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The Mandalorian Chapter 23: The Spies · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to the ned Palty.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: This is Nick and Ostasy, you lead editor and writer
• 0:09
  Speaker 3: on mal Shadow Lord, and you're listening to aggressive negotiations.
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Welcome back to your favorite Star Wars podcast on the
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: nerd Party network that you just can't get enough of
• 0:26
  Speaker 4: aggressive negotiations. I am Jedi Master John Mills, and I'm
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: joined by my esteemed friend and venerable co host, Jedi
• 0:34
  Speaker 4: Master Matthew Rushing as we get ready to go into
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: chapter twenty three of the Mandalorian the Spies, and this
• 0:44
  Speaker 4: is going to be I think a very interesting discussion.
• 0:47
  Speaker 4: But before we get to that discussion, of course, go
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: over to the nerd Party dot com slash contact reach
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: out to the show there, find us on ex Twitter
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: at the Jedi Masters, find the network at join nerd
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: Party on x and you could also find the network
• 1:01
  Speaker 4: as the nerd Party on Facebook and Instagram. So, Matt,
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: here we are a penultimate episode of the third season.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: You're getting ready to go into it. We've made it
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: through the Lizo episode Guns for Hire. Where were your
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: expectations for this one?
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: I think coming into this one, I didn't really know
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: what to expect. The season had been incredibly unexpected, sometimes
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: in good ways and sometimes in ways that left me
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: shaking my head or scratching my head, just kind of
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: wondering what is going on? And I'd say, coming into
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: this episode, I was hoping that the last two episodes
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: would really bring us home. And with the way that
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: this episode starts, the way that it brings you in,
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: and it utilizes those things that were a frustration previously
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: to then build an entire episode here and end into
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: the next one.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'm recording again, the end that you would have
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: hoped for.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, no, you're totally fine. No, John is recording again.
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: So it took all of those things right that frustrated
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: us at the beginning of the season. Uh, kind of
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: drove us a little bit crazy. And yet yeah, what
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: it does with them here and the way that it
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: weaves the story together, inter working you know, all of
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: these plot lines in a way that feels so organic.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: I think one, I remember coming out of this episode
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: thinking why weren't they doing this the whole season? And
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: then two just being like, oh my goodness, what a
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: fantastic episode bringing all this lore that they've been working
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: on for you know, basically three seasons now at this
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: point and just bringing it all together. I mean that's
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: where I remember being, you know, after I watched this
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: episode for the first time, just kind of flabbergasted at
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: what they had been able to do after the frustrations
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: that we had had. It felt like the stops and
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: starts Almost of this season. It's like it would feel
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: like it was going and then it almost would like
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: grind a halt, and then it would get going again,
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and then itraw, We're back, you know, with the Lizo episode,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: and so this was just like.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: If anything, this was like a Bonde.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: To a Star Wars fans soul in the way that
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it was constructing, the way that it was the war
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and even just some of earlier the things that we hope.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: To have literally coming straight out of you know, the
• 4:10
  Speaker 4: whole Lizo thing is like what what what is going on?
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: What is happening here?
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: Because like you're saying, stops and starts, it's almost like
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: this has been a manic season where it's.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Like I don't know what I'm about to go into exactly,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: and when I encounter this, I love this episode. I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: even love I can't tell.
• 4:32
  Speaker 4: You how much I love I g twelve, and I
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: still laugh every time I see it of Grogu getting
• 4:40
  Speaker 4: in there no no, yes, yes, yes, like and just
• 4:45
  Speaker 4: going along. It's like, Yes, this is what I'm looking for.
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: Is I'm looking for that cute moment with Grogu. I'm
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: looking for moving forward and character development. I'm looking for. Yes,
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: if you're going to bring back Mauf Gideon, thank you
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: for bringing in other imperials so that it doesn't play
• 5:09
  Speaker 4: as if he's the only bad guy left in the
• 5:12
  Speaker 4: Imperial network, and even opening it.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: On Corossan with a brilliantly.
• 5:21
  Speaker 4: Designed lower levels of Corossan that just you look at
• 5:28
  Speaker 4: it and you say, oh, Lucas would have loved to
• 5:32
  Speaker 4: have done that. If he had that moment back, he'd
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: love to go back and do it this way, I bet,
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: because look at all of that mood that's established there,
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: and the secret communication and then going into the Shadow Council.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: And since we are recording this one after we've seen
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: the Mandalorian and Grogu, you said it before we even
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: started recording, Hey, don't I know a couple of these
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: people better know?
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that that's the thing that I just
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: find fantastic here is that what they set up is
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: so fascinating. I mean, we've got connections obviously to the
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: sequel trilogy that are happening here with Brenda Hawks, We've
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: got the connections here with what Gideon's been trying to
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: do the whole time. We've got Pellian, you know, who
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: is making excuses for why Thron isn't there and trying
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: to hold things together until he gets back, you know,
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: which is going to tie into Ahsoka. I mean, like,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: there's so much that's happening here, and there's so much
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that's fascinating here, right This interplay between these leftover imperial
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: warlords in the way in which they're jockeying for position
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: with one another, and even just the way too then
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: that Gideon is able to get everybody on his side
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to kind of like move away from bowing at the
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: feet of an absent Admiral Thron and everybody to follow him. Now,
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: it was fascinating, you know, and I think what it
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: does is it just really sets up this villain who
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: truly is somebody who needs to be taken down. By
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the end of the season. That's what we want to see,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: especially with what we hear with what they're trying to
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: do well.
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: I would love just with the shading of the Mandalorian
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: and Grogu again. I think I said this when we
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: were talking about the movie. Lucasfilm Publishing needs to to
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: really pick this up because Coin and I forget the
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: other guy's name, who are in the Mandalorian and Grogu movie.
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: They're the ones talking about taking advantage of things. You know,
• 7:39
  Speaker 4: You've got the one guy from the beginning of Mandalorian
• 7:40
  Speaker 4: and Grogu who's like, hey, you know, they're just waiting
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: for us to come back, which he echoes in the
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: Mandalorian and Grogu. And then you have Coin who's like, hey,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: this is our opportunity to make some cash man, and
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: you have playin saying calling him out and saying, you know,
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: random strikes on trade routes isn't the way to go.
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: And then I make a connection to the Mandalorian and
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: Grogu because that one imperial warlord. The people are all
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: saying that the trade routes are unstable, they can't and
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: you suddenly realize those two guys were playing two ends,
• 8:15
  Speaker 4: two sides of the same coin.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: The one guy was saying, you need my protection.
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: You got to give you more tribute while his own
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: counterpart is attacking the very trade routes that are making
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: their lives difficult, so they're actually benefiting each other. They're
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: squeezing from both ends. I'm like, this is exactly the
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: type of EU book lore that I.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Need right now.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: And what I love is you calling out the Shadow Council,
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: just those two guys, those few lines, and then extrapolating
• 8:47
  Speaker 4: it to Mandalorian and Grogu. I'm like, nobody I saw
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: that movie with will make all of these connections.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: That's how you do a tie in.
• 8:58
  Speaker 4: It's not necessary to enjoy the thing, but you and
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: me keying on it. Wow, look at what we've look
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: at what is coming through with our imagination.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: Here well, and I think you know, this is one
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: of the things that both you and I had talked
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: about from the beginning with the new novels that they
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: were putting out before the Force A. Wiggans came out
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: right the Aftermath series and those type of things, and
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: we were frustrated because it felt like they weren't really
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: giving us anything, you know, they were just kind of
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: dancing around all of this stuff. And part of that
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: is I think this is the thing the shows like
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: The Mandalorian and Ahsoka and what we get in like
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the animated stuff and all of these things that really
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: still have Dave's fingerprints on. The goal was to have
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: a continuing thread, as All Star Wars does, and when
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you didn't know with the sequel trilogy where that thread
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: was going to go, there was no way you could
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: have well placed, you know, tie in books and all that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, though, I think that because we
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: are where we are with the Mandalorian Grogu coming out,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: there is that opportunity to go back in and fill
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: in a lot of these details that help explain things
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: about the world of the Mandalorian up until you know,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: the end of season three. That could do a lot
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: of that legwork. You know that could and not in
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: the sense that like if you don't get this, if
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: you don't read this, you're not going to enjoy it.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: But it's the kind of books that we always talk
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: about where it's like, oh, after I read that, it
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: helps me to appreciate the movie in a different way,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: or it helps me to watch the television show with
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: a new perspective. And that's what you want from those
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: type of books. You know, tie in fiction, and so yeah,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I mean this the idea of this Shadow Collective in
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: the and again, the way that is bringing all of
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the elements that we've been getting about the Imperial Remnant
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: finally together here is fantastic. But again, I just have
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: to call the editing of this episode and the way
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: they weave all the stories together is the way the
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: entire season should have been edited together, so that all
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: of this stuff worked in concert with one another instead
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: of grinding to a halt the story at certain points.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: And man, if you had done that, what we get here,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: And that's actually I think what kind of gets me
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: hope for the possibility of you know, the Mandalorian Grogu
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: coming back from maybe a season four or something like that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: It's like, I think they understand how to do it better,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: and they're not necessarily like these two episodes seem to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: be that they're not afraid to do the more inner
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: cutting of storylines and having them kind of weave together
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: as most television does these days. And so again with
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: what they course on the Shadow Collective and then weaving
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: in the story with the Mandalorians, it's it really is.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: It's phenomenal stuff. Like this is like this is like
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: we're back to peak Mando.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I agree. I think that what can also help.
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: A lot for appreciation of this season and the larger
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: arc as a whole is I think that one of
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: the issues is we all acknowledge those two episodes in
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: Book of Boba Fett belonged here in this season period,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: and staying stuck with the idea it's got to be
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: eight episodes is silly because imagine, if you will, you
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: take the Book of Boba Fett and Mando season three
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: and you mash them together and you watch them in
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: quick enough succession, which for this rewatch I did. I
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: watched with my kid Book of Boba Fett and then
• 13:03
  Speaker 4: Mando season three, and when they play close together, they
• 13:07
  Speaker 4: play really well.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: And I think that that is.
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: Even more of a testament to what you're talking about
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: about the editing, is they took pieces and they put
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: them in the wrong places, and they stretch things out
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: while at the same time compressing things too much. Like
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: if that makes sense, Like it's it's frustrating because I
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: think that one of the problems I have with this episode,
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: and it'll play into the next episode as well. Although
• 13:32
  Speaker 4: not really like the next episode, we know what's coming,
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: but I would have wanted more about the spies hinted
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: at and stretched out through the season and grow little
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: scenes here and there, because I get all of this
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: truncated stuff in this episode and it's neat, but my
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: entire sense is, oh, I got barely any time with
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: these guys. Hey everyone, this is going too fast.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I think it's a nominal point. And you know, it's
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: one of those things again where when rewatching the season,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: it truly is one of those things where it's like,
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I don't think any of this is bad. Really, what
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it just needs to be done is to be re
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: edited together in a more interweaving and cohesive way so
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: that the storylines flow into one another instead of you know,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: stop start, stop start, you know, and and it's that
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it's almost like this season feels like it's you're stuck
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: in rush off or traffic until you get to these
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: last two episodes, and then you know, you get past
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that one point and all of a sudden, traffic just
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: speeds up back to normal and you're like, what the
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: heck are y'all stopped for? You know, that's exactly what
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the season's like.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: Well, or I think it feels like it.
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: It is truly like a traffic cham like you're saying,
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: but there's been an accident, it's not a fatal one.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: It's okay.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: You get past it, and then everybody speeds up as
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: if they're going to make up for all of the
• 15:06
  Speaker 4: lost time in the next five minutes after they pass
• 15:09
  Speaker 4: the jam, and you're and meanwhile you're sitting there like, oh.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Hey, no, can we just can we just drive?
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: I want to ask you, though, very specifically, about the
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: use of the volume here. I think that there is
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: some imbalanced volume here. I think that the stuff on
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: Navarro looks fantastic. I think the lighting works really well.
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: I think that it looks like they're really outdoors and
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: Navarro and Navarro is a big place, and all of
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: these sorts of things. But when I get to and
• 15:44
  Speaker 4: I'm going on the surface of Mandolor, it doesn't play
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: as well as it should. This is one of those
• 15:52
  Speaker 4: ones where we're far enough in that you get that
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: question of I thought we'd sort of mastered this volume thing.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 15:59
  Speaker 4: Any new tech, any visual effects tech, has its highs
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: and lows, ups and downs, what have you. It's just
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: one of those things though, where some of the wow
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: moments are lessened by the fact that it looks like
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: a bunch of people standing on a sound stage.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: With Yeah, I mean objective.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: It looks like rear projection too many times. H And
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think the vast limitations of
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the volume become incredibly clear here when you know, you
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: have these characters and they're supposed to be on this
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: vast landscape, but it never feels like the vast landscape.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: It just feels like they're in the you know, forty
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: by forty circle that they have for the volume, and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: there's only so far they can move, There's only so
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: much they can do. And I mean, I think this
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: is where you look at like the manner Laurian and Grogu.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: It's a film. They had all the money to build.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: That swamp set feels incredibly real and lifelike. You think
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of and Or where they built that, that whole city
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: that and Or's from, right, and it feels incredibly real
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: and vibrant. And it's almost like that's one of the
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: things that you kind of needed here. You needed to
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: be able to build vast sections of you know, the
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: ground of Mandalor, and then you also probably just needed
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: a bigger budget to be able to really pull off,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: you know, this this sled thing that the Mandalorians are
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: on to make that feel more real in the way
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: that you would want. So it's one of those places
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: where it's like they truly are exceeding their grasp and
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: what they can pull off in the amount of time
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: they have. And I think in that way, I can
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: forgive that, you know, because I'm not too frustrated by it,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: but one hundred percent with you, it's like, yes, this
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: is clearly one of the places where you just see
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: the limitations of only leaning into something like the volume
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to create a show.
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: I would even offer that you can overcome the volumes
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: limitations by taking a step back and putting everybody in
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: a blue room or a green room like episode three,
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: and just tape stuff on the floor and say, okay,
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: you can sprint as far as you need to in
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: this shot.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: You can jump up here.
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: We're gonna put some phae blocks up here, and we'll
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: just take care of it and post again cost time factors.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: But there's almost a sense where I've been sitting here complaining, Hey,
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: we're constraining ourselves to eight episodes. But part of that
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: constraint is the fact that we burn time that we
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: don't need to burn on certain things that are obviously
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: brought in from the rangers, of the new report that
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: was shut down, all of that type of stuff. But
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: it's almost like, you know what, I'd rather them have
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: done a six episode season and pull all the stops
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: out for this mandelor part rather than eight episodes, and
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: let's do what we can.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: No man, I agree with that, and I think, you know,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: I really look. One of the things I wanted to
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: ask you about is that we finally get the story
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: behind the story of what happened the night of a
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: thousand tiers, and Bo finally confesses exactly what happened on
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: that night, and you know why she feels so responsible
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: to fix what she sees as being the ultimate mistake
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: she made. And so I wanted to ask you just
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: how you felt about that full revelation of her story
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: and how it played out her and then of course
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: the rest of Mandalor.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: I mean, when she relays the story, I'm not entirely
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: certain what other like who would have made a different decision.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: Give me the Dark Saber and I will spare your world. Well, yeah,
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: she made the moral choice in that moment. She made
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: the moral choice to hand over the Dark Saber and say,
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: okay you and the.
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: Only foolish thing is believing evil.
• 20:29
  Speaker 4: It's sort of the Tarkan conundrum where Tarkan is telling Lea,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: you gotta tell me where the rebel bass is, tell
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: me where it is.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna blow up your home world and she.
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: Says dantuine and he says, okay, cool, blow up Aldron anyway.
• 20:42
  Speaker 4: She says what and he just turns around and says,
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: You're far too trusting. And it's like, I could see
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: Gideon doing that thing, but I feel sympathy for her,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: while at the same time caught in that moment of well,
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: what else did you think when we were talking about
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: Mandalorian and Grogu You mentioned about the scorpion, right, well
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: you have the it's always going to be a scorpion.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: It's going to bite you, it's going to sting you.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, what did you expect Gideon to do in
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: that circumstance? And he was basically Gideon was going to
• 21:20
  Speaker 4: do what he did no matter.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: What, which even is still Yeah, I don't know, man.
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's like my question back to you would
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: be a lot of this explains why the Mandalorians are
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: not really participatory in the original trilogy, like why they
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: sort of go dark sort of the way you know, Oh, hey,
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: Ezra isn't part of it. We took him out of
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: the galaxy so that he couldn't be a factor. Do
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: you think that the explanation about what happened with Mandalor.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Works?
• 21:57
  Speaker 4: Do you get the sense that Mandalor was truly that
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: much of a threat to the Empire's ability to control
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: things just divorce anything from rebels or anything like that.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: You're cash who comes in. This is your first time
• 22:12
  Speaker 4: really getting any sort of history of Mandalor. Do you
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: think that the story is told with the proper amount
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: of scale and impact that you go, yeah, I know
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: why he did it.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Look at how dangerous they are.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things that is going to
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: play into that will be, you know, basically the end
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: of this episode where they run into a trap at
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: a trap. Yeah, but you see that even with the
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: updated armor that he is given as troopers, right, that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: it's still not as good as full best gar and
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you see all the tricks of the trade that all
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: of these Mandalorians have and their fighting techniques and there
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you know, all of these weapons that had been utilized
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to combat Jedi, you know, back in the day.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: And I think you do get a real sense of
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: of how dangerous Mandalorians are when they're united behind a
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: cause in this and so I think that that is
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: really good. And especially you know, again you get that
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: whole scene there we're not they're on there, you know,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: sales skiff uh. And you know, you get paw Visla
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: and axe Wolves who are playing the tabletop game and
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: you know, they start a fight basically, and and what
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: does it take. It takes you know, Grogu stepping in
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and being like no, which is great for his growth.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: It you know, really shows you know that he learned
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: a lot again with his time with Skywalker and all that.
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's like, I think that this
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: season has been building towards this idea for us to
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: get into our minds of Yes, if the these people
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: could put aside some of their differences, right, they could
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: be an incredibly unstoppable force. And that's the thing that
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: leads you, you know, as we bring this episode to
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: a close and they're able to escape, it's like, are
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: they going to be able to find a way out
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: of this and work together the way they need to
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: to bring down this imperial threat that not only is
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: threatening the Mandalorians, but if you know, Gideon is able
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: to get his way, it's gonna be bad for everyone involves.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: And so yeah, I mean, I think that they do
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: a good job of helping you to understand the brokenness
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that the Mandalorians felt after the Night of a Thousand
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Tears and how it scattered them. But also, I mean,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: you just you realize there aren't you know, hundreds of
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: thousands of them left, you know, there are maybe thousand
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: of them left, maybe you know hundreds of them left, right,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: And so you can kind of understand in many ways
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: why they would have stayed in hiding after what happened.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: So I don't know, I think it does a good job.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: But do you feel the same Do you feel like
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that this gives you what you need? If you were
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: a Normy just watching.
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: This, I think most likely the Normies were a little
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: confused by this. It would have been better to have
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: segments of this explained through the course of like a
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: half an episode or larger conversations stretched out through the season.
• 25:57
  Speaker 4: Even I think that there's even a question of, you know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 4: if Mandalori is supposed like, there are too many questions
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: that are left or that come up because of the
• 26:09
  Speaker 4: storytelling here, and it's a script level thing.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: It can't be fixed.
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: I think Ricky Fema Yaiowa, I think that's how you
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: pronounce it's less same apologies if I it's tough for
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: me to say. I think as a director, he does
• 26:24
  Speaker 4: a great job juggling things. I think he does a
• 26:27
  Speaker 4: great job moving the story along fast enough that I
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: have these questions really in retrospect. But I think that
• 26:34
  Speaker 4: for the casual fans, this is a little bit too
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: much lore at once. If you stretched it out more
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: like if they had had a three episode arc for
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: the finale, like a true three episode arc for the finale,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: I think you could have gotten the casuals.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: On board a lot more easily. Instead of compressing it
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: this way.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: I think you're accidentally or not making a declaration, Hey,
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: this is for the hard course, and you can't do that.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: You got to make it accessible to everybody. So I
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: think it's a little bit way I think accessible that.
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Your idea of having a three part finale just goes
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: to show that really, if you had cut out all
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: the Lizo stuff, you know, and the other stuff which
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: is interesting but not really important, what was more important
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: is focusing on the Mandalorian story. If you'd done that
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: in that you know, third episode from the end of
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: the season, I think you would have done exactly what
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: we're talking about, and it would have brought that home
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: in a way that would have been even more accessible
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: to the the everyday fan.
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: And then it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Would have been even more rewarding as the uber fan,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: right because I think you would have been able to
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: really build into that lore. And like you said, in
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: some ways, you have three whole episodes for this to
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: sit in and the and the other part about this
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: too is that and one of the things I do
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: have to give them credit for is that this episode
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: in the finale are longer episodes. So it's like they
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: didn't just say, oh, we're gonna stay within our same timeframe.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: We realize we actually do need to allow this story
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: to breathe a little bit more, uh, and so therefore
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: we are not going to rush through what needs to
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: happen here again, We're going to give space for these
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: scenes to breathe. And I think that was a wise
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: choice here. And your suggestion of just utilizing utilizing that
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: that previous episode in the way that you you you
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: mentioned it just would have been so much stronger, you know,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: because we don't. We don't really utilize that episode until
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: like what the last five minutes to really get to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: the point that allows us to jump into this. It's just,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a frustration, and it really I think
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: ends with us feeling the weight of the rest of
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the wasted space of the season. And yet at the
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: same time it can't take away from my utter enjoyment
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: for this episode and the and the and the way
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: it ends where it's just like, oh my gosh, we
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: kind of are in that spot where you love to
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: be at the end of the season. How do our
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: heroes get out of this?
• 29:31
  Speaker 4: You know?
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Like? Uh, And so I don't know, what would you
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: what do you think you'd rate the Spies?
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: I will say that I will wind up coming in
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: at A three and a half specifically because I think
• 29:49
  Speaker 4: that the getting to know the Spies, getting warmed up
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: to the Spies.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Is still too quick. It feels jumped. I think that.
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: They're doing the best that they can with the script
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: that they have, which is a well written script. It's
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: just that that little part is just so messy, and
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: so I come in at a three and a half.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to be at a four with it.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Can hundred percent understand where you're coming from, and you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I totally respect it. But I think that this episode
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: just becomes kind of such a breath of fresh air
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: after especially you know, Guns for Hire, and it just
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: revs my Star Wars engine, like, oh, this is what
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: I want, you know. So yeah, I'm going to give
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it a good, solid four, which you know. The sad
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: part about this is we've talked about It's like, dude,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: this could have been like a five easily if the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: rest of the season had built to it in a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: way that just felt more cohesive.
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: Completely agree, but I also agree that people should reach
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: out to you online and discuss this episode that I
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: want you to talk to.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: You find all of our social media under the name
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: Matt Rushing zero two. So if I'm on a platform
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: that's my name and I'd love to interact with you,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: you can also find me here on the network on
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: a show called Outposts, talking about every single chapter the
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Harry Potter series, one chapter at a time.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Over on the.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: TFM network the System two Club. John's a frequent guest
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: over there. Of course we have our crossovers. We just
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: talked about the Mandalorian grogu together, so check that episode out,
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: plus a lot of great star trek talk over there
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: with my good friend Chris Jones about lots of the
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: different series you know, D Space nine and Voyager and
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Enterprise in Strange New Worlds. So you can check all
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: those shows out. But John, if people wanted to catch
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: up with you, where would they find you.
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: Well, you can find me as Kessel Junkie out there
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: on the wilds of the Internet. I sorry, blogging again
• 32:00
  Speaker 4: from time to time at Castle Junkie dot com. And
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: you can find me out there on letterbox and Goodreads.
• 32:08
  Speaker 4: That's where I have the most amount of fun. And
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: right here on the network you can find me co
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: hosting a show called house Lights with Tristan Raddell and
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: Darren Moser, where at some point we will find a
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: director that we all love beginning to end of whatever
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: segment of films that we're watching that will all love.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Equally the same.
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: But Matt, I think that right now they are getting
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: ready to start movie night back at the Jedi Temple,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: and it's going to be a humdinger of a film
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: that we're watching as we watch a biography of Borsk Fhalia.
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: So I think it's time to close these negotiations.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: John, negotiations are closed.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party.