Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 6 - Navigating Business and Building Strong Cultures

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Ep. 6 - Navigating Business and Building Strong Cultures · Big Talk About Small Business

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Hey everybody, we're back here again for big talk about small business in beautiful Fayetteville and Rogers and Bentonville, all the communities that make up northwest Arkansas.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: We'll skip over like Lowell and Centerton.
0:19
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
0:20
SPEAKER_06: Bethel Heights.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: Bethel Heights, just a spot in the road.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: But uh the big the biggies here um are uh Fayetteville, Springdale, Rogers, and Bentonville.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: But um but anyway, it's great to be here in this bubble of our local economy with uh my buddy Eric Howerton.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: What's up, Mark?
0:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh everything.
0:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean busy, aren't you?
0:47
SPEAKER_01: Man, I am so busy.
0:48
SPEAKER_01: I know you are too, though.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:50
SPEAKER_03: But it's all fun stuff.
0:52
SPEAKER_03: It is fun stuff.
0:53
SPEAKER_03: It's fun.
0:54
SPEAKER_03: It's fun to watch what you've done and see it grow.
0:56
SPEAKER_03: It's fun to start some things up that are new.
0:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00
SPEAKER_03: Take a little risk here and there.
1:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02
SPEAKER_03: Keeps you alive.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: Let your blood pump.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: No kidding.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: I you you've got a big uh meeting of the white spider people right now, right?
1:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have uh a little bit over a hundred folks that uh that all came in.
1:13
SPEAKER_03: We have about a little bit more, a little less than half that are remote, right?
1:17
SPEAKER_03: That are in different parts of the U.S.
1:19
SPEAKER_03: And they all came in for a week and we call it team week.
1:22
SPEAKER_03: We just have a bunch of activities, everybody getting together and just keeping that culture strong, right?
1:27
SPEAKER_03: Which is nothing more than just people sticking together and talking and getting to know each other.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Having fun together.
1:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, figuring things out, you know, and it's been a it's been a fun time.
1:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I tell you, it's it it is fun to plan it.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: When you're planning it, you just keep stacking all these uh activities together, but it never fails like on day three, like man, you're just like you've been, you know.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: You're whipped.
1:51
SPEAKER_03: You're you are whipped, man.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: Whipped with fun.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:54
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's a good thing, man.
1:56
SPEAKER_03: But how about you?
1:56
SPEAKER_03: You got them a really cool thing going on, don't you?
2:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got several things.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, the big one that's really preoccupying my mind and attention right now is my involvement with Janice Motorcycles.
2:11
SPEAKER_01: And um Janice is a really unusual company.
2:14
SPEAKER_01: It's um uh it's got young owners and managers, you know, 35, 36, 37 years old.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Our founder, Richard Worsham, is an architect and a tremendously talented designer.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: And the company makes um small displacement, um, highly customized and very unique bikes that look like they came out of the 1920s.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're cool.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh we got one model that looks like it came out in maybe the late 60s, a a street scrambler version called the Griffin, but the Halcyon series of 250s and 450s, um, they all look like they came out of the twenties, and but they're completely unique designs.
2:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and um and you can customize them.
3:02
SPEAKER_03: I checked them on the site, like when you showed it to me.
3:04
SPEAKER_03: It was cool.
3:05
SPEAKER_03: I like built my own bike.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just sit there for hours on that bike configurator and I come up with different color combinations and all.
3:13
SPEAKER_01: And um, I think that's a big, big plus that we can do that, and and you know, people can get exactly what they want, and they're handmade in Goshen, Indiana.
3:22
SPEAKER_03: That's crazy.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Small shop?
3:24
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, it's not that small.
3:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've got a regular factory going over there.
3:29
SPEAKER_01: We're making about six bikes a week right now.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And uh, but in any case, um, so yeah, that's taking a lot of my time.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm really, you know, these guys asked me if I would help them get to the next level, and they have been a growing company.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: They're a profitable growing company, um, sort of classic in the sense of, you know, when you're in that business, your your RD and creating new stuff sucks up tons of capital and just building product and trying to deal with all the supply chain issues today.
4:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, the response of the company has been to make more and more of its own parts in the United States.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: So very little now comes from overseas, but nevertheless, um it's a it's you know, it's kind of new for me.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: I've never really been in a manufacturing business like this where you have so many different parts and pieces to think about and to have there when you want to go build something.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: But um, no, I'm I'm working with these guys.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're looking at at um you know, some legal organization changes, creation of a new board, um you know, new business plan, uh growth vision, yeah.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: That um it's gonna be very exciting.
4:48
SPEAKER_03: That's what it sounds.
4:49
SPEAKER_03: It sounds like that they have you coming in because you know what the next stages are, right?
4:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where you're trying to get to.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: And I mean, right when you said legal organization.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: That's you know, you you you learn, you can learn the hard way, like on the legal side, right?
5:05
SPEAKER_01: If you're not ready for that stuff as you kind of get bigger or get start getting what's your exit strategy is the attorneys all of a sudden become well, these attorneys, I I tell you, they bug the the absolute hell out of me absolutely yeah when they just put everybody in an LLC right off the bat, and they don't really think about what the long-term ramifications are of that if you need to change ownership or add ownership.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: And um, I do plan on on investing in this company.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: And so it's really sort of a dream job for me.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:37
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's like that you couldn't have I mean, you couldn't have created a job.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, better than this.
5:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: And so we're talking about a lot of exciting marketing things.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, the company has sold all of its product directly to the consumer without dealers.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: So we were thinking we wanted to build a dealer network of, you know, select number of dealers and in certain strategic locations.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: In fact, we did sign up a couple already, um, but we're also um doing some interesting um promotions with non-motorcycle related businesses.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: So for as example, we've got a bike sitting over at uh Walker Brothers Clothiers right now in Fayetteville, um, with my buddy John Cole.
6:20
SPEAKER_01: And um, because his audience, you know, they're people who appreciate quality, they're willing to pay the price for better design and and and uh materials and appreciate things of taste.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: And uh so we think that's that's a really interesting um So it's almost like you could you could have a whole bunch of showrooms all across the U.S.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we could you don't have to stock them with a bunch of inventory, you just show them off and they go to the site or they inquire and we have a QR code that takes you right to the order site.
6:52
SPEAKER_01: And so we're kicking around some ideas of of creating what we call a Janice design center.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Um you know, that has samples of various parts of the bike and different colors of fenders and fuel tanks and striping and leather and all the stuff that you get to pick out.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really cool.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Um, we haven't really decided exactly yet how we're gonna implement this.
7:14
SPEAKER_01: Airports are another possibility.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: That would be smart.
7:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so but everything, there's a cost associated with it.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And truthfully, right now, the problem really isn't demand.
7:24
SPEAKER_01: It's just trying to build stuff as fast as we can sell it.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's that's you know, we're gonna spend some time on some of these things.
7:33
SPEAKER_01: Next week I'm going there and uh really looking forward to it.
7:37
SPEAKER_01: In Indiana, you said Goshen, Indiana, yeah.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh of all places since we have a Goshen, Arkansas, where my daughter's horse farm is right near here.
7:47
SPEAKER_01: Most educated city in Arkansas, by the way, is Goshen.
7:50
SPEAKER_01: Goshen?
7:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was Cave Springs.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: Nope, it's Goshen.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: I just saw a report that I saw Goshen before, so I mean I'll I don't know.
7:58
SPEAKER_01: You live in Cave Springs.
7:59
SPEAKER_01: Maybe when you moved there, that it no you moved out of Cave Springs.
8:03
SPEAKER_01: What am I saying?
8:04
SPEAKER_01: You're in Rogers now.
8:06
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I have a little spot in Cave Springs.
8:08
SPEAKER_03: You did and I was researching its uh its demographic profile, right?
8:12
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's maybe it's past Goshen now.
8:15
SPEAKER_01: It might have surpassed Goshen.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, you're you're building quite a compound over there.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: It's impressive on the hill.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Every time I go to the airport, I'm gonna see Eric's place up there on the hill and go, there's Eric up there looking down on the rest of us plebs as we drive by in our old Fords.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: He's up on the hill.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe he'll hear me if I honk the horn.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I'll wave.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: Maybe, maybe, maybe I'll stop and do a smoky burnout and uh for you, right?
8:45
SPEAKER_03: Do some donuts right in the front, do some yard farming.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, the the uh Janice thing is it just it preoccupies my mind and I'm really excited about it.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Then we've got this mid-century modern glassware project, which one of your businesses is helping us out with.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: And um, we're gonna be selling mid-century modern drinking glasses in a wide variety of sizes and styles because you kind of, you know, I'm seeing a pattern of your creative vision and style.
9:16
SPEAKER_03: What's that?
9:16
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you know, they're kind of like you have this nostalgic sense to you.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: I I've always been uh drawn to the retro design.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: Like when they announced they were gonna bring out a new Volkswagen Beetle, I mean I ordered one two years before they came.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: The same thing with the new Bronco.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: When they announced the Mini Coopers, I wanted one of those.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: They're all retro designs.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, the the Thunderbird, when they brought that back, I I couldn't get one of those, but I wanted one of those too.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love, I do like retro, but you know, the great thing is that I like it when it's new, but it still harkens back to a past era.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: So anyway, um, yeah, the mid-century modern glassware, that's really exciting.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Um, my set now 17-year-old's um music career.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, that's another one.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: And you're marriage than that.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: You're her manager, basically.
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Know nothing about it, but you know, that never stopped either of us.
10:17
SPEAKER_03: No, it never did.
10:19
SPEAKER_03: But actually, it's even more exciting when you know nothing.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe you don't fall into the traps of thinking why you something won't work.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: Right.
10:27
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
10:28
SPEAKER_03: And then, yeah, exactly.
10:29
SPEAKER_03: I think you'll be a great music manager.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: I keep thinking, you know, like Michael Jackson's dad and like that.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: Thanks.
10:35
SPEAKER_03: Like Michael Jackson's dad.
10:38
SPEAKER_03: You're your or pretty like that just comes to my mind, like as you get into the music managing business.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh well, hopefully her life won't turn out like either of those stuff.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: But uh, it won't.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, no, she's got this new EP coming out.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: She writes all her own music, and it's fantastic.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And we've already had some some just, I mean, it it was so quick.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: We got interest from people who are really big in the music world, which really is exciting because I think a lot of people have a hard time breaking through.
11:12
SPEAKER_03: Well, the fact is she she writes her own lyrics, she writes her own music.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, she sings and she plays, right?
11:18
SPEAKER_03: Right?
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And she and records herself.
11:20
SPEAKER_01: She designs the album covers and stuff, too.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, she's really a talented artist.
11:26
SPEAKER_03: Full service freaking musician.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: She really is.
11:28
SPEAKER_03: That's the well, it makes the manager's job really easy.
11:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it does.
11:32
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, all you have to really do is just kind of like, you know, post it online.
11:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, don't fail at that, man.
11:39
SPEAKER_01: That'd be and write some checks.
11:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you gotta do that too.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: But no, we've had a lot of help, truthfully.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, her music teacher from the private school that she went to has been a fantastic resource.
11:54
SPEAKER_01: Never would have happened without his help.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: He knows her, has known her since she was a little kid.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: And um he's got a reason to kind of protect her, keep her away from the wolves of the music industry.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure there is in every industry, right?
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: And he knows how to work with her, and he's been a huge benefit.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and helped us get studio musicians and put songs together and stuff.
12:16
SPEAKER_01: So that's a big deal.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I mean, we've got big talk about small business.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
12:22
SPEAKER_03: That's working, that's rolling, man.
12:24
SPEAKER_03: It's rolling right along.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
12:26
SPEAKER_03: And it's gonna be wildly successful.
12:29
SPEAKER_03: Well, I I loved your um email the other day.
12:32
SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, when we start making money on this thing.
12:37
SPEAKER_03: I told Parker, you know, I was like, hey man, you know, I hope you got some game plans on Friday when Mark comes in for the next recordings, you know, of TikTok.
12:46
SPEAKER_03: It's time to start showing what's up.
12:48
SPEAKER_03: Time to go to the market.
12:50
SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm excited about this though, you know, because there's just so many, so many topics to hit on, a lot of folks with different experiences, you know, so many different perspectives people can take.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Um well, we've already had some good guests in here.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we have.
13:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's been fun.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: So tell me, um, what else are you involved in?
13:09
SPEAKER_03: So uh podcastvideos.com um is it is what it is, right?
13:16
SPEAKER_03: It is what it says it is.
13:17
SPEAKER_03: We were talking about that before the show.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: Just uh, you know, it's a name of a business that tells you exactly what it does.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: And so we basically what we're trying to do is streamline the process of creating podcast videos.
13:29
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
13:30
SPEAKER_03: And all like the little you know things that surround that.
13:32
SPEAKER_03: But what's really neat is that uh, you know, when you think about what we're doing here, you know, this is obviously a podcast, but the ways that a business can use this, I mean uh everything from new product releases to, you know, uh but what I think is gonna be interesting is like if you're a big corporation, like you know, for cultural reasons and communications, internal comms could be pretty neat too.
13:56
SPEAKER_03: Oh, there's just so many little things to it.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:00
SPEAKER_03: So we hope to really to and we're opening up the first, like so we're in our incubator studio as we're talking right now.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
14:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh, but in here in the next two or three months, we'll have a a full out pimped out version of a studio with like three different set scenes.
14:15
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be sweet, man.
14:16
SPEAKER_03: This place is pretty sweet, buddy.
14:18
SPEAKER_03: I mean, come on.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: But this one's gonna be really sweet.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: You just created this as your own little haven, little domain to come to, right?
14:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
14:26
SPEAKER_03: Because I wanted I wanted to be on the mic, just like you like to be on the mic.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
14:29
SPEAKER_03: And I want to be able to do it quickly and get it out, you know, and not worry about all the details.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: Because actually, like what you do when you're like you're you're the you're the host of this this big talk about small business.
14:42
SPEAKER_03: You demand and you come up with these ideas and to think about what like what are the bullet points you're gonna talk about in this episode?
14:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, that stuff you know becomes a little bit more work than I think people give it credit for.
14:57
SPEAKER_03: And if you're trying to do your if we were trying to do this or sales plus edit, plus publish, plus distribute, I mean all those things.
15:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, it takes a team.
15:04
SPEAKER_03: It does.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Any entrepreneurial venture takes a team of people.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: And when you see the people, you know, and they say, Well, I'm a solopreneur, I think that's a bullshit thing anyway, okay?
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Because how can you be a solopreneur if you're gonna build a business that has any value and it's gonna survive beyond you?
15:23
SPEAKER_01: No, it doesn't.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: The business is you, okay?
15:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's right.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: Anything worth doing takes a team of people, and you know, nobody's good at doing everything.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: No, and your ability to assemble this team and get them all going in one direction, that determines how successful you're gonna be.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: It's true, I think.
15:42
SPEAKER_03: And I've what I've enjoyed is working with the team, actually.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: You know, we got a few folks that are I mean, we got some really cool culture going on, and they're learning they're learning a lot of things.
15:54
SPEAKER_03: I'm learning a lot of things, but what's neat is it all everything that they do, like we're able to do multiple different types of businesses.
16:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, the earlier things sort of support each other.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: They do.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing, they relate to each other.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
16:06
SPEAKER_03: And so it's funny, you actually mentioned that in a few episodes ago about just like you don't have one bet.
16:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: You know, and we certainly don't with what we're doing.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: Right.
16:16
SPEAKER_03: Uh so that then we got a another little uh comp uh company that we're or media is really what we're creating now called doing business in Bentonville.
16:24
SPEAKER_03: And it's really about demystifying and advancing omnichannel retail.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: So there's a huge need out there, like people say omnichannel, omnichannel.
16:32
SPEAKER_03: Well, what does that mean?
16:33
SPEAKER_03: Everybody has a different perspective, and so we're actually trying to define it, but you can't define it in one statement.
16:39
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be through masses amounts of content that where like we basically you go there and in the and you can learn everything about whether it's technology, merchandising, marketing, supply chain, entrepreneurs, investors, community, government, all these folks are involved in that because it is new retail.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: Like I talk a lot to uh you know through White Spider, you know, we work in that that space on the just like the digital catalog side.
17:03
SPEAKER_03: But when I speak with suppliers and even Walmart, it's like you know, we need to all realize like we're in a retail revolution.
17:11
unknown: Right.
17:11
SPEAKER_03: That's being redefined.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: Completely redefined.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: And it's not and it's not even what Amazon has has created on the econ.
17:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, especially when you see things like um Walmart go into um immediate delivery with drones.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a big development right there.
17:29
SPEAKER_03: And you and you know, you got to take some stock in the fact that Walmart doesn't do anything just and execute things on a whim and just an idea.
17:37
SPEAKER_03: They have they have to think very strongly about anything that they launch.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: And so they're doing autonomous vans that you can see driving around.
17:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there you know, the light bulb should be clicking on for folks.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: Like, so how do you as a supplier brand support that in a new retail environment?
17:54
SPEAKER_03: Because you can't do what you used to do.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: Right.
17:56
SPEAKER_03: And you certainly can't even do what you're doing today.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: And you have to, but you just won't be doing very well when you probably decline over time, right?
18:04
SPEAKER_01: There you go.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you said it.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: They they've got some of these companies have so much inertia though, and they're so big and bureaucratic that they can't really respond to changes in the market.
18:14
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
18:14
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
18:15
SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, the cool news is over the last few years I have seen some really big brands start to do that.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: Like it's it's forced.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: Uh, because I mean, I mean, heck, I mean evolve or die.
18:26
SPEAKER_03: It man, it is.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: I would say, as everybody likes to say today, pivot.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: Pivot.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: I hate that word now.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: My wife's like, well, it's a perfectly good word.
18:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is, except I hate it hearing it so damn much.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: It's like you read like a single LinkedIn article and they say pivot five times in it.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Well, you're not gonna like my LinkedIn post about the pivoting.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Is that is that what it is?
18:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna tag you in it.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: Do that.
18:57
SPEAKER_01: But no, it is true though.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: These companies have to evolve, I'm sure.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
19:02
SPEAKER_01: You're helping them figure that out.
19:03
SPEAKER_03: They're forced to, you know, and what's doing it is is the it's really technology that's forcing it, and also the the informational, you know, what we call the systems or whatever you might want to call them, the connection speeds, right?
19:17
SPEAKER_03: The ability for the technology to be to be leveraged by the customer.
19:21
SPEAKER_03: And the customer's sitting there using everything that's coming their way for their convenience, and the retailers force it to evolve, and then you got the brands that have to come alongside.
19:29
SPEAKER_03: So that kind of the brand side is honestly like the the last step and all that stuff.
19:34
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: But there's a big gap between the brands, all the way to the customer, or really between the brands and the retailer, that which is what we're trying to help solve, which requires a community, requires entrepreneurs, requires investors, right, and everybody to start thinking this way.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: Because there's so much I mean, Arkansas, specifically Northwest Arkansas, and specifically Bentonville, should be the omni-channel retail center of the world.
19:59
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
20:00
SPEAKER_03: And we can't miss that.
20:01
SPEAKER_03: Walmart's doing it anyway, but they're sending a lot of money to Austin and New York and California.
20:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Let's keep that money here.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: Why wouldn't we?
20:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:09
SPEAKER_03: We should e we should be evolving.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: We should own that.
20:12
SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so that's our mission, right?
20:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_03: And uh we want to see that happen.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, so many people outside our area do not understand it.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I moved here from Boston originally, although I'm from Missouri, but when I moved here from Boston, everybody's like, Arkansas?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I go, it's really changed a lot.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: We've got a dentist in town, and we got a cement pond.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Got some shoes.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: I love being from Arkansas.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: I love it.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's it disarms people.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: They they don't realize they're like, oh, well, he's not gonna do nothing.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: And then you saw you flank them.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
20:48
SPEAKER_01: They you you just kind of sneak in under the radar and just shock them, surprise them.
20:52
unknown: That's right.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: But so yeah, that's so that's great.
20:56
SPEAKER_01: You're in you're involved in some really big stuff.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: I I know that when you left Zwai Group and you started um White Spider, yeah, or Zwike White as it was at the time, and you started White Spider, you said that you wanted to get involved with some of these consumer product companies and all.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh, geez, Eric, you know, that's gonna be so hard to break into.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: It was I mean, I I can remember having this conversation.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, are you sure?
21:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's gonna be hard to break into.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: You got all these companies, they're not based here, their marketing is done in places like New York and San Francisco and LA, and this is not a hotbed of you know of startup agencies trying to help exactly brands.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you did it.
21:38
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you made it happen.
21:40
SPEAKER_03: But um well, we found we found a niche.
21:43
SPEAKER_03: Or what do you call it?
21:44
SPEAKER_03: A niche.
21:45
SPEAKER_03: No, I call it a niche.
21:46
SPEAKER_03: A niche.
21:47
SPEAKER_03: So we found that niche, right?
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And and I do say potato though, too, and not potato.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: So I'd say potatoes.
21:54
SPEAKER_03: We're on the same page.
21:55
SPEAKER_03: But we found that and and I I did have uh a a really Successful uh guy tell me uh and and explain it really well.
22:05
SPEAKER_03: We went he goes, you didn't go a mile wide, inch deep, like a lot of the our competitors did, which was what most of the agencies and stuff were doing.
22:13
SPEAKER_03: We went a mile deep inch wide.
22:16
SPEAKER_03: Very niche service set and tech set.
22:20
SPEAKER_03: Right.
22:21
SPEAKER_03: With also a very niche uh customer base.
22:25
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
22:26
SPEAKER_03: It was all Walmart and it was all about digital catalog management.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: And those are the things they needed the most what they needed.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you think about it.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: And you know, and there was some risk to it because I mean the but you know, because the future had to unfold.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: Like we were always a little step ahead of the industry.
22:42
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, you know, we kept dogging it and and you know, it would just catch up a little bit with us.
22:46
SPEAKER_03: It still hasn't caught up to where we've been as far as our capabilities and our strengths, but but I mean it it's it's interesting.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: I think we're always like about a year and a half in advance.
22:55
SPEAKER_03: God love you.
22:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, before before the market starts going, oh, we actually do need that.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
23:00
SPEAKER_03: And then by the time they do, then we we're just sitting there with a with kind of like a net.
23:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, with the solution.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: We're a solutions provider.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
23:10
SPEAKER_03: With our solutions that we pivoted on.
23:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, everybody is a solution.
23:14
SPEAKER_03: Pivoting solutions.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: That's the other thing.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's a solutions provider.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, do you have anything for dry eye?
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Because I need some solution for that.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I came over your solutions providers.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: I yeah.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: This contact lens of mine over here is bugging me.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: That's a solution.
23:31
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: That's a I need a solution from contact lens solution.
23:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, anyway, um it's always good to poke fun at the terminology that just gets beaten into the ground.
23:43
SPEAKER_01: My kids are all saying sleigh now.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: If you had that, everything is sleigh.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: That's it's like that's sleigh or you slay.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: I can see you sleigh better than that's sleigh.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: But um anyway, that's the that's the big slay.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm gonna be cool and and you're really slay, Eric.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: Mark, that was a sleigh thing for you to sleigh.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, so no, there were a couple things though.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, it's great that you got all this stuff going on.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: You got your real estate projects, you got your your outdoor um uh uh what do we call it?
24:18
SPEAKER_01: Get outfitters, get outfitters, luxury um excursions.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: Maybe sometime we can do one of those related to motorcycles and provide um rental Genesis.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:31
SPEAKER_03: That's you know, I told you my wife won't let me ride a motorcycle, though.
24:35
SPEAKER_03: I told you that.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
24:38
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Can you believe I put that like an auto-recorded interview?
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Well, I I will say my first two spouses um had absolutely nothing to say about me riding motorcycles, but now that I'm on number three, um she got something to say about it?
24:55
SPEAKER_01: She's she's she doesn't really love them.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, but she doesn't mind little short excursions around, you know.
25:02
SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe maybe your wife can talk to my wife or me go on some short motorcycle excursions.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: That's sure.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: You can go around the block and come back.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: She's not the best one since she had to take me to the hospital after my accident in 2016 when I totaled a new thrux and 1200 in the first day as a very experienced rider.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, anyway.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Did somebody hit you?
25:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, kid pulled right out in front of me on Lafayette 20 feet ahead of me, and I hit him.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even fall off the bike, but I ruined my left hand, totaled the bike.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: See that right there?
25:35
SPEAKER_01: I can't make a fist over here now.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: Are you serious?
25:39
SPEAKER_01: So, anyway.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: How did you not come off the bike?
25:41
SPEAKER_01: What do you mean?
25:42
SPEAKER_01: Like you I just I was still on the bike.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: How does that happen?
25:46
SPEAKER_01: I I locked him up and I hit the guy, and I didn't fall off the bike.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I just crushed my hand in between the use these two fingers for the clutch over here, and the clutch lever between the car, the clutch lever and my handlebar just crushed those fingers.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Anyway, she had to take me to the hospital.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: She wasn't very happy, um, even though we weren't married at that time.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: But you could tell she cared about you at that moment.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: Of course I could.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: But she's always she's been a good friend for a long time.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: You know that.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: We all work together.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
26:15
SPEAKER_01: So, no, but so I mean, all these different things you're doing.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's very exciting.
26:22
SPEAKER_01: And and that's that's one of the great things about entrepreneurship.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: I think people don't understand.
26:27
SPEAKER_01: They think, oh, people do it so they can make a lot of money.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's the you do it because you've got things you're passionate about or problems you want to solve, things you can't find where you are.
26:39
SPEAKER_03: These are all, you know, so true, man.
26:41
SPEAKER_03: It's it is so true.
26:43
SPEAKER_03: Because I think Steve Jobs said it well, actually, right?
26:46
SPEAKER_03: Not to use him, overuse him like you know, some of the cle, you know, the words like solutions and such, because everybody uses him.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: But he did in his little speech that he was that his git they gave to the college, uh, was talking about you got to do something you love.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_03: Because it's but I loved his next part to it.
27:02
SPEAKER_03: He says, because it's so much damn work.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: And if you don't, if you don't have that behind you and what you're trying to, if it's about money, if it's money driven, like you're you're not gonna last very long, man.
27:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, you know, I was just thinking about that today.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And again, I'm sure some of our listeners would disagree with this.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: All right.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: And I won't say that you don't make trade-offs, but I will also say that all of the successful people I know are people who engage about 18 hours a day.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean that they're gonna always, you know, maybe there's a two or three hour delay sometimes, but they're on 18 hours a day.
27:41
SPEAKER_01: It's like one of the great things I like about Janice, and one of the reasons I'm really interested in it, aside from the fact that it's an unbelievable brand that has a cult following, okay, what's that worth?
27:53
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a lot, a lot, right?
27:56
SPEAKER_01: But the other thing is young management that is engaged seven days a week, 18 hours a day, yep, always thinking.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: And most successful people I know are like that.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: The ones who aren't successful are the ones that go, I'm, you know, it's five o'clock, quitting time, woo, you know, grab my lunchbox and go home.
28:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna think about work again till Monday.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
28:23
SPEAKER_01: Disengage.
28:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, disengage.
28:26
SPEAKER_01: It's it's bullshit.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: It's great.
28:29
SPEAKER_01: I understand the reason why people want to do it.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes you have to escape.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: You you do.
28:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I, you know, I find like out there cutting my lawn for six hours that it takes me to do it, I find that is a great time to disengage and and meditate or whatever.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: But um, but yeah, anyway, the engagement level is critical.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: And thinking about this stuff all the time, and the successful people I know who are entrepreneurs do that.
28:56
SPEAKER_01: Yep, you have to.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: But I there's a couple of things I wanted to talk about um today because they're pet peeves of mine.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: One of them is the obsession with the startup community, with raising capital, and a the obsession with those who want to measure and report on the success of our entrepreneurial ecosystem here in Northwest Arkansas and elsewhere, right?
29:26
SPEAKER_01: Using the metric of startup capital raised as their primary metric.
29:31
SPEAKER_03: What do you think of that?
29:32
SPEAKER_03: It's not a good idea.
29:33
SPEAKER_03: Uh preface it with we're not talking about there is no need for cot capital.
29:37
SPEAKER_03: Right.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: By any means.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm gonna be raising some capital soon for Janice, perhaps.
29:43
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
29:44
SPEAKER_01: To fund this growth.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: I get that.
29:46
SPEAKER_03: But especially to like aspiring entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: Because I think I first of all, my core belief is you're either are or you are not an entrepreneur.
29:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I understand that.
29:56
SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
29:56
SPEAKER_01: And but I think more people could be than are.
29:59
SPEAKER_03: Agreed.
30:00
SPEAKER_03: Like they don't, and I mean, I think there's a lot of people that don't realize that they are.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: Right?
30:04
SPEAKER_03: That that was my case when I started, I didn't even know what entrepreneur meant.
30:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: Like I just I found that out three years after, or four or five, and somebody said, Hey, so you're an entrepreneur.
30:14
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I don't know.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: Let me look that up.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: You know, I don't know what you mean.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: I was I'm just starting to trying to do something here.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: When I first started the company, Mark Zweigen associates became Zwag White and Zwike Group, I was sitting there by myself and I was lonely.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, if I grew this company, I'd have some other people to talk to.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm serious.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: There wasn't any just grand vision for it, you know, at that point in time.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: You're you were solving something.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: But I think, you know, to your point, like the the problem that we have is that we get we market to and uh gather together young folks that you know and entice them to the idea that hey, if you win this pitch, then there's money for you.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: And you can do your dream.
31:08
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: That you can get funding for your dream and become an entrepreneur in which and and in in the in the mark in the capital behind that marketing effort, there's a lot of reasons why that happens.
31:22
SPEAKER_03: You know, because you uh if you have successful people that have wealth and are investors, they're usually highly connected.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: There can be some benefits of the stuff.
31:33
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
31:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we're we're just talking about the while that while this is maybe not the best idea all the time, right?
31:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
31:39
SPEAKER_03: Or or really why it's it's it's not so good that it's the overwhelmingly the the biggest that's out in the market today.
31:49
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:50
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
31:51
SPEAKER_03: And and so these you know, next thing you know, like you have a bunch of folks that are maybe entrepreneurs or maybe not, that all they're doing is spend their time on how to build the perfect presentation.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, to raise capital.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: To raise capital.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: Instead of build the perfect product or service to sell to their ideal client or customer, right?
32:10
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that needs to be the focus in my mind.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: So it it distracts them right away, is your point.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: Yes, that is very much my point.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you as with firsthand experience, and I've done it, I've been through it a few times.
32:26
SPEAKER_03: So we didn't raise capital for White Spider, and but when we did get down in that road, it was the most distracting thing in our business for our top leadership.
32:36
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: Well, it but the other thing is though, when you did at that point, at least you're in the driver's seat.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
32:43
SPEAKER_01: Because you've got a proven, validated business model that you can say people spend money to get this from us.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
32:51
SPEAKER_01: And the other and now you're you're not in a totally different position where you don't have to give everything up in order to get it.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: That's another point, though.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: But again, that goes back on this whole idea of startup capital raised as a measurement of the success of our ecosystem.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we should be looking at capital raised by established companies, right?
33:14
SPEAKER_01: As a measurement.
33:16
SPEAKER_01: Or the value of companies that are sold that were in the area.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: Or the revenue of those companies, of growth companies, or the growth rate of those companies, or the employment of those companies.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: Those things to me are much more um important than startup capital raised.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: And beyond that, why just focus on startups, growth companies?
33:42
SPEAKER_01: They create a lot of jobs, right?
33:44
SPEAKER_01: They do.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: They do.
33:45
SPEAKER_01: And they make a lot of money.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: And and everything is dead on because I I mean, we were a very fast-growing and profitable company for for pretty much the entire for all the time that we were that was when was since we started, but there was never recognition on that.
34:06
unknown: Ever.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: Right.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: No, there's no recognition.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows it.
34:10
SPEAKER_03: Nobody knows it.
34:11
SPEAKER_03: Nobody really cares too much about it.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: Right.
34:13
SPEAKER_03: But over here on this other side, you have all this momentum and all this talk.
34:17
SPEAKER_03: And all this support from the ecosystem.
34:21
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:22
SPEAKER_03: About for no history ideas.
34:26
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: And it becomes like a little, like just a shark tank festival.
34:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:31
SPEAKER_03: And which is it's it's unfortunate because I can remember and and what it another thing that I think that could be a little damaging is that from the just the investment community, investor community themselves, to your point, like there's so much attention and then you get pulled into that versus maybe looking at some of these businesses that are running really well that are started right here.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:50
SPEAKER_03: By really great entrepreneurs that are sure that if you gave that.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: They're swapping it out.
34:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: And they're just growing.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: And you can have a great return on your capital if you invest it.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:00
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's the difference in venture capital and private equity.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean, it's those the private equity people put their money into established growing businesses, and the VCs are funding the startups.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: I think entrepreneurship's a lot more than startups.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: I think it's a lot more than raising capital.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, we need to be more focused on the business itself and doing things and validating that it works.
35:29
SPEAKER_01: And that takes me to my my second pet peeve is, you know, everything's about validation of the idea.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And you know what I'm talking about.
35:39
SPEAKER_01: And all the testing.
35:40
SPEAKER_01: We're supposed to test our hypothesis.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: I swear, I know this sounds terrible to my academic friends out there, and I got a lot of them.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: I work in the university, it's a great school, and I work with some very intelligent people and capable people.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I don't want to get crosswise with them.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: I've never done a hypothesis test for any business I started.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: Now I have created stuff and stuck it out in front of the market to see how they respond.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: That to me is the ultimate hypothesis test.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Let's how does the market respond to it?
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Does the market want it?
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Do they want to buy it?
36:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Now that's good.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: All right.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: Market doesn't like it, market doesn't buy it.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: That's bad.
36:22
SPEAKER_01: Better pivot.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Better, yeah.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: Pivot on this, buddy.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, but no, seriously, I think that's a really big um we need to encourage people to do more and in my mind, do things as early as you possibly can that will validate um your idea.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: And and again, though, I mean, and I hate to keep beating the dead horse, not everything's got to be a new idea.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's great if you got a new idea and you break through.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you've been very successful doing that, but that's like saying, I'm, you know, um, I'm growing up in the ghetto and I'm gonna be a pro basketball player.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: Or I'm gonna go to college and become a certified public accountant, which one's more likely to happen?
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: The CPA, yeah.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot more, it's a lot less risky.
37:16
SPEAKER_01: And there's for every pro basketball player, there's a lot more accountants or whatever, engineers or whatever it is.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And and so not everything involves doing something new.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: In fact, most things really don't.
37:29
SPEAKER_01: They're just a little differentiation or a little twist.
37:32
SPEAKER_03: So for our listeners, to go into a little bit more detail about the hypothesis and the theories.
37:37
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, so what does that look like to some of these young entrepreneurs that are that are going through that pathway?
37:46
SPEAKER_03: Like specifically, like what's the requirements?
37:48
SPEAKER_03: What's the exercise that they're undergoing?
37:50
SPEAKER_01: Well, they're they're they're trying to figure out whether or not their idea is any good.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, they're running it past people, yeah potential.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Advisors, right, potential customers, potential investors.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
38:05
SPEAKER_01: Once again, I go back to that to see if they're interested in it.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: Um so they they come to the table, they go to they do what they do.
38:14
SPEAKER_03: They seek an investment and they're they go and they get feedback from that investment conversation, and they go to the next one.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:22
SPEAKER_03: And then just kind of you ping-pong back, and after all these different presentations, you feel like you have the ultimate business idea and it's fail-proof.
38:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then you throw and then if you actually start the business, they throw a lot of money into it, which is another problem because it doesn't create the discipline that it takes to have a successful going concern post um startup.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's always been my thing too, I think, is if, you know, if you know what it's like.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: I mean, when you're just like, God, I gotta, you know, I gotta get my bills out immediately so I can get some cash in here immediately so I can pay everybody and pay my rent and my insurance or whatever.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:04
SPEAKER_01: It's just that kind of discipline, that sense of urgency only comes from being undercapitalized.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: If we just started out with big chunks of money, you know, it's kind of interesting too.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: I've seen studies, and not to say this is a prediction for either you or me, although to a certain extent I I could say I've lived this out.
39:25
SPEAKER_01: Entrepreneurs generally do not do as well with their second venture as they do their first.
39:30
SPEAKER_01: Did you know that?
39:31
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know that.
39:31
SPEAKER_01: No.
39:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think one of the reasons is they've got too much money.
39:36
SPEAKER_01: It's not that important.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not it's not like do or die survival time.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
39:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: As an entrepreneur, I mean I've lived uh you know, I heard one of my favorite quotes, and I always bring like I always have these things, Mark, I apologize.
39:52
SPEAKER_03: That's all right, no need.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: But one of my favorite quotes that I've that I've heard is is when my back's against is in the corner, I fight like hell.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: That's when the the the truth of yourself and your tenacity, your will, your determination, you know, all that stuff, and then you your creative thinking, your adjusting, your adaptation, right?
40:15
SPEAKER_03: Figure shit out, man.
40:16
SPEAKER_03: Like that's the that's when you like when you are in those spots and you have nowhere to turn.
40:21
SPEAKER_03: Well, some people figure it out, some people give it up.
40:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's not a good quality.
40:26
SPEAKER_03: But if you do have dollars, yeah, like you're not against the corner.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:30
SPEAKER_03: So you're not in it, like in engaged 18 hours, like you're talking about.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: It's true.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: It is true, man.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: It really is.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit about back on on uh startups.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: Um what do you think are the qualities that people really need to be successful?
40:50
SPEAKER_01: You say they're either entrepreneurs or they're not.
40:52
SPEAKER_01: So what do they need to be successful as a startup?
40:56
SPEAKER_01: What what are what do they need?
40:57
SPEAKER_03: Man, I think the number one thing is is like uh can you see a market need?
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, can you like legitimately can you see something that that must be fixed?
41:10
SPEAKER_03: Because you can you can see the low ceiling for the market.
41:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not necessarily I mean it it doesn't have to be like something brand new like you're talking about.
41:18
SPEAKER_03: Like it could be somebody, it could be a um just a a certain sector of the market that is paying a certain price uh with with a with only a certain select few vendors, but that whole price should be a lot less so that there can be more done or it's not scaling or whatever it might be.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: So I think you have to be able to see that.
41:38
SPEAKER_03: And how do you see those things?
41:40
SPEAKER_03: Um man, I uh honestly, my experience has been kind of impassing in a way.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
41:45
SPEAKER_03: Like I don't I don't go out and look for ideas or look for market needs.
41:50
SPEAKER_03: I actually kind of bump across them.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: Because you're in the market, because you're studying it, because you're working in it.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Because I'm living my life.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: So I mean, in all honesty.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: You see your own problems and you figure, oh gosh, these must be problems other people have.
42:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Valid.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh absolutely.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: I mean, hell, there's I can't tell you how many uh like market needs I see if I go get a cup of coffee.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: No.
42:13
SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
42:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
42:14
SPEAKER_03: It's just, or you know, or you can be driving or you can be or traveling or whatever it might be, and you're just like, man, there needs something needs to be done about that.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: Now there's yeah, I got a list of ideas that I love to fix, but then you have to kind of start prioritizing.
42:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, can't do everything.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: Can't do everything.
42:30
SPEAKER_03: And so, and then I think that it's the one that I mean, and by happenstance, like I've in my experience at least, like I've I picked up on one of them and I became passionate about fixing that idea.
42:40
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what what's necessarily driving that, but I figured but a lot of times it's like I don't think that anybody else is gonna get it done, and even if they tried, they wouldn't do it right.
42:50
SPEAKER_03: Right, you know, and so I somebody needs to get this shit done, so it's gonna be me that's gonna do it, right?
42:55
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: And then then I think the next thing, honestly, that you need to have is like the word no just encourages you.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: You know, I mean I I remember I'll show you.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, dude.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: You walk away, right?
43:06
SPEAKER_03: Like you're not you're not demoralized by somebody's perspective.
43:10
SPEAKER_03: Now, it does now there's absolutely many times I wish I would have taken some advice back in the day, you know, and applied certain things.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: But no, in no case can I recall of saying I wish I wouldn't have done what I did.
43:23
SPEAKER_03: And even if even if it was one of my businesses that failed.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: But I do think we're as it relates to no, if you're going to be successful, you have to be able to say no to some stuff.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, for sure.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, part of it is just the liberation.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just like when I got out of being a vistage chair, it just freed up so much mental capacity that I had five new things within a month going.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
43:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: Because I loved my members and all that.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: I I there were other aspects of it I didn't care for.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: And and just the the time it took.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: But you got to say no to some stuff.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: stuff yeah you do to to keep your mind free so you can work on these problems or they're not always a problem it you know I think some and and they're not always market needs as much as they're market wants.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
44:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know sure doesn't have to be a need it could just be a want.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah it could be yeah absolutely I mean like for example in the motorcycle world nobody needs a motorcycle right I mean it's it's just it's a toy that's all it is okay but people want them you know and if you look at Janice it's such a great example of what you were saying that so there's custom bike makers they all focus on big heavy big displacement bikes everybody nobody did a custom bike that's smaller and lighter and easier to deal with okay it there Janice is the only provider of that.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: It's like a mess man yeah it's just a complete gap in the market.
44:55
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's a good point though is like I think an entrepreneur like one of the things you have to be able to is see those types of gaps, right?
45:02
SPEAKER_03: I mean you just start adding it up and you kind of look around and you don't have to do a freaking six month freaking focus group case study with all that shit.
45:10
SPEAKER_03: Just like can you sell it?
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Let's gather all these writers together and ask them.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: First off we sell motorcycles to people who never had a motorcycle so I'd already be missing right there right which which is kind of a good point like to our to our initial conversation about these exercises that people will go through.
45:25
SPEAKER_03: If you it's like anything it's like being in a relationship if I'm if I think if I don't my trust with with my partner is not there and I wanted to dig in and try to prove out something I think is not true right I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna build a case for myself.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
45:42
SPEAKER_03: You know and and it's just gonna be poisonous to me in the same way that it is my business if I if I said that there's there's a market gap and if I would have gone out and researched any of those to the to the gills and gone to a bunch of investors like it would have never gotten off the ground.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: Never gotten off the ground because there will always be a competitor there's always be a threat.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: Right.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh well what are you gonna do you know a good big a good uh response from an investment team will be like well that's a great idea mark about this Janice motorcycle but what are you gonna do when Harley Davidson up into sides one day to start their own little light bike Mark they're gonna just annihilate you.
46:19
SPEAKER_03: How are you gonna defend on that?
46:20
SPEAKER_03: Well I have no freaking answer for you on that.
46:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
46:23
SPEAKER_03: Well you know what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna beat them to the freaking punch.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: Well left rod hook them and just be a lot more scrappy in the marketing and just create a a following and and service that they can't do as a big company.
46:37
SPEAKER_01: Exactly like we have had people that have a problem with their motorcycle and Janice fli somebody out there to fix it even if it's like the dumbest little thing you know a lot of it it is sort of a problem in the business model because neophytes don't know anything.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah they're trying to create a lot of video training and other ways to serve people like the new 450 they they can actually download from the computer on the bike and send that um file to Janice to be tell them what's wrong.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: But yeah I I you're so right.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean you can't answer that question because you don't know what they're gonna do.
47:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah no one really knows man no one really knows the true answer in the future you know and I think it's up to the entrepreneur to just like there's a I think there's a sixth sense of just knowing that it's that it can be done right and you just kind of go at it.
47:31
SPEAKER_03: And then you know I think that tactically speaking and what I would always advise is like unless you have this skill set and even if you do I I mean you may want to you know remove yourself from it and be the responsible but you know we talked about earlier legal accounting I know uh HR type stuff.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: It's stuff's important and somebody's got to be doing it.
47:52
SPEAKER_03: Somebody's got to be doing it and you need to find a partner for that stuff.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: Like it will screw you in 30 days man.
47:59
SPEAKER_01: See that's the that is so true because I think a lot of entrepreneurs they may be very creative and they may be very good at selling stuff.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay but they're not always so good on these sort of longer term oh man sort of backend y systems and processes that really will define whether or not you're ultimately going to be successful.
48:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
48:19
SPEAKER_03: Again it takes a team it does man I mean you don't want to be the person sitting behind QuickBooks learning the software for 10 hours so that you can send out I don't send out invoices.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: I don't either I mean I I my first business I ever had I tried doing everything myself and it just I mean did it did nothing but waste my time stressed me out right and I end up losing a lot of money because of it.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean because you just can't so I think a a good entrepreneur would go find their team and partner with people.
48:47
SPEAKER_03: Cut deals you know like I mean make the promises that you got to make you know and stick with them.
48:52
SPEAKER_03: That's the important part but yeah uh but I mean like don't like I would if anybody's starting with a business I would say don't try to be an accountant don't try to be an attorney so true.
49:02
SPEAKER_01: But I will say though I totally agree with that but A, you need a really good attorney who understands business stuff.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: It's not the same one you went to for your divorce.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: It's not the one that does your wills, trusts and estates they're all specialized.
49:20
SPEAKER_01: And so you need somebody that really understands like what a small business slash startup person needs.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Secondly you have to have enough understanding of accounting that you know what you're looking at.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: True because it is the language of business and you know it's it's a it's a great deficiency I think of a lot of of um students that I end up with who have only had like one class perhaps in financial accounting or none.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: And they you know I was I I just recently made a new friend who's an accounting professor in my college he's of course he's a big car and motorcycle guy so we bonded on that level but we started talking about it.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: He's like yeah the accounting is is backwards the students really need to take managerial and cost accounting first and then learn about debits and credits because they need to understand balance sheet is critical.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: You know you got to have enough assets you got to have enough working capital.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah to to make it income statement you know you got to do something you can actually make a profit on.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
50:26
SPEAKER_01: It's not all cash basis and then cash flow.
50:29
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: You know and and so I do think they have to have enough understanding of that.
50:33
SPEAKER_03: Now do they need to sit there and figure out the exact accounting categories and file all the tax forms and do the payroll right no no no no no yeah but they need to have to be able to read they need to read the state be able to read the statements and you and I don't think that you stop learning that stuff either because as you grow you're gonna have to be able to speak to it look at it review it and have dialogue about it or and I'll be I'll raise my hand to be guilty that I I I mean I still don't have the you know the the the knowledge that like you do on that side.
51:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean that's always been it's taken me a long time.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah but it really has a really long time to develop that I had an MBA with a specialization in finance.
51:14
SPEAKER_02: What you didn't ever tell me that okay well come well that's why like I always felt inferior to you when we talk about that stuff.
51:21
SPEAKER_02: No but I would have asked you more questions.
51:23
SPEAKER_02: I was just like I didn't want to say anything.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: I didn't fire me no come on you you didn't believe that I but but even in spite of that education I'm saying all the years of doing the stuff it it has taught me a lot.
51:37
SPEAKER_01: There's no question you got to keep learning for sure that's got to be a quality of an entrepreneur is a willingness and interest in continuing to learn new stuff.
51:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I'd say meet people like you have to be able to go out I mean like you look at any of them in past like these these folks were shaken you know like you you know we go out in the market go in the community you have to get involved in the community like Sam Bolton.
52:03
SPEAKER_01: Right like I mean that was one of his big things is like be involved in the community participate in your community you know you can't just sit in a hole and he got out of stores too I mean I met him at the grand opening of the Sam's Club in 1985 or six that's cool the DFW area was in Hearst Ulysses Bedford and we did the site engineering.
52:28
SPEAKER_01: I think it was the first Sam's Club um in Texas but um we all my my boss Jerry Allen of the Jerry Allen Award yeah yeah and and I um went to the grand opening and and met Sam but yeah he was actively involved moving around meeting everybody that's a good point you can't just hole up and and um expect everything to happen.
52:51
SPEAKER_03: And it's and it's kind of uh a little bit a little bit scary as to or I'd say uh you know it's it's too much of a stigma now that where you can actually do that because of all the tech yeah things that are going on it's easier to but you really can't man I mean even if you're in a tech startup you're like there's somebody within there as they get capitalized they're bringing a team that's that's the front end.
53:15
SPEAKER_03: Yeah you've got to have face man you're no you're you're absolutely right you you do need that that's essential back on the finance thing real quick though I wanted to point out like I I was weak in that but here's the other thing as an entrepreneur I was I'm always the first to wave my hand and say I that's not my skill set.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: Right.
53:32
SPEAKER_03: You know so I need to partner yeah with somebody that's a like I had partners in my businesses and they were sure and my partners were really strong in finance or at least had that mindset.
53:44
SPEAKER_03: They were really strong in operations and you know JS uh you know my my recent partner at White Spider is just really great at like strategic and operational vision casting and stuff like that.
53:56
SPEAKER_01: You know well that's that's essential but you just brought up another thought to my mind I think if you're back on what it takes to be successful as a startup and as a going entrepreneurial concern one thing is A, you can't be too much of a control freak.
54:14
SPEAKER_01: You got to be a control freak on a certain level but you also have to be willing to just let go absolutely of something okay because nobody's gonna want to work for you if you're gonna micromanage them.
54:27
SPEAKER_01: They need to have some runway and maybe you are the best at everything.
54:32
SPEAKER_01: You're probably not but you think you are uh but i until you let somebody else do something you'll never find out whether they're better than you or not how many on that point I mean how many stories have you heard about employees or partners that have experienced an entrepreneur who thought that he or she was the answer to all things.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: Oh I've heard a lot of stories so poisonous and it's just disgusting.
54:59
SPEAKER_03: Like no one wants to work with that person.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: They're not going to be able to grow their business.
55:03
SPEAKER_03: No, they won't and I've never seen them grow.
55:05
SPEAKER_01: If they do they grow to maybe 25 or 30 people and they're all order takers and there's nobody who's really good there.
55:12
SPEAKER_01: And they're miserable and they're unhappy and if the founder is gone or dies or sick or whatever the whole thing just collapses instantly because nobody can make a decision.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing though.
55:23
SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is this is something people don't really talk about a lot but I think it's absolutely critical you can't be greedy.
55:32
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
55:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean you remember when we bought the magazine group back at Zwag Group or Zwag White at the time you remember that right oh yeah and we had an ad sales guy who made more money than any of us yeah he was making more than twice what I was at the time right now ultimately he wasn't worth it.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: Right okay we'll agree on that but if you're greedy you will never you've got to part with some rewards and things I I just love it.
56:07
SPEAKER_01: You know I see all these LinkedIn articles about how do you have an engaged workforce you've got to communicate you got to do you know you gotta um you got to be in a good leader whatever I'm like wait a minute stop do you share your financial information?
56:27
SPEAKER_01: Do you pay people well?
56:29
SPEAKER_01: Do you share your profits?
56:30
SPEAKER_01: Well we don't do any of those things but we do have a lot of nice meetings and team building sessions you're not gonna make it okay quit with the bullshit let's get right down to what it really is going to take.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
56:42
SPEAKER_01: All right you want an engaged workforce sell them ownership uh cut them in on the profits tell them how the business makes money or loses money then we'll get some engagement.
56:53
SPEAKER_01: Share.
56:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah because your business is should never be about yourself.
56:58
SPEAKER_03: It's about it's about the business and about the people it's about the I mean I would even say it goes further.
57:04
SPEAKER_03: It's about the community it's about all a lot of things.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: It certainly is not about the entrepreneur.
57:10
SPEAKER_01: Well that that's an again I hate to keep going back to Janice but it's one of the things I like about these young guys they're not worried about having controlling ownership interest they're more worried about making the company successful.
57:24
SPEAKER_01: Okay they're like that'll all take care of itself if the company's successful you know and I agree with that philosophy.
57:31
SPEAKER_01: I was never worried about having more than 50% as long as I felt um needing to keep that you know because I always felt like I'm gonna be carrying my weight I'm not gonna get thrown out of here because I'm still working and all I care about is the value of my ownership interest is going up not the percentage people get really hung up on that.
57:53
SPEAKER_01: That's a good that's a good quote.
57:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I I got something else too okay what's that so something I think that requires is basically that you my model has always been I never fail.
58:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah I agree with that.
58:09
SPEAKER_03: And it's about reputation it's about your word most important thing you can recover from any disaster if your reputation's intact.
58:18
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely man and I mean it's only been hit a couple times but that's been beyond my control and and I mean and I and I can still attest and wave my hand today that I did everything in my power.
58:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
58:29
SPEAKER_03: Sometimes you can't right you can't uh but I mean I would bleed in the streets I would stay up all night for two nights straight I would sacrifice whatever it took to make sure that my client or my an employee at my company or whoever that was in whatever that situation was that revolved my business that I was there.
58:48
SPEAKER_03: Yep and I would not fail that person or those those situations.
58:52
SPEAKER_01: You're so right about that I mean it's your reputation is the most critical thing.
58:57
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely and that's what nobody talks about with failure, you know and we've yeah had that discussion I think on a previous episode here about how failure's all glorified failure's great fail often fail forward fail failure sucks and it hurts your reputation does and that's the problem that's true it does reputational damage and and you that's why you can't afford to have a lot of failures.
59:20
SPEAKER_03: Because business comes I mean like you know you could market send emails send direct mail or whatever or do ads but it's never going to carry the weight as somebody is me telling hey Mark Janice motorcycles is a really great company they make a great product you should get you one.
59:40
SPEAKER_03: If you're gonna buy a motorcycle you're gonna get that sure yeah that's the the most solid form.
59:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah but if I said dude don't mess with them their freaking owners are greedy right they don't come through on their promises yeah you know stuff is crap stuff is crap they suck they've screwed me over right done yeah done and I mean you know in those couple of instances I was telling you about earlier that are beyond my control uh they hurt they have hurt I have seen it happen sure in multiple instances now I mean it didn't destroy us but man it was certainly some friction in certain things oh gosh but we had some setback that's why group white when we bought that thing back talk about damaged reputation and and my name was on the door even though I didn't own it.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_01: But you came back and it brought some credibility and you fixed it.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_03: We did case by case I remember sitting in a room with you right and you were like saying what to go do because you knew that so well and and and and we found ways out of those holes because you cared you cared you did not like it was hurt and painful for the company at times to I mean so like we would get a we would get some some cash in and I mean it wasn't they weren't small checks but they were gone within 20 minutes.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah so list out who it goes to because those are the ones that you promised yeah Sonia was really good at that man she was a great negotiator with everybody and she was she had these deals where if if we didn't pay it on this if we were like one minute late she was like damn it we will pay you know but yeah your reputation is is absolutely crucial and failure is glorified and you can't afford a lot of failures but you never fail if you never give up you just keep trying you just keep you know I remember selling years ago I worked for this firm in Memphis okay and my boss said we got to get back to working for the Memphis airport authority okay so I I would go to every single airport authority board meeting and I would just go there and sit there and watch it.
1:01:51
SPEAKER_01: Okay and I'd call on the airport director and he's like oh my God he goes Pickering there's no way we're gonna work with you guys you you guys screwed up so bad okay that I we can't possibly work with you.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_01: And so I found out what happened we designed this or we did the construction administration on a on a road that was an approach to the um airport.
1:02:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and whatever happened I don't know but when you rode over it it was like going over a washboard so everybody all the airport authority board members everybody rides over this road and it's real rough even though it's new you know they hated us for that but I just kept going and going and going and going we'll do whatever you need this the worst job the biggest problem you got the thing that nobody else will do and after about a year and a half broke through through through that you know you gotta just not giving up not giving up you got to show up and not give up just show just keep going after it but really it was a great lesson for me to learn.
1:02:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you know you know what that is that's like you have to you have to invest to really do no they always say in any selling relationship you must create deposits in order to be able to make a withdrawal and that's a quote of my friend Matt Lewis who runs uh Lewis Ford oh okay yeah yeah you gotta make deposits if you want to be able to make a withdrawal to bring on we'll get Matt we'll get Matt in here he's really different um runs a great business family owned fourth generation and he's kept that place blowing and growing well they're they're building a huge yeah huge uh new new shop out there they are it's gonna be absolutely beautiful yeah but uh yeah Matt Matt's doing a lot of interesting stuff like giving warranties out of twice what the manufacturer will and and some other things um they don't you know they quote a price that's the same price they'll write you a check for your car or you know they don't do this playing games with trade in yeah value right right he does a lot of interesting things over there and to be a family owned business with all the Lewises there are yeah I mean there's so many of them in this area and um but only three of them work there.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: You know I think that one of the things like in our conversation today that I think uh it would be great for a listener to or or an entrepreneur to take away would be all those stuff that we talked about when you asked the question what do you think it requires of a startup genuinely that's what we're talking about yet you'll miss if you go to the route of being a pitch deck entrepreneur.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah a wanted a coffee shop wantrepreneur you want to see my pitch deck?
1:04:38
SPEAKER_03: Here it is because you yeah if you don't learn how to do all those things I wouldn't invest in you.
1:04:44
SPEAKER_03: If I don't think that you have the character and I mean in all in all honesty I mean I'm betting on the people that's it man you are more than anything and if you if you take someone's money if I took your money on an idea and on some spreadsheets and I don't have the character to to bleed out you know on that idea and have that passion and have that never fail mentality it's dangerous on man.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_03: I agree it gets ugly real quick.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_03: I agree I mean it doesn't take much for people to get really nervous when they put money into something I mean you're talking like within two weeks I'm gonna start everything changes.
1:05:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah everything changes real quick I'm like what has Mark been doing for the last two weeks because I don't see anything coming back.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_03: I don't feel it no I hear you and then then you then then I'm giving you a call you're nervous you know or whatever.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean we're just it's it's a it's a tense it's a very tense relationship.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_01: I I there's no question about that.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_01: I will say that I have invested in some businesses where I had requirements that they do certain things in order to get the money.
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not going to do this unless we create a bonus program that pays everybody on a consistent basis a certain percentage of the profits.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_01: Or we go open book or we do one thing or another because I think it's so important um to do those things.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, you're you're absolutely right.
1:06:09
SPEAKER_01: I I can uh I think it's that's a good point is is um once you put your money into it um you want to make sure certain the business is doing certain things.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_01: But there's a ton of opportunities out there.
1:06:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I mean it's just it it it's absolutely wild the stuff that I see.
1:06:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I I just um I just put one of my friends in touch with somebody so listen to this um there's free businesses out there that people can get this guy just collects businesses he's done a million startups he buys stuff he operates it you know he's got a lot of different things going on but anyway so this other guy I know has had a car business use car lot for 40 years in one location now he consistently made 250 to 5000 a year off that business he's very good at it okay and is that revenue or profit profit he made 250 to 500k a year on his car lot very very knowledgeable about cars got a good network knows how to treat people got some customers he dealt with for 40 years okay yeah but he turned the business over to his son in law a couple years ago all right at no cost and because he's you know he wanted to help him out yeah and he's getting older you know he's got other things he does and so this guy is just let it wind down and so I was talking with him a month or so ago and he said you know I'm gonna get out of it I'm I'm just looking for somebody to take over the lease of this this um building here and I'm gonna get out of it like you're just gonna give up he's like yeah I just I can't buy anything and make any money on it and you know whatever.
1:07:59
SPEAKER_01: So all I could see there is holy cow yeah here's a business that's been in one place for 40 years that's enabled somebody to make 250 to 500,000 a year okay and it's a free business.
1:08:13
SPEAKER_01: Wow because you don't have to pay anything for it.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_01: All you got to do is sign a lease you're gonna go buy cars.
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah you need some cash for inventory but the business itself has zero value in this case but it does have value.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_01: So I turned my friend on to it and um I had first I I brought it to the attention of one of my students who was very interested in it, met with the guy and said, you know what?
1:08:39
SPEAKER_01: I just don't have the capital to do it right right now.
1:08:42
SPEAKER_01: But I'm you know thanks.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: I said okay I'm gonna turn it over to somebody else so I turn it over to my other friend.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: He actually recruits the brother of the guy that I put in touch with it.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_03: Are you serious?
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: And now if he does this business he's gonna put the two of them into it and he'll be the financier for it.
1:09:01
SPEAKER_01: Um but my point of all this is there's all these opportunities sitting out here.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: They're just like everywhere you turn I just see one thing after another boom boom boom boom boom.
1:09:11
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_01: Problem can be solved uh market need or want can be met.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_03: And you don't have to go do pitch deck and raise a bunch of capital for it and get a bunch of other folks to get behind you.
1:09:23
SPEAKER_01: You really don't I mean in this case you could go borrow the money from a bank to do the inventory you could just use an asset if you got one to get a line of credit.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_01: Well heck I mean they even have collateral on what you're buying right exactly well if you want to get into the floor planning which is a hassle because then they keep the titles the bank but yeah there's ways to do stuff right that's my point.
1:09:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah there's ways to do stuff.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_03: There's not just one way.
1:09:47
SPEAKER_03: No which is the thing that we're talking about in the that's the deception.
1:09:50
SPEAKER_03: It is and it's and it's unfortunate because it can stumble and I and I I can imagine I wonder if somebody would do a study on it the amount of entrepreneurs that have never that have gone down this single promoted way that have gone and done all this work spent months to build up a pitch deck and to do all the things and go on these rounds and we're turned told no no no no no and what they're doing today.
1:10:18
SPEAKER_03: Are they still starting up a business or are they just working back and then just forever have a bad taste in their mouth about what an entrepreneur is.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'd uh say most of them are probably not not doing it.
1:10:33
SPEAKER_01: They give up on it.
1:10:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah man they're you know that's not good for us as a country even no it's not you know there are a lot of barriers to well I shouldn't say there's a lot of barriers to starting things because they're all right but some of them are really annoying.
1:10:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:10:49
SPEAKER_01: But just like that glass business, okay, listen to this you know I got to file for a sales tax permit in the state right oh yeah and then I'm gonna have to deal with the potential of 50 state sales and 50 different sales tax arrangements.
1:11:04
SPEAKER_01: There is a company that provides software there's several of them out there that'll help with that.
1:11:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:11:09
SPEAKER_01: But so before I so I got on the state website to look at what I need to do to get a sales tax number.
1:11:14
SPEAKER_01: So well first thing is you've got to have a license for your business in the city that you operate.
1:11:20
SPEAKER_01: So now keep in mind I'm never going to take title to any goods.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_01: It's a website you sell products online the orders go to a company that drop ships the final product all right so now I've got to get a business license in Fayetteville to do that.
1:11:36
SPEAKER_01: All right so then I looked at that and it says well if your business is less than 60 days old no problem.
1:11:43
SPEAKER_01: But if the business is an established business and you haven't done this before you'll pay penalties.
1:11:48
SPEAKER_01: I've had this entity for 12 13 years but it did not the legal entity that's doing the business is MZ Ventures Inc.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:12:00
SPEAKER_01: Okay it's never had products to sell but it's a 13 year old company so does that mean now that I need to get this business it was just a holding company for other investments.
1:12:11
SPEAKER_01: You understand that?
1:12:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah yeah okay so now this holding company that had no operations at all is going to get fined in order to get a business license in the city which is required in order to be able to get a sales tax permit.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean that's the kind of stuff that just drives me mad and it's unnecessary.
1:12:29
SPEAKER_01: First off why does the city of Fayetteville need a business license from me?
1:12:32
SPEAKER_01: There's only one reason money.
1:12:34
SPEAKER_01: Yep that's it I I it's a hidden tax.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: It is I have yet to ever have the government come over and help me out with with something ever I mean and I'm not saying you know but I mean it's the truth.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_03: Like I think that is what entrepreneurs understand is that they're not going to help.
1:12:54
SPEAKER_03: No don't wait for them to help you.
1:12:57
SPEAKER_03: So and if you're gonna go down the Grant way like I would be nervous about that.
1:13:03
SPEAKER_03: Now not I think that there might like I always admired somebody that can understand the way that government could help and they can they hadn't they know how to navigate but that you should probably be involved in that for quite some time before you start trying to access that because it's just it is it is not easy.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_01: Just those little frustrations though are the kinds of things I think really hold people back.
1:13:26
SPEAKER_01: But it's uh I haven't filed for my sales tax permit yet because I got to go fight the city of Fayetteville is going to say I had a business that was here a long time and I was operating without a license.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to set up a new LLC.
1:13:40
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to have another entity I got too many entities the tax situation is already too complicated.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_01: Franchise taxes and all that I just don't and that's what Sonia told me oh get ready they're gonna ask you what computers you have and stuff so they can tax you man that is pathetic okay that is I mean I've had to do that recently too assessments commercial assessments I mean come on right like you should only have to do that if like at a certain criteria.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah exactly like do you have 50 or more employees?
1:14:09
SPEAKER_03: Yes do you manufacture goods?
1:14:12
SPEAKER_03: Yes then if so then you can get you need to get assessed.
1:14:15
SPEAKER_01: No, I got a computer I use for like four or five other businesses and yeah and and my job at the at the U of A.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah like that's just you know that's just stunting yeah entrepreneurism.
1:14:28
SPEAKER_01: It is but those are the kind of things that I think you know frustrate people and thank God we live in Arkansas instead of California.
1:14:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
1:14:36
SPEAKER_01: Because in California or New York some of the the rules are really really difficult for people to navigate you know so that's what one of the reasons I think places like this are growing.
1:14:48
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah is they're just a little more business friendly.
1:14:52
SPEAKER_01: You know?
1:14:52
SPEAKER_01: Yep and it's still not very business friendly but no it's not more business friendly.
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah Fayette Fayetteville is is i you know itself I think is it has somewhat of a reputation for not being super business friendly especially on the real estate side and yeah yeah but anyway we're out of that business thank god well not totally out of it we still got still got that one building over there yeah twenty one thousand square feet I'd love to sell it to you twenty one thousand square feet yes yeah it's over by Bomb Stadium oh yeah it's the uh it's the um uh what do you call it uh multi university plaza yeah but it's a what do you multi tenant yeah uh mixed use mixed use thank you yeah mixed use project yeah so it's got retail yeah it's but mostly it's not retail what you want for it well we can talk about that after the show I was gonna we're gonna do negotiation right here live man hey I we can talk about it after the show sounds great it sounds fair but anyway so it's been great talking today uh yeah you too Mark and uh it's always fun getting together with you buddy it is man there's plenty to talk about there is indeed I look forward to our next show and uh maybe we'll bring a guest on next uh next week sounds good okay I'll be here okay see you buddy thank you thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk about small business if you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows be sure to head over to our website www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com and click on the ask the host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_00: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business and be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes and ask questions about upcoming shows