Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #394 - For Azeroth!: “XBOX Turmoil"

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#394 - For Azeroth!: “XBOX Turmoil" · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

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Telling your team that there's going to be another 1600 for all
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eliminations or or layoffs over the next year is really hard.
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I think just having people work with like a a sword over their
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head sucks. Victory for the Forsaken.
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For Lauderon. For the Karen Tour for Pandaria.
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For calendar to the. Burning region for Gilnaeus
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Sindori, for the Alliance, for the Horde, for Azeroth.
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Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
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I am your host, Manny Akie, the true really Manny.
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And I am joined by the lovely, the ever wonderful Lex rants.
0:58
Hello Lex, how are you? I was going to say luscious and
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I'm like, that seems weird. I was trying for an alliteration
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thing and it was just like, no, no, abandoned that.
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But how's the way to work after you?
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I thought I'd be chewing you into loquacious because we did
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have. I had a little conversation with
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my boss this week about how I don't need to send four
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paragraph long emails every single time I talk to her.
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Yeah, so bless up. But yeah, I'm doing well.
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The World of Warcraft is treating me very well.
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Actually. We got AOTC this week, so I have
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officially gotten all my fun little goals.
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I'm still trying to figure out exactly what I'm going to do
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next season, whether I'm going to go back to Demon Hunter or
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stay on heels. So and I just today played
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through the new storyline, which I was able to grind out in a
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couple hours. So good to know.
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Although do bear in mind, don't make the mistake that I made.
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There's a place midway through they're going to make you go
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through a dungeon and one of the bosses has something you have to
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pick up. And if you are in a mythic plus
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group, you are not going to think, oh, I need to loot a boss
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because you don't loot bosses in mythic plus.
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And then if you do that and leave, you'll have to go through
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very grumpy in a follower dungeon to get to that point.
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Stupid. Nobody knows how to stupid stuff
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so don't do that. Or do if you really wanted to
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have a really bad follower dungeon.
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Very unnecessary follower dungeon if you've already done
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an on Mythic Plus. Understood.
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Understood. Yeah, but like, you'd have to
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get the right key for Mythic Plus.
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It's an entire ordeal, yeah. There are a lot of groups for
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this dungeon going right now. I, I pugged A10 also, it's the
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first time I've solo pugged on as a healer, I think since I
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last played healer. So I'm feeling very proud of
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myself, very excited. It was very good.
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I did yell at the tank. The tank was mean, but not to
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me. And that's the joy of finally
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being kind of good at mythic plus.
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I get to now be the person who if somebody else decides to be
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mean in the mythic plus, I get to yell at them and I can
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because I did a good job. This, if anything is going to
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convince me to be good at mythic plus, it's the fact that I then
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get to step in and be like, hey, it's a learning key.
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You don't get to yell at them. If you didn't want to do a
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learning key, you shouldn't have.
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I signed up for a learning key but also like learning key and
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we timed it like so they're shutting up.
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OK. I mean, yeah, yeah, we're not
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going to go into the entire story of like maybe they were
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trying to be helpful at the end of the day and stuff.
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I do they. Were not they they did this one
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made me feel like now I feel kind of silly and embarrassed
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that I even brought up the time the tank yelled at me because
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the tank in Rep like in comparison was very nice.
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The tank today literally was like horrid job but or a 10 and
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I was like if you don't shut up and we timed it I don't
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understand. The guy died on like all the
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bosses would like arguably was my fault.
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It wasn't because he was standing and soft, but whatever.
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It was a learning key. Get over it.
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OK, I'm, I'm really happy to hear this, like the continued
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adventures in mythic plus you getting into healing, pugging
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through it like that's that's something that sometimes, like,
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I mean, actually this week I've been struggling with because I
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decided to switch from elemental backed enhancement because I'm
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going to go into enhancement next next season.
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And I figure I've got the extra catalyst charges.
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I can crash stuff on cheap right now.
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This seems like the time to make the switch rather than trying to
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do it while I'm gearing up next season.
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And we're going to be talking a lot about 12.1 in the coming
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episode. So stay tuned for that.
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But it was also about like getting that change of pace and
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actually going back more to my comfort.
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Like I like elemental. It has some very cool things.
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And when you're like doing the burst damage like a God,
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lightning God, it feels super powerful.
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And then again, you have to spend a lot of time outside of
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that point where you are struggling to keep any kind of
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relevant DPS. Enhancement has a bit of that
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same issue, a little bit of like that living in your cooldowns.
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But because of a couple of things, it's not as bad.
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Some point I will have like maybe a Shaman talk episode or
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something, something we'll get, we'll get word up or something
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in there and we could talk about it.
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Because there's a lot of changes coming in 12.1 too.
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Many of the classes we talked about the preset and the episode
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that we released came out late because the guys I was on
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vacation. I'm sorry I dropped the ball,
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but I also got to like sip some nice drinks have some great
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company yeah I I don't I don't feel super guilty.
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So I'm sorry, not sorry In a time between when we recorded
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that episode and when the episode released, couple of
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things happened and I want to mark this.
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Lex was talking about oh man, this bonus and it giving haste
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and like I don't want haste and please and got some feedback.
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And so Lex, what happened with that tear set?
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Yeah, it's Crit strike now, which is our number 1.
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So it's the same thing, which I will say after I started
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thinking about how renew exists within the game, it did make
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more sense to me. Like I if I look at things, I do
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usually have renew stacks on everyone just based on how I'm
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used to pull down stuff. But yes, hopefully it's still
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based on how many renew stacks have I think still capped it 6%.
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It's still capped at the same number.
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Yeah. So 2% per stack, three of them
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capping at six. Yeah.
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Stunning perfect. But now it's it's 6% crit
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stripe, which is much more useful for a holy.
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So we are all very happy about that, or at least I am.
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I haven't talked to other holy, maybe they all hate it.
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I mean, like based on what they said, feedback was there and
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crit was a much more desirable stat and that was good.
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I also like that I was also a bit vindicated, we'll say,
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because they said, listen, the haste was there to like interact
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with the renew and make renew that much better, which, you
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know, faster ticks on the renew be that you get like a more
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upfront benefit from that, which is cool.
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You know, stronger ticks from crit would also do that effect.
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So hey, I, I get a bit of I, I guess I understood what they
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were going for and I guess you guys understood what they should
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have done. And so Blizzard has now switched
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that over to crit, which is amazing.
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The other thing that happened is that we got a couple of builds
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for 12.1. In fact, one came out yesterday
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as of this recording, one came out just after our recording,
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but the dungeons just became available for testing.
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And again, I really want to get into that.
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But the third thing happened this week that we want to talk
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about first, and that is Microsoft going absolutely
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berserk. And it has been a bit of a
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bloodbath at Microsoft Studios with the new management coming
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in. We have now seen cuts of 32,000
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roles being being set up with 1600 of those roles being
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immediate and another 1600 set up.
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Sorry, I forget what the time frame was.
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This is in the new feud in the near future where it is 16,000
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eliminations today and in addition for studios will leave
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Xbox to new management and then the other 1600 are going to be
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throughout the fiscal year 27. So over the course of the next
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fiscal year, which we that's, that is a lot.
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And so, yeah, Lex, what was happening when you heard this
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news? What was what?
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What in the world was going on in your circles and the impact
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of this news? Yeah, so this one I actually
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found through a New York Times news alert, which usually is not
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relevant by gaming. I was like in the middle of the
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work day. Yeah, it's tough.
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This is a so we, you know, my friend group of chatted about
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this a lot. We have some folks who like know
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folks, Blizzard Circle and everything.
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And it's it's hard, right? And it's scary.
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I think this is a rough way. I won't claim to understand
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management at a high enough level that I can speak to like
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the decision making behind this. I think telling your team that
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there's going to be another 1600 rural eliminations or layoffs
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over the next year is really hard.
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I think just having people work with like a sword over their
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head sucks. I I.
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So. Listening to what Xbox says I do
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like I get it right, like they're hemorrhaging money now.
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I obviously my little, you know, workers right self is going to
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be like, wow, I wonder how many CF OS are losing their money.
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But it does sound like they are doing a lot of like not cutting
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from the top top, but like cutting higher level roles.
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And yeah, I think it's just, it's just sad and it's, it's
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hard. And I'm, I'm worried about like,
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I again, I love to be the like. Oh no, the poor Blizzard.
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Like genuine this like working so rushed with so much to do,
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getting all of this, you know, feedback and criticism of I
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think often validly right, like things are, in my opinion,
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obviously coming out rushed, which is not the devs fault, but
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it means the devs, the ones getting yelled at now you've
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lost some folks. It's hard.
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It's not super clear that they said that they are going to cut
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Blizzard among others, but so having all of that and then also
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just like FYI, there's going to be thousands of like, you know,
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well, 1600. So like over 1000 more layoffs.
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You don't know who it could be you, it could be tomorrow, it
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could be in six months. You know, what do you live in?
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Did we have a return to office policy that forced you to live
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in one of the most expensive cities in America?
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It's something like that. I don't know.
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So it feels really bad. The one thing that I'm, I
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haven't really heard a lot of conversation about, obviously
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this is not Blizzard relevant, but it's all of the studios that
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they had purchased and will now be leaving.
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I thought obviously that's better than layoffs, but I, I
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mean, what a studios purchase, there are major layoffs, right?
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Like Blizzard, for example, lost their entire QA department.
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They lost, I think their legal department, like basically
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anything that there would be overlap just got cut.
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So A, now those studios have to figure out how to pull back
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together whatever got removed and B, like, imagine being one
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of those old workers, like, oh, sick.
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OK, so you purchased my job, you laid me off, and then you got
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rid of the company. Like, imagine being one of the
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people working there. We're like, bro, what was the
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point of all this? Why were we?
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And like, I get that. It's like they thought that was
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going to be a good decision of diversifying and bringing them
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other studios. And it has proven to not be as
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good of a. But yeah, man, like, I can't
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even imagine the feelings that must be coming from that.
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Or on the flip side, you know, oh, sick.
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My little company no longer works for the company that has
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decided to hold 1600 layoffs over people's heads to
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presumably try to get them to work significantly harder.
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We get out. So yeah, like, OK, there's a lot
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in what you just discussed or rather said that I'd like to,
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that I'd like to outline. It is horrible in this day and
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age that bad management seems to get the golden parachute while
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the workers seem to suffered the brunt of like the the mistakes.
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Like in this particular case, you're looking at Phil Spencer,
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who left earlier this year was the head of the Xbox division,
13:46
the gaming division. And so hey, he he was basically
13:51
fired and this is the new management coming in.
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So at least there's that. But you again, there is a golden
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parachute with that. He got a lot of compensation as
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he went out the door. And so this new successor, Asha
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Sharma, right, she's come in and she's making these cuts.
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She didn't make the decisions to bring in all these companies.
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So there is there is something about that.
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But this is still people's livelihoods that are getting
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absolutely demolished, destroyed people who would have like moved
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to join these studios. And you're right, there is a lot
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of uncertainty with some of these studios that have been
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sold off to new management. And even worse, there's other
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studios that are still in a bubble where those studios might
14:44
just be shuttered because they can't find somebody to purchase
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that. And it sucks.
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I want to go back to the good old days of more independent
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publishers, more independent development teams and
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developers. Before ABK was swallowed by
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Microsoft, before Blizzard was swallowed by Vendy, right?
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All of these sort of mergers because they think that they're
15:12
so big that they can't fail, but it turns out that they're
15:18
constantly failing and people are constantly paying the price
15:20
for that. And it it is something that I
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think isn't just going to affect the people currently in the
15:29
industry, those who have now lost their job and may leave the
15:36
industry there. Many of them are pro have like
15:39
skills that are applicable to other industries that that
15:42
aren't as fraught with like these constant layoffs.
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So we're going to lose talent there.
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And then there are going to be people who look at this and say,
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I really don't want to get into that industry.
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So future prospects become like what just the the people who are
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crazy enough to like wade into those waters.
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It it's going to hurt a lot in the long run, in the short run.
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And the profit is a quarterly finance like they the letter
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talks about the fact that their business had declined, not that
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the they were as you said hammering money.
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They had invested $20,000, sorry, say 20 thousand $20
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million, maybe twenty $20 billion outside of the ABK
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acquisition and that acquisition was finalized only recently.
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And for them to say like, OK, we need that return of investment
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so quickly. It's it's pretty it's pretty
17:16
insane. Like you like it's saying that
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like if you look through the initial post and it goes through
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you goes through to another one. They talk about their end of the
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fiscal year having like a 3% margin and spending 2020
17:35
billion, right. But the avenue, the revenue has
17:40
declined and yes, that revenue declining by nearly half a
17:46
billion during that time is a lot of money to you or I what
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they sent spent several billion to purchase these companies.
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It's almost a rounding error when you talk about the
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expenditures that they've made to amass what was what was the
18:07
largest, one of the largest game development networks that they
18:12
that they had. And so I just, I feel like it's
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at no point do these companies ever feel that they can absorb
18:22
any of the loss. They always shifted on to the
18:26
people who had no control over their fact that their company
18:31
got purchased out, that their role was made redundant.
18:35
But yet they they shed that weight off and they dumped that
18:40
that load onto them and it and it just feels horrible.
18:45
Yeah, it sucks that the team, the Xbox team was made bad
18:49
decision that the the grunt worker or the one who primarily
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are going to add. Big love out to Fast Dev and of
19:01
everyone at all of the Microsoft studios.
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Like you said Lex, there are still more layoffs incoming and
19:10
that is hanging over the heads of people still at the job as
19:13
well as trying to find and support the people who were
19:17
affected. The there have been post saying
19:22
that nobody who was part of a union at Blizzard has been
19:27
affected in this round I believe.
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I would like to believe that is because of the unionization, but
19:35
that doesn't mean that they are safe entirely.
19:38
It might be that the next half of the layoffs that are upcoming
19:43
are going to be focused on that because they just needed the
19:46
time to work, work in conjunction with the union to
19:51
see what they could cut and we will see.
19:58
Yeah. Well, and unions, I think
20:00
usually will negotiate for things like, oh gosh, I can't
20:05
think of the word, but payment after layoff, right?
20:08
Deferences and some sort of renumeration.
20:12
Yeah, I get that. Yeah.
20:13
So I mean, which, if nothing else, means that you're a little
20:16
bit safer after you get laid off.
20:19
I'm this is a pro you podcast. It most definitely is.
20:25
That is, that is 100% true. This is a programming product,
20:28
Yeah. Because, you know, yeah, we were
20:30
just saying Xbox makes bad choices and so the workers are
20:34
the ones who suffer. You want to know how you protect
20:37
yourself in situations like that?
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You combined with your Co workers and you negotiate as a
20:43
group and you make it so that the you know, people above you
20:47
don't have that, but like don't have have less power over you
20:50
because you are you're joining together, which doesn't only
20:53
have to be unions. There's ways to collectively
20:55
bargain and there's ways to join with your colleagues that are
20:57
not official unions, FYI. But yeah, yeah, that is it's
21:03
it's good that there seems to be some degree of but also, yeah,
21:07
this is just devastating. And like you were saying with
21:09
people not wanting to get in, you know that there's talent
21:13
that will be leaving the industry, there's talent that
21:15
will never join the that could make incredible game and tell
21:20
incredible story. And those folks are less likely
21:26
to go in now. And I think that's sad in its
21:29
owner. And again, just the people
21:31
who've given so much time and energy and work and move to
21:34
these horribly expensive places and put so many hours in and
21:38
given so much of the games we love just getting laid off or
21:43
working with this year hanging over them, that I think is also
21:46
terrible. Outside of outside of the
21:58
unionized groups, which are very much franchise sort of aligned,
22:04
there is a development team that covers World of Warcraft.
22:08
There's that's unionized and that includes many of the the
22:13
supportive roles. There is a team that is for
22:18
Diablo, but there are people that work in the development of
22:27
like new games that aren't quite quite out yet, new franchises
22:31
that aren't quite out yet. Blizzard has an incubator thing
22:35
where we get games like Hearthstone came out of that or
22:39
Rumble or any number of games that might come out in the
22:44
future. Those aren't covered by the by
22:47
the union. And so there are people at
22:51
Blizzard that could be getting hit.
22:56
When you look at Bethesda, another company under the Xbox
23:00
umbrella, they have definitely been hit.
23:04
And what's happened now is that they're talking about needing to
23:07
return to a sustainable growth, right?
23:11
And shifting their model from like what they might have been
23:19
doing more experimentally. But they said that they are.
23:23
We are shifting from a planning model primarily centered on
23:27
what's next for each independent studio to one that focuses on
23:32
our strongest franchises and determining the content road map
23:35
that best serves our players and professor as a whole.
23:40
And that is from the CEO, Jill Brath.
23:48
And what I look at, what I see in that is that when they're
23:52
focusing on their strongest franchise, that means that they
23:55
are throwing things that were in development, that were in that
24:00
incubation out the window. They're like, oh, people don't
24:05
know about like this. And it could have been the next
24:07
great game. It could have been something new
24:12
and revolutionary. But now they're going to be
24:14
focused on is what people already know.
24:17
And like, yes, Bethesda has like big franchises, Fallout, Elder
24:22
Scrolls, Doom, Doom is also Bethesda, I think, right?
24:28
Dishonored. I know the Dishonored on them.
24:30
Like they're going to be focused on on those things.
24:33
But like, if this has happened years back, we may not have
24:38
gotten Dishonored if this had happened years back.
24:43
Her stone means never been a thing in her stone.
24:46
I think revolutionize that niche of gaming because before that
24:51
nobody was doing really the online collectible trading cards
24:56
and then suddenly everybody was like popping out their Gwent
25:02
copy and and all of that. So like I think we will lose new
25:10
areas of gaming and it will go fall back on the Cods every
25:15
year, every two every year and that's going to suck.
25:18
Yeah, I, I mean, obviously there's the, you know, constant
25:21
fear that we've had since activism purchase Blizzard of
25:24
the like the codification of World of Warcraft.
25:27
I, I was just thinking, I actually don't know the numbers
25:31
on this. So I don't know if there is a
25:33
little part of me that is thinking like, yeah, my kind of
25:36
wish Blizzard was still just Blizzard, right?
25:38
Like, because I think we talk a lot about like World of Warcraft
25:42
printing money, right? But it's not, you know, money to
25:45
support Xbox and Activision and all these little independent
25:51
studios and it's money that supports Warcraft and then like
25:55
maybe a few other games. And so I again with that, I'm
25:59
not like I don't have numbers in front of me.
26:01
I don't know how it works. There is a level of this.
26:03
I'm kind of like, I wonder if the monopolizing of the game
26:10
industry is part of the harm that if you need to be like
26:14
your, your games need to be bringing in enough money
26:17
together to support a huge conglomeration, right?
26:21
With all these different people at all these different levels,
26:25
risks are harder because everything's more on the flip
26:29
side, you also can divide that much a little bit easier, right?
26:31
Like if there's more games bringing in more money, you can
26:34
take the Cods and the World Warcrafts and the things like
26:36
that. And I hypothetically did
26:38
distribute that, but it doesn't my, I will also say my
26:42
understanding of the game industry right now, again,
26:44
without being in it, without looking at versus.
26:46
So right now is the really time to be a game studio that the
26:49
cost of production is rising pretty rapidly and cost truly
26:55
consumers are not paying substantially more like we are
26:58
lead. Obviously price are increasing,
26:59
but not at a rate that keeps in line with the game development.
27:06
Again, this is just what I've been told.
27:07
I'm kind of just parroting with other people is.
27:09
That well no, no like I I have seen I have read that before,
27:13
games do cost more to make than they have have in the past.
27:18
Especially when you're trying to put out all these AAA hyper
27:21
realistic live service games that need to have a shelf life
27:28
of however long, right? You look at Grand Theft Auto 6.
27:33
That is like the big thing that all the studios are now trying
27:36
to avoid because they don't want to release at the same time
27:39
anything at the same time as Grand Theft Auto 6.
27:42
And that's a game that is going to like set you back, like,
27:48
sorry, I got to translate to the US think it's a 80 or $90.00
27:54
game US. And like, that's huge sticker
28:00
shock. Like I remember back in like
28:04
back in my day, N64 was trying to put up the price of its games
28:10
and there was like a riot. People like you can't do this,
28:12
you can't make it. You can't put the price up that
28:15
high. And that caused PlayStation that
28:18
had kept its prices low to gain an advantage, among other
28:22
things. It wasn't the sole reason.
28:25
And so I, I wonder if games are going to be so expensive to make
28:36
at the AAA level and they're going to start charging so much
28:39
and you have Sony now saying that they're not going to do any
28:42
physical media which caused that big uproar or things like that.
28:49
If now's the time to start looking at AA games or like
28:53
games that are coming from other other places like we, I wouldn't
28:59
call it an indie studio. I would say that a good AA game
29:05
would be Expedition 33. It definitely wasn't done by
29:09
like a AAA studio, but they were, I think as close as they
29:13
they could be without like being a AAA studio studio, but that
29:18
took a long time to develop. You look at Boulder's Gate
29:23
three, which is like beloved by so, so many and that took a long
29:27
time to develop. So when they talk about like
29:30
these faster development cycles and going through, I kind of
29:33
bring that back to Warcraft where we are now looking at this
29:36
eight week development cycle and like people be like, guys, come
29:40
on, just let off the gas. The shine isn't there.
29:45
Oh man, it feels like so many more bugs are coming through and
29:49
it doesn't look as polished as before.
29:52
And so I worry that with this Xbox push and this further thing
29:57
of we can't let things slip dates and such and this entire
30:03
1600 rolls now being threatened. If we are going to see a lot
30:10
more pressure on them to like this 68 weeks and shove it and
30:15
shove whatever you can in there and that that's that's scary for
30:22
World Warcraft because that's exactly what I've been like.
30:24
I don't like this right now I. I, and this is one of the things
30:29
that I think that that it was luckily, I think we were kind of
30:32
more shielded from Activision than we realize because this is
30:37
it's very big studio brain. And I think one of the reasons
30:40
that so many of us have played World of Warcraft for our entire
30:44
lives, our entire adult lives, or who came into this game.
30:47
You know, we get all of our friends raved about it or
30:48
whatever Part of that is the fact the Blizzard team
30:51
historically has been very, very player focused, right?
30:54
We have BlizzCon, we have these communities like it, it, it's
30:59
such the, the, the point was always all the like, all
31:04
Blizzard employees are Blizzard players, right?
31:07
I think without exception, maybe, I don't know, maybe I
31:10
shouldn't say that, but my understanding is it's pretty
31:12
much uniform. I'm sure there's some exception
31:13
out there, but there were there. Again, the exception, not the
31:15
rule. Right.
31:17
And so I think that's why and again, I don't I don't have
31:22
their numbers. I don't like maybe the eight
31:24
week cycle actually did boost their sub number something
31:27
crazy. And we just, you know, whine
31:28
about it as content creators, but everyone actually loves it
31:31
and we just don't know. But I feel like we as a
31:35
community, we're willing to tolerate slow development cycles
31:38
and delays. And you know, oh, we're going to
31:42
do a season 4 because we don't really have this ready.
31:45
And like, actually, sorry, we're going to push this back a little
31:47
bit, Things like that. Because it felt like this is a
31:51
community that we're a part of. This is more than just a video
31:55
game. This is a thing that we are in
31:57
in a community. And I think that's one of the
32:00
reasons why the codification of World of Warcraft feels very
32:02
scary and why these development cycles feel very scary is I
32:05
don't want World of Warcraft content on a cycle, like on a
32:08
rhythm, because it needs to be on a rhythm.
32:12
If that's a thing that genuinely the team does joyfully, they're
32:15
able to be like, actually, it's great for us to do 8 week cycles
32:17
and we can make our best content doing that sick.
32:20
But I'm more OK with like slower, better content.
32:25
And I, I, I feel like that's true of everyone I've talked to.
32:29
Again, I obviously run in, you know, my own circles.
32:32
I again, I do not have Xbox's number.
32:35
Yeah, I also worry. I worry that they're going to
32:36
look at this and they're going to look at it as a business.
32:39
And obviously World War like Blizzard was always a business,
32:42
right? Like I'm not that had in the
32:44
clouds. Like I understand that everyone
32:45
is going to be looking at these numbers, but they're going to
32:49
just be like, well, I guess we need more, right?
32:50
Like pump out more, faster, cheaper.
32:52
I mean, Rumble, I think a lot of the reasons why it failed so
32:56
hard was because right when it was having a chance, right when
33:00
it was growing, they pulled like almost every single dev off of
33:02
it. And it was already a running
33:04
joke in the community of like, oh, the like, you know, Rumble
33:07
like bugs everywhere, right? And then they tried to make a
33:10
joke about it's not a bug, and it wasn't that funny because you
33:12
can't make the bug jokes if you are a developer.
33:15
And also it's full of bugs. Like, fix the bugs, don't make a
33:18
joke at me. Yeah.
33:19
But anyway, that was really sad, right?
33:21
And I think that there were a lot of reasons why Rumble
33:23
failed. I'm not pretending it was just
33:25
that. But yeah, it was really striking
33:28
that to have a game at a point when we were like, oh, this is
33:32
actually really cool. But there's all the stuff that
33:34
needs to be done that would make it so much better.
33:36
And they were like, you know, it'll help zero employees.
33:40
And that's what I worry Xbox is kind of doing in general is pull
33:46
like trying to get everything to to to the most brass tacks it
33:49
can. And that's not why we play World
33:52
of Warcraft. I don't play World of Warcraft
33:55
through like mass content. Yeah, I think that part of it is
34:04
that when they start talking about the seasons and they talk
34:09
about like, oh, how they're doing the expansions, they're
34:12
like, oh, it's going to be 4 new zones and this many dungeons of
34:16
it's like that's formulaic. Like we're not looking for the
34:21
same thing every like 8 weeks. We're looking for a new
34:28
experience every so often. And it doesn't need to be every
34:32
eight weeks or every 10 weeks as like when you're looking at
34:37
things that came in, let's say Legion, I think Legion was a
34:42
massively successful time in World of Warcraft.
34:46
And they were having a pretty strong content release.
34:49
I believe it was 77 days or 11 weeks at that point that they
34:54
didn't cop to at the point, but people were like, oh, wow,
34:57
these, this is coming so soon. And nobody said it was like too
35:00
slow or anything, But they were adding new things and their new
35:03
experience. And oh, we're doing this thing
35:08
as the focus right now and then switching over to a new thing as
35:12
the focus. But like it would shift the way
35:15
that you would interact with the with the game.
35:17
And they do that in expansions to a certain point.
35:21
Like hero talents have been cool.
35:24
I feel like Apex talents have been less impactful when you
35:31
look at before hero talents when we're in Dragonflight, like the
35:38
flow of the world going through with dragon racing.
35:42
That was pretty unique and everything.
35:45
And of course they've had the accessibility issues that we
35:48
have discussed on this show. But on top of that, they were
35:51
trying to introduce some things that like you would engage with.
35:57
So we had these Azeroth anniversary secret finders, this
36:03
stuff the, but like some of it was I think the start of the
36:09
kind of shallow stuff we would get.
36:11
We would get like the shattered time way stuff.
36:16
That would be, oh, OK, go here and it'll be you running around
36:20
in like circles for 5 minutes and then come back in 20 minutes
36:22
and run around in circles for 5 minutes.
36:25
And they did that because they were against this borrowed
36:29
powers thing that they had been doing beforehand.
36:33
But when I look back at, let's say prior to Legion, because
36:39
bleeding was when we first had our artifact weapons or our
36:42
broad power, there were still things that you were working on
36:47
throughout the different patches.
36:50
And I guess that's where people call them the Wow chores, where
36:54
you would be unlocking the the Isle of Thunder in Mr. Pandaria
37:02
or you would be developing your covenant in Shadow Lands.
37:09
And I think that like they should, they shouldn't be afraid
37:13
to have these cool things that people can do outside of raids.
37:21
I just feel like that's what we're getting now with 12.1 and
37:27
this entire exploration of the Isle of Coyles where you can
37:33
like now change it so that you don't have to deal with the
37:36
poison and like explore further into the the island.
37:39
I think that is closer to the Isle of Thunder where people get
37:43
their own little tech tree to work on.
37:45
And maybe that will be cool. But I'm worried that it's going
37:49
to be, again, too formulaic where it's going to be a mix of,
37:55
let's say, Renown slash, the folio that we just got.
38:04
Yeah, well, it does feel like they remembered the existence of
38:10
Horrific Visions and they did that like they returned it for a
38:13
little bit and then they're like, oh wait, you guys like
38:15
this and now everything is the Oh, and also if you run through,
38:20
you're going to get these different and you get to decide
38:22
that there's building affixes that you can put on it and you
38:25
can either it's going to be harder, but you get more
38:27
rewards. And I'm like, OK, it was fun
38:29
because it was one thing, right? Like it's not like I like
38:33
horrific visions because I want every single thing to be affect
38:35
this. I, I actually, I'm a little bit
38:39
curious. Meaning I've like all but given
38:41
up on my omnium folio because I do not want to grind out all of
38:44
the stupid visions or whatever they're called.
38:46
The, the, the ritual site. Isn't that like 5?
38:51
Oh my God, there's been another week.
38:52
So I have to do 2 now. So like, yeah, like they're
38:55
making all this content I just don't want to do.
38:57
And it's like, so repetitive. Oh no.
39:00
Is it actually good? Are you enjoying it?
39:02
No. OK.
39:02
So Lex, you've done two weeks of it.
39:06
You've done double what I have. Yeah, nobody likes.
39:10
That it's all right. I'm sorry.
39:11
You're you're too hardcore for me.
39:13
I apologize. No, I'm a sweat.
39:16
I had said this. This was one of the episodes
39:18
where you were away and I said, OK, there's power behind this.
39:25
It's something that we're going to need in the next tier.
39:28
They're unlocking it over the course of the five weeks.
39:32
I expect that come 12.1, they're going to allow you the shortcut,
39:36
some of it. Or I can just rush, rush through
39:40
it on one week. And it's not like I can't
39:43
compete in keys. I'd like been switching over to
39:45
enhancement and I should go and do it.
39:47
And this week, which is week #4 there's actually a bit more
39:52
power than it has it been in previous weeks.
39:54
When it first came out, it was like such a small amount of
39:58
power. But with week 4, we're getting
40:01
runes that are giving secondary stats.
40:04
And so actually, let me pull up. I think there was a Wowhead
40:07
article about this. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out
40:09
what, first of all, because I want to know what it is.
40:12
OK, it's a this one's better. It's going to be a dungeon delve
40:15
or LFR wing and boss, which makes me think that next week
40:18
it's going to be multiple dungeon delves or LFR wing.
40:22
Oh shoot, If I'd done this today, I would have gotten it
40:24
done. Yeah, so this week seeking
40:29
knowledge, week 4 out of five, the magical preminescence.
40:35
You're right. You complete a dungeon delve or
40:37
LFR wing and boss, and it will give you one of four traits, all
40:43
which correspond with the secondary trait.
40:46
So critical power, of course, haste, mastery, versatility,
40:52
right? And then because it scales with
40:59
your gear, that is, that is going to be something that is
41:04
going to give you a good boost in your mythic.
41:06
Plus you might want to get it done before done if you're going
41:10
to be pushed on Mythic Plus or whatever it is.
41:13
But actually I kind of want to ask, maybe we should ask this at
41:16
the top of the episode. Since you've now completed AOTC,
41:19
are you sort of going to shift the shift into a more mellow
41:25
pace? Is your team going to like do
41:28
another week to like get the achievements or like what's
41:30
what's the future look like? Yeah.
41:33
So the current plan team wise is that we're going to do another
41:36
run through for AOTC because we got a couple guildies miss it.
41:39
So that'll be we're taking this week off and the next through
41:43
that. And then I we haven't like
41:45
officially set the stone, but probably the week after that
41:47
will be our achievement run and then we'll probably go on to
41:50
break mode. That's a good question for what
41:54
I specifically am going to do. I mean I've already kind of
41:57
shifted into a little bit of a slower mode.
41:59
I needed to be reminded that there was a new story to do
42:01
today. But I also don't want to go into
42:07
12.1 totally cold. So for example, I think I
42:11
probably should get through my stupid Omni and folio and I just
42:13
need to do this with virtual sides and whatever.
42:16
And you're probably right, I'm probably going to use skip and I
42:17
want to do virtual sides if I don't do it, but I should
42:19
probably be good at my game. So I but yes, I think by and
42:26
large, we're going to be switching to a more of a rest
42:29
that the officers will chat about, you know, next year.
42:33
If there's anything that needs to change.
42:34
Like I said, I'm still kind of between roles, which means we
42:36
can't really set a roster. So we need to, I need to
42:39
solidify that so we can, you know, figure out if there's gaps
42:42
or things to work through. But I'm not really an alt girl.
42:46
That was one of the reasons why when we needed another
42:49
character, I just like had to hardcore grind in like a week.
42:54
So I and I don't really have anything that I'm like desperate
42:58
to do. So I am probably going to spend
43:00
the next couple weeks prioritizing the garden or like
43:02
practicing my loot or reading books or things like that.
43:05
Like catching up on the stuff, maybe playing other games like
43:08
catching up on the things that I haven't done as much because
43:11
especially this tier has felt like World Warcraft has been a
43:13
little bit more needy. Well.
43:18
OK, well, yeah, again, this is week 4 out of five doing like a
43:27
dungeon to get the get what you what you need, remembering
43:30
dilute if you go through stuff and remember dilute.
43:36
And I think that it's all kind of leading up to 12.1.
43:43
So let's talk about the stuff that's happened on the PTR
43:48
because as I said at the top of the show, we've had a couple of
43:52
builds in between shows and we have had some adjustments.
43:56
So Hansman Shaman is getting some adjustments, which is why I
44:00
was like, OK, I'm back on, I'm back on my old business.
44:05
Same with what they've been talking about before.
44:08
They're taking some of the juice out of the cooldowns and
44:12
spreading that out over your normal rotation so you're not so
44:14
focused on these particular burst windows.
44:19
They have also been addressing a lot of the complaints or issues
44:25
that people were having. So we are seeing some redesigns
44:29
for particular things. Some adjustments like warrior
44:33
tanks being adjusted so that they aren't as squishy.
44:40
I'm sure Sean will love that. I'd wasn't aware that our
44:43
warriors were particularly having that issue, but that is
44:46
with their four set. The four set bleed was currently
44:49
underperforming. They also feel that Protection
44:52
Warriors could use a small bump in overall survivability and the
44:55
performance gap between their two specs was too wide.
44:58
So they're bringing that together.
45:00
They've made some changes, some wonderful bug fixes for a number
45:06
of classes as well as like just adjusting, adjusting those tear
45:11
sets so that they are that they are more in line with what
45:15
people want. So I would suggest if you are
45:18
interested, check out the show notes.
45:20
There are class changes all throughout this week though they
45:26
are testing the returning dungeons to the dungeon pool.
45:31
Last week it was the midnight dungeons that we had at the
45:36
beginning of of the expansion that were then locked away in
45:40
the Disney Vault. Now they're coming.
45:42
They came back out of the Disney Vault so that you we're going to
45:44
have those in Season 2. This week we're testing those
45:49
returning dungeons like the Ruby Life Pools, the Temple of Seth
45:53
Rallis, and King's Rest. This is going to be a really
45:57
good opportunity to see the shifts in those fundamental
46:04
things that they were changing. They said said that they liked
46:08
where things were in season ones in terms of overall dungeon
46:13
viability and difficulty. The overall changes that they're
46:19
saying, it seemed really great. And then they have very
46:22
particular changes for for things as well.
46:26
So Dragonflight, it was a pretty notoriously full on expansion
46:32
for what was being thrown at you.
46:34
There's just a lot of stuff you needed.
46:37
I think it was the most dependent on weak orders.
46:39
We've been in the most barrage with bulk slop that we've ever
46:45
been in. So they're adjusting things.
46:48
The Ruby Life pools, they have said the spawning, pacing,
46:52
clarity and tuning are all being adjusted.
46:56
They have It also said that they are slowing down the ability
46:59
pacing on all boss encounters, reducing trash density, and then
47:06
some particular changes therein. Temple Seth Rallis was heavily
47:12
adjusted to address pain points and concerns over its previous
47:16
iteration, with some reworked stuff for the gauntlet sequence
47:22
prior to the final boss that removes a player to be in time
47:27
out while energizing an orb. Redesigning packs and trash
47:32
packs, spawning composition throughout the dungeon to just
47:36
make it more readable, more consistent, and to allow more
47:40
counter play. And these are these are things
47:42
that are in all of them for King's Rest again, receiving
47:47
significant adjustments to the creature abilities, boss and
47:51
counterpacing again and outliners so that the
47:57
composition of those those fights are changed, the fights
48:02
are more readable. So I think that for you who has
48:10
stepped your toe into Mythic Plus a couple times and also
48:13
pulled it out a couple times, I think this is going to be good.
48:17
And for me who has like tried to push more consistently and now
48:23
going back into a pugging situation where I'm going to be
48:25
like just trying to pug to see how far I can get and I won't
48:29
have those comps, it being readable is going to be so much
48:34
better. So in general, Lex, are you
48:37
excited for Season 2? Are you going to be still on
48:43
your priest in Season 2? So great question.
48:45
I think that, and that will probably change whether or not
48:48
I, I do a lot of mythic classes, whether I'm DPS or, or healer,
48:53
it is just objectively significantly harder to hug as
48:56
Adps, right? You have to be a lot better, you
48:58
have to have a lot more experience and there's just so
49:01
much more competition just on the basis that I am lazy and
49:06
more realistically the basis that I have limited time.
49:10
And so if I'm logging on, the idea of spending most of that
49:12
time button waiting to a group. So if I am healer, I am probably
49:18
more likely to do a little bit more mythic plus.
49:20
Either way, it's probably going to be primarily with friends.
49:23
But I, I mean, I to be honest, I'm having fun with mythic plus
49:27
this season now that I'm on healer and I and which is my big
49:31
debate, like mental debate right now is I think that I prefer
49:34
leveling and things like Grey delves, things like that as a
49:39
Demon Hunter. But I prefer and game content as
49:43
a priest. And so probably it makes the
49:45
most sense to do this thing that I'm enjoying on the the most of
49:48
the bulk of the content that I do.
49:51
So probably I will go priest, but we shall see.
49:56
But yeah, I I so I also did not do I've done Ruby life pools.
50:01
I don't know that I've done much King.
50:03
I don't think I did any. I don't think I played during
50:05
Kings RF. That was yeah, BFA, Yeah, a long
50:08
time back. Oh, I actually did do.
50:10
So. Maybe I do because I started
50:12
playing and actually BFA was when I started rating and when I
50:15
started rating especially, I was like, I mean, I wasn't like
50:17
sweat, but I was trying much harder.
50:19
I was trying to like prove myself to a new group.
50:21
So I was doing a lot more like gearing and getting set up.
50:24
Got to get back into that. I got to prove.
50:27
So actually maybe I do know all these, but I think I think it's
50:31
kind of good that they are playing around with them a lot,
50:32
partially just people who don't know them as well to have it be
50:35
less scary of like, oh, you, everyone else remembers these
50:38
and you don't. I do think it's funny, one of
50:41
the things that I'm noticing a couple times at least, they like
50:44
think being boss mechanics interruptible, which is
50:47
interesting, which is good. It's not a change I would have
50:49
expected them to make. I don't think it's so much that
50:52
they're, they're like a lot of bosses having interruptible
50:55
stuff, which is still, I think a good, a good thing to have
51:00
interruptible stuff. But the fact that the the boss
51:03
isn't doing 3-4 things at once, the fact that like you have more
51:07
time to react to them because they're not expecting you to
51:11
have weak orders or stuff that that tells you, that tells you
51:15
what to do to allow that reaction time.
51:18
I think it just means that it is going to be something that even
51:23
if you're not interrupting it, you can counter play against it
51:27
by saying like, oh, OK, I'm not the I can't just zip zoom like
51:31
my Demon Hunter. I'm on my priest.
51:33
I have the time to drop a feather and and run out or you
51:36
just hard run out to drop the ice off to the side or whatever
51:40
the mechanic might call you to do is what they're allowing with
51:43
the counter plan. I love that.
51:46
Yeah, yeah, it's so. I mean, I don't, I'm not good at
51:48
getting in the weeds of things like this, but just glancing at
51:51
it, I think it looks good question mark.
51:53
I mean, I think it also obviously all of this got to see
51:56
it in play if it actually changed for sure.
52:00
Actually, I was going to say, if you are, if you're interested in
52:06
getting a look at some of these dungeons, King's Rest is BFA and
52:12
is currently BFA time walking. So if you want a little quick
52:16
reminder of like, what was this about?
52:18
Temp of Seth Rallis is also BFA So two of these dungeons are
52:23
currently something you could do time walking just to give
52:26
yourself a reminder of what they were they were like and then it
52:32
won't be as big a shock and you're still working to work
52:34
like that cool dragon mount little tip the I don't want to
52:43
call an exploit but the way that time the time walking buff
52:48
worked previously is still active.
52:50
So if you have the master of the time waste buff that you get for
52:55
doing four time walking in a week and each time you get a
53:00
time walking, you get this increase to experience.
53:03
And I believe it's just experience, but correct me if
53:08
I'm wrong in the comments. When it take, when you get the
53:14
final stack, it gives you a 30% bonus and then if you get that
53:21
fully stacked 1 four weeks in a row, you will get the mount.
53:27
But if you log off after you've got that buff and log back in
53:32
the next week and do one time walking, it just refreshes the
53:35
buff and counts so you don't have to do another four in that
53:38
week. So find a character that you
53:42
want to just park. This again is Week 2.
53:44
So you still have multiple weeks to do this.
53:48
Any character that you don't need to log in more than three
53:52
hours, the buff lasts 3 hours, OK, more than three hours before
53:57
the next week and then just refresh that buff for the next
54:01
couple of weeks and you won't have to do as much to get to get
54:03
this achievement. Master of the time wise.
54:07
Very smart. You people are so good at
54:10
finding little things, finding little ways to get around all
54:12
the little rules. That that's nerfed.
54:15
It used to be that you would just refresh it in the same week
54:17
and it would count and then you would get in the first week.
54:19
But they figure it out to stop that.
54:21
Just not that. I'll stop this, yeah.
54:23
Alas. But yeah, I I do think that's
54:26
smart to be doing time walking that does relate to what's
54:30
coming. I mean, obviously they're
54:31
usually pretty good. I mean, you can jump on the PTR
54:34
if you really want to test it, but for those of us with a
54:36
little less time, maybe this will work.
54:40
It is very interesting. I think we do.
54:44
They do seem to leaning pretty heavily into the trolls, who I
54:46
would have said before BFA was one of the more like side right?
54:50
Like the kind of like the dwarves where like they very
54:53
clearly exist. They're usually visible in every
54:56
expansion, but they're never really guiding the expansion.
55:01
And now it seems like that's something that they're they're
55:03
pushing a little bit more to the point where now I feel like
55:06
people whine about the fact that all they do is troll stuff.
55:09
So what? Good for.
55:10
Who? Who's whining about all the
55:11
troll stuff? The troll stuff is great.
55:13
Oh yeah, And I so I actually did have a lot of fun with the story
55:16
today. I won't get into spoilers, but I
55:17
think it was very well done. And I I think the troll lore is
55:24
a very interesting thing to untangled because I think it is
55:28
some of the lore that they were most comfortable letting the
55:33
characters be more morally Gray than generally they do.
55:40
Which I think, you know, I could get into long conversations
55:43
about Hollow. There's problematic elements to
55:45
that. But I think it does mean that
55:47
they have interesting lore that you can really dig into.
55:51
Like, Oh yeah, this group is kind of universally disliked and
55:55
for pretty valid reasons. Like they've actually done a lot
55:58
of really bad stuff. And they can't pull the like,
56:00
oh, we were under the influence of demon blood or like we were
56:04
enslaved by this or that. Like, no, you guys were actually
56:08
just kind of a little power hungry and a little.
56:12
Honestly, if I can drag drag you out some time, we'll do like a
56:18
bonus episode where we can. We can definitely talk about it.
56:21
We don't want to dive in too deep into it, like like said,
56:24
because we don't want to give spoilers just came out, but we
56:28
do want to talk about it. So maybe we can we can go into
56:32
that a little bit more. But yes, I do think that in
56:37
general, it's something that it leads the story to where we're
56:42
going in 12 point 112.1 is very much troll focused.
56:46
So that's why they have these dungeons that are like very,
56:50
very much troll focused coming and coming back as well as the
56:53
new dungeon. I'm glad that we're getting this
56:57
this new dungeon. I'm sad that it's unlikely we
57:02
will see a mega dungeon anytime soon.
57:04
I do love myself some mega dungeons, but I also think that
57:08
some of that might be in the mega delve.
57:13
The What do they call it again? Labyrinth.
57:16
The. Layer right?
57:19
No the layers. No, I'm living mixing up with
57:21
the guy at the end again. Yeah, OK, sorry, I don't think
57:25
we've actually covered this on the show, but layers are a new
57:30
thing where instead of world bosses being out in the world
57:32
and causing all the lag, they are now putting them into a
57:37
layer that will have multiple levels that you queue up for.
57:42
And so it'll be instance content.
57:45
You'll go to the meeting, so and you'll pick whatever level of
57:48
difficulty you want to do and then you'll be thrown into
57:52
almost like a groove layer of of a boss fight.
57:58
And I think that's cool. So that's what layers are.
58:00
I believe labyrinths are the mega delves and I'm hoping that
58:07
those do include significant amount of story.
58:14
I would like to to see those like really expand upon some
58:20
part of lore that doesn't need to be part of the direct stuff
58:23
happening with Valatath and the void and all of that.
58:28
Or maybe it's a lead into what becomes in the future.
58:33
But all of that is aside to what's coming in 12.1, the big,
58:40
the big, the big thing, which is the trolls.
58:43
I I like that they're that they're doing this.
58:47
This to me feels very reminiscent of Isle of Thunder.
58:49
I think I talked about that early in the episode where it's
58:53
going to give us like a kind of a refresh when on everything's
58:56
going to be all void stuff. Now we're dealing with poison
58:58
stuff and nature green where but I do love myself some lower.
59:04
I think that they're they are cool and this is this deals with
59:10
some very lore fundamentals of trolls and elves.
59:20
I do, I do really want to dig into some of the places that
59:25
they this is taking us and some of the things that they kind of
59:29
just ignored in this story story element.
59:33
So we are going to definitely do a bonus episode and you guys
59:37
will see that on the FAZ Patreon page.
59:42
Bit.sorrynotbit.ly0mygoodnesspatreon.com/faz or Z with if you're American ZI
59:54
think yeah. No type up VED.
59:57
We'll see how it goes. Patreon.com/faz and yeah, so
1:00:09
we'll we'll come back to that. We'll come back to that.
1:00:10
I don't want to, I don't want to go too deep even though I have
1:00:13
things to say. But I think that's going to be
1:00:17
it for us today, unless there's anything else you want to talk
1:00:20
about Legs, OK. Yeah, go have fun.
1:00:23
Just say I, I do think it's, I mean, also, I don't remember
1:00:27
their story. It's not connected to the, to
1:00:30
the patch. I was also a little bit
1:00:31
surprised when everyone was like, oh, did you do the story?
1:00:33
And I was like, I didn't download anything.
1:00:36
Imagine if there was like a podcast where they told you
1:00:38
things like the story is going to be delayed a couple weeks or
1:00:40
something. That would be really sick.
1:00:42
Imagine if I was on one of those I.
1:00:45
Feel like I want to go back and like insert the point where we
1:00:49
were saying and this hasn't come out yet but will be out in a
1:00:51
couple of weeks can. You imagine if somebody thought
1:00:53
to say that on a podcast and I was like on that podcast when it
1:00:57
was said, that would be absurd. Anyway, I forgot so but it's,
1:01:01
you know, it's fun. It's it's not too long,
1:01:04
especially if you remember your stuff in dungeon.
1:01:07
So go enjoy World of Warcraft and appreciate the devs and what
1:01:11
they bring to us and say thank you and then go yell at CEOs but
1:01:15
not devs on Twitter. Well, until next time, may all
1:01:20
your hits be crits.