Latest / GAIN Momentum / CRM-Centric Design to Grow Total Revenues Per Guest | with Angel Ferrufino

Transcript

CRM-Centric Design to Grow Total Revenues Per Guest | with Angel Ferrufino · GAIN Momentum

• GAIN Momentum episode #87: CRM-Centric Design to Grow Total Revenues Per Guest | with Angel Ferrufino === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the GAIN Momentum Podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, food service, travel, and technology. I'm joined today by an Angel Ferrufino. He is the Co-founder and CEO of CRQLAR, Angel, how's it going? Angel Ferrufino: Absolutely fine. Thanks for inviting me and I'm very excited to be, uh, on the podcast, Adam. Adam Mogelonsky: And you're joining us today from Vienna Veen. Angel Ferrufino: Absolutely correct. And you pronounced Veen? Absolutely. Yes. I'm right now sitting in the wonderful city of Vienna, uh, Austrian Europe. Correct. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Uh, yeah. Angel Ferrufino: Uh, you're improving your German, uh, all the time, so, um, congrats on that. Adam Mogelonsky: Uh, Don. So, um, first question, give us, what is the elevator pitch for CRQLAR? What is CRQLAR? Angel Ferrufino: Well, um. Lemme start with the vision of CRQLAR our vision of, of CRQLAR is to transform guest data into personalized experiences at at luxury hotels Adam Mogelonsky: Mm-hmm Angel Ferrufino: by connecting all relevant IT tools in, luxury hotels in uh, in a hotel in luxury hotels. So what we do is we connect all that data, uh, we merge and clean that data, and also with the help of ai, we then create one centralized and very clean, uh, guest profile where we capture all the interest and preferences of that guest. And that allows Hoteliers to really, uh, do personalized, um, outreach per, create personalized experiences, um, without overwhelming staff with complex. Uh, tools. So that's, that's what we do. It's all about personalization. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. And one of the more unique aspects of CRQLAR is that you have three main modules that can connect directly into the CRM, um, a restaurant, uh, management and booking software, spa management and booking, and a hotel app. Can you describe those, those features? Angel Ferrufino: Oh, yes. Um, well, when we started, um, and, and founded our company, we, we reached out to, uh. Multiple stakeholders within the industry. And, uh, what they reported to us is that they have, uh, a lot of IT tools in operation in their, um, it, uh, tech stack. And, uh, so they have, they have a restaurant system, they have a spa system, they do have a CRM. They do have an app, booking engine and so on. But none of them is really, really connected in one centralized, uh, platform. So, uh, what we did is, um. Customers, uh, and we're based in Austria, uh, told us, Hey, are you able to build those modules? Which at the moment are data silos, standalone solutions, not fully integrated with our CRM, or not even with other systems. So then, yes, we built. Uh, the spa, booking engine, small management system. We then also built the, uh, restaurant system and then on top of it, uh, we are then also included in our suite of products. Our hotel app, because the hotel app is obviously guest facing where we can easily integrate our own restaurant system. So a guest can easily book his favorite table through the app, but also can book easily, um, and very comfortable his own favorite spa therapy through the app. So it doesn't make sense for us to have these, uh, and on modules because all of that data. Which we get from our own products will be seamlessly integrated into our core, which is this CRM. So it will enrich, uh, the gas profile by those data points, and especially the interest and preferences coming from those um, areas. So that means we help hotels to fully understand who my guest is, not only from. The CRM, um, standpoint, but also from really all these outlets where the guest does make and generate revenues coming into the core CRM system. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. And. What I'm getting from your answer is that it was an evolution that was led by user. User demanded, or user oriented features that they, that they wanted and requested. So, So what I, what I wanna wondering is if you could just give us a little bit more background information on the founding of CRQLAR. How that came about. And one thing I've observed is that with hotel technology, a lot of the companies are, they're founded out of a frustration over an industry challenge and the yearning to help solve that challenge for hotels. So could you unpack whether that was the case or if not, and the founding of CRQLAR or the, and your part co-founding it as well? Angel Ferrufino: Yes, uh, that's true. Yeah. I'm more than happy to share that, that story. First of all, um, the audience needs to understand that we, as co-founders and myself, we were, um, we're not from hospitality. We do come from other industries and predominantly from digitalization and automation. We were not in hospitality before founding of CRQLAR. So the founding story is that we were invited at a five star hotel in 2021 in a little valley in Austria. Really, really wonderful five star hotel. Family owned a leisure hotel, and we had a two day workshop where we talked about the importance of data in generally speaking. And after this two-day workshop, the owner approached us and congratulated us for having that workshop. However, she told us very, very, um, directly and said, we in hospitality have a huge problem with data. And we were like, okay, tell us more. She said, we sit on a gold mine of data, but we cannot use it. That attracted our interest and we kept asking questions and said, why? And she told us that the hospitality industry is dominated by a lot of fragmented data silos, which are not connected. So if you think, um, in a German speaking countries, uh, around, uh, they're around 13 to 15 IT tools. In operation while at the same time they store up to 30 different guest profiles in these IT tools. So she told us about that huge problem that hotels, which is a shame, do not fully load their guests. And that attracted our interest and we at the beginning thought. That's maybe only, um, a little pain, a little pain in a little valley in Austria. And after going into stealth mode, six to eight months, talking to various stakeholders, uh, in Austria, in the dark, uh, German speaking countries in Europe, uh, city hotels, leisure hotels, uh, small chains, big brands, guess what, uh, they all confirm the same. It's a huge problem. It's a global phenomenon. Then out of that we saw that the market is big, the problem is big. So we said, okay, let's build CRQLAR with that vision to transform guest data into personalized experiences. And that was in 2022. And then we. Built our first MVP, really, really in close collaboration with these hotel owners. And, uh, quickly afterwards, we landed, yeah, the first wave of customers, um, single loan customers, but also small and medium sized chains. Uh, that was 2022 onwards. So that's the story of, of our, um, of our company. Adam Mogelonsky: It's actually very recent too, 2022. It's just the time is just flying by and you've had a lot of success over the past three years. Angel Ferrufino: Uh, thank you very much. Uh, yes, we were very successful at the same time. Obviously it's hard work, uh, to, to become that successful. Um, I think one of the key, um, success factors is to be really be very close to the market, to really understand the pain of, uh, hoteliers And again, as. We were not from the industry. We had a very, very, very close look at their pain points and, and very much taking care of it and paying attention to every single detail to better understand the pain and then, uh, thereafter define the best solution for solving, uh, that pain. So, yes, that's true. Adam Mogelonsky: Okay, and we're talking the dock market, Deutschland, Austria, confe ti, the three German speaking countries in the world, although they have different dialects. And you are based out of Vienna. Can you describe. What it's like to have a company specifically in that market and in Vienna versus other territories. Angel Ferrufino: Yes, for us, um, we see Austria as a, as a. Great, great, great market for, uh, for starting a a, a hospitality venture for a couple of reasons. Um, first, it's really one of the vibrant hotel markets within Europe, so you need to understand that tourism is one of the, the backbones of our entire economy in Austria. So we receive, um, high number of guests of travelers visiting our country, and also obviously the main city, which is Vienna, but also Salzburg and SBO and other cities. And also not only the cities, but also um, the regions outside of the cities. Because we have wonderful, um, um, landscapes and wonderful mountains, summer tourism, and also winter tourism. So we are blessed with this high number of travelers and visitors. So that makes us, uh, very, very special in terms of having all those fantastic four and five star hotels in the country and at the same time. Yes, I'm now based here in in Vienna. I do sit in Vienna. Our head office is in the western part of Austria, which is Innsbrook. And the reason why it's Innsbrook is we already had some kind of, uh, at the beginning of the founding of our company, some kind of structure there. So we knew the place very well. My co-founder is from that city, from that region, and number two in the western part of Austria. Uh, there. We have in total in Austria, more than 2004 and five star hotels, more than 2000, more than 90% are family owned. And, and the substantial part of these 2000 hotels, being family owned in the leisure segment are in the western part of Austria. So for us, it makes very much sense to be headquartered in the western part of Austria. Because we have a close collaboration and with the, uh, with the hotel owners, which are really, really just, you know, around our office. So out of that, we can learn much faster and can build much faster, um, solutions for these hotels. So that's, yeah, that's a bit about Austria and why we are in Innsbrook and or, uh, in Vienna. It's a, it's a great, it's a great market. It's a great region to be in, in hospitality. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, it, it can be quite opening to know just the. Just the sheer volume of hotels that are in Western Austria. And then also the timeless lesson of being close to that market in order to speak directly with hotels and understand their requests for features and for implementation, and ensuring they're using the software correctly. And I think that may be overlooked as for larger companies that operate globally in terms of interacting one-to-one with the hotels that are there. to move on to what a CRM can enable, I wanna start locally with that area. And when we're talking about Western Austria, we, we are talking about the Alps. So there may be some very specific features that you've built around Alpine hotels, ski based features and marketing. Then trying to use the CRM to build year round occupancy and not just the seasonality of ski and summer hiking, based traveler activities. So can you talk to us about how CRM enables personalization at scale for Austrian Alpine properties? Angel Ferrufino: Yes. Uh, thanks for raising that, that, that question. Um, Adam, well, first, um, we truly believe that the CRM, or we do see the CRM as a hub, obviously. Now, having said that, it's a guest centric. So it's all about the guest and the guest. It's is in the core of the operation of, uh, the business of a hotel. That's number one. Number two is, having said that, is in order to enable personalization to help hotels drive revenues through personalization, we do need integrations. Meaning we need to connect to other systems to capture valuable data, which can then be merged, cleaned, and then, um, stored and enrich in the gas profile. So that means yes, we do have integrations with, uh, other PMS vendors. And if you look at the PMS, uh, market in Austrian or dark regions, there are dominant players, uh, in the market where we do have the integrations with. Also other regional PMS, uh, providers where we do also have, uh, integrations with. So that's, that's number one. That's, that's the foundation. Uh, that's, that's, uh, precondition. Integrations with PMS vendors, with other, um, providers to capture relevant, uh, data. Not only PMS, but also voucher assistance, loyalty platforms, um, but also payment providers. We have a premium provider here in, in Austria, which is, has a huge market share. We do have that integration. So having said all of that, that's the precondition number two. How can then a CRM help is. By helping hotel staff members getting the right information at the right moment for delivering that wonderful magic wow moment during and, um, interaction with the guest. How does this work? So if we capture all this data from the restaurant, from spa, from the app, from other sources, and we enrich the guest profile, we can create interests, number one. Then out of the interest we can also create through AI recommendations and we prompt that recommendation, um, to the relevant staff member. Let's say the front office manager. At the right time, which could be the checkin process. So then the use case might be that you add in, you do the checkin, and our valuable platform will, um, throw the recommendation at you by telling you, by telling the front office manager. Hey Adam, it's great to have you back. Great to see you again. Can I serve you your favorite drink your whiskey sour as your welcome drink and you will get your welcome drink, the Pi sour or whiskey sour, or through that recommendation we will trigger upselling potential so that the front office manager only tells you. Hey Adam, it's great to be to have you here. I know that you are very, very, a spa lover. You love the full body, uh, massage. 90 minutes. Actually we have a free spot for you tomorrow at 4:00 PM Would you like me to book that for you? And you would say, oh, yes, go ahead. Uh, wonderful. So these are elements, these are features that help staff members to get the appropriate at their fingertips information through an action. Which then through a smile in their face will be delivered to the guest. And then the guest is very much happy to get those personalized experiences and that will lead to increased revenue. And at the same time, no additional effort for the staff member because it's everything is at their fingertips. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, it's very interesting, uh, when we're talking about recommendations and the lensing of data where you know that a guest has 50 different attributes, uh, in their profile, but then you can give the front desk agent just that one note, sort of the spa note, and really, really lends that around selling that 4:00 PM time slot that's open. I haven't really seen that be possible without the very rich integration of spa, of the spa system and, and the CRM to enable that and then push that through to, um, the PMS if that's what the system that the guest service agent is looking at, at the front desk. So that's, that is very cool. And that's, uh, sort of the holy grail towards, uh, looking at. Total revenues in terms of really developing a way to increase revenue per guest and really know their guests, and that's a onsite occasion. Then there's also the post departure in terms of getting guests to come back based on what you know. Um, one area I wanna touch upon with a CRM is the metrics in terms of how you actually measure the value of guests. We have RFM. Recency frequency, monetary value, and then we have, uh, LTV lifetime value or CLV customer lifetime value. Can you give us a description of those three and why they're important, uh, for CRM? Yeah. Angel Ferrufino: Well, obviously the whole thing is absolutely true. Should. Need to focus on metrics. Uh, that's number one. So it's very essential to have, um, figures in metrics in front of you, um, because then, um, you will be able to manage your property in a much more effective way. So that's number one. Number two is, yes, you, you pointed out a recency frequency, uh, monetary obviously if. I need to know as a hotel owner, how, how recent have I been here in, in my hotel? How often do I visit my hotel? And ultimately I need to know how much money do I spend while being in my hotel. So these are RFM Uh, metrics are absolutely key. Any CRM should reflect, uh, on those metrics and should help, uh, users to really, um, get valuable insights about those metrics, you know, at their fingertips by ease. So that's number one. Number two, obviously, um. if you have, you know, there are different type of, of, hotels, city hotels, leisure hotels, you may focus on different metrics. Um, so I'd say if you are very much into leisure hotels where the frequency is not as in a city hotel, where maybe a business traveler comes, uh, every four to six, eight weeks because of a business trip. But in a leisure hotel, the frequency is maybe only once a year. So then the customer lifetime value for the monetary aspect of RFM Metric does matter more to you because if that guest only comes once a year, but spends 17,000 euros, that has an impact to you and how you will treat that guest when this guest appears the next time. and in terms of how you treat that. I guess in terms of loyalty, in terms of VIP status and also in terms of personalized experiences. So RFM, customer lifetime value do matter a lot. I do also see guest segmentation engagement, uh, as a, as a metric that does, does matter. So. I'd say these three metrics around the RFM um, customer lifetime manual, but also guest segmentation engagement, depending on the hotel type, um, are important to hotels. And then you need to break it down based on the hotel type where you, um, have more the focus on, on, on the metrics. But in any case, the CRM should cover the business model. You are operating as a hotel Hotelier and should help you to really provide you the insights. Of these metrics, no matter, uh, which hotel type you, you manage or you operate. Adam Mogelonsky: And another important. Spoke from this data that we can incorporate is feedback, guest reviews, sentiment surveys, satisfaction, and that can tie into the estimated, uh, lifetime value because of how it affects the RFM. Um, somebody who's unhappy with your hotel, uh, their frequency goes from. Twice a year to zero times per year. Right. Uh, so how should a CRM incorporate feedback data to then update guest profiles and the modeling based on those profiles? Angel Ferrufino: Yeah. Um, we definitely see this ate the survey. What you're just mentioning, referring to in order to capture feedback from guests after at this day is absolutely crucial. So it's obviously part of the entire digital journey, pre-state, during stay and post day. So that's number one. Number two is, um, coming back to your question, how CRM can incorporate that. Well, it should Incorporate that. Incorporate it. Definitely. It, it for, for us it's a must have feature. And the way it should be implemented in a, in a CRM is that, um, you create, establish automated, um, lifecycle emails or automated trigger emails based on triggers or events. Let's say three days after, uh, the departure of that guest, an automated email will be sent to that guest where the survey is part of that. Having said that is that obviously the guest should open that survey and easily fill out the form and then this answers the feedback. No matter if it's structured, meaning by check boxes or unstructured by notes, should should flow back into the CRM. It should be analyzed. It should be also with the help of AI analyzed and categorized, and then automatically the gas profile should be enriched so that then the CRM will be able to even fine tune the existing interests and preferences based on that incoming new feedback. So that is important because then the recommendations are getting. Way better, smarter. So then ultimately, again, the front office manager or any other staff member will get a more accurate, a more smarter recommendation based on that feedback before, which then again enables the front office manager to deliver a better guest experience through personalization, which again drives revenue. So you see, it's, it's everything's interconnected. It's, it's, it's a circle. It's, it's, it's a constant flow of data, which is then processed. Then it's, it's processed into information, and then it's processed towards actionable insights. Take action and deliver that experience to the guest that creates wow moment, a magic moment, and that, uh, then the chances are very, very high that this guest is so happy and will say, wow. I will come back because this hotel takes care of me. They understand me, they listen to me, even if it's in the form, but they took care of me, and that's a big differentiator and CRQLAR helps hotels to achieve that. Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, we're talking about here, uh, having intelligence to inform models and, and future business outcomes. And I'm wondering, uh. Besides Western Austria, which is largely mountainous and maybe more resorts, there are a large category of city hotels, and this is very different in terms of what they're looking for, uh, from their CRM. So can you talk about how RF or um, or any other metric changes for different categories of hotels and maybe give some examples. Angel Ferrufino: Absolutely. Um, I completely agree that. Based on the type of hotels, city hotels versus leisure resorts, they will have a different angle into the metrics. Uh, as I said before, there are RFM um, metric. It will most likely be the focus, uh, different between a city hotel and the leisure hotel. Uh, because as again, and we see that very, very often, hotels in, in in leisure segment resorts. They have guests returning guests once, maybe twice a year, but they spend a fortune, they spend a a hell lot of money, uh, during that holiday. Uh, so it's very important that you understand that as a Hotelier, that these guests, these guests, um, to spend more money during one stay in one stay, while others may be in a city hotel. They state they come 10 times in your hotel, but if you sum up all the entire revenue, it will be less than this guest compared in that leisure hotel in one state. So again, the CRM must allow the hotel to get those insights. It must. Enable you to build around that business models, these metrics. And then also based on, uh, the recommendations is to deliver the correct recommendation, the smart recommendation for the correct metric metric based on the type of hotel to the correct user. Adam Mogelonsky: And one other element that I wanted to touch on with this. Different city hotels, high frequency, fast guests, uh, or guests that are in and out. And then leisure, hotels, resorts where you have less frequent stays, but higher revenue per guest, more total revenues. One important part of all this that I think is foundational to Western Austria is wellness, and it's being reflected in. Some of the best spas in the world are in these hotels, and we're seeing that as a key driver, and I'm wondering what data points can you pick up for those hotels to inform more stays, more meaningful stays, and more revenue per guest from those days? What can you do from a data side to really enhance and make wellness sing for a hotel? Angel Ferrufino: Due to the fact that we can really deliver our own spa management software, that's obviously a big differentiator. It's a big plus. A big USP and hoteliers do see that value very much. Um, What's the actual situation at the moment? In many cases, yes. The hotel leisure. Hotel resorts, they operate a spa area. Wonderful. A great spa area. However, the spa system is in many cases. An independent software, a data silo in many cases. So the problem is that the Hotelier does not fully understand and fully know what this guest in the spa area is consuming, which treatments, because it's not connected with the CRM in many cases, he doesn't know what's the overall spend in the spa area by that guest and. He will also not know what exact treatment, which is my preferred treatment, what this guest loves, nor will the Hotelier, um, capture who is the favorite, um, therapist performing that therapy for that specific guest. So, and by. Using, let's say CRQLAR, uh, spa management, uh, software, you will be able to capture all of that, all of that. Plus with the information we get from other areas, restaurant through the app, through the PMS system, through the loyalty system, through the voucher system, we do get a much, much, much, much, uh, we get more insights about that guest. Having also in mind that the spa, uh, area is, um, in many cases, or it is a profit center, so revenues are generated there. So then the hotel owner can then easily use that valuable information captured from the spa area by again doing that, um, recommendations and delivering the guest experience saying, Hey. We know, Adam, you love hot stone massage. We know you love hot stone massage because you have booked it in your last three stay eight times. So the probability is very high that again, you will book the hot stone massage and then CRQLAR will help the staff owner to prompt that action and then to, um, really trigger that appell to make that booking for that additional hot stone. Massage. So it's again, the USPS that it's seamlessly integrated. You are no longer, you're no longer a black box as a spa guest. No longer. Now hotels will fully understand that you are a spa lover, Adam, that you are a spa lover. And if you know as a guest that they know that I am a spa lover, you, you will feel more comfortable and more happy. Knowing that they take care of me here because it's the hot stone massage that I really love with my therapist, Marcus. Adam Mogelonsky: One other element to wellness is the longevity side, and this is where we get a little bit, um. Futuristic in our discussion, but one of the things with CLV in a CRM is that you have to assume how long a guest's lifetime is to then predict how much money you can make off them. What longevity, pretend portends for the world, particularly in Austria and. The dock market is people living beyond the age of a hundred. So therefore, the value of a CRM goes up because rather than having an expected lifetime value based on 20 years of marketing and having guests come back, you can now base it on 40. So can you describe the intersection there of how. CRM can enable the longevity economy and really trying to market and market to guests over a 40 year lifespan of that guest and also develop long-term relationships. Mm-hmm. Angel Ferrufino: Yes, I, I truly believe so. I completely agree with you. Um, that obviously we also see that trend, uh, very much here in Aust and the German speaking countries. Longevity. Uh, a lot of, uh, hotels do approach us about this topic, and we have intense discussion about that topic. So yes, it's a very hot topic. Uh, that's definitely what I can say. Um, I truly believe that a CRM, any CRM that really captures the. the. interests of a guest and now especially in that area, uh, over a long period of time, will help the hotel owner to better understand how that guest has evolved, uh, how that guest started being in that longevity journey. And after 3, 5, 10 years where that guest is standing at that particular point in time. And obviously, um, if then, um, AI comes into place, machine learning, uh, algorithms and then prediction engines based on all the data points captured over that very long period of time, then the probability is very high that this predictions are more accurate than just focusing on, on a, on a very unlimited number of data points. So. Again, uh, for us it's very much about capturing those interests over a very long period of time. Getting that underlying data and everything is around centered, around enriching the guest profiles, uh, guest profile with that interest. That is, that is fundamental. That is fundamental because you can really, really see the, the, the journey of, of that guest. And if you see the journey, you can take action, immediate action in order to, uh, yeah, drive revenues, but also deliver better gas experience to, to these longevity guests. Adam Mogelonsky: Which, uh, you know, having a better guest experience for the longevity focused guest then determines more revenues because you're closing the circle in terms of saying, well, a great guest experience. Then we know that we can get them to keep coming back over a 40 year, uh, 40 year lifetime. And we're not focused so much on recency or frequency. We're focused on the long-term value of saying, well, they're gonna come once a year for something that is a very high total spend. So it's, it's actually quite beautiful in that way. Angel Ferrufino: Absolutely correct. I I completely agree with that. Yes, absolutely. Adam Mogelonsky: So, um, with longevity in mind. What's the future of a CRM look like? For a hotel? Angel Ferrufino: Well, we first, how do we see CRM? Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Angel Ferrufino: I'd like to emphasize that we see the CRM as as a dominant hub within the it, um, tech stack. That's number one, and that means it has the guest in its core. Having said that, it also means that it's not the room in its core. If you look at the entire it, uh, landscape text. Within a hotel property. That's number one. Number two, what else do we see in the future? We really see the CRM as evolving more and more towards, let's say, a true intelligent layer of a hotel. And how is that possible to become a really true intelligence element layer within a hotel is. And I said that before, and I will repeat myself here because it's really, really important is, is enhancing the capabilities of capturing guest interests through, as an example, a voice note, as an as an example, or improve. Once you have captured this interest, improve how you can better enrich the guest profiles around these guest's insights. Number two. And what, where we also see the future is creating much more, let's say, improved smarter recommendations and predictions. Because over the time, a CRM will capture more and more valuable data through these integrations, and you can make use of that valuable data to improve your recommendations and your predictions. So. I see, we see personally the CRM or actually how we see CRQLAR in the future is to make hospitality more personalized. That's, that's our aim. Make hospitality more personalized. Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. That's a great way to finish off. Is there anything else that you wanna mention about CRQLAR or CRMs or specific features? Angel Ferrufino: Um, let me think for a second, Adam. Well, yeah. What crosses my mind is, is any CRM, what's very critical is it should be easy to use. Adam Mogelonsky: Hmm. Okay. Angel Ferrufino: So, so user interface, uh, user experience, ease of use is absolutely critical. So, for instance, at CRQLAR, we are really, really much focusing on, we call it dumb it down. Initiative to really make it as simple as possible so that um, users, staff members can easily adopt that CRQLAR and are happy with using the software, um, because ultimately it'll lead them to deliver these guest experiences. And also, uh, you know what Circlers aim is to make hospitality more personalized. So it's ease of use. Adam Mogelonsky: Wow. Yeah. That is so important because we have to take the staff members in mind who are using, using these systems day in day out. Angel, it's been a fantastic. 42 minute conversation. Uh, thank you so much for coming on to discuss, um, CRQLAR CRMs, wellness Austria, and everything. Thank you so much. Angel Ferrufino: Many, many, many thanks. Adam, for having me on the show for inviting me. It has been a real, real, real pleasure. Uh, you, um, surprised me very much with your German speaking skills and, um. Exactly. Not really. Same The next time, the next time we see each other it will be in Spanish. Uh, I'm very much looking forward to that as well. Es uh, so yeah, I really enjoyed it and thank you very much for having me.