used was too wide for anyone to pretend it
- 15:11Speaker 1: was not there, and Harold admitted he had been taking pathody. Ah,
- 15:15Speaker 1: I dug a little bit on drunk, so i'll I
- 15:17Speaker 1: was taking care of the patients. I don't know why
- 15:21Speaker 1: Harold is now from New York City, but anyway, but
- 15:25Speaker 1: he would tell them that he wanted help for his problem,
- 15:28Speaker 1: and he asked for a chance to get better. Because
- 15:31Speaker 1: the moment he was pinned down, his defiance disappeared, and
- 15:34Speaker 1: he actually turned remorseful, or what appeared as remorseful, playing
- 15:38Speaker 1: the part of someone who had tripped once and just
- 15:41Speaker 1: needed a hand getting up. And people believed him because
- 15:44Speaker 1: he was very convincing. He was a smart fella. But
- 15:47Speaker 1: he would still be pushed out of the practice, whether
- 15:50Speaker 1: by resignation or dismissal, dependent on who told the story,
- 15:53Speaker 1: but the result was the same. Harold was gone because
- 15:57Speaker 1: what had happened at the practice was passed along the
- 16:00Speaker 1: Home Office Drugs branch, and in February of nineteen seventy six,
- 16:04Speaker 1: Harold stood before a magistrate at Halifax Magistrate's Court and
- 16:08Speaker 1: the charges were obtaining pathodine by deception, on lawful possession
- 16:12Speaker 1: of a controlled drug, and forgery of prescription and the
- 16:16Speaker 1: sentence was a fine of six hundred pounds and he
- 16:19Speaker 1: paid it and would just walk out. And Harold checked
- 16:22Speaker 1: himself into the Retreat, a psychiatric hospital in York that
- 16:26Speaker 1: ran a drug rehabilitation program, where he stayed through the
- 16:29Speaker 1: winter of nineteen seventy five and into nineteen seventy six,
- 16:33Speaker 1: completing the program. And despite his crimes and stay at rehab,
- 16:37Speaker 1: the General Medical Council didn't take his license. Bombastic side
- 16:42Speaker 1: eye right there to the Medical Council. Nobody sent his
- 16:45Speaker 1: case to the GMC's Professional Conduct Committee, so he was
- 16:49Speaker 1: not struck off the medical register. A doctor had been
- 16:53Speaker 1: convicted of a drug crime involving a controlled substance and
- 16:57Speaker 1: the body responsible for protecting the public did nothing, which
- 17:01Speaker 1: sounds like, you know, it sounds bad, it's pretty bad,
- 17:06Speaker 1: but what happens after is significantly worse. And it's because
- 17:11Speaker 1: of this failure. But this was due to the fact
- 17:14Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six, a criminal conviction for drug offenses
- 17:17Speaker 1: did not automatically trigger a GMC fitness to practice hearing.
- 17:21Speaker 1: So Harold passed through the gap and he remained in
- 17:24Speaker 1: the eyes of the law and the profession of fully
- 17:27Speaker 1: registered medical practitioner, and Primos stayed with him through all
- 17:31Speaker 1: of it, the confrontation, the criminal proceedings, the rehabilitation, and
- 17:35Speaker 1: the return. She did not leave, and she did not waiver,
- 17:39Speaker 1: and the family remained intact. And Harold then landed a
- 17:42Speaker 1: job in County Durham, where he worked as a clinical
- 17:45Speaker 1: medical officer for the local health authority, handling community health duties,
- 17:50Speaker 1: but the job did not last long. By nineteen seventy seven,
- 17:53Speaker 1: he applied for a new position and was accepted as
- 17:56Speaker 1: a general practitioner at the Donnybrook Medical Center in High
- 18:00Speaker 1: Greater Manchester, a town that had never heard of him,
- 18:03Speaker 1: and a practice that was willing to take a chance
- 18:06Speaker 1: on a doctor with a difficult past. Because despite his
- 18:09Speaker 1: new colleagues at Donnybrook knowing what had happened in Todd Warden,
- 18:13Speaker 1: it didn't take long for Harold to become the most
- 18:16Speaker 1: popular doctor in the building. He was thorough spending real
- 18:20Speaker 1: time with his patients, sitting with them, listening to their complaints,
- 18:23Speaker 1: explaining what was happening inside their bodies, and he continued
- 18:27Speaker 1: making house calls gladly as he did before. Word would
- 18:31Speaker 1: get around and more and more people asked to be
- 18:33Speaker 1: on his books. They wanted Harold over other doctors in
- 18:37Speaker 1: the building and furthering his connections, he got involved beyond
- 18:40Speaker 1: the surgery walls, and local medical committees brought him on
- 18:44Speaker 1: and he joined community groups, including the Rochdale Canal Society,
- 18:48Speaker 1: and eventually, in nineteen ninety two, Harold left Donnybrook to
- 18:52Speaker 1: open his own solo practice at twenty one Market Street
- 18:55Speaker 1: in Hyde, and in nineteen ninety three he started off
- 18:58Speaker 1: strong with a client list of over two thousand people,
- 19:02Speaker 1: many of which had followed him from Donnybrook, and the
- 19:05Speaker 1: move changed everything about how Harold operated. Now there was
- 19:09Speaker 1: no partners to review his prescriptions, no colleagues glancing at
- 19:13Speaker 1: his patient's records, no one monitoring how he scheduled appointments
- 19:18Speaker 1: or managed drugstock. He controlled it all and was accountable
- 19:22Speaker 1: to no one but himself. All right, let's take a
- 19:25Speaker 1: quick pause to set the scene. Okay, it's nine pm.
- 19:28Speaker 1: I'm exhausted from researching cases after cases after cases, and
- 19:33Speaker 1: there is something healthy in the fridge that I'm supposed
- 19:37Speaker 1: to be making, but I'm not making it. And for me,
- 19:40Speaker 1: eating healthy isn't necessarily a will power problem. I feel
- 19:43Speaker 1: good when I eat it, and I like to eat healthy.
- 19:45Speaker 1: It's just a set up problem, really, until I found
- 19:49Speaker 1: a factor in. Factor solves this problem with fully prepared
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- 19:57Speaker 1: to my door, ready in two minutes, and I'm hit
- 20:00Speaker 1: the nutrition goals without the planning and the grocery runs
- 20:03Speaker 1: or the cooking. I cannot express how much I don't
- 20:06Speaker 1: like cooking. Guys. My favorite is the muscle Pro collection.
- 20:11Speaker 1: High protein keeps me full while I'm researching these cases
- 20:14Speaker 1: or just going about my day trying to keep up
- 20:16Speaker 1: with my dogs and my four cats. But Factor has
- 20:19Speaker 1: meals built around your goals, whether it's weight loss, overall nutrition,
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- 20:27Speaker 1: never frozen meals rotating weekly. I use it, and I've
- 20:32Speaker 1: used it for a very long time kill and I
- 20:34Speaker 1: love it, and you should definitely try it out. But
- 20:36Speaker 1: before Hyde, before Market Street, before any of it, there
- 20:41Speaker 1: was Eva Lions, seventy years old, living in Todd Morten
- 20:45Speaker 1: in early nineteen seventy five, so we're going back almost
- 20:49Speaker 1: twenty years terminally ill with cancer, and Harold was her doctor.
- 20:55Speaker 1: On March seventeenth, nineteen seventy five, Harold visited Eva in
- 20:59Speaker 1: her home and he tended to her, sat with her husband,
- 21:02Speaker 1: talking with him for a short while, and by the
- 21:04Speaker 1: time he left, Eva would be dead, and her death
- 21:08Speaker 1: certificate listed cancer as the cause, and no one questioned it.
- 21:13Speaker 1: A dying woman had died and her body was cremated.
- 21:16Speaker 1: And then there was Mary West who was an eighty
- 21:19Speaker 1: one year old widow and she lived alone in her
- 21:21Speaker 1: home and hide and she didn't need anyone's help doing it.
- 21:24Speaker 1: She did have arthritis in her legs, her hips, and
- 21:27Speaker 1: her back, poor circulation, and a new inhaler for asthma,
- 21:31Speaker 1: but none of it slowed her down because she had
- 21:33Speaker 1: a busy social life, ran a clothing shop in town,
- 21:36Speaker 1: and she was even planning to book herself a holiday
- 21:39Speaker 1: at Buttland's and her son Christopher had been staying with
- 21:42Speaker 1: her for a few days and she seemed fine to him,
- 21:45Speaker 1: in pretty good shape for eighty one in fact. But
- 21:48Speaker 1: in late February she saw Harold about her arthritis, and
- 21:52Speaker 1: he prescribed his favorite pethodine tablets, but they just made
- 21:56Speaker 1: her feel worse, actually, and by March six, the pain
- 21:59Speaker 1: was still bob her, so she asked him to come
- 22:02Speaker 1: to the house, and that morning her good friend Marian
- 22:05Speaker 1: had Field stopped by and Mary had tea with them
- 22:08Speaker 1: and they sat together chatting, watching television, waiting for the doctor.
- 22:12Speaker 1: And Harold arrived while Marian was upstairs using the bathroom,
- 22:15Speaker 1: and when she came back down, she heard voices in
- 22:18Speaker 1: the living room, so she waited in the kitchen, and
- 22:20Speaker 1: after a while the voices stopped and Harold walked into
- 22:24Speaker 1: the kitchen, looking surprised to see her, and he said
- 22:27Speaker 1: Mary had passed on, and Marian asked if there was
- 22:31Speaker 1: anything he could do, but Harold said it was too late.
- 22:34Speaker 1: She was gone, and Marian walked into the living room
- 22:37Speaker 1: to see Mary sitting in her chair in the exact
- 22:39Speaker 1: same position she had been for a short while before,
- 22:42Speaker 1: and she looked like she had just nodded off watching television.
- 22:46Speaker 1: But Harold wouldn't try to resuscitate her. He simply checked
- 22:49Speaker 1: her eyes. No sign of life, he said, and he
- 22:52Speaker 1: told Marian he had only looked away for a moment
- 22:54Speaker 1: to gather his things, and when he looked back, Mary
- 22:57Speaker 1: had collapsed, and he called Mary's son, Chris, and the
- 23:00Speaker 1: story then changed, and he told Christopher he had taken
- 23:04Speaker 1: his mother's blood pressure, went to put the machine back
- 23:07Speaker 1: into his car, and when he came back in, she
- 23:09Speaker 1: was no longer living. And when Christopher arrived, Harold told
- 23:13Speaker 1: him it was a massive stroke. And he said that
- 23:16Speaker 1: he had expected this would happen at some point because
- 23:19Speaker 1: her arteries had begun hardening, and in this case he
- 23:22Speaker 1: didn't try to bring her back because she would have
- 23:25Speaker 1: been a quote unquote vegetable, and he did not say
- 23:27Speaker 1: a post mortem examination should be done. So three people
- 23:31Speaker 1: heard three versions of how Mary West died, and the
- 23:35Speaker 1: only thing that stayed the same was the ending. Harold
- 23:38Speaker 1: filled out the death certificate with cause of death cerebrovascular accident,
- 23:43Speaker 1: and on the cremation form he wrote that a neighbor
- 23:46Speaker 1: was present at an eighty one year old widow with
- 23:49Speaker 1: bad arteries and high blood pressure had died of a
- 23:52Speaker 1: stroke in her living room, and her doctor had been
- 23:54Speaker 1: right there when it happened. No one questioned it. And
- 23:58Speaker 1: then there was Irene Turner, who was sixty seven years old.
- 24:02Speaker 1: She had diabetes, arterial disease, breast cancer, and had a
- 24:06Speaker 1: heart attack two years before, but still she kept herself busy,
- 24:11Speaker 1: and she got out regularly and stayed active. And she
- 24:13Speaker 1: had just come back from a week's holiday in Torque,
- 24:16Speaker 1: and her friends and family all said the same thing.
- 24:19Speaker 1: Irene was doing well, but after the holiday she did
- 24:22Speaker 1: pick up a cold and she was coughing up phlem
- 24:25Speaker 1: vomiting even and her daughter Carol and son in law
- 24:28Speaker 1: Michael told her to call the doctor. So on July eleventh,
- 24:31Speaker 1: now nineteen ninety six, Irene called Harold's surgery and asked
- 24:35Speaker 1: for a visit, and she stayed in bed, telling Michael
- 24:38Speaker 1: she wanted to meat and potato pie for lunch and
- 24:40Speaker 1: requested he brings some over, and as he dropped it off,
- 24:43Speaker 1: she told him she would eat it once the doctor
- 24:45Speaker 1: had left. And at two fifteen in the afternoon, Irene
- 24:48Speaker 1: called Michael again, but Harold still hadn't shown up, and
- 24:52Speaker 1: she sounded like herself, but this would be the last
- 24:54Speaker 1: time anyone would hear her voice, and at around three
- 24:58Speaker 1: twenty five PM, a neighbor named Sheila Ward saw Harold
- 25:02Speaker 1: sitting in his car on the street, and he asked
- 25:04Speaker 1: her to go into Irene's house, but wait five minutes first,
- 25:08Speaker 1: he said, he didn't explain why, very extremely odd, but
- 25:12Speaker 1: going to her house, but wait five minutes. Give it
- 25:14Speaker 1: five minutes to make sure you're gonna get that. She's
- 25:18Speaker 1: probably passed away. And when Sheila went in to check
- 25:21Speaker 1: on her, Irene was dead in bed and she was
- 25:25Speaker 1: on her back, head on the pillows, arms laid on
- 25:28Speaker 1: top of the blankets which were pulled smooth and straight
- 25:32Speaker 1: up to her chest. And Harold came in behind Sheila
- 25:35Speaker 1: to tell her Irene had died of diabetes and it
- 25:38Speaker 1: had spread all through her body, and was already too
- 25:41Speaker 1: late to take her to the hospital. And he called Michael.
- 25:44Speaker 1: No need for a post mortem. He said he had
- 25:46Speaker 1: told Irene to go to the hospital, but she didn't
- 25:49Speaker 1: want to. And he told another son in law, Alfred Isherwood,
- 25:52Speaker 1: something different this time it was ischemic heart disease, a
- 25:57Speaker 1: long convoluted explanation, no pain, he would say, she just
- 26:01Speaker 1: went in her sleep. But then he took it a
- 26:03Speaker 1: step further, blaming Irene, and she had waited too long
- 26:07Speaker 1: to call him and she would have survived if she
- 26:10Speaker 1: had called him sooner, he would say, and Alfred would
- 26:13Speaker 1: think the situation was odd. But Irene had held Harold's
- 26:16Speaker 1: opinions highly so she always took his advice. So if
- 26:20Speaker 1: Harold had told her to go to the hospital as
- 26:22Speaker 1: he said he did, she would have gone. And Harold
- 26:26Speaker 1: would fill out the death certificate with the wrong date,
- 26:29Speaker 1: writing July tenth instead of July eleventh, and claimed to
- 26:32Speaker 1: sign it on July tenth, and he listed the cause
- 26:35Speaker 1: as circulatory failure with ischemic heart disease and diabetes underneath.
- 26:40Speaker 1: So just extremely odd in all these circumstances, he's just
- 26:44Speaker 1: lying about how they're dying to different people and not
- 26:47Speaker 1: really caring because what are they going to do? You know,
- 26:50Speaker 1: he's a doctor, and they were already sick and they died.
- 26:53Speaker 1: And that brings us to Lizzie Adams. Now, Lizzie Adams
- 26:56Speaker 1: lived alone, and she was a widow, and she had
- 26:59Speaker 1: spent her career a ballroom dancer, and at seventy seven
- 27:02Speaker 1: she was still at it, and she still had a
- 27:05Speaker 1: dancing partner. And she had come back from a holiday
- 27:07Speaker 1: in Malta with a group of friends and she was
- 27:10Speaker 1: in remarkable shape for her age, and she was home
- 27:13Speaker 1: from Malta with a cold and a cough, and the
- 27:15Speaker 1: day after returning she spent the whole afternoon shopping in
- 27:18Speaker 1: Stockport with her daughter Doreen, and by the end of
- 27:21Speaker 1: the day she was ready to rest and the cough
- 27:24Speaker 1: was bothering her. Doreen picked up an antibiotic from Harold's
- 27:27Speaker 1: surgery and dropped it off at her mother's house. So
- 27:31Speaker 1: on Friday, February twenty eighth, nineteen ninety seven. The next morning,
- 27:35Speaker 1: Lizzie told Doreen the antibiotic quote unquote, nearly blew her
- 27:39Speaker 1: head off, and at twelve ten she called the surgery
- 27:43Speaker 1: and the receptionist wrote down her symptoms dizziness and nausea
- 27:46Speaker 1: and just unsteady on her feet, and she wanted a visit,
- 27:50Speaker 1: but she continued on with her day as normal, and
- 27:53Speaker 1: that morning she hand washed clothes and hung them dry,
- 27:56Speaker 1: and she started cooking her evening meal, and when Harold
- 27:58Speaker 1: arrived in the early afternoon, un the ironing board was
- 28:01Speaker 1: set up in the kitchen with the iron ready to go,
- 28:04Speaker 1: and sometime in the midafternoon, Lizzie's friend William Cotlow arrived
- 28:08Speaker 1: at the house, noticing the front door was unlocked, and
- 28:11Speaker 1: he found Harold in the front room standing by a
- 28:13Speaker 1: china cabinet looking into it, and Harold told him Lizzie
- 28:17Speaker 1: had taken a bad turn and that he was arranging
- 28:20Speaker 1: to get her to the hospital. William walked through the
- 28:23Speaker 1: back room and Lizzie was in her chair, settled in
- 28:26Speaker 1: like she had just closed her eyes for a minute,
- 28:28Speaker 1: and he took her hand and it was still warm,
- 28:31Speaker 1: and he turned to Harold saying, quote unquote, I think
- 28:34Speaker 1: she fainted, and Harold walked over saying, quote, she's gone unquote,
- 28:40Speaker 1: and he would cancel the ambulance, and again he did
- 28:43Speaker 1: not examine her, and Harold called the Thoroughly House and
- 28:47Speaker 1: told Doreen's husband he had ordered an ambulance to take
- 28:50Speaker 1: Lizzie to the hospital, and then he called Doreen at
- 28:53Speaker 1: work and said her mother needed to go to the hospital,
- 28:55Speaker 1: and he didn't tell either of them that she was
- 28:58Speaker 1: already deceased. Jean rushed to her mother's house and Lizzie
- 29:02Speaker 1: was still in her chair, legs crossed in a relaxing position,
- 29:06Speaker 1: and Harold abruptly told her that her mother had died
- 29:09Speaker 1: of pneumonia, and he said there was no need for
- 29:12Speaker 1: a post mortem again because he had been present at
- 29:16Speaker 1: the death. How convenient. And the next day Lizzie's other daughter, Sonia,
- 29:20Speaker 1: went to see Harold and he told her he had
- 29:22Speaker 1: called an ambulance but canceled it after Lizzie had died.
- 29:26Speaker 1: But no call to the ambulance service was ever made
- 29:29Speaker 1: from that house, and Harold filled up the death certificate
- 29:33Speaker 1: with cause of death broncho pneumonia, lasting twelve to twenty
- 29:37Speaker 1: four hours, and on the cremation form he put the
- 29:40Speaker 1: time of death at two point fifty in the afternoon,
- 29:43Speaker 1: about fifty minutes after he arrived. And he wrote that
- 29:46Speaker 1: a neighbor, missus Catlow, was there when she died as well.
- 29:50Speaker 1: And that brings us to Jeane Lily, who was fifty
- 29:53Speaker 1: eight years old and her husband Albert, drove long distance
- 29:58Speaker 1: for a living, and he kept a mobile phone on
- 30:00Speaker 1: him at all times, never turned it off. And Jeane's
- 30:03Speaker 1: health wasn't the best. She did have heart disease, hypertension,
- 30:07Speaker 1: and respiratory problems and she got around in a wheelchair
- 30:10Speaker 1: anytime she went out, but she managed to at home
- 30:14Speaker 1: and for a couple of days she had a cold
- 30:16Speaker 1: and a cough, and on the morning of April twenty fifth,
- 30:19Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Albert called her from the road to
- 30:22Speaker 1: check in and she told him she had called the
- 30:24Speaker 1: doctor and asked him to come by and she was
- 30:26Speaker 1: currently waiting for him. And her neighbor, Elizabeth Hunter, came
- 30:29Speaker 1: by that morning as well, and they had tea together
- 30:32Speaker 1: and just chatted, and Jeane told her the same thing,
- 30:34Speaker 1: that she wasn't feeling well and was just waiting for
- 30:37Speaker 1: the doctor. And from back at her own house, Elizabeth
- 30:39Speaker 1: saw Harold show up around noon, and forty five minutes
- 30:43Speaker 1: later she would see him leave and she headed over
- 30:46Speaker 1: to check on Jean and found her on the sofa
- 30:49Speaker 1: and she looked like she had just fallen asleep, but
- 30:51Speaker 1: when Elizabeth took her hand, it was ice cold, so
- 30:55Speaker 1: she would run outside to try to catch Harold, but
- 30:57Speaker 1: he was already gone, so she went back in and
- 30:59Speaker 1: try to bring Jean back, but there was nothing to
- 31:02Speaker 1: be done. Jean's lips were already blue, and Elizabeth called
- 31:06Speaker 1: the surgery and they told her to call for an ambulance,
- 31:09Speaker 1: and she did so at one nineteen in the afternoon,
- 31:12Speaker 1: and the paramedics arrived ten minutes later to pronounce Jean
- 31:15Speaker 1: as dead, and they moved her body into the bedroom,
- 31:19Speaker 1: and then Harold showed up, but he didn't go into
- 31:22Speaker 1: the bedroom. He didn't take a look at Jean. He
- 31:25Speaker 1: told the paramedics that he would handle the death certificate.
- 31:29Speaker 1: Jean had been ill for a very long time and
- 31:32Speaker 1: he had seen this coming. And Elizabeth was just in tears,
- 31:36Speaker 1: and Harold was short with her, not good bedside manner
- 31:39Speaker 1: as we know, telling her Jeane had just had a
- 31:42Speaker 1: bad heart and this was bound to happen soon. And
- 31:45Speaker 1: when he talked to Albert, Jean's husband, he said he
- 31:48Speaker 1: had tried to get Jean to go to the hospital,
- 31:50Speaker 1: but she just wouldn't go. And he said he had
- 31:53Speaker 1: been waiting for Albert to come home so he could
- 31:56Speaker 1: talk her into it, but by then it was too
- 31:59Speaker 1: late her her heart gave out, but Albert didn't buy it.
- 32:03Speaker 1: Jean had respected Harold fully. She had always taken his
- 32:07Speaker 1: advice before without hesitation. If Harold had told her to
- 32:11Speaker 1: go to the hospital, she would have gone, And if
- 32:14Speaker 1: she really wanted to talk it over, she would have
- 32:17Speaker 1: picked up the phone and called Albert himself. Because she
- 32:20Speaker 1: knew his phone was always on. But Harold filled out
- 32:24Speaker 1: the death certificate cause of death heart failure due to
- 32:27Speaker 1: ischemic heart disease and hypertension, and he was the last
- 32:31Speaker 1: person with her before she passed. And then there was
- 32:34Speaker 1: Ivy Lomas, who was sixty three years old. She was
- 32:38Speaker 1: not well because she had chronic lung disease, depression, and anxiety,
- 32:42Speaker 1: and she had smoked forty cigarettes a day for years
- 32:46Speaker 1: and it had taken a toll and walking any distance
- 32:49Speaker 1: winded her and lifting anything with decent weight was just
- 32:52Speaker 1: out of the question. And a neighbor took her dog
- 32:54Speaker 1: out every day because she wasn't able to do it herself,
- 32:58Speaker 1: and her adult son had a psychic illness and it
- 33:01Speaker 1: weighed on her constantly. So Ivy was a regular at
- 33:04Speaker 1: Harold's surgery. And on the morning of May twenty ninth,
- 33:07Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, she told a neighbor that she had
- 33:10Speaker 1: pains in her chest and arms, but she still went
- 33:12Speaker 1: out that morning to arrange care for her son, and
- 33:15Speaker 1: in the afternoon she headed into Hide for a four
- 33:18Speaker 1: o'clock appointment with Harold, and she got there ahead of schedule,
- 33:22Speaker 1: looking a bit pale. But on her feet nonetheless, and
- 33:25Speaker 1: she made it into the consulting room without help, and
- 33:28Speaker 1: after a short time Harold moved Ivy from his consulting
- 33:32Speaker 1: room to the treatment room down the hall, and about
- 33:34Speaker 1: ten minutes later he appeared at reception, looking red in
- 33:38Speaker 1: the face, and he told the waiting room he was
- 33:40Speaker 1: sorry for the hold up, saying he had a problem
- 33:43Speaker 1: with the ECG machine, and then he called the next
- 33:46Speaker 1: patient in, and the next and the next, and then
- 33:50Speaker 1: he called in his receptionist, Carol Chapman, and he told
- 33:53Speaker 1: her that he had been trying to take an ECG
- 33:55Speaker 1: reading on Ivy but thought the machine was just broken,
- 33:59Speaker 1: and then he realized Ivy had died. He said he
- 34:02Speaker 1: tried to bring her back but couldn't, instructing Carol to
- 34:05Speaker 1: contact Ivy's son, Jack, but Carroll couldn't reach him, so
- 34:09Speaker 1: she called the police instead, and when Constable Reid arrived,
- 34:13Speaker 1: he found Ivy fully clothed on the treatment room bed,
- 34:16Speaker 1: and Harold told him he could certify the death as
- 34:19Speaker 1: natural causes. But Constable Reid was curious and he asked
- 34:24Speaker 1: what had happened, and Harold told him Ivy had come
- 34:27Speaker 1: in about bronchial problems, and after treating her, he had
- 34:30Speaker 1: shown her into the treatment room to rest, and he
- 34:33Speaker 1: kept working through his client list, and when he checked
- 34:36Speaker 1: on her fifteen minutes later, she was just dead and
- 34:40Speaker 1: he didn't try to resuscitate her, as she was quite
- 34:42Speaker 1: beyond that, he would say, and he also didn't call
- 34:45Speaker 1: an ambulance either. Now Constable Reid couldn't believe what he
- 34:49Speaker 1: was hearing, and Harold joked in bad taste that Ivy
- 34:53Speaker 1: had come to the surgery so often he had thought
- 34:56Speaker 1: about having a seat specially saved just for her with
- 34:59Speaker 1: a plaque, And that evening, Ivy's daughter Carol went to
- 35:02Speaker 1: see Harold and he gave her another version, and this
- 35:06Speaker 1: time he said that he had taken Ivy to the
- 35:08Speaker 1: treatment room because he had to see another patient in
- 35:11Speaker 1: the consulting room, no mention of an ECG, and he
- 35:14Speaker 1: said when he went back to check on her, she
- 35:16Speaker 1: had gone blue around the mouth from a massive heart
- 35:19Speaker 1: attack and he tried to revive her but failed, which
- 35:22Speaker 1: he did not tell the Constable. He said she died
- 35:24Speaker 1: of a completely different reason and he did not try
- 35:27Speaker 1: to prosuscitate her. For three people with three different stories,
- 35:30Speaker 1: and the only consistent thing was that Ivy was deceased.
- 35:34Speaker 1: But Harold saw in the death certificate saying coronary thrombosis,
- 35:39Speaker 1: and her medical records contained almost no history of heart disease,
- 35:43Speaker 1: just one written note from nineteen ninety one saying IHD,
- 35:47Speaker 1: which is ischemic heart disease, no medication for any heart condition,
- 35:52Speaker 1: no prior complaints about her heart, and then he would
- 35:56Speaker 1: just go back to work. And then we have Muriel Grimshaw.
- 36:00Speaker 1: Now Muriel was seventy six years old and in very
- 36:05Speaker 1: good health. She would take medication for her blood pressure
- 36:08Speaker 1: and got the occasional bout of back pain, but that
- 36:11Speaker 1: was about it. She had had a flare up in
- 36:13Speaker 1: May and solved it by buying a new bed. And
- 36:16Speaker 1: she saw her daughter Anne every Sunday and Thursday, and
- 36:19Speaker 1: they talked on the phone most other dates. So on Sunday,
- 36:22Speaker 1: July thirteenth, nineteen ninety seven, they went to church together
- 36:25Speaker 1: and afterwards they sat at Muriel's house with a cup
- 36:28Speaker 1: of coffee and made plans to have lunch on Wednesday.
- 36:31Speaker 1: And Muriel was well and she was in great spirits.
- 36:35Speaker 1: And every Tuesday Muriel went shopping with her friend, Barbara Ryan,
- 36:38Speaker 1: and on the morning of July fifteenth, Barbara would knock
- 36:41Speaker 1: on her door, but there was nothing, no movement inside.
- 36:44Speaker 1: Barbara contacted Anne and they let themselves in together. Muriel
- 36:49Speaker 1: was on top of the bed, still in her clothes
- 36:52Speaker 1: she had worn that day, and the television was playing
- 36:55Speaker 1: to no one, and the curtains were just left open.
- 36:58Speaker 1: Muriel always unplugged the television before bed, and she never
- 37:02Speaker 1: left it running. And Anne called Harold and he came
- 37:05Speaker 1: in and glanced at Muriel and stepped back, and he
- 37:07Speaker 1: would not even put a hand on her. And he
- 37:10Speaker 1: would place the time of death at about five thirty
- 37:13Speaker 1: the evening before, and he told them it was peaceful
- 37:16Speaker 1: and there was no need to involve the coroner, and
- 37:19Speaker 1: he didn't say what had killed her. And he later
- 37:22Speaker 1: signed the death certificate saying cause of death cerebrovascular accident,
- 37:27Speaker 1: with hypertension as the underlying condition, and he wrote that
- 37:30Speaker 1: he last saw Muriel alive on July second, but there
- 37:34Speaker 1: was no record of any consultation on July second, and
- 37:37Speaker 1: Anne said her mother hadn't seen Harold since May, but
- 37:41Speaker 1: Harold's computer told a different story, and on July fourteenth,
- 37:45Speaker 1: at two six in the afternoon, an entry appeared in
- 37:48Speaker 1: Muriel's records, and it said only that he saw the
- 37:51Speaker 1: patient in her own home, and Harold claimed that he
- 37:54Speaker 1: had stopped there around one o'clock and found her having
- 37:57Speaker 1: a cup of tea. Her back was fine, routine check
- 38:00Speaker 1: and nothing more. But no one had asked him to come,
- 38:03Speaker 1: and Muriel hadn't called the surgery at all, and she
- 38:06Speaker 1: hadn't requested a visit. Harold just simply showed up at
- 38:09Speaker 1: the home of a healthy seventy six year old woman
- 38:12Speaker 1: in the middle of a Monday afternoon, and by Tuesday
- 38:15Speaker 1: morning she was dead. And then there was Mary Quinn,
- 38:19Speaker 1: who was sixty seven years old, and she was divorced
- 38:22Speaker 1: and she lived alone and hide and her only son,
- 38:24Speaker 1: John worked in Japan, but they talked often and he
- 38:27Speaker 1: kept close tabs on her. And Mary had a condition
- 38:30Speaker 1: called systemic slerosis which affected her skin, her esophagus and
- 38:35Speaker 1: small blood vessels in her fingers and toes, and she
- 38:38Speaker 1: took medication for her blood pressure, but she was managing
- 38:41Speaker 1: and her friend saw her regularly and she got on
- 38:44Speaker 1: with her life. But on the morning of November twenty fourth,
- 38:46Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, Mary attended a funeral in Hyde, and
- 38:50Speaker 1: friends who saw her said she looked fine, and at
- 38:53Speaker 1: around two thirty in the afternoon, she picked up the
- 38:55Speaker 1: phone and called John and Japan and they chatted and
- 38:58Speaker 1: he heard nothing in her voice that really worried him.
- 39:01Speaker 1: But that phone call to Japan was the last anyone
- 39:04Speaker 1: heard of Mary Quinn and Harold told people that Mary
- 39:07Speaker 1: had called the surgery at around five forty five that evening,
- 39:10Speaker 1: reporting weakness down her left side, and he told her
- 39:14Speaker 1: to leave the door unlocked and he would just let
- 39:16Speaker 1: himself in, and Harold allegedly arrived at the house at
- 39:19Speaker 1: around six fifteen after fighting through rush hour traffic, and
- 39:23Speaker 1: he let himself in and found Mary on the kitchen
- 39:25Speaker 1: floor almost dead, so he would check for a pulse
- 39:29Speaker 1: and tested her reflexes, and he said she was deeply
- 39:32Speaker 1: unconscious and had a severe stroke, and he decided not
- 39:36Speaker 1: to resuscitate her because if he brought her back, she
- 39:39Speaker 1: would be brain damaged beyond repair. So he waited a
- 39:43Speaker 1: couple of minutes and she didn't move, so he didn't
- 39:47Speaker 1: call an ambulance, and at six point thirty two he
- 39:49Speaker 1: contacted Marie's friend Ellen Hanratty, listed as her emergency contact,
- 39:54Speaker 1: and he told Ellen that Marie had phoned the surgery
- 39:57Speaker 1: saying she was having a stroke and was paralyzed down
- 40:00Speaker 1: one side, and he had rushed over, but by the
- 40:03Speaker 1: time he got there, she was breathing her last and
- 40:06Speaker 1: he was just too late. And he told John and
- 40:08Speaker 1: Marie's friend Cecilia Adshead the same thing for once, and
- 40:13Speaker 1: Harold signed the death certificate. Cause of death cerebro vascular
- 40:17Speaker 1: accident twenty minutes duration and underlying causes were anterioslerosis and hypertension,
- 40:25Speaker 1: and the medical record showed a single entry from nineteen
- 40:27Speaker 1: ninety two mentioning arterioslerosis, and there was no other reference
- 40:32Speaker 1: to it anywhere in her records. And then there's Kathleen Weggstaff.
- 40:37Speaker 1: So Laura, Kathleen Weggstaff was eighty one years old, and
- 40:41Speaker 1: she went by Kathleen, and she was in good health.
- 40:44Speaker 1: She lived in a flat and Hide, and she still
- 40:46Speaker 1: did her own shopping, and she thought highly of her doctor.
- 40:50Speaker 1: And on the morning of December ninth, nineteen ninety seven,
- 40:52Speaker 1: Kathleen went into Hide to shop and it was a
- 40:54Speaker 1: normal day. She felt fine, not around one forty five
- 40:58Speaker 1: in the afternoon. Harold left the surgery without telling anyone
- 41:01Speaker 1: where he was going, and a neighbor watched from across
- 41:03Speaker 1: the way as Kathleen opened the door for him, and
- 41:06Speaker 1: it was somewhere between two and three in the afternoon
- 41:08Speaker 1: at this point, but Kathleen wasn't expecting him, but she
- 41:11Speaker 1: seemed happy he was there, and another neighbor saw his
- 41:14Speaker 1: car in the park, and twenty to thirty minutes later
- 41:17Speaker 1: they would see him again, and then Harold knocked on
- 41:20Speaker 1: the neighbor's door, telling them Kathleen had died, and he
- 41:24Speaker 1: said he would let the family know and left. And
- 41:27Speaker 1: he called the wrong person first and told Kathleen's daughter
- 41:30Speaker 1: in law that her mother had died, but it wasn't
- 41:33Speaker 1: her mother, it was her mother in law, and he
- 41:36Speaker 1: only realized the mistake when his receptionist corrected him. And
- 41:40Speaker 1: Kathleen's son Peter, went to the flat and found his
- 41:42Speaker 1: mother in her chair and she was tilted to one
- 41:45Speaker 1: side and there seemed to be some vomit on her,
- 41:48Speaker 1: and Harold told Peter that Kathleen had called the surgery
- 41:52Speaker 1: after a visit citing chest pain, and he had just
- 41:54Speaker 1: been close by and came straight over, and he said
- 41:57Speaker 1: when he arrived she just looked ill, grey, sweating blew
- 42:01Speaker 1: around the mouth, and he said he walked her up
- 42:03Speaker 1: to the flat and got her sitting down, and he
- 42:06Speaker 1: said her pulse was thready, so he called an ambulance
- 42:10Speaker 1: and then he went to get his bag from the car,
- 42:13Speaker 1: and when he came back she was dead. So again
- 42:16Speaker 1: he called off the ambulance. And he told Peter it
- 42:20Speaker 1: was a heart attack, quick with no suffering heart disease
- 42:23Speaker 1: that could carry you off without warning. And Peter was shocked.
- 42:28Speaker 1: He had had no idea his mother had heart problems.
- 42:31Speaker 1: But Harold signed the death certificate caused a death coronary
- 42:35Speaker 1: thrombosis on set thirty minutes before death. Underlying conditions ischemic
- 42:40Speaker 1: heart disease of eight to ten years and our medical
- 42:44Speaker 1: records showed no sign of heart disease though no medication
- 42:48Speaker 1: for a heart condition, and two ratings of raised blood
- 42:51Speaker 1: pressure but nothing beyond that. So it was extremely odd.
- 42:55Speaker 1: And the entry describing the death was five words long
- 42:58Speaker 1: call arrive, collapse, died time and on the cremation form
- 43:03Speaker 1: Harold wrote that a neighbor was present at the death,
- 43:06Speaker 1: but no neighbor was present, and then there was Bianca Palmfret,
- 43:11Speaker 1: and Bianca Pomfret was forty nine years old, young, but
- 43:16Speaker 1: she was divorced. She lived alone and was under the
- 43:19Speaker 1: care of consultant psychiatrist, doctor Alan Tate, and she had
- 43:23Speaker 1: a community mental health support worker who checked on her regularly.
- 43:27Speaker 1: And in the days before her death, friends noticed she
- 43:30Speaker 1: had a congested cough and she was expecting a visit
- 43:33Speaker 1: from the doctor. So in the morning of December tenth,
- 43:35Speaker 1: nineteen ninety seven, her neighbor Paul Graham, saw her looking
- 43:39Speaker 1: out of her lounge window and she was up. She
- 43:41Speaker 1: was awake, and she was going about her day. And
- 43:44Speaker 1: at some point Harold visited and he said Bianca had
- 43:48Speaker 1: called the surgery that morning to say she was unwell
- 43:50Speaker 1: and had chest pains, and he said she had episodes
- 43:53Speaker 1: like this before, going back months and he said it
- 43:56Speaker 1: sounded like angina and offered her medication for it, but
- 44:00Speaker 1: she refused because she was taking too many tablets already,
- 44:04Speaker 1: and he told her she should just see a cardiologist,
- 44:06Speaker 1: but she turned that down too, and he advised her
- 44:09Speaker 1: to book an appointment for an ECG and then left,
- 44:12Speaker 1: and she came to the door to wave him off,
- 44:14Speaker 1: he said, And at around five o'clock that afternoon, Susan Adshead,
- 44:19Speaker 1: Bianca's mental health support worker, arrived for a visit and
- 44:23Speaker 1: she knocked but there was no answer, and she looked
- 44:26Speaker 1: through the window and saw Bianca was on the sofa.
- 44:28Speaker 1: And when Bianca's son William arrived, his mother was deceased,
- 44:32Speaker 1: and she was dressed for the day, and her body
- 44:35Speaker 1: was settled into the cushions like she had just drifted
- 44:37Speaker 1: off in her sleep, and a cup of coffee sat
- 44:39Speaker 1: next to her, half drunk, and a cigarette had burned
- 44:42Speaker 1: itself out in the astray, and William called an ambulance
- 44:45Speaker 1: and the paramedics called Harold, and Harold arrived and told
- 44:49Speaker 1: William he had visited Bianca earlier that day for her
- 44:52Speaker 1: chest pains. And he told William and his wife that
- 44:55Speaker 1: Bianca had been suffering from angina for about ten months,
- 45:00Speaker 1: and they were stunted. They had no idea, and Harold
- 45:03Speaker 1: said her depression, her medication, and her smoking all played
- 45:07Speaker 1: a part. And then Harold went back to the surgery
- 45:10Speaker 1: and sat down at his computer, and he made several
- 45:13Speaker 1: entries in Bianca's medical records. One was for the visit
- 45:16Speaker 1: that day and the others were backdated, spread across the
- 45:19Speaker 1: previous nine months, and they described episodes of chest pain
- 45:23Speaker 1: that were never reported in blood pressure readings. He could
- 45:26Speaker 1: not have possibly remembered, and notes like seems better designed
- 45:30Speaker 1: to read as though they had been written at the time.
- 45:33Speaker 1: And the next day Harold called doctor Tate, Bianca psychiatrist,
- 45:37Speaker 1: and doctor Tate wrote down what Harold told him, and
- 45:40Speaker 1: it was again a completely different story. And this time
- 45:44Speaker 1: Harold said he saw Bianca on December eighth chest pains,
- 45:48Speaker 1: possibly in China, and he arranged an ECG, but the
- 45:51Speaker 1: results weren't significant, and he checked on her the following
- 45:54Speaker 1: day and she seemed fine, and on the tenth he
- 45:57Speaker 1: found her collapsed with a thready pulse. She went into
- 46:01Speaker 1: cardiac arrest and he resuscitated her and he used a defibrillator.
- 46:05Speaker 1: She would die anyway. None of that was what he
- 46:08Speaker 1: told William, but Harold signed the death certificate cause a
- 46:11Speaker 1: death coronary thrombosis with an underlying condition of ischemic heart disease.
- 46:17Speaker 1: And next there was Nora Nuddele. Nora was sixty four
- 46:21Speaker 1: years old and she lived with her son Anthony, but
- 46:24Speaker 1: was still independent, catching the bus and to hide most
- 46:27Speaker 1: days to run errands and see friends. And her medical
- 46:29Speaker 1: history was complicated though, because a rheumatic fever earlier in
- 46:33Speaker 1: life had left her prone to heart valve problems, and
- 46:36Speaker 1: there was references to her disease in her records, But
- 46:39Speaker 1: in spite of all of it, she lived her life.
- 46:41Speaker 1: But she would pick up a cough, and on the
- 46:43Speaker 1: morning of January twenty sixth, nineteen ninety eight, she went
- 46:46Speaker 1: into the surgery and Harold gave her cough medicine and
- 46:49Speaker 1: told her to rest, and friends who ran into her
- 46:52Speaker 1: said she seemed like her usual self. And Anthony got
- 46:55Speaker 1: home from work at two and headed back out just
- 46:58Speaker 1: before three to tend to his ponies, But about forty
- 47:01Speaker 1: minutes later he returned to find Harold's car outside and
- 47:05Speaker 1: Harold walking out of the front door, and Harold told
- 47:08Speaker 1: him his mother wasn't well and that he had called
- 47:10Speaker 1: an ambulance, but he hadn't, and Anthony ran inside and
- 47:14Speaker 1: his mother was on her chair, looking like she was sleeping,
- 47:17Speaker 1: and Harold came in behind him, pressed two fingers to
- 47:20Speaker 1: her throat, pulled back one eyelid and said she's gone.
- 47:24Speaker 1: And he told Anthony he had just been close by
- 47:26Speaker 1: when a call came in asking him to check on her,
- 47:29Speaker 1: But that was not true. No one had called Harold.
- 47:32Speaker 1: He had just come on his own, and he then
- 47:34Speaker 1: picked up the phone and pretended to cancel an ambulance
- 47:37Speaker 1: that was never coming. It's left ventricle failure, he would
- 47:40Speaker 1: tell Anthony. And when the heart goes like that, you
- 47:43Speaker 1: just black out twenty minutes and it's over, and there's
- 47:46Speaker 1: nothing the paramedics could have done. And Harold signed the
- 47:49Speaker 1: death certificate cause a death left ventricular failure fifteen minutes,
- 47:53Speaker 1: duration underlying cause congestive heart failure three years, and on
- 47:58Speaker 1: the cremation form he wrote that her son was present
- 48:01Speaker 1: when she died, but as we know, he was not.
- 48:04Speaker 1: And then there was Pamela Heillier. Now Pamela was a
- 48:07Speaker 1: sixty eight year old widow who walked her dog every
- 48:10Speaker 1: morning and managed her own life without help. And she
- 48:13Speaker 1: took medication for high blood pressure, but was otherwise active
- 48:16Speaker 1: and healthy. Recently, hurt knee had become painful when she drove,
- 48:20Speaker 1: so on the morning of February ninth, nineteen ninety eight,
- 48:23Speaker 1: she called the surgery and the receptionist wrote down one
- 48:25Speaker 1: thing painful knee and her daughter, Jacqueline, spent the morning
- 48:29Speaker 1: with her, and when she left just before lunch, her
- 48:32Speaker 1: mother was fine, and at one o seven they spoke
- 48:35Speaker 1: on the phone and everything was normal, and then Harold
- 48:38Speaker 1: visited shortly after, and by two o'clock Jacqueline was getting
- 48:41Speaker 1: no answer, so a neighbor went in to check and
- 48:44Speaker 1: found Pamela on the bedroom floor, face up, not moving,
- 48:48Speaker 1: and her account papers were on the table and her
- 48:51Speaker 1: lunch was sitting untouched in the microwave. And when Harold arrived,
- 48:55Speaker 1: a paramedic told him the police would be notified given
- 48:58Speaker 1: it was a sudden death at home, and Harold said
- 49:01Speaker 1: that wouldn't be necessary. She had simply just had a stroke,
- 49:04Speaker 1: and when Jacqueline's husband asked about a post mortem, Harold
- 49:08Speaker 1: shut it down, and he could tell from how she
- 49:11Speaker 1: was lying. He allegedly said, let's put it down to
- 49:14Speaker 1: a stroke. Let's put it down to a stroke. You know,
- 49:17Speaker 1: he's just like openly guessing. I mean, we'll talk about
- 49:20Speaker 1: what's really happening shortly, but it's just it's disgusting. The
- 49:24Speaker 1: next day, Jacqueline and her brother Keith came to see him,
- 49:27Speaker 1: and Keith pressed on why the blood pressure medication hadn't
- 49:30Speaker 1: been increased, and Harold said you needed three raised readings
- 49:34Speaker 1: before adjusting the dose. And Keith brought up the post
- 49:37Speaker 1: mortem again, but Harold said it would be unpleasant. She
- 49:41Speaker 1: had died instantly, no pain, and Harold signed the death
- 49:44Speaker 1: certificate cause of death cerebrovascular accident, underlying cause hypertension of
- 49:49Speaker 1: six years, and then he went back to his computer.
- 49:52Speaker 1: He invented a consultation from February fifth with Pamela complaining
- 49:57Speaker 1: of a weak leg and raised blood pressure, and he
- 49:59Speaker 1: created a secon entry for the day of her death,
- 50:01Speaker 1: noting dangerously high blood pressure and advising her to increase
- 50:04Speaker 1: her medication and return on Friday. But she never had
- 50:08Speaker 1: the chance. And then there was Maureene Ward. Marine. Ward
- 50:12Speaker 1: was fifty seven years old and packing up her life.
- 50:15Speaker 1: Boxes lined the walls of her flat in Ogden Court
- 50:18Speaker 1: and Hide and she was moving to Southport and had
- 50:21Speaker 1: a Caribbean holiday booked for March first. Breast cancer was
- 50:25Speaker 1: behind her. She was not winding down, and that morning
- 50:28Speaker 1: she had helped an elderly neighbor Carrie laundry and then
- 50:31Speaker 1: headed into town to buy a new dress for her trip.
- 50:34Speaker 1: And at around three point thirty that afternoon, Harold knocked
- 50:37Speaker 1: on the ward in Christine Simpson's door and told her
- 50:40Speaker 1: Maureen was dead. He had just come from her flat.
- 50:44Speaker 1: Christine was stunted, and Harold said, well, she did have
- 50:47Speaker 1: a brain tumor, you know what. And when Christine asked
- 50:51Speaker 1: how he had gotten in, Harold said Maureen had left
- 50:53Speaker 1: the lock on the snip that he was dropping off
- 50:55Speaker 1: an appointment letter for Stepping Hill Hospital. Christine went to
- 50:59Speaker 1: the flat. Moraine was on her bed, fully clothed, eyes shut,
- 51:03Speaker 1: her body completely straight and tidy, and in the kitchen
- 51:06Speaker 1: a tin of cat food was open on the counter
- 51:08Speaker 1: with a spoon mid scoop and back of the surgery,
- 51:11Speaker 1: Harold told his receptionist Carol a different story entirely, and
- 51:15Speaker 1: he had been passing by and seen an ambulance outside.
- 51:19Speaker 1: And the next day he told staff yet another version
- 51:22Speaker 1: he had gone to deliver an appointment letter, and Carol
- 51:25Speaker 1: pointed out that wasn't what he told her yesterday, and
- 51:28Speaker 1: Harold then sat at his computer and backdated entries across
- 51:31Speaker 1: several months, and in them Maureen complained of headaches, blurred vision,
- 51:35Speaker 1: and unsteadiness, and he wrote that she had been found
- 51:38Speaker 1: on the floor of the week before, possibly fitting, and
- 51:42Speaker 1: her doctor at Stepping Hill confirmed she had never reported
- 51:45Speaker 1: any of that, and Harold signed the death certificate caused
- 51:48Speaker 1: death carcinematosis of eight weeks duration with the secondary tumor
- 51:52Speaker 1: in the brain, and on the cremation form he wrote
- 51:55Speaker 1: that the warden was present at the moment of death,
- 51:58Speaker 1: but as we know she was not. Harold was the
- 52:01Speaker 1: only one there, and next there was Winnifred Mehlar now
- 52:04Speaker 1: Melar was seventy three years old and young for it.
- 52:08Speaker 1: She volunteered at a local hospital, helped her church, and
- 52:11Speaker 1: kicked a ball around with her grandchildren in the garden,
- 52:14Speaker 1: and had a trip to the Holy Land already booked,
- 52:17Speaker 1: and she walked into Hyde most days with no trouble,
- 52:21Speaker 1: and her health was good, but she did pick up
- 52:23Speaker 1: a cold, and her daughter Sheila, had lunch with her
- 52:26Speaker 1: but didn't think she seemed seriously ill. The next morning,
- 52:29Speaker 1: May eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, Mellar called the school to
- 52:33Speaker 1: say she couldn't be in, then chatted normally with two
- 52:36Speaker 1: friends on the phone, and then walked to Hyde Market
- 52:39Speaker 1: and had a cheerful conversation with another friend there, and
- 52:41Speaker 1: at around three o'clock a neighbor called Gloria Ellis. That
- 52:44Speaker 1: is really weird. I have a cousin named Gloria Ellis.
- 52:46Speaker 1: I need to look that up if that's associated, because
- 52:48Speaker 1: they are from England. That is really weird. Anyway, watched
- 52:50Speaker 1: Harold's maroon car park outside and stay for about twenty minutes,
- 52:55Speaker 1: and after that there's nothing in the afternoon passed with
- 52:58Speaker 1: no word from Mellor, and at six point thirty that evening,
- 53:01Speaker 1: Harold knocked on Gloria's door and asked her and her
- 53:05Speaker 1: husband to let them into Meler's house. And he said
- 53:08Speaker 1: he could see through the window that something was wrong.
- 53:11Speaker 1: So they went together and Mellor was in her chair,
- 53:14Speaker 1: head tilted to one side, a cup of coffee beside her,
- 53:17Speaker 1: the shopping still bagged up in the kitchen, and she
- 53:20Speaker 1: looked like she had just fallen asleep. So Harold checked
- 53:23Speaker 1: her wrist and eyes and she was gone. And he
- 53:26Speaker 1: was sharp with Gloria when she became distressed, and he
- 53:29Speaker 1: told Mellar's daughters that their mother had suffered from auntngina
- 53:32Speaker 1: since nineteen ninety seven and had repeatedly refused treatment. And
- 53:36Speaker 1: he said she had called surgery in pain that afternoon,
- 53:39Speaker 1: that he had rushed back but couldn't get in, so
- 53:42Speaker 1: he went to the neighbors for a key, and he
- 53:44Speaker 1: asked the daughters if they agreed he should write coronary
- 53:47Speaker 1: thrombosis on the certificate, and said nothing about a post mortem.
- 53:50Speaker 1: And none of the daughters believed it at all, because
- 53:53Speaker 1: their mother told them everything. If she had a china,
- 53:56Speaker 1: they would have known. And if Harold had told her
- 53:59Speaker 1: to go to the hospital, she would have gone because
- 54:01Speaker 1: she respected Harold, and if she had been in pain
- 54:04Speaker 1: all afternoon, she would have called one of them, but
- 54:07Speaker 1: instead she had gone shopping. And they also noticed that
- 54:10Speaker 1: Meller's sleeve was rolled up and there was a bruise
- 54:13Speaker 1: on her arm. But Harold signed the death certificate cause
- 54:16Speaker 1: of death coronary thrombosis. And then there was Joan Melia. Now,
- 54:21Speaker 1: Joan was seventy three years old and healthy, though on
- 54:24Speaker 1: June eleventh, nineteen ninety eight, she was feeling tired and
- 54:27Speaker 1: a little bit under the weather, and the next morning,
- 54:29Speaker 1: her companion Derek Steele drove her to the surgery, and
- 54:33Speaker 1: Harold prescribed her an antibiotic and wrote in her records
- 54:36Speaker 1: that she had a chest infection. But when Joan came out,
- 54:39Speaker 1: she told Derek the doctor had said she had plurisy
- 54:42Speaker 1: and pneumonia, and Derek was puzzled because if she had pneumonia,
- 54:46Speaker 1: surely she would have to go to the hospital, but
- 54:49Speaker 1: Harold was her doctor, so he took her home and
- 54:51Speaker 1: left her to rest, and that afternoon he called and
- 54:54Speaker 1: got no answer. So I went to check, and Joan
- 54:57Speaker 1: was in her chair with her glasses on and a
- 55:00Speaker 1: crossword on her knee, cold to the touch, and it
- 55:03Speaker 1: was clear she had got up at some point and
- 55:05Speaker 1: went to the kitchen to make something to eat after
- 55:07Speaker 1: he had left, and Harold arrived at five fifty four,
- 55:11Speaker 1: and he glanced at Joan, said the medication hadn't had
- 55:14Speaker 1: time to work, and told Derek he would handle the
- 55:17Speaker 1: death certificate and was gone in five minutes. Cause of
- 55:21Speaker 1: death lowbore pneumonia of two to three days duration, with
- 55:26Speaker 1: emphysema as an unrelated contributor condition, and he said nothing
- 55:30Speaker 1: about a post mortem and continued on with his work
- 55:34Speaker 1: and last there was Kathleen Grundy. Kathleen was eighty one
- 55:38Speaker 1: years old and in excellent health. She volunteered at Warneth House,
- 55:42Speaker 1: worked with age concern, and had a full social life.
- 55:46Speaker 1: She showed no signs of slowing down, and Harold approached
- 55:50Speaker 1: her about a research project on the aging process and
- 55:53Speaker 1: supposedly written by Manchester University, and he had needed her
- 55:57Speaker 1: signature and a blood sample taken first thing in the morning.
- 56:01Speaker 1: So on June twenty third, she came to the surgery
- 56:03Speaker 1: for an unrelated appointment and Harold told her he would
- 56:07Speaker 1: come by at eight thirty the next morning to collect blood,
- 56:10Speaker 1: but there was no research project. In the next morning,
- 56:13Speaker 1: June twenty fourth, nineteen ninety eight, Harold arrived at Kathleen's
- 56:16Speaker 1: home and she would never show up at Warnith House
- 56:19Speaker 1: that day, and by midday two of her friends went
- 56:22Speaker 1: to check on her and the door was unlocked, and
- 56:25Speaker 1: Kathleen never left it unlocked, and they found her on
- 56:28Speaker 1: the sofa, fully dressed and cold, and Harold came to
- 56:32Speaker 1: the house a quick lookover cardiac arrest, he said. He
- 56:36Speaker 1: called the coroner's office, agreed he could issue the certificate
- 56:39Speaker 1: and wrote down old age is the cause of death,
- 56:42Speaker 1: and when two police officers arrived, Harold mentioned that he
- 56:45Speaker 1: had called on her that morning because she was unwell,
- 56:48Speaker 1: but said nothing about a blood sample or a research project,
- 56:53Speaker 1: and the officer saw nothing suspicious and left. The next day,
- 56:57Speaker 1: he told Kathleen's daughter Angela he had seen her for
- 57:00Speaker 1: a routine thing, and he was vague about it and
- 57:03Speaker 1: mentioned possible indigestion. Said he had arranged to collect blood
- 57:07Speaker 1: the following morning, but when he arrived, she hadn't been
- 57:10Speaker 1: dressed yet, and he handed Angela the death certificate, citing
- 57:13Speaker 1: old age, and she took it. So fifteen women, the
- 57:17Speaker 1: same doctor, same paperwork, with the same outcome, and everyone
- 57:24Speaker 1: believed him. But what was really happening to all of
- 57:28Speaker 1: these women? See, Harold kept it simple because simple worked.
- 57:32Speaker 1: He carried diamorphine in his bag. Now. Dimorphine is pharmaceutical
- 57:37Speaker 1: grade heroine in medicine. It's used for severe pain, terminal cancer,
- 57:43Speaker 1: end of life care, and in the right dose it
- 57:46Speaker 1: quiets suffering, and in the wrong one it stops a heart.
- 57:51Speaker 1: And Harold knew the difference intimately because he had watched
- 57:54Speaker 1: it work on his mother when he was seventeen. Years old,
- 57:58Speaker 1: and he had prescribed it for dying patients and watched
- 58:01Speaker 1: it ease them out, and at some point he decided
- 58:04Speaker 1: to use it on people who were not dying at all,
- 58:07Speaker 1: and the mechanics were unremarkable. He knocked on the door.
- 58:10Speaker 1: He was welcomed in because he was the doctor, and
- 58:14Speaker 1: the doctor was always welcome, and he sat with the
- 58:16Speaker 1: patient for a short while, long enough for everything to
- 58:19Speaker 1: seem routine, and then he reached into his bag and
- 58:22Speaker 1: the injection site was usually the arm. Dimorphine hits the
- 58:26Speaker 1: bloodstream fast, and within seconds the drug crosses into the brain,
- 58:31Speaker 1: and consciousness dims and breathing slows and the body starts
- 58:35Speaker 1: to go still. And most of his victims would not
- 58:38Speaker 1: have known what was happening. And there's no dramatic collapse,
- 58:42Speaker 1: no struggle, no cry for help. A person who was
- 58:45Speaker 1: talking one moment would just simply stop and their eyes
- 58:48Speaker 1: would close, and their body would settle into whatever position
- 58:51Speaker 1: the chair gave them. And this is what witnesses kept
- 58:55Speaker 1: describing again and again, without knowing what they were seeing.
- 58:59Speaker 1: She looked like he had nodded off, he said, she
- 59:03Speaker 1: just went to sleep, and she was sitting exactly the
- 59:06Speaker 1: same way she had been a few minutes before. That
- 59:09Speaker 1: was the drug, and that was Harold's method. He would
- 59:13Speaker 1: wait a short time, check for a pulse he already
- 59:15Speaker 1: knew was gone, perhaps check the eyes. Then he would
- 59:19Speaker 1: put on the expression of a doctor who had just
- 59:21Speaker 1: lost a patient. To begin the performance. He would explain
- 59:24Speaker 1: things to whoever was nearby, her heart, her blood pressure,
- 59:28Speaker 1: her arteries. He had seen this coming, there was nothing
- 59:31Speaker 1: anyone could have done. He would say, the same lies,
- 59:34Speaker 1: with the same calm authority that made everyone in hide
- 59:37Speaker 1: trust him in the first place, And then he would
- 59:39Speaker 1: write the death certificate coronary thrombosis, cerebrovascular accident, left ventricle failure,
- 59:46Speaker 1: old age, because he chose didn't need to be consistent,
- 59:50Speaker 1: It only needed to sound plausible for someone of that age,
- 59:54Speaker 1: with that history. And Harold knew his patient's histories because
- 59:58Speaker 1: he wrote them and sometimes made them up. And still
- 1:00:01Speaker 1: somehow no one noticed. And Harold killed for twenty three
- 1:00:07Speaker 1: years in the open, wearing a white coat, carrying a
- 1:00:11Speaker 1: black bag and knocking on front doors like a vacuum salesman,
- 1:00:16Speaker 1: and every single person who opened that door trusted him,
- 1:00:20Speaker 1: and unfortunately the victim count was far far more than
- 1:00:25Speaker 1: fifteen women. But the first person to say something out
- 1:00:28Speaker 1: loud wasn't a police officer or hospital administrator or anyone
- 1:00:33Speaker 1: inside the medical establishment. It was a woman working at
- 1:00:36Speaker 1: a funeral home. Frank Massey and Son was a family
- 1:00:40Speaker 1: run funeral director's firm in Hyde, and Deborah Massey was
- 1:00:44Speaker 1: part of the operation. She handled the dead for a
- 1:00:47Speaker 1: living and so she knew what a normal caseload looked like.
- 1:00:51Speaker 1: And she knew that what was coming through her doors
- 1:00:54Speaker 1: did not look normal because she kept seeing the same thing.
- 1:00:58Speaker 1: Shipman's patience were showing up far too often, and most
- 1:01:02Speaker 1: of them were women, and most had died alone in
- 1:01:05Speaker 1: their homes, found sitting upright in a chair or something similar,
- 1:01:09Speaker 1: or in their lying down on their bed. And Alan Massey,
- 1:01:11Speaker 1: Debor's father, who had been running funerals for years, saw
- 1:01:14Speaker 1: it too. The bodies were always dressed, always positioned in
- 1:01:18Speaker 1: a chair, and over and over again. Harold had either
- 1:01:21Speaker 1: been the last one through the door or the one
- 1:01:23Speaker 1: who reported the death. But the Massies didn't have the
- 1:01:26Speaker 1: authority to investigate a doctor, but they knew someone who
- 1:01:29Speaker 1: might listen. So Deborah brought her concerns to doctor Linda Reynolds,
- 1:01:33Speaker 1: a general practitioner at the Brook Surgery and Hide, and
- 1:01:36Speaker 1: doctor Reynolds listened and began to look at the numbers herself,
- 1:01:40Speaker 1: and on March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety eight, doctor Reynolds
- 1:01:43Speaker 1: contacted John Pollard, the South Manchester Coroner, and she told
- 1:01:47Speaker 1: him what the funeral directors had told her and what
- 1:01:50Speaker 1: she herself had observed. Too. Many of Harold's patients were
- 1:01:54Speaker 1: dying and the pattern pointed to elderly women living on
- 1:01:58Speaker 1: their own turning up dead in their own homes, and
- 1:02:01Speaker 1: Harold was always somewhere at the edges. Pollard passed it
- 1:02:05Speaker 1: along to Greater Manchester Police where it ended up with
- 1:02:08Speaker 1: Detective Inspector David Smith working out of Stallybridge Criminal Investigation
- 1:02:12Speaker 1: Department or CID, and the police looked into it and
- 1:02:16Speaker 1: they examined the death of nineteen of Harold's patients, and
- 1:02:20Speaker 1: they pulled the death statistics from other GP practices locally
- 1:02:24Speaker 1: and nationally and measured Harold's against them. And doctor Allan Banks,
- 1:02:28Speaker 1: medical advisor to the West Pennine Health Authority, was asked
- 1:02:32Speaker 1: to go through the clinical files and banks findings were cautious.
- 1:02:37Speaker 1: The numbers were much higher than they should have been.
- 1:02:40Speaker 1: But on paper, every death lined up with what Harold
- 1:02:43Speaker 1: had written on the certificate. Nothing in the files screamed murder.
- 1:02:47Speaker 1: And that was the problem, because the records they were
- 1:02:50Speaker 1: receiving were Harold's records. The notes they were reading were
- 1:02:54Speaker 1: the notes of Harold that he had written in the
- 1:02:57Speaker 1: medical histories they were checking were the history's hair Old
- 1:03:00Speaker 1: had created. So they were asking the Fox to explain
- 1:03:03Speaker 1: what had happened in the Henhouse, essentially, and the Fox
- 1:03:06Speaker 1: had written a very convincing account essentially, if that makes sense.
- 1:03:10Speaker 1: And at this point not a single body had been
- 1:03:12Speaker 1: pulled from the ground. No independent doctor was brought in
- 1:03:15Speaker 1: to give a second opinion, and the families of the
- 1:03:18Speaker 1: dead were never contacted, and Harold's controlled drug records went unexamined,
- 1:03:22Speaker 1: and nobody asked where he was getting his diamorphine or
- 1:03:26Speaker 1: how much of it he had, And unfortunately for the investigation,
- 1:03:30Speaker 1: by April nineteen ninety eight, the whole thing ended just
- 1:03:34Speaker 1: one month of looking and the police just walked away,
- 1:03:37Speaker 1: not enough evidence. Case closed, and doctor Linda Reynolds had
- 1:03:42Speaker 1: raised the alarm, and Deborah and Alan Massey had seen
- 1:03:45Speaker 1: what no one else was willing to see, and the
- 1:03:47Speaker 1: system had taken their concerns, weighed them against a killer's
- 1:03:51Speaker 1: own paperwork and decided back, everything's fine. They're old. Who
- 1:03:56Speaker 1: cares sick? Just absolutely sick. And whether Harold knew the
- 1:04:00Speaker 1: police had been looking at him was unclear at this point,
- 1:04:03Speaker 1: but the coroner, John Pollard had started pushing harder on
- 1:04:06Speaker 1: the death certificates Harold was filing, and if Harold picked
- 1:04:10Speaker 1: up on that at all, it made no difference. And
- 1:04:13Speaker 1: in the five months after the closed file, three women died,
- 1:04:17Speaker 1: Winifred Mellor in May eleventh, Joan Mellia on June twelfth,
- 1:04:22Speaker 1: and Kathleen Grundy on June twenty fourth, the women we
- 1:04:25Speaker 1: spoke about before. So Harold had been killing successfully for
- 1:04:28Speaker 1: twenty three years without a single serious consequence, and he
- 1:04:32Speaker 1: had simply walked into hundreds of homes, ended lives, signed certificates,
- 1:04:37Speaker 1: and walked out again. He had never been charged or
- 1:04:40Speaker 1: meaningfully investigated at this point, and he had survived the
- 1:04:44Speaker 1: one moment when someone finally looked in his direction. But
- 1:04:48Speaker 1: then he did something he had never done before. Because
- 1:04:52Speaker 1: when Kathleen died. A document landed at a solicitor's office Hamilton,
- 1:04:58Speaker 1: Wore a law firm received what appeared to be Kathleen
- 1:05:02Speaker 1: Grundy's will, but the typing was kind of sloppy and
- 1:05:05Speaker 1: the grammar was wrong, and the document handed everything she
- 1:05:09Speaker 1: owned around three hundred eighty six thousand pounds to a
- 1:05:14Speaker 1: single beneficiary, Harold Frederick Shipman, and a copy reached Kathleen's daughter,
- 1:05:20Speaker 1: Angela Woodruff. Now Angela practice law for a living, and
- 1:05:25Speaker 1: one look at the document told her everything she needed
- 1:05:28Speaker 1: to know. Something was very wrong, because her mother was
- 1:05:31Speaker 1: precise about everything. A will this careless certainly couldn't have
- 1:05:37Speaker 1: come from her hand, and the idea that she would
- 1:05:39Speaker 1: leave her entire fortune to her GP was absurd, and
- 1:05:44Speaker 1: the whole thing was wrong top to bottom, And fraud
- 1:05:48Speaker 1: wasn't the worst of what Angela suspected. She believed Harold
- 1:05:51Speaker 1: Shipman may have murdered her mother to get his hands
- 1:05:54Speaker 1: on the money, and about a month after her mother's
- 1:05:57Speaker 1: funeral in late July nineteen ninety eight, Juela walked into
- 1:06:00Speaker 1: the police station. She handed the will to Greater Manchester
- 1:06:03Speaker 1: Police and told them what she believed had happened, and
- 1:06:07Speaker 1: this time nobody closed the file. Detective Superintendent Bernard Apostles
- 1:06:12Speaker 1: took charge of the investigation because he now had something
- 1:06:15Speaker 1: the first inquiry had never had a forged document with
- 1:06:19Speaker 1: a dead woman's name on it, and a suspect who
- 1:06:22Speaker 1: stood to profit. Guy got greedy, and on August first,
- 1:06:25Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, the exhumation of Kathleen Grundy's body was ordered,
- 1:06:30Speaker 1: and this was where one decision changed everything, because Kathleen
- 1:06:34Speaker 1: had been cremated like the others, which meant her body
- 1:06:37Speaker 1: was still there, holding evidence that Harold had had no
- 1:06:41Speaker 1: way to reach, and the lab results came back with
- 1:06:44Speaker 1: a definitive answer. Kathleen Grundy's body contained lethal levels of
- 1:06:48Speaker 1: diamorphine pharmaceutical heroine. No doctor had ever prescribed it to her,
- 1:06:54Speaker 1: and she had never taken it on her own, so
- 1:06:56Speaker 1: there was no innocent explanation for why it was even
- 1:06:59Speaker 1: in her tissue. Yet it was clearly there, and when
- 1:07:02Speaker 1: forensic analysts examined the will, they matched it to a
- 1:07:05Speaker 1: typewriter sitting inside Harold's surgery on Market Street, and his
- 1:07:09Speaker 1: fingerprints were lifted from the paper itself. So in all
- 1:07:13Speaker 1: his years of killing. Harold had never once tried to
- 1:07:16Speaker 1: take money from a victim. Every death before this one
- 1:07:19Speaker 1: had been committed and walked away from with no financial
- 1:07:21Speaker 1: connection or trail leading back to him. But the will
- 1:07:24Speaker 1: changed that he got sloppy and dumb and greedy and
- 1:07:29Speaker 1: stupid because that's what he is. He's scumm And with
- 1:07:33Speaker 1: the exhumation of Kathleen Grundy confirming lethal levels of dimorphine
- 1:07:37Speaker 1: in her body, Detective Superintendent Bernard pulled together a team
- 1:07:41Speaker 1: of officers assigned to the case around the clock, and
- 1:07:44Speaker 1: the question was no longer whether Kathleen Grundy had been murdered,
- 1:07:47Speaker 1: The question was how many others had been too. So
- 1:07:51Speaker 1: Apostles ordered more exhumations, and over the course of the
- 1:07:54Speaker 1: criminal investigation, twelve of Harold's former patients were pulled from
- 1:07:58Speaker 1: the ground, and one by one the bodies went to
- 1:08:00Speaker 1: the lab, and for nine of them the results came
- 1:08:03Speaker 1: back the same. When dimorphine breaks down inside the body,
- 1:08:07Speaker 1: it leaves behind morphine, and that morphine does not disappear
- 1:08:11Speaker 1: after someone is buried, and body after body showed morphine
- 1:08:14Speaker 1: levels through the roof high enough to kill. So these
- 1:08:18Speaker 1: were women who had had no reason to have the
- 1:08:21Speaker 1: drug in their system, and it had not been prescribed
- 1:08:23Speaker 1: to them and they were not using it, and yet
- 1:08:26Speaker 1: it was there, soaked into the remains like a signature.
- 1:08:29Speaker 1: And at the same time, investigators began pulling apart Harold's
- 1:08:32Speaker 1: patient records because he had kept both handwritten notes and
- 1:08:36Speaker 1: computerized system at the Market Street practice, and the computer
- 1:08:40Speaker 1: records were damning because again, poor old man didn't know
- 1:08:44Speaker 1: how to work in computer, didn't know how computers worked.
- 1:08:47Speaker 1: Poor guy, just kidding up, this guy. And they found
- 1:08:50Speaker 1: that Harold had been going back into patient files and
- 1:08:52Speaker 1: changing them after the fact, because he had been adding
- 1:08:55Speaker 1: entries that did not exist at the time of treatment,
- 1:08:58Speaker 1: fabricating symptoms, and building fake paper trails so that when
- 1:09:02Speaker 1: a healthy patient dropped dead, the records made it look
- 1:09:04Speaker 1: like it had been coming for months, and a patient
- 1:09:08Speaker 1: who was healthy on Monday was given a backdated record
- 1:09:11Speaker 1: showing chest pains and heart trouble, as though the writing
- 1:09:14Speaker 1: had already been there. But again, Harold didn't understand how
- 1:09:17Speaker 1: computers work. Well mop the system logged metadata for every entry, edition,
- 1:09:23Speaker 1: and edit, and the machine stamped the real date and
- 1:09:27Speaker 1: time on everything, so regardless of Harold's efforts, technology remembered
- 1:09:32Speaker 1: what he tried to erase, and the investigation also dug
- 1:09:35Speaker 1: into the drug locks and every controlled substance record at
- 1:09:38Speaker 1: Harold's surgery and pharmacies around Hyde was pulled and examined,
- 1:09:43Speaker 1: discovering a stockpile built in plain sight, and he wrote
- 1:09:46Speaker 1: prescriptions for dying cancer patients massive amounts of diamorphine, far
- 1:09:51Speaker 1: more than any person could ever use, and when those
- 1:09:54Speaker 1: patients passed away, whatever was left over went straight into
- 1:09:57Speaker 1: Harold's bag, And other times he put a patient's name
- 1:10:00Speaker 1: on a prescription, even though that person never saw a
- 1:10:02Speaker 1: single dose, and the excess again went straight into his
- 1:10:05Speaker 1: bag and was carried right into the homes of the
- 1:10:08Speaker 1: women who trusted him. So this emerging pattern was undeniable.
- 1:10:12Speaker 1: The dead were overwhelmingly older women who lived by themselves,
- 1:10:16Speaker 1: and Harold was the last person through each of their doors,
- 1:10:20Speaker 1: and he was the last one there when they stopped breathing.
- 1:10:23Speaker 1: Not to mention, he signed the death certificates and ordered
- 1:10:27Speaker 1: no post mortem for any of them, and would often
- 1:10:29Speaker 1: recommend cremation, and he would move to the next name
- 1:10:33Speaker 1: on his list. So the investigation then expanded at a
- 1:10:36Speaker 1: pace no one had anticipated, because once the first toxicology
- 1:10:40Speaker 1: reports came back, the case blew wide open and dozens
- 1:10:44Speaker 1: of deaths landed on the detective's deaths in a matter
- 1:10:47Speaker 1: of weeks, and the names started to pile up, and
- 1:10:50Speaker 1: what had started with one suspicious will was turning into
- 1:10:53Speaker 1: something British policing had rarely seen. And in Hyde, the
- 1:10:57Speaker 1: mood turned as the investigation progressed and his patients pushed back,
- 1:11:01Speaker 1: unable to accept the allegations they were hearing. Not their doctor.
- 1:11:05Speaker 1: He cared for them, he sat with them, he was kind,
- 1:11:08Speaker 1: and some even went on record for him, standing up
- 1:11:10Speaker 1: in front of cameras to say this just could not
- 1:11:13Speaker 1: be true. But his more bodies were exhumed and more
- 1:11:15Speaker 1: names surfaced. That loyalty began to crack, and family members
- 1:11:20Speaker 1: started doing the math, and the doctor who had comforted
- 1:11:23Speaker 1: them after their loved ones had passed might have been
- 1:11:26Speaker 1: the reason they were no longer there at all. The
- 1:11:28Speaker 1: horror was right there inside their own homes, sitting in
- 1:11:31Speaker 1: the chair where their loved one had been found. The
- 1:11:35Speaker 1: first time officers showed up at Market Street asking for
- 1:11:37Speaker 1: Kathleen Grundy's file, Harold handed it over without breaking a sweat.
- 1:11:42Speaker 1: He was very cooperative, almost pleasant, and he told the
- 1:11:46Speaker 1: officers that Kathleen Grundy was a drug Oh no, was
- 1:11:50Speaker 1: that in her file too, And even while under scrutiny,
- 1:11:53Speaker 1: Harold kept the surgery open. Patients came in and he
- 1:11:56Speaker 1: treated them business as usual. But he carried on working
- 1:11:59Speaker 1: as the so the walls were not closing in on him,
- 1:12:02Speaker 1: and they were closing in on him past. And he
- 1:12:04Speaker 1: also did not try to run. He didn't destroy records
- 1:12:07Speaker 1: or take any visible steps to prepare for in the
- 1:12:09Speaker 1: event he could be caught. He seemed to believe his
- 1:12:12Speaker 1: word would be enough, just as it always had been before.
- 1:12:16Speaker 1: And Primrose's wife stood by his side at every moment
- 1:12:19Speaker 1: because she wouldn't hear a word of it. Her belief
- 1:12:22Speaker 1: in his innocence was absolute and unwavering. Let's take a
- 1:12:26Speaker 1: quick pause to talk about something that is important to
- 1:12:28Speaker 1: quite literally every human being, and that is sleep. And
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- 1:13:43Speaker 1: And let's get back to the video. But on September seventh,
- 1:13:45Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight officers from Greater Manchester Police arrived at
- 1:13:50Speaker 1: Harold's door in row Cross Green, a short drive from Hyde.
- 1:13:54Speaker 1: Harold was arrested on suspicion of murder of Kathleen Grundy
- 1:13:58Speaker 1: and the forgery of her will, and at the time
- 1:14:00Speaker 1: search teams moved through both of his homes and Market street, surgery, files,
- 1:14:05Speaker 1: controlled substances, equipment, everything they could carry went into evidence bags.
- 1:14:10Speaker 1: But one item stood out, a typewriter sitting inside the house,
- 1:14:13Speaker 1: and forensic analysis confirmed it was the same machine that
- 1:14:16Speaker 1: had typed Kathleen Grundy's fake will. And in the interview room,
- 1:14:20Speaker 1: though Harold stayed true to form when someone pushed back
- 1:14:23Speaker 1: at him, just arrogant, a f and evasive, just contemptuous,
- 1:14:29Speaker 1: and he denied everything. Every death was natural, every certificate
- 1:14:33Speaker 1: was accurate, the will was genuine, and Kathleen Grundy had
- 1:14:37Speaker 1: brought it to him herself. And the tox collegy results
- 1:14:40Speaker 1: were laid in front of him, lethal diamorphine in a
- 1:14:43Speaker 1: woman who had never used the drug, and to this
- 1:14:45Speaker 1: Harold had nothing, nothing to say, No answers had held up.
- 1:14:49Speaker 1: The detectives laid out the deaths name by name, and
- 1:14:52Speaker 1: Harold sat there just with a blank expression. It seemed
- 1:14:55Speaker 1: as though they were wasting his time, looking at the
- 1:14:58Speaker 1: officers the way he had always looked at people who
- 1:15:01Speaker 1: questioned him, just like go away, little human, I don't
- 1:15:04Speaker 1: care what you have to say, just like they were
- 1:15:07Speaker 1: beneath him. And he still repeated the same claim that
- 1:15:10Speaker 1: Kathleen Grundy was a drug here. But nothing in her
- 1:15:13Speaker 1: medical history, her personal life, or her reputation supported it.
- 1:15:16Speaker 1: It was a lie built on nothing, and Harold told
- 1:15:19Speaker 1: it with same steady confidence he had once used to
- 1:15:21Speaker 1: tell families their mothers died at natural causes. And Primrose
- 1:15:25Speaker 1: was completely shocked by the arrest, but she still remained
- 1:15:29Speaker 1: unwaveringly supportive her husband was innocent, even any suggestion otherwise
- 1:15:35Speaker 1: was absurd. But Harold was charged with the murder of
- 1:15:38Speaker 1: Kathleen Grundy and with forging her will. So Harold was
- 1:15:42Speaker 1: taken to h M Prison Manchester also called Strange Ways
- 1:15:46Speaker 1: to await trial, and it was one of the most
- 1:15:48Speaker 1: notorious prisons in England. And though he was a prisoner,
- 1:15:51Speaker 1: he was not yet convicted, but the charges against him
- 1:15:54Speaker 1: were growing, and inside Strange Ways Harold continued to carry
- 1:15:58Speaker 1: himself with calm air arrogance, and he projected the image
- 1:16:01Speaker 1: of a man who believed a mistake had been made
- 1:16:04Speaker 1: and that lesser minds were responsible for it. And he
- 1:16:06Speaker 1: showed zero remorse, and instead of distress, he radiated indignation,
- 1:16:12Speaker 1: and everyone around him heard the same thing. He didn't
- 1:16:15Speaker 1: know it. There was no moment where his certainty wavered,
- 1:16:18Speaker 1: no crack that let anything human through. And Primrose's wife
- 1:16:22Speaker 1: visited and still believed him, and she stood by her husband,
- 1:16:26Speaker 1: just as she had through every crisis since they were teenagers.
- 1:16:29Speaker 1: This was just a miscarriage of justice, and nothing she
- 1:16:32Speaker 1: heard would change that. But while Harold sat in his cell,
- 1:16:35Speaker 1: the investigation continued to expand there were more names and
- 1:16:39Speaker 1: more cases, and prosecutors settled on fifteen murder counts and
- 1:16:43Speaker 1: a single forger recharge tied to Kathleen Grundy's will. And
- 1:16:46Speaker 1: these fifteen were not the only women Harold was suspected
- 1:16:50Speaker 1: of killing, though they were just the ones prosecutors believed
- 1:16:53Speaker 1: they could prove beyond any reasonable doubt. Where bodies had
- 1:16:58Speaker 1: been buried, not cremated, where the labs found poison in
- 1:17:02Speaker 1: the remains, and the facts around each death locked together.
- 1:17:05Speaker 1: Many other suspected victims had gone into the fire, and
- 1:17:09Speaker 1: the fire left nothing to test because he ordered cremations
- 1:17:12Speaker 1: for majority of them. Hundreds hundreds of women were talking
- 1:17:18Speaker 1: about by the way. So the families waited, and more
- 1:17:21Speaker 1: than twelve months passed between Harold's arrest and the opening
- 1:17:24Speaker 1: of the trial, and some had watched their loved ones
- 1:17:27Speaker 1: pulled from the earth so a pathologist could search for
- 1:17:30Speaker 1: poison in their bones, and others sat with a new
- 1:17:32Speaker 1: and unbearable knowledge. The death they had accepted, the grief
- 1:17:36Speaker 1: they had processed, the funeral they had attended. All of
- 1:17:39Speaker 1: it had been rewritten and it felt like losing someone twice.
- 1:17:43Speaker 1: So on October fifth, nineteen ninety nine, in Preston Crown Court, Lancashire,
- 1:17:48Speaker 1: Harold stood trial, and the venue had been moved from
- 1:17:51Speaker 1: Manchester as the case was too large and too public
- 1:17:54Speaker 1: for a local jury to be considered impartial. The presiding
- 1:17:57Speaker 1: judge was mister Justice Forbes. That is the coolest name
- 1:18:01Speaker 1: for a judge I've ever heard in my life. Now.
- 1:18:03Speaker 1: The prosecution was led by Richard henriq q C. Henrik
- 1:18:06Speaker 1: laid out the case in four categories. The first was toxicology.
- 1:18:11Speaker 1: Nine of Harold's former patients had been exhumed with foul
- 1:18:14Speaker 1: play confirmed, and in body after body, lethal or dangerously
- 1:18:17Speaker 1: elevated levels of morphine had been found, as we know.
- 1:18:20Speaker 1: And the second was the computer. Harold's patients records had
- 1:18:23Speaker 1: been torn apart by forensic analysts, and the metadata told
- 1:18:26Speaker 1: a story. Harold did not know it was writing, as
- 1:18:29Speaker 1: we know, in the computer's work, so it was clear
- 1:18:32Speaker 1: he typed in stuff after the fact, like months before,
- 1:18:36Speaker 1: to make it look like how they died was made sense,
- 1:18:40Speaker 1: you know. And the third was the will. Kathleen Grundy
- 1:18:43Speaker 1: supposed last testament named Harold Frederick Shipman as the sole
- 1:18:47Speaker 1: beneficiary of her small fortune, which made no sense, and
- 1:18:51Speaker 1: it was obviously typed by him, because they had forensic
- 1:18:54Speaker 1: analysts look at the typewriter and he clearly wrote it.
- 1:18:57Speaker 1: And the fourth was the pattern itself, deaths stacking up
- 1:19:01Speaker 1: at a rate no coincidence could explain, the same method,
- 1:19:04Speaker 1: repeated over and over, the same doctor at every center,
- 1:19:07Speaker 1: at every single one. The defense was led by Nikola Davies, QC.
- 1:19:11Speaker 1: And her options were pretty limited. You know, the evidence
- 1:19:16Speaker 1: is stacking up against Harold, all right, but she changed
- 1:19:18Speaker 1: the toxicology, arguing a beery body could generate morphine naturally
- 1:19:23Speaker 1: as it decomposed. Bitch what and the crown's forensic witnesses
- 1:19:28Speaker 1: shut that down immediately, and she suggested the women may
- 1:19:32Speaker 1: have had access to opiates. Harold knew nothing about and
- 1:19:35Speaker 1: there was no evidence to support it for any of
- 1:19:37Speaker 1: the fifteen victims at all. And she challenged the computer
- 1:19:40Speaker 1: evidence as sloppy record keeping and the metadata said otherwise, though,
- 1:19:45Speaker 1: and Harold would eventually take the stand and as normally
- 1:19:48Speaker 1: arrogant demeanor kind of seemed to crack, and court adjourned
- 1:19:52Speaker 1: twice due to emotional breakdowns, and when he finally spoke,
- 1:19:57Speaker 1: his voice trembled, which he attributed to medication. And he
- 1:20:01Speaker 1: insisted every patient had died of natural causes, every altered
- 1:20:05Speaker 1: record was legitimate, and the will was genuine. And Kathleen
- 1:20:08Speaker 1: had sometimes borrowed his typewriter. Okay, whatever helps you sleep
- 1:20:11Speaker 1: at night, but but by the time he stepped down,
- 1:20:13Speaker 1: the damage was already done. The trial ran fifty seven days,
- 1:20:18Speaker 1: one of the longest murder cases in English court had
- 1:20:20Speaker 1: ever seen, and Harold sat through all of it pen
- 1:20:24Speaker 1: in hand, scribbling notes, and he appeared unmoved, and at
- 1:20:28Speaker 1: times he appeared bored, and he watched evidence of what
- 1:20:31Speaker 1: he had done to fifteen women presented in meticulous detail,
- 1:20:35Speaker 1: and reacted as though it had nothing to do with him.
- 1:20:37Speaker 1: And on January thirteenth, two thousand, the jury was sent
- 1:20:41Speaker 1: to deliberate, and on January thirty first, two thousand, the
- 1:20:44Speaker 1: jury returned a unanimous verdict guilty on all fifteen counts
- 1:20:49Speaker 1: of murder, guilty of forging the will of Kathleen Grundy,
- 1:20:53Speaker 1: and mister Justice Forbes I love that name, delivered the
- 1:20:56Speaker 1: sentence fifteen concurrent life sentences for additional years for the forgery,
- 1:21:01Speaker 1: and a recommendation that Harold Frederick Shipman never be released.
- 1:21:06Speaker 1: The judge spoke directly to him, saying, you have finally
- 1:21:10Speaker 1: been brought to justice by the verdict of this jury.
- 1:21:13Speaker 1: I have no doubt whatsoever that these are true verdicts.
- 1:21:16Speaker 1: The time has now come for me to pass sentence
- 1:21:19Speaker 1: upon you for these wicked, wicked crimes. Each of your
- 1:21:22Speaker 1: victims was your patient. You murdered each and every one
- 1:21:27Speaker 1: of your victims by a calculated and cold blooded perversion
- 1:21:30Speaker 1: of your medical skills for your own evil and wicked purposes.
- 1:21:35Speaker 1: You took advantage of and grossly their trust. You were,
- 1:21:38Speaker 1: after all, each victim's doctor. I have little doubt that
- 1:21:42Speaker 1: each of your victims smiled and thanked you as she
- 1:21:45Speaker 1: submitted to your deadly ministrations. Harold listened to this and
- 1:21:51Speaker 1: didn't even flinch. And in the gallery the families broke
- 1:21:54Speaker 1: with a sense of relief because someone had finally said
- 1:21:57Speaker 1: out loud that what was done to their mothers and
- 1:21:59Speaker 1: grandmother and wives was not natural, was not peaceful, and
- 1:22:04Speaker 1: was not God's timing. It was murder, and underneath the
- 1:22:08Speaker 1: relief there was obviously grief, and the verdict did not
- 1:22:12Speaker 1: bring anyone back, It only confirmed what was taken. And
- 1:22:16Speaker 1: the press just went wild with this, and headlines focused
- 1:22:19Speaker 1: on the deep betrayal of a trusted doctor, and the
- 1:22:22Speaker 1: outrage directed not only at Harold but at every institution
- 1:22:26Speaker 1: that had failed to stop him, because there were so
- 1:22:30Speaker 1: many failures that could have prevented this, and calls for
- 1:22:33Speaker 1: a formal public inquiry grew louder by the day, and Primrose,
- 1:22:37Speaker 1: Harold's wife, was there every day in court, sometimes with
- 1:22:41Speaker 1: their children beside her, and as he was taken away,
- 1:22:44Speaker 1: she smiled at him weakly, and she would continue to
- 1:22:47Speaker 1: maintain that Harold did not do this. You know, near
- 1:22:51Speaker 1: the start, I was like, ah, I feel bad. You know,
- 1:22:53Speaker 1: he's really manipulative and all this stuff. But like, if
- 1:22:56Speaker 1: that evidence is shown to you, there's something wrong with you.
- 1:22:59Speaker 1: You know, there's something wrong with you to not realize
- 1:23:01Speaker 1: how Hey, maybe he did do it. And the conviction
- 1:23:04Speaker 1: may have answered fifteen questions, but there were hundreds more
- 1:23:08Speaker 1: because in the wake of the trial, Secretary of State
- 1:23:10Speaker 1: for Health Alan Milburn announced a formal public inquiry into
- 1:23:14Speaker 1: the full scope of what had actually happened, established on
- 1:23:18Speaker 1: February first, two thousand and one. It was initially private,
- 1:23:21Speaker 1: but families and the press pushed back hard because what
- 1:23:25Speaker 1: Harold did and what the system failed to prevent could
- 1:23:28Speaker 1: not be examined behind closed doors. And by September two
- 1:23:31Speaker 1: thousand and one, the government listened and it became a
- 1:23:33Speaker 1: full public inquiry and the families had forced the door
- 1:23:36Speaker 1: to open, and the women appointed to lead it was
- 1:23:39Speaker 1: Dame Janet Smith and a High Court judge, and the
- 1:23:42Speaker 1: process took nearly four years and hundreds of witnesses gave
- 1:23:46Speaker 1: testimony and Janet Smith and her team combed through approximately
- 1:23:50Speaker 1: eight hundred and eighty eight death certificates bearing Harold's signature,
- 1:23:55Speaker 1: each one reviewed on its own evidence, and the first
- 1:23:58Speaker 1: report was published on July nine, eighteen, two thousand and two,
- 1:24:01Speaker 1: and its findings made the fifteen convictions look like the
- 1:24:04Speaker 1: visible tip of something enormous. There was an iceberg under
- 1:24:09Speaker 1: these fifteen victims, because there were at least two hundred
- 1:24:13Speaker 1: and fifteen patients dead at Harold's hands across a span
- 1:24:17Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy five to nineteen ninety eight, suspicion in
- 1:24:21Speaker 1: an additional forty five cases, so one hundred and seventy
- 1:24:25Speaker 1: one confirmed victims were women and forty four or men,
- 1:24:29Speaker 1: and the youngest were Peter Lewis at forty one years old,
- 1:24:32Speaker 1: killed in nineteen eighty five, and the oldest was Anne
- 1:24:35Speaker 1: Cooper at ninety three years old, killed in nineteen eighty eight.
- 1:24:39Speaker 1: And five more reports followed, and the second report examined
- 1:24:43Speaker 1: the police investigation and was blunt in its conclusion the
- 1:24:46Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight inquiry had not been good enough and
- 1:24:49Speaker 1: Harold could and should have been caught sooner. And the
- 1:24:52Speaker 1: third report turned to the NHS and the General Medical Council,
- 1:24:57Speaker 1: neither of which had caught what was happening under their
- 1:24:59Speaker 1: no And the fourth report exposed the gaping holes in
- 1:25:03Speaker 1: how controlled drugs were tracked, laying out step by step
- 1:25:06Speaker 1: how Howard had stockpiled a lethal supply of diamorphine while
- 1:25:10Speaker 1: every safeguard just stayed silent. And the fifth report pulled
- 1:25:14Speaker 1: apart the complaints system, where the answer in Harold's case
- 1:25:17Speaker 1: had always been the same nothing. Essentially, the sixth report
- 1:25:22Speaker 1: asked the question that should have been asked decades earlier,
- 1:25:25Speaker 1: when someone died outside a hospital, who made sure the
- 1:25:28Speaker 1: cause of death was real? And Janet Smith's answer was
- 1:25:32Speaker 1: to recommend scraping the coroner system entirely and replacing it
- 1:25:36Speaker 1: with an independent medical examiner who did not rely on
- 1:25:39Speaker 1: the word of a single doctor. And for hundreds of
- 1:25:43Speaker 1: families whose loved ones never made it to the courtroom,
- 1:25:46Speaker 1: the inquiry provided the closest thing to an answer they
- 1:25:49Speaker 1: would ever receive, and Harold offered nothing during this He
- 1:25:53Speaker 1: just sat in a cell and maintained the same silence
- 1:25:55Speaker 1: he had kept since the verdict. Now after sentencing, Harold
- 1:25:59Speaker 1: was moved hm prison Franklin in County Durham, a category
- 1:26:03Speaker 1: a facility nicknamed quote unquote Monster Mansion for the caliber
- 1:26:08Speaker 1: of men at housed, and in June of two thousand
- 1:26:10Speaker 1: and two, a whole life tariff was formally confirmed and
- 1:26:13Speaker 1: Harold would never be a free man again. But inside
- 1:26:16Speaker 1: he still found a way to play doctor, and other
- 1:26:19Speaker 1: inmates came to him with their aches and questions, and
- 1:26:22Speaker 1: he obliged, and prison officers saw the same man his
- 1:26:26Speaker 1: colleagues in Hide had seen, cunning and distant, still carrying
- 1:26:30Speaker 1: himself like the smartest person in the room. And his wife,
- 1:26:33Speaker 1: Primrose visited regularly, desperately in love with a man she
- 1:26:36Speaker 1: could not reconcile with what he had done, and psychological
- 1:26:39Speaker 1: assessments described him as controlling and emotionally cold, with no
- 1:26:44Speaker 1: remorse or empathy, and a familiar word kept appearing in reports, arrogant.
- 1:26:49Speaker 1: No formal psychiatric diagnosis was ever made, but the pattern
- 1:26:53Speaker 1: experts identified from the outside was consistent narcissism in unwavering
- 1:26:59Speaker 1: belief in his superiority, a need to control those four
- 1:27:02Speaker 1: walls had done nothing to diminish, and in two thousand
- 1:27:05Speaker 1: and three Harold was transferred to HM Prison Wakefield in
- 1:27:09Speaker 1: West Yorkshire, a high security facility housing some of the
- 1:27:12Speaker 1: most dangerous criminals in the country. But on the morning
- 1:27:15Speaker 1: of January thirteenth, two thousand and four, a routine five
- 1:27:19Speaker 1: am check found Harold in his bed, seemingly sleeping. But
- 1:27:23Speaker 1: at six point twenty am the officer returned and found
- 1:27:26Speaker 1: Harold Shipman from the bars of his cell window courtesy
- 1:27:31Speaker 1: of his bed sheets, and attempts to resuscitate him had failed,
- 1:27:36Speaker 1: and Harold Frederick Shipman was pronounced dead inside the prison.
- 1:27:39Speaker 1: And he was fifty seven years old. And he left
- 1:27:42Speaker 1: no note, no letter to Primrose or to his children,
- 1:27:46Speaker 1: no confession, and no explanation. Whatever he knew he took
- 1:27:50Speaker 1: with him, and Primrose was informed that morning, and the
- 1:27:53Speaker 1: timing of his death carried an unexpected consequence because had
- 1:27:57Speaker 1: Harold reached sixty the Pincher rules would have worked differently.
- 1:28:02Speaker 1: Because he didn't, Primrose was entitled to receive a full
- 1:28:05Speaker 1: NHS pension and a tax free lump sum. So there
- 1:28:08Speaker 1: was unconfirmed reports that Primrose had begun to doubt Harold
- 1:28:12Speaker 1: in his final moments and that made his death may
- 1:28:15Speaker 1: have been partly motivated by ensuring she received that money,
- 1:28:19Speaker 1: but neither was ever verified. In an official review led
- 1:28:22Speaker 1: by Prisons and Probation ombudsman Stephen Shaw concluded that officers
- 1:28:27Speaker 1: had followed every procedure correctly and that there were no
- 1:28:30Speaker 1: warning signs, and naturally the public response was furious. And
- 1:28:34Speaker 1: Danny Mellor, whose mother Winifred Mellor, was among the fifteen,
- 1:28:38Speaker 1: spoke for many when he said, quote, I always harbored
- 1:28:42Speaker 1: the remote possibility that one day I could confront him
- 1:28:45Speaker 1: and ask him why now that's been taken away from
- 1:28:48Speaker 1: me unquote. And Alexander, the lawyer representing some two hundred
- 1:28:52Speaker 1: of Harold's victims, said her clients felt cheated, and many
- 1:28:56Speaker 1: had believed that one day he would explain what he
- 1:28:58Speaker 1: did and most importantly why, But that resolution would never come.
- 1:29:03Speaker 1: But Janet Smith would press forward, and the last two
- 1:29:06Speaker 1: reports were published after Harold was already in the ground,
- 1:29:09Speaker 1: and she acknowledged that with Harold gone, the inquiry was
- 1:29:12Speaker 1: all that remained, and it was the only official record
- 1:29:15Speaker 1: of what he had done. The man who had killed
- 1:29:17Speaker 1: more of his patients than any doctor in recorded history,
- 1:29:21Speaker 1: took the last thing he had left to the grave
- 1:29:23Speaker 1: and kept it buried with him. So with over two
- 1:29:26Speaker 1: hundred victims. No one will ever know if there were more,
- 1:29:30Speaker 1: But behind the numbers were real people, grandparents who kept
- 1:29:34Speaker 1: their gardens tidy and their front steps swept, women who
- 1:29:38Speaker 1: walked to the shop every morning because the routine gave
- 1:29:40Speaker 1: the day its shape, and they'd played games, they went
- 1:29:43Speaker 1: to church, and they doted on grandchildren who thought they
- 1:29:46Speaker 1: would be around forever. And they were people with plans,
- 1:29:49Speaker 1: and they certainly were not ready to go. And the
- 1:29:52Speaker 1: families they left behind carried something that would never fully heal.
- 1:29:56Speaker 1: Guilt first, and the questions that refused to leave. Should
- 1:30:00Speaker 1: I have asked more questions? Should I have pushed back?
- 1:30:03Speaker 1: Should I have known? And then just anger at Harold,
- 1:30:07Speaker 1: at every institution that stood by while he kept killing,
- 1:30:12Speaker 1: At the investigation that came and went in nineteen ninety
- 1:30:15Speaker 1: eight and found nothing, And underneath it all a grief
- 1:30:19Speaker 1: that was forced to happen twice. And the families organized
- 1:30:23Speaker 1: demanded answers and pushed for systemic change, and refused to
- 1:30:26Speaker 1: let the government handle any of it quietly, And they
- 1:30:30Speaker 1: fought to have the inquiry held in the open and
- 1:30:32Speaker 1: kept pressing until the laws changed and the town of
- 1:30:35Speaker 1: Hyde set aside a space in Hyde Park in two
- 1:30:37Speaker 1: thousand and five and called it the Garden of Tranquility,
- 1:30:40Speaker 1: and arose for each of the two hundred and fifteen victims.
- 1:30:43Speaker 1: But Harold Frederick Shipman never confessed, and he maintained his
- 1:30:47Speaker 1: innocence from the moment he was arrested until he was
- 1:30:50Speaker 1: found dead. And during the trial, prosecutors put forward a
- 1:30:53Speaker 1: theory that Harold got something out of holding the line
- 1:30:56Speaker 1: between life and death, that the control itself was the reward.
- 1:31:01Speaker 1: And Dame Janet Smith never arrived at a single explanation,
- 1:31:05Speaker 1: and she believed he started with patients who were already dying,
- 1:31:09Speaker 1: people whose death he could frame as mercy, and that
- 1:31:12Speaker 1: he genuinely believed he knew when the right time had come.
- 1:31:16Speaker 1: But she also found something darker than misplaced compassion, a
- 1:31:21Speaker 1: fascination with drugs, a pattern of pushing doses past safe limits,
- 1:31:26Speaker 1: and some patients may not have been murdered at all,
- 1:31:29Speaker 1: and they may have just been experiments. And over time
- 1:31:32Speaker 1: the boundaries just dissolved, and the terminally ill gave way
- 1:31:36Speaker 1: to the elderly, then to the healthy, and then there
- 1:31:40Speaker 1: was vera The image of a seventeen year old boy
- 1:31:43Speaker 1: watching a doctor push morphine into his dying mother's arm
- 1:31:46Speaker 1: and seeing the pain, just let go, And the inquiry
- 1:31:50Speaker 1: asked whether that moment had lodged something deep enough to
- 1:31:53Speaker 1: become something else entirely now after the conviction, forensic psychiatrist
- 1:31:57Speaker 1: doctor Richard Badcock evaluated Harold and found no psychosis and
- 1:32:02Speaker 1: no diagnosable psychiatric illness. What he identified instead were narcissistic
- 1:32:07Speaker 1: personality traits, superiority, and lack of empathy. And criminologist Professor
- 1:32:12Speaker 1: David Wilson proposed that every killing was the same scene
- 1:32:15Speaker 1: played again his mother's death on repeat, with Harold casting
- 1:32:20Speaker 1: himself as the man with the bag and the needle
- 1:32:23Speaker 1: who walks through the door and decides when the pain stops,
- 1:32:27Speaker 1: a loop that never resolved, run through in living room
- 1:32:30Speaker 1: after living room for twenty three years. The inquiry also
- 1:32:34Speaker 1: noted that some victims appeared to have done something to
- 1:32:37Speaker 1: get under his skin, suggesting some sort of narcissistic rage,
- 1:32:42Speaker 1: a need to reassert dominates when someone challenged him even slightly,
- 1:32:47Speaker 1: and money entered the picture exactly one time, and that's
- 1:32:51Speaker 1: what got him caught luckily. But Dame Janet Smith's six
- 1:32:54Speaker 1: reports did more than document what Harold had done. They
- 1:32:58Speaker 1: dismantled the systems that had allowed him to do it,
- 1:33:01Speaker 1: and she recommended removing the treating doctor from the death
- 1:33:04Speaker 1: certification process entirely, in replacing them with an independent medical
- 1:33:08Speaker 1: examiner like we talked about before, and Parliament passed the
- 1:33:11Speaker 1: Coroners and Justice Act in two thousand and nine, but
- 1:33:14Speaker 1: the system it created did not go live until September ninth,
- 1:33:17Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Why is that taken so long? So
- 1:33:21Speaker 1: two full decades after the verdict and more than twenty
- 1:33:25Speaker 1: years after the family started asking how it was allowed
- 1:33:28Speaker 1: to happen? And the fourth Report's findings on controlled drug
- 1:33:31Speaker 1: monitoring led directly to the Health Act two thousand and six,
- 1:33:34Speaker 1: which overhauled how those substances were regulated across the health system,
- 1:33:38Speaker 1: and the Controlled Drugs Regulations of twenty thirteen added another layer,
- 1:33:43Speaker 1: requiring healthcare organizations to appoint accountable officers and maintain running balances.
- 1:33:49Speaker 1: And the fifth reports conclusion that the GMC had failed
- 1:33:52Speaker 1: led to a structural split between the body that investigated
- 1:33:55Speaker 1: complaints and the body that decided outcomes, and starting in
- 1:33:59Speaker 1: December of twenty t t twelve, every doctor in the
- 1:34:01Speaker 1: country was required to prove competency once every five years,
- 1:34:06Speaker 1: literally bare minimum. I know stuff has to change, but
- 1:34:09Speaker 1: it's crazy that that wasn't part of it. Oh my god.
- 1:34:11Speaker 1: You have to get old people to get new driver's
- 1:34:13Speaker 1: license every some odd years, but not an old medical professional. Bah.
- 1:34:19Speaker 1: Just give them the license SEBII for the rest of
- 1:34:21Speaker 1: their lives. It'll be fine. Because before shipmen no such
- 1:34:23Speaker 1: requirement existed, and the cremation regulations of two thousand and
- 1:34:27Speaker 1: eight made it harder for a single doctor to send
- 1:34:30Speaker 1: a body to the furnace without independent scrutiny, and solo
- 1:34:33Speaker 1: GP practices were flagged as structurally dangerous and the NHS
- 1:34:38Speaker 1: began steering away from them. Every safeguard that was supposed
- 1:34:42Speaker 1: to protect patients had failed for the same reason, the
- 1:34:45Speaker 1: assumption that a doctor would act in good faith. But
- 1:34:49Speaker 1: around the world, the shipment case became a reference point
- 1:34:52Speaker 1: for what broken systems look like and what they allow.
- 1:34:55Speaker 1: The reforms are now in place, but it took two
- 1:34:59Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen deaths, maybe even more over twenty three
- 1:35:03Speaker 1: years and a forged will typed on a surgery typewriter
- 1:35:06Speaker 1: to build the world where those safeguards exist, and even
- 1:35:10Speaker 1: now the question that started everything remains exactly where Harold
- 1:35:14Speaker 1: left it unanswered. But that is the case of Harold. Shitman,
- 1:35:19Speaker 1: what a monster. Holy crap. It's crazy to just somebody
- 1:35:24Speaker 1: you trust with your health and your well being to
- 1:35:28Speaker 1: take a loved one's life or your life is just
- 1:35:31Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your head around, but it is
- 1:35:33Speaker 1: something that does happen. There are many cases you guys
- 1:35:35Speaker 1: have told me to cover where it is some sort
- 1:35:37Speaker 1: of medical professional doing this, and I have other ones
- 1:35:40Speaker 1: on the list to deep dive into. But let me
- 1:35:43Speaker 1: know if there are other people you want me to
- 1:35:45Speaker 1: deep dive into. I always read the comments and until
- 1:35:48Speaker 1: then I will see your beautiful face. All right, stay safe,
- 1:35:51Speaker 1: love you bye.