Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Todd Nettleton: U.S. Believers Can Learn From Persecuted Christians

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Todd Nettleton: U.S. Believers Can Learn From Persecuted Christians · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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Hello, friends.
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Thank you so much for tuning in.
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We've got Todd Nettleton, voice of the martyrs with us, we'll get to him in just a minute.
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We want to thank you for your donations, we got one from South Dakota, we're still adding
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different states, we're doing our fundraiser until Christmas, I'll tell you more about
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that later.
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My book is now officially on Amazon, both the ebook and the paperback, if you want to
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check that out, assault on the image of God.
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The subtitle gives you a great idea of what it's about, understanding and responding to
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attacks on the Bible, human life, and the church.
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And I did write a little bit about persecution because that's what we're seeing more and
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more of today.
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So let's bring in Todd Nettleton, he's the chief of media relations for voice of the martyrs
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USA, he's also the host of VOM Radio, voice of the martyrs radio, he serves as a voice for
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persecuted Christians, inspiring US believers with the faithfulness of Christ's followers
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and 70 plus nations where they face persecution for just being a Christ follower.
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Todd Nettleton, welcome to World View Matters.
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Thanks so much, it's great to be with you.
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Good to see you brother, so this is a new platform we've talked a lot on the radio before,
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but now we have new people in the audience that may not be familiar with voice of the martyrs,
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persecution.com is the website, tell us how it was founded and how it all got started.
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The voice of the martyrs is a ministry to serve persecuted Christians.
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And one of the distinctives about our ministry is our founders were persecuted Christians.
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Pastor Richard Wormbrand and Sabina Wormbrand, the founder of the ministry, Pastor Wormbrand
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spent 14 years in prison and communist Romania because of his underground church work there.
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Sabina spent three years in prison herself.
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So both of them imprisoned long term for their Christian work.
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And when they came to the West, Pastor Wormbrand was actually ransomed out of Romania.
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So Christians in the West paid a ransom to the Romanian government to release him and
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to allow him to leave the country.
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Before he left, the secret police took him aside and said, Pastor Wormbrand, you're going
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to the West.
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You can talk about God, all you want.
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You can talk about the Bible, all you want.
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But don't talk about us, don't talk about what we did to you.
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Don't talk about the torture, don't talk about the prison cells.
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Pastor Wormbrand came to the West and did exactly what they told him not to do.
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He began to share, hey, I was in these prisons.
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For three years, he was in solitary confinement.
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And he talked about the torture, he talked about the hardship.
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But more importantly, he said, there are still pastors in those prisons.
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There are still Christians who are suffering behind their own curtain.
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And people like you and me, we hear that and we say, well, how do we help them?
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What do we do?
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That's really how the voice of the martyrs was founded was to be an answer to that question,
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to be a bridge between the church in hostile and restricted nations and the church in
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the free world, especially the United States.
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And so we are now serving, it's 1967 was when we started.
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So we're more than 50 years down the road.
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That's still what we're doing today.
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We're serving persecuted Christians in now more than 70 countries around the world.
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And we're telling their stories to help American Christians and other Christians in the
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free world know how we can pray for them, but also to be encouraged, to be encouraged
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by their faithfulness and their boldness and their unwillingness to compromise in spite
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of whatever hardships are in front of them.
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So that's the ministry that the OM does.
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And my part of that is the storytelling part is helping us know these stories and hear
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about what our brothers and sisters are going through.
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What I love about voice of the martyrs and the work that you do is for those of us
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in the West, particularly in America, with our Constitution and our religious freedoms.
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It gives us a perspective when we sometimes want to whine about being called haters or
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being discriminated against or being mocked because we're Christians.
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I mean, it is a form of persecution, but not anywhere near what these brothers and sisters
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and Christ around the world have experienced for many years.
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Todd, on the resources section at persecution.com, there's a couple DVDs, worm brand, which
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is the complete story, and then there's tortured for Christ, and then your book is there.
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And it's called When Faith Is For Bidden.
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We've talked about that on another outlet.
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I would love for you to just share what led you to put this book together because the
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subtitle at ToddNedleton.com is 40 days on the front lines with persecuted Christians.
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So these are personal stories from you that include pictures and details about people
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you've met through the years.
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Tell us a little bit more about that.
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Well, this year I celebrated my 25th anniversary at VOM.
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So I've been serving here now a little more than 25 years.
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And the best part of my job is when I get to go and sit down with persecuted Christians
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and just ask them questions and hear their stories.
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And when I come home from a trip like that invariably, as I'm sharing in my Sunday school
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classes, I'm sharing in my Bible study group or my church, someone will say, well, man,
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I sure wish I could go on a trip with you.
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This book is really the answer to that question.
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It is an invitation to you to, hey, come, come on a trip with me.
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Let's spend 40 days sitting down and hearing the stories of our persecuted brothers and
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sisters.
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And the promise is on day 41, your faith is going to look different than it did when
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we started that journey because you can't sit down with these brothers and sisters.
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You can't hear their stories.
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You can't see the smile on their face in spite of what they've gone through and not
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have an impact your own faith, not have an impact the way you open your Bible every day.
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The way you follow Jesus in your own life.
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And so that's really the goal of the book is to say, hey, come with me.
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Let's go spend 40 days meeting persecuted Christians.
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And these are 40 of the most impactful, the most powerful stories that I've heard over
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the last 25 years.
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And I want you to come with me.
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I want you to sit down and let's have a cup of tea.
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Let's have a cup of coffee with some of these brothers and sisters from around the world.
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I don't believe there are any coincidences as we are Christians and things happen in
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our lives for reasons.
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And I came across, earlier this year, I received the Africa no turning back the photo issue
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from VOM.
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And I happened to flip through it because it was in a stack of VOM and other nonprofits
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that I support.
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And I came across this story about Miriam.
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You're probably very, very familiar with this Todd.
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And I was really, you look at her face and these people are persecuted, but you see the
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joy the Lord in their eyes.
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That's why I love this photo issue for many reasons also to see how some of the, how they
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live in the conditions they live.
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But it talked about Miriam and her husband in Kenya and that the terrorists stole their
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livestock, burned their home.
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Can you share more about either some of the stories in here or about Miriam?
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You know, I think you hit on something in that the most surprising thing maybe as we go
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and sit down with persecuted Christians is the joy on their face.
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You, I mean, I remember going to sit down with a pastor in some of my first trips for
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voice to the martyrs.
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This was a pastor in China and he had been arrested numerous times in the months before
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I was going to be there.
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And you know, I had this picture in my mind of this, this poor depressed downtrodden pastor
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and, and how we were going to come from America and it would be so good for him that we
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would be there because we would be able to cheer him up because, you know, he'd been
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arrested.
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He'd been put in prison.
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He'd been rough, roughed up by the police and, and he was probably really discouraged
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and really depressed.
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And, and I had, like I say, in my mind, I'm thinking, isn't it great that we can come from
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America and cheer him up?
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And then we got there and he was completely unfazed by the persecution and had a smile on
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his face and was excited.
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Man, look at how my church is growing.
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Look at what God is doing in this village.
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Isn't this amazing?
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And I was so educational and instructive and humbling for me to be reminded.
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They don't need us to come and cheer them up.
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They are cheered up by seeing what God is doing.
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And I think for us here in America, our picture of them, if we're seeing them as depressed
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and downtrodden, we're wrong, that that is the wrong picture and you hit on that in,
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in that one story, but it is so true in, in so many stories around the world, we go
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and meet them and they are joyful and they are excited and they have a smile on their
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face and a sparkle in their eye because they have a front row seat to see what God is
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doing in their countries.
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And they don't need us to come and cheer them up at all.
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No.
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Talk to us Todd Nettleton about how America is really the anomaly in the world when
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it comes to how safe and comfortable I hate to use that word comfort in this context
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because Christians throughout the ages, martyrs and you read the New Testament, they were
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not comfortable.
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So talk to us about how we've kind of been spoiled and we have a wrong indication growing
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up in maybe the evangelical church or any church really in America of what true Christian
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persecution is or what really being a disciple, a follower of Jesus Christ really is when
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you live that out.
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It is a hard thing for us to understand and we, you know, we read Second Timothy and
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Paul says, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ will endure persecution.
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And it's like, wait, we haven't endured persecution, we, we aren't experiencing that
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most of us.
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And you know, there, there's a side of that that we should daily, we should thank the Lord
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that we experienced the freedoms that we have, what a, what an amazing blessing we have
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to live in a country where our religious freedom is protected.
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The other thing we should do is we should take advantage of that.
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You know, our brothers and sisters in hostile and restricted nations are talking to their
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neighbors about Jesus, even though it could get them beaten or it could get them ostracized
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or it could get them thrown in jail.
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Most American Christians are not talking to their neighbors about Jesus because they
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don't want to have an awkward conversation like it could be a little awkward for them.
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And so we need to remember the freedom that we have.
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We need to take advantage of the freedom that we have, but as you say, we are the anomaly,
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we are the minority among the body of Christ that, that we live in such protection and such
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freedom.
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And who knows if that will last forever for American Christians, I, I feel like as a,
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as a parent and now as a grandparent, I have an obligation to prepare the next generations
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to stand up under persecution because I don't know that we'll always be as free for
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the American church as it has been over the last 200 years.
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If it's not going to be that free, I hope my children, I hope my grandchildren are ready
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to stand strong for Christ in the midst of persecution.
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And frankly, one way to prepare them is to share the stories of those who are already
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going through persecution.
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They've been there.
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They've seen it and they can, we can learn from their example.
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We can learn from how they responded.
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And is it an interesting that in a lot of these restricted nations, the underground
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church and even the Christian church in general seems to be growing?
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I don't want to use the word thriving necessarily because different definitions of that, but
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growing because persecution causes the faith to grow.
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Talk a little bit about that Todd.
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You know, I love this and it is something that is interesting for us as American Christians.
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Why are those church growing?
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And one of the things I think about is one of the things that happens under persecution.
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If there is persecution, you only go to church if you really mean it.
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If it really is important to you and you want to be there to serve the Lord and to study
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the Bible and to gather with other believers, if you're there to make business connections
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or to meet girls or whatever other reason that that sometimes we do go to church in free
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nations in persecuted countries, it's too risky.
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You don't go if you don't really mean it.
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Well, if you have a church full of people who are there for the right reasons and really
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mean it and really want to serve the Lord, of course that church is going to grow.
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How could it not grow if that's all the people that are in the church?
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And so that's part of it is just having a church full of highly motivated people who
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really love the Lord and are willing to sacrifice in order to follow him.
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Of course that church is going to grow.
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The other thing that I think our persecuted brothers and sisters teach us, they consider
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the job of sharing the gospel to be every believer's job.
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We often in America think that's that's my pastor's job.
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He's a professional and in my job is maybe to get somebody to come with me to the church
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where my pastor is the one who's going to share the gospel with them.
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In China or Iran or other nations, every Christian says it's my job to share the gospel.
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They don't have a church building so they're not going to try to take you to a church building.
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They're going to share the gospel with you.
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We need a little bit of that in my church.
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We need a little bit of that in me and in you and in all those who are watching and listening
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right now, we need to have that attitude that I'm a messenger of the gospel.
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I can share the gospel.
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It's not just my pastor's job to do that.
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Amen, brother.
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So back to Todd Nelton, you were recently in North Africa.
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One thing you said in your email, Todd, was fascinating to me is that most persecution
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in North Africa is family-based rather than government-based.
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We don't hear that a lot.
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I mean, sometimes in Islamic nations, you hear that, but tell us more about that.
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It's that is interesting.
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It was very fascinating to me to be there and hear that and we, frankly, heard most of
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the time the police and the authorities will not get involved in a persecution situation.
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They will not be involved unless that person's family brings them into it.
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So if the family is persecuting the person and they feel like we're not making any progress
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here, they might call the police and then the police will get involved.
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Then there will be persecution from the authorities, but most of the persecution is driven
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by members of your own family.
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And we heard multiple stories.
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I'll never forget we talked to a pastor in North Africa.
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One of the young women in his congregation became a believer.
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She was away at university.
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She met a Christian.
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She became a believer in Christ.
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When she went home, she was excited and thrilled.
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She had met Jesus.
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She wanted other people to meet him too and she began to share.
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Man, I met Jesus.
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You need to meet him too.
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Her own mother told her.
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It would be better for me if you had told me you were a prostitute than you telling
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me that you're a Christian.
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It would bring less shame on our family if you were a prostitute than for you to be a
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Christian.
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And you know, I just think in many ways, I think that's harder to deal with than the police.
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Like if somebody you don't know comes in and attacks you, that's hard.
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But when it's your mom who's attacking you, your own mother says, man, I wish you were
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dead.
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Man, I wish you were a prostitute instead of a Christian, I don't know how hard that
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would be.
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I mean, it just is almost unfathomable to me.
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But that was the story we heard.
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And you know, it's interesting.
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One of the pastors we talked to, he said, you know, even though it's very, very difficult,
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we encourage our new believers to stay in their home with their families, even if there's
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persecution there.
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And I was like, well, you're leaving them in harm's way.
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Why would you do that?
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And he said, well, first in our culture, all of your opportunities are through family
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connections, your opportunity for education, your opportunity for jobs, your opportunity
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for to find a spouse, all of that happens through family relationships and family connections.
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So if you leave your family, you're cut off from all those opportunities.
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So that's, that's one reason.
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But the other reason he said, and I think this is exciting for us is he said, if we see
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that new believer stay with their family, even in hardship, even in persecution, if
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we see them stay in that household, typically within one year, we'll see at least one
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other member of that family come to faith because they see, look at the difference Jesus
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is making.
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Look at how my sister, look at how my brother's life has been changed by Jesus Christ.
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I want that too.
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I want to follow that too.
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But one of the things that I would encourage people to pray for and we were told this
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by several people in North Africa, pray that whole families will come to faith.
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Because if the first line of persecution is your family, but the whole family comes
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to faith at the same time, you've already crossed that barrier.
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And we heard a great story.
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Well, one of the pastors shared that, you know, because of this level of persecution
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and because it happens in the household, often people are very afraid to tell their
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family members, even their spouse, that they're a Christian.
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I'm not a Muslim anymore.
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I'm a Christian now.
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That's a scary conversation to have.
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And we heard the story of a husband and wife who both came to faith separately.
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They both had Christian friends who led them to faith in Christ, but they didn't tell
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each other.
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They were too afraid to tell their spouse.
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And they both got invited to the same Christian meeting.
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They both agreed to go and ran into each other at this Christian meeting.
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And the husband is like, what are you doing here?
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And the wife is like, what are you doing here?
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And it came out, well, I'm a follower of Jesus, well, I'm a follower of Jesus too.
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And it was such an amazing blessing and exciting thing for them to find out, wow, I never
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had to tell my spouse.
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I never crossed that, that fear barrier.
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Jesus brought them into his kingdom anyway.
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And just just one of the ways God is working in North Africa.
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That's an amazing story.
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Oh, my goodness.
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Can you imagine this, the shock when they see each other?
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What are you doing here?
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Todd, we, by the way, persecution.com is the website, friends, you can support voice
19:59
to the martyrs.
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First of all, pray for our family in Christ around the world that are suffering and they're
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legitimately suffering, unlike, you know, our idea of suffering in America.
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But Todd, I don't want to run out of time before we talk about Israel because since the
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recent attacks there by Hamas and the hatred and the anti-Semitism, but what's happening
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to Christians in Israel, you said there's some good gospel news from inside Gaza.
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Share that before we move on.
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There is some good news.
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And I know people who are watching this are praying for Israel.
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They're praying for what is happening right now.
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We have heard some reports of Christians in Gaza who have had their homes destroyed in
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the warfare that's going on.
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They are living in shelters where they are gathered with other people and they are sharing
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their faith.
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In fact, they are sharing their faith very boldly in this time of chaos and this time of
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warfare and this time where people are dying, people are thinking about eternity.
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They are able to share the gospel in a very real way and there is an openness there.
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There is a willingness to listen and to hear them out and to really consider the things
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of the kingdom.
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I also heard just this week, the story of a prayer meeting that happened that brought
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together several different people from different backgrounds and so there were prayers that
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were offered up in English and there were prayers to Jesus offered up in Hebrew and there
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were prayers offered up in Arabic all in this same room in the same prayer meeting, people
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from different backgrounds coming together and what a testimony of how God, God solves
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some of these problems.
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He brings people together from very different backgrounds and different nations and different
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sides of the conflict, but he is working and his spirit is working.
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But I would just encourage people to continue to pray that we have heard from Christians
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on both sides of the war that are asking, it's very interesting because it's almost the
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same prayer request.
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Pray that we can represent Jesus well in the midst of this conflict, in the midst of what's
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going on.
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We want to reach out to our neighbors.
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We want to show them what it looks like to have faith and to not be afraid of death and
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not be afraid of eternity.
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Pray that we can do that and like I say, we've had that prayer request both from Gaza and
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from the Israel side of Christians who say, we want to represent Jesus well, even during
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this conflict, even during this upheaval that's going on right now.
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And that should be our prayer as well.
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That's a great story, Todd.
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I'm just especially about the shelter and people sharing their faith, but that should
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be our prayer, whether you're an America or I know we have listeners from a few different
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countries, you know, that we would represent Jesus well in the days.
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We don't know how many days we have left.
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So, and we don't know how long America will be free, but that's for another conversation.
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Todd, back to your book when faith is forbidden.
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Is there one or two stories that you might want to just briefly touch on because we're
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running out of time that we're either maybe hard for you to write or maybe a surprising
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story that you didn't think would make it into the book?
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You know, there are so many amazing stories in the book, but one of the stories that always
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blesses.
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Every time I read it, it blesses me and it still blesses me, even I've read it numerous
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times now.
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It's a story of a man named Iman, Iman was from Iran, Iman was a drug addict.
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And Iman was also a very competitive person.
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In fact, when we sat down to hear his story, he said, now I want you to understand, I'm
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a very competitive person.
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I'm like, okay, I, yeah, okay, I get that.
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And he's like, no, no, no, you don't understand, I'm very competitive.
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He's like, when I was a drug addict, I wanted to use every drug and I wanted to use more
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of every drug than anyone else was using.
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So I could be the best drug addict.
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And he said, when I was a thief, I wanted to steal more than anyone else was stealing.
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And if someone else tried to steal something and got caught, I wanted to go steal it to
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show that I was a better thief than they were.
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And I'm like, okay, okay, I understand you're very competitive.
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But God rescued Iman from his drug addiction.
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He rescued him to the point that he completely took away the desire for drugs.
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And Iman has never struggled with that again.
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And he turned that competitive fire into I want to be the best follower of Christ that
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I can possibly be.
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And I want to tell every single person that I talk to about Jesus and about what he did
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for me and about how he healed me.
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And Iman began to do that.
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Because he lives in Iran and because he was boldly witnessing for Christ, he ended up in jail.
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But even in jail, God rescued him and God protected him and God put him in positions of
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influence and authority.
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It honestly, sitting listening to a story I was reminded of Joseph in prison in Egypt
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and how God raised him to a position of influence even inside the prison.
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Iman has a similar story and God worked when he went to court that the judge actually
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helped him fill out his documents.
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And it's like, why would an Islamic judge help a Christian fill out his court documents?
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Well, only God could make that happen.
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Only God could make that a reality.
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And so I'm sitting with Iman and I'm hearing his story and it's just like one miracle
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after another after another after another and I'm just blown away by how God rescued him.
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But then how God turned to me and took that same competitive nature that he'd always had
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and turned it in a kingdom direction like, hey, yeah, I'm competitive.
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I want to be the best disciple that Jesus has ever had.
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And that is Iman spirit.
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That's his attitude and I loved meeting him.
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I love sharing his story in the book.
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Wow, Todd, we're running out of time here.
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But I know when faith is forbidden, it's on my bookshelf.
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I want to encourage people to get it.
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Did they go to Todd Nettleton.com or persecution.com?
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Either one, they can get it either place.
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They can get it on Amazon if they want us to shop there.
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But we would love to give you a copy of the book.
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In fact, voice to the martyrs is giving away the book when you make a donation to VOM.
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So that's a great way to get it.
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But I hope it's a blessing to you and I love it.
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I love hearing from readers how God used these stories to encourage their faith.
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So Todd, it's so great to reconnect with you.
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And this goes by so fast, so Lord willing, after Christmas,
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we will talk to you.
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We'll see you again.
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But God bless your work at Voice of the martyrs.
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Hide a mat and everybody there at the staff.
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And you have a wonderful Christmas and we'll see you soon.
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Hopefully.
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Thank you so much.
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Merry Christmas.
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It's been great to be with you.
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Thanks, Todd.
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All right, guys, persecution.com.
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You can sign up for email updates.
26:45
You can get their monthly newsletter or magazine.
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And I really encourage that it really helps with such perspective.
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But tomorrow, you were going to hear from Saco Woods again,
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a former pastor, he's from Texas.
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And we're going to talk about equal justice under the law
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that has been given away to mob rule in America.
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Talk about the nightmare.
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The epitomizes the decline of America as we're seeing
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by what happened to a former police officer, Derek Chauvin.
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We're going to talk about that with Saco Woods tomorrow.
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So very important, but a heavy story and development on that.
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And guys, thank you again for your support and your prayers.
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God bless you.
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And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.