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The Power of Intervention with Frances Murchison · Finding New Waters

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The secret will kill a family system, they will destroy the
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fabric in the family. And when she said it out loud,
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he visibly began to shake. All over.
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What? I often hear from families.
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Is I wish I'd said something then, but I didn't know what to
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say. Good morning and Welcome to our
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inaugural podcast. Finding new Waters.
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My name is Graham dirty, and I'm the founder, and CEO of new
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orders recovery. In Raleigh, North Carolina.
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I'm joined here today by her. Medical director dr.
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Harold Hong and Frances Murchison from whole family.
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Interventions, Francis is a professional certified.
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Interventionist recovery coach life, coach and holistic health
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coach. In addition, Francis is an
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author speaker, Retreat leader, and a yoga instructor.
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With 35 years of sobriety Francis believes addiction is a
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family disease which is exhibited in her work.
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As a coach her mission is to help individuals and families.
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Make grace-filled changes toward health and well-being so that
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they can live a life of recovery resilience and wholeness.
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Francis has published two books breathe.
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See nourish energized, a pathway to healing and heal your whole
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body. The 12-day power plan to flush
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toxins, balance hormones and reset your body's most essential
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organ. Our goal in creating finding new
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Waters is to create a resource for families to help navigate
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the complexities of supporting a loved one struggling with
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substance, use dependence or mental health.
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The fact of the matter is that when we find ourselves in
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crisis, due to one of these issues, most people have no idea
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what direction to turn my hope is that we can help shed some
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light into what can be many families darkest hour and
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Francis. Thank you for joining us today.
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Obviously always a pleasure to get see your face and spend a
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little bit of time with you and I'll just start with like a
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little bit of background Francis and I actually met years ago at
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the arise intervention, training up at Cumberland Heights up in
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Nashville. So I kind of saw her starting
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this journey And it's just been amazing to see it all transpire
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and all the amazing work that you're doing up to this point,
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is really incredible. So, thanks for coming today.
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It's a privilege to be here with you.
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I'm so proud of what you've accomplished here and it's it's
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an honor to be here. Thank you.
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Thank you. So, you know, one of the start
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out today, you know, with a couple questions I know that you
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just got off a flight from doing an intervention, right?
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And obviously that's kind of The core of what you're doing these
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days. So can you tell us a little bit
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about not, you know, in particular the intervention that
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you, you know, we just were a part of but maybe the
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intervention process. And you know what families need
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to kind of learn about what an intervention is.
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And you know, just give us a little bit of background on kind
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of the mechanics of that process can do.
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Yeah, I think the first thing that I want to say is that the
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way whole families Orchestrates interventions is nothing like
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the show and that there is a, preconceived notion among many
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families that it is a meeting that is confrontational and can
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feel quite shaming to the identified person.
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Often a loved one. And I am passionately committed
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to the concept that the meeting itself.
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Is a meeting of love. It's a meeting of Truth and it's
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a meaning of a meeting of kindness and it's
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solution-based. Yep.
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So the way it begins is often the call that I get Is often the
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last gasp that the family has. Yep, to try to help their loved
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one. I am truly the last house on the
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Block, if I'm getting the call, they've tried in their mind.
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Everything else. Yep.
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So it's often a call of desperation.
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Yeah, and what I tell families is that true that often it is
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the case that That we don't get better, we don't ask for help.
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We don't want to get help until we I as an addicted person have
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come to the end of my rope. I've hit my bottom but I also
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and I also believe that interventions are when the
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family has hit their bottom and when they are suffering enough
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to say we're done and we need help and often that is exactly
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what I say to the Person. The minute we walk in the door
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is your family reached out to me because they are suffering and
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they don't know how to help you. Yeah.
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And so we're going to be here to offer you a solution.
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So the process begins by someone in the family, reaching out to
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me and saying, my loved one is suffering.
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How do I get them to treatment? How do I get them to start this
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road to recovery and one of the first things that I ask this
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person In is, do you have a line in the sand that you're willing
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to draw if this person in your life whom you love or have
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loved? Maybe they're at their end of
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their rope to do you have a line in the sand if they don't go
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right? Because if they don't have a
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clear boundary, if they don't have a clear consequence, if
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they don't have a clear, Line in the Sand.
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Then we need to work on one and come back to me or I'll help you
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create one because simply to ask your loved one to go to
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treatment when you don't have in the back of your mind.
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If you don't go, I'm willing to do or I'm not willing to do.
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In my experience, it's not going to be nearly as successful.
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Yep. Yep.
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And that often for families. It's a very challenging place
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for them to land because they don't think that that's loving
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right. Right.
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And what I tell families is the most loving thing.
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You can do is to speak the truth in love, tell them you're
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suffering and offer them a solution, right?
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So then I say, A to the person whose reach out to me, do you
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have a posse? Do you have three to four people
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five people for whom with whom your loved one has a
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relationship cares, deeply enough about what they have to
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share. Do does your loved one care
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about having a relationship with this person?
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Long-term I can't have anyone in the room who for whom or with
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him. The loved one has a massive
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resentment or has a massive resentment toward No room for
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resentment or shame or blame or any condemning language.
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This is a love meeting nothing but compassion and empathy.
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They may not have it at this moment because they may be kind
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of sort of done. But we're going to, at least
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pretend for this meeting. And we're going to prepare for
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that meeting by having one-on-one conversations with me
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and I'm going to help you go down memory lane.
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And you're literally opening up your photo album, and you're
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going to remember beautiful times that you've had with this
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person way before this person picked up or began struggling
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with mental health challenges, and we're literally going to
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share those memories with your loved one.
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Because that person has forgotten, that person has
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forgotten who they are at their core, how much they're loved.
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How much. They have been affirmed and
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appreciate it in their life by this circle of friends and
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family. So I help the family members
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friends. Employers may be literally, go
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down memory lane and pull those up.
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Remember, bro. Remember when we were sailing
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around the islands and we saw the sunrise and we were drinking
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coffee and you told me this was like the most incredible.
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A moment of your life. We're going to we're going to
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share those memories with each other and with you.
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Yeah, I love you so much. I'm not willing to sit on the
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sidelines and watch your life. Implode because of your
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substance use disorder or your mental health challenges.
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Yeah, I love you too much. To let you stay here.
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And this is how we've shared our lives together.
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Other yep. Yeah, absolutely love it.
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So powerful. So so so in that preparation we
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do that and then they set out writing their letters where they
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put it down in writing now are you inviting them to the
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intervention? The the person of concern you
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asked a great question because there's so many approaches right
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to interventions. I have kinda sorta created my
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own approach by what I feel like picking the best out of arise.
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And also following love first with Deborah and Jeff Jay, I
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think the way they approach interventions is beyond
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brilliant, right? So most of the time for me, if
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if this family, if these people have talked about and talked
10:12
about wanting to offer this person, a Lifeline, it may be
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very appropriate to invite them. If the family feels as though
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that person is either going to over you.
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Use harm themselves, perhaps harm someone else or bolt.
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Then it's more of we're going to have a coffee.
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Yeah. And we're just going to share
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what's been on our heart and then you get the floor.
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And I'm telling you, Nine ninety nine percent of the time, the
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identified person wants to be in the meeting.
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Hmm. Because we as human beings, love
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to be talked about right and especially if I know from the
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get-go that you're going to tell me things that are lovely about
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me. I'm going to want and I do.
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I'm going to want to sit in here.
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You yeah, really had someone up and leave.
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All I say is your Family is struggling, they feel powerless.
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How to help you they've asked me to join you.
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They have a few things they want to say to you and then if you're
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willing to listen to them, the floor is yours.
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Yeah. And so we literally go around
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the circle, we know where everyone seated.
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We've had a rehearsal, we've gone through the letters,
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everyone's heard each other's letters.
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So now the healing begins with the family because there are
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secrets that perhaps come Out in these letters that a person
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hasn't heard. For instance, just came off an
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intervention, grandmother mother of the identified person Shared
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with me that she was an alcoholic.
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Ex-husband was an alcoholic father to this.
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Son was an alcoholic. He died of alcoholism.
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Cirrhosis of the liver, and she was emotionally and physically
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abused. He never knew that he never knew
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it. Wow, she tells me she starts
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crying and saying, I've never shared this out loud.
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I'm getting Goosebumps. Even telling you this.
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I said Sally, you need to put it in your letter.
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Oh no. It's been under the rug It's
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been under the rug for 45 years, son is 50.
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Can you put that in your letter? It would be so important for
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your son to hear this and it really reframes the entire
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family system, right? It's like everything that we've
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ever known this whole perception of who we are as a family is
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false, right? And percent and it really kind
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of is those Those types of I feel like that piece of
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information can really wake somebody up and say holy cow,
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you know, and again it and it's not, you know, we're not you
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know just trying to work with client here you know we're
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working on the family right. And this is a family disease and
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and that's, you know, I love working with somebody like
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yourself because by the time they get to us they're kind of
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teed up and it and the family is, you know, been coached and
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they know what to expect and they're ready to hold the line
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and you know it's difficult when we get families, who don't
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really understand that concept. Cept that, you know, listen,
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we're working with you, but we're also working with the
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family as well because everybody needs to do some work here,
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right? The secrets will kill a family
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system, they will destroy the fabric in the family.
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And when she said it out loud, he visibly began to shake all
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over as he's been the identified Black Sheep.
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Everybody else has been Towing the line and just live in the
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sort of perfect life. Wife mom, shares this bombshell
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and all of a sudden now mom and son.
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Are both sharing in this. Pain and suffering, and their
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end. And the empathy.
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Now is literally tangible in the room where son says, oh my gosh.
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I've known, I've known that there was something off in this
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family, I could feel it. I never knew what it was and at
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50 years old. He hears the secret that Mom has
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been protecting. No wonder, no wonder he's Using,
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he is literally physically, embodying.
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The trauma, the generational trauma, that, who knows where it
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started? I mean, it could have started
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Three generations ago, five generations ago, the family
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begins to heal, no matter what the identified person chooses
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for him or herself in terms of his own recovery.
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The family begins to heal right away.
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This is secret that the other brother never knew.
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Yeah, best friends, never knew wife.
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I never knew and we're all hearing it.
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Except for me, right? All at the same time credible.
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Incredible, incredible, incredible, incredible.
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Tell us where this is a little bit about what was going on with
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their family. Like that, got them up to that
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moment of reaching out to you, they reach them.
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Ah, great question wife, I always fall in love with the
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family, just so, you know, I love this woman so much.
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I've known her for a whopping two months, right?
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Right. She's incredible.
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We get very close to these people getting to know them.
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Well, it just depends on how desperate the crisis is I've
16:00
done it in four days. This family, This Woman, This
16:04
wife, specifically planned it to be post his birthday and post a
16:09
skiing trip. Yep, some families don't have
16:12
that kind of time, right? Because there's too much risk.
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She thought she could do it. She's been living with it for
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five years. She called me because her
16:22
therapist, and she lives outside of New York City.
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I love part time. In New York City.
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She's been talking to her therapist.
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Her therapist told me to call told her to call me.
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It took her six months to pick up the phone and call me and the
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reason she was willing to call me is that she finally realized
16:40
she was done. Yep.
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And what she said was I'm living a single.
16:46
Apparent life in a two-parent home and I've never been
16:51
lonelier. Yeah, this husband who is just
16:57
an awesome Star got laid off in covid, and he's an extrovert and
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His World crashed and burned and he sleeps until 2:00 p.m.
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He wakes up just in time to pick up.
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Their 10 year old daughter from school.
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He's sober for about 4 hours. Drinking at about 6:00 and then
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he stays up until five and she said, when her daughter, her
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ten-year-old daughter came to her after Christmas and said why
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does daddy sleep all day? Hmm, I don't feel safe with him
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in the car, when he picks me up from school, chill bumps again
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then Mommy, knew right then, and there, if I don't do this, I am
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modeling to my daughter that this is normal.
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And this is not normal and Mom, knew, right, then, and there to
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save her daughter. She had to intervene on
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daughter's behalf. Yeah.
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To save the two of them. Is so it makes me want to weep.
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I mean the strength of these families is just and then we
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have other families who are really stuck, right really,
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really stuck. And I have those too but yeah
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and you know his I think back to the arise training, you know,
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sometimes two. And one of the pieces that I
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loved that we pulled out of that wood and dr.
18:18
Hong, actually, you know, uses the genogram quite often with
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our assessment clients and and it's just so incredible and so
18:25
powerful to, you know, the genographic Is a chart.
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It's kind of a family tree so to speak where we start going
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Generations back and start identifying some of the issues
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and some of the, you know, the family system issues, some of
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the individual issues with, you know, Generations previously.
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And what was so cool that I found from it was when the
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person got sober the following Generations, you saw that break
18:51
in addiction, right? And you saw that break in the
18:54
cycle, which is so so powerful. And you know, I'm person
18:58
recovery. Hurry, my wife is a person in
19:00
recovery. We have three daughters and you
19:03
know, I used to say, gosh, you know, chances are one of them is
19:05
going to have an issue. But, you know, my hope is that
19:08
we are raising them in a very different household than, you
19:12
know, a lot of us grew up in right and and you know hopefully
19:15
we can model that behavior and listen, we're not perfect and
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you know, life happens and everybody.
19:20
It's tough raising kids these days but you know do you still
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use a genogram? I do.
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Yeah. And what I've noticed.
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East. And in looking at that and
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filling it out, sometimes it's on the Fly, sometimes I have
19:37
longer and it really begins to clarify itself.
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When I have these one-on-one conversations with every single
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person in the circle. I require that, I mean, I said,
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highly suggested because I learned so much about the family
19:54
system when I have individual conversations with everyone here
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and what I am, I'm becoming so clear about is that
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generational. Substance use disorder mental
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health. Trauma, trauma is beneath so
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much of what I see? Yep, when I enter a family
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system. And when I started, I didn't
20:28
understand the power of the generational trauma.
20:31
Yep. Yep.
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Yeah, it's amazing if we don't stop the cycle, it just gets
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passed down. Yeah.
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Just I saw On all the time, Graham particularly particularly
20:44
with the mental health stuff. Yep.
20:48
We live. What we learn?
20:50
Yep, we live what we learn. Yeah, and as dr.
20:54
Hong likes to say, one of my favorite quotes is from, you is
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where there's addiction. There's trauma, you know, and
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that's just that's the reality of the world these days and 100.
21:04
I mean, I would say, we see it with, with most in or if not all
21:07
clients, right? Totally are percent.
21:10
It may be the family you're talking about, I mean, you just
21:14
feel the pain and the weight that they've been carrying for
21:18
generations. And One thing that I've learned
21:24
in my ethics class way, back in college was there's a strange
21:27
good reason every bad thing that we do.
21:32
And with all the pain and the weight that this game was
21:35
carrying addiction as a way to deal with that pain.
21:38
It just makes sense but There's so much judgment and shame and
21:44
dysfunction that comes along with it.
21:46
And you know what you're talking about.
21:49
Francis sounds like such a relief, like the people in the
21:52
family getting what they wanted for so long.
21:55
But what about all the pain and anger?
21:59
That's come along with it the same time and what so wild dr.
22:05
Hong is. This mother who's been caring
22:09
the secret for 45 years, she has congestive heart failure.
22:14
Okay, she's got high blood pressure and she's got high
22:17
cholesterol. She says that her pain
22:20
medication, cost her 25 Grand a year and I want to know if she
22:25
had shared that secret 45 years ago and been willing to be
22:30
vulnerable with these children. And really help the children.
22:36
Understand. It wasn't her fault.
22:39
It may not have even been Daddy's fault.
22:41
He has a disease. I have a disease.
22:45
We can get help for this disease.
22:48
Would she have less health problems now?
22:52
Jury is out, but my sense is that trauma lives in the body
22:57
and the body never ever, ever forgets.
23:02
In fact, enter, Only enough because it's soaked is so fresh
23:05
in my mind, right? I just got off the plane
23:07
yesterday that the husband said to Mom, Daughter doesn't know
23:19
about this, right? She's 10 and in fact, the wife
23:24
said, no, daughters actually written you a letter.
23:28
She was she was actually, the reason she was 100%, the
23:33
delusion is strong, right? The delusion and denial is like
23:38
the Berlin Wall truly and what she asked her husband in that
23:46
moment, because husband now had her Dad Mom, share his letter.
23:50
He says she asked, what did you know?
23:54
Did you know anything at 10 and he said, I knew something was
24:01
wrong. And so then she asked husband,
24:05
so what do you think, Vivian knows at 10.
24:10
Yeah. Yeah, the body never forgets.
24:14
And, you know, and you hear that all the time with, you know,
24:18
with people that are, you know, trying to, you know, find
24:21
treatment on their own is that they need to, you know, they
24:23
want to keep it a secret or they don't want this person know,
24:25
they don't want that person to know in the reality is we're
24:28
always the last people to know, right?
24:30
We're fooling ourselves. If we think that everybody
24:33
around us, doesn't know exactly what's going on, you know, and
24:35
in some cases, it's, you know, kind of waiting for people to
24:38
really Crash and Burn and get Get willing to seek treatment
24:41
but yeah, I mean I love how you spoke about trauma and you know
24:46
how it's stored in the body and I mean I am a huge believer in
24:51
that number one and one of the things that we started doing
24:54
here at new Waters is really introducing a lot of these
24:57
holistic modalities, right? And doing you know, massage
25:01
acupuncture breath work which has been incredible for our
25:05
clients. It it is hands down their
25:08
favorite thing that they do here and That was a big surprise to
25:12
me, right? So we're, you know, going to be
25:14
adding more of that type of work.
25:15
But you know, it's incredible to see these clients go in and they
25:18
do a breath work session and they don't have any clue what it
25:21
is, what it's all about and they have this like transformational
25:24
experience and really what they're doing is they're just
25:26
releasing that energy, releasing that trauma and its, you know,
25:30
it's kind of a short glimpse into, you know, some of these
25:32
modalities that we can really utilize that are great tools for
25:35
us when we're in recovery. But I know that you, you know,
25:39
are a very high Holistic person and, you know, you believe in
25:43
all these types of things, so we would you elaborate a little bit
25:45
on that and your work with it. I will ya.
25:49
So when I was I my card-carrying most proud achievement, is that?
25:55
I've been a sober mom. Hmm.
25:57
They're just, which is a miracle America but early on when my
26:02
children were infants, I took up yoga.
26:05
Hmm. And I'm dating myself because I
26:08
used A videotape, not a DVD. Not a YouTube video tape.
26:17
Yeah. And what I had heard in recovery
26:22
Was that the mind was not a welcome place for me to stay for
26:27
very long. I had no idea what that meant.
26:33
but a friend and Recovery said, you may want to try some yoga
26:38
mmm, and in the very first Astana, Class tape that I
26:45
watched. They taught breathwork hmm.
26:49
At the end of class in Sanskrit, it's called pranayama Prana,
26:53
meaning breath. It's it's a, it's an ancient
26:57
word, ancient language. It's not spoken anymore.
27:01
Except, in the yoga World, Prana means breath.
27:03
It means life and Jama means control control of the breath.
27:09
And it's actually the, the fourth, limb of this eight.
27:13
Limb practice, that is Thousands.
27:17
Of years old well and I realized that in those early days of
27:24
parenting and Recovery, I was about five years sober at the
27:28
time that I just needed some grounding practice and between
27:35
being challenged to stay in the body.
27:38
Take the Mind Into the Heart, underneath the skin into the
27:42
body, be there, be on your mat. Breathe just for 55 minutes
27:52
while the kids were napping. It began to change my life.
27:55
Yep. Shirley and what I realize is
27:59
this breathwork this mindfulness practice of being right here,
28:04
right now. Observing noticing, with no
28:09
judgement is literally 5000 years old.
28:14
It's probably as old as millennia.
28:17
And we westerners think we just we just found it out of her
28:22
sight. Yeah I hear a lot o.
28:25
This facility offers mindfulness and breathwork and Bodywork and
28:30
yoga. And same saying, like this is
28:33
what I do. I'm a yoga instructor, I teach
28:35
students how to become teachers, right?
28:38
And I lead a mindfulness practice, that's the curriculum
28:42
that I wrote. And I teach, it's all about
28:45
mindfulness. And okay, we're just catching
28:49
on. Hmm.
28:51
And the desert monks. Yeah, the Yogi's have been doing
28:54
it for literally 5000 years, but, you know, we haven't known
28:59
what we haven't known and I'm so grateful for the practice.
29:05
It is at our fingertips, it can be at a stoplight.
29:08
Yep. It can be while we're watching
29:09
the coffee, drip. It can be every time the phone
29:12
rings. It can be every time we hear a
29:15
texting, Literally just to pause and to breathe.
29:20
And notice what am I believing? Literally what am I believing
29:25
right here in this moment is my story, 10 miles out, or am I
29:30
beating myself up for something that happened?
29:34
10 miles ago where my feet are. That's where I am, right here.
29:41
Right now, I'm just here staying with my beloved Son, his wife
29:48
and two precious, just want to say precious grandchildren and
29:53
on Sesame Street, they're learning.
29:57
I think from Elmo. To breathe.
30:03
Wow, Breathe In. Breathe Out, bury them.
30:08
Breathe out, breathe in, breathe out, it works in schools.
30:14
That works at 3, and it works at 33 and 63.
30:19
I gotta say, though, I think culturally in the west, we have
30:22
just lost touch with reality, but we believe that we can work
30:28
eat sleep, wake up, do it all over again.
30:31
And that is the Hannibal for decades but it doesn't work.
30:35
And what I see happen is our clients do that, they get burned
30:40
out. Well, it's the expectation to,
30:42
right, right. It's like you're not normal, if
30:45
you can't, you can't do this right?
30:47
And they burn out. The pain is unbearable and
30:49
alcohol becomes that good idea in a bad situation.
30:54
And then they hit bottom. And and so our clients here,
30:59
when I talk to them they're they feel so shocked that they feel
31:04
better when they actually take care of themselves.
31:07
You know it's like a mystery has suddenly been solved for them
31:12
but it's just it goes back to this what the vibe I was getting
31:16
from what you were talking about and this family stories that
31:20
there's this massive reality under the surface that people
31:24
are just out of touch with and they are so fortunate to have
31:30
worked with you Francis because you you connected them with the
31:35
truth of their family and it sounds like such a huge blessing
31:39
to them that all these things. They wanted are finally
31:42
available to them. They they were so grateful but
31:48
it's not me. I'm just a literally I am just
31:53
hands and eat of a higher power and I just decide I'm walking
32:00
alongside you and you can do it because we all need
32:04
encouragement. Guidance and accountability.
32:08
And that's what our three-legged stool is as our whole family's
32:12
Mantra. Is that we're there to guide
32:16
encourage and hold some kind of accountability and it's not my
32:20
accountability, it's their accountability to themselves.
32:23
I just hold a mirror up hopefully with a little bit of
32:26
meta a little bit of loving kindness and Empathy, they're
32:30
doing the heavy lifting. I'm not I just ask questions.
32:35
Well, I'm blown away by this the spiritual realm that you're
32:39
bringing up and I've been in situations with clients where
32:43
you feel that there's the spirit in the room.
32:47
And I think a lot of people who are listening or watching would
32:51
really benefit from hearing a little bit about what it's like
32:54
to be in the room and, and does it.
32:58
Result in a moment of decision. And if you could tell us about a
33:01
time GE, Something like that comes to mind for you.
33:06
Well, given that it just happened 24 hours and think
33:10
about this one. The spiritual life is Truly
33:16
sacred to me. I feel like I've learned
33:23
everything I know about the spiritual life from the rooms of
33:29
Alcoholics Anonymous. It's not recovery for everyone,
33:33
I know that. And I'm so grateful that there
33:36
are other modes of recovery out there because the 12 steps of
33:41
Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't float, everybody's boat.
33:44
I happen to have gotten. Privilege Miracle to be able to
33:50
get sober in the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous.
33:52
I walked into my very first, a meeting in Midtown, Manhattan
33:55
and I've been sober ever since. And that is not me, that is my
34:01
higher power, having some kind of grace and mercy toward me.
34:05
And for me, it's the power of the 12 steps of Alcoholics
34:09
Anonymous. They are the most profound
34:14
pathway toward living a life of Contentment and peace and
34:20
service that I know and they can be used on top of patanjali,
34:27
Eightfold Path, Buddha's for step path, smart recovery Refuge
34:34
recovery. The the language that the 12
34:40
Steps use can be so fluid and so open and so gracious.
34:48
It makes my heart heavy when when I hear somebody saying,
34:51
it's not for me because I feel like there's a big tent there.
34:55
But nonetheless, I am passionate about. for me, the fact that
35:06
Staying sober and I mean, really sober working hard in the
35:11
interior life to be transparent, to be authentic.
35:18
I did not live an authentic life when I was using what I was
35:21
feeling inside was not what you were getting outside.
35:24
And that disconnect was the thing that brought me to my
35:26
knees, truly, I was imploding. Hmm.
35:31
The spiritual life is hugely hugely important to me and I am
35:36
very Been with families when I'm working with them.
35:39
And I'm very open with clients in early recovery.
35:44
As their coach that. I don't care what it is, but it
35:48
can't be, you can be your higher self.
35:52
Yep. There's plenty of Buddhist
35:55
support for the 12 steps of recovery.
35:58
If that's your, if that's your thing.
36:01
But it cannot it cannot be my own self will because My own
36:07
self-will, got me to my knees. Yeah, and I think too that it's
36:11
also important to highlight that, for me, at least religion
36:16
and spirituality are very different things, right?
36:19
And I think that's where a lot of people get hung up is they
36:21
think, oh, this is a religious program, or this is that or they
36:24
say God or, you know. And you know, it's again, as you
36:27
just said, it's very fluid, right?
36:30
And you know, and it's just a start, right?
36:33
And it's and you just got to, you know, do your part too.
36:36
Believe in something, but I think that puts a lot of people
36:39
off and it's always interesting when I'm, you know, talking with
36:42
clients. And they said, all right, I went
36:43
to some meetings and it didn't wasn't for me, you know, I
36:46
couldn't relate or yada yada. And then my next question is
36:48
typically, like will tell me what that experience was really
36:50
like because it's inevitably went to a meeting or two and sat
36:55
in the back and didn't say hi to anybody and you know that's
36:58
that's not what's all step is right?
37:00
And you know typically the reason that we say go to 90 and
37:04
90 meet you know, 90 meetings in 90 days, Is so that you go to a
37:07
ton of different meetings and you find your people right?
37:11
And and that's really it's not, you know, this isn't a sentence.
37:14
You know that we're giving you like, you need to go to a
37:16
meeting every day. It's for your benefit so that
37:18
you can really find your tribe, you know, and that's what it's
37:21
all about. So, you know, and I think that
37:24
it's really unfortunate that that that like spiritual
37:26
component puts people off because it's, it really like in
37:29
order to to recover from this thing, we need to have a total
37:34
psychic shift. And I think that that only
37:35
happens really At the spiritual level, right?
37:38
And we're so disconnected and and it's just such an important
37:42
element and I feel like people are just so fearful of talking
37:45
about it, you know, it's unfortunate.
37:48
I also think that substance use disorder and mental health can
37:54
be so isolating. I think that those Diseases.
38:02
Are diseases of isolation and I really believe that we need
38:09
Community Connection connection connection and I 100% agree with
38:17
you. I have a client now, who's been
38:20
a treatment living in a sober house in DC.
38:22
And that was his expectation by The Sober House, 90 and 90.
38:28
Yep, right there on Dupont Circle.
38:30
And that was the very thing. Thank find your people.
38:33
Yeah, because this 30 year old, I get it, I understand it.
38:38
His life has come to a crashing halt.
38:40
He thinks he, as literally come to the end of his existence
38:45
because he has no idea because the culture is out there,
38:49
presenting it that if he can't have a drink.
38:51
Well, let's just say it's not a drink.
38:53
We know that by the time we get to treatment, it's not a drink.
38:56
Right? That he can't have a life.
38:59
Yep, that's so hard. Yeah.
39:01
So painful And if he finds his people, yep.
39:06
It's not going to take 90 meetings, New York City, Raleigh
39:10
New York. They're all over these 20 and
39:13
30-somethings, and they're living a life.
39:16
They never imagined. Yeah, and they realized that we
39:21
can do it without alcohol and drugs and, you know, it do it in
39:26
such a dramatic and mazing way to.
39:28
I mean, that was, you know, I was 26 when I when I went to
39:31
treatment for the first time or it.
39:32
Really the only time and, you know, I was super fortunate and
39:36
I still say, like, I was touched by the hand of God, when I was
39:39
about two weeks in a treatment, I all said and just had this
39:42
shift, this awareness where I said, okay, I can sit here and
39:45
say, my life is over because I can't use these substances.
39:48
How am I going to, you know, what's my wedding going to be
39:50
like, what's my, you know, this that and the other thing that I
39:53
listed off and you know, I couldn't possibly do these
39:56
things without drinking, right. And I also didn't have this
40:00
awareness that I can, I can, you know, The down and out because
40:04
of that or I can just start doing awesome stuff.
40:06
And I started fly-fishing, I started playing more Golf and I
40:09
just like threw myself into all these different hobbies and
40:13
things that I always dreamt about doing, but I didn't do
40:15
because I was drinking by myself in a basement in.
40:18
Boston, you know? So, you know, once I like had
40:21
that kind of shift in perspective, I was like, oh wow,
40:23
this this, you know, life can be amazing and then, you know, I
40:27
still, I go to a ton of concerts and I just do it differently
40:30
now, right? I go with the right people.
40:32
And I don't go to the concert for hours before the concert and
40:35
sit in the parking lot. You know, because nothing good
40:37
is happening there for me, right?
40:39
But then now I can remember the concert which is a whole new
40:42
thing which I never did before. But yeah, I mean, I think,
40:47
especially with the young guys, you know, it's in women as well.
40:51
But, you know, I've primarily worked with a lot more young
40:53
males and and it's just getting them fired up about life again.
40:58
Right? And and whatever it is if it's
41:00
free, diving, spearfishing, fly, fit, whatever.
41:02
Over there into skiing, you know, just getting reconnected
41:05
with that is makes all the difference in the world with
41:08
these young guys. Yeah, great.
41:11
Yep, SuperFriends. With all that, with how amazing
41:14
life can be after recovery. The only people they don't know
41:18
what Joy is, or happiness, is until they've gone through the
41:23
recovery. But again, people just don't
41:26
know what they don't know. Right.
41:28
And so, if there are people out there who have a sense, like,
41:32
maybe, something's not right with my loved one or our family
41:36
system, like, what are some things that are a Telltale sign
41:41
that they would really benefit by working with someone like
41:44
you, like, what are some things that they could have noticed a
41:48
year before? They hit rock bottom or six
41:51
months before they hit rock bottom?
41:53
Were some signs that they need help.
41:57
That's a really good question. What's interesting for me as
42:04
that by the time, I walk in the door for the loved one, that
42:09
loved one knows exactly what's happening Tom and Tom and Tom
42:13
again. And 90-plus percent.
42:21
The loved one in the meeting will say you have had a problem,
42:27
which is often surprising to me because I know how heavy and
42:32
large and wide denial is MHM. And what's interesting is that
42:40
families. When they call me, I ask them.
42:45
How long have you known? It was a problem and inevitably
42:49
the longer they talk to me. The longer we're working through
42:52
the process right in the letters.
42:54
Having conversations the longer, the usage tends to be where it's
43:01
just past three months now. No actually, it's been a couple
43:03
years. No actually, it's more like five
43:05
years. No, actually started in high
43:08
school. Whoa.
43:09
And what I often hear I hear from families.
43:12
Is I wish I'd said something then but I didn't know what to
43:17
say. Yep.
43:19
And one of the things that I know and you all know Is that
43:27
words can be pretty thin, pretty cheap and often ineffective.
43:33
We're never going to convince someone that they need to go get
43:36
help one-on-one. Yeah.
43:39
One-on-one, it will never work the disease whether it's mental
43:42
health, and/or substance use disorder will run circles around
43:47
us. Yep.
43:49
So what I often say to families is Compassion compassion
43:56
compassion, it takes What It Takes and no matter how bad it's
44:03
been. We're going to offer a solution
44:05
today. Yep.
44:07
And who knows? Whether it would have worked in
44:10
years ago. Five years ago, five months ago
44:12
when the family is ready, the teacher arrives, you know, it's
44:17
the same as when the student is ready, the teacher arrives.
44:25
I love it. Well, you know, this has been a
44:26
great conversation and I think you have given up such so much
44:30
great information for families and hopefully they can they can
44:34
you know, reach out to you if they need help and we will have
44:38
all of your information you know in our in our clip in our
44:42
thumbnail on the website. So thank you so much Francis for
44:46
coming in this is always such a pleasure seeing you spending
44:49
time with you and look forward to working with some more
44:53
clients. Swedish.
44:54
Yes. Yes, likewise collaboration.
44:56
Thank you, both so much. Has been a privilege of course.
44:59
Thanks Al.