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63. Helping Kids Understand Money Early with Jamie Bosse · Planning & Beyond® - Where financial planning meets human understanding

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Another book in the series is about gratitude.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people think, well, gratitude and money, how's that aligned?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I've been working with clients for a long time.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like those who are content with what they have or feel like they get to a point where this is the lifestyle I want to live, and they don't keep chasing more and more and more and have kind of that gratitude mindset, they tend to be more happy with their money and happy with what they have.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they are the ones that are a little bit more successful in retirement because they're not always raising the bar on their lifestyle and never finding that happiness.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So in that book, you know, Milton meets another dog who is much less fortunate than himself, and he realizes, oh, he's really happy and he's enjoying things and he's not sad that he can't buy this shiny new collar.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so he learns that a lot of the happiness doesn't come from buying stuff, it comes from our relationships and other things in our lives.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning and Beyond, the show where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: As an exceptional financial advisor, you know that financial planning is about more than just numbers.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's about giving clients the clarity they need to align their money with what matters most, which is why each episode is designed with that goal in mind.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: You'll learn how to uncover the psychology behind client decisions and gain insights and behavioral strategies needed to create deeper, more meaningful client relationships.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: You'll discover techniques for navigating emotional client situations, drawn from conversations with leading industry experts in behavioral finance, psychology, communication, and more.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's mastering discovery meaning, handling sensitive client conversations, or understanding what is truly keeping your client stuck, you'll walk away with not only strategies that you can use in your next client meeting, but also the confidence to do so.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, hi.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: I should probably introduce myself.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, a therapist who somehow wandered into the world of financial behavior and kind of decided to stay.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: My mission is to help you bridge the gap between financial planning and human understanding.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because remember, finances don't have feelings, but your clients do.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dive in.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Planning at Beyond, the podcast where financial planning meets human understanding.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Ashley Kwame, and today I'm joined by a new friend, Jamie Bossey, author of several books, financial planner for 20 years, mama of four, and just a generally cool person who I've come to know via LinkedIn.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: This is where I find social media to be just so wonderful, allowing you to find and connect with new people.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Jamie, welcome to the show.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad to have you here.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Ashley.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to be here.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we were chatting before just around some of our overlaps, maybe not quite war stories of being a mom, but just the time period, you know, of life that we are both in.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And our conversation today, I want to focus on some of your writings that you've done, but thinking about also for financial planners.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: What I love about what you are doing is bridging that gap between your expertise as a financial planner and connecting it to younger generations, uh, hopefully helping your clients being able to offer tools or specifically just your books and helping your clients teach, you know, that next generation.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk about all of that, but I am curious, where did the idea of writing children's books come from?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: How did that evolve?
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, like you said, you know, I've been a financial planner for a long time now.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when I started having kids, I guess I just assumed they would pick up good money habits from me.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember the moment I realized they do not.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like um one of those random holidays where school's not in on a Monday, and I was at Target with my oldest.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: He was, I think, five or six at the time.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Oh, we need to get this gravedigger remote control, like$65 thing.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Well, that's not in our spending plan today.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, then just buy it on Amazon.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, so he thinks that Amazon is just this magical thing that delivers things to your doorstep, doesn't cost any money, there's no financial transaction involved.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I was like, oh man, how do I figure out how to teach him about money at kindergarten age?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked for different resources.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So we read a lot of books as a family anyway.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's typically our kind of a bedtime routine.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't find a lot of options out there for that age group.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so I initially was like, Well, I like to write.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: I had written blog articles for companies and newsletters and things like that.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I initially was like, maybe I'll write like a jingle, like a little rap song or something where it's like it's catchy, he can remember it.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I ended up using our dog at the time, uh, Milton, as the character because he loved Milton to death.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, oh, this will be fun.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then once I started working on my jingle, it, you know, had different storylines that I wanted to tell.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, this could maybe be something.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I end up, there's five Milton books in the series currently.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm still going.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And still going.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, share just in that experience of realizing that our kids are not picking up money habits through osmosis or just genetically.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's not quite how it works and the learning and teaching involved in that it is, you know, my kids are, as I was sharing, they're now 13 and almost 12.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a lot.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And trying to break down the concepts that as adults we know in such a way to where children, young children can understand and really grasp, but then also start to recognize and notice and like put into practice, that is not easy.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is not easy.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: That is such a tall, a tall order.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so your Milton series, Mr.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Milton, the money savvy pup, this series started to evolve and it is it is ongoing.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: Can you share with us maybe some of the principles or storylines maybe here?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of money habits were you focused on or did focus on?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, go along the lines of what you just said about it being difficult to teach these concepts to kids.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's even more difficult because money is really invisible today.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, when I was a kid, I had money in my pocket or I didn't, and that determined if I could buy something that day, right?
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just not like that anymore.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they might have an app, they might have a card, they watch you use cards or apps every day.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: So they really aren't seeing and feeling money like how we learned about it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: So when I was working on the Milton books, the first one is really about just money basics.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we need money to buy things.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get money?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Money is earned by working, and that sometimes you have to wait and save to get what you want.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You can't just buy everything all at once.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's a lot of decisions that come with money, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Once you spend it on one thing, you can't then use that same money for something else.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which a lot of adults don't get, right?
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of adults don't get it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then he meets some new friends along in the series, and he learns about kind of the give, save, spend concept in the second book, where it's like, yes, money can be used for spending, but it can be also be used for other things.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we can use it to give if that's something that we value.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we should always be saving a part of our income for our future selves.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were writing these, I'm curious, like from a in translating it and talking through where they get.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Did you test this stuff out like with your kids?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: Were you like, hey, let me try some of these concepts and see if like they uh like it resonates with them, if it clicks with them and then, oh yeah, okay, I'll include that in there.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like were your kids kind of the guinea pigs for testing out some of these storylines and seeing what works?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: They've been the guinea pigs all along, yes.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I do test the concepts on them.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, for example, with the give, save, spend concept in the book, we use clear jars as kind of the give, save, spend model.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that I learned through my kids, where we started out with piggy banks and the kids they just couldn't see it, right?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So they just would dump it out all the time, like to make sure the money is still in there.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where it's like, well, we need clear containers so they can see it and they can see it fill up and they know you know something's happening there.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's so smart.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I remember I had this makes me off.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I wonder if my parents still have it.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: The really large clear Coke bottle.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a the shape of like the glass coke bottles.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: My mom worked for Coca-Cola for a period of time.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if that's where she got it, truthfully, actually.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just know that at some point it appeared in my childhood.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was where we would drop like loose change or you know, savings.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it was so big, Jamie.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like so big.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was probably as tall as me.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I bet it's a collector's item.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it is, but I remember that it was so big that it almost felt impossible to fill there.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I also remember really, I'll say liking.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like I liked the fact that I could see the money because it when I would drop, you know, like change in, like you can see it kind of add up and see it start to fill, start to fill up.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that I hadn't thought about, I haven't thought about this coke plastic coin jar in years.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But as I'm hearing you say that, I'm remembering just that feeling and sense of being able to see your money and to see when you're adding to it and the difference that makes the feeling that it gives for you.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: How was that for your kids?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Did you notice anything in terms of their responses when it was clear?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they were very proud of it, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to show it off.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted to put it beside each other to see who had more.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, that like it was a kind of a contest and it was something they were really proud of.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, the competition.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: My two who are, you know, 17 months apart, I have no doubts that there would be competition if we did clear jars.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming that that's probably just natural for siblings to want to be competitive in that way.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: That makes a lot of sense.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, Milton has a lot of friends.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's learning about how really what money is and how it's used, how do we earn it?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: How do we use it for our life?
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the other lessons that Milton is learning along the way?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So another book in the series is about gratitude.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of people think, well, gratitude and money, how's that aligned?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I've been working with clients for a long time.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like those who are content with what they have or feel like they get to a point where this is the lifestyle I want to live, and they don't keep chasing more and more and more and have kind of that gratitude mindset, they tend to be more happy with their money and happy with what they have.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And they are the ones that are a little bit more successful in retirement because they're not always raising the bar on their lifestyle and never finding, you know, that happiness.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: So in that book, you know, Milton meets another dog who is much less fortunate than himself.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he realizes, oh, he's really happy and he's enjoying things, and he's not sad that he can't buy this shiny new collar.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so he learns that a lot of the happiness doesn't come from buying stuff, it comes from, you know, our relationships and other things in our lives.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I actually, surprisingly, um, this will surprise most people who are listening.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: The therapist part of me, like my therapist heart, loves that gratitude, is included in there because you're spot on.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like when we take the time to mentally walk through and acknowledge the things that are in our life that we are grateful for, it does create a sense of contentment there.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, and I've had similar experience working with clients later on, like in adulthood, those who are more, I'll say content, they operate significantly less from a scarcity mindset.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they are just more satisfied with what they have.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's not that lifestyle creep, maybe, that starts to come in there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that gratitude is incorporated in Milton's journey.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now, eventually he works his way up to investing.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Am I accurate in saying that?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's not currently a Milton book about investing, but there is investing for tweens, which is more of a separate book from the Milton series.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I do feel like Milton will grow into an investor.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Some point.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: I picture him kind of like a Zootopia character that stands up and has like clothes on himself.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not quite there yet.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is Milton gonna become a CFP?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Probably.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe he'll become a financial therapist.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like a career in finances is in Milton's future.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I'm trying to write that story for you, just know that I would be cheering that on.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: If Milton did come into financial services.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, you've written, you know, this fabulous series and then even the investing book for teens here.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked a little bit about kind of taking that work in on the personal side, but I'd love to hear a little bit about how has that work helped you with your clients on the financial planning side?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, great question.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like, you know, as planners, we always see people who are set up pretty well for success, but then there's something's holding them back, right?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And usually their biggest risk, it's not the stock market, it's that 32-year-old kid that's still on the payroll or that whole family that belongs to that 32-year-old kid that is, you know, draining this client's retirement assets.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that support, I mean, it comes out of love.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: We all want to help our kids, we want to get them in a good spot.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: But if there's not a point where that child becomes, you know, financially independent, then that's a big risk for the rest of you know their golden years.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like bringing it up with clients.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, how are you talking to your kids or grandkids about money?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I usually give them a free copy of my books, you know, at some point when they have the grandkids or kids, and then helping them facilitate that those conversations if they want.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of clients will have like teenage kids come in, talk to us about investing, how that works, if we have a UTMA account for them, or if they're working for the parents' business and they have a Roth IRA, you know, we'll incorporate the kids in the discussion too.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So they can see, you know, how these contributions are growing, how the market works, and start to understand that basic, you know, investor mindset.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I completely agree with just from a risk standpoint, where the risk really lies for older generations that G1 and it is, you know, their their kids, their adult kids, and maybe even their grandkids too.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was that always the thought or plan?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is that, hey, I'll use these books as a conversation tool to kind of help bridge the gap with my clients?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Was that always part of your genius plan in writing?
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Not originally.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: That one kind of evolved because originally it was like, okay, how do I teach my own kids about money?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then thinking about how empowering that is to if you were to understand money and how it works and get some good practice with it, when you're young, you know, one of the biggest ways to make money is time, right?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if you understand it and have the investor mindset to be patient and use the stock market to your advantage, that is, you know, decades more compounding than maybe we even had, right?
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think empowering that next generation with education and making money, not a taboo topic that we can't talk about, will serve them well.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes a lot of sense.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the things that Clayton and I have been, uh I don't know if I shared with you that my husband Clayton's a CFP.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's one of the things around investing specifically.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: We've been focused on with both our kids being right there, kind of at the edge of getting ready to hopefully get their first jobs, teaching them a little bit more like about investing and how it works.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um, they both have really latched on to that idea.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Clayton is fantastic, he's fantastic at showing charts, you know, compound, you know, interest charts of like if you put this in now, and you know, by the time you are 30, like he's great at showing that, which can be motivating for young kids, but it's not just a one-time conversation, like as you probably already know, like these are conversations that you know have to be brought up like time and time again.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, how are we continuing to find ways to talk and teach or demonstrate even as well?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: As you've started to integrate this more with like your clients, are there any stories, confidentiality, obviously?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, like, are there any client stories where you found that through that education, you've started to see like, oh, okay, it's starting to make a difference there for them, whether it's for the client or for that next generation?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like a lot of people, particularly parents, are hesitant to talk about money with their kids because they feel like they didn't do a good job or they should have started sooner, or, you know, they're just ashamed of all the mistakes they've made, right?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I would say most of the time, I don't have a lot of clients that are like, yep, I've done everything right.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: I feel good about it.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, most of the time they come in like, oh gosh, you know, I should have came in years ago.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have a credit card debt, I had this going on, I had that, you know.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they shy away from the conversation.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what I've seen with clients that have, you know, the Milton series, it gives them words and tools to talk to the kids about money.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not coming from them.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, well, remember what Milton says, he says, Do you know, practice with your money and they use that as a way to learn together, which I think is really cool.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being in that time period of you said not having the words.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that, yeah, that really speaks to me because as a parent, and even now sometimes I'm like, I know what I need to tell you or what I want to tell you.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't know maybe how to frame this in a way that you are going to get it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And also where maybe hopefully where maybe my emotions also don't come into play as well, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: The frustration.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that idea of just having words and you through the Milton series giving clients words to be able to hold on to lessons and seeing that play out there.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, do you facilitate like within your practice?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are, I know you share like the books with clients and even do some of that.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever meet with that next generation to do some education, some Milton education there with them?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, like sometimes we will bring them into the meeting if that is something the family wants to do.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Other times it would be something maybe where I come to that child's classroom and we have a Milton discussion or I read the Milton books to the class.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been a way that things are kind of coordinated sometimes.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, parents will tell me that are clients that they use more examples now.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: So since they're talking about it already with reading the books together, they're more apt to, you know, when they're at the grocery store together, be like, okay, well, we have this much to spend today.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to help me pick out the snacks, or why are you choosing that over this?
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's look at the price tags, or we're not buying that today, but let's make a plan to save up for it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: So just making them more aware and using kind of daily examples as they come up.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we need a Milton workshop series that financial advisors can buy.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let me just create this whole business model writing it down right now.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry, Jamie.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna probably suggest more things for you.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: I wrote it down.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess I say that in part because I am working with a lot of financial advisors.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I will hear them make comments like in passing around it's important to teach the next generation, like about money, but maybe they don't do that within their practice, you know, or they'll touch on like financial education being really important.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said, kind of lack of that can be a risk factor as well.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think where, at least I would imagine, but also to some extent, see, is that saying it, but then actually putting it into practice and doing it, like teaching clients, advisors can get kind of stuck with how to do that.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know like, do you, I mean, is this something that you do like with every single client?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that you do it with clients, but I don't know, do you do it with every single client?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Is this like part of like the Jamie Bossy way of working?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like when a new client comes in, or is it just more intuitive of, you know, okay, this client probably could use some of that education?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it kind of depends on the client and what their situation is.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times people have found me as an advisor because of the Milton books or because of things I post.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so they're already kind of familiar with that concept.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so they'll ask about it or tell me examples about how they're using it or what they've done.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so then we might dive deeper into conversations.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: For me, a part of the conversation is always what are the kids up to?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are they doing these days?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And whether or not the kids are grown or five or whatever.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just because I want to understand as a family, what are the dynamics there?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if it makes sense to talk more about money and teaching them, we'll go down that road.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's interesting.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I like the idea of asking about dynamics, you know, too, and trying to even assess that level of understanding literacy.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: What's the relationship like?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: That would make sense.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have any other like just kind of questions that you sprinkle in there when you're trying to assess for like dynamics or understand money or family, I guess, money conversation patterns?
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when I give a copy of the book or I I have some resources too that are like worksheets and games.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: If I share them with a client that often opens up the conversation for them to talk to me about, you know, oh, this is really great.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'll use this, or we do something like this already, or we're using the Green Light app to do investing with the kids.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then we can kind of build from there.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Something that comes up when kids are going to college, we often talk about how is this being funded?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to be paying them an allowance?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have skin in the game?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about the risk factors of like the kid having estate planning documents so that if something happened to them, you know, the parent can have power of attorney and like so there's just other things that kind of open up depending on the stage of life that the kids are at.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's always important because that's a big part of their life and a part of what they're doing is, you know, what's going on with the kids.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well and having those conversations really sets that foundation then, you know, it's like the, you know, you teach a kid to fish, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like analogy.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's what I think about.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you are teaching them how to manage and work with money in all of the different areas and parts and pieces, you know, from well, maybe not birth, but you know, topper, toddler kind of preschool age up to young adulthood, right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: It really does set that foundation there, you know, for them.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: As we think about or talking about just some practical ways, I love the going off to college piece, but are there other like practical ways that advisors can talk to their clients, whether they're grandparents or even just parents of like young children, like are there other practical conversation tips that you would suggest for advisors?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think going along the lines of like money scripts and your history with money.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: So asking them, you know, what are some of your earliest memories around money and kind of figuring out where they're coming from, which you may just be uncovering as a part of the planning process anyway.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then relating that then to how are you having these conversations with your kids to change that narrative if you didn't like the narrative that you had when you grew up.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people maybe grow up with a lot of shame around money or we don't talk about money or they're money avoiders.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, once they recognize that about themselves, then you can kind of turn the tables and say, well what are you doing now to change that for this next generation?
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then you can insert the tools and talk about it.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: What do you tend to find when you ask clients if they are having these conversations or how they would like to change some of that like you know for their children.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: What tends to come up for you with clients?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say it's very generational.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I would say a lot of the kind of boomer generation is still very like closed or like we're not talking about this.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: They'll figure it out when I die.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: So so but then they're more apt to introduce us to that kid themselves and say, okay, you take it on you guys talk about it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be part of it, right?
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that can be helpful too if we just get an early start sure with them and get them on the right foot.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would say a lot of Gen X Gen Y is really trying to think about, you know, how do we use technology to teach our kids about money?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how can we be more proactive with this?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of good apps and websites and things out there.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that generation has thought more about college planning because they were the ones that had the bulk of the student loans.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so so they're thinking about it more whether or not they've implemented anything or talking about it yet, but it's on their mind at least.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've similar to you find that the boomer generation can be a bit more um they'll find out when we die.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And outsource some of those conversations to planners or just to to other people.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Although, you know, I do see have the privilege of working with like you know quite a few who maybe want to but are nervous or scared or they worry about having the conversation how it might impact their kids or even their grandkids for conversations that are had between that G1 first generation and second generation like are there things that make it go well what's being done or said that help those conversations to go well?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think vulnerability on the part of the parents can be really helpful, right?
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know if the parents not coming into the conversation like I know everything, you don't know anything, let me teach you this, they just shut off right kids aren't interested in that.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Even adult kids aren't interested in that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: But if the parents come in and say hey you know this was my experience or this is what I went through, maybe not all the nitty gritty details, but hey, this is what happened.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I felt I wish I had known this beforehand.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: And using stories to kind of make it real and make it memorable.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then that way the kid you know isn't putting the barriers up right away is like, oh I'm sorry you went through that and thank you for trying to explain this to me.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so I think vulnerability and stories can be a really good way to start that conversation.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I would echo that that's something that I see that goes well 90.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to put a the rest of the number on to but a large percentage of the time leading with story and vulnerability as you said that next generation doesn't get as defensive closed off.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: They feel more like it's coming from a place of genuine like care and love and not a I know better than you.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You need to know this.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah you're doing it wrong you know kind of way I think that's an excellent point um is encouraging clients to lead with vulnerability.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well Jamie as we start to wrap up here I'd love to know like you know for advisors who might be listening and are curious about you know weaving in education such as this, you know, with their clients or with that next generation or maybe even with their own kids, what are some great just kind of starting point tips that you would offer to them?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would say just asking about it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: So asking about the kids, asking what they're into and then maybe finding a way to open up a money discussion related to that right.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: So if the kid is really into soccer and you pay thousands of dollars for their soccer Jamie get out of my head oh my gosh I don't like you know like maybe just talking about that with them like okay you know we want to spend money on things that we value you value soccer and we are spending some money on that so we might have to give up some other things to pay for that just having just kind of open conversations around that.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or if they're you know starting a new sport okay like what all's involved in joining this sport and how can we plan around that and then as kids start asking for more things and want more things, just normalizing that money conversation that it's okay to want things.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to spend money on things that we don't need, but we have to make a plan for it.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if we want to save up for something let's see how much it costs let's see how long it'll take us to save for it and then make a plan to get there.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what's really important with kids is you want them to get some practice around money and you almost want them to fail now while the stakes are lower.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if they are earning an allowance or they have their own money and they're saving for something, you want them to experience kind of the pain of like not getting it right when you want it.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then also once you get it, are you happy with that?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like did that actually bring you the happiness you thought it would so like something I like to do with my kids is once they've bought something, you know, I usually take a picture of it so like I remember when it was and what it is and then we follow up like a week later and say hey how are you liking that deck of Pokemon cards or whatever it was.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: It is Pokemon cards.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and then usually it can go either way right they were like uh I think I lost those or I left them on the bus or, you know, I'm I'm sick of them already or whatever it is, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if it was something that they're not using anymore, they've already lost it wasn't something that brought them the joy they thought it would, then you can use that as a learning tool, not a shame tool, but a learning tool to say, okay, so how would you do it differently if you could rewind and go back.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the flip side if they love it they bought something that they use all the time they're having a lot of fun with it celebrate that and say that's how money is supposed to work.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're using our money to buy things that we care about and we should celebrate.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that those are such great ways of framing and even just follow-up questions.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: My son, 13 year old son, is wanting to earn money he has it in his mind he'd like to make a thousand dollars in a year.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I like it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I'm not quite sure where that anchor comes from this is a very new con this is very new but we have his idea around making money is by selling things eBay.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite sure where I don't shop on eBay I'm not he's hearing things at school from friends that's what I'm wondering.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I do like the idea and some of our conversation has been around do we help him essentially fail because he's not going to make the money that he thinks he is from selling you know these things on eBay.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to quite work like that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also I appreciate you sharing what's involved in that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just thinking through like how can we help him map out financially what's involved in that an eBay site transaction fees like shipping like all of those things.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: And those go through I think my mind as a parent and very quickly which is why I didn't but I wanted to be like no we're not selling on eBay because like I know the things that are involved in it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think the points that you made here are so helpful.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like that doesn't teach him my son Cameron to think through that from a a critical thinking standpoint and map that out.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's not teaching him the money lesson that I would like for him to learn and very quickly might I add because hearing about this business eBay business plan more than I want is oh yes.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like having this conversation with you is giving me a good plan, Jamie, that I can go to him and say, all right, let's let's map this out and see if it's still worth it.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing that I'll keep you posted.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and the good thing is too with the eBay deal he might learn it quickly right like after selling one or two items like oh I sold it for this much but I only get to keep this much after shipping and all the things.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so he may learn it quickly which would be even better.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: It would be or the thing that I think that it is this valuable but oh people actually don't think that it is worth this much right you know there.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: So there are lessons to be learned.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: I just need to I need to pull back and probably do some work in helping him do that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna keep you posted.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: I might pick up some of the Milton books and see what Milton would say about this situation.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'll use perfect I'll blame it on him.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll use him blame it on him.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: All right Jamie if people are wanting more Jamie Bosse in their life if they'd like to learn more about you if they'd like to find these books tell them where can they connect with you.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I post videos and content on uh Instagram and Facebook under Money Boss Mom.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: I also post a lot on LinkedIn which as you said is one of the greatest social medias out there I feel like in terms of resources and where to buy books they're available on Amazon and other places but if you buy them from the Money Boss Mom website they will be autographed when you get them.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are free resources on both the Money Boss Mom website and Milton the Money Savvy Pup website that are downloadable their games, activities, worksheets that you can use with your kids or use in a classroom or use in the waiting room at your financial planning office.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah so for advisors listening if maybe you're unsure how to have these conversations Jamie's already done the work for you you can just log in and go to those websites I mean and purchase those resources use those books there as your own guide for helping you with your conversations with clients.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well Jamie thank you so much for coming on thank you for sharing all of your wisdom here with us today and thank you to all of you for tuning in and allowing Jamie and I into your ears and into your mind.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you found this conversation valuable if it resonated with you we would love to keep the connection going both Jamie and I so you can check her out on LinkedIn as she said you can also find me on LinkedIn at AshleyQamy where I share weekly insights on the human side of planning.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want even more Ashley in your life if you want even more planning and beyond you can head over to the website and sign up for our monthly newsletter at www.beondthefp.com make sure though to follow the show so that you never miss a future conversation like this one.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And as always my friends remember finances don't have feelings but your clients do.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time keep planning keep growing and keep going beyond thanks for joining me on this episode of Planning and Beyond.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you found today's insights valuable and inspiring for both your practice and your personal growth.
• 34:25
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• 34:30
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• 34:36
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• 34:51
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• 34:54
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• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time keep planning keep growing and keep going beyond