Latest / The Inspired Stories Podcast / Customizing Solutions in Finance and Accounting Recruitment: Insights from Peggy Richards | Staffing Series

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Customizing Solutions in Finance and Accounting Recruitment: Insights from Peggy Richards | Staffing Series · The Inspired Stories Podcast

• 0:04
  Welcome to another edition of Inspired Stories where leaders
• 0:07
  share their experiences so we can learn from their successes,
• 0:10
  how they've overcome adversity, and explore current challenges
• 0:13
  they're facing. Welcome to another edition of
• 0:18
  the Inspired Stories podcast where leaders share their
• 0:21
  experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired
• 0:25
  by how they've overcome adversity.
• 0:27
  My name is Anthony Cotespotti and today's guest is Peggy
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  Richards, the West Coast Managing Director of Athena
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  Finance and Accounting, an award-winning women owned firm
• 0:38
  with a presence in 30 states that has been providing over 20
• 0:42
  years of successful staffing solutions.
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  They blend the scale of a national powerhouse with the
• 0:47
  personalized touch of a boutique agency.
• 0:50
  They do things differently at Athena.
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  While many other staffing firms are bogged down by excessive
• 0:56
  layers of infrastructure and management, Athena cuts the red
• 0:59
  tape with a flat organization that prioritizes efficiency and
• 1:03
  direct communication. Peggy herself has over 30 years
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  of business and talent acquisition experience working
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  for some of the very best public and private national recruiting
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  firms, all while building high performance teams and creating
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  winning cultures. She is personally trained, hired
• 1:21
  and developed over 500 recruiters throughout her
• 1:24
  career. She has LED hundreds of single
• 1:27
  and multi unit managers and her teams have secured talent across
• 1:31
  multiple professional disciplines and industries.
• 1:34
  Now before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is
• 1:37
  brought to you by my company, Add Back Benefits Agency, where
• 1:40
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• 1:43
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• 2:07
  Now back to our guest today, the Managing Director of Athena
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  Finance and Accounting, Peggy Richards.
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  I appreciate you making the time to Share your story today.
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  Thank you for having me. So Peggy, tell us, how did you
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  first find yourself in the staffing industry?
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  Well, it goes back to Gosh Wright College.
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  So I went to school, Loyola Marymount University, and was
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  there and part of actually the Greek system, something I said I
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  would never do. Ended up loving it and I was
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  president of the sorority. And then I did for one year a
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  field consultant role where you travel to different universities
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  across the USI came home for spring break and met with about
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  20 people from college. They all had taken their first,
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  you know, professional corporate job after getting their degree.
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  And they looked miserable. Like everybody looked really
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  miserable except for two people that were down at the end of the
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  table and just buzzing and happy.
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  And I said, what are you guys doing?
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  They said we're in staffing, we're in recruiting.
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  I'm like, you know, I've not really heard about it.
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  Most of the on campus recruitment firms, it was your
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  Procter and Gamble, your Gala Wine Enterprise, Rent a Car.
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  So staffing, you know, what is it?
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  But I think they knew me well in that I definitely wanted to be
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  in a role in working with people and something that was
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  impactful, you know, purposeful type work.
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  And yeah, they referred me in and it just kind of went from
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  there. So it was just referred in by
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  somebody I I trusted and who knew me.
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  And then you just fell in love with the profession.
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  You stayed with it ever since. I did, I did.
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  And it's, it's kind of one of those industries that, you know,
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  within usually the first, well, I think maybe it takes a year to
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  really, really know because there's so many moving parts to
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  it, but you either know you're in or you're out.
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  People tend to really love it and you'll see them stay with it
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  their entire career. And then you'll see people that
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  just, you know, a year or two I'm out.
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  So, but I just, I loved it. I definitely loved it.
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  What do you love most about it? I think finding somebody work,
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  whether it's interim work for them to keep cash flow going or
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  their next work family, if you will, like a direct hire a job,
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  I mean, it's very, it's very rewarding.
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  You know, finding looking for work is very challenging and can
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  be very hard on your psyche. You know, I've seen it with
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  candidates. And so just the feeling of
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  securing something for them and knowing, I think knowing that
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  it's not just for them, there's a good chance maybe they're
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  feeding other mouths right? Or they're, you know, they
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  impact other people. So it's rewarding in that way.
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  Yeah, I could definitely see that.
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  So, Peggy, tell us in your own words what Athena Finance and
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  Accounting does. So we place finance and
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  accounting professionals at all levels within the accounting and
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  finance realm on a interim project base and direct hire
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  basis. So companies will call upon us
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  if, let's say they have a current opening and their talent
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  acquisition team is focused on filling that, but maybe there's
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  a vacancy. So they will call upon us to
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  bring in somebody on an interim basis to keep that workflow
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  going. It can also be a way to hire
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  people onto their payroll. So often companies will go,
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  they'll do what's called contract to hire.
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  Some people refer to it as temporary to hire.
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  Try before you buy, but it's basically bringing somebody on
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  board in a role on a contract basis to where we're the
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  employer. They have 90 days to assess them
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  and the candidate gets to assess them as well.
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  So it's kind of a mutual, you know, interview, if you will.
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  Work like a long term dating thing.
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  Yeah, and it's really because, you know, you think about it.
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  You mean interviewing you when when someone interviews you hope
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  you probably get the best of them, right.
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  Hopefully you get their best version of themselves and that.
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  But often, you know, getting them in the job and doing the
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  job, there could be a gap, right.
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  And will they fit in with the culture, the work environment we
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  have here? Yeah.
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  And that's one thing with companies.
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  Companies equally these days want the technical skills and
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  the culture compatibility. And so going through you to do
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  like a contract, a higher placement, it's kind of an
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  easier way for the company to sort of dip their toe in the
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  water, right? And so the person goes into it
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  knowing this is a 90 day commitment, for example, it's an
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  easier out for the company in that situation versus them
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  hiring somebody on full time, right?
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  And that expectation is full time.
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  And then 90 days later, figuring out it didn't work out and
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  having to give them the bad news that we're moving on.
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  Right. And and you know, when they go
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  contract to hire, it's just one phone call to us.
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  So we take care of that for them.
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  So you know, there's really there's there's no list risk or
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  liability for them as an employer.
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  It's really them just evaluating the work and the culture fit.
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  And again, just one phone call and then we handle that for
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  them. So it works.
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  It works well. What's behind the thought
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  process of focusing specifically on the accounting and finance
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  industry? Yeah, well, in in staffing and
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  there's a lot of staffing companies.
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  Take a guess on how many staffing companies in the USI.
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  Don't know 3000. 26,000 so 20 I know so 26,000 So when you, when
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  you go into recruiting, I mean the, the best way really is to
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  niche, go in with some extra expertise and do kind of a niche
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  focus. So whether it's finance and
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  accounting, IT, marketing, human resources, being a niche player
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  typically is it's just better. It's it's just I don't know.
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  We have more success being in the niche, but accounting and
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  finance in particular has been over at least my career and I've
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  been through a few, you know, recessions and things, but it's
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  considered the pretty steady Eddy niche in in professional
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  staffing where like IT, for example, we've seen so much
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  flux. I mean ITS had a rough year last
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  year, this year, but but accounting and finance stays
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  pretty, pretty steady. So it's a steady niche.
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  Yeah, I mean, right. We've seen lots of big tech
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  companies with extensive rounds of layoffs in the last couple of
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  years as they're trying to trim costs.
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  But accounting and finance, you're always going to need that
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  function. You're always going to need
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  those roles. That's not going away.
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  And so I could see that. And it reminds me of one of the
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  favorite sayings that an old mentor used to mention to me,
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  which is riches are there's riches and niches, right?
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  So you get to specialize and focus on something.
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  You get to know who sort of the players are, what the lingo is,
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  what the skill sets are, you know, the trainings that you're
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  looking for. You're not having to kind of
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  reinvent the wheel and educating yourself and your your your
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  recruiters on what to look for. It's just, it's part of the
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  vocabulary. Right, exactly.
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  And it really is, you know, if you're trying to do be, be all
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  things to all people, there are some firms that are like general
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  staffing companies and many of them very successful.
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  But I, I do think it's difficult to go from placing, you know, a
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  production worker to a controller, right?
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  Or, you know, it's a whole different profile of candidate
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  of experience of education and it requires sourcing and
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  research. And you know what I mean in that
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  niche. And it's just, yeah, when you
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  have a lot of different, it's, it's just I think it's more
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  challenging. So the focus has been good.
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  So am I correct? Athena has a presence in 30
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  states. Is that right?
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  Yes. So Athena, we're a division of
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  Athena Consulting, which is based on the East Coast,
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  specifically in Gaithersburg, MD, and has been in business now
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  for about almost 22 years, operating in over 30 states.
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  And their focus is all in the government sectors.
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  So they are doing government staffing, working with state,
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  local agencies, federal government.
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  And the primary focus that they're doing a significant
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  amount of work is in the human health services space.
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  So placing behavioral therapist, speech pathologist, you know
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  that kind of skill set. And so then the idea for Athena
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  Accounting and Finance came about as a way to kind of
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  diversify, to maybe move into the private.
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  Diversify, right, to get into the private sector to versify
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  kind of the overall book of business, right for the company.
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  And yeah, so this is their first time in the private sector.
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  And our CEO, who's phenomenal, Marissa Pappas, she was actually
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  looking at acquiring a company. And I, I was fortunate, someone
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  I had worked with years ago at a private staffing company and
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  we've always kept in touch. I reached out to her when I was
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  jumping back in from having my own firm and the timing was
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  great. She said, wow, we're looking at
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  buying a company out there, let's talk to you instead.
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  And so that's what they did. So I ended up getting an
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  opportunity to interview with the CEO and the CFO and she just
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  really got behind, you know, my experience and you know,
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  basically bringing that to Athena and that's what that's
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  what we've done. Oh, fascinating.
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  And so now with Athena finance and and accounting, can you
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  operate in every state? Are there certain states that
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  you're sort of limiting your focus on?
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  No, we can operate. So we cover the US right now.
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  Our focus though is, is it's very focused in Southern
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  California right now specifically because the initial
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  launch team, they're all based in Southern California and
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  that's where kind of they know that market quite well.
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  But we literally can do searches throughout the country.
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  So, you know, right now we're working on a search for in
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  Georgia, we're working on several in Florida, but the
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  heavy part of our business is Southern California right now.
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  So what kind of a company is a good fit for you as a client?
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  You know, I would say probably, you know, you hate saying this
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  because you know, you want to think you can work with all
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  different types of companies and sizes.
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  But I think where we'd probably our best is your mid size
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  company. So a company that could be, I
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  mean anywhere from 50 million to several 100 million maybe
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  depending on their industry, but probably a mid size company.
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  I would say a mid size company, you know, as far as industry,
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  we, you know, pretty much industry agnostic.
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  But we are seeing quite a bit of demand right now, which I find
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  interesting. But we, we do have a heavy
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  demand in manufacturing, which if you look at the different
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  labor categories and unemployment and things,
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  manufacturing has been hit one of the hardest.
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  But finance and accounting in manufacturing, there's a lot of
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  need and then we're seeing it in aerospace and then we're seeing
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  it in the health or not health, bio, BioMed, I would say bio,
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  bio and Med device, those are like pretty dominant with us
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  right now. If I were to ask you what Athena
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  does differently, how would you answer that?
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  What we do differently is because we employ great people
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  like I, I really love the team that we have.
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  I mean, I've always loved the teams, right, that we've built.
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  And so we have, I think phenomenal people, but it's what
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  we allow those people to do. So if you talk to anybody at any
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  staffing, they're all going to have great people, right?
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  There's, you know, hopefully so you hope that they have really
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  good people. But I think it's the environment
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  that's created that allows them to really, really perform.
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  So the key difference here is we're more outcome focused than
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  KPI focused. So most many staffing companies,
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  their operating business model is really driving very high
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  levels of activity, very high levels of activity.
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  You know, it's typical between 100 and 150 connects on the
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  phone a week with prospective clients and buyers, you know,
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  11:50 in person client meetings, 10.
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  I mean, it's a heavy week. And what I found in my
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  experience in working for companies that were focused on
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  activity is that the activity became the name of the game
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  versus the outcome, if that makes sense.
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  So people were more focused on hitting their activity numbers
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  for the week. How many people did I call?
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  How many meetings did I have? Instead of the ultimate level?
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  Yeah. And I really always struggled
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  with that. I always had because I thought,
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  my God, what are they doing? And then you, you know, you run
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  into issues. It's human nature.
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  You'll get people starting to put stuff in and maybe they
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  didn't really even do it because they're trying to hit a certain
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  amount of numbers. So it just, I think it the
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  behaviors that it can ensue because it's just focused.
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  I'm not saying it's the wrong thing.
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  You need out activity to get outcomes.
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  But when you hire a team whose average tenure is 16 years, they
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  already know what they're doing. They don't have to tell them how
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  many people they need to interview to find three.
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  You know, strong candidates to submit, so they already know
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  what they have to do and the quality of their conversations.
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  They're at just such a higher level.
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  They don't have to do as many calls and connects to get the
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  same outcome as perhaps a new recruiter at a large public
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  staffing company right out of college that basically is, you
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  know, they're teaching them the business through driving high
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  levels of activity. So I think that's a key
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  difference. We're focused on outcome, non
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  activity. And so I feel like we're very
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  intentional with our clients and candidates very present and we
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  are able to customize really customized solutions based, you
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  know, on their scenario. So I would say that's a key
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  difference. And then I think the other would
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  be Athena was remote from its inception and and that is very
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  contrary to staffing companies throughout the USI mean they
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  were all on site, all probably 26,000 of them, you know, on
• 16:26
  site in an office building and in a lot of staffing companies
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  not really that comfortable, you know, putting people out remote.
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  I would always that was always met with resistance if we ever
• 16:38
  needed to do it, maybe for a certain employee for a period of
• 16:41
  time in their life. Hey, can they, you know, it was
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  just always very difficult. It's like they they just didn't
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  like they didn't trust people or something.
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  But COVID, you know, really made everybody go remote for the most
• 16:52
  part. Some companies have now gone
• 16:54
  back on site, but Athena kind of had that remote model completely
• 16:59
  down and wired well before COVID.
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  And so that's actually has been a huge advantage because what
• 17:05
  I'm, you know, I'm very pretty tapped into the marketplace and
• 17:08
  competitors. And what I'm hearing is a lot of
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  the competitors struggling now that have gone fully remote due
• 17:15
  to COVID, really struggling with having their people be remote
• 17:19
  and really the trust factor. And so they're driving high,
• 17:22
  high levels of activity, lots of checks and balances to where
• 17:26
  people, people are now unhappy feeling they're being
• 17:28
  micromanaged, you know, and I don't know, adult wants to be
• 17:32
  micromanaged. So the thing that we do well
• 17:35
  with the remote is our engagement of our internal
• 17:38
  staff. So the company has like 2
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  huddles. We have like a, oh gosh, like a
• 17:44
  town hall once a month. And then we do a fun huddle
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  that's completely social and it's ran by a different member
• 17:50
  of the company. And it could be like, you know,
• 17:52
  sharing your favorite holiday tradition.
• 17:54
  It's always a different topic, but I don't know, they just do a
• 17:57
  lot to keep people very engaged and feeling part of a company.
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  You know, you don't really, you feel like you're part of
• 18:03
  something. So I think we do that really
• 18:05
  well. And those huddles are done like
• 18:07
  on a Zoom call, kind of like this.
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  Yeah, we do it in a team's call and it's the entire company.
• 18:12
  You see everybody's face. The CEO kicks it off.
• 18:15
  We hear from the CFO, the company town hall huddle, you
• 18:20
  know, our CEO believes that she wants the team to be comfortable
• 18:26
  if if a relative, a friend says, hey, how's Athena, she wants us
• 18:29
  to be able to answer and say, hey, here, here's how we're
• 18:31
  doing. So we're really pretty open
• 18:32
  book, you know, with that. And so the CFO presents big
• 18:36
  picture. We hear from the government
• 18:38
  operations team and then I present on the accounting and
• 18:41
  finance. And then we just launched a
• 18:43
  human resources division doing exactly what we're doing, but
• 18:47
  all HR focused. So and then they present.
• 18:50
  So that's kind of on the business town hall and then we
• 18:54
  had that fun one, which is just always something different and
• 18:57
  fun. So it's good.
• 18:59
  So if I'm hearing you right, Peggy, I think one of the
• 19:03
  advantages for Athena in the especially in the last several
• 19:07
  years has been that Athena started as remote, right?
• 19:11
  So the the expectations, the culture, the metrics that you're
• 19:17
  measuring, we're all geared towards this remote environment
• 19:22
  with the understanding that nobody likes to be micromanaged.
• 19:25
  So we're not going to track how many phone calls you supposedly
• 19:29
  made today. What we want to see is, you
• 19:32
  know, how many people were you able to place right?
• 19:35
  And you're not going through the back and forth challenges of
• 19:41
  having to teach a group of people that have been in office
• 19:45
  for years to suddenly learn how to work remotely in a in a
• 19:50
  trustworthy way. And then subsequently the snap
• 19:54
  back to, you know, trying to pull people back into office and
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  dealing with the backlash that a lot of other companies are
• 20:01
  getting for doing that. You've always been remote.
• 20:03
  The expectations, the goals, the metrics were in place to support
• 20:06
  that. And so.
• 20:09
  COVID certainly brought turbulence to your company, I'm
• 20:11
  sure, but you didn't have to go through all that sort of back
• 20:14
  and forth and relearning how to do some of the basic things.
• 20:19
  Right, correct. Yeah.
• 20:21
  And so in terms of what those differences look like for the
• 20:28
  customer, I think we were talking a little bit more about
• 20:31
  how you do things differently sort of behind the scenes with
• 20:33
  your team. What differences might a
• 20:36
  customer notice in terms of how Athena operates?
• 20:40
  And that's a great, great question.
• 20:41
  I think, you know, one of the differences for sure, like we're
• 20:46
  definitely focused on the client experience.
• 20:48
  And even before we begin working with the clients, we do quite a
• 20:52
  bit of research to make sure that we're going after companies
• 20:54
  that are strong, you know, lead well, have strong cultures,
• 20:59
  etcetera. So we try to really select
• 21:02
  companies more than just we're not going to just work with
• 21:04
  anybody. We want to feel good about where
• 21:06
  we're sending somebody. And so I think the experience
• 21:09
  though for them is it's pretty, they do very little on their
• 21:13
  end. So our one of our corporate
• 21:16
  values is making our clients life easier.
• 21:19
  And So what we do when we get a search or let's say it's a
• 21:23
  contract to hire, what have you, we basically lay out the process
• 21:29
  with the client on the front end.
• 21:31
  So we're not sending them a bunch of resumes, which is what
• 21:33
  a lot of staffing companies will do.
• 21:35
  They'll take what's called, you know, a job order, they'll take
• 21:38
  all the details and then they'll start sending submittals,
• 21:41
  resumes, probably with a little profile written up.
• 21:43
  So we're not doing that at all. What we're doing is we get them
• 21:47
  to identify a date where they can do the first round of
• 21:50
  interviews. And then if there's a second and
• 21:52
  final, however that looks. And then we just, we talked to
• 21:56
  them the day before. We go over the three people
• 21:58
  we're sending them and they meet with those three, they come down
• 22:01
  to their final and that's it. So they're not, they're just
• 22:04
  really letting us do the whole thing.
• 22:05
  They're because sending resumes. We're just not about that.
• 22:08
  It's like I and I'm not for it. A lot of staffing companies do
• 22:11
  it and that's truly what they're hiring us to do.
• 22:15
  So sending the client a bunch of resumes and having them having
• 22:18
  to go through the, you know what I mean?
• 22:19
  It's no, that's what we do. So we just button up the
• 22:22
  process. It's shorter process from the
• 22:26
  initial like taking in, we call it an intake call with the
• 22:29
  client that we do in person or on teams.
• 22:33
  And we always have the recruiter on that call.
• 22:35
  So they're hearing first hand from the client not just what's
• 22:38
  on the job description, but more importantly what's not on it,
• 22:41
  right. And what maybe what a candidate
• 22:43
  needs to have to be successful in their company in that
• 22:47
  department. But it's just a shorter process.
• 22:51
  I would say it's a shorter process and it's very
• 22:52
  customized. And then the other benefit I
• 22:55
  believe is because we're remote, we I mean we passed those
• 23:00
  savings on to the client. And that's something that a lot
• 23:04
  of companies, you know, as we start talking to them and we
• 23:07
  talked about we're a remote model, you know, long before
• 23:09
  everybody else like this is what we've always done.
• 23:12
  And we pass on those savings to the client and they'll they'll
• 23:15
  see it in our pricing. Our pricing is not, we were not
• 23:19
  the lowest. We are definitely not the most
• 23:21
  expensive. I think they see us as very fair
• 23:23
  pricing. We do not get pushed back.
• 23:25
  We just don't and I think it's because it's fair.
• 23:28
  And so I think that's something that in the industry you haven't
• 23:34
  seen other staffing companies at least from clients I'm talking
• 23:37
  to that have adjusted their rates.
• 23:39
  Their rates have only gone up. And you know, they can point to
• 23:42
  inflation and different things. But I challenge that by saying
• 23:45
  really you're 100% remote. You used to have 250 physical A
• 23:48
  class buildings you're in, you know what I mean, across the
• 23:51
  country, you're no longer like those are.
• 23:53
  That's huge capital expense. And so, yeah, we proudly say,
• 23:57
  hey, we pass that on to you client.
• 23:59
  So we do. That wasn't even something I was
• 24:01
  thinking about. The benefit of the remote model
• 24:03
  is you're not paying for expensive rent and the upkeep of
• 24:08
  that space. So that's a significant cost
• 24:11
  savings. It is and I think people don't
• 24:13
  look at that enough. It's funny, I was talking to a
• 24:16
  client the other day and I happened to mention it and then
• 24:18
  they mentioned a huge competitor and said, Oh, I need to ask them
• 24:21
  next time I talk to them. I'm like you should you know,
• 24:23
  because their, their pricing is significantly higher than ours.
• 24:26
  And I think it's, but it, but they also too, and this is a
• 24:29
  different with our different with our model or difference
• 24:32
  with our model is a lot of those companies still have like really
• 24:37
  like a lot of infrastructure layers of management, which I
• 24:40
  also have found in my career. You don't really need.
• 24:43
  And often what the staffing company will do is they'll take
• 24:46
  a great, great recruiter, a great salesperson, and then
• 24:49
  they, you know, put them in that leadership role, but they often
• 24:53
  lose, you know, their number one salesperson or recruiter and get
• 24:55
  an OK manager, you know, but I think that right, I just lost my
• 25:03
  train of thought as I was talking about that, the layers
• 25:06
  too with our models. So we have, we're flat.
• 25:09
  We're really flat. So in other companies I might
• 25:12
  have been 3 or 4 levels removed from the recruiters and sales
• 25:16
  people and here not it's me and them and and so it's me and the
• 25:22
  team and it's great. And so we're very strategic,
• 25:25
  like every transaction, every client, we're getting very
• 25:27
  strategizing, trying to customize something, make it
• 25:31
  work for them, and also really working hard to create a
• 25:34
  different and better experience than that, you know, than
• 25:37
  they're having with other firms. Well, that's something else that
• 25:40
  is offering a higher degree of cost efficiency as well by
• 25:44
  taking out those different layers of structure and
• 25:46
  management. Yes, yeah.
• 25:48
  And we also too like with AI, we are doing a great job.
• 25:53
  You know the remote model, right, So no overhead, 0
• 25:56
  overhead. We have a corporate office, but
• 25:57
  it's not huge. And so we have a remote model
• 26:01
  and then we leverage AI tools both for sales and recruiting
• 26:05
  where it makes sense. And then also, we have an
• 26:08
  offshore team and this was something that when I was first
• 26:12
  interviewing with Athena, I was really like, really intrigued by
• 26:17
  because I always wanted to kind of look at that offshore.
• 26:19
  How can you leverage offshore? Well, right.
• 26:23
  And so they've done it and they've had 0 turnover in the
• 26:26
  last like three years with an offshore team, which is unheard
• 26:29
  of. And it's because they also do a
• 26:31
  great job of integrating them into our culture.
• 26:34
  So those individuals, they're on our huddle, our team, you know,
• 26:37
  company town hall and huddle. And so they've done a great job
• 26:41
  with that. So we have somebody who's
• 26:43
  offshore, I only have one for my team offshore.
• 26:45
  Everybody else is here. But it does help.
• 26:48
  There's we've got a the, the woman that we have working with
• 26:51
  us is from Columbia and she's been placing people in finance
• 26:55
  and accounting for 10 years. She's phenomenal.
• 26:58
  And you know, obviously it's at a much lower expense than if she
• 27:01
  were here in the States. But yeah, so that's been.
• 27:05
  And is she recruiting folks that are also in Central America or
• 27:08
  is she recruiting folks that are here in the States?
• 27:11
  She's 100% recruiting in the states.
• 27:12
  Mm, hmm, yeah. Yep, and doing really well.
• 27:15
  And yeah, it's been good. I want to come back to the AI
• 27:19
  component, but I wanted to give voice to something else that you
• 27:22
  were saying a few minutes ago. You don't send your clients a
• 27:25
  stack of resumes. You whittle that down for them
• 27:29
  to Here's the top three. And I don't have a lot of
• 27:34
  experience working in staffing agencies.
• 27:36
  I did work with a recruiter several years ago for one of my
• 27:39
  other businesses. And one of the things that was
• 27:43
  so refreshing about working with this gentleman was he followed
• 27:47
  exactly the same model. You know, whereas I used to have
• 27:50
  to go to the job boards and, you know, comb through all these
• 27:54
  resumes and it was, it was just, it was overload.
• 27:57
  Like I didn't even know where to begin, how to, how to start to
• 28:01
  turn the filter on. And this gentleman came in and
• 28:04
  he managed the entire, you know, I gave him the job description.
• 28:07
  We kind of talked about it. And this is exactly what you're
• 28:10
  describing. And he would come back to me
• 28:12
  with here's 3 folks for your interview and here's the person
• 28:16
  I think is the best. Yeah.
• 28:18
  Yeah. And I was like.
• 28:20
  But isn't that nice? It just takes it off like your
• 28:23
  plate completely. It's so all those resumes you
• 28:26
  were going through, if you can imagine, because of course we
• 28:28
  place ads on LinkedIn. We use LinkedIn quite a bit for
• 28:31
  recruiting. And you know, you kept really
• 28:34
  mixed results from ads, bottom line.
• 28:36
  So like the majority of ours is proactive, more cold recruiting
• 28:40
  where we're just approaching people on LinkedIn and trying to
• 28:43
  engage them and really just, you know, having conversations, even
• 28:46
  if they're not looking to find out, you know, what would it
• 28:50
  take for you to look up? What kind of opportunity would
• 28:52
  interest you? So we're building profiles that
• 28:54
  way too, right? And then we're able to come back
• 28:56
  to them. It could be 3 months, six months
• 28:58
  and say, hey, I thought of you, we had something that came in,
• 29:00
  you know what I mean? It meets their needs and then it
• 29:03
  kind of goes from there. Interesting.
• 29:05
  So your approach to recruiting is not just placing ads, but
• 29:11
  sort of going out and tapping people on the shoulder that are
• 29:14
  maybe not looking for a job? Oh yeah.
• 29:17
  And that's in particular with our direct hire practice and
• 29:19
  retained practice, retained search companies.
• 29:23
  And I feel, I mean, I feel the same way.
• 29:24
  You know, I don't want somebody that I can find, you know, you
• 29:27
  kind of want somebody who's not out there in the market
• 29:29
  responding to ads, right? Their resume is not all over the
• 29:32
  place. And some of the best people to
• 29:34
  recruit are people that are, you know, heads down, happy,
• 29:36
  successful. Those are the people companies
• 29:38
  want. So we try to engage them very
• 29:41
  softly, you know what I mean, upfront and just build
• 29:43
  relationship relationships with them.
• 29:45
  And and that's been that's been helpful too.
• 29:49
  Seems like that would be a much more time consuming process
• 29:52
  rather than just running ads and seeing what comes back to you,
• 29:55
  but it also seems like it would lead to a much higher caliber
• 30:00
  pool of candidates. It does.
• 30:02
  It does. It makes a big difference.
• 30:04
  And then referrals. So we do a bonus referral
• 30:06
  program. We get, you know, great people,
• 30:09
  no great people. And so we pay $1000 for
• 30:13
  candidates that are placed that were referred to us, which is
• 30:16
  pretty strong. You'll usually see bonuses of
• 30:18
  two 5500. So we just did a little bit
• 30:20
  more, but referrals have also been a good source of of strong
• 30:25
  candidates. So let's go back to AI because
• 30:28
  different people view AI differently.
• 30:30
  Some people see it as an amazing tool, opportunity for
• 30:35
  efficiencies, and other people see it as a threat to their job
• 30:40
  security. How do you think about it?
• 30:43
  How does Athena think about it? With recruiting, it's, I mean,
• 30:47
  so far it's only helped us go faster.
• 30:50
  It's only helped us go faster. I think that it's going to, I
• 30:55
  think it's going to continue to play a role.
• 30:56
  I think it'll continue to play a greater and greater role, but
• 30:59
  it's not going to replace the recruiter.
• 31:01
  I mean, you still need your live human person, right, to assess
• 31:05
  somebody. You can't really, I mean, you
• 31:08
  need a person to assess somebody in terms of their EQ, their
• 31:11
  leadership ability, all those like intangible skills.
• 31:14
  So it's not going to, I don't think it's going to take the
• 31:17
  industry away, you know what I mean?
• 31:19
  It's almost like when offshore recruiting became big, I don't
• 31:24
  know, 15 years ago, it started maybe 20 years ago.
• 31:26
  I don't even know. Everybody thought, Oh my gosh,
• 31:28
  Oh my gosh. Just like they did when Monster,
• 31:30
  the job board came out. Remember the industry was super
• 31:33
  scared when career builder, you know, Monster, all those and
• 31:36
  those only became aids for us. Those only became, it just
• 31:39
  helped us do our job. So, so far it's helping our
• 31:42
  jobs. So there's like, you know, we
• 31:45
  have different for business development.
• 31:48
  We use Apollo, which is an app that sits on top of LinkedIn.
• 31:52
  And so we're able to, you know, we can look somebody up just
• 31:56
  with a click and they're able to give us a lot more information
• 31:59
  on them and even the org chart of the company and things.
• 32:02
  So we'll use that and that's AI and that's been working great on
• 32:06
  the candidate side. The only thing really using a on
• 32:09
  the candidate side will be when we do create job ads, we'll use
• 32:13
  AI for sure. It's easier, you know, it's just
• 32:16
  quicker. They do a better job probably
• 32:18
  than I could write an ad or a team.
• 32:20
  So we'll do it for writing ads. And then if we're interviewing
• 32:25
  candidates in a very particular niche within a niche in finance,
• 32:29
  and maybe it's something we haven't had a lot of experience
• 32:32
  on, we'll go into AI to get the questions, say, hey, what should
• 32:35
  I be asking this person to see, you know, so we can use it for
• 32:38
  that as well. So it's really, yeah, so far
• 32:41
  it's just been helping us do our job better and quicker.
• 32:44
  Sorry if I missed this, but are you also using any AI tools to
• 32:48
  help you sort of filter through the resumes that you're getting?
• 32:54
  We do. Well all of.
• 32:55
  So we do. Most of the majority of our
• 32:57
  recruiting that we do is LinkedIn.
• 32:59
  And so LinkedIn has AI built within their system.
• 33:03
  So we are able to use different filters to really narrow down
• 33:07
  who we want and even filters to say, I want them to have this,
• 33:10
  but not this, you know, and you could get it as specific as you
• 33:14
  want. And then it will actually, you
• 33:16
  work within a project within LinkedIn and it'll even tell
• 33:19
  you, hey, these are our recommended matches.
• 33:21
  These are people that are open to work because you can put an
• 33:24
  open to work banner on your LinkedIn, you know, so that's
• 33:28
  pretty much how it's used on LinkedIn.
• 33:30
  And I I just. They constantly are adding and
• 33:33
  making that even better. Oh, fascinating.
• 33:36
  And so that is sort of the version of AI that you're using
• 33:40
  through LinkedIn when you're reaching out to somebody who's
• 33:42
  not searching. But what about like when you run
• 33:45
  an ad and you're getting resumes back from folks?
• 33:48
  Is that still all like a manual review process or is there some
• 33:51
  tools that that help? Speed up.
• 33:55
  No, it's still manual review. It would be still manual review.
• 33:58
  But what we try to do when you do the ads and things, we do get
• 34:01
  pretty micro with the words to get it as specific as possible.
• 34:05
  But no, often you're still going through a fair amount of people,
• 34:09
  OK, because there's also people who, and we'll see this a lot in
• 34:12
  finance and accounting. They have terrific backgrounds,
• 34:15
  great education, but they don't know how to write a resume.
• 34:17
  They're just, or they've never really had to.
• 34:19
  A lot of great people get referred into companies.
• 34:22
  I just always get referred. They use my LinkedIn profile.
• 34:24
  So we also don't rule somebody out because their resume because
• 34:28
  the resume never tells the full story.
• 34:31
  You know, it just doesn't. And so you do have to look
• 34:34
  through because you'll also there's positions in accounting
• 34:38
  that could have, you know, 15 ways to say the same thing too.
• 34:41
  So it does call for like some diligence and and still going
• 34:45
  through quite a few. And so you go through the resume
• 34:48
  and it may be poorly written, but you don't discount that.
• 34:52
  What do you do? Where do you go to sort of
• 34:56
  verify that they might be a a good fit?
• 35:00
  Right. So what we might do, we might
• 35:01
  just pick up the phone and call them.
• 35:03
  We also have a preliminary like profile builder that we use.
• 35:07
  So let's say candidates not ready to interview, maybe they
• 35:10
  don't even have a resume. It's it's an e-mail we send.
• 35:13
  It's kind of a help me help you where they're giving us a lot of
• 35:16
  information that will help us kind of clarify can this guy do
• 35:20
  this or not, this person do this job or not.
• 35:23
  If we're recruiting for a specific job, we will also
• 35:26
  e-mail them specific questions related to that opportunity and
• 35:29
  ask for examples, accomplishments, you know,
• 35:32
  tangible things, etcetera. So it just depends.
• 35:36
  It just depends. Peggy, what is the biggest
• 35:39
  mistake that you see companies make when hiring?
• 35:47
  I think being too rigid on their company profile.
• 35:51
  There's some companies who'll say, oh, they're not, they're
• 35:53
  not our, they're not ABC company material, you know, whatever it
• 35:57
  is. I think just not being so rigid,
• 35:59
  meaning, you know, being more open minded.
• 36:03
  I think to the person's story, that's probably the way I want
• 36:05
  to say it. So I had worked for a company
• 36:08
  where every person we interviewed, we had to sit down
• 36:12
  with this pretty big company too, sit down with the CEO and
• 36:15
  go over the people we wanted to hire internally.
• 36:18
  It was like a 20 page packet with references with, you know,
• 36:22
  assessment, all this stuff. And that was a good experience
• 36:27
  for me because that company really wanted only so many jobs
• 36:32
  within so many years. They also kind of had a like
• 36:35
  they wanted to see someone graduate from an undergrad in no
• 36:38
  more than five years. And so I would say, and I don't
• 36:43
  agree with that. So, and I didn't agree with it
• 36:46
  all the time. So I was kind of the one who
• 36:48
  would come and say, hey, so they actually took eight years to
• 36:51
  graduate. Let me tell you the story.
• 36:52
  You know, they were taking care of a sick parent and they were
• 36:55
  working full time. Like, I would rather have
• 36:57
  someone who's got the story of grit and perseverance and you
• 37:01
  know what I mean? So I think the biggest mistake
• 37:05
  they can make is just kind of going off their profile and
• 37:07
  resume and not going deeper into like, find out their story, find
• 37:11
  out who they are as a person. Well, that's probably a bit
• 37:14
  easier for the company, right, Because they're like, well, if
• 37:17
  we put some of these filters in place like this is a good way to
• 37:20
  reduce the number of candidates that we have to review.
• 37:24
  But by engaging Athena, then you guys are taking that busy work
• 37:29
  off their plates. And hey, let's not be so rigid
• 37:33
  here. We'll do the additional like
• 37:35
  digging and research to find out if this person is worth taking
• 37:39
  to the next step. Yeah, yes, yes.
• 37:44
  Let me see, where do we want to go next?
• 37:46
  Actually if if we can real quick, Peggy, I'm going to pause
• 37:49
  here and see if maybe you can turn on echo cancellation on
• 37:53
  your side. Is that a function that you see?
• 37:55
  There, let me echo cancellation on the speaker.
• 38:02
  Maybe I'm not. Where would I find that?
• 38:07
  I'm seeing it in a sidebar. There's a picture of me.
• 38:13
  There's a picture of you. So he's recording echo
• 38:17
  cancellation. But if we can't find it, that's
• 38:24
  all right, we will. Am I echoing on your end?
• 38:27
  Yes. That's not good.
• 38:29
  Yeah, but that's OK. I I can I can.
• 38:32
  You can fix that I. I, I'll have to check with my
• 38:35
  producer if it if, because I don't know if it's getting
• 38:37
  recorded or if it's just something that I hear that I'm
• 38:42
  not sure of, but we'll, we'll sort of cut this part out.
• 38:47
  We're about the 51 minute mark. So this one doesn't have to make
• 38:51
  the final edit. OK, let's see, Peggy, what is
• 39:01
  maybe a serious challenge that you've had to overcome either in
• 39:05
  your professional or your personal life, and what are some
• 39:08
  lessons that you learn coming through the other side?
• 39:12
  Oh my goodness. I would say personal challenge.
• 39:22
  I think you know this, you know, staffing career is very, you put
• 39:29
  a lot into it. You typically long hours, all of
• 39:32
  that. That's how it's been
• 39:33
  historically. COVID really changed that for
• 39:36
  the industry, which I think has been phenomenal.
• 39:37
  But probably one of my biggest challenges was back in 2015,
• 39:45
  2014, when my husband was diagnosed with esophageal cancer
• 39:49
  and went through treatment, you know, for 18 months, very, very
• 39:53
  severe. I ended up, he ended up passing.
• 39:55
  And so, you know, being, I think working, you know, at a big job,
• 40:01
  lots of responsibility and balancing that, you know, the
• 40:05
  one thing I did, I did, I think I did a really, here's what I
• 40:08
  learned. I did a really good job.
• 40:10
  Of separating like I would come to work and it was like turn off
• 40:13
  personal life completely because I had to to focus and I kind of
• 40:17
  work became my escape a little bit right.
• 40:21
  So kind of poured myself into my work and just decide I was
• 40:25
  really not going to talk about it much or bring people into I
• 40:28
  just wanted to keep it separate. And when I look back, I think I
• 40:33
  would have done that differently because it ended up that that is
• 40:38
  how I did did life when he was really, really sick.
• 40:41
  And I end up having one of the best years.
• 40:43
  I end up going making it to a Hawaii trip and all this great
• 40:45
  stuff performance wise. But I personally didn't deal
• 40:49
  with the grief. He passed in 2016 and then I
• 40:53
  really didn't deal with it till 2021.
• 40:56
  So I basically prolonged, you know what I mean?
• 41:00
  And I thought I was like, no, I'm doing OK because I'm
• 41:02
  navigating life and moving forward.
• 41:04
  But the emotional part of it and the loss, I didn't really let, I
• 41:08
  didn't let myself register it really until a few years later.
• 41:12
  So I guess looking back, I probably should have been a
• 41:16
  little bit more, you know what I mean?
• 41:17
  Just not think I had. And I really felt, and I think
• 41:21
  some of it was being a woman too.
• 41:23
  I think when you're in a woman in leadership and sort of a
• 41:25
  significant positions, you have this sense like, OK, I can do
• 41:29
  it. And you just don't want to, you
• 41:31
  know, you don't want to fail and you don't want to let anybody
• 41:32
  down. And you think about, OK, if this
• 41:34
  is happening in a man's life, he wouldn't bring it to work, you
• 41:37
  know? But I regret that part.
• 41:39
  I regret that I didn't sort of, yeah.
• 41:42
  Because I don't know, I just felt like I kept it 2 separate
• 41:45
  to where I never really dealt with it.
• 41:46
  So that's more of a personal thing that I would say I
• 41:48
  learned. Yeah.
• 41:50
  And I'm curious, what was it in 2021 that was sort of the
• 41:53
  trigger for you kind of coming face to face with this in a way
• 41:58
  that you hadn't yet? You know what, I I went on a
• 42:01
  woman's retreat. So I went on a woman's retreat.
• 42:05
  Didn't even think I belonged. But basically it was, it just
• 42:10
  happened to all come together and it was this a counselor I
• 42:13
  was seeing who actually works with first responders.
• 42:18
  So you're San Bernardino, you know, the shooting 911, she gets
• 42:20
  called in on really intense crisis management and
• 42:24
  counseling. So somebody I knew who was a
• 42:27
  first responder said, I wonder if she would talk to you because
• 42:29
  she's incredible because I said, hey, I'm looking to talk to
• 42:31
  somebody. And this person basically ran
• 42:35
  into her the next day in Target. It was like, to me, I'm like,
• 42:37
  it's a God thing. And so I saw her two days later,
• 42:40
  she's like, I'll talk to her. And she said, I'm, you know, I'm
• 42:43
  called to invite you to this woman's retreat.
• 42:45
  It's eight women, they're all married to 1st responders or
• 42:48
  have been first responders. She goes.
• 42:50
  But I think you'll fit in fine because you've kind of been a
• 42:52
  first responder in your life and many things.
• 42:55
  And so, yeah, I went and it was a weekend of four therapists,
• 43:00
  eight people. They say it's like a year of
• 43:02
  therapy in four days. And we did.
• 43:05
  Probably the most impactful was equestrian with horses therapy.
• 43:11
  So they did some horse type therapy.
• 43:13
  Horses can really sense your emotions like even more than so
• 43:16
  than dolphins. So they did some cool stuff with
• 43:19
  that, but it was mostly just group things and talking and it
• 43:22
  was therapy. It was group therapy pretty
• 43:24
  much. And I feel like that was a huge
• 43:26
  turning point because it was this comfortable space for a
• 43:30
  weekend where I could really just let it just let it go like
• 43:32
  I could, you know what I mean? And I could accept what happened
• 43:35
  and feel the pain, allow myself to feel that pain.
• 43:38
  So I that was, yeah, that was key.
• 43:42
  That retreat was key for me. This was a place that you could
• 43:45
  just open up and finally let the emotions come out, come to the
• 43:48
  surface where you have been sort of tamping this all down.
• 43:52
  I got this. I'm busy, I'm successful, I'm
• 43:55
  focusing on my career. I'm good.
• 43:57
  Right, right. It's.
• 43:58
  Happened, it's in the past, but now you're like, oh, actually I
• 44:02
  need to, I, I need for this to come out.
• 44:04
  Yeah, and I didn't realize it like literally they, they
• 44:07
  brought in like an energy healer.
• 44:09
  And not that I would have even looked into that.
• 44:11
  I don't know in the past, but I was like, Wow.
• 44:13
  And have you ever done energy healing or anything like that?
• 44:17
  He literally so he was doing his work and, you know, there's
• 44:20
  music in the background, but he put his hand and he said, you
• 44:22
  know, I'm not touching. I'm putting my hand over your
• 44:24
  heart. And when he did it, I remember
• 44:26
  just feeling like I could barely breathe, like it was really
• 44:28
  like. And he said you have such a
• 44:31
  heavy heart and he did something weird to my back.
• 44:34
  And the most I just cried like a baby for probably 3 hours, no
• 44:37
  lie. So I don't know what he
• 44:38
  released. He said it was some sort of
• 44:40
  whatever they had to release. I don't know.
• 44:42
  So I mean, it was just it was an awesome experience.
• 44:45
  It was great. What did your trajectory look
• 44:48
  like after that women's retreat? Well, let's rewind.
• 44:54
  So after the before the retreat in 2020, which was also I think
• 44:57
  a turning point in my career when COVID hit and I was working
• 45:01
  for a really large, great privately held staffing company
• 45:04
  and my region was doing very, very well.
• 45:08
  COVID hit and the business overnight, like overnight seemed
• 45:11
  to drop within another lie, probably 2 1/2 three weeks,
• 45:15
  business dropped like almost 50% for the company.
• 45:19
  And it was just, you know, you, you were going from having all
• 45:23
  these offices to 1st getting your internal staff mobile
• 45:26
  working out of their home. And then all your candidates see
• 45:29
  about working clients panicking. So the first thing they do is
• 45:32
  get rid of their variable expense.
• 45:33
  Any contractors get, you know, I mean, they're trying to navigate
• 45:36
  things. So it was crazy.
• 45:38
  And we did two rounds of layoffs and I never, I never thought I
• 45:43
  would get laid off from there because my region was, you know
• 45:46
  what I mean? I'm like, oh, and I got laid
• 45:48
  off. And it was really, they
• 45:49
  eliminated my position and the two others across the country
• 45:53
  and rolled it into the person above us.
• 45:55
  So it was a business decision, but it was that was really,
• 45:57
  really tough because here it was COVID navigating COVID.
• 46:01
  I got laid off. Nobody's hiring in the industry.
• 46:04
  And then on top of it, a personal challenge was my son,
• 46:08
  my late husband, died in my son's arms.
• 46:10
  He was trying to revive him. So my son went down a very
• 46:13
  scary, dark, dark path for, yeah, a period of a few years.
• 46:18
  So I had gotten laid off. And then I think 2 weeks later,
• 46:22
  I ended up doing an intervention and he went in and got help.
• 46:24
  And he's like 4 1/2 years sober and doing phenomenal.
• 46:26
  But there was a lot going on at that time.
• 46:28
  You know, where you just. Yeah, it was heavy, but so those
• 46:32
  were pretty, Yeah, pivotal times, but also just knowing you
• 46:36
  can kind of get through anything.
• 46:37
  So I ended up just starting my own firm with somebody that I've
• 46:40
  worked with in the past and thought I'm just going to hang
• 46:43
  out here till I figure out that the dust settled in the business
• 46:46
  and staffing and it just worked out.
• 46:48
  So I just did direct hire, you know, placing people across the
• 46:51
  country. It was fun for the first year.
• 46:55
  And then I didn't like it. It felt very isolating, like I
• 46:58
  was this sole proprietary. It just wasn't enough, not
• 47:01
  enough people, interaction, not building enough.
• 47:03
  And that's why I'm like, I'm going to get back in.
• 47:05
  And it just worked out with Athena.
• 47:07
  Yeah. And so, wow.
• 47:09
  Yeah, there was a lot more going on there.
• 47:13
  And so after this women's retreat, what did you notice?
• 47:17
  How did things change? Was there still a lot of
• 47:20
  emotional release and healing to be done?
• 47:22
  Did you feel like a giant? Yeah, it took a while.
• 47:24
  It's, I think it was even after that, probably some healing and
• 47:27
  things and I think just, I just felt like I could really breathe
• 47:31
  and be more present personally in my life too.
• 47:35
  So like with my boys and my, you know what I mean?
• 47:37
  It just, I think it was just good.
• 47:39
  I needed a reset and I needed a place where I could let that go,
• 47:44
  you know? Yeah.
• 47:47
  I'm curious to hear it from you because you would have a a
• 47:50
  special perspective on this. I talked to a lot of business
• 47:52
  leaders who, you know, describe what's still a very tight labor
• 47:56
  market. And so they have trouble
• 47:58
  recruiting folks. They have trouble holding on to
• 48:01
  the good folks that they have. What advice would you give to
• 48:05
  employers? What is the single biggest thing
• 48:09
  that they can do to improve their recruiting or to improve
• 48:14
  their retention of the good folks that they have?
• 48:17
  Yeah, it's probably not a single thing.
• 48:20
  I think it's probably a few things.
• 48:21
  I think, you know, to start, I think employers and they
• 48:25
  probably I think it's happening more and more, but they really
• 48:27
  need to think about their employer brand kind of what's
• 48:30
  the face of the company outward, you know, the candidates might
• 48:32
  know of and how are they promoting the company.
• 48:35
  So I think having a positive employer brand that's going to
• 48:39
  attract people is always helpful.
• 48:41
  But then even just starting from, you know, when the
• 48:44
  candidate is hired, being super clear about expectations, having
• 48:48
  a structured onboarding program that orientates them to not just
• 48:52
  their role, but the different companies, you know, and
• 48:55
  departments within an organization.
• 48:58
  And I think mixing in there, getting to know them, companies
• 49:01
  need to do more of that because the reality is, and some people
• 49:04
  will say it's the earlier generations, but everybody wants
• 49:07
  to know you care, right? I mean they, so I think getting
• 49:10
  to know the person makes a difference.
• 49:13
  And people don't want to be a number.
• 49:14
  They don't want to be. They don't want to be a butt in
• 49:17
  the seat. So you know you want to.
• 49:19
  So I think it's getting to know them is probably the biggest
• 49:22
  advice I could give. What do you see as the biggest
• 49:25
  reason why an employee chooses to change jobs?
• 49:30
  What we see there could be lots of reasons, right?
• 49:32
  It could be culture, something significant could be happening
• 49:34
  to the company. But the primary reason, the
• 49:39
  majority of the time, it's not the company they're leaving,
• 49:42
  they're leaving their manager. It's usually leadership straight
• 49:46
  up. I mean, you know, they may
• 49:48
  really like the people that maybe are above or the manager
• 49:51
  reports to, But if they don't like whoever's impacting them
• 49:56
  the most, you know, day-to-day, and, and if they don't respect
• 50:00
  them or feel like they can learn from them, or if that person's
• 50:03
  not relying, you know, any of those issues will be reason.
• 50:05
  That is the biggest reason. The second biggest reason would
• 50:09
  usually be career advancement. And then money's probably the
• 50:12
  last. Money's not as high up as you
• 50:14
  would think. Yeah.
• 50:16
  That is surprising. Yeah.
• 50:18
  Let me shift gears here, Peggy, and curious to hear maybe a fun
• 50:22
  or interesting fact about you that most people wouldn't know.
• 50:26
  Oh my gosh, a fun or interesting fact?
• 50:30
  A fun or I have a huge family. I'm one of six kids I've got, I
• 50:37
  think, how many do you know? 2020 nieces and nephews, which
• 50:42
  are awesome, which I love. I love big families, right.
• 50:44
  I also started a 501C for women and a nonprofit.
• 50:51
  Yeah. So it's a Business Network and I
• 50:53
  don't know if you're familiar with Servite High School.
• 50:56
  Have you heard of Servite? It's an old boys Catholic school
• 50:58
  out here in Orange County in Anaheim.
• 51:00
  My late husband had gone my, my boys.
• 51:03
  Anyways, it's a it's a, it's a school that has a leadership
• 51:05
  program that's known across the country.
• 51:08
  It's a formation program where they form young men.
• 51:10
  They've tried to form them into men basically.
• 51:12
  But through the years, my boys going there, I was involved in
• 51:18
  different things, right? I was on president of the board.
• 51:20
  I different activities and things.
• 51:22
  Fundraisers would meet these incredible women that I was so
• 51:25
  impressed with, but we never talked about our work like what
• 51:28
  we did for a living. I always say it's like a
• 51:30
  Catholic guilt thing or something.
• 51:32
  I don't know. But but I didn't, I would just
• 51:34
  we would focus on the event. We'd focus on our kids.
• 51:36
  So I started to when I got laid off, I was like, gosh, who am I
• 51:39
  going to network with for business?
• 51:41
  Because my role in staffing industry, I only was a recruiter
• 51:45
  for eight months. They took me off the recruiting
• 51:48
  desk, put me in sales and then leadership.
• 51:50
  And so I hadn't worked a desk the actual job since 1988.
• 51:56
  So here I am, laid off. And of course I know I can do
• 51:57
  it. I train people, I know it.
• 51:59
  So I thought. So I went into the servite their
• 52:02
  dancement office and just pitched this idea of a network
• 52:04
  to keep the alumnums engaged. But also.
• 52:07
  To the alumnums. Yeah, the alumnum moms.
• 52:10
  Yeah, like alumnum. So, yeah.
• 52:12
  So what we did is, yeah, just put this thing out, put a board
• 52:16
  together. Yeah.
• 52:16
  Now it's growing and it's amazing.
• 52:17
  We do it. There's an event every month.
• 52:19
  We just had someone speak helping us develop our elevator
• 52:22
  pitch, and then we took LinkedIn profile shots.
• 52:24
  We do things on negotiating, but it's basically this intentional
• 52:29
  network where we are making an effort to find out what
• 52:31
  everybody does for a living. What's your ideal client?
• 52:34
  You know, how we can help each other, basically how we can
• 52:37
  serve each other rather than doing what I thought it was
• 52:41
  going to have to do when I went to a lead meeting with a network
• 52:47
  and they are telling you, you know, come back next month with
• 52:49
  three leads for the people on your right and left.
• 52:51
  And I'm like, no way. I don't know them.
• 52:53
  And you're like, no. So this was like, this was my
• 52:56
  way of like, OK, let's do these women.
• 52:58
  We have shared values. We know if they'd sent their
• 53:00
  kids here, we have some similar values, but I've also seen these
• 53:03
  incredible women and my, my gosh, the the surgeon general
• 53:08
  for California is in the network.
• 53:11
  I mean, like we've got some great people, CEO of great like
• 53:13
  hospitals, like just a variety of people.
• 53:15
  And it's become this really cool women's group that is, I feel
• 53:20
  like supporting kind of the total woman, you know, not just
• 53:24
  in your business, but even we do a spiritual thing.
• 53:27
  We do just really, how can we be the best version of ourselves by
• 53:30
  lifting each other up? But it's also still being women.
• 53:33
  Like we don't need to pretend. Let's be women.
• 53:35
  Like we bring something to the workplace that's unique.
• 53:38
  So. Yeah.
• 53:40
  So that's something really. I said that's a fun fact that I.
• 53:42
  You've mentioned this idea of, of women in business a couple of
• 53:46
  times. And so I kind of want to pull at
• 53:47
  this thread a little bit as man, like, obviously I know my
• 53:50
  experience of, of moving through the business world.
• 53:55
  How do you feel it's different for a woman, a successful woman
• 54:00
  in a professional position than I mean, enlighten me?
• 54:03
  Like what? What am I not experience?
• 54:06
  You're seeing that that you're going through.
• 54:08
  Yeah. And I don't know that I'm going
• 54:10
  through like I don't feel it at all, right.
• 54:12
  I personally do not feel at all, I would say earlier in my career
• 54:17
  the males, they just kind of would dominate.
• 54:19
  They would dominate meetings. There would be, you know, I've
• 54:22
  been part of company where you know, they were always kind of
• 54:24
  referenced. They were just referenced more.
• 54:27
  They were their input seemed to be weighing out a little bit
• 54:29
  more. And then there was a wage gap.
• 54:31
  There was always like a 13 to 15% wage gap, which people
• 54:35
  still, you know, I don't think you know, the new law to where
• 54:38
  people now when you interview them, you can't ask them what
• 54:41
  they made before. And that is really in an effort
• 54:45
  to to help the wage gap between men and women, etcetera.
• 54:48
  So that's something that's been put in place that's been very
• 54:51
  helpful with that. And then I think it just it
• 54:54
  really comes down to culture and I think it all starts from the
• 54:57
  top, right? So to get it's all it depends,
• 55:01
  you know, the culture I think that appreciates, you know, men
• 55:04
  and women, right? I think, you know, that's you
• 55:06
  respect everybody. So I don't, I personally can't
• 55:10
  relate to it the latter part of my career at all, but I would
• 55:13
  say the earlier part of my career and some women will, you
• 55:17
  know, some women will think they got, you know, passed up for
• 55:19
  things over a male, you know, oh, he goes golfing with the CEO
• 55:24
  or, you know, whatever it is. But personally, I this industry
• 55:30
  actually has quite a few, it's more female dominated.
• 55:32
  So I don't feel like it's that big of an issue in our industry.
• 55:35
  I really don't. You feel right at home most of
• 55:37
  the time I do, especially now, later in your career.
• 55:40
  Yes, yeah, for. Sure, you said something
• 55:42
  interesting. I didn't realize that you can't
• 55:43
  ask people what they made at their existing or their previous
• 55:46
  job. No, you can't.
• 55:47
  That's been in play for probably four years now, maybe 5.
• 55:51
  But you used to be able to, which always kind of would help
• 55:53
  you, right? But now, yeah, they don't do it
• 55:56
  at all. And I think it's great.
• 55:57
  It's it's it's helpful for the candidate by far, yeah.
• 56:00
  Any specific books or mentors that have been helpful for you
• 56:03
  and your career? Books or mentors?
• 56:08
  I had a mentor at my very first job, David Lewis, and a super
• 56:13
  grateful for him to this day. He really gave me a great
• 56:15
  foundation, kind of took me under his wing.
• 56:19
  And one of the biggest gifts I think that he shared with me was
• 56:22
  just the power of goal setting and writing down your goals,
• 56:25
  right? That was something that I just,
• 56:28
  he got me, you know, and I just keep doing it and that's been
• 56:30
  helpful for me. So he's someone total stand out
• 56:33
  for me. Books I really like What is
• 56:37
  Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In is good.
• 56:40
  I'll read periodic business books, but I I'd like to listen
• 56:43
  to podcasts probably even more. What?
• 56:45
  Are some of your favorite podcasts?
• 56:47
  Favorite podcasts? Oh, they're all they're well,
• 56:50
  they're not really businessy. That's OK.
• 56:53
  Say that, Is it really? Oh.
• 56:54
  Yeah. Do I?
• 56:55
  Do I dare say it So I'll listen to news ones I try to listen to.
• 57:00
  I like Megyn Kelly that's more political right, but I like her
• 57:05
  reporting. It's a different reporting.
• 57:07
  Unbiased is a podcast I listen to everyday.
• 57:09
  I don't know if you're unbiased. It's not just political news.
• 57:12
  She's excellent. She's an attorney, young
• 57:14
  attorney and just gives it straight.
• 57:16
  That's probably something something personal like that's
• 57:19
  all I want right with news is I just want the facts so those.
• 57:23
  Are so hard to find anymore. I know, that's I know.
• 57:27
  What you have to do is you have to research like you have to
• 57:29
  Fact Check the Fact Check companies and see who's.
• 57:33
  I took a journalism class in high school, and I thought I was
• 57:36
  a good writer back then. And I would turn in some of my
• 57:38
  first articles, and they were all marked up in red ink because
• 57:41
  I was introducing my opinion, my thought.
• 57:45
  And it's like, you can't do that.
• 57:46
  If you want to, you know, introduce a point of view, you
• 57:50
  have to get an outside party that you can quote.
• 57:52
  Like that's what journalism used to be.
• 57:54
  And it's. It's wildly different now.
• 57:57
  Yeah. No, it is.
• 57:59
  So I've got one more question for you, Peggy, but before I ask
• 58:02
  it, I want to do 2 things. First, if you're listening today
• 58:05
  and you like today's content, please hit the like, subscribe
• 58:08
  or Share button on your favorite podcast app.
• 58:10
  Also, I want to let people know the best way to get in touch
• 58:13
  with you. Peggy, what would that be?
• 58:15
  You know what? I have a really long e-mail.
• 58:19
  I would say honestly the best way is probably a cell phone.
• 58:21
  Believe it or not, text me is the very best way.
• 58:25
  So should I give my number? If you're comfortable with it.
• 58:27
  I am absolutely so 714-376-5182 and.
• 58:35
  We can also point people to the website which is.
• 58:37
  A Oh, that would be great. Yeah.
• 58:39
  It's Athena Finance and accounting.com.
• 58:41
  Yeah. So last question for you, I'm
• 58:44
  kind of curious, how do you see your industry evolving in the
• 58:47
  next few years? What do you think the big
• 58:49
  changes are that are coming? Big change.
• 58:52
  I mean, I believe companies will be more and more using more
• 58:57
  offshore for some of the activities in recruiting that
• 59:01
  are more administrative. So for example, whether you're
• 59:05
  researching companies or sourcing candidates, you know, a
• 59:10
  lot of it it's, I mean, you have to have an eye for certain
• 59:12
  things, but it's pretty laborious and it can be very
• 59:15
  administrative, right? So those I see them like a lot
• 59:18
  of that going offshore for recruiting and then keeping your
• 59:21
  recruiters, the ones let them be client facing candidate face to
• 59:25
  face. I see that happening, I think
• 59:27
  more and more. And then AI, who knows what AI,
• 59:32
  right? Who knows?
• 59:35
  It'll be fun to to see how that rolls, yeah.
• 59:38
  It will and you know, and you just gotta, I think you have to
• 59:40
  be careful with it. I think we use it as a tool.
• 59:43
  We do not rely on it, but we'll use it as a tool and it's been
• 59:45
  helpful. We've also found some things
• 59:48
  where we had the Fact Check our AI guy, right or check.
• 59:51
  So you just, yeah, you still need to I think use your
• 59:54
  critical thinking skills, right. And that's something that I I
• 59:58
  really encourage with my team is them bringing.
• 1:00:01
  Bring your, bring your great big brains to the table because
• 1:00:04
  they're all super bright, but also bring themselves their
• 1:00:07
  personality like they're very, they all have the ability to
• 1:00:11
  build high trust relationships and pretty quickly to where you
• 1:00:15
  feel comfortable. And yeah, so I encourage them to
• 1:00:19
  guys, just bring that personality, bring yourself to
• 1:00:21
  every call, every interaction, you know, personalize it.
• 1:00:24
  So yeah, love it, Peggy, I'm going to be the first one to
• 1:00:27
  thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us
• 1:00:30
  today. I really appreciate it.
• 1:00:32
  Yeah, you're welcome. You are welcome.
• 1:00:33
  Thank you. Folks, that's a wrap on another
• 1:00:35
  episode of the Inspired Stories podcast.
• 1:00:37
  Thanks for learning with us today.