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Do the Tigers actually have enough to make a run? · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: And welcome into another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:12
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network. Troy Tiger's podcast, I'm here Steckley
0:15
Speaker 1: with me as always is a man who is always
0:17
Speaker 1: comfortable in the personal area.
0:19
Speaker 2: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How are we doing?
0:21
Speaker 3: Players got to wear cups? Man, It would it would
0:24
Speaker 3: solve a lot of things. I mean, it amazes me
0:26
Speaker 3: these pro athletes these days not out here wearing cups.
0:31
Speaker 1: Yes, let's let's let's let's start out the podcast with
0:33
Speaker 1: a little bit of humor given what we've seen these
0:35
Speaker 1: past two days on the field of America Park. Cody so,
0:38
Speaker 1: Tarif Schooble is okay, Teris Schooble is okay. He just
0:41
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a like I said, uncomfortable
0:45
Speaker 1: in the personal area, I think is what A J.
0:47
Speaker 2: Hinch described it as. And what did Terrek say? He said,
0:50
Speaker 2: like what you think happened?
0:51
Speaker 1: Happened or something like yes, which you know I kind
0:54
Speaker 1: of respect that as well and look to be honest
0:58
Speaker 1: and just kind of keep the metaphor going here. It
1:02
Speaker 1: does kind of feel like a kicking the growing watching
1:04
Speaker 1: the Tigers flail repeatedly at the plate right now, Cody,
1:08
Speaker 1: and losing these close games, and I'll tell you if
1:11
Speaker 1: you want, like even just when they get an extra
1:13
Speaker 1: base hit like a double or something doing like the
1:15
Speaker 1: punch down and kind of the growing. I'm kind of
1:17
Speaker 1: tired of the growing stuff. With the Tigers kicking the
1:19
Speaker 1: groin pitchers and the groin punching the groin. It feels
1:22
Speaker 1: like a kicking the groin watching this team right now
1:24
Speaker 1: as we record this after a two to one defeat
1:28
Speaker 1: at the hands of the Houston Astros, of course, after
1:30
Speaker 1: losing a series four to two against the Yankees on Wednesday.
1:34
Speaker 1: So it's gonna be a tough one to thread the
1:38
Speaker 1: needle here.
1:38
Speaker 3: Cody's threading the needle right off the bat.
1:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's gonna be a tough one because
1:45
Speaker 1: what we're watching right now is the execution of a
1:50
Speaker 1: not functional baseball team. So halfway through the season, we
1:53
Speaker 1: are looking at a thirty four and forty seven record
1:56
Speaker 1: for the Tigers. Obviously thirteen low, five hundred. I don't
1:59
Speaker 1: even care about the standings right now. And it's a
2:04
Speaker 1: shame because schoo Ball, like, yeah, he gave up the
2:06
Speaker 1: home runs and that was like the anomaly of the
2:08
Speaker 1: past two days. But you know, six and he's there,
2:11
Speaker 1: nine strikeouts, like he was excellent for the vast majority
2:15
Speaker 1: of that game. It's just like gold Schmidt and Dominguez,
2:18
Speaker 1: you know, you know, tagged him and then Melton perfect
2:22
Speaker 1: tonight through five point one. He gives up the one
2:25
Speaker 1: home run and of course, like ken Lee Jansen, can't squeez,
2:30
Speaker 1: can't hold the Astros there, it ends up being a
2:32
Speaker 1: two to one. Yeah, I've watched a lot of teams
2:37
Speaker 1: Cody over the years, and not just the Tigers that
2:40
Speaker 1: like have good sometimes like pretty excellent starting pitching, but
2:46
Speaker 1: not a lot of offense to show for it. And
2:48
Speaker 1: I always associate those teams with not being well run organizations. Because, look,
2:54
Speaker 1: the hardest thing to do in sports, right is the
2:55
Speaker 1: hit of baseball. We all understand that, so by extension,
2:58
Speaker 1: probably the hardest thing to do about building a team
3:01
Speaker 1: is to build a team full of guys that can
3:04
Speaker 1: hit the baseball.
3:04
Speaker 2: So like all that I you know, is apparent.
3:09
Speaker 1: However, we have watched this offense repeatedly come up short
3:13
Speaker 1: in crucial situations, and it's kind of simple for the
3:16
Speaker 1: Tigers this year. When you have excellent or good to
3:19
Speaker 1: excellent starting pitching as they have consistently this year, and
3:22
Speaker 1: that streak of four earned runs or less from their starter.
3:26
Speaker 1: This is from the graphic on the Torot Sports network
3:28
Speaker 1: thirty and twelve when you score four runs or more,
3:32
Speaker 1: four and thirty five when you score three or less.
3:35
Speaker 1: It's pretty simple. It's hard to do, but it's pretty simple.
3:38
Speaker 1: This offense just isn't getting it done.
3:42
Speaker 3: No, they've had their moments. They've had their moments this month.
3:45
Speaker 3: You can still go on fangrafts and sort by the
3:48
Speaker 3: month of June and be pleased with what you see,
3:51
Speaker 3: with where the Tigers rank and a bunch of various categories.
3:56
Speaker 3: But then you watch the games, and you watch games
3:58
Speaker 3: like the last couple of nights, and it's a little
4:01
Speaker 3: bit of a reminder. Seems capable of getting hot, capable
4:05
Speaker 3: of having some good days. Do they really have enough?
4:09
Speaker 3: Do they have enough to sustain it? Your bottom of
4:12
Speaker 3: your order is James Outman, Zach McKinstry.
4:15
Speaker 2: How you lee like?
4:17
Speaker 3: Is that gonna cut it? Even? Some guys more toward
4:21
Speaker 3: the middle of your order. Colt Keith, who I still
4:23
Speaker 3: really want to believe in, has just had some ugly
4:26
Speaker 3: at bats. Carry Carpenter, who we've talked about a lot,
4:30
Speaker 3: boy likes to chase him some breaking balls. Spencer Tooricalson,
4:35
Speaker 3: never really know what you're gonna get, even Riley Green
4:37
Speaker 3: at times it really does feel like McGonagall and Dingler
4:41
Speaker 3: lately the only guys you really have confidence when they
4:44
Speaker 3: are stepping up to the plate. Sometimes Riley, you can
4:47
Speaker 3: throw in there. Hitting is the hardest thing to do
4:52
Speaker 3: in sports, So it's not about necessarily assembling a team
4:56
Speaker 3: that can hit the ball that can be Murderer's row.
4:59
Speaker 3: But consistent at back quality has been an issue for
5:03
Speaker 3: the Tigers for pretty much my entire time covering them,
5:08
Speaker 3: And maybe everyone thinks that about about the team they
5:11
Speaker 3: cover or are a fan of, But yeah, there's just
5:16
Speaker 3: still too many empty at bats, And like one thing
5:19
Speaker 3: spin it forward, like if the Tigers are within striking
5:22
Speaker 3: distance by the trade deadline, might they make a run
5:24
Speaker 3: for it? One way to view that is like, I
5:28
Speaker 3: don't know, man, someone's gonna have to make a tough
5:32
Speaker 3: call if that were to end up being the case.
5:33
Speaker 3: And if you're within a handful of games but still
5:36
Speaker 3: out of it, do you really have enough? Is it
5:41
Speaker 3: in there? I don't know. It's not over. Its team
5:44
Speaker 3: can play well, but man, I don't know if they
5:47
Speaker 3: can sustain it.
5:50
Speaker 1: I think the answer is a no, yes it is
5:53
Speaker 1: it enough? No, it's obviously not enough. Like if I
5:55
Speaker 1: were to, like, like again, I like to do this
5:58
Speaker 1: exercise where it's like if I were to tell you
6:00
Speaker 1: in January these things, you'd be like, yeah, it's probably
6:03
Speaker 1: not going so high. McKinstry being a minus one war
6:06
Speaker 1: plus war player and was he like one eighty something
6:10
Speaker 1: or whatever. And I know we've talked about him kind
6:11
Speaker 1: of getting some line drive back, but obviously hasn't happened
6:15
Speaker 1: consistently enough. You know, Wentzel not having any of the upside,
6:19
Speaker 1: and of course the injury. You know, we understand that,
6:22
Speaker 1: you know, James Outman's in center field. You've probably been
6:24
Speaker 1: like who you know? You know what I mean, and
6:27
Speaker 1: then like how you lee? You might have been able
6:29
Speaker 1: to hold onto something, and you know, give him credit,
6:31
Speaker 1: he had a base hit today. But like the answer
6:34
Speaker 1: is no, it's it's not enough right now. Like it's
6:36
Speaker 1: just like it clearly is not now is it in there?
6:41
Speaker 1: That's the complicated question, because there is, as I've said,
6:45
Speaker 1: proof of concept of all those guys that you listed
6:48
Speaker 1: there having a quote in there, but it's not there
6:51
Speaker 1: right now. Uh So like when it's not there, you're
6:56
Speaker 1: not deep enough clearly to overcome this. And the Tigers
7:02
Speaker 1: were built to lean on internal ascension among their young players,
7:09
Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways it has not happened.
7:13
Speaker 1: In various cases it has, but in a lot of
7:16
Speaker 1: ways it hasn't. And then you throw in the random
7:19
Speaker 1: bad luck stuff and the injuries and all that stuff,
7:21
Speaker 1: and you have a formula for thirty four and forty seven.
7:25
Speaker 1: So like, in a way, as much as I like
7:27
Speaker 1: wake up every day thinking they really could go on
7:30
Speaker 1: a run like they I do believe that.
7:32
Speaker 2: I do believe that.
7:33
Speaker 1: I wake up every day they did they could go
7:35
Speaker 1: on a run. They just don't seem to have it
7:39
Speaker 1: in them right now. And that's the frustrating thing. And
7:42
Speaker 1: I feel bad even thinking about that on July twenty fifth,
7:45
Speaker 1: But that's that's that. I can only react to what
7:47
Speaker 1: I'm seeing on the field, Cody, And there were so
7:49
Speaker 1: many balls today that emi through that. Again, I don't
7:54
Speaker 1: want a Monday morning quarterback this, but some of those sliders,
7:57
Speaker 1: I mean, did they reach, did they reach the end
8:01
Speaker 1: of the grass before they hit the ground, and the
8:03
Speaker 1: Tigers were swinging at him like seriously, like it was
8:06
Speaker 1: it was a poor, poor game at the plate and
8:09
Speaker 1: just like kind of deflating. You know, you get and
8:11
Speaker 1: then you know Dingler has the home run there and
8:14
Speaker 1: he number nineteen. That's still crazy too. But McGonagall, besides
8:17
Speaker 1: McGonagall and Dinglin, I'm gonna throw Raley Green in that
8:20
Speaker 1: people are down on rally, Like I feel like I
8:22
Speaker 1: know enough about Riley that I'm not gonna dismiss what
8:26
Speaker 1: he does.
8:26
Speaker 2: At the plate.
8:27
Speaker 1: But other than those three, it's kind of it's a
8:31
Speaker 1: hope and a prayer and that's not a formula to
8:34
Speaker 1: compete even in the what is a hugely weak American League.
8:39
Speaker 2: So yeah, and you.
8:40
Speaker 3: Could totally Jinch was disappointed after the game, I think
8:43
Speaker 3: because this wasn't necessarily like you just running to a
8:47
Speaker 3: bus sauce starter like Tessway. You may enter this game
8:50
Speaker 3: with what like a six E r A. He's not
8:52
Speaker 3: that good. Talking to Hinch Tigers hitters, you could tell,
8:56
Speaker 3: you know, his slider, his mo was kind of a
8:59
Speaker 3: varying slider. Sometimes it's depthy, sometimes it's more like a cutter.
9:02
Speaker 3: Sometimes it literally backs up, I think by design, and
9:06
Speaker 3: so I think that's what was tough. Like getting a recognition,
9:11
Speaker 3: seeing the pitch out of hand and knowing where it
9:13
Speaker 3: was gonna end up was tough on him. But Hinch
9:15
Speaker 3: said something to the effect of like he doesn't have
9:17
Speaker 3: a pattern, and I don't think he meant that in
9:20
Speaker 3: a positive way, Like they got beat by a guy
9:23
Speaker 3: who's just not all that good. You know, granted his
9:25
Speaker 3: last two outings have been very strong, but that's a
9:28
Speaker 3: guy you if the pitcher doesn't really have a plan,
9:31
Speaker 3: you should you should devise a better plan at the
9:33
Speaker 3: plate to beat that guy. And they didn't do it.
9:35
Speaker 3: They were chasing spin. I mean, it's fastball slider, you know,
9:38
Speaker 3: eliminate one, do some damage. They couldn't do that. It
9:42
Speaker 3: was it was a discouraging day coming off a series
9:45
Speaker 3: lost to the Yankees. You lost a Scooball start, then
9:48
Speaker 3: you lost a Troy Melton start where he was perfect
9:50
Speaker 3: through five and a third. I mean, that's that's pretty deflating.
9:57
Speaker 2: Yes, it is deflating.
9:58
Speaker 1: And and I'll tell you what could any to inflip
10:01
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10:03
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10:06
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10:09
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11:22
Speaker 1: All right, Uh, speak of Trek schoobl on a on
11:25
Speaker 1: a serious note, Uh, I just want to say I
11:30
Speaker 1: feel bad for you guys out there that were disappointed
11:33
Speaker 1: for his trade value with the home runs that he
11:36
Speaker 1: gave up.
11:36
Speaker 2: I know you're really hurting about that. Uh.
11:38
Speaker 1: But but in all and in all seriousness, Cody, you know, Schoolble,
11:43
Speaker 1: you know, really is the leader of this team. He
11:46
Speaker 1: is the face of the organization right now, and he
11:49
Speaker 1: is like the one whose voice has the greatest weight,
11:53
Speaker 1: right And we talked about him having sort of like
11:56
Speaker 1: the call to arms last week and how the Tigers responded,
12:00
Speaker 1: and you know, he kind of has a silver vibe
12:03
Speaker 1: even after Wednesday's game. And so I'm curious as somebody
12:08
Speaker 1: who covers him. I feel like has a pretty good
12:11
Speaker 1: feel for him. Like, what's your read on schoobl right now,
12:16
Speaker 1: given just everything that's gone on, you know, the team,
12:20
Speaker 1: the stuff with his arm, and you know sort of
12:22
Speaker 1: like you know, kind of us learning more information about
12:25
Speaker 1: it as time progresses, and then you just kind of
12:28
Speaker 1: have the cloud hanging over with like the trade deadline,
12:32
Speaker 1: the free agency hell, even union labor relations and all
12:39
Speaker 1: that stuff, which we'll get to here in a second.
12:40
Speaker 1: Like what's kind of your read on like how Schoogle
12:43
Speaker 1: is kind of carrying everything?
12:47
Speaker 3: That's funny. I talked to Schoogle for like twenty minutes
12:51
Speaker 3: on Thursday. I'll share all that with you guys one
12:54
Speaker 3: of these days kind of because some of those same
12:58
Speaker 3: questions were on my mind, Like this, it's just been
13:00
Speaker 3: through a lot. Everything he does now is a storyline.
13:04
Speaker 3: You work your ass off, you work your whole life
13:06
Speaker 3: to get to the top of your profession, and the
13:09
Speaker 3: trade off for that is you're now part of this machine.
13:13
Speaker 3: Right You were part of this multimillion billion dollar industry.
13:19
Speaker 3: You're part of the machine. You are the face of
13:20
Speaker 3: the trade deadline, all that good stuff. It's gotta be
13:22
Speaker 3: kind of hard, right, and I think if you had
13:26
Speaker 3: truth seer, it probably has been hard. But I do
13:29
Speaker 3: think the competitor in Schooble is kind of wired to
13:34
Speaker 3: try his best to block that out or you know,
13:37
Speaker 3: kind of put on blinders. And a lot of athletes
13:40
Speaker 3: are like that because he's in the middle of the season.
13:42
Speaker 3: When you're in a major league baseball season, it's it's
13:46
Speaker 3: not great for people's personal life because it's just hard
13:48
Speaker 3: to focus on a lot else other than like the
13:51
Speaker 3: task at hand and what you are doing and your
13:54
Speaker 3: routine and all that good stuff. Like he's locked in
13:56
Speaker 3: on it right now. I think it's a tough vibe
13:59
Speaker 3: for everyone when the team is losing games when school
14:02
Speaker 3: bol who I do think, all things considered, was pretty
14:05
Speaker 3: close to back to himself. His last outing, he had
14:07
Speaker 3: a forty percent with rate. The change up was nasty.
14:10
Speaker 3: Paul gold Schmidt has just kind of owned them beat
14:12
Speaker 3: him twice. If Schooball doesn't elevate the change up to Dominguez,
14:17
Speaker 3: he gives up two runs, Tigers win. We're talking about, Wow,
14:20
Speaker 3: what a great outing, And that's that's the margin of success,
14:23
Speaker 3: Like that's the life in the big leagues. Right one
14:25
Speaker 3: pitch he messed up, or you could argue probably shouldn't
14:27
Speaker 3: be battling nine to ten pitches with Domingaz anyway, probably
14:30
Speaker 3: should have blown him out, got out of there. So like,
14:32
Speaker 3: maybe there's still clearly there's still a level or two
14:36
Speaker 3: for him to climb to be like Cy Young formed
14:38
Speaker 3: Trek Scoogle. But the stuff is there. I'm not worried
14:41
Speaker 3: about that. I'm not worried about the trade value we've seen.
14:44
Speaker 3: We've seen in all three of his outings, he's gotten
14:47
Speaker 3: slightly better each time. The stuff is there. But I
14:50
Speaker 3: think this is difficult for him. I think he's being
14:53
Speaker 3: the voice, he's saying the right things. I think he
14:55
Speaker 3: believed the right things. I think he has the right attitude,
14:58
Speaker 3: and yet none of that makes it easy.
15:00
Speaker 1: See Yeah, and I don't mean this, uh pointedly, but
15:08
Speaker 1: there is an element of you know, you reached the
15:10
Speaker 1: mountain top and the only play you know, people try
15:13
Speaker 1: to not you know, they build you up to knock
15:14
Speaker 1: you down a little bit. And I think he has experience.
15:17
Speaker 1: I mean, he certainly experienced that with the whole Team
15:19
Speaker 1: USA thing. Of course, now we have more context and
15:22
Speaker 1: and all that stuff, So uh, you know, once he
15:25
Speaker 1: becomes potentially like the richest picture on the planet like that,
15:29
Speaker 1: will you know only continue.
15:31
Speaker 2: Right, So that's uh, that's just sort of that's the game.
15:35
Speaker 1: That's the game outside the game, I guess you would say,
15:37
Speaker 1: and and I like, I do like like you have
15:41
Speaker 1: kind of raised I don't want to say raise concern,
15:43
Speaker 1: but you've said, like, all right, you don't need to
15:44
Speaker 1: get an argument with a couple years ago, get an
15:47
Speaker 1: arguing about the umpire every out, and you don't need
15:49
Speaker 1: to get into a shouting match with somebody on the
15:51
Speaker 1: bench every outing.
15:53
Speaker 2: I do hope that, like the whole.
15:57
Speaker 1: Call the arms thing, like I didn't do good enough,
16:00
Speaker 1: like you know, that kind of stuff, which I do
16:02
Speaker 1: believe to be authentic. I hope it doesn't get to
16:04
Speaker 1: the point where it feels cliche. You see what I'm saying,
16:07
Speaker 1: Like like, you know.
16:08
Speaker 3: Well, I know what would help that winning some ball games,
16:13
Speaker 3: getting some hits, getting some hits.
16:15
Speaker 2: Let's go, well, there there is you know, speaking of labor.
16:20
Speaker 1: And obviously Schooble is a directly involved and b will
16:24
Speaker 1: be directly impacted by this upcoming CBA.
16:27
Speaker 2: We did get a Major League Baseball.
16:31
Speaker 1: I guess plan, proposal, leak, you know, whatever you want
16:34
Speaker 1: to call it for for you know.
16:37
Speaker 3: They're just putting it out there. It's just all out
16:40
Speaker 3: in the open, this negotiation. It's it's kind of wild
16:43
Speaker 3: tactics from both the league and the union.
16:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, leak was a bad word there. They're thank you
16:47
Speaker 2: for corrected me.
16:48
Speaker 1: But the gist of it is they'll be they'll raise
16:51
Speaker 1: the minimum salary to one million for players with two
16:54
Speaker 1: years service time nine hundred k, with the potential for
16:57
Speaker 1: more if you're zero to one service time, no more
17:00
Speaker 1: qualifying offer, no more deferred salary of future contracts. Arbitration
17:05
Speaker 1: would be the same, and then the sort of the
17:07
Speaker 1: headline is that there would be a max contract. So
17:12
Speaker 1: the max contract you could sign as a free agent
17:14
Speaker 1: would be five years for two hundred and two million.
17:17
Speaker 1: If you sign with your current team, then it could
17:20
Speaker 1: be six years for a total of two hundred and
17:22
Speaker 1: sixty five million. So if you guys are NBA fans
17:24
Speaker 1: as well, just think of it as like bird rights
17:26
Speaker 1: essentially for the MBA. I think MLB is trying to
17:29
Speaker 1: call it cornerstone player, you know, something like that would
17:33
Speaker 1: be the terminology. So you know, there's obviously a lot
17:37
Speaker 1: of worry about being able to resign Tarek School. There
17:39
Speaker 1: has been, you know, throughout the entirety of this process.
17:43
Speaker 1: That's partially why it's been a storyline.
17:45
Speaker 2: Right.
17:47
Speaker 1: My only thought about this is that if you this
17:53
Speaker 1: might be your best case scenario if you're a Tigers
17:55
Speaker 1: fan to resign Eric school is that he doesn't sign
17:58
Speaker 1: before the CBA and somehow this it's agreed to, and
18:01
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, everybody's you know, got the
18:03
Speaker 1: same contract offer, except you can offer one more year
18:06
Speaker 1: and and uz a fifty sixty three more million dollars.
18:12
Speaker 1: So I guess maybe that's something'll hold on. Hope for
18:15
Speaker 1: Cody is that you get fixed costs and then school
18:18
Speaker 1: will come back because you're the only one that can
18:20
Speaker 1: offer the year and the extra money.
18:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
18:22
Speaker 1: I don't know.
18:23
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to engage in the hypotheticals because
18:26
Speaker 3: all these proposals, I think you're just kind of noise
18:29
Speaker 3: until about February when the negotiating starts getting serious. I
18:34
Speaker 3: think we might miss a full season before the players
18:36
Speaker 3: agreed to this structure. It's it's pretty limiting. I don't
18:41
Speaker 3: think people should miss a full season. I don't think
18:43
Speaker 3: they will. I think there's too much in sin to get.
18:44
Speaker 4: A deal done.
18:45
Speaker 2: Was why.
18:45
Speaker 3: I don't think this will ultimately happen. So we're just
18:47
Speaker 3: talking for the sake of talking here. If for some
18:50
Speaker 3: reason there were an inkling that this was going to
18:53
Speaker 3: be like a real structure, then you and bank Trek
18:57
Speaker 3: Schooble would be citing before December first, going to the
19:00
Speaker 3: highest bidder, and maybe a reminder like why there might
19:03
Speaker 3: be a lot of action before December first this offseason,
19:07
Speaker 3: just given the uncertainty of what might happen when the
19:11
Speaker 3: CBA is agreed to. I don't really think it's gonna
19:13
Speaker 3: be this structure, but it might be something different than
19:17
Speaker 3: what we're used to. So yeah, I bet Trek Scooble
19:20
Speaker 3: will sign before December first, if not an extra year,
19:25
Speaker 3: and if all things are considered equal, like yeah, sure,
19:28
Speaker 3: that would change the calculus a little bit because there
19:31
Speaker 3: is no highest bidder. If multiple teams are offering the
19:34
Speaker 3: same thing, then it would be like, Okay, what are
19:36
Speaker 3: Schoobl's priorities really? Is it where he wants to live
19:39
Speaker 3: and be close to his family. Is it where he
19:41
Speaker 3: feels most likely to win a championship or is it
19:44
Speaker 3: like stay with the organization that drafted him. That would
19:46
Speaker 3: be kind of a fascinating decision, but we'll probably never
19:51
Speaker 3: come to a point where that is the decision.
19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, very true.
19:57
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna take a quick break and I
19:59
Speaker 1: think go to your mic a little little maybe unplugged
20:02
Speaker 1: or something.
20:03
Speaker 2: It's a little gobe there.
20:05
Speaker 1: But we're gonna take a quick break, and then afterward,
20:07
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to a little thing that I've noticed
20:10
Speaker 1: that might help explain the Tigers hitting problems.
20:13
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21:19
Speaker 2: All right, coming back here. You know something I started
21:22
Speaker 2: to pick up on.
21:24
Speaker 1: This week, Cody, just you know, randomly things kind of
21:28
Speaker 1: pop in your head as you watch these games, and.
21:31
Speaker 2: You know, the Tigers.
21:33
Speaker 1: First of all, I'll go back to Scott Harris's introductory
21:35
Speaker 1: press conference. He talked about dominating the strike zone, right,
21:38
Speaker 1: that was on both sides of the plate. That was
21:41
Speaker 1: like what he desired his team's mo to be. And
21:43
Speaker 1: then you throw in aj Hinch and the coaching staff
21:46
Speaker 1: and you know, like kind of looking for every edge,
21:48
Speaker 1: Like obviously they thought the offense would be better than
21:51
Speaker 1: it has performed thus far, but they also aren't ignorant
21:54
Speaker 1: to the fact that, you know, something like this could happen, right,
21:58
Speaker 1: I think that is fair to say. So I would
22:02
Speaker 1: have anticipated the Tigers being one of the better teams
22:06
Speaker 1: in baseball at kind of taking advantage from the from
22:09
Speaker 1: a batter's perspective of the ABS challenge system. And so
22:14
Speaker 1: I went and looked at the numbers. So Dylan Dinglar,
22:17
Speaker 1: no surprise, he he's done it ten times, McGonagle seventeen times,
22:21
Speaker 1: sixty percent overturn rate for Dingler, seventy percent overturn rate
22:25
Speaker 1: for McGonagall.
22:26
Speaker 2: That's well above average.
22:27
Speaker 1: But then you look at the rest of the team
22:29
Speaker 1: and it's a bunch of twos and threes like challenge attempts,
22:33
Speaker 1: you know. And even Jake Rodgers, who I know, you know,
22:36
Speaker 1: design everyday player, but he's a catcher. He's only done
22:38
Speaker 1: it three times as a batter and he has yet
22:41
Speaker 1: to uh yet to win one. Actually, so this to
22:45
Speaker 1: me is a is one little stat point that explains
22:50
Speaker 1: a team that is struggling to kind of put everything together.
22:53
Speaker 1: When you're nine and sixteen and one run games when
22:56
Speaker 1: you're when when when you're four and thirty five, In
22:59
Speaker 1: games in which you score three or little runs, these
23:01
Speaker 1: are opportunities to getting better counts, to see better pitches to.
23:07
Speaker 1: What this tells me is that they're just not confident
23:09
Speaker 1: at the plate and in the strike zone as I
23:13
Speaker 1: want to say they should be, but as they need
23:16
Speaker 1: to be given everything else that has gone on. So
23:18
Speaker 1: what are your kind of what are your thoughts on
23:21
Speaker 1: on the Tigers like lack of use and in some
23:24
Speaker 1: ways like misuse of the ABS challenge this I'm not
23:28
Speaker 1: using it for to an advantage like it could be.
23:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. There are certainly times I think
23:35
Speaker 3: they should use it more. But then let's just sort
23:38
Speaker 3: what batting teams use it the most. Number One is
23:42
Speaker 3: the Minnesota Twins, they're terrible. Twos the Houston Astros, they're
23:45
Speaker 3: not very good. Three is the Cleveland Guardians, they're okay.
23:48
Speaker 3: Fours the Reds they're not that good. Fives the Yankees,
23:51
Speaker 3: oh hey, they're good. Six is the Mats, they're terrible.
23:54
Speaker 3: Seven is the Angels, They're terrible. Age is the Rockies,
23:57
Speaker 3: They're terrible. So that aldis to me think there's really
23:59
Speaker 3: no correlation between who uses the challenge system the most
24:03
Speaker 3: and being the best team.
24:07
Speaker 1: Well, does it make you feel better that Jamia Jones
24:10
Speaker 1: is two for two?
24:13
Speaker 3: I don't think I moves the needle much.
24:17
Speaker 1: But look, but if if it's a very it's if
24:20
Speaker 1: it's a huge variance, which is you know that's what
24:22
Speaker 1: you just outlined right there, then it's still opportunity that
24:25
Speaker 1: you had, or in this case not had to try
24:27
Speaker 1: to gain some sort of edge, which is really what
24:33
Speaker 1: the Tigers are a try to gain an edge team,
24:36
Speaker 1: and this is an example of them not doing it
24:38
Speaker 1: like the every like. It's the same thought process that
24:41
Speaker 1: goes into all the pinch hitting and even pitching uh decisions,
24:45
Speaker 1: is that you're trying to get at any edge that
24:48
Speaker 1: you possibly can, even if it's a small one. And
24:50
Speaker 1: this is an instance of the team just not being.
24:52
Speaker 2: Comfortable with the players.
24:53
Speaker 1: You know, it's on them not being comfortable enough in
24:56
Speaker 1: the box to know when to challenge. And some of
24:59
Speaker 1: the are blatant misses by the umpire. Not a lot
25:04
Speaker 1: of them, but we saw a lot this week blatant
25:06
Speaker 1: misses by the umpire that they could take advantage of.
25:08
Speaker 1: And there's not so if you're looking for something that
25:11
Speaker 1: isn't skill based, it's field based, it's baseball IQ based.
25:16
Speaker 1: This is an area that in my opinion, they're lacking
25:19
Speaker 1: that is a missed opportunity if.
25:21
Speaker 3: You if you look closer on Baseball Savant, the Tigers
25:25
Speaker 3: have gained eight point one runs as batters using the
25:31
Speaker 3: ABS that ranks eighth in the league. So they've done
25:35
Speaker 3: all right. They've done al right since the start. This
25:37
Speaker 3: was like an intricate balance between volume and situation. It's
25:43
Speaker 3: about how often you use it, or is about when
25:45
Speaker 3: you use it and when you do it correctly. Based
25:49
Speaker 3: on the fact, you know, the Tigers have gained an
25:52
Speaker 3: estimated eight runs throughout, I'd say they've They've used it
25:55
Speaker 3: pretty selectively in some pretty good spots, and there are
25:59
Speaker 3: certainly times I think they could use it more, But
26:02
Speaker 3: I don't think that's the reason their thirteen games below
26:05
Speaker 3: five hundred.
26:08
Speaker 2: I think.
26:11
Speaker 1: Last year the way we talked about like the taking
26:13
Speaker 1: the extra bases and all that stuff and how like,
26:16
Speaker 1: you know, that was like part of their mo If
26:18
Speaker 1: if the Tigers were forty seven and thirty four and
26:21
Speaker 1: they were excellent at the ABS system as batters, we
26:24
Speaker 1: would be talking about it in that same light because
26:27
Speaker 1: it'd be one of those things that they're just doing
26:29
Speaker 1: at a high clip that's creating runs.
26:30
Speaker 2: It's creating wins and et cetera. And it's just maybe.
26:33
Speaker 1: It's not happening for a lot of people in baseball.
26:36
Speaker 1: The eight runs is good, but I just feel like
26:38
Speaker 1: missed opportunities there, and just like everything else going on
26:41
Speaker 1: with this team, the margin is so thin, you like,
26:45
Speaker 1: you just you gotta get old that you can right now.
26:49
Speaker 2: So anyway, all right, let's let's wrap up with this Cody.
26:53
Speaker 1: You know, we saw back to back outings this week
26:56
Speaker 1: from Emanuel DeJesus, and you know, I would I want
27:01
Speaker 1: to kind of go and look at some of his
27:02
Speaker 1: recent outing and I know he hasn't been used a
27:05
Speaker 1: lot in high leverage situations, so I understand that. But
27:09
Speaker 1: he you know, he gave up two hits on Wednesday.
27:13
Speaker 1: Was that Wednesday or Tuesday, doesn't matter, they'll run together.
27:15
Speaker 1: And he hadn't given up a hit since before that.
27:19
Speaker 1: Since May twenty second, he hasn't given up a run
27:23
Speaker 1: since May eighteenth.
27:25
Speaker 2: He's been et.
27:26
Speaker 1: I wanna say he's an innings eater, but he usually
27:29
Speaker 1: goes out there and completes at least one. This is
27:31
Speaker 1: a guy that was given, you know, a decent contract,
27:36
Speaker 1: and he earned his way onto the forty man with
27:38
Speaker 1: an excellent spring, and then the season started and it
27:41
Speaker 1: was it was kind of ugly, and he kind of
27:43
Speaker 1: got demoted to the blowout role.
27:46
Speaker 2: Either way, is it.
27:49
Speaker 1: Time to kind of give him and I think AJ
27:51
Speaker 1: has started to do this, But should we will we
27:53
Speaker 1: start seeing the Hayesus pitch a little bit more in
27:57
Speaker 1: higher leverage situations.
27:59
Speaker 2: Has he kind of earn that?
28:00
Speaker 3: In your opinion, I think what's what he's doing right
28:07
Speaker 3: now is working well for everyone. I don't think there
28:09
Speaker 3: is any need to really change his usage maybe and
28:13
Speaker 3: pitch a little more. He's been used very sparingly, which
28:16
Speaker 3: is one reason I'm hesitant to leap to any conclusion here.
28:21
Speaker 3: Other reasons I feel that way. You have two other
28:24
Speaker 3: lefties in the pin. Drew Summers has emerged as perhaps nasty,
28:29
Speaker 3: and then Tyler Holten's been a lot better. Strike throwing
28:32
Speaker 3: has been a lot better. So he's still probably your
28:34
Speaker 3: third best left hander. What he does give you is length,
28:37
Speaker 3: multi inning, so I'm not trying to push him into
28:39
Speaker 3: like a leverage role, especially with will Vest looking more
28:43
Speaker 3: like himself. I think he's a nice option to have.
28:46
Speaker 3: It's okay to have guys who are clearly labeled as
28:49
Speaker 3: your quote unquote losing bullpen. You want them to still
28:53
Speaker 3: be pitching, well, you want them to be options or
28:56
Speaker 3: if you need them in a pinch. If he continues
28:59
Speaker 3: to pitch, well, well I'm sure we will see him
29:01
Speaker 3: more often, see him in some different sort of spots.
29:04
Speaker 3: But right now, I don't know, keep doing the job.
29:07
Speaker 3: There are worse things than kind of being in the
29:09
Speaker 3: mop up role. Unless one of your other lefties really
29:13
Speaker 3: starts faltering. I don't see a reason to tweak Dejesus's
29:19
Speaker 3: role too much, all.
29:22
Speaker 1: Right, And you know, and in fairness, it will probably
29:26
Speaker 1: happen in some fashion because the hand will be forced.
29:28
Speaker 1: That's just you know how uh, you know how how
29:32
Speaker 1: these things work. Unfortunately, but it is good to you know,
29:35
Speaker 1: to see him kind of find his form a little
29:37
Speaker 1: bit more. And then, like I said, they might sometimes
29:39
Speaker 1: these mop up opportunities end up being like w's for
29:42
Speaker 1: for you on your baseball card because the team comes back, No,
29:45
Speaker 1: if the team is capable of hitting the ball, which
29:48
Speaker 1: not as much recently.
29:50
Speaker 2: All right, Cody, anything else? Before we jet out.
29:52
Speaker 3: Of here, I thought we're gonna talk about Troy Milton
29:54
Speaker 3: a little bit.
29:55
Speaker 2: More.
29:55
Speaker 1: I mean, we we gloss over that way too much.
30:03
Speaker 1: I was prepared to have this be a really late
30:05
Speaker 1: night because if there's a no hitter or perfect game,
30:10
Speaker 1: like you know, you gotta do your thing and and
30:14
Speaker 1: so like we would have we would have been burning
30:16
Speaker 1: the midnight oil talk about the greatness of Troy Melton.
30:19
Speaker 1: We don't have to burn the midnight oil, but we
30:20
Speaker 1: can still talk about the greatness of Troy Melton. Who
30:24
Speaker 1: what do you have five pitches that he got punchouts
30:27
Speaker 1: on tonight something like that, Like like just absolutely you know,
30:31
Speaker 1: Tiger's hitters were, you know, in shambles, but for the
30:35
Speaker 1: most part, the Astros hitters were in shambles against Troy
30:37
Speaker 1: Melton too. A couple of deep counts here and there,
30:39
Speaker 1: but you know, he wasn't perfect, even though he was
30:41
Speaker 1: almost perfect.
30:43
Speaker 3: I mean, what an outing, really impressive sitting ninety nine
30:47
Speaker 3: with the fastball cutters hitting ninety five. I mean, it
30:51
Speaker 3: was just nasty. It was another level. He's been really
30:54
Speaker 3: good and it was this was I think his his
30:57
Speaker 3: absolute best and kind of a reminder like this guy
31:01
Speaker 3: still has not pitched this much. This guy's two years
31:04
Speaker 3: removed from having a five era in double A. He's
31:07
Speaker 3: still tweaking some things, he's still getting better, But then
31:11
Speaker 3: you look at it and it's pitch eighty three in
31:14
Speaker 3: a third innings in the major leagues. Right now, his
31:17
Speaker 3: career era is two point five to nine. Like, all
31:20
Speaker 3: this guy has done is dominate. He's been better than
31:23
Speaker 3: Jackson Job. He's been better than Derek Scugall at the
31:26
Speaker 3: start of his career. He has just entered and done
31:29
Speaker 3: his job and again still getting better. Continuing to miss
31:33
Speaker 3: bats a little bit more like he did Thursday night
31:36
Speaker 3: is probably really the key for him. I think he's
31:38
Speaker 3: like bottom seven percent island strikeout rate, bottom fourteen percent's
31:41
Speaker 3: island with rate. So keep missing some bats with that
31:45
Speaker 3: cutter and you can kind of answer probably the biggest question.
31:50
Speaker 3: Really encouraging and terrible that the Zeiger's lost such a game,
31:53
Speaker 3: But as I kind of wrote, like, if you want
31:55
Speaker 3: to really zoom out this guy, man, this guy could
31:59
Speaker 3: really alter how you feel next year. Let's say you
32:03
Speaker 3: lose Scoople. If Melton continues to assert himself as a
32:07
Speaker 3: as a top of the rotation type guy, I mean,
32:10
Speaker 3: you feel a lot better about your rotation. You feel
32:12
Speaker 3: a lot better about the twenty twenty seven Tigers. It
32:15
Speaker 3: might be Scott Harris's best hope right now might be
32:18
Speaker 3: Troy Troy Melton continuing to ascend to being a frontline starter.
32:24
Speaker 3: This is an important, important guy for the franchise. I
32:28
Speaker 3: think it's been really fun to watch him continue to
32:31
Speaker 3: pitch and continue to find different ways to get better
32:34
Speaker 3: in such a short time period.
32:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know he is.
32:39
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned School at the star of his career.
32:42
Speaker 1: We can throw Mies in there too, and some of
32:44
Speaker 1: these other kind of top pitching prospects that we've kind
32:47
Speaker 1: of seen blossom into in School's case, the best pitcher
32:50
Speaker 1: on the planet, Mis's case, an all star, and the
32:52
Speaker 1: guy's you know, pret damn good right now. Uh, the
32:56
Speaker 1: confidence level that you have and then I I guess
33:00
Speaker 1: I'm speaking for myself, and Melton right now greatly surpasses
33:04
Speaker 1: what we were seeing from School early on, from Mys
33:07
Speaker 1: early on, you know, throwing the guys that didn't necessarily
33:10
Speaker 1: work out, Matt Manning, you know, like Alex Vato, like
33:14
Speaker 1: you know, Tie Matt, and like all these guys technically
33:17
Speaker 1: higher draft picks, all those guys than than Melton and
33:21
Speaker 1: even Jackson Joe like like the the completeness of which
33:25
Speaker 1: Melton throws the game is far beyond his years, and
33:31
Speaker 1: one that does make you just kind of if you
33:34
Speaker 1: want to let your mind wander to something positive, like
33:36
Speaker 1: what could this really be?
33:38
Speaker 2: Is an actual, really exciting thought.
33:40
Speaker 1: And and again, had they won today, we'd be waxing
33:44
Speaker 1: poetic about a lot of things and he would have
33:45
Speaker 1: been near the top of the list. And unfortunately, you know,
33:49
Speaker 1: it's it's our fault. I'll take the l on that.
33:51
Speaker 1: I just kind of got got in my feels about
33:53
Speaker 1: other stuff. But Melton, But but Melton was great. Melton
33:56
Speaker 1: was great, And you have to wonder what his ceiling
33:59
Speaker 1: is because if this is, if this is the floor, look.
34:04
Speaker 3: Out for sure. The only other thing I want to
34:07
Speaker 3: say I did I saw Scott Harrison Jeff Greenberg leaving
34:12
Speaker 3: the clubhouse after the game, and it almost felt bad
34:14
Speaker 3: for him. So they just looked like dudes who had
34:16
Speaker 3: a bad day at work, probably because it was a
34:19
Speaker 3: bad day at work, because every loss right now for
34:22
Speaker 3: the Tigers is a bad day on the job. You
34:24
Speaker 3: can you're really starting to feel the weight of each
34:28
Speaker 3: game and ways good and bad. It feels great when
34:29
Speaker 3: they win, the losses hit. I feel like they're hitting heavy,
34:35
Speaker 3: as they should given what's at stake here.
34:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, good note I mean, and then I feel it
34:41
Speaker 1: just watching on TV, just like the the the flation
34:45
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, and then just the elation of
34:49
Speaker 1: of you know, of the wins and what could be possible.
34:51
Speaker 1: Like I said, I do believe it's in there, but
34:54
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not good enough right now, so we
34:57
Speaker 1: all continue to monitor it every step of the way. Hey,
35:00
Speaker 1: thank you everybody for following us on x formly know
35:01
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Cody Stavenhagen. I'm at kan Overscore Steckley
35:04
Speaker 1: Pop page at Tiger Territory Underscore, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, You guys.
35:08
Speaker 2: Know what to do.
35:08
Speaker 1: We appreciate all of you. So for Cody stave Inhagen,
35:11
Speaker 1: I'm Kieran Steckley. Everybody, have a great day.