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0606FullPodcast · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All right, we have
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Rosalind Matthison in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio today. She's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Executive everit for International Government for Bloomberg News based in London,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: but we have are here in the States this week.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: We found on the last hour meth that she is Australian.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: From some little news. What's the name of the town again, Ros,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: it's a code Goombungee Bungee Goombungee. It's an indigenous name. Wow,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: go figure. I mean, I I don't know. One day
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: me and Roz traveled to a remote town in Austria
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: to interview the former head of the FBI, James Komy.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Together really was that in Austria? Yeah, that was awesome.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: That was such a cool I mean, you know, he
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: had just written a book and obviously it was like
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: comy versus Trump. But he's amazingly fascinating and also really tall, dude,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: extremely tall. Yeah, explained to us, what's happening in London today,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: folks forting us, we need to pay attention to a
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: vote that's going on in Parliament. What's going on over there? Well,
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: that's right. So it seems like enough of his own
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: lawmakers have had enough of him, and so they've submitted
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: letters calling for a leadership vote on his him leading
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the Tory Party, which of course means his leadership of
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: the country as a whole. So that vote will happen
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: in a couple of hours today, it goes. It takes
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: about two hours for it to happen. They fall into
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: a room one by one and cast their vote, yeah,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: your nay, and then there's an outcome. It looks like
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: at this point he will probably win that vote because
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: they need hundred eighty Tory lawmakers to go against him.
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: But the question is, what is the damage that's being
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: done simply by having this vote happen in the first place,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: And what is the margin by which he would presumably
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: win this vote. It could be quite tight and tighter
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: than he would like. Can that suggests of course that
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: other knives will be out for him even despite the
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: outcome today potentially, but the base cases that he wins,
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: right because, um, his own party is bringing this vote essentially,
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: and it's a system that I think a lot of
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Americans are unfamiliar with. They have this committee. It all
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: seems so old and weird. Um, But what if they lose.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: They're bringing on an election that they're sure then later
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: to lose. Well, that is the risk also from this
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: is he might win, and then he might decide to
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: call an election to try and get a fresh mandate
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: from the public or to get rid of some of
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: these Tory rebels. But why how could he? I mean,
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: they're experiencing inflation just like we are, and they're doing
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: very little about it, just like we are. I mean,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: people are a lot of people are being driven into
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: poverty by these high energy praises right well, exactly in
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: all the polling shows that going to an election anytime
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: soon would be very self defeating for the Tories because
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: of all the things that you mentioned, particularly the state
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: of the economy, inflation, the idea has not delivered on
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: his promises to bring development to areas in northern England
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: UM and so on. He came in, of course in
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: a landslide when UM in intercalentinam with a very large
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: majority for a British prime minister, and that's all seemingly
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: evaporated at this point. But he may decide just to
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: go that because he is a very charismatic politician. He's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a very charismatic campaign and maybe he thinks somehow, if
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you can call an election and get out there, he
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: can somehow rally the faithful and get enough voters back
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: for the Tories. But it's a very big ask given
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: what we're seeing at the moment in the polling. All right,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: let's switch gears rather since we have you in studio,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: want to cover broad range here Ukraine, but we're not
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: going into our fourth month. I guess over there in Ukraine,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: is there a consensus amongst the folks that really file
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: this closely how this might play out here or is
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: this just going to be a long, long slog. Well,
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: it's certainly hitting that kind of grinding more of attrition,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: which we would imagine could go on for an extended period.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: You're seeing Russian troops make incremental gains and then get
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: pushed back again. And then further gains, but suddenly holding
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: some of the ground that they've taken in the east
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: of Ukraine at this point controlling about of Ukrainian territory
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: either way, and very much entrenching themselves there. So what
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: you'll see is potentially months and months and months of
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: this very sort of like small bore fighting that's going
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: on on the ground. And then the question is what
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: does the rest of the world do with that, um,
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: even if they ship in more and more weapons, particularly artillery,
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: does that change the course of the war or are
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: we stuck with this for the foreseeable future. And at
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: some point, as you see France and Germany and other
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: sort of dipping their toe into the water, does the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Ukrainian president need to negotiate with with Russian the Russian
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Russian president and does that in turn involve him agreeing
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: to see territory. What do we know about the casualties
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: that the Ukrainians are are facing or you know, even
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: if it just versus the Russians, I mean, do we
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: know about numbers? Do we know, um, if they're if
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: they're losing by a light Well, the numbers are very
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: hard to get a clear view of because of course
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: they're coming from either side with their own interpretation on it,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: but what's clear is that both sides are suffering extensive
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: casualties in terms of manpower. At this point, Russia has
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: lost a lot of equipment as well, which has been
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: very difficult for it in terms of its campaign on
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: the ground. But just as Russia has lost all the trips,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: so has Ukraine. And it's got conscriptions, so it's got
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: fresh people coming in. But that will also become a
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: problem for Ukraine the more this goes on. And because
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: it's more experienced fighters, of course, we're the ones who
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: are in there first. So what you do is you
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: bring in less experienced people who are conscripted um and
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: then over time that becomes very difficult for you crime
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: as well. Difficult, difficult situation. Rosalind Math is an executive
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: editor for International Government Bloomberg News based in London, but
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: here in the States. This week, I getting the least
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: briefly here in New York and head down to Washington,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: d C. Rights Power. That's where the power brokers are met,
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and that's where ros Mouth needs to be. I mean,
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: you know, there's just us here in New York and
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: some others. So anyway, appreciate that. Let's get right to
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: our next guest, because we got a lot to talk about.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Prea Misra, Managing director and global head of Rates Strategy
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: A TV Securities Cupria. You know, I'm looking at my
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. My tenure treasury is kind of my first
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: place to go and talking rates. I got a little
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: headline there. It's a three spot on. That's notable, I guess,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: but it just seems like we're in this trading range
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: here for interest rates, and that despite the fact that
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: my Federal Reserve has said that it's raising rates pretty
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: aggressively here, So well, what do you make of that? Sure?
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: So thanks for having yes. I think rates are likely
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: to be in a range for the near term because,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: as you said, the Fed is hiking. I think they
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: want to see clear and convincing signs in Chapel's words
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: of decline, and they were not seeing it yet of inflation.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: But I think what's happened in the rates market is
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: we're also starting to price in growth fears, which is
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: why I think we stay in a to seventy five
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: three and a quarter ten year range because when you
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: start getting to the upper end of the range, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: we're right in the middle of the range now. But
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: if we sell off, and I do think rates are
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: likely with QT to get to that upper end of
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: the range, then the market is going to get concerned
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: about growth fears. And at what point I interest rates
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: high enough that you start to impact intersensitive sectors housing,
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: consumer durables, you know, the savings that we're all banking
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: on the consumer. Those sailings are getting depleted every day,
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: and so I think that the growth fears prevent rates
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: from rising too much further out because we've priced in
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: a lot. A lot in terms of FED hikes have
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: already been priced in, so I do there's a ceiling
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: there in terms of growth fears that prevents rates from
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: rising a lot. And on the downside, which is why
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: I think we stopped around that. To this, inflation is
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: just too high, and so I don't think the FED
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: is ready to blink or even um sort of suggests
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: that it pauses. Likely I do think they won't be
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: able to hike as much as is priced in. So
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: we like the front end, but the long end, with
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: inflation high QT happening, I think that long end has
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: some more room to rise. How much of this is
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, if the FED is going to keep
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: hiking rates, and you know, the econ one oh one
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: lesson is you don't want to hold this paper because
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you're going to be able to get something that yields
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: more later. Um. But that's program perspective of somebody who
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: wants UH to be clipping coupons? Right? Are they drawn
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: in at three three and a quarter to a point
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: where it kind of puts a cap on on the
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: yields that can how high they can rise? Yeah, so
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: you're bringing up the supply demand. I think supply demand
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: is still negative for treasuries, meaning you know, three and
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: a quarter with inflation at six eight, depending on which
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: measure you're looking at. Yes, coupons are higher today than
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: they were a year ago, but I think it's I'm
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: hard pressed to think that it's attractive. We're still seeing
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: outflows from fixed income funds. We've had one week of inflow,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: so I still don't think there's demand coming from you know,
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: how much interest rates have risen. Where the demand is
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: coming from people trying to hedge for recession risks or
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: growth slow down, And so if you have a risk
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: asset in your portfolio, having some treasuries that will provide
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that hedging property, which I have to say, treasuries were
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: not a great hedge in the first quarter, but that
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: hedge has come back. I think now we've growth slows down. Yeah,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: those hikes are going to get priced, and so it's
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: more from a macro economy slowdown risk asset performance. That's
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: where the demand for treasuries is coming from, not just
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: from a raging stand I mean a key question is, um,
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: how quickly you see inflation coming back down to you know,
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: the two percent what we've decided I guess as an
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: acceptable level. Does that come down to to you know,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: two or three percent at the end of I struggled
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: to say that, or we we don't even have it
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: at three. We have it a little bit above three
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: at the end of next year. And so that's the
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: tricky part. I mean, as much as the FED is
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: committed I think to price stability, the administration's committed to it,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: there are aspects of inflation that are out of their control, food, energy,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: even parts of shelter. We have a demographic shift in
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: housing and there just hasn't been enough creation of that
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: housing in the last few years. So I think, um,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: you know, and I think this is a question, a
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: tough question the FED will have to answer by your
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: end is do they are they okay with inflation decelerating?
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: They clearly want a deceleration, but if it decelerates to
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: three and a half, it's still significantly lower than here
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: is at okay? Can they be a little more patient
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: trying to get to that two percent target over four
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: years rather than one year? So you know, in our
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: forecast right now, even so, at the end of this
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: year were four and a half on PC, at the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: end of next year a little over three. But we
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: think the FED might be comfortable as long as it's
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: heading in the right direction, as long as we age inflation,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: which is also an important part of this, is not accelerating.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, their tolerance band will be tested
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: by the market, but slowing growth will allow them to say,
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: maybe we just have to tolerate high inflation for a while.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: But it's something I think we haven't really heard from
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: the FED yet, and that that's still an open question.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: All right, pre Miser, thank you so much for joining us.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: As always, we love getting your thoughts on kind of
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: where rates may be heading and what this feder reserved
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: maybe thinking about as we passed through the data misras
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: a Managing director and global head of rate strategy at
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: TD Securities. Here, all right, let's talk side our security
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: will shift gears there. We're all putting more and more
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: as we you know, in the last two years, work
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: from homes, learn from home, putting more and more data
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: in the cloud, doing more and more with technology, and
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: of course that raises the concerns about data security, cybersecurity
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: broadly define. Our next guest is absolutely on the front
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: lines of that. Guilt Schwed is the CEO of Checkpoints
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: Software Technologies. You can find that on nastack c h
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: KP is a tick of your you put into your
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal. Guil, thanks so much for joining us here. Again,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: it just seems like your business cybersecurity is more important
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: than it's ever been as we put more and more
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: or we engage more and more with technology and put
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: more and more data in the cloud. Give us just
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: your thirty thousand foot view with where this tech stack
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: is in terms of cybersecurity. Hi, Paul, I met the
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: first year. Absolutely right, we are more vulnerable than ever
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: to cyber attack, both because we're dependent on the Internet
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: and the network so much, and also because the attacks
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: are becoming more more sophisticated. The software that we use
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: on every device, on our laptop, on our you know,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: home TV or vacuum cleaner, each one of them has software. Unfortunately,
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: all that software has vulnerabilities, and the hackers do take
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: advantage of that. And and we are I think almost
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: all time high in terms of number of attacks. So
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: what's the answer. I mean, um, do you just have
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to keep building a better mouse trap over and over
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: and over again? First we do, I mean our the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: systems we build in our industry are all are many
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: of them are real time updated and they try to
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: adjust themselves all the time. We're building systems that try
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: to stop attacks, even attacks that we don't know about.
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: That using AI looks at the different patterns of usage
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: and when they see something that's suspiciously just stop it.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And the yes, we do have run as fast as
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: we can to top the attackers. Give us a sense guil.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: I think what gets some people who don't live this
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: every day but get some really concerns when they hear
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: about state sponsored cyber attacks. State sponsored ransomware, that type
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: of thing. It gives a sense of how that has
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: evolved and kind of what you think at all do
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: going forward. So first, many large, many advanced economies and
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: countries developed state sponsor technologies to either spy on the
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: enemy or even attack at time of four. The challenge
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: is not that we're trying just to fight our government
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: were not. The challenges that with technologies falls into the
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: hands of the wrong guys. And that's something. For example,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: last year there was a devastating attack on the city
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: of Baltimore. The attack was by some foreign countries, but
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: not foreign countries, foreign groups from foreign countries, but the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: technology they used was actually technology were developed by the
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: n say that I think about a few miles from
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: the same place the US and show the security agency.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So the challenge that we have is that this is
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: software technology, and sooner or later, almost any attack technology
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: falls into the hands of the wrong guys. Bear us
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: by publishing. Don't want to look like having some practical
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: difficulties there with with he was about to share way
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: too much truth with us, I think, and somebody hacked
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: his phone line. Yeah exactly, But I know this company
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: is based in Israel, as well. But I mean, I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: just think this. I mean, we hear from everybody, um
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and it's just when it hits the news every once
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: in a while that comes to people's attention. But we
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: hear companies talk about it all the time, the amount
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: they're investing in cybersecurity, because every it seems like most,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: if not every company has a lot of data dependency.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: I gotta be honest with you. Listening to Gil just now,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: I was by the realization that technology is going to
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: be the death of us all simply, we're we are
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: basically engineering the end of our own world. Here. Should
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: make a movie about that. At some point, AI is
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: just gonna take over and you're not gonna worry about
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: your social secourney. Ne're getting hacked. Kil Let me just
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: ask you. I think we got you back on the line.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: Here is technology going to be the end of us all? Are? We?
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Are we eventually going to face our globe, our own
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: global demise at the hands of like AI and technology.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: I'm actually quite optimistic. I think technology has a bigger
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and bigger role in our lives. But if we look
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: at our personal safety and so on, it's much better
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: now than it used to be. A twenty or fifty
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: years ago, though the risks that we have to face
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: are different. Gil What are gen V cyber text and
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: why to they matter? Gen vere do what we call
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Gen five cyber attack are the most sophisticated attacks we
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: see today. They are what we call ulti vectors. So
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the attacks get from one place like an up you
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: download into the phone, which turns into something that gets
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: into your computer, but at the end gets the malware
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: into the data center of on the cloud or at
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: your company. They are usually very hard to spot. They
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: are usually every time they come they look a little
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: bit differently, so you can just say this looks like
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: an attack and they can create a lot of damage.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Sometimes they would hide and still the data for a
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: long period of time. Sometimes they would just create an
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: attack that all on the same minute take down the
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: entire hospital, or at the same minute take down the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: entire nation. We just celebrate, not celebrated. We just mentioned
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: last week the fifth anniversary of the big attack on Ukraine,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: not the war in Ukraine now, but five years ago
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: there was a huge attack. They took down the entire country.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: So these are pretty difficult attacks to deal with. When
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I think that's what we need to deal with today.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Al Right, Gil, thanks so much for going joining us.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: Gil shwed there I think the longest serving CEO any
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: NASDAC company, which is pretty cool talking about um uh,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: cybersecurity that in a sense, his company, Checkpoint, kind of invented,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: you know. They started this whole firewall thing, and that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: just seems like a great business to be in. I mean,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: I just can't imagine a company over until it's all over.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine a company saying we're gonna spend less
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: this year on cybersecurity than we did last year. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: just think every budget that comes in, you know, to
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: the CFO, is a higher budget for spending on and
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: that's good for the Checkpoints of the world and the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: other folks that cater to that. You know. One of
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the things that's definitely changed here during this pandemic kind
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: of a I'm not sure if that's an anticipated fallout,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: but workers have a lot more leverage. It seems people
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: are saying, I'm not coming back to the office, or
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: you know, it's such a type market, I'm gonna go
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: leave my current job for a better paying job. It's
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: just really changed the whole dynamic of the workforce and
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: how and where you work. Nia set Home joins us.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: She's a managing partner at set Home Law Group. Are
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: these things let's start just with the work from home
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: hybrid how do you do it kind of thing? I
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: guess companies large and small still trying to figure it out.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: But it seems like the hybrid thing is kind of
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: the preferred model that's emerging. Is that what you're seeing.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: I'm hearing a variety of opinions on this from the employees.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: I'm certainly hearing that hybrid is here to stay and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: that's what they're anticipating and what they're hoping for. But
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of business owners are struggling with the hybrid
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: model for many reasons. You know, the economics of it,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: and of course, you know, building culture and managing teams
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: is more difficult when people are in disjointed um parts
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: of the country. But you know, um, RONNIEA, the thing
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: is um A lot of employees want to have the
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: hired option or even completely work from home, and a
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: lot of their old white male bosses say, no, you
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: have to be in the office. Um. If I want
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to work from home and I am producing just as
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: much or even better than I would be in the office,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: but I get fired for not coming in. Do I
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: have a case? I don't believe. So. As long as
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: the rule is applied the same for all employees, then
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I don't think you would have a case. But that's
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: the debate right now. I work with a lot of
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: small business owners not you know the fortune or even
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Fortune two thousand, if there is such a thing, and
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: they're not yet certain as it's a productivity and whether
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: it's better for employees to work from home or not.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: All right? How about another issue. Employed at a tech
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: firm in Silk and Valley pandemic hits, I go to
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: Jackson Hole and relocate and they say, fine, you can
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: do your job there, but we're going to pay at
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Jackson Hole level wages, not Silicon Valley level wages. Is
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: that okay? I think that is probably okay from a
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: legal perspective, but it is a very tough, tough till
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: to swallow. You're doing the same work, You're the same person,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: you just move to geography. I don't think that's the
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: best conversation to have with employees. Is that conversation happening though?
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Because I can see, if I'm an employer, I would
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: definitely want to have that conversation. It is. It is
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: definitely happening, and a lot of the reason for that
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: is because of the additional financial and administrative burdens that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: come with allowing your workforce to work in states where
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: you may not be you know, already registered. If you're
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: already registered to do business there, it doesn't make too
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: much difference. But if you have to now pay taxes
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there and do a whole host of other things like
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: for chesse, workers compensation insurance in these other states, then
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: that conversation is taking place with a lot of stride.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Now yet, Yeah, that's interesting. You know, my um my
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: wife is looking to hire for a position and her
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: company is willing to allow someone to work from home,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: but she says she can only hire from certain states.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: And I didn't really understand why, but I guess the
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: point is for companies, this is a difficult landscape to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: navigate because, um, you've got to be able to pay
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: workers comp in different states, or pay taxes in different
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: states if you want to have employees who I guess
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: have an I P address there. Right, Yes, that is true,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: and some of the laws are extremely cryptic as to
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: what does even working from home means. So if you're
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: working in another state and the company registers to do
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: business there, are you really working from home? Are you
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: working in the cafe? And then if you get injured,
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: who's paying for that? So it can get quite complicated.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: So how do you think this is complaing for you?
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: The smaller businesses that you deal with, Ronnie, I would
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: think they would have less flexibility, less resources. So what
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: are you advising them or what are you seeing them do? Well?
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to get into exactly what I advise
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: them to do. However, I do have a discussion with
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: them about the costs associated with expanding into states where
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: they're not already uh, you know, having employees. So a
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: lot of the clients that I work with that are
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: in fashion and tech, so they marry both fashion and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: tex They don't really have any brick and mortar, but
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: they have limited the states in which will allow people
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: to work from home because of these additional burdens. It's
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: a whole new world out there. It's a brave new
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: worlds new world I know, and people are doing that
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: remote work, Runnie said home, thank you so much for
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: joining us. Ronnie, a Sad Home managing partner set Home
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Law Group. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: on Twitter at Matt Miller three and on False Sweeney
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio