Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women's Relationships with Friendship Coach Danielle Bayard Jackson

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Fighting for Our Friendships: The Science and Art of Conflict and Connection in Women's Relationships with Friendship Coach Danielle Bayard Jackson · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Put a new spin on pretty. This is pretty smart.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Hello to my pretty smart people. I hope you're having
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a great week. Today's episode is about friendship. So if
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: it means something to you, if the episode rings true,
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: if you learn something, please send it to a friend,
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: send it to your mom, your aunt, your group of girls.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I have to tell you, it's.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: One of the most fun that I've ever had recording.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Our guest is quite phenomenal, and she calls friendship the
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: great equalizer. What she means is, it doesn't matter if
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: you're on the playground in elementary school, you're in college
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: and a sorority sister, or you're in your thirties, forties, fifties, sixties.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: We're all trying to navigate friendship. And despite the reputation
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: that romantic relationships can get it, turns out navigating our
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: platonic relationships can be just as tricky. Some of our
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: very favorite comfort shows are excellent portrayals of female friendship,
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: highlighting why these relationships are so so special and often
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  Speaker 1: so complicated too, from sex in the city, and.
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I cannot believe that you would judge me after everything
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: that we've been through.
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  Speaker 2: Too insecure.
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  Speaker 3: I can't be the only one who wants to make
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  Speaker 3: this work Molly, and.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, even the women of Golden Girls.
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  Speaker 3: I'd had the.
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  Speaker 2: Money, I could have been living in a swinging condo
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  Speaker 2: instead of with I better not say anything till I've
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  Speaker 2: had my coffee.
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  Speaker 3: A slut and a moron.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: It is well documented just how hard it can be
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  Speaker 1: to navigate bumpy moments with friends. After all, we all
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: have different expectations, needs, ways of navigating conflict. If you
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: really think about it, why would we ever expect it
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  Speaker 1: to be seamless?
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  Speaker 2: But so often we do.
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  Speaker 1: We expect friendships to just happen to be for our
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  Speaker 1: friends to just know how to show up for us.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: And that's especially highlighted in life's moments like birthdays, weddings, funerals.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And that's where Danielle Buyer Jackson comes in. She's kind
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  Speaker 1: of a relationship expert, but for female friendships. It started
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: after she found herself helping sort out friendship challenges with
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: girls in high school classrooms. Later inside the walls of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: her own pr agency. From there, she saw a need
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: and she became a certain women's coach, and she brings
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: the same care and curiosity that relationship experts use in
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  Speaker 1: helping couples to understand and optimize our platonic friendships. Her
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: new book, Fighting for Our Friendships, is a masterclass in
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  Speaker 1: conflict in connection and communication. So, whether you're trying to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: make new connections, contemplating letting a friend go, don't know
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: how to deal with a friend that disappointed you, or
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  Speaker 1: you're struggling with built up resentment, today's episode is the
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: ultimate guide in creating and sustaining meaningful female friendships. I
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: think we can all agree how much they bring to
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: our lives, you know in that vein. I want to
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  Speaker 1: mention this if you're a person whose female friendships don't
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: bring a ton to your life, I've also been there,
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: and I really worked online. So wherever you are in
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: your friendships, this episode is for.
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  Speaker 2: You, Danielle.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I've never said this before. Danielle, Welcome to Pretty Smart.
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm so excited to be meeting you
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  Speaker 3: and to be diving to this conversation.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Me too. Your title is Female Friendship Coach. Yeah, you wrote.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: In your book that people were very skeptical of that
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  Speaker 1: at the beginning.
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  Speaker 2: Why were they skeptical?
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  Speaker 3: Because it's like, is that a real job? You know?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: And I started off as a high school teacher, and
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  Speaker 3: I feel like that was met with a lot of
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: like reverence and respect. And then I was a publicist,
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: and then that made me feel like a badass. And
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  Speaker 3: so now being at parties and people are like, what
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: do you do and being like, oh, I'm a friendship
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  Speaker 3: you know, I think people are so skeptical because we
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  Speaker 3: don't see friendship itself as something that commands that kind
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  Speaker 3: of respect.
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  Speaker 1: And what did you see in high schools that you
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  Speaker 1: thought this was such a needed thing.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I taught seniors. So I have twelfth graders,
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  Speaker 3: they're about to go into the room world, but between
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: classes and after school, it's the number one thing they
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  Speaker 3: wanted to talk about. So I kind of had like
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  Speaker 3: a front row seat to how their issues with connection
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  Speaker 3: and belonging directly impacted their confidence, their attendance, their mood.
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  Speaker 3: And then I left the classroom and got into public
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  Speaker 3: relations and I'm like, I'm working with these beautiful, high achieving,
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  Speaker 3: charismatic women and it wasn't long before I found out privately,
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  Speaker 3: secretly they're struggling with issues and their friendship with other women.
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  Speaker 3: And that's when I was like, okay, so this is
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  Speaker 3: a thing. And for the past six years, I've dedicated
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  Speaker 3: my career to studying what the latest research has to
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  Speaker 3: say about women's cooperation, communication, and conflict.
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  Speaker 1: I love that you just started your own career. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: it was born out of necessity.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah about you know, if you google books, At least
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  Speaker 3: at the time that I got into it, there weren't
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  Speaker 3: many friendship books that popped up, and of the ones
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  Speaker 3: that came up, there mostly for children. And it's like, okay,
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  Speaker 3: because that's how we see friendship that surely a child
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  Speaker 3: would need support, but if you're an adult you should
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  Speaker 3: have it figured out.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I definitely didn't. Did you have it figured out?
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  Speaker 3: Oh no, I'm still learning. I'm still figuring it out.
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  Speaker 1: Do you feel like I guess it's kind of like
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  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure too, Like people really expect you
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  Speaker 1: to show up as the friend.
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  Speaker 3: Yes, they do. It's funny because sometimes even on social
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  Speaker 3: people will come and like, oh God, I wish I
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  Speaker 3: was friends with you, and just like, oh good don't
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  Speaker 3: let my real friends do that because they'd be like, girl,
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  Speaker 3: let me tell you. So I'm figuring it out too.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a woman out here in the world figuring it
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  Speaker 3: out too. But it is helpful to look at this
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  Speaker 3: research and stuff because it certainly informs the decisions that
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  Speaker 3: I make with my friends.
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  Speaker 1: So you said when you came onto the scene, there
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: weren't a ton of books. I think there's so many
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  Speaker 1: books about romance. There's a few books, there's not very
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  Speaker 1: many still about friendship. What do you think that says
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  Speaker 1: about how we value it in society?
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  Speaker 3: You know, especially for women, it's something that is the
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: big milestone partnership, being partnered. And even our friends, they're
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  Speaker 3: well meaning, but they're like, okay, so what's the update
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  Speaker 3: with the guy. Are we getting closer? It's like all
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  Speaker 3: this pressure to move toward this accomplishment. So of course
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  Speaker 3: they're going to be all these resources that emerge to
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  Speaker 3: support you on that journey. But I think we still
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  Speaker 3: see friendship as like an easy, natural, organic thing, And
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  Speaker 3: for women especially, we're like, oh, you're naturally communal, Like
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  Speaker 3: what support do you need? Go talk to your girls.
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  Speaker 3: But it's complicated. We know that to be true. But
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  Speaker 3: if there's an assumption that it should be natural and
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  Speaker 3: that something's wrong with you, if you can't get it right,
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  Speaker 3: then you're not going to see a lot of resources
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  Speaker 3: emerge to support us through what I would argue is
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  Speaker 3: probably one of the most important relationships you'll ever have.
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  Speaker 1: Why do you say one of the most important relationships
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  Speaker 1: you'll ever have.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, friendship should be at the heart of romantic relationships.
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  Speaker 3: So we start right there. I'm not into you know,
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  Speaker 3: a guy liking me if I don't think you'd make
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  Speaker 3: a good friend to me, you know, because the liking fades,
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  Speaker 3: and so friendship should be at the heart of romantic relationships.
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  Speaker 3: But also, you know, for women specifically, you know, the
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  Speaker 3: research tells us that seventy percent of a women's social
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  Speaker 3: network is other women. So to me, I'm like, well,
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  Speaker 3: then I better figure out a way to connect with
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: other women because it's it's everywhere. So yeah, I think
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  Speaker 3: there's a lot of we have to figure out culturally
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  Speaker 3: to raise friendship to the spot where it should be.
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  Speaker 3: But I do see things cleaning that way. We're friendship content,
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  Speaker 3: so that makes me excited.
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  Speaker 2: Tell me about the data I know you're a data girl.
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  Speaker 1: What does it say about how our friendships impact our life,
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  Speaker 1: our health, our emotions.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I get so excited about this because a
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  Speaker 3: lot of times when we talk about female friendship, it's like,
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  Speaker 3: you know, here are some ways to you know, go
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  Speaker 3: to brunch, here are some spots, and it's like, that's
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  Speaker 3: all fun. But there's so much discourse around friendship as
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  Speaker 3: like a recreational thing that you put in the margins
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  Speaker 3: of your lives and it's fun, and it is, but
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  Speaker 3: there's just way too much research that draws a direct
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  Speaker 3: line between your female friendship specifically and your physical, mental,
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  Speaker 3: and emotional health. And so, you know, the first thing
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  Speaker 3: is that when women are stressed, one of our stressed
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  Speaker 3: responses is to go and gather with other women. So
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  Speaker 3: many of us are already familiar with the concept of
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: fight or flight, but they did that study again, this
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  Speaker 3: time with women, and they found that we have other
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  Speaker 3: responses we do. We do it's called tend or befriends.
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  Speaker 3: So fight or flight or tend or befriend. So when
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  Speaker 3: we're stressed, additional responses we might have are to go
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  Speaker 3: tend to those who we deem as more vulnerable. And
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: make sure they're okay, or to go and be friend
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  Speaker 3: and group and gather with our girls, and it decreases
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  Speaker 3: our cortisols. So that's probably why when you're stressed out
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  Speaker 3: and you call a girlfriend, you bump up up afterwards.
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  Speaker 3: It's just like this kind of like a hive, like ah,
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: because that's what we do. And so for women who
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: don't have that outlet, you might you know, risk not
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  Speaker 3: having that benefit. And then you know women, they've done
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  Speaker 3: studies with women who are going through breast cancer and
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  Speaker 3: the ones who have a strong expansive social network tend
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  Speaker 3: to have better outcomes. Let me say it like that. So,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, there's just so many ways where having strong
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  Speaker 3: relationships with other women impacts other areas of your life.
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  Speaker 1: I leave dinner with my friends and I feel so
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  Speaker 1: much happier and better about life. And so is that
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  Speaker 1: is that everyone or that's like predominantly female.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know, hanging out with friends no matter who
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: you are, is like such a mood boost, right, But
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  Speaker 3: I think for women it's maybe so much more satisfy
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: because it is safe and okay for us culturally to
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: share about our feelings about our health. There's you other
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: resource that shows that we're more likely than men to
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: talk about mental health, work, things that are relational. So
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: it does feel very satisfying, whereas with men, maybe in
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: some spaces they're not They feel like they don't have
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the same freedom or that it says, okay, so maybe
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: y'all are going and playing ball, but did you really
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: get counsel, did you get emotional support? You know? And
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: so it looks a little bit different.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: You mentioned you started as a high school teacher.
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  Speaker 1: Are there things that you saw girls deal with in
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  Speaker 1: friendship in high school that we grow out of as
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: adults or do you see too often that we actually
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: aren't growing out of those things? You know?
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  Speaker 3: I always say I think it's the same things I've
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  Speaker 3: worked with teenagers and adults, like that fear of rejection,
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: that fear of not belonging is the same. We might
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: hide it differently or navigate it differently, but a lot
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  Speaker 3: of times when you don't want to initiate something or
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: reach out or tell another woman like, Okay, you seem
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: really cool, I'd love to get coffee, feels like a
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: social risk. That's the same. And so it's so funny
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  Speaker 3: because I made the foolish mistake of thinking I wouldn't
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  Speaker 3: have to deal with that when I was no longer
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  Speaker 3: a teacher. But you know, I learned very quickly that
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  Speaker 3: at every stage of womanhood, we're trying to navigate that
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: kind of relationship.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: That's interesting. I read it. Have you read it Tools
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: of Titans?
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  Speaker 3: No.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Tim Ferris, who's a podcaster, it's like his book, Yeah,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and he has it's an anthology, so he has like
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: best of interviews in there. And Gabby Reese, who I
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: think was a volleyball player, talks about going first. And
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: when I read that part, it changed my whole life
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: because she says when I walk down the street, I
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: smile first. When I'm in a new room, I say
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: hello first, and it's never bad to go first.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I really try and emulate that, So that's nice to hear.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I honestly, I feel like that changes the
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: game because we're often waiting for these cues that guarantee safety. Well,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: if she smiles at me first, then okay, I'm safe.
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: You're not all do it back. But it's just very
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  Speaker 3: reactive and we have to feel more empowered to be
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: the authority figure and the author of our own friendship
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: story and so you know, it sounds kind of like
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: woo wu, but it's like, if you tell yourself I
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: am a connector that's who I am like as an identity,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: then you're more likely to lean into those behaviors because
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: it's an extension of who you are, as opposed to
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: seeing as behaviors that you sometimes try on in a
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: fleeting moment of confidence. It's who I am. So I'm
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: going to text what are you text back? Or not
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: you cross my mind? So I'm going to say, oh,
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of you. I hope you're doing okay because
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: that's who I am. So I think that reframe was
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: kind of helpful.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: It really is interesting too, because I read in your
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: book that you in the past you were quote unable
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: to be vulnerable in your friendships. So you were nervous
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: about being the authority, You were nervous about sharing what
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you really felt.
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  Speaker 3: What does that mean and why.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: Is vulnerability so central to our female friendships?
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well I'm trying to figure that out. You still, like,
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: what is that reluctance to let friends see you be
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: weak or weird or like to let you see me
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: in these states? And still working through that on some things.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: But you know, self disclosure is like the glue of
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: women's friendships. Sharing and having her share with you. It's
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: how we establish and negotiate trust. So if you think
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: about it, like, if you're starting to lean into being
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: friends with another woman, you're probably sharing a little more
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: because you like her and you're trying to like start
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: a friendship, so you're sharing to queue to her. I
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: like you, I'm trying to bond with you. And when
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: you're in an established friendship and there starts to be
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: mistrust or you're like turned off by something, you share
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: less and she notices that I've seen a lot of
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: jokes on TikTok and stuff and social media around you know,
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: you know pov, you know when your friend's slowly fading
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: you out, it's because we start to get the one
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: word answers and we're like, yeah, cool, because we share
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: and that's how we signal closeness and whenever there's tension,
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: we tend to withhold. And that's just kind of like
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: how that parameter of our friendship state.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: So now having like knowing that that's something that you're
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: working on, what is your barometer? Because sometimes I'm trying
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to share less. I feel very open bookie, and I'm like,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: you know what, maybe not all my friends need to
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: know all the things like what is that line?
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, so okay. So this is a great point
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: because now when we think of the word vulnerability, most
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: of us do think about self disclosure. Like if I
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: say you need to be vulnerable, like, okay, I need
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: to share something big, but I always like to differentiate,
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: you know, sharing some big childhood trauma thing that might
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: be a level ten of vulnerability. But the best way
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: I've heard vulnerability defined is like taking a risk of
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: possible rejection. So that could be with positive things too.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: So telling another woman like I really like you and
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: I would love to hang out might feel very risky
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: to me, you know, So that's vulnerability too. So it
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: just means like, am I safe to make mistakes here?
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: That's vulnerability. That's do I feel safe to shine here?
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: Which is a big one. Is it okay for me
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: to tell friends like, oh my god, I got this opportunity?
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Or do I feel like that make me a target?
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: So vulnerability is I'm going to do or say something
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: and I feel like it could cost me. They might
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: look at me differently or misunderstand me. So in that way,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: can you make yourself known and seen. It might not
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: necessarily entail self disclosure directly, but just being seen is
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: not being totally put together in front of your friends.
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I really like that level one through ten. Yeah, when
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: I remember that one. Okay, friendships and conflict. Yeah, the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: title of your book is called Fighting for Our Friendships.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Why is conflict so central to your book?
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: Okay, So there's a lot of content on how to
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: make friends, and I love talking about it. I do,
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I do, And you know, we have so many life
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: transitions that you know you're always going to be having
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: to make friends new friends, right, But I don't see
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: as much content on conflict, and when I do, it
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: feels hyper situational, like, okay, well after this many tries,
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: then stop calling her, Like it's very epic. But it's like,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I want to take an aerial view. What is that about?
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: Like why do we fight over certain things? How do
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: we constitute a violation? It's different from the way that
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: men do. And so I feel like we have more
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: successful and satisfying friendships if we learned how to handle conflict,
• 16:18
  Speaker 3: because it's inevitable. But what's so interesting to me is
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: that we anticipate conflict in every other context. Like I
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: know I might get into it with my coworkers. I know,
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: I'm probably gonna get into it with my boo. Okay,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: we're gonna have to talk, babe. You know. But there's
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: something about friendship where we subscribe to the idea that
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: it should be easy because we just have chemistry, especially
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: if it's with another woman, like like I should have
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: to explain it, like you're a woman. Yeah, we have
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: like intuition, you should know. So when conflict does happen,
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's the only context where it happens.
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: And we suddenly see that conflict as evidence of, oh,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: we're not as compatible as I thought, because this is
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: like awkward. Maybe we're not as closed. And so we're
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: ending friendships prematurely because it's like a foreign concept to
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: push through the conflict with a friend.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: So I have certain friends who and this is always
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: a red flag to me.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I don't really want friends anymore.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Tell me friends that always have conflict with other friends
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: because I know it's coming my way. What is the
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: line between healthy and unhealthy conflict?
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah, because we have some
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: friends who there's always something and it's like, can you
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: can you find some kind of peace like in your life?
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: Any to me?
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: That's unhappiness in yourself?
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: Oh totally? Oh yeah, I mean okay, So I like
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: to just define it like this, you know, you know,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: so if we're in a friendship, I'm bringing my goals,
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: my knees, my preferences, sensitivities to the table and you
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: are too. Okay, at some point there's going to be
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: competing interests. At some point, something I need is something
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: you can't give. It's going to happen. But the difference
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: between healthy and unhealthy is, you know, if it's healthy,
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: we're trying to figure out how to meet this school together.
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: Somebody has the need we're trying to meet. Like it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: it's constructive, so we're talking, looking through it, we're taking
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: space to figure it out to think that's constructive. But
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: as soon as it's like I'm gonna do things to
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: maintain disconnection, what is the point. So that means the
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: silent treatment because I'm upset at you or being punitive
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: women who punish, you know, if she wants to do that,
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: then I'm barely gonna talk to her, then what's the point.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: That's not nice.
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: I'm roping in a third party. I'm telling a friend,
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: but I'm not telling her like you know, she and
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: I we can't see. I like, help me out here.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: That's different. But if it's like, do you feel like
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: sometimes she gets shady? Because I feel like sometimes, what
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: is the point? So when it comes to that tension,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: what are we doing to mend it? And if it's
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: if we're doing things that only deepen the disharmony, that
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: is unproductive.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Speaking of red flags, yes, so you ask your followers
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: to weigh in with their new friend red flags, and
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: the answer from women was overwhelmingly the same.
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what was it her talking about other people?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: Gossip? Yeah?
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: What Susie says? I Sally says more of Susie than
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: of Sally. No one likes a gossiper mm hmm.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: It's bad vibes.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: And we all, like you know, we all have our moments, right,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: like I love some good tea, like she did what
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: you know, But there's something about we just met or
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: were new and our conversation is you tearing down another woman?
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: For most of us, we're taking the message of like Oh, okay,
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: so I wouldn't be safe here. What would she be
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: saying about me? You know? So, so it doesn't do
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: much to help move that friendship forward in a safe.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Way when I'm gonna keep asking you about this line
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: because I think you walk it so beautifully. Gossip can
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: also be bonding sometimes. Barbara Walters, who I love. Everyone
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: who listens to this, no, I knows I love Barbara.
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: She famously was.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: Like, loved gossip.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: It's one thing I differ on, probably you.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: But what's the line between okay gossip, bonding god and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: problematic gossip?
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So Deportannan is a socio linguist who looks at
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: the way women speak the way men speak, and she
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: defines it as are you talking about them or talking
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: against them? And that can help you see, Okay, what
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: are we doing here? Because one of the top topics
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: people talk about is other people just from like a
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: sociological standpoint, and to some degree, gossip is a good thing.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: Like it came to have a negative connotation that we're
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: just like slaming this other person. But you know, historically
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: the word has come to mean something negative, but it
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: really means, like we're talking about a person who's not
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: in the room. To some extent, we have to do
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: that interesting because it helps us establish norms, Like if
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: I come to a new job and people are like, hey,
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: you know, you want to be careful of this behavior
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: because this happens. It's showing me what's acceptable here, what's not,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: who's an ally, who's a foe. So at some point
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: I need that information exchange to know. But there's a
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: difference between we're just like, oh my god, isn't she awful?
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: She is awful? Right, Like she's bad vibes is a
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: totally different objective.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: You know, with someone or against somebody?
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, are you talking about or against? That's really interesting?
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Jealousy, friendship, Jealousy you say sometimes it can be beneficial.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: M M, I don't understand.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: Can you please tell me what you mean? Yeah? Okay. So,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: as I've learned it, the difference between jealousy and envy
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: will start there. So envy requires two people and jealousy
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: involves three. So envy is I want something you have
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I wish that was mine envy, But jealousy means I'm
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: scared that something I have is going to be taken away.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: So if we're tight friends and a new girl comes
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: and you keep talking about how amazing your new coworker is.
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Eventually be like, Okay, okay, that's enough, because I'm jealous
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: over you. I'm jealous that she might take what I
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: already have. Nbia is I want we have. Right, But
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: jealousy could be a good thing in terms of it
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: tends to activate friend keeping behaviors, So it might make
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: me step up and do the things I need to
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: to keep our closeness because I like, well, this might
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: get taken from me, so now I step up. It
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: can be constructive in that way, but in terms of
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: friendship envy kind of like, oh, I'm jealous of you.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: I think it could be helpful in terms of directing
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: me toward the things that I want and desire my life.
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: But as soon as it turns into I'm saying things
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: to humble you because I think you're getting little too
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: or I'm trying to like sabotage and give them the
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: way of you achieving certain things, or I'm trying to
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: tear you down, either verbally or mentally so I feel better. Right, So, like,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: if you get a new apartment and my brain is
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: thinking like why does she get that, Like she doesn't
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: even that's where it would be a problem.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: It's a huge problem.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I feel like you cannot have people around
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: you that don't want the best for you.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I know, it's like a little evil eye.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, that's like a quality that I really don't
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: have time for.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I mean it's hard because we always say, you know,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I want friendships where I can relax me myself, but
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: as soon as you feel like you're always on guard.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: And now I'm measuring what I say and what I
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: share because I don't want her to make a little
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: passive aggressive remark or I don't her to think that
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I think I'm all that. It's a lot of mental labor.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: And you know, safety is like fundamental in a friendship,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: and so if that's not there, I mean, come on.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that safety was such a big deal,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: because I mean, safety is so core of any like
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: it's the core of any relationship, so obviously it would be,
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: but I didn't even think about that. This next question
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: could be maybe my biggest question of the whole interview.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: Okay, yes, friendship expectations.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: So women have friendship expectations that I don't see the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: traditional man having, for instance, birthdays, bachelorette parties, baby showers,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: celebrations of any kind. We are expected to show up
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: and show out in ways that men are just not
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: socially like the norm. Right, I feel like I hear
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: often that these celebrations, particularly weddings, are big sources of conflict.
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: I want to kind of go through some of them
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: with you. But over archingly, why do you think that
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: women expect more out of friendships than men?
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting because the research finds that women
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: have higher expectations of their close relationships in general. So
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: if you're a close relationship in my life, I expect
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: a lot of you, whether it's romantic or platonic. Our
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: expectations are just higher in general than men's. And I mean,
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: there's so many reasons for that. I think that for
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: a woman to woman friendship, it might be what we
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: said earlier about like, I expect that since you're a woman,
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: I expect you to be able to read what I need,
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: read my subtext and micro expressions, anticipate my needs. I
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: shouldn't have to articulate them. And I hear oftentimes women
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: say to me, I mean I should not have to
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: say that, like Danielle, like she should know. Like it's
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: just like crazy to us that I'd have to explain
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: myself because you should know you're walking my exact same shoes.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: And so I think that right there starts to create
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: a little bit of a dissatisfaction.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Is the flip side of that that we if we
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: expect more, do we also get more out of our friendships.
• 25:09
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's if you expect more you get more.
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: I think it's if you communicate more, you get more.
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: Because I think the dissatisfaction we experience is compounded by
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: the fact that we feel like we shouldn't have to
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: say it. But I mean, you're never going to transcend
• 25:21
  Speaker 3: a level of closeness that means you won't have to
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: communicate anymore. I still have to tell my friends, you know,
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: not demands, but like, hey, I think this year I
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: want to I think I want to do it big
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: for my birthday. I never do and this year that
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: would be really important to me. I still have to
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: say that I can't do the whole I mean, it's
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: my birthday. Do I really have to spell that out?
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: It's just I mean, you could hold onto that if
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: you want to, but essentially your friends never really know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: like are we low key? Are we not? Are we?
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: You have to communicate now what happens if the expectations
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: are mismatched with what people are willing to give or
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: show up as. So, for instance, bachelorette parties, I'm gonna personalize.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Yes, hypothetically, I hate bachelorette parties.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: And I know that's like similar to admitting that you
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: don't like dogs.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: So I'm scared to admit this dangerous territory. Very Oh Joe,
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I get you, But tell me why what is it
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: that has you just so turned off by them?
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: Okay?
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: I travel a lot for work and personally, so to
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: carve out travel for a specific bachelorette feels like a
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: lot for me. Yeah, because I don't feel like I'm
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: getting a lot out of the experience, which I know is.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Selfish, but like, I don't like a lot.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Of the common activities. You're inviting me to a spa,
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I'll get on a plane. Yeah, if you're inviting me
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: to wear a penis hat and go out till three am,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: I'm not in. But I'm totally cool if that's your vibe.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to be there, and I'd love
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: to show.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Up for you in a different way.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually don't know if I'm navigating this.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: Well, what would you say to so much?
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: When I ask you? How do you say no? Like
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: when you get that invitation, you see the itinerary, how
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: do you manage that?
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Okay, So one of my really close friends, I actually
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: went because I knew it was really important to her,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: and I was like this, sometimes you need.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: To give in relationship.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: But for friends that I know don't care as much
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: about a bachelorette, I'm like, listen, this is really tough
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: for me with travel and financially. I don't want to
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: upset you. If it's very important to you that i'm there,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: I will show up.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: I'd rather show up for.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: You in a different way, like if we can go
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: to dinner separately and celebrate, etc. And they're usually like,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: I don't give back, you know. And some of my
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: friends even have said to me with the invitation, I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: know they know me enough to say I know this
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: isn't your thing, but you're obviously invited, which I really appreciate.
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: Sure, sure, Yeah, bachelorettes can be tricky. I think it's
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: because it feels like, Okay, I only get one of these,
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: and so you know, from the perspective of the bride,
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: I only get one of these. This is my time.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: I've been looking at examples of this for like thirty years.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: This is my turn, and like such grant expectations. But
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: I was once talking to this therapist who specializes in
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: helping women during their wedding season, because so what Carara
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: the bridal coach, shout out to her. But she was saying,
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: and it was like such brilliant advice. She said that
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: sometimes a bride is so fixated on the vision she
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: loses sight of the relationships. And you were trying to
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: fit those relationships into the vision, and you're gonna have
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: to do some soul searching. Really, you're considering ending a
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: friendship because you have a friend who can't make it,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: can't afford it, doesn't want to do certain activities that
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: she feels like are compromising for her. Now you're questioning
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: the entire relationship. And I get being disappointed. I get
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: having the picture of all my favorite girls in one
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: spot celebrating me. At the same time, it's very romantic,
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: it's very fun. Idea but you know, you're going to
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: have to call into question like, Okay, what evidence has
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: this woman given me over the course of our friendship
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: that she supportive, attentive down for me. Okay, if this
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: is inconsistent with everything else she's done, I'm gonna have
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: to just just be bummed and move on. But I'm sorry,
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I see too many of these conversations on social that
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: are like, well she does an X y Z, she's
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: not a real friend, and that list is just getting
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: really long and really specific, and at the end of
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: the day, whether it's wedding, bridal party, whatever, just the
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: context of the history of our friendship outweigh this moment
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: where I really want something and she can't make it,
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: I mean, a little nuanced you know.
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Well, Also, it feels like in this day and age,
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: it's got this celebration has gotten really large. Like it's
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: one thing if you're asking everyone in that city to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: come to dinner one night, versus like travel to New
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Orleans and meet me there for three days and take
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: off a day of work right bye, you know, like
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: it's just a lot.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I think, yeah, mm hmmm.
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: I think for the woman in that role, like look
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: at how many barriers are erected during your ask. So
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: if it's commute time off, money, I mean like you
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: have to really think through those things because their costs,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: they are financial. Whatever, I'm away from my babies for
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: three days. What are all the costs that are required
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: of friends to show up for you? And that's somebody
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: you got to be kind of practical.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I love the part of your book where you talk
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: about weddings. I don't like everyone needs to read the
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: book because it's just it's so it was.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I savored it.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you for saying that.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: It is. I mean it to my core. It is
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: so freaking great and fun to read. Oh good, Okay,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: it really made me think, one I want everyone to
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: read the wedding section. But the one thing that stood
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: out to me was you said a lot of friendships
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: end around that time.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Why is that?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: You know? It makes me kind of like annoyed when
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: people dismiss wedding stuff. Is like, oh gosh, here we
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: go with the drama, and it's like, well, yeah, because
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: this is the one time in your life you're expected
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: to put your friendships on display and to rank them.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: So maybe my whole life I've been thinking, I'm like,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: you're number one girl, and when you choose somebody else
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: to be the maid of honor, you've got me questioning everything.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: And I mean, this is client after client I've had
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: these conversations with We're talking like reasonable women who are like,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: she didn't choose me, and I don't know if I
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: want to continue the friendship. And I don't think it's
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: petty because they're calling into question. Wait a second, have
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: I been a fool? I've been thinking we're super tight
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: and for you to select this other person makes me
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: question my place in your life. And the research does
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: show that mutual prioritization is very important for women. So
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: if I'm your number two girl, I like to feel
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: like you know you're my number two girl. It makes
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: me feel good. Yes, And so as soon as you
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: discover that you're like number four but you've been thinking
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: you're number one, you're trying to kind of gauge what
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: that means, and it's really hard.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Do you think what parties should be abolished?
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: I can't tell a woman what to do. I will
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: say I am happy to see women leaning into saying
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'm not going to have a bridal party.
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: I'm just gonna skip it. I'm seeing them do that
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: more and I am hearing them report a certain level
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: of joy and freedom and making that decision.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: So, speaking of this bridal party stuff, you cite a
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: study in your book that says that only half of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: friendships are reciprocal, which.
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I was actually very shocked by that.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: How do you not get your feelings hurt by a
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: friend that's not reciprocal or doesn't rank us as high
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: as you rank them.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know how you not get your feelings hurt.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: You will get your feelings hurt. And I will say,
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a relatively small study, but I will
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: say it matches stories women I've shared with me. I'm
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: seeing it reflected in real life, and I mean, just
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: when we think about it, it can be hurtful when
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: we discover this. But your friends lives have been constructed
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: in such a way over the course of their lifetime
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: that perhaps you're like their number four girl. And I'm
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: saying these numbers very arbitrarily. But perhaps you don't rank
• 33:10
  Speaker 3: as high in her life as you rank her in
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: your life because of how her life's been designed. You
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: have to ask yourself, is it worth me letting it
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: go because I discovered she doesn't hold me as close
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: as I hold her. Now we're not saying the respect
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: looks you should feel respect. I feel safe with you.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: But if I realize my girl is like kind of
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: has another bestie and it looks like they might be
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: closer than she is with me, I can see that
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: being kind of hurtful. But you have to step back
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: and ask herself. Hold on, if I call her, does
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: she show up? Does she have my back? Do we
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: laugh when we're together? If I need something she's there?
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: Does she teach me new things? If all of that's
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: in place, I don't know. I've just found more joy
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: and my friends. Was being able to do that? If
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: I have sense that a friend's kind of close with
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: somebody else, and it's like, oh, if when we're together,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: we're together and we can all pardoner have a good time,
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: can I find a way to not get distracted by
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: the closeness Olympics and instead be able to enjoy what
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: we do have.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: Tell me if you find this too in your friendships.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I find a lot of things change seasonally, So, like
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: you know, if I'm in the same sort of time
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of life, as my friend for instance, like I don't
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: have kids yet, my friends that have kids, I see
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: them getting a little closer because they're bonding over different things.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: And my friends that are single, we're bonding and one.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: It kind of ebbs and flows, and you don't want
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: to just throw away those friendships because you're in a
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: different season.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: I believe women's lives change more rapidly and drastically than
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: men's lives through the life cycle for a lot of
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: different reasons. But because of that, I think that there
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: are those traditional periods that make us kind of think like, wait,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: I can't relate to you anymore? What's happening? Everything feels
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: so different and new, and you know, in those times,
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: we have to ask ourselves like like give ourselves a
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: little bit of grace because we've never had practice being
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: friends this way, you know. So I think a lot
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: of us go to like, oh my god, it's happening, Like, yeah,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: I can't relate to her. She's not showing up for me. Well,
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: she's never had a friends with a baby before, so
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: she doesn't really know, like what do I do here?
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: What do I even ask about? Maybe she doesn't want
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: to dedicate the brain cells to asking about the differences
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: between diaper cream, you know what I'm saying. So I
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: have to be like, Okay, she's not gonna be as
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: invested in this conversation as I am because it's not
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: her world. But she still demonstrates interest, but she can't relate.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: And what I've found is that if you guys can
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: find a way to figure out, Okay, how do we
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: want to be friends in this new stage? I mean
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: in talking about it the way you wouldn't a romantic
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: relationship again, if you send something changing with your manner
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: and be like, Okay, babe, what's happening with us? I
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: don't feel connected? What's going on with the friends? We're like, oh,
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: I guess, I guess this is it, or we're like
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: trying to read subtexts in her text like yeah, okay,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: well she's been acting. We're trying to decode same thing. Hey,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: I feel like since I've had a baby, like you
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: and I feel off. I miss you, I miss you,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: and I know things are weird, but like I'm trying
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: to figure out how we can still like stay strong,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you know, like why can't we normalize doing that with
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: the friends to help her feel called in to help
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: her feel your top of mind. For me, I'm acknowledging
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: the change, so it's not like a secret we keep
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: dancing around. It feels weird, right, What are we going
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: to do to stay connected? And the last thing I'll
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: say is something I found to take the pressure off
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: of my friends being able to keep up with my
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: changing lifestyle is having community to supplement those relationships. So
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: if I'm a new mom and I find myself growing
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: increasingly frustrated that my friends don't get it, maybe I
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: need to be in a mommy group where I can
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: geek out on mommy stuff and I feel seen, I
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: feel affirmed in that very specific way. And now I
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: find myself releasing friends from the expectation to have this
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: knowledge and investment. You know, So as long as they're
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: demonstrating care and affirming that identity like I recognize your mom,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: then can I find a way to just manage expectations?
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: That is so proactive and awesome.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: I love that idea, like, go search for what you're
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: looking for instead of putting all of the expectations on
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: one person. Correct, that's fabulous because we don't do that
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: in romantic relationships either, right, like, if you're dating someone
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: who doesn't like golf, you're not gonna necessarily make them golf, right, Okay,
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: you say, we are only trying to answer the same
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: two questions when it comes to friendships.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: What are they?
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: So we're trying to ask, you know, can I love
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: fully here? And who is going to love me fully? Like?
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: I want to love and I want to be loved,
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: and you know, we get into the details, which are
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: important because we need to know the day to day
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: business of friendship. But essentially you're only asking those two questions. Ever,
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: if it's a question about like texting and she doesn't
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: text me as much as I or she didn't show
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: up for my thing, and does she you're really asking
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: about does she love me as much as I love her?
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: You know? Does she love me? Am I overinvested in this?
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I mean really, it's always strips down to trying to
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: answer those two questions. And I feel like keeping that
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: in mind will help us when there is conflict because
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: we get caught in those details. Essentially, you need to
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: you're trying to be reassured she cares as much as
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I do, and I am safe to love freely. It's
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: always that and I feel like it's just something to
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: cling to when you find yourself losing sight of like Okay,
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: well she was late two times but you know, or
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: she didn't respond to my story, but she is like
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: active on social but she didn't respond. When we get
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: into that, it's really because you're starting to be suspicious
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: that she's in love you as much as you love her,
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: or that your love's being taken for granted. It's the
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: same two things. And so I would just advise any
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: woman who's feeling caught up in the ups and downs
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: of this week's scenario, if you got honest with yourself,
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: is it really about those two things? And then what
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: can you do to go and get some security for
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: those two questions.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: I love how no matter what I come at you with,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: you have a zoomed out perspective of what this relationship
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: is and it really gives people so much grace.
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: Oh, I'm so glad. And you know what, Honestly, I
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: think it's because, like keeping it real, I've been on
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: both sides, like you know, and I think the feedback
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: that I hear from people that I really appreciate the
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: most When people say, like, gosh, you're never really villified
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: one person or the other. And I don't want to
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: be the girl who's like I mean, I see both sides.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I see both sides, but essentially, like, yes, I've been
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: the friend who's disappointed people. I've been the friend who's
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: been disappointed. It's just too easy to vilify the girl
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: who didn't show up to the thing, or who doesn't
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: text back, or who cancel plans with you to go
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: with her. Man Like, that's annoying. But it's too easy
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: to be like, ah, fake friend. She's a fake friend.
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: She's a person who's gonna make choices to disappoint you,
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: and you're gonna have to figure out, okay, is this
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: happening so frequently that I don't feel safe here? But
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: as far as the she is fake, so I'm done
• 39:34
  Speaker 3: with hers. Just it's just too easy and it's reductive.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Can you guess the number one most common complaint after
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: any first date, first meeting, or interview, I wish they
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: had asked me more questions. I studied the art of
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: conversation for a decade, and I know one thing for sure.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: The most interesting thing is to be interested. But sometimes
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: it can be awkward to enter a conversation, or you
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: just don't know what to ask. Here's the solution, two words,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: question Everything. This game is like a superpower in your
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: pocket because questions are an accelerator.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: There are way in I put.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Together a deck of cards of fifty two of my
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: favorite questions, ones that have sparked some of the most
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: meaningful and insightful conversation in not just my career, but
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: also my life. Some are light and fun, and some
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: are deeper and more reflective. These fifty two questions will
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: build any relationship, trust, intimacy, connection. It all starts with curiosity.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Get your deck today at www dot Pretty smartshop dot
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: com or head to my Instagram at Danielle Robe and
• 40:55
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  Speaker 1: friend's dinner, party, a birthday, or a date, just know,
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Question Everything is not a game. It's a game changer.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: When I was growing up, I had really high expectations
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: of friends because I was always like ten going on
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: thirty five, Like I feel like I'm thirty three and like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm finally at the level with all my friends,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: Like we all have the same expectations now, But when
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: I was younger, I had like I wanted them to
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: eat loyal, and I was I had very high expectations,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: and my dad would always be like Danielle. Different friends
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: for different reasons, and I could never get it because
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: I wanted somebody to be all the things I've grown
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: up to realize. Different friends for different reasons is a
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: really great mantra. When do you know when it is
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: time to release a friend? How do you know if
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: it's I have a hard time. I think all women
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: do throwing away friendships, especially if there's history there.
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: When do you know it is time to let go?
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: Sometimes there are the egregious, obvious ones that we know of.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: If a person's constantly lying, you know, things like that,
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: so goes back to that trust and safety that we
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: talked about. If a friend is talking about you like
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: I'm nice with you, but then I'm saying things that
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: tear you down, so we know some of the obvious ones. Right,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: she does something so explicitly hurtful, You're like, we can't
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: keep doing this. I think the ones that feel a
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: little more tender and gray are Okay, I do love her,
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: but I also feel like I don't have the energy
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: to put into it anymore. And I think the main
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: driving force of this friendship is the history, you know,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: so it becomes like an obligatory friendship, like she's been
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: here twenty years. I mean, it'd be messed up. Even
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: though I find myself not relating to her, not caring
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: to call to get the life updates anymore, just some
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: kind of like meth I think those are harder to
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: figure out. And honestly, I think the first sign that like,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: maybe it should end is if you're constantly wondering if
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: you should Yeah, might be one sign, you know. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: then also making sure it's not a matter of you know,
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: she held you accountable for something or you're just you.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: Guys are facing conflict, so being able to differentiate is
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: this whole thing coming to a close, or am I
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: uncomfortable with this weird season we're in of having some
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: tension over this thing. You have to be able to
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: tell the difference. But I know that it's really hard
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: when women do arrive to the conclusion of like, I
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: think this is done and knowing how to articulate that
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: because it feels risky.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to I was debating whether I was going
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: to ask you this or not on camera, but I'm
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: going to go for it.
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: A friend.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I had a friend that I've been friends with since
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: I was like ten years.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Old who did an agregious thing.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: My boyfriend, like in twenty seventeen, broke up with me
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: and we were still living together, and one night he
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: didn't come home and.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: I was beside myself.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: I was going through I was like Carrie and Sex
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and the City, like going through Burgers apartment. I was
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: looking at everything, couldn't find anything. He wouldn't answer my calls.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: And this friend is always up early, and I said,
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: you know what, I'm just going to drive to her house.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: It's like six blocks away because it's early and I
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: need to like climb in.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Bed with her and just like I can't be alone.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: I'm freaking out.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me on the edge of my seat right now.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: So I drive to her apartment and she has two
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: windows beside her door, and I'd knock on the door,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: no answer.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: So I look through the window and they're on the couch.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: They're not touching, but they're on the couch together, and
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: neither of them had been answering my calls. So I
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: was heartbroken for a lot of reasons. Right, I was
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: actually more heartbroken by her than him, because right I
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: had no at that point, I didn't have as many
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: expectations from him or with him. She and I are
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: still friends. I love her deeply, I do not trust
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: her the same way, and all of my other friends
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: cannot believe that we are still friends. It was not
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: a relationship I was willing to let go of.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: I still hold on to it a little bit. In
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: your expert opinion, what do you think?
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: Wow, okay, I'll say this. Let me see that you
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: hear the ambulance.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like a friendship emergency.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: So I get a lot of messages that are like
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: essay style, bah, should I end it or not? And
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: I know this might not be satisfying, but I always say,
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: like girl, at the end of the day, I'm not
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: here to qualify your friendships. I see my role as
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: offering things for you to consider as you make that decision.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: But to be like, yeah, I basically everything he said.
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: End that. You know what I'm saying. But if you
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: have determined Hey, that was a weird moment. We talked
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: about it something I'm not sure, but when I look
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: at what value this offers me and the discomfort or
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: whatever damage that was done, and I weigh them out,
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: for me, offers more value than it does pain or disappointment.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: That is for you to decide. And if there was
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: discomfort and it was disruptive and you all are finding
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: or have found ways to kind of repair or mend,
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: that's your business, you know. Even if your friends who
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: love your like let that go. If you have determined
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: it offers more value than pain or disappointment or discomfort,
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: and then that is for you to decide. And if
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: you both are showing up intentionally pouring into it to grow,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: to repair whatever ruptures emerged, that is for you to
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: to decide.
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like it was not of her character,
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: so I was okay, But it's I appreciate that perspective.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: I really like that.
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And I hear that because you know, I've been
• 46:50
  Speaker 3: through something and I shared a story in the book
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: that I like, deleted and put back in and deleted
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: and put back in because of like, Okay, I like
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: to look like I have it together where I made choices.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: I don't want to give it up.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah that friends were like that's not cool and was embarrassed,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: was like mortified, And so that's why I say, I
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: can see both sides. But what I love is what
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: you just said of like it was so not her
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: that I was like, Okay, when I look at things
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: whole picture, it's something I still want to fight for,
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: and so I respect.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: That fighting for friends.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: What our behaviors to adopt to become a better friend.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: I saw in one of your tiktoks you say we
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: should work on expressing platonic desire more. Yeah, like what
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: does that mean? Platonic desire? What does that look like?
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: So we all want to feel desired, Like I even platonically,
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: I want to know that my friends are somewhere like man,
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: I miss Danielle, Like it feels good right, But I
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: think we I often say, like even the word romance,
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: if you look up the definition, it says something about like,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: you know, to delight and like curiosity. So to some extent,
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: how can you have a little romance in your friendships?
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking of you. You look so pretty in this picture.
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: I'm taking you out tomorrow, like, you know, in a safe,
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: appropriate way. But how can I give myself permission to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: actively express how much I want you in my life,
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: how much I appreciate you, instead of doing things like
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: oh my god, like you should know we've been friends
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: for so long.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it is so fun to spoil your girls. Yeah,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and to feel.
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: Spoiled by your girlfriends.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: I agree, there's something about that that's very cool.
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Do you have any advice for ambitious people? I feel
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: like my ambitious friends all talk about this issue. They
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: care so deeply about their friendships because they are ambitious
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: about friendship and they are also overwhelmed by what is
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: required to be a great friend and build whatever it
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: is they're doing.
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: So I hear you saying for women who are like
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: either managers or entrepreneurs, like high achieving women and friendship,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: how do they kind of like balance that? Yeah?
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it could be also for people
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: who are moms.
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: Right, Like, that's really exhausting.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: How do you balance, you know, like, when you are
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: an overworked, underpaid person so many of us are, how
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: do you balance friendship and everything you have going on?
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, that's such a great question. Because I know
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: so many of us feel that way, like I want
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: to be a good friend that I don't know if
• 49:17
  Speaker 3: I have it at me. The first thing I'll say
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: is burnout is real where we feel so overwhelmed with
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: the volume of demand in our lives that we feel
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: like we don't have it to give. So I want
• 49:30
  Speaker 3: to start there because I know women have that heart.
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: I want to show up. I don't think I even can,
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: and I want to validate that. I will also say
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: I think it's helpful to reframe what you think a
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: good friend is because if for you it is a
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: lot of gestures and a lot of going out and
• 49:46
  Speaker 3: a lot of then you are going to say, okay, okay,
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: I don't think I have all that to give. And
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: I like to think that a lot of us can
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: increase being a good friend by just like one degree,
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: by being active on the things you already think. Because
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of us we do think about our friends often,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: or we see something that comes to mind, I think
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: being active on the thing you already do would be
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: a big, like a huge step and require less lifts. So,
• 50:12
  Speaker 3: for example, if I'm in Target and I see something
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: and it reminds me of her, like to snap a
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: picture and send it, I mean like really on the spot.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: But for the person receiving it's such like augh, oh,
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: like you.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Don't even have to buy it for them, just off
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: a photo. I love that.
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: I mean really that's it, because again it goes to
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: those questions of like do you care about me? So
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: to know that today I crossed your mind, or to
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: like activate a memory, which nostalgia is really powerful and
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: bonds people. So even to snap a picture of a
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: mug and be like, oh my god, this reminds me
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: of spring Break two thousand and two, and can be like,
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: oh my god, I don't you know so, but just
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: that moment, like it's like it's a reminder of like
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: me and you alone in this vault, right, like our
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: private little bubble. And so those things activate it. And
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: then if you do feel like you're coming into a
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: season where you're overwhelmed, to even frontload it, like I
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: care enough to tell you I'm going to be out
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: of commission for a while, so to even say like
• 50:58
  Speaker 3: I'm starting to feel really over with all the mom
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: stuff and I just want you to know, like even
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: if I'm not texting you, I'm thinking of you and
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: if you guys go out and I can't make it
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: like I want to be there. I just need you
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: to know that. I mean that right there is like okay,
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: you care about me. Yeah, and so I mean even
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: if you don't have it to give, I think telling friends,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: I want to be there for you. It's important to
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: me to show up for you. Those conversations help people
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: to feel safety and supported. It's not all the little
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: like then know her twenty dollars for coffee and sometimes
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: cender flower like it's those are really cute gestures, but
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: also it's the simple things. It's asking about an update
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: she shared with you last week. That is a big one.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: I hear that often for a women is like I
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: don't know. I feel like she doesn't care, Like she
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: didn't even ask me about it. I told her about
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: exporting that she hasn't even asked sense, I mean literally
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: being like unprompted. Hey, you mentioned that thing with your
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: dad last week. Everything good, Just that it shows me
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: you were attentive, you care enough to ask. You're invested
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: in my life. So rethink what being a good friend
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: means and how much activity, hours and money is associated
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: with the image that comes to your mind, and can
• 52:07
  Speaker 3: you do a little rethinking of what it looks like
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: to show up.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: One of the things that I love, or that at
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: least resonates with me of what I'm hearing you say,
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: is to say the things that are unsaid.
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that is really powerful. Yeah, but we've got to
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: have the permission because we do in every other place.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: And it feels weird where women are like, Okay, does
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: that look thirsty or it feels vulnerable because if you
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: don't know if she feels the same way, does it
• 52:30
  Speaker 3: feel very vulnerable to like lean into looking in her
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: eyes and being like, ah, but I mean, I just
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: I know. I appreciate it when friends are like, hey,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: thank you so much for yesterday. It's just like I
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: feel so connected to them.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: That is so beautiful.
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Meeting new friends after school, whether it's high school, college,
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: this is a question that I.
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: Get most often. Oh, I'm always like, join a group,
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: join a volleyball team.
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: I hate volleyball.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know, so, like, you have great advice on this.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: What should people do when they are adult and trying
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: to make a friend.
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: That is definitely the number one question I get, and
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: I get it, but I'll say it typically comes with
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: some kind of qualifiers. So people want to know, how
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: do I make friends after college in a new city,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: as a new mom, as a debar say, and I
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: hope that it shows us that we will always be
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: having to make new friends, so we better figure it out.
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: And I like to lean into that because a lot
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: of women feel shamed that they're even in that position. Oh,
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: I should already have my friend group. I'm thirty five,
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: stop it. And the research tells us that we replace
• 53:34
  Speaker 3: about half of our friends every seven years, which says
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: to me that we should expect some level of pruning,
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: like a natural process of people coming out and then
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: the churn bringing new people in. So we better figure
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: out how to make them because it's going to keep happening.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: When your husband dies and your kids get out the house,
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: I mean like you're going to have to start over.
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: So there are three things I can give that's kind
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: of like dark in my no. When my husband dies
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: and you're like, oh my god, I need new.
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: Friends, obviously, well outlive them, that's what it's saying.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: Because obviously he won't be here long, so you're gonna
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: need to know. But yeah, okay, So I can give you.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Three things, right, Okay.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: So the first I would say is to get comfortable
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: leveraging technology. And I feel like gen Z is like
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: very open to this, and the rest of us are like,
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It doesn't make you desperate, it makes
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: you very resourceful. And so apps like Bumble for Friends,
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: I know is very popular. And if you have unconventional
• 54:21
  Speaker 3: work hours, if you are in a new city and
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: you're looking for like where's the diversity or whatever it is,
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: I can go into this place, show what I'm looking
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: for in this particular you know, vicinity, and find my people.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: So it kind of expedites the process of finding your people.
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: The one thing I'll say with that is you need
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: to get into real life as soon as possible. So
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: this whole we're dming for three months, we're not doing that. Okay,
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: it looks like we click, she has good rapport, Let's
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: meet in your life. The second thing I would say
• 54:48
  Speaker 3: is to become more regular somewhere. So a lot of
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: us like romanticize how things used to be when we
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: were in school, and it was so much easier. It's
• 54:55
  Speaker 3: because we were clocking hours together. Because I saw your
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: face all the time, you're the option, so let's sit
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: together at lunch, you know. And it also lends itself
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: to something known as the mere exposure effect. And the
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: idea is that we tend to prefer people just because
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: they're familiar. So if I see a familiar face and
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: a totally new face, I'm going to lean to the
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: one I've kind of seen before. So how can you
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: make that work in your favor? Can I work from
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: the same coffee shop every Friday at nine? Can I
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: walk my dog in the same area every day? You know,
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: being mindful of safety and things, but those things make
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: you irregular, and it feels less intimidating to be like, hey,
• 55:29
  Speaker 3: what's up because I see your face all the time.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: And the last thing I'll say is leverage the support
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: of super connectors. So you probably are one. I know
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: I'm one. Like we're those girls who are like, oh
• 55:39
  Speaker 3: my god, you should meet my friend so and so
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: that person, even if you two aren't close, but you
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: probably know that girl, right, that girl, And so it's
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: just like, how can you ask her, you know, send
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: the message that says something like I'm looking to get
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: more plugged in, and I thought of you because you're
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: always out in a bout and doing something interesting. So
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: I thought I would ask, so you know of any
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: events around town that you think are worth checking out
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: or any groups that should like get involved in. And
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: the average person is happy to help, like that's flattering
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: you thought I could help you. And best case scenario,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: you even get an invitation to be a plus one,
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: so they might say, oh yeah, oh my god, I'm
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: in the book club. You should come. But you can't
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: expect to get the need met if you will not
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: make the need known.
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: It's really really well said, so good. Okay, last question,
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: you outline a specific type of friend that people are
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: going to encounter. I want to run down of these archetypes.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: The first is the flaky friend who's she she sounds annoying.
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: Well, I know because I've been her. No, the girl
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: who you can't really rely on her. So if she
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: says i'll be there at ten, or if she says okay,
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: I'll send you that link or okay, and there's a
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: party that's like she's probably not going to And some
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: people see it's quirky and they're like, I'm not bothered
• 56:55
  Speaker 3: by it. But others are very bothered by it because
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: it feels like she doesn't care, feels disrespectful of her
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: time of your time, and so it's something you have
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: to negotiate because sometimes again we'll be like, oh, well
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: she bailed on lunch, so I don't know, I'm just
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: done with her. Have I ever said, girl, I love
• 57:13
  Speaker 3: spending time with you, and when you cancel, like it
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: messes up there to my day, like I carved out
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: time to make this happen. You know, you can negotiate,
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: But if she hears that and is still like, well,
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, like that's just who I am who I am,
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: then you would have to figure out if that's something
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: you can work with.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: The clinging friend.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, the clinging friend. We all know that friends. You
• 57:35
  Speaker 3: know she wants more than you can give. It feels
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: it feels like the skales are unbalanced. You might experience
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: this as a lot of text messages, a lot of
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: bids for attention, more than you like, faster than you
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: can keep up with. She may express, you know, jealousy
• 57:50
  Speaker 3: over seeing you hang out with other girls instead of her.
• 57:53
  Speaker 3: Things like that They make you feel a little suffocated
• 57:56
  Speaker 3: and overwhelmed. You know, I know people are very familiar
• 57:58
  Speaker 3: with attachment styles. It's either that you're experiencing her as
• 58:01
  Speaker 3: clingy because she is very anxious and eager, or because
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: you're avoidant so it feels clinky to you because you
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: only want to talk like once every three months, and
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: she's like, can I talk to you like once a week?
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: You know? So again, negotiating is the key, So how
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: can I tell her, you know, not that she's too much,
• 58:19
  Speaker 3: because we want to be careful about causing other women
• 58:22
  Speaker 3: complexes and damaging them in the process. So I'm going
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: to be careful over you. I'm not going to tell
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: you you're too much, but I might say, hey, I
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: prefer to catch up on weekends, so I'm probably not
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: going to be good with like the daily text messages. Right,
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: what day works for you, like a Saturday or Sunday?
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: So you want to communicate your own limitations.
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: Correct instead of like you just do too much or
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: like it's like a little too much for me. You know.
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: It gives people like so to say like, hey, I'm
• 58:45
  Speaker 3: a little more low key with check ins. They're not
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: as frequent for me. That's kind of like my sweet spot.
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: So do you just want to meet up, you know,
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: every other weekends, you know, or if she sees you
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: with other friends and it's like, oh, I thought you
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: were busy, but you're Yeah.
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: No.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: When I say I'm busy, I mean, like, you know,
• 58:59
  Speaker 3: it's important to me that I see all my friends,
• 59:01
  Speaker 3: and I'm trying to rotate everybody in and spend family time,
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: and so that probably won't let us do like back
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: to back weekends. But I definitely want to see that
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: movie with you that we're talking about. Oh my god,
• 59:10
  Speaker 3: can we pu please go next month? Because I can't
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: wait to see it with you.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: You know. There's a term that someone taught me called
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: light and bright ooh, and I try and harness that,
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: and you do it so much because you're What you're
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: saying is like say it all with a positive spin. Yeah,
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: like just say that movie. I really want to see
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: that with you.
• 59:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, light and bright?
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally Okay.
• 59:32
  Speaker 2: The last one is the negative friend.
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, Sush. Some of us know her very well, right,
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: and it can come in different forms. Negative in terms of, Okay,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: everything sucks in my life all the time. It can
• 59:45
  Speaker 3: be negative in terms of being really critical of your choices.
• 59:48
  Speaker 3: She always has something to say, and you didn't ask,
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: and she's telling you, like how it doesn't measure up,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: so that negativity we can experience a lot of different ways.
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: This is so tricky because one of the reasons we've
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: value our friendship so much because we do have a
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: space to be like, oh my god, the world, the patriarchy,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: and you have somebody who's like, oh my god, I know.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: And one of the benefits of friendship is I have
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: somebody to take my troubles too. The thing, though, is
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: that if we expect that your friend should be your therapist.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: I know, some people say she is, I get it,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: but they're not, though, And I can help you through
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: some things, but you cannot expect me to have the
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: skills and availability of a therapist. It's not fair to me.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: I'm your friend, not your counselor. And so we have
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 3: to manage that. And then finally I'll say, you know,
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: the gotman who are like relationship ogs. You know, they
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: often say that successful relationships have a positivity to negativity
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: ratio of five to one. So for every negative interaction,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: you need like five positives to override it, just because
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: of how much we weigh negative interactions, So if you
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: took a if you got in a helicopter and looked out,
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: you know, over your friendship landscape, how many of the
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: last ten interactions were negative. That's all I'm saying.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: I was just thinking about that with a friend. I
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: was like, I'm always drained when I leave this phone call.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: And I was like, at first, I thought, well, I
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: think I'm providing more value than I'm getting in this relationship.
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: And I don't really like looking at friendships that way.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: And I think what I really felt was the five
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: to one.
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I like some point, yeah, like we're here
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: because it's it is a totally elective relationship. At the
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: end of the day, You're not a person I signed
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: a government contract to Mary, You're not my child, Like
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: I'm choosing to be here. So yes, use me when
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: you need me, you know, for something hard and to
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: go through hardship with you. But it's got to have
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: some degree of a fun and pleasure enlightness. That's why
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 3: we're friends, you know you It brings joy and pleasure
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: to my life as well, and so it's just easy.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: It's really easy to kind of co ruminate and to
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: talk about our boss sucks, Like if we're work besties. Yeah,
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: but at some point somebody used to say, Okay, let's
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: give ourselves ten minutes and then like let's go get
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: ice cream because I'm so over talking about it. You know,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: it's not dismissive. It's some times light. Yeah, it's light
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 3: and bright.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, rapid fire. Danielle, what is your favorite
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: activity to do solo?
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 3: Read love that you were meant to be on this podcast?
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Your favorite activity to do with friends?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 3: Oh, sit on the back patio and run our mouths.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: We don't have to go anywhere, we don't have to
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: like give a big tip to servers. We could just
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: like sit run our mouths in a low key space.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 3: And that's just like that's my favorite.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: Thing me too. I want to be on someone's couch.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: Love that you're in Florida so you could be on
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: a backpath. Okay, a routine habit that keeps you sane.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: I like to journal in the mornings. I know that's
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 3: not like revolutionary, but it does work for me. It
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: works to wake up, to pray, to spend some alone time,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 3: and to just kind of get those first thoughts out
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: has been really helpful.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: Your book dedication.
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with book dedications. I feel like this is
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: your first book. There's a lot of like who and
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: what do I dedicate this to?
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: How did you come up with yours?
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah? So mine was, you know, to all the girls
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 3: I've loved before, because the book is about fighting for
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: it when you have something good. And I know that
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: there are friendships that I ended prematurely because I didn't
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: know better, or because I was stubborn or unequipped to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: like have hard conversations, and so sometimes you know, I
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: you know, have thought about them in terms of like
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: the one that got away friendship wise, and so this
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: book is everything that I've learned and just kind of
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: like my dedication to the girls that could have maybe
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: still been in my life if I knew better.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Why'd you get emotional and you said that did you
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: think about someone in particular?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah? I just you know, I think I have to
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: do the work in my brain to say, you know what,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: I learned lessons from it and I can grow and
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: apply that moving forward. And I do think I have
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: current friends who would say Daniel's a good friend, but
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: it's because I've been a bad one. So of course
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: I'm learning and now I'm like, Okay, I got this,
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: but it's because I've been stubborn, or I've been a chameleon,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: or I've been too sassy, too hard, too cold. I've
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: been all those things, and so sometimes I feel like
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like the ghost of Christmas past when
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: you're like or ghost of Christmas future. So I feel
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: like I'm telling women, like, trust me, if you continue
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 3: to be hard or cooled, or you don't get your
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: self esteem together and so you tolerate mistreatment, all those
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: things are going to cost you healthy, satisfying friendships. And
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: so at the heart of all of this is like
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: doing the own self work so that you can be
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: in good relationships. And I'm glad that I'm figuring it out,
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: but it has cost me some along.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: The way, as somebody who had a hard time with
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: vulnerability in the past. Thank you for sharing that and
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: for being cvilulnerable. I thought your whole book was very vulnerable,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: not just your own stories, but.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: How you wrote it.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Because I feel emotional that every girl that reads this
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: book will take a look in the mirror and think
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: about all the girls that they've loved before and all
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: the girls they will still love in the future and
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: friendships are really tricky and beautiful and all of the things.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: And I just think you're going to help a lot
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: of people with this book.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, I appreciate you so much. That's my That is
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: my prayer always, is that for the woman who's holding it.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't I can't say that this will
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: be the book that solves all your problems, but I
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: really do hope that it helps you confront some things,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: and it helps you to more freely love other women,
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: and that it brings healing to women who need, you know,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: some encouragement. So that's that's the prayer always.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: Okay, my last three questions that I ask everybody, it's
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: a book you read that changed your life, something you
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: think everybody should read.
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: Ooh, there is a book called The Relationship Principles of Jesus,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: and it's just nice to see these portraits of Okay,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: how did he talk to people, how did he forgive?
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: How did he share truth? And it is definitely life changing.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: I'll also say the book Platonic by doctor Marsa Franco
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: is like crazy awesome and I think everybody should read it.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: I'm going to give you these fifty if you can pick.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 3: Good. Okay, Iny, this was coming. This one says, what
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: do you want to be known for? Very on brand,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: I would say I want to be known for helping
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: people see friendship differently. I think that's my most flattering
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 3: compliment is when people say like, wow, I never thought
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 3: about it that way. That makes me feel really good.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: So I hope to bring that experience to women through
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: the book.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 1: Danielle, what's the smartest decision you've ever made?
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: Oh? I think for me personally, I think having children,
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 3: which was very a very conscious choice do we want
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 3: to do this? And it's brought a lot of joy
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 3: to my life, and I'm so glad we made that decision.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 2: When did you do it for the first time?
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: I think I was like thirty one at the time.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: So my children are now five and two, and it's
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: just really cool and I'm you know, I'm learning a
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: lot of things through them, that they are their own people,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: and they have their own personalities and interest and I'm
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 3: just learning a lot by watching them every day. So
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: I'm really glad that we lean to the parenthood because
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: it's taught me a lot and shape me as a woman.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: I have to give you a hug. This was my
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: favorite conversation and so.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: Really yes, oh my gosh, I am apreciate you. Oh,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: thank you so much.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: To have a good day. I'll see you next week