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The Four's Sacred Longing | Beauty, Grief & Trusting God with Deanna Sudom · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: The gift for beauty is so intuitive.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think fours notice things that others will just walk past.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: The core fear of a four is having no identity or significance, um, just being ordinary or invisible.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's the feeling that others have something I'm fundamentally missing and may never find.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes and often, even in my language, I think it can look like comparison, but it's more grief, mourning the version of myself.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: It has nothing to do with the person, honestly.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think learning to lament in bringing all of the ache to the Lord and not being embarrassed, not feeling you're less than, not feeling that there's something wrong with you.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: And to recognize, to embody really who we've been created to be, and that he did this, he made us.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no mistake here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: It is the core of who we are called to be, to love him and to love people, and that's all we gotta do.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for real life.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, my friend, you have been listening to Deanna Studem's voice almost all year long.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Deanna has been my co-teacher and also a personal discerning sounding board.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: She's also been someone who has helped us find the theological thread in every Enneagram type story this year.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted to give a chance for Deanna to share a little bit more behind the scenes because maybe as you've been listening to Deanna or you're new to her world, then you may not know that originally we met because she came as a coaching client and she did her own wholehearted work.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then she became a certified coach and part of the collective.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now truly she is a person on the team who I rely on a lot for discernment and insight.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm so grateful.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, if you've been listening, Deanna is a type four.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so she's gonna approach this, or we're gonna really approach this a little differently than we have in the past months.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna ask some of those foundational questions, but she gets to share some of her personal story.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, Deanna, thank you for coming back saying yes.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: You've only had three more months and then we're done.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So for now until I come up with my other crazy idea.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, thanks.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oof.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'm taking off my teacher hat.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_03: Feels a little naked under there, but uh I will be happy to share.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It looks beautiful under the hat.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready for you to share.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: I know what's in your heart and your spirit and just your life overflows goodness.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I know this is going to be really beautiful.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So as it's in your your turn to be in the guest seat, so to speak, when we're asking or when we're thinking about the type four, what would you say?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about yourself and what comes to mind first?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: I really like fours actually.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Which is a beautiful thing.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_03: I like me, but more of this seasoned integrated me.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: I probably wouldn't have said that like years ago early in my life for sure, but I do love them now.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I think uh one of the things I most appreciate is depth.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's one thing I often say is he's created me to have depth and not only that, to sit with people in their depth and inhabiting the emotions, not just experiencing them or feeling them.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: It takes a long time actually to get some emotions out of me, but it is constant, it is a constant hum in my body as emotion.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And the the thing I love too is that the gift for beauty is so intuitive.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: I think for us notice things that others will just walk past, uh, light through window, texture of a moment.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: We have some flowers in the front of our house right now, and every time I see them, I'm just like, oh, this beautiful.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think, and I think it stems from the very thing that we look inside of us for.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: We can easily see it everywhere else, and it's so wonderful, almost consuming sometimes, and so it's great to have an outlet for that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think authenticity at all costs.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: I have always been like this.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have trouble usually telling people the real thing.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: I just had a funny story about this recently.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_03: I was I often leave voice messages when I'm driving, which probably isn't the best, safest thing to do.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: But um, somebody was honking at me.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: She was just going to town on her horn, and I had just missed a signal and just it was a little late.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm like responding back to her with confusion, wondering what's going on with calling her names and all kinds of things.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Although I didn't swear at her, which was amazing.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I was leaving this message, and uh and my friend said, I love this most about you because you're always so authentic.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, I was just dying laughing, listening to your message.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: So even though I thought, should I really send this?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: I did anyway.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so I think I would rather be painfully honest than comfortably fake or false.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: So um I think maybe empathy, very easily empathetic when I sit with someone in their pain, it I'm actually in it with them feeling that.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: And like I said before about creativity, I think creativity in the way we do things or even speak or see other people is an expression of getting our emotion out.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's it's what God created us to do is to be creative.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that would be what I think of, first of all, as you ask that.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: You are beautifully authentic and real and genuine and all those things, and so I appreciate you, especially as I lean into your gifts of discernment, because I know you'll shoot straight, and that's uh really valuable, but kindly at the same time, which is important to me.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes I get my feelings hurt when people shoot straight.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you've always done kindly.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: You used a term inhabit feelings, and that kind of leads me to some of the next thought about core fears and desires.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of emotions, and we could give the caveat about subtypes here, because I know that's part of your story, but ultimately unpack that inhabiting feelings, because that that seems big and not maybe language we would use every day, and and maybe not as accessible to every other type out there.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I have to dig into that a little bit and think inhabiting it's almost like there's no separation from it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I when I think about feeling or even, I think about even core fears.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: The core fear of a four is having no identity or significance, um, just being ordinary or invisible.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: And what I thought for almost all of my life, I would say probably, I mean, I just turned 59.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I I would say up to my 50s, I probably thought I was just fundamentally flawed in some way, that there was just always something broken in me that I could never get to.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think because I couldn't distinguish between my feelings and in the way that I inhabit them and live them out in everything that I do, even though it might not be expressed verbally, I just think even often it takes me a long time to cry about things.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_03: I will watch movies to cry or read books or have conversations with people that I know will stir up those emotions in me because it seems like they're such a part of me I can't get them out.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: This is actually really revealing to me right now.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like this is yeah, it's telling me why I do those things and and even anger.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: I often get a comment that I'm so gentle and so peaceful, and I'm like, you don't even know what's going on inside of me most of the time.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and so I love that God's done that in me, that He He has created this space in me that that even gives the appearance of it when I'm not able to get to that space yet.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean it's always my heart to be that, but I can't always get there, if that makes sense.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: What you're not perfect?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I had to bring a little lightness to it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, it does.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you even look at the briefest description, there's no delineation.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to separate your body, facts, and emotion, like it's all tied together, a mesh almost.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And even in just hearing you process and talk through things related to, I just need a good cry, I need to be able to express it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it feels a little bit harder to find the end of the thread because they're all blended together.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And how do I how do I find the end of it?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: How do I actually pull it?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really interesting.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Under under that idea, not having significance, feeling ordinary, invisible, even sometimes.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what's interesting, I think there's a tug of war for of like feeling invisible yet wanting to be seen.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's often a juxtaposition there.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: But what is how is that played out and leaning into the element of authenticity?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So there's not a curated vision, but also how is some of that how is that walked out, especially in this place of where you're looking to be able to not always be staying in the egg, but living in freedom, knowing that that's part of the story, but doesn't have to be the whole story.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, that was a lot of questions.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've gotten really bad about that lately.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm asking too many questions at one.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so real.
• 12:04
  unknown: Okay.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're fine part of this here.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, okay, so for me, as a seven, my instinct is to move away from the eight, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: To reframe it, to plan around it and find the silver lining, right?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you have been able to teach me that the ache is the point while also not staying in it, making it your identity.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I did ask a couple of questions.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: To me, they seem all tied together, and that's part of the thing of it, but maybe we'll start there.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: That sounds good.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: I think it is.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: I it's like this grounded place where I know now that often it is.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's often it is the struggle, it's the ache, it's the thing that's hard, it's um, you know, staying there for a little bit.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like you said, as a seven, you wanna, you wanna just skip right out of there, but that staying in it is not failure.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: And that also has been a curve for me to learn to over the years, is that just because I am, I get stuck in the emotions or can't really see myself out of it in some ways, that it's not a failure, that this is just part of the process of it.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that probably is a good jumping off point for what our passion is as a four.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: And for four, it's envy.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: And not in the traditional sense, kind of of jealousy and envy, I think.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_03: But and I think even I misunderstood it for a long time.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's simply it's not simply wanting what someone else has, it's it's never aimed at others' possessions or things they have, but just longing for the substance of what I see that they have in relationships or experiences.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's the feeling that others have something I'm fundamentally missing and may never find.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: So, in that, in living that out, it's the sense that everyone else arrived with this wholeness that I got left out of.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what I was over here on the side, Lord, you didn't see me over there.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and sometimes and often, even in my language, I think it can look like comparison, but it's more more grief, mourning the version of myself.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: It has nothing to do with the person, honestly, and but my life that feels like it's out of reach.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can I can look at another woman's ordinary life and just ache for it because I sense that there's something missing in me, and not because I want her life specifically, because often I have enough intuition and insight to know she didn't get here really easily.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: There was a lot behind that story, but because it represents ease and belonging that maybe I don't feel sometimes.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's really good.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's true of every four that envy really would be characterized associated to the missing piece and not necessarily external things?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I think that is a common perception or uh explanation or description, even.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I would guess so from the clients that I've had and the friends that I know that are this type.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: And again, you know, nuanced because of uh one wing being favored over another or the subtypes.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I would say the the core of that it would be that yeah, what you said that we it's not possessions or anything of the type, but actually thinking something's missing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, related to that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really important that those two go hand in hand and that connection is made.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: One, it brings up brings light into those dark places.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a step of freedom.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, giving name and language to this insight is really powerful.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's a powerful first step.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the whole step because we don't want to stay there.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: But also that's an element to distinguish between different types as those who have maybe thought that they were a four, but maybe they've just struggled with envy externally of wanting other things because they had a hard life or you know, whatever.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: But to kind of, or even one's desire to be good and right, that perfection label sometimes gets associated with missing piece or something wrong with me.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that language can be really close and are somatics based on interpretation sometimes.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's a critical part, not only in identifying your starting point, but to also go, okay, when I can see that pattern rise up, it's something to name and to ultimately bringing to the Lord and allowing him to partner with you in freedom from that.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So again, thanks for sharing that.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: As I mentioned at the beginning, we started together in 2122 as like one-on-one coaching, guide by the side time.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So you did your own wholehearted journey, and now you're obviously a coach and a person in the collective.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about that arc because I don't think that's it's not been uncommon in your life, to be honest.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I see that for fours who continue to do the work.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is oftentimes the journey, as it can be for many types, but especially that trusted, discerning person who can seemingly hold a lot of things, including maybe harder emotions or tougher moments in life.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've always been a learner, I would say, and quite self-aware.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: I say that humbly, honestly.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: I just have recognized that I am quite aware of what's happening or how I perceive things.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've had a lot of people speak into my life.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_03: So all along, I think you should try this or do that, or one thing the common thing is is um writing, and and still I have not got to that place where I am believing the Lord in that space or trusting that I do it in different ways, but not necessarily a book.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it would this was prefaced even in a very embarrassing story now when I think about it about envy and and how I moved into that place.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like over 20 years ago, I started in this course where it was about leaders and authors, and and I got to the place where I was so excited to begin living out some of these dreams.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the course.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: But the longer it went and I the more I watched the leader in my immaturity, my envy got the best of me, and I really self-sabotaged and didn't end up finishing well because it consumed me so much that I thought I was missing something because I didn't look like her and I wasn't doing it like her.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so, in that it was a great tool to teach me.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: And um, even though I say I say it with tongue in cheek now, and and it's a little bit embarrassing knowing that that's how it worked.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I didn't even recognize it really till a few years later when I started really wanting to grow and think, I think I I need to sit with women because my heart always is that God has redemption on his mind all the time.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And this is the most known quality of God in my life, that he is a redeemer and he's redeemed my life.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I felt the call to as as we started.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it all kind of started and came together and during the pandemic, and I was supposed to help my daughter, and we couldn't hardly get to her because of all of the ridiculous rules that were happening, and and so I took a couple courses and learned how to be a coach.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then I met Amy, and so I just felt like it was marrying what I've done all my life with people and women in particular, and sitting with them in a space where I could I could help them discern what was happening so that they could learn more about what Jesus uh wanted to do in their lives and and how he wanted to heal and redeem them.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: I thought I can't get this gift for me and not give it away to other people.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's that would be kind of that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that there was a certain moment.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_03: There was lots of little moments, and I've had a lot of people over the years speak into my life and affirm me and say, Yes, why don't you try this?
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe in places where I wasn't brave enough to.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: And my husband golden, he's golden.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: And uh he's always been very supportive and and just saying, yes, Dean, like, can't you see that?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Can't you see this is what you could do and this is what you've been made to do?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I am appreciative of all of those voices that the Lord allowed to speak into my life besides him.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I would say that's that's kind of my realization.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: It took a while.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: These things do, and that's why we call it a journey, right?
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I just like to reflect back, even that story is something you shared and gave me early on in our work together and relating to how Envy has shown up.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as you mentioned, that it can bring about these blind sides bring about self-sabotage often.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's related.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I have seen not only you work through that in your life, but so many other things that it's it's hard to imagine.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you're like a completely different person, but I think about some of our early-on conversations and how you have wrestled with the Lord.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: You have fought the good fight.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have continued to ask for Holy Spirit to transform you and step in obedience and name the places that are hard for you and then name them publicly within our group, which is a safe group.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's a safe group that we've um, you know, created a circle of trust, if you will, but you have given that to us and showed, given us the ability then to witness the transformation that happens.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I I want to honor that of like I've seen you say yes to the work, even when it was hard, even when it was unflattering, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: That significance that it flies in the face of the desire for significance when it is unflattering.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, but live into that, and that is actually it actually makes you more beautiful, I'm gonna say, and our friendship more beautiful and rich, because you've walked that out and you're living it out.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I just want to take a moment to celebrate where we were and not like you were in this awful, horrible place.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: It just it's just seeing you rise up and own your voice and own your offering and value to not only your local community, but at large and certainly our collective group.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, just want to celebrate you for a minute.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: I also wanted to say I I think that the trick, because I think about you, Amy, and I think 20 years ago I could have been in the same position with you because you're brilliant and you have you're so creative and your mind is just so fascinating.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what the you know what it's been in the healing of that place in me and even in the what that looks like for envy to flip, took a really journey of gratitude where I just I felt like the Lord said, just be grateful for things when you see those things, give gratitude for them and bless them, bless and pray for these people.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started doing that and I still do it, but what I think it's turned to even is sometimes fascination because I'll look at you and I'll go, wow, like I'm just fascinated with the way your brain works.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I just think I think probably the more and more I know God's character and how he's created people, it has helped that move in that direction.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: But I just am like, that's fascinating to me.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I'll say that to a friend of mine and she'll think I'm being a smart elk, but I'm really not.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, no, that's fascinating.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that is where I can see that God's healed a lot of that in me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, not to say it doesn't rise up, I am definitely still very human.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: But that's it.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's like take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I that that's a place where I know I need to be extra particular.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like any weakness, this is where the enemy can get us, can chirp us up up, and just the temptation to compare in a way that lacks celebration.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the thing I've seen most.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: If I could even like, yes, gratitude, but you've taken comparison and turned it to celebration of others.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: I feel that, I feel that support.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I laugh, you know, when you say fascinating, even because I'm like, oh boy, it's a joke.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, like it's a circus in here.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you would say it's fascinating, and then we can laugh together about it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: But and all do, I see you celebrate it in our collective, celebrate it in the women that you work with and the people that you serve with in your community.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I that's remarkable transformation.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from practice too, which is important to note here.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to skip ahead because we we do talk about these conversations ahead of time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: We try to do give questions, and I don't always stick to the script.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but also we expand the script sometimes, and it's one of those days.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love to just talk about get some words in us, um Holy Spirit-inspired, God-ordained scripture in us today, and give us from your experience, but then also the force that you've worked with, just how scripture has really spoken to some of these places where a four feels flawed or is prone to envy and not recognizing the beauty that is already there.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm just gonna stick with one and I I feel like I'm supposed to read it, so please do.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: I'll tell a little bit of backstory to this.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: When I was first a baby Christian, I went to a women's conference and I went into the prayer room alone.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not ever afraid of doing things alone, and so I just thought, I need to, I need prayer.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't even really know what that meant at that time.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: I was pretty, pretty baby.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: And there was intercessors in there that had me read Psalm 139 out loud, inserting my name in it, and I just was weeping like a baby in that room as I was recognizing.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think about David writing this and as he wrote it for praise, but he wrote it as a king, and I think possibly he's a type four, maybe that's like I wouldn't be shocked if we get to heaven and we find that out if we care, if we care, if we care, and I think at the time he probably wrote it in response to an accusation or opposition from the enemy, and but just saying this is who our God is, he's omniscient and he is omnipresent, he's with us all the time, and he purposefully created us.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: And so I just wanted to read Psalm 139.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's a little bit, but I think it's worth it, don't you?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: I would love that.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: Me, yes, a hundred percent.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Psalm 139.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_03: You have searched me, Lord, and you know me.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know when I sit and when I rise, you perceive my thoughts from afar, you discern my going out and my lying down.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: You are familiar with all my ways.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Before a word is on my tongue, you, Lord, know it completely.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: You hand me in behind and before, and you lay your hand upon me.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_03: Where can I go from your spirit?
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Where can I flee from your presence?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: If I go up to the heavens, you are there.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: If I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there your hand will guide me.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: Your right hand will hold me fast.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: If I say, surely the darkness will hide me, and the light become night around me.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: Even the darkness you will not be dark to you.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: The night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_03: For you created my inmost being, you knit me together in my mother's womb.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Your works are wonderful, I know that full well.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place, when I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: How precious to me are your thoughts, God, how vast is the sum of them.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Were I to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: When I awake, I am still with you.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: If only you, God, would slay the wicked, away from me you who are bloodthirsty.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: They speak of you with evil intent, your adversaries misuse your name.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_03: Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord, and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: I have nothing but hatred for them.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_03: I count them my enemies.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Search me, God, and know my heart.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Test me and know my anxious thoughts, see if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Amen and amen.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's good.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if that doesn't cover it and do the job, I don't know what would I think that's so good.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I obviously it leaned so deeply personal for you.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I I'd love to just like pick on this one thing because I've heard from some fours that it's overused that scripture in general for all the types.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: But can you bring it back to us of the personal value of it and the goodness of it and how you can't overuse scripture?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Scripture says that his word does not return void and it will accomplish the purposes he set it out for.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I believe it is alive, and every time we read it, it's a different thing.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think even um where it talks about hating those that he hates.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember when I first read that, and it seemed like, can I even say that out loud?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like that sometimes is real and it feels real.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but to say it, I just think the honesty, and I think there's a reason why it's one that everybody keeps going back to goes back, you know.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: There is a reason we do that, and to recognize to embody really who we've been created to be, and that he did this, he made us, and there's no mistake here.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: It is the core of who we are called to be, to love him and to love people, and that's all we gotta do.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love that.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for taking time to speak to that for a moment because you will lead us at different times in the collective with uh prayer time, and you typically open with scripture and read a passage, and then we talk about what stands out to us.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: At least that's for sure what we did last time.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just amazing how one passage can be illuminated uniquely for each type.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, not taking anything out of context or meeting or twisting it, but how a phrase or a word lands in the moment that we need it and speaking to the circumstances we find ourselves in each uniquely and differently.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: I I loved just having you read that to us and just the beauty of it for me as a seven.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: As we finish up here, I'd love for you to speak to the woman who is feeling weary because that is the conversation I'm hearing a lot.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe the one who is exhausted from feeling deeply or trying to sort out these emotions they embody or that they're they're sitting in all the time.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: But just speak to the gift of who she is and just wear that that burden can no longer be so heavy because it's just part of her gifting and who she's created to be.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, this can make us go really long, but I'll try and keep this short.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think though, I think I talked about a lot of the things within here.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: I think finding gratitude and not what's the thing, the term now that's the all the rage, spiritual bypassing.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's not spiritual bypassing, not toxic positivity, but just deliberately and intentionally noticing what's present and beautiful in your moments, even currently, even in the deepest depths that I've walked through in my life, I've been able to seek out something that's beautiful.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think it it takes intention.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's not easy to do in those spaces and and not something we can do all the time or every day.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think learning to lament in bringing all of the ache to the Lord and not being embarrassed, not feeling you're less than, not feeling that there's something wrong with you because you're doing that and being honest.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, really honestly, when you think about scripture, how honest and real and and true it is, that is how he wants us to come to him.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: This is how he wants us to be in relationship with him.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't change because we have a deep personality type that feels all the things, and um, but in this way to express it and really looking for that place to be able to express it, I think, is um is a big deal.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: So have one honest conversation with somebody this week, one that gets to the depth of you and with somebody that's safe, that somebody that you know will hold that space for you, and that you're able to just tell something that maybe doesn't need to be a deep, dark secret.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Just say, Oh, you know what I did?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: This was so ridiculous.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I think in that I've just learned to to be real and and uh and it's really brought healing in those places.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, and as I said, read Psalm 139 and put your name in there to speak it out loud, make it personal, yeah, make it personal.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So good, Deanna.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being you, a beautiful you, and sharing honestly from your perspective as living this out as a four, but also the people that you've ministered to along the way.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's been so good.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm grateful so far for this year, and I hope you plan on being here next month for the Enneagram 3.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: It is in the plans.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Deanna.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is so great.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your step point.