Latest / The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine / Bruce Fitzhugh and Rocky Gray: Living Sacrifice | Furnace Fest 2025 Series

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Bruce Fitzhugh and Rocky Gray: Living Sacrifice | Furnace Fest 2025 Series · The BlackSheep Podcast: Presented by HM Magazine

0:08
Speaker 1: God help you. Gray.
0:30
Speaker 2: I've got Rocky and Bruce from a Living sacrifice. Bruce
0:34
Speaker 2: is a returner and Rocky this is your first time
0:37
Speaker 2: on the podcast. Just really excited for you both to
0:39
Speaker 2: be on here. We're going to talk all about the
0:41
Speaker 2: hammering process, your guys, upcoming show at Furnace Fest, and
0:44
Speaker 2: I'm sure other things will come up. But before we
0:46
Speaker 2: dive into all of that, how do you do? How
0:48
Speaker 2: are you doing today, Bruce? And how are you doing today, Rocky?
0:51
Speaker 3: I'm good. Thanks for having us. We appreciate it.
0:58
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah, Bruce, I know you you said
1:00
Speaker 2: that you were just in Arkansas with the guys. Do
1:03
Speaker 2: you were you happen to like do a little rehearsing.
1:06
Speaker 2: Is that what was going on?
1:06
Speaker 1: Yeah?
1:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're starting to rehearse actually, I mean our first
1:10
Speaker 3: rehearsal was was maybe almost a month ago where we
1:13
Speaker 3: were kind of like basically trying to relearn some songs
1:17
Speaker 3: that that we haven't played in a long time or
1:20
Speaker 3: even at all live. There's always, you know, you know,
1:24
Speaker 3: when you put out a record, there's always a few
1:26
Speaker 3: songs that you never get around to, like, you know,
1:29
Speaker 3: performing and especially you know, you know, we've got at
1:34
Speaker 3: this point, like eight albums, so it's kind of like
1:36
Speaker 3: you know, picking and choosing stuff. Although we mainly just
1:39
Speaker 3: stick to the last five records, we don't we don't
1:42
Speaker 3: do a ton of the old stuff that I that
1:45
Speaker 3: I didn't sing necessarily, but every now and then we will,
1:49
Speaker 3: and and during those times sometimes we'll have DJ come
1:52
Speaker 3: and sing them and stuff like that. But yeah, this
1:55
Speaker 3: was our second rehearsal and you know, it's coming together.
2:01
Speaker 2: Really, I love it. How does it feel to rehearse
2:04
Speaker 2: some songs that maybe haven't played for twenty plus years?
2:07
Speaker 2: Is it like riding a bike or that it just
2:08
Speaker 2: kind of comes back pretty naturally for you guys, or
2:11
Speaker 2: is it something where it's like, oh, this is something
2:13
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to really relearn here it takes somewhere.
2:18
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean if you haven't if you
2:23
Speaker 3: haven't played something in twenty years, it's I mean it
2:27
Speaker 3: it can come back to you, but it's not. There's
2:29
Speaker 3: no muscle memory there, you know. So a lot of
2:31
Speaker 3: these songs that we play, you know, pretty regularly or
2:34
Speaker 3: pretty often, it's like it's no big deal. But yeah,
2:38
Speaker 3: there's there's some difficult ones for sure.
2:43
Speaker 2: Well, you mentioned too, like there's some songs you know
2:46
Speaker 2: obviously that just kind of never get played. You know,
2:49
Speaker 2: you record them, they go on the album, and that's
2:51
Speaker 2: kind of the last you probably have a relationship with it,
2:54
Speaker 2: or at least for some time. And I'm curious, like
2:57
Speaker 2: I've thought about this for like other bands, I really
2:59
Speaker 2: like you bands that you know, especially bands that have
3:03
Speaker 2: put out a large input or out output of albums
3:06
Speaker 2: and songs, and certainly you just get to a point
3:09
Speaker 2: where some of these songs might be twenty years old
3:11
Speaker 2: and haven't been played for a very long time or
3:14
Speaker 2: if ever. And I've always been curious, like how artists
3:17
Speaker 2: relate to those songs, right Like, you know, your most
3:20
Speaker 2: popular sounds, for example, right like the songs that you're
3:22
Speaker 2: most well known for, right Like, those are the songs
3:24
Speaker 2: you're always gonna be playing live and you have like
3:27
Speaker 2: a continued relationship with those songs for a long time.
3:30
Speaker 2: But those songs that maybe just they only made the album,
3:33
Speaker 2: but then you just never play them ever. Again, I'm
3:34
Speaker 2: always curious, like do they kind of feel like the
3:36
Speaker 2: forgotten children? Or like what, like what's your really like?
3:39
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're proud of them, but is it kind
3:41
Speaker 2: of a thing where it's like, oh, yeah, I forgot
3:42
Speaker 2: that we did that. Like, I don't know, I'm just curious,
3:44
Speaker 2: like how you relate to some of those songs that
3:47
Speaker 2: either you haven't played in a long time or maybe
3:49
Speaker 2: have never played before.
3:54
Speaker 3: Rock.
3:54
Speaker 4: It's easy to it's easy to forget, like, well, what
4:00
Speaker 4: you've done, what you haven't done. I mean it's usually
4:03
Speaker 4: like we'll play the songs we think are the coolest
4:08
Speaker 4: and easiest to do it first, and then we just
4:11
Speaker 4: start playing those and it's easy to forget. Hey, we
4:15
Speaker 4: got like nine more songs you know on the record
4:19
Speaker 4: we could play. But once we get going, I mean,
4:22
Speaker 4: that train just keeps going because we don't have a
4:25
Speaker 4: lot of time, like to rehearse our stuff, so it's
4:30
Speaker 4: a lot of stuff does get put on the back burner.
4:33
Speaker 4: But after we do a record, it's usually like, what
4:36
Speaker 4: do we think is the coolest thing, and we'll do
4:39
Speaker 4: that and then we'll get to the other ones when
4:42
Speaker 4: we get to it, if we get to it.
4:45
Speaker 2: And that's a big gift sometimes.
4:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot of times there's there's always
4:48
Speaker 3: there's always songs that just kind of pop out and
4:50
Speaker 3: it's just kind of like the obvious ones, like you know,
4:52
Speaker 3: when you're when you're sequencing the record and you're like,
4:56
Speaker 3: you want to put the bangers up front, and you know,
4:59
Speaker 3: but keep a few towards the end as well. But relationally,
5:03
Speaker 3: I mean, I feel, I feel like I I like
5:06
Speaker 3: them all. I think they're all good, but there's definitely
5:09
Speaker 3: a certain amount of difficulty in some of them. And
5:13
Speaker 3: because we're not full time touring or or or or playing,
5:17
Speaker 3: you know, it's not it's it's not super easy to
5:20
Speaker 3: just pull it out or jump right in. You know,
5:23
Speaker 3: if we were, if we were constantly playing, you know,
5:26
Speaker 3: and touring, it'd be a lot easier for us to
5:30
Speaker 3: work work through those songs. And you know, I mean,
5:36
Speaker 3: but you know, we all have we have day jobs
5:38
Speaker 3: and and and and Rocky is the only one that
5:41
Speaker 3: actually plays for a living. So he's writing and recording
5:45
Speaker 3: soundtrack stuff.
5:46
Speaker 2: So dang, well, wait, what, like, Rocky, what are you
5:51
Speaker 2: doing just like music stuff? Like what what's your what
5:54
Speaker 2: do you do for that?
5:55
Speaker 4: I've worked full time for Require Interactive, the video game
5:59
Speaker 4: company out of the and so for the last three
6:02
Speaker 4: years I've been doing the music for Killing Floor three
6:06
Speaker 4: that just came out, and then I'll do some movies
6:09
Speaker 4: or something in between there when I have time. But
6:13
Speaker 4: but yeah, every day is the nine to five is
6:17
Speaker 4: playing metal.
6:19
Speaker 2: For I love that. So it's so even like because
6:22
Speaker 2: we've interviewed a number of artists where the like their
6:25
Speaker 2: day jobs is kind of like doing like commercial license
6:28
Speaker 2: kind of music. So I mean it sounds like that's
6:30
Speaker 2: what you're doing, but like you're doing specifically exclusively metal.
6:35
Speaker 4: This game is all metal.
6:37
Speaker 2: Wow, that's super.
6:39
Speaker 3: But you do you do movie soundtrack stuff too as well?
6:44
Speaker 4: Yeah, and yeah, a lot of retro like eighties rock
6:50
Speaker 4: and synth and stuff like that. I don't do a
6:53
Speaker 4: lot of that anymore. I'm doing the Barn three right now,
6:56
Speaker 4: and that's like some that retro stuff. But I do
7:00
Speaker 4: a lot of that. What but I don't do it
7:05
Speaker 4: so much anymore because that, you know, the nine to
7:08
Speaker 4: five job is music every day right through Friday.
7:12
Speaker 2: So well speak so kind of along those lines and
7:16
Speaker 2: like rocky like kind of what again. We talked to
7:18
Speaker 2: Bruce a couple of years ago about, you know, kind
7:20
Speaker 2: of how he got involved with like Living Sacrifice and
7:23
Speaker 2: obviously his own music journey. So yeah, like, what what
7:26
Speaker 2: got you involved in music and how did you get
7:28
Speaker 2: to Living Sacrifice in nineteen ninety eight.
7:31
Speaker 4: Well, I was been doing music one one way or another.
7:34
Speaker 4: I started getting instruments for Christmas and stuff like that
7:39
Speaker 4: when I was like ten. So from from ten on
7:42
Speaker 4: I've been I've been playing. And then when I met
7:45
Speaker 4: Living Sacrifice, however, long ago, that was many eons ago.
7:51
Speaker 3: Nineteen nineteen one, nineteen ninety we paid. Yeah, we played
7:58
Speaker 3: a show with his band, or or several shows, a
8:03
Speaker 3: couple of shows, because he was in a metal band
8:05
Speaker 3: called Chalice, and they were like, you know, they were
8:10
Speaker 3: a killer band, you know. And so I actually played
8:13
Speaker 3: with a couple of your bands. I don't know, I
8:15
Speaker 3: don't know. Did we ever play with six Shine when
8:17
Speaker 3: you were playing drums for them?
8:20
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so.
8:21
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So Rocky was like always like a you know,
8:25
Speaker 3: a part of the music scene, you know, in and
8:28
Speaker 3: around Little rock and everything, and him and Lance became
8:31
Speaker 3: friends because they were the two best metal drummers out
8:35
Speaker 3: there as far as I was concerned. I don't know,
8:40
Speaker 3: can't name of a better one.
8:44
Speaker 2: So it sounds like for you, Rocky, you just like,
8:46
Speaker 2: you know, you're playing shows, and you play some shows
8:49
Speaker 2: with Living Sacrifice with your own bands, and that's just
8:52
Speaker 2: kind of like how that relationship started for him.
8:55
Speaker 3: Yeah.
8:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean just being friends just like and then
9:00
Speaker 4: I needed a guitar player, and Lance said, hey, come
9:03
Speaker 4: over and jam with us and we'll see what happens.
9:07
Speaker 3: Now. Now Rocky was a drummer though, But Lamba's.
9:13
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, so how do you recruit a drummer? And
9:15
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, that guy's l.
9:16
Speaker 3: Like Rocky plays guitar, and I was just like, really, okay,
9:23
Speaker 3: awesome it worked out. Yeah, twenty seven years later.
9:28
Speaker 2: Do you have any do you have any fun stories
9:30
Speaker 2: about like that? Maybe it was that kind of first
9:32
Speaker 2: time you guys are jamming out, but was there any
9:34
Speaker 2: fun story where maybe you're coming in and Bruce is
9:37
Speaker 2: giving you that look kind of like it's like a
9:39
Speaker 2: real job interview, but it kind of isn't, Like, I
9:41
Speaker 2: don't like, do you have any kind of fun story
9:42
Speaker 2: around that kind of first time where you're trying to,
9:45
Speaker 2: you know, figure out whether or not this is gonna
9:47
Speaker 2: be a thing with Living Sacrifice.
9:49
Speaker 4: It it was actually really easy because I had known
9:52
Speaker 4: him for a long time already so it was kind
9:55
Speaker 4: of just, I don't know, weird because it was just us, dammon.
10:01
Speaker 4: It really didn't feel like an interview or anything like.
10:04
Speaker 4: It didn't matter just it worked out or not. It
10:06
Speaker 4: was just fun.
10:07
Speaker 2: It was right, just friends hanging out. That's that's great.
10:13
Speaker 2: So so that's that happened in ninety eight, and then
10:16
Speaker 2: a couple of years later, Hammering Process comes out. So
10:18
Speaker 2: that's the first album that you're on, Rocky, and so yeah,
10:22
Speaker 2: let's let's talk chat all about Hammering Process because obviously
10:25
Speaker 2: it's twenty five years which I would imagine for both
10:28
Speaker 2: of you, it's probably pretty hard to believe that was
10:29
Speaker 2: twenty five years ago.
10:31
Speaker 4: Yep.
10:31
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's one of those things where
10:32
Speaker 2: it just feels like it was just yesterday or not.
10:37
Speaker 3: It doesn't feel like yesterday, but it doesn't feel like
10:42
Speaker 3: twenty five years ago ago? What's that? What's that amazing? Well?
10:50
Speaker 2: Does it does it feel like it's twenty five years
10:51
Speaker 2: ago or does it feel does it even feel like
10:54
Speaker 2: longer than that?
10:55
Speaker 3: Just like a lifetime? Really? You know?
10:58
Speaker 2: Wow?
10:59
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've got a daughter that's twenty six,
11:04
Speaker 3: and Rocky's got kids just as old. So you know, yeah,
11:08
Speaker 3: I mean it was definitely a life It was definitely
11:11
Speaker 3: a lifetime ago. I mean, I think for us, it's
11:13
Speaker 3: just we're just astounded that we still get to play
11:17
Speaker 3: these songs and that people want to hear them. And
11:22
Speaker 3: that's that's what's cool for us because it gives us
11:26
Speaker 3: an excuse to get together and play and hang out together,
11:30
Speaker 3: because it's always fun when we do it. But it's
11:32
Speaker 3: also pretty hard work, you know, I mean, you get
11:36
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's it's a commitment after this long
11:39
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, right, but also a blessing, you know,
11:44
Speaker 3: and just being you know, fortunate to that that people
11:48
Speaker 3: still still like the songs.
11:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, what tell like talk about kind of just the
11:57
Speaker 2: time then, you know, twenty five years ago of what
12:00
Speaker 2: that was like, you know if I remember right, like
12:03
Speaker 2: I think Jimmy World was starting to like make music
12:06
Speaker 2: with pro tools, Like, were you guys at that point
12:08
Speaker 2: even using pro tools was? Like what was recording back
12:12
Speaker 2: in two thousand?
12:13
Speaker 3: What was that?
12:13
Speaker 4: Like the Hammering process was the first pro tools record.
12:18
Speaker 4: Because y'all did Reborn on aidats still, didn't you?
12:22
Speaker 3: Yep? Yep, correct, Yeah, we did Reborn with with Barry
12:26
Speaker 3: pointer and in Little Rock, and he was using digital
12:30
Speaker 3: tape and it's he was. He was also using a
12:35
Speaker 3: half inch or quarter inch analog to record the drums.
12:40
Speaker 3: I think he had like I think he was able
12:43
Speaker 3: to do eight tracks on on analog tape, and so
12:46
Speaker 3: he would sync his analog tape with his aid ads
12:50
Speaker 3: his digital tapes two and that's how we recorded Reborn.
12:54
Speaker 3: By the time hammering process came around two thousand, he
12:58
Speaker 3: had converted everything over to protein and we were actually
13:02
Speaker 3: the first album, the first recording Barry did on pro tools.
13:05
Speaker 3: So it was like this weird learning process with all
13:08
Speaker 3: of us. If you remember Rocky, it was you know,
13:11
Speaker 3: it was it was just a trip. I'm sure you
13:14
Speaker 3: were just like sitting there looking at what we're everything's
13:17
Speaker 3: in a computer. I know I was. I was just
13:19
Speaker 3: like and we kept saying, rewind the tape, Yeah, can
13:26
Speaker 3: you rewind?
13:29
Speaker 2: That had been really early on because like didn't pro tools, Like,
13:32
Speaker 2: was it maybe like ninety eight or ninety nine when
13:35
Speaker 2: like that started to become like I don't know, but
13:38
Speaker 2: I mean it was pretty I don't know the timeline,
13:40
Speaker 2: but that two thousand feels pretty early.
13:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would think so.
13:46
Speaker 2: That's impressive. What was it something when you were I mean,
13:49
Speaker 2: obviously there's probably the just the almost feeling like you're
13:52
Speaker 2: having to speak a new language, where there's probably that
13:54
Speaker 2: awkwardness to it. But did it when when you're like
13:56
Speaker 2: listening to it, when you're you know, you're recording, and
13:58
Speaker 2: then you're listening back to some of these recordings, did
14:01
Speaker 2: it sound better? Like I'm just curious, like, was it
14:04
Speaker 2: something where you're like, oh, yeah, I can see why
14:05
Speaker 2: we're we're moving over to this pro tools thing.
14:09
Speaker 4: For me, I didn't. I didn't notice that. And even
14:12
Speaker 4: recording it was still very normal, like the way I
14:20
Speaker 4: was always used to doing it. It was just it
14:23
Speaker 4: seemed a lot faster, like if you needed to edit
14:26
Speaker 4: something real quick that it was a lot faster than yeah,
14:29
Speaker 4: having to break out the erasers on the the two
14:33
Speaker 4: inch tape or something real doing the find where it
14:40
Speaker 4: was gonna be. But yeah, it was just way faster
14:43
Speaker 4: and it was much more efficient and awesome to work
14:47
Speaker 4: with anyway. So he, you know, his his newness to
14:53
Speaker 4: it was also like kind of cool because we're all
14:57
Speaker 4: just like, I don't know if we were the band
15:00
Speaker 4: that he recorded.
15:01
Speaker 3: We were, Yeah, I mean, I didn't think. Yeah, I
15:06
Speaker 3: distinctly remember that, Like I mean, I'm sure I know
15:09
Speaker 3: he had it up and running and he was like
15:11
Speaker 3: working on it and messing around with it. But I
15:14
Speaker 3: think we were the first like actual recording he did.
15:18
Speaker 3: At least that's the way I remember I remember it.
15:21
Speaker 3: But yeah, I agree, like I I didn't notice a
15:24
Speaker 3: difference in the sound at all. It was just the
15:27
Speaker 3: efficiency of edits and you know, not using a physical
15:33
Speaker 3: you know, tape that you had to pull out, mark, cut,
15:37
Speaker 3: put back, splice it back together. Things like that, or
15:41
Speaker 3: the track limitations.
15:42
Speaker 4: Either you could five harmonies to something and even if
15:48
Speaker 4: we didn't use them, we could do them and see
15:50
Speaker 4: if we liked them, or you know what it was. However,
15:53
Speaker 4: many overdobes, it was just go for it.
15:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, with the analog tape, you're you're limited to you
15:59
Speaker 3: know how many tracks that the the the particular two
16:04
Speaker 3: inch tape holds, which I think you know and in
16:07
Speaker 3: most cases is twenty twenty four. And then if you
16:10
Speaker 3: went up to you know, forty eight, if you doubled it,
16:12
Speaker 3: then you had two completely different tape machines synced up
16:15
Speaker 3: running together. We never did that because we didn't have
16:18
Speaker 3: the budget. But like even even the two inch analog tape,
16:21
Speaker 3: and you see those tapes, they're just massive, and they're
16:23
Speaker 3: these massive reels. I still have them. I have all
16:26
Speaker 3: the old ones from our first three records and our
16:30
Speaker 3: first two records rather, and you know, they're just you know,
16:35
Speaker 3: they're just big old reels of tape and they're they
16:39
Speaker 3: were expensive. So like when we would when we would
16:43
Speaker 3: record something with the label, they would buy as much
16:46
Speaker 3: tape as they thought they needed for an album, but
16:49
Speaker 3: no more. So it's like you didn't have you didn't
16:53
Speaker 3: have tape to burn because we didn't have big budgets.
16:55
Speaker 3: Now granted, all the big major labels bands probably had
17:00
Speaker 3: know ten ten reels of tape. We had two, you
17:04
Speaker 3: know or whatever. If they needed more, they would splice
17:06
Speaker 3: it together. You know. It's it's there's you know, infamous
17:11
Speaker 3: story about how many edits went into recording and Justice
17:14
Speaker 3: for All just just the drums on two inch tape.
17:20
Speaker 2: So yeah, it sounds like it was just like the
17:22
Speaker 2: efficiency process that just makes this so much better, which
17:24
Speaker 2: I'm probably, like I would imagine like makes it feel
17:27
Speaker 2: then at least from like the label of perspective, like
17:28
Speaker 2: they're getting more bang for their buck because now you
17:30
Speaker 2: don't have to Now you don't have to deal with
17:33
Speaker 2: these You're you're not limited physically by how much tape
17:36
Speaker 2: you've got, Like now you can really spend some like
17:40
Speaker 2: actual time really trying to figure out like what's the
17:42
Speaker 2: sound we what's the sound, what's the like, what's the writing,
17:45
Speaker 2: what's the song structure we really ultimately want?
17:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean the other thing I remember is like
17:50
Speaker 3: the the drums had to be one one full take
17:53
Speaker 3: on on on tape, Like there was no way to
17:57
Speaker 3: really punch the drums in to edit or to like say,
18:02
Speaker 3: unless unless there became a quiet part where the drums
18:04
Speaker 3: kind of faded out, then you could punch in and
18:07
Speaker 3: start the song back up. But if it was just
18:08
Speaker 3: a consistent song, you know, heavy all the way through
18:11
Speaker 3: and the drums are just going the whole time if
18:15
Speaker 3: you punch, if you if you were to stop and
18:17
Speaker 3: then punch back in, it would just like you're not
18:20
Speaker 3: hitting the symbol the same way, so it's going to
18:22
Speaker 3: sound like a cut. And with pro tools you were
18:26
Speaker 3: you were actually able to do that. So you know,
18:29
Speaker 3: that was the first time where we didn't have to,
18:35
Speaker 3: you know, do a take of the song where the
18:38
Speaker 3: drums are just not not stopped. If there was something
18:42
Speaker 3: that lanced in like in one part, he'd be like, oh,
18:45
Speaker 3: I want to fix that one part or whatever. We
18:47
Speaker 3: just we just cut in right there, you know, and
18:50
Speaker 3: with the editing editing capabilities, you were able to blend
18:53
Speaker 3: it to where it sounded natural.
18:57
Speaker 2: That's just so so different now, which and now it's
19:00
Speaker 2: like it's just so cool to see, you know, there
19:03
Speaker 2: are a lot of albums now, like good albums that
19:06
Speaker 2: are essentially made in a person's bedroom, Like you can
19:09
Speaker 2: just do it from your office at home for the
19:11
Speaker 2: most part, and even if you and then if you
19:14
Speaker 2: want like actual real drums, like you can pretty much
19:17
Speaker 2: do everything vocals, guitars, whatever from somebody, you know, you
19:21
Speaker 2: can do that from your bedroom. And then even if
19:23
Speaker 2: you want real drums, then you can just you know,
19:25
Speaker 2: record that elsewhere and then you throw that all together.
19:27
Speaker 2: But it's just like cool to like here, like the
19:30
Speaker 2: way you guys are talking about this, like where we're
19:33
Speaker 2: at now twenty five years later, Like that was the precursor,
19:36
Speaker 2: like the pro tools. What's like the first time that
19:38
Speaker 2: that was even going to become a possibility that here
19:41
Speaker 2: we now have entire albums that are being made out
19:44
Speaker 2: of bedrooms.
19:46
Speaker 3: Pretty crazy.
19:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, it's just it's amazing how that technology just
19:52
Speaker 2: like changes everything. So when you guys look back now
19:55
Speaker 2: at this album, like, yeah, like, how do you think
19:58
Speaker 2: about it in terms of the career you you know,
20:00
Speaker 2: obviously there's kind of the change in terms of obviously
20:02
Speaker 2: you becoming the lead vocalist for us, and so maybe
20:05
Speaker 2: maybe that kind of maybe you think of like living
20:08
Speaker 2: sacrifice in like certain parts. Right, So there's the albums
20:12
Speaker 2: that you know you aren't the lead vocalist, and then
20:14
Speaker 2: and then then you obviously do become and then you've
20:18
Speaker 2: got obviously kind of the solid State those at least
20:20
Speaker 2: like kind of you know, late nineties early two thousand
20:22
Speaker 2: solid State records, and then there's the Hiatus and then
20:25
Speaker 2: those last two albums. But yeah, I'm just kind of curious,
20:28
Speaker 2: like in terms of the way that you think back
20:30
Speaker 2: to Hammering Process kind of being you know, the middle
20:33
Speaker 2: album of all of the discography, How does it how
20:36
Speaker 2: do you think back to it. Does it feel like
20:38
Speaker 2: this is the most popular album? Does it feel like
20:40
Speaker 2: this is the album we're most proud of. Like, I'm
20:42
Speaker 2: just curious, like, when you guys look back at this album,
20:44
Speaker 2: what does it mean to you?
20:48
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I Rocky's obviously got a different, completely
20:52
Speaker 3: different perspective since it was the first, first one he
20:55
Speaker 3: was a part of. But yeah, I mean we were
20:58
Speaker 3: we were very motivated in and and excited to be
21:02
Speaker 3: able to do it, and and it was it was
21:04
Speaker 3: a weird time because we felt like Reborn was just
21:08
Speaker 3: such a strong album and and then the both Chris
21:13
Speaker 3: and Jason decided that they didn't want to want to
21:16
Speaker 3: tour or be you know, part of a full time
21:19
Speaker 3: band anymore. It was, uh, you know, we were we
21:24
Speaker 3: were kind of like, just like, how are we going
21:27
Speaker 3: to replace these guys? They're not really replaceable, you know,
21:31
Speaker 3: And so that was the struggle, and it was and
21:34
Speaker 3: honestly it was even the label was just kind of like, yeah,
21:37
Speaker 3: you know, send us demos. You know, they're like, you know,
21:41
Speaker 3: I think everybody was like a real hype on Reborn,
21:44
Speaker 3: and it was just like, oh, never mind, just kidding,
21:49
Speaker 3: and uh and then uh, I'll never forget this. We
21:52
Speaker 3: played we were actually I don't think we were recording
21:56
Speaker 3: the record yet, but we maybe we were, but we
21:59
Speaker 3: played Cornerstone ninety nine maybe or no, it was two thousand.
22:07
Speaker 3: They had asked us to play the main stage. So
22:09
Speaker 3: Rocky had been playing with us for a while and
22:11
Speaker 3: doing shows and stuff like that and everything, and then
22:15
Speaker 3: Arthur had come on board not long after that. But
22:21
Speaker 3: this was definitely the biggest stage we'd ever played, and
22:23
Speaker 3: so it was kind of a big deal. You know,
22:25
Speaker 3: it felt like a big deal for us because it
22:27
Speaker 3: was like twenty thousand people, you know, in what would
22:30
Speaker 3: typically be like a massive amphitheater or arena or something
22:34
Speaker 3: like that. And so it was like, I remember it
22:37
Speaker 3: was one of the first shows that we played where
22:39
Speaker 3: like I felt nervous again, you know, And but I
22:43
Speaker 3: remember I remember after that show, everybody from the label,
22:47
Speaker 3: including Brandon, was like that was awesome. You guys, you know,
22:54
Speaker 3: crushed it. And it was kind of like we kind
22:57
Speaker 3: of put all the doubts, you know, to rest.
23:00
Speaker 2: You know.
23:01
Speaker 3: It was kind of like because you know, I mean,
23:05
Speaker 3: bands are are a a you know, like a chemistry
23:11
Speaker 3: of different players and people and how they play together
23:14
Speaker 3: and how they interact and you know, and and and
23:18
Speaker 3: even even perform on stage. And stuff like that, and
23:20
Speaker 3: there has to be a chemistry, you know, and you
23:23
Speaker 3: know when people leave that, you know, aspects of that
23:27
Speaker 3: gets lost. So anyways, that was my perspective of was
23:32
Speaker 3: like it was kind of like, oh, we we have
23:35
Speaker 3: to kind of like re kind of rebuild this thing.
23:38
Speaker 3: But from the get go, me and Lance were writing songs.
23:41
Speaker 3: You know, I think we had two or three already
23:44
Speaker 3: written before Rocky join and then and then and then
23:48
Speaker 3: Arthur and then and then we you know, we all
23:52
Speaker 3: we all collectively kind of you know like participated in
23:54
Speaker 3: writing you know, the rest of the album, and Rocky himself,
24:01
Speaker 3: like you know, I mean just came up with super
24:06
Speaker 3: melodic parts that were like, you know, very different than
24:11
Speaker 3: anything we'd done before. And and also from a guy
24:15
Speaker 3: that had just you know, really devoted kind of devoted
24:17
Speaker 3: himself to playing guitar like two years prior. It was
24:20
Speaker 3: like it was, it was, it was pretty awesome. I
24:24
Speaker 3: felt I felt super good about the record when we
24:28
Speaker 3: were doing it, and even now if I go back
24:30
Speaker 3: and listen to it, like like I you know, I
24:33
Speaker 3: mean I have a little you know, some some production
24:37
Speaker 3: you know, things that I would rather be better and
24:43
Speaker 3: stuff like that, but you know, I mean, I'm super
24:46
Speaker 3: super proud of it, you know, and and I do
24:51
Speaker 3: think it's I mean, I think it's one of our
24:53
Speaker 3: best albums, and it tends to be one of the
24:57
Speaker 3: albums where, you know, over the last twenty years, you know,
25:03
Speaker 3: the majority that you know, if you come to you
25:05
Speaker 3: see a live set, you know, it's like it's going
25:07
Speaker 3: to be like heavy on Hammering Process songs like usually
25:13
Speaker 3: three or four at the at a minimum, you know,
25:16
Speaker 3: as opposed to any other album where it's going to
25:19
Speaker 3: be like one or two or three or whatever. Yeah.
25:24
Speaker 2: The sense I've gotten about the album as somebody who
25:29
Speaker 2: you know has seen the you know, or I've talked
25:31
Speaker 2: to a lot of people who are huge Living Sacrifices,
25:33
Speaker 2: Living Sacrifice fans in particular, and the sense I've gotten
25:37
Speaker 2: is that Hammering Process probably is the favorite album. Like
25:41
Speaker 2: maybe Reborn is kind of the one they'll hear maybe
25:44
Speaker 2: next to that, but it certainly seems to be the
25:46
Speaker 2: Hammering Process is the one I hear the most, those
25:50
Speaker 2: two for sure.
25:51
Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yeah, yeah, I mean that's where we gained
25:54
Speaker 3: like a much a much larger fan base starting with Reborn,
25:59
Speaker 3: but then also continuing with hammering process, and a lot
26:02
Speaker 3: of that also is due to the fact that we
26:04
Speaker 3: toured more than we you know, had ever done prior
26:09
Speaker 3: or any other time in our career. I mean we
26:11
Speaker 3: we were doing you know, one hundred and twenty dates
26:15
Speaker 3: a year, you know, you know, and so playing that much,
26:20
Speaker 3: you know, almost sort of sort of pre Internet. Definitely
26:26
Speaker 3: pre video on Internet, you know, where people could like
26:28
Speaker 3: post videos and stuff like that. That's that's how you
26:31
Speaker 3: got out there, and that's how that's how people saw us,
26:34
Speaker 3: you know.
26:34
Speaker 2: So you know, yeah, rocky for you, Like, how do
26:41
Speaker 2: you look back at this album? What does it mean
26:44
Speaker 2: for you personally, especially knowing this was your first album
26:47
Speaker 2: with Living Sacrifice.
26:49
Speaker 4: Oh, it's awesome. It's always nice looking.
26:52
Speaker 2: Back and does it kind of feel like you're firstborn?
26:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, in a lot of ways it is. Yeah, I'd
26:59
Speaker 4: never like seriously like tried to play lead guitar or
27:03
Speaker 4: anything like that. And so I look back at that
27:06
Speaker 4: and I'm like, where did I Where did I get
27:10
Speaker 4: some of this stuff from? Because I I it has
27:15
Speaker 4: to be from like playing live with these guys like
27:18
Speaker 4: before before the hammering process and having to learn what
27:22
Speaker 4: Jason was doing and stuff like that that that had
27:25
Speaker 4: to help me and inspire me to go to certain
27:28
Speaker 4: places and and because I hadn't had to do that before,
27:32
Speaker 4: so it probably just knowing that I could do it
27:36
Speaker 4: really like gave me the like the the energy to
27:41
Speaker 4: like just go for it, you know, that kind of thing.
27:44
Speaker 4: And that's the first thing, you know, And it's actually
27:48
Speaker 4: a record that that people really like that, So I mean,
27:54
Speaker 4: what I'm doing right now I couldn't have done if
27:56
Speaker 4: I hadn't done.
27:57
Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah, Like it gave view that like confidence
28:01
Speaker 2: probably even that you could like do other obviously not
28:05
Speaker 2: just Living Sacrifice music, but other music as well.
28:07
Speaker 3: Yep.
28:07
Speaker 2: Absolutely, It's just so interesting to me that you go
28:11
Speaker 2: from being a drummer pretty much your whole music career
28:14
Speaker 2: and again, like obviously it sounds like you knew how
28:16
Speaker 2: to play guitar to some degree, but it's interesting that
28:19
Speaker 2: you go from being a drummer to now you're entering
28:22
Speaker 2: into Living Sacrifice as a guitar player. And like you mentioned,
28:25
Speaker 2: like there's I'm sure Living Sacrifice music that you had
28:28
Speaker 2: listened to that probably helped you kind of get a
28:30
Speaker 2: sense on like what kind of parts do I want
28:32
Speaker 2: to write and how do I want to play in
28:34
Speaker 2: this band? But I'm curious, like, were there other artists
28:37
Speaker 2: at that time that you were listening to that you
28:40
Speaker 2: kind of had an ear for. That was what was
28:42
Speaker 2: maybe helping you kind of get a sense on like
28:45
Speaker 2: how what can I bring to the writing of Hammering process.
28:49
Speaker 4: Well, the first thing was just being such a big
28:52
Speaker 4: fan of living sacrifice. I'd like to sacrifice for so long.
28:56
Speaker 4: It's like, I know what living sacrifice sounds like, So
28:59
Speaker 4: that's not you know, it was easy to go there
29:02
Speaker 4: because it's like, this is a living sacrifice riff. You know,
29:06
Speaker 4: this is definitely inspired by that. But Second Death or whatever, right,
29:11
Speaker 4: But like several tour, the Shoga Slayer stuff like that,
29:17
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff was kind of in the
29:20
Speaker 4: mix and kind of always in the background. So I
29:24
Speaker 4: think everybody was still listening to the Shoga at that time.
29:26
Speaker 4: Why don't we bruise?
29:28
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah. The funny thing about
29:32
Speaker 3: My Sugar is like we had done Reborn. Reborn was
29:34
Speaker 3: like out and we went on tour in the guy.
29:40
Speaker 3: I'll never forget it was I think it was Oklahoma
29:42
Speaker 3: City or Oklahoma and Tulsa or Oklahoma City. It was
29:46
Speaker 3: like one of the first shows of a tour, well
29:50
Speaker 3: first shows of one of one of these tours, and
29:52
Speaker 3: it was kind of we were an in between situation
29:54
Speaker 3: where Corey Putman, Corey Brandon was playing guitar with us
30:01
Speaker 3: and you know, filling in because we hadn't filled that
30:03
Speaker 3: spot yet. And so the sky brought this cassette tape
30:08
Speaker 3: and it had Destroyer Race Improve on one side and
30:12
Speaker 3: had none on the other side of the cassette tape
30:17
Speaker 3: and oh no, no, no, that's farther back because that
30:21
Speaker 3: was with Jason was still in the vand so it
30:24
Speaker 3: was yeah, it was still it was still Jason and Chris. Anyways,
30:27
Speaker 3: we heard we heard my Sugar for the first time
30:29
Speaker 3: after we did Reborn, and we just like we're blown away.
30:33
Speaker 3: We just couldn't believe it. It was just like what
30:35
Speaker 3: are they doing?
30:36
Speaker 4: And so.
30:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it, it definitely it definitely on us personally,
30:43
Speaker 3: like me and Lance, you know, we you know, we
30:46
Speaker 3: we took little bits and pieces from that, and then
30:48
Speaker 3: you know, you know, when when when Rocky came on board,
30:52
Speaker 3: we were all we all kind of had a vibe
30:55
Speaker 3: for it because also we we we had started kind
30:58
Speaker 3: of started something with because Reborn is completely different than
31:01
Speaker 3: the first three records. Although there there is a very
31:05
Speaker 3: thrash element to it, still it's not as it's definitely
31:09
Speaker 3: not as like extreme just full on death metal. And
31:15
Speaker 3: then we were older too, so we were like, you know,
31:16
Speaker 3: in our mid twenties, and we were like, you know,
31:20
Speaker 3: you know, where where do we go from here? You know,
31:21
Speaker 3: how do we how do we expand you know or
31:24
Speaker 3: build upon this? And we just weren't very prep We
31:27
Speaker 3: weren't precious about like who we were stylistically. We were like,
31:33
Speaker 3: you know, within the within the genre of metal, like
31:37
Speaker 3: where can we take this and how can we you know,
31:40
Speaker 3: be more effective as a band. And in our minds
31:45
Speaker 3: at that time, it was actually to simplify the music
31:48
Speaker 3: to a certain degree, not not not in a songwrite
31:51
Speaker 3: writing way. I feel like our songs actually our songwriting
31:54
Speaker 3: actually got way better during that time, especially the hammering process,
32:00
Speaker 3: because we we tapped into like more actual song structure
32:05
Speaker 3: and and and we had we had you know, parts
32:10
Speaker 3: and riffs that that actually gave space. It wasn't just
32:13
Speaker 3: like you know, got the whole time, uh, you know,
32:18
Speaker 3: or double picking the whole time or anything like that.
32:21
Speaker 3: It was just kind of like, oh, let's open this
32:22
Speaker 3: part up. It's only going to be bass, guitar and
32:24
Speaker 3: feedback or whatever. And uh, I loved that about it.
32:28
Speaker 3: I felt like it gave our music more dynamic presence
32:32
Speaker 3: and and actually like really kind of like challenged me
32:36
Speaker 3: to try to sing differently, which I did do and
32:40
Speaker 3: you know, to varying degrees of success or failure depending
32:46
Speaker 3: on who you ask. Like, there's like the other that
32:50
Speaker 3: that was the first album where we incorporated like you know,
32:54
Speaker 3: like cleaner vocals and singing and stuff like that.
32:57
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, there's definitely elements of sort of like an
33:02
Speaker 2: almost new metal like elements to hammering process, especially in
33:07
Speaker 2: comparison to like some of those previous albums. And like, honestly,
33:10
Speaker 2: even the like the album artwork feels a little bit
33:14
Speaker 2: like of the time of new metal, Like there's kind
33:17
Speaker 2: of this I don't know, it kind of feels technological,
33:20
Speaker 2: kind of it feels digital that the album artwork, and
33:23
Speaker 2: again in comparison to some of the like very metal
33:26
Speaker 2: looking previous albums. So I don't know, there was something
33:29
Speaker 2: like stylistically that felt like there was a little bit
33:31
Speaker 2: of a shift with with hammering process in comparison to
33:35
Speaker 2: the previous albums.
33:38
Speaker 3: Possibly, I mean, I've got a different opinion of that,
33:40
Speaker 3: but oh I'm curious.
33:42
Speaker 2: I'm curious. Like I that that's been my impression of
33:45
Speaker 2: the album.
33:46
Speaker 3: A lot of people share that impression for sure, but
33:49
Speaker 3: like I, well, I think I don't know that any
33:51
Speaker 3: of us knew what new metal was back then. Well, no,
33:53
Speaker 3: it was pretty much a thing because it was all
33:55
Speaker 3: through the nineties. Yeah, I mean that that definitely, that
33:58
Speaker 3: definitely wasn't that wasn't necessarily a goal, but like definitely
34:03
Speaker 3: something you know, creating something that had more accessibility and
34:08
Speaker 3: had you know, just song structure, you know, as far
34:14
Speaker 3: as far as far as that goes. But man, I
34:18
Speaker 3: I don't think I listened to any of those bands.
34:21
Speaker 3: I would say, like a lot of my stuff, my
34:23
Speaker 3: ideas came more from like post hardcore bands and things
34:28
Speaker 3: like that.
34:29
Speaker 2: Mmm mmmm yeah. Like I definitely, like, I definitely don't
34:33
Speaker 2: think it's like a new metal album by any means,
34:35
Speaker 2: but it sounds like it kind of was a thing
34:37
Speaker 2: where if there is any new metal kind of element to.
34:40
Speaker 3: It, oh yeah, no, people brought that. Lots of people
34:43
Speaker 3: brought that up, like it's you're not wrong, and and
34:47
Speaker 3: you know it's fine. I mean, you know, it is
34:51
Speaker 3: what it is now. I think at the time I
34:53
Speaker 3: was like, what do you mean, we're not new metal?
34:56
Speaker 4: Right?
34:57
Speaker 2: It might have been a thing where, like any any
34:59
Speaker 2: sort of metal that had any level of dynamics to
35:01
Speaker 2: it probably was seen as like new metal or alternative
35:03
Speaker 2: metal at the time, just because I know there was
35:05
Speaker 2: and like you said, like there was maybe more dynamic
35:08
Speaker 2: going on.
35:08
Speaker 3: I think it had to do with some of the
35:09
Speaker 3: simplicity of the riffs.
35:12
Speaker 4: Mmmm, it's groovy, that's the thing.
35:15
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, that's true. And new metal was very groovy, yes,
35:18
Speaker 2: especially at that time.
35:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, all fair so.
35:26
Speaker 2: And and again like I think maybe like what also,
35:28
Speaker 2: at least for me Drives at Home is the album
35:31
Speaker 2: artwork again just kind of feels like a new metal
35:33
Speaker 2: kind of album artwork. Again, Like obviously I know that's
35:35
Speaker 2: not what you guys were trying to do, but it
35:37
Speaker 2: just kind of has that digital sort of new metal,
35:40
Speaker 2: turn of the century kind of I don't know what.
35:42
Speaker 4: We're trying to We just let him go with it.
35:44
Speaker 4: It's like, oh, that's cool, okay.
35:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, we weren't really I don't know, we weren't smart
35:49
Speaker 3: enough to like write a you know, a radio record.
35:55
Speaker 3: But like also, you know, like metalcore was all of
35:59
Speaker 3: a sudden like like it was kind of becoming a thing.
36:02
Speaker 3: I don't even know if they had that term yet,
36:04
Speaker 3: but like, you know, even going back to Reborn, you know,
36:09
Speaker 3: there was no such thing as metalcore. But like all then,
36:13
Speaker 3: you know, in the early two thousands, you know, lots
36:15
Speaker 3: of bands came up, and part of that was you know,
36:19
Speaker 3: screaming and clean clean you know, clean vocals and stuff
36:22
Speaker 3: like that. There was a ton there was a ton
36:25
Speaker 3: of our fans that were really pissed off that we
36:28
Speaker 3: had clean vocals. There was a website called There's there
36:32
Speaker 3: was a website I did. I did an interview for
36:34
Speaker 3: oh actually around around the time of Infinite Order called
36:38
Speaker 3: no Clean Singing dot com or something. Do you remember
36:41
Speaker 3: that Rocky Yeah, like uh and he was just like, uh,
36:46
Speaker 3: he was like, I'm really glad you guys don't have
36:48
Speaker 3: any clean singing on the new record. That was they've
36:52
Speaker 3: been at order, not not hammering process. But yeah, there
36:55
Speaker 3: were some people that were just like, oh yeah, you
36:57
Speaker 3: guys really wimped out and whatever.
37:00
Speaker 2: But we were just man, we were just did they
37:02
Speaker 2: did they see you as like sellouts?
37:04
Speaker 3: Probably, but we were just trying different stuff. It's like, man,
37:08
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you know, five albums, five albums in,
37:12
Speaker 3: it's kind of like, well, you know, just stay the
37:17
Speaker 3: same or or evolved, right.
37:21
Speaker 2: Was that was that Matt Putman that was like mostly
37:23
Speaker 2: doing the clean singing or was it like a combination
37:26
Speaker 2: of you and him or who was kind of primarily
37:29
Speaker 2: doing the clean singing?
37:30
Speaker 3: It was it was all of us. Rocky did some singing,
37:34
Speaker 3: oh wow, uh, Arthur myself, Matt Lance no singing, but
37:46
Speaker 3: all of all, I mean all of us, all of
37:48
Speaker 3: us tried different you know, aspects of it and harmonies.
37:52
Speaker 3: Like we were just talking about it this weekend when
37:53
Speaker 3: we were together talking about one of the songs that
37:55
Speaker 3: we were working on, you know, for for the for
37:59
Speaker 3: the show, and Andy Rocky reminded me. He was like,
38:04
Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, that's me. I did like five harmonies.
38:06
Speaker 3: Like I'll listen to it and I'll be honest, like
38:09
Speaker 3: I don't know who it is. Sometimes I'm like, cause
38:12
Speaker 3: it's all like they'll you know, Barrier at the time
38:15
Speaker 3: was he would say, okay, harmonize this way, and he'd
38:18
Speaker 3: stack him so that it sounds like you know big
38:21
Speaker 3: and you know full it right, and so it kind
38:26
Speaker 3: of gets lost. But also sometimes there was a blend
38:29
Speaker 3: of voices sometimes you know, me and Matt or me
38:31
Speaker 3: and Rocky, and so it's kind of hard to tell,
38:35
Speaker 3: to be honest. And the other thing we figured out
38:38
Speaker 3: this weekend is that none of us were really very
38:40
Speaker 3: good at it, but but we did it. We did
38:44
Speaker 3: it anyway.
38:48
Speaker 2: So what does that mean for a live show? You know,
38:51
Speaker 2: we'll talk about Fronce Fessia in the second, but what
38:52
Speaker 2: does that mean for a live show? Like how do
38:54
Speaker 2: you divide that labor of clean singing? If it sort
38:56
Speaker 2: of was one of those things like we don't actually
38:58
Speaker 2: know who was singing this part, we don't do it.
39:03
Speaker 2: You just make the crowd do it. That that's that's
39:05
Speaker 2: actually probably the best thing to maybe do.
39:08
Speaker 3: We're all we're all just kind of we're basically trying
39:10
Speaker 3: to figure out the best, the best you know, solution
39:16
Speaker 3: because you know, because we don't remember, it doesn't really
39:22
Speaker 3: matter and it's not like it's kind of like we're
39:24
Speaker 3: relearning it anyways. So it's like whether I sing it
39:28
Speaker 3: originally and I want Arthur to do it now doesn't matter.
39:32
Speaker 3: It's like, as long as he can do it and
39:34
Speaker 3: play it and sing it, I'm gonna try to get
39:37
Speaker 3: him to do it. But if I have to do it,
39:42
Speaker 3: then it's just like it's like there's all these other
39:44
Speaker 3: things I have to do, but like one one of
39:47
Speaker 3: the things that's that that is killer. Speaking of furnish Us,
39:51
Speaker 3: one of the things I love about it is that,
39:54
Speaker 3: you know, we get to play with, you know, other
39:56
Speaker 3: bands that are our friends that we've known for years
39:59
Speaker 3: and years and years, I mean going back twenty thirty years.
40:03
Speaker 3: And so with each with each appearance that we've done,
40:08
Speaker 3: you know, we will bring somebody up to do something
40:11
Speaker 3: or play with us. Like Joe sang some stuff on
40:16
Speaker 3: the first Furnace Fest, uh, you know, one of one
40:19
Speaker 3: of our old old songs, and and then a few
40:24
Speaker 3: years ago we had the guys from Demon Hunter come
40:26
Speaker 3: up and we covered a Pantera song. You know. I mean,
40:29
Speaker 3: that's that's really like one of the the awesome things
40:32
Speaker 3: about Furnace vest is is you know, seeing something that's
40:38
Speaker 3: that can only happen there because everybody's there in the
40:41
Speaker 3: same spot, and you know, and it'll it'll it'll only
40:47
Speaker 3: happen one time, it will never happen again. And so
40:50
Speaker 3: we're we're working on on on something like that for
40:53
Speaker 3: this year as well in some of these songs. And uh,
40:56
Speaker 3: and thankfully I won't have to sing that song if
40:59
Speaker 3: it works out.
41:02
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's that's the benefit of it. Take a little
41:04
Speaker 2: breathe there. Yeah, what you're talking about though, with furnace
41:08
Speaker 2: Fest is what what Colin and I have talked about
41:12
Speaker 2: a lot when whenever we talk to other bands about
41:14
Speaker 2: furnace Fest or when we like kind of do a
41:16
Speaker 2: reflection episode on furness Fest. But it truly does feel
41:19
Speaker 2: like a family reunion. And even though like I might
41:22
Speaker 2: not know everyone there, you can tell that other especially
41:25
Speaker 2: for the bands, especially some of these old legacy bands,
41:27
Speaker 2: Like you can tell that like, oh my god, like
41:29
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that person forever, and like it's just
41:32
Speaker 2: it kind of it feels like that family reunion kind
41:35
Speaker 2: of vibe. And maybe that's your maybe that's kind of
41:37
Speaker 2: the impression or maybe it's not the impression that you've
41:39
Speaker 2: gotten a furnace Fest, but that certainly is what I've
41:42
Speaker 2: experienced at Furness Fast and I can you know, speak
41:44
Speaker 2: for Colin on.
41:45
Speaker 3: That absolutely, Yeah, I agree, one hundred percent.
41:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a cool vibe. So yeah, we're
41:52
Speaker 2: super looking forward to seeing you guys play furnest Fest
41:54
Speaker 2: because you guys played, yeah, a couple a few years ago,
41:57
Speaker 2: you guys played the Shed. I'm guessing you guys will
41:59
Speaker 2: probably play the shit again this year, right I believe?
42:02
Speaker 3: So?
42:02
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you you you are a shed band, Like
42:06
Speaker 2: I'll be on it, Like, as long as Furnace Festo
42:08
Speaker 2: goes on and as long as Living Sacrifice plays at Forncept,
42:10
Speaker 2: You're probably gonna be in the Shed. It's just you
42:12
Speaker 2: just are kind of naturally a shed band.
42:15
Speaker 3: I'm down with that. I'd like the Shed. That's great?
42:19
Speaker 3: Is it? Is?
42:20
Speaker 2: It like maybe the coolest venue you guys have ever played.
42:24
Speaker 3: It's one of them, Yeah, the Shed specifically.
42:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's just it's a cool it's a
42:28
Speaker 2: cool environment to be in.
42:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it. It's it's it's it's got a
42:32
Speaker 3: great vibe. It is it is a little it can't
42:35
Speaker 3: be a little echoly, oh very much. So, yes, yeah
42:39
Speaker 3: that's that's the I remember.
42:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember a few years ago seeing Zao there
42:46
Speaker 2: and and Dan. I mean just the echo that Dan's
42:49
Speaker 2: voice had in that building made it sound like he
42:51
Speaker 2: was a demon, like he's just it is nuts how
42:55
Speaker 2: loud that, especially the way Zao was able to get that.
42:58
Speaker 2: I don't know if they just were naturally louder than everyone,
43:00
Speaker 2: but it just it was so loud in there when
43:03
Speaker 2: they've played, and yeah, it's just but it is that
43:05
Speaker 2: kind of venue. It's just it's very EQUI but the
43:08
Speaker 2: vibe of it is just so cool where it almost
43:10
Speaker 2: kind of that that's what you remember out of it,
43:12
Speaker 2: rather than it being a little echoy.
43:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely, definitely, definitely.
43:18
Speaker 2: Well, we're definitely looking forward to We're definitely looking forward
43:21
Speaker 2: to seeing you there playing again. Probably You Guys is
43:23
Speaker 2: maybe the most popular album, so I think it's I
43:26
Speaker 2: think the turnout for it is going to be nuts,
43:28
Speaker 2: Like I think you guys are just going to pack
43:29
Speaker 2: the shed and it's just going to be one of
43:31
Speaker 2: the cooler shows.
43:32
Speaker 3: Thanks man, I appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, we're looking forward to.
43:36
Speaker 3: It should be fun. I mean, anytime they ask us
43:38
Speaker 3: to come play, we we definitely want to do it
43:41
Speaker 3: and try to make it happen, you know.
43:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely well along the lines that you know, I know
43:46
Speaker 2: you mentioned at the beginning that you know, you just
43:49
Speaker 2: were in Arkansas rehearsing with the band, and you know,
43:53
Speaker 2: it's been like thirteen years since the last album. Is there, Like,
43:57
Speaker 2: I mean, do you guys when you guys do rehearse,
44:00
Speaker 2: do you guys kind of tink around and see like, well,
44:02
Speaker 2: like is there new stuff that we maybe could work on?
44:04
Speaker 2: Like is any of that happening with with you guys,
44:07
Speaker 2: Like is that something that you guys want to do
44:08
Speaker 2: at some point? Like just kind of curious from like
44:11
Speaker 2: you know, when you guys get back, like you know,
44:12
Speaker 2: kind of do these rehearsals or practice or maybe even
44:15
Speaker 2: when you guys are apart, like maybe there's just times
44:17
Speaker 2: where you're just playing a riff and you're like, oh,
44:19
Speaker 2: that's a living sacrifice rift there, like maybe maybe the
44:22
Speaker 2: juices start flowing. I don't know, like, is that a
44:24
Speaker 2: thing that is happening for you guys?
44:27
Speaker 3: Definitely, Brock, I'll let you answer that.
44:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's definitely some tinkering around sometimes.
44:35
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of there's a lot of good,
44:40
Speaker 3: good ideas that we have to flesh out in the
44:44
Speaker 3: studio and it's just it's just it's just a matter
44:48
Speaker 3: of time and uh availability, things like that.
44:53
Speaker 2: It's sounds like the motivation then, is there for you
44:56
Speaker 2: guys to put up something at something.
44:58
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah one love it, love it.
45:04
Speaker 2: Well, whenever that happens, I can assure you I will gladly,
45:08
Speaker 2: gladly be one of the first people that listens if
45:11
Speaker 2: you would let me, because I'm just I'm really stoked
45:14
Speaker 2: about anything that would be new Living Sacrifice. I mean,
45:16
Speaker 2: that would be a big deal for you guys at
45:17
Speaker 2: this point. I mean even if it wouldn't come out
45:19
Speaker 2: for another year or so, Like, I mean, it would
45:21
Speaker 2: be a big deal for you know, something that come
45:23
Speaker 2: out thirteen fourteen, however many years later after that last album.
45:27
Speaker 4: Has it been that long since?
45:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, Yeah, it's pretty sad. I think we
45:32
Speaker 3: need to hold out for twenty years and just like
45:34
Speaker 3: you know, really really just like make it special.
45:40
Speaker 2: Yeah we got I mean, have you guys been.
45:44
Speaker 3: Anything? What's that that's true?
45:46
Speaker 2: Well, I was just gonna like I know that there
45:48
Speaker 2: was the lost song that came out like eight years
45:51
Speaker 2: ago or whatever, but like in terms of like new stuff,
45:54
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if there's been anything since like
45:58
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, No, whenever.
46:00
Speaker 3: Nothing, Wow, so boom.
46:05
Speaker 2: We'll see So we're we're getting there. We're getting there. Yeah,
46:08
Speaker 2: so yeah, we'll see what happens. Well yeah, well whenever
46:12
Speaker 2: it does. Yeah, I'm a big I'm going to be big.
46:14
Speaker 3: We always we always say we we we we want
46:17
Speaker 3: to do it, and then you know, just gotta gotta
46:22
Speaker 3: make it happen.
46:25
Speaker 2: Well, I would imagine with like where I mean, let's
46:28
Speaker 2: be honest, you'all are getting a little older. I would
46:30
Speaker 2: imagine the amount of output you can do is probably
46:33
Speaker 2: gonna be just as slow as as these old bones move.
46:36
Speaker 2: So it's probably going to just take a little bit
46:38
Speaker 2: longer than normal then, you know, when you were in
46:39
Speaker 2: your twenties.
46:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily it. I think it's
46:44
Speaker 3: just uh, you know, life and you know, desire to
46:50
Speaker 3: you know, you know, just make it happen and be creative,
46:55
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, you know, we don't have to
46:57
Speaker 3: play that fast anymore. We can we can write a
46:59
Speaker 3: slower metal song. Rocky. Rocky's writing riffs all day long.
47:03
Speaker 3: That's his job, and he's definitely put you know, put
47:07
Speaker 3: forth like some great, great demos even specific to us.
47:12
Speaker 3: So it's it's really it's really just about you know,
47:17
Speaker 3: taking the time to find the right situation studio wise
47:21
Speaker 3: and pick a weekend and you know, take the days
47:25
Speaker 3: and all that stuff. It's I mean, it's definitely logistical
47:31
Speaker 3: as as much as it is you know, you know, creative,
47:35
Speaker 3: but also you know, the creativity has to be there,
47:38
Speaker 3: like we're we you know at this point, you know,
47:46
Speaker 3: I mean we we we don't really want to put
47:48
Speaker 3: out in anything that's like subpar at all, and so
47:53
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's it's gotta it's gotta meet like
47:56
Speaker 3: that that threshold that that we've set, you know, overall
48:00
Speaker 3: of years.
48:01
Speaker 2: Totally that that absolutely makes sense. So well, whenever it
48:05
Speaker 2: does happen, I'm here for it. So I'm I'm excited.
48:08
Speaker 2: So I'm sure it's probably still gonna be a little
48:10
Speaker 2: bit of time, but I'm glad to know at least
48:12
Speaker 2: the creative juices are flowing and at least the motivation
48:15
Speaker 2: is there. So that that's pretty that's pretty sick. Are
48:20
Speaker 2: you guys? Are you guys ready for Top five? So, Rocky,
48:23
Speaker 2: you will do Top five most influential albums, and Bruce,
48:26
Speaker 2: you will do top Guilty Pleasure artists, your top five
48:29
Speaker 2: guilty pleasure artists. But Rocky, do you want to go
48:31
Speaker 2: first with your your top five most influential albums?
48:34
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm not sure this would be like in order,
48:37
Speaker 4: but I'll just try to go.
48:40
Speaker 2: Oh, that's really fine.
48:41
Speaker 4: I'll go with the head Justice Fro Metallica, South of Even.
48:45
Speaker 2: Oh what a what an album? I will say that
48:47
Speaker 2: we get a lot of Metallica, but that might be
48:50
Speaker 2: one of the ones that are is lesser named.
48:53
Speaker 4: That's too bad. Boom, what did I do? Pantera, Vulgar
49:03
Speaker 4: Display Power, Live a Sacrifice self titled and oh, of
49:07
Speaker 4: course Primus Sailing this Season?
49:10
Speaker 2: Oh okay, how's that?
49:16
Speaker 3: I never would have guessed you would have there. I mean,
49:26
Speaker 3: that's a great record.
49:28
Speaker 2: Yes, it is sure that you were a metal head
49:32
Speaker 2: through and through like that, that is that is as
49:34
Speaker 2: metal of a list as metal gets.
49:37
Speaker 4: I agree.
49:43
Speaker 2: Do you like do you even listen to anything outside
49:45
Speaker 2: of metal?
49:46
Speaker 3: Oh?
49:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, all kinds of stuff are there?
49:53
Speaker 2: Like, is there an album that has like maybe like
49:56
Speaker 2: really speaks to you that isn't actually a metal album?
49:59
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, is there another like album that like
50:03
Speaker 2: is really you know, important for you. But but isn't metal.
50:08
Speaker 4: Not that I can think of offhand? Well, I'm sure
50:10
Speaker 4: there is.
50:14
Speaker 3: What about what about some of the movie what about
50:18
Speaker 3: some of the movie soundtrack stuff that that you like,
50:20
Speaker 3: like the Stephen Carpenter not Stephen Carpenter, John Carpenter.
50:27
Speaker 4: I love all that stuff.
50:28
Speaker 3: John John Carpenter stuff.
50:30
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's almost.
50:33
Speaker 3: Like and he wrote, he wrote and he wrote that
50:35
Speaker 3: stuff too, didn't he?
50:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, he writes it.
50:38
Speaker 3: What's that? Say it again? Yeah?
50:42
Speaker 4: What's that?
50:46
Speaker 3: Oh? I I just I just you know, I was
50:49
Speaker 3: just it's he's he's it's it's awesome that he writes.
50:55
Speaker 3: And I don't know if he records it, but he
50:57
Speaker 3: writes that stuff. That's pretty pretty amazing.
51:00
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, he's awesome. He's that's that's as far as
51:06
Speaker 4: the movie composition stuff, that's that's that's the top guy
51:13
Speaker 4: for me.
51:14
Speaker 3: Who who's your favorite modern guy like out of like
51:19
Speaker 3: say John Williams or Hans Zimmer or somebody that I'm
51:24
Speaker 3: not familiar.
51:24
Speaker 4: With, somebody you're not familiar with, Well, I don't know.
51:31
Speaker 3: I mean maybe I am familiar with it. I don't know.
51:33
Speaker 3: We don't know, but like like when I think of
51:35
Speaker 3: movies that everybody thinks of John Williams and Hans Zimmer,
51:38
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, because they're like the big ones,
51:41
Speaker 3: the big guys, right, who else?
51:44
Speaker 4: I mean, Danny Elfman, He's still, He's still.
51:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a good one. Mmmm ah yeah yeah, right a, it's.
52:14
Speaker 2: A good list. It's a good list. I there does
52:16
Speaker 2: seem to sometimes be a metal slash like movie soundtrack crossover.
52:22
Speaker 2: I've like noticed like a lot of metal fans happen
52:25
Speaker 2: to also be really into either like classical music or
52:28
Speaker 2: just like movie soundtrack kind of music. So that's You're
52:31
Speaker 2: not the first person that I've you know, that's a
52:34
Speaker 2: big metal head who's also really into that stuff too.
52:39
Speaker 2: So Bruce, you're ready for guilty Pleasures. Let's let's let's
52:42
Speaker 2: get a little list going of of the albums or
52:45
Speaker 2: maybe not necessarily the albums, but the artists that maybe
52:49
Speaker 2: you know, you like to, you like to listen to,
52:51
Speaker 2: but you know, you know, people like Rocky You're gonna
52:53
Speaker 2: make fun of.
52:54
Speaker 3: You for it, Yeah I know, right, yeah, I mean, honestly,
53:03
Speaker 3: the only person that gets made fun of it in
53:05
Speaker 3: our band is Arthur because he deserves it.
53:10
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough.
53:11
Speaker 3: Arthur likes some really stupid music.
53:22
Speaker 2: Exactly, and he's not even here to defend himself, which
53:26
Speaker 2: is great.
53:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's it's perfect. He would just be like
53:30
Speaker 3: he look, Ghoul Moon whatever, dude. He listens to like
53:34
Speaker 3: country music, and probably not even good country music, you know,
53:37
Speaker 3: not like Chris Dapleton or anything like that.
53:39
Speaker 2: He just likes the goofy You should hang out with
53:40
Speaker 2: my parents.
53:41
Speaker 3: He likes the goofy stuff. And then I'm kidding, he
53:47
Speaker 3: has he likes. He likes a lot of good stuff,
53:49
Speaker 3: but he also likes a lot of you know whatever.
53:53
Speaker 3: I you know, I guilty pleasures. I don't even know.
53:56
Speaker 3: I mean, I grew up listening to hair metal and
53:58
Speaker 3: that's like none of that stuff's cool anymore. But like
54:02
Speaker 3: Rat and Docking and oh I kind of I kind
54:06
Speaker 3: of fell off right around the time like Poison came out,
54:09
Speaker 3: but like and that's because that's when I started, you know,
54:13
Speaker 3: definitely moving more heavy, like like into thrash and stuff
54:18
Speaker 3: like that. So right around eighty seven, you know, my
54:22
Speaker 3: my tastes were shifting. Plus plus when that when that
54:27
Speaker 3: Poison album came out. I didn't like the fact that
54:29
Speaker 3: I literally thought they were they were females on the
54:32
Speaker 3: on the cover, and I was like, these guys are
54:35
Speaker 3: trying to trick me, and I didn't like that.
54:38
Speaker 2: So you're telling me and you're not into Brett Michaels.
54:43
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure he's a nice guy in all,
54:44
Speaker 3: but I mean he was he I mean he looked
54:49
Speaker 3: like a really good looking chick on that record and.
54:52
Speaker 2: So yeah, and so he was he was like balding
54:55
Speaker 2: then because he was definitely wearing that uh that headband
54:57
Speaker 2: even then.
54:58
Speaker 3: Oh no he wasn't. No, no, no, no, he wouldn't.
55:00
Speaker 3: He wouldn't.
55:00
Speaker 2: Oh he wasn't.
55:01
Speaker 3: Okay, no, he had it. He had a beautiful head
55:03
Speaker 3: of hair and and and beautiful.
55:06
Speaker 2: Well he definitely lost it pretty quickly out.
55:07
Speaker 3: And beautiful poudy lips.
55:09
Speaker 2: He was.
55:10
Speaker 3: He was a handsome here's a handsome man that looked
55:12
Speaker 3: like a woman. Anyways, I didn't like that. It was
55:16
Speaker 3: no good Uh.
55:20
Speaker 2: Uh is there any like, is there any modern stuff
55:22
Speaker 2: that you're You're like, Okay, I kind of like this,
55:25
Speaker 2: but I probably shouldn't, or like I'm at least gonna
55:28
Speaker 2: get made fun of for it.
55:29
Speaker 3: No, nothing's off, nothing's off bounds or out of bound
55:32
Speaker 3: of Swifty's.
55:35
Speaker 2: You're not a swiftye.
55:37
Speaker 3: No, Like I don't. I really don't gravitate towards pop
55:41
Speaker 3: music at all. Like I just okay, it just doesn't
55:45
Speaker 3: I don't know why. It just doesn't do anything for me,
55:48
Speaker 3: you know, I mean probably you know, some of the
55:53
Speaker 3: you know, the weirder stuff that I listened to is
55:55
Speaker 3: like Radiohead and Sunny Day Real Estate and you know
56:01
Speaker 3: bands like that from like that are more just whatever,
56:04
Speaker 3: experimental or whatever, just not heavy, and I I probably
56:09
Speaker 3: don't listen to I don't listen to a ton of
56:11
Speaker 3: metal these days. Definitely not newer bands. I don't the new,
56:16
Speaker 3: the new. Some of the new stuff like is actually
56:19
Speaker 3: it sounds like it's it's blending pop elements, and like
56:23
Speaker 3: the singers like they sound like they're they're really you know,
56:26
Speaker 3: good singers. They sound almost like a boy band type
56:28
Speaker 3: singing situation, but with heavy guitars and just I mean,
56:32
Speaker 3: it just doesn't do much for me or whatever. I mean,
56:34
Speaker 3: I know there's some killer bands out there. I'm just
56:37
Speaker 3: you know, I I just gravitate towards just older, older,
56:43
Speaker 3: rock stuff, you know, and and and and things like that.
56:49
Speaker 3: I mean, so guilty pleasure. I don't know, I just
56:51
Speaker 3: I don't you know. I would say the goofiest stuff
56:54
Speaker 3: I listened to was like, you know, all the hair metal,
56:58
Speaker 3: you know stuff you know, was singing about chicks and
57:03
Speaker 3: things like that. But you know, I mean I was
57:04
Speaker 3: fourteen at the time. You know.
57:07
Speaker 2: I will say DJ definitely missed his calling being in
57:09
Speaker 2: one of those bands, because that dude looked like he
57:12
Speaker 2: could have been in Poison definitely, so, I mean, but
57:18
Speaker 2: he had he had to get stuck with you uglies.
57:21
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding pretty much.
57:26
Speaker 2: Well anyway, well my Cameron to say, oh here one second,
57:30
Speaker 2: I mean, yep, you could as long as you can
57:32
Speaker 2: hear me. But yeah, what what do you guys want
57:34
Speaker 2: to plug?
57:36
Speaker 1: Uh?
57:37
Speaker 3: Well, we have a we have a vinyl reissue coming
57:39
Speaker 3: out that that Rocky remixed for our third album, and Habit.
57:45
Speaker 3: We got that. We were able to get the tracks
57:47
Speaker 3: dumped from those who were done on digital adapt tapes
57:50
Speaker 3: to pro tools and then sent off to Rocky. Rocky
57:55
Speaker 3: remixed the album. The album's sounded pretty good to begin with,
57:57
Speaker 3: but it sounds even better now with like modern you know,
58:02
Speaker 3: mixing capabilities and everything like that. But that vinyl is
58:08
Speaker 3: going to be coming out very soon. It's like one
58:10
Speaker 3: of the last of our reissues for the first three albums.
58:13
Speaker 3: We were trying to get it done for last year,
58:15
Speaker 3: which would have been the thirty thirty year anniversary of
58:18
Speaker 3: that particular record it came out in nineteen ninety four.
58:22
Speaker 3: And yeah, you know, new stuff coming you know out,
58:26
Speaker 3: you know someday one year.
58:29
Speaker 2: In one year, I mean one year.
58:32
Speaker 3: In the future, could be next year, it could be
58:34
Speaker 3: two years, could be three, four or five years, who knows.
58:38
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, love it well, I'm excited for it. Fornus
58:42
Speaker 2: Beast is going to be a heck of a show,
58:44
Speaker 2: so it'll be fun. Fun to see you guys there.
58:46
Speaker 2: And yeah, just love love this album. Again, there's probably
58:50
Speaker 2: a reason why it might be your most popular. So
58:52
Speaker 2: just thanks so much for chatting more about the hammering
58:55
Speaker 2: process and what we'll see you in a couple of months.
58:57
Speaker 3: Awesome, Thanks Mason, Yeah go, you won't knows