Latest / The Marketing Brief / Morgan and Brian Chat About the Current Creator Economy and the power of Influencers (S1 E25)
Transcript
- Brian Aucoin: Hello and welcome back into the marketing brief podcast I am your host Brian equan and this is the podcast where we briefly touch on aspects across the marketing landscape always we're joined with an industry expert today. We're very excited to be joined by Morgan Barclay Morgan. Welcome Morgan Barclay: Hi, hi Brian. Nice see you again. And thank you for having me on the show. I appreciate it. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. That's great to have you. Would you like to introduce yourself and kind of what you do? Morgan Barclay: Yeah, so I ⁓ started in digital media ⁓ many years too many years ago. And kind of started in kind of. media meets tech world back in the day. And I have found myself squarely in the influencer marketing space or now what we call the creator economy and work with big brands to help them launch their next big IP product service, what have you. And that's squarely where I sit today. So I work in kind of strategy meets partnerships and working directly with brands to help them out and solve their marketing puzzles, which I feel like it's a good fit for this show. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we're excited to have you. We're both digital dinosaurs, guess, having been around and seen some trends come and go. I guess maybe let's start with the creative economy. What are you seeing lately that's kind of like been a trend or something that you've seen kind of change? Morgan Barclay: Yeah, I think the big trend that we're seeing with our partners is that, you know, one of two things, right? It was like, how do you create a cultural moment that might integrate a brand, you know, and manufacture that? Or how do you amplify and build around a cultural moment that's happening with influencers? A big part of that, right? And I mean, you were chatting a little bit for this around like what Kraft just did with the NFL draft where they were doing this cool, stunty thing. Hey, we're going to do we're going to align with whoever gets picked 57th in the draft. Call Mr. 57. We want to tap into creators to kind of help tell that story. And we did exactly that. So we worked with Isaac Rochelle that he did this kind of really fun, lighthearted piece where he was predicting who might go number 57. So we put that content out before the NFL draft last week. And then on top of that, we also paired that with showing all the kind of in the real world Heinz activations they had going because they're a big partner with the NFL now. And so we hired local foodies in Pittsburgh to go out to mom and pop shop restaurants and show Heinz front of house and show, you know, almost become like little guides for people that are going to Pittsburgh or visiting Pittsburgh and show them the best places. to eat and you know compliment your hot dog or burger with Heinz of course. That was like a really cool activation. again, when I'm talking about cultural moment, like again, maybe within a community. is, does everyone care about the NFL draft? No. Is there, is, is it one of the biggest sports in the world or at least in the U S? So, you know, NFL fandoms massive. And so if you can tap into that audience and pair it with food and sports culture, it's a win. And like, those are the types of ⁓ cool, stunty things that Kraft Heinz challenges us with, or they put forth and then we align with. those and make it a fully integrated program with creators at the forefront of it. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, man, the draft, I've been to the draft. It's crazy how big the NFL is and how everything, anything the NFL does is worthy, I guess. ⁓ was in Mammoth, was sitting at the bar ⁓ a couple of guys came in and they're like, hey, can you put the draft on? And it's like, ⁓ is literally a show where they read a name like every five minutes, right? ⁓ it's huge. ⁓ Morgan Barclay: Right. Well, it is. And you know what's crazy about that, too? And I had this experience that happened to be up in Napa Valley when the second day of the draft was happening. Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Morgan Barclay: at this thing called Streamfest and I just went to, you know, stop by a bar, I was kind of wrapping up and I was like sitting there and the draft was on and the bartender was clearly a Raiders fan and he was really into it. So it was like on the NFL network and I was like, oh, I was surprised that you have this on and I'm a Seahawks fan. So I was like, oh, this is cool. We have the draft on. But what I ended up doing though, since I was kind of eating by myself at the bar, I was like. I had my kind of core local YouTube guys, which I call them like my Seahawks digital friends, right? Like, I don't know these guys, but I watched their podcasts. And so I had like AirPods in and I'm actually having them do the live take, but from a hometown view through my phone on a YouTube podcast. And so like the irony is like, I don't care about what the national media is saying, right? About the players. Cause like, I just want, you know, Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Morgan Barclay: to listen to these guys who I follow all the time and hear their voices and their take on like, all right, who are we going to take at 64? Are we going to move back? Like, I don't really need to see who the Ravens are going to pick at 62. You know, like I don't care. but I do think what's interesting about the reason I bring that up is because it's how things happen in culture and how they're real time. What I've noticed is like all the radio stations now and even like the big time, you know, the people that are huge at the NFL draft, like a Mel Kuyper or the Colin cowherds, the influencers have basically forced them to be available and report live, like even from home, right? On a Friday or Sunday when previously they would just cover it later. Like the influencers are forcing them to be more in tune with what's happening right now because these influencers, like a couple of them literally streamed for like 12 hours. Do the whole draft on a Saturday and then they would just recap everything of like who got picked and it just like how does a you know, an old school media radio host like compete with that? You know, so anyway, I don't know if you're experiencing that in another way. Maybe it's hot sauce, which we talked about or something else. Brian Aucoin: Wow. Yeah. I do love hot sauce. No, I love that you framed it as cultural moments right before because I think that's something you do need influencers in ⁓ Something like the the draft which is happening live, you know, we don't have tons of live stuff We've got some playoff stuff that's going on but ⁓ conversation is gonna happen in real time, right? So you have to have influencers in place to do that but ⁓ when talk about cultural moments, you'd be hard-pressed to try and create a cultural moment, be part of a cultural moment with a brand where you didn't have influencers attached to it. And I think we're probably seeing now like media plans, you know, you know, there was an option of including influencers before. Now it's pretty much, it's baked in. It's like, okay, and what's your ⁓ tactic? How are you executing through influencers, right? Morgan Barclay: Yeah, you nailed it. Cause like that's at Q where I'm at, right? So, you know, formally and strategy now in partnerships, but we always talk about that at Q with our brand partners that, you know, even five years ago it was experimental, right? So you're working with a big brand, they're testing it out. Okay, we want to try this influencer thing. You could say 10 years ago, which was true. Like some people were really headed the curve, but even when Tik Tok, you know, people were maybe testing Tik Tok, but are testing influencer. Now it's just part of the media mix. It's part of the integrated plan of like, how do you go to market? And if you don't have influencers as part of that, it's like, it's literally saying like, you don't have voices who connect with different audiences and interests and communities behind your program. Because, you know, as you know, right? Like, you know, how people experience commercials now or whether it's streaming TV and CTV or out of home, like we've even done stuff with influencers where like, you know, Like I was saying, even with the NFL draft thing, it's like they're capturing out of home signage because they're walking around and they're showing the event experience. So they're actually amplifying your digital out of home or you're out of home. So the intersection of those two things are colliding because they're human beings and they can go out into the world and film, right? And do storytelling in and around, you know, the story or the message we're trying to deliver for a brand. So it's super cool. And it's also like, you know, it's funny is that can you get this person? Can you do this with this person as a challenge? Like a brand might say that. it's like, I always, you know, this was true with talent back in the day before influencers, right? It's like, okay, can you get, you know, can you get Kevin Hart or can you get Dave Chappelle or as part of this for branded series? It's like, you know, coming from the strategy side is like, we used to joke on the strategy team back in the day, you know, a different company. was like, we'd say, let's just for one time for the sales force, let's just put talent as guaranteed. You know, like we'd have a list of people as a joke, right? Cause like they're never guaranteed cause they're human beings. Same is still true with influencers. Like you don't know what they have going on. ⁓ don't know if they like your brand, love your brand, even know about your brand. You don't know if their format works. And so that's kind of what we help is that we help to put that all together, ⁓ but can never just guarantee a person and nor should you, right? It's just like, Hey, we want to work with so-and-so. Like we want to work with Madison Humphrey. Like, well, okay, she may or may not be available. Like we want to work with, you know, we want to work with Adam Rose. Cool. Like... check their format seems like it aligns. They have something that seems like it would fit in with what we're trying to do. But like that's kind of like the fun of it all. It's like trying to figure that out for brands as like and to your point, some of them are very advanced. Like a lot of our partners are, you know, like the Paramounts of the world, the crafts of the world, like they really are on top of it and therefore you have to be like you have to be even ahead in your own way. Like how do you be a guide? like in a movie, right? Like you don't want to be Brian Aucoin: Right. Morgan Barclay: Luke Skywalker, you want to be like Obi-Wan, like you want to guide them, like act like you've been there, done that, like they're the hero of the story and you you're the guide to help them get through it. Because that's kind of how we approach it, right? It's like without, you know, feeling cocky about it, but at the same time, some of the brands are really advanced in what they're doing. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think, you know, the reason that influencer creator, ⁓ become the creator economy is that peer to peer messaging resonates, right? It works better than any other ad format we have right now. And that's why tick tock Instagram and all of them have kind of built their ad products around that peer to peer messaging because it does come from an authentic place, right? Even though they're being paid, that's that's pretty transparent as well. But They're choosing products, they're choosing services that they use or they feel that they do resonate with or they would use in their own life. But it's coming from an authentic place. And there's another trend we've been talking about in terms of community. It's also creating community, right? Like me as a consumer, what community do I wanna be part of? I'm choosing influencers ⁓ a make-believe community I wanna be part of, maybe it's a community I'm part of, but. It's certainly, making those choices based on who I wanna hang out with, right? Morgan Barclay: Yeah, totally. mean, I think that's true. It's like we call it, you know, the parasocial relationship because, you know, unlike celebrities before, like back in the day, it was like Tom Cruise was Tom Cruise and like there wasn't an accessible way to interact with him unless you had like a celebrity sighting. But now, you know, before an influencer blows up, say it's an Alex Earl, like early on before she's getting big, like she's writing back to comments. So people like, you know, that that feels Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Morgan Barclay: There's a dopamine hit with that. Like, ⁓ my gosh, my favorite influencer. And even if they're small, I'll say this, I don't know if you knew this function in YouTube, but I think it's super fascinating. know, it's within YouTube, you can pay, if you, ⁓ you're watching, right? ⁓ they will, you can pay to have your comment put up ⁓ during a live stream. which is like super funny, right? So if you're like, so you have a live stream chat going and say there's like a thousand people in there and you really want to get this one point across, well, you just pay $5. But like, you know, if you can make it happen organically without pain, you feel even better. Cause you're like, wow, my comment showed up and like my favorite influencer noticed it and said like, I have to, I have to react to that. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. pressure. Morgan Barclay: That's got to feel good. Same would be true if you know someone just leaving a comment on Instagram and you're following Adam Waheed and he wrote you back for whatever reason because you just said something kind of like while they're different that made him respond. happens more with micro influencers, but I do think that's a big part of it was like and that that you know and usually it's around some sort of topic. You know if it's if it's to your point around if the community is horror per se it's because You guys are speaking the same language. Like you like the same thing. And so if, and you might have a deep, smart POV on something that the influencer is talking about. So. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. And that people are looking to connect on those things for sure. Morgan Barclay: And that's probably why, know, and I, you know, I've seen this firsthand, but sometimes it feels like the influencers, if you ever, if you ever had to work with them on a project, like they are so good at making the content and telling the story, you know, with or without a brand. But the irony is, and this is changing a little bit. I think you brought it up before we had to call, which is basically like, more and more like influencers in the moments, like sometimes just having a normal conversation like we're talking right now is more difficult for them than putting out a video that gets five million views. know, so I mentioned like, you know, just hanging out, like being at that, that stream fest event. It's like some of the influencers were fine. It was like easy to chat with them, like chatted with Adam Rose, like super nice guy, knows the business side, know the creative side. He's been in it his whole life in some way, right? Other influencers like you get a, you know, 17 year old, 19 year old that you've hired to promote this movie from Sony and you're on the lot with them and you need them to in front of us, step and repeat. And you say, hey, I just talked to the client and I need you to, can you guys go over here? And then you just get four people looking back at you with a Gen Z stare and literally tell you walk away. And I had that happen to me and I was like, I'm just going to go back. And now I'm just talking to myself. I'm like, I'm just gonna go back and then they just, instead of doing the thing you asked, they're like doing a skit in the bushes by the rainbow. And you're like, what? And then the client's like, what did you tell them? I was like, I told them what we wanted them to do and now they're doing a skit. So we'll. Brian Aucoin: Right. Some of that's gotta be life experience, but then also like they've only lived in a transactional world, right? Morgan Barclay: Right, could all, their argument could be like, look, this is gonna be better for your movie than whatever you wanted us to do over there. And like. Brian Aucoin: I know my audience, yep. Morgan Barclay: Yeah, maybe they're processing that as a like to me. I'm like, I you're just staring at me. So I'm going to walk away because it's uncomfortable. But like, you know, you do your thing, you know, of course, you know, at some point and that, you know, that was four or five years ago. It's getting more advanced, like those same creators that might have had that moment. They're now sort of 17 or 18. They're now running their own media company if they have millions of followers and they. probably just progressed in their life. Like they were 18 years old. Like they didn't know how to handle that moment. Like now they're 23 they've had way more business conversations. So, you know, you know, we've seen what's happened with the Mr. Beast of the world, right? You know, or the, you know, this creator is launching their own makeup or perfume brand. It's pretty wild. And that's the economy part, right? Where it's like, sometimes it gets mixed up. like, is it the creator economy because they're selling other brands' products? Well, part of it is like, no, they're so big in some cases that they're building their own brand and they're selling their own products. We've seen both, like when we worked with Joe Mele, Brian Aucoin: They are brands themselves. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Morgan Barclay: And his dad, he's a big creator, right? And him and his dad have this fun schtick and we've worked with them on several projects and done panels with them. Q did their first brand deal and we kind of, that was a process for them. Like, who are you guys and are you really working with Paramount or Sony? We're not really sure. And fast forward to now, it's like dad and son in a Gillette commercial, right? And it's just crazy. You're just like, okay, we were, we were helping you contract and, just do this one small deal that promote a movie. And now you're full on on a TV. You you have an agent, like you guys have a business plan and this is your life, you know? And like, so that, watching them grow up, you know, like when we were kind of like helping them with their first deal, like that's super fun when you get to work with a, a now big creator. But back then it was like, they were doing their first deal and then they've blown up since it's super cool to see them. advance in content and ⁓ the business side too. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, like watching a band blow up. That's awesome. Well, I always like to ask my guests you're excited about. It can be in your professional capacity. It can just be what's going on in your life. But is there something you're excited about right now? Morgan Barclay: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'd say so. think, you know, on the professional side, I think what's been super fun is having conversations with brands around how to help them solve some of their challenges tied specifically to creator marketing. Like, that sounds kind of dorky, but like I've always, you much like you say, digital dinosaurs, like I just love. marketing, you know, like I love when brands have a problem to solve. And so I sit in the influencer world, but like this dates back to, you know, years ago when it was, you know, a different problem. Like how do you, how do you, um, you know, launch, know, do a launch for Disney cruise lines, whether it's like search and display marketing, right? Like that, that was fun to me then. Um, so now that I've switched from, this is probably the biggest, this is the biggest shift for me. You know, I, I've been doing RFPs for 15, 16 years, right? You know, dating back to my space days. I've done my 10,000 hours. I like to say there's not an RFP I haven't seen, but I, you know, the one that threw me off like a couple of years ago, it was like reach the Latina audience for Pillsbury Crescent rolls. And I was like, you know, in different, you know, in different countries. And I was like, okay, like this one's going to be hard, you know, that's part of the experience part too is like, you're like, guys, this is going to, this one's going to be a grind to figure out. ⁓ Brian Aucoin: Yeah, I tell you upfront. Morgan Barclay: So it's been a shift for me to move into work, you know, out in the market and more of like having lunches and connecting with, you know, finding out what's resonating with brands and what they're trying to figure out and not as much like here's the brief and then come back with the idea. So there's a little bit of part of me that's like misses that. But aside from that, I think I think in life, I'd say it's, you know, I mentioned to you that I have my own pickleball channel, Pickleball Talk, and my current I need to solve for, because I know so much about influencers, is like I'm trying, there's two things, I'm trying to ⁓ out what format I want to do that I can do more consistently, which I've heard is a ⁓ key practice. Like if you don't like whatever format you're doing, then it means you're going to stop and it's never going to get big. So, but I think the psychology behind it is, for me, I'm trying to figure out my voice. So me talking to camera. So say I do like walk and talk videos about pickleball, whether it's culture based or like how to, I don't necessarily want to teach people per se, or just maybe show my process for learning. But I'm trying to figure out my voice and the psychology part is like what the Gary Vee's tell you over and over and over again. Like you just have to post and just, ⁓ I have so many videos I could do. just, I just haven't done it. And I, and I don't know if it's like, I don't know what I'm not that I'm worried about anything per se. I'm just like, I just haven't sat down and like got the camera out, started filming and made some, you know, 30 second videos on topics. I passionately have some things I want to say. I just haven't done that. And I'm not sure what's holding me back. Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The only way to do a thing is to do that thing. Morgan Barclay: I know. And so you're doing this thing and it's super impressive. And so I, you know, I bounce it back to you and go like, like what got you to actually just go like start building it and making it. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, I was invited on a podcast and I was like, this is I like this conversation. Like these are conversations I have anyways and want to have. And then this is a way that I can engage people that I want to talk to anyway. So, you know, ⁓ again, ⁓ the way do a thing is to do a thing. I like I started I got better at it, you know, over a couple episodes and started to figure out what is what is it I really want to do. But I think your point is a great one is like you've got to fall in love with that format because you're to have to do it over and over and over and over again. And that's what I did. was like, I want a brief conversation, right? I just want to talk to people for a little bit and I want to get out. Morgan Barclay: Yeah, no, yeah, the functional brand name, right? it's like, yeah, exactly. No, it's smart. But like, yeah, you just have, again, I've done channels in the past. Like I had a comedic fantasy football show that was way too ahead of its time. And like, just, but again, the mistake I made, was like, Brian Aucoin: Yes. You got it. Morgan Barclay: four to six hours of writing and producing to make a three minute episode. And I just like, couldn't keep up the weekly pace. Like I made nine episodes that year and work and other life stuff happened. And I was just like, like I really liked those episodes, but then I just, was too cumbersome. Like it was just too hard. Like the format that I created, you know? And so I didn't keep doing it. And so. Brian Aucoin: Wow. Yeah. Well, to stay true to my format, I will say this has been a brief conversation on the Marketing Brief podcast. Our guest has been Morgan. Thank you for joining us, Morgan Barclay: Yeah. you, Brian. I appreciate it. Brian Aucoin: Awesome. And everybody else stay curious. Morgan Barclay: Yeah.