Latest / The Parenting Podcast / The Invisible Backpack: What Your Child Brings Home | Ep. 224

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The Invisible Backpack: What Your Child Brings Home | Ep. 224 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Christie: you've lived a whole life- that- very easily no adult in your life could know about-
• 0:05
  Christie (2): if you didn't share it.
• 0:09
  Speaker: We know our children come back home carrying more than we can see.
• 0:14
  Speaker: A moment that made them feel 10 feet tall, something that left them wondering where they fit, a worry they haven't found words for yet.
• 0:27
  Speaker: Some of it will spill out easily.
• 0:30
  Speaker: Some of it may stay tucked away.
• 0:33
  Speaker: Today, let's talk about the invisible backpack and how we can become a safe place for our children to open it
• 0:49
  Cheryl: Joanne and Christie, here we are at the back to school-
• 0:53
  Joanne: Yes
• 0:54
  Cheryl: season here.
• 0:54
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 0:55
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 0:55
  Joanne: I have a junior in high school.
• 0:57
  Cheryl: But it's not the same as when you have little ones,
• 1:00
  Cheryl A: when the big, big decision is what color backpack are you gonna choose?
• 1:07
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 1:07
  Cheryl A: You know?
• 1:07
  Cheryl A: I don't know about y'all, but-
• 1:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 1:09
  Cheryl: we would have to go, and they would have to vet all of the backpacks
• 1:13
  Christie: Yeah
• 1:13
  Cheryl: and then choose what color notebooks
• 1:15
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 1:15
  Christie: Mine would create a whole color scheme- for the year.
• 1:18
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:18
  Christie: Yeah, that was fun.
• 1:19
  Christie: I loved that back to school shopping.
• 1:20
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 1:20
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:21
  Cheryl: And now it just gets more expensive when they're in high school and towards college, because then they don't want a Walmart backpack.
• 1:28
  Christie: Right.
• 1:29
  Cheryl: You know?
• 1:29
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 1:31
  Cheryl: Okay, but backpacks are a big part of all of it, and if you go to any school or anywhere, kids just have their backpacks everywhere.
• 1:39
  Cheryl: But- That's the backpack we can see.
• 1:42
  Cheryl: And when I'm thinking about it, I thought of an imagery with it.
• 1:47
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 1:47
  Cheryl: And it's the invisible backpack.
• 1:50
  Joanne: Huh.
• 1:51
  Joanne: What's that?
• 1:51
  Joanne: Invisible backpack.
• 1:52
  Joanne: Explain.
• 1:53
  Cheryl: Yeah, whether they're going to daycare or a class or sports-
• 1:57
  Joanne: Mm-hmm,
• 1:57
  Cheryl: mm-hmm or off to school or whatever it is.
• 2:00
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 2:01
  Cheryl A: They have a physical backpack they take out the door with them.
• 2:04
  x: Mm-hmm.
• 2:04
  Cheryl: When they come home, they don't just have that physical backpack.
• 2:08
  Cheryl: They have an invisible backpack that they bring with them, too.
• 2:13
  Joanne: Oh, okay.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 2:14
  Cheryl: So all the stuff that has happened to them through the day, relationships or a success, failure- Mm what someone said, what they didn't say, how they played at soccer, whether or not they got the notes in their music lesson, whatever it is, all of that goes into their invisible backpack.
• 2:33
  Cheryl: Oh.
• 2:33
  Christie: That is really good.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: Yeah, I
• 2:35
  Christie: love
• 2:35
  Cheryl: that.
• 2:35
  Cheryl: Isn't that a great image?
• 2:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: Yes, great.
• 2:37
  Cheryl: And so when they come back home and we're together...
• 2:39
  Cheryl: everybody's coming in with these invisible backpacks of their whole day.
• 2:43
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:44
  Cheryl: And I want us to explore that so that we can be thinking about not just what we see,"Oh, you didn't bring your cleats home," or whatever it is in the physical backpack.
• 2:57
  Cheryl: What is there inside that invisible backpack?
• 3:00
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 3:01
  Christie: Yeah, that's so great.
• 3:02
  Christie: That is a great just picture of, of a way to think of something- Take something that's Yeah intangible and imagine, like you said, the, the emotions, the circumstances, the things that our child is collecting- Yeah throughout the day before they come back home.
• 3:21
  Joanne: Yeah,'cause so many times we just don't, the kid that we dropped off at school is, you know, maybe not the same when we picked them up.
• 3:28
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 3:29
  Joanne: And we don't know understand why.
• 3:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:31
  Christie: I think about, you know, my own school days.
• 3:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 3:34
  Christie: And remembering that feeling of, you know, you get in the car, you come home, or you get off the bus or whatever, and, and you've lived a whole life- Yeah that-
• 3:43
  Joanne: Yeah
• 3:44
  Christie: very easily no adult in your life could know about-
• 3:47
  Cheryl: True
• 3:48
  Christie (2): if, if you didn't share it.
• 3:50
  Christie (2): What
• 3:51
  Cheryl: about you, Joanne?
• 3:51
  Cheryl: What, what were your experiences?
• 3:53
  Joanne: So growing up- Yeah, yeah you
• 3:54
  Cheryl: mean
• 3:55
  Joanne: me personally?
• 3:56
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 3:57
  Joanne: Well, definitely.
• 3:58
  Joanne: But I felt like, I, I don't know, if I'm being completely honest, I just, I feel like I would come home with, I guess, you know, that invisible backpack- Mm of all my experiences and feelings and emotions.
• 4:10
  Joanne: And, while my parents were really great about creating, a safe and peaceful environment, I don't know that anyone really, asked me or- Yeah or cared about...
• 4:19
  Joanne: It's not that they didn't care, but- I know, like, the
• 4:20
  Christie: Gen X-er thing in us, right?
• 4:22
  Christie: Yeah.
• 4:22
  Christie: Yeah, that's it.
• 4:22
  Christie: I mean, it wasn't really the cultural norm- Right of parenting when we were growing
• 4:26
  Joanne: up.
• 4:26
  Joanne: Yeah, it just wasn't a place.
• 4:28
  Joanne: I didn't even think to unpack my invisible backpack.
• 4:31
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 4:32
  Cheryl: As you're saying that, I'm thinking about myself, the same thing.
• 4:34
  Cheryl: I was blessed with a safe home.
• 4:36
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 4:37
  Cheryl: And my parents loved me.
• 4:38
  Cheryl: I mean, my,"Oh, did you have a good day?" Right.
• 4:41
  Cheryl: Or maybe- Right"How did that test go?" But there was no unpacking all the junk- Right that I had loaded into that backpack all day long, and I didn't even know it.
• 4:54
  Christie: Right.
• 4:55
  Cheryl: I mean, I still today am unpacking some of that invisible backpack from my childhood.
• 5:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:03
  Cheryl: And- Because no one thought to deal with it when we were little.
• 5:06
  Christie: Right.
• 5:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:07
  Christie: And kids don't always know how to answer your question- Mm-hmm or how to put words to what- Yeah their experiences have been.
• 5:17
  Christie: I'm remembering a time that my mom and dad picked me up from soccer, and I saw their car, and I was running to their car, and a little boy on my team yelled my name, so I stopped.
• 5:28
  Christie: And he came up, and he whispered, we're five years old, he whispers in my ear,"I love you."
• 5:33
  x: Oh, wow.
• 5:35
  x: Wow,
• 5:35
  Christie: I mean, I can see my parents in the car- and then I can see the soccer field I'm running from, and that little split second was really weighty, you know?
• 5:43
  x: Yeah.
• 5:43
  Christie: Wow.
• 5:43
  Christie: And I climb in the car, and, and my parents asked me what he said to me- Yeah'cause they could see what had happened.
• 5:49
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:49
  Christie: But I, I was embarrassed.
• 5:51
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:51
  Christie: I didn't know what to say.
• 5:52
  Christie: I didn't know what that meant.
• 5:53
  Christie: A little shocked.
• 5:53
  Christie: I'm five years old.
• 5:54
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:55
  Christie: And so, yeah- Wow I just think about that and, and think about how kids don't always know, like- Mm-hmm what should I do with this thing that happened today?
• 6:03
  Christie: And it doesn't have to be something bad or traumatic- Yeah but just an emotion, you know?
• 6:06
  Christie: With
• 6:07
  Joanne: the same,
• 6:07
  Cheryl: yeah.
• 6:07
  Cheryl: And you don't have to be five years old.
• 6:08
  Christie: Right.
• 6:09
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 6:09
  Cheryl: I think that backpack gets really heavy in the teen years.
• 6:13
  Christie: Mm.
• 6:13
  Joanne: Right.
• 6:14
  Cheryl: You know?
• 6:14
  Cheryl: That's
• 6:14
  Joanne: true.
• 6:15
  Cheryl: Uh,'cause again, my parents would ask about the visible things, the things that everybody knew about.
• 6:21
  Cheryl: If you have a test or maybe trying out for cheerleading or whatever it is, and they would ask about that, but all the other interactions and what this person said, or they passed a note to me or-
• 6:37
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 6:37
  Cheryl: you know, didn't say,"I love you." Whatever it is- that just went into that backpack and-
• 6:44
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 6:44
  Cheryl: Yeah maybe with your friends, you might open up a little bit, but they were unskilled.
• 6:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 6:51
  Cheryl: They were ignorant, um, teenagers too.
• 6:53
  Cheryl: It's true.
• 6:54
  Cheryl: Didn't know to say,"Wow, how did you feel about that?" Mm-hmm.
• 6:58
  Cheryl: I think- You know?
• 6:58
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 6:59
  Cheryl: There was no one working on that invisible backpack my whole childhood.
• 7:04
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:04
  Joanne: No, yeah.
• 7:05
  Joanne: I do remember getting a lot of, like, yes or no questions.
• 7:08
  Joanne: Yeah,
• 7:08
  Cheryl: uh-huh.
• 7:08
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 7:08
  Joanne: You know, so I, I think that they were trying.
• 7:11
  Joanne: They would say, like,"Oh, did you have a good day?""Yes." Yes.
• 7:13
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 7:14
  Joanne: "Do you have any homework?""No." You know?
• 7:16
  Christie: Right.
• 7:17
  Joanne: So maybe it wasn't really their fault.
• 7:19
  Joanne: They were trying, but it just- But- wasn't a good question.
• 7:22
  Christie: Right.
• 7:23
  Cheryl: But what about in your parenting?
• 7:24
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 7:24
  Cheryl: In your active parenting years, or even now, f- did you know to deal with the invisible backpack?
• 7:31
  Christie: Well, I think I learned, kind of like you're saying, real fast that the yes and no questions- Yeah weren't gonna get me far.
• 7:38
  Christie: Yeah.
• 7:38
  Christie: I knew enough to know that I wanted connection with my girls and their hearts.
• 7:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 7:42
  Christie: And so when I would ask those questions that weren't- really opening them up, um, I did start a- you know, asking and reading and looking into what can I do- Mm.
• 7:54
  Christie: Ooh because it's a little hard to draw out, you know, other than,"Fine.
• 7:58
  Christie: Good." Yeah.
• 7:58
  Christie: You know?
• 7:59
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 8:00
  Joanne: Yeah,.
• 8:01
  Joanne: That was always something that was really important to me is having that connection with my kids, and I also wanted them to feel like they could come to me- Yeah and talk t- to me about anything.
• 8:10
  Joanne: Um, so I would say, one of the things I just try to do is just, be available-
• 8:15
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 8:16
  Joanne: as much as I could, depending on, like, how busy we were, but even if it's just for a little bit, just have a time ava- availability of, having some time with them.
• 8:25
  Joanne: And as much as possible to not have a really stressful, chaotic environment- Mm.
• 8:30
  Joanne: When they- Yeah got home from wherever so that, that was just a little more relaxed and easier- Mm for them to open up.
• 8:36
  Christie: Yeah.
• 8:37
  Christie: I think that availability word is really key, especially as you get into maybe fourth, fif- fifth, sixth grade and on.
• 8:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:45
  Joanne: Yes.
• 8:46
  Christie: Because they, they do, kind of like I was saying earlier, they do need some time to decompress from their day- Yeah or their activity, and then start to try to put words to what they wanna say.
• 8:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 8:59
  Christie: Mm.
• 8:59
  Christie: And I feel like the older they get, the longer that takes.
• 9:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:03
  Christie: The, or the, or the later they wanna talk.
• 9:05
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 9:05
  Christie: Sure.
• 9:06
  Christie: They just need to get out the facts of the day and sort through the initial, you know- Yeah workings of, get a snack, and, you know, unwind, and then that's when you really start.
• 9:16
  Christie: And so if I think,"Oh, well, they said the day was good," you know- Yeah.
• 9:19
  Christie: Yeah and I go on and fold some laundry, then I'm not available.
• 9:23
  Christie: And the other thing I'm thinking as we're talking is you're saying, like, creating as much as you can a little bit more peace in that moment.
• 9:29
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 9:29
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 9:30
  Christie: We ourselves come into that time together- Oh, yeah with an invisible backpack.
• 9:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 9:35
  Christie: Whether you've been at work- Uh-huh or even working in the home, you have stresses and things and so I'm thinking, gosh, we kinda need to do our own work of either pressing into the evening and knowing-
• 9:48
  Joanne: Uh-huh
• 9:49
  Christie: that nighttime bath is coming, I'll decompress then.
• 9:52
  Christie: You know, not trying to just unwind.
• 9:53
  Christie: 'Cause I think it's tempting- Right too, to be like,"We're all home for the night.
• 9:57
  Christie: Let's all take our big sigh of relief now." Yeah.
• 10:00
  Christie: Well, we've gotta have that time with them- Mm to be available to them- Mm-hmm
• 10:05
  Cheryl: yes what you're saying- It's great is so good.
• 10:07
  Cheryl: So first I wanna respond like what you're saying, Christie.
• 10:11
  Cheryl: I have a really good long-term friend, and she had a practice that I wish I had had,
• 10:17
  Christie: mm-hmm.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: Um, it was when her husband got home at night, and she had a big family, and everybody was doing all this, and all the chaos that comes with evenings, but she and her husband would go to their bedroom and stay in the bedroom 15 minutes every night just being together, reconnecting, just decompressing with one another.
• 10:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: Just, that connecting again in case there's anything they need to talk about.
• 10:45
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:46
  Cheryl: But just building into their relationship.
• 10:49
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:49
  Cheryl: And, and sighs of relief and ready, and then to go out and start working with the kids.
• 10:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 10:55
  Cheryl: They were so much more equipped.
• 10:56
  Cheryl: I think it was really helpful for their marriage.
• 10:59
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:59
  Cheryl: But I think they were better equipped to go back out.
• 11:02
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 11:03
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: And then deal with everything and everybody and all the invisible backpacks.
• 11:07
  Christie: Right.
• 11:08
  Cheryl: And then also back to what you were saying, I love Mm-hmm this idea availability, um, because I, I think my parents thought, and the tendency is to think is the goal is information.
• 11:25
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 11:25
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: You know?
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Right.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Did you pass the test?
• 11:28
  Cheryl: Did you have a good day?
• 11:29
  Cheryl: That's all information.
• 11:31
  Cheryl: And instead what we need is connection.
• 11:33
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Cheryl: And I would also say, like in with any good conversation when I'm doing that, I need to be very present- Mm-hmm.
• 11:43
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 11:44
  Cheryl: with this child, with this conversation, and then not seek information, but then to have empathy, connecting- And not use it for a teachable moment.
• 11:56
  Christie: Yes.
• 11:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 11:58
  Christie: That is me.
• 11:59
  Cheryl: There's one of my big mistakes is trying...
• 12:02
  Cheryl: Of course, I wanted to alleviate suffering that was there, but then to use it as a teachable moment.
• 12:08
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 12:08
  Joanne: Right.
• 12:08
  Joanne: Boy, have I done that,
• 12:10
  Christie: um- Oh my goodness.
• 12:11
  Christie: Yeah.
• 12:12
  Cheryl: Ugh.
• 12:12
  Christie: And sometimes, I, it doesn't even have to be my words, it's I've gotta fix my face.
• 12:19
  Christie: Yeah, sometimes they would say things about the day and, you know, tell me,"Oh, yeah, I was talking to so-and-so," and maybe I don't like so-and-so very much- Mm-hmm or their influence in their life, and- They knew my face has to not communicate that.
• 12:33
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Joanne: Oh, and I have actually, I have shut down conversations so quick because I've- Oh gone in with some instruction, maybe, maybe not my face even, but just like,"Okay, well," you know, or trying to correct something- Yes maybe I didn't agree with what they said.
• 12:47
  Joanne: Uh-huh.
• 12:47
  Joanne: And I've been told, like,"Well, I just-" This is why I don't ever tell you anything.
• 12:51
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Joanne: Yeah, they've- Exactly.
• 12:53
  Joanne: So learn from my mistakes.
• 12:54
  Joanne: Yes.
• 12:55
  Joanne: Don't, don't do that.
• 12:56
  Cheryl: Same.
• 12:56
  Cheryl: And see, the little ones don't know to say,"Oh, that's why I don't tell you." Right.
• 12:59
  Joanne: Right.
• 12:59
  Cheryl: And if you're truly lucky, you'll have an older one say it to you.
• 13:04
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 13:05
  Cheryl: And then learn it.
• 13:05
  Cheryl: I mean, I kind of had a grown, grown child kind of say that to me recently.
• 13:11
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 13:12
  Cheryl: And I thought,"Oh, I have to remember not to go there."
• 13:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 13:16
  Cheryl: You know?
• 13:16
  Joanne: Right.
• 13:17
  Cheryl: I'm fired from the job of training and raising and- Yeah teaching.
• 13:21
  Christie: Right.
• 13:22
  Cheryl: And I am a natural-born teacher.
• 13:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:24
  Cheryl: I see ways of teaching and,"Oh, look, what a good opportunity to talk about character," and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 13:30
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:30
  Cheryl: Right.
• 13:31
  Cheryl: And The backpack stays closed-
• 13:33
  Christie: Right
• 13:33
  Cheryl: if I'm, that- Mm-hmm.
• 13:35
  Cheryl: Stop the time I think that's one of the biggest killers, is teachable moments.
• 13:38
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 13:38
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 13:39
  Joanne: Well, and then, like, Cheryl, you've, you've taught me this, the power of apology.
• 13:42
  Joanne: Like, you gotta just say,"I, I'm sorry." Mm.
• 13:44
  Joanne: Continue.
• 13:45
  Joanne: Tell me...
• 13:46
  Joanne: 'Cause you do want them to stay open and, and, just talking about the availability, you know, it's- it's hard.
• 13:51
  Joanne: We get so tired.
• 13:52
  Christie: Yeah.
• 13:53
  Joanne: And especially when you've got more than one kid, and- Mm there's just not enough hours in the day.
• 13:58
  Joanne: But just, you know, today I was even reminded of how important it is just to be available.
• 14:03
  Joanne: I picked up one of my, my kids from camp.
• 14:07
  Joanne: We, he was there for a week.
• 14:08
  Joanne: Um, and he could've gotten a ride home, so he, he got a ride out there with someone, but he asked if, if I would- Oh, that's cool be willing to- Wow to pick him up.
• 14:16
  Joanne: It's two hours away.
• 14:18
  Joanne: Um- Wow.
• 14:19
  Joanne: A- initially, I was like,"Oh, well, well, yeah, but you can get a ride." But then I remembered last year how cool it was when I picked him up, and he just opened up about everything.
• 14:32
  Joanne: Wow.
• 14:32
  Joanne: And he's not normally like that.
• 14:34
  Joanne: That's the best thing.
• 14:34
  Joanne: So this time when he asked me, I was like,"Yeah, absolutely." Mm-hmm.
• 14:38
  Joanne: I told you he's gonna be a junior.
• 14:39
  Joanne: I'm like,"100% I will be there to pick you up." Yeah.
• 14:41
  Joanne: And it took me you know, half my day, but I'm so glad because I heard every single detail of that week,?
• 14:48
  Cheryl: Well, see, my grown kids don't ever say,"Would you please take me to work and come pick me up?" Right.
• 14:52
  Cheryl: "And let me process life with you?"
• 14:54
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: What an opportunity.
• 14:56
  Cheryl: And-
• 14:56
  Joanne: So
• 14:57
  Cheryl: take it like in a window.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:59
  Cheryl: Use this window- Mm-hmm to develop it, just listening is one of the best gifts we can have.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: Now, one of the best ways to invest in opening up that invisible backpack.
• 15:09
  Cheryl: A- but again, I, I wanna say, but you see we're very present.
• 15:14
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:15
  Cheryl: You weren't scrolling on your phone or talking about- Right"Oh my, I'm gonna go record on the- Mm-hmm podcast." You were really focused.
• 15:24
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 15:25
  Cheryl: Wow, how amazing is that?
• 15:27
  Cheryl: And then that teachable moment, we have all of that that may be at the appropriate time, some other time, circle back and say,"You know, I was thinking about what you were saying, and I was wondering," and then ask good questions about it.
• 15:42
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:42
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:43
  Christie: Yeah, I think, you know, there's all, like we were saying, getting all the, the information and the details of their day or their friend groups or what's going on in their lives.
• 15:54
  Christie: Um, but I think you said a minute ago, Cheryl, we really want more than that.
• 15:58
  Joanne: Yes.
• 15:59
  Christie: You know?
• 15:59
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 15:59
  Christie: I, I think the things I, I like to hear from my girls is,"Well, how'd, how'd you feel about that?" Or,"What was hard today?" Or,"What was scary about that?" And-
• 16:09
  Joanne: Very good.
• 16:09
  Joanne: Ooh,
• 16:09
  Christie: I like that and really get into those questions, I, I think that tells you more about who they are- Mm-hmm rather than...
• 16:16
  Christie: Now, don't get me wrong, I want the tea on, you know- Right.
• 16:19
  Christie: what Sansa's doing- and I w- I wanna know who I should have my radar up about.
• 16:22
  Christie: But, um, I think those kinds of questions really help our kids to feel seen too, not just us- Right wanting to collect information.
• 16:31
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 16:32
  Christie: Because they are very aware that I want to know, you know, all the facts.
• 16:37
  Christie: The
• 16:37
  Joanne: details.
• 16:37
  Christie: Yes.
• 16:38
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 16:39
  Christie: But, um, they really just want me to know them, you know?
• 16:42
  Christie: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Christie: They wanna feel known, and I think if I can get over my own selfishness and, and just listen to those parts of them as individuals.
• 16:51
  Cheryl: That's listening and- Yeah asking good questions.
• 16:53
  Cheryl: What are some more good questions?
• 16:55
  Cheryl: Because that's what I would've been asking this episode if I were still in my active parenting years.
• 17:02
  Cheryl: What are good questions?
• 17:03
  Cheryl: You said something like scary.
• 17:04
  Cheryl: Anything scary?
• 17:06
  Cheryl: One of the questions I heard, I thought it was so good,"Was there anything that surprised you today?"
• 17:11
  Joanne: Mm, I love that.
• 17:12
  Joanne: Yeah, that's really good.
• 17:13
  Cheryl: I mean, look, that says,"My agenda is you-
• 17:17
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 17:17
  Cheryl: and I care about you.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: I'm not trying to get the tea on anybody."
• 17:21
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:21
  Cheryl: I'm really listening." Yeah.
• 17:23
  Cheryl: And, I think it's a probing question without looking like you're digging.
• 17:27
  Joanne: Right.
• 17:28
  Cheryl: It's like I really care.
• 17:30
  Cheryl: Uh, can y'all think of some more good questions that we could put into the backpacks of our parents that are listening for them to have, accessible?
• 17:40
  Joanne: Yeah, gosh, I wish...
• 17:41
  Joanne: I, I would say just something I just say is, like, you know, the tell, you tell me about your day instead of me going in with specifics.
• 17:48
  Joanne: Mm., I want the details.
• 17:49
  Joanne: I want a picture in my head.
• 17:50
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 17:51
  Joanne: So, like, I'm like,"Who is there?" Like, you know,"Tell me about your teacher.
• 17:54
  Joanne: What did she look..." You know, and those things I d- have annoyed my kids.
• 17:58
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 17:58
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 17:58
  Cheryl: They're
• 17:59
  Joanne: like,"Mom, you don't need to know all those details." So yeah, just kinda throwing it into their court and being like, Doing good follow-up.
• 18:05
  Joanne: "Tell me more about that thing that you were telling me." Yeah.
• 18:08
  Joanne: And k- kind of following their lead, too, and just reading- Yeah the room.
• 18:10
  Joanne: Right.
• 18:10
  Joanne: If they're really tired, I'm not gonna, go in with extra questions.
• 18:15
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 18:15
  Joanne: And kinda just let them lead.
• 18:16
  Christie: I think that you said, um, follow-up questions.
• 18:20
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Christie: I think that's really powerful, too.
• 18:22
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:22
  Christie: To go, you know, if you can remember what they told you yesterday-
• 18:25
  x: Yes
• 18:26
  Christie: and then ask- Mm-hmm follow-up questions about that, um, is, is really meaningful to my girls, anyway.
• 18:32
  Christie: I've noticed that- For sure they're like,"Oh, gosh, thanks for asking."
• 18:35
  Cheryl: Because-
• 18:36
  Christie: And then I'll get more insight that
• 18:36
  Cheryl: doesn't just say, our conversation right here, and then it's done.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: It's saying, what you said, I value it so much- Mm-hmm and I value you so much-
• 18:45
  Christie: Mm-hmm
• 18:45
  Cheryl: that I'm following up to find out-
• 18:47
  Christie: Yeah
• 18:47
  Cheryl: what happened.
• 18:48
  Cheryl: Another good question, y'all, was anything today harder than you thought it would be?
• 18:52
  Christie: Hmm.
• 18:53
  Christie: That's good.
• 18:54
  Christie: That's
• 18:54
  Joanne: a really good
• 18:54
  Cheryl: question.
• 18:55
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:55
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: You know, I just didn't have this in my arsenal.
• 18:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:59
  Joanne: No.
• 19:00
  Joanne: I
• 19:00
  Christie: think- Yeah, I'm remembering one thing that my grandmother did really well, and it meant so much to me that I've, I've continued that with my kids.
• 19:08
  Christie: But she was always, what it seemed to me, genuine, very interested in the lives of my friends.
• 19:16
  Christie: Oh, yeah.
• 19:16
  Christie: Wow.
• 19:16
  Cheryl: So how's Nancy doing?
• 19:17
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:17
  Christie: How's she doing?
• 19:17
  Christie: And doesn't, isn't her sister, you know, playing- Wow ball now, or...
• 19:22
  Christie: And so that's something it always made me feel like if she cared about my friends, then- Mm-hmm she cared about me, too, and, and the people in my life.
• 19:30
  Christie: And, um, so I think sometimes that was meaningful to my girls.
• 19:35
  Christie: I, I, I think it was.
• 19:37
  Christie: Like, they have not told me that, but it, it was to me.
• 19:39
  Christie: Of course.
• 19:39
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Cheryl: Of course, because- That age-
• 19:42
  Christie: Yeah
• 19:43
  Cheryl: other- Friends are everything your friends is everything.
• 19:46
  Christie: Yeah.
• 19:46
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 19:46
  Cheryl: And usually they have to defend their friends- Mm-hmm to a lot of adults.
• 19:50
  Christie: Yes.
• 19:51
  Christie: True.
• 19:51
  Cheryl: And in this case, they're going,"Oh, you care about him too?
• 19:55
  Cheryl: Let me tell you."
• 19:56
  Christie: Mm.
• 19:56
  Cheryl: Yeah., Uh, one of the things, it was sort of what you're saying about with your son, that these kind of conversations kinda, it's nice if maybe other things are going on,'cause you can do it when you're folding laundry or...
• 20:12
  Cheryl: I will tell you by far some of the most productive conversations I had, particularly with my sons, was they're sitting at the kitchen counter while I'm fixing dinner.
• 20:23
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:24
  Cheryl: And so my back is to them, and I'm chopping and I'm turning, I'm stirring, I'm doing.
• 20:28
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:29
  Cheryl: And they are just gabbing away.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 20:30
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: Just gab, gab.
• 20:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:32
  Cheryl: And then I throw in a, what they did?
• 20:34
  Cheryl: What else?" Yeah.
• 20:34
  Cheryl: And they just talked and talked and unpacked so much to me while I was doing something else.
• 20:41
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:41
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:42
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 20:42
  Christie: May be just being a student of your kids,
• 20:44
  Cheryl: for sure.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: And I would say particularly if they are a quality time person-
• 20:47
  Christie: Uh-huh.
• 20:48
  Joanne: Yeah
• 20:49
  Cheryl: uh, turning your back away from them, they go,"Oh, you don't want to hear." You're
• 20:53
  Christie: right.
• 20:53
  Cheryl: So you're right- Yeah, So what else?
• 20:55
  Cheryl: We've got to wrap this up.
• 20:57
  Cheryl: Um- Can you think of anything else that you would bring to this discussion?
• 21:00
  Joanne: Well, yeah, Christie kind of mentioned, you mentioned, uh, having a little snack.
• 21:05
  Joanne: I have found, especially with, like, my teen boys-
• 21:08
  Cheryl: Oh
• 21:08
  Joanne: like, we would be driving in the car, and, you know, we live in Oklahoma, there's a Sonic on every corner- Oh and, and I like to eat healthy, but every once in a while you get them a little Sonic drink- Yeah or whatever their favorite snack is, and the floodgates just open up.
• 21:23
  Joanne: Nice.
• 21:23
  Joanne: And it's like it helps them let their guard down, something about having their favorite drink or treat in front of them.
• 21:29
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 21:30
  Joanne: So if you can, unless it's too close to dinner time, having-
• 21:33
  Christie: Right
• 21:33
  Joanne: their special little snack waiting for them, um, or, like, if you're in between, you know, en route to practice or whatever-
• 21:40
  Christie: Yeah
• 21:41
  Joanne: there is something to that I have found with my kids- Wow where they really open up-
• 21:45
  Christie: Right
• 21:46
  Joanne: with that.
• 21:46
  Christie: Well, and also just, I mean, I'm talking really practically here, there's also the side of it of don't talk to a hangry- Yes teenager.
• 21:55
  Christie: Yeah, that's so true.
• 21:55
  Christie: Don't try to expect them to get you any kind of good conversation going when they're- They need food Yeah, when they're hungry.
• 22:02
  Christie: Yeah.
• 22:03
  Cheryl: Okay, I will say for me, and, uh, I had to build in the margin for this, and this was mostly in my widowed parenting years, and then as my kids, particularly as they aged through the teens, um, the golden time was bedtime.
• 22:21
  x: Mm.
• 22:21
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 22:22
  Cheryl: This is when they're not older teens that can stay up to whenever they want to, but maybe a little bit younger, particularly you mentioned kind of the, the middle school to early middle teens, and they have a bedtime.
• 22:35
  Cheryl: They're going to bed, and- I had to plan and curate my evenings to have time to go to each bed and sit on the beds.
• 22:47
  Cheryl: And so the light would be off, they'd be lying in bed, and this was, in the day before phones and devices were so popular.
• 22:56
  x: Mm-hmm.
• 22:56
  Cheryl: And I would just- Mm-hmm
• 22:58
  Cheryl A: sit there quietly, and my children would gab, gab, Or sometimes I would lie down in bed just next to them and just-
• 23:07
  Christie: Aw
• 23:07
  Cheryl: not saying anything, and they would just talk my ears off.
• 23:10
  Christie: Mm, I love that.
• 23:11
  Cheryl: Uh- That's
• 23:12
  Christie: so
• 23:13
  Cheryl: sweet but I will say, I had to store up energy-
• 23:16
  Christie: Yeah
• 23:16
  Cheryl: so that I had that to give.
• 23:18
  Cheryl: And then one of the most wonderful gifts that I really needed energy for is the older ones, like end of teens, college age.
• 23:28
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:29
  Cheryl: They don't come home till later.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Cheryl: Or there's something about maybe the oil in their jaw muscle or something- gets going about 10:30, 11:00 at night.
• 23:40
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: And I can remember being just fried.
• 23:43
  Cheryl: I'm in bed.
• 23:44
  Cheryl: Uh-huh.
• 23:44
  Cheryl: I'm ready to go to bed.
• 23:46
  Joanne: Mm.
• 23:46
  Cheryl: And then my 19-year-old son comes in from studying and so forth, flops across the end of my bed, and just starts talking.
• 23:54
  Christie: Wow.
• 23:55
  Cheryl: Well, talk about golden time.
• 23:57
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:57
  Christie: Yeah.
• 23:58
  Cheryl: I'm gonna not ever sleep again if I have to.
• 24:00
  Christie: Right.
• 24:01
  Christie: Yeah.
• 24:01
  Cheryl: So I'm just trying to encourage you parents, look for times,'cause you just mentioned you have to be ready.
• 24:08
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 24:08
  Cheryl: I have to have the margin-
• 24:10
  Joanne: Mm-hmm
• 24:10
  Cheryl: and the availability to be available when they're ready to unpack a little bit.
• 24:15
  Joanne: Right.
• 24:16
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 24:16
  Joanne: So true
• 24:16
  Cheryl: 'cause- Way past all those years, I tell you, that's a gold Knox value to me-
• 24:23
  Joanne: Mm.
• 24:23
  Joanne: Yeah
• 24:24
  Cheryl: that we had these conversations, and they weren't even conversations.
• 24:27
  Cheryl: Would you call them listens?
• 24:29
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 24:30
  Joanne: Monologues.
• 24:30
  Joanne: They do open up.
• 24:31
  Joanne: That's so true, but, you know, what you've just reminded me of is that's such a short period of time.
• 24:36
  Joanne: Like, if you think back to when they were newborns- Yeah and you are so exhausted, and then looking back, I'm like,"That was just a blink of the eye- Right and it's over," and it's the same when they're...
• 24:46
  Joanne: Well, so all that time you've invested is paying off now- Yeah even though you were so- Mm-hmm exhausted and you had to sacrifice a lot- Yes being a single mom, and you didn't have that extra ener- You didn't really have margin.
• 24:58
  Joanne: No.
• 24:59
  Christie: Right.
• 24:59
  Joanne: So- I couldn't spell it.
• 25:00
  Joanne: Right, but it was such...
• 25:02
  Joanne: It's an investment, right?
• 25:03
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 25:03
  Joanne: It was.
• 25:03
  Joanne: And you're reaping that return now.
• 25:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 25:07
  Joanne: So it's so worth it.
• 25:09
  Christie: I love that you compare it to when they were newborns because I feel like I see a lot of times that, and I experience this myself, that as our kids reach those older, more self-sufficient- Yeah I'm doing air quotes- Yeah.
• 25:21
  Christie: self-sufficient years, that we as parents can get a little lazy, and now I'm not saying we're not tired- Mm.
• 25:30
  Christie: Mm and that it's not taking all of our energy, but you're right.
• 25:33
  Christie: When they were newborns, we got up through the night.
• 25:35
  Christie: We f- you know- Mm did the night feedings.
• 25:37
  Christie: We did what they needed, and now that they're 16, 17, 18 plus years old, this is what they need from us, and it may require a little sacrifice of sleep or- Mm-hmm energy at an inconvenient time, but it's still meeting a need of our child.
• 25:54
  Christie: Yeah
• 25:55
  Cheryl: I would endorse that with exclamation marks.
• 25:58
  Christie: Mm.
• 25:59
  Cheryl: Cause I
• 25:59
  Cheryl A: could kind of Make the argument somebody else could feed a baby in the night.
• 26:05
  Christie: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Christie: True.
• 26:06
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Cheryl: But no one can sit and invest that listen, I've created a new w- word here, okay?
• 26:14
  Cheryl: That listen- Huh.
• 26:15
  Cheryl: the way a parent can.
• 26:16
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 26:17
  Joanne: Yeah, that's right.
• 26:17
  Cheryl: That's my biggest role is that relational bridge and being available for my child to feel so safe to walk across.
• 26:26
  Joanne: Right.
• 26:26
  Cheryl: And that's what I want.
• 26:27
  Cheryl: Now, getting up in the night when they're little, that's necessary, but this is, like you say- Yeah this reaps a harvest.
• 26:35
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 26:36
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:36
  Joanne: It does.
• 26:37
  Joanne: Uh,
• 26:37
  Cheryl: we can't be picky about what the fruit is
• 26:39
  Cheryl A: or if or when We see it, but I want to invest in that.
• 26:43
  Cheryl A: That's what I care about.
• 26:44
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 26:45
  Joanne: Mm-hmm.
• 26:45
  Cheryl: Wow, this is great.
• 26:47
  Cheryl: Parents, I hope this kind of helped you, think about our invisible backpacks that we have in all of our lives and, uh, maybe get your bandwidth so you can be doing some backpack work in your homes.
• 27:01
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 27:02
  Cheryl: So thank you all so much for coming in.
• 27:04
  Joanne: Yeah.
• 27:04
  Joanne: Thanks for having me.
• 27:05
  Cheryl: And parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering, because it's worth it
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Maybe the invitation here is simply to notice.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: Not every backpack will be opened when we're ready.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Not everything inside will be ready when we are.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: But there are these little windows, a car ride, a snack at the counter, the edge of a bed late at night, when our children let us in We can't make those moments happen.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: We can make room for them.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And sometimes the most important thing we can give our children is the feeling that whatever they're carrying, they don't have to carry it alone.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear from you.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: You can find us on social media or write to us at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being here with us.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: We'll keep the conversation going next time