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Fictional Women Around the World: Bo-Katan Kryze · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told you, a production of iHeartRadio. And welcome
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to another sub sub sub segment of fictional women around
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the world where we are continuing our Star Wars celebration
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: in honor of the fortieth anniversary I Returned the Jeddi
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: and the forty fifth anniversary of a New Hope. And
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: this is kind of like as this comes out, kind
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: of the twenties of may Or when all these movies
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: came out. So it feels like a very Star Wars
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: time to me. Holly friend of the show, a huge
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: Star Wars fan. Her birthdays around this time, and I
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: always think of her, and so I'm just in a
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Star Wars state of mind, which is, you know, like
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: my usual but whatever. Still, Also, I always appreciate you,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Samantha going on for this ride. You already heard me
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: get a little worked up. Oh I this time before.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: You'd be like, okay, let's record this, because.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I will say there are spoilers.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: I'll say massive spoilers for Mandalorian season three if you
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: haven't seen it. I have not seen it, but I've
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: already been spoiled. On it. I was spoiled on it
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: before we decided to do this, so I'm not mad
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: about it, but just know there are going to be
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: I did leave some things out, but you're going to
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: be pretty spoiled. Okay, okay, Yes, you can also see
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: our Stine Kreese episode, and our Sabine Rim episode which
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: we just had as a classic, and our Ahsoka episode
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: because the character we're talking about today, Boca Tan Kreese,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: plays a big part in all of those, so check
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: that out. I guess you could also see the one
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I did about toxicity in Mandalorian culture. I guess you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: could check that out too, Okay. A lot of stuff,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. This character is so fascinating to
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: me because she's both she's like well loved and well
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: hated bad like a lot of people hate her, but
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of people love her.
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: I liked her from what I know of what I've
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: seen thus far, and again that's not including the rabbit.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Little attack of the Clay Clawns and yeah, yeah, yeah, no,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I like. I think she's a fascinating character. And we're
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: going to go through history, and it is a bumpy history.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: But I've just always found that kind of interesting is
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: that she does have such a fan following, and then
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: there's like a sect and even the actor who plays her,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Katie Sakoff, has an interview that's kind of gone viral,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: at least in my circle. It probably hasn't, but like
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: the Star Wars circle, it's kind of gone viral where
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: she kind of breaks down the percentage of like seventy
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: percent of people love her, twenty percent this, ten percent this,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and five percent of this. But I'm going to talk
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: about that a little bit more at the end. I
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: have so want to mention this was a delight that
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I found out when I visited my mom on Mother's Day.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: She is in her Star Wars era. She has seen
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: more than me. She has seen Mandalorians.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean she hasn't seen some of the cartoons,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: but she's seen like a lot of stuff that I
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: did not. This was not me pressuring her. She even
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: like double checked because she was worried she had lost
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: She uses my Disney Plus account and she was worried
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: she'd lost it and was like, no, I'm in the
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: middle of this. I got to fix it. It's like, okay,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: we can work this out. I hear you have been there.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Fix it. It was very very It's not lost. She
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: was in the middle of Kenoby, I think, and she
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: was like, I gotta know, Okay's.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: One of the slowest of them, like you.
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Kind of know what happens. But she was in it, man,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: she was in it, and I love it. I love
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: it. It was. It was so fun. We got to talk
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: about like some really obscure Star Wars stuff.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: Watched the Holiday Special though, yes.
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Of course she her watching the Holiday Special was one
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: of the most on Christmases I've ever had because she
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: kept looking at me and saying, is this real? And
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I was like, yes, it is.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: That's a legitimate question, it is, mom.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: And then there's a lot of Star Wars stuff happening
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: right now. I just finished the second season of Visions.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: I really liked it. The Ahsoka trailer came out, which
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: ok ten may show up in who knows. All right,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: but let's get into the history. I cannot stress enough.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Go see our stin Creeze episode, even though I mispronounced
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: her name because I didn't know it at the time.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Because it has a lot more like of the history
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: of Mandolore and Mandalorian politics and that stuff is really confusing,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: and I just don't want to explain it again, so
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I'm kind of glaze.
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: I just know it weighed on you the minute you
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: heard the name. You're like, no, I I've never noticed.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: This is like shame to my name, like what I did,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: like an apology.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I know what?
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes, yes, so Keen is Bokatan's sister. So
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: there they play big rolls on. They're kind of opposites
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, even in looks. They were
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: designed to be opposite, and that's going to be throughout this.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: But she first appeared in the fourteenth episode of the
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: four season of Star Wars, the Clone Wars, and in
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: an episode called A Friend in Need that came out
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: in twenty twelve. And the name apparently is a nod
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: to Felony Dave Filoni, whose creator his wife's cat. Of course,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: of course, why we're obviously.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: He's right out of real people, so he's gonna name
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: the be cup.
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: I mean, well, at this point he has so many
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: already dedicated, so might as welcome for the pets now right.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: I do love kind of the contrast of Setene Bokatar
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: name wise, Yes, so Bokaton Kreze is voiced and played
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: in live action by Katie Sackoff. It was a big
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: deal when she showed up in the Mandalorian season two
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: because she does kind of spot On look like her,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: but also that just doesn't happen very often where the
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: voice actor plays the live action character, so it was
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: a pretty big deal. She's a human Mandalorian princess and
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: member of House Crees, and she is opposed to her
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: pastist sister. Her sister is very pacifist in her political
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: belief she tried to steer Mandalor that way, but Bocatan
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: was fascinated with the warrior past of Mandalor and Mandalorians.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: She spent most of her time growing up in the
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Mandalor system, which is kind of unique among Mandalorians as well,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: especially Mandalorians that grew up in that period. After the
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: death of their father, Setine became the Duchess of Mandalor,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: while Bocatan inherited a set of armor passed down through
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: their family through generations, and she swore the Mandalorian creed
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: in the living waters of the mines of Mandolor, but
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: she did not believe there was anything special about it.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: She thought it was just a spectacle. She did it
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: kind of for political points, and then she was very
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: eager to get back to Mandalor's history of war and
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: combat in the face of everything her sister believed in
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: and was striving for. So she joined a terrorist group
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: called death Watch, and this was led by pre Visla
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: and yes, that is paus Visla from the Mandalorian once
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they were exiled from the Mandalorian system, so he was
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: kind of leaning it. They tried to forge a partnership
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: with Count Dooku in the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: when that didn't work, they instead joined forces with former
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: Sith Darth Maul, who, if you've seen the movies, show
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: not really a good guy, but he is an interesting
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: He's an interesting fellow. He's got some nuances as well,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: and also Maul's brothers Savage Oppress. They came up with
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: the plan to utilize Mal's Shadow Collective, which included several
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: crime syndicates to take back Mandalor. So if you've seen
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: like the end of Solo, that's kind of what was
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: going on there, though Bocatan did point out that the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: last time they'd worked with a Sith Douku. It had
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: not gone well, and she did secretly express doubts about
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: this whole thing. So Satine's rule was overthrown by Deathwatch
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: and pre Visla's. He kind of stepped in as the leader,
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: but then they didn't last long because Mal. They had
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: arrested Mal. They were kind of like, oh, I gotcha,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: we were just using you to get the throwne and
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: he was like all right, and then he escaped and
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: then challenged pri Visla in a duel for the Dark Saber, which,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: as you know, that's kind of in the Mandalorian more
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: that makes you the king the ruler, and Mal killed
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Visla and banished Bogaton and her night Owls, and she
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: vehemently said no outsider should rule Mandalor, but they were
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: forced to flee. An imperial puppet leader was installed, something
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Bocaton really couldn't stand for. She realized that she'd messed
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: up and helped free her sister and contacted a Jedi
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: that had previously confronted Mal Obie one Kindobi and yes,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: that is also Setine's love interest. Did I mention for
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: added drama. Mandalorians and the Jedi were ancient enemies. What Also,
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: there's a big conspiracy theory about Bacaton and Satine's nephew
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Kuirky Kreese. Why what Quirky Creese.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And whether Obiton are like so like? But you have
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Quirky Quirky de deer. Quirky Quirky is a good dude.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: But there's speculation that obi Wan is his dayad.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: None of them could think of a better name than Quirky.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Oh no, nothing, no. Setine I also learned is based
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: on Kate La Chant and also the name is from
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: Mulin Rouge Satin, who Ewan McGregor, who plays Obi Wan
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: fell in love with. I don't know if that's confirmed,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: but everybody seems to think it's true or so. Obi
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Wan was castured by Mal due to related Mandalorian drama.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: I am skimming over so much, but otherwise would be
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: here forever and Mal killed se teen to punish obi Wan.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: She died in his arms. Bocatan helped free obi Wan
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: and fought alongside him, and then she requested aid from
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: the Republic. And as the viewer, you know Order sixty
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: six is literally just about to happen, but she doesn't
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: know that she receives the aid, but it's less than
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: she would have liked. And there's also like this whole
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: hold up that she detested of obi Wan getting approval.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: She was like, just give it to me, my sister,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: you loved her, and he was like, I gotta get
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: approval lot. And a lot of these reinforcements did get
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: rerouted due to Palpatine's machinations, but with the help of Ahsokatano,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: they were able to defeat Darth Maul. Bocatan was briefly
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: regent of Mandalor, but when she refused to answer to
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the Emperor, she was portrayed by Clan Saxon for the Empire,
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: and their leaders wore allegiance to the Empire, and he
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: became the Imperial Viceroy and governor of Mandalor. Brief aside,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: Ahsoka had previously met, Bocatan had been captured by Deathwatch,
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to execution and escapes, but they ended up
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: joining forces in sort of an enemy of my enemy
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: is my friend mentality, which is absolutely Bocaton like that
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: is her to fight mal but they parted on good terms.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: They shook hands. Bocaton affectually called her something like a
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: force wielding psycho. I assume it was. It seemed affectionate
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: believed that Krez would be a good leader for Mandelre.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Their relationship is complicated in the source of a lot
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: of fan fiction. Oh my gosh, I will say that,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: and then okay. A lot of Mandalorian politics followed. Clan
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Wren tried to overthrow Clan Saxon, which led to a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: civil war. All of that eventually led to Clan Wren
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: presenting the Dark Sabers. So yes, go sier Sibn episode
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: for more about that. But if you remember, it must
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: be one in combat traditionally and essentially means that the
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: wielder is the ruler of Mandelor. So when they gave
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: it to Bocton, they kind of broke tradition. The Empire
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: retaliated with all this because they were like, oh, they're
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: never gonna join us with something called the Great Purge
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: of Mandalor, which they did depict in season three. Many died,
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: the planet was decimated, and Bocaton lost the Dark Saber
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to math Gideon. So she gathered a group of Mandalorians,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: yes the night Owls, and they made a plan to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: retake the Dark Saber from Gideon, who is now leading
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: an imperial remnant to reclaim Mandlor. She met all of
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: the Ghost Crew from rebels and strongly chastised Sabine Wren
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: for making a weapon called the Duchess after her sister
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: because it would destroy Mandalorian armor, which was considered sacrilege.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: They went on to work together to destroy it with
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: a Mandalorian bow, Trusted confiding he thought Sabine would be
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: a good leader m foreshadowing. Kurz and Wren were captured
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and tortured in this whole thing, but Sabine managed to
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: reprogram the Duchess to target stormtrooper armor instead. Sabine wanted
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: to kill the trader Saxon, but Bo warned her she
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: is called Bo for short. Bou warned her it would
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: make her no better than the Empire and it would
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: not be honorable for Mandalorian. And this is when Sabin
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and her mom told Bo, you would be a good leader.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Here have the Dark Saver. Skipping ahead, she met the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Mandalorian Dan Dejarn. She promised to give him info on
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: the Jedi he was searching for. In this case, she
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: was promising info about Ahsoka if he helped her in
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: her quest to regain the Dark Saber, and she later
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: helped him rescue Grogor as a part of all of this,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: though she wasn't happy because she's like, look, I need
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: to be the one that gets it from Gideon in combat, okay.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: And then because of circumstances, Dandajaran had to fight, I'm
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: off Gideon and he won the Dark Sab and she
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: refused to take it from him even when he yielded,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: because she was so she thought kind of blamed herself
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: because of everything that happened, believed it was because she
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: hadn't won the blade and had been given it instead.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: After that, and this is where we're moving into season
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: three spoilers, so just your final warning. After that, most
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of her colleagues abandoned her, so she gave up on
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: reclaiming Mandalora and tried to retire on Kalevala, the house
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: of the home of House Creese and also the place
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: she spent most of her time growing up. Mando de
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Dejaron chose up with Grogu asking about the location of
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the minds of Mandalor because he has to visit them
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to a tone for breaking his creed, which he did
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: by showing his face to someone not in his clan.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: She told him like, don't bother the planet is poisoned,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: but gave him the location and he promised to tell
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: her if it was in fact poisoned. And then Grogu
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: came back piloting himself a solo, and she was like,
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: oh God, what happened here? So she went back to
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Mandlor with him. To her shock, the air was safe
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: to breathe. She rescued Mando, who had been captured by
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: like a cyborg thing, and she used the Dark Sab
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: to do that. They go to the living waters and
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Mando recites his vow and then just falls into the waters.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: She goes to rescue him and sees the legendary Mythosaur,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: which you've seen the insignia of if you've seen the show,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: but Mando doesn't remember seeing it, and she doesn't tell
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: him that she saw it. Imperial bombed her castle, and
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: though she was willing to die fighting them, Mando convinced
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: her to come with him to the enclave of his creed,
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: instructing her to wear her helmet to make it less tense,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: because they really don't like it. They don't think you're
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: a Mandolorian. If you shirt your face, this is a
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: whole thing. The armorer, who is kind of Mando's adoptive mother,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: agreed that he was a Mandalorian in her eyes once
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: again and asked Bo if she had bathed in the
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: waters too, and she said yes she had, and then
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Armor ass we'll have you removed your helmet since then.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: And when Bo confirmed that she had been in the
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: waters but hadn't removed her helmet since, the armor decided
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: she too was redeemed and Bo was welcomed into the enclave.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Bocatan helped save a Mandalorian foundling, which just means kind
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: of a kid, and this is the greatest honor of
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: a Mandalorian, so she has praised even more. The Armor
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: replaces her damaged armor. I'm Bo asked not for the
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: night owl symbol, but for the symbol of the Mithasaur.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: She also helped fight pirates off of Navarro, which is
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: the planet grief Karga is from and where a Mando's
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: Enclave has been a lot of time living. So then
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: the Armor tells Bo to remove her helmet, telling her
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: she represents all Mandalorians, those who follow the way, never
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: removing their helmet and those that don't, and that they
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: would follow her in her quest to reclaim Mandalori. Also,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the Dark Saber was broken.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: What.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some people are really mad about it because they
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: were like, you finally gave her the Dark Saber and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: a broke and now useless, like.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: That big plot is gone.
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I haven't seen it, so don't I'm just
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: saying what I've heard and read about. I'm pretty sure
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: it's broken, So she's definitely not She's gonna be showing
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: up a bunch. I'm sure we'll revisit this in the future,
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: but in the meantime, I did want to briefly talk
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: about some of the fan reaction that I have seen.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: So one of them was this kind of anger that
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: she replaced Din Dejarn the Mandalorian uh fanboys being mad
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that she isn't talkable or that they just wanted her
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: kind I guess they kind of feel like the whole
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: plot was more about her and less about him, and
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: they're like, but there's a show, and there's sort of
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like there's good faith arguments to that and bad faith arguments.
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of people were like, she should have had
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: her own show because it was the season was mostly
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: about her, but it's also called the Mandalorian, so you know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I could see arguments either way. The behind every great
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Man trope is certainly at place because she's sort of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: like the one who's been pushing all along, like we
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: need to take Mandalor back, we need to get Mandlorins together,
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: all this stuff, and he's just kind of like, you
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: do it, which is legit. I wouldn't want to do
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: it either, Yeah, and it is also some people have
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: criticized that it's kind of like the technicalities of the
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Dark Saber were being used too much with her story
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of like how you can get it and what ways
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like acceptable, which that's kind of like when you break
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: it down, it gets messy, it gets really bussy, but
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: also kind of undermining of her character, of her serving
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: as sort of a subplot to The Mandalorian. Mandlorian's story,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: a dude story. This whole thing about the helmet, Oh
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: my gosh, you guys, the fighting about the helmet. This
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: is why, like the religious trauma, I'm telling you, we
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: could do a whole big about this. And then also
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: some people criticize like Dindajar and does he does swear
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: his allegiance to her, but has not really given development
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: to show that he cares. So it's sort of like
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: a hollow thing, or that's what some people felt anyway.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: And then here's a quote I wanted to include from Collider,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: having said that the Mandalorian season three essentially flipped protagonist.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: It's the inverse of the Book of Boba Fett, a
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: series dndajar and infamously took over halfway through in a
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: clumsy rush move that wrecked all semblance of season two's
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: emotional beats. Even though she's the anti heroin turned heroin
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: this franchise always needed. Bogatan distracted the Mandalorians narrative focus
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: in a way that epitomizes a continued lack of storytelling
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: coherency within Star Wars television. Denn deserves better from his
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: narrative stewards, but so does the Great Lady Creeds. Yeah,
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: so that's kind of what I was complaining about to
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: you before. Is I just feel like a lot of
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: these things have turned into they don't commit to stuff.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: Oh and then they also are kind of always is it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Just like an advertisement for the next show they want
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: to do?
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: That's what I feel like, Yeah, because I mean, ah
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Soca Guy Ahsoka got dinged for that too, which she
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: showed up in the Mandalorian where it was kind of like, oh,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: here's your backdoor pilot for this thing, or or like
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: here's the advertisement for the next season of this thing,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: which I think can be done in a way that works,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: but as so much of it it does kind of
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: like take over the narrative story or the focus.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So I yeah, I feel like it could be done
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: like a one or two episodes, not half the.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Story right right, And again, like I do think it
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: it could work, but that's my one of my biggest critiques.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: And I was telling you, like, I feel like I
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: can't complain about anything about Star Wars because there's so
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: many terrible stars fans and they complain about things, but
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: they're doing it like a sexist, racist or whatever way,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to be associated with them. But
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: so I'm very defensive, like I'm like, no, I boke Aten, yes,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and I do like Boca ten, And I haven't seen this,
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: so I'm just saying I agree with this critique and
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: past things that I have seen, but I also a
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: very defensive of because of these bad actors, bad fans.
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: Ill I mean it also like it does exactly the opposite.
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: Instead of helping gain you fans, the loyal ones to
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: that story, the Mandalorian story are now more pissed off
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: at this female character taking over instead of Yeah. So
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like you adding on the hate by
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: doing something that you're thinking is going to add fans,
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: but it really doesn't, right for sure.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate that they're adding more like diversity, but
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: I do feel like they're not getting the same storyline support,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: so that that's also an issue. I do feel like,
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: not only do they a lot of times I'm like,
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: well you did, not only did you not commit to something,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: you completely backtracked on all of this.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that I.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: Don't really like I did. This is the part I'm
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: not going to get into. But I found this whole
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: thing about how like this whole season has been an
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: example of them kind of throwing up plotlines about characters
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: that you love, but they're like, no, we hate them now,
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: and they don't really explain why. That is another thing
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: I don't like. But that comes down to like the
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: Watsonian versus Douleian argument that I did talk about in
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: my Happy Hour my fan fiction is better than yours,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: which was about this where you know, there's like a
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: good way to explain in universe why things are happening,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: and then there's us as viewers being like, oh, they
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: can't afford this, or oh the technology doesn't exist or
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: oh whatever whatever. That is kind of an issue going
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: on here. I will say, like, I do intend to
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: watch season three, but right now, a lot of the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: stuff I'm getting it's very spicy. People have strong opinions
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: about it, so most of them are kind of like
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: I liked it, but but it's not like hate. It's
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: just kind of funny. I'm getting a lot of the
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: the spicy, like I can't believe they did this or this,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: but that happens at the end of everything. Like I said,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: it's not hate. It's just sort of like, ooh, that
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: fired up. I want to talk about it. It didn't go
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: necessarily the way I want. But it's also very funny
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: because there's a tag I see in fan fiction a
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: lot called my very complicated Feelings towards Bocaton Craze. Really yeah, well,
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: and there's also one for Setine Crew there's one for
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: like every character. It's not okay, yeah, no, but it's
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: just funny.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Just because no, no, no, no, that makes more sense.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: No, it's more because it's sort of Mandalorian history is
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: such a mess. But it's always everything in Star Wars,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: like it's all, it's all.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, you have three different versions of the original movement.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Yes, And then I did want to end with this
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: one quote from Bocaton. I wish I was good at
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: something other than war.
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: She's very she's very She's a compelling character. Yeah, she
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: she is very conflicted, and she did make these huge
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: mistakes that kind of at least in her mind, and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: I would say I accurately did help bring the end
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: of the Mandler. She knew and she's trying to atone
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: for him, which I think is a compelling storyline, and
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: especially like her sister died in part because of like
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: her bringing Deathwatch to the planet. So yeah, I mean,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: she's got a lot going on, and I'm sure she's
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: going to show up and she might get her own show.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I've heard rumors that she might. Okay, so we'll see,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: we'll see. And I could go on and on about
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: her too, but for now. That's it. For now, That
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: is all I have to say. But a listeners. If
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you have something to say, please write in and let
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: us know. You can email us Stephanie mom Stuff at
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter at
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok a stuff
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: one ever told you. You can also find us on YouTube.
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: We have a book pre ordered at stuff you should
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: read books dot com. Things. As always, to our super
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: producer Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our controder Joey,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, yes, and thanks to you for listening. Steph,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: I never told you the protection of my Heart Radio.
• 25:12
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• 25:13
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• 25:15
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