Latest / Collectors MD Features / #27: How I Manipulated My Brother To Keep Funding My Gambling Addiction | Nothing's Off The Table

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#27: How I Manipulated My Brother To Keep Funding My Gambling Addiction | Nothing's Off The Table · Collectors MD Features

0:04
Welcome back to another episode. Nothing's Off
0:07
The Table. We got a gambler in the house, ladies
0:10
and gents. Recovered. Recovered gambler. Recovering.
0:14
Recovering gambler. Alyx, thank you so much for
0:18
joining us today. We have a very interesting
0:20
one today. Alyx has a company called Collectors
0:25
MD. in the collectibles industry, sports cards,
0:29
memorabilia, et cetera, et cetera. We're going
0:31
to get into that and the whole topic of is it
0:33
gambling? Is it not gambling? We're going to
0:35
unpack everything today. But Alyx is also an
0:40
alumni of Right Choice Recovery, who we so graciously
0:44
love because they sponsor the podcast. They help
0:46
us keep spreading the message of hope. So shout
0:48
out Rob and Right Choice Recovery. You were a
0:52
casino gambler. You were a sports gambler, which
0:55
is really what brought you to your knees. Yeah.
0:59
Tell us about your last day gambling, bro. Well,
1:02
first of all, LJ, thanks so much for having me.
1:04
This is surreal. You know, if you told me three
1:08
years ago when I was in the throes of my addiction
1:10
that I'd be sitting here in a live studio doing
1:14
a podcast with somebody of your stature, I would
1:17
tell you you're crazy, right? We all know how
1:19
it is when we're... At that feeling where we
1:21
feel like we hit rock bottom, it doesn't feel
1:24
like, you know, we have much left in the tank.
1:27
So to really be given this opportunity to start
1:31
a new chapter is really, it's just humbling and
1:36
gratifying in so many ways. And when folks like
1:39
yourself invite me to join them on sets like
1:43
this, opportunities like this, again, it's just,
1:45
it's a very surreal feeling and I'm very grateful.
1:48
With that. my last date uh of gambling was in
1:53
september of 2024 and it was actually a relapse
1:56
and not many people know about this relapse because
1:59
it was after i had already graduated from right
2:02
choice and so um it wasn't necessarily you know
2:08
a rock bottom moment or like you know everything
2:11
is going sideways like i was able to sort of
2:17
gather myself and ultimately self -excluded for
2:20
the maximum of five years in new jersey at the
2:22
time but essentially what happened was i i hadn't
2:25
gambled in over a year and a half uh it was april
2:29
2023 was really right my rock bottom moment um
2:32
and i was in a you know a moment of vulnerability
2:35
the apps caught me off guard and lured me in
2:39
offered me a deposit match of some sort i you
2:43
know succumbed and next thing i knew I was trying
2:47
to play blackjack on one of the apps that I frequented
2:50
for many years and I wasn't able to get in. Lo
2:55
and behold, I had been locked out of my account
2:59
or at least the live component of the app because
3:03
of a chargeback that I had initiated back in
3:06
April of 2023. So it was like a bait and switch.
3:09
They sucked me in. They were like, we'll match
3:11
$2 ,000. So I deposited it and then it was locked
3:15
in the account. And so, of course, what does
3:17
that do to the mind of a gambler? It put me on
3:19
tilt. So next thing I knew, I'm on another app
3:22
trying to chase the loss that I didn't even lose
3:24
gambling. I just lost it because of previous
3:27
occurrences, previous occurrences tied to the
3:30
gambling, which is insane, right? Rob talks about
3:32
this a lot. Advanced insanity, right? We know
3:35
in the moment, this is crazy. What am I doing?
3:39
I'm going to lose, but we do it anyway, right?
3:41
So a couple of weeks passed and I was up. up
3:45
and down and eventually it got to a point where
3:48
i i sort of had that moment of you know power
3:54
like i felt like i had the power back temporarily
3:56
and i was like i got to embrace this moment and
3:58
self -exclude so i did and so i haven't gambled
4:01
since then this again was september of 2024 The
4:05
more interesting story, the more compelling story
4:08
is really April of 2023, which was right before
4:11
I entered treatment at Right Choice. And I'm
4:13
happy to talk about that too, but I would love
4:15
to hear about that. Yeah. So I've talked about
4:18
this quite a bit publicly. I have a podcast.
4:22
We've done almost 70 episodes, like I was telling
4:24
you before we started rolling here. So I've shared
4:27
my story many times, feel very comfortable sharing
4:30
it. And so my wife was away on a bachelorette
4:33
party. one of her best friends. And I was in
4:37
the throes of my addiction, right? Like I was
4:38
coming off of one of the lowest points of my
4:42
life towards the end of 2022, where I had basically
4:46
thrown away everything. But, you know, again,
4:49
the mind of a gambler, I got a bailout at the
4:50
time. I started to win the money back. And over
4:53
the span of the four months of 2023, I'd worked
4:57
my way up and then it all came crashing down
5:00
when she was away. I started. playing blackjack
5:03
and, you know, tail as old as time, I was the
5:05
type of gambler that would play a hundred dollar
5:07
hands, maybe less $50 hands, win 50 bucks, a
5:12
hundred bucks, come back an hour later and just
5:15
work my way up. And as soon as I started losing,
5:17
I would double down. Right. And like, that was
5:19
my strategy over the span of a month. I'd be
5:22
up 10, $20 ,000 because of these little increments.
5:25
Right. I get that itch. I'd start playing. I'd
5:28
chase the dopamine high. I'd win a little bit
5:30
of money. I'd go back to work, do whatever I
5:33
was doing. And more often than not, I'd end up
5:37
chasing, right? Because I'd lose a hand or there's
5:40
a double down opportunity, split the aces, whatever
5:42
the case may be, you get sucked in. And that
5:45
was one of the weekends where I was down like
5:48
10 grand and like, and I know we don't talk about
5:51
the amounts too often, but you can talk about
5:53
the amounts on the podcast. It's important to
5:56
sort of illustrate the full picture here. But
5:59
I was down five figures within like five minutes.
6:01
Right. And one thing led to another and I lost
6:05
the most money and I had ever lost in my entire
6:08
gambling career. Right. We're talking about well
6:11
into the six figures in like a 48 hour window
6:13
where I didn't sleep and I was just gambling
6:15
nonstop. And it was a Friday morning around 6
6:19
a .m. I basically blew through my last two grand.
6:22
And we're not talking about cash. We're talking
6:24
about cash advances, credit. anything I could
6:28
get a hold of to deposit into my account and
6:31
use as, you know, playing money I leveraged.
6:37
And so I ended up losing, you know, again, significant
6:41
amount, well into the six figures in a very short
6:43
period of time. And after I blew through that
6:45
last 2000, I literally like was delusional. I
6:49
was deranged, right? I hadn't slept, nonstop
6:51
gambling, hadn't eaten, probably didn't even
6:53
drink any water, was sweating profusely. I said
6:57
to myself, I'm going to call my dad. If he doesn't
7:00
answer, this is it. I'm a piece of shit. I'm
7:04
not worthy of this world, this place. I'm not
7:08
worthy of my wife, who I just married not even
7:11
a year ago. I just felt so low. I called my dad.
7:17
He picked up. It was 6 a .m. At the time, I was
7:19
living in Jersey City. He came and picked me
7:22
up from my apartment again. My wife was still
7:23
away. Brought me back to my childhood home. in
7:27
burton county new jersey where i grew up i was
7:30
plastered to a recliner it was like a lazy boy
7:33
uh for the entire weekend just not i didn't know
7:37
what to do i didn't know how i was going to tell
7:38
my wife mind you this was after several instances
7:41
where i had completely unraveled and lost everything
7:45
i had gambled away money that we had saved for
7:46
our wedding i had gambled away money that we
7:49
received as gifts from our wedding mind you i
7:51
also had a lot of debt that i was carrying through
7:54
my 20s at the time i was 33. So 32, 33. So I
7:59
was doing well in my career, but I had nothing
8:01
to show for it. Anyway, that weekend, again,
8:05
I just felt so empty. I had received that bailout.
8:08
I'd paid off all my credit cards, really only
8:10
had my student loan left. And I put everything
8:14
back on those credit cards through the gambling
8:17
and had nothing in my account, $0 to my name.
8:22
So my parents, sort of intervened and said, you
8:27
need to get real, real help. And at the time
8:30
I had no idea that anything existed in the state
8:32
of New Jersey, as far as like outpatient treatment,
8:35
intensive outpatient treatment, sober living,
8:37
anything like that. So my dad started to do research.
8:40
He came across Right Choice Recovery. I did an
8:43
intake a couple of weeks later, started the program.
8:47
My insurance didn't cover it. So I was actually
8:49
on the grant. So I wasn't in IOP. I was on a,
8:52
you know, once a week type of deal, which is
8:54
why I was there for as long as I was. But it
8:58
gave me an opportunity to meet Rob Sackowitz.
9:02
And I've talked about this before. I've had Rob
9:04
on my podcast. Rob is one of the individuals
9:07
who really saved my life. When I heard his story
9:10
for the first time talking about, you know, a
9:13
decade plus of sobriety after. feeling like,
9:17
you know, worthless the same way I felt and then
9:20
taking his pain and turning it into purpose.
9:22
It gave me that motivation to really, uh, want
9:26
to do something about, about what had happened.
9:29
I didn't want it to be all for nothing. And I
9:31
didn't know what that looked like at the time.
9:32
Mind you, again, this was three years ago, but
9:35
I told myself one day I'm going to do something
9:37
similar. I don't, I don't know what it's going
9:38
to look like, but I'm, I'm going to, you know,
9:41
I'm going to figure out a way. And that ultimately
9:44
led me to creating Collectors MD in February
9:47
of 2025. I'd love to hear about kind of the progression
9:53
of the gambling, specifically with like sports
9:56
betting, casinos, and how it started, how old
10:00
you were, and kind of talk about just the progression
10:03
of your gambling career, as we say. And then
10:07
we'll obviously get into the good stuff of recovery.
10:10
We'll talk about breaking, et cetera, et cetera.
10:12
Sounds good. Yeah. Cool. What age did you start
10:17
gambling? Real quick, you guys know my story.
10:19
I was suicidal with a 10 -month -old child at
10:22
home and nearly a million dollars in debt. Want
10:24
to know the one thing I learned the hard way?
10:26
Gambling addiction is not the same as drug or
10:28
alcohol addiction. You can't just throw a gambler
10:30
into a regular rehab and replace the word alcohol
10:33
or drugs with gambling. That's why I partnered
10:35
with Algamus. They're the oldest, privately funded,
10:38
gambling -specific, inpatient treatment center.
10:41
in the country. They've been doing this and only
10:44
this for over 30 years. It's a real home out
10:47
in Arizona. It's a small program and the majority
10:50
of the staff there are also in recovery from
10:52
gambling. They get it. If you're where I was
10:55
or you love somebody who is, call 1 -888 -NO
10:59
-WAGER. That's 1 -888 -669 -2437. One call is
11:05
all it takes to start your journey in recovery.
11:07
I want to say... I discovered live blackjack
11:12
in like 2017, right around the time it was like
11:15
legalized. Um, I, I gambled casually, you know,
11:19
at the casino in Atlantic city after college
11:22
here and there, but I wasn't really a gambler.
11:24
Like I would watch my friends play blackjack
11:27
or roulette or whatever, but I really didn't
11:29
understand like the nuances of sports betting
11:31
until it was like legalized in, um, in New Jersey.
11:37
I knew about bookies. I had friends that were
11:39
bookies. I had friends that gambled on sports,
11:41
but it was just kind of foreign to me at the
11:42
time. I was a huge sports fan, but I just never
11:44
got into it. With that being said, I was always
11:46
a collector. I've been collecting my entire life.
11:49
And so through my 20s, I had at one point over
11:54
550 pairs of sneakers. You said you're a Jordan
11:56
guy. Most of my collection was Jordans. I mean,
12:00
the walls in my apartment in Hoboken. It was
12:03
Jordan ones, Jordan threes, fives, elevens. You
12:06
know, I had everything. Every colorway that would
12:08
come out, I would get them. And it was a part
12:11
of my identity. You know, people knew me as the
12:13
sneakerhead. People knew me as the guy who had
12:16
like an amazing collection. And it wasn't just
12:18
the sneakers. You know, it was the clothes. It
12:20
was the watches. It was the memorabilia. I didn't
12:22
get into the cards until later on. But I always
12:25
had a spending problem. But I didn't get into
12:27
the gambling until like, I would say, 2017. So
12:30
figure I was around. How did it start? It was
12:39
when the apps came out. It was when the apps
12:41
came out. I remember being down the shore. We
12:44
were in LBI, like family vacation. And I must
12:47
have seen a commercial. It might have been like
12:51
Betfair or something like that. And it's like
12:55
this whole concept of live blackjack seems really
12:57
interesting. Like you could sit at the table.
12:59
But like, you don't have to show your face. If
13:01
you lose money, it's not embarrassing. If you
13:03
start chasing, it's not embarrassing. So I dabbled
13:06
here and there. And then it was a couple of years
13:08
later when I moved to Hoboken, I want to say,
13:10
actually, no, it was around the same time. Maybe
13:13
I discovered Betfair in like 2015. Honestly,
13:17
it's such a blur that it's hard for me to really
13:19
track the exact dates and everything. But I was
13:22
living in Hoboken with three roommates. It was
13:24
like a frat house, you know, guys that I grew
13:26
up with. I received a promo from DraftKings for,
13:31
you know, a $200 risk -free bet. If you lose,
13:36
you know, they give you the $200 back. But, of
13:41
course, it's in rewards, which is – or it's in
13:44
DK dollars, which is in the fine print. But I
13:48
remember putting $200 or $250 on a Chicago Bears
13:52
game on a Monday night football and ended up
13:55
winning. It was within a year or so that I started
14:01
to dabble again with the blackjack, and it very
14:05
quickly became problematic. Not to the point
14:09
where I realized that there was a problem, but
14:12
I remember vividly, I would say towards the end
14:14
of 2019, where I was racing home from work. I
14:19
worked in Manhattan at the time to get to Hoboken
14:21
so I could gamble. I remember losing a couple
14:25
thousand dollars, and that felt like a gut punch
14:27
at the time. And the next day I felt miserable
14:29
and, you know, it faded and then I'd play again.
14:33
And then I would say the summer of the pandemic
14:35
2020 is when I started to pick it up again right
14:41
around the time I got into the sports cards because
14:43
I was spending so much on the cards. I felt like
14:46
I needed something to sort of, you know, make
14:52
myself whole again in my sick, twisted mind.
14:55
And so. the two fed into each other and that's
14:58
real, the real, where the real, uh, horrors began.
15:04
I always ask every compulsive gambler who comes
15:07
on the show, the same questions take me through
15:10
a light, a day in the life of a compulsive gambler
15:12
because everyone's stories is different, but,
15:15
um, it's important to hear the insanity. Yeah.
15:20
Because, uh, someone who's watching may relate
15:25
to the insanity and, when they hear the full
15:29
story, they get to say, okay, if that guy made
15:33
it out, I can make it out. Yeah. A hundred percent
15:36
pain. It's a purpose. Um, you know, the feeling
15:41
of like, Oh, I can't get out of bed. I need a
15:43
cup of coffee for me. That was gambling. Like
15:48
I'm a, I'm a coffee guy. Like I need my coffee.
15:50
Don't get me wrong. But in order to get downstairs
15:52
to get the coffee, I needed to gamble. I was
15:55
just in such a. a lull like just life was such
16:00
a blur that like i was addicted to dopamine i
16:05
was addicted to the adrenaline the excitement
16:08
the hit and so in quite literally in order to
16:10
get my ass out of bed before work on a weekday
16:14
i needed to fire up the app and play blackjack
16:16
and that's what i did and like there were days
16:19
where i'd lose like 10 you know ten thousand
16:23
dollars before i went to work Right. Like on
16:26
a Wednesday, like it was it was insane. You know,
16:32
at the time I was working from home. Right. Like
16:36
because of lockdown, some days I went in, but
16:40
other days I was working from home when I was
16:42
really in the throes of my addiction. I just
16:45
felt so distracted all the time. Like there were
16:48
times where I have a scheduled call and I was
16:52
in advertising and media, by the way, for. 13
16:55
or so years. So I was an executive, I was in
16:59
sales. And so it was my responsibility to constantly
17:03
be on the phone, on calls, talking to potential
17:06
clients, existing clients. And there were times
17:08
where I'd be playing up until the call and then
17:13
I'd get on the call and I'd be on webcam and
17:16
my phone would be here and I would quite literally
17:19
be talking to a client while I was gambling.
17:21
And that happened all the time. And then the
17:23
call would end and then I would continue the
17:25
session. And honestly, this is something that
17:28
I talk about quite a bit, LJ, especially when
17:32
I'm leading group meetings. There's a quote in
17:37
the GA Yellow Book that talks about punishing
17:39
ourselves subconsciously. That's something I
17:43
100 % did because the feeling of winning back
17:46
money after a tilt session, after losing a lot
17:49
in one sitting. felt exponentially better for
17:53
me as far as like the dopamine, the excitement,
17:55
the adrenaline than sitting down and just, you
17:59
know, starting at zero and then going up. So
18:03
I think I was subconsciously putting myself in
18:07
these like dangerous situations where I could
18:10
potentially lose a lot of money in one sitting,
18:12
knowing that this like double down strategy isn't
18:15
sustainable. And it would get to a point where
18:18
I'd have to chase a $10 ,000 loss, a $20 ,000
18:21
loss, a $50 ,000 loss. And there were times where
18:25
I had clawed my way back from a $75 ,000 hole.
18:32
And that feeling, I remember vividly, there was
18:35
this one day, I don't remember exactly when it
18:36
was, but I remember pacing around my apartment
18:39
in Hoboken with my shirt off, just drenched in
18:42
sweat, fighting for my life. I called my brother
18:46
because I was out of money at this point. I called
18:48
my brother, my younger brother, eight and a half
18:51
years younger than me. And I said, I'm going
18:54
to send you money via PayPal. I need you to send
18:56
it right back to me. I don't remember what excuse
18:58
I made, but I blatantly lied to him. And what
19:01
I was doing was sending him money with a cash
19:03
advance so I could turn credit into cash because
19:05
you can't load up the money with a credit card.
19:08
And he'd send me back $5 ,000, $10 ,000. And
19:13
I'd fire up the app again. continue chasing.
19:17
And there was one day where I was literally at
19:19
zero and it was like my last couple thousand
19:21
dollars and I clawed my way back from a $75 ,000
19:24
hole. And I remember that last hand, I was sitting
19:29
at every single seat, seven seats on the virtual
19:31
table, you know, however much money on the main
19:37
hand and then, you know, a couple hundred dollars
19:39
on the side bets. And it was one of those like
19:42
hands that was going to end up being a big swing.
19:45
talking about like a five -figure swing. And
19:48
it was like a miraculous victory, let's put it
19:52
that way. And I remember screaming on the top
19:55
of my lungs. I don't remember what I said. It
20:00
was like 10 minutes before my wife was going
20:01
to walk in the door, but I had gotten back to
20:03
zero. And then some, I probably was up a couple
20:06
hundred bucks on the day after being down 75
20:08
grand. And that feeling was probably the greatest
20:12
dopamine rush that I've ever had in my life.
20:16
Coming back from that hole as opposed to like
20:18
sitting down winning a $75 ,000 jackpot, which
20:21
I've hit cards worth like $30 ,000 before. Right.
20:26
And I've sold them nothing compared to this feeling.
20:30
Yeah. Right. And I remember looking at my Apple
20:32
watch that day, seeing how many steps I took.
20:34
Mind you, I hadn't left my apartment like 25
20:37
,000 steps, just pacing my 900 square foot apartment.
20:42
I mean, if that's not sick, like, I don't know
20:44
what it is. Right. So there were so many moments,
20:48
man, that I just look back on. But do I have
20:55
any regrets? I don't, because if those moments
21:00
didn't happen, I wouldn't be in the position
21:02
I am today helping hundreds, thousands of people.
21:06
So I truly believe everything does happen for
21:09
a reason. And I felt like this was my calling,
21:12
which is why I dropped everything and committed
21:15
my life and my career to recovery. and step 12
21:18
which is paying it forward let's get into uh
21:22
you have an interesting you have an interesting
21:27
business right and my best friend growing up
21:31
since i was seven he has a company called pops
21:34
and pulls and it's all collectibles it's it's
21:39
me it's 95 % cards, but he does the Funkos. He
21:43
does, he does all of it. And when we were growing
21:45
up, it was, you know, it was sneakers and bots
21:47
to get the Yeezys and the whole kit and caboodle
21:50
sleeping outside to get the, the, the great fives.
21:54
Like I did the whole thing. I did the whole thing.
21:57
Great fives were like, I think, dude, those were
21:59
like, it was like, you got great fives, 2012.
22:02
You were like king of the castle. Anyways, you
22:09
still, collect cards and you do the ripping and
22:14
the breaking and, and, and everything else. My
22:16
question to you is you've obviously been doing
22:21
it way longer than the gambling, right? And well,
22:25
no, I've been collecting longer than gambling.
22:27
I haven't been in the hobby, the sports card
22:29
hobby longer than I've been gambling. Got it.
22:31
But it's, I rejoined the hobby is what we call
22:36
it in, uh, during the pandemic, like 2020. How,
22:42
Because for me, I think I'd get carried away
22:46
with it. I just know myself. If I could buy a
22:50
box where I could theoretically pop a rookie
22:53
Prizm Victor Wembanyama for like $150K, I'd be
22:58
buying boxes of $5K a day. Yeah. Have you heard
23:00
about this Cooper flag chase? It was just hit
23:02
two days ago. This is his debut patch. Everybody's
23:06
been chasing. They're saying it's a $4 million
23:08
card. It was hit in Rhode Island. I mean. It's
23:11
been all over social media. It's made mainstream
23:14
headlines. But, yeah, it's been insane. How do
23:18
you differentiate that from gambling? Like, how
23:22
do you not get carried away with it? And, you
23:27
know, I have to push back a little bit in the
23:29
sense that, like, for most compulsive gamblers,
23:33
that could be a risky business. Yeah. company
23:40
is called Collectors MD. It is. So let's dive
23:43
into that more. Yeah. Well, I want to start out
23:45
by talking about Collectors MD because I don't
23:48
want anybody to be watching this and think, oh,
23:50
he's got like a company that, you know, sells
23:53
cards or like does breaks or like that's not
23:56
what we do. Yes. Right. Collectors MD is a support
24:00
and education platform for people struggling
24:10
consumer environments, right? It's not necessarily
24:13
just the trading cards. It could be any industry
24:16
that has taken the gambling -like mechanics,
24:19
the formula that the casinos and sportsbooks
24:21
have been using for forever, and have applied
24:25
it to their business model using things like
24:28
modern technology, right? A lot of people have
24:30
been struggling in isolation, not even realizing
24:34
that the activities that they're involved in
24:37
are heavily tied to gambling -like behaviors,
24:41
right? And so I created a platform that I wish
24:44
existed when I was in the throes of my addiction.
24:47
That's Collectors MD. It's a support group. We
24:49
provide weekly peer support meetings. We have
24:52
tools and resources. We have access to a full
24:56
-fledged referral network of doctors, clinicians,
24:59
therapists, lawyers, financial advisors, treatment
25:04
centers, councils, coalitions. We've developed
25:06
a framework. which I've presented actually a
25:10
couple of weeks ago in Nashville at the NCPG
25:12
annual conference, basically educating the industry,
25:16
the problem gambling industry, on the nuances
25:19
of these gambling -like mechanics across other
25:21
industries. And so that's what Collectors MD is.
25:25
We've grown exponentially since I started it
25:28
in March of 2025. We've received a ton of momentum.
25:35
I should say, media coverage within the last
25:37
couple of months. We were featured in the New
25:38
York Times, Barron's, the Wall Street Journal.
25:41
Last week, actually, there's an article coming
25:43
out in a couple of weeks with GQ. We've had a
25:46
handful of other media outlets reach out to us,
25:48
NBC, among several others. So we're really at
25:52
the forefront of this, what we're calling dopamine
25:54
economy crisis. With that being said, we have
25:59
a different approach than most recovery. groups
26:05
or circles or treatment centers you're obviously
26:08
familiar with harm reduction right yes i firmly
26:12
believe that harm reduction is not applicable
26:15
to gambling or really to substance for that matter
26:19
as far as addiction is concerned we're on the
26:22
same page on that one uh a lot of people feel
26:24
you know a different type of way but when it
26:27
comes to traditional gambling i I don't believe
26:30
that there are any redeeming qualities. I think
26:32
that it destroys from the inside out. And once
26:34
you start displaying obsessive, compulsive behaviors,
26:39
it's time to draw the line and cut it out of
26:41
your life. Now, when it comes to collecting,
26:43
and we talked a little bit about this before
26:45
the cameras started rolling, but when it comes
26:50
to collecting, it's something that's rooted in
26:52
childhood. Childhood memories, nostalgia, connection,
26:57
camaraderie, relationships. you know i personally
27:00
grew up in the 90s my grandfather was a big watch
27:04
collector he collected luxury time pieces so
27:07
i've always had like the collecting gene so to
27:10
speak you know so as a kid i collected baseball
27:13
cards pokemon cards tech decks i don't know if
27:15
you remember the mini skateboards pogs you know
27:19
all sorts of different toys action figures whatever
27:22
and then as i got older I started to gravitate
27:26
towards memorabilia and sneakers and watches
27:29
and clothing and things of that nature. And then
27:33
I got into the cards in 2020. But collecting
27:36
by itself can be a beautiful hobby. Again, it
27:44
brings people together. It allows you to enjoy
27:50
and appreciate something with other people. people,
27:58
people attend, you form new friendships, you
28:01
make, you build relationships. Like there's something
28:03
to be said about collecting that doesn't exist
28:06
when it comes to gambling. Now you could say,
28:08
you could go, you know, to the casino with the
28:10
boys, bachelor party, have a good time, gamble,
28:14
whatever. But like collecting is rooted in purity,
28:17
right? Like kids have collected forever for hundreds
28:21
of years longer. And when you strip away all
28:26
the modern day bells and whistles, all of the
28:27
modern technology, it can still be a beautiful
28:31
thing. So that's what we try to encourage. It's
28:35
this phrase we call intentional collecting, which
28:38
is our version of harm reduction. So it's setting
28:41
boundaries. It's knowing your limits. It's holding
28:45
yourself accountable. It's having people in your
28:47
inner circle to hold you accountable. And if
28:50
approached responsibly. You could bring it back
28:56
to how it was when you were a kid. So here's
29:00
where my curiosity comes in. Like for me, I could
29:08
say comfortably that like, oh, if I'm going to
29:12
a trade show and I'm looking for a rookie Michael
29:15
Jordan card, right? And I see at your stand,
29:18
you have a rookie Michael Jordan card and you're
29:19
selling it for $5 billion, right? I know that
29:24
I'm paying that money to get that card. Sure.
29:28
The confusion comes for me and is like, oh, I
29:33
can buy this box of Prizms, right? And in it
29:36
is like, you know, eight other boxes, whatever
29:38
comes in it. And I'm buying it because there's
29:44
a chance that there could be a rookie Victor
29:47
Wembanyama card in there. Right. And there's
29:49
also a great, much greater chance that there's
29:52
going to be fucking nothing in there. Correct.
29:54
And I'm going to spend one, two, $3 ,000 on this
29:57
box. Yep. and most likely get nothing in return
30:00
for it. Which, by the way, I did 2023. I was
30:08
gambling, like sports and casinos and all my
30:11
other shit. Sure. And then my buddy Alex, who
30:14
has pops and pulls, was like, yo, I'm on this
30:16
Wembanyama hunt. And I was like, let's go
30:18
buy some boxes. He's like, dude, they're like
30:20
$1 ,500, $1 ,400, $1 ,200. You don't want to
30:23
know what they are today. I'm like, let's go
30:24
buy 10 boxes. Fuck it. Yeah. And next thing I
30:27
know. 10 hobby boxes or? Yeah. Hobby boxes. Okay.
30:29
So you spent close to 10 grand. Yeah. Yeah. And
30:32
next thing I know for like a three month period,
30:34
I'm like spending 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand.
30:37
You were hooked. Yeah. And my wife is like, that's
30:40
gambling. Yes. I'm like, no, it's not. I'm like,
30:43
we're going to sell the cars. We'll get, you
30:45
know, our money back at least. And like. What
30:47
you were doing wasn't collecting. Okay. There
30:51
are layers to this. It's complicated. And we
30:54
offer two distinct lanes as part of the work
30:57
we do as part of our programming. Intentional
30:59
collecting. There's this sort of gray area of
31:02
intentional investing because some people just
31:04
like to invest in sports cards and are smart
31:07
and savvy and strategic about it. But it's really
31:10
intentional collecting and abstinence. Split
31:13
down the middle, two separate groups. We respect
31:16
people wherever they are in their collecting
31:19
or recovery journey. We have... I would say it's
31:23
about 60 -40. 60 % intentional collectors, 40
31:26
% people who are abstaining. And so collecting,
31:31
again, by itself is not gambling. Yes. But the
31:36
concept of opening up a box of cards, putting
31:42
down something in exchange for something else
31:50
that has an uncertain outcome is... By definition,
31:55
gambling. So yes, opening packs of cards is,
31:58
according to GA, gambling. And it has been for
32:04
the last 150, 200 years. Now, again, there are
32:08
layers to this. It has become more and more amplified
32:11
by break culture, modern technology, social media,
32:16
hype. That has all created this cluster of...
32:26
issues right because there's no regulation there's
32:30
no oversight there's no guardrails there's no
32:32
age gates anybody can participate and again these
32:35
industries these apps these platforms are borrowing
32:39
the formula that the casinos and sportsbooks
32:42
are using and applying it to their their platforms
32:45
and so people are getting hooked the same way
32:47
they would with gambling and so when you were
32:49
chasing that women yama you weren't joining breaks
32:51
and we can get into what a break is and you know
32:54
that whole world You were just you were just
32:57
buying expensive boxes and trying to hunt, you
32:59
know, the rookie, the chase. And that is very
33:05
commonplace, too. That's actually what I preferred
33:07
versus the breaking. I like to buy, you know,
33:09
the hobby boxes and hit the big card and, you
33:13
know, put it in my personal collection. Like
33:14
that was much more exciting for me than joining
33:19
a break because I knew. And most of the time
33:21
when you're joining the breaks, you're, you're
33:23
going to miss. It's like joining a break is like
33:26
sitting down at a roulette roulette table with
33:30
200 numbers on it, as opposed to how many was
33:33
it? 36. Right. And then just like praying that
33:36
your number hits, right. No matter how much money
33:40
you put on the table, some people will spend
33:42
a couple thousand dollars on one team and pray
33:47
that they, they make their money back, which
33:50
is. the chances of you making your money back
33:52
are like 2 % when joining breaks. Now, the chances
33:55
of opening a box and hitting something of value,
33:59
like the odds aren't much better either. You're
34:02
talking about like probably somewhere between
34:04
5 % and 10%, right? Like you really got to hit
34:08
the big card in order to make your money back.
34:10
But the whole concept for me, it's like collecting
34:14
shouldn't be about the money. It wasn't about
34:17
the money when I was a kid. When I was opening
34:19
packs of Pokemon cards or basketball cards with
34:22
my dad when I was eight years old, I wasn't thinking
34:25
like, you know, I want to hit a Michael Jordan
34:26
card so I could pay off my parents' mortgage.
34:29
I didn't want to hit a Michael Jordan card so
34:30
I can buy myself like, you know, a thousand more
34:35
boxes. Like, it wasn't about that. It was about
34:37
the experience, the eye appeal, the favorite
34:40
player. That's what collecting is supposed to
34:43
be about, but it's just become a commodity where
34:45
people are just chasing returns. The quick flip,
34:49
the return on investment, the quick come up,
34:52
the Victor Wembanyama rookie, the Cooper flag
34:54
debut patch. It's all about the dollar signs
34:57
now, and that's where a lot of issues are arising.
35:02
How do you not get triggered by being in that
35:06
space with your own gambling? I'm not immersed
35:11
in the same spaces that I was when I was in the
35:15
throes of my addiction. I was, again, I was ripping
35:19
expensive hobby boxes, joining breaks, spending
35:23
tens of thousands of dollars a month, sometimes
35:25
a week on cards in addition to the gambling,
35:28
right? I'm obviously not doing that anymore.
35:31
I'm practicing what I preach, which is intentional
35:35
collecting. So again, you talked about chasing
35:38
that Victor Wembanyama card out of a... Prizm
35:40
box where you don't know what's inside. Intentional
35:43
collecting would mean rather than spending $1
35:45
,500 on that Prizm hobby box, take your budget,
35:49
whatever it is that is within your means, within
35:52
your boundaries, and go and buy the card that
35:55
you're chasing or a lesser version of it or whatever
35:57
it is, right? That's collecting. The same thing
36:01
applies with the sneakers. This is where I compare
36:04
the sneaker collecting to the card collecting.
36:05
When I was collecting sneakers, I'd buy a pair
36:07
of Jordans. Right. Let's say I'm buying the grape
36:10
fives. I'm paying $200 retail. When they come
36:13
in the mail, I open the box. I know there's going
36:15
to be a $200 pair of Jordans in that box. When
36:19
you're buying the hobby boxes, you have no idea
36:21
what's inside. Correct. Which is what makes it
36:22
gambling. Correct. Which is why I think buying
36:24
singles, single cards is the better approach
36:27
if you're trying to intentionally collect. I
36:30
don't think that's gambling, by the way. It's
36:32
like the same thing as like, okay, I'm in GA,
36:34
obviously. I have a brokerage account for my
36:37
wife and I. I have a trust account for my son.
36:40
We put money in there. My broker takes that money
36:46
and puts it into stocks, puts it into the S &P
36:48
500, puts it into whatever else he puts it in.
36:51
I don't have access to it, but they say the stock
36:54
market is the biggest casino. It's intentional.
36:57
I'm not putting it in compulsively checking my
37:00
phone to see what the account's at or with the
37:02
intention of like, hey, I'm... Putting $500 on
37:06
this account, I need to get to $1 ,500 by next
37:08
Friday so I can pay my bills or I'm fucked. Right.
37:10
Again, there are layers to it. Yes. Gambling
37:16
addiction is very hard because of the financial
37:18
component of it. You're never going to invest
37:21
in a 401k? That's my point. Drugs and alcohol,
37:25
it's so black and white. You don't need drugs
37:28
and alcohol to survive. So when you get sober,
37:30
you put that shit down. Right. But when you stop
37:33
gambling, you need money to survive. You need
37:35
to pay rent. You need to pay bills. You need
37:37
to do this. You want to make more money. You
37:38
want to be successful. You want to take your
37:40
family on a vacation. You want to send your kids
37:42
to good schools, et cetera, et cetera. So on
37:44
down the line, you can go. And that's why it
37:49
gets fuzzy sometimes. And I think a lot of problems,
37:54
you mentioned this, a lot of problem gamblers
37:58
have the same issue, which is overspending. Our
38:00
relation to money because of the gambling. got
38:03
so fucking distorted when i was in action like
38:07
you know five ten grand didn't feel like anything
38:08
to me like right i get five ten grand today i'm
38:12
like nice yeah that's nice yeah like i'm not
38:15
you know different completely different mindset
38:17
completely different mindset um it's very very
38:22
interesting because it is super hot right now
38:26
it is and it's super hot with you know i'd say
38:30
even our generation older people too but A lot
38:34
of young kids. Right. Young kids, high school,
38:36
college kids who are breaking, doing the rips,
38:39
doing the whole thing. You have Logan Paul who's
38:41
like, you know. Logan Paul, Kevin O 'Leary, Tom
38:45
Brady. Yeah. The list goes on of athletes and
38:47
celebrities that have endorsed the hobby. And
38:49
there's nothing wrong with that. No, because
38:51
by the way, like Logan Paul bought a Pokemon
38:55
card for, I think it was like a million or two
38:57
million bucks. He sold it for like 16 million.
38:59
But a huge part of that was the social media,
39:01
the marketing, the hype. He did it with Golden,
39:03
which is the most premiered auction house. Again,
39:08
when it comes to celebrities, they just live
39:10
in a different stratosphere. So if anyone's trying
39:12
to take advice from Kevin O 'Leary around how
39:15
to invest in sports cards, he's playing on another
39:20
league. A $10 million card is not the same thing
39:27
as a $2 ,000 card or even a $10 ,000 card. a
39:32
different commodity. It's a different animal.
39:35
Like it's apples to oranges. So a lot of people
39:38
fall into the trap of like hearing their favorite
39:41
influencer or seeing them on YouTube, wheeling
39:44
and dealing these six figure collections. And
39:47
then they try to copy and paste their formula
39:49
or their business model and they fail miserably.
39:52
So again, like we are very much pro hobby, pro
39:57
collecting. We are not anti collecting. I want
40:00
to make that crystal clear. I'm a collector.
40:03
I've been collecting my entire life. God willing,
40:06
I'll collect for the rest of my life, right?
40:08
Intentionally. We're just trying to help people
40:12
navigate what's become a very, very complicated
40:15
world of collectibles, right? Right now, people
40:20
need guidance, especially newcomers, the kids,
40:23
the highly impressionable, the vulnerable, the
40:26
people that are being preyed upon by these marketing.
40:31
tactics. We want to make sure that parents are
40:35
educated. We want to make sure that collectors
40:37
are educated. They know what they're getting
40:38
themselves into. Again, there's nothing inherently
40:41
wrong with joining a break and having fun. We
40:45
love the idea of everybody being involved and
40:49
being able to do it responsibly, but that's just
40:52
not realistic with the current infrastructure
40:54
that's in place, which is why Collectors MD is
40:57
actively working with major players. operators
41:01
within the hobby ecosystem to implement responsible
41:05
messaging, to advocate for reform, where we developed
41:10
an initiative called the Healthy Hobby Initiative
41:12
in partnership with the Certified Trading Card
41:15
Association, one of our partners. They're soon
41:18
going to become the trade association of the
41:21
hobby, of the sports card hobby. And that's going
41:26
to be a game changer. And together, we've sort
41:29
of combined forces. And again, we're promoting
41:31
safer, stronger, smarter, healthier, more sustainable,
41:36
responsible, accountable, like all these adjectives
41:39
that we always use because it's important to
41:41
keep yourself in check. Remind yourself at the
41:44
end of the day, this is a hobby. It should be
41:46
adding value to my life, not taking away from
41:48
it. I want to just, you know, we got a couple
41:52
of minutes left here. I just want to talk a little
41:55
bit more about recovery. And listen, there's
41:58
a lot of guys in GA that I'm friends with that
42:00
have multiple years decades of abstinence who
42:03
had a really bad gambling problem and are like
42:06
you know working hedge funds right yeah which
42:08
is like it's gambling right let's just call it
42:11
how it is it's just like more advised and more
42:14
structured risk -taking right um and it's not
42:17
technically their money yeah obviously but it
42:20
is right um how do you keep your recovery first
42:24
how do you keep your recovery intact being in
42:26
this space uh dealing with temptation and we
42:30
can generalize the question of temptation you
42:32
know what i'm saying like yeah there's temptation
42:34
when you drive back and forth to jersey there's
42:36
4 000 ads for draft kings fan dual caesars etc
42:40
how do you i mean there's temptation coming to
42:43
manhattan yeah right like from the you know the
42:46
the bars to the clubs to the strip clubs to the
42:49
you know it's the concrete jungle you could do
42:52
whatever in the city right so you have to be
42:54
you have to have your guard up wherever you go
42:57
when you're in sobriety whether it be for gambling
42:59
substance sex porn whatever it is like you you
43:02
just have to make sure that you're constantly
43:06
taking personal inventory every single day you're
43:10
practicing step work you're holding yourself
43:11
accountable for me personally it's more than
43:15
just myself now right like i've created a platform
43:18
that hundreds of people you could say thousands
43:23
of people lean on and rely on like there are
43:26
people that we we host a weekly meeting at eight
43:29
o 'clock every wednesday night so tonight our
43:31
65th meeting um will be taking place there are
43:35
people that are genuinely looking forward to
43:37
that meeting it's the one hour a week that they
43:39
can get away and decompress and you know hear
43:43
other people's stories and just get some relief
43:46
right like we have group chats, discords, social
43:49
media, like, you know, people listen to my podcast.
43:52
We've done almost 70 episodes. Like it's just,
43:55
it's gotten to a point where it's become so much
43:58
bigger than myself. So I'm not just looking out
44:02
for my own recovery, my own wellbeing, my family's
44:06
wellbeing, but also the community that I've created.
44:09
There's a lot, there's a lot of responsibility
44:11
that comes with that. And I remind myself every
44:14
single day, if I were ever to go back to my old
44:16
life, like I'd lose it all. And I wouldn't just
44:23
be letting myself and my family down anymore.
44:25
I'd be letting down hundreds of people that again
44:27
are relying on Collectors MD as this, you know,
44:31
foundation of their recovery. I really appreciate
44:37
this conversation today. Likewise. I wouldn't
44:41
say I was skeptical about it, but I had like
44:45
a very filtered view on it just because of my
44:50
experience sure with the hobby the Prizms and
44:53
the hobby boxes the only reason why i know is
44:54
because like that was like that was 2023 we were
44:57
all chasing there was like a black diamond Victor
45:00
Wembanyama card it was uh the true black Victor
45:03
Wembanyama Prizm card was the number one chase
45:06
at the time but there was also the nebula one
45:08
of one the the problem with modern sports cards
45:11
is that there's so many different variations.
45:13
Yeah. There is no true rookie anymore, which
45:15
is why Fanatics has come out and created this
45:17
debut patch. It's basically the logo man that
45:21
the rookie wears in his first game. They take
45:23
it from the Jersey and they put it into a card.
45:25
The player signs it. And that's now the most
45:28
coveted rookie card of a single player. Got it.
45:30
But back then it was, yeah, it was like the Prizm
45:32
true, true black. But I will say this. I think
45:36
that what you're doing is great. And I think
45:40
that, Like all things out there, this is not
45:44
going away, right? I think gambling, casinos,
45:47
and sportsbook is obviously a very black and
45:49
white thing. But I do think there are people
45:52
who love collecting. I think there are people
45:55
who are compulsive gamblers who have to go back
46:00
and work at the stock market or at a hedge fund
46:02
or at a bank. And I think the most important
46:06
thing that I got out of today is that as a compulsive
46:10
gambler you are able to come back and do this
46:12
responsibly with intention i i personally after
46:15
our discussion don't think that it's gambling
46:17
um and the truth in that is for anybody who's
46:24
watching right you can be the worst kind of compulsive
46:29
gambler gamble every penny cash advance this
46:31
that borrow steal lie cheat whatever you want
46:33
to do And you can get into recovery. You can
46:36
live a normal life. You can be responsible with
46:38
money. You can be trusted at work. You can be
46:40
trusted at home. I really appreciate you coming
46:44
out today. One last question for you before we
46:47
wrap up. I ask every guest the same question.
46:50
If there's somebody watching right now who's
46:51
still sick and suffering from gambling, what's
46:53
your best piece of advice for them? I shared
46:58
my story where in April of 2023, I was at what
47:02
I felt like at the time, rock bottom. I thought
47:05
my life was over. It's been a little over three
47:08
years and I've never felt more fulfilled than
47:12
I have in my entire life than I do today. And
47:17
I attribute that to my recovery. So you can live
47:21
a life where you're in recovery and it may not
47:27
look the same as it did when you were in the
47:29
throes of your addiction. It's fulfilling. It's
47:34
gratifying. It's rewarding. There are so many
47:37
things that you learn and you feel in recovery
47:40
that you have never felt before. So just know
47:44
the grass is definitely greener on the other
47:47
side and there is a light at the end of the tunnel,
47:49
but it is a lifelong commitment and you have
47:52
to take it one day at a time. Amen. Thank you
47:54
so much for coming on. Thank you, bro. Appreciate
47:56
you. In the description of this episode, I'm
47:58
going to link Alyx's socials. I'm going to link
48:01
his website. If you're in the industry or you're
48:06
a collector, reach out to Alyx. If you're a compulsive
48:09
gambler, reach out to Alyx or myself. We're always
48:11
here to help. As always, thank you for watching.
48:13
We'll see you next week.