Latest / Steve Azar's Resonance: A Podcast for Leaders, Unpacking the Power of Song, Silence and Strategy / Resonance Season 3: Who Can Tell You You're Wrong?

Transcript

Resonance Season 3: Who Can Tell You You're Wrong? · Steve Azar's Resonance: A Podcast for Leaders, Unpacking the Power of Song, Silence and Strategy

0:00
SPEAKER_01: This is Resonance, the podcast with leaders that unpacks the power of song, Silence, and Styes.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: We believe the great leadership begins with deep listening, not just to others, but to the still small voice within.
0:21
SPEAKER_03: It's not just about being a successful leader, it's about being soulfully aligned as well.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: In a world moving fast, resonance invites you to pause and reconnect with purpose, people, and possibilities.
0:33
SPEAKER_02: We'll dive into some cool stories, celebrate with friends, and dig deep into the music too.
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Cause song has a way of saying what words cannot alone.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: So whether you're leading a business, a team, or just trying to lead your own life with more meaning, this is Resonance.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Resonance Resonance.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: And of course, Steve Azar, the legendary Steve Azar.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Music and culture ambassador of the state of Mississippi, Grammy nominated singer and songwriter, philanthropist, and former great golfer.
1:24
SPEAKER_02: Back in the NA, he was pretty good.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: Boy, the boy, the truth hurts.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: It really does.
1:31
SPEAKER_02: Featured artist on a Grammy nominated record.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: All right.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Well, today we got a topic we're gonna we're gonna jump right into.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: And uh this might be a short episode because I'm not sure uh where we're gonna go with this one.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: So who can tell you you're wrong?
1:52
SPEAKER_00: And uh I think you know, from a from a leadership perspective, uh as leaders get successful, achieve things, uh become more and more uh you know renowned in their leadership ability ability, a lot of times I think they have a tendency to sort of put themselves up in that ivory tower and uh never really um allow people to tell them uh they're wrong or or they're off course or uh something.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: And then there's all kinds of leadership examples that we can look at both throughout history uh and you know uh in the business world about leaders that uh you know have put themselves in that position and it's led to catastrophic uh results because they haven't been able to listen to anybody.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: And so today we want to really talk about what's that look like.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: And and uh uh I know for me in in in my life it's pretty easy.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: I you know, there's there's one particular person that can tell me I'm wrong pretty much anytime she wants.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's my wife Ann, you know, and thankfully she doesn't have to tell me that a lot, but uh, you know, I work at that every day.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: And uh so you know I'll kick it over to you, Randy.
3:06
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, who can tell you you're wrong?
3:09
SPEAKER_03: Well, I you know, certainly um say will challenge me uh on the regular basis.
3:15
SPEAKER_03: And one of the things about her, I I have no problem with her challenging me on stuff all the time.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: That's that's great.
3:20
SPEAKER_03: What I don't like is, and it's not just with her, but with anybody, is when it becomes about being right more than it is about being helpful.
3:32
SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
3:33
SPEAKER_03: So uh it's like, well, no, no, I know, but I was right here.
3:36
SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah, you that okay.
3:39
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
3:40
SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll yield that every time.
3:42
SPEAKER_03: But uh I and I think the other piece that the that this topic gets to is the way your brain works and confirmation bias shows up big time.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: So super quick confirmation bias just means that if I don't think it agrees with me, I'm going to think it's wrong.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: And so what I do is I just get information that agrees with me.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: And and because of social media and because of the algorithms that we've all experienced, uh, I mean, I how many times have you looked, clicked on an ad on on something, or looked on Amazon for something, or even just said it, and then the next day showing up in your feed as, oh, here's 70 things that you might want to look at uh about that.
4:29
SPEAKER_03: And so the algorithms are creating this this echo chamber world where if you don't want to hear an alternative opinion, you can pretty much live your life without hearing an alternative opinion.
4:40
SPEAKER_03: And so we just get this confirmation bias of, oh, I must be right because everything I'm looking at is telling me I'm right, even though I'm just not looking at anything that tells me I'm wrong.
4:51
SPEAKER_04: Right.
4:51
SPEAKER_03: And so that I think is gonna be one of the big branches we're gonna we're gonna follow down on this uh track.
4:58
SPEAKER_03: Azar, you're an artist.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: And you should be able to just people, you this is my art.
5:04
SPEAKER_03: How can they tell you your art is wrong?
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna quote a couple things, first of all.
5:07
SPEAKER_02: One, the Fonds, I'm gonna go way back happy days when he said I was wrong, wrong.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: He couldn't say what wrong.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's right.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: The Fonds was never wrong.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Second of all, I remember that episode.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: He couldn't say the word love or it couldn't say the word wrong.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: And then I do, I do, and I don't know if we're what what church you guys got married in, but I'm pretty certain in the vowels, you know, uh, you know, in sickness and in health, every time he's wrong, I heard that.
5:36
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, so you know, it went by and I was going like, well, wait, why didn't she have she had the exact vowels except I never heard every time she's wrong?
5:44
SPEAKER_02: So uh so I was preparing myself for that.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh but yeah, I think they keep us grounded enough at times that even when we know we're right, we're wrong.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
5:56
SPEAKER_02: But uh it prepares us for these other dealing with other things outside the household.
6:02
SPEAKER_02: Um I yeah, in the music business, you you'd be amazed.
6:05
SPEAKER_02: You first of all, so say you record 10 songs and then you go play them for the entire record label, right?
6:12
SPEAKER_02: And you pretty much can narrow down three or four that you stick out, you know, that feel like a radio, because there these guys are listening as in their either looking for a radio-minded song that's gonna really fit that's the right length and the right this and that and the right hooks and to get to the hook quick and all that.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: So you don't really have a big argument there.
6:32
SPEAKER_02: But what you do is if everybody votes the order of singles, one, two, or three, if we get that far or four, you're gonna see everybody vote different.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: Uh most of the time.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: And when if it's if it's unanimous, then you know you're probably all wrong.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Because you know, but but it's because it can't be right.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, in the studio, uh, you know, it's interesting.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: The as you go along in your life and you start working with better musicians or musicians that get you.
7:03
SPEAKER_02: When you're in the studio, there's never wrong or right.
7:06
SPEAKER_02: There is this constant feeling of you have a freedom.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Everyone has a freedom to try things.
7:13
SPEAKER_02: And the and those things that they're trying are awesome.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like sometimes they don't work out, but there's never a time when you're necessarily wrong.
7:22
SPEAKER_02: Or you're not, you're not pointing out, well, that's just wrong.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: You don't, I'm telling you, we've gotten past that point in my world because I'm with or and surrounding myself around the people that I know that that's not even a thought process.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: It's all positive.
7:38
SPEAKER_02: And uh it's a journey to get there, like we talked about in the last episode as well.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: Do you need to be the best musician in the studio?
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Who?
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Do I need to be the best?
7:50
SPEAKER_02: No, I need to be the best at what I do.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: And and the bass player needs to be the best at what he does, and the drummer needs to be the best at what she does, and the, you know what I mean?
7:59
SPEAKER_02: So, yes, I do, but only at what I do, right?
8:03
SPEAKER_02: The songs, uh, uh thinking about the you know arrangement, and before I get there, I think about pieces and parts and painting everything, and whereas if we need a string section, the cello to do this, so you got to make sure those players are there.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: But the bottom line is you've got to let them do their thing, and you gotta give them the freedom to feel like I get to be creative today because I'm on a Steve Azar record.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: He's gonna let me do that.
8:29
SPEAKER_02: And that you'd be amazed at what you find because uh when you don't constrict them.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: Now, there are producers and things that say, hey, I gotta have this record sounding like that record before because it worked.
8:41
SPEAKER_02: So, no, no, no, you cannot have fun today.
8:44
SPEAKER_02: You've got to listen to that record, and I want that in another version.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: You know, I mean, like you could be in that situation, and that's pretty stifling, and and everybody's looking at their watch going, okay, I can do that in my sleep.
8:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, what are we doing for lunch?
8:55
SPEAKER_02: What oh oh let me go ahead and play this real quick, but they're not in the moment as as much as they could be if you give them the freedom to be wrong.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: You know, but you're not wrong, because the word wrong's never brought up.
9:08
SPEAKER_02: It's just a different, just it's just finding your way to when you go, oh, that's right.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: So I I think that one of the first things that you've just hit on in this topic is your own emotional security and maturity allows you to have really great artists around you.
9:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: You don't feel threatened by them.
9:32
SPEAKER_03: Right?
9:33
SPEAKER_03: And so that's where you get this collaborative kind of vibe going as opposed to the you're right, I'm wrong.
9:41
SPEAKER_03: And the the right-wrong thing always puts the person in a one-down position.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: If I'm wrong, I'm in a it it can be made like you're wrong, you're you're bad, you're in the one-down position.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: But you're not doing that.
9:53
SPEAKER_03: And I think that that doesn't happen for you because you have the sense of uh awareness about what you're trying to achieve and your own skills, but you're confident, you're self-confident, that's all there is to it.
10:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it it comes with sort of you get stars along the way, right?
10:10
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good work, you've worked good together before.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: How did it happen?
10:13
SPEAKER_02: I mean, first of all, it didn't exist in my early growing it in my early ages.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was a struggle at times.
10:20
SPEAKER_02: There was wars, there was bands breaking up, there was all sorts of stuff, you know, different lifestyles, I mean, different everything.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: And even though we had times of, I think, of brilliance along the way and growing up and and things that really made you feel good, there was just so much wrong about what you were doing together, period.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, that it was gonna eventually end.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And and, you know, that it just was meant you just the writing was always on the wrong on the wall.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: And I remember trying to keep things together, walking on eggshells, doing all these things you gotta do just to keep just because you know you had a gig that weekend, you know, back in the youthful teenage days and just beyond.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: So um eventually you get to folks who you find success together uh because you all all are secure about uh allowing everybody to to be able to be themselves.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: But you're also in the room of professionals.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:20
SPEAKER_02: Big different different levels than the ones that talk the game and the ones that are there because they deserve to be there.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Because they're yeah and their attitudes are always beautiful.
11:31
SPEAKER_02: Beautiful attitudes.
11:33
SPEAKER_03: If you're bringing an imposter complex into the room with you, if you don't think in your own heart that you know what you're doing, and somebody challenges you, they these people often crumble right in front of you.
11:47
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
11:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:47
SPEAKER_03: You'll just say, Could you do that a little slower?
11:50
SPEAKER_03: I don't think the timing was right on that or something, and they'll fall apart.
11:52
SPEAKER_03: And you're like, what the hell?
11:54
SPEAKER_03: Or they'll run out into the hallway crying.
11:56
SPEAKER_03: What what did I say?
11:57
SPEAKER_03: What did I do?
11:58
SPEAKER_03: You had nothing to do with what you said.
12:00
SPEAKER_03: It had to do with the fact that they didn't have the constitution and uh uh of confidence.
12:05
SPEAKER_05: Right.
12:05
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:06
SPEAKER_03: Right?
12:07
SPEAKER_02: It's like I love the best way to food on the table.
12:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, everybody's trying to get everybody is pulling for each person to put to do something so creative and so beautiful and so unique, and that when it all comes together, it's gonna be the perfect recipe, right?
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: And that celebration is what we're all aiming for.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: So we're all pulling for each other.
12:28
SPEAKER_02: And so you lift each other up rather than put each other down along the way of the process of making a record, right?
12:34
SPEAKER_00: Right.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that that that goes to the whole idea that you understand what the purpose is, what you guys are trying to do, and why you're doing it.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I look at it, you know, you can you can really directly relate it to Saint Benedict talks about the role of the abbot and and bringing the brothers to council.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: You know, um the abbot obviously is the is that's where the buck stops when it comes to the monastery.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: But it's interesting because he talks about the role of the abbot as one whose responsibility is to make everyone else better.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And uh one of the ways that you do that when you make decisions within the monastery or abbey or whatever whatever facility it is, uh, when you bring them together, you bring everybody together and they all get a seat at the table.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: They all get to give their input, and the abbot is is taking into consideration.
13:33
SPEAKER_00: And Benedict even says, sometimes the best ideas come from the new and the young monks, um, because they bring a completely different perspective than a monk that's been in the in the abbey for 30 years, you know.
13:46
SPEAKER_03: It's also a very strong Navy SEAL uh yeah, exactly.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I I think that we've got to be, as leaders, you've got to be comfortable in your own skin to realize that in order for me to make this business, this organization, this record, whatever it is, uh successful, I have to get everybody engaged.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: And I've got to be comfortable enough in my skin that says I don't have all the answers.
14:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think it's those leaders that think they have all the answers, those are the ones that get in trouble.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, in 40 years of doing this stuff, I've seen a lot of them that do it that way, you know.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: And so really that humility, uh, you know, Benedict talks about the 12-step ladder of humility.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and it really uh looks at a leader is really one of those people that understands that humility is so essential to being a great leader.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: And when you're comfortable in your own skin, when you're exercising humility, you allow people to tell you you're wrong.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: You allow people to bring in new ideas and new concepts and new ways of looking at things that maybe you didn't think of.
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Well, to your point about the the the uh abbot and the rule the role uh in in the monastery there, what I like about what you said was this was a part of the structure of the culture of the monastery.
15:16
SPEAKER_03: This is the way this is the way we do it here.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: So that abbot was putting himself into the position structurally.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: This is the way it is done here.
15:27
SPEAKER_03: And I really like that in an organization.
15:30
SPEAKER_03: When I see a leader uh go bring it.
15:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
15:35
SPEAKER_03: All you know, it's the pool's open, man.
15:38
SPEAKER_03: What are we doing wrong?
15:39
SPEAKER_03: What what should we be doing better, different?
15:42
SPEAKER_03: You know, and it's a very, very rare thing to do.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: The research tells us that as you gain power, you become more isolated.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: As you gain power, you tend to trust your own instincts more.
15:57
SPEAKER_03: But there's we all know the Peter principle, right?
15:59
SPEAKER_03: That you rise to your level of incompetence and that's just no good.
16:05
SPEAKER_03: That's just not a positive thing.
16:07
SPEAKER_03: So and then we looked into gender differences, and it was very interesting because I thought, are women do women leaders deal with this different than men leaders?
16:18
SPEAKER_03: Research is really fuzzy here, but what there are differences, but they are explained not so much by oh, women are different, it is that the the path that took the woman to the top of the of the org chart is going to be different than the one that the man took to get to the top of the org chart.
16:40
SPEAKER_03: And they are scrutinized more all along the way.
16:44
SPEAKER_03: Every decision they make is being looked at and you know, uh and so they are more they have more facility at taking criticism.
16:55
SPEAKER_03: They expect it more and they use it more.
16:59
SPEAKER_03: But uh it it's not like there's it's not like there's a huge difference between men and women, it's just that the sociology uh seems to to make that happen.
17:08
SPEAKER_03: But I really like this idea that it's and what the research does say also about the the echo chamber stuff is it's yeah, it's there, but it's not so strong.
17:20
SPEAKER_03: It's really much more about power.
17:22
SPEAKER_03: It's the more power you have, the more likely you are to eschew criticism.
17:29
SPEAKER_05: Right.
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Right?
17:30
SPEAKER_03: Which is kind of upside down and backwards from the way it should be.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I I look at it from a standpoint of of what is a leader?
17:40
SPEAKER_00: You know, I think too many times in the business world, especially, we look at that leader as a title, uh, as an authority.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, whereas the the really great leaders that I've been blessed to work with over the years, they don't look at it from an authority standpoint at all.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: They look at it from an influence standpoint.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: What can I do to influence those around me to be better at what they do and better at how they do it?
18:06
SPEAKER_00: That's what makes a great leader in the ones that I've worked with.
18:11
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
18:12
SPEAKER_03: I, you know, is there a difference in the style that somebody gives you criticism?
18:18
SPEAKER_03: Right?
18:19
SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh so like I had there was one guy in my life for a long time who was just mean as a snake, but he was consistent.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: And he was usually better.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
18:29
SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
18:30
SPEAKER_03: And uh and so I got to the point where at first I'd be like, God dang, man, this guy is on me.
18:36
SPEAKER_03: What the heck?
18:36
SPEAKER_03: But after about three or four months, I was like, well, he's he was A, he was right, and I am bet I am better now.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: And so I got to where I kind of liked his gruffness.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, and your song, The Coach, uh, Azar, was one of the first ones I went.
18:52
SPEAKER_03: I just love that song because we've all had that guy in our lives at some time, or that woman.
18:58
SPEAKER_03: You can they doesn't matter, yeah, right.
19:01
SPEAKER_03: But uh if you haven't heard Azar's song The Coach, go listen to it.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: What what album is that on?
19:05
SPEAKER_03: I can't recall.
19:06
SPEAKER_02: Alpha Indianola.
19:07
SPEAKER_03: Indianola, another reason it was one of my favorite.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tough as a bag of nails or something like that.
19:12
SPEAKER_02: Tougher than a 10-pound sack of nails.
19:14
SPEAKER_02: He'd throw down his hat and start to yell at the top of his lungs, front and center, son.
19:19
SPEAKER_02: What were you thinking on that play?
19:23
SPEAKER_03: We've seen some of that one on on the sideline.
19:25
SPEAKER_02: I mean, come on, that wrote itself.
19:27
SPEAKER_02: You know, you can imagine.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that that song is so I mean, I needed to write that song.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: And I'm and I and and and I the guy and record it and play it and all that, but the guys I wrote it with, they went through the same thing I went through.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: And we were all feeling the three of us were going like, man, we know the same coach.
19:44
SPEAKER_02: And of course, my coach in my mind, I had him.
19:47
SPEAKER_02: And when my when the coach heard, when when my my coach heard that, he goes, was tell me that was about me, I said, Oh, you better believe it.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: He was so happy.
19:56
SPEAKER_02: He was so happy.
19:58
SPEAKER_02: Like he felt like a proud papa.
20:00
SPEAKER_02: Like, so I wasn't always wrong.
20:02
SPEAKER_02: I wasn't always wrong.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: No, but I wasn't either.
20:08
SPEAKER_02: So anyway, it's pretty good, you know.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: Uh the uh I've been told uh by people that I coach that um I'm too nice.
20:17
SPEAKER_03: And I I get that interested bit, you know, because I'm like, I'm I don't want to just, you know, punch somebody in the face with something.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: And I've had people say, no, you need to just say it.
20:27
SPEAKER_03: That stop stop you know, pussyfooting around here.
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Bring it.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Just put it right up.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: I had one just tell me a few weeks ago that I was too abrasive.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
20:38
SPEAKER_02: You know why?
20:39
SPEAKER_02: Because you're from Minnesota, because you're from South Dakota or Minnesota, and you guys are Midwesterns, you know, you're not being that way.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: You just sort of just sort of that's the idea.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, wow.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: Abrasive?
20:51
SPEAKER_00: Can't say not abrasive before.
20:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're you're you're definitely not abrasive.
20:56
SPEAKER_02: I've I feel no, I feel no uh none of that feeling uh you know raking across my inner being when you talked to me.
21:05
SPEAKER_03: You know, it must have been because the your ideas challenged him at a point that you was.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: It was exactly that.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, it was exactly that.
21:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:15
SPEAKER_02: You're not abrasive.
21:16
SPEAKER_02: You're not an abrasive type.
21:17
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
21:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you definitely challenged him.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: You made him uncomfortable.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I did.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: I did.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: And we know Randy, as you know.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah sometimes that's our role.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes our role is to tell them, tell them the you know, the unvarnished truth to say, this is, you know, this is a this is a challenge.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: This is something that you need to think about and work through, you know.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: Can we stay in theme here?
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Could you tell him he was wrong?
21:45
SPEAKER_02: Right there.
21:46
SPEAKER_02: Who can tell you you're wrong?
21:48
SPEAKER_02: Let's just say it.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Right, right, right.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And and and again, I mean, it's you know, I before I start any coaching engagement, I have that initial conversation that says, listen.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you're not always going to hear from me what you want to hear.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, there are going to be many a time where I'm going to challenge you uh and and ask some really hard questions because that's why you're bringing me in.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And if you're not comfortable with that, well, then we really shouldn't go any further.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Hey, Randy, that sounds a touch abrasive.
22:24
SPEAKER_03: It's a fine grit sandpaper going on there, you know.
22:27
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I I love it when he gets his game face on, though, because he's got one.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, he's a guy that's game face.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: I swear.
22:39
SPEAKER_02: Uh especially probably you know what he did?
22:43
SPEAKER_02: He probably caught you when you didn't have your Starbucks.
22:47
SPEAKER_02: There you go.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Gotta have my Starbucks.
22:52
SPEAKER_03: So sometimes it's not just will you listen to somebody, but it's the way somebody brings that information to you that they can react to.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: And uh in uh in marriages, uh this happens all the time, right?
23:07
SPEAKER_03: So uh there's two distinct categories of conflict communication that happen in in marriage relationships.
23:15
SPEAKER_03: And the first one they call differentiating.
23:17
SPEAKER_03: And differentiating communication is when I would say something like uh uh, well, you know, do you I'm really not in the mood for Chinese food again.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: We had Chinese food last week.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: I know you like the Chinese food, but I'm I'm really kind of in the mood for something else.
23:34
SPEAKER_03: That's differentiating.
23:35
SPEAKER_03: All it's saying is you like this and I like that.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: And it's not that it's you're wrong for liking that or for me liking this, but I'm just calling out the difference.
23:44
SPEAKER_03: That's all it is.
23:45
SPEAKER_03: And so differentiation is a very healthy you know thing to do, generally speaking.
23:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh and that is distinguished from disintegration or disintegrating communication.
24:00
SPEAKER_03: And this is when that same conversation would sound like you gotta be freaking kidding me.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: All you want is China, God dang, you just all you want to eat is the same food all the time.
24:10
SPEAKER_03: What the hell's your problem?
24:11
SPEAKER_03: Come on, break out of the loop of Chinese food.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: I'm just sick of it.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: I'm sick of it, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_03: That's disintegrating.
24:17
SPEAKER_03: That's me saying a terrible person because this is the way you're doing things, and I don't actually like it at all.
24:23
SPEAKER_03: And I really love the term because it is it is exactly what the term means.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: It is pulling apart, it is disintegrating the relationship culture.
24:34
SPEAKER_03: And so I would say that when you're thinking about who you can get uh and you know negative information from, I have had this conversation a lot.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: Like, thank you for what you said, but please don't ever say it to me that way again.
24:48
SPEAKER_03: That that you did not need to go there.
24:50
SPEAKER_03: If and if you want to go there of destroying the relationship that we have, okay, but let's have that conversation.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: Let's not cloak that in a discussion about whether we eat Chinese food or Mexico.
25:03
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: Either literally or metaphorically, when you read your own press, as they say, right?
25:10
SPEAKER_02: Um how does that affect y'all's world versus our world?
25:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you we you we can get a little high on our horse, you know, and we need somebody to bring us down back to the notcha of being hum j making sure that we stay humble and and understand humility and all that the whole way and the whole process.
25:28
SPEAKER_02: There are points where you feel a little bit invincible, right?
25:32
SPEAKER_02: So so how difficult is that for you guys once you've got a company and a CEO rolling, right?
25:40
SPEAKER_02: And they're doing these and it's rolling how difficult it difficult is it if they feel like that it's them?
25:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, have y'all run across that that it's it's them, it's them, it's them.
25:52
SPEAKER_02: I know we touched on it a little bit earlier.
25:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh you talked about it, but I I I wanted to ask this question earlier.
25:57
SPEAKER_02: Have y'all run into that in your in your title?
25:59
SPEAKER_02: Oh sure.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: How do you handle it?
26:04
SPEAKER_03: You do well they what you you you what you have to do is is uh diffuse like you're diffusing a bomb.
26:12
SPEAKER_03: Um you have to take the component parts apart so they can't and what you do is you you you you've got to reduce the gap between self and other, observed and observer.
26:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh us and them.
26:27
SPEAKER_03: And so this is why we get polarized.
26:29
SPEAKER_03: This is what's going on in national politics right now.
26:32
SPEAKER_03: Right.
26:36
SPEAKER_03: There's no middle ground anymore.
26:38
SPEAKER_03: And I I think about that line, uh Eddie Vetter's line in uh one of his songs from 10, when he growls into the microphone, there ain't gonna be any middle anymore.
26:49
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what's the problem is there ain't any middle anymore.
26:53
SPEAKER_03: You know, because when you're dealing with it as a consultant, you I usually try to to think of it as let's let's get the parts and pieces out here and show there's more complexity than just this binary uh distinction between what you are and what I am.
27:10
SPEAKER_02: Mike, when you we've talked about this plenty of times in our life, but I heard something the other day on a podcast uh and I can't remember what what I was listening to, but it was definitive what they were talking about.
27:22
SPEAKER_02: Um felt like if you always think or uh hold yourself second, like there's something or somebody in front of you that you want to lift up.
27:36
SPEAKER_02: So lift yourself up later, like in the scheme of things.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: So as a leader, the best leader is the one that tries to lift everybody below them up.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and you know, I think we and Randy, you hit on a great point on this communication aspect.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: There's there's the way that we communicate outward, but there's also the way we communicate inward.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: How how are we listening?
28:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, if if we're listening with our hackles up, you know, trying to protect our own turf, trying to protect our own ideas, trying to trying to come at it from that angle, that's very different than coming at it, and you guys have heard me say this a million times, the opening line of the rule of Saint Benedict.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: Listen with the ear of your heart.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: When we listen with empathy, when we listen with understanding, when we listen uh to understand what it is someone's telling us, now that's a whole different method of communication than listening the way we want to hear it.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: And and so I I think it's I think it's really vital that from a leadership perspective, we have to kind of tune in to this idea that we're listening um based on where somebody else is coming from and how can we lift them up, just as you said, Steve.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Not oh, they're they're thinking they're challenging me on an idea, they're challenging me by leadership, whatever the case may be.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'm only going to listen to, and and and you make a great point on the politics today, Randy.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, the each side only wants to listen to what they want to hear.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: You know, there is no listening with the ear of your heart in that world today.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: And it's something that's that's quite frankly, I think it's something that's that's a real drag on our society today, because uh it's creating this divisiveness, this anger, this hatred, all of those kinds of things.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: And when leaders, especially in businesses, companies, organizations, those kinds of things, when leaders begin to think like that, and and especially when they're they're modeling it, when they're seeing it all around them in society, whether it's politics or anything else, they begin to model that.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: And when they begin to model that, now they create those same types of problems within their organization, you know.
30:00
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, there's a good reason why 72% of the people in this country are either disengaged or actively disengaged in their work because they don't feel like anybody listens to them.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, and and so leaders put themselves in those positions, and I think it's absolutely vital that that leader understands that it's not only the way you communicate to others, but it's the way that you take that communication yourself.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: It's the way that you I really like that.
30:28
SPEAKER_03: I really, really like that.
30:30
SPEAKER_02: On stage, I can tell you guys that y'all making me think about sort of in my the way I s sort of a show.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: So we played so so say we play the same set over and over, right?
30:40
SPEAKER_02: There's always one of us, not me, and I think one of them that'll go, oh my gosh, what is going on?
30:48
SPEAKER_02: There's just something happening.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: It could be the same part, but just the way it's being played.
30:55
SPEAKER_02: Everybody on stage notices it.
30:56
SPEAKER_02: And everybody at the end of the or look gives them that nod, like, oh my gosh, like that is fire.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for get for doing that.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: And I only notice myself the mistakes I make.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: So I'm always apologizing.
31:09
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, guys, I freaking screwed up this chord.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, that's all I see in myself.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting that that's how I I view myself is I think about the mistakes, but there we all I think all of us on stage feel the same way.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: They all talk about their mistakes themselves.
31:28
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, sorry, sorry.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: God, what am I thinking?
31:30
SPEAKER_02: Da-da-da-da-da.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Because they care that much, but everybody notices the moment of perfection that one of the one of us has, uh, and it's so cool.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: And I just can't I wish I could explain to you why it's just a feeling, you know, and and a moment, and it's probably 30 seconds to a minute of it, you know, and you're like, oh my goodness.
31:52
SPEAKER_03: Let me let me try this.
31:53
SPEAKER_03: So we all cook, and it's it's not dissimilar, I think, from that, where you've made lasagna 400 times or whatever it is.
32:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
32:03
SPEAKER_03: And then you make one and go, oh my God, this thing is exactly right, exactly.
32:10
SPEAKER_03: What the heck happened here?
32:12
SPEAKER_03: And you're not even really sure.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: We have a ritual at our house where uh we the the person who cooks the meal will give a short this is what I did, this is you know why I made this, is what my intent was, and here it is.
32:32
SPEAKER_03: And then uh and then we all eat it and then we'll we'll we'll or you know try it.
32:37
SPEAKER_03: And the person who did the cooking is the one who has to say what could be better.
32:44
SPEAKER_03: What did I miss?
32:45
SPEAKER_03: And we start with with uh don't you know, you don't have to go, oh this is delicious.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: Some you know, and Patty, my wife will be the first one to go, it needed more salt, or it needed no, you know, she usually she'll jump right in because I have a punch list of what's wrong with this lasagna, you know.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: But uh and I had we had some guests over and at uh after dinner was over, we were just on our deck talking and they said, This is just kind of weird that you know you're gonna put somebody on the you know on the grill right there in front of everybody.
33:21
SPEAKER_03: And and everybody and uh the whole family was like, oh no, we do this all the time, and this is it's all done with love, and and it's because you want to be a better cook.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: Right.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
33:32
SPEAKER_03: And so I always take those those bits of Chris.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: And I like to be the guy who goes, here's what I think is wrong with it.
33:38
SPEAKER_03: I made it, and these are the three things that I think Right, right, yeah, yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: You know what's funny about that?
33:45
SPEAKER_02: So we make bowl I make Sunday bologna's every Sunday, right?
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: And and and do you know it's never tasted the same.
33:52
SPEAKER_02: Same ingredients.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: I do this.
33:54
SPEAKER_02: I I I am a little bit loose with my measurements and stuff because I just, you know, I I sort of look at it.
34:00
SPEAKER_02: But guys, why does it taste different every time?
34:03
SPEAKER_02: And there's probably been two times this year that I would have really wanted to serve it to you guys because I was proud of it.
34:10
SPEAKER_02: Out of out of 52 weeks.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: One hypothesis is.
34:15
SPEAKER_03: You're cooking with fresh food.
34:17
SPEAKER_03: That could be always, though.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: I always do that with the bowling.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: So so what is happening?
34:21
SPEAKER_02: You just get the tomato is gonna be different, you know?
34:24
SPEAKER_02: It's just unbelievable.
34:25
SPEAKER_02: It's it's the color, it's everything that you look for.
34:28
SPEAKER_02: And I can't recreate the color, but twice a year.
34:31
SPEAKER_02: I was like, why can I?
34:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, why can't I get this right?
34:35
SPEAKER_02: And uh, but it's like exactly that.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: That's a great analogy.
34:38
unknown: Yeah.
34:39
SPEAKER_02: And then Gwen has made one lasagna over the last couple years, and all I keep doing is referring back to the greatest lasagna I've ever had in my life.
34:48
SPEAKER_02: And I'm I love lasagna.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: Like I love and so uh, and she did it.
34:54
SPEAKER_02: And it was obviously with a white bechamel sauce and a red sauce, you know, but it was just every single layer detail.
35:02
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
35:03
SPEAKER_02: I just know that never it just felt like you were you were eating, as I always say, velvet means like something so velvety.
35:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do the I do the lasagna, I do the lasagna for the family every Christmas Eve, and then usually, exactly.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: No, you know, you you don't do that, you manufacture lasagna.
35:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: But it inevitably one of the kids will come back and say, Oh man, this is the best one you've ever done.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: It's like, hmm, I wonder what I did different.
35:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: I love it.
35:38
SPEAKER_02: We've seen your lasagna, it looks pretty dang amazing.
35:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty proud of my lasagna.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you are for an Irish guy.
35:45
SPEAKER_02: Hey, listen, why why why do we love Italian food?
35:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good question.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Is Italian food ever wrong?
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:54
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about it.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm convinced there was an Italian milkman somewhere.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: Somewhere.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: No, and and Mexican food.
36:02
SPEAKER_02: Mexican food is another food that you just you just love, you know?
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:06
SPEAKER_02: Makes you feel good when you eat just comforting.
36:09
SPEAKER_03: I find myself being attracted to simple foods.
36:12
unknown: Yes.
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Foods come from poverty.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: This is one of the reasons we love southern food so much.
36:17
SPEAKER_03: You know?
36:17
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
36:18
SPEAKER_05: Right.
36:18
SPEAKER_05: Right.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: When you ain't got nothing.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:21
SPEAKER_00: So we we went, we did a we did a cooking class last Saturday with biscuits and they did they did biscuits and gravy.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh my.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh man, and I'm I'm a huge biscuits and gravy fan.
36:32
SPEAKER_00: And uh found some little tricks to the trade on biscuits and gravy, and so I made them on Sunday morning, and oh, that turned out good.
36:41
SPEAKER_02: And biscuits and gravy probably came from tough touching.
36:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely it did.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely it did.
36:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: And it's it's so good.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's just so good.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: It's fine if after you have that, then you go out and work the field for four hours.
36:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: I sat down to watch the Vikings game, so I guess that that's not so good.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: You do have to go sitting down and watching the Vikings game after you have three biscuits and a bowl of gravy is probably not as good as going to play 36 holes walking much.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Well, we did actually go out and play nine holes of golf after the Viking.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's close enough.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: That's close enough.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: And right now, the way I play golf, nine holes, is kind of like 27.
37:24
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, for me too.
37:26
SPEAKER_02: Just just FYI.
37:28
SPEAKER_02: There was a time when me and Mike did place 54 holes in a day.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's exactly right.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Many a time when I was younger.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Nuts.
37:37
SPEAKER_02: Just sunup and sundown, how many holes can you play?
37:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: So that brings up an interesting point because the the eight times that I've picked up a golf club in my life, one of the things that I realized was that your internal monologue gets really loud.
37:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh so you hit the ball, and it never, for me, went where I thought it should or you know would go the way I wanted it to.
38:02
SPEAKER_03: And so immediately there's this critic in my head going, well, because I heard, oh, you didn't, your your stance was wrong, and your grip was wrong, and your swing was wrong.
38:11
SPEAKER_03: And so there's so much internal negative communication.
38:15
SPEAKER_03: So how do we deal with self-criticism?
38:18
SPEAKER_03: So it's one way to get criticism from other people, but I think the worst critic is the one that's in between your ears is fine.
38:26
SPEAKER_03: What the hell were you thinking there?
38:28
SPEAKER_02: Well, you're not getting, you're not, nobody's gonna believe you if you don't believe in yourself.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly right.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
38:34
SPEAKER_00: I think that internal, I think that brings up a great point, Randy.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: That that internal critic, you know, who can tell you you're wrong?
38:41
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't really want myself to tell me I'm wrong, yeah, you know, constantly.
38:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously there are times when you you say, What in God's name were you thinking there, you dummy?
38:53
SPEAKER_00: But you know, to your point on the golf course, it's like I don't need this, you know, verbatim thing going in my head, like, well, that's not how you're supposed to hit it.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's you know, and and these days that happens a lot.
39:06
SPEAKER_03: Yes, you know, you you you get such immediate feedback, right?
39:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
39:13
SPEAKER_03: And it's public.
39:14
SPEAKER_03: That's the other thing.
39:15
SPEAKER_03: There's usually 19 people standing around watching this ridiculous thing that you just did.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: And so there's no and I think that public uh mirroring amplifies because you it's not like you made the mistake in private.
39:31
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I guess that's the fun about going out and just shagging balls, right?
39:34
SPEAKER_03: It's just nobody cares if you're on the driving range.
39:36
SPEAKER_03: It's just you're just quacking away at it, getting it done.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: But uh, when you're out there on the course, that I just feel a tremendous sense of vulnerability because I know everybody on the course is playing better than me, and they're all looking at me, and at least that's what it feels, my my internal critic.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Right.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Your internal conversation.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
39:57
SPEAKER_03: And what I really need to be doing is giving myself grace.
40:00
SPEAKER_03: I really need to be saying, dude, you've never done this before.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: Listen to these people.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: Ask, oh, well, what did I do wrong there?
40:06
SPEAKER_03: What's specific?
40:07
SPEAKER_03: Give me some feedback.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: What did I do wrong there, as opposed to feeling like I should somehow be able to walk out there and be Gary player the first time I I hit the ball.
40:15
SPEAKER_03: That ain't gonna happen.
40:16
SPEAKER_05: Right.
40:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
40:18
SPEAKER_03: And if we could learn to shut that thing up in here, it might totally change the way we listen to your point, Mike.
40:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, when somebody does bring us legitimate criticism.
40:28
SPEAKER_03: Right.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I and I I think I think as I mean, uh, you know, the term you use, give giving yourself grace.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, we are way too hard on ourselves.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:39
SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I talk about listening with the ear of your heart to others, but sometimes you got to listen to the with the ear of your heart to yourself.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: And and give yourself grace, give yourself uh room to grow versus this constant criticism of what are you doing that for again, and and again, and again, and again, and you know, and so I think being able to to quiet that voice and to really listen with empathy and and give yourself grace is is a real important aspect of of great leadership.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: Because if you're constantly criticizing yourself, it also means you're probably not being very good at listening to what others are are giving you.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
41:24
SPEAKER_03: If I had a gong, that would be it.
41:29
SPEAKER_03: We need a resonance gong, by God.
41:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there we go.
41:32
SPEAKER_02: Hey, you know what I love about you?
41:34
SPEAKER_02: Guess who get what guess what band had a gong behind their drummer?
41:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
41:41
SPEAKER_02: We had a gong with this my logo on it.
41:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh, dude.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: For years.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: So I think I think you need to get that in your in your office there for next time, and we'll we'll we'll bang it around every time Randy comes up with a long word.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: I totally forgot we had a gong.
41:54
SPEAKER_02: We had a gong, and we also had a a little person.
41:57
SPEAKER_02: We had mini me on stage before Big and Rich ever thought about having a mini person.
42:01
SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: All right.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: Well, you guys uh bring us to Randy.
42:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, I think that uh one of the things that I've enjoyed about the podcast is that uh I've had so many people call me and tell me what they don't like about it.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: But but you tell them they were wrong?
42:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I did.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: You know, hey, you know, we're doing the best we can, by God.
42:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but you have any idea how difficult it is to produce these things?
42:28
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
42:29
SPEAKER_03: So um uh but I I have it is interesting because we do this, right?
42:34
SPEAKER_03: We put it out there, and we want feedback, and certainly we like positive feedback, but I actually love it when people call and they say blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
42:43
SPEAKER_03: Lewis Hershey, the guy that uh wrote that wonderful uh he's listened to just about every episode, and he's like, here's the 31 things you guys might want to do.
42:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I love it.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: I know.
42:55
SPEAKER_03: I did too.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: It was awesome.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
42:58
SPEAKER_03: And Azar, you need we I need to get some swag from you to send to this guy because he has been super helpful.
43:04
SPEAKER_02: Uh only if he only if he tells us 31 things that he absolutely loves about us.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
43:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's got to send another email.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: That's fair.
43:13
SPEAKER_02: He's a good guitarist.
43:14
SPEAKER_03: He's a good guitarist and musician, too.
43:15
SPEAKER_03: So maybe a good one.
43:16
SPEAKER_03: I love it.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'll give him some swag.
43:18
SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
43:19
SPEAKER_03: All right, we'll make that happen.
43:20
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, this is it.
43:21
SPEAKER_03: Everything we do should be shaped by the feedback that we get, positive and negative, from what's around us.
43:30
SPEAKER_04: I agree.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: And and and I think that's what this episode is really coming down to.
43:35
SPEAKER_03: If you're not getting any criticism, you're not living.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
43:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:39
unknown: Yeah.
43:40
SPEAKER_02: And also you're not you're not um affecting anybody.
43:45
SPEAKER_02: Nobody's paying attention.
43:46
SPEAKER_02: So you do we do want to hear what how good how we can get better.
43:50
SPEAKER_02: The first time I started my radio show in a Mississippi Minute almost 10 years ago, um, I I had my buddy Gary Ballantine and my great H.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: Bud Nelson, who's in heaven right now, they both said the same thing to me after like the first two months.
44:03
SPEAKER_02: They said, Steve, you're you're good at this.
44:05
SPEAKER_02: Your show's gonna last really good.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: Because you you feel you're so comfortable with anybody.
44:11
SPEAKER_02: But listen.
44:12
SPEAKER_02: Takes just listen.
44:14
SPEAKER_02: And then of course Mike sent me the listening thing that sits in front right here.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: So, but but I I was able I'm glad I was able to hear that early from multiple places, and then obviously Mike reassuring that, re excuse me, reinforcing that because I needed it early for sure.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: I needed it later for sure, because uh you you'd be amazed at what goes through my mind.
44:36
SPEAKER_02: I hope nobody experiences this uh when I get excited about a conversation and I want to jump in, you know.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: But you gotta learn to just take a second, write a note, and then let the person finish.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: And it's just uh I've gotten I I really feel like I go back and listen and I know I have, and then they would tell me way to go.
44:55
SPEAKER_02: You know, like so I mean they know, because otherwise they weren't gonna be nice to me.
44:58
SPEAKER_02: So you're 100% correct.
45:01
SPEAKER_02: Critique, critique, critique.
45:03
SPEAKER_02: Uh especially from people that love you, you know, that won't you that want you to be better.
45:07
SPEAKER_02: They're they're telling you for a reason to make it better.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: So people can find us somewhere.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: They can find us at resonanceleader.com.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:19
SPEAKER_03: And uh YouTube anywhere else.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: And uh all the major, all the major platforms.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh certainly uh we're also available to come to you.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Bring out Resonance Live.
45:30
SPEAKER_00: We can uh uh do a leadership for you.
45:34
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be coming out very short.
45:35
SPEAKER_00: Mike Barrell with less grumbling.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: What is it?
45:39
SPEAKER_00: More thriving, less grumbling, a field guide to monastic principles for leading wisely and creating impact.
45:46
SPEAKER_04: And you don't have to be a monk.
45:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't have to be a monk.
45:49
SPEAKER_00: Which by the way, my friends Steve Azar and Randy Harrington wrote the forward to.
45:54
SPEAKER_00: So uh you're not gonna want to miss it.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, hey, we'll have more on the next couple of episodes when it's gonna be out, but it's very short.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: On behalf of Mike the Monk got Pharaoh, Randy Harrington, the PhD, and Steve Azar, who's never wrong, we appreciate you guys tuning in.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: Have a blessed one later on.
46:13
SPEAKER_01: Take care, guys.com.